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   [...] reading the discussion about Morgan Freeman playing Nelson Mandela, it’s interesting to note that South African actors have been protesting the casting of [...]

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   [...] Racialicious: Why are Black Americans Playing Roles Meant for Africans? [...]

Comments

1. Slush wrote:

   Ouch. I was with you until the end.

   If you’re going to complain about an American playing a black South African, how is a Nigerian doing it an improvement? Nigeria is not part of South Africa, and Africa is not a country. Nor do Nigerians have South African accents. What???

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:30 am ¶

2. Kat wrote:

   This is exactly what I felt when I saw the trailer. God, Freeman’s accent is terrible. What were they thinking, casting him??

   “There isn’t any South African actors that have Freeman’s acting skills though.”
   Puleeeeze. Hasn’t this person seen Tsotsi, or U-Carmen e-Khayelitsha, or even District 9? I’m not suggesting that any of those actors should be taking on the role of Mandela, but if you’ve seen these movies you would know that SA has some serious talent. That is such BS.

   Imagine what an honor it would be for a South African actor to portray Mandela. That should have been the first place they looked.

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:36 am ¶

3. atlasien wrote:

   When it comes to American movies I don’t mind cross-ethnic casting at all. I think it’s important to increase minority actors by any means, even if they’re not playing their own ethnic group. Cross-ethnic white casting happens all the time, too.

   But this might be a different case…

   Nelson Mandela has a very strong Khoisan appearance. A lot of features, especially his eye structure, are totally different from Morgan Freeman.

   Black people with ancestry from West Africa look a LOT different than people with ancestry from South Africa, and there’s a lot of regional variation too… the idea that everyone with brown-ish skin with ancestry from Africa is interchangeable is kind of messed up.

   In comparison, Koreans and Japanese and Northern Chinese have a lot more physical similarities than, say, African-American predominantly West African vs. South African.

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:39 am ¶

4. n wrote:

   Is there a significant difference between a “black” American playing a black South African and a Nigerian playing a black South African? If the issue is to select someone from that country, it makes sense to me.

   But to say an AfAm actor shouldn’t play someone from S.Africa but a Nigerian would be ok, seems to me like it perpetuates the whole Africa Is a Culturally and Racially Homegenous Monolith thing.

   Is the problem one of accuracy or representation and lack of roles for Africans? What about Afro Latinos or black “West Indians” playing African Americans, or Idris Elba playing a guy from the hood of Atlanta?

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:46 am ¶

5. Ric Reyes wrote:

   As a mexican I’ve seen enough “mexican” actors in Hollywood movies with horrible spelling, even actors that are indeed form Mexico seem to be asked to do some horrible spelling or tweaked phrases. On the other side, I don’t think non-spanish speaking audicences or even audiences that speak spanish but aren’t familiar with mexican accents (and there are several and quite diverse) could even notice, which makes me wonder if when in hollywood movies actors speak languages I’m not familiar with they could be in fact doing atrocious accents.

   I’ve also seen actors from other countries play mexicans to several degrees of success, like spanish Paz Vega playing a mexican on Spanglish, but beyond the political aspect of thinking “an actual mexican actor should have gotten this job” I don’t really mind, since they’re acting. Paz Vega isn’t an ilegal immigrant maid, either. Jack Black as a mexican on “Nacho Libre” might be stretching it but, there are mexican gueros too. Spanish Benicio del Toro has done Che Guevara, mexican Gael Garcia too, and many more.

   I think that if Freeman’s accent sucks, then he should be replaced with an actor that can do it better and I surely would like to see talented actors from anywhere outside the US featured on Hollywood movies, but I don’t think it’s necessarily got to be an actor from the specific country the character portrayed is from, as happened with Frank Cho on Star Trek. On the other side, it’s not an entirely bad idea for movies, but about plays?

   And in the case of black american actors, I think it’s hard enough for them to get a starring role playing any character.

   Besides, let’s say they did cast an actual African actor, the movie is still coming form the US, I’d rather have Hollywood respecting the material and stories they take from anywhere else.

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:47 am ¶

6. Xay wrote:

   In Sarafina, there was only one African American in a lead role and I wouldn’t consider Whoopi Goldberg’s role to be THE lead role. The title character and the majority of the speaking parts were South Africans.

   That said, I am really bothered by the casting of African Americans as Africans. South Africa has actors and actress of their own. The reason why I find Sarafina to be the least egregious example of casting an African American as an African is because the rest of the cast was African and mostly the original cast from the musical.

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:48 am ¶

7. beatrice2000 wrote:

   This is funny that you just posted this, because last night I watched an episode of The No. 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency. I liked how it mixed serious topics with light humor, and is really well-rounded and engaging with a great cast. Jill Scott as an American playing a woman from Botswana doesn’t bother me, as I just see her as an actress. Would it be a different standard for a TV show rather than a movie?

   Also, would this argument include British people of African descent playing African characters, like Chiwetel Ejiofor, Idris Elba, or Sophie Okonedo?

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:00 am ¶

8. Esteleth wrote:

   Even if Morgan Freeman was capable of nailing the accent and could completely nail personifying Mandela, it would still be problematic. Just as Matt Damon playing Francois Pienaar is problematic. Why? Because Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon are Americans. They are not South Africans. As you say, the idea that there are zero qualified South Africans – or even just Africans – actors who could play Mandela and Pienaar is absurd, offensive, and is highly America-centric.
   Actors can successfully play a characters who do not have their own background, of course. It happens all the time and is – in my opinion – a good thing and part of what acting is about. An actor should be able to portray someone very different from themselves.
   However.
   Nelson Mandela and Francois Pienaar are real people. The events depicted in Invictus happened. By casting actors who are so different from their roles – actors who cannot even fake the accents properly – the effect is a diminishment of the role and the story. Nelson Mandela is not Black Guy With Funny Accent Who Brings Folk Together. He is a real person who did real stuff and he deserves better than this. The last days of apartheid and the rise of the modern South Africa deserve better treatment than this.

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:07 am ¶

9. Joy-Mari Cloete wrote:

   I read this sentence as “I understand that casting African American film stars likely makes movies about Africa more palatable”.

   And perhaps that’s what the movie houses are trying to do, they’re trying to make the movie palatable to an American audience.

   Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:09 am ¶

10. Medusa wrote:

    Yeah, I’ve been saying this for years. I’m used to hearing an outcry any when say, a Chinese actress is cast to play a Japanese woman
    , and yet I have never heard anyone so committed to the authenticity of the nationality of actors in relation to their characters of the examples that you mentioned. It has always annoyed the shit out of me that as far as movies being marketed in the “West” about Africa, they get Americans to put on fake accents instead of just finding talented actors and actresses form, I don’t know, the film’s setting and using them.

    The idea that there are no talented South Africans is preposterous. I’ve seen a number of South African movies, all of whom featured South Africans with great acting skills. One of my friends defended the practice, saying that that’s the only way to get people to see movies, but I really don’t believe that Kerry Washington was such a huge draw to see The Last King of Scotland.

    And while I know that actors often play characters from different countries, I’d say this is different from an American actor putting on a British accent, because there seems to be a lot of back and forth in that direction. In this case however, African actors seem to get passed up time and time again in order to give even more exposure to American actors.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:13 am ¶

11. c.n.edaw wrote:

    This is one of those issues that I agree with logically, but then wonder in the larger scheme of things 1) does it really matter if the person is a great actor 2) does it do more harm than good for all people of color ( specifically people of African descent) to demand such accuracy?

    Growing up in the 90’s I was acutely aware, for example, that a signifigant number of actor/actresses (and video and magazine models) in everything from commercials, to t.v., to movies always seemed to be biracial, and fairer skinned.

    And even those actors I never suspected of being biracial, by appearances, were.

    It made me wonder if it was possible to be a black person in entertainment who had two black parents. And it also made me ask, how come some casting director couldn’t find someone with two black parents to play a character with two black parents.

    On the flip side, I always wondered why, when interracial unions were depicted onscreen and on television why THEN didn’t casting directors use obviously biracial actors/actresses but instead would often cast monoracially black actors/actresses to play THOSE roles.

    But, I also wondered the same thing when the Puerto Rican Jennifer Lopez was cast as the Mexican Selena. Or about just every role Lou Diamond Phillips ever played.

    I think it certainly matters to those Mexican or Native American actresses trying to get a break but does /should it matter to most of the people in the audience??

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:13 am ¶

12. rosmar wrote:

    This seems essentializing to me. Actors play outside their ethnicity all the time.

    It is one thing to say that we need more (and more varied) portrayals of black people in mainstream movies, which is clearly true. It is another to say that actors can only play their characters from their own culture.

    On the other hand, Morgan Freeman shouldn’t have lost out to another actor on the accent issue alone.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:20 am ¶

13. rosmar wrote:

    Shoot. I meant “should” have lost out to another actor on the accent issue alone.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:20 am ¶

14. Eva wrote:

    @Esteleth:

    I agree. I think producers might feel that if a South African actor who an American audience didn’t know, played Mandela, the movie would not do well. Morgan Freeman is an Oscar winner. In Hollywood, it’s all about getting people in the seats.

