Comments

1. mgavia wrote:

   Colbert tries to undermine EVERYONE. That’s his stage persona. I think it’s a little unfair to say the Colbert Report = the cacophony of racism around POCs, especially when you state that you have “little idea to what his real politics are.” And in that interview, I don’t see any “veering into hateful territory.” I don’t see that in the show at all, really- except from the occasional guest.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 12:28 pm ¶

2. Shelby wrote:

   I had the EXACT SAME feelings while watching this episode. I mean I loved it, it was definitely entertaining…but, I couldn’t decide if I felt it was mockery or not. I hate the mainstream’s tendency to make charicatures out of Black leaders (thus making it ok to ignore their “silly” politics.) But my overall impression was that Colbert was just trying to keep up with West, not mock him. It might be interesting to compare this interview to the one w/ Sherman Alexie. It was kind of a similar dynamic where Alexie never let Colbert fully control the interview and a sort of battle of wits ensued.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 12:42 pm ¶

3. mbrowne wrote:

   I didn’t pick up on anything uncouth; I thought it looked like West and Colbert had a blast playing off of each other. Colbert says ridiculous things in character as a satire on the often absurd arguments that conservative talking heads make, so I’d say it’s safe to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially because he’s a pretty liberal person in reality, and he’s made some swipes at the concept of post-racism on the show in the past.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:02 pm ¶

4. Rita wrote:

   I think Colbert is definitely an ally. To me, he clearly satirizes the religious right/neocons. Compare him to “South Park,” where it really is impossible for me to tell what are the personal views of the creators. Another clue with Colbert is to listen to the kinds of things his audience cheers: they definitely are left-leaning.

   The interview, though, demonstrates one of the weaknesses of Colbert’s approach, which is that his interviews are not really interviews at all, but performance. Jon Stewart genuinely interviews people for the purpose of exchanging ideas, but Colbert is about promoting his persona.

   Then again, that’s what O’Reilly and his ilk are about, too. I think that’s partly why Colbert conducts his “interviews” the way he does.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:07 pm ¶

5. Steven wrote:

   Nah, Colbert’s like that with everyone. He turns it up when he’s going against someone he respects or he knows can intellectually challenge his character.

   I don’t recall the Sherman Alexie interview, but I know that he was steamrolled in similar fashion by George Will.

   No one can make a caricature of Cornel West, because he’s knowingly beaten them to it. It’s practically the source of his power and status in the world of popular academics.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:24 pm ¶

6. Deena wrote:

   I really felt like West controlled the conversation, and Colbert was trying to keep up. Colbert’s persona on the show is sort of the ultimate underminer, but West stayed above it all.

   I loved the interview and thought that West was able to get his message across in a way that few other Colbert guests do.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:27 pm ¶

7. gail wrote:

   I think Colbert is so funny in part because he is mocking the “objective” white male persona of most television news shows. The show was brilliant! West asserts: We’re all human and we all need to embrace each other because we are all going to die one day so we need to show each other compassion, unqualified compassion!, as we all struggle with the fear of death.
   Colbert’s sum-up: “I disagree with everything you’ve said.”

   Come on! That is hilarious!!

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:31 pm ¶

8. kamala wrote:

   i don’t see steamrolling here, nor potential for mockery, in this instance. The chemistry between them is clear, and this is what occasionally cut through colbert’s constructed persona, making him lose character and chuckle sometimes.

   maybe i am misreading your post, and apologies if i am incorrect, but it seems like you don’t quite get that colbert is performing a parody. i cannot find it online unfortunately, but in London a few years ago i saw an interview with him in which he was not “in character” –i.e. not performing a cartoon of what rush or o’reilly do for real. in that interview he came off as sharp, funny, warm, and decidedly left-wingish, with a libertarian streak.

   His method, with both right and left-leaning guests, seems to be to give them the platform to humiliate themselves, and it is most comi-tragic when they do so unwittingly, or when they don’t get the joke. This happens most often with those on the right who think he is seriously on the right as well–they see him as an ally, but they would be wrong.

