Comments

1. prvlgd cdn wrote:

   If anything, I would have guessed the reverse would have been true regarding Hustle & Flow and Dreamgirls vs. Nutty Professor etc. w/r/t international appeal.

   If Hustle & Flow is “arthouse,” I’d figure it (and any independent US stuff) is likely to be out-competed in international markets by locally made films, which don’t go toe-to-toe with big-bidget Hollywood, but tell stories from the local community with arthouse production values.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 9:25 am ¶

2. Jadey wrote:

   Wow, I didn’t even see the black couple in the FIRST picture right away. Way to stick them in the very back, dudes. If I were a more suspicious person than I am, I might even think that the original presentation was designed for “easy removal”. Or… maybe the same reason that the couple was erased is the same reason they were stuck at the back in extra fun-size version — the [unfounded] presumption that POC are not viable in the entertainment market, international or domestic.

   I’m curious as to why Eddie Murphy would ever be seen as the defining figure in Black cinema. I mean, what the hell? Really? Is he the first person people think of when they think of African American actors? I mean, even keeping with the mainstream, what about Will Smith and Denzel Washington? I thought those guys were huge, and they do quite a bit of non-Norbit-like stuff. Then add to that guys like Jamie Foxx, Don Cheadle, Sidney Poitier, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson, Wesley Snipes… Aren’t these all big name, mainstream Hollywood actors who play protagonist roles in blockbuster hits and direct and/or produce some of their own films, or am I actually that naive and out of touch?

   (Duly noting that I could only think of *male* actors of this stripe, so just for my own peace of mind: Viola Davis, Jill Scott, and Angela Bassett! Also incredible performers, if not given the same media love. I think I have to go watch some movies now.)

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 9:59 am ¶

3. Eva wrote:

   I’ve never understood this “international appeal” I mean isn’t it true that French audiences loved Jerry Lewis?

   I don’t believe that movies with black people don’t travel well overseas when it’s not that way with music.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 9:59 am ¶

4. The Black Bot wrote:

   So movies with whites appeal to every group, but those with Black actors don’t? Don’t buy it. A story’s a story. Their prejudices are just stopping them from enjoying it.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:03 am ¶

5. atlasien wrote:

   I think there are several different kinds of films that do very well overseas:

   1) films that reflect a privileged, well-to-do, very white viewpoint. People all over the world can relate to this, even though it bears almost no resemblance to their lives, because it’s universalized as an aspirational ideal. In other words, the film is letting the audience peek in a window and see how the luckiest people in the world live.
   2) pure physical comedy. This translates really well… someone slipping on a banana peel is funny in any language. But once you get past the physical aspect, comedy is very difficult to translate.
   3) violence: stuff blowing up in big exciting explody explosions. But I don’t think sex sells as well as violence internationally, because what’s “sexy” varies a lot more according to culture.
   4) movies that were explicitly made for cross-cultural audience appeal. I’m thinking of Slumdog Millionaire, which was a huge international hit.
   5) kids movies with talking animals.

   I think that movies headed by African-American actors are not going to succeed in category 1, obviously, but they can and do succeed in others. To me, the EW argument about comedies — that many movies with African-American casts are comedies with culturally-specific humor that doesn’t travel well — sounds the most convincing. If there existed more VARIETY of African-American movies in Hollywood, more of it would travel overseas. Yes, international racism is part of the equation, but lack of variety caused by domestic racism is probably the biggest part.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:19 am ¶

6. April wrote:

   Yes, this supposed barrier makes no sense. Many black entertainers have been received much more warmly internationally than they ever have in the U.S. It’s probably the way the studios market it abroad. Judging by how they market so-called “black” films statewide, my guess is that it’s not done very effectively.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:20 am ¶

7. See Hear Feel wrote:

   I’m surprised this is just now going mainstream, because I saw it covered on another site about 3 months ago, when the movie was in theatres, but it didn’t seem to catch on then. I’m wondering what inspired the focus now.

   Anyway, you can read that original post on the matter here: http://www.shadowandact.com/?p=12582

   The comment you quoted from the EW reader is false. Eddie Murphy’s movies do very much have international appeal – “Norbit” made about 40% of its box office overseas, while “The Nutty Professor” did over 50% of its business in international markets.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:24 am ¶

8. Joy-Mari Cloete wrote:

   I, too, had difficulty seeing the couple in the original picture. That’s bad sign number one.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:31 am ¶

9. Christie wrote:

   I thought at first that this post was going to be about how the POC actors were right at the back (very small and almost out of sight) in the top poster. This is something that bugs me, that happens in so many posters and ads…. it’s like the ad people say, “We need to put some POC’s in here for whatever reason, but let’s put them at the back, or partly hidden behind this plant, partly hidden behind this white girl, or whatever.”

