“Successful, Black and Lonely”
By Special Correspondent Nadra Kareem
Who am I praying finds love? In recent weeks, a white woman, a black woman, a Korean-American woman and a Chicana have all made the cut. You wouldn’t know that from reading “Successful, black and lonely,” though. This Washington Post article profiles Helena Andrews and her new book about single black women, “Bitch Is the New Black.” Reading the article, I felt underwhelmed and somewhat irritated, as the piece tells the familiar tale of black women with MBAs and designer clothes who just can’t find a man. Move over tragic mulatto myth, you’ve been replaced by the myth of the tragic black women who’s professionally successful but is doomed to grow old alone.
Believe me, I’ve read the grim statistics about black women and marriage. We are the group least likely to marry. But I’ve also read the New York Times report about how the United States now includes more single-headed households than ever. Loneliness is a problem that transcends racial groups, but for some reason, there’ve been a slew of articles in recent years that peg black women as especially lonely.
If the black community includes more singles than other groups, isn’t this because the community tends to be harder hit by all social “ills?” Take the economy. Americans are suffering across the board, but the unemployment rate for black Americans is twice that of white Americans. As a black newspaper publisher I know says, “If white folks got a cold, black folks got the flu.”
By not considering this phenomenon when reporting on marriage, the media ends up perpetuating stereotypes about black women and men, alike. Black women are bossy and intimidating. Black men need to get it together.
“Andrews writes about what it is like for a young, black woman dating in D.C., trying to find a mate who seems ever elusive,” states Post reporter DeNeen L. Brown. “The futile rituals are familiar: the dressing up, the eager cab ride over to the party, the hold-your-breath as you walk in, scanning the room quickly for any looks returned. …Then one by one, the men prove to be disappointments and disappointing: married, uninteresting or uninterested. …Andrews writes the truth of those nights. The truth is for too many, they never work out.”
Andrews is included among the women for whom matters of the heart “never work out,” but she’s not yet 30. Isn’t there ample time for her to work things out with somebody? Brown quotes her discussing a guy she calls “Cornrows.” The nickname says a lot considering that Brown has already described Andrews as having a perfectly coiffed bob. We know then that this is an awkward match, and Andrews does, too. She regards Cornrows as a potential winter fling but nothing more. Andrews, however, does applaud him for being able to speak in “coherent sentences.” See how this makes black women and men look as if they’re on completely different footing?
Andrews’ book, which will be made into a movie, originated from a blog she and a friend planned to launch about “why black women can’t find a man.” I’ve read so many articles that promote this idea, I can’t count them. They’ve become one big blur. The problem I have is that, while black women do face barriers in the search for love, not all of us are alone. The black woman with an advanced degree and a high-powered job? I know her, and she’s married. I n fact, I know more than one of her. I also know more than one pair of black college sweethearts who went on to tie the knot, the black girl who went to an HBCU but dropped out and married the guy who fathered her two kids. I know single black women, too, but the married black women I know actually outnumber the single ones.
But so prevalent is the idea that black women can’t find a man because they’re too aggressive that an Asian American woman I know actually repeated this stereotype verbatim to me. I was astonished, not only because I found the statement racist and sexist but because she’d completely overlooked her own singleness. And that’s exactly my problem with these types of articles. I can’t recall ever reading an article about lonely Asian women or lonely Latinas. But these women exist, too.
By painting black women as lonely and desperate, these articles reinforce the very stereotypes that create obstacles for black women in the dating scene. Black women are undesirable, demanding and overbearing, they suggest. Think I’m wrong? The Post article ends by pointing out that Andrews considers herself “ a mean girl,” unfazed when a colleague explains that people don’t say hi to her because she’s a bitch.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Eva wrote:
Why do these articles imply that the only way for someone to be happy is in a “traditional” marriage?
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 12:53 pm ¶
KD wrote:
I’ve seen tons of articles on this (both among poor Blacks and middle/upper class Blacks), but can’t piece together why this was again in the upper class. What are the statistical reasons?
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 12:58 pm ¶
Danielle wrote:
I see “bossy and intimidating” as Strong-willed and Confident. Nothin’ wrong with that!
White women should take this as a lesson. (This is coming from a white woman.) Marriage is over-rated anyway. I was raised in a single-parent household, as were many of my friends. With the divorce rate what it is, and more and more women getting their Master’s, who needs to be in a relationship??
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 1:00 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Eva –
This is Nadra’s version. Wendi’s writing one, and I am writing one as well, Andrea may do a quick response, and I believe we also have Kelvin weighing in from a black male perspective. I think we all have different ideas on what it means to be happy.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 1:38 pm ¶
Eva wrote:
@Latoya:
No, I wasn’t being nasty, or picking on this article. But if a person thinks that only one thing can equal happiness, they’re missing the boat. I used to think that traditional marriage equaled happiness, but when I was about 45, I realized that I was happier without being in a traditional relationship than when I was in one. But yes, there are many ways to be happy.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 2:19 pm ¶
Slush wrote:
Rumor has it that there are a lot more women than men in the Washington area. Don’t know if that is true across all races.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 2:21 pm ¶
bertie wrote:
In all fairness to the article, its not the article implying that marriage is the only route to hapiness–its the subject of the article, Ms. Andrews, explicitly stating that she is unhappy being single.