   It seems very clear here that West totally *gets it* and expertly plays along, so the there is no mockery in the audience’s laughter, rather, the laughter is that we are all in the joke together, while poking fun at the notion of a post-racial america. While not everyone in the audience may be really enlightened about this, i think the sly method of poking fun at the concept in this way will do a lot to help people reconsider the situation.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:35 pm ¶

9. Cayce wrote:

   When Colbert references Jim Morrison, is he poking fun at West’s knowledge base, or is he merely “tangoing”? When West makes a great counterargument to the logic of Post Racialism, Colbert responds by saying “I feel like a muppet.” Does that undermine West – and is that Colbert’s intention?

   My love for Colbert may be tainting my interpretation of this interview, but I thought the Jim Morrison thing was his typical “playing the fool” to show the contrast between a yappy right-wing commentator (Colbert’s character) and a clearly learned man (West). The fact that West cites Kafka and Colbert’s sourcing Morrison only cements the disparities between the scholarship of each man.

   I took the Elmo comment in the same spirit. He’s pretending that he’s being educated, as the muppets often are by guest star friends. I think by debasing himself in this way, Colbert is demonstrating West’s “defeat” of the “post-racial” arguments and making fun of his own declarations that “racism is over.” It seems to me that Colbert invites guests like West on his show and does these kinds of “interviews” to illustrate what would happen if scholars like him were ever invited to speak on Glenn Beck, et al.

   This interpretation of the interview, in my mind, fits with his show’s premise: Colbert sharply satirizing the buffoonery and demagoguery all those right-wing talking heads. Still, I would not be surprised if there was some degree of mockery of the man, too, since oftentimes comedians have a difficult time holding back when they think they have a target in sight.

   Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:37 pm ¶

10. BillytheKid wrote:

    This just demonstrates the ambiguity of parody and satire.
    A good comedian is able to keep the audience guessing as to his “true” position on any particular topic.
    I think this gives credit to Colbert and credit to others like West who can play along without getting sucked into or duped into compromising their position. I rather see interviews like this than the drivel that passes for “fair and balanced” just about anywhere else.
    I think folks like Colbert are beneficial to our civic discourse cause one can argue that once the persona of the messenger has been undermined, the message is able to be evaluated free of the attributes barnacled through association with the messenger.
    Of course the converse is true as well.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 1:50 pm ¶

11. Beth wrote:

    Colbert does tend to fall short on racism. He has the problem that it’s really, really hard to satirize the racism of the GOP and the right because however extreme you go there are elected representative further out. Often his attempts to take down racism end up sounding like a echo chamber for it.

    That said, I loved this interview. When he said, “I disagree with everything you said,” what I heard was, “there is no rational argument that could possible refute you.” When he said, “I feel like a muppet,” what I heard was, “every 6-year-old knows you are right.” Colbert was clearly outclassed by West, and appreciative of it.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 2:02 pm ¶

12. Xay wrote:

    Cornel West has been on Colbert’s show at least once before and the tone was about the same. I think that Colbert respects West and enjoys having him on the show as a guest.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 2:07 pm ¶

13. Lisa J wrote:

    Stephen Colbert has made it VERY clear in interviews as himself off the show and in his lambasting of the Bush administration at the White House Correspondents dinner several years ago that he is liberal in real life. There was also publicity prior to him leaving the Daily Show that the explicit point of his show was to satirize the far right and blowhards like Limbaugh et. al.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 2:21 pm ¶

14. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

    I forget about Colbert in this entire interplay, Cornel West is just so intellectually engaging.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 2:24 pm ¶

15. Keith wrote:

    Coblert had the RZA on his show a few months back and was really excited to have him on. But his whole stick is lampooning right wing ideology and he often undermines his t.v. persona to do so. Their was a study done in which it showed that conservatives actually use his talking points as being legit even though Colbert himself states he is poking fun at the right.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 2:34 pm ¶

16. Slush wrote:

    But as is often pointed out, Colbert’s intent isn’t always relevant. Is the *effect* of this interview to make West look foolish? That’s an important part of the question.

