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1. 208. Estate sales, colonialist myths in 2012, revulsion, my vintage secret, and I’ve got it all « Fashion for Writers on 23 Nov 2009 at 2:40 am

   [...] Really?  It made me think immediately of this excellent Racialicious article that so astutely discusses entitlement, misplaced outrage, and the dishearteningly frequent [...]

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   [...] Racialicious: It’s Not All About You, or The Case for Empathy [...]

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   [...] Racialicious: It’s Not All About You, or The Case for Empathy [...]

Comments

1. Celeste wrote:

   How did you respond to her? Is she even at a point where she could be receptive to the bigger issues at play here?

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 11:14 am ¶

2. atlasien wrote:

   A lot of it comes down to the exaltation of pain and suffering as somehow ennobling and cleansing.

   I think we need to drop that.

   Suffering is just suffering. The person who suffers is not a bad person for suffering. Neither are they a good person for suffering. The good/bad judgments distract from what should be the most important thing: analyzing the suffering and figuring out how to stop it.

   I hate the reaction you’re describing here.

   “Someone else is suffering… so I’m going to take their suffering as an excuse to talk about my own suffering, and therefore claim the moral high ground.”

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 11:46 am ¶

3. Big Man wrote:

   That story was amazing. Talk about missing the point.

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:02 pm ¶

4. Soda & Candy wrote:

   “when one of us is discriminated against, it’s an affront to us all.”

   Well said.

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:09 pm ¶

5. cocolamala wrote:

   how is the mother preparing herself to understand when her son approaches her with similar complaints of being followed in stores, or having difficulty dating in her community because he is an african/jewish man.?

   what happens if the parents of his friends give him looks similar to those they gave his nanny?

   if they could not give respect to her jamacian nanny, does she believe they will have no difficulty accepting her african-born son?

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:19 pm ¶

6. lunanoire wrote:

   Physical/serious emotional suffering is more harmful annoyance or hurt feelings

   However, when the person feeling hurt or annoyed has more power, the statement changes and “more” becomes “less.”

   This plays out in so many ways, like how many view a man’s hurt feelings after being rejected by a woman as more legitimate than a woman’s concern of violence when the man approaches her in a disrespectful manner.

   I admit that I had to check myself after having hurt feelings when old high school friends came out 12 years after graduation. For greater context, I’ve often been the “straight person at the party” for over a decade. Their comfort and safety is more important than me feeling snubbed.

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:22 pm ¶

7. Phrone wrote:

   I would have lost my temper at that woman…talk about being short sighted! I don’t know how you handled it.

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:32 pm ¶

8. Sean wrote:

   “If we’re serious about social justice, we need to recognize that when one of us is discriminated against, it’s an affront to us all.”

   This.

   You just related the sentiments of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr: “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice anywhere.”

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:33 pm ¶

9. Slush wrote:

   I’m boggled at how “you people” brings you to some accusation of Judaism to begin with. Coming from an immigrant, I just thought that meant “Americans.”

   Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:35 pm ¶

10. Sean wrote:

    And that:

    “The mother was persistent, and told her that this was a safe space for her to share. She said there wouldn’t be any judgments, no matter what it was about.”

    Well, guess I gotta call BULLISH on that one.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 12:36 pm ¶

11. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

    I hate it when people try to complete in Oppression Olympics.

    When one person is affected, it can affect us all.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:01 pm ¶

12. Tamika wrote:

    I agree with everything you wrote Carmen.I am extremely appalled at her reaction just……. wow.

    “If anything it’s the norm, not the exception, for people to be pre-occupied with their own suffering and supremely uninterested in hearing about the oppression others face.

    This lack of empathy is one of the biggest roadblocks we face in dismantling racism.”

    very ture words.I say this all the time

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:06 pm ¶

13. Jaya wrote:

    I guess the hard thing I find about this story is YES the Jewish mother was taking it personally/only hearing one part of the story, but without acknowledging that she was taking it on, she won’t be ready for empathy. Even if she’s totally wrong, she felt hurt from it. Even unintended hurt, hurts. Yes, we can bemoan the situation, but ultimately we want the mother not to feel judged, and be ready to empathize with the nanny. We can hope that, then, she will be able to make the connection between her pain (whether we believe it to be legitimate or not) and the nanny’s pain. How else can we learn that our sufferings are connected? Knowing our own suffering is how we learn to care about others.’ It’s tough, but judging the mother is not the first step to empathy.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:14 pm ¶

14. luckyfatima wrote:

    “how is the mother preparing herself to understand when her son approaches her with similar complaints of being followed in stores, or having difficulty dating in her community because he is an african/jewish man.? ”

    “what happens if the parents of his friends give him looks similar to those they gave his nanny? ”

    My thoughts are the same as cocolamala’s. I feel very, very bad for this woman’s adopted son.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:16 pm ¶

15. beatrice2000 wrote:

    Agreed on hating the Oppression Olympics, or well-off people claiming some sort of ethnic prejudice that would have existed in the 1910s, but not today. Or growing up with a stable family in a middle-class environment but overblowing something in their lives as “having it hard.”

    And thank you cocolamala for noting her short-sightedness on the racism her son would be facing as he grows up, and how her “friends” would treat him much like they treated his nanny.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:18 pm ¶

16. dare2believe wrote:

    Oh. My. God.

    That is just plain horrible. How can she actually not have noticed? How can a person be so blind?
    I can’t believe it. Well, actually, I can.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:31 pm ¶

17. louie wrote:

    This doesn’t surprise me one bit. I feel that a key to the mother’s misunderstanding is that to many POC jewish folx are seen as white here in the US. While I doubt the nanny was referring to jews when she said “you people” I’m pretty sure she meant white people. However, this leaves us in a sticky situation because jews don’t see themselves as white even though they are allotted white priveleges that many other POC aren’t in the US. This is true with many light skinned latinos as well. Often times we are not aware that although we belong to an ethnic group largely represented as non white, some of us “pass”. For example, I worked with a blue eyed, blonde, white woman who is jewish that doesn’t understand why our students (Black and Brown) keep calling her white. I doubt ANY POC would think she is jewish if they saw her walking down the street.
    As for the “oppresion olympics” I’ve also noticed Jewish folx resort to this in large part because they wrongly assume that Black and Latinos are aware that we are in this “together”. I know its painful to read but we must acknowledge the fact that the majority of POC see Jews in the US as white and if we truly want to dismantle racism all folx with priveleges must acknowledge this in order to deconstruct it. This is why there is no empathy.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:48 pm ¶

18. lunanoire wrote:

    @ beatrice2000:

    Also there are some people who get to play the fence. For example, some children of divorced parents whose fathers are rich/wealthy and involved (not “deadbeat dads” regarding finances) , but whose mothers are middle class or working class talk about how hard it was growing up ($ speaking), but they still get certain benefits related to their father’s wealth- education paid for including private college and graduate school tuition, dad-financed vacations, etc. I am not trying to dismiss their hardship, but they are in the position of being able to claim lack of privilege while also cashing in on their privilege.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 1:54 pm ¶

19. Eva wrote:

    I’m not surprised at this. Most people are self centered in all things, not only race these days. If you tell some folks your problems they’ll turn it around so it’s all about them.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 2:27 pm ¶

20. Mars wrote:

    Sure, she may be so offended, since she can see herself and her African son primarily as Jewish, but is that what everyone else is going to see out on the street? Jewish isn’t a race. Of course people like this have white privileges, because they LOOK WHITE. That’s pretty much the basis of all interactions where race comes into play. the fact that she chooses to stay ‘colorblind’ and ignore racial perceptions of herself and more importantly, her son, is just foolish and unrealistic.
    If she chooses to ignore the racial discrimination that occurs to her Jamaican nanny in the places she takes the son, or within the friends the mother wants him to make, or the school he goes to, etc, does she think that they’ll all dismiss their judgments of his outward appearance because “he’s one of us, he’s Jewish” (which is A RELIGION)? Please. This just shows that she will never be able to understand the unfortunate things that take place in an elitist world, that will happen to her son when he’s old enough to go out on his own. What will she say when he sees how white/Jewish people treat HIM when they think that HE is stealing from stores, give HIM funny looks, and avoid contact or friendship with HIM?? She needs to realize that on the outside, she and her child will never be regarded as the same, no matter how much she is in denial about that.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 3:14 pm ¶

21. Kat wrote:

    Wow..talk about lack of empathy.

