Quoted: Dani McClain on Fierce Single Black Women and Activism

I didn't work this hard just to get married cover

That panic is rooted in the sense that too many professional women (of any race) not getting married means too many people pushing back on sex-based pay disparities in the workplace. It means too many people questioning the logic of tying health care benefits, property rights, hospital visitation rights, etc. to marriage. To me, these articles and “news” programs are being published and broadcast in an effort to stem this coming tide. And those of us black women who feel offended and mischaracterized by the media onslaught should take this as our cue to claim our rights and our rightful place as trailblazers in the 21st century reconfiguration of family and adulthood.

Rather than take the bait and feel terrible about ourselves when some media outlet tells us we’re both cause and victim of an “epidemic” or “crisis” in the black community, let’s assert that we are grown-ass human beings, and thus deserving of the same social, economic, civil and political rights that married people can access.

A vocal segment of the LGBTQ activist community has been making this argument for a while now. People like Kenyon Farrow, Jasmyne Cannick and Yasmin Nair have long been arguing that rather than making marriage the be all end all, we should be supporting each other in creating custom-made families that work for us. They’ve pointed out the folly of fighting to mimic and reproduce the patriarchal, nuclear families that continue to be held up as the only legitimate model in this country. These writers argue – and straight, unmarried black women would be smart to join the chorus — that rather than focusing on getting more people married, we should be de-linking human rights from marriage and creating space for a broader acceptance of the cobbled together, nontraditional families that many of us came up in. I know I’m not the only one who was raised by a thoroughly capable single parent and the family members she kept close to make sure I was surrounded by love and good care at all times. My family has never been illegitimate.

So where have we been while this segment of the LGBT community has been crafting the arguments we need to be firing off to Essence every time they let Steve Harvey ruminate on how much we should hate ourselves? While segments of the gay community are planning for a time when non-sexual domestic partner benefits are available nationwide, why aren’t those of us who still don’t quite get how marriage would enrich our lives spiritually, romantically or materially supporting that fight? Even if we do think we might want to marry some day, why not join forces now with people like Farrow and Cannick as they argue for the kind of movement that would benefit us just as much as it would benefit them?

–From Unmarried black women: “We’re here, we’re fierce, get used to it.”, full post available at Feministing

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  1. Alas, a blog » Blog Archive » Linkspam : Short and Sweet on 07 May 2010 at 12:25 pm

    [...] Quoted: Dani McClain on Fierce Single Black Women and Activism That panic is rooted in the sense that too many professional women (of any race) not getting married means too many people pushing back on sex-based pay disparities in the workplace. It means too many people questioning the logic of tying health care benefits, property rights, hospital visitation rights, etc. to marriage. To me, these articles and “news” programs are being published and broadcast in an effort to stem this coming tide. And those of us black women who feel offended and mischaracterized by the media onslaught should take this as our cue to claim our rights and our rightful place as trailblazers in the 21st century reconfiguration of family and adulthood. Rather than take the bait and feel terrible about ourselves when some media outlet tells us we’re both cause and victim of an “epidemic” or “crisis” in the black community, let’s assert that we are grown-ass human beings, and thus deserving of the same social, economic, civil and political rights that married people can access. [...]

Comments

  1. jen* wrote:

    rather than focusing on getting more people married, we should be de-linking human rights from marriage

    THIS. A thousand times.

  2. Ladyrindy wrote:

    I LOVE the fact that more and more people are starting to writing arguments to the whole “Black women never getting married” crap that the MEDIA is selling recently. The way it sounds on TV or some websites, you would think black women are counting the nano seconds until we can snag a husband. Most young women, including black women, are in no hurry to race down the aisle anytime soon. When/if it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, WHO CARES!

  3. Eva wrote:

    Thank you for this. I really wonder why people think marriage has to be the be all end all of life. When I was in college in the 70’s so many of the women were there to marry West Point graduates; about half of those marriages ended in divorce, so much for the fairy tale.

  4. Queenjulie wrote:

    Genius. I want “My family has never been illegitimate” printed on billboards and bumper stickers all over the country.

  5. Ridiculous wrote:

    Urrrggghhh AAAAAaaahhhhhhHHHHH!!!! Representation as hos and representation us as “wantin’ to be single” are STILL bad representation!!!! That’s it. That’s it. I’m pushing ahead with my projects. This is ridiculous, and I’m not going to hold up this book as some sort of a trophy. MOST of the single black women I know WANT to be married. They’re having issues attracting suitable partners b/c of b.s. like this. The VAST MAJORITY of single baby-mamas I know WANT a husband. Not a man, a husband! I swear, I feel like the vast majority of women who support these type of “new space” movements are fundamentally resigned to the fact that they believe that THEY cannot attract and are not worthy of marriage and partnership.

    Maybe it is not prevelant in their communities (and we never want to talk about the root of that issue…). Maybe they have been passed over in some social situations (and we never want to talk about the way we are presented publically casue that assigns blame…).

    We never want to talk about the fact that.. WE AIN’T WHITE WOMEN! WHY so many black women in this country are trying to ignore this real dynamic and “carve out” new spaces instead of looking at the T.V., movies, advertisments, and everything else that re-inforces EVERY day that we are not treated the same I do NOT understand. You can’t carve out a new space if you weren’t even IN the old space. We are NOT some different type of women, most of us DO want a family with a HUSBAND, MARRIAGE, and children. I’m really starting to believe that those who are putting out these images and stories believe that they are not fundamentally the same as other women.