    I don’t think it is, but it’s worth looking at. I think Colbert is honestly getting a little steamrolled because West doesn’t wait for him to do the talking, so he’s just trying to keep up and get a word in while he can. And the Morrison/Kafka exchange was really funny, and almost more like a set-up to give West the opportunity to make Colbert look foolish.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 2:47 pm ¶

17. chicagorose wrote:

    *Dialup member in the room!* Have not in past been able to download video from Comedy Central (but may try my luck finding the clip on on YouTube) I recall an interview done with Colbert (believe it was 60 Minutes?). Colbert is a southerner, one of the many startling things about him that makes him fascinating. He worked hard to to eradicate the accent. It would be difficult for him to come from such a background (IMO) and not be fully aware of the nuances and layered issues of race politics, so that’s my take, without having seen the clip. Even though I’d seen him many times on the Daily Show before he had his own, it did take me a while to get used to exactly what he was doing, because he has to stay almost perfectly in character.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 3:30 pm ¶

18. RJG wrote:

    I think Colbert only truly makes people look foolish when those people have hard-right viewpoints, because he ends up completely agreeing with them and pushing their message, which only makes it look bad given the audience.

    The only person I think I saw this year really look like a fool was the Orly Taitz interview. The fact that Orly seemed all for Colbert’s proposal to dig up Obama’s father, ship him to US soil, and posthumously get him a Social Security card (or whatever he suggested) was mindboggling.

    When someone is disagreeing with Colbert-the-character, I generally take that to mean that Colbert-the-person is in full support of them and invited them on the show just to confront and respond to the right-wing messages that are meant to disparage and ruin their ideals.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 4:45 pm ¶

19. brownstocking wrote:

    I didn’t get any mockery in this interview, though Colbert can be problematic with regards to race. I also don’t heart West, so that could color my reaction, but I thought if he was looking “foolish” it was his own over-the-top persona on display.

    I didn’t feel a real take-down here, because Colbert is complicit, enjoying another master bloviator.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 5:20 pm ¶

20. PPR_Scribe wrote:

    No one can make a caricature of Cornel West, because he’s knowingly beaten them to it. It’s practically the source of his power and status in the world of popular academics.

    Agree. West has branded himself a certain way and is making the most of that brand as a public scholar. He seemed as if he were having a ball on the show. If anything, Colbert, as a comedian, was too soft on and deferential to him. Fearing that West was being mocked seems to assume that he should be above mockery–or at least above hard critique. He is not.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 5:47 pm ¶

21. Sobia wrote:

    I have to admit I love both Colbert and Stewart and their politics. These two are pretty much the only allies Muslims/Arabs/South Asian Muslims have in popular media. These two really are the only ones in mainstream media who called out the Islamophobic nonesense that went on during the election and these guys are pretty much the only ones in mainstream media who actually treat us like equals. Since that time I’ve become quite defensive of them and their shows (though there have been a few comments that have made me cringe – ie., some of the stuff from Colbert in Iraq). My comments of them therefore come from a defensive place.

    I see Colbert-the-character as making fun of white, right wing, conservative politics and ideas. In fact, I’ve heard some very progressive commentary on his show, commentary which one would not be able to find anywhere else in the media.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 5:48 pm ¶

22. Bird wrote:

    Colbert’s persona is meant to mimic and mock that of a hard-line Right political view point, if you can’t tell by the opening of his show that he’s kidding (the eagle? c’mon!) there may be a problem…Do you think West would have gone on the Colbert Report without expecting such treatment?

    Colbert isn’t a legitimate platform for political views and commentary, the man celebrates his own entrance to the interview table by running from there to his desk. It’s a parody show and West was treated just like everyone else.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 5:51 pm ¶

23. thew wrote:

    For what it’s worth I thought that was beautiful. West dominated the interview and Colbert slipped in a few jokes just trying to keep up (and the muppet joke came after a rhyme! that was a perfect set up). There was a vibe of joy coming from both sides and death, equanimity and compassion got a spotlight which is rare and wonderful to find on television at all.

