Is Star Trek Exposing Your Latent Racial Issues?
by Latoya Peterson
I came across this gem while browsing the Hathor Legacy. Blogger Ankhesen Mié has been watching the debate on fan forums about the Trek reboot (specifically the Spock-Uhura relationship) and decided to create a quiz around some of the most common sentiments:
1) Do you feel horrified when you see Spock kiss a woman who looks like Uhura, and don’t know why?
2) Do you look at Zoe Saldana and feel you “just can’t trust her” but can’t say why?
3) Do you think Uhura’s not a very feminine character, but just can’t say why?
4) Would you prefer Spock to be with Christine Chapel over Uhura?
5) Do you think the Spock/Uhura relationship—in the story—is controversial because of Uhura?
6) Do you consider yourself a “die-hard” Trek fan but still don’t agree with the pairing?
7) Have you watched all things Trek—shows, films, interviews, etc. pertaining to this cast—and still think this pairing “came out of nowhere”?
8) Do you think the kissing was “just wrong” and that Zachary Quinto was hurt by the writers?
9) Do you think Spock wasn’t very “Vulcan” for being with Uhura?
10) Do you think Uhura forced herself onto Spock in the turbolift?
11) Out of the other dramatic elements in the film—death of Kirk’s father, destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan, death of Spock’s mother, near-destruction of Earth, Kirk’s overly-speedy promotion, the massive death toll of young, innocent Starfleet cadets—is the Spock/Uhura relationship what sticks out to/bothers you the most?
12) Do you feel a “strong black woman” should never be in an onscreen relationship because you think it “weakens” her character?
13) Do you feel the same about a “strong white woman”?
14) Do you tell yourself Spock would never find Uhura attractive?
15) Do you tell yourself Zachary Quinto would never find Zoe Saldana beautiful, or that Leonard Nimoy never found Nichelle Nichols attractive?
16) For white girls only: Do you sometimes/often/all the time wish Spock kissed a white character so as to make it easier to picture yourself in her place?
Analyzing the Answers
If you answered yes to 1-12, no to 13, and yes to 14 & 15…you have a problem. If you’re a white girl, there was no wrong answer to #16. Wishing an actor/character would be intimate with someone who looks more like you for the sake of fantasizing, oddly enough, is actually quite normal.
But let’s analyze the others now, shall we?
The rest is well worth a read, as Ankhesen Mié really goes all in on the answers:
Do you think the Spock/Uhura relationship—in the story—is controversial because of Uhura?
Here’s what throws people: Spock is the “Other” in this relationship, not Uhura. In the new film, we can see how human males like Uhura fine (Kirk in particular). What shocks Kirk is the sight of a fellow human in the arms of an alien. To a slight extent, Spock offends fellow characters who witness their relationship—not Uhura. Humans in the Trek verse understand why a man would date Uhura; they have trouble, however, understanding why Uhura—who could have anyone—would date a Vulcan.
Have you watched all things Trek—shows, films, interviews, etc. pertaining to this cast—and still think this pairing “came out of nowhere”?
This goes in line with the previous question. If you are a “die-hard” Trek Fan, then you of all people should know this relationship existed since the beginning—racism, ironically, kept it from being properly explored. If you “just don’t see it”, then understand the creator, the actors, the writers, and directors have confirmed this ad nauseum. The internet is filled with concrete evidence; more than enough, no doubt, for a “die-hard” fan like you. If you still can’t see it, then it’s because you don’t want to see it.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Kat wrote:
I have not seen the film, but to me this picture is weirding me out for a very different reason: To me Spock and Captain Kirk were very blatantly a gay couple.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 10:09 am ¶
Nin wrote:
4) Would you prefer Spock to be with Christine Chapel over Uhura?
–
Oh, this. I just LOVE when a white character is romantically interested in a character of color but 98% of the fans think “they have no chemistry” and those same fans think the white character would go perfectly with whatever random white character regardless of the context of both relationships. But no, it’s never about race… Right.
I’ve never seen Star Trek, but this article is a great tool to analyze a wide range of interracial relationships in other movies and TV shows.
Great read!
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:30 am ¶
Lola wrote:
In the Orignial Series (TOS) there was a Kirk/Spock bromance going on. Fanfiction made them a gay couple. In the 2009 movie they can barely stand each other for 80% of the movie.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:33 am ¶
Sam wrote:
My issue with the picture is that I wish they could have given Uhura the bigger role she deserved without making her a Love Interest.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:41 am ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:
“For white girls only: Do you sometimes/often/all the time wish Spock kissed a white character so as to make it easier to picture yourself in her place?”?
Seriously? I’m not a white female and I RARELY see South Asian/East Indian females onscreen paired up with white, black, Latino, or East Asian guys. I’ve had to settle with watching WHITE women being paired up with my Hollywood crushes onscreen, thank you very much.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:45 am ¶
Celeste wrote:
This is so awesome. I love the quiz format.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:47 am ¶
Lola wrote:
while it would be lovely if Uhura was the star of the movie that was never what Star Trek was about, it was always the 1.Kirk 2. Spock 3. Bones show with Uhura barely getting a line per episode the new movie makes it 1. Kirk 2. Spock. 3. Uhura 4. Bones which is a vast improvement in her screen time
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:53 am ¶
jen* wrote:
I was never into Star Trek until this movie, so I don’t know how things were necessarily “supposed” to go. All I know is that I wanted Spock and Uhura together, and I DID NOT WANT Uhura with Kirk. Under any circumstances.
So I was pleased. The only thing that bothers me about the above pic is photo quality.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:55 am ¶
supremelurker wrote:
@#4 Sam go read http://taraljc.livejournal.com/1366255.html and http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/557571.html and http://taraljc.livejournal.com/1331874.html on double standards and Uhura isn’t a white girl: http://rawles.livejournal.com/340736.html
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 12:03 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>In the Orignial Series (TOS) there was a Kirk/Spock bromance going on.
Wrath of Khan and the next movie did not change this. Why limit it to TOS?
>Fanfiction made them a gay couple.
Understatement of the month- this pairing in particular created and popularized the term “slash,” way before the use of the Internet
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 12:19 pm ¶
jmn wrote:
I like the structure of this post: its main purpose is for reflection.
The argument has been made before that Spock would naturally be attracted to Uhura and vice versa mainly because they’re both capable and intelligent people.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 12:24 pm ¶
Ike wrote:
After getting used to Quinto as Sylar in Heroes, it’s just weird seeing him kiss anyone. *shudder*
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 12:34 pm ¶
supremelurker wrote:
@4 Sam Here’s another one on why why Nyota Uhura i not just the girl friend http://rawles.livejournal.com/351309.html#cutid1
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 12:40 pm ¶
Sherri wrote:
I agree with Sam. Does every film need to have a love story tacked onto it?