    I think it would have been more interesting to have a South African actor playing Mandela, but I don’t know if most Americans would feel the same.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:28 am ¶

15. Cindy wrote:

    I think I’m less bothered by a non-African being cast (Hollywood does this cross-cultural thing all the time) and more by the statement, “There isn’t any South African actors that have Freeman’s acting skills though. Just because someone is from a particular country doesn’t make them automatically better for the role.” The actual statement was “we didn’t want to make the effort to do a proper actor search and opted to use Clint’s good friend Morgan instead.”

    If Morgan Freeman (of whom I am a big fan) was the best choice, then why couldn’t anyone note that he was failing with his accent? Clint Eastwood is a minimalist director, but has he lost his sense of authenticity? It’s a shame that what could be a great story handled properly will be lost in the distraction. The flip side of the shame is how few people in America will know that Freeman’s accent is such a disaster.

    @Ric Reyes. I remember when Benicio del Toro was interviewed during the release of 21 grams he talked about working very hard on the Mexican accent. The interviewer was stunned that there was a different accent amongst Spanish speakers. Big eye roll from me on that one.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:29 am ¶

16. dersk wrote:

    Well, this is the season when Oscar bait is released, so it’s Morgan Freeman, the Serious Actor in the Serious Movie. I seriously doubt that a studio would have funded an event movie with an unknown (to the American market) actor in one of the two lead roles.

    Now, by definition, actors are pretending to be someone else. While I totally agree that in the aggregate films misrepresent society and help perpetuate existing stereotypes, I find it really hard to get upset about individual casting decisions like this one.

    At least Damon kinda looks South African – he’s got that farmer Boer face.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:40 am ¶

17. deathblossom wrote:

    Have to agree with Rosmar on this one. Morgan should have tried harder to perfect the accent and perhaps they should have tried harder to find someone who looks the part more. But if we start splitting hairs on this, where does it end? Are Korean -Americans not qualified to play native-born Koreans? WTH? Would you really go searching about for a Korean actor if you’ve got a Korean-American right down the street? And if an black American has the looks correlated with that specific part of Africa, can they not play the part because they were not born in Africa? I really dislike this article’s distinction between “Africans” and quite simply “black Americans”. Why not “black Africans” or “African blacks” and “American blacks”? It’s basically saying that we’re Americans who just happen to maybe share shading with actual, real Africans. We can make room for a an African who isn’t actually South African, but ix nay on any black person born outside of Africa? Eh, I do not agree.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:45 am ¶

18. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ beatrice2000
    EXCELLENT question re: British actors.

    I think I’m more invested in the economics of casting actors from African countries to play characters from African countries for a predominantly Western audience than whether Morgan Freeman looks Khoesann enough to my non-Khoesann, wholly American eye.

    I’ve been working on a film project that’s centered on a black teenager in Harlem but has basically been run by a Californian and kid from Sri Lanka – very outsider-y outsiders at least a decade the character’s senior. The woman cast in the role who IS a teenager and IS from Harlem has brought SO MUCH to the table in terms of editing language, motivations, and even blocking out the appropriate amount of space between people . . .

    I love Miss Meryl and her amazing ability to transform and deeply respect the work actors do to slip in and out of different characters but there is gain on both sides when people are able to participate in the telling of stories that are culturally close to them. ESPECIALLY when those stories are so rarely told.

    As an aside: “Blood Diamond” is a bit of an odd example considering the lead role (i.e. the biggest face on the poster) still belongs to an American actor playing a Rhodesian/South African.

    @ Cindy
    Re: Benicio del Toro – that may have been about his accent in ‘Traffic’ (which I found kind of ridiculous and distracting).

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:54 am ¶

19. Melle wrote:

    These were my thoughts exactly. There are only a few South African actors that I have seen in movies. There is a store near my house that has African movies from all parts of Africa–with actors being from their respective countries playing roles about people from their country. I only thought Forrest Whitaker was good in The Last King of Scotland but Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon’s South African accents are horrible. He should have developed it more because its actually insulting. It is almost like when those White actors who play Asian roles and come up with horrible and stereotypical “Asian accents”. It’s wrong.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:02 pm ¶

20. ummm...WAAAAAT wrote:

    I was with you until you framed your argument as “would African-Americans be as accepting if roles designed for them were given to whites to increase a film’s marketability?”. In that, you totally ignored the African heritage of African Americans by equating them to whites. Simply put, that is highly offensive. You are making an implicit argument about racial purity with this comparison as you suggest that there is something non-African about African Americans by suggesting that they are “white” compared to “real” Africans (who are black and only black). You may retort that your argument is not about race, but, what would you be writing if they were to cast a White South African actress, say Charlize Theron, as Winnie Mandela? Would that be more acceptable?

    This framing also rested on a recent controversy about Angelina Jolie portraying a black (actually biracial) woman in film. That was incendiary because, for some, it was reminiscent of blackface in which white actors “blacked up” with shoe polish to portray black (both Africans and black Americans) as subhuman. “Tropic Thunder” garnered similar responses. Its not because the actors were white per se, but because that arrangement has been used historically in racist propaganda. I believe that there is nothing in principle wrong with white actors portraying blacks so long as those depictions are not offensive to the humanity of black people. There is a significant history of those depictions being offensive, but they don’t have to be.

    As for your overall statement about “African Americans” being cast as “Africans”, I would challenge you to explore the reverse of this phenomenon by offering Chewital Ejiofor . Is he European in your eyes because he was born in the UK or is he African because his parents are from Nigeria. Is he an African playing an American when he acted in “American Gangster,” “Inside Man,” or “Four Brothers” etc? Was he a European playing an African when he played Thabo Mbeki in “Endgame,” was he a Nigerian playing a South African, or was he an African playing an African?

    Granted that Morgan Freeman doesn’t have a convincing South African accent and it would be of great sentimental for a South African actor to play Mandela in a big budget film, but to implicitly frame the debate as a question of race is just wrongheaded and offensive.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:17 pm ¶

21. laura wrote:

    People, it’s ACTING, not a reality show. British actors play American parts all the time. And directors cast friends and people they’ve worked with in the past (and have won Academy Awards for their movie) all the time. I have no problem with Freeman playing Mandela, especially since Mandela has publicly stated that he wanted Morgan Freeman to play him. However, I have a HUGE problem with Freeman’s accent. He’s obviously trying but it’s not good. I probably won’t go to see this movie because the idea that South Africa united over rugby is a bit too much for me to swallow

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:22 pm ¶

22. Safiya Outlines wrote:

    Agree that this article was right until the writer mentioned a Nigerian being a better choice

    A Nigerian probably would not look like Nelson Mandela either, nor would a Kenyan, but they’re both African. To state otherwise does indeed fall into the trap of thinking Africa is homogeneous.

    Black Hawk Down was a classic example of ‘Any Black Person Will Do’ casting. None of the supposedly Somalian characters looked Somalian at all.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:22 pm ¶

23. Celeste wrote:

    I thought Freeman’s accent was horrible when I first heard it but then I thought “It’s Morgan Freeman, I must be wrong about how a South African accent sounds” Lol. I then convinced myself that this is perhaps som regional South African dialect that I was unfamiliar with. I guess I’ll just have to accept that his accent sucked, oh well. On the topic, I agree a South African actor would have been best. However, i don’t get how that makes a Nigerian more authentic.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:26 pm ¶

24. Iggles wrote:

    I agree with you deathblossom. Blacks in America are of African descent. That shouldn’t be ignore merely because where we were born.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:27 pm ¶

25. softestbullet wrote:

    Uggh, that poster! A Black man can’t even be centered on the POSTER of his movie.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:27 pm ¶

26. Kuchen wrote:

    I’m very tentatively sticking my neck out to say I agree with Rosmar. Should Marie Antoinette have been played by an Austrian actress? What was Liam Neeson doing playing Schindler? Garbo as Camille?
    It’s offensive to say that there’s no one in South Africa good enough to act this role, but Freeman’s selection is all about the star system and the way films get marketed and financed. That’s a bigger system by far to crack. And yes, Africa is huge and diverse.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:31 pm ¶

27. gatamala wrote:

    @esteleth

    Nelson Mandela is not Black Guy With Funny Accent Who Brings Folk Together.

    YES!!!

    As soon as I heard this movie was being made, I knew it was Oscar bait (yes dersk) that would include the Venerable Morgan Freeman.

    C’mon black American folks, we know we’re fighting for scraps. South Africans deserve a black South African cast as Mandela. Considering the similarities in our experiences as blacks in white-dominated societies we’ve got to be able step back a bit.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:42 pm ¶

28. Celeste wrote:

    @uuumWhat: Now that you mention it, WTF was with American black=white anything? Did something happen last night regarding my status in the racial heirarchy that I was unaware of? Yay! We’re officially postracial now and it’s all about nationality.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:50 pm ¶

29. Mike wrote:

    This is a very interesting take on this subject. As an Asian American, I’m overjoyed to see ANY Asian American faces on television – to the point where I prefer it if an Asian American actor is chosen to play a foreign character. There are so few opportunities for Asian Americans to break into film and television. When a role of Asian ethnicity does come up, it almost inevitably goes to either a Caucasian actor or a foreign actor (Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Chow Yun-Fat, etc.).