    Since I love Colbert and Stewart I’d be curious to get like, a Racialicious Daily Show/Colbert 101 article to catch me up on the problematic tendencies the author and a few commenters are talking about regarding their shows.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 7:16 pm ¶

24. aj0010 wrote:

    Anyone who doesn’t get Colbert’s politics should search for the YouTube video of his address a few years back to the White House Correspondents Dinner — no, scratch that, it was clearly an address to President Bush, who was sitting just a few feet away.

    I’m certain that I will never see a more illuminating and inspiring example of “speaking truth to power.”

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 8:10 pm ¶

25. Thea Lim wrote:

    Just for the record, I am aware that Colbert is satire and parody…I’m not that dense

    My question was more along the lines of, what kind of cues does the particular kind of role playing that Colbert is doing with West give to the audience, on how they should interpret West?

    I thought this interview was particular interesting because I feel like Colbert actually slips out of character – a rare occurrence. The muppet line and his comment at the end about being on holiday didn’t feel like parody (I can’t imagine Bill O’Reilly, the kind of commenter I imagine Colbert is skewering, making a muppet reference) but rather like West had so outdone Colbert that Colbert just let the facade drop.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 8:28 pm ¶

26. BSK wrote:

    Thea-

    One of the difficulty in answering your question is that, just as you stated, cues are open to interpretation. Is there the possibility that certain people will look at this interview and use it to unfairly lambast West? Of course. But people will do that with anything. I *do* think intent matters here, assuming that achieving that intent is possible. Given the responses here, it clearly was.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 9:41 pm ¶

27. Keith wrote:

    1. Not everyone from the South speaks with a heavy southern drawl.

    2. I doubt that Colbert was being lenient toward Professor West because frankly what did he have to attack?

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 9:49 pm ¶

28. wjdonn wrote:

    I watched this interview a few times, and I enjoyed it very much. I didn’t perceive any “wresting” of the conversation happening on either front, though, nor did I sense Colbert falling out of character. The comments about “feeling like a muppet,” etc., are pretty normal for him, and my sense, as a regular viewer, is that he always ends up making his intelligent (and generally progressive) guests seem even more intelligent for their perceptive senses of humor. Cornel West is obviously a perceptive and intelligent man. Thanks to this interview, he also seems approachable and friendly.

    Whether the guest “gets” Colbert’s act seems to play a major role in how they come across. Compare Eleanor Holmes Norton’s first interview with him (July 2006) with her later one (March 2007), in which she seemed to redeem herself somewhat. In the second interview, she seemed much more aware of what he was doing. In the first, however, sadly, she seemed uncomfortably out of touch. Much as I love Colbert, I have to admit that that first interview may well have harmed her reputation. The same might be said, also unfortunately, for his early interview with Barney Frank (October 2005).

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 9:51 pm ¶

29. Martina wrote:

    It seemed to me like Colbert enjoyed West and by challenging him and being steamrolled, corrected and everything, the audience would (and should) interpret West as warm and humorous, but intellectual and speaking the honest truth.

    And honestly, it did feel like a Sesame Street moment when Colbert said that, so I felt it. But even when considering any cues Colbert gives on how West should be interpreted, the audience clearly understands West and loves what he has to say.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 10:12 pm ¶

30. nihilix wrote:

    As a white guy, I was amazed by West and would ask if he was veering into parody. The performance West gave was amazing.

    Colbert’s particular history involves his dad negotiating on management’s side and giving a victory to a black labor local. Colbert not only is progressive, he has a class consciousness. He sets the right wing schtick up to be knocked down, and because Alinsky knows, mockery is very powerful.

