Open Thread: The Princess and the Frog

by Latoya Peterson


Nadra and Andrea are still working on their response/conversation about the Princess & the Frog, but we have received requests for a conversation.  Consider this open thread a place holder.

Some things of note:

  • Jeff Yang and I had a long (think two hours) conversation about the Princess and the Frog, the nature of Princess, media versus non black media, and all kinds of other topics.  A few snippets of the discussion made it into Jeff’s Asian Pop column for the San Francisco Chronicle.  But what stood out to Jeff the most upon viewing the film wasn’t racial politics.  It was conservatism, which he writes about a bit on his blog:
  • During the five-year runup to the movie’s ultimate release, conservative critics have regularly lambasted the project as an exercise in political correctness and knee-jerk, quota-driven multiculturalism. Well, the film’s here—and as much as I enjoyed watching it, I have a sneaking suspicion that far from being rejected by the Right, the movie’s going to end up as a GOP cause celebre.

    I don’t want to give away any spoilers, because this is a film that really should be watched through eyes sparkling with innocent wonder. But the way the movie’s key themes and plot points map out to Republican talking points is really pretty stunning.
  • Tiana is a bootstrapping entrepreneur who refuses to ask for charity, preferring to work two jobs to make her small-business dreams come true.
  • She castigates those who rely on others for welfare, and only changes her ruggedly individualist outlook when she’s pointedly reminded of the importance of having a family—and finding a suitable partner in life.
  • There’s an amazing Messiah-metaphor moment that the Christian Right will swoon over—a moment that I will not ruin by describing, for those of you who prefer to ignore literary/political subtext. (Let’s just say that for the savvy, the name given to a particular heavenly entity in the film should be a dog-whistle foreshadowing of what happens at the film’s climax.)
  • And here’s the kicker. The primary bad guy in the picture is a thin, jug-eared, light-skinned black man of mysterious origins who practices an “exotic” religion, manipulates reality to suit his ambitions, hides his true nature behind a charming and verbose exterior, and literally bleeds the elite to lift up the underclass. Furthermore, in the exercise of his villainy, he manages to run up a debt of cosmic proportions—a deficit he decides he can’t repay without, uh, stealing from the rich. Cue the horrific teabagger parodies now.
  • Pia dropped us an email to let us know that Allison Samuels was on Newsweek using The Princess and the Frog as a way to advocate that black women need to date interracially:
  • Since the 1960s, marriages between black men and white women have been steadily increasing—14 percent of all black men are now married outside the race. Yet only 4 percent of black women do the same. Why? Black women, for better or worse, have always seemed to maintain a loyalty to the ideal of the black family unit. That’s understandable, even noble, but it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when so many black men don’t feel the same way. Combined with the disturbing number of black men in prison, that means 47 percent of all African-American women today never marry. With those numbers, I say it’s time for many black women to start thinking, and acting, like Tiana.

    Oy. I’m not even touching that, especially after I saw what happened with the whole Zahara’s hair debacle.

    Finally, an incident that Elizabeth Hasselbeck (of all people, I know) shared on The View reminds us of just how far we are from a “post-racial” reality:

    Hasselbeck talked about the fact that her daughter’s favorite doll at the moment is Tiana, on The View yesterday. She said her daughter plays with the doll’s hair, sleeps with it and carries it around everywhere she goes. It’s nice that Hasselbeck and other non-Black parents like her don’t make a big deal out of it because essentially, children don’t see color—but she admitted that she got funny looks one day when she and her daughter plus Tiana ran errands in New York City.

    Hasselbeck said that some of the looks she got were pleasant and approving, but every now and then she got looks that were reproachful. She expressed that maybe she was thinking too hard about it but Whoopi Goldberg confirmed that she probably wasn’t (this is why I love Whoopi). Whoopi G. and also Sherri Shepherd told Hasselbeck in a nice way, “Welcome to our world.”

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    1. ARP Links: Princess Tiana edition | Love Isn't Enough - on raising a family in a colorstruck world on 22 Dec 2009 at 8:39 am

      [...] Racialicious columnists Nadra and Andrea are working on a review of “The Princess and the Frog,” which we will crosspost here. In the meantime, check out the Racialicious open thread on the movie. It includes several observations on the Disney flick, including one  from Jeff Yang: Jeff Yang and I had a long (think two hours) conversation about the Princess and the Frog, the nature of Princess, media versus non black media, and all kinds of other topics.  A few snippets of the discussion made it into Jeff’s Asian Pop column for the San Francisco Chronicle.  But what stood out to Jeff the most upon viewing the film wasn’t racial politics.  It was conservatism… Read more… [...]