    What on earth is the lady going to say when her african/jewish son gets stares as well?

    “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” -MLK Jr.

    How did you respond, Carmen?

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 3:20 pm ¶

22. Seattle Slim wrote:

    @Kat,

    I am curious too. How did yo respond, Carmen and what was her reaction?

    Reading this made my brain want to log off life. What an insipid woman

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 4:56 pm ¶

23. Alexia wrote:

    I guess I’ll be the next one to say, “How did you deal with this woman?”

    Me personally, I would have let my head fall to the table while yelling “Are. You. KIDDING me?!” It would have taken everything within me not to shake her.

    At the very least I hope you stared her down as if she had said the dumbest possible thing that could ever be said in the history of spoken communication.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 5:59 pm ¶

24. Chiara wrote:

    And did you manage to convince her otherwise?
    By ‘you people’ she also could have meant ‘Americans’ since I take it she’s an immigrant too.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 6:52 pm ¶

25. Montclair Mommy wrote:

    I’m not surprised in the slightest. I also wonder how she will deal with this regarding her son. I get the feeling sometimes (not always) from white people who adopt (not birth) children of color that they think that THEIR child will be accepted b/c he will be “different” and “not like Them.” They seem to think that their children will be able to latch onto and use their white privilege like a cloak to protect themselves from the difficulties that The Other POC face every day. They seem to forget that when this adorable little brown child grows up he or she will have to walk about the world as a POC. This woman’s child will have to deal with parents who don’t want their daughter or son to date a Black man and those parents won’t necessarily give two s***s (pardon my language) that he was raised white and Jewish. All they will see is his black skin. And that is all that the teachers in his school, the police on the street, the shop keepers in the stores might see, too. In some ways, white parents may be able to pass on some aspects of their privilege to their children…but in other ways, those kids are on their own. And sticking your head in the sand and denying it does everyone a disservice.

    And I kind of take issue with everyone saying that Jewish does or does not equal white. There are lots of Jewish people of color and there are lots of white Jewish people. Being Jewish is an ethnicity and a religion so there can be white and non white people that identify as “Jewish.” Most Jewish people are, indeed, white but they are not WASPs so they do not share in the aspects of privilege enjoyed by a white Christian. I think that Catholics used to feel this way as well…that they, too, were oppressed so basically had this mentality, “Don’t talk to me about prejudice–I’m Irish/Italian!” I find it completely disingenuous of this woman to bring that up in this context. She has got to know that what her nanny meant was probably white wealthy people in her town NOT Jewish people in general. She probably was so intent on denying her nanny’s experience that she was subconsciously looking for an excuse to be mad at her.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 6:53 pm ¶

26. Kaviani wrote:

    Indeed. We even need to empathize with the bigots in order to understand them. You can’t fight an enemy (bigotry, that is) w/o understanding it. Denying it and screaming at it only galvanizes it.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 7:05 pm ¶

27. John wrote:

    I love how the woman says “You are in a safe environment, you can tell me what is on your mind.” And then fires the nanny. Sheesh!

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 7:13 pm ¶

28. Aiyo wrote:

    What a fool so when her son comes to her with those same problems is she going to dump him back from whatever country she adopted him from because he called jews “you people” oh please.

    Talk about being completely sefl centred she complete tuned out everything the nanny had to say.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 7:23 pm ¶

29. Lauren wrote:

    Wow. I hope you pointed that out to her.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 7:43 pm ¶

30. GüeraLola wrote:

    @ louie
    I also thought the Nanny meant white people or at least rich white people. I highly doubt the Nanny purposelessly meant to insult her and was just upset how people in her neighborhood treated her.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 7:56 pm ¶

31. NancyP wrote:

    The mother is completely out of line, and I don’t intend that the following discussion be taken as an alibi, only that it be taken as a possible explanation, assuming the mother is usually reasonable and is not consciously *trying* to be a racist jerk.

    An aggressive front sometimes hides feelings of shame, triggered by situations resembling older shaming situations (usually set up by parents or school peers). That woman may have stopped listening after she heard the words “You people”, at which point she may have been consciously or subconsciously thinking about some long-ago humiliation directed toward her Jewishness.

    In order not to behave like a racist jerk, she needs to understand and correct her psychology as well as her prior assumptions.

    Part of growing up is learning to recognize trigger words and situations, and how to put aside any reaction until you listen to the other person and understand exactly what is being said in the present situation. Your family conflicts ought not to be inflicted on other people, for lack of your ability to control your emotions and unwillingness to reason through a situation.

    The unfortunate adopted child certainly has a messed up situation to deal with. In addition to the race issue, her child will bond with a caregiver/nanny, and in this case the caregiver bonded to some extent with the child. You don’t disrupt such relationships for trivial reasons, and you don’t disrespect the caregiver, especially within earshot of the child.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 9:01 pm ¶

32. Minotaar wrote:

    Nicely written piece, Carmen. I liked how you lead the reader and throw in the twist

    ————————–

    I’m going to join everyone in asking if there is a way to show another person how the Oppression Olympics only oppresses us more. The activist in me finds it so hard to just let these things go and move on with the conversation.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 10:41 pm ¶

33. Bagelsan wrote:

    If the nanny didn’t grow up in the US “you people” might not even have a negative connotation in her mind. Perfectly innocent as a plural “you” perhaps.

    And the Jewish =? white thing is certainly complicated. There’s definitely a lot of overlap, and it’s not like every Jewish person is going to agree (nor every PoC!) — for example, one of my Jewish friends generally identifies as white but when she was in a choir as a child with all non-white kids they deemed her also “non-white” (due, they said, to her Jewishness) as a kind gesture so that she could count as one of them. :p And that same friend’s mother may not identify as white, having grown up when there was a *lot* more conflict between Jews and other ethnicities than my friend has ever experienced. The mother, even if she considers herself white, certainly has more of an “us vs. them” mentality around being Jewish than my friend does (not unjustifiably.)

    And I get asked if I’m Jewish all the time (I’m white with curly dark hair so people think it’s a safe bet, I guess :p) and I’m never sure what to say — my dad’s mother was, so I’m sort of not but sort of am? I’m not even sure if I count as *Jewish* let alone who else does (or if they then count as white.)

    To rerail: it’s easy to find something about yourself to feel hurt about if you’re attacked about something else. Am I being called out for being rich and arrogant? Well, I’m *Jewish* and you’re not so you’re the privileged one! Am I being called out for being X? Well, I’m oppressed in Y and you’re not so now I have an excuse to ignore you and be outraged at you!

    And yeah, I’d argue that sometimes it’s okay to decide that someone’s criticism is of yourself is not actually valid but you have to *think* about it first, not just have a knee-jerk reaction to imprecise phrasing and then stop listening. I’m sure pretty much everyone on the planet could find some way that they’re being oppressed but that doesn’t mean everyone on the planet is off the hook for criticism.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 11:48 pm ¶

34. Julian wrote:

    Wow. GREAT discussion here. One of the best I’ve read in the blogosphere in ages. Guess I need to visit here more often!!

    Thanks for clearing up the issue of all Jews not being white, Montclair Mommy. And I always call out any U.S. Ashkenazi Jew who claims to be “not white” here. Yup, y’ar. (I am too!)

    An African American friend of mine is in the process of converting (from a Christian upbringing) to Judaism. And for all we know a Jamaican Black woman, whether an immigrant in the U.S., or living in Jamaica, could also be Jewish. The Mizrahim (and also Sephardim) are so often invisibilised.

    Although James Baldwin did assume “all the Jews are white”, he did write a REALLY important essay on this like over forty years ago (1967) called “Negroes Are Anti-Semitic Because They are Anti-White”. If anyone here hasn’t seen it yet, the whole essay is here online: “http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/29/specials/baldwin-antisem.html

    Also, you may want to check out an excellent film, which tackles some of these issues, but not the indignities the Jamaican woman in the story above experienced, in so many egregious ways.

    It’s a movie about a Black teen woman who has been raised in a U.S. home with one white non-Jewish mom and her white Jewish other mom–a lesbian couple. The main character’s sibs are also of color (adopted) and she has some great dialogue about some of these issues with her insensitive brother. It’s called: Off and Running and you can learn more about it at http://offandrunningthefilm.com/ And it’s a documentary! Really worth seeing!!