    The best description was earlier, when Cayce wrote:

    “I think by debasing himself in this way, Colbert is demonstrating West’s “defeat” of the “post-racial” arguments and making fun of his own declarations that “racism is over.” It seems to me that Colbert invites guests like West on his show and does these kinds of “interviews” to illustrate what would happen if scholars like him were ever invited to speak on Glenn Beck, et al.”

    I think he’s got some of the best politics on the TV left. I agree with him more than Stewart.

    I agree that West ran the interview. The times that Colbert tried to interrupt and was not allowed to by West showed West was up on a tour de force performance and Colbert was letting it go.

    What I would take from that is – Cornell West is so awesome, his kung fu is so mighty, that the faux-FOX Colbert can do little but run.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 10:30 pm ¶

31. merq wrote:

    Full Disclosure:
    1. I haven’t seen this yet.
    2. I’m the biggest Colbert fanboy alive

    I will watch this shortly, but I wanted to weigh in to say that one of the the reasons I love Stephen T. is the way he handles race issues. I like Jon Stewart, but I cringe whenever racial issues are brought up, ’cause I just know he’s gonna fuck it up (and he almost always does).

    Colbert, on the other hand, never disappoints me. He always ends up on (my idea of) the right side of racial discourse, without EVER breaking character — all the more impressive, considering said character is meant to be an egotistical right-wing blowhard.

    When the whole “blame blacks for Prop 8″ meme was at its height, he was absolutely on the money with his analysis — even getting Dan Savage to pull a complete 180 from the bullshit he’d written on the topic just days before.

    Alright, now I’ll watch.

    Posted 02 Nov 2009 at 11:08 pm ¶

32. charlie wrote:

    First things first–I don’t understand how someone can possibly be as unflustered and charming as Cornel West is here.

    Anyway I don’t get the feeling that Colbert is disrespectfully mocking West any more than he mocks any of the other guests on his show that one may presume Colbert has a neutral to positive feelings about. Nor do I think that it would make sense to position West’s awesomeness in this interview as a “victory” against Colbert.

    You can tell Colbert is legitimately enjoying West’s company. And Colbert’s thing to do with interviewees seems to be to annoy the hell out of them, whether he likes them or not, just to see what their response is. It can get kind of awkward with interviewees without a sense of humor, but clearly, that’s not who West is. Actually, Colbert seems to enjoy coaxing interviewees to articulate good points by asking them silly questions that actually mock and ape views opposed to those of the interviewees more than the interviewees themselves. Here, he does that when he keeps bugging West about “But we have a black president! Racism doesn’t exist!” until West responds with the “just because we have a black face in a high place” bit.

    And the Muppet line? Hey, I think that’s a legit, non-hostile, inoffensive little joke. West has a unique style of talking, Colbert just described it facetiously. And West has the good humor to take it in stride.

    Cornel West rocked that interview. But it’s not like the interview was a competition or even a debate of any sort between the two.

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 4:22 am ¶

33. Danielle wrote:

    I have no doubt about colbert’s politics and i think they are clear, because he makes them clear, throughout his satire. If you pay attention to “The Word” you’ll see that more than in any other segment of his show. i did not get the feelings that he was mocking at all, that colbert is problematic when it comes to race as someone above said, or that he represents the white male arena. i think colbert has offered some of the most insightful commentaries on race that i’ve ever seen, especially when stewart does not, and he was laughing during the West interview because for once he could not get the upper hand. i hope that we are not so eager to champion race that in the few instances where we are not being vilified, we think that we are.

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 9:20 am ¶

34. Slush wrote:

    I think Colbert does better on race than gay rights issues. That’s where his jokes most often miss the mark.

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 10:45 am ¶

35. Di wrote:

    Colbert, along with his white liberal writers, is a culture bigot who has no compunction against speaking down from his Christian ethnocentric frame. See the following blog for details: http://ultrabrown.com/posts/total-eclipse-of-the-colbert

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 5:40 pm ¶

36. Babraham Lincoln wrote:

    In addition to being progressive, Colbert is also a very observant Catholic, who teaches Sunday school/CCD, and has like 5 kids. So I actually think his act is sometimes a little more complex than pure parody, esp. around religion and sexuality. It may be part auto-exorcism.

