And All The Blacks Are Men, Pt. 301283
by Guest Contributor Shani-O, originally published at PostBourgie
Much is being made of Michael Luo’s piece in yesterday’s New York Times which explains how simply being black often hurts job seekers:
Johnny R. Williams, 30, would appear to be an unlikely person to have to fret about the impact of race on his job search, with companies like JPMorgan Chase and an M.B.A. from the University of Chicago on his résumé.
But after graduating from business school last year and not having much success garnering interviews, he decided to retool his résumé, scrubbing it of any details that might tip off his skin color. His membership, for instance, in the African-American business students association? Deleted.
“If they’re going to X me,” Mr. Williams said, “I’d like to at least get in the door first.”
Similarly, Barry Jabbar Sykes, 37, who has a degree in mathematics from Morehouse College, a historically black college in Atlanta, now uses Barry J. Sykes in his continuing search for an information technology position, even though he has gone by Jabbar his whole life.
“Barry sounds like I could be from Ireland,” he said.
Though Luo is working under the rather shaky premise that recent progress for blacks, like Barack Obama’s election, was supposed to improve prospects for black job seekers, he notes the opposite attitude in his interviewees:
Many interviewed, however, wrestled with “pulling the race card,” groping between their cynicism and desire to avoid the stigma that blacks are too quick to claim victimhood. After all, many had gone to good schools and had accomplished résumés. Some had grown up in well-to-do settings, with parents who had raised them never to doubt how high they could climb. Moreover, there is President Obama, perhaps the ultimate embodiment of that belief.
Certainly, they conceded, there are times when their race can be beneficial, particularly with companies that have diversity programs. But many said they sensed that such opportunities had been cut back over the years and even more during the downturn. Others speculated there was now more of a tendency to deem diversity unnecessary after Mr. Obama’s triumph.
Adam rightly notes the disincentives for blacks to speak up about discrimination, writing “why dwell on racial bias when it’s something you can’t really control? It’s obvious that racism doesn’t make success impossible, and things are obviously better now than they once were.”
And Ta-Nehisi agrees, adding, “I was in competition with a lot of other people who weren’t black. Obsessing over discrimination would have been, from that perspective, like a rooking guarding Jordan complaining about the officiating. You aren’t going to win, and it distracts you from actually doing your job. You may not like your assignment. It may be unfair. But that really isn’t up to you. My charge was to find some way to win, not to enumerate the obstacles in the way.”
Unfortunately, neither Adam nor Ta-Nehisi notice something that was glaringly obvious to me on my first reading of the piece: not a single black woman was quoted in it. Luo may have interviewed black women, but he certainly didn’t give them a voice in a story about black — not just black male — professionals.
And while Ta-Nehisi’s post is a great exploration how blacks navigate racism and success, even he only refers to black men — Obama, Deval Patrick, Cory Booker, Booker T. Washington.
This is not a minor problem.
Black women go to college at higher rates than black men, and 27 percent of black women are employed in managerial positions, while only 19 percent of black men are. I don’t think it’s much of a leap to suggest that there are more black women looking for professional jobs than black men.
Of course, black men have a unique set of challenges. And while black women share a similar experience with them, it surely wouldn’t do to quote women in a story about men. Likewise, quoting a variety of black men doesn’t speak to the experiences of a variety of black people. What about the single mothers? Or young women who are struggling to be taken seriously in the male-dominated corporate arena? I know plenty of black women who would have a lot to say about having a business degree and a ‘black’ name, or being interviewed by someone who’s not just of a different race, but also of a different gender.
The stories of the men in Luo’s piece are valuable, but in a story about black professionals, they just don’t get the job done.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
mswoodenshoes wrote:
Michael Luo wrote another article dated December 5 that focused more on women.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/weekinreview/06Luo.html?ref=us
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:23 am ¶
manda wrote:
tbf – i think this scenario is true for lots of different backgrounds. Simple things like your name, address, schooling etc are markers of class, ethnicity, upbringing and gender and people will use this to discriminate- I’m willing to bet some don’t even realise they’re making judgements when they are. Not sure how you can get around this one…. and these days calling out discrimination is often more perilous that being the person who is discriminating.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:53 am ¶
tonifullofgrace wrote:
Everytime something is written about black males, I don’t think its necessary that black women be included, even on this topic. Maybe that is the black womans’ plight on another level–we feel that we have to get “equal” attention when clearly things have been “unequal” between black men/women in every way. We need them. Let’s give them the spotlight sometimes so that, perhaps we can help improve their circumstances which should help us improve ours.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 12:15 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:
@mswoodenshoes
It’s interesting that the other effect of using initials rather than a first name on a resume is kind of skipped over: to cover gender (which I’ve done for certain positions and I know for a fact that I’m not alone).