    This discussion highlights the complex and still-evolving constructs of race, ethnicity, and national identity.

    To the point in a previous comment: why is it unacceptable for Americans to play South Africans?

    The reasoning by Esteleth argues that it’s because they are not South African and cannot understand those historical figures.

    But does that mean an American can NEVER play any non-American character?

    I think things have to go deeper than that. This might be a case of disparate perceived international “status.” I think very few people would object to an American playing a German national.

    So then it becomes something that goes beyond nationality, ethnicity, or race into (as Esteleth alludes) “Africa” vs “The West.” And I think that’s why some people suggest that a Nigerian would have been a far superior choice.

    I admit a bit of a nationalistic streak: I like it when acting jobs for an American film go to Americans. I identify as Asian American and there’s really nowhere else in the world that has that particular national/ethnic construction. So when a role comes up where an Asian American fits the role – even if they’re not the precise “right” Asian (re: John Cho as Sulu) – I root for the “team.”

    But I guess things are different for the African American community, where perhaps the number of engaging, rich roles are not as few as for Asians. In that case, it might be that the benefits of hiring an African-American actor are outweighed by the detriment to national/meta-national relations or decorum.

    I’m not entirely convinced, though. I think it’s an achievement for Morgan Freeman to have been so successful, to the point where he was cast in an originally “white” role in Shawshank Redemption (the only instance of that I can recall off the top of my head).

    I think it remains worthwhile for a black American to get such an important role, because it’s still very new for black Americans to find such success in Hollywood.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:54 pm ¶

30. dersk wrote:

    I just hope the character in the movie is a real person, not the Magical Black Man that Freeman so often plays…

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/inventory-13-movies-featuring-magical-black-men,1782/

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 12:54 pm ¶

31. Shadow And Act wrote:

    This conversation is almost as old as cinema itself.

    In short, we tend to forget the business part of show-business. Profit is, if not the sole motivator, one of the primaries. Decisions on whether and how a movie gets greenlit are made by Hollywood execs plugging in data into Excel spreadsheets, which then output results that directly influence decisions.

    Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon won’t have been cast in the film if it wasn’t already believed that their presence in the film (one of the pieces of the Excel puzzle) is a much lower financial risk than casting South African actors.

    If the film was a South African production, with South Africans as its intended audience, then likely, you’d see South African actors in every role.

    But the film is being made by American companies, for, first and foremost, an American audience – an audience that has shown that it prefers to see familiar faces in the films it pays to see.

    So it goes… and I don’t expect this to change anytime soon. Sure, there’ll be the occasional risk-taker willing to go down the road less traveled, as you suggest – for example, Mel Gibson did it with “Apocalypto” a couple of years ago. But he did it with his own money, so he didn’t have to acquiesce to some Hollywood suit, punching in data into an Excel spreadsheet.

    I suggest you read the following article on the mathematics of movie-making: http://www.shadowandact.com/?p=12843

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 1:51 pm ¶

32. Jessica wrote:

    Come on you guys this is still Hollywood. Whether or not his accent is good they want to make money and Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon are big name actors. If they were to cast Africans in it Americans most likely wouldn’t be busting down the doors to see it.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 1:57 pm ¶

33. aimerrouge wrote:

    As limited as roles are, I believe that Nationality should be honored.

    South Africans deserve a black South African cast as Mandela. I agree whole heartedly.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 2:00 pm ¶

34. Nadra wrote:

    I think that Esteleth makes my point when s/he said: “As you say, the idea that there are zero qualified South Africans – or even just Africans – actors who could play Mandela and Pienaar is absurd, offensive, and is highly America-centric.”
    There is a reason I brought up Nigeria in particular. It was in response to the idea that S.A. had no qualified actors. I was saying, well, at least consider giving the role to an African in general, and Nigeria may be the place to look considering that it has the largest film industry on the continent. I’m not saying that Africans are homogenous or that all Nigerian produced films feature solely Nigerian actors. Nollywood is more likely to have a wide range of African actors than anywhere else on the planet. And, yes, I do believe that in this case an African in general would be better than an African American simply because an African from any country doesn’t get the chances that a black American, or even a black European, gets. (Full disclosure: I have one black American parent and one Nigerian parent. However, I grew up much more with my black American family.) So, in terms of power alone, I would prefer to see an African from any country get opportunities normally denied to them. I am not saying that black Americans aren’t really African. I am saying that they have more power.
    Also, I’m not against all cross-cultural casting. I remember the controversies that arose over J.Lo playing Selena and Bencicio playing a Mexican in “Traffic,” and I actually supported these Puerto Rican actors playing Mexican roles. It’s my feeling, however, that when it comes to films about Africans, black Americans are consistently cast as Africans, which makes cross-cultural casting a bit unfair in these circumstances.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 2:33 pm ¶

35. dogsofwar wrote:

    Yeah, it’s a shame Freeman apparently dropped the ball on the accent. When it comes to something so basic, and in a role portraying such an important historical figure, they should bend over backwards to get it right.

    It is a damn shame many Americans are brainwashed and spoonfed to favor seeing familiar faces in big roles.

    However, I think it’s total BS that you can’t make a popular, well-received film with an unknown actor. A great example was Ben Kingsley (of half-Indian descent) playing Gandhi in the famous 1982 biopic. Kingsley was virtually unknown to moviegoing audiences at that point.

    Arguably, aside from Kingsley’s very real talent, it is perhaps his status as an unknown that gave the portrayal that much more power. It didn’t hurt that he also bore a definite physical resemblance to his subject.

    Personally, I’d be thrilled to see a dynamite black South African actor play the role, if only because such an actor might have lived through the formative experiences, however complex and painful, of growing up in that time and place, and that would come out in the portrayal.

    *** Btw, y’all, Benicio del Toro was born in Puerto Rico, though fount-of-all-knowedge, Wikipedia, also indicates “of Spanish and Italian” descent.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 2:43 pm ¶

36. laura wrote:

    To be perfectly honest, I don’t think South Africans or Africans in general are owed anything when it comes to this film other than to be fairly portrayed. Invictus isn’t a documentary; it’s a mainstream film made to make money and, hopefully, entertain. Should nationality (not ethnicity) really come into play when it comes to make-believe? This is not a case of a white actor being made up to portray a black man, but an actual black man playing another black man. Hannibal Lector was American but Anthony Hopkins isn’t’.

    @aimerrouge I think there’s a certain amount of arrogance in saying South Africans ‘deserve’ a black South Africann actor. Your reasoning puts South African actors in a bit of a bind. Should they ONLY play South African roles? I know several South African actors who have played ‘generic African’ in several movies. Were they wrong?

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 2:47 pm ¶

37. XB wrote:

    I’ve never heard a south african accent, as an average african american moviegoer, i wouldn’t know if it’s horrible or not

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 3:19 pm ¶

38. refresh_daemon wrote:

    I’ll actually be touching on this subject in a Race & Casting piece either 2 or 3 parts down the series from where I’m currently writing.

    But outside of that examination, I have a few observations:

    1) American films set in other countries routinely cast Americans, as well as various other international actors, as characters of a specific nationality, without regard to believability of accent or language. For example, how many Holocaust movies are in German with former Axis power actors? Should we expect any kind of parity in terms of race when America makes films set outside of its borders?

    2) Does the actual national/ethnic origin of the actor matter, if the actor can believably portray the character? Does the intended audience matter? If you didn’t know the background of the actor, but the actor portrayed the character accurately and it turned out that the actor was not actually of the appropriate background, would it matter? What if you never noticed? James Kyson Lee, a Korean American actor, does not speak a convincing Japanese accent in Heroes–does this take away from your experience if you did not know it? Should he never have been cast as Ando? What about Daniel Dae Kim’s unconvincing Korean as a Korean American actor on Lost?

    3) Would it be better that a specific movie not get made at all, than to have an actor that doesn’t convince in the eyes of those most familiar with the national/ethnic/cultural background? Financial concerns do drive a lot of the use of stars in order to make movies seemingly profitable to the eyes of investors.

    Personally, I’m in favor of original language filmmaking and international casting via co-production/investment, but I’m not actually terribly opposed to cross-ethnic/cross-national casting. Granted, I also personally do want such casting to be believable to an audience that is composed of the ethnic/national background of the characters, but if a Colombian actor can successfully convince a Salvadoran audience that he’s one of their own, then I don’t think that he’s Colombian should matter. Morgan Freeman doesn’t succeed in the accent regard and so I am disinclined to like that casting choice–but does that necessarily make the movie poor? I suppose I’d have to see it myself to be certain.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶

39. JC wrote:

    At LEAST they cast the right RACE. It’s rare for Hollywood to even get the race right; asking them more would be ludicrous. But still this is a “Mighty Whitey” story with a larger than usual “Magical Negro” character, that is all. No black person is more magical in the eyes of white Hollywood racist liberals than Nelson Mandela. (other than perhaps Obama), and no one plays more Magical Negro roles than Mr. Freeman.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MightyWhitey

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro?from=Main.MagicNegro

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 3:28 pm ¶

40. Eva wrote:

    @JC:

    I just checked your second link. You are correct except for the Shawshank Redemption, because Morgan Freeman’s character, Red, was white in the book.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 5:10 pm ¶

41. Keith wrote:

    Being that Morgan Freedmen is Clint Eastwood’s boy and starred in several of his films as far back as Unforgiven, I figured that most people would assume that’s why he was cast as Nelson Mandela. Really I see no problem with it especially since many non American blacks are being cast as African Americans all the time.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 5:17 pm ¶

42. Michelle wrote:

    This is an American made movie.