I thought Uhura was a terrific character in this movie. I never watched much of the original series, but it was nice to see that role beefed up.
And as a white girl, I didn’t wish Spock had kissed a white character, I just wished I looked half as gorgeous as Zoe Saldana.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 12:41 pm ¶
Phrone wrote:
I thought the development in the movie seemed kindda rushed the first time I saw it, but when I rewatched it I could see how they were trying to develop the relationship before the destruction of Vulcan.
Some people have this incredibly blind hatred for the pairing. I know someone who says Uhura was “unprofessional” for rushing in — and the character this person wants to replace Uhura with is Kirk. Real model of professionalism there.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 1:16 pm ¶
Persephone wrote:
I love this quiz. There seems to be a lot of anger and confusion in fandom over the idea that “you can’t dislike S/U or prefer another pairing without people calling you racist,” and this really eloquently captures what the actual, non-strawman problem is.
I like Spock and Uhura together, and I also like them both paired with other characters in fic. I wish that people who are upset would do this self-reflection before lashing out at the people who do like the relationship.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:10 pm ¶
Persia wrote:
And for me, Nin, #4 bugs me, because it seems to assume that Star Trex XI is the New And Only Canon for the series. Back in the day, Spock/Chapel was pretty popular and had (IMO) some canon basis, and Uhura was later paired up in the movies with Scotty. I feel like it weakens an incredibly strong argument.
(FTR: I have never shipped Spock/Chapel, and like Uhura/Spock and Uhura/Scotty.)
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:15 pm ¶
Big Man wrote:
I know nothing about Star Trek, but that was an outstanding post. Just beautiful.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:17 pm ¶
deathblossom wrote:
I pinged on number 9, but I’m really not familiar with Trek lore at all. I just really like asexual heroes and usually loathe having romance getting in the way of my sci-fi/fantasy, especially since it tends to be a bunch of sexist tripe. This is especially compounded since Uhura didn’t get to do much else (sure she’s an awesome translator, but we only hear about this – we don’t see it, Zoe’s working them on this for the sequel though) and I did not like the teacher/student aspect of it. It came across as unprofessional.
@’Lola re: Kirk/Spock hating each other:
A minor obstacle. See FoeYay, other examples include Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy, Clark Kent and Lex Luthor, and L Lawliet and Light Yagami from Death Note. Although it is worth mentioning because a trademark of rabid slash and yaoi fangirls is to hate and unfairly criticize any female in the series who has the slightest chance of breaking up their non-canon slash romance and I’m sure some of that is at work with Uhura.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:19 pm ¶
Persia wrote:
There’s so much intersecting around the Spock/Uhura pairing– the slashers who seem to hate all women, the racism, the pre-movie fans who liked previous pairings (and, because I didn’t say this in my earlier post, pairing Scotty with Uhura wasn’t an entirely un-problematic choice).
Though after Pon Farr, I’m not sure anyone can argue that Spock is asexual. Maybe that he’d want to be under ideal circumstances….
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:34 pm ¶
karak wrote:
I was SHOCKED by the Spock/Uhura relationship, because I was sitting in the audience with a nasty taste in my mouth thinking Uhura would end up with Kirk. Then she picked Spock, and I was blown away with happy and excitement and admiration for her, because she skipped over the stupid glib one and went for the smart nerdy hot guy, just like I would.
They changed a lot about the characters. Old Spock would not have formed a relationship with a human, but New Spock never completed his Vulcan training to control/eliminate his emotions, so it makes sense he’d look for a human connection in a smart, able woman, one who might even understand some of his issues about being a human/Vulcan.
I really hope this relationship continues in the next movie, because I loved it so much and Uhura was such an awesome character and so CLEARLY smarter and more competent and better than everyone else and I want to be her and be all smart and get the great guy and have pretty long hair…
I’m a white Trekkie nerd, and I support this AU pairing!
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:36 pm ¶
Mary wrote:
Ahhh, yes. Such as the Heroes fandom, in which fans eagerly paired Peter off with HIS NIECE Claire while bashing Peter/Simone for having “no chemistry.” It’s true that the writing for Simone got weak as the writers lost interest in her, but she started very strong.
This was a great essay, and sadly quite well needed; the racefail among some segments of the Trek fandom has been really disheartening to see. I personally could care less who you ship, but some of the Uhura or Spock/Uhura-bashing gets out of control. There is nothing sadder than a fanbrat who thinks their ship is more important than basic concepts of decency or, you know, checking their privilege.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:42 pm ¶
usha wrote:
Uhura was badass and super likable in the movie (which Kirk and Spock, weren’t really, to me).
I would have preferred she hooked up with Bones. He was a much more interesting and attractive character in the movie, though he wasn’t in the original show.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 2:46 pm ¶
Martina wrote:
I would have thought that most of the Spock/Chapel fans would have had any issues with Spock/Uhura, just because it seemed like the most (one-sided/almost) canon in TOS (besides the obvious Spock/Uhura that couldn’t be), but ever since a particular bout of racefail and sexism on one of the anonymous fic requests, I wonder if it’s mostly slashers that have a problem with the pairing. (But I don’t see any Spock/Chapel fics much for TOS and less for the movie.)
The sad thing is, a lot of the Uhura bashing that came with the Kirk/Spock request didn’t seem to start off racist or sexist, but it really grew into it and it was scary how intense it all was. And now whenever I’m on dA and I see Kirk/Spock anything, I wonder what the artist thinks of Uhura (and the pairing, etc.).
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 3:19 pm ¶
Elton wrote:
Is it weird that as an Asian American, I identify far more strongly with Spock (comes from two different cultures but has a hard time fitting into either, scientific/logically minded, always the outsider, has difficulty with social interaction) than Sulu, the token Asian?
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 3:26 pm ¶
AMarie wrote:
wow… it never occured to me that the Spock/Uhuru pairing (lol that sounds like a wine) was problematic. I LOVED the movie and I cheered when Uhuru chose Spock over Kirk.
Perhaps, as an African-American woman who is currently dating a Korean man my perspective is totally different.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 3:40 pm ¶
vcious wrote:
First, Latoya, thanks for covering this. I’ve been on the edges of the new Star Trek fandom, mainly because I have some friends in it, and it’s been interesting and peculiar to watch the debates and boggle at the vitriol. I’m no Trekkie, saw the movie and loved it, and thought the romance was incredibly sweet and well-portrayed. I can’t understand the strong objection. I can understand not being too huge on romance because not everybody likes romance but the level of hatred and anger around this pairing is unbelievable. It’s like, wow, did we watch the same film?