  6. Celeste wrote:

    @Ridiculous: Agreed, I think it’s sour grapes. Decoupling these things from marriage is a good idea but that doesn’t change the fact that most of us do want to be married (to men or women) and have a family. There are definitely those that don’t but that’s far from the majority. Who is served by making us seem deviant from every other racial/ethinic group of women on the planet? Not AA BW, that’s for sure.

  7. shemari wrote:

    I have to agree 100% with Ridiculous. I’ve recently decided to stop reading a number of Black women blogs because of this message I’m starting to hear.

    On one hand we’re not good enough for marriage and on the other hand, we’re too good to even WANT marriage.

    I’m sick of this shit and will be tuning all of it out!

  8. Blackandalive wrote:

    @Ridiculous I agree. In the long run ending the patriarchal system o marriage is a great goal– but this reminds me of the people who used to say to me when I was young “you know it’s a good thing that black women aren’t portrayed as princess, or pretty things– you don’t have to deal with the sexism!” –But, as a little girl who liked dolls and tea parties (not the kind we have now, the kind with jam and teddy bears) –all I wanted to be was a pretty girl. I didn’t want to lead the revolution. I wanted to be happy, and yes I’ve internalized some sexism and even some racism… but I’m not different than any other person.

    I’m very happy to be married as an adult. I both like and criticize the rather traditional life I lead. I also feel a little invisible since, it’s not like all black women don’t get married. I experienced a lot of racism while dating– but I did fall in love at last and find someone who could love the real me.

    And if that’s what black women want to do, can’t we support that too?

    I’m not buying this “take our toys and go home crap” –some people want to get married some of us like it– Some of us think it’s not worth it, all of those things are OK.

    When will they write an article about happily married black women like me, who dodged and fought and cried about racism– but lived happily ever after anyway.

    We exist.

  9. Eva wrote:

    I don’t think the article is saying marriage is bad or that black women shouldn’t want to be married. However, marriage should NOT be considered the be all end all. You don’t marry and go to heaven, you get married and then get on with your life.

  10. Ridiculous wrote:

    @Eva, besides a small segment of middle/upper class American white women, what group of women IN THE WORLD is trying to send out messages that they are not interested in marrying? Can you answer that question? Because I’m actually looking at what demographic (age, history of country of origin, etc…) profile of a lot of these article’s authors, and the pattern I see, is… a whole lot of single black women who came of age when partnerships and marriage were being devalued in our community, and when black women were being devalued by our community.

    I never said that marriage was the be all, end all. I’m wondering why we as a group are not pushing any message that marriage is GOOD. When you get married, and you get on with your life, it also means that when you have children, you have a second income to raise them. When you are sick, someone else can go to the store and buy some groceries. You become part of a second family (in-laws).

    I really am curious, why so many black women are championing for other black women to do well BY THEMSELVES because it is assumed that they will be BY THEMSELVES, instead of asking why that is so? Is it a done deal now? Are we as a group un-marriageable?

  11. Ridiculous wrote:

    @Eva, I just re-checked your comments. You went to college in the 70’s? I wasn’t even in ovulation at that point. To be plain, you’re not actually in the larger dating market right now, you’re not personally feeling the fall-out from all of this while trying to find love. It is a BAD LOOK right now, and many of the younger black women I know are NOT appreciating this pontification of “rose-colored glasses” from women who are not in the trenches NOW. Times were different then. BET Uncut didn’t pop-up on T.V. screens at parties when you were in college.

  12. shemari wrote:

    When did marriage for Black women become “the be all end all?” I keep hearing that the Black community has a 70% OOW birthrate. If that’s true then obviously a lot of Black women were not hearing or were not listening to that [must get married] message.

    The message that I’ve been getting most from Black women and the community is that “you don’t need a man. You can take care of yourself and any children you have/want by yourself.” Black women are superhuman when it comes to bearing burdens, but we are not worthy of being desired or protected.

    Finally, when was living in a non-traditional /extended family ever a problem in the Black community? That’s how I grew up for most of my life and many other Black people I knew. It seems like some people are getting defensive when others decide that they want something different from norm.

  13. deathblossom wrote:

    @Ridiculous

    Supporting the idea that being single is not a DIRE situation is good for everyone. The author even mentions that someone people may actually want to get married – but that, in the meantime, there is no reason to let the media and society make you out to be deficient and defunct while you are not. In the meantime, there is no reason why you shouldn’t be elligible to the financial benefits married couples receive simply for being married.

    As more and more people wait to get married (or choose to remain single) these privileges become available for a select few and thus, punishes those who are not getting married (something that’s even worse if you’re not getting married because of societal racism, homophobia, and class disparities). Since so many of the people you know are struggling, helping them while they’re in this apparently longterm state is better than shaming them for being in this state and pushing them to be in relationships, married or not, that aren’t good for them simply to avoid the stereotype of being a single black woman.

  14. unusualmusic wrote:

    @Ridiculous and Celeste and whoever else

    Ladies, I am going to need to request that you all refrain from behaving as if just because you and your friends think that marriage is something you want, that a. all black women think that way (anecdate ain’t data) b. that its apparently “white” to think that being a single woman is a fine thing. (there are MILLIONS of black women in the US. WHY THE HELL should we all think alike, I ask you!! c. That we black women who don’t think marriage is all that are deviant. To hell with that BS. All day long from preacher to parent to black media, I keep hearing this drumbeat that one needs to get married or else!! ANd now that variosu black women are fighting back against that and pointing out that what might work for some people doesn’t work for others, the expected backlash and policing begins. Get it through your heads that people are different and that their choices should be respected. Hell yeah, there should be writing about happy married black people (occasionally that shows up in Ebony magazine by the way). Why don’t you all write about that on your blogs and stuff, I for one would link it. But please refrain from policing mine and other black women’s choice to kick marriage to the curb and be happy singles. It ain’t deviant, we will damn well fight the societal pressure, and you all can either support our choices, pull a “it ain’t my business how you run your life” or be prepared for us kick that “must get married! strait-jacket” to bits.