   But anyway, on to the real subject of the post – cutting the POC’s out was just so low.

   Totally OT, but I have been relatively happy with what I have seen of the kids’ show Aaron Stone so far. My kids watch it all the time, and I am happy that there are two main characters who are Indian – one has that wacky Indian thing going (but is pretty good-looking) but the other one is a more serious character and not wacky at all – just a normal guy! It’s nice for my kids to see a normal representation of an Indian person on a US show… and there are several other POCs on this show, too. Of course the main main characters are white, as usual, though
   

   Will Smith movies do well in Japan, as far as I know. He’s popular & well-known here.

   Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:31 am ¶

10. deathblossom wrote:

    Is more critically-acclaimed fare like Hustle & Flow and Dreamgirls getting dragged down by the Norbits of the world?

    They’re not being dragged down in America, why should they be anywhere else? The only reason they may be dragged down is if international audiences are letting their perceptions of what they consider an African-American film to be prevent them from appreciating or even bothering to look at the differences between the films. They see black people and automatically jump to a particular, dismissive conclusion . I agree with The Black Bot: sounds like prejudice and racism to me. Not that I’m crying about it, I’m sure we’d be having this same conversation about the US if we showed international films and television series instead of just jumping the gun altogether and remaking them or re-invisioning them with white people (live-action Akira with DiCarpio and Gordon-Levitt…-_-;;). Afterall, it’s not like they’re the only ones who hold this view – Hollywood’s always going on about how white people can’t possibly be expected to identify with black characters and they don’t have enough bankable black stars. All this does is trickle right on down overseas.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:40 am ¶

11. beatrice2000 wrote:

    “to simplify the poster to actors who are most [recognizable] in international markets.”

    Then how does that explain Malin Ackerman being there, since she is not as well known as the two Kristins? It just reeks of the token black couple being used just to say they’re there. And I do know who Faizon Love is, and hope that Jon Favreau, who has worked with him in a bunch of films (Made, Elf) can say something publically about this.

    Same as a recent cover issue of Marie Claire that featured the three white female leads, I didn’t even know there was a fourth lead actress in the film.

    I clicked on Kali Hawk’s website, and she has a cool raspy singing voice and an awesome personal style. It’s a shame to see her excluded here.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:41 am ¶

12. vlucca wrote:

    I think it would be more apt to say “their prejudices are just stopping them from marketing it correctly.” Hollywood is willing to throw a ton of money behind things that they *know* are crap/will barely recoup the cost of production, from all the Lord of the Rings knockoffs to rom-com drivel. Books with the best covers are often the worst reads.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:50 am ¶

13. vcious wrote:

    As an international demographic member, I don’t think most non-USian consumers of Hollywood films don’t go see films because of a black face on the poster. It’s more about the type of film we’re talking. Films like Eddie Murphy’s recent slew of comedies might not appeal because they appeal to only a certain percentage of humanity anyway.

    But stars who pick up interesting projects, and star in big films, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, obviously have no problem attracting audiences in countries where Hollywood films are watched a lot.

    Then again, I’d be very willing to believe stats from my own country that people are less likely to go see a movie if there’s a predominantly black cast or whatever.

    It’s tough, can’t quite decide which is worse, the assumption that international market is racist or the fact that they actually might be?

    Regardless of all this, I find it puzzling they’d make this assumption about the UK, which has an immensely diverse population and where there are tons of black people. It’s not like the UK is the whitest market out there.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 10:56 am ¶

14. Stephanie wrote:

    This is just the price of not having people of color in the room when decisions in media and advertising are made. Even IF the excuse they gave (Those particular Black actors wouldn’t draw in any viewers, or worse they would get people not to watch) WERE true–which it is not–there should have been someone with sense enough to speak up in the actors’ defense–White, non-White, ANYONE. Very sad that the people who decide what the world sees on television are blind to what we all can see SO clearly as wrong.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 11:04 am ¶

15. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

    I have to agree with the statement that Black actors would do better in non-Black films overseas. I’ll give you an example:

    people overseas don’t know what minority communities in other nations are like. the Black British Experience is VERY different from the Black/African American Experience. the South Asian community in the UK is veryyyy different from the South Asian American community.

    When “BEND IT LIKE BECKHAM” came out years ago, it was a massive hit in the UK and with Indian diasporas overseas. But some other communities didn’t understand the cultural issues surrounding a British Indian Sikh girl struggling to hide her love of sports from her parents. I remember reading that a lot of French and Spanish people were confused by the film– because there isn’t a sizeable Indian community in either nations!