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 2:31 am ¶

35. Shauna wrote:

    While the mother is totally in the wrong for threatening to fire the nanny, the nanny could have phrased herself much better. “You people don’t know how to act” implies that the employer had done something as well, and is very generalizing.

    I see so many people treat their “help” like this though–they’re so expendable. If the nanny spends any significant amount of time with the kids, he’s probably very attached to her and it would be detrimental to her own child’s health to just fire her.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 5:18 am ¶

36. BSK wrote:

    “Some people like you are racist towards me.”
    “That’s racist to say!”
    “Why?”
    “You said ‘people like you!’”
    “Well, I was talking about specific individuals in your neighborhood who, like you, are white and have engaged in obvious acts of racism towards me, a person they don’t know, based upon stereotypes or negative feelings about People of Color.”
    “You’re racist. You’re also fired. I’m so hurt by this.”

    Vomit.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 8:30 am ¶

37. girl4708 wrote:

    This woman obviously wasn’t required to take any multi-cultural curriculum anywhere.

    Every single one of us needs to be called a racist to our face and figure out just what that means.

    People who can’t see their own racism shouldn’t be allowed to adopt transracially or transculturally. Period.

    The persecution complex this woman has is worthy of some couch time…

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 8:31 am ¶

38. clare wrote:

    It’s also telling that she said “I’m going to have to fire her” not “I fired her”. If she fired the nanny, she’d be gone and this woman would have to take the child to his own playdates and playground trips, drive, read and maybe even cook until she found herself a new nanny. She doesn’t want to take that chance. She doesn’t even have the decency to give her the two weeks notice it would take to replace her. She’s going to replace the nanny, THEN fire her so it works out for herself but the nanny ends up unemployed suddenly, because she reluctantly told the employer what she insisted on hearing.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 10:24 am ¶

39. A.D. Nix wrote:

    Depending on where these women were situated, the ‘you people’ referred to by the childcare provider could also have a neighborhood-based gloss with all of its class implications as well.

    @ Julian
    I know ‘Off and Running’s director and didn’t even remember that it had already debuted. Thank you for the reminder! Good for Nicole.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 1:12 pm ¶

40. PPR_Scribe wrote:

    While the mother is totally in the wrong for threatening to fire the nanny, the nanny could have phrased herself much better. “You people don’t know how to act” implies that the employer had done something as well, and is very generalizing.

    Actually, I think this is a big part of the problem. Why was it the nanny’s responsibility to “better phrase” a private thought that her first instinct told her to keep to herself in the first place? Why did her employer even feel she was owed an explanation?

    Often in similar situations when I have been the less dominant POC to a more dominant White person, I have felt that the request for “sharing” was more about the other person’s power and need to demonstrate or “practice” the cross-cultural skills they assume they have. Then when they did not hear what they thought they would hear, the encounter does, indeed, remain about them. Note that I did not say “become” above—it was never about anyone else but them.

    As usual, the burden of making the other person comfortable, not hurting the other person’s feelings falls to the less powerful person in the relationship.

    And for everyone wondering what Carmen actually did/responded in this situation: While I cannot speak for her I know what I have done in similar situations where I have served in some expert/teacher/facilitator role. I have striven to maintain the integrity of the group and the dignity of the individual–no matter what level or variety of ignorance has come from them. I have to do so in a way that informs or corrects the person (or tries to), while also broadcasting to everyone that the space is a safe one to take a risk. But I have also had to make sure the people who recognize or even are hurt by the ignorance are assured that I will not let such things go unchecked, that the space is safe for them, too.

    It is exhausting sometimes.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 2:07 pm ¶

41. VHM wrote:

    I’m with cocolamala: exactly how does this woman think her adopted son is going to be treated for the rest of his life?

    Oh, but no…he’s “Jewish.” Sure, no confusion there. Everyone will be able to tell the difference, just by looking at him.

    Clare nailed it with her sleuthing over the phrase “I’m going to have to fire her.”

    And I agree with everyone else that “you people” in context referred to the locals (who happen to be wealthy and Jewish), not a slight against people specifically for their religious or ethnic roots.

    I feel sorry for the nanny, who trusted the word of her employer. And I feel deep sorrow for the boy, who is legally stuck with that woman at least until age 18 (unless he doesn’t act exactly according to her wishes…she can “fire” him too by relinquishing at any time).

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 4:47 pm ¶

42. louie wrote:

    @ Bagelsan and all

    I feel we often overlook the importance of race and space as well and how it affects perceptions of race. Your example of your childhood friend being classfied as “non-white” is right on point. I also agree that the whole talk in regards to whether or not all Jewish folx are white or not is complicated; however, white jews should be careful in thinking that they are “not” white. Just the same as light-skinned Raza should be weary of the same thing. My significant other is a light skin Mexicana, bilingual, fluent in spanish and english down to the grammar and although we speak spanglish mostly she leans heavier on spansih. I fall in the same category except I lean on english. In our city, the east side is 99% Mexican and we both live there. However, I met her on the south side which is predominantly old white wealth. When I saw her I thought she was white not just because of light skin but also because of the ontological space that signified, and in many ways, like many other places in the US, racialized, that she was white. On the other hand, had I met her on the east side, I would have thought she was a light skinned Mexicana that she really is. I spoke to her in english on the south side when I would have spoke to her in spanish on the east side! When I told her I thought she was white and began talking about white priveleges that she had she was annoyed at first. But when she realized WHY we had different perceptions on the police, education, and media she began to open up her mind and she realizes that she has had white priveleges…except when white folx figure out she’s not white. Then it becomes a case of “you fooled us”.
    I remember a discussion I had with an old classmate in college (sfsu) where she couldn’t understand who constituted as POC. Its pretty self explanatory to me, but her beef was with light-skinned Raza being labeled POC while Jews (I thought she was white when I fisrt met her but she assured me she was a “double-minority” because she is Jewish and bi-sexual. I aint lying folx. Trust. And she was born and raised in san francisco. But that’s a whole ‘notha post on how multiculturalism becomes a catalyst for oppression olympics!) Were all labeled as white. I told her that regardless of their nationality or religion POC are the folx you see on the streets that don’t look white. I feel folx like her are more dangerous than explicit racists. A lot of folx like this end up as teachers or counselors with many youth of color under this false notion of “saving” POC and if they don’t see potential problems they might experience because of their white skin then they will be going through major issues as oppose to knowing how you will be treated because of your white skin by youth of color and not take it personal but learn why they feel this way instead of absolving themselves of responsibility and the inequality that has come in large part to the privleges they receive form their white skin. I also agree that white parents that wish to adopt children of color should complete comprehensive workshops on becoming ANTI-racist.
    Its a complicated issue with no easy answers but we must tackle it everyday and check ourselves and others when we need to. Its an evryday battle. Peace be unto everyone.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 6:08 pm ¶

43. ashlynn wrote:

    I’m guessing the mother is cut from the “I Don’t See Color” cloth. She adopted her son, possibly feeling some sort or sorrow or pity for him, and for whatever reason decided that she was going to completely ignore all the issues surrounding international and interracial adoption. And by that, she put someone that she’s promised to love fully in harm’s way for no reason. This sounds very similar to Anita Tedaldi, and how her self-absorption enabled her to completely disrespect and disregard her (former) adopted child’s needs, and place the focus squarely on her. But clearly, the mother in this situation thinks that the black nanny and her black son are not the same- which they aren’t, but not for the reasons she’d like to believe (prob thinks the nanny was raised like some kind of heathen, whereas her son was and will be brought up the “right” way, aka with white privilege. ha).

    If I were Carmen, I would have shown her some photos of Black men, and studied/asked her about her reactions. If she comes off as distrustful or loathing, I’d try and explain to her that her son will grow up, and, based on the color of his skin alone, will incite the same reactions in woman like you. Potential love interests will not see his Jewish upbringing. They will take him at face value and, depending on their own level of empathy, not trust him, associate with him, or even recoil from him. If she truly wants the best for her son, she must look within herself and examine her motives, examine why she wants to fire the nanny.

    And on an aside, she thinks she doesn’t see color, but certainly does- after all, she hired a black, Jamaican nanny. She might have wanted some PoC influence around him, just not one that refuses to accept racial prejudice. so now, she’s got to find someone who will. OR I could just be giving her too much credit- she hired the nanny because she was cheap, and/or the only person willing to do that kind of work.

