Comments

1. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

   very good analysis of the video. I’m also annoyed by how black men in this video are demonized. Like you have pointed out, it was black men whose lives were in DANGER if they dated white women, while white men could EASILY date any woman of colour (but of course, it’d be difficult for the woman of colour).

   EMMETT TILL was a 14 years old black boy who was lynched after looking at a white woman:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

   Like you, I have major gripes with the portryal of IR relationships. I hate how interracial relationships (and that goes for interracial friendships) are always considered WHITE-BLACK. What about an Indian woman and a Black man, or a Chinese American dude dating a Mexican American woman, or an Indigenous woman dating a Black man, or a mixed Black Latino man dating an Israeli Jewish woman????

   I am SO fucking sick of people making racial fetishes out of all women and guys, especially when it comes to East Asian women. I’m not East Asian, but I get so angry when I hear white guys making offensive, sexist remarks about East Asian women as if they are concubine sex slaves with no feelings, no emotions, no thoughts, and these creepy, SICK dudes set out to get an IR relationship for the sole purpose of satisfying their filthy racial, sexual fetish. I hope and pray that the Asian girlfriend will break their heart, cheat on them, and take their wallets and RUN!!!

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:01 pm ¶

2. Val wrote:

   Jake Nava directed and came up with the concept for this video. He’s English so maybe that’s why this video doesn’t seem realistic from an American standpoint?

   I agree with your assessment of the video. It is especially disappointing coming from Alicia, since I’m a big fan. But I’m not sure if Alicia is who Clive Davis wants us to believe she is.

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:05 pm ¶

3. Celeste wrote:

   I’m sooooo finished with Alicia. This was full of so much fail!! Why didn’t she accurately represent her mixed race heritage with her vieo family? That could have been a slim sliver of non-fail in this disaster. Oh, I feel for the poor actors as well. Imagine having to choose between paying your rent and being the bligity black racists in a music video.

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:12 pm ¶

4. Chanda wrote:

   Thea — I dig. But can we talk about this labeling of people as first generation “mixed”? I’m disappointed that someone writing for racialicious isn’t more careful about this kind of categorizing. 75% of Black Americans have white heritage, some of it voluntary, a lot of it not. While I get what you were trying to say (she has a white parent), it’s not okay by me for you to talk about people like me like that.

   It ignores a troubling and too often hiddenhistory of rape in American/Caribbean history, and in my case, a history of intersections of experiences of oppression: I’m extremely proud of the former Irish indentured servant who ignored English racism and married a freed Black slave in Barbados, thus producing the line that I am descended from. What generation number does that make me?

   All of this, of course, is not to defend Alicia’s poor political choices, which would be annoying no matter her heritage, skin tone, or musical talent. That Paltrow add made me so furious when I first saw it.

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:16 pm ¶

5. Lola wrote:

   #3 was what I first noticed about the video and it drove me nuts

   As an established artist and superstar Alicia has some say about how she is depicted in her music videos. Yet she chose to portray herself as having two Black parents and a Black brother. Wouldn’t casting a White woman to portray her mother have made the video more realistic?

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:21 pm ¶

6. Nikki wrote:

   I like Alicia Keys but I’ll admit that this video is definitely problematic. One thing that stood out to me is that all her family was dark skinned and she being light skin. It looks unrealistic. She could have done a lot more with this video with the whole interracial race theme instead of making it so black and white (pun intended haha). Anyways I think the video fails and I also hate Hate HATE when people say they only date a certain race because of x,y,z reasons. I’m all for interracial relationships but I can’t stand it when I’ll hear a black guy in my school say they only date white girls because black girls are so “loud”, “bossy”, “ghetto” etc. Look at people as individuals. That’s why I tell my friend, who’s white and dates interracially, that if you meet a guy who says those things about black girls then avoid him. Chances are if he has those preconceptions about black women then he’s probably believes white women are “submissive” and “easy”. If I date someone outside my race it’ll be because I’m attracted to them as a person. One love ya”ll!

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:24 pm ¶

7. Eva wrote:

   I’m annoyed that Chad Michael Murray plays her boyfriend in the video, ugh.

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:28 pm ¶

8. Umm....wut wrote:

   @ Lola,

   Perhaps her ideas are as much about race as they are about gender? I seem to recall reading that AK’s dad wasn’t involved in her life growing up. That might provide some context to her depiction of black men as crap and her display of victimhood throughout the video.

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:32 pm ¶

9. Latoya Peterson wrote:

   @Thea -

   Good piece. The video is definitely strange, especially in the context of Keys’ other recent videos which seem married to a particular image of blackness. Especially the “Teenage Love Affair” video, though I was scratching my head at that one as well…she’s in love with a young black revolutionary in the 90s, so she decides to serenade him 1960s style? And then he falls into hip hop and finds himself backing it up on the dance – never mind.

   Alicia Keys keeps me guessing for all the wrong reasons…

   Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:33 pm ¶

10. Celeste wrote:

    @Chanda: I kinda see your point, the term monoracial black grates on me for the same reason. However, there is a difference between the experiences a black mixed race person has and those of someone whose has one white parent and one black parent. I personally don’t mind Thea’s term, though. What term would you use?

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 1:36 pm ¶

11. Observer wrote:

    Wow, some people…
    Look, this is a BW/WM IRR, and most of us in that ir relationship DO get racist remarks thrown at us MAINLY from Black men, most whom are strangers to us.
    I cannot begin to tell you how many times I have walked down the street hand in hand with my white boyfriend and gotten the “sistah come home”, or “i hope yor slave master is treating you good” etc.
    I have actually Never gotten this from white people or non black people.
    Her video is pretty accurate, and this video is how long? She was just narrowing it down to the most common situation when being in an IRR as a Black woman with a White man.
    I guesss according to some of the people commenting here, she should have included the racist white folks so it is “fair”, life isn’t fair and this is the reality for most of us BW in irr.
    I don’t know why it bothers people so much whenever a Black male is shown in a “bad light”, some people are so incredibly PC.
    This happens, and i could relate with alicia in this video, and i know many BW just like me who felt the same way.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 2:20 pm ¶

12. Observer wrote:

    Alicia is playing a black woman in this video, not herself so of course her “family” will be black.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 2:22 pm ¶

13. Starchild72 wrote:

    @Latoya – Was “Teenage Love Affair” sending a social message – or was it more of an homage to Spike Lee’s “School Daze?” That video basically truncated the movie into 2 1/2 minutes.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 2:47 pm ¶

14. Lola wrote:

    The “Teenage Love Affair” video was based off of the movie School Daze. I assume in the video that she is Gamma Ray Jane Toussaint and Derek Luke who portrays her love interest is meant to be the politically conscious character Dap. Which is not what happened in the movie.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_daze

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 2:52 pm ¶

15. Louise wrote:

    I’m not sure whose idea this concept is, but maybe as a child of colour beiing raised by a white mother, there just might be a chance that SOME (please dont erase the word some) black people may have looked at her and her mother with scorn… the past was very different even the 1980’s were not that tolerant.

    However …. FAIL FAIL FAIL.

    it’s so easy to paint poc’s as resistant to a happy and jolly future.

    FAIL, This just plays into ignorance and harms me as a black woman, because let’s all be real, this is a patriachy and women are at the bottom… we lose AGAIN!!!!

    rant over.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 3:02 pm ¶

16. Lola wrote:

    Teenage love affair
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSaSDYYwZNM

    School Daze scene of Gamma Ray’s singing Be alone tonight
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWnKIO6Cb4c&feature=related

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 3:05 pm ¶

17. Torani wrote:

    It is a matter of teams? So team B would have her s show white opposers to interracial marriage and be happy with that. There are situations of every kind with racism from both sides– you can’t historicize everything if her history doesn’t jibe with that.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 3:22 pm ¶

18. Chanda wrote:

    @Celeste: Well, I think as a starting point, we should strongly consider identifying people the way they identify themselves. And if we’re not comfortable doing that, we have to lay out the reasons why.

    Personally, I come from biracial parentage. Counting generation numbers etc gets dangerously close to terms like mulatto, octaroon, etc. And most of the time it’s inaccurate anyway.

    Also, I’m a little surprised at the person who called her family unrealistic. I have a cousin who has two black parents. Her skin is as light as mine, and her hair is blonde, but nappy. Her sister is very dark skinned. It happens. As does adoption. Deal with it!

    This is an additional thought on the whole topic:
    I think I am particularly hesitant about “your (fill in the blank) is white” arguments because when I got thrown out of a party for being a nigger when I was 15, I’m pretty sure turning around and saying, “but my daddy is white” wouldn’t have helped much. Some people with two Black parents manage to escape experiences like this, some people with only one Black parent don’t. A lot of things inform how we relate to Blackness, and I think we have to be careful making arguments about what an individual’s parentage means to them.

    I think sticking to the facts is not only least offensive, but actually most useful. She, like our Black President, has bi/multi-racial parentage. That’s a fact and has nothing to do with anyone’s interpretation of who she is or should be or should say she is.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 3:29 pm ¶

19. Nina wrote:

    @Chanda: I’m with you, and I think the casting director’s choice of some very brown folks as her family was deliberate. It was like they were intentionally creating a visual oversimplification (in black and white, no less) to ignore reality. While we’re still dealing with the ramifications of the one drop rule in 2010, I understand that there are many different experiences that come along with being biracial/multiracial that are dictated not just by “biology” but by circumstance (growing up with both parents, being exposed to both sets of families, etc.) and geography (US, South Africa, Brazil, etc.). I think the video is terrible for many reasons, but I can’t go as far as to call it irresponsible because Alicia Keys is just not that important.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 3:50 pm ¶

20. Kandeezie wrote:

    @Chandra – I agree with Celeste, in that someone in the North American context with one white or non-black parent experiences the world differently than people like me who have mixed race heritage farther down the line. While my blackness/ethnicity was occasionally called into question, it was often for different reasons and masked behind ideals about beauty (’brownin’, anyone?) but in the larger context, I did not experience some of the things those with non-black parents experience (ie. forced to deny one side of your heritage in support of the other).

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:11 pm ¶

21. Isaac Prince wrote:

    in regards to this video I think what the director and Alica were trying to do was recreate an obvious and outspoken reality that black men “despise,” for lack of a better term, interracial dating between white men and black women.

    Given the history of people of color in this country, and how black women have been and continue to be subjugated by white men, I feel the actions incited by this communion was more physically realistic than it is today but nonetheless and accurate assumption of the emotional turmoil and disgust that a black man feels when he see’s an interracial couple, specifically a white man and a black woman. And vice versa

    Although there is evidence that some white people also despise this communion, black people are more outspoken about it due to there relationship with white people in this country. In that sense, it evokes a more potent response from black men as per their counterparts. Racism has been and “is” associated with white. And while white people may have their beliefs about interracial dating they also have the burden of proving, if not to themselves but to the community of people in this county, that they are not racists especially if and when they are truly not.

    Therefore, much of what we’ve seen post 60’s and 70’s, racism has gone into covert ops. Meaning that it would be inappropriate for a white family to openly condemn the communion between a white man and black woman for fear of being labeled racists, out-casted by community members, or exposed for what they truly are. Would you have rather this scene turn into a recreation of Emmit Till except with Alicia Keys being the victim? This may be the reason why only one scene reflected the “disapproval” of their interaction. However, in defense of argument the reaction by the two white people was not reflective of that era but was reflective of their age (if you recall they were elderly. The scene would have had a different feeling had they been replaced with young white males in the 50’s)

    due to the repitious stereotype that there “are no good black men,” used often to justify a black woman’s curiosity with other ethnicities, we all become subjects (in a perfect community, “students”) of the backlash. Simply because we have not copped with the subject of interracial dating Although the phrase “there are no good black men” is used as justification, we must still recognize the actions that caused this belief. And there is more than one reason why this is “believed” to be true.