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 12:24 pm ¶
pennibrown wrote:
@Tonifullofgrace – I would argue that they need us. And to that end, it would make sense for them to be more mindful of their ’sisters in the struggle’. I can’t speak for other ethnicities, but black women have put the issues of black men and boys ahead of their own for long enough.
There is nothing wrong with expecting an article about black people to NOT just focus on black men.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 12:52 pm ¶
Colin B wrote:
It doesn’t seem like the OP article is about black men alone, or at least that the title specifically says something to that effect. Why shouldn’t our sisters be a part of the article, then?
On another note — I bet the comments will have lots of “The problem is they’re complaining so much…” I wonder why there’s all this confusion about whether to bear witness to the systemic racism around us all or just to carry on as if nothing is going down. Hmmmm…
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 1:32 pm ¶
Xay wrote:
@tonifullofgrace
The article wasn’t intended to be about black men. It was intended to be about black people.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 1:38 pm ¶
Luis wrote:
@manda
This is not the case. Studies have shown that based on name alone, with all other factors standardized for control, that applicants “Black” names receive fewer responses than White, Hispanic, and Asian applicants. Which means that they don’t have the opportunity to judge address, university, job experience, etc., simply their perceived race.
If that’s just “how it is,” then things will really never change, because limited access to employment creates cyclical problems.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 2:10 pm ¶
Marco wrote:
@Luis
That’s true. However, not all “Black” names carry the same weight. Indeed, research has suggested that employers favor African and Caribbean immigrants over African Americans since they are perceived as working harder. So, for Black immigrants, it stands to reason that playing up their ethnic identity would be more favorable (unlike other ethnic groups) so as to create distance from African Americans.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶
n wrote:
@A.D. Nix
I used my initials and a gender neutral middle name for all of my college applications. And I use my initials as much as possible to “cover” my gender, though my surname makes it impossible to cover ethnicity
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 5:59 pm ¶
lechatnoir wrote:
Um… Marco could you post some data for us to see.
You do know that there are US born blacks with complete african names as well. Now I am trying to understand how they would “play” their ethnicity Vs the nationality of the country they were born into ( US, or europe ).
I’d like to see how Terrell Johnson would weight if compared to Alasaji Adaeze Akintokun. Who will be hired.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 6:28 pm ¶
Mia wrote:
I’ve noticed that there are times in which black men like to speak on behalf of black women and are counterproductive to our cause. Or better yet, they feel more comfortable speaking on behalf of black people (i.e. Bill Cosby).
I’ve never felt the need to cover my name for job placement, but I do think it’s funny how often jobs will make adjustments once they see me. “Is it Mya?” and are quick to apologize and offer instances in which it would be so, when in fact my name is clearly spelled Mia, and if it weren’t correct, I would be more than happy to correct them myself.
I’ve always felt the names on the resume are more important than the name of the applicant. They want to see who else got along with you, who was willing to accept you. If it was Harvard, then they can do the same. If it’s a company no one is familiar with, then “good luck.”
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 9:18 pm ¶
Kelvin wrote:
@lechatnoir
I’m in that category of having a funny West African name. I also graduated from a HBCU so there’s my double whammy. In my experience, I’ve had more “no thanks” than I’ve had “come interview”. I’m not saying that the Africans over African-Americans thing doesn’t exist but I do think it gets more play than it really should. I speak for myself when I say that I have a lot to cover in terms of ethnicity, accents, funny name and national origin when looking for a job.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 9:32 pm ¶
Super Amanda wrote:
I’m sure ethnic names play a role in college admissions. That’s just a feeling I have, not sure if there are any studies to back it up.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 10:52 pm ¶
Slush wrote:
@tonifullofgrace – yeah, as Xay said, the article doesn’t talk about black men, it talks about black people:
“But there is ample evidence that racial inequities remain when it comes to employment. Black joblessness has long far outstripped that of whites. And strikingly, the disparity for the first 10 months of this year, as the recession has dragged on, has been even more pronounced for those with college degrees, compared with those without. Education, it seems, does not level the playing field — in fact, it appears to have made it more uneven.”