    Do you really think that if a South African company made a movie about Americans, that they would hire Americans? They would hire South Africans to play Americans.

    And there are too few roles for people of African descent for us to be splitting hairs about what continent or in what country people are born in. When Djimoun, Edris and Chiwetel work it begats more work for other Black actors. Don Cheadle’s success in Hotel Rwanda made it possible for a movie like Lie to Me, which starred Don Cheadle and Chiwetel, and I am sure that there are movies that Chiwetel will star in that will begat work for other Black actors.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 5:35 pm ¶

43. Cindy wrote:

    @ A.D. Nix You’re right it was Traffic I was thinking of. Thanks for the correction.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 6:10 pm ¶

44. Big Man wrote:

    I wrote about this movie from a different perspective over at my spot. This movie wil never be watched by me.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 6:26 pm ¶

45. 123 wrote:

    I don’t think casting Morgan and Matt is the production company’s way of saying there are no viable S.African actors, I think they’re just trying to cast familiar actors. Doing so makes them more many than if they would have casted S.African actors who, while they may be popular in their country, are unknown by the masses here.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 6:29 pm ¶

46. mieko wrote:

    As a multiracial American actor, when would I have to wait for my role? I feel I would be waiting a looong time if I have to have a female-black-Mexican-Japanese-German- French-Spanish-Cherokee-American role to play in.
    While I agree with the statement that directors should make a better stab at authenticity when choosing actors, I would be out of luck if people always felt like they “deserved” better than I had to give, simply because of accident of birth.
    This doesn’t apply to the Nelson Mandela movie, however. If an accent sucks, it’s hard to believe actor and the production-at-large.
    Also, @ Keith- I am offended that you chose to call Morgan Freeman Clint Eastwood’s “boy.” He is an adult who is type-cast, which I can assure you is a difficult thing to break free of no matter HOW famous you are in your circle. He is not a “boy.”

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 7:05 pm ¶

47. Curious wrote:

    Lets just clear it up. Off course black americans have African ancestry, but this doesn’t qualifiy them as african. I just wanted that fact to be respected, because I get offended when people act as if the two groups are interchangable.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:11 pm ¶

48. Tristan wrote:

    Black Americans starring in roles meant for Africans is not nearly as grievous an insult as whites starring in roles meant for black Americans.

    In fact, I don’t think it’s really an insult at all. If an Asian American actress was to star in a biopic about Aung Suu Kyi, would that also be problematic? I don’t think so, considering the dearth of recognizable Asian actors in Western film.

    Would it have been better if the role of Mandela had gone to an as-yet-unknown black actor from North America? There are all sorts of structural considerations that must be made when accounting for the discrepancy of credible, well-developed roles for people of color in Hollywood. Reducing the choice of Freeman to the above analogy is doing the discussion surrounding this discrepancy a huge disservice.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:16 pm ¶

49. NP wrote:

    Though I appreciate and agree with many of the criticisms mentioned voiced here, I remember reading a few years back that Mandela was once asked who he’d want to play him in a movie. He responded Morgan Freeman.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 10:30 pm ¶

50. ms four wrote:

    I agree the author had a compelling argument until “Nigeria.” Let’s not conflate “Africa” into one place.

    Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 11:47 pm ¶

51. Danny wrote:

    After thinking for a while, I get some of the reasonings for this post, along with what people call the quirks of show-business a.k.a. casting roles for people who could bring in more money. I don’t have much to say or think deeply regarding the race roles or the national identity of actors/actresses but the accent display from the commercials kind of did turn me off.

    I think I’m justified in stating this as an American, and this is a bit off topic. I think we (the readers of this blog and others) are kind of at a point, especially for the different demographic groups, where we feel less of the need to tolerate adjusting reality in media for the sake of the elite/privileged/mainstream/”white” audiences. Like they want more authenticity. Even if it’s supposed to be entertainment, even though in this case it’s based on real events.

    I think that’s what many readers are feeling though I could be wrong.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 12:16 am ¶

52. Nadra wrote:

    NP, Mariane Pearl reportedly wanted Angelina Jolie to play her, but there was still a public outcry about it.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 12:21 am ¶

53. OneBrownSnowPea wrote:

    Trans-ethnic/Trans-cultural casting within the black race is VERY DIFFERENT from trans-racial casting such as with Angelina Jolie. I wouldn’t be upset if an an African actor played a role as an African- American. I actually would like to see more of it. I think the role should go to the best person for the part.

    Please black people stop with the in-fighting. It makes us look silly, I hardly ever hear white Americans complaining about European whites playing American roles. I haven’t heard Morgan Freeman’s South African accent, if it is that bad, then the responsibility falls on Morgan and the Eastwood for letting that important part of the role fall by the wayside.

    It is called ACTING. If actors only play roles that are very close to who they actually are than what kind of talent or skill are they really demonstrating?

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 1:13 am ¶

54. msfour wrote:

    For clarification: was there really a general public outcry about Angelina Jolie at Mariane Pearl? I recall reading that here but nowhere else. But perhaps I am remembering incorrectly.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 1:58 am ¶

55. Aiyo wrote:

    I have no problem with cross ethnic casting because at least the characters are still in their racial roles. I know that the authenticity may bother some people because they feel that the actors accents are not on point.

    Jimmy Jean Louis is Hatian and played a Nigerian his accent and his Yoruba were not good.

    Tatianna Ali is Afro-Latina but has always played roles for African American.

    Idris Elba and Thandie Newton are black british africans who played African American roles

    Me personally I think that the actors should really try to get their role as real and ‘authentic’ as possible wheter that mean living in the country for a while or getting a reat dialect coach

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 2:04 am ¶

56. sandeep wrote:

    i don’t really agree with this. first of all the movie companies are based in america. secondly its hard enough to get skin color in roles. to expect the actors to be from the country of the character is a bit much. there is such thing as acting. it means theyre putting it all on for show. if you cast an actual barber as a barber where’s the acting? bottom line is american movies are probably likely to have an all american cast. consider the audience theyre trying to sell the film too. plus the fact that the same ten actors act in every hollywood blockbuster. the bottom line is that there’s no direct tie between africa in hollywood. if there was then you might see more crossover. actors local to the region. as well as directors and film crew. as it is they’re based in america and they feature mainly americans. if africans are bothered by it they should start their own film industry local. look at the indian system. an indian actor in an american film is a hard sell. but if you go to india there’s a big industry for indian film. plus america itself is deeply prejudiced. i’d say save yourself the trouble and start something in a more african friendly environment. bottom line is the most you can expect is for an actor to look like the guy. at least when it comes to cinema. if you want real quality acting go to the stage.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 3:04 am ¶

57. Keith wrote:

    [quote]@ Keith- I am offended that you chose to call Morgan Freeman Clint Eastwood’s “boy.” He is an adult who is type-cast, which I can assure you is a difficult thing to break free of no matter HOW famous you are in your circle. He is not a “boy.”[/quote]

    @mieko – I’m not sure what you are going on about, but the term “his boy” in the context of my sentence is a colloquial expression for friend.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 3:04 am ¶

58. Ric Reyes wrote:

    You know, from time to time, some actors appear as mexicans and they’re not only actually mexican but very talented actors that are big names in Mexico (and I suppose this happens with actors from anywhere) and they’re just given very short performances on clownish stereotypical roles. And it’s kinda worse than hollywood movies with no mexican actors at all.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 3:56 am ¶

59. CJ wrote:

    The first time I saw the trailer, I thought, “Why couldn’t they find African actors to play the lead roles?” But you know it’s Hollywood and all about the green. In their minds, unknown African actors won’t bring in the numbers so they pick American well known actors. Like it or not, it’s not about black or white, it’s all about the green.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 6:03 am ¶

60. Ishtar wrote:

    I haven’t seen the movie or the trailer so I won’t comment yet on whether or not Morgan’s and Matt’s accents are authentic.

    What I can say is that as a South African who has watched several international movies about South Africans, set in South Africa – I’ve yet to see one that hasn’t made me cringe at some point.

    I totally get that the motivation for going with internationally known actors in the lead roles is about economics, in other words, “bums on seats”.

    However, I’m also really tired of how our accents are mangled. There is no single South African accent. Accents vary depending on race (a legacy of Apartheid), ethnicity (english, afrikaaners, xhosas, zulus, etc.), geographical location and education. I have yet to hear a single non-South African do a convincing “South African” accent. I would be satisfied with just one accent being nailed…just one.