    End. Rant.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 6:20 pm ¶

44. Slush wrote:

    @BSK #36

    Very nice. Your paraphrasing puts such a clear point on things. I hope you will write some more such summaries, perhaps make a collection?

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 6:44 pm ¶

45. Kelly wrote:

    First of all, @Mars, being Jewish isn’t just a religion. Have you heard of secular Jews?

    No body likes to be referred to as an “other.” I’ve read tons of comments and such on here about people ranting over the terms “they” or “those people” “you people” and “that one.” So whether or not you think the level of the woman’s reaction was appropriate or not, I feel like it’s a bit of a double standard for us to not at least see her point when she was offended by the term “you people.”

    The nanny was in a very hurtful and emotional situation and perhaps her words could have been chosen in a more wise fashion. What happens if she was a nanny for an Asian, Latino, or Muslim family and she used the words “you people?” Would you all be responding the same way, or would this be another article on inter-minority racism? I feel that if we’re going to set a standard of what is acceptable or not, we should stick to it — not just when it’s convenient for us.

    The woman’s threats to fire the nanny were overrated and probably drama filled. But there’s two sides to every story and two sets of feelings to evaluate.

    Posted 21 Nov 2009 at 7:01 pm ¶

46. naomi wrote:

    I grew up in a close-knit Jewish community, and when I read this, I felt sure that the nanny WAS facing discrimination from a almost completely JEWISH source – the “you people” does unfortunately mean Jewish.

    In most urban Jewish communities, there are not just places of worship and Jewish schools, but also Jewish camps, Jewish bookstores, Jewish bakeries, delis, supermarkets and restaurants, Jewish doctors, Jewish social workers…. etc. Growing up, I saw how people – especially poc – were treated, when they entered these spaces without a clear “Jewish marking.” (A kippa on a man, or a head covering or skirt on a woman).

    If a group of white twenty somethings in short shorts came into a Jewish restaurant to order pizza, we would all stare at them. “What are they doing here?” We would ask, “Why are they in our space? They don’t belong here.”

    As an undergrad at the University of Michigan, I was a peer facilitator for a student dialogue on the intersection of ethnicity and race. (http://igr.umich.edu/) As a final project, all of the students in the dialogue had to go out and apply some of what we talked about to their lives.

    One of the projects stands out :
    The group had three members, an african-american woman, a jewish american woman, and a chinese-american man. For their project, they chose to go to spaces that they felt stereotypically defined their experiences in SE Michigan: a barber shop in Detroit, a bakery in the suburbs and a restaurant in Ann Arbor.

    They sent in the two members of the group who were not of that race/ethnicity, and asked to receive services. Then, the 3rd member of the group would enter the space, and explain that they were doing a sociology project for university, and they would talk about the demographics of who receives service in that space.

    As they presented their project, I felt … such anger towards other Jews. As the students retold their experiences of feeling PHYSICALLY UNSAFE in the bakery, after just ordering bread and making small chitchat, I see that nothing has changed since I was a child. Post-racial WHAT. This predominately Ashkenazi-white-Jewish community that is visible in the US extends no hands. Fools are afraid, of what?

    No no, there is no doubt in my mind. You people? That’s us Jews. We’re failing at this dialogue. Shame on that mother, for being so blind to our own communities sickening discrimination.

    All other Jews, especially those of us working as educators, artists and social workers in our communities, NEED to speak up and name this racism that we have let ourselves become compliant with.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 12:29 am ¶

47. DigitalCoyote wrote:

    @Girl4708:

    I agree, but the problem is that most people like her don’t realize they are racist and their peers only serve to reinforce this. For whatever reason, “racist” has been slapped squarely on the head of Cletus the Slackjawed Yokel and has never come near the more well-to-do. It could be buried in all that “traditional values” code that’s tossed about these days. When people have relegated racist behavior to being only the most egregious and overt, they ignore their own actions. I see this every week in my Criminal Justice class.

    ———-

    I find this piece sadly amusing. The nanny, who says she likes being there, is raising red flags: not only are her employers’ peer group treating her badly, but the way they behave translates in to a sad future for their adopted child.

    I have to wonder if part of the mother not feeling “safe” around the nanny has to do with her privilege being questioned. By saying things are wrong in the environment in which the child is being raised in, the nanny has effectively told the emperor that her “I don’t see color”/savior clothes aren’t real.

    Her response? “White woman’s tears,” as the kids call it. It’s a pretty common trick used to derail meaningful conversation and take the spotlight away from whomever disagrees. That she is Jewish gives it more of an emotional punch because she can say her people–meaning those of her faith–are being persecuted with this statement and not people like her who are oblivious to anything beyond themselves and their immediate interests.

    Part of me is willing to extend her a tiny bit of the benefit of the doubt because of my life experiences. My “other” dad is white and he really does forget that his privilege doesn’t protect me. When he catches on to some shadiness, though, watch out. *is looking at you Boston PD* He goes from life of the party to grizzly bear in 2.3 seconds. The students he teaches–mostly not white–like him because he “gets” it. Does he mess up every now and again? Yes, but he doesn’t shut down and stick his fingers in his ears if you point it out to him. Because of his life experiences and where he grew up, he’s got a lot of stories that aren’t so different from ours. Empathy, like Carmen said. Empathy.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 3:44 am ¶

48. Jenny wrote:

    Thank you so much for this post. It’s one that shakes me deeply, all the more, because I, like most people of color, have had this exact experience. Another sad aspect is when you realize person who believes he/she has been victimized is so ignorant and so self-absorbed that he/she immediately assumed you would be a sympathetic ear, as if I would of course feel outraged for the person who has to suffer the indignity of being lumped into ‘you people’ and not the person who actually experienced very real and very saddening discrimination..

    Jenny

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 4:55 pm ¶

49. mute wrote:

    @Julian in 34.

    I saw “Off and Running” a couple months ago and really enjoyed it. I second your recommendation.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 5:28 pm ¶

50. Margari Aziza wrote:

    I think that her insensitivity also shows in her overblown reaction to the unfortunate word choice of an immigrant woman who was probably unaware of the racial discourse in America and our notions of political correctness. I really hope that woman has a chance to read the article and comments so that she can see how her actions reflected both an extreme exercise of privilege and abuse of power.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 6:40 pm ¶

51. ashlynn wrote:

    @naomi: very true, very true. I live in Brooklyn, and whenever I pass through the Jewish section of Crown Heights, I feel a distinct chill from the Jewish people of the area. If I get on the train and get a seat first, the men and women will give me a withering look- that is, if I’m even worthy of a look that day at all. Granted, this doesn’t apply to every Orthodox person I’ve come in contact with- usually older people who I suppose keep a stricter faith. Regardless, it’s no secret that there are still major tensions between Black and Jewish people. I wish I knew how to word this without potentially pointing fingers, but when something happens between these two communities (on a scale large or small), both parties feel horribly victimized. So I get the mother’s reaction, but being that it was most likely Jewish people that the nanny felt were discriminating against her, she really was wrong for acting and reacting like she did.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 7:26 pm ¶

52. ray wrote:

    Please forgive my grammar and sentence structure.
    First of all I know we don’t have alot of time but here goes.
    To deconstruct racism we have to start at the beginning.( short version) from my research ,before the Europeans got into the slave trade people were known by their tribe and clan affiliation. (Arabs were also involved in enslaving the Africans,another story)
    Anyway a racial pecking order has been set up on planet earth which I am sure readers of this blog are aware of.

    White on top as in White Supremacy and Black on the bottom as in Black inferiority.
    Everybody fighting and jockeying for position trying to get to as close to White (European) as possible.

    Now we take the people who practice the religion of Judaism. If you are a reader of what is commonly referred to as the King James (NIV) Protestant Bible the people of the book were known as Hebrews,the children of Abraham father also of Islam and Christianity.they became known as Jews because these were the people who returned Judea, after being captured by invaders. Some historians refer to it as the Roman province of Palistia. Before the Romans there were the Babylonians of King Nebecunezzar, the first invaders and then Cyrus of thePersian Empire took him out.

    Ashkenazi-Jews that mainly desended from
    from European Jewry, White folks.