Then it does say that it’s especially bad for black men….although it’s not clear why he says that at all since he never talks about women to put that “especially” in context.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 10:56 pm ¶
Melanie wrote:
@Mia: I have the same problems with pronunciation. As you can see, my name, although not common, is conventionally spelled and a name that most people are familiar with. I have had so many people try to give me either something pronounced with the emphasis on the wrong syllable (mah-LAY-nee) or call me a name that isn’t the one written on the paper/nametag (Melody and Memory seem to be popular ones.) I guess this little anecdote is just proof that people see what they want to see, not what’s actually presented to them.
Oh, and I’m also unemployed right now. It’s hard to maintain a good attitude in regards to my prospects.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:26 pm ¶
Marco wrote:
@lechatnoir
Yes, I’m aware that many African Americans have African-centered (sur)names. I would argue that hypothetically, to the extent that a Black applicant can distance them self from being perceived as African American, the more favorable she or he will be seen by the employer. This is not to say that Black immigrants have it easy because they do not (especially compared to other immigrant groups). But the myth that African and Caribbean immigrants work harder than African Americans exists.
With respect to data, Mary Waters’ “Black Identities…” shows how Black immigrants fare better than their African American counterparts in the labor market. It’s a seminal piece in sociology that explores native and immigrant Blacks in the US.
Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:35 pm ¶
ashlynn wrote:
A year or so ago, I shortened my first name so that I didn’t have to deal with people struggling to figure out my *name. When I was applying to college, I found that using my whole name cause me a whole set of problems. I would walk into an interview, the interviewer would mispronounce my name, I would correct them, and that made this sort of barrier between us the entire time. Because my name is almost always mispronounced (and not for nothing, it’s really not hard at all), and the mispronounciation has somewhat negative connotations as being a generic Black Girl Name, professionals already discounted me from the start, only to be beyond surprised when they speak to me. “Oh, you don’t sound like you’re from NY…And where are you from again- what part of Brooklyn?…to be honest, you weren’t what I was expecting at all…” that kind of stuff. I find my last name is a lot more appreciated, as it is English, so at this point, I’m pretty much Initial. Last Name.
I feel so uncomfortable having to draw on my experiences in a racial manner..it really is a Catch-22.
And oddly now, when I use the shortened version of my first name, people tend to try and attribute other ethnicities to me..I suppose it would just be too impossible to be Black, huh? Then again, after almost two decades of Being Black, I do welcome the ambiguity.
Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 4:33 am ¶
MoonCat wrote:
i’d read studies like this before. when i was an administrative assistant, my boss was looking for my replacement as i was leaving for grad school, we took little post-its and taped them all over the names. we then read and categorized them by their job histories and cover letters alone.
we thought of ourselves as non-racist and non-sexist but were still afraid we would judge (unknowingly or otherwise) by name. i hope it worked.
Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 11:24 am ¶
Orville wrote:
Where did the OP get the statistics? I think this is important! Also, yes black women in the USA go to college more than black men does the OP even explain why? The OP doesn’t even explore the racism and sexism that young black males encounter in the USA educational system?
I have a problem with people that think just because black men we are male we automatically have MALE PRIVILEGE and I disagree. I do not believe because I am MALE means I have privilege. In fact, I argue due to being a BLACK + MALE I encounter a lot of racial + SEXUAL discrimination. Why do some women think men don’t encounter sexism? The term sexism is not a term just dealing with the discrimination women encounter. Men we also encounter sexism and black men we deal with sexism in a BIG WAY.
I remember 20/20 did a really good episode on black people’s names and HR recruiters. I think people need to understand that black men we encounter a lot of racism in terms of employment discrimination. In fact, I would argue compared to black women that black men we are viewed as more of a threat to employers due to our race and also our gender.
Posted 09 Dec 2009 at 7:18 am ¶
Yetunde wrote:
I agree with Orville. I think a black male’s sex can be a liability to him even though males are usually privileged because of their sex. Both the black male incarceration rate and the portrayal of young black males as thugs by the media contribute to the fear that society has of these men.
Posted 12 Dec 2009 at 1:50 am ¶