Elton – That’s not weird, but it is interesting. I guess like the quote in the post demonstrates, the Otherness is sci-fi is often not tied to racial differences between humans but rather between humans and inhabitants of other planets.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 3:41 pm ¶
Lola wrote:
@ Elton, Spock’s character was always coded as Japanese. Sci-Fi loves to culturally appropriate their aliens as POC.
Spock also gets way more character development and screen time than Sulu so it is probably easier to identify with him.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:05 pm ¶
Mary wrote:
@ Lola:
I’ve never heard this – I’m not disagreeing with you, just wondering if you can elaborate a little bit? I had always heard that there was a Jewish influence to Spock via Leonard Nimoy.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:16 pm ¶
James wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it odd that, after fifteen excellent questions and answers probing racial thinking in the Spock/Uhura romance, we’re told that simply that it’s “actually quite normal” for “white girls” to only be able to fantasize about being white characters?
What, aside from deeply racialized thinking, would cause someone to only be able to fantasize about being characters of their own race? After all, this isn’t *really* about wanting to relate to a character who simply “looks more like you,” since there’s no hint that height, weight, hair color, or other physical attributes are absolute stumbling blocks.
I assume this has something to do with the deeply personal nature of fantasizing, specifically, about being intimate with someone else, but do we think white viewers interested in Uhura’s character would have a hard time placing themselves in Spock’s shoes, even though he’s an *alien*?
This may be “normal” (”oddly enough”), at least in our society. But do we really want to encourage people to think on such a basic level of those of other races as “the other,” and to be untroubled by this? If these attitudes may be too hard to shake, or perhaps even ingrained from childhood, shouldn’t we at least call this what it is?
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:25 pm ¶
Elusis wrote:
Which female student in the Harry Potter films was it that set off such a firestorm of controversy (like, the actress even got hate mail) because she was played by a WOC and white fans freaked out? Angelina Johnson? (Surely not Cho Chang?) And then there was another set of freakouts when Blaise Zabini was cast with a black actor, and loads of white women who had written slash about him lost their minds…
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:25 pm ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
Oh…wow. You know, I really didn’t expect it to go this far.
But you have no idea how flattering…and bewildering…it is to see something of mine posted on Racialicious.org, which I’ve been coming to since forever. Thank you SO much.
@Elton. Most people of color identify with Spock (and other Vulcans); he was designed as a character through which many different issues with race were supposed to be explore. People forget Star Trek came about during the Civil Rights Movement and was almost entirely about social commentary.
That the Vulcans were inspired by various Asian ideals and cultural aspects is fact. Note the deliberate choice of a Chinese erhu in the film’s score; it’s used strictly for the Vulcans.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:27 pm ¶
Persia wrote:
What, aside from deeply racialized thinking, would cause someone to only be able to fantasize about being characters of their own race? After all, this isn’t *really* about wanting to relate to a character who simply “looks more like you,” since there’s no hint that height, weight, hair color, or other physical attributes are absolute stumbling blocks.
That stuck out to me too. I’ve never been particularly “Character X is just like me!” so I’m curious to see what others might have to say.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:45 pm ¶
N wrote:
Interesting.
I think some of the issue is the bromance thing. IMO the triangle is not ultimately Kirk and Spock competing for Uhura but Kirk and Uhura competing for Spock and that Uhura right now is #1 in Spock’s affections galls viewers.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:46 pm ¶
JL wrote:
“Which female student in the Harry Potter films was it that set off such a firestorm of controversy (like, the actress even got hate mail) because she was played by a WOC and white fans freaked out? Angelina Johnson?”
Wait, people freaked out about Angelina Johnson being a WoC? I thought it was clear enough from the books that she was black. At one point, I forget in which book, one of the Slytherins makes a crack about her hair.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 4:56 pm ¶
Tara wrote:
“Which female student in the Harry Potter films was it that set off such a firestorm of controversy (like, the actress even got hate mail) because she was played by a WOC and white fans freaked out? Angelina Johnson?”
I actually remember this controversy being about Blaise Zabini. Many people were unsure what gender Blaise was (I haven’t read the book in a really long time so I’m not sure if it was established early on that Blaise was a male) and due to his surname, many people assumed he was meant to be a white Italian. When it turned out that he was black, I remember a lot of people freaking out and desperately clinging to their vision of Blaise.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 5:25 pm ¶
Talis wrote:
“Wait, people freaked out about Angelina Johnson being a WoC? I thought it was clear enough from the books that she was black. At one point, I forget in which book, one of the Slytherins makes a crack about her hair.”
If I remember correctly the actress who played Cho Chang suffered massive hate for taking on the role. Alot of fangirls hated her for being Harry Potter’s love interest. I do think there was a definate racial tinge to it. Apparently some people didn’t get that a character named cho chang would be Asians. Swear to God others couldn’t get past an asian girl with a Scottish accent.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 5:30 pm ¶
Mickey wrote:
@ Elusis
It actually was the Cho Chang character that some white fans freaked out about. Many assumed her character to be white since her race was not specifically mentioned and when race is not mentioned, the assumed race of the character is white. More worldy readers (including myself)automatically knew that her character was Asian due to her name. And the actress, Katie Leung, did receive hate mail because she was cast as Harry’s love interest.
Also, most people thought that Blaise Zabini was Italian and a lot of fan fiction had him written as such until producers were casting him and in the sixth book he is described as a “good-looking black boy with long, slanting eyes.”
@ JL,
No one, that I knew of, freaked out about Angelina Johnson. Goblet of Fire describes her as being a “tall, black girl” and one of the Slytherins made a crack about her hair because she wore braids.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 5:37 pm ¶
shemari wrote:
OMG this post made me venture back into Live Journal which I had sworn to leave alone as one of my NY resolutions. The main reason was because of the uproar over the Spock/Uhura pairing. Second was uproar over any race related posts.
I absolutely loved that the new Star Trek movie paired Uhura and Spock. I love me some action, adventure, and romance all in one. The movie wasn’t perfect, but I absolutely saw nothing wrong with Nyota having a relationship with Spock. Zoe Saldana as Nyota Uhura was beautiful, intelligent, and assertive. Spock was smart, well-respected, and loyal. What’s not to love about two people like that getting together? I’m also SO sick and tired of the “Black woman so strong and independent she doesn’t need a man (or anyone) to love and value her” meme.