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 11:23 am ¶

16. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

    So movies with whites appeal to every group, but those with Black actors don’t? Don’t buy it. A story’s a story. Their prejudices are just stopping them from enjoying it.

    that’s one thing that has always bothered me about international cinema. I remember one time this dumb sorority bitch in my world cinema class said that she’d rather watch French films than watch Indian or Chinese films, cos she claimed she cannot “relate” to Indians or Chinese folks, whereas she would be able to relate to French people better. I remembered I scoffed loudly and muttered some cussing words at her.

    Mod Note – Please refrain from calling other women bitches. Thank you. – LDP

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 11:32 am ¶

17. Nicole M wrote:

    Hooey. Those films just aren’t being marketed as well as ones with White actors. People around the world are fascinated by Black American culture, and as @The Black Bot points out, a story’s a story. Tell it well enough and people will dig it.

    As soon as the studios decide to throw the same $$ at promoting films with Black leads as they do White ones, their international audiences will increase.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 12:19 pm ¶

18. prvlgd cdn wrote:

    For what it’s worth, I (white, Canadian, therefore part of the “domestic” market) recognized all the white actors on the poster, and can name multiple projects they’ve each been in (Malin Akerman is the one actress there who is best known for her roles in “guy” productions, I’d think) but I don’t know the two black actors.

    What are they known for? Any stuff worth checking out?

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 12:43 pm ¶

19. Lindsey wrote:

    I agree with Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist on the point about different cultural experiences in different countries. I think here in the UK generic blockbusters that happen to have black lead actors like Will Smith get promoted a lot more than movies that are seen to fit a niche market like Dreamgirls which deals with a lot of social history, as well as being a musical.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 1:04 pm ¶

20. Mammith wrote:

    I like in the UK and I was wondering if the same thing happened in America with the Pull Rudd film Role Models?

    Over here the posters had the two white guys and the white kid, but completely omitted the black kid.

    I honestly don’t think this is the first example of this happening.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 1:55 pm ¶

21. Mammith wrote:

    *Sorry, that should be ‘live in the UK’ and ‘Paul Rudd’ obviously.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 2:12 pm ¶

22. 9jah wrote:

    ON HUSTLE & FLOW –

    I watched this movie (i bought the DVD) and had to rewatch it again to make sure I wasn’t missing something. It was absolutely pointless. Not to mention boring and yet another in the vein of a very ubiquitous movie theme (i.e. inner city pimping/prostitution). Yet, there was all the “critical acclaim” and the rave reviews by the (white) mainstream movie industry. The rappers on the soundrack won an academy for a (terrible) rap song for goodness’ sake!

    I didn’t get the hype and so my radar went off as it always does in these situations – my guess was the movie somehow involved white participation or validation. I investigated and sure enuf the writer and director was (drumroll) white!! (Other instances – white obsession with Biz Markie and “Just a Friend”. I didnt get it. Then found he had numerous guest appearances on Beastie Boys records. Also, I kept hearing in white circles of some great rapper named proof except I wasn’t hearing this guy on radio or anywhere else. I looked into. He was Em’s best friend.)

    Anyway, long-winded way to say that Hustle & Flow is not arthouse or art anything. Even given the linear plot of many “hood” movies this was quite poor. Besides I don’t see this story translating overseas for myriad other reasons.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 2:34 pm ¶

23. WestEndGirl wrote:

    As a Brit, my experience is that ALL ‘minority’ films from a different country and including English-speaking films from Australia, NZ and Canada, and/or films which specifically focus solely on a different ethnic, racial, religious group tend to get pushed to the arthouse circuit. It really isn’t a question of push-back against Hollywood, it’s that the ‘public’ are typically looking for popcorn-fodder and not interesting movies.

    Sometimes you get sleeper hits (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, The Ring, Leon the Pig Farmer, Nikita) or such is the celebrity of the people involved (Waiting to Exhale, for example) that they do well in mainstream cinema. But far far more often they just do very well on DVD/TV instead by garnering word-of-mouth recommendations or critical acclaim. This goes for Chinese films, Black US films, Jewish UK films, Kiwi lo-fi films and etc etc. People like dross, what can I say?

    The reason as to why they would take the couple off the poster though for our market is unfathomable to me. Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Jamie Foxx, Samuel L.Jackson, Morgan Freeman and Don Cheadle (yum yum) are all HUGE box office stars here and can and do headline/carry movies here all the time. Will Smith is far more popular here than Tom Cruise I would say. (Interesting to note the lack of Black actresses as an aside!) So it really can’t be because UK audiences won’t spend their money on films with POC actors. Mind-boggling.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 2:36 pm ¶

24. 9jah wrote:

    ON EDDIE MURPHY -

    We now know Eddie Murphy as a black woman-stereotyping actor/director and for a string of awful movies dating back over a decade.