    Comments

    1. GENQ10 wrote:

      Who says that Tiana’s prince wasn’t black? He looked black to me.

    2. Latoya Peterson wrote:

      @GENQ10 – He’s intentionally ambiguous, from a made up land, but most signs (including the actor who portrays him and the use of language in the movie) points to him being coded Latino.

    3. Rawles wrote:

      I really enjoy this fake!history: http://halcyonjazz.livejournal.com/313914.html?style=mine wherein Maldonia is an alternate universe version of Algeria.

      (The comments also ferret out that some of his catchphrases are a made-up language and some of them are Italian.)

    4. samosamancer wrote:

      Isn’t the prince’s name Naveen? That’s very much a South Asian name. That was the first thing I thought when I saw him–I haven’t seen the film yet, though, so I haven’t seen how he’s “portrayed.”

    5. Jha wrote:

      Oh, Naveen sure as hell ain’t black. I don’t even understand the whole “Maldonia is a mix between Malta and Macedonia” thing. That’s weak. Nonetheless, the movie DOES have a trumpet-playing alligator, and good voodoo witch and a bad voodoo dude (Christianizing! We have missed you so!), and singing fireflies, and a very neat and clean damned mythical 1920s New Orleans. Obviously, since this is a kids’ movie (naw, really? a bit of the humour is adult-oriented), there can be no outright conversations about race or class. It was a bit disappointing, but there are hints of it, which kids will get once they grow older.

      I liked the neat tying-in of Ray’s cajun background with the Evangeline story. I wasn’t happy when I first saw him in trailers. Like, srsly? Another animal sidekick? Why? But his was a good arc.

      I don’t get that “castigates others who live on welfare” – I’ve seen the movie twice and I haven’t seen that, except for one line I can think of. Tiana works the way she does because no one will give her handouts. But it is SO TRUE that there is coupledom propaganda in this movie! Disney has always been on that conservative bandwagon in that way. I find it’s offset by Naveen choosing to put aside his male entitlement to help Tiana achieve her dreams on her own terms. How many boys learn to do that?

      Not pleased with Tiana’s father not there after the first five minutes. I’d seen the first five minutes before and I was SO excited that both her parents were in the picture. Unfortunately, Disney had to go for the “Single Parent Syndrome” route AGAIN, and a single black mother, to boot. Disney’s record has usually been missing mothers, but I would really rather have not had any missing parent.

      Couple of reviews up already. I have a LOT of good things to say about it, myself. Despite its flaws, it’s still a good film – solid storytelling, good soundtrack, strong characterization. Compared to past Disney princesses, Tiana is a marked improvement.

    6. A.D. Nix wrote:

      All I know about the film thus far is that I’ve seen two big billboards, one en route to JFK the other coming from an airport in another city, neither featuring a brown face of any kind, rather the dentally-challenged firefly with a wide grin.

      It took me a second to even realize what film was being “advertised.”

      I’m really look forward to seeing how it turned out – especially after reading Jeff’s take. Good golly.

    7. Lady Di wrote:

      Jeff Yang’s criticism on the film was not too far off. The film does have a surrounding theme of capitalism. Tiana did carry the bootstrap mentality of hardworking and obtaining your goals. However, with that mentality that they wanted young children to carry, it still contradicted their purpose. In the midst of her obtaining her goal and saving money, she still was unable to reach her goal just from her hardwork. The film did not touch on racism blantanly but it implied it after she was rejected from getting the place she wanted for her restaurant. She eventually got her restaurant but it was not just from her hardwork it was from help from others including the trumpet playing alligator and Prince Neveen.

      @ LaToya Peterson I agree with you that I would not touch that Allison Samuels quote for right now. That lady has been on my side-eye list for quite some time.