    Sephardim-Commonly referred to the Jews
    who were kicked out of Spain and to Jews of
    what we know to be the Middle East of Arab decent. All Arabs are not Muslim some practice Judaism and some practice Christianity.

    Falasha-Jews who are from Ethiopia,Black folks.There is also a tribe on f Black folks in the western African nation of Ghana who practice Judaism.
    This is the Jewish Religion’s and Racial pecking order.

    From my understanding the Jews are a Race of people who practice the religion of Judaism with some different ethnicity’s within it.
    Now we have to take all this into consideration as well as the tremendous amount of pain and suffering that has been inflicted on these folks.(Not to say that the African Slave Trade, Armenian Genocide, Native American Genocide and the current injustice and suffering and dispossession
    of land inflicted upon the Palestinian People is any less)when we try to analyze and understand the behavior and response of this mother of an adoptive COC after promised the nanny that she was in a safe environment to express her feelings.

    The shortest is has she know shame.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 8:29 pm ¶

53. Chana wrote:

    Ashlynn, “it’s no secret that there are still major tensions between Black and Jewish people.” I think you mean white Jewish people, since there not all Jews are white, and some are black. There are people who are black AND Jewish. Acting as if they’re distinct makes it harder to address the very real racism against black people within the Jewish community and outside of it.

    Also, the “distinct chill from the Jewish people” can mean a lot of things. Very Orthodox men often avoid looking at women at all. As Naomi said, Orthodox communities can be very close-knit and exclusive to everyone else, including even other Jews.

    I’m not trying to apologize for or excuse this example of racism. I just think misunderstanding about Jews and acting like they’re all white is counterproductive to addressing racism in the Jewish community and white Jewish people’s racism.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 10:50 pm ¶

54. JC wrote:

    As a Jew, this story saddens me. Too many of our people are taught a xenophobic siege mentality when it comes to outsiders and to Israel. Of course, this can vary drastically between Jewish communities; I’d be interested to know where this incident took place and which Jewish sect this woman is a part of.

    I am a religious Ashkenazi Jew but honestly when the question about Jews and whiteness comes up I always answer white. Despite historical racialist trends like Nazism, Jews in the USA who are Ashkenazi benefit from white privilege and so this makes us white in my mind. Besides, if Ashkenazim aren’t white, what differentiates us from Jews of color?

    Lastly, I think this is a wake up call that we could use some anti-racist training and a lessening of xenophobia and the oppression olympics in the Jewish community. Sometimes I’m horrified by what I see on blogs by Jews of color like MaNishtana or Aliza Hausman.

    As for the woman’s black Jewish child, hopefully he will learn to JOC slap (see this link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uztlHUGFQXo) from an early age.

    Posted 22 Nov 2009 at 11:20 pm ¶

55. Jess wrote:

    I hope this doesn’t get too lost down here.

    Anyhow, seeing the woman’s reaction I think two things went on, neither good:

    1. She heard “you people” and shut off. This is sort of understandable. We all have code phrases that do this, and for a lot of people here I bet there are a few. The problem is that prevented her from listening to anything else.

    2. The next step is one that happens a lot between black folks and Jewish folks. There is a sense, among many Jews, (I have felt it myself) that while we get certain white privileges, we only got them because we kicked the door down as it were. Like, you get rich enough and elect enough people and now the WASPS and Germans and other folks can’t mess with you anymore.

    What that means is that you see privilege as something that can be taken away at any moment. (See Germany as Exhibit A). I for one don’t think this is particularly rational, but there it is (people are not terrifically rational a lot of the time).

    It’s also a bit of the reason why a lot of Jews are liberals, by the way.

    Anyway, what this can mean, viz. dealing with PoC (and black people especially as they are the PoC that Jews deal with the most, for all kinds of historical reasons that are, by and large, complete accidents) that when you hear a black person say something ignorant, or something you think is ignorant and even anti-Semitic, it’s even more painful. Because the thought is, “hey, you ought to know.” I stress thinking something is anti-Semitic because sometimes we see/hear that and it ain’t quite so. There is such a thing as knee-jerk reactions, I am looking at you, Foxman [head of the ADL].

    Now I know that privilege is a bit more complicated than that, in my frontal cortex, where all the rational stuff goes on. But that doesn’t alter the emotional impact of hearing black people say anti-semitic things. I expected that stuff from certain kids growing up. I didn’t expect it from PoC kids I knew. I think that’s the reason Farrakhan and his ilk get so much play from the ADL and other Jewish organizations.

    Now, in this case, I will be clear, the nanny did not mean to say anything anti-semitic. Intention matters and had the woman listened an extra second and calmed down, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    But again, sometimes our emotions get the better of us. And this woman let hers get in the way of clear thinking.

    (This is one reason why whenever anyone says “trust your feelings” I say, “yes, I can trust they will almost always be wrong.”)

    Posted 23 Nov 2009 at 12:31 am ¶

56. Mario wrote:

    first. safe space my ass!

    second. sorry for the typos and bad spelling.

    sounds like the mother suffers from what I like to call, “M.O.M.S.” Multiple Oppressed Minority Syndrome. It is common in white people who happen to also be part of an oppressed community. they opperate on white guilt by saving oppressed communities (in this case, her child’s caretaker and her child) but still understand oppression from other parts of themselves (in this case, being a woman and jewish). they tend to ignore their privelage and try to highlight where they feel oppression, their by justifying and/or ignoring where they exude their privelage.

    sometimes M.O.M.S gets so deep people begin to claim they have other oppressed identities. they begin to discover indigenious/P.O.C bloodlines. then they change their names to match these so called bloodlines to appear more oppressed. then they appropriate clothing, ceremony, and speech. inturn taking up more space as a “more” oppressed person but really just exuding more privelage.

    Posted 23 Nov 2009 at 2:52 am ¶

57. Anka wrote:

    Louie wrote:

    “I told her that regardless of their nationality or religion POC are the folx you see on the streets that don’t look white.”

    It makes perfect sense why someone would have this perception, but I have to disagree based on my own experience. I’m more or less half Sephardic (Jewish subgroup seen as nonwhite by other Jews–we seem to not really exist for many non-Jews) of Middle Eastern origin, and half Eastern European non-Jew. I “pass” for white, as do some of my Sephardic relatives. Others always assume, when they hear that I’m Jewish, that I’m Ashkenazic because I’m light-skinned and have somewhat “European” features and a Slavic last name. Even after they learn otherwise, I have often still been expected to assume the identity (and attending history, customs, etc.) of Ashkenazic Jews, synonymous with a white/Jewish identity, because that’s what I look like. But that’s not who I am, even though that’s who I look like and that’s who I “could” be.

    I think Michael Dorris described feelings about mixed-blood identity and passing very well in one of his essays:

    “Growing up mixed-blood is, for too many of us and for too long in our lives, growing up mixed up. Dual identity may eventually be an advantage for empathy, may greatly benefit us if we become a psychiatrist or a writer or a counselor, but while it’s happening it’s usually not much fun. It demands wariness, humility, patience, and the lonely nurturing of a self-image strong enough to stand up to all challengers, whether intentionally malevolent or merely stupid. It inspires our jealousy toward those who don’t seem to face the same problems we do because they look the way we feel, and simultaneous guilt because they often suffer or are discriminated against for that very otherwise enviable quality. ”

    As disheartening and frustrating, or even infuriating, as it may be when it seems that people (Jews or others) with with marginal/mixed/”passing”/otherwise not-neatly-defined identities are claiming POC status while simultaneously enjoying white privilege, it is still for them to decide who they are and how they choose to represent themselves to others, whether or not others see them that way. If they don’t do this, they may in a sense be doubly erased–both by white communities and by POC communities, for whom they may never be “enough” of one or the other. I say this as a Jew, as someone of mixed Jewish and non-Jewish ancestry, and as someone of mixed white and nonwhite Jewish ancestry.

    That said, even as I feel the usual visceral inner recoiling at reading “you people don’t know how to act,” I still believe that the mother in the anecdote, given her situational position of privilege and power, ought to have made the effort to understand where the nanny was coming from and offer solidarity and support, and not automatically reacted as she did. She had an opportunity to show empathy and understanding and she did not. (And I fear for her poor son growing up with such a frighteningly, seemingly deliberately unaware person!) However, I don’t think this is an entirely clear-cut matter of oppression olympics and “white woman’s tears.”