Also, if you read the entire article, Ms. Andrews doesn’t do herself any favors. She proclaims herself to be mean (not really a trait highly sought after in mates); dates men she admits she is not attracted to; makes fun of the men she dates; doesn’t want anyone nice, etc.
Other than having a degree and a job, she really doesn’t demonstrate (or even bother to state) any reason why someone would want to be in a relationship with her. Is she empathetic? loyal? passioante? thoughful? romantic? compassionate? silly? Who knows–she nor the article bothered to say what makes her a catch other than she is black, has a degree and a job. The whole article kinda smacks of I’m owed a mate because I am a self sufficient graduate school educated, professional adult. But we all know in reality, all that entitles you to are student loans and a higher tax bracket.
The issues she brings up are real enough, she just seems like a poor conduit to discuss them.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 2:24 pm ¶
Dana wrote:
I read the Washington Post article and I was thoroughly disgusted.
‘Winter boo’, srsly?
As an African American woman who has several advanced degrees, I married a man who these woman would not have given the time of day. In fact, I will take it step further and say I know women like these women. Not only do I know them, but these women in my life actively campaigned for me not to marry my husband (who did not have a University or College education, expensive clothes or even owned a house when we met). Luckily, our relationship survived the onslaught and two years later, my husband is an honor student in University and more devoted to me and our marriage than I could have ever hoped for because he knows that when we met, I saw past the superficial and decided to invest in a relationship with him based entirely on the potential I saw in his character and not the kind of car he drove of the clothes he wore. Sure, I made sacrifices, I’m currently finishing graduate school, working full time and supporting his education, but we are head over heels in love and I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.
The women in this article need to get a clue. I will not be reading her book or watching her movie. If she represents the majority of black women out there who are single, I now have a complete understanding of why the statistics are as they are.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 2:39 pm ¶
Val wrote:
The problem these type articles is that so many Black women believe this stuff. And if Black women believe they are lonely and can’t find a suitable mate then some go on to make that prophecy come true.
But, this is nothing new. The majority media has always painted a negative picture of Blackness. Today however we have ways to counter this propaganda in the form of our own media with blogs, etc.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 2:45 pm ¶
lunanoire wrote:
Are there any studies about social grouping out there? During discussions like this, I often hear about some people who are in stable relationships and have tons of friends, relatives, coworkers, neighbors, etc. who are also in stable relationships. Other people chime in and say that nobody they know is in a committed relationship. Does anyone have any ideas about how this self-selecting plays out? Is it that like tends to attract like? For example, couples outings where uncoupled people are not invited or welcome?
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 3:28 pm ¶
Bagelsan wrote:
I see “bossy and intimidating” as Strong-willed and Confident. Nothin’ wrong with that!
White women should take this as a lesson.
…I thought we decided that women of various races were all fairly equally kind/bitchy/confident/etc. but different traits get played up for different races in pop culture? Unless that was a Tiger Woods joke, or something. :p
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 3:29 pm ¶
racedwhitedyke wrote:
I agree with eva here. Though i don’t disagree with the argument here– it is pretty ridiculous to race a thing like loneliness– but unpacking this phenomenon is a pretty intersting place to talk about queering the family, romantic relationships, and raced bodies. because yes, some professional black women are married, but why are we so afraid of black women living “single” lives? because, we could talk about these marriage stats, these mulittudes of unmarried black women as an imagined possibility of lives lived outside a married family life. Look at the picture here– these black women are hanging out, talking about this, right? so they’re together, making spaces that could be thought of as, well, not lonely.
so i think another intersting question would be not why don’t we talk about everyone as lonely, but rather what is the discourse of the lonely professional black woman doing to prevent certain spaces from being made and utilized?
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 3:35 pm ¶
Golden Silence wrote:
I see “bossy and intimidating” as “bossy and intimidating.” I don’t know why the subject in the WaPo article thinks being nasty is cool.
I will read the book because I can relate to being Black and single in the DC area (and from my experience, it’s not easy to find a date), but the similarities end there. I don’t think being unnecessarily rude is cool, I am not looking for a “winter boo” (add “—ty call” to the end and that’s what it really means), and unlike what I got from the article, I don’t limit myself to only Black men. I’m looking for something deeper, and the race of my future boyfriend doesn’t matter.
I think if the author changed her ways a little, maybe things would be easier for her.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 3:52 pm ¶
laura wrote:
This is nothing new. I remember an article in Time or Newsweek in the 90s that said a black woman over 30 had a better chance of being killed in a terrorist attack than getting married. I’m staring 50 down so I guess I have a better chance of having Osama bin Laden knock on my door, introduce himself and beat me to death.
What bothers me about all these articles is the implication that all black women have to do is be nicer and lower their expectations and they too will find love. We’re supposed to look beyond the surface and accept men for who they are not who they appear to be. But then we’re told that who WE are isn’t good enough.
The facts are that many more black women pursue higher education and climb the executive ladder. If a woman is busting her ass in school or at work most of her time is spent with very few (or no) black men. After a long day working there’s just no time to go to the club. Do I even have to mention that any black men a high powered sister encounters is probably married, usually to a white woman?