    What we forget is that Eddie Murphy was THE Black actor at some point. Further, when there were very, very few black actors/actresses, he was for a period the biggest superstar in all of hollywood (not just among black actors). To top it off, his characters were always smart and competent/successful.

    I think this is when Eddie Murphy established his international bonafides. I know that visiting Nigeria as a kid, Eddie Murphy was every bit the icon that he was here and his movies were as big. I am betting he was equally popular in various places around the world.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 2:55 pm ¶

25. 9jah wrote:

    On Removing Black People From Poster –

    If we have three couples on a poster already that (white) people wherever can relate to, how is the one teeny tiny black couple all the way in the back reductive??

    In any event, my bottom line is – we always project our (American) culture, political ideologies and collective ethos in our films because that is “who we are” and because, dammit, as the largest film industry we can and will show whatever we think needs to be shown. How convenient that here, were race is concerned, industry heads are so eager to make concessions? Are these not opportunities to convey to international audiences what is important to us as Americans? White people catering to international white racists if you ask me.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 3:14 pm ¶

26. refresh_daemon wrote:

    Personally, I feel that the “Norbit”s of the world will probably actually play better to international audiences because of atlasien’s point #2.

    I think the largest hindrance to international success is how culturally specific the film is. As atlasien points out, only the broadest of comedies tend to fare well cross-culturally, because comedy is so culturally specific.

    Likewise, a lot of American indie films, even if featuring white actors, no matter how popular in the US, never made a dent cross-culturally (”Little Miss Sunshine”, “Juno”, “Sideways” etc.), and that’s because the stories are very specific to the culture. The reason why Hustle & Flow (and other Black American dramas) just wouldn’t fly overseas is because their stories are just so American. Dreamgirls, at least, has the benefit of being a musical and being based on a world renowned musical supergroup.

    On the other hand, if you have a lot of special effects going on and explosions and other high budget wizardry, it doesn’t seem to matter what the story is, or if there even is a story (”Transformers 2″), it will still make buckets of money overseas. Will Smith, a bankable Black man, does plenty of business with big budget films like “iRobot” or “I Am Legend”. But these kind of stories aren’t very specific to the American culture.

    I get the feeling a Black American cast sci-fi/fantasy/action/broad comedy will always beat out a Black American urban drama in the international market.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 3:31 pm ¶

27. Seattle Slim wrote:

    @18 prvlgd cdn

    I don’t know why, but that question irked me, nothing personal. Just saying.

    I am not familiar with Kali Hawk, but I will be googling her. For a minute I thought she was Joy Bryant but then again her appearance in the commercials were very fleeting.

    Faizon Love has been in tons of movies. Hell, I know most people have seen Friday. He was Big Perm, I mean Big Worm. Friday was a HUGE crossover hit. Surprised even me…

    I will say that from jump the AA couple being relegated to the back was BS pure and simple. I mean they were WAY out there. That should’ve been an issue way before the UK even became one.

    Removing them, and having the stars and the producers and others stay relatively mum on this SECOND affront is freaking irritating, but not surprising because we all know that the collective Give-a-damn of Non-POCs for POCs has broken and was broken a long time ago.

    *SMMFH* I’m not watching this tripe. And I’m not going to see anything by Favreau or any of the other actors in that “motha” until they get right.

    Anything on TCM >>>>Most movies these days

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 5:46 pm ¶

28. Seattle Slim wrote:

    Oh and I just love how Movieline jumped at Kali Hawk’s insipid explanation:
    http://www.movieline.com/2009/11/all-white-couples-retreat-posters-stir-outrage-apology-in-uk.php

    That explains HER but what about Faizon?

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 6:08 pm ¶

29. ieishah wrote:

    i’m sorry, but anyone who posits that somehow america as a whole is less racist than the entire rest of the world based on hollywood (really???), obviously does not own a damn passport. and if they do, they must be using the pages to collect postal stamps cuz they sure as shit don’t use it to go anywhere. so america is the north and the rest of the world is the south? i don’t know if that’s just stupidity or a testament to the collective american ego.

    harsh words, maybe, but imagine a country like spain, where i live. every single film is translated into spanish. every one. sometimes they’re even translated in catalan. what’s catalan?? exactly my point. but film translation is a multimillion dollar industry in spain (and i believe italy as well). so there’s a filtering process, naturally. we can discuss the (de-)merits of this process, but it has to be taken into account that spain, which has only a recently emerging black community is not going to spend a million translating a tyler perry. nor would i fucking want them to. why you think i left the states?