Finally, since currently in America no one wants a Black educated, professional women with high standards, everyone should be thrilled that Uhura can have a high profile position on the coveted Enterprise and have Spock as her man!
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 5:38 pm ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@James
About Question 16
The point of the question was to be the “twist”. By #16, I’m no longer talking dissecting Uhura-bashing, or even Star Trek, for that matter. Zachary Quinto is a somewhat attractive actor. As Spock, he’s even more attractive.
Granted, the first 15 questions come from some of the more offensive posts, most of which came–and still come–from white females. But what if you’re a white girl who genuinely harbors Uhura no ill will, isn’t remotely bothered by her being with Spock, and isn’t–overall–paying attention to the movie? In short, sexually fantasizing while watching a film is always made even easier when the recipient of your intended’s affections looks more like you.
Think of it as an innate psychological component in masturbatory fantasy. The pornographic industry has built its empire on the human tendency even more easily or “realistically” enjoy a sexual fantasy about an onscreen character.
For black female fans of John Cho…didn’t he become even more sexually exciting once he got naked with Gabrielle Union?
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 6:03 pm ¶
shemari wrote:
@Ankhesen Mié re: your response to James concerning question 16. I totally agree. The key is your statement “when the recipient of your intended’s affections looks more like you.” Emphasis on the “more like” part since people will pick that item apart.
As a Black woman (in regard to Cho and Union) I think the excitement also has to do with the fact that we’re constantly told how undesirable Black woman are to non-Black men so it’s really an awesome surprise to see that lie debunked.
Great quiz BTW. I hope that some people do take the time to reflect on their answers. I read through your 340+ comment post and was enraged, though not surprised, to see so much defensiveness.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 6:27 pm ¶
DMoon wrote:
I was never into Star Trek until this movie, so I don’t know how things were necessarily “supposed” to go. All I know is that I wanted Spock and Uhura together, and I DID NOT WANT Uhura with Kirk. Under any circumstances.
***************************
That was my thinking as well. The movie looked like it was going in that direction and I was happy that it was actually Spock that she was really interested in. Chris Pine–Kirk never grabbed me as a character and the usual tired his Brilliant Bad Boy White Male angst. I much preferred when the movie focused more on Spock with his mixed parentage and his divided loyalties.
And I am a fangirl.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 6:56 pm ¶
James wrote:
Thanks for replying, Ankhesen, and I hope it was clear that I wasn’t criticizing the quiz overall, which was *fantastic*!
I take your point that we should be much more forgiving of people’s sexual fantasies and preferences than of their criticisms of other matters, even when those fantasies are affected by racial thinking (to which, after all, we’re all exposed in this society from birth).
I think where we may differ is that I see this quiz, first and foremost, as a very clever way of exposing the ways in which people think in racial terms, even when they might not realize it. And I think question #16, like the others, exposes a way in which people are taught to privilege race in their approach to the world.
You say that fantasizing is “always made even easier when the recipient of your intended’s affections looks more like you.” If you’re just saying that people tend to prefer a match on as many physical attributes as possible–height, hair color, skin tone, etc.–that’s one thing. But I got the impression that the “white girls” in this scenario wouldn’t be simply wishing that Uhura had their hair color or build, but would care much more about a match on race than about other characteristics. That part isn’t merely “natural.” If that’s true of some white women, then I think that indicates that they’re trained to think of themselves and others in powerful ways in racial terms, and that’s probably worth exploring. In particular, it suggests to me that, as is true for some Americans in many different contexts, they probably use race above other factors in deciding who is “like them” and who isn’t, and I think that’s not “normal,” except in the sense that racialized thinking is still fairly common in our society.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 7:04 pm ¶
John wrote:
@Ankhesen Mie
I find you post #40 and blog comments interesting!
Why do black women constantly look to the media to feel valididated?
Regarding John Cho, he’s married to a Korean women, so wouldn’t that spoil the fantasy, when said black women research him? Also Gabriella union was married to a black man current boyfriend Dwyane Wade, black NBA player and pretty much exclusivley dates black men, wouldn’t that also spoil the IR fantasy of said black women? Or is the imagery of the media suffice?
I feel a lot of us IR daters, are feeling blue, because we know often our objects of desire, don’t desire us back! Call it projection, but I kind of want to resemble the guy my favourite white actress is kissing passionately. Apart from Ellen Pompeo and Alaina Huffman, Eva Longoria ect who are all married to black men some with kids. I don’t really look to Hollywood or the media for my interracial fix, cause I often wont find it.
Also….
I read your blog and you accused Asian women and Black men of deserting their races, for whites.
You said…
“Both have counterparts who are rapidly marrying outside their races, notably to whites. ”
…Which although is true for a lot of Asain American women. It simply doesn’t apply to Asain women in Homogeneous Asian societies, where, ‘Rain Bi’ is the idol and not ‘Robert Pattinson’
True, Black men are dating interracial higher then black women, however just beacuse I’ve never dated a black women or plan too, doesn’t mean that black men like me are in the majority. Just the same way, some black women are dating Interacialy doesn’t mean the vast majority of black women are down with the swirl as they say lol.
Interracial daters regardless of race are in the minority and will be, it’s rare for someone not to be attracted to racial features which they have.
Also, why people keep peddling this notion that black men in genral are leaving black women behind for non-black women I don’t know. What’s even funnier is the accuser such as your self are interracial daters, often citing lack of black male attention as one of the reasons you date non-black men.
Finally Regarding the picture and notion of a WM/BW pairing, I have no problem. Infact I’ve introduced serveral couples, it wasn’t as if I was going to ask them out to coffee anyway, so why hate lol!
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 7:41 pm ¶
BillytheKidd wrote:
I agree with James.
Question number 16 draws upon a whole of set of assumptions that are at the root of our troubles with racial identity.
Ask yourself this: would a very light-skinned black identited woman necessarily identity more with Zoe or a white woman? Because, if its the case that in our fantasies we identify more with those who necessarily share more of our physical traits, this hypothetical woman might ID more so with a white actress over Zoe. Of course, there is more to ones physical appearance than skin color and hair texture. Likewise, one could consider class, ethnic, nationality, gender and personality traits as possible gross markers with which to identify.
Additionally, this question assumes that individuals privilege racial/ethnic identity over other categories.
As an addendum, I would ask, why is interracial porn so popular with white males if any of this is true?
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 7:52 pm ¶
shemari wrote:
@John – I know you were directing your comments at Ankensen Mie, but I had to respond.
You ask: “Why do black women constantly look to the media to feel valididated?”