    8. 123 wrote:

      While I think it’s good for young girls that there is a Black Disney princess, I think it’s ridiculous that Disney of all fictional story producers couldn’t create a Black male love interest for Tiana. They created a same race love interest for all of their White princesses, their Asian princess, their Arab princess, and even their White mermaid. Why is it that they couldn’t have created one for Tiana?

      Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with interracial relationships, but I see this as an unnecessarily wasted opportunity to show a loving Black couple to millions of people. Maybe I’m watching too much TV and/or I’m just paranoid, but I’m seeing fewer and fewer positive depictions of Black couples on TV (or in print, for that matter). When there is a couple shown that involves a Black person, 9 times out of 10 it’s a Black male with a non-Black female or a female who is obviously mixed.

      I’ve only seen three positive depictions of a Black couple/family in the past three months: a Black family in a WalMart Christmas commercial, a Black couple in a Walmart/Target commercial, and a young Black couple in a toothpaste commercial.

      When it comes to Blacks, I see far more IR couples in the media than same race couples. It’s the complete opposite when it comes to Whites, Latinos/Hispanics, and Asians. Most depictions of their couplings show them with members of the same race. Again, I DON’T have a problem with interracial relationships. I DO, however, have a problem with frequency in which it’s promoted in the Black community as compared to other communities.

    9. Val wrote:

      It really isn’t a big deal that the Prince isn’t African American unless you compare this film to the other Princess films. Then one might ask why the other Princesses had a Price that looked like them and Tiara does not.

      And in light of how the MSM treats Black characters in film I think it’s a valid question.

      Regarding Ms. Samuels; Seeing this film and then using it as a way to talk about Black women needing to date inter-racially is par for the course when it comes to her. She is such a hack!

      I don’t have a problem with IR dating. I do have a problem with people promoting it to Black women because we are supposed to be so lonely and desperate.

      Well Said@123

    10. octopod wrote:

      Naveen? Coded Latino? Er…what?

      That said, I haven’t seen the movie, but I’m glad there is at least a good vodou priestess to go along with the bad vodou priest. Progress? Maybe?

    11. Antonio wrote:

      I saw the Princess and the Frog yesterday and enjoyed it despite a few problems.

      Ray got on my nerves. He just wasn’t interesting, funny, or compelling.

      The white characters weren’t very admirable. Charlotte was a spoiled blonde bimbo who was handed everything in life by her father, who we see eating most of the time. The prince’s assistant backstabs him. There are the snooty brothers who deny Tiana her loan. And then there were those backwoods hicks she ran into as a frog.

      I’m probably in the minority here, but I didn’t care for the music. None of the songs were nearly as catchy as Lion King or Aladdin.

    12. Jha wrote:

      octopod: Don’t get your hopes up too high ^_~ She’s awesome, yes, but she’s very clearly Christianized.

      Antonio: The soundtrack is fun only with the movie. Both times I came out of the theatre, I definitely wasn’t humming any of the songs. They’re just not memorable that way. Nonetheless, the soundtrack backs up the movie.

      None of the white characters got a whole lot of airtime, and I think a bit of development and interaction between Charlotte and Tiana would have been nice. Charlotte’s hilariously annoying (and you can tell she’s made that way on purpose), but come through for Tiana in the end, which hints that through the years, they’ve somehow managed to maintain a friendly connection. Still, none of the white characters get a lot of airtime which is pretty neat, to me. It is so nice to see a movie which takes focus away from white people.

      The Fenner brothers screwing over Tiana at the beginning was definitely deliberate, and Disney’s ONLY illustration of racial (and class) discrimination faced by Tiana. After that, it’s classism between Naveen and Tiana.

    13. Jha wrote:

      Also, I have to take umbrage to this interpretation:

      There’s an amazing Messiah-metaphor moment that the Christian Right will swoon over—a moment that I will not ruin by describing, for those of you who prefer to ignore literary/political subtext. (Let’s just say that for the savvy, the name given to a particular heavenly entity in the film should be a dog-whistle foreshadowing of what happens at the film’s climax

      This is in reference to Ray’s “love interest”, the Evening Star, that he calls Evangeline. Evangeline doesn’t refer to evangelical Christianity, but to the poem, Evangeline, a Tale of Acadie. It’s a cultural tidbit thrown in to reflect Ray’s Cajun / Acadian heritage.