    also, take france. a country whose laws limit the number of foreign films released yearly. (foreign films of any kind, people!! i know, we’re american and the world revolves around our american-ness, but in this case it’s films of any kind!!) that though i suspect the likes of dream girls and hustle and flow did well in france, tyler perry, again, probably never will. france, by the way, has a growing industry for its OWN poc films.

    rant over. but really, i hate non-culturally specific critiques. besides, did it occur to mr. hudlin that lots of american films (including the one on the poster) might just crappy and simply unable to withstand the types of filtering described above?

    in the end, we cannot just take what we know of race in america as a blueprint for dealing with race in all the rest of the world.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 6:22 pm ¶

30. Tracey wrote:

    Uhmmmm…okay.
    Even if that theory is true, there are only two of them and they are literally regulated to the background by the white couples!! How would this possibly be misunderstood as a movie supposedly targeting black Americans? The old go-to excuse of marketability doesn’t even apply unless they are willing to come out and say that movies with any main characters that are black don’t do well.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 7:15 pm ¶

31. Kinsa wrote:

    Black…couple? please, all I see in that first ad is a black man and a mixed-looking woman standing next to him. Just once I’d like to see a darker-hued black woman, they don’t even exist as love interests in black films!

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 8:18 pm ¶

32. 123 wrote:

    No doubt, racism exists overseas, but I think that poor results of American movies (that are either geared toward AAs or features AAs actors) has more to do with the idea that Americans don’t make provocative, intellectually stimulating movies.

    As for the Couple’s Retreat poster, I really doubt the inclusion of the two black actors in the background of the poster would have significantly dragged down the success of the movie overseas.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 9:18 pm ¶

33. Jen wrote:

    The only thing Norbit stopped from seeing was Norbit, and pretty much anything made by Eddie Murphy since. I’m not really interested in comedies that revolve around how “funny” fat people are. And anyone who sees the poster for, say, Hotel Rwanda and thinks, hmm, that has black people in it, and they make films like Norbit, is a bit thick to begin with.

    I think those who have been making the point about marketing have it right. It is just assumed that foreign audiences won’t like “black American” stories, which is just total BS. That’s the whole point of going to the movies (or reading a book etc) – to see a story completely different to your experience.

    (In fact, the massive success of the Wire overseas is probably an excellent example of this. My friends are middle class and mainly white or Asian. Are we expected not to understand the Wire because it features poor black people living in public housing, and cops?)

    I’m really curious as to whether Precious is going to get an Australian release. Initially I assumed it wouldn’t, because the distributors would make that assumption – that it wouldn’t translate – but it’s obviously been such a big hit in the States that maybe they’ll think differently. Our art house cinemas constantly play foreign (…funny how that actually means “Anything that is not Canadian or British”) films, with South American works being super popular, and big blockbuster Chinese action films regularly make it to the multiplexes. I think the marketers are just being lazy. And, you know, racist.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 9:54 pm ¶

34. dogsofwar wrote:

    @ Seattle Slim

    @ DIMA

    As for Kali Hawk’s quote about not being in the poster due to a having a smaller role initially–hard to say whether that’s her honest opinion or she’s falling on the grenade, right? When you’re up-and-coming like Hawk, it’s hard to make waves and fight the good fight, which is sad. Hell, even when you’re well-established, which i guess is the whole point , isn’t it?

    Sad, especially, since Hawks, IMO, is way finer and has far more flair than those other cookie-cutter actresses. When it comes to that generic, SATC type (yes, i speak of Ms. Davis, sadly), it’s like Attack of the Clones for the last 5, 10, 15 years.

    From my experience during the college daze, and living in LA and being around film biz foolishness, movie marketing departments are bursting at the seams with those same frat and sorority types who wouldn’t think twice about throwing Pimps n Ho’s Halloween parties, or “Dress up like a Mexican and drink Tequila” on Cesar Chavez Day-type affairs.

    Like the mighty Fishbone said, this movie game is a Slow Bus Movin’.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 11:18 pm ¶

35. honeybrown1976 wrote:

    Kinsa, she was a darker-skinned woman. Do you want her so black she’s blue? Stop with the “not black enough” mentality. Black comes in various shades.

    Anyway, I’m really TIRED of whites telling the colored globe what should pass as entertainment.

    Posted 18 Nov 2009 at 11:43 pm ¶

36. m. wrote:

    As reported on Yahoo, a spokesman for the film’s distributor, Universal, said the move was made “to simplify the poster to actors who are most [recognizable] in international markets.”

    The most hilarious thing about this is the fact that not more than two (at the most) of those white actors are or would be recognizable to most audiences. Not only that, these “most recognizable in international markets” individuals are pretty much C-list.
    (I apologize in advance if I screwed up some of that HTML.)

