Quoted: Rob Fields on “BlackRoc”
How can you call something “BlakRoc” when the black folks on the project only rap and the rockers are all white?
BlakRoc is the name of Damon Dash’s upcoming project, a collaboration between white rockers The Black Keys and rappers such as Mos Def, Q-Tip, Ludacris, and Raekwon, to name a few. Ordinarily, I could care less what Damon Dash does. But in choosing this name for the project, he crossed a line: You can’t match black rappers and white rockers and call it “BlakRoc.”
No, BlakRoc has nothing to do with black rock, something I’ve spent nearly the last three years championing on my blog. The conflation of the two is offensive. There’s too much history there. It’s like he’s acknowledging the existence of black rock with his middle finger.
“BlakRoc” is a slap in the face to those of us who have been working to develop audiences for black artists who don’t fit neatly into pre-conceived categories. It’s an affront to those of us who still face apathy and dismissiveness when it comes to the place of blacks in beyond hip hop and R&B.
It’s galling, too, coming on the heels of Dash’s former partner, Jay-Z, saying bands like Grizzly Bear were going to push hip hop. Some hipsters are going to save hip hop? Great. Statements like this ignore all of the black artists who are embracing live music, forming bands, telling more substantive stories, and the audiences who are supporting black alternative music in growing numbers. That’s going to force hip hop to evolve.
Latoya’s Note: I’m a big fan of the work Fields does at BoldAsLove, and just found out they released a free compilation called “Fire in the Dark: Songs from the New Black Imagination.” You can download it on Amazon. I like “Freedom is Over,” “Everybody,” “On Planet Earth,” “Icon,” “The Last Time We’re Here,” and “The Ballad of Fletcher Reede,” but they are all worth a listen. – LDP
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Sean wrote:
Considering the ethnic origins of rock music, isn’t naming something BlakRoc or Black Rock a bit of a misnomer? Kind of like, RocRoc or Rock Rock?
As far as hipsters saving hip-hop, many of these same hipsters have prided themselves on “saving” such African-American musical forms such as Blues, Jazz, etc. Not “stultifying”, not “preserving in formaldehyde”, but “keeping it alive.” Yet, they tend to turn a deaf ear to those same black artists who, as you said, don’t fit neatly into any pre-concieved categories.
I guess non-commercial, underground hip-hop needs saving? as opposed to spotlighting?
BTW, thanks for the tip, Latoya. I’ll check that out.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 12:21 pm ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:
Considering the ethnic origins of rock music, isn’t naming something BlakRoc or Black Rock a bit of a misnomer? Kind of like, RocRoc or Rock Rock?
heh, good point. But you would be surprised how many people (whether black or white) really have no idea that rock’n'roll had black origins… just sayin’
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 12:43 pm ¶
caroline wrote:
You do realize that some hipsters ARE ALSO black, right? And that there are some serious hipster bands that are either entirely composed of or partially comprised of black members…
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 1:07 pm ¶
Kwesi K. wrote:
I took the project as sort of a reminder of where rock came from seeing as how The Black Keys perform in a style that heavily fueled by early Blues and Rock pioneers. I’m pretty sure they realize that the industy they work in goes out of it’s way to ignore the roots of the music they make. Is it so offensive that a white rock bank is more than willing to acknowledge the source of their primary inspiration as Black?
Dude sounds kinda hurt.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 1:33 pm ¶
Kwesi K. wrote:
Oh man, even though I hear about the project before, I didn’t know Damon Dash was involved. Roc-a-Fella collaborating with the Black Keys…BlackRoc.
C’mon guys.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 1:39 pm ¶
Keith wrote:
@caroline It’s not the black hipsters that are the problem. Their are black cops too, that doesn’t mean that a racist white cop wouldn’t impede on my rights or even a black cop for that matter. Or maybe the ignorance of said black hipster is.
The record industry has been doing this for years appropriating black culture and putting a pretty white face to it, not saying these white performers aren’t talented it’s that we get excluded. And it doesn’t help that many of these entertainers ( I refuse to call them artists) have no real understanding of the history of American music.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 1:45 pm ¶
Alesia wrote:
Doesn’t seem like the author of this piece looked past the name of the project before he started to criticize. The “Black folks” aren’t just rapping. RZA actually composed his contribution to the project with the Black Keys. Also, many of the rappers have dabbled with rock – Mos’ The New Danger comes to mind. I don’t think The Black Keys are out to “save hip hop”, the project strikes me as more of an appreciation effort – merging two genres of music that were invented by Black people. As a black hipster, I’m extremely excited. It’s long overdue.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 1:51 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@Alesia –
Also, many of the rappers have dabbled with rock – Mos’ The New Danger comes to mind.