    14. kendra wrote:

      I paid attention to how long Tiana was human. For a movie that lasted for about an hour and 28 minutes, she was a human for less than 18 minutes of the film. And she wasn’t in every scene during those 18 minutes, so it’s more like 14 or less.

      The main antagonist had relatively light skin and blue eyes, so that adds to the whole exotic appeal of him being a practitioner of evil “magic.” The idea that there is cost to his use of deadly arts seems consistent with other such explanations in shows like Blood Ties.

      I think the only thing which surprised me was Naveen’s willfill sacrifice of male entitlement. I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen that in a Disney film before, unless the man was giving the woman away to another man. Tiana’s entrepenuerial spirit was a nice change, as was Mulan’s kickass-ness. Unfortunately the usual trade-off is the inevitable coupledom.

      Not even gonna touch that ish on interracial coupling. To be honest, the prince should have been black as the prince should have been Native in Pocahantas. You don’t have enough depictions of love within the communities. Hell, some most certainly lack balanced depictions in mainstream media.

      I hated they killed off Tiana’s father. So stereotypical. They’d think all black kids are raised by mom alone. While that is my reality, it wouldn’t hurt to depict a “traditional” family. Hhmm, why couldn’t it have been a single father as is Disney tradition (unless death befalls the father via an evil stepmother)? Belle, Snow White (until daddy death), Cinderella (until daddy death), Ariel, Pocahantas, Jasmine had their mothers die and were thus raised by fathers. There are more single fathers than two parents raising daughters. The trend is curious, in a man giving a woman to another man kind of way. Something more most likely. And poor Lilo, is she not a Disney princess (and a more modern one at that)? Her sister raised her.

      The racism/classism (depending on how you interpret one particular scene concerning “background”) was so subtle it was unreal. We’re in the fucking 1920s. The “red summer” 1920s. They probably didn’t depict an African princess (pre-slavery) b/c they thought “didn’t we do the Lion King?”

    15. Jeff Yang wrote:

      @Latoya—

      Wish I’d been able to add even half of what we talked about to my Chronicle piece! As it is, they lopped about 500 words from my screed…I keep trying to convince them that there’s no additional cost in pixels when I run long, but whatevs.

      @123: Regarding interracial relationship depictions on TV and film—I could swear you have it almost exactly the reverse.

      There seems to be no prudishness barrier to depicting Latino + non-Latino relationships whatsoever (how many rom-coms have Jennifer Lopez/Eva Mendes/Penelope Cruz et al. been in where their partner was a fellow Latino? Very few). The same is nearly true with Asian + non-Asian, though there’s a sharp gender divide here—if in a relationship, Asian men are almost always depicted with an Asian woman, but Asian women are freely depicted in relationships with non-Asian men. In both cases, the interracial nature of the relationship usually doesn’t require commentary; it’s simply a matter of choice on the part of the partners.

      I think there’s a much greater tacit taboo in showing black + non-black interracial couples, in that even today, these relationships require textual mention (e.g., they can’t simply “just be a couple” — there’s formal acknowledgment that it’s an interracial relationship, even if that acknowledgement is a beat of surprise or a raised eybrow).

      @Jha: Hey, you should use spoiler tags. :)

      1.) Yes, I’m fully aware of the reference, thus my point about “literary”/political subtext. However, Longfellow’s poem is essentially an *epic* paean to Christian virtue.

      2.) Meanwhile, the recontexting of the source poem’s relationship as being between *literal,* not metaphoric “star-crossed” lovers, making Ray’s aspiration one aimed toward Heaven rather than toward earthly romance — plus the inclusion of a scene that explicitly alludes to Jesus’s Ascension before his disciples — will unquestionably be silver and gold for fundamentalist evangelicals.

      Especially since the sacrifice of Ray — Ray (of Light), an emanation of the Divine Light made mortal, to which Ray eventually returns after his death and resurrection — is in the context of defeating a tempter-figure clearly positioned as the story’s analog for Satan

      Fair enough?

    16. Latoya Peterson wrote:

      @Jeff Yang -

      Ha, you know you wanted to add in our discussion of NKOTB vs. Immature. And Word Up vs. Tiger Beat.