    @Kinsa:
    Wait, what? …so you’re questioning Kali Hawk’s being black because her skin isn’t as dark as you’d like it to be? (BTW, insofar as I know, Kali Hawk isn’t mixed, but I had no idea being so stripped one of their race or ethnicity. People of color come in all complexions, shades, hues and undertones; many times, their being mixed has little, if not nothing, to do with it.)
    Colorism and racism in the media sucks, I agree…but denying or deciding another’s identity and background because of it? That’s shitty.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 2:11 am ¶

37. TN wrote:

    @atlasien wrote:
    5) kids movies with talking animals.

    LOL… guilty *blushes*

    From that poster, I recognise Vince Vaugn and the three white ladies… got no clue who the other two white guys or black couple are.

    I would be part of the “international” market. So, to be “fair”… maybe they should delete the other two white guys too simply because I don’t know who the heck they are.

    Personally I like movies with big bang boom special fx – I’m shallow, what can I say – and period films so I watch lots of movies from the foreign markets (non-English European, Asian etc).

    But yeah, films are fictional… they are supposed to take you to places and people that are not part of your own reality, that’s what makes it cool. Who says I can’t relate or at least just watch something that has a character with surroundings that are completely not similar to my own.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 3:52 am ¶

38. Christie wrote:

    To be honest, I don’t recognize any of the actors/actresses in the poster (except possibly one – is the dark-haired white lady the one from Sex in the City?).

    I’m a white American living overseas, and based on this poster, I would definitely not be interested in watching this film. The three remaining white couples look too similar to each other, like cookie-cutter people, and the guys kind of look like jerks (and the women look vapid). When I first read this post I missed that this was a Hollywood film, and was thinking it was one of those slightly tackier TV shows, based on this poster. The poster with the POCs is not much better, as the POC couple is so obviously in the background, and so small that I can’t even make out their faces. All-in-all, just not a good advertising effort.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 7:22 am ¶

39. prvlgd cdn wrote:

    @27 Seattle Slim: I think I maybe understand your (and anyone else reading’s) irked-ness–I didn’t want to come across as “I don’t know them so they must be nobodies,” but I was curious as to whether they had recent breakout roles or were established in the 10% of US stuff that has a lower profile in the States than in Canada (we get equal marketing saturation for almost everything released in the US, but depending on the city, we wouldn’t have gotten a bunch of WB or CW shows, or half the stuff on Showtime or TNT or FX or a bunch of other US cable stuff–most Fox News characters are know up here almost exclusively through clips on the Daily Show, and US MTV hosts are likewise unknown, except through EW).

    Heck, the entire Anglophone Canadian audience is, I’m pretty sure, way smaller than the black US audience, so movies can be pretty huge through cinemas in black US communities, but hit maybe one or two theatres for a week or two here and then be gone without being noticed.

    The upshot is that I could run an actor through the IMDB, get the names for a bunch of productions, but still not really know whether they were for small roles in shoestring films that went straight to DVD, or scene stealing roles in significant independent hits in the US.

    So I thought it was easier to ask.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 9:21 am ¶

40. dersk wrote:

    Hey, if you ask me, anything that pulls fewer people in to see that waste of a film is a good thing.

    I have found that here in Holland tastes are quite different (or maybe it’s that my taste is a lot different from the average American as well). FWIW, here’s the top ten box office films of 2008 in Holland:

    1. Quantum of Solace
    2. Mama Mia (ugh)
    3. Madagascar 2
    4. The Dark Knight
    5. The Kite Runner
    6. Indiana Jones
    7. Kung Fu Panda
    8. Sex and the City (ugh)
    9. Anubis en het pad van de 7 zonnen (Dutch kid’s movie, I think)
    10. Oorlogswinter (really bad Dutch Blood Diamonds knockoff with a crappy floppyhaired Dutch singer starring)

    Surprising amounts of prejudice in this thread, by the way:

    @DIMA: So, all sorority girls are bitches?
    @Kinsa: Light skinned women aren’t really black?

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 9:27 am ¶

41. prvlgd cdn wrote:

    Meant to say “10% of stuff that has a lower profile in Canada than in the States”

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 9:33 am ¶

42. cocolamala wrote:

    @Kinsa: Light skinned women aren’t really black?

    but I think what she said was “I’d like to see a dark skinned woman as a love interest for a change”

    that is not questioning the actress’ credentials as an african american woman, but questioning Hollywood casting ideas about which black women are presented onscreen.

    and there are trends in the entertainment industry which prefer to cast lighter skinned black women — aren’t there quotes from people like Kanye and Puff Daddy saying they only cast light skinned women as models in their videos?

    i think this is what she is referring to — asking for broader representation of the hues of women — is not necessarily asking to exclude light skinned women from the scene.

    there is also a problem with this in the makeup industry — would asking L’Oreal for a wider range of darker foundations isn’t the same as saying “all these light brown foundations are wrong for black women”

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 9:57 am ¶

43. cocolamala wrote:

    [editing error y'all: i changed that last sentence midstream -- just remove the would from "would asking L'Oreal..." ]

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 10:01 am ¶

44. Takae wrote:

    beatrice2000 wrote:
    “to simplify the poster to actors who are most [recognizable] in international markets.”