  15. divalive wrote:

    I think the point is missed.

    Being a single black woman is not about (1) a lack of self-esteem or lack of self-worth, or (2) finding oneself worthy of marriage and partnership.

    Ultimately, it’s about having the right to create whatever life you want for yourself without people telling you what you should or should not do.

    Want to get married — Go for it!

    Don’t want to get married — Go for it!

    Black women have the right to make these choices without being racially profiled and told that we are to blame for all the social ills that plague the black community.

    Just like every American, black women (single or married) have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness however she choices to define it.

    That’s the point of the book IMO.

    What’s more is that women of all races are tired of being told that in order to have any BASIC human rights or any soci-economic benefits we have to be married.

    Like the author said marriage should not ever be tied to pay for work, health care benefits, property rights, hospital visitation rights, etc.

    These are basic individual rights you claim the moment you are born regardless of your sex.

    To live in a society that denies you these rights is just plain wrong.

  16. Asada wrote:

    @ ridiculous,

    We come from different places, You want marriage to be a good and important part of peoples lives. I just want the media to stop hounding me because I’m not following some predetermined “pattern” and want other things in my life.

    I just want ppl to stop making marriage an imperative and understand it is a choice.
    I need it to be okay for me NOT to choose a DEFAULT set by someone else.

    Just as I want ppl to stop making marriage a way to legitimize children and ration out important health benefits.

    But I understand people will never look into the reality , but only the benefits of marriage. as you’ve said:

    “When you get married, and you get on with your life, it also means that when you have children, you have a second income to raise them. When you are sick, someone else can go to the store and buy some groceries. You become part of a second family (in-laws). ”

    If you are lucky you get this convolunted image of what a ” marriage” is suppose to be.

  17. octogalore wrote:

    I like what Ridiculous says and don’t think it is incompatible with the idea that alternatives to marriage should be respected and not pitied or othered. I also read the exerpt as suggesting some deviation on the part of black women. While as Ridiculous says, nobody should force BW (or anyone) into a box and BW have distinctive concerns, it seems unfair to suggest a lesser need for something that, right wrong or indifferent, feminist or not, many — I’d argue most — women do want.

    That said, as Asada says, it needs to be OK per the media and everyone who is affected by it, to have another path. But I don’t read Ridiculous as disagreeing with this.

    I’d argue for a middle ground between setting up marriage as the be all end all, and suggesting that BW should actively promote single parenthood as a special alternative for BW — when there’s no more reason to think a higher percentage of BW want to bring up children without a sig other (of whatever gender’s appropriate) than do women generally. For those who are single parents by design or circumstances, of course a book identifying these as equally legitimate families is a good thing. But selective promotion to BW of a choice that one cannot assume BW want in higher percentages than other women seems pretty problematic.

  18. Blackandalive wrote:

    I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s wrong to be unmarried. It can be the right thing for many women. We really should not be judged based on those choices. But I’m still very frustrated and angry that there are not more images of happy married black women in media. All anyone seems to talk about are the ones who are not married and how *gasp* awful that is. I feel totally invisible.

    I think talking about how black women can’t get married makes it self-fulfilling– everyone believes it and it hurts the self esteem of women who care about marriage. It’s wrong to tell those women “give up your dream” — I think believing in yourself, while it can’t stop racism it can keep you going– I think having more talk about black women in marriage would be great too.

    Marriage really has been the single best decision I ever made in my life. I dreamed of it for years and was so happy when it happened. I would never tell any other woman who cared about marriage not to go for it. It’s worth it.

  19. mixedjewgirl wrote:

    Asada,

    This isn’t a “convoluted” version of what marriage is at all. While it certainly isn’t perfect, marriage does empower children with different networks, more resources, and stability. I thank G-d that my parents have been married for 31 years.

    Unlike most black children in America, I grew up with a father my entire life. If I had a problem, he was there. I benefitted by having two involved parents-someone could always show up at my recitals, parent teacher conferences, ect. The black kids at school envied my two parent home for good reasons. I came out on top academically and will eventually inherit financially because of it. I wonder about the link between the lack of wealth passed on between generations in the black community and marriage.

    It pains me greatly that so many people in the black community are anti marriage. Marriage is like any other institution, it can be done well or horribly. It really is up to the individuals invovled.

    While I certainly understand that marriage doesn’t suit some people, it works for many others. I support this campaign only under the condition that it qualifies as a movement for some black women, not all of us.

    I don’t want any part of this.

  20. Candace wrote:

    I feel like Ridiculous, shemari et al are missing the point. But I’m not getting involved in this flame war, but to ask that the black women in this thread on either side please check their heteronormativity. Please keep in mind that there are lots of sisters out there who would love to get married, but are prevented from doing so by the state because of antiquated bigotry. As a matter of fact, the last census in 2000 found that over half of same-sex couples raising children in the US consisted of black women.

    So while y’all are hollering just be thankful you can even get married in the first place.

  21. Zedster wrote:

    I see a lot of defensiveness from pro-marriage people in here. Notice the author said “And those of us black women who feel offended and mischaracterized by the media onslaught should take this as our cue to claim our rights and our rightful place as trailblazers in the 21st century reconfiguration of family and adulthood.” Not “all black women,” just those who don’t find these claims valid to their experiences.