    The action, in a sense, works against itself. Where the belief that there are “no good black men” competes against the historical subjugation of black women, black men, black couples and black relationships, black men find themselves as the purveyors/protectors of their culture. And as shown in the video, when that culture of pain, love, agony, success, and future is endangered, not only is the actor enraged at what’s happening within his family he feels he is forced to be the protector of his people, “his family” in this sense. Which would warrant an accurate depiction of how a black man would act given historical depiction of black people in this country. I thought it was also quite clever how the director was able to show that time has not quelled how we view interracial relationships. Keep in mind also that this video was obviously shot through a Black Male’s point of view that arguably over shadowed Alicia Key’s involvement and/or responsibility that she is “suppose” to have. However, it is not the meaning of the story.

    The song’s message is about challenging yourself, your views and ideas. the video matches the song very well. If you continue to open your mind to this video via my theory, think about this: Alicia is of mixed background and this video may depict her parent’s struggle as they embarked on their journey. For all we know, this song could be inspired by her and/or Drake’s parents and could also serve as inspiration to those who are currently suffering the same decisions.

    If we allow ourselves to be limited to the singular message shown thru the video we lose the initial message and most important message of all….Love will set us free.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:17 pm ¶

22. Isaac Prince wrote:

    ps: im light skinned black and both of my parents are black

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:18 pm ¶

23. Kenny wrote:

    Just like that film with kerry washington and teh white boyfriend terrorized by the Black cop-Sam Jackson .Dishonest and insulting! I remember when Michael Douglass was sexually harrassed by Demi Moore in a film and I thought” Oh gee really, Hollywood finally deals with this topic and shows it in the less likely version”.The way the Asian guy was portrayed in Karate Kid II was insulting and was of course off set by the White Karate Kid ,who won his girl’s heart.Then there’s “Something New” with the same propoganda, Sheesh!

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:25 pm ¶

24. Anti-Intellect wrote:

    As soon as I laid eyes on this video I knew something about it rubbed me the wrong way. So glad to have articulate thinkers like yourself to point exactly what I found problematic about it. <3

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:46 pm ¶

25. SDOG wrote:

    DIMA you are seriously projecting here regarding your unrelated comments on east Asian women, who have nothing to do with this video. As a bi racial male (Irish and A.A.) this is an interesting video, poorly conceived but we all have to recognize that the message of this video has been neutered to suit the general ed audience that will more than likely buy whatever terrible CD this track is going to be released on.
    I think we are all expecting far too much historical accuracy from a music video here, I’m sure very few if any people involved in this project have advanced degrees and understand the racial nuances in the video, as well as the brutal historiography of interracial couplings in the past.
    It seems that modern Black interpretations of interracial relationships is what is this video is speaking to, but with historical flashbacks that essentially confuse anyone with an understanding of Jim Crow in the 1950’s. Being biracial with a Jewish girlfriend i have experienced plenty of negativity, mostly from black women who see us together however. In the past i would have been merely strung up in the middle of town, lucky for me i was born towards the end of cold war.
    Keys did not direct the video a Brit named Jake Nava did, and I’m sure his understanding US history is lacking. Keys took the role of the black woman in the video to simplify the message, it is not about her literal background.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:50 pm ¶

26. izebe wrote:

    honestly–i haven’t been down with alicia keys for a while now–since she came out even though i really, really liked “fallin” when i first saw the video. & she is immensely talented, for sure. she was getting interviewed back then in a magazine and she was asked about wearing her hair in cornrows and the impetus behind it and i never forgot that she said deciding to braid her hair was largely because she hoped it would help to detract from any sole focus on her looks & by extension her musical art.

    and it always remained in my consciousness, as a girl with natural hair all my life-long days and growing up hearing certain kinds of folks continuously denounce plaits, cornrows and braids–especially on black girls. i get what she was trying to say i think but it still sat with me wrong, the fact that this particular afro-centric hairstyle simmered down her looks. she then went on to rock them so long–i imagine the coolness of that look at the time on a girl like her eventually won over. or maybe the cornrows themsleves won her over. who knows?

    anyways, i’ve relayed this bit on and off to people i know but i cannot remember what magazine it was in–something random, like an old spin or blender or something (not any ‘black’ mag i don’t believe). when i peruse my bro’s old mags collection–i’ll try to find it and have an actual point of reference. needless to say, that soured things slightly for me from then on. my ex says i am just hung up on that. lol. not really but that left an indelible mark for me with her–i always feel adrift trying to decipher her visual images and songs and they often don’t grab me the way they do so many other young women that i know lurve her songs so much & i feel like i’m not getting it. or maybe there IS a block for me. *shrug* i don’t know.

    i watched that video too this week on someone fb’s page. i did like the song–wasn’t crazy about the video but didn’t stop to try to put my finger on some of the reasons why. just vibed with me wrong and once thea lim articulated some of the issues she saw, i started thinking about it more and seeing some of them too.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:54 pm ¶

27. refresh_daemon wrote:

    Part of me wonders if there’s an intended black audience for this video. I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think that a pop artist isn’t necessarily always conscious of the fact that his/her music is consumed by a variety of audiences and continues to tailor the music and related videos to the audience she is aiming for to being with.

    While this might or might not be the case with this video from Keys, I definitely do think that there is a precedent for black pop, R&B and hip-hop artists tending to create their music for black audiences, even though white (and other) audiences might consume more of it in actual sales.

    I’m also not justifying the lopsided viewpoint of the video–just thinking of reasons why it might have been formed that way. If a black audience were the intent, then critique part 1 isn’t necessarily relevant because it’s meant for black people to face their own problems with interracial relationships.

    And it wouldn’t be the first high profile black performer to do so naively. Lauryn Hill and Dave Chapelle both discovered the breadth of their audiences after reportedly making their productions “for black people”.

    But even if this is so, it doesn’t absolve Keys, because she should know better. And even then, it doesn’t address the second and third criticisms.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:57 pm ¶

28. nicepebbles wrote:

    @ Eva: So not just me, then?

    I haven’t seen the video so no comments on that.

    That ad? I’m confused. I don’t see how the makeup and the necklace make her African. I thought Native American when I saw it. Not that that is better.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:59 pm ¶

29. 7thangel wrote:

    IR as a tool to fight racism and the ‘we’ll all become beige’ is basically a nice way of ethnic cleansing.

    get rid of your skin tone, the ’shape’/look of your eyes, your hair texture, your ‘ethnic’ features and do this in a country where you’re far outnumbered by the white majority, then everything will be alright. this is the way to fight racism?

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 4:59 pm ¶

30. Nic wrote:

    I’m going to be honest: this analysis and some of the comments really bother me, not because of what is being said but because of what is being implied in the aftermath. I’m new to this edge of the blogosphere and I know each community based in print has certain quirks that take time to really understand, but seriously, what does it matter if Alicia Keys’ mother is White IRL and not in this one video? Why is that even an issue, when Keys’ has very clearly come to fame with the personal identity of Black (much as Obama has) and not mixed? She’s talking (albeit badly) about interracial relationships, not interracial children and their subsequent lives. Her casting of all-Black family members is keeping completely in line with what she has presented herself to be (Black and nothing more). I’m getting the feeling that what really grates on some nerves here is that IRL Keys’ *isn’t* just Black and there’s an undercurrent of hostility about her somehow “pretending” to be. Which… that kind of makes me sad. I hope I’m wrong about that.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 5:22 pm ¶

31. Nissa wrote:

    I have always liked Keys, even when some of her songs have been a bit pants. And the song is just lovely, I think she sounds stunning….but I can see the issues with the video.
    It wouldn’t have worked for the time jump thing to bring in her mixed-race heritage but I do think the video would have been more powerful if it wasn’t just her relatives that had an issue with the relationship….However, as someone who is not American I got a very different take on it….not that the black men were demonised but more the ‘unthinkable’ aspect was due to her own allegiance to her culture and people and her brother was protecting her from someone perceived as not truly caring for her, using her and concern of them using their white privilege to be with her….

    Disclaimer- I have NO problem with interracial relationships and actually kind of love them since they are still rare in the Pakistani community but I didn’t think her brother’s behaviour was unreasonable and that CMM should have proved himself worthy before they gave their blessing.

    Also, CMM? Yeah, not so impressed with her choice of eye candy tbh!

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 5:50 pm ¶

32. Azizi wrote:

    @ Celeste, regarding which term to use for a person who has one Black birth parent and one non-Black birth parent, why not just say that? (though I understand that people prefer one or two word referents like mixed or mixed racial or biracial). However, those terms aren’t specific enough and many people assume that they only mean a person of Black/White birth.

    Also, remember a person can have a parent or parents of another race than he or she is because of adoption or guardianship or other reasons. So, for example, a person who has two White parents may not have any White ancestry at all-or at least, any White ancestry that was documented.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 5:54 pm ¶

33. Mickey wrote:

    Well, I’ve read the term Multi-generational mixed (MGM) to describe people who are the products of continued mixing for generations (i.e., biracials marrying biracials). Celebrity examples are Zoe Kravitz (product of first-generation mixed (FGM) kid Lenny Kravitz & Lisa Bonet, also a FGM) and Terrence Howard.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 5:57 pm ¶

34. yolanda wrote:

    @eva: yeah, this is my first time watching the video (honestly because the casting choice of cmm seems so…strange) and i’m trying to get past that as well, lol!

    i agree that the video seems way off historically wise, and not just on simple things. it’s pretty common knowledge that in the 50’s no black man would risk death because a white man was dating a black woman. even if he didn’t agree with it, the racial politics of the time wouldn’t allow it. a group of 10 black men ganging up on 1 white guy would certainly end in death for them.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 6:02 pm ¶

35. lechatnoir wrote:

    Chanda

    Unless you are trying to create a box of your own for the next census. I am trying to understand how you came up with this idea that the label monoracial should be discarded because a fringe of the black population acknowledges a distant european lineage.Are you implying that individuals with a dual heritage are blacks ? or that their brand of heritage shouldn’t be acknowledged because most blacks already have some admixture anyway.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 6:11 pm ¶

36. kenda wrote:

    my guess is that alicia keys chose to portray herself as a monoracial black person w/ a dark-skinned family in order to get across a particular message: that black people are hostile to interracial relationships. of course, this message (for reasons thea aptly explains) raises my hackles. it’s simplistic, crude, inaccurate, and worst of all garnering her a good amount of praise.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 6:47 pm ¶

37. Thea Lim wrote:

    @Chanda

    I think quite carefully about how I label people in general, esp when I am writing for Racialicious because we have such a wide readership with v. different experiences, that it is easy to alienate people if you are not careful with language.

    It’s important not to say “oh she’s a mixed black woman” because (as has been articulated) many (all?) African Americans are mixed, so what do we mean when we say mixed and black?

    What was important to me to articulate – in the context of the video – is that Alicia Keys comes from a family with one white parent and one black parent, like the couple in the video. I believe she identifies as black, to speak to your comment about the importance of identifying people as they want to be identified. Again the reason why it was important to me to mention to races of Keys’ parents is because the video is about black/white relationships and sketchy representations of them – as I said in the OP, otherwise it wouldn’t have been an issue to me.

    And as Celeste says, while I have heard the point made many times that folks who don’t have parents of mutually exclusive races and are still of mixed heritage bristle at the idea that there is a difference between those two experiences of mixedness; many first gen mixed folks will argue that there is a difference and that it is important to respect that difference.

    So I can neither say simply that Keys is mixed (as that will irritate Af/Am folks who have two Af/Am parents and consider themselves mixed) or that Keys black/white heritage from the generation directly above her is the same as an Af/Am person with two Af/Am parents, as that will irritate readers who have not experienced that to be true.