So we’re supposed to sit back and continue to: a) accept being ignored or being invisible or b) accept negative portrayals of us and insults?
We have every right to expect and demand that media give fair representations of Black women, just as any other group does. Representations such as the on-screen relationship between Cho’s and Union’s characters and Spock and Uhura don’t only serve to “validate” Black women.” They also give viewers who aren’t Black women another positive portrayal ( to balance the plenitude of negative ones) of Black women and relationships. In regards to Cho/Union, I bet there were some Asian men that were delighted at seeing an Asian man in romantic relationship for a change as well. *I hope.*
Second, why did your 2nd post allude to IR dating? I don’t get that Ms. Mie’s intent was to promote or condemn IR dating by using the Cho/Union example. I hope to hear her comments on that. I also fail to understand why you felt the need to mention the race of Cho’s and Union’s real life spouses or partners. Their romantic choices in real life don’t negate the effect of what’s portrayed on screen.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 8:28 pm ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ anyone still interested analyzing human masturbatory fantasy–LOL
For starters, you’re all thinking way too much! For example’s sake, you’re a black woman. You’re a black woman who’s a fan of Spock (after all, that’s what started all this). You’ve been attracted to him for quite some time now, so much your body is programmed to “respond” the moment he steps onscreen, or raises his infamous eyebrow, or even utters–in that deep, rumbling voice–the word “logical”.
You fantasize about him while watching an episode or a film, and it’s easier to do so because he’s right there. Hearing his voice out loud, seeing the words come from his mouth, they add a sense of realism to the fantasy.
Now when you see him kiss a woman–any woman (as he so rarely does)–he’s even more easier to fantasize about because now you know which way he dips his head, how he holds his partner, and whether or he works his mouth tenderly or passionately. This knowledge, of course, adds additional realism to your fantasies.
NOW…you’re a black woman, watching Spock yet again, this time on a giant film screen…kissing a black woman.
With this extra precious tidbit of “realism”…how do you think your body responds then?
See, WHO we are attracted to in the first place may or may not be the result of conditioning, but not the actual process by which our minds and bodies–in union–handle the attraction.
@ John
So, Cho’s being married to a Korean doesn’t disrupt the fantasy. We’re not watching him with her. We’re watching him with Gabrielle.
As for my website, I didn’t “accuse” anyone of anything; it’s sociological fact, my primary interest. Note the other sociological similarities I stated between the two groups. Google them, if you don’t believe me. It’s from information like this–as with my quiz–that I learn about people so I can write them realistically.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 8:28 pm ¶
Sam wrote:
@9 and 13
I was not saying that Uhura is “just the girlfriend” in the movie, nor was I criticising her character. I was saying that I felt her character only got the bigger role that she deserved because the writers were building up to the reveal of her relationship with Spock. Frankly, I think that if this relationship idea hadn’t occurred to one of the writers, she would have ended up with the same amount of screen time as Chekov – and I think the relationship idea only occurred to someone because heterosexual romance is a must-have on the checklist of modern Hollywood movies of any genre, something I take issue with.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 8:40 pm ¶
Mars wrote:
Personally this post bothered me because I tinged on #7 and #9 creating a catch-all for anyone who didn’t like the U/S in the movie being a racist – and an example of why I as a black female TOS fan feel ostracized when I talk nutrek and the fact that I didn’t like the way they set up S/U.
Mentioning it to the actual poster of course got dismissed as either a) internalized racism or b) a reflection of a deep passion for k/s and bitterness that it wasn’t carried through. This is what happens to me EVERY TIME I don’t gush about their awesome S/U pairing.
As someone who completely improbably was in love with the series before nutrek, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t astonished at the vitriol that come out of the U/S camp at all other shippers as well. It’s a ship war of epic proportions to say the least. God forbid you point out that the writer’s don’t bother to set up S/U or the drastic changes in Spock’s character required for it to happen before they confirm it happening – or even the quasi-strangeness of the choice to place Uhura in a relationship with her teacher. Don’t point out that in TOS she had more chemistry w/Sulu and Chekov. Don’t point out that in TOS Spock had more interaction with almost anyone but her which is partially why the K/S fandom was so visible with a strong sideline of chekov/sulu/uhura. Don’t point out that before its confirmed that S/U are dating you only see Uhura and Spock on screen together once. There is no possible reason you didn’t see S/U but racism.
Mention any of this and you get told “well why should they have to telegraph a change to a character” when the only reason they get away with such shoddy chara development on their own is dependent on their playing on a cultural understanding of who spock and uhura are to make the matchup. The argument is that it’s AU, you don’t have to telegraph changes – but you sure should explain where they come from.
Someone above mentions that Spock hadn’t completed his training and that why he’s so different in nutrek. That’s not true, Spock leaves Vulcan at the same point as he did in TOS – when he has to choose between the VSA and Starfleet. They change Spock, but they don’t change Spock’s past. They don’t change Uhura’s past. I don’t think that anyone would argue that Spock and Uhura in TOS act like current or ex-lovers so that’s what would have had to happen to make the pairing believable [I mean Spock is currently engaged to T'Pring as far as we know!], but I’ve gotten jumped on anytime I’ve pointed this out.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 9:48 pm ¶
Lady Di wrote:
@ Shemari and Ankhesen Mie
You guys do not have to explain yourselves any further on this issue. It’s quite common for most people to sexually fantisize about characters in films and televisions or just celebs period. Black women doing it is no different. The issue is that the Spock/Uhara relationship has had some star trek fans very upset and in my opinion some of the arguments are very petty. I would agree that some of the vitrol has come from some White females fans of Spock. The thing is they like just everybody else probably had sexual fantasies about Spock and for the director to finally play up their relationship probably ruin the fun for them and some began to attack viciously. However, this doesn’t stop at Spock/Uhara, I’ve heard some people make very upsetting comments about Black women generally in loving relationships onscreen or hell offscreen. However, usually the attacks happen when the man is very attractive and is marketed as a sex symbol. I saw the comments on how some of Adam Rodriguez fans threw alot of shade because of his preferences of Afro-Latina and Black American women . Saying that he “acts Black” and that he should be dating someone like Emily Procter [his co-star in CSI:Miami]. We all know what the hell that means lol. It even got so bad that they called his girlfriends ghetto and put the “Angry Black Bitch” stereotype on these women without even knowing them. So it’s not always White men being in relationships onscreen or offscreen with Black women. It’s just men period being involved in loving relationships with Black women. The thing is anything that is not normal people attack. People aren’t really use to seeing Black women in loving relationships with men period onscreen or offscreen.