    I think that films like Tsotsi and District 9 (to mention only two) show that we have more than enough talent. Anyone even vaguely familiar with some of the quality local TV productions can also attest to our pool of talent. So claiming a lack of talent is simply nonsense.

    When I watch non-South Africans play the roles of prominent South Africans I simply don’t find the portrayals believable.Even without the atrocious accents, they get so many things wrong – mannerisms, body language, code-switching in languages and changes in accents (depending on the context). Just one example – many coloured people speak differently when they’re at work/school to when they’re home to when they’re socialising with other coloured people to when they’re socialising with non-coloured people.

    These things might not make a difference to a non-South African or someone who is not familiar with the country and its people, but it definitely makes a difference to me and to many other South Africans.

    I’m tired of international films about our defining events and people, being presented in an inauthentic manner.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 7:42 am ¶

61. Ami D. wrote:

    Umm…I was watching Morgan Freeman on Jay Leno last night. He told the story of how Nelson Mandela specifically wanted Morgan Freeman to portray him. I agree about the issues of his accent, but if Nelson Mandela himself wanted this particular African American to play him, maybe we should wait for another example to show disparities in casting.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 10:50 am ¶

62. pinksghetti wrote:

    For what it’s worth regarding Morgan Freeman’s accent, after a couple of times seeing the trailer I immediately thought to myself that must be a movie about Nelson Mandela. Maybe my hearing isn’t as good as it used to be but he sounded pretty similar to Mr. Mandela, IMO.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 12:29 pm ¶

63. Squidfly wrote:

    Maybe Morgan Freeman deserves this after decades of maintaining a career in Hollywood.
    Meryl Streep’s being accent morphing for years, some good and not so…
    Brit’s and Aussie’s play Americans all the time.

    It’s harder for an American to change their accents than it is for Euro’s or Aussie’s Isolationism, Psychology and identity politics, are a major factor in here. American drama schools and MFA program’s are weak in the area
    of dialect and accent training, where as in Brit, and Australian schools there is a strong emphasis on this skill.
    American movie actors have to have a dialect coach, Brit and Aussie actors do it on their own, also these actors have grown up with American TV and Film.

    Marianne Pearl, wanted Jolie to portray her…nuf said.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 1:24 pm ¶

64. Nadra wrote:

    Msfour, I explaned in comment 34 why I mentioned Nigeria. I am African, specifically, Nigerian, more specifically, Yoruba. I understand that Africa is a continent with diverse peoples throughout and not a country.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 1:29 pm ¶

65. calichica wrote:

    I’m more offended by this poster than anything else. A movie about Mandela and he’s but a mere shadow to the white dude, who is all up and center in this poster.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 1:31 pm ¶

66. Elahater wrote:

    What’s even more troubling to me is why the first major motion picture about Mandela is really focusing on a plotline where Matt Damon leads a rugby team. What, Mandela isn’t compelling enough?

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 2:15 pm ¶

67. Danny wrote:

    I don’t think the biggest problems for general American and maybe non-American viewers (regardless of their knowledge) has to do with Morgan Freeman’s nationality and/or with his acting experience but just the voice sounds like himself “trying to impersonate”.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 4:01 pm ¶

68. kdg wrote:

    I’ll say that this movie looks horrible and the selection of historical incident itself strikes me as a very white liberal POV. Im not a fan from the outset, but why is Matt Damon appropriate and Morgan Freeman not? Matt is also not South African.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 4:38 pm ¶

69. pololly wrote:

    Nadra

    Also Yoruba and think your post was wrong headed and offensive. I’m not sure being African gives you a pass. As my sisters and I used to say, ‘Africa is not a hotel’. How would someone Yoruba either a) look more like Mandela or b) necessarily get the accent right.

    AFRICA IS NOT A COUNTRY. Rinse and repeat.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 5:27 pm ¶

70. CKR wrote:

    I see the point trying to be made, but equating an African American playing a South African to a white person playing an African American is a HUGE REACH- seriously, please rethink that statement. Neither are anywhere near the same level. Africans haven’t been oppressed and marginalized by African Americans or some privilege African Americans have (which is none). That IS the case when it comes to the connection of white people to African Americans. Totally different dynamic. So it’s all types of more screwed up when they want to play us in a movie, but wouldn’t trade places with us in real life if their lives depended on it b/c of the privilege they hold and the history of our oppression. When a white person plays a person of color in a movie it isn’t just about the director getting the color wrong, it’s another slap in the face to go along with all other screwed up things that have occurred to blacks in the past and still occur today.
    It’s also the same reason why the black community IS NOT up in arms when Zoe Saladana, a fine actress, played the famous science fiction heroine Uhura of Star Trek- who was black (from the futuristic United States of Africa), although Saladana is Dominican. Why? B/c they at least got the color right, and sometimes that is all we can ask of Hollyweird. Same goes with Rosario Dawson, Thandie Newton, and other women and men of color who don’t happen to be African Americans but play them in movies. I’d rather have them playing it, then someone who isn’t the right race.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 9:13 pm ¶

71. Bcbgrl33 wrote:

    I don’t really care what race he is because I’m more annoyed that Hollywood couldn’t do a simple movie Biopic about Nelson Mandela rather than adding in this “Mighty Whitey” I’m pretty sure anything about Mandela would be profitable but stupid Hollywood just can’t trust Blacks with their own movie even if he is NELSON MANDELA

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 10:03 pm ¶

72. OneBrownSnowPea wrote:

    @posters # 64 and 65…I remember thinking the same thing when I saw the poster. Mandela is one of the most celebrated men on the planet. A film about him alone is enough to hold the public’s attention. It’s the classic throw a random white person in the film to counteract the alleged fact that POC are not “marketable”.

    @#68…that is why it is called acting. There are many actors who can nail an accent if they study properly with a dialect coach and/or live in the country for a period of time. To act a part of a person outside your country well you don’t have to be from that country. You don’t have to look exactly like the person you are portraying either. It is about conveying that person’s story, emotions, mannerisms, and experiences very well that matters the most.

    Posted 04 Dec 2009 at 11:30 pm ¶

73. JC wrote:

    @Elahater: right, because it must be a “Mighty Whitey” story to get green-lighted in Hollywood. A story with just about the struggles and triumph of Mr. Mandela is not enough, simply because Morgan Freeman and Mandela are both black. Hollywood used up their quota of black movies with Will Smith. They need a white male lead to sell the movie, so they’d rather feature the story a relatively unknown white rugby player than one of the greatest man who has ever lived. Isn’t Hollywood great!? I heard they ALL voted for Obama too!

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 2:15 am ¶

74. yolanda wrote:

    Lets just clear it up. Off course black americans have African ancestry, but this doesn’t qualifiy them as african. I just wanted that fact to be respected, because I get offended when people act as if the two groups are interchangable.

    the comments in this post make me so sad. it’s why that as a “black american” i don’t know how to identify. i hate calling myself “african american” because people from africa have such disdain towards black americans–either they think of us as monolith or equate us to white people when necessary for their article (how the fuck does that work, just wondering?) it always amazes me how africans will get pissed at black people for stereotyping the continent or thinking of it as a monolith, but do the same to us and/or give white americans a pass for the same thing. i feel no kinship to africans, and it’s sad.

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 3:38 pm ¶

75. Nadra wrote:

    Polloly, I never said anything about being Yoruba giving me a pass. I said this to clarify that I know that Africa isn’t a country, so why you feel compelled to shout again that Africa isn’t a country I have no idea. I explained my rationale for mentioning Nigeria in comment 34. It’s because it’s the Hollywood of Africa, just as Los Angeles is the entertainment epicenter of North America. Repeating the same thing–that Africa isn’t a country–to someone who clearly knows that and has been there really adds little to the discussion. I mentioned Africa in reference to someone saying that S.A. had no qualified actors. I said, well, if that’s the case, consider going to Nigeria, or Nollywood, to find a wde array of African actors. Not all Nollywood productions feature Nigerians. They feature Africans from other countries. That was my point. To ignore that and keep saying that Africa isn’t a country when I said nothing of the sort makes little sense to me.

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 4:59 pm ¶

76. Nadra wrote:

    Polloly, lastly, I never said anything about a Yoruba playing Mandela either. I simply said that I was Yoruba. I’m not sure where you got the idea that I was advocating for a Yoruba to play Mandela. I didn’t say that in the post or in the comment section.

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 5:01 pm ¶

77. Clnmike wrote:

    I understand the concern, I get annoyed when I see non- Haitians being played by whoever can fake a french accent which isnt the same thing as a Haitian one. But unless the writer is advocating for a South African to play the role this is a watered down argument. African Americans have devoted a lot of attention to South Africa during apartied and on Mandela giving us as much say in it as any African not from S.A.

    Besides that this is not something new, how many non Ameircan black actors are running around Hollywood? Hell the British blacks are making a nice penny over here for limited roles. This way of thinking leaves a lot up in the air. For instance the Movie Ninja Assasin was played by a Korean couldnt they find a Japanese dude to play the role?

    See what Im saying?