    That’s where the terminology first gen comes in – it indicates there are different ways of being mixed. In different settings mixed is narrowly defined to mean
    1. white/POC (thus ignoring any mixed people who have POC/POC parents of different races)
    2. white/black (thus ignoring any mixed people not of that group).
    3. 2 parents of a different race (to the exclusion of anyone who may have parents of the same race but still have mixed heritage)
    Using the term first gen is an attempt to widen the language as much as possible (using short hand).

    Yet language is always a problem, even when we try to be careful. I am open to any suggestions as to how I could describe what I wanted to describe in this video – keeping in mind the emphasis on the different races of Keys’ parents – without using the term first gen.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 6:56 pm ¶

38. synthqueen wrote:

    @Chanda – I agree. As a multiracial person with a white mother, I would never cast my parents as true to that. They’d probably both be brown, like me. I don’t identify as being white at all.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 7:12 pm ¶

39. Kenny wrote:

    Observer Black guys with White women had more than dirty looks and comments to deal with and still do.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 7:52 pm ¶

40. tpear wrote:

    Wow, there are so many messages here. I just want to state, that I agree with “Observer” as a BW who is dating a WM, most of the comments I’ve received are from BM, though, white people in general tend to stare and sometimes ignore us. Though I do not think that A.Keys has to represent all mixed race people because she decided to make this the topic of her video, I can understand the issues people have with it. I, however, do not agree with all of them. I do not think she had to have a white mother–this is a video, she’s acting, she’s NOT A. Keys (just like her lover isn’t Chad Michael Murray). Also, so what if she’s the only light skinned person in the family–why is that unrealistic? As for the portrayal of black men as aggressive, perhaps, but let’s be honest, how many black guys like the idea of black women dating out? Very few, and they will voice their opinions loudly. I don’t think the portrayal is the full and accurate picture of “reality” but as someone else stated, it’s a 3 min video.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 8:50 pm ¶

41. SadeSharde wrote:

    I am black dating a white man and I have to say that most of the racism and judgment I received is from BLACK men and women.

    So in my experience this is a concept worth showing. Almost all “racism” message in the past are about the white people towards the black, so I have no problem with showing the other side as well..

    For the record: two dark skinned parents can give birth to a light skinned kid. Happens all the time.

    And lastly, you can’t expect a 4 minute music video to be everything you want it to be in addressing race issues.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 8:53 pm ¶

42. kenda wrote:

    @ SadeSharde

    My issue isn’t that this video isn’t “everything” I want it to be. It’s that it isn’t anything I would want it to be. I appreciate that it’s is giving voice to the discrimination black women in IR receive from other black people, but it’s not at all realistic to act as if black people are the only folks who have problems black/white relationships, especially seeing how the video spans about 5 decades. For any good points it might have, this music video’s overarching message is bunk.

    As far as skin tone goes, I don’t think there’s anything odd in two dark-skinned people having a light-skinned child (happens in my family quite often). I think Alicia’s family dark skin is significant in that they were cast for maximum effect when contrasting them against A.Key’s beau.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 10:03 pm ¶

43. Chanda wrote:

    Hi Thea, I think my primary beef is that first gen is inaccurate and again immediately recalls terms like octaroon, which I think I’m happy to leave in another era. I honestly don’t see the difference.

    Why not just say “someone with a white parent and a Black parent”? Perhaps there are some things that shouldn’t be converted to shorthand.

    On a side note, a cousin on the Black side of my family just told me that his mom probably won’t approve of his new white Jewish girlfriend. That made this Black Jew quite sad.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 10:24 pm ¶

44. JD wrote:

    1) I really like this song. Had to stop watching the video. Twas ruining it for me.
    2) I don’t understand how some are accepting a “message” or “perspective” on one hand with the IR dating issue and experiential accuracy there, but can dismiss those who question historical accuracy of the social relationships depicted in the 1950s “flashback” on the other hand. Context is important. As a teacher who realizes that a LOT of information young people receive is from this type of media, I appreciate context and historical accuracy. ESPECIALLY when there is social commentary at hand. There is room for that and there’s nothing wrong with accuracy.
    3) Those who brought up the “for Black audiences” direction of this video’s assumed commentary have made me think that perhaps this was part of this most recent climate of “Black women are lonely and educated and need to date outside of their race.” Could just be her encouraging such a notion…

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 10:49 pm ¶

45. Shermel wrote:

    The part where the guy yells, “am I not good enough?” That happens to me whenever I am dating someone of another race. I remember walking in the city with a friend–not even a boyfriend, and three black guys chased us down yelling “What I don’t have that he got?!” and throwing things at us. We didn’t say anything, we just kept walking away. Deep down inside I felt awful because I feel like things are not supposed to be that way. What I do not like is when I was shouldered by a white lady in the supermarket when she saw me grocery shopping and playing around in the store with a white guy friend. She did it purposefully and me and the guy bust out laughing when she walked past. She then turns around and gives us this weird “disapproving elderly woman” stare. So, I’ve gotten equal amounts of hostility from two different races.

    Overall, I actually like the video except for the fact that Alicia Keys must think we’re all stupid and we don’t know that her mother is white and her father is black. There is no way that she could be the only caramel colored person in her family unless her mother had sexual relations with someone else (white person) or she was raped. Then I can see how she would appear different. Or maybe the people in the house were her brother and his friends, not her brother and the rest of the family. Whatever, I don’t want to complain about their attempts to “illustrate” this song.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 10:53 pm ¶

46. moth wrote:

    @Thea – this is possibly my favorite article of yours I’ve read here – the analysis is so sophisticated – especially the part about how ahistorical the video is. I take issue with this comment, however, “And as Celeste says, while I have heard the point made many times that folks who don’t have parents of mutually exclusive races and are still of mixed heritage bristle at the idea that there is a difference between those two experiences of mixedness; many first gen mixed folks will argue that there is a difference and that it is important to respect that difference. ”

    What you call “first gen mixed folks” don’t have a more legit claim to mixedness than “multigen” mixed people (except through the racist pseudo-science of blood quantum.) Nor can you articulate the experiences of “multigen” mixed people – for you to say “first gen” people have a different experience presumes that you know the experience of “multi gen mixed people.” It presumes that “multi gen mixed people’s” claim to mixedness doesn’t necessarily need to be respected. It also presumes that there are standard “first gen” and “multi gen” mixed experiences. I know first gen people who identify and interact with the world in a solely “monocultural” way and “multigen” mixed people who identify with, are identified as, and navigate multiple cultures from multiple perspectives.

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 11:17 pm ¶

47. sealinewuman wrote:

    I’m sorry but I’m just not seeing what a lot of others are seeing in this video. I’m not getting the “black people are more racist than others” impression here, if anything from the first altercation between her brother and CCM, I see the desire of a brother to protect his sister from the questionable motives of a white man of the era, which is understandable for the time period, and much of the video doesn’t centre around that so I’m not getting the uproar, even in the final segment the face of her mother reflects perhaps disappointment and resignation to an unwanted situation but I don’t see hostility, even from the brother in that segment I see confusion and an “are you really going to do this?”

    Also, even if her intent was to show the overt hostility of blacks towards black/white interracial dating, might this not be her personal experience reflected back through her art? I’m not saying that all black people are overtly hostile towards IR, but as a mixed woman who identifies as black I can tell you that the only overtly hostile reactions I’ve ever received were from black people, even when the person I was dating wasn’t white. At the company that I previously worked, the first time my Korean boyfriend came to pick me up the stares I received from my co-workers, the black males in particular were ridiculous, the following day the comments started, and for the 2.5 years that he and I were together it never stopped, everything from commentary on his sexual prowess or lack thereof to ching chong jokes, and yeah my being their supervisor didn’t inhibit. I’m just sayin’

    Posted 25 May 2010 at 11:23 pm ¶

48. Scott Poulson-Bryant wrote:

    Great work, as usual.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 1:29 am ¶

49. Katryn wrote:

    @synthqueen “As a multiracial person with a white mother, I would never cast my parents as true to that. They’d probably both be brown, like me. I don’t identify as being white at all.”

    I’m curious as to why you don’t identify as being white at all. I’ve wondered this about prominent public figures who are identified in the media as being black, but have a non-black parent (e.g., President Obama, Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Derek Jeter, etc.). Do they self-identify as only black, or is it just a matter of expediency? (These are rhetorical questions, obviously — I don’t expect you to speak for all multiracial people!)

    I’m not trying to challenge your experience, I’m just honestly curious, because as a white woman with a non-white partner, it saddens me to think that my potential children would reject (or at least see no value in) my family history, cultural traditions, etc., that would make up half of their heritage, and that my contribution to the family was seen as less important than their father’s.

    How much of one’s racial identity do you think comes from society vs. the individual family? For example, I have a friend who is Dominican and Japanese who identifies much more with Japanese culture, even though he was raised in the DR. I suspect that this has more to do with his relationship with each of his parents than with how he is treated by strangers, since he looks neither typically Dominican nor Japanese and is seen as a ‘foreigner’ in both countries, while his relationship with his Dominican parent/extended family is much more problematic than with his Japanese relatives.

    Obviously, everyone has different reasons for identifying in one way or another, which is why I’m curious about yours (and anyone else who cares to comment).

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 5:03 am ¶

50. Aiyo wrote:

    I haven’t watched the video but after reading this I don’t think I will. Alicia need to read a book if not go on wikipedia or something to educate herself.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:04 am ¶

51. lunanoire wrote:

    Considering all the first-person narratives about 3rd generation (insert non-English speaking nation) people in the US who have difficulty communicating with their grandparents in their grandparents’ native language, I believe that the generation(s) of mixing in a person’s heritage is one factor of many in their lived experience.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:55 am ¶

52. ladydai wrote:

    Oh, you guys need to stop. There is a tendency to dismiss the difference between how BW/WM relationships are received versus BM/WM.

    So much that recent deliberate hate crimes committed against BW/WM have been dismissed. It’s not only about the stares, and rude comments. Yes both communities have guilty members. However, black people tend to be a lot more vocal and confrontational. Sorry, but it’s true.

    @ DIMAYes, there may be a history of victims of white racial hatred, such as Emitt Till. However, perhaps you should start with the recent victims like; Sgt. Jan Pawel Pietrzak and his wife, Quiana,http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/11/12/2008-11-12_mother_of_murdered_marine_jan_pawel_piet.html

    Brian Milligan and Nicole Fletcher, http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/07/new.york.beating/index.html

    Katherine and Jason Shuffield http://www.indy.com/posts/2-indiana-legislators-want-longer-sentence-for-killing-fetus

    Mod Note – Your comment almost got deleted, because while you make good points, this line – However, black people tend to be a lot more vocal and confrontational. Sorry, but it’s true. – is unacceptable. Blanket generalizations about entire groups of people will not be tolerated, and we have been deleting comments in this vein. – LDP

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 8:31 am ¶

53. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Mod Note

    We’ve been deleting a whole lot of comments on this thread, from people who should know better.

    1. Generalizations are not ok. If you think Keys may be working from her personal frame of reference, or if you have a specific frame of reference that confirms a certain perception, that’s fine. But to conclude all black people, everywhere, are more hostile to interracial relationships between BW/WM – that’s a stretch.

    2. The video needs to be considered, both in the context of how Keys’ intended AND the dominant messaging in our society, as well as a historical framework. Thea did a good job at teasing out those threads. If you disagree with the analysis, fine – but engage with the whole framework, not just what is on screen.