There’s no permanent man in my life and that’s okay. Loneliness is a reality but I’m lucky because I find myself great company most of the time. Devoting a lot of time trying to hunt down a man is time I don’t have. So if he comes around, great. If he doesn’t, okay.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 3:57 pm ¶
Nadra wrote:
Lunanoire, to some extent, people who are in couples tend to prefer the company of others who are coupled up, and singles tend to prefer the company of other singles. I’ve been in a relationship with my significant other for two years. Both he and I have single and coupled up friends. However, sometimes my single friends don’t feel comfortable hanging out with us (even in groups) because they feel like they, too, need a mate just to hang out with us, despite my efforts not to make them feel like the fifth wheel. Also, “Sex and the City” had an episode where married women were threatened by single women because they thought the single chicks would go after their husbands.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 4:05 pm ¶
Eva wrote:
@Dana
Great point! You are very right about that. Although I don’t think it’s always good to marry a man based on his “potential” (there has to be something concrete and I’m sure in your case there was), a wise woman once told me that it was better to marry a man who really loved YOU than marry a man who YOU LOVED. Make sense? Don’t know.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 5:01 pm ¶
andrea wrote:
I would really like to see (or participate) in a discussion of the pressures on women of color to marry, couple up, “find love” etc. (hetero-sexually or otherwise). While there has always been the socially imposed threat of “spinsterhood” for White women, the social view of women of color who don’t marry (or have children) is more complex.
How many of us, Latina, Black, A/PI, immigrant, indigenous, or slave descendant, have internalized some form of culturally-specific idea of womanhood that involves some form of marriage-type pairing and child rearing? At the same time, many of us struggle against these ideas where they connote racialized pathology, i.e., teen motherhood or marrying (or staying in a bad relationship) for economic survival?
I would love to see a model for how women of color successfully negotiate our cultural and political ideals in our relationships with love and independence (as if those weren’t mutually conflicting ideas). I’m finding incredible resources in fiction and non-fiction by feminists of color – Temple of My Familiar by Alice walker, for example, is an amazing (if slightly dated) example.
I am going to read Andrew’s book, if only to understand how it is that a beautiful, educated, 20-something Black woman comes to understand herself and her peers as outliers in their ability to find a mate. Maybe by understanding where these pressures – and ideas of “success” and “failure” – relating to love and mating come from and are perpetuated, we can start to tackle them more effectively, both personally and as part of a larger feminist of color project.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 5:40 pm ¶
Katie wrote:
There is a reason that this woman was chosen by the article to represent all black women. I don’ t think the correctness or wrongness of her personal life path is really the point. It’s that her story is one that the paper and the journalist are trying to paint as many black women’s story. The question of why that should be is really more interesting, I think….
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 5:48 pm ¶
Banna wrote:
I guess I have issues with the “black woman ain’t married” articles because they don’t talk much about black women that are in relationships. To me “single” and “married” are too narrow. My parents were together for about 20 years and didn’t get married. They just weren’t interested in getting married. I know other people that have chosen this route and their relationships are lasting much longer than some marriages.
And what about black lesbians? Where do they figure in this “married” or “unmarried” category?
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 6:42 pm ¶
usha wrote:
Dana, it sounds like you and your husband have a lot between you, and I am happy for your happiness.
I’m not looking for someone to take care of all of my needs and render my income extraneous.
I am not saying for certain that there is no un-college educated, under-employed man out there with whom I could be richly happy, and I hope if that person crossed my path, I’d be able to see his inherent worth (I am not single),
but, I don’t think I am snobby, unreasonable, or unrealistic in preferring, and selecting for, men with a similar educational background and job status as my own.
I don’t want to ‘put words in your post’; it does seem like your advice is that we should all not even ask for the ~very reasonable~ things that we want, or reconcile ourselves to being alone?
I don’t just want ‘any’ guy, or even ‘any guy that treats me well’. I want things from a relationship that are legitimate and reasonable to want, and one of those things is that I am not required to disproportionately carry the burdens.
Frankly, if that’s my only option, I WOULD rather be alone. I have a great life, with or without a guy.
I am also troubled that it seems to be WOC who are often told not to have high expectations, sometimes to the degree that society seems to be saying that in spite of your status and accomplishments, you’re a ’stuck up bitch’ if you think you deserve the same status signifiers to which your white counterpart would be entitled (I realize that Dana is not implying this).
But, I’m with someone great, and I don’t expect that to change, and it’s easy for me to look at this cool-ly and theoretically.
Perhaps I would feel differently if I were single.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 7:29 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:
These articles always leave a bad taste in my mouth after reading them. I hate the assumption they make that all successful Black women are searching desperately for a husband. It completely ignores those that make a conscious choice to stay single (as well as those in un-traditional relationships, or who are lesbians).