    @Ridiculous: Being “the same as other women” means a certain gender presentation. That’s all. Nothing about some genetic predisposition for wanting marriage or anything. If you and the majority of women you happen to know want to get married, I wish you the best. But don’t assert that your desires are universal and that wanting something else (remain single) is a “bad representation.” It’s a completely natural state to be single.

    My family keeps pressuring me about marriage, when in our very family I see plenty of examples of why NOT to get married, including an ugly divorce. Yet, they’re so brainwashed by the myth that marriage is always right and necessary to every woman that they keep bothering me. I just nod and say “Mmm hmm” or when I’m feeling feisty will reply “I don’t need anyone taking my money and hard work away from me.” Granted, there are real (financial) benefits of marriage—what we have today evolved from a wealth-consolidation transaction of rich landowning families. Once the middle class arrives on the scene, what the rich have, the middle class wants, and people toss out the broomsticks and rope for church-sanctioned “unions”. Notions of love and romance eventually make their way in, and we get today’s marriage. That’s fine if some people like that, and it should be just as fine for those who don’t.

  22. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    My, my, my, this thread escalated rather quickly.

    Some clarifications –

    1. I am going to fully cosign Zedster – please note, the frame in which Dani is using the piece in solidarity with nonwhite LGBTQ activists who are questioning the way in which marriage is tied to certain societal and wealth benefits in ways that other families (like a grandmother raising her deceased daughter’s children) do not receive.

    2. I see some folks equating a rejection of the marriage frame as advocacy for single parenting, which is way strange. Think we should do a little more discussion about nontraditional black families. This came up in the black women and wealth report – many of us have problems amassing wealth because we are often taking care of others outside of a formalized system – i.e. aging parents, other people’s kids, relatives that cannot support themselves. Just thinking to those near me, I have a friend who was raised by his grandmother, along with his brother, because his *married* mother couldn’t be bothered. (Marriage =/= a stable family. That takes a lot more work than a simple walk down the aisle.) His grandmother is also taking care of her sister, who had a stroke 8 years ago and is incapacitated, as well as providing financial support to the married mother and her three other children.

    The crux of that family isn’t marriage, it’s grandma. And what Dani and others are saying isn’t chuck the whole concept of marriage, but to re-evaluate who is being helped by this push. Marriage may help some individual women achieve their goals, but who is helping grandma? And there is also this idea that marriage is a magical community panacea, where as it is only the commitment to the community you settle in and the stability part that does that. Now I want to write a whole post on “marriage and the salvic wish.”

    In an article discussing The Color Purple, Candice Jenkins describes the salvic wish theory in The Color Purple. The salvic wish is best understood as an aspiration, most often but not only middle-class and female, to save or rescue the black community from white racist accusations of sexual and domestic pathology, through the embrace of conventional bourgeois propriety (Jenkins 973). Shug rejects the salvific wish by remaining outside of the southern definition of what it is to be a lady, to be seen and not heard. Because of the insistence that women in particular suppress their own desires (sexual or otherwise) and surrender passively to patriarchal control is a part of what might be called “rules” or tenets of the salvific wish, the actual behaviors required of black women under the wish’s influence (Jenkins 974). Shug rejects the notion of suppressing either her sexuality or rights in various ways.

    http://ayjw.org/print_articles.php?id=745230

    3. I believe that many of us were raised with a black love/marriage minded/uplift the community through self-based actions framework. But it would be helpful to remember that the black community is full of a lot of different types of people, and we need to widen our gaze a bit.We have a lot of folks that aren’t ever going to get married (legally or otherwise) but that doesn’t mean they aren’t in the same struggle we are.

    4. When did it get so damned socially conservative around here? Running a blog is like running a bar…

  23. bdsista wrote:

    LOL LaToya, I think you just uncovered the paradox of “some” Black folks that can be politically liberal, but more traditional aka conservative when it comes to family, marriage and church.
    My two cents, I too grew up with my father who is now 83 and I think is staying alive to make sure I marry the right man ( a second time) who he will approve of and take care of me and I am 50. I am a divorce attorney, did my own divorce, am on relatively good terms with my ex and still want to remarry. I loved being married and the two income/ dual parent benefit is NO joke! I struggle now to pay the mortgage on the home I got to keep in the marriage. It was not a struggle when I was married. He came with kids but had a job that required him to travel internationally extensively, so even when married I was like a single parent which is a reality for a lot of married women. But it was nice to have that built in date, (dating is not fun all the time esp. in your 50s with hot flashes and all) have that person to co-parent, and help care for the parents. Regardless of the relationship another person in your life is helpful if it is a positive loving relationship. Most of my friends in their 50s who are unmarried still want to get married but are sorely lamenting the fact that they can no longer bear children and wonder if that will limit their choice of partners. Some are open to adoption, but marriage on this side of the mountain means you are now planning for retirement and wondering who you will spend the rest of your life with before death. Its just an important a choice as it is when you are young. You also attract older retired guys who IMO look like my Dad so its kinda wierd. But even in my age bracket, professional successful Black women STILL want to get married, we just are very much aware that we don’t NEED to get married, but we want the choice nontheless.

  24. Eva wrote:

    @Ridiculous:
    It’s not like I went to college in the stone age. There is NOTHING wrong with getting married. I just don’t think it’s right that it should be shoved down people’s throats, as if a person can’t be happy any other way. The 70’s are NOT that long ago and things are NOT that different, people wanted love and marriage then too, both black and white people. When I went to college both white and black women did get married. But I saw a LOT of those marriages end in divorce because many of the women had rose colored glasses and didn’t realize that marriage, like everything else in life isn’t a walk in the park.