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 8:13 pm ¶

78. mieko wrote:

    @Keith- sorry, I misunderstood. I was thinking about “boy” in terms of ownership. It was common during the 60’s and before then (and after then, actually) to refer to all black males as boys, regardless of age, thereby denying them respect and importance.

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 8:21 pm ¶

79. Rudy wrote:

    I’m curious to watch this film that is directed through the lens of Clint Eastwood. Not sure how a white man’s perspective will influence this movie.

    Not surprised to be honest, to see a Black American play this role. The movie industry is very capitalistic in nature. This has historically affected the representation of cultures, race, ethnicity, sexual identities, etc. This is another reason why I am curious to see the film and its representation of Mandela and the issue of unifying post-apartheid South Africa through rugby.

    Looking at Latina/os in film, many movies have casted actors that are not the same ethnicity/nationality as the individuals they are trying to portray. Jennifer Lopez (puerto rican) portrayed Selena (Mexican American), Edward James Olmos (Mexican American/Chicano) portrayed Jaime Escalante (Bolivian), and in Mi Familia, Jennifer Lopez protrayed Maria Sanchez (Mexican).

    To me, the issue is not on which actress/actor gets to play the role of a historical figure or specific character in a movie. The problem, is in how the movie is constructed and re-presented to the public. We cannot have movies that alter characters or real life events just to make a buck. Such actions result in the perpetuation of stereotypes and a message sent to the public that can be misunderstood for the worst.

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 8:36 pm ¶

80. ashlynn wrote:

    If it means anything, all the casting issues aside, I found the trailer really flimsy in terms of communicating the fact that this was a movie about a historical figure, a living legend, who helped change the world…honestly, I thought it was just your typical run-of-the mill glory sports movie that Hollywood so loves to churn out at least once a year. Shame…

    Posted 05 Dec 2009 at 11:32 pm ¶

81. Callie wrote:

    So what if African Americans play Black South Africans? African Americans played Jamaicans in the bobsled movie. White Americans play Europeans, including White South Africans, all the time.

    Why is this a big deal? Especially since Nelson Mandela himself asked Morgan Freeman to play him. If Mandela doesn’t mind, why should anyone else?

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 1:04 am ¶

82. Diana wrote:

    I think we need an open thread about western views on cultural authenticity as it is linked to cultural appropriation. This seems to be the bigger message that people want to address.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 3:41 am ¶

83. Orchid wrote:

    Yolanda #70
    your response in this thread compelled me to respond.
    Being African, more specifically Ghanaian or Ugandan or Ethiopian, will never be the same as being a Black American. There are obvious language differences, cultural beliefs, customs. It is not from a source of disdain that makes us proclaim that we are not Black Americans. We are not. We are completely different, but that does not mean we cannot stand in solidarity together. I don’t know if you have had some bad experiences with Africans, but I just wanted to clarify that. there is no disdain in wanting to be known as I am. I am Ghanaian, I am an Asante girl, not Black American. Hell I’m not even American.

    This discussion bothers me. I feel like most people do not acknowledge the seriousness of many of the concerns of Africans involving the casting for this movie. It is about fighting to own our representation, to own our stories despite the fact that the movie industries are dominated by western companies. If Nelson Mandela personally asked for Freeman to portray him, then that’s fine, but this movie is not the only time something like this has happened. We need to stop thinking that just because someone shares the same pigment with a certain group, that it is ok for that person to impersonate that group. It detracts from the movie in my opinion. Hotel Rwanda still makes me cringe accent wise. I love Jill Scott but her accent in No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency is still atrocious. It makes it hard to watch. But then again, maybe Africans or people from the actual culture being portrayed are not the audience so it is ok to just brush them aside in the name of making a movie. Maybe that that is the mindset of many of the Westerners involved.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 2:03 pm ¶

84. Nadra wrote:

    Yolanda, I’m sorry you feel that you don’t know how to identify. I certainly don’t have disdain for black Americans, considering that I’m bicultural, with a Nigerian Muslim father and a black American Baptist mother. I am culturally much more black American than African and am sorry you took my words as an indictment against black Americans. However, in terms of casting, I think Americans have more power, and I would like to see actors from Africa given the opportunity to actually star in films set in Africa because they’re consistently pushed to the side in such movies.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 2:12 pm ¶

85. Calvin wrote:

    Yolonda: the comments in this post make me so sad. it’s why that as a “black american” i don’t know how to identify. i hate calling myself “african american” because people from africa have such disdain towards black americans–either they think of us as monolith or equate us to white people when necessary for their article (how the fuck does that work, just wondering?) it always amazes me how africans will get pissed at black people for stereotyping the continent or thinking of it as a monolith, but do the same to us and/or give white americans a pass for the same thing. i feel no kinship to africans, and it’s sad.

    I’m African-American (Black American) and I don’t feel the same way you do. Technically, all blacks in America are “African-American” because it refers to our race/ethnicity/etc. It’s the reason why other ethnicities in America are also referred to as Asian-American/Latino-American/etc…. nontheless we are all “American.” “African” only refers to people of recent African ancestry (those who migrated here), and even so… Africans identify with their ethnicity/nationality first and foremost (my friend identifies as Igbo or Nigerian-American).

    I don’t think that the majority of Africans have such “disdain” for African-Americans…. I think it’s just the usual clash in cultures you find amongst most immigrants in America. As for those that do dislike Aframs, a Nigerian friend of mine gave me a good explanation once: “Imagine coming to America for the first time and expecting your fellow American brothers/sisters to embrace and accept you with open arms… only to find out that they treat you worse than everybody else in the US once you arrive.” I had to agree with him. I remember high school… and I remember the teasing/harassment/etc that many “fresh off the boat” Africans had to experience. And don’t forget that the majority of immigrants aren’t living in the best of places when they arrive here… they usually reside in the lower-income areas (I think we can all imagine the environment).

    Whether or not you feel any kinship towards “Africans”, you (like most African-Americans) can’t deny your relation to them. They resemble us the most (because we come from them) and we’re all treated the same here in the USA. But it really all the depends on the “Africans” you encounter. Most of my African friends are born/raised here in the USA and I feel “closer” to them than I do to most other Black Americans in my area. The only thing that gives them away is their names and their parents accents, lol!

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 3:14 pm ¶

86. yolanda wrote:

    @Orchid: the fact that you think my concern was with Africans having a different culture from that of black americans shows that you did not understand my comment. everything you said i completely understand–i know we’re different. my culture and experiences are completely black american and i wasn’t talking about that. but thanks?

    @Nadra: thanks for your response. i think i used this post and a few comments to vent some concerns that really had nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 3:51 pm ¶

87. Digital Coyote wrote:

    I don’t even know where to start with this. Between the article and some of the comments, I think I’m hearing:

    - American people of mostly black African descent are not the same as black Africans (because of looks, culture, language, etc.), so we sort of resent the two “identities”(which alternately are and are not monolithic as it suits us) being conflated.

    - There is variation in looks across the continent of Africa and within its various nations. Morgan Freeman does not look like Nelson Mandela for this reason. However, because most of your African heritage is from the western part of Africa, you Americans look the same by default and could never “pass” as Africans from other regions.

    - We are tired of seeing black American people “impersonating” Africans, but are mum when Africans from outside of Africa impersonate black Americans. This is okay because we think their mimicry of your speech patterns is more correct than the reverse. The blame for the inability of black Americans to do African accents lies with the actors not being African and not with the production team for hiring crappy dialect coaches, if they hire them at all, their lack of concern with accent accuracy, or an insufficient amount of time given to the actor to get the accent down pat.

    - An anonymous comment on the internet about an imagined dearth of South African talent is indicative that you all believe this or should be treated as if you said this.

    - Now that we’ve established that we are different and your attempts at our accents suck, use your slight positional power for our benefit in Hollywood. (We assume that you have more positional power because you are “American” and ignore the possibility that we are all lumped together as “black” in this context.) You should demand it on the grounds of our on-again/off-again monolithic solidarity. Get cracking.

    @ Yolanda: I’m starting to believe my father’s statement that Natives and black Americans (in a distant, but socially tangible second) are the only people in our society whose ability to ethnically identify is determined by others as a matter of “qualification.”

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 4:28 pm ¶

88. Montclair Mommy wrote:

    I guess I am with a few other posters that said that I was with article until the end. A Nigerian playing a South African is no different than an American playing a South African. Nigeria, a West African country, is as different from South Africa as America. Why would you think a Nigerian actor would do a better job at a South African accent than Mandela? Or a better job interpreting the role? Americans have played Mandela before (Danny Glover) and this is not the first time Freeman has played a South African (Power of One). It happens. He should have improved his accent, sure, but I don’t think that having someone else from the same continent playing the role would necessarily be an improvement. Would you say that a German should play an Italian role rather than an American, too? I’m kind of shocked, actually, by that statement.