And seriously, that whole “Winter Boo” story is just …wow. Applauding him for at least being “able to speak in coherent sentences?” Really? WTF? It’s tacky as hell when men do things like this, and it’s just as tacky when we do it. Personally, I’m hoping Cornrows wised up at some point and dumped her ass.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 7:30 pm ¶
SAL wrote:
I joked with my husband that I feel like a freak because we’re both black (I’m from a hippie background and my husband is from hardworking Midwestern stock–talk about opposites attract. But we actually have lots in common because we’re both people who march to a different drummer) and happily married. I remember being single, in my early 20s and then again in my mid-30s and remembering how much I hated sitting around with “I got a degree but no man” girlfriends. Not to generalize, but a lot of these women were really a drag. One (well, OK, me) wishes HA would take the money and use it to travel, take yoga classes, discover what makes her tick, etc. I’d love to read an Eat, Pray, Love type book (it was shallow, but more my cup of tea then yet another retread of the bitter sister theme) by a sister. I know if I got a fat book deal, I’d be hopping a plane and getting as far away from yet another tired bitch session with my girls. Life’s too short!!
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 7:39 pm ¶
Westerly wrote:
Between this and MSM completely being out of step with the AA community regarding the whole Tiger drama, this just emphasises the need for and importance of alternative media.
I really don’t want to hear what white owned, run and dominated media outlets *think* are of concern to AAs.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 8:48 pm ¶
vera wrote:
Not every man who has *nothing* or working his way up is a gem. I hear so many times for black women to “lower” their standards when it comes to finding a man. It seems some people feel that these men have hearts of gold and black women are stupid for bypassing them. But I can say not all of these men are marriage material either, I am just saying not all blue-collar, lower income men are great, same as not all white-collar men are catches either. I just get tired of hearing that black women have to *settle* or lower their standards because these men are so abundant. Or some woman talking about the man she got who had nothing but he worked his way up – NOT everyone has this experience – it might have worked for you, but that is not the case for everyone. Honestly, love does not pay the rent, most marriage end because of finanacial issues. And there is no guarantee that the man with *potential* will make it – or what if he makes it and dumps you because he has made it? I see NOTHING wrong with a woman wanting to find a man on her level financially. Black women seem to be the onlyrace of women who are criticized or discouraged for wanting better things in life, like we do not deserve it.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 9:35 pm ¶
April wrote:
I saw that article in the Washington Post and thought, “This? Again?” I’m so over this nonsense, and I wasn’t surprised that Helena Andrews is also a contributor to The Root, that compendium of nonsense pretending to be a “thought-provoking” site devoted to black issues. I work in journalism myself, but I’d have to agree with Nadra and Westerly that the MSM won’t hesitate to run with the narrative of the supposedly successful but lonely black woman. Part 1 of CNN’s “Black in America” also devoted a segment to this so-called dilemma; the “cure” presented for it was…(drumroll, please)…dating outside the race! I have little respect for any writer or journalist who trots out this same tired story. I wonder if Helena Andrews is even aware that she is playing the role of Sapphire.
Oh, by the way, @Laura: I believe that article you’re referring to is actually the one from Newsweek in 1986 that claimed women over 40 (of any race or ethnicity) were more likely to be killed by a terrorist than they were to marry. The magazine retracted that claim a few years ago: http://www.newsweek.com/id/52295
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 9:44 pm ¶
Umm....wut wrote:
If I limited myself to Ivy league or elite liberal arts school black women, I’d be a lonely man.
- elite liberal arts school black male.
Seriously though, these articles fail to point out that there are scores of college and university educated black men out there. They are these women’s classmates, and they are the peers who passed over these women. Speaking as one of those brothers who passed over some educated sisters during college, I can honestly say it wasn’t because of their “strength,” but rather the lack there of. It is painfully obvious that those women were wearing a mask to cover up some issues they were working through, just like half of everybody else in college (regardless if race or whatever else). There’s nothing racially specific about that. What is racially specific is the idea that education and a succesful life would make someone LESS desirable. I have heard of professional women having some issues with this, but i don’t think we can overlook the underlying language of racial authenticity that makes it plausible for an educated black woman to not have single educated black men to choose from. Put another way, popular beliefs about black males make it easy for us to believe that there are very few if them with education and even fewer who aren’t trying to be players. There’s also the everpresent married/already taken crop of them who some other woman has gotten to first (which seems to be a common complaint for all women). Perhaps that’s legit but it shouldn’t be raced.
Another thing that always struck me in these debates is the way black marriage and single parent household statistics are trotted out. It seems like no one points out that if a majority of black children are raised by single mothers, then it is those single mothers who are raising these “good for nothing” black men, or who aren’t raising enough good educated black men. Thus of course would be a facile line of reasoning for it’s shallowness alone. That’s why I like this post so much because it made the point that black communities tend to be more affected by social trends than other communities. Context is key in all if this and it has finally been properly established.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 9:46 pm ¶
Ree wrote:
I thought this article was very disappointing. I have been married, happily for 9 years (surprise, we’re black. like most of my married friends.). I think part of the reason my husband and I are together is because I would never treat him with the lack of respect Helena Andrews (and other women, I see it all the time) seems to have for the men she chooses to date. And I would never accept such a lack of respect. I had never heard of a “winter boo” until I read this article and I just thought, gee, if the tables were turned and men treated me as a “winter boo”, that would be our last season together. I couldn’t be bothered.
And the fact that she says her co-workers don’t speak to because they think she is a bitch should be a clue. What the heck is wrong with being nice?
I think her being lonely has little to do with being sucessful educated or black.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 11:43 pm ¶
Selena wrote:
“What bothers me about all these articles is the implication that all black women have to do is be nicer and lower their expectations and they too will find love. We’re supposed to look beyond the surface and accept men for who they are not who they appear to be. But then we’re told that who WE are isn’t good enough.”