    Then how does that explain Malin Ackerman being there, since she is not as well known as the two Kristins?
    —

    Because she’s paired with Vince Vaughn?

    If Kali Hawk was paired with Vince Vaughn and Malin Ackerman with F Love, I’m willing to bet Kali wouldn’t be removed while Malin and Love would.

    Universal is being silly here, though, because there are quite a few American actors that British people still aren’t familiar with.

    Jon Faverau may be well known in the US, he’s still largely unknown here. Jean Reno is far more better known than Jon Faverau in the UK.

    Leaving Hawk and Love in or out wouldn’t make a significant difference to UK audience, IMO.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 10:26 am ¶

45. beatrice2000 wrote:

    Take, that is true, I did notice that, and obviously since she’s paired with a big star she wouldn’t be edited out. I guess it made me think of the truth that young white actresses are more promoted than young black actresses or given more roles/covers/face-time. But you’re right that the actress with the lesser-known male star would be reduced to a postage -stamp size or be removed.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 11:14 am ¶

46. blaqbird wrote:

    okay so here’s what really got me:

    In the first poster, Jean Reno’s name is featured on the poster even though his image is nowhere to be found it. Cut to–second poster. Faizon Love and Kali Hawk have been removed from the poster AND their names have also been removed from the poster, YET Jean Reno’s name still remains. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Jean Reno, but why is it that his name remained on the poster while Hawk’s and Love’s images and names were removed? If they wanted to take the black couple out, the least they could’ve done was leave their names on the poster.

    And yes, I do understand that Reno is more well-known in Europe than in the US, but it’s definitely food for thought.

    And let’s be real: Malin Ackerman is not as well-known as a lot of people think she is. I think she’s gotten more attention since Watchmen, but she looks just like every other Hollywood actress. And how could people not know who Faizon Love is? Ever since junior high my friends have been quoting Friday like nobody’s business; he’s also built a nice career for himself being featured in Parenthood, Blue Crush, and many other tv shows/movies.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 11:24 am ¶

47. fromthetropics wrote:

    ieishah #29 wrote: “so america is the north and the rest of the world is the south? i don’t know if that’s just stupidity or a testament to the collective american ego.”

    amen, amen ieishah. sheeeeeeessshhhh. So, if MAINSTREAM Hong Kong movies, or Bollywood movies, or South American or Korean soaps (both types of soaps are all the rage in Asia) don’t sell in the U.S. what’s that supposed to say about the US? That it’s the deep South from the 1800s? The mere suggestion that if some (yes SOME) black movies don’t sell overseas then the rest of the world is more racist pisses me off big time. What the hell kinda argument is that? How often does Reginald Hudlin watch foreign movies anyway? Snobbism at its height really. (And btw, anything with Will Smith sells.)

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 12:54 pm ¶

48. prvlgd cdn wrote:

    @Blaqbird46:

    1. As a data point, Malin Akerman is known/recognizable to me because a) geek status and b) she’s Canadian so she got a bit more press here for Watchmen than elsewhere probably–she was also in a Cronenberg or Egoyan flick this year.

    2. Blue Crush. Okay, now I know Faizal Love. (Was he in the Friday sequels?

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 1:39 pm ¶

49. Shawn wrote:

    @Kinsa – she’s black. America still observes the “One drop” rule whether they say it or not. But that aside, I agree with the need for more darker-skinned women as good love interests, rather than as shrews, drug-addicts, prostitutes, etc. I want to see some Naomi Campbell looking love in films.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 2:28 pm ¶

50. prvlgd cdn wrote:

    Crap. S/b “Faizon” not “Faizal.”