    Personally, I didn’t think Freeman’s accent was as bad as Leo DiCaprio’s in Blood Diamond. Now that ruined the movie for me. Although my husband tells me that Hounsou did a fairly good job with the Sierra Leonean accent (his second as someone from the area). Of course, I didn’t hear as much broohaha about Leo playing a white Afrian and I am not hearing as much about Matt Damon playing a South African (his accent isn’t perfect, either). It feels a little like Freeman is being held to a higher standard maybe BECAUSE he’s a Black actor and not a white one.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 5:29 pm ¶

89. Montclair Mommy wrote:

    @Digital Coyote: I like how you laid that out.

    I get the point about Nollywood, but I just feel really uncomfortable with the idea that if you can’t a South African, any old African will do. If that is the case (that any African is superior to a African American), that makes me feel as if Black Americans are being told (once again) that they are not “Real Africans.” I don’t see how, once the role did not go to a South African (and I think that it probably should have), a Nigerian or a Sierra Leonean would have more insight into this role than a British African or a German African or an African American. And when is someone still considered an African once they have immigrated? I am just trying to get a better feel for the argument, I guess. How recent does the ancestry have to be for them to be considered a Real African? Should they have been born in Africa? Are they “African” if they lived there for five years and then immigrated? Sophie Okonedo’s father is Nigerian…is she African enough? Would Idris Elba be a better fit for the role than Freeman–yes, he is British, but both of his parents are West African (and I know many people from Sierra Leone who claim him as their own)?

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 5:52 pm ¶

90. 9jah wrote:

    I think some valid concerns are expressed by the post but altogether I don’t think this is a huge issue. There is an issue of Africans staking ownership to their stories in popular representation as Orchid (#82) noted but Morgan’s representation in this movie is most certainly not reflective of this issue.

    As many have indicated, analogizing this to a white person playing a black person/AfAm is entirely off base. No explanation needed. If an AfAm actor/ress has the proper sensibilities and appreciation of the “African experience”, which many appear to (Cheadle, Whitaker) I have no problem with their being considered for these roles along with Hounsou, Chiwetel and co. Particularly, where the African roles are regarding experiences (such as racism) that an AfAm would be equally appreciative of.

    Consider also that, Chiwetel (Nigerian), Okonedo (bi-racial Nigerian), Elba (Sierra Leone/Ghana) and co. play AfAm roles without much fuss.

    Culturally, we have our differences but we most certainly also have our similarities and shared objectives.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 7:10 pm ¶

91. Ain't I an African wrote:

    I think it’s fine for an African American to play an African. I don’t think Morgan Freeman was picked because he’s an African American but because he’s Morgan Freeman and I think that’s ok. The other way round, it would probably mean that there’s a perception that there isn’t any South African who can act well, which is of course not the case at all.

    @Ishtar: “When I watch non-South Africans play the roles of prominent South Africans I simply don’t find the portrayals believable.Even without the atrocious accents, they get so many things wrong – mannerisms, body language…”

    I so agree with this. In Hotel Rwanda I thought Don Cheadle, and especially the actress who played his wife were really inauthentic as Rwandans.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 7:36 pm ¶

92. Phil Deeze wrote:

    I believe the actress’ name that played Don Cheadles wife is Sophie Okendo.

    Some African actors play African-American characters in movies. Like one of my favorites: Carmen Ejogo. She played Sallie Hemmings in a feature film about Thomas Jefferson. No one complained that much about it except for the white folks trying to prove that there’s no way a “great man” like Thomas Jefferson would have sex and children, no less, with a slave.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 8:46 pm ¶

93. Keith wrote:

    It seems like some of you won’t let the fact that this is an American production go. By default, Americans will get most of the roles. What I find hypocritical is that Matt Damon seems to be getting a free pass. So is being white universal? The Argument for the most part has been against Morgan Freedman’s partial of Mandela. And for the record African is not a country why some bring up different African nationalities yet seem set on excluding African Americans makes me think that some of you don’t feel that African Americans are black enough for you.

    Posted 06 Dec 2009 at 10:23 pm ¶

94. papalicious wrote:

    The answer to this post’s question header is; …because they are Black! and also because the intended audience will largely accept their act as valid and convincing.

    The truth is that very few moviegoers in America will be able to distinguish between a real Xhosa accent and some fake “African” accent by anyone talk less a celebrated actor with a dark pigment.

    Just as several posters have mentioned, casting Freeman( love Freeman!) as Mandela is a step forward, But in defense of the article, I’ll say it would have displayed a great deal of courage and artistic authenticity if a South African or a Black actor; African-American(they are black too! remember) Nigerian, Kenyan or whatever with the time and dedication to master the mannerism and accent had been chosen for the role.

    Maybe Freeman dropped the ball, but hey! another great Mandela movie will be produced for sure.

    Nollywood appreciates the shout-out though

    BTW, her name is Sophie Okonedo,

    Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 2:12 am ¶

95. n wrote:

    On the issue of telling out own stories- like with the Princess and the Frog. If it is an American production it will use,most likely, American actors. If a Nigerian actor would be better and it were done in “Nollywood”, it STILL would not be a South African production, it would be a Nigerian production.
    And to expect a Hollywood movie to go to Nollywood for actors is farfetched. Nigeria should make a movie on Freeman. Can’t wait for others to tell your stories for you then demand theybe done as you wish. People have to do what they can to tell their own tales.

    Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 10:58 am ¶

96. Squidfly wrote:

    Phil Deeze wrote:

    Some African actors play African-American characters in movies. Like one of my favorites: Carmen Ejogo. She played Sallie Hemmings in a feature film about Thomas Jefferson.

    Jefferson in Paris, Sally Hemmings was played by Thandie Newton

    Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:11 am ¶

97. Bernie wrote:

    I thought the exact same thing when I saw the trailer as well but had absolutely so one to complain too. Plus, he didn’t even look believable as Mandela.

    Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:40 am ¶

98. Calvin wrote:

    I personally don’t really have a problem with Morgan playing Mandela. Yeah, it would’ve been better if they actually found a native South African for the part, but what do you expect? It’s an American film (more importantly a Clint Eastwood film). If you want to see more “authentic” films dealing w/ non-American stories, there needs to be more non-American/non-white (or non-Jewish, lol) directors.

    Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 12:10 pm ¶

99. politicallyincorrect wrote:

    its all about the money. Morgan Freeman is a box office draw, so he will get the role over some unknown African actor.

    Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 1:15 pm ¶

100. twentysomething wrote:

     Spoke too soon:

     http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091207/wl_africa_afp/entertainmentsafricausfilmmandelahudson

     Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 2:50 pm ¶

101. Keith wrote:

     I’m glad that Matt Damon is getting a free pass.

     Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 4:00 pm ¶

102. OneBrownSnowPea wrote:

     Why don’t African people have a problem with Black British actors playing African Characters?

     is it because they are only one/two generations removed from Africa? While AA’s are over 400 years removed from Africa.

     Chiwetel Ejiofor did a good job playing ex-president of South Africa Mbeki, but I never heard any uproar about it. However, his South African accent was much much better than Freeman’s.

     Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 7:13 pm ¶

103. vera wrote:

     Keith – I agree with you, it is funny that no one in is in arms that Damon is *taking* a role from a white South African?!!!!!!
     Very odd isn’t it? Not one comment on his accent either.

     Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 9:56 pm ¶

104. Michelle wrote:

     I just think this is a very slippery slope. Most Black people in America grew up in a time of dashikis, Africa Bambata and a whole lot of Keishas, Kenyas and Kenyattas. When Black people in American see black skin, we normally don’t question where they come from because as Black Americans, SOME of us believe in the concept of unity throughout the diaspora. So, when Chiwetel portrayed a very real Black American, Dewey Hughes (from Chocolate City, no less), we didn’t complain. In fact, we love Chiwetel, and we LOVE Idris! He is on the cover of Essence magazine as the sexiest Black man alive.

     So, now I am to understand that the openess that Black Americans have shown to our “brothers and sisters” throughout the diaspora is misplaced? Because Black American actors are supposed to give up roles that they are offered if those characters are anything other than Black American because that is only fair? Fair to whom?

     Not ONE poster has articulated a decent argument about why Black American actors should limit their already limited options to only playing Black American characters.

     As an actor, I will tell you that work begats work. More working Black actors means more working Black actors, regardless of which part of the diaspora the actor is from.

     Posted 07 Dec 2009 at 11:56 pm ¶

105. ashlynn wrote:

     @Vera and Keith,

     Because white people are interchangeable, so it’s fine that Matt Damon got the role instead of a white South African.

     Many of us are starting to fall prey to same ideologies that white prejudiced/racist/privileged society has used to hold people of color back for years.

     Black people who aren’t American really don’t like being lumped into the AA category. Yes, because there are many cultural differences that many AA’s cannot identify with.

     But: as an African American, is that my fault? Remember, you as a native African didn’t have ancestors who got snatched up or sold by their own. So unfortunately no, I do not share some cultural landmarks with you, and not by choice. That, however, shouldn’t enable you to create another schism in some much-needed Black unity and community. Divided we fall, no?

     I’m going to parrot the sentiment that because this is an American production, you will see American actors. Is that fair? Probably not. But at that same token, African comes before American in my ethnic classification, and if I can not only master an accent, but master the character itself, then I should have a shot at that role like anyone else. Black Hollywood, in terms of reach, and profit, certainly isn’t on par with Nollywood, and so as an AA actress, I’m trying my best to get as many quality roles as I can.