      Hmm, now that I think about it, that might make a good blog post…

    17. Shauna G wrote:

      I’ve seen The Princess and the Frog three times now and I really enjoyed it. I know considering the time they set it in it doesn’t really touch on racial situations much, but it was there a bit, very subtle. Young Tiana and her mother sit on the back of the trolley (which has a few white characters towards the front) on their way home from the grand mansions to their little wooden houses. Then of course the line “A little woman of…your background would’ve had her hands full” while mostly classicist, can be considered racial, too.

      Being a Disney movie I wasn’t expecting much in terms of race. They didn’t really set out to make a black princess when they decided to make another 2D animated fairy tale. It was originally going to be yet another white girl, who lived in the twenties, with a European prince. They then decided to change the girl to black, since it’s New Orleans, and the prince soon changed after.

      I’m just pleased that for once there’s a theatrical animated movie that stars an African-American female character, and she’s a hard worker with a kind heart, and not a sassy lil stereotype. The movie is just another feel good fairytale movie, and the starring of people of color doesn’t lead it to be just a discussion of racism.

    18. phatgirl50 wrote:

      Okay, I have seen the movie twice. In the movie Tiana is hard working and very sensible. She keeps her wits about her when all around her is out of whack! Hmm sounds to me like Disney got this one right.

      We see a literate, fully functioning young African American woman who demands to be taken seriously because she has been taught that hard work has it’s worth and the end result are the fruits of her labor. Success. Are these attributes of hard work and saving for a brighter future white attributes? I don’t think so. Are these Republican attributes? I don’t think so.

      What we have here is a failure to communicate that African Americans have raised generation after generation of people that live a lifestyle of self sufficiency. I think it is a poor commentary when a cartoon has to express what the African American community and the wider community at large knows to be true about the African Americans in this country.

    19. Irene M. wrote:

      The week before the Princess & the Frog came out I sat down and watched all of the “princess movies” that I loved as a child. So, Cinderella, Little Mermaid, Aladdin (not a princess movie per se), and Beauty & the Beast. What really struck me at the end of the week, is Tiana’s character and how she fits into the princess canon.

      Of the movies I watched, there seemed to be two types of princesses. The early princesses are virtuous and hard working, but they are mind-blowingly passive. Cinderella, for example, just seems to accept her fate. She doesn’t like how she’s treated, but she doesn’t seem to do much of anything besides her work. The second type of princesses come later and, while their more active, there is a certain unreality to their characters. Belle, Jasmine, and Ariel are smothered teenagers who want to escape their lives, but don’t want much else.

      *Spoiler Alert*

      Tiana, on the other hand, has something that I consider rather special. She has elements of other princess characters. For example, her continuous hard work and virtue reminds me of Cinderella. And, like Ariel and Jasmine, she struggles with her life and enjoys a bit of adventure. What’s different about Tiana, in my opinion, is that she is the only Disney princess who has created a life worth living long before any Prince shows up. This is not someone who complains about her life while awaiting something to magically change. Tiana actually goes out, works two jobs, and works hard to support her dreams. At the same time, she has a loving relationship with her mother (probably the only living & loving mother in Disney) that sustains her and keeps her grounded. And this is before any of her adventures.

      Overall, Tiana is by far the most developed, fleshed out, and successful Disney princess. She’s also the only I’d want my daughters to emulate.

    20. karak wrote:

      What I loved about this movie is this: who is the hero?

      Tiana is not rescued by anyone, unless you want to count the alligator that “rescues” her restaurant by threatening the Fenner brothers (and I liked this part because it showed what Tiana needed was human love and companionship, not romantic love, which is what I think Mama Oda was trying to tell her).

      Tiana is, in fact, the driving force behind the movie, from getting them moving to see Mama Oda, to destroying the evil amulet, to how hard she works. Without her work, rocks would have fallen and everyone would have died. Lottie, Big Daddy, and Naveen would have all died without her.

      I’d argue, though, she’s not the real hero of the movie. That would be Ray, who sacrificed himself for strangers, strangers who almost ATE him.

    21. karak wrote:

      I’d like to add something: Naveen is of African descent. In the wedding scene you see his parents, and they’re clearly of African descent. Naveen is black, he’s just mixed-race, or a very light black.

    22. Jha wrote:

      Jeff @ 15: I have trouble with that reasoning, because Ray sees Evangeline as a firefly, and his attitude, to me, seems quite worldly! That he appears next to Evangeline sits in the same context as New Orleans actually being able to house a trumpet-playing alligator (i.e., completely bizarre and mythical).