    3. Racialicious analyzes music videos alongside all types of other media. Phrases like “well, it was only 4 mins” don’t mean anything – a music video director has a lot of options with how they spend their time, and since they thought through this concept and this story, it is open for critique. Keys and her team chose to make a statement – that statement is open for interpretation.

    4. Please respect the experiences of people who are mixed race and not African American. I’m not sure why there is a disagreement about who is mixed race and who is not, but I’m not seeing how that is relevant to Thea’s point. I’m also a little frustrated as many of our mixed race readers often feel erased in these types of conversations when people start arguing “Well, all of us are mixed!” Once again, race is about social constructions and the experience of someone who has parents who fall within two different categorizations (whatever those categorizations may be) will be different than someone who has a varied ancestry. We may all be mixed with something or other, but please respect the experiences of those who find that existing narratives about race don’t encompass their experiences. You may not intend to perpetuate this dynamic, but once again, that is what is happening.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 9:08 am ¶

54. n wrote:

    I made a similar comment on Sociological Images to the one I will make now.
    I always include the intended audience when I analyze a message.
    There are times when BW are condemned or criticized for messages that seem to paint black men or black people as the ONLY perpetrators of some particular crime. I have been known to direct my messages to certain groups, and it is not because I want to state or imply that this group is the only group that engages in this. It is because this is the only group whose behavior matters to me, whose love and approval I care about, whose condemnation and rejection hurts me. I think I’ve said it before- I wouldn’t cry and complain because random strangers didn’t let me in their homes or invite me to their parties, I would if my own family did the same. I expect better of them and am invested in them, they matter enough for me to make an effort. Others? Not really a major concern.

    So sometimes the message is not “Only black people do this” but “When black people do this it hurts me,please y’all don’t do it”.

    Like when kids say “well so and so wears his pants around his ankles and listens to music too loud, Im not the only one why are you picking on me” and the parent says “Im not so and so’s mother and I don’t really care about him or what he does, I care about you”.

    If AK is making a video and she has a black audience in mind, I don’t really have a problem with her addressing issues that hurt her without her also addressing the others who do it. Perhaps its not so much a condemnation as it is a plea to her own, to ease up a little.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 9:50 am ¶

55. Eva wrote:

    I’ve been reading the comments and all points are interesting. However maybe this video is like this because of a personal experience of maybe the director, or someone they knew. Here’s an example: Once I dated a white man and whenever we were out, for instance on the subway, it was black people who stared and made comments, while white people didn’t.

    Now that was only my experience. It shouldn’t be taken in a historical context. But let’s say the director was a friend of mine, I told him that story and he used it in the video.

    What I’m saying is that a lot of things that are in videos and movies are based on personal experiences of the director or friends of the director without any thought on historical context.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 10:12 am ¶

56. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Observer & Sade Sharde
    I will open by saying that this is not to discount the experiences that you have had. But your experiences are anecdotal. Which is okay until you try to treat them like data.

    Where do you live? What are the demographics of most of the spaces that you frequent? How old are you? How would you describe your physical presentation and your partner’s physical presentation (clothing, hair cut/style, dress-type)? These are a few of the dozens of things that factor into what we hear strangers say to us (vs. what they may be saying about us once we’ve passed by).

    In other words, even if you are in fact only getting “racism”(?) and “judgment”(?) from black people, it doesn’t mean that black people are the only ones with “racism”and “judgment” on their minds. But I guess it does mean they’re the ones that should be shown screaming and yelling and fist-shaking throughout the ages.

    NB: I’m the BW component of a BW/WW relationship and I’ve never heard “boo” from another black person about it. And we’ve held hands all over these United States. In fact, we’ve had people slow their cars to tell us how beautiful and happy we look together (twice!) and get “aws” from passersby of all shades all of the time. I have a few friends who’ve never dealt with Black People (Usually Dudes) Voicing Disapproval) re: their relationships with WM either. Should I assume this is the real “common”?

    @ Thea Lim
    “Recent” seems slightly more on point (though not as pithy, let’s be honest) and lacks the Columbus-Discovers-Multi-Racialness feel of “first gen.” But I typically stick to citing the self-ID of parents (which won’t be much of an out for very long).

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 10:24 am ¶

57. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ moth

    Glad you liked the OP.

    I have to say I am frustrated by the way you extrapolated from my comment to Chanda that I was saying recent/first gen/child of parents who fall into 2 diff. categorisations have a more legit claim to mixedness. I do not see that anywhere in my comment. I was simply saying that it is a different experience – which from your response, is essentially what you are saying; ie its complex, let’s not generalise.

    What I am getting in a few comments in this thread (not just from moth) is that it is not okay for people with parents of 2 diff categorisations to say that they have a separate experience from people with parents with same/similar ethnocultural identities.

    In the past I believe that I was unaware (or even ignorant) of why people of varied ancestry (especially, in the context of this blog and its readership, African Americans) might claim the term “mixed,” and feel hurt, angry or disappointed when conversations of mixedness did not make the attempt to recognise that being multigenerational mixed is mixed too.

    I was ignorant of that, but as soon as someone pointed it out to me (thanks to Racialicious), I had absolutely no problem widening what I mean when I say “mixed.” Why would I?

    I have never said that multigen mixed people are not mixed. Neither have I said (ever! in this post or any other) that first gen mixed people are “more mixed” than anyone else. (That doesn’t even make sense.) Rather I have tried to indicate that I believe both experiences are mixed, and that many first gen mixed people want to have their experience recognised as different from multigen mixed people.

    I cannot understand why it should be wrong for Celeste or I or anyone else on this thread to suggest that, as Latoya puts it:

    “race is about social constructions and the experience of someone who has parents who fall within two different categorizations (whatever those categorizations may be) will be different than someone who has a varied ancestry.”

    Believe me when I say I am trying here, but I cannot understand why it should be of offense for me to say, as someone with a white parent and an East Asian parent, that I believe my experience to be different from say someone of Straits Born Chinese descent (multigenerational Chinese mixed). Or that I perceive there to be certain similarities between my experience and the experience of my friend who has a black parent and a white parent, that are not present when I look at my experience and the experience of my friend whose parents are both Jamaican. Do I continue to find similarities and feel solidarity with both my Jamaican friend as well as my black/white friend? Of course! That’s why I write for Racialicious.

    I find it frustrating, hurtful and silencing when I am told – after all the things I have experienced in my life as someone with parents of separate ethnocultural and national groups, many of them deeply saddening and alienating – that I am mixed just as a multigenerational person is mixed.

    I have absolutely no problem with multigen people saying they are mixed: in fact that revelation makes me feel happy and excited to think about ways in which multigen mixed people and non-multigen mixed people might find commonalities.

    But why do we have to say our experiences are the same?

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 11:13 am ¶

58. pinksghetti wrote:

    I like Alicia Keyes because she is one of the last singers who isn’t more concerned with an image than her actual music. Having said that I found that odd too in her music video that she was a) supposed to be a BW without being mixed b) that she was in an IRR instead of having a BM in an IRR, since it is more likely and more problematic, especially in the 50’s-70’s c) that the BM were the racists ones. But I understand why they may have decided on this was to not alienate WP by potraying them as the racists in the video.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 11:24 am ¶

59. ladydai wrote:

    @Latoya, well I will apologize for my generalization and instead say, that in my experience, black people were more confrontational and vocal.

    @AD Nix, are you saying that BW/WM who have had these experiences with black people, brought them on themselves because of the way they were dressed, physical compatibility issues, appearance?

    Because you are in a BW/WW doesn’t qualify as evidence that your reality holds more validity. The whole social dynamic is different for you.

    Black Women often battle negative connotations of being matriarchal, domineering and emasculating to black men. Those are stereotypes held by a lot of people. White men have the negative connotations of societal power, the history of being slave masters, and oppression of black men.

    That said, if you have people living in environments where there is a possibility of living on a consistent diet of racism, nationalist propaganda, and general frustration, why wouldn’t it be a problem for a White male/Black Female couple?

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 12:37 pm ¶

60. Chanda wrote:

    I am generally with you Thea on your sense that these experiences are different. People from families where one parent is of a different background than the other certainly experience mixedness in a different way than people who have that mixedness a few generations back. I absolutely agree that it’s important to recognize the differing experiences of privilege and lack thereof etc. I appreciate, very much, your effort to be clear on this point out of respect for people in both groups. Too often people are concerned for the one and not the other.

    That said, your last comment made me think that we have to be careful in recognizing that that’s going to be different for people of say African descent and people of Chinese descent, because the histories and narratives of how mixing happened and was introduced is quite different.

    That might be why “first gen” sounds different to my ear than yours. The discussion about Black-white mixing in the US in particular, and the nomenclature that has been used over the centuries, does not pair well with the phrase “first gen” in my mind. From my (limited, I am assuming) understanding of how these things come into play for Chinese-white families, the vocabulary isn’t there. All this a longwinded way to say, the first thing that came to mind for me was “octaroon” and that might not be the case for someone who doesn’t have the same labeling history attached to their racial background.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 12:41 pm ¶

61. A.D. Nix wrote:

    Blast. I wrote BW/WW when I meant BW/WM.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 12:43 pm ¶

62. bdsista wrote:

    I agree with the original analysis, that it really does not show an accurate historical depiction of who would be aggressive about the IR relationship, UNLESS, the WM is a known straight up racist which you can’t tell in the video and there is history with her family, which you also can’t tell in the video.
    So, video for me also a fail.

    Now for the unrelated shallow comment. I really don’t like her bra showing under her dress and really felt that it took away from her image in the video. Why do I have to see people’s underwear rather than their beautiful clothes?

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 1:01 pm ¶

63. Urban Suburbinite wrote:

    “It seems that modern Black interpretations of interracial relationships is what is this video is speaking to, but with historical flashbacks that essentially confuse anyone with an understanding of Jim Crow in the 1950’s.”

    I think the directors thinking didn’t go beyond, “How hot would it be to see Alicia sport different looks from different eras!” In doing so, they both showed a serious lack of judgement, and ignorance in how they portrayed the 1950’s through 70’s scenes. Had they kept the entire video in the present it would be less problematic.

    “But your experiences are anecdotal. Which is okay until you try to treat them like data.

    Where do you live? What are the demographics of most of the spaces that you frequent? How old are you? How would you describe your physical presentation and your partner’s physical presentation (clothing, hair cut/style, dress-type)? These are a few of the dozens of things that factor into what we hear strangers say to us (vs. what they may be saying about us once we’ve passed by).”

    These are very valid points. When I was a sophomore in college in Miami, my roommate and friend who was Haitian was dating a very anglo looking Cuban guy. To people who didn’t know them they looked like a BW/WM couple. I remember going to the dining hall with her and hearing her being heckled daily by black male students. The things they said ranged from comical to down right mean-spirited.

    My husband is “white”*, and I am MGM**. When we lived in Connecticut, we got looks, and the question, “Are you together?” I received rude comments, but never in front of my husband. I think it is because he is over 6′ tall and 225+ lbs, and has phenotypically Italian/Sicilian*** looks. Also, I look less phenotypically black than my college friend does, which I think makes some black people not immediately lay claim to me because they may think I am solely Latina****.

    Since we moved to central Florida, 3 years ago we have not experienced any of that at all. So I definitely think some of this is regional, and a lot has to do with other factors like demographics and physical representation.

    * Others classify him as “white”, but he does not self-identify as such. His mother is Irish. His father is Sicilian. His father’s family acknowledges their partial African ancestry, cus’ as he says, “Hannibal crossed the Alps!”

    ** I am Multi-Generationally Mixed (mixed people marrying other mixed people), Jamaican/Irish/Seminole/Blackfoot/Mexican etc. Most strangers just assume I’m Puerto Rican, Brazilian or Black/White biracial. (Sometimes they assume I don’t speak english, but that another story for another day, LOL.)