Well said Laura! Not only are we TOLD, we are SHOWED and SHOWED again and again.
Posted 15 Dec 2009 at 11:54 pm ¶
TMA wrote:
@SAL: I totally agree with you about not wanting to participate in a group session bemoaning the plight of the lonely, successful Black woman. It’s much more fun and productive to do something that you enjoy or would help facilitate your life becoming what you want it to look like.
As a 34-year-old, never married, childless Black woman who does want to find a partner, get married, and have a child (maybe two?) at some point, I am soooo tired of the meme put forward in the article about Andrews. Oh, and those discussed in The Root articles that were referenced in the OP.
I think society in general has a warped view of what it means to be “successful”. Is one successful because they managed to obtain an undergraduate and/or graduate degrees and a (not necessarily) well-paying job? (Not to mention an accompanying chunk of debt for the majority of those who hold advanced degrees.) Or is one successful when they have managed to become, through effort and introspection, a fully realized human being/adult who truly understands who they are, what they like/dislike, what their passion is, where their talents lie, and what they want out of life? Because, as I see it, the latter makes it much more likely that one will find the kind of relationship (and marriage, if that’s what you desire) that Andrews and her friends say they are seeking. I truly believe this is true regardless of one’s gender, race, ethnicity, or class.
I also think part of the problem is the idea (put forth by Andrews and folks I know in real life) that finding a relationship/life-partner/mate/potential spouse is an item to be checked off a list. IMHO, looking for someone that fits your resume or vitae is usually not the best way to find a person who is a good match for you. It does seems like a good way to find someone who fits an image or a societal ideal…a person who’s “good on paper” but not necessarily good to or for you.
I have spent the majority of my adulthood and dating years in cities with sizeable populations of Black people (Atlanta, DC, and New York, specifically, Brooklyn). And I have never found myself lacking for dates or relationships. Over 90% of the people I have been involved with were Black men. Now, not all of these dates and relationships were the best. I learned a lot about life and love, and over time (mainly by my late 20s/early 30s) realized that the quality of my relationships was directly proportional to the kinds of people I was seeking out/entertaining/engaging. More importantly, the more comfortable I became with myself (appearance/fitness level, career choices and trajectory, acceptance of my very essence), the better my choices in dates and relationships.
While I do recognize that there are definitely systemic and societal problems that affect the marriage rates of Black women/between Black men and women (directly related to slavery, Jim Crow, and systemic racism), I know that there are “good Black men” (I really dislike that term) who are out there and want to date, be partnered with, love, and marry Black women.
More and more, I think the MSM is feeding Black women (as well as Black men, and society at large) a crock of BS concerning this topic. I think the meme being pushed is not true because of my personal experiences and th0se of my peers (many married and engaged, educated Black women largely marrying and getting engaged to Black men). Unfortunately, many Black folks are absorbing, accepting, and (even worse) promoting and perpetuating these ideas (looking at The Root). I reject the notion that because of my age, gender, and educational achievements I will never be married. I hope more Black women and men begin to reject these ideas and focus more on becoming the kind of people and partners that defy this tired, tired meme.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 12:04 am ¶
justme wrote:
I hate articles like this that blow things out of proportion and try to generate hysteria. However, the article highlights a couple of issues. In order to better understand black relationships, you have to examine social, traditional roles in the community, the type of man/woman that is considered to be ideal. Then’ll you’ll understand why dating can be hard for successful black. women
Not to over-generalize but hetero relationships in the black community tend to push traditional gender roles as a result of culture/religion. As such a number of black men tend to be socially conservative and want to be the man of the house, the provider with the women playing the support role. Even if you’re both working, the woman is also supposed to be in charge on the household/be able to throw down in the kitchen etc. If you’re a woman unwilling to play that role, it’s not hard to see why one might be picky about choosing partners.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 12:43 am ¶
octogalore wrote:
@Eva and Latoya — I don’t think the OP author is saying that happiness derives only from traditional marriage, but simply that she focuses on trad’l marriage because the book does so, and she’s talking about the book. Her point doesn’t seem, to me, to be that there is no happiness apart from trad’l marriage, but that the book’s thesis — black women can’t find it for particular reasons having to do with their own attitudes or behaviors — is flawed.
Even though there are many other mechanisms for happiness — single life, having a same-sex relationship or marriage, etc. — it is probably true that statistically, across race and class divides, a significant %of people at this moment in time would like a traditional hetero marraige. So it seems fair to focus in on this % and look at whether indeed there are racial distinctions within it. This seems to me what Nadra Kareem is doing.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 1:25 am ¶
reality wrote:
As others have said, I totally agree that this is another attempt (and unfortunately successful) to create and perpetuate a stereotype about a minority group. It’s always an appeal to society’s lowest common denominator and as a result, prevents real discussions about an issue. And worse, it prevents authentic relationships between people who the stereotypes are supposed to represent. It becomes apart of the cultural ideology. We begin to believe that all black men have “baby mamas”, all black women have weaves, black professional women are lonely, etc. Black people have to take responsibility for countering these stereotypes in any form we can.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 2:01 am ¶
thewayoftheid wrote:
For those of you who feel as though you’re being told to lower your standards:
No one’s telling you to do that. But it’s interesting that some of you interpret a suggestion to broaden your horizons as resigning yourself to dating cats in lower income brackets. As I know dudes with masters’ degrees working blue collar gigs, I find this stance fascinating.