    And I agree that Jewish communities, particularly very observant ones, can be very defensively closed off and prejudiced against perceived outsiders (I’ve been on the receiving end of that as well due to my mixed heritage), but without a full understanding of both parties, it will be awfully hard to solve conflicts like this.

    Posted 23 Nov 2009 at 4:28 am ¶

58. chewishfamily wrote:

    I wouldn’t advise attributing any attitudes displayed in this story to any population at large. This is one woman, one nanny. It’s a story about really trying to hear what another person is saying.

    Posted 23 Nov 2009 at 1:07 pm ¶

59. Julia Su. wrote:

    Anti-Semitism is real.

    And so is racism.

    Obviously the employer was being short-sighted and focusing on what felt to her like anti-Semitism, while overlooking the racism the employee was experiencing.

    But everyone saying “Oh, the nanny couldn’t have meant anything anti-Semitic in her comment” is kind of overlooking that that really isn’t the point—although the employer has white privilege, she does not have Gentile privilege, which is still real in the 21st century, and “you people” is a valid trigger for someone’s memories of having experienced anti-Semitism, just as it is a valid trigger for someone’s memories of having experienced racism.

    Of course the employer should have moved beyond that and, in addition to discussing the racism the employee had experienced, have gone on to have a conversation about what the employee meant by “you people” and why that phrase affected the employer so strongly, rather than moving right to ‘OH NOES MY NANNY IS AN ANTI-SEMITE I MUST FIRE HER.’

    But it’s not like one experience of discrimination “trumps” another experience of discrimination to the point of canceling it out entirely.

    Posted 23 Nov 2009 at 4:45 pm ¶

60. 9jah wrote:

    Fortunately, I’ve had very close and positive relationships with jewish people all my life so as not to draw a larger pattern from this. It is also encouraging that many, if not most, of the jewish posters are sympathetic to the experience of the nanny in the community.

    That said, when is it okay to say “you people?” I know that black folks sensitivity to this is that it often involves generalization by people who have not interacted with black folks at all. So a white person comes across one black person who cheats them and thinks “you people.” But when the experience of the nanny is that virtually the entire community shuns her, is it not more of a factual question?

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 11:26 am ¶

61. JL wrote:

    Anka’s post resonated with me a lot (I’m mixed Sephardi/Ashkenazi/Gentile). White and Ashkenazi privileges WITHIN the Jewish community would be worth their own posts.

    Sounds like the mother completely missed the point. Reading the post, I had some idea of how it was going to end based on the context, but my head hit my desk anyway when it got to that part.

    Is it possible that the nanny DID intend anti-Semitism? Yes. But it’s not what I would have assumed in the mother’s place. I would have assumed that she meant white people, well-off people, and people born in the US – not necessarily in that order – before coming to anti-Semitism.

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 2:26 pm ¶

62. Minotaar wrote:

    Wait, there are Ashkenazi privileges WITHIN the Jewish community? Like “You arent as Jewish as we are,” business? Please explain.

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 3:50 pm ¶

63. Kay wrote:

    I think both parties in this article made grave mistakes in their interactions. Firstly, the Jamaican nanny made a mistake by exploding at her employer [who is White and Jewish] after having been treated with so much adversity by the White, Jewish people in the neighborhood and saying “You people don’t know how to act!” This was wrong because the mother was by no means at fault for the nanny’s experiences of discrimination, nor was she even aware of them prior to this encounter. By saying “You people,” the nanny grouped her employer with the rude people who were responsible for her negative experiences, which was no doubt extremely offensive to the mother. Perhaps if the nanny had said instead, “The people in this neighborhood don’t know how to act,” she and the mother would have been able to engage in a calm discourse regarding her experiences, in which the mother could really empathize with her.
    The mother in turn, reacted inappropriately by completely overlooking the nanny’s descriptions of her experiences of discrimination in her [the mothers] neighborhood and then continuing to assume the nanny’s comment was an attack towards her, as well as an attack on other people of her faith. In addition, she reacted even more inappropriately by judging from this outburst, that she and her son were no longer safe with this nanny and that the most appropriate step was to fire her. Had she really taken into account what the nanny had confessed to her, she might have not reacted so strongly to the nanny’s outburst and simply judged it as a misdirected expression of genuine distress and sorrow.
    While it is obvious that both individuals acted inappropriately, it would be a mistake to say that they did acted unnaturally and unpredictably. After extensive exposure to discrimination by the members of the mainly White and Jewish community in which she worked, the nanny could not help but draw a connection between the way she was being treated and the people who were treating her that way – White, Jewish people. This recognizing and making connections among different things that usually accompany each other is a natural, evolutionarily adaptive behavior. Unfortunately, some of the byproducts of this evolutionarily adaptive behavior are not so adaptive – racism, stereotypical thinking, and false generalizations. The nanny failed to recognize that her employer, who also happened to be White and Jewish, did not treat her with any adversity. In fact, in her telling the mother that she loved working her and her family, it can be extrapolated that the mother was a warm, kind person.
    Continuing, the mother, in her disbelief with and decision to fire her nanny was also acting naturally and predictably. After all, the nanny did make quite a strong and offensive statement about the mother’s group – White Jews. It is normal, when one is particularly attached to his/her group and that group is threatened, to retaliate against and/or withdraw from the threatening person or people. In her outburst, the nanny portrayed herself in a very threatening manner, thus explaining the mother’s reactions. In further support of the mother’s new discomfort with her nanny and her desire to dismiss her, would any individual really feel safe and want to continue working with another individual who had made a negative comment about his/her group? I absolutely wouldn’t if I had a choice.
    Unfortunately cross-racial interactions like this one seem to be the rule and not the exception. It is too often the case that interracial conflicts result from an initial misunderstanding or misinterpretation of ambiguous behaviors and or statements. It is our duty then to make certain that in interracial contexts, according to the popular cliché, we monitor ourselves such that we “say what [we] mean and mean what [we] say.” In addition, equally importantly, we must assume that others do not necessarily always say what they mean and mean what they say. In conclusion, the benefit of the doubt is a powerful thing, bringing all of us forward when we receive it and make a conscious effort to give it.

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 4:07 pm ¶

64. Ruchama wrote:

    Wait, there are Ashkenazi privileges WITHIN the Jewish community? Like “You arent as Jewish as we are,” business? Please explain.

    Within the US (there are also plenty of issues with this in other places, but I don’t know enough about them to really explain it well), it’s largely that someone Jewish is assumed to be Ashkenazi. Synagogues, Hebrew Schools, Jewish camps, Jewish schools, and so on, are pretty much run with the assumption that members/students will all be Ashkenazi. In things where there are differences in custom or tradition between the Ashkenazi and Sephardic communities, the Ashkenazi one is frequently taught and thought of as “the Jewish way,” with no mention that there’s a huge population of Jewish people who do it differently. I’ve heard several stories of Sephardic kids going to American Jewish schools and being told that the way their family followed Jewish custom was wrong. (In my experience, I think that the summer camp that I went to actually took the time to think about these issues and present all the different people and customs as Jewish, but the Hebrew school I went to barely acknowledged any Jews other than Ashkenazim. So, it varies.)

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 4:46 pm ¶

65. JC wrote:

    @Minotaar –

    Ashkenazi privelege refers to taking the concept of white privilege and applying it to the Jewish community. For example, a black Jew may never see faces in the synagogue or Jewish books or Jewish media that look like him/her or a non-white Jew is more likely to have their Jewishness questioned than a white person in a synagogue. Since the Jewish community in the USA is whiter than the country as a whole, this can be a very acute problem.

    This does not mean that one group of Jews has some sort of material or spiritual privilege over another, only that a version of white privilege exists for Ashkenazi Jews within the American Jewish community.

    Most of the “you aren’t as Jewish as we are” stuff is related to matrilineal descent and converts, i.e. one group of Jews won’t accept the conversion performed by another and so on.

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 4:53 pm ¶

66. JL wrote:

    @Minotaar

    Ruchama and JC addressed your question, but I’ll add to their comments.

    Sephardi, Mizrahi, and other non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations are marginalized in US Jewish culture (I can’t speak to the Jewish cultures of other countries). “Jewish” language, cooking, and music are actually Ashkenazi (most Ashkenazim that I have talked to about this aren’t even aware that Ladino, the traditional language of Sephardim, exists, let alone the various Mizrahi languages). A “Jewish” surname is an Ashkenazi surname.