    ***There is still a stereotype of Italian/Sicilian people being “connected to the mob”, or at the very least more likely to break your jaw.

    ****I know there are Black Latinas/White Latinas. I’m just using that term for easy shorthand here for the most stereotypical physical representation of “Latina” .

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 2:02 pm ¶

64. April wrote:

    My take on this is that this video fails because of the gross historical distortions. It’s not like anti-miscegenation laws were written by black folks. So to portray hostility toward interracial relationships as originating with or solely coming from black people is just plain wrong.

    And sorry, I’m not buying the argument that this was intended solely for a black audience, and hence why the focus was on black hostility. Since when were Alicia Keys’ videos played exclusively on BET? This plays right into the twisted argument (used by racists) that black people are the “real” racists in our society.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 2:24 pm ¶

65. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Ladydai
    See above. Typo.
    And no, not at all. There is no way to “bring this on” oneself. That’s . . . ridiculous.

    My point is that you can’t make-believe that even if you are hearing more from black people, it’s because they’re the only ones with something to say. Or that a BW/WM couple habitually walking down a street holding hands in Army uniforms in Darien, CT is necessarily going to have the same verbal reception as a BW/WM couple habitually walking down the street in jeans and t-shirts in Baldwin Hills in Los Angeles. That is why social scientists contextualize their research and meddle with pesky things like “variables.”

    NO ONE’S reality holds more validity is my point. NO ONE’S experience (sans research and even that needs a critical eye) can make Black People, As A Rule ,Hate It More And Say So the truth. So it’s wise to bring more than that to the table when making these kinds of generalizations.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 2:37 pm ¶

66. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    Interesting view came in from elsewhere: Is Alicia’s video intentionally ahistorical?

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 2:39 pm ¶

67. SDOG wrote:

    Thea Lim, you killed it there, your comments frame exactly how i feel about being mixed myself (Irish Am and Black Am). growing up having parents in two SEPARATE racial groups myself i find your analysis very poignant.
    Black Americans largely have a variety of different mixed blood, regardless they are still considered Black Americans in the eyes of the law. A fully blooded Black American’s life experience IS NOT THE SAME as mine or any other person with parents of two different colors.
    It is not to say that my claims of “mixed-ness” is more legitimate than a Black person with a white ancestor two or three or more generations ago. its just our experiences are so different, I find comments like Moth’s seeking to cheapen my life experiences insulting.

    Getting as white as a sheet in the winter time and having green eyes (just to name a few physical traits of mine) speak to the physical differences between my own life experience at that of a full blooded Black American.

    culturally speaking, I can go on about this as well. Growing up, i often experienced black kids who told me that i was not black but “yellow” and my “male-ness” was made to be considered less than the full blooded black kids , among the other abusive things i experienced. Black girls NEVER gave me the time of day. I will never forget the time i was told “i was too white” for a girl. I would like to remind people i am not generalizing, just recounting my own life experiences as a ” first gen mixed person”.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 2:47 pm ¶

68. Lady Dani wrote:

    I just want to say first and foremost I agree with Thea Lim’s article on why this video rubbed me the wrong way. This video had a “Black people are racist too” tinge to it that irks me because it totally trivializes the effects of White privilege and will further allow ignorance of how race is socially constructed and institutionalized. Although Black people can be prejudice like anyone else but it trivilizes the power of racism on socio political level.

    As far as Alicia Keys and her identity, I think mono racial and bi-racial/mulit-racial people need to stop playing tug-a-war on directly mixed race individuals identity. Alicia Keys has a right to identify herself as Black or bi-racial. She identifies as Black and she has the right too. I believe she does it for social and cultural reasons. This reminds me of when Paula Patton gave her reasons of identifying as Black it pissed alot of people and for what? That’s her right. Same when Tiger Woods chooses to identify as Caublasian. He has the right.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 4:14 pm ¶

69. Fatima wrote:

    They do get looks in the grocery store from white people. The cashier looks incredibly uncomfortable and nervous that they are flirting in her store. You write this off, but it’s definitely a memorable image.
    As for the “let’s hump our way to racial tolerance,” that’s just being silly. Where does she advocate making one giant racism-free mix of people? She’s in love with a white man. Why does that need to be examined this way? Could it be that there are no motivations behind a IR than just pure love? I just get sad when artists actually try to convey something more meaningful than most artists and they get put through the ringer for it.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 4:17 pm ¶

70. n wrote:

    @april

    “And sorry, I’m not buying the argument that this was intended solely for a black audience, and hence why the focus was on black hostility. Since when were Alicia Keys’ videos played exclusively on BET? ”

    A lot of artists speak to a specific audience even though though they are aware that people beyond that audience will hear it too. I don’t know her intentions, and maybe that isn’t her aim,but that she may be addressing or only considering “her community” is a legitimate possibility.

    How many hip-hop artists, for example, make (or maybe MADE) music that is clearly targeting African Americans. Sure they know other people listen to it, but that doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t addressing those others.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 4:27 pm ¶

71. Mickey wrote:

    Maybe we should have that “Racial Draft” that Dave Chappelle modeled his skit on. Just kidding.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 4:43 pm ¶

72. n wrote:

    Let me add one more thing. I live in an area that has a black majority. 99% black schools,99% black neighborhoods that have 90% black employees. I’ve actually gone a few years without seeing or speaking to a white person just because its THAT segregated.

    MANY black people in segregated areas MAY experience negativity from only black people simply because they live in a black world.

    On a personal level it is entirely possible that the video is reflective of a particular person’s experiences. I get the fuss about racism and portrayals, but at the same time some of the fuss about things that are “wrong” or “unfair” or “unrealistic” fail to take into consideration the wide variety in backgrounds and experience.

    A few of us here are saying- like it or not, this is an accurate portrayal of our world.

    Whose history is an artist responsible for? Hers? The country’s? The world’s?

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 4:45 pm ¶

73. Urban Suburbinite wrote:

    “culturally speaking, I can go on about this as well. Growing up, i often experienced black kids who told me that i was not black but “yellow” and my “male-ness” was made to be considered less than the full blooded black kids , among the other abusive things i experienced. Black girls NEVER gave me the time of day. I will never forget the time i was told “i was too white” for a girl. I would like to remind people i am not generalizing, just recounting my own life experiences as a ” first gen mixed person”

    @ SDOG
    As a MGM, I have had the EXACT same experiences (save for dating, because some black men are still color-struck and being lighter as a woman gets you more attention) , because of my appearance. I could tell you stories about getting jumped on the school bus by black girls, who assumed that I was “1/2 white or something”. I didn’t make my 1st black friend until 11th grade.

    My brother who has red hair, blue eyes, and fair skin went through HELL at school growing up because of it. Black girls wouldn’t date him either. None of these people asked what gen mixed we were. So I fail to see how your experience as “1st gen mixed” differs from 2nd or 3rd gen in that regard.

    I DO see how it would differ within your home having one white parent as far as cultural upbringing.

    That being said, outside of cultural upbringing and the home it doesn’t matter what gen mixed a person is, because most people interact with you based on appearance. A person who has one white parent but looks black would not have the same experiences as you or I. Both of my sisters look black (brown skin, brown eyes, dark textured hair), and they did/ and do not have the same problems in school my brother and I had.

    I do not have one white parent, but since I “look” like I do some people assume and interact with me as such.

    So it’s a little more nuanced .

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 4:54 pm ¶

74. Observer wrote:

    @A.D. Nix, why does it matter how one is dressed etc? I mainly get this when i am in the city, or where there are a majority of black people, obviously.
    I never generalized, I simply said that i usually get rude stares and racist remarks thrown at me by black males.
    Black people can be racist too and i am tired of black women being dismissed whenever they criticize black males for their sexist/racist behaviour.
    I’m sick of liberal hipsters babying black males and ‘protecting’ them, most whom aren’t even black and have no clue about the black experience or the plight of black women, so long as the ‘victim’ (in their eyes) is a black male then that’s all that matters, but i digress.
    Yet again i feel like black women are being silenced, it doesn’t matter how much we shout that we (who are in an IRR) mainly get attacked by black males, we aren’t supposed to do that because in this world black male = victim, and a “victim” can do no wrong, especially not to the members of his ‘group’.
    No one said that white people can’t be racist.
    I applaud Alicia Keys for showing that not only white people can be racist in her video.
    Most people have no idea about the sexism and racism in the black community, and if they by any chance do, they don’t take it seriously.

    **even though i feel ridiculous doing this…of course i am NOT talking about ALL black men. Only those who are openly hostile and racist. Just thought i’d clarify**

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:02 pm ¶

75. bernie black wrote:

    I participated in a thread about the video on facebook recently after a posting of it was published to provoke “discussion” about it. I pointed out many of the same issues as you did in your article. I took issue with the women involved in the thread who saw the video as “hot”. It is a relief to see that my sistas here can see the problem with the video, and are not all caught up in the “hot white boy” thing. I’m not hatin on IRs, I just wanted to point out the problems with the presentation of the video. Thank you for this article, a job well done. By the way I don’t see anything wrong with the “2nd generation mixed” comment. It simply clarifies the degree of racial mix. I think we can sometimes be over sensitive about these things.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:08 pm ¶

76. bernie black wrote:

    @Fatima She does mention the cashier. maybe you should re read the article. Maybe then you might fully understand her points.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:18 pm ¶

77. TierListE wrote:

    I am also curious about the demographics and statistics on other BW/WM couples, because me (BW) and my boyfriend (WM) get no flak from any PoC (mainly black, followed by decent portion hispanic [that mainly composed of Mexican descent but not 100%], and less of Asian- S and E, and other), of either gender.

    Honestly, the like three times we were stopped and complimented, they were by black men (maybe they ran by a thread like this, haha). White people also keep their comments to themselves. Women, mostly but not always white, are more likely to do the near rude to completely rude staring thing, though intentions behind why are of course unclear.

    The pinnacle of our “Wow, like no black people are hung up about us” moment was when we went to see play of my friend in a African American literary festival. Not a peep or crazy eye. Any comments were keep firmly out of our earshot. (My poor bf did have a “Oh, a White Male, let’s hear his opinion!” moment XD. He was near as to functionally the only white guy there).

    I am on the darker side of brown with natural kinky hair, and his is pale, blond hair, blue eyed (a tad on the prototypical side of an “German” look), so we can’t be confused as anything else. We are in our 20s, and live in urban NC. We’re . . .*cough* a bit on the cuddly side, so yeah, it’d be hard to *not* know we’re a couple.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:31 pm ¶

78. TierListE wrote:

    *More specifically, I’m in my early-mid 20s and he in his late 20s.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:36 pm ¶

79. moth wrote:

    @Thea – I’m not trying to derail, but since you ended your comment with a question I’m assuming you wanted a response..

    1. I agree all experiences are different – I also think they are different on individual levels. However, do you see how IDing someone as first gen mixed can silence their parent who may not consider their child first gen if they consider themselves mixed? What is wrong with simply saying a person with a black and a white parent or an Asian and a white parent?

    This quote, “I find it frustrating, hurtful and silencing when I am told – after all the things I have experienced in my life as someone with parents of separate ethnocultural and national groups, many of them deeply saddening and alienating – that I am mixed just as a multigenerational person is mixed. ” I get this. But MGMs find it frustrating, hurtful and silencing when they are told (and I’m not saying you’re saying this) – after all the things they have experienced in their lives that they’re just as monoracial as people who are actually monoracial, that their mixedness is too remote to be relevant, or that to all intents and purposes they are monoracial.

    @SDOG

    1. I am not seeking to cheapen anyone’s life experience – what in my quote makes you think that’s my motivation?

    2. Do you see how IDing people as “full blooded black” when they disagree silences them?

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 6:58 pm ¶

80. PEANUT wrote:

    she took this idea from Erykah Badu’s video with Andre 3000 “On and On” i believe, correct me if im wrong.