     Notice how I avoided Morgan altogether- because Mr. Mandela already had his say on that, and that’s all anyone in this forum needs.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 5:27 am ¶

106. Da Rule wrote:

     Hollywood is saying that “the only good Black actor is one that has made it in the White-dominated American film industry”.
     If this film is supposed to celebrate equality in the post apartheid era, then where are the opportunities for actors from Africa on the world stage?

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 7:11 am ¶

107. Ishtar wrote:

     @ Keith (101) & Vera (103)

     As a matter of fact, I’m not happy with Matt Damon either, just as I wasn’t happy with Leonardo di Caprio (Blood Diamond), Thomas Jane (Stander), Kevin Kline and Denzel Washington (Cry Freedom) and Samuel L Jackson and Juliette Binoche (In My Country). Whoopi Goldberg in Serafina wasn’t too bad but that was because she wasn’t the main character.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 8:19 am ¶

108. Ishtar wrote:

     @ Michelle (104)

     “When Black people in American see black skin, we normally don’t question where they come from because as Black Americans, SOME of us believe in the concept of unity throughout the diaspora.”

     Africa is a continent. Not a country. Where you come from matters a hell of a lot here. You might not like it. You might not agree with it. But you cannot deny it out of existence. Black Africans are not black Americans with funny accents. Black Americans are not black Africans with funny accents.

     “So, when Chiwetel portrayed a very real Black American, Dewey Hughes (from Chocolate City, no less), we didn’t complain. In fact, we love Chiwetel, and we LOVE Idris! He is on the cover of Essence magazine as the sexiest Black man alive.”

     Great! That’s your prerogative. I happen to think that Chiwetel Ejiofor is one of the sexiest men on the planet (and a highly talented actor) and I’d happily watch him read from the phone directory…but if I see him in a role where I think he’s miscast I’ll say so.

     “So, now I am to understand that the openess that Black Americans have shown to our “brothers and sisters” throughout the diaspora is misplaced?”

     Um…what? You were nice to us and now you expect payback?

     “Because Black American actors are supposed to give up roles that they are offered if those characters are anything other than Black American because that is only fair? Fair to whom?”

     So South African actors should smile sweetly, shut up and step aside from roles about South Africans, set in South Africa, telling stories that many of us have actually lived through?

     I’m not saying that non-South Africans have no right to play South Africans. Casting should be open to anyone. However, as a South African media consumer I have the right to say when I think an international actor’s portrayal of a South African is inaccurate or inauthentic and I can say that I would prefer that the role had been given to a competent South African actor. I realise that there is a snowball’s chance in hell that my opinion will matter to Hollywood or – apprently – to you. But I can still voice my opinion.

     South African actors (if they so choose) have the right to say that they think particular roles would have been better served played by South Africans.

     “Not ONE poster has articulated a decent argument about why Black American actors should limit their already limited options to only playing Black American characters.”

     Many arguments have been stated in this comments thread. You don’t happen to agree with those arguments so you dismiss them. And another thing, however limited the options are for black American actors; I can bet you that options are even more limited for African actors, who don’t have the benefit of an English or American accent (to mention just one factor).

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 8:51 am ¶

109. Keith wrote:

     @ashlynn – white people are interchangable, really? And blacks in terms of a movie role cannot? We are discussing a movie with actors in it, we are not talking about lumping all people of African decent into one monolithic group.

     “Many of us are starting to fall prey to same ideologies that white prejudiced/racist/privileged society has used to hold people of color back for years.

     Black people who aren’t American really don’t like being lumped into the AA category. ”

     You know what’s sad? That you and many others in this thread do not see that you are doing exactly what you are accusing white supremacists of.

     @Ishtar – Why are you back peddling? So now you have a problem with white Americans playing white people from Africa I don’t buy that it’s a real concern of yours. I know how many Africans look down on black Americans so I am not surprised by the reactions on this post. Might be a good topic to cover on racialicious.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 11:29 am ¶

110. Keith wrote:

     @vera – are you vera1 from modelminority.com? Not to put your business in the street, but how is everything going. Did you get your degree? How did you project go on images in the media?

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 11:32 am ¶

111. Celeste wrote:

     @Ishtar: Just for clarification, are you saying that a south african would be the best choice but an actor from a different african country would be a more reasonable facsimile than an African American? Or are you saying that a South African actor would be best but failing that, it’s open to the entire diaspora?

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 11:34 am ¶

112. Orchid wrote:

     Keith said:

     “”Black people who aren’t American really don’t like being lumped into the AA category. ”

     You know what’s sad? That you and many others in this thread do not see that you are doing exactly what you are accusing white supremacists of.”

     Kieth and all who have a problem with that, can you make us understand why what she said was wrong? I don’t understand why it is so strange that Africans want to be identified as they are and allowed to play a part in their own story. I feel like I’m missing something here. Seriously. Do Black Americans actors really not see a little hint of privilege in wanting to play these parts? not even a little? I mean, should Africans just shut up and smile like Ishtar mentioned? You think that the roles are limited for black actors, what do you think it’s like for African actors? I really want to get what I’m missing here.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 12:10 pm ¶

113. Keith wrote:

     @Orchid – I really don’t know what more I can say on the subject. Morgan Freeman is an actor, his job is to portray a character. His nationality has no baring on his ability to portray a character, because he is acting. Their is no association with African Americans or those from the African diaspora except what is made up in some people’s minds, none. It doesn’t get any simpler than that. Some Black Africans look down on African Americans and they are projecting their feelings into what the see.

     Yet no one has an issue with Matt Damon playing a white South African, minus Ishtar’s reactionary knee jerk response.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 1:25 pm ¶

114. Orchid wrote:

     People who are arguing for this are not looking down on Black Americans. I know Freeman is an actor. I know Mandela asked for him personally. Good. case closed for me. I’m not projecting anything on Black Americans. I don’t understand why people keep bringing up the fact that SOME Africans look down on Black Americans. That is not my issue. My issue is that black African actors should be given a fair share of the acting roles on the international stage. I personally think Matt Damon’s accent sucks too, but a white South African actor, in my opinion, does not have the hurdles a black South African actor has on the international stage. Please feel free to correct me, anyone.
     I hope I have made myself and others with a similar argument clear.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 3:49 pm ¶

115. Keith wrote:

     @Orchid -

     .1) This in not an international film it’s an American production.

     .2) White people are not universal.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 4:16 pm ¶

116. Nadra wrote:

     Orchid, I agree that a “white South African actor does not have the hurdles a black South African actor has on the international stage.” We have one white South African superstar in Charlize Theron; we have no black South African superstar actors, though. This post wasn’t about who’s authentically African, it was about how black Western privilege plays out in casting.

     Posted 08 Dec 2009 at 5:50 pm ¶

117. Ishtar wrote:

     @ Keith and Celeste

     I don’t want to hog the comments threads so I wrote a post on my personal blog that explores some of my thoughts on this topic. You’re welcome to read my post and comment there. I hope that it’s ok that I insert the direct link to that post in this comment.

     http://open.salon.com/blog/ishtarct/2009/12/09/non-south_africans_playing_south_african_roles

     I moderate comments on my blog and I don’t tolerate uncivil language or personal attacks. I’m not saying I think you’ll do either – I’m just informing you of the guidelines in my online space.

     Posted 09 Dec 2009 at 10:29 am ¶

118. Ishtar wrote:

     @ Orchid

     Thank you for understanding and acknowledging.

     Posted 09 Dec 2009 at 10:32 am ¶

119. Orchid wrote:

     @ Ishtar – No prob

     @Keith – you’re kind of stating the obvious, but thanks for making those points.

     I’m very happy for this post. Thank you for giving us a platform to explore the issue Nadra.

     Posted 10 Dec 2009 at 12:41 am ¶

120. papalicious wrote:

     Where did people get this nonsensical myth about “Africans looking down on African Americans” from anyway?

     …with the discrimination people with accents face in America, which when mixed with a black skin becomes more troublesome for an African, I wonder how Africans living in the USA earned this “looking down” status.

     I mean, are we talking about the same Africans that Jaime Foxx jokingly referred to as too “hunger ravaged to wipe flies off their eyes”? (I know a lot of Africans who still cant’ forgive him for that comment by the way). My theory is; some folks who think Africans “look down” on African Americans are just confused because of their own innate stereotypes, same way racists call African Americans who don’t fit “the profile” UPPITY…PLeeeze

     Posted 11 Dec 2009 at 2:28 am ¶

121. Yonnie3k wrote:

     @dogsofwar, Isn’t it possible for Benicio del Toro to have been born in Puerto Rico AND be “of Spanish and Italian” descent? They’re not mutually exclusive. I’m just sayin’ *kanyeshrug*

     Posted 14 Dec 2009 at 6:16 pm ¶

122. prentice.phillips wrote:

     i didn’t see the movie but i read some details in the papers. i get you all’s point. but i read that nelson mandela wanted morgan freeman to play him in a movie. soooo….

     Posted 29 Dec 2009 at 8:50 pm ¶