    In popular culture, depictions of Jews are common, but you hardly ever see non-Ashkenazi Jews depicted. Even when non-Ashkenazi Jews are doing the depicting – I guess they don’t think people will recognize non-Ashkenazi characters as Jewish.

    A fascinating example of the whitewashing of Jewish depiction in popular culture is Seinfeld. Most people don’t realize that Jerry Seinfeld the comedian is mixed – he has a Syrian Jewish mother (Syrian Jews are usually mixed Sephardi/Mizrahi) and an Ashkenazi father. But the character of the same name that he played on Seinfeld was a white Ashkenazi Jew.

    Similarly, Matt Stone, one of the creators of the TV show South Park, is supposedly the inspiration for Jewish protagonist Kyle Broflovski. But Stone is Sephardi and Irish, while the character Kyle has two Ashkenazi parents (so they’ve removed both the mixed-ness and the Sephardi-ness to create the character).

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 5:55 pm ¶

67. Steve wrote:

    I think this anecdote clearly illustrates how much work we as a society still have to do in terms of mending race relations.

    One would imagine that minorities/oppressed groups would understand one another’s struggles and would, in turn, be empathetic toward one another, but this isn’t always the case. In fact, this is probably rarely the case.

    High identification and association with our in-group make us protective of that group. In this case, the Jewish mother took offense to the “you people” because she interpreted it as a prejudice that the Jamaican nanny had. And the nanny, in relating the discrimination she felt while in the Jewish neighborhood, rushed to make generalizations about Jewish people in general.

    While it can be argued that both the mother and the nanny are equally responsible for the exchange they had, I’m more sympathetic toward the nanny. Often times, racial minorities have problems articulating the discrimination that they feel; they also struggle to articulate the injustice toward the people they believe are discriminating and belittling them as human beings. Anger from the experiences generates a lot of irrational thoughts and unfair generalizations. Racial minorities are not without flaw; they themselves, obviously, can have discriminatory beliefs and do.

    In this scenario, however, the mother actually insisted that the nanny tell her why she was upset. She even said that the nanny was in a safe space and that she wouldn’t be judged, “no matter what it was about.”

    Taking the mother for her word, the nanny opened up about the discrimination she faced while working within the Jewish neighborhood. In her anger, she had said that “You people don’t know how to act!”

    The mother disregarded the nanny’s account of discrimination and only focused on the nanny’s use of the word “You people.” The mother was offended, yet did not take adequate measures to discuss the situation, about how she felt about being referred to as “You people,” and about the discrimination that the nanny experienced.

    I’m not saying that it’s the responsibility of the mother to engage in a civil discussion about race and about what she was offended by, but I do believe that the mother rushed to conclusions. In being called “you people,” she forgot that the nanny was upset in the first place and that discrimination from the Jewish community was what upset her.

    I also find it interesting that, even though the mother had adopted a child from an African country, she showed an incredible amount of sensitivity toward the topic of race. She did not take the opportunity to explain why, for example, she was offended by being labeled as “you people.” Instead, she perhaps closed off when the nanny said “you people” and inferred that the nanny was now dangerous and out to get her and her son (whom the mother is raising in her faith). Should she really consider firing the nanny for something she related in confidence? What exactly makes her think the nanny is unsafe?

    I’m also going to give the nanny the benefit of the doubt and say that she may not have been aware of how “you people” would be interpreted as a derogatory phrase toward Jews. Sure, the holocaust is a standard part of the curriculum in the U.S. educational system, but people don’t generally carry and apply everything they learn in school. Also, the nanny could have meant “you people” as in you white people.

    Again, I don’t it’s entirely the Jewish mother’s responsibility to enter into a thorough discussion about race with the nanny, but her adoption of an interracial baby should make her consider being more open about discussing race.

    If the nanny experienced racism in her neighborhood, how then will she handle the matter when her son experiences it?

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 7:24 pm ¶

68. Asian guy wrote:

    this is why I , as an Asian American, am against most trans-national adoptions. So many of these prospective parents have a ’savior complex’, that they are ‘rescuing’ this child from the backwards and barabaric culture where this child would otherwise grow up in. These condescending, racist assholes are the ones that’ll make the kid they have grow up with messed up identity issues that they’ll have to go through. So yeah, selfish adoptive ‘parents’ can suck it

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 7:42 pm ¶

69. ashlynn wrote:

    @Chana,

    My apologies for being a little sleepy on that last post. To clarify- Yes, I do mean black people and White Jewish people- there are WAY too many “Save the Ethiopian Jews” in my train station to not know that. I am working from a standpoint in that, at least in America, Jewish people of color go largely ignored/unidentified/acknowledged -again, unless you’re “Saving” them..see where that’s going?

    As for the chill factor- yes, I am aware that those who follow a strict Orthodox tradition generally don’t look at women directly. But in my example I clearly said that if I am acknowledged, it is in a fairly negative way by both men AND women. Now granted, on the train, there are people who will eye-murder you if you take their (perceived) seat- me being one of them if the offense is egregious. But, in a way that I unfortunately cannot pinpoint, there is a difference there that I strongly feel is attributed to my race. And to continue to get back on track, because Orthodox communities are so exclusive, and because black communities are often reluctant to reach out unless it is to strike or strike back, there is very little way for the black and Orthodox community, at least on a person to person basis, to communicate that, “Hey, it’s not you, it’s just in my faith men do not look at women,” or “Listen, for many black people, certain looks that may be just everyday annoyances can be taken as prejudice in my community.”

    Posted 24 Nov 2009 at 11:58 pm ¶

70. sandeep wrote:

    i think you can’t expect people to be empathetic. the lady was put into a strange situation and she freaked. she put a wall up between herself and the issue, and then defensively insulted the nanny until she no longer felt threatened. that’s pretty normal behavior. it isnt helpful or healthy, and it is self destructive. but it’s not the nanny’s job to fix her employer. the nanny should just pick herself up, find someone else to work with and get on with her life. also the longer she’s in america the more she’ll get used to racism. me as a brown-skinned indian descent person, i had a bit of a rough change-over, but the key is to think of how you’d consider another races’ racism, and then apply that to yourself no matter how squeamish that may be. there’s bad things in the world and there’s healthy way to react to them. and you shouldn’t expect to recieve help from an unqualified stranger. it takes a surprising level of understanding to make a difference in these situations.

    Posted 25 Nov 2009 at 11:46 am ¶

71. Katie wrote:

    This thread has really ended up centering the white employer’s experiences at the expense of the experience of the nanny (in a way, mirroring the original interaction that they had).

    I think many people here are missing the point. If someone calls out their own oppression as they see it, perhaps using language that frustrates you, will you still be able to hear it? Or will you make it all about you?

    Posted 25 Nov 2009 at 11:50 am ¶

72. pololly wrote:

    Ugh, The tortured contortions people are doing here to try and erase the employer’s (class and white) privilege in this situation are embarassing.

    The defense of the employer on this thread is exactly why I ignore all the hand wringing over why oppressed groups can’t ‘all just get along’. Because you can only expect people to really look out for their own kind – 100% Fact. This is something that has only really been hammered home to me through reading racialicious actually.

    Yes, it’s very annoying and frustrating when someone of your race does something wrong, right? The temptation is to minimize, defend, and dismiss. I guess if I were Jewish, reading this story, my first reaction may be to try to label the nanny an anti-semite, and shift the blame. I would twist myself into knots trying to deny that most Jewish people have white privilege and so make the employer the victim of her *poorer black employee*. Completely irrelevant history and geneology lessons would spew forth *yawn*. I may even claim to be the voice for ‘black jews’ who don’t deserve to be ’silenced and made invisible’ (unlike the unimportant non Jewish black nanny). I might even convince myself.

    But I’d like to think that deep deep down, past all the bullshit and excuses, I’d know that this is why. This is why all the kumbaya, hold hands in a circle bs doesn’t work. Because everyone is so desperate to keep hold of their tiny bit of privilege that they are willing to spit on anyone in a worse position than them to get it. Even people who think they are enlightened enough to frequent blogs on race and pop culture.

    LOL, let’s continue shall we? More crappy rationalizations? I think the nanny was a secret Nation of Islam operative who had spent months writing anti-semitic attacks against her employer and woman didn’t know but her gut instinct told her something was up and she was wise to fire her.