    Alicia is getting on my nerves also.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 7:51 pm ¶

81. Shelby wrote:

    @n; “Whose history is an artist responsible for? Hers? The country’s? The world’s?”

    Thank you so much for that comment. I’ve been following this thread thinking and feeling the same things Thea wrote about. But I think you’re right to ask that question of who Keys is “responsible” for. It reminded me that I STRONGLY dislike the “sacrifice yourself for US!” narrative that gets pushed on Black women. So yeah, if this is Alicia Keys’ experience and this is how she wants to express herself? Then that’s just beautiful.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 9:05 pm ¶

82. sealinewuman wrote:

    @PEANUT

    I think the Erykah Badu song and video that you were thinking of is Next Lifetime, and yeah I thought the same thing when I saw it as well.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 10:04 pm ¶

83. socgrad wrote:

    I really liked Thea’s comment earlier about the distinction for her between first generation mixed and multi-generation mixed being based on difference, but not legitimacy. I think that this is probably at the heart of why there is such contention over creating separate spaces for FGM and MGM. We have to remember that our self-identification is not created or perpetuated in a vacuum. We can talk about difference without hierarchy, but the reality of race in America doesn’t abide difference without hierarchy (apologies in advance for an American centric perspective). I think where many FGM people say “our experiences are different from MGM” and mean simply that, many MGM people hear “our experiences are more legitimate, more authentic”. This hearing of difference with hierarchy would be wrong with respect to the FGM speaker’s intentions but not unfounded with respect to the broader society’s understanding of “mixedness”, considering America’s history (arguably ongoing) of conferring social privilege and status on mixed race people relative to POC. This is all the more complicated by the fact that the idea of MGM (particularly as it applies to black people) is new and still, frankly, fighting for its own legitimacy. Hopefully, we will get to a point where both FGM and MGM are consdiered different, but equally legitimate experiences of “mixedness”, real difference without hierarchy.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 11:00 pm ¶

84. Katryn wrote:

    Sorry, this is going to be long…

    1) “I am also curious about the demographics and statistics on other BW/WM couples…”

    Well, my 3 black female friends who are married to or dating white guys have all experienced negative comments from black guys here in NYC. Interestingly, the incidents they’ve recounted all happened in black-majority neighborhoods, so I wonder if the negative attention has as much to do with bringing an outsider into a ’safe space’ as with the ’stealing our women’ thing.

    2) I wonder too if interracial relationships (and racial conflict in general) seem to be a bigger issue between men because they are allowed/expected to be more vocal. It seems to be much less common for women of any stripe to be openly hostile to each other or to men, or to experience hostility from men of other backgrounds. Of course, that doesn’t mean the same feelings aren’t going on in women’s heads or discussed among themselves — they just aren’t expressed publicly in the same way.

    3) From a white perspective, I was much more struck/disturbed by the racism expressed by the white people in the video than the behavior of the black men, probably because I’m much more sensitized to it. I certainly wasn’t thinking, “Oh, poor white guy being attacked by scary black guys.” (But, again, this may be because as a woman I identified with Alicia Keys’ character more than ANY of the men.)

    While some white people might focus on the negative portrayal of black men being discussed here, I honestly think that most wouldn’t even notice. Part of white privilege is the ability to be completely unaware of these kinds of issues. Point being, I suspect that the question of the video’s intended audience might be largely irrelevant.

    Posted 26 May 2010 at 11:49 pm ¶

85. foshothoyo wrote:

    I agree that this video was problematic, or at least thematically incomplete in terms of mixed race unions and relationships, however, I am more disappointed that black America prioritizes moral and cultural messages from “artists” who are products of entertainment industries over the moral and cultural issues considered by black/progressive authors, academics, historians, and activists. I long for the day when education has more power over our minds than entertainment.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 12:02 am ¶

86. moth wrote:

    Socgrad says, “I really liked Thea’s comment earlier about the distinction for her between first generation mixed and multi-generation mixed being based on difference, but not legitimacy. ” Tied to this, I think, must be the realization that mixed race experiences, be they first gen or multi gen, are different on an individual, rather than a generational, level. Individuals in both groups will experience things that outsiders might feel are more representative of the other mixed race group. I think we need to fight against the essentializing of the multi gen experience. I think this is what Urban Suburbanite was getting at.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 12:25 am ¶

87. Eric Daniels wrote:

    Since I have been throw off many times for making negative comments in the past I will say this, having seen the video I will say that practicing in “revisionist history” is a very dangerous exercise that has nothing but negative effects on society as well as the person making the statement. Keys and her director may have wanted to strike a blow and encourage Black Women to consider dating across racial line but her delivery was flat.

    Keys has been in trouble before trying to make political/social statements and falling flat on her face intellectually. Her and her director can’t compare modern life of 2010 dating of BW/WM relationships to a time if a Black Man then as well as now dating across racial lines he could be lynched or castrated. Alicia fails in this video because it is totally unrealistic to the real world statistics of this issue and creates a false and very dangerous illusion.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 6:29 am ¶

88. Chanda wrote:

    RE: Bernie Black’s comment

    I’m impressed that someone suggesting a commenter raising a legitimate concern about the racial language used on a blog called “Racialicious” was being oversensitive actually got a comment approved.

    Really? Is it no longer okay to say “don’t call me that?” If it’s not okay to say it on racialicious, where exactly is it okay?

    On a perhaps more productive note, I invite other readers to read a little bit about the history of nomenclatures that sought to determine degrees of mixedness:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadroon

    Here in Canada and the US, such “degrees” are used to determine who is and is not considered aboriginal, not just by the state but also by some First Nations (including some Mohawks here in Ontario).

    From my understanding, in Australia, determining these degrees also helped determine who became part of the Lost Generation.

    Now, I certainly believe that Thea is as disgusted as I am about this. No doubt. But since we believe Alicia Keys can’t make a music video without political context, I think it’s fair to say that counting people’s mixedness and degree of mixedness also can’t happen without political context. And while Thea didn’t intend to do anything but refer to the fact that Keys has a white parent, some readers here have since taken the “first gen” discussion as an invitation to start talking about degrees of mixedness.

    I wanted to give that some context just to remind everyone that conversation isn’t happening in a vacuum either.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 7:47 am ¶

89. SDOG wrote:

    “Do you see how IDing people as “full blooded black” when they disagree silences them?”

    @moth, um im confused, not tying to silence anybody here, i merely used to term to be descriptive and to show the differences.
    By stating so emphatically that FGM people have no unique experiences from MGM people, yes you were trying inaccurately portray FGM people’s lives as no different from MGM, and that is simply not reality. are you an FGM or ever had a relationship with an FGM and experienced their family situation?
    As I stated previously, growing up with parents of 2 different racial backgrounds is a totally different experience than say, one of my cousins on my A.A. side of the family.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 9:55 am ¶

90. Celeste wrote:

    @socgrad: I liked your comment a lot, I think it describes what’s going on in this thread very well.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 10:03 am ¶

91. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Chanda

    I was actually just thinking about this this morning as I was brushing my teeth – that the “generational” language will mean something v. different in diff. contexts. I think for people of colour in the US who came via immigration and not slavery the langauge of generations may have neutral or even positive connotations. On the other hand I think you are quite right that it would have different meanings for African Americans whose ancestors were brought to the US because of slavery.

    I’m glad we could have this conversation productively – this has given me a lot to think about.

    @socgrad

    Thanks – I agree with you totally. I am thinking about writing a separate post about how we can talk about this stuff on Racialicious without people getting their feelings hurt and I may use your comment!

    @ moth

    I agree and disagree. I think the trick of writing about any kind of mixed race experience (or racial experience!) is that it’s going to be different based on the person. For eg I learned a long time ago to not just assume that any POC I met in a white space was going to have the same ideas as me and be my friend.

    At the same time obviously there are similarities, which is why we even all come together here at Racialicious, on a pan-ethnic site. And that’s why I used the term “first gen” in the first place to talk about Keys and Drake, rather than of “black and white parentage” – because I (advisably or no) take an interest in the racial politics of their career because I also come from mixed parentage, but not the same as theirs…I have found commonalities between myself and other people who have parents of two different races/ethnocultural experiences. That is definitely something that has helped me a lot to find a place in the world, so obviously I am invested in talking about ways in which generationally we may have something in common.

    This of course is not at the exclusion of talking about ways in which I may have things in common with all POC and people who are MGM – it is just a subsect of identification, I guess we could say, in the way I position myself in the world.

    I do think there are similarities, which is why we even bother talking about “a mixed race identity.” On this one I think we may have to agree to disagree.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 10:48 am ¶

92. Lola wrote:

    @ Eric Daniels

    I like what you said, what makes the video problematic is the “revisionist history” taking place in the flash back to previous generations

    I think the video would have been better if in the previous generations they showed Black or other minority men being harassed by White Men for dating White Women then in the present day had the BW/WM pair being harassed by Black Men.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 11:21 am ¶

93. moth wrote:

    @SDOG

    1. I didn’t say that multi and first gen people experienced the same things. Do you realize how offensive it is that when you thought I was saying this you said this cheapened the first gen experience – as though multi gen people have cheaper experiences?
    2. Why do you assume a multi person is “full blooded black?” I know several multi Creole people who, using the logic of blood quantum, are almost full blooded white with a black ancestor.
    3. You and your cousin are not representative of all first and multi gen peoples’ experiences.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 11:57 am ¶

94. Chanda wrote:

    Thea I appreciate the consideration! Of course I understand very much that these things are hard to talk about. As Adrienne Rich says “the oppressor’s language.” We are still trying to figure out how to make it our own.

    On a slight historical note (so I don’t shame my mama), my family has both the immigrant and the slavery thing going on. We’re from Barbados, where people coming in lot of different shades is a much older phenomenon than it is in the US and where the English were very into applying these varying shaded-terms. (As were the French in Haiti.)

    When my mom came to the US though skin color wasn’t her problem. It was her accent. She got called monkey girl amongst other names a lot at her all-Black girl’s school in NYC.

    The caribbean angle carried over when I went to college — students who identified as African American asked me what part of the south my family was from, and when I said Barbados, they said, “oh, you’re not Black like us.” I thought this was hilarious since my middle name is Sojourner.

    And then the narrative gets even more interesting if you cross the border into Canada, where the Black community is a mix of African American transplants, West Indians, Africans and Black loyalist descendants. And where white folks still feel comfortable asking if I am a mulatto.

    So, I think there is a lot to be said about the vocabulary we use to describe ourselves and each other. While it’s tempting to try and make it easier by saying, “oh, well I just meant African American,” or “I just meant people who are African American with a white parent” even that doesn’t necessarily clarify things. Many of us were born in the US but come from families that are Afro-Caribbean, African etc, and we’re all going to have different historical awarenesses that sensitize us to how our heritage (and skin color) is talked about.

    I think the best thing we can do at this stage is step back when someone mentions a concern and try to understand why they are experiencing a concern. (which we both did, yay!)

    The last thing we should do is get into attacking people for being too sensitive though — we’re all participating in this discussion (or many of us are) because we’ve probably heard that one too many times.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 12:42 pm ¶

95. Eric wrote:

    There’s no mystery here: No one has cared about Alicia Keys for years, so she released a provocative video to get back on the cultural radar. I believe that’s page 14 of the Madonna handbook, btw.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 4:28 pm ¶

96. SDOG wrote:

    “Do you realize how offensive it is that when you thought I was saying this you said this cheapened the first gen experience – as though multi gen people have cheaper experiences?”
    @ moth
    1.)this is not a coherent sentence.
    2.)where are you getting the “cheaper experiences from? you are conflating my previous statement.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 5:31 pm ¶

97. 9jah wrote:

    Re first gen and mixed gen:

    Thea, given that it is literally impossible to identify every single person as narrowly as each may like, the rationale and intent behind your use of “First Gen” distinction makes sense.