      Also, I said nothing about what happened to Ray, you did! ;D I’ve been trying very hard to talk about his love for Evangeline without explicitly talking about what happens to him.

      You might be right and conservatives would love it, if they could get past Tiana’s skin colour. Personally, the Christianizing of the two magical characters bothered me a lot.

    23. n wrote:

      @kendra
      “. Hhmm, why couldn’t it have been a single father as is Disney tradition (unless death befalls the father via an evil stepmother)? Belle, Snow White (until daddy death), Cinderella (until daddy death), Ariel, Pocahantas, Jasmine had their mothers die and were thus raised by fathers. There are more single fathers than two parents raising daughters. The trend is curious, in a man giving a woman to another man kind of way. Something more most likely. And poor Lilo, is she not a Disney princess (and a more modern one at that)? Her sister raised her.”

      From what I have read they kill the mothers because nothing is sadder than a motherless girl/child. In a way a girl with a father and no mother is an orphan, but it eliminates the need to have her TRULY orphaned. And since she has no mother she gets to be independent and feisty and plucky. This makes room for her magical helpers who fulfill the motherly role.

    24. April wrote:

      Sounds like Newsweek has put out yet another dumbass article.

      The “Republican talking points” that are outlined are interesting, because they illustrate just how much overlap there is between white conservatives who would cry “PC” toward this film and black people who heartily agree with Booker T. Washington’s principles yet would identify themselves as Democrats or liberals. I believe many more blacks might align themselves with modern-day conservatives and Republicans, if the latter group didn’t keep screwing up with regard to race.

    25. Calvin wrote:

      I haven’t seen the film yet, but my cousin told me that Disney “cheated.” He said that they were frogs the entire movie… you only got to see the actual characters in the beginning and end.

    26. Myapapaya wrote:

      I saw the Princess and the Frog the day it came out and I speaking as a film student I agree @Irene M. interpretation, you cannot analyze the subtext of a Disney movie without taking into account its place within the Disney canon.

      That is not to say that there is no socio-politico subtext but, I would bet you dollars to donuts that the first thing on the writers’ (who are all white dudes, I think) minds was how to revolutionize the Disney Princess genre and make it new.

      Also I thought that the Fenner Brother’s denying Tiana was more of a deus ex machina, based in sexism, and class than race. While racism existed in 1920’s New Orleans Disney is not exactly known for its historical veracity.

    27. eric daniels wrote:

      I think I will stick with watching anime and foriegn cartoons instead of this typcial P.C. American dreck, Disney movies have always gotten on my nerves with their right- wing agenda so I was not surprised when this movie would have the same elements. “The Princess and the Frog” is just right-wing colorblindness run amuck to sell to another generation of kiddies. I was not surprised that the love interest Tiana was going to be “multicultural” and not black, so I didn’t get why some black people went nuts when the saw the promo pictures.

      Disney wanted “The Princess and the Frog” to appeal to the widest auidence possible and having a black Prince would make it just a typical “black movie” with very little chance at a crossover auidence. I am about had it professional media race huslters like Allision Sammuels who through her racial/gender war angst looks at best an average cartoon as some poltical agenda to promote IR amongst SO-CALLED lonely Black Women in the United States.

      I HOPE ONE DAY A FAMOUS WHITE WOMAN WOULD PROMOTE IR MARRIAGES FOR BLACK MEN in the United States lololol

    28. urban Suburbinite wrote:

      Re: racism in New Orleans

      [What I am about to type is anecdotal, and only one persons experience. Take from it what you wish.]

      My grandmother is from New Orleans, and is nearly 90 years old. Me and my sister asked her about how she dealt with segregation, a couple years ago. She looked at us like we were crazy, then she explained that she never attended a school that was segregated. This was from late 1920’s thru 1930’s. She said that Black, Creole, French, White, Native American, Cajun, Mexican (Yep, there were Mexican people in NOLA way back when.) all went to school together. The teachers still taught in french, in the elementary school she attended.

      She said that New Orleans wasn’t like any other place in the U.S., and that she didn’t experience blatant racism until she went “up the country” (to northern LA). She has also often said that Cajun people were quite poor and lived deep in the bayou, but that they’d give the shirt off their back to help you. (I haven’t seen this movie yet, but it seems that they show this with the Ray character.)