  25. Tracey wrote:

    Zedester and divalive: cosigned.

    While the title of the book may be reactionary, the main purpose of the movement is getting rights for everyone and stopping the priveliging of one form of relationship over others. This is about allowing people to choose who can visit them in the hospital, choosing who they want to receive their social security/healthcare benefits,etc.
    There is no reason that a person should be allowed to have their husband stay with them on secion 8 housing but not their sick father for whom they are the primary caregiver. There is no reason someone should not be able to take sick leave to look after their cousin’s child. There is no reason that I should be able to allow a husband to receive health care benefits through me but my mom and sister can not. Instead of priveliging marriage we need to start recognizing relationships between all people regardless of if they are married, related, or just close friends. Marriage should not be a priviledged institution, but rather a personal decision.
    At 23 I know that I do not want to ever get married or have a monogamous relationship. Open relationships and/or polamory is what works for me and I make that decision despite all the reminders that that can not possibly be what I want or “need”. But it is, and I am so glad that I am empowered enough to make a decision about relationships based on what works for me and not what is “normal” or “best for the community.” That is what I think all people need, no one should feel pressured into any form of relationship that doesn’t work for them, and no form of relationship should be priviledged over others.

    And ridicolous: the mentality on display from you seems to be part of the problem. Instead of trusting women to make their own decisions you jump to the belief that they only feel a certain way because they have given up or are depressed. What is that? Why is it so hard to respect their decision to be single and want to stay single or un-married? Instead of pushing women into a particular relationship model or assuming that all or most women must absolutely want and need that model even if they don’t admit it, why not encourage them to make decisions that work for them. For some that will be marriage, for others not so, but either way, relationship decisions made out of knowledge and self-awareness should be respected and not subject to speculation that they are just really depressed and have given up b/c they feel unwanted.

  26. Celeste wrote:

    I’m a bit confused by the backlash.
    1. I agreed that the benefits of marriage should be uncoupled.
    2. I included marriage rights for all
    3. It’s the representation that’s the issue. Extremes are easy, it’s the moderate balanced representation that seems to be so elusive. Proposing that BW should take the lead in eschewing marriage (to which I would say, you first) and be bad by themselves is just as bad as making us look like desperate lonelibots that nobody wants.
    @LaToya: I don’t see how rejecting marriage doesn’t come with a side of single parenthood unless we’re to presume that most BW who don’t want to marry don’t want to have children. I think most black women want to have children moreso than want to (or actually do) get married. The 70% OOW birthrate would speak to that.As to being socially conservative, if thinking that it’s better to have at least 2 good parents (not 1 or 2 abusive or negligent ones that seems to be always held as some sort of false dichtomy of good single parent family vs. messy divorce/trifling married family) to parent a child then I’ll be that. By good parents I mean people that have a long-term virtually unbreakable commitment to supporting a childs numerous needs. I’m talking about 2 mama bears, 2 papa bears, or one or more of each that are in it to win it on the child’s and each other’s behalf . Of course, if you’re wealthy/well-off then you can do whatever and it’ll work out great, however that doesn’t describe most AA BW.

  27. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Celeste –

    I don’t see how rejecting marriage doesn’t come with a side of single parenthood unless we’re to presume that most BW who don’t want to marry don’t want to have children.

    Well, one, I don’t think single parenthood is the big demon people are making it out to be. Yes, it is fucking hard – marriage, at its best, is about a team, people who share this enormous load both financially and from a parenting/support standpoint. However:

    1. Leaving out LGBTQ people (who may or many not buy into the institution of marriage) as parts of our community is harmful. Two years ago, Jabari Sinclair Allen wrote a haunting piece for us called “Truth/Reconciliation: Morehouse on My Mind” which challenged that frame, referring to the point that he brought up the problems with a heteromale headed nuclear household as the foundation of legitimacy “not to point a finger, but to shine a light.”

    2. Erasing women who do not want children.

    3. Erasing committed partnerships, where two people can be committed to their child and community without wedlock.

    4. Assuming that a rejection of marriage as an institution is a total rejection of companionship, partnership, and families.

  28. Eva wrote:

    @Tracey:

    You are correct. The issue is why give marriage more privilege than any other familiar relationship? Why can I put my husband on my dental insurance, but not my mother if I’m supporting her? Why can a married woman be allowed to take off during the Christmas holidays, but a single woman can’t because she’s told she has no family (but she does have parents, brother and sister).

    Marriage is a choice, not a privilege. Most of life is a crap shoot anyway, the fact that a person never marries doesn’t have anything to do with them really. Sometimes things just happen or don’t happen in life.

  29. Blackandalive wrote:

    I’m happy to hear the point about heteronormativity. I guess if i feel invisible as a black women who is happily married– it must be worse for others who’s relationships won’t ever get formal acknowledgment from our laws. That’s messed up.

    Still, this original post was telling black women who long to be married that they should be more radical and make being single some kind of political choice. There is this subtext that traditionally minded women are not being progressive enough.

    So, if a woman is sad that she faces rejection more often because of her race– or sad that our racist culture works 24-7 to emasculate black men… well it’s like saying “why not forget about that and join the revolution”

    The revolutionary idea that here is nothing pathological about being single or a single mother– I support that– but I’m not going to tell women who dream of getting married that that’s their solution.

    There will always be little black girls who dream of their wedding day. There is nothing wrong with these girls there is no reason why they can’t have that dream come true some day, if that’s what they want.