So therefore I refuse to see another mammy, sapphire, jezebel Black woman character on television. I’m tired of it. When you see red all the time sometimes you want to see something funky like yellow lol. It’s that so hard? Is that too much for some? The funny thing is no one is calling some of the white females who lashed out “Angry White Women” and playing up this controversy in mainstream media to exploit them. If this was the other way around you already know how it would go down lol. Can we sistas get a break? Oh John don’t front on your dismissive comment. You know damn well you and most people feel a little validated when you find a certain celeb or character attractive. You know damn well if the woman was into brothas or had a brotha who is a love interest you get a little tingly feeling inside. It’s normal we all want to feel have a chance [Even though we probably don't]. Hint why Kim Kardashian is a favorite amongst Black men. Folks need to get real. I just get tired of the “love is colorblind” crap thrown at Black women if they show some disapproval of a Black man being in love or having a love interest as non-Black but us Black women have to accept the mess and move on when someone disapproves us Black female being a love interest to someone who is non-Black. Please!
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 10:46 pm ¶
LadyGüera wrote:
@ Nin
Me too!
I never saw the movie but after reading this post and comment, I just may rent it.
I never understood why some women are hating the actress who played cho chang. I recall reading the books and I assumed she was of Chinese descent.
Do you sometimes/often/all the time wish Spock kissed a white character so as to make it easier to picture yourself in her place?
my dad’s white so I can answer this! No, but then I usually I see myself more as Bi- ethic/ racial than anything else so I have no strong emotions , but Lust.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:25 pm ¶
Valkyrie607 wrote:
I appreciate the shout-out to white girls, but I thought the Spock/Uhura attraction was HOTTT. Because Zachary Quinto and Zoe Saldana are HOTTT and because Spock is a super nerd guy and because Uhura is also super smart. I never thought about it decades ago when I was a ST fan but when I watched the movie I was just all a-flutter.
Also, I was happy because as a white girl who’s been dating an incredibly hot black guy for the past 4 years, I always cheer depictions of black women forming happy, fulfilling relationships with men who are not black. It’s purely selfish–I’m tired of the dirty looks and the assumptions from women of color that he’s with me simply because I’m not as “strong” (read: not bitchy and less likely to call him out on his bullshit) as a black woman would be, or because he hates being black and prefers being with a white woman because he is in denial, a la Tiger Woods, about being black. Nothing could be further from the truth but it doesn’t stop people from making assumptions. I understand and appreciate the desire to keep the black community going strong but I am not a threat simply because I fell in love with a man who is black, and he happened to fall in love with me too.
/rant
Sorry about the rant.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:38 pm ¶
JenBen wrote:
But there is no option for “I had no particular long-term emotional investment in either of these characters until I saw them make out. Then I thought it was pretty hot.”
Not being much of a Star Trek fan in the past, I really enjoyed the film but had zero idea about what was “correct” cannon-wise other than the very obvious stuff (Y’know, Vulcans have no emotions, Kirk’s a bit of a douche, that sort of thing). I vaguely remember some carping about Uhura being “too assertive” (or whatever) because in the show she’d been desk-bound (if this is wrong, please don’t kill me, Trekkies). I thought she was a fantastic character, hope she gets far more screen time in the next film.
Posted 19 Jan 2010 at 11:53 pm ¶
c wrote:
I hope the Spock/Uhura romance continues. I would be very disappointed to see her just quit Spock and go with Kirk. It would be so shallow.
But the issue of race is an interesting one that Star Trek can explore more in the future. The Vulcans generally consider themselves superior to humans so how would other Vulcans react to the relationship? Especially now that there are so few? Perhaps they would be like the ultra-orthodox Jews after The Holocaust who felt that it was especially important for Jews to marry and have families with other Jews and NOT with those outside the faith.
One last note, that photo is beautiful. No couple could be more lovely than Zachary Quinto and Zoe Saldana. Thank you!
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 12:40 am ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ JenBen
That question felt more in line with my next quiz.
This one was more Uhura-centric, focusing on “Uhura-bashing”, which people claim they aren’t doing. They complain “Uhura kissed Spock” but never phrase it the other way around. They talk about her aggression, her inappropriate this and that, her not being good enough, etc. and state these as valid reasons for the relationship being “just wrong.” However, everything that is “wrong” about this relationship–to them–all leads back to Uhura.
Now, if the writers and directors are listed as being “just wrong”, in their opinion, then Zachary Quinto gets all their sympathy for having been “violated.” They talk about his supposed discomfort in the kissing scenes, how he was “molested” or “date-raped”, thereby intentionally or unintentionally invoking the “dangerous Negro” stereotype.
Of course, there’s no such sympathy for Zoe Saldana. In fact, people who offer up these particular arguments, using strictly the actors’ real names, don’t even mention Saldana. If they must, they call her Uhura. Uhura is all they can see, and she represents everything that’s wrong in the movie to them. Not the genocide of six billion people, or the deaths of thousands of young soldiers in the film, or the emotional death scenes of two main characters’ parents–no, no…Uhura kissing Spock is all that matters.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 3:17 am ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ #17 by Persia
By the way…if you read the post and it’s follow-up, I explain how Spock was intended for Uhura originally, and I provide links to show the infamous “hints” from TOS.
Chapel and Spock had zero chemistry. He rejected her repeatedly throughout the show and whichever films she was in. She focused too much on his humanity.
The Uhura/Scotty relationship which came later was actually “out of nowhere” and both actors expressed their surprise. People don’t pay much attention to this relationship 1) it’s unfounded, explored, and rather boring, and 2) no one gets mad because Scotty is considered far less important than Spock
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 3:44 am ¶
vera wrote:
To whomever had this in their post:
Why do black women constantly look to the media to feel valididated?
Gee, you talked to every black woman in the world to come to that conclusion? It never hurts to use the word *some*. I guess I forgot all black people think alike and know each other.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 7:49 am ¶
Stuart wrote:
I thought it was a great movie, and it never even occurred to me that this could be a problem for anyone. Kirk and Uhura kissed in 1968!
I figured any debate would be about Kirck/Uhura vs Spock/Uhura…
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 10:53 am ¶
Persia wrote:
JenBen: I’d say Uhura was less desk-bound than most American female characters of her time– especially African-American ones– but that meant she was pretty desk-bound.