    Bottom line is (with due respect to choices regarding preferred labeling) first gen, multigeneration and monoracial experiences are, in some aspects and for certain people, different. Much like there are aspects of the first gen and multigenerational experience I would never have, there are elements of the monoracial experience multigen and first gen mixed folks would never have. Same for each categoryvis a vis the others.

    Experience is um… like a box of chocolates rather than single bars of milk chocolate, dark chocolate or vanilla. So, contrary to SDOG’s assertion, one can’t too readily make generalizations about the racial/cultural experiences of all first gen mixed people, much less vis a vis others. (Ex A: consider the poster who identifies as biracial, while sibling identifies as black). The experiences SDOG attributes to being first gen mixed person could very easily be the experiences of a multi gen mixed person – and frankly of many others in that community who, despite being monoracial of same race, are othered.

    SDOG and Moth appear to be scaling the same tree of ridiculousness and not realizing it while trying to kick each other off. Point is, each individual, monoracial or not, is dynamic and different and cant be simply lumped in a bucket for the most part.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 6:20 pm ¶

98. Jasmin wrote:

    I think it’s unfortunate that when topics like this come up there’s always a peep (or 2 or 3) of “Well Black people are the most racist against IR, and I would know, because I’m a BW w/a WM (or vice versa) and Black people are so mean to me! Wah!)

    While each individual’s experience is a legitimate one, discussions like this always go in circles, because good old confirmation bias will make you see what you want to see. If you expect that Black men won’t like seeing you with your White boyfriend, guess what? You will more likely notice Black men who have negative things to say than other groups. I learned this myself through a funny experiment with my boyfriend and his best friend. Out on New Year’s Eve (we are from San Francisco, so mainly White and Asian, with some Blacks and Hispanics), my boyfriend tended to notice White people who looked at us, I tended to miss it most of the time, because I have a short attention span, and his best friend (who’s Filipino) pointed out a bunch of Asian people he accused of glaring. I guess if I forced myself to pay attention, I’d notice Black people most often, since I have that habit of taking inventory of the other Black folk in a given space, so who we perceive as “hostile” really doesn’t mean anything in terms of some grand anti-IRR conspiracy. I admit I’m an anomaly of the crowd, given that overall White people stare at my boyfriend and I the most, and we’ve never had anyone comment on us, or even sneer. But in these discussions, it’s important to go beyond saying “Black people do it the worst” (or the reverse) and ask why it matters? If it’s an intentional demonization to legitimize an IR relationship, well that’s another conversation. If it’s payback for rejection by potential partners of the same race, that’s another issue. But pointing the finger gets old after awhile, and I have yet to see the point since a) the only relationship I have insight into is my own (and that goes for everyone) and b) that argument stereotypes IR relationships as strife-laden color conflicts.

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 8:19 pm ¶

99. moth wrote:

    9jah – I’d be interested to know what part of my statements you feel is ridiculous – that people have the right to self identify? that no two people have the exact same experience?

    Posted 27 May 2010 at 9:05 pm ¶

100. SDOG wrote:

     @9jah
     exactly how is posing examples from my own experiences “making assertions” ? I never once stated that my own example is the monolithic experience of any FGM individual, this entire time i have been trying simply to point out differences in cultural experiences between a FGM and a MGM, that’s it. Moth got huffy when I told the truth, the experiences are not the same. that is it

     Posted 27 May 2010 at 10:14 pm ¶

101. jade wrote:

     It seems to be Alica Keys is simply playing a black woman in an interracial relationship but the setting in which this video is taking place doesn’t correlate to the actual history of the time period.

     *Scratches head*

     So I agree with Thea’s points #1 and #2 but not # 3.

     Posted 27 May 2010 at 10:44 pm ¶

102. Colin wrote:

     You’re absolutely right to criticize Keys for this ridiculous revisionist view of interracial dating 1950-Present. I hope she gets royally dissed by someone at The Source, Ebony, or some other black owned publication or media outlet for what’s basically a whitewashed, sanitized depiction of black-white relationships. I know there’s hostility to black-white relationships by blacks (my parents have dealt with it personally), but if Keys wanted to deal with the subject realistically, she should have included more white actors acting hostile, especially during the 1950’s, for god’s sake!

     One last thing, seems there’s a lot of film and television shows depicting black women/white men relationships, which is statistically not as common as black men/white women relationships. It’s time to set the record straight on this. Will a filmmaker who’s clued in please come out and make a film that depicts interracial dating honestly and fairly please?

     That’s all. Great post!

     Posted 27 May 2010 at 11:48 pm ¶

103. g531 wrote:

     I began reading through this and I completely agree with Thea and with Deaf Indian Muslim as well. Given the length of my response, I just wrote a blog entry about it.

     http://politicsofbochinche.blogspot.com/2010/05/unthinkable.html

     Posted 28 May 2010 at 10:50 am ¶

104. thought bubble wrote:

     i think that alicia is now a “cross over” and most of her audience is white so it makes sense to make this video.

     her image when she first came out was more *cough* “urban”

     now she is more popular with …fairer…audiences

     Posted 28 May 2010 at 12:08 pm ¶

105. Urban Suburbinite wrote:

     @SDOG who said, “the experiences are not the same. that is it”

     The examples you gave as your experiences are EXACTLY the same as mine, and I am MGM. (please refer to my comment #73) Had you given examples of how your experience was actually different from that of a MGM person, people would understand the point you are trying to make.

     For example if you elaborated on how having parents with two distinct different ethnicities shaped your world view. I could completely see how that would be a different experience. However at the same time a person who may consider themselves mono-racial could have the same experience if one parent was African American and the other was Caribbean, or if one parent was Dutch, and the other parent French. They would still experience growing up within two cultures.

     Another difference I could see between being FGM and MGM, is that FGM’s don’t have the benefit of having a “mixed” parent to relate certain issues to. For example, when my older brother had the afore mentioned problems in school, my father could and did say, “Yeah I went through that too. The girls didn’t want to talk to me because I’m 1/2 Jamaican. Here’s how I dealt with it…” A mono-racial parent may sympathize with you, but not really know how to deal with that, having not experienced it themselves.

     Going further, if your experience is different than that that of a “full-blooded A.A.” (used just for context, as the concept isn’t really accurate), then it would stand to reason that when you have children, who would be MGM, their experience could be as different or as similar to yours, by extension of YOUR experiences (like if you self-identified as mono-racial vs. identifying as biracial etc.). They may have differing experiences from their own siblings, based on many variables. The whole thing is not so black and white (pun intended). Generalizations are tools of the Devil, I tell ya. ^_^

     Like someone else said up thread there are a lot of variables, that shape experience. Geography, demographics, appearance etc.

     Bringing it back to the point of the thread; Alicia’s experience *may mirror what she was trying to get across in the video, but trying to frame that experience in a flawed historical context is what failed her. I’m of the opinion that this whole video was the dream child of the director, who obviously didn’t think it through.

     I think what many on this thread are saying is that experience is not an all-or-nothing, either/or situation. Alicia’s possible (because we are all just guessing anyway) experience is just that; HER experience. Whether that was used as impetus for this video remains to be determined.

     On a more shallow note, I was most annoyed by how BORING both the song and video were.

     *I don’t know why, but Alicia has always pinged my gaydar on a Queen Latifah level, so I really can’t picture her with a guy period.

     Posted 28 May 2010 at 12:35 pm ¶

106. little mixed girl wrote:

     unfortunately, the video is blocked in japan. and after a 30 second search for a video, i gave up.

     i think that keys is a great singer, and i like a few of her songs. but, i honestly feel that she is trying too hard to be “black”.

     and based on what i read in the original article, it sounds like this current video is an extension of that.
     i don’t think that she would try and say that white people do not feel anything towards interracial relationships.

     i think that she’s trying to say that she as a “black” person, living amongst black people is experiencing hostility from her own environment.

     from what i remember of the few videos i’ve seen of hers, it seems like she makes an effort to use mainly black people in her videos, and position herself as black.

     i doubt that she is trying to say that black people are more racist than whites, and white people are overall more accepting of interracial relationships.
     doing so would alienate her audience, which is blacks, regardless of the number of non-blacks that also listen to her songs.

     ======
     as a mixed person, i do have to say that i find it very frustrating that some people feel the need to come into any post about someone that is part-black mixed and say, “well, all blacks are mixed”.

     what is that adding to the conversation?
     it seems like a cheap shot taken at part-black mixed folks to let them know, “hey, you’re not special. why should we spend any time on you?”

     alicia keys is relatively well-known, and most people know that she is biracial.
     while i don’t use “gens” to talk about mixed people (i’m more of the: when you get to 1/16, you are probably more monoracial than anything. line of thought…that i know people will take issue with), seeing that keys is so well-known, i don’t think that there’s any doubt about what thea means when she says “first generation mixed”.

     either way, the main point of the article is keys’ video…not what gen mix she is…

     Posted 28 May 2010 at 1:44 pm ¶

107. Mickey wrote:

     @ Urban Suburbinite,

     The part where you talk about a MGM person having a parent to relate certain issues with as opposed to a FGM who does not have a parent who can relate to similar issues makes me think of an interview with Mariah Carey. She said that growing up as a mixed race child, she would tell her mother, who was raising her as a single parent, about her experiences dealing with race with regards to how people viewed and treated her. She said that her mother could sympathize with her, but could not empathize with her since she had not lived the same experiences that Mariah was living.

     @ Colin,

     Even though there are more BM/WW couples than the opposite, the BW/WM relationships have always been featured in the media moreso nowadays. I grew up as a television junkie and whenever I would see a black/white couple, it was almost always a BW/WM couple, hardly ever the reverse, even though I knew the reverse existed. Today, you do see more BM/WW couples in media, but we know certain powers-that-be do not want to showcase that too much.

     Posted 28 May 2010 at 8:28 pm ¶

108. moth wrote:

     @Little Mixed Girl

     I don’t think anyone has said every black person is mixed. I’m not sure how black people became the villains in all this. People of many races defend MGMs. Jack Forbes (Native American) S. Alan Ball (Native American) Eva Marie Garoutte (Native American) and J. Kauanui (Native Hawaiian) are a few scholars who can provide you with a good 101 on mixed race and MGM identity.

     Furthermore, I’ve never heard anyone say MGMs are mixed to simply state the fact that someone has some remote ancestor in their lineage of a different race than the rest of their ancestors – when I hear people say this it’s because a culture, which may be small by the racist logic of blood quantum, is a key part of their life.

     Tied to this is the idea of specialness. That it’s special to be mixed. That in order for mixedness to be special not everyone can be mixed. That people considered monoracial don’t feel that status is special and so try to claim mixedness. That mixed people don’t find monoracialality special and don’t want to be lumped in with the monoracials. (I’m not saying you said any of this, but this seems to be a subtext of the thread.) All people, no matter what their heritage, are special.

     As Jack Forbes says, all people have the right to self identify – independently of blood quantum – more or less than 1/6 or generation.