There’s nothing wrong with standards. Everyone should have them. But when they’re solely based on accomplishments, you very well may have some difficulty finding your match.
But what do I know? I married the geeky, college-educated black guy who was more into Macs and anime than fly shoes. flashy cars, and pedigree.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 3:07 am ¶
lawegohard wrote:
Wow! You are my new hero for writing this. Well said.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 7:09 am ¶
LBell wrote:
I’m not interested in the WaPo article…I just wanted to co-sign this statement:
“The black woman with an advanced degree and a high-powered job? I know her, and she’s married. I n fact, I know more than one of her. I also know more than one pair of black college sweethearts who went on to tie the knot, the black girl who went to an HBCU but dropped out and married the guy who fathered her two kids. I know single black women, too, but the married black women I know actually outnumber the single ones.”
With one (divorced) exception, all the black women I know who have kids are married. The majority of them are married to black men. The majority of them had kids after they got married, not before. Adding to that is the great blessing that is my parents’ marriage: 45 years and counting.
You realize just how many people believe the pathology when you make statements like this and they look at you like you’re lying. *smh*
I know a fair number of single black women (including myself) and they’re all doing very well, with or without a man. That’s the beauty of living in 21st-century America: It is possible to be single and happy BY CHOICE. Why people still don’t get this is beyond me. Why people still think marriage and children have to be the be-all/end-all for everyone is beyond me.
Also wanted to co-sign this (another reason why I didn’t read the article):
“What bothers me about all these articles is the implication that all black women have to do is be nicer and lower their expectations and they too will find love. We’re supposed to look beyond the surface and accept men for who they are not who they appear to be. But then we’re told that who WE are isn’t good enough.”
Funny how being told and shown on a regular basis that you’re not good enough can make you, oh, I don’t know…a little angry.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 9:35 am ¶
Eva wrote:
@Vera:
“I see NOTHING wrong with a woman wanting to find a man on her level financially. Black women seem to be the onlyrace of women who are criticized or discouraged for wanting better things in life, like we do not deserve it.”
My issue with this is what’s important to you. It used to be important to me to find a man on my level financially but right now, that’s not very important. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to support someone grown but there are other things that are important.
My oldest friend is a college professor who is married to a construction worker who did not finish college. Both of them have similar values and he loves her to pieces. She also has very serious medical conditions that she’s had all her life. When they met, she told him that, and he accepted her. Earlier this year he saved her life when she needed to go to the hospital and he was there.
Here’s my thing. I don’t think anyone is telling WOC to lower standards, just question what this thing called success means. I mean if you marry a man on your financial level, what happens if he loses his job?
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 9:57 am ¶
bdsista wrote:
I read the article and live in the DC area and yes the ratio of BW to BM is pretty high. That being said, other issues in dating here involve commuting, traffic, kids schedules, work schedules. I met a ton o guys that live in NoVa but don’t want to have to drive to Columbia to date me. So my ratio datewise is Baltimore, DC, Annapolis, Frederick and sometimes NoVa.
But it is hard for successful Black women. I am 50 and this weekend one of my friends who just turned 50 said she is about to give up on marriage as now the prospect of having children is now gone.
For all those people who want to talk about why marriage, need to remember that we in our 50s were born inthe late 1950’s and were socialized that a good life was going to college (often the first in your family), getting a good job, marrying, having children and buying a house. Oftimes goals your parents or grandparents strove for.
When I grew up I was told it was impolite to say the word Divorced. My Mother whispered to me in 4th grade that my teacher was divorced and never to say it to anyone. Different times, different social rules.
Everyone wants to be a Bride, the best dress your Barbie had was the wedding dress, we were socialized that after Sweet 16, the only other major event where you were the most beautiful woman and center of attention was your wedding. I remember being in law school and seeing all the White and Jewish women getting engaged with huge rings and arguing with my BM boyfriend who wanted me to get the diamond chip cuz he wanted to buy a car. I didn’t marry him, I married a Japanese/BM who was divorced, who didn’t even blink about the ring and when we married, he got his vintage corvette, his boat, his miata and his golf membership. I got my house and we each kept what we wanted when we divorced. But he understood, that I as a BW wanted the same things my White counterparts had and yes I felt entitled to them because I was as good as them. BW get a lot of “not as good as” messages their whole lives that range from skin color, to hair texture, to weight, to education and job opportunity to day to day niceties and courtesies. Hence the anger and the feeling that if its my day or my relationship or my life then there are things I should be able to control and have a say about.
There are a lot of men in the DC area who are well educated and fit Andrews standards, you just have to be willing to go the age range, date old, date young, and yeah, date the guy who may not be uber successful, but is nice to you and treats you with respect, while you look for Mr. Right.
Andrews does come across in the article as shallow, mean and not very nice. I can be a bitch when I NEED to, but not all the time. Part of being intelligent is knowing your personas and knowing when to turn them off and on. She’s still young, so she can learn (hopefully).