      The Institute for New Orleans History at Gwynedd Mercy College describes New Orleans this way:

      “A rare American city that started off with various ethnic groups for the most part getting along had become like most American cities in the 50s and 60s with racial tensions that occasionally broke out into riots.”

      http://www.gmc.edu/library/neworleans/NOhistory.htm

      After graduating nursing school, my grandmother moved from New Orleans to Connecticut in 1945, to work for the Uconn Medical Center. Maybe she missed the change in New Orleans, or maybe she lived in a particularly insulated enclave that was more inclusive than other parts of New Orleans.

      I say all of this to say, that maybe they set the film in 1920’s New Orleans, so that they could play down the racism aspect.

      On another tangential subject; why can’t Prince Naveen be coded as Caribbean/West Indian? He looks and sounds like a mix of guys I’ve met from Trinidad, Martinique, and Dominica. Plus Caribbean immigrants and their descendants have been present for over 100 years in New Orleans.

    29. Minotaar wrote:

      Hasslebeck getting funny looks in New York City? I don’t think it it was the disney doll!

    30. Jha wrote:

      n: Yeah, motherlessness is a huge fairytale trope. Apparently, the mother figure blocks the female character’s growth into a woman (the stepmother character in Snow White was originally her actual biological mother) because of envy, thus the female character has to get out into the world anyway, to bring her fertility to a new household (whereas male characters usually return home with a bride).

      I think it would have been really awesome if BOTH Tiana’s parents had made it through the entire movie.

      eric daniels: You do realize that for most of the world, Disney movies ARE foreign, right? *snerk*

      urban Suburbinite @ 28: That sounds really interesting, actually! And if it’s more than just an anecdote, could really account for the lack of rampant racism in the movie.

    31. GeeLennox wrote:

      Racially I think Prince Naveen is South Asian. I’m not 100% sure but his mother wears something that resembles a Sari in the film.

    32. RCHOUDH wrote:

      I’d like to see this movie (though not in theaters but through my sister’s Netflix queue). However I realize race is an unspoken issue in this movie. I think Tiana’s characterization as a hard working independent woman is supposed to reflect the feminist ideals that modern day America represents, which is why she is given more agency in how she runs her life than past princesses. I also think Tiana’s prince is purposefully kept racially ambiguous in order to keep viewers guessing. It’s interesting that he hails from a country across the Atlantic (which some people guess is located in North Africa), has an Asian Indian name, and is brown skinned (leading people to think he’s either North African, Indian, or Latino). On top of that his “language” includes at least on Italian phrase which makes others insist on him being Southern European/Mediterranean!
      With that said, I agree with the posters who expressed disappointment in the fact that a loving black couple relationship wasn’t brought forth by Disney. I find it interesting that now Disney has had three IR relationships (Pocahontas/John Smith, Esmerelda/Phoebus, and now Tiana/Naveen) with all the women being WOC. When will POC men get a chance to be princes in IR relationships (I realize Naveen could be interpreted as being a POC but I feel his identity is too ambiguous for me to consider him as being that). I heard that after this movie, Disney will again return to showing white fairy tale couples with its next feature being Rapunzel. So there goes any chance of seeing POC princes I guess for now.

    33. Katie wrote:

      Naveen is part of the African diaspora, very clearly. African genetics are–quite literally–all over the world. Tiana made one of the best princesses I’ve ever seen. I agree with the person who said she’s about the only Disney princess I would want my child to grow up to be like, with a little of Belle’s bookishness and Mulan’s kick-ass-ness and honoring-of-parents thrown in. That is all.

    34. Jeff Yang wrote:

      @Latoya: That was in the part my editor cut out! He noted that, as you did, the Different World-ness of black adolescent experience and white adolescent experience (and for that matter, Asian and Latino) is really its own discrete piece. And hell, I’m sure we could have talked about that stuff for hours. I’m still amazed you know who Super Junior are. :)

      @Jha: Putting on my Lit 101 hat — ah, those were the days:

      Of course, there’s nothing particularly carnal about Ray’s attraction to Evangeline — it falls into the category of aesthetic platonism, more or less, right? A wholly nonsexual, even nonsensual adoration that’s essentially a parallel to devotion to God?