     Here are some more resources: this paper “From bi-racial to tri-racial: Towards a new system of racial stratification in the USA”
     By Eduardo Bonilla-Silva at
     http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713685091&db=all has this abstract: In this article I argue that the bi-racial order (white vs non-white) typical of the United States is undergoing a profound transformation… the United States is developing a complex, Latin America-like racial order. Specifically, I suggest that the new order will have two central features: three loosely organized racial strata (white, honorary white, and the collective black) and a pigmentocratic logic…

     You see this is the comments on this thread. Some FGMs are angry at being lumped together with MGMs whom they assume to be “full blooded black” while it is never considered upsetting or considered period that MGMs could fall into any other category such as near full blooded white with a black ancestor Creole. In other words, on this thread some FGMs don’t want to be considered the same as or have their territory horned in on by blacks, but they don’t exhibit this same anxiety towards other racial groups. Furthermore, FGM invocations of – you can’t understand what I feel because you don’t look they way I look are evidence of pigmentocratic logic.

     Another paper is Rejecting Blackness and Claiming Whiteness: Antiblack Whiteness in the Biracial Project by Minkah Makalani available here: http://thestudyofracialism.org/forum/63/whiteout.pdf Minkah, by observing some, not all, “biracial movements” makes some of the same observations as Bonilla-Silva. Furthermore, she notes biraciality often presumes to attack the idea of race as a biological reality yet is founded upon the idea of pure racial groups. You see this on this thread every time someone insists that an MGM isn’t really mixed but is really a “full blooded black” or even by positing the idea of FGMs. Minkah observes how many biracial people seek to police who is or isn’t legitimately biracial. In Minkah’s research, she observed how those advocating for biracial as a separate identity reject the sociohistorical reality of African Americans as being a mixed people as an already mixed African American is not a racially pure black who can partner with a racially pure white and make a “legitimately” mixed child. Some of those Minkah observed looked for ways to separate themselves from African Americans they considered insufficiently mixed, including bringing back the paper bag test. On this thread, appearance, blood quantum, and generation of mixedness seem to be the barriers. Minkah also observed how the biracial community she studied assumed that blacks were uniquely hostile to biracial identity – for example they claimed that blacks were the sole group to oppose mixed race identity on the census when really multiple racial groups opposed this. You see this on the thread where those who defend MGM identity are assumed to be black and not other races.

     This conversation disturbs me because it’s evoking some rather reactionary racial ideas while anti-racist, progressive, socio-historical based models of race that recognize race as a fluid construct are being ignored. It’s almost as if the past decade of whiteness, race, indigineity, and anti-racist studies is being ignored.

     Posted 28 May 2010 at 11:42 pm ¶

109. Blak Afrik wrote:

     I was born and raised in Monrovia, Liberia and moved to the US to go to college in Minneapolis, Minnesota. One thing that surprised me was how bitter some of my IR friends were towards their white relatives and how easily some of my white friends felt they could be disowned for dating outside their race. This was in the early 90’s.

     When I met my wife who was IR in 2000, I was nervous about meeting her mother’s relatives who were white and very conservative. As I have gotten to know them, we have gotten very close and they play an important role in our life as a family. Not everyone has evolved. Some of us still see and judge people based on their skin color. I was lucky to be raised in a family which was accepting of everyone and also lucky to have married into a family where the things that are important to my culture: my language, food, customs, etc. are valued.

     Being Liberian, I celebrate everything with a party. Our kids have had Liberian themed parties, Scandinavian themed parties and just plain kid themed parties. The wide diversity in America is it’s greatest strength. We have to stop propagating this idea that everyone must believe, act, love, think the same way. To create a more just world we need to start with ourselves and treat everyone how we want to be treated.

     Miss Keys gives one perspective on interracial relationships. What she fails to acknowledge in her video was that so many African-Americans and IR people were born from relationships where the black woman involved had no choice. In my experience, black people in the Caribbean, America and in West Africa have always been accepting and very nurturing of children born through interracial couplings. I have seen the video, and she is free to love whoever she wants. But she shouldn’t leave out years of historic truth to create a story and if the director crafted the story, shame on her for letting something that seems so important to her be mishandled.

     Posted 29 May 2010 at 2:13 am ¶

110. miga wrote:

     @little mixed girl: Yeah, I’m in Japan too and the video is dropped…on a side note, when I first started to comment on racialicious I was going to use your screen name until I found out you had it…weird… Secondly I agree with lots of your points.

     While I can’t watch the video yet, it seems from the comments and the OP that her attempt to talk about an IR dating experience was ham-fisted at least, and I agree with Thea in that being a child of an IR relationship I would have hoped she’d know better. Yeah, some black people can and have given people a lot of ish for dating IR- you can’t erase that and those people should be called out for doing it. But to pretend that there was never a powerful force coming from some white people against IR (as it seems she’s done) is irresponsible. As an artist you don’t have to answer every question at every angle, but you should make sure there are no GAPING HOLES.

     I also agree with Thea and others who say that being “first-gen” and being MGM are different experiences, espcially when you take into account the languages, cultures, etc. of the couples involved. For example I am an MGM from a loooong line of MGMs. My mom for example is of mainly black(dad) and Japanese (mom) ancestry, and my dad is of mainly black(mom) and Mexican(dad) (of course, there is Cherokee and French and German in the black ancestry on BOTH sides, which of course makes for a different experience for their “black” parents). Having one parent who was not US born and who had a poor grasp of english affected my parents differently than it would me- who knows little Spanish and Japanese, and has parents who are (largely) without “foreign” accent. My parents lived in the same town for many years, went to the same high school, knew a lot of the same people and yet had vastly different experiences based on who their parents were and what language they spoke. They are both mixed with one non-US parent, yet they related to the world and being mixed in a different way. My older sister is more white-looking and has more white ancestry than I do (my mom was married to another guy before my dad) and SHE relates to the world differently than I do. I am lighter skinned than my little sister- we are both the products of the same parents and yet because the world relates to us differently WE relate to it differently because of it. I have a different experience of what it’s like to be mixed than my parents did, and am lucky that they can teach me about what to say in X,Y,Z situation- when they grew up they didn’t have anyone to help them do that, so OF COURSE my experience is different.

     Posted 29 May 2010 at 2:57 am ¶

111. DreaD wrote:

     I think that this video has a definite anti-Black male (specifically dark-skinned male) theme. Whether or not it was her intention, the video serves to mark light-skinned/bi-racial Alicia as the only reasonable, sensitive, loving Black person in the video, the one who can see how much this poor White guy is hurting. This is a problem, and perpetuates already existing ideas about White goodness in contrast to Black badness.

     Additionally, there’s a lot of anti-Black male bias happening on this board too. I respect individuals’ experiences (and for the sake of disclosure, I too am a BW in a relationship with a WM). BUT it’s incredibly myopic to believe that Black men are the most discriminatory against BW/WM relationships. Yes, I’ve had Black men say f***ed up things to me. I’ve also had (and continue to have) a surprisingly significant amount of Black men be extra cordial to both me and my partner, as well as comment on the beauty of our relationship. We’ve also experienced a significant amount of stank-edness from White women. I think there’s something to what a previous poster said about seeing what you expect to see. My experiences are only my own, but my point is that considering racial context and history, it’s important to not perpetuate ideas that Black men are whom we should fear, blame, and loathe the most.

     Posted 29 May 2010 at 12:39 pm ¶

112. Mickey wrote:

     @ miga,

     Maybe another reason why there are hardly any white people giving AK and her boyfriend ish for their IR in the video is because we all already KNOW that some white people would have been against it. That’s no secret, so it doesn’t need to be addressed. After all, it wasn’t black people who created the anti-miscegenation laws. But I totally understand where everyone is coming from.

     Posted 29 May 2010 at 1:14 pm ¶

113. Observer wrote:

     The whole “seeing what you want to see” B.S i keep reading is very offensive.
     It is to say “well it’s your fault because You are looking for it!”
     No, i’m not looking for “it”. I am very aware of my surroundings but never do i seek this kind of attention.
     Usually the Bm in question are very vocal and very obvious with the staring you down thing, and it is Not only Me who notice it, but many people around me as well which is embarrassing and a form of shame tactic.
     It has happened to me numerous times and it saddens me when people dismiss my and many Bw like myself who have experienced the same thing, we always get the “well you see what you want to see” .
     Never have i said that only Bm are capable of this, i was simply talking about MY experiences as a Bw in ir.

     Posted 29 May 2010 at 5:09 pm ¶

114. Rose wrote:

     There does indeed seem to be a sort of IR revisonism. I am sure many black men and women are vocal and virulent against IR couples. But throughout history the real physical violence and social exclusion has come from whites.

     This is why I roll my eyes, when films always make it out that the black family is only against IR.

     Take the various films and shows for example. “Guess who” switched the tables. Granted this was on purpose because it was supposed to be a modern take on the issue. Take the movie “Something new.” One only meets Kenya’s friends and families who are against IR. While the white charcter
     (I forgot the name) is so cool with the issue.

     This revisionism is sometimes not sinister, as it is trying to take a new look at the issue. However, this “minorities can be bigots too” is a way to mask the real source of hatrade of “race mixing.”

     Posted 30 May 2010 at 6:16 am ¶

115. Rose wrote:

     However, just because most of the physical violence and social exclusion of IR is from whites doesn’t mean people have the right to tell people they are lying about their life experiences.

     Black men indeed do sometimes ridicule WM/BW relationships. And as is often cited black women ridicule BM/WM relationships.

     I don’t think it is fair to minimize this.

     However, the oppropribirum is never as strong when a white, asian, hispanic gets wiht a black person.

     The whole “blacks can be racist too” which one sees in films like crash, mask white privelege. And the way white privelege can socially exclude those who get with black men and women.

     Posted 30 May 2010 at 6:20 am ¶

116. Sabrina wrote:

     Thing is…there are still some Black men who get very angry if a Black woman dates white. Look at the sad case of USMC Sgt. Jan Pietrzak and his wife Quiana. They were murdered in their own home back in 2008 by 4 other Marines who were angry about the marriage. They wrote racial slurs on the walls of their homes and raped her. The media all but ignored this hate crime. ..and law enforcement tried to deny it, too. Really a shame.

     Posted 30 May 2010 at 10:19 am ¶

117. Dsky wrote:

     Has anyone considered that Alicia herself may have driven the content of this video? While I agree that the imagery is damaging to black males, what if Alicia primarily experiences negativity from black males.

     As School Daze depicted, light skinned black women are some of the most sought after women. And as a very light black woman with money, she may be even more sought after. As harmful as this imagery is–On a day to day basis, could she be experiencing more backlash from black men than white people? Is that why she thought this video was good or accurate or whatever?

     Posted 18 Jun 2010 at 11:12 pm ¶

118. Michelle wrote:

     @Rose
     You brought up a point about revisionism that many others have also. I’m black and I thought that was part of the point. EVERYONE has seen white violence aimed at blacks for interracial dating. Although the 50s and 60s time jump may have lost historical accuracy, I think there was a point she was trying to make. Racism is not a one-way street and that is forgotten a lot. As much as some whites disdain interracial relationships, you can find as many blacks who say, “There goes another white woman taking one of our men” or ask, “What does that white man have that we don’t?” How many times have you seen a portrayal of that in the media? As I watched the video, I thought more about the black community’s perspective on interracial relationships than I would have had this whole video been “historically accurate.” Is it Keys’ responsibility to be historically accurate or to give us her creative interpretation of a theme or idea?

     @Katryn
     I have many black-white and black-asian mixed friends and I think I have an answer for you. The reason they identify more with the black race is because on the outside, that’s what they are. The more “black” my mixed friends look, the more they identify with the race and vice versa. I can’t remember who it was, but someone famous said, “Yes, I have a white mother and a black father, but when I try to get a taxi, I’m black. When I try to get a job, I’m black.” I don’t think it would be a complete denunciation of your family’s culture; however, our society, in many ways, does force you to make a choice. The Census, the PSAT, the school registration. Early on you’re forced to make a choice and most people do it by physical features.

     Posted 19 Jun 2010 at 9:25 am ¶