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 11:38 am ¶
deathblossom wrote:
@Eva
Here’s my thing. I don’t think anyone is telling WOC to lower standards, just question what this thing called success means.
Which is a politer way of saying lower your standards. I refuse to date smokers, druggies, or drinkers, not even those who do it casually, and I get told all the time that my standards are too “constrictive” and that their are perfectly wonderful people who smoke or drink and I should give them a chance. And you know, I’m sure there are. A wonderful life to those people. But I *cannot* do it and it is important to me that it be respected. So what if he loses his job? I don’t think the entire emphasis is on that he have that well-paying job, the job is rather a sign that he is an educated male who has gone through what the female considers an acceptable degree of rigorous academia and you will not be dating someone who is beneath you intellectually, which for some people is important and they shouldn’t be asked to make it less important.
If that’s not important to you? That’s great. For you. But it’s annoying for black women who are painted as having gotten that degree because they were trying to meet some societal degree of success rather than fulfilling a personal desire to learn, to be in an environment that supports that learning, and hopefully, to continue to be able to have some intellectual environment. Not to say that those who are not college-educated are dumb and that those who are college-educated are geniuses, but educational level can bring about different thought processes and interests.
But I will say, that I feel part of the issue is that the women themselves are not ready for the gender role reversal. They still want to be the typical female who has a man equal or greater to her in success and are basically seeking to emulate traditional, sexist, heteronormative gender roles in a non-traditional environment and apparently, it’s not working. Thus, I would agree that these women should seek different models of relationship behavior and roles until finding one that better suits their current situation.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 12:01 pm ¶
MsBRG wrote:
Great post. My issue regarding BITNB is tied to the author’s desire to endear, perpetuate, and leverage a negative stereotype that Black women have finally begun moving away from. I posted a blog on Andrews today. Someone needs to let her no that there is nothing new about being a bitch. It’s a tired old cliche that hopefully she will grow out of.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 12:47 pm ¶
LaKeshia Gibson wrote:
I grow weary of the tone of these types of articles…I can’t be the only one who feels manipulated into a false sense of anxiety by the perpetual high-siddity black lonely bitch trend in media nowadays.
“With one (divorced) exception, all the black women I know who have kids are married. The majority of them are married to black men. The majority of them had kids after they got married, not before.”
L Bell
Exactly. There are two women in my family who never married, the rest were married without exception. Education did not play as major a role as this article implies…plus the author just rubs me the wrong way. I do like the questions the whole affair brings up, such as the social and romantic prices of higher education….
But still, the constant exposure to cheap journalism like this makes me want to leave the country on whatever pretext possible as soon as I finally graduate! Urgh.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 7:35 pm ¶
Phil Deeze wrote:
I was born and raised in the DC area. Came back here after college. And, ladies, there were a BUNCH of guys just like me that either came back to the DC area or moved here from other places, and those guys had no problem finding suitable ladies to date. And I rarely heard complaints from the women, really.
If anything, the women that I knew in my early 20’s to late 30’s now are almost all divorced. And not one of them “settled.” Most got what they considered to be the man of their dreams: job on K Street or Wall Street or the Loop, nice house, nice clothes, etc. But the funny thing is that one of my friend married a guy like that with a boatload of money, and he, flat-out, didn’t want to be married. To her. And it took her years of therapy to get over that rejection. It was quite sad.
My wife and female friend have openly said, “Phil, I’m shocked that you didn’t marry a white lady.” When I ask “Why?” They say, “You’re too nice. Too generous.” For some black women, that’s a sign of weakness. I work a high-powered job in finance where weakness will cost you your job. But, somehow, I manage to keep up my fair share of the financial load that we carry as a couple.
Sometimes my wife says she “got the best of both worlds.” I’m nice like a white guy, apparently, but I’m also black. I used to take that as an insult, but I’m just glad we’re making love not war. Why borrow trouble? I’m fat and happy. My wife is happy. Let’s be black and happy together up in this mofo.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 10:08 pm ¶
AnonyMiss wrote:
I feel like there’s both good and bad sides of articles like these. I do think its important that people realize that black women are finding it difficult to find suitable partners. I know not every black woman is single but so many are and I don’t think most are by choice. And among the ones who “choose” to be single… well many make that choice because they don’t think they can find a man who they can have a healthy loving long lasting relationship with. I think its just part of human nature to want to love and be loved.
The main problem with this whole discussion so far is that its so superficial. I think we know that this issue is much deeper than black women having bad attitudes and black men not going to college. Its easier to focus on the surface factors because they are thinks we seemingly have control over. But if we were to get to the root of the problem and look at the history behind this and what role media, laws, and racism has played in this whole thing then we’d realize the problem is even bigger than we’re making it out to be now. When you really sit down and analyze our history and everything that has lead to the current relations between BM and BW, its kind of depressing. I had to do a research project on the state of black marriages and it was really hard for me to do because it just made me feel powerless in the situation. But seriously, marriage isn’t the key to happiness. There are plenty of happy single people and unhappy married people. I do worry about never finding someone to marry but I’m only 19 and I think believing that there is no hope is just setting myself up for failure. It’s not just a race thing either.My generation as a whole seems to be less interested in the whole traditional marriage thing.