  30. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Blackandalive –

    Again, no one is saying that some women don’t want marriage. But the incessant media coverage *solely focusing on the sad, sad state of affairs for single and lonely black women is playing into a very specific narrative, that is not helpful to anyone at all. Profiting off black women’s pain is not going to fix the community.

  31. Celeste wrote:

    @ Latoya: How this message is less profiteering? It’s trying to tell BW that they shouldn’t want something that they may want and to do something else with their energy instead. Is this being marketed to other groups of women, doubtful?

  32. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Celeste –

    Did you click through the link to read the whole piece, as I recommended above? Where she addressed all your issues and then some?

  33. Ridiculous wrote:

    Why is marriage being held up in the black community as something oppresive, when we have the HIGHEST rates of dysfunction?

    My questions, and responses were legit, why are some black women (the most vocal) trying to pretend that they have the same privileges as white women on a site called RACIALICIOUS of all places?

    What does Shug have to do with this conversation? “The salvic wish is best understood as an aspiration, most often but not only middle-class and female, to save or rescue the black community from white racist accusations of sexual and domestic pathology, through the embrace of conventional bourgeois propriety (Jenkins 973). ”

    All I heard in that whole statement was… I didn’t grow up in a secure neighborhood or family structure because I see STABILITY as convential bourgeois propriety. Which if you come from a fractured family, community, or social situation, I’m sure that it does look bourgeois. And that was not a personal “you”, that was a general audience you.

    If we all have different viewpoints, and the black community is large and encompasing and all, why is reality (what is being called social conservatism apparently) being singled out?

    Latoya, aren’t YOU in a partnership situation where marriage is a strong possibility? Aren’t YOU reaping the benefits of that relationship? I mean… it isn’t like you’re on the sidelines and having to worry about your prospects with all of this. For all of the “pro-marriage” anger, we don’t dominate the national conversation. While social conservatism may take up a large part of the WHITE national conversation, there is just about NOTHING conservative in the black community besides some talk and MLK fans at the church revival. Not in behavior, not in product produced by us, not in work ethic, not in infastructure building, wealth accumulation, NOTHING except for talk and some b.s. about “the gays”, and “dem fas’ gurls”.

    The majority (80% now?) of black children in this country are now born to single mothers. The poorest segment of the population in this nation is single black mothers with children. The greatest rate of evictions is single black mothers. Some of the most devestated financial victims of this recession are single black mothers. Shelters in major cities have waiting lists for… single black mothers. You don’t see ANY correlation with this in terms of marriage?

  34. Eva wrote:

    @Blackandalive: The point is not to erase women who might never get married; tell them don’t spend their entire lives wanting something that might not happen, or that might not make them happy.

    @Ridiculous: I did not know that going to college in the 70’s erased me from this discussion and made my experiences irrelevant. I guess I should just get my rocking chair, shut up and hang out with the rest of the old folk.

  35. Celeste wrote:

    @ LaToya: I just read the article but I still don’t see how other women are being targeted to join in this advocacy. I agree with the premise that human rights should be uncoupled from marriage. If it were up to me everyone would get perhaps 5 dependents that they could designate as beneficiaries for health insurance and things of that nature. I don’t see how wanting that and supporting marriage (by my definition 2 humans) are at odds. We can support both can’t we?
    I do not, do not, do not like AA BW being singled out from all the women on the planet for encouragement or discouragement from anything ever at all. I view anything that falls into that category with heavy suspicion.

  36. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Eva –

    Girl, stay out of that chair, I need some back up.

    @Ridiculous -

    Your comments have been driving me up a wall for the last few days because we are not crusading about saving the “______” on Racialicious. We are *all* in crisis. And it’s not a new one. That works over at What About Our Daughters, not here. And all these things you take as “true” are actually culturally influenced assumptions.

    Crusading in the defense of the status quo is not bravery.

    Two, I don’t know who you are and where you came from, but stop trying to prove your point with my personal business. Because it is clear you do not know me and you do not know my politics. There’s a reason why I don’t sit up and make grandiose proclamations like “Since I got a man, I know all black women NEED to do to get a man is/get married is…” WTF is that? Everyone is different, with different goals , with different lives. Progressive politics don’t come with the wedding cake.

    (But I will say the reason why I am in a relationship now is because when he met me I was happy without him. )

    A lot of the assumptions people make about marriage are that it will help “stabilize the community” – in the same WOC and Wealth report I’ve been quoting for the last few months, it states, clear as day, that women who are married have more wealth, over all, than single never married women, and divorced women have more wealth.

    But that is not a function of being married.

    Marriage contributing to wealth is the convergence of a variety of factors:

    1. State benefits to marriage – this is what some GLBTQ folks are fighting for. Our government creates marriage incentives with things like tax breaks, health care – even with a business that gives a domestic partnership benefit – is subsidized for married partners, transfer of land, property, and wealth…all these things contribute to the wealth escalator, allowing people to take more deductions and amass more funds, on top of having a potential two earners in one household. These things could be decoupled from marriage.

    2. A lot of the “Omg, wonderful world of matrimony” assumes that these two people will settle down, pay taxes, send their children to school, and become productive members of the community. But there are many people who are married that have no intention of doing anything on that list. And there are people who are not married that do all that. And it is a failure of black organizing to place all of this emphasis on a walk down the aisle erases all those people who feel committed to their community but are at different life stages. (And over relies on people who may or may not be community invested – people get married for all types of reasons.)

    Yes, I am in a relationship, with a black man, heading toward marriage. However, that doesn’t mean that I suddenly got the wool pulled over my eyes by the marriage industrial complex, nor does it mean that I suddenly caught some view about marriage being the bedrock of the community. People get married for all kinds of reasons. My family isn’t much for the practice, my boyfriend is very invested. His fam has a bunch of failed marriages, mine has a history of no marriage, but 25 year committed relationships. I could give two fucks about some stupid ass ceremony – but it’s important to him. So we’re having one.