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 8:17 pm ¶

37. Jay wrote:

    The fact that West cites Kafka and Colbert’s sourcing Morrison only cements the disparities between the scholarship of each man.

    The fact that he has to make a total leap of logic (time travel) in order to get the Morrison reference in just makes it even better. He was totally letting West have the stage here.

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 8:43 pm ¶

38. merq wrote:

    Alright, I saw it and it’s clear (to me, avid viewer Merq) that it’s Colbert being Colbert.

    He continues his more-enlightened-than-Stewart assessment race analysis by poking fun (as he is wont to do) at “post-racial America,” and the Morrison joke is him exhibiting an ignorant (yet self-unaware) jingoism that is fundamental to his character.

    All in all, nothing surprising here… which is good, ’cause that means there’s nothing disappointing either.

    Posted 03 Nov 2009 at 11:18 pm ¶

39. jen* wrote:

    IMO, both the Jim Morrison comment and the Muppet comment were apropos in painting Colbert as the “everyman” that the Becks and O’Reilly’s like to set themselves up as. Not only that, but I could actually catch the vibe that West could’ve been sitting there on Sesame Street [a la "I am Somebody"] and dropping knowledge to kids and Muppets/Stephen. His words were that accessible.

    I didn’t find any part of this to miss the mark, I don’t think it would be easy to perceive West as having been steamrolled or played in this interview.

    Posted 04 Nov 2009 at 1:27 am ¶

40. power to da peaceful wrote:

    I’ve got a “man crush” on Stephen Colbert

    Posted 04 Nov 2009 at 2:16 am ¶

41. power to da peaceful wrote:

    On the serious though, Colbert’s a genius and most defiantly a non-racist. As a person of color, non-racist and non-bigot myself, I promote the watching of his show.. every single one!

    Posted 04 Nov 2009 at 2:21 am ¶

42. Rudy wrote:

    I cannot honestly assess if Colbert is an ally or even close to being considered an ally of marginalized communities. From the video and the history of this show, I can say that Colbert does indeed perpetuate the stereotypical white privileged male in the sense that he holds high value to meritocracy and capitalistic ideology.

    To an extend, I think Colbert is exaggerating this character (white privileged male) in order to strike up conversation with West. For example when Colbert stated that since we have a black/biracial president, his book should be titled “Race Mattered.” This example showed me that Colbert was being a naive and trying to act like most privileged white males would act in the sense that most believe a little bit of social progress means that the job is completely done. The beautiful thing about West is that he know’s how to dish it out and that although we’ve made some progress, it is necessary to critique the president in order to continue making progress for the working class of america.

    This is the media and Colbert is responsible for making social issues entertaining for all those watching. In my opinion, this can be problematic because white folks (anyone really) can look at these issues and replace the seriousness of the issues for plain comedy.

    So what do you think? Is Colbert an ally or is he just using West to make white folks laugh?

    Posted 05 Nov 2009 at 1:24 pm ¶

43. Robin wrote:

    Colbert’s comedy is all about satire and irony. If you watch the show with any regularity he does that with every guest he has.

    Colbert is clearly an ally.

    Posted 11 Nov 2009 at 1:02 pm ¶

44. Sonic wrote:

    @Rudy: I think the fact that he specifically used that example, that Race matterED, he’s highlighting the fact that is isn’t over, still very much matters and is why he probably asked West to be on his show.

    I enjoyed it – I thought West and Colbert played off each other very well. I think Colbert did realize that he was being out-witted and laughed at himself, enjoying the exchange.

    And while it’s true he’s a white male who does teach Catholic Sunday school, I’ve watched almost all of his episodes and I don’t recall a specific incidence of his letting that affect his satires in an obvious way.

    Posted 14 Nov 2009 at 12:00 am ¶