    Posted 25 Nov 2009 at 7:43 pm ¶

73. karinova wrote:

    I can’t believe not one commenter explicitly put forth the notion that immediately sprang to my (coincidentally, Jamaican) mind: “you people” may very well include the mother.

    There’s a lot of (and I’m not picking on you for it, Kay; you just wrote it so clearly): “the mother was by no means at fault for the nanny’s experiences of discrimination, nor was she even aware of them… By saying “you people,” the nanny grouped her employer with the rude people who were responsible for her negative experiences…” But my Spidey-Sense is telling me she has been one of those rude people, or has been present and unhelpful when rudeness occurred. (The nanny is talking about this woman’s friends and neighbors, after all.) I took “I love working for this family” to be a softening of that reluctantly provided Unpleasant News Flash.

    Of course, I could be biased. In my somewhat-limited experience, when care workers say “I love working for this family!”– especially when they say it to their employer or people of their employers class/circle– they usually mean “I love my charge.” Sometimes they even mean “…so much that I can’t bear to leave hir without a loving ally in this horrorshow of a household!” Again, I could be wrong. But just look how Employerlady ended up reacting. I’m not inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. That poor kid.

    Also? I’m sure it was a paraphrase, but it’s remarkable that someone could adopt an anti-”ism”-ism like “this is a safe space” and be so damagingly clueless. She badgered her employee into a confession. How? By insisting that it was a safe space, so c’mon, spill it! Why? Duh: out of concern for the nanny. Wow. Worst part is, this is a woman who no doubt thinks she’s really progressive and helpful. She reminds me of those predatory men who truly believe they love women, who pick up the buzzwords of feminism… and use them to seduce women who would be otherwise uninterested. Without ever seeing the disconnect.

    Posted 28 Nov 2009 at 6:27 am ¶

74. karinova wrote:

    Sigh. Late-night tag failure.
    Only “so c’mon spill it!” was supposed to be italicized.

    Posted 28 Nov 2009 at 6:30 am ¶

75. submom wrote:

    The problem is: you “can’t” accuse the mother for behaving racist-ly ’cause she has adopted a “non-white” kid. A chapter of my dissertation talked about how the Korean adoptees faired in Minnesota. Through the interviews with several young women (a decade ago) I learned that adopting a non-white child is no guarantee that the parent would “get it”. You know how people would say, “I am not a racist. A best friend of mine is .”? Well…

    Posted 30 Nov 2009 at 12:33 pm ¶

76. Steve wrote:

    @ Asian guy,
    trans-national adoptions aren’t necessarily a bad thing. Adoptive parents are giving children what they wouldn’t otherwise have: a loving family and home. While the condescension may be evident in some cases, I think it has a lot to do with ignorance. For example, a lot of people still think Korea is a third world country, which it is NOT.

    I’ve always wondered, however, how people would feel if an Asian American adopted (and carried around) a White baby, or if a Black American adopted a White baby, but that’s besides the point…. The issue, really, I think is: by ignoring her employee’s claim of racism in her community, is the mother cognizant of the racial problems that her adopted son will feel? That, to me, is an issue that I believe most people are ignoring on here.

    Posted 30 Nov 2009 at 6:11 pm ¶

77. Weterly wrote:

    pollolly wrote:
    “I think the nanny was a secret Nation of Islam operative who had spent months writing anti-semitic attacks against her employer and woman didn’t know but her gut instinct told her something was up and she was wise to fire her.”

    Yeah. Meanie that she is, she probably also attended a few Farrakahn rallies (since someone already saw fit to bring him up in the discussion… )

    Because really, this isn’t about some rich woman with white skin privilege inviting a poorer WOC employee into her confidence and then firing her in high dudgeon because she was told some unflattering, if truthful things about her community that she didn’t like – oh no. This is really *about* black and Jewish non-bonding and Farrakahn *eye-roll*)

    Rationalisations and “white women tears” indeed.

    What I find hilarious is that for all of the preaching about intersectionality, there’s been little mention of the class disparity that underpinned this interaction. One participant was certainly far more powerful than the other in so many respects that it isn’t even funny.

    I have little patience with pampered, privileged people who contantly appeal to their own positive self-image and patronisingly want to play at being “liberal” or sensitive whatever inviting to share in the burden of someone else’s problems, only to start melodramatically keeling over like they’re Atlas when they’re actually forced to confront the reality of said problem.

    Simply put, she couldn’t handle some cold reality and resorted to white lady tears.

    I’m also with karinova about so many posters avoiding the implication that yes, the mother as a member of the community that the nanny was criticising may have been included in the criticism.

    And may have been deserving of it, even if her collusion only ran so far as being blissfully oblivious to what the woman who is looking after her child, endures on a daily basis (which is rather telling…)

    Posted 01 Dec 2009 at 3:11 am ¶

78. Ana wrote:

    It can be very disheartening to realize that so many individuals in our society go through life with blinders on. This mother’s lack of sensitivity to discrimination that is going on WITHIN her community is a little bit scary to me. She is raising a racially diverse family and should be aware of the unfortunate but real issues that her son may one day face. This mother apparently does not want to face the tragic truth of inequality that is plaguing society so she immediately stands on the defensive end. Sometimes it is so hard to know what to do in situations like these. I wish this woman an eye-opening view of the realities that ARE a part of her world.

    Posted 01 Dec 2009 at 3:26 am ¶

79. hana wrote:

    Transracial adoption, when handled well, calls for a lot of education and raising awareness about racism in our society and for exploring the racial messages, beliefs and prejudices that we are immersed in as members of this society, and that we carry within us consciously or not.

    One of the main themes when you read criticisms of international adoption from now adult adoptees is that too many families believed that love and an adoption decree somehow eliminated the child’s ‘differentness’ within the family. While their families might have seen the approach as complete integration into the identity of the family, as if somehow to acknowledge difference would distance the child from the family and make the child feel unaccepted, some adoptees felt that the opposite was true–this denial of difference was the thing that created distance between them and their parents, and made them feel unacceptable, because a major part of their identity and sense of self was simply denied.

    Not having grown up learning how to cope with racism on a daily basis, most white parents do not come equipped with the know-how for helping their transracially adopted children deal with what may come. This is not insurmountable, of course. But there is a challenging process adoptive parents must undergo to become aware of the daily presence of racist attitudes, words and behaviors all around us–things we might not have noticed because we were never the target. A Jewish adoptive parent, such as the woman in the story, might have an understanding of the experience of antisemitism, but might also wrongly believe that the racism experienced by Jews and Blacks is somehow equivalent.

    Some adoption agencies require prospective parents to attend classes or retreats to learn how to become a parent to a child of another race–this should be required across the board. I have heard some people who attended such sessions say that it was very challenging, even painful at times, to look deep within one’s self and to look closely at one’s family and friends, to discover the assumptions previously gone unnoticed. I once heard one person say that she learned that just as the child will integrate into her family’s identity and ethnic heritage, she and the family will also need to see themselves as entering their child’s identity and culture. They cannot simply see themselves as a white family with an African child. They must begin to see themselves altogether as transracial family.

    The comment mentioned above–that the woman in the story, as many Jews, might not see herself as “White” because she identifies as a member of a minority group, is astute. But this is a good example of the kind of naivete that all of us who are White (Jewish or not), are prone to. Yes, we can identify first as Jews (or whatever). But to not be able to recognize the privileges that we automatically benefit from simply by being White in our society–that we take so for granted–this is a major knowledge deficit that prevents true recognition of the ills of pervasive racism, and–for a parent about to adopt a child who is a person of color–it is a deficit that seriously impedes their ability to parent such a child.

    Pre-adoptive education and consciousness raising is essential, but of course not sufficient. For adoptive parents, the process of learning how the child experiences the world and themselves within it, is a lifetime process. But it must begin even before an agency commits to placing a child with a family.

    As for the woman in the story–I suspect her anger is just completely misplaced. Perhaps she is not ready to recognize that members of her own community might harbor racist attitudes (that might also lie, unexamined, deep within herself, as well) that might very well someday be aimed at her son.

    Another nice comment above is: “When one person is affected, it can affect us all.” Reminds me of the Fannie Lou Hamer quote, “Nobody’s free until everybody’s free.”

    Posted 14 Dec 2009 at 12:51 pm ¶