    In addition, for me, getting married is about my relationship. This person is my partner and best friend, and has been for the last 4 years. I hate traveling without him, because when we are apart, we both feel unmoored. I feel like I can take on anything with him by my side and he feels the same about me.

    We are both invested in the black community. But we had the same politics before we got together and before either of us started thinking about marriage.

    If you want to get married, you wished upon a star for that mess, then bully for you. Go for yours. I never wanted to be a singer or an entertainer, nor have I wished to climb Mt. Everest. But do not tell me that you’re just looking out for the black family when you jump on some bullshit “solution” that isn’t addressing the root causes of a problem. We don’t need every woman to get any little piece of man, or all men to start marrying someone they had four good dates with. We need people with plans, who are invested in their communities and critical thinking about the root causes of these problems. Which, in these debates, is sadly lacking.

    [Sidebar - everyone getting het up over what they *think* Dani is saying, go read the whole piece at Feministing. Her intro deals with all the stuff on Nightline, Steve Harvey, and such, her outro talks about the role of marriage in this discussion. Click the links. I don't add them in here for my health.]

  37. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Celeste -

    No, it’s asking women who are tired of the framing that the world will end if we aren’t all married off immediately to join with existing activists to reframe the conversation about marriage.

    She did a good job of framing that – particularly in light of Melissa Harris Lacewell and Courtney Young’s piece about what Nightline did wrong, in which they state:

    Despite its role as a news program, Nightline failed to call on any sociologists, psychologists, historians or therapists who could have contributed context, statistics or analysis about the “marriage crisis” among African Americans. Instead, these delicate and compelling issues were addressed by comedians, actors, bloggers and journalists. If Nightline deemed this story to be worthy of coverage then it had an obligation to cover the story with as much integrity as another social issue. It is hard to imagine Nightline assembling a panel of actors and comedians to discuss the economy, the war in Iraq, the Catholic Church or any other relevant issue.

    Without structural analysis or evidence-based reasoning the panel relied on personal experience. Steve Harvey, Hill Harper and Jimi Izrael have all written books on the black marriage/partnership crisis. To varying levels, all of these texts frame the issue as a black female problem rather than a community issue, offering advice that encourages women to mold themselves into a more sanitized definition of femininity that doesn’t compete with socially sanctioned definitions of masculinity.

    And which Dani plays off when she says:

    There’s so much to unpack from the recent trend of corporate media excursions into black women’s presumed desire for marriage, and I’m thankful that women like Melissa Harris-Lacewell, Gina McCauley and Farai Chideya have been deconstructing the madness. What interests me most about the trend are what I see as its parallel underlying purposes:

    1) To shame, ridicule and pathologize unmarried black women so that we become the cautionary tale, lest more women of other races start questioning whether marriage will actually contribute to their happiness, and

    2) To distract us from raising hell over all the legal and social benefits that aren’t available to us that would be if we were married.

    So, why are my conspiracy theory wheels turning over some bad television and magazine articles?

    Nothing about the tone of or approach to these stories tells me they’re actually for me or other unmarried black women.

    What are this media push doing, outside of feeding those who love the taste of black failure? It’s one thing to talk about these issues – but from Nightline, to ABC, to the Economist, they aren’t interested in the roots, they are interested in the spectacle.

    Dani is advocating to shift the conversation, in solidarity with those already advocating, to shift the laws to benefit all, not just those (like myself) who have the option to get married. How is her response to a hostile media onslaught singling out black women?

  38. Blackandalive wrote:

    “What are this media push doing, outside of feeding those who love the taste of black failure? ”

    That really is all that they are doing. But I think the response should be two pronged:

    1) A woman need not be married to reach her best potential.
    2) Some black women are married, millions of us in fact.

    The fact that so many men (and woman, for gay women) are so racist and that racism has specific stereotypes that label black women as undesirable . It mean those of us who want partners must look longer.

    The story they never tell is about how racist people are. Black men internalize racism, and white men mostly just think that black women are gross, which is the real reason black women don’t waste time dating outside of our race very often. You run a high risk of being used, so why bother.

    But the stories put it all on us.

    And yeah they don’t mention that it’s dumb to get married just for the sake of being married. I mean it’s not worth it if you aren’t in a good relationship built on respect.

  39. Blackandalive wrote:

    Right now there is this motion that having a race-based “preference” for dating or marriage isn’t really racism. But it is racism in my book.

  40. Celeste wrote:

    I agree with Dani’s analysis of the media onslaught replete with comedians and other similarly unqualified commentators. I guess I take issue with where she thinks we should direct out energies

    2) To distract us from raising hell over all the legal and social benefits that aren’t available to us that would be if we were married.

    I find that to be a distraction as well, a more benign one that something could actually come from, yes but still a distraction. To me, it doesn’t actually address any of the community/structural problems that make marriage less of a possiblity for BW that want to be married. We can argue what percentage of single BW would like to be married that aren’t, I think it’s at least half. If someone wants to put forth the idea that AA BW don’t want to get married as much as other women do then they’re welcome to go there. It’s very consolation prizesque if the most of the BW in question does want to get married. Yes, it makes things better for those who don’t but it doesn’t actually address the lack of marriage opportunity issue. I guess I don’t want this very valid and important issue “coupled” to the very vaild and important issue of decreased opportunities for marriage that BW face. Let’s couple it to allllll women (and men for that matter).