Ankhesen Mié: I didn’t know there was a follow-up! I’ll have to check it out. I do know the ‘historical’ background behind Spock and Uhura and never liked Spock/Chapel much, but after years in fandom, I know shipping choices boil down to lots more than simply race.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 11:02 am ¶
Celeste wrote:
@ Billy: I’ve heard that interracial porn is popular with white men because they can pretend to be the well-endowed big black guy ravishing the white lady. Kind of like Avatar but with black men.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 11:57 am ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ Stuart
Exactly! And in 1968 it created a mostly POSITIVE stir. Nichelle Nichols has talked about how white men who disapproved of race mixing even wrote into the show to voice the approval of the kiss once it aired.
In my follow-up post to the quiz, I specifically mention how bizarre that an interracial kiss in a 2009 Star Trek film–of all films–has caused this big of a NEGATIVE stir.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 2:16 pm ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ BillytheKid
Would a black women of different skintone identify with Saldana? Yes. In fact, when POC are underrepresented in the film, we instinctively bond with the few people of color in said film. Also, we know that if a significant number of whites dislike something like the S/U kiss, POC brace for the backlash because we ALL get targeted afterward eventually–tone range and even ethnic group becomes irrelevant. Notice how the S/U kiss revived the wrath against Cho Chang in Harry Potter.
And about the Cho/Union relationship; I’m with Shemari. Gabrielle Union plays a criminal defense lawyer. She’s attractive, and she’s in a relationship. In the few episodes aired so far, we get to see her be sassy, funny, sexual, tender, and grieving. That’s incredibly balanced and fleshed out for a black female character–very rare. In fact, other than Zoe Washburne from “Firefly”, I cannot recall such effort on the part of writer’s to give a well-rounded portrayal of a respectable black woman.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 3:25 pm ¶
JenBen wrote:
@Ankhesen Mié That’s quite an amazing analysis (that she was being aggressive etc) since that scene at the end is clearly one of comfort and sadness. Who knew people could get so furious about… no, wait, I knew people could get furious about this stuff, it’s just that as you say, it’s amazing that it’s a row happening in 2009 and over a movie where actually horrifying things happen.
Posted 20 Jan 2010 at 8:20 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>I thought it was a great movie, and it never even occurred to me that this could be a problem for anyone. Kirk and Uhura kissed in 1968!
Plot note (I guess something 42 years old doesn’t need spoiler space): It wasn’t consentual. That “kiss” was forced on the characters by an alien who had them captive. I think that was actually explored in the comments of the original LJ post.
SOOOOO…. you have the network and the still-racist media and the still-racist audience approving of the kiss becuase it was bold and titillating…. and meant absolutely nothing.
Somehow those same people who wrote in and approved probably wouldn’t have approved so much had it been consentual and had there been a relationship, as in the 2009 ST Reboot.
It’s completely not contradictory to have a mostly white male audience who is excited to SEE an interracial het kiss, but doesn’t want to think of an interracial relationship where, you know, you have to treat the minority as a PERSON.
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 2:03 am ¶
HoneyPower wrote:
As a fan of the original series, I’ll always find it odd when Spock engages in such egregious displays of affection period. Spock may have his poignant
moments but to me, he is still an emotionally constipated half-breed Vulcan.
On the topic of Uhura, I do recall one particular doppelganger/alternate universe type of episode in the first season where evil Sulu voraciously pursues
Uhura and comes within centimeters of kissing her. In perhaps the best acting by Nichelle Nichols, Uhura has an “I am woman, hear me roar” moment and seduces
evil Sulu only to fight off his advances to gain the upper hand. Uhura is presented as a strong and capable, but undeniably sexual female.
The original Star Trek explored deep space, but never set out to explore racial/gender issues. But there are shining moments like this episode where Uhura’s
brand of femininity is vital to the plot. I’m not saying the original Star Trek is the paradigm of racial and gender harmony, but this episode first aired in
1967, more than 40 years ago. You’d think by now audiences would be acclimated to the image of a black woman actively seeking out a romantic interest in the
form of a non-black partner and vice versa.
The reason I bring up this episode and not the infamous Kirk/Uhura kiss episode is because Kirk’s character can be seen as a metaphor for the potency of
white male sexual power. In Kirk’s presence, all women-folk mysteriously lose their agency and ability to think rationally, including Uhura. But Uhura’s
opponent in this scene is the sexually predatory mirror-image Sulu (evil-Sulu sheds light on normal Sulu’s asexuality while also questioning his assumed
status as a straight man, but that’s an entire discussion in itself). Uhura’s character has so much potential as an empowering female figure, it is a shame
that her character will always be overshadowed by the Kirk/Spock dynamic if they intend to pair her off with one of these two in the next movies.
It is also a shame that people, namely females in the fandom, have expressed disdain over this pairing. As a white woman, I encourage the prospect of Uhura being
the main object of desire for the men of the Starship Enterprise; but this might be due to my tendency to view films voyeuristically rather than vicariously.
Just as an afterthought, I think it would be interesting if Sulu and Uhura had kissed and how mainstream audiences would have reacted in 1967.
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 4:45 am ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ Lyonside
Excellent point with the 1968 kiss.
What is your take on the reaction to the 2009 kiss?
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 8:30 am ¶
Iggles wrote:
I loved the 2009 movie. I think I am in a Star Trek bubble though.
Every since it came out I’ve been reading Spock/Uhura fics on FanFiction.net. There are tons of fans there and last I checked the S/U group have the biggest numbers of subscribers. Our biggest rivals are Kirk/Spock fans, mostly from TOS, who are angry about the S/U pairing.
As some of you might know, fan stories about Kirk and Spock coined the term “slash”, which are romantic stories about two male characters in a fandom (femslash is often used for two female characters). Kirk/Spock fans are the largest ’shipper group in the Star Trek (the original series) fandom. They have most stories of any trek pairing. Though I think most of the new fans from the 2009 movie are Spock/Uhura fans.
There have been some tension on the message boards and some spoilers but S/U fans don’t buy into it. By spoilers I mean, for example, more than once I’ve seen a K/S fan write a story labeled as S/U where Spock breaks up with Uhura and falls for Kirk. We tend to ignore such stories (by giving it few reviews) and keep it moving, lol.
Anyway, I definitely agree any hate on Spock/Uhura because of her race is similar to the backlash Cho Chang got in Harry Potter. Luckily, since most of Star Trek men happen to men I think the backlash of some white women will not torpedo this pairing in sequels.
What’s interesting to me from a fan fiction perspective, is that while you cannot tell the race of most writer most 1) happen to be women (including most slash writers), and 2) happen to be white. So most of the folks writing S/U fan fic stories are white women. I know this to be true, because more than one readers had to remind the author that Uhura would not visibly blush.. LOL!