    [Note to self: I want to check how well Fear of a Black Hat has aged]

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 2:56 pm ¶

51. Orville wrote:

    I disagree about movies with blacks not appealing overseas. For example, Denzel Washington and Will Smith movies are very successful overseas and they are African Americans. I think the problem with Hollywood is the lack of marketing of African American movies overseas. Also, I think Ice Cube’s movie with Nia Long a few years ago did well overseas. I don’t buy the notion that people overseas don’t want to see African American films. My argument is the white male gatekeepers the studio executives are racist and they have a perception that African American films don’t overseas. So African American movies don’t get the push they deserve to reach international markets. The money involved in making a movie successful is not present for many black American movies. Vivica Fox said it’s about the studios not putting in the effort and I agree with her.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 3:04 pm ¶

52. blaqbird wrote:

    it’s almost a self-fulfilling prophecy: Studio execs believe movies w/a predominantly African-American cast and fanbase won’t do well overseas so they don’t market them very well. Then when they don’t succeed (because of crappy marketing or whatever), the studio execs sit back and are like “See, I told you they don’t have any audience for that over there”. They’re not realizing that they’re the ones determining what people will/won’t want to see instead of just believing in the film like any other film and seeing the results.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 3:53 pm ¶

53. Nin wrote:

    SUCH BS. That’s how studios cover their ass on anything having to do with minorities being excluded: It doesn’t sell.

    Doesn’t matter what market, genre, rating, audience, etc. It’s *always* the same excuse: It doesn’t sell. Bunch of assholes.

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 6:32 pm ¶

54. Takae wrote:

    45. beatrice2000

    It’s very understandable why you thought the way you did. So many downsized AA or Asian actors’ roles in film promotion blitzes that we became used to assuming the worst.

    I was a victim a few times!

    Some time ago I noticed how the US posters of ‘Bend Like Beckham’ treated Parminder and Keira so differently. In the film Parminder plays the lead but in those posters, it implied Keira was the lead. Also, Keira was interviewed in U.S. chat shows more than Parminder ever was.

    I felt Keira wasn’t well known in the U.S. at the time and so I developed a grudge against the U.S. distributor until someone pointed out the film Keira was in, The Hole, had a cult following in the U.S. I had to accept Keira was promoted more than Parminder because of the recognisability factor. I still don’t like it, anyway!

    51. blaqbird

    You pegged it so perfectly!

    Posted 19 Nov 2009 at 9:30 pm ¶

55. Theo wrote:

    We all know blues musicians can never be understood in Europe. Or that jazz has no appeal to outside markets. Hip hop never even left the Bronx! As you would expect, movies about these Black Americans only serve to confuse and alienate the rest of the world. Even peripheral exposure of the Blackness can send entire studios spiraling into destitution!

    There should also be no question that the US is among the world’s top exporters of racist claptrap (e.g., this poster). First they took away the factories, now this has to go, too?

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 10:47 am ¶

56. Donald wrote:

    Something to understand about the UK mainstream cinema is that it is made up of a few chains closely tied to the Hollywood distributors. As a result it works to sell Hollywood films to a target audience which is predominatly white. It’s so bad that for a British film to be shown in British cinema it has to be sold to Hollywood first. A few years ago there was a request that one screen at a multiplex should show Bollywood movies. The response was something on the lines of being contractually unable to do so. The market was there but the chain cinemas weren’t interested in it.

    I agree there is limited interest in films which reflect the specific African-American experience. Heck it is difficult enough to relate to much white American culture in spite of the flood of films and TV depicting it. However good stories and good comedy will have a market in spite of that barrier.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 3:54 pm ¶

57. Chiara wrote:

    Hmn. I have to say that I find that odd, from what I’ve seen of the U.K. Yes there’s racist people, but have you seen the black characters in U.K. tv? Most viewers don’t even remember they’re black later on, because it’s just not drawn attention to in 99% of cases. Because it’s not a big deal, they’re there to be characters, not a skin colour.
    So for all I know they really *were* just cutting out actors that people in the U.K. didn’t know. They just happened to be black, and they didn’t think about it, because they’re not trying to be P.C. all the time.

    Or maybe I’m living in a dream world, I’m just basing this on my experiences in the U.K and my experiences with the (decent, not neo nazis) British, and the characters on tv and how they treat POC on tv.

    … … if they were going to be racist, I think it’d be against people of middle eastern background…

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 6:59 pm ¶

58. Chiara wrote:

    And look at Martha from Dr. Who. Actually there are heaps of POC characters in that show. Or IT Crowd. Who even remembers that Moss is black? You don’t. You remember he’s a nerd.

    Posted 20 Nov 2009 at 7:01 pm ¶

59. Pearl wrote:

    I was shocked to learn that the Black couple was taken out of the poster when the movie was being promoted in the U.K. It was bad enough to see that the Black couple was the furthest away from the camera on the posters advertised in the U.S. Also, I did not notice this while I was watching this movie in theaters but looking back I realize that many of the characteristics of the black couple were very stereotypical. For instance, the black female was very “ghetto” in the clothes she wore and way she spoke. Not all Caribbean/African Americans are like that. She was also often times very loud and obnoxious during the couples’ retreat. I just don’t think it’s fair that the only black couple in the movie had to be portrayed through the common negative stereotypes of Black people.

    Posted 29 Nov 2009 at 2:39 pm ¶