  41. Blackandalive wrote:

    @Celeste “It’s very consolation prizesque if the most of the BW in question does want to get married. Yes, it makes things better for those who don’t but it doesn’t actually address the lack of marriage opportunity issue.”

    Exactly. In some ways it reminds me of people who say gay marriage isn’t an important issue since “marriage is an oppressive system” — I mean *yeah* there is truth in that but part of the oppressiveness is are the barriers that keep people who want to enjoy it from enjoying it– along with the notion that there is something wrong with those who want no part in it.

  42. Gregory A. Butler wrote:

    How come when White women decide if they will marry or not, that’s considered a personal decision but when Black women make that same choice, the whole fate of our race is put on their shoulders?

    It’s not our job as individuals to save the race and I find this whole discussion of marriage in grand racial terms to be offensive in the extreme.

    Beyond that, even if every Black woman got married tomorrow we’d still have all of the social ills that American institutional racism has been inflicting on us for the last 400 years – marriage wouldn’t change that in the least.

    Marriage should not be a political statement – it should be a personal decision between the people in a relationship, and that’s it.

    [Note I said "people in a relationship" and not "couple" - relationships don't always boil down to just two partners - just ask those Muslim immigrants from Africa who's polygamist marriages were perfectly legal back home but are criminalized and pathologized here about that.]

    And yes, my parents were married (although it wasn’t a “Black marriage” strictly speaking, cause my dad was White).

    However, marriage didn’t save us from my dad’s alcoholism or the serial failures of his various commercial photo retouching and fine arts businesses.

    Nor did it save us from the systematic child abuse my mother practiced on me and my brother.

    Nor did it protect us from the racism of our White neighbors (White flight eventually solved that problem).

    Marriage didn’t even save my parents from the mutual infidelity that eventually destroyed their relationship (even though they stayed married on paper, for benefits reasons, right up until my dad died).

    I did inherit a Harlem co-op apartment, though – and I will give the marriage advocates that one (although the rapid price inflation of my residence after I got it had less to do with marriage than it did with gentrification).

    As for me, I’ve never been married and who knows if I ever will tie the knot – but that has absolutely nothing to do with the many contributions I”ve made to my community as a political activist, labor activist, writer and small business owner.

  43. Best to Believe wrote:

    Miss Latoya Peterson, I so heart you. That is all.

  44. Eva wrote:

    @Gregory A. Butler
    “Beyond that, even if every Black woman got married tomorrow we’d still have all of the social ills that American institutional racism has been inflicting on us for the last 400 years – marriage wouldn’t change that in the least.”

    I usually don’t agree with you, but you’re right on the money about that.

    There are a lot of things good about marriage (especially surrounding money and property) but it’s not the cure all, it won’t save you from poverty and it won’t save black people from racism either.

  45. Zedster wrote:

    @Gregory A. Butler:

    I think whites can behave like individuals because white supremacy allows them that liberty. Personal choices and individual failures or successes won’t necessarily impact their race because they have a system in place that keeps them at the top of the racial hierarchy.

    I think once the playing field is even, they Black people, Latin@s, and everyone else can do whatever they want without thinking about the racial ramifications. We simply do not have that luxury yet. Every action people of color take *literally* moves us up or down a notch, though there remains that glass ceiling above us which, as they look down, is the floor beneath the feet of white supremacy.

  46. DMoon wrote:

    That really is all that they are doing. But I think the response should be two pronged:

    1) A woman need not be married to reach her best potential.
    2) Some black women are married, millions of us in fact.

    The fact that so many men (and woman, for gay women) are so racist and that racism has specific stereotypes that label black women as undesirable . It mean those of us who want partners must look longer.

    The story they never tell is about how racist people are. Black men internalize racism, and white men mostly just think that black women are gross, which is the real reason black women don’t waste time dating outside of our race very often. You run a high risk of being used, so why bother.

    But the stories put it all on us.
    *************************************
    I agree with Blackanddiva and Gregory Butler’s assertions. I do think that Black women just have to be more proactive in how she approaches partnerships as a whole and unfortunately we are tasked to take on the weight.

    There is no easy solution precisely because of the racism, sexism, and general difficulties that we have to deal with in our communities and as Black women.
    If a woman is open, she has to deal with so much racism and the feeling of disgust unless of course she is a ten. An average white or Asian women who is dealing with a possible dearth, can still pick from literally millions of men who won’t turn them away.

    Black women have to deal with a level of intersectionality that puts our happiness at risk. Which is why I will end that we have to be assertive, proactive (and not as the Strong Black Woman) but empowered in how we conduct our lives.

    I do think expanding the relationship space is healthy, especially since Black people are often the barometer of future issues that will soon affect other groups. Partnerships have already evolved to some degree. Marriage is still a goal, but it doesn’t have to be the only goal. It’s just important that when a Black woman makes a decision it is something she can live with and is generally contended that she did.

  47. Nicole wrote:

    I completely understand where these sista’s are coming from in this article. Everywhere you turn-from blogs, to nightline, there are these stories about black women, and how we can’t get a man, or how we ca’t keep a man. Enough is enough already!

    Marriage is a personal choice. If that’s what you want, I pray that god sends a special man your way! :)

    If that’s not what you want? Then that’s fine too. I was married for almost eight years [I got married at 24]. I did the house wife thang, and the stay at mom thang. I’ve come to the realization that I really don’t want to get married again. I have my family, my children [No more kids for me!] my job, and wonderful friends.

    I’ve made peace with this choice. And that’s what it comes down to: CHOICE.

    So ladies, do YOU and be happy dammit! :)