I would actually date Mos back to Black on Both Sides. (See here.) But, on that note…
@Kwesi K. –
Dude sounds kinda hurt.
I think he is, and it has everything to do with the double marginalization of black rockers – both in the music industry and many in the black community who saw rock as “a white thing.” So to see a big cross over project like this go off and not even bother to reach out to the black rock community does feel like a smack in the face. In the rest of the piece (y’all did click through the link, right?) he talks about the black rock community, the history, the “rediscovery” of the community by the NY Times, other considerations. But I do think it’s kind of telling – whenever there’s a rock/rap cross over, many times its done with white artists. (The one exception quickly coming to mind is Jay-Z/Kravitz, but how often does that happen?)
And I think that’s where the issue is.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 2:10 pm ¶
BSK wrote:
Didn’t Cypress Hill do a double-album with different rap and rock versions of the same songs?
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 2:23 pm ¶
Yonnie3k wrote:
While reading the article, I had the same thoughts as many of the other commenters. I don’t think this guy has heard the album yet, but maybe he should check himself if he is just assuming that all of the black people on the album will be rapping. People have already pointed out Mos Def’s history with rock music and Q-Tip is also not a “traditional” rapper. The only thing missing from the line up is Andre 3000. And as Kwesi pointed out, the name of the project probably has more to do with the names of the entities involved than it has to do with skin color. I’m not saying that the author doesn’t have some valid points, I just think he picked the wrong sounding board (this project). I look forward to
downloadingbuying it.Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 2:24 pm ¶
Keith wrote:
@Yonnie3k and – Latoya Peterson – Alesia You really didn’t get the authors point did you? His beef is with the appropriation of the name which has a 25 year history with the black rock coalition movement. And what the on earth does the project have to do with black rock music anyway? If they are really legit then they should call it something else.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 3:21 pm ¶
Keith wrote:
And it’s exploitative too.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 3:25 pm ¶
Yonnie3k wrote:
@ Keith, I think YOU missed the point. It is a collaboration b/w Roc-a-fella and The Black Keys. Hence the name…BlakRoc. What would you prefer that they call the album? FellaKeys? I understand that there is a history of the black rock coalition, I just don’t think that this collaboration is taking anything away from that movement.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 4:03 pm ¶
Lainad wrote:
I was one of those people who said WTF? when Rob initially posted the article on Boldaslove about the collaboation with Dash and The Black Keys.
I’m sure that though his years working in the black rock community in NYC, Rob saw many talented black rock musicans – there was several black artists who were doing rock, metal, punk and hardcore before Mos Def and Cypress Hill! – who dissolved because no one would give them the time of day. Not because they were crap, but because a) record companies didn’t know how to market them and b) because they got little to no support from the black community (check the album from Mother’s Finest – “Black Radio Won’t Play this Record” – 1992).
It is disappointing when someone with ‘game’ (or at least used to) in the industry like Dash could easily work with one of these bands like Game Rebellion or the African death metal band, Wurst, and give them some shine. Dash seems to be more concerned with the trendsof white indie rock artists than helping black folks create their music. I’m just sayin.’
More importantly – to do what you want, to play the music that you want to do, instead of having to conform to what others deem as what you should be performing in order to be accepted in the mainstream. No offense to the Black Keys, but there is more pressure on black musicians to perform within the cultural confines of what is perceived as black music than it is to play what they play. there is a double-standard here, and Dash is perpetrating it for his own monetary gain. Shame!
To me, ‘Black Rock’ is more than ‘BlacRoc.’ Black rock not only signifies black folks playing a musical form that was created by our blues ancestors, but also the stuggle to get our music heard and for bands like The Family Stand, preservering through times when you receive little support.
It is not meant to be a hipster-ironic catchprhase created so the NYT will write an article about it. It’s not meant to be ‘cool’ and trendy. It about suriving the strugggle of finding a place and space in society where you can be yourself. And thriving – to hell with money, with fame….there are black rock, punk and metal artists who are creating art because it is in their DNA….they have to. I want someone besides the small handful of us who are promoting not only black alternative, rock, metal and punk artists to see that and celebrate it, acknowlege it publically and help these folks out by telling others. Is that such a bad thing?
Sorry for the rant. I’m off to see Metallica.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 4:29 pm ¶
BSK wrote:
I’m not particularly in the know on anything relating to music (unless it is Styx or Styx-related), but I’m curious to hear what people think the larger issue is:
– accessibility for PoC’s who want to enter rock music as musicians
– accessibility for PoC’s who want to enter the rock music scenes as fans
– marketing for rock music (both by PoC musicians and white musicians) to PoC communities
From the little bit I saw, black guys I knew who were into rock music (generally by white musicians) were REALLY into it and were deeply involved in the whole culture. I don’t know that I’ve met many PoC’s who would say they were casual fans of modern rock music (that’s not to say they don’t exist, mind you, just that my limited experience has not led me to come across any).