Posted 16 Dec 2009 at 11:09 pm ¶
Cinque Powell wrote:
Nice post. I responded to that same article on my blog and I share some of your views.
The thing that really baffled me was how she got a damn book deal and got the movie rights sold before the book was written. That lit a fire under my ass and let me know that I gotta step my hustle up. If a bitchy, lonely, delusional woman can get a damn book deal off a blog complaining why men don’t like her when she’s an obvious bitch, then the game is all effed up.
Posted 18 Dec 2009 at 3:37 pm ¶
Tammi L. Coles wrote:
Cinque, you made me laugh!
The author has a story to tell and for some it sells. She’s not our representative and folks need to stop expecting her to be. She’s young, a self-avowed bitch (no term I care to use) and there are plenty of her out there — white, Asian, Latino/Hispanic, etc. just as there are thoughtful, caring, single-n-looking or can’t-be-bothered others.
That the MSM loves this view of black women is pretty consistent. How many of you can point to well-developed, feminist, powerful women that are celebrated by the MSM and held up as examples to us all?
*chirp* *chirp* go the crickets in the silent hall
Interestingly enough, I was directed to the WaPo article by a fellow ex-pat WOC who wanted to know more specifically why single-n-looking black women don’t do their hunting in another place. I lived in D.C. for 13 years and it’s not an easy city in which to find a partner. That’s not the reason I moved, but I could see it being grounds for others.
Posted 19 Dec 2009 at 12:51 pm ¶
kuriousjurge wrote:
@Deathblossom
“the job is rather a sign that he is an educated male who has gone through what the female considers an acceptable degree of rigorous academia and you will not be dating someone who is beneath you intellectually, which for some people is important and they shouldn’t be asked to make it less important.”
I think you just made the point. Really, a degree doesn’t matter. If you find someone who’s intelligent and funny, but is a painter and never went to college, are gonna to say “goodness you’ve never gone through rigorous academia, i can’t be with u.” The problem is assuming that someone with an MBA, or Ph D is automatically on your level or otherwise.
Your standards as far as the kind of person you want to be with shouldn’t change but this idea of minimums is itself actually a lowering of standards. You’re turning what should be secondary-finances, material achievements, etc- into the primary thing that you look for, instead of how the person makes you feel, if they would make a good husband/father, how they can enrich your life, etc.
Posted 19 Dec 2009 at 11:04 pm ¶
Nicole wrote:
“I can’t recall ever reading an article about lonely Asian women or lonely Latinas. But these women exist, too.”
Im sure they exist but she can only share her experience as a black women. She cant express how asian and latina women feel because she isnt asian or latina. We all have different struggles when it comes to love. Last time i check, asian and latinas are close runner up to white women of what black men prefer.
Posted 21 Dec 2009 at 8:01 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:
kuriousjurge – I think that black women already do that… use academic credentials as a rule with occasional exceptions, as opposed to a law, because, well, they kinda have to. I don’t think black male artists w/o college degrees who read Proust in their free time are hurting for female companionship that often, or are common enough that it would provide a new world of additional options. A lot of folks are blatantly suggesting that these women should settle down with Joe Blow, even if the women value intellect and he’s actually not all that book smart, because he’s willing to settle down and be nice. For some people, that’s just not enough.
Posted 21 Dec 2009 at 10:35 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:
Nicole, I don’t think Asian women and Latinas are all that concerned about or affected by what black men prefer.
Posted 22 Dec 2009 at 2:43 am ¶
nick wrote:
“That the MSM loves this view of black women is pretty consistent. How many of you can point to well-developed, feminist, powerful women that are celebrated by the MSM and held up as examples to us all?
*chirp* *chirp* go the crickets in the silent hall”
Michelle Obama?
Posted 23 Dec 2009 at 4:27 pm ¶
Tiff Sharp wrote:
Nadra,
Thoroughly enjoyed the article. I live in the DC area and although Helena’s article has many fine points (winter boo’s, Friday night disappointments and seeing the same lonely b*itches is common place) as your article highlighted, I am the last of the Mohicans. All of my friends are married and now have children-cross-culturally.
I think what has been noticed is the undue attention that only single black women are getting. My personal theory is that singlehood is a perceived epidemic for women of all races who want to be married however they have something to delineate down to. For example, white women now date black men; Latino women also date black or white men. Asian women date white men and Asian men, well who are they dating? Black women don’t have the same delineations as other groups because of propaganda such as Ms. Andrews’s article. Further, The Washington Post has a nasty habit of manipulating the image of African-Americans and their mating habits (many articles have been written about this same subject in the Post).
Posted 30 Dec 2009 at 10:54 am ¶
Ericka wrote:
i laugh at articles like these…many of these women choose to be single… yes… choose…i have 30 african american friends/associates…who are freshly coming out of college and all getting or have gotten married within the two years of us leaving college and guess what… only 3 out of the 30 have a black husband…. but there are plenty white, latino, and mixed (of everything) husbands… these women are living in a fantasy if they think they will find many college educated, house owning, no kids, professional black men and ONLY date them..thats silly ( more black women graduating college and such), why dont they look for college educated or responsible men period.. your children will still be considered black (its american folks)…so i dont understand the waiting game …
Posted 05 Jan 2010 at 5:36 am ¶