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 11:56 am ¶
Lola wrote:
“The original Star Trek explored deep space, but never set out to explore racial/gender issues. But there are shining moments like this episode where Uhura’s”
I think TOS did try to explore racial issues with Spock as the stand in for racial Other.
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 12:09 pm ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
@ Iggles
You make some really good points. Granted, S/U fans vastly number outnumber Uhura-bashers. And non-Trek people are probably wondering why anyone would care. The things is, “Uhura-bashers” (and no doubt “Cho Chang-bashers”) go the consciously and subconsciously racist route. Once they do that it becomes a social problem, thus sending the whole “Star Trek” part to the back burner. And a social problem is everybody’s problem, whether we like or care to admit it or not.
@ Lola
I concur whole-heartedly.
People seem to conveniently forget that many TOS episodes were commentaries on race in America; Spock and other aliens were used to stand in for POC. Which is ironic, considering #5 on my quiz. You have white female “Uhura-bashers” feeling possessive and protective of Spock, and rejecting Uhura as being “Other”, when Spock himself in fact is an intended representative of “Otherness.” He provides often negative criticism of humanity; more importantly, he would be critical of people who think like Uhura bashers.
See how the quiz gets you?
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 12:54 pm ¶
supremelurker wrote:
@ 64 HoneyPower and 67 Lola
Spock is a direct allegory for the biracial experience according to Nichelle Nichols’s autobiography. Now Roddenberry & Co.’s interpretation of that experience is another discussion, lol.
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 12:59 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
@ Ankhesen Mie – I confess to being somewhat in a bubble too, as an equal-opportunity fandom type (I will read and tolerate a lot, if it’s well-written and believable – I have no OTPs, or rather, none that aren’t completely breakable for the right author or artist). I’m more disappointed at the controversy, and the authors I follow respect Uhura as a character, and in many cases have done her character right. And really, a lot of them have converted from K/S slashers to the Kirk/McCoy pairing, in partial deference, perhaps, to a general approval for Uhura and Spock.
Fanfiction.net is evil – you have dig through too much misogyny and just bad writing to find the good fan-created works. Which is why I stick to LJ communities and who my favorite authors recommend and friend.
I took the kiss in the movie to not necessarily be a first anything, except maybe the first PUBLIC expression of affection. In the beginning when Uhuru insists on being on the ship appropriate to her skill level (and not-coincidently Spock’s ship), Spock says that he was trying to avoid the appearance of favoritism. That whole scene read to me as someone fighting for an existing relationship, not someone pining for a crush. It can’t just be student-teacher at that point – as short-staffed as they are, there have to be a plethora of students and former-students on the ship. It’s personal.
If people can’t or won’t see that, that plays right into the biases you laid out.
I do believe the relationship was thrown into the film because the producers and studios can’t concieve of a mainstream sci-fi adventure film without SOME het pairing. It’s a credit to Saldana and Quinto that they sold it so convincingly, given the sincere lack of background. I mean, hell, you don’t even see them walking the academy grounds together, and I was convinced this was not a sudden thing.
But of course they stopped there, didn’t even give us a Yoeman Rand or Number One. Which means the whole enterprise (pun intended) becomes the epitomy of suffering from, as one early fanvid put it, “Too Many Dicks On The Dance Floor.”
Posted 21 Jan 2010 at 3:47 pm ¶
Iggles wrote:
Lyonside – It’s good to hear from another ST fan fic reader!
FanFiction.net can be hit or miss. However, I’ve been able to find some really great stories. Usually within the first few chapters I can assess how good the writing is. I skip over the ones with elementary writing — that really bugs me: bad grammar, incorrect spelling, simple plot, poor characterization etc.
I agree with you on the other points too. Though I for one was happy that Chapel wasn’t in the movie. She was an annoying character in the series. But bring back Rand and I think T’Pring will make an appearance in one of the sequel. Hollywood loves complications and triangles..
Posted 22 Jan 2010 at 4:50 pm ¶
Prose wrote:
I did feel that U/S was outside what I would have expected. I have not watched all of TOS, but I have watched a fair share, and I did miss out on U/S being depicted. In many of the episodes they don’t interact at all and Uhura receives next to no screen time (indicative of the racism and sexism of the times). So while your point about the relationship never being explored makes sense, wouldn’t it make sense for there to be a lot more scenes with implied sexual tension, like there is for K/S (aka backrub scene)? In episodes from TOS that I saw (although looking at the link you provided to the interview with Nichols, that’s obviously not the case), Kirk was depicted as the #1 (and possibly only, other than his mom) person Spock cares about. That’s what threw me off about S/U.
I’m tremendously happy Uhura didn’t end up with Kirk, but that would have made more sense to me based on the character, because Kirk’s a little more romantically inclined. Problem is, of course, that he has a new sweetheart every week.
In response to the disgusting “molestation” post that you link to in the LJ post, it overlooks that the relationship was OBVIOUSLY being built up to, if not already existing, throughout the movie. And it’s not “creepy” for someone to kiss another person when comforting them, especially in the context of the relationship.
“I do believe the relationship was thrown into the film because the producers and studios can’t concieve of a mainstream sci-fi adventure film without SOME het pairing.”
Abrams has actually said that part of his decision in pairing S/U was to throw off slashers, lol.
I guess that my feelings about S/U overall is:
1) it surprised me when I was watching the movie
but
2) the movieverse is its own thing, and I’m not opposed to the pairing in any case, even though I’m more for Spork (in the world of TOS) myself.
Posted 23 Jan 2010 at 1:47 pm ¶
K wrote:
I heard so many people talking about how “wrong” it was, but yet no one complained about VULCAN BEING DESTROYED BY ROMULANS, which didn’t happen anywhere else, either. Uhura is offensive to people because, as a character, she is intelligent and generally better than the boys, which you can’t be, espcially if you aren’t white. Zoe Saldana is beautiful as well, which is also threatening in its own way.
I’m white. I went as Uhura for Halloween, and my SO as Kirk (Spock was sold out at the Star Trek Exhibit). I’m mortified by how many stupid, racist people stopped me and asked where my “blackface” was, and why I chose the Uhura costume rather than the generic “Star Trek Lady” costume. Interestingly enough, no one asked SO why he was Kirk.
Posted 25 Jan 2010 at 9:38 pm ¶
Ankhesen Mié wrote:
By the way, guys, in response to a popular demand, I created another quiz, this time for people who do support this couple, because believe it or not…they’ve got some issues too:
http://ankhesen-mie.livejournal.com/24071.html
Posted 28 Jan 2010 at 12:43 pm ¶