On the other side, as a fan, I never paid much attention to the make-up of the groups I listened to, simply because I was all about the music. I did bristle when my white friends would assume/anticipate that bands that included PoC members were going to incorporate “new” or “unconventional sounds”, even attributing characteristics that didn’t exist. I knew kids who thought 7Dust had a really “unique” sound because their lead-singer was a black guy with dreads, when, in reality, the only thing that set them apart from other similar bands of the times were that they sucked.
Then you have a musician like Tom Morello, who DID have a unique sound, but in my understanding had nothing to do with greater exposure to “black” music, and was simply because he was a brilliant guitarist who experimented with sound a lot. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people who attribute his success and sound to the former rather than the latter.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 4:51 pm ¶
B. Canseco wrote:
one of the best rock bands I saw this past decade was Black Jack Johnson Project–Mos Def on lead, Doug Wimbush (LC/RollingStones) on drums, Dr. Know on guitar and Bernie Worrell on keys.
It was one of the best shows I ever saw, period. It was me, the 5 black dudes on stage–a couple brothers and sisters and about 3,000 white kids. And they were all totally confused.
For 90 minutes they saw 5 black men playing rock music, funkier, louder and angrier and more soulful than any band they’d probably ever been exposed to before.
And all of Black Jack’s albums tanked. so did the tour. Nobody supported them. Not in any decent numbers.
My point is BlackRoc is as much about marketing as it is about music. The Black Keys have a following. “Roc” still has cache–hence Jay’s new label RocNation.
And all Black rock band? On a major label? who supports that, really?
For all our outrage about what should be, who bought Living Colour’s most recent album? Who really supports black rockers or black punks or black classical artists?
we like the conventional boxes black artists are in. Hence, the constructs continue.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 5:58 pm ¶
Keith wrote:
@Yonnie3k don’t patronize me, I know exactly what I am talking about. And don’t give me that lame excuse about the name of the group. they could have named it anything they wanted but they chose that name because trying to sell it ass some new black thing.
If they called it Asian rock or Jew rock it would just be as ignorant.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 6:46 pm ¶
Alesia wrote:
@Keith – there is no disconnect on my end. I understand the author is frustrated with the lack of support for Black rock musicians and the name of the project. However, it’s clear from the first paragraph that he has not heard the music or done any research beyond the name. This project is shedding light on the history of rock and roll, not hindering it’s progress. As for Dame – he’s an opportunist – we already knew this. Pout over the name all you want, the music is solid and the intentions of the artists involved shine through.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 8:38 pm ¶
Keith wrote:
@Alesia – You know what’s funny? the author of the story is an opportunist yet the clowns that came up with this lame ass project aren’t? Give me a freaken break. I am sick and tired of people exploiting the black experience for profit.
So save your little speech.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 8:50 pm ¶
ashlynn wrote:
MAJOR eyeroll.
I have never felt comfortable with rappers in general appropriating what they found cool and them peacing out on it. Same for the hipsters who say that their shit is influenced by Jodeci or something. I’ve said it here before that I still feel the remnants of being the “white kid” for being very much into rock music and then having the actual white kids turn around and call me a poser for being a black person who liked something other than the stereotypical music I was expected to listen to as a black person. Now I see talentless people out here claiming to be “rock stars” and playing two busted ass chords now wanting to be rockers and be “different.” And then that gives you all the kids throwing up devil’s horns like they know anything about it, skinny white chicks wearing dunks and neon and gold chains like they know anything about it. And BOTH those groups would be soo lost if they every actually ventured into the cultures they insist on appropriating from.
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 10:07 pm ¶
ashlynn wrote:
And to add to that comment, I know a lot of the artists mentioned have definitely used rock music in the past, but they people that they are targeting don’t know the half…and let’s be honest- black rock artists are so underexposed- do we really need hip hop to come in and take what little shine they have?
Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 10:09 pm ¶
Shauna wrote:
I think we may be blaming this one collaboration for the lack of exposure of black rock bands and their lack of acceptance.
The reason Dash says he chose the Black Keys is that he heard them, and was inspired to do a collaboration. He didn’t think of a rap/rock collaboration and then choose a white band. And then ditto for the reason behind the name.
These are individuals and I think its unfair to blame them for structures at play, like music labels not signing black rock bands and society stereotyping rock as white.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