      The fact that he thinks Evangeline is a firefly doesn’t necessarily make his desire “earthly”; to probably give Disney’s writers too much credit, his love for Evangeline is for her Spenserian “Heavenly Beauty”:

      Beginning then below, with th’easie vew
      Of this base world, subiect to fleshly eye,
      From thence to mount aloft, by order dew,
      To contemplation of th’immortall sky

      That sort of thing. Eh, now I feel compelled to write a paper or something…

    35. Jha wrote:

      Jeff: My major is totally English and I love litcrit, but I can’t ever help but think that the whole “sublime love” thing was a whole lot of hokey in the first place………….. (you can tell I was never impressed by them, yea? ^_^)

      However, I do dare you to write an academic paper linking the Ray/Evangeline OTP to the sublime love tradition.

    36. phal wrote:

      Just a quick nitpick on the Naveen debate. I thought it was made pretty clear in the movie that wherever Maldonia was, it was francophone. The prince is rocking a pepe le pew style french accent and translates Raymond’s french lyrics for Tiana’s benefit.

      Which would make parts of Africa, the Middle East, the Carribean, Asia, South America, North America (looking at you Quebec) and Europe all possible sites for Maldonia. I also think it’s important from Disney’s and Tiana’s standpoint, that Naveen is part of the french diaspora because it gives him a connection to creole New Orleans and gives them a certain amount of common cultural background.

      None of this answers the is it or isn’t it interracial debate, but I think it’s valid to consider the prince, with his french diasporic background and his love of jazz, as culturally allied with Tiana and with New Orleans.

    37. Sam wrote:

      Francophone? Maldonia?

      Has anyone thought that Naveen is supposed to be from Mauritius?

    38. octogalore wrote:

      What an awesome discussion of the movie! This is about the only place I’ve seen such nuanced coverage of race, politics, etc… kudos. Essential reading.

      Agree totally with April re #24 on “how much overlap there is between white conservatives who would cry “PC” toward this film and black people who heartily agree with Booker T. Washington’s principles yet would identify themselves as Democrats or liberals. I believe many more blacks might align themselves with modern-day conservatives and Republicans, if the latter group didn’t keep screwing up with regard to race.” YES.

      Also agree that Tiana is one of the only Disney heroines (Mulan is another) who is complete without a man.

      Jeff’s points are great and I’m surprised (or maybe not) that the MSM seems to have missed them.

      I’m not sure I agree with “She castigates those who rely on others for welfare, and only changes her ruggedly individualist outlook when she’s pointedly reminded of the importance of having a family—and finding a suitable partner in life.”

      First, Tiana didn’t castigate anyone for relying on welfare, but castigated people for partying and spending money and expecting handouts. She never said anything suggesting a lack of support for safety nets.

      Also, I don’t think her rugged individualism changes when she falls in love; she simply realizes that the two can coexist. While she teams with Naveen in opening the restaurant, I don’t think this was presented as the only way she would ever have been able to achieve her goals.

      The discussion about IR relationships is interesting. My initial perspective was that I didn’t see a problem, but I think what 123 says in #8 makes a lot of sense.

      Another perspective is that sometimes, to me, it seems that Hollywood only allows black protagonists to be with other black protagonists for more than a few episodes. eg, Friends with Aisha Tyler. I also was turned off by the Pelican Brief movie — whereas in the book, the Denzel Washington character has a romantic relationship with the Julia Roberts character, the movie backs off from that, which struck me as cowardly. So with that backdrop, to me it seems like the racial selection of Tiana’s mate is a “can’t win” — either the producers are refusing to portray a positive depiction of a black couple, or they are refusing to allow a black princess to be with someone of another race.

      All that said, 123’s point that Disney created a same-race love interest for the other princesses is a good one.

    39. octogalore wrote:

      RCHOUD@32: “When will POC men get a chance to be princes in IR relationships”

      Princesses Jasmine and Mulan had same-race POC princes, Shang and Aladdin respectively.

    40. Kenny wrote:

      Naveen is not Black for the same reason the prince in Cinderella with Brandy wasn’t.Black males are not often portrayed as the guy who gets the girl and saves the day, let’s be honest about when stereotyping is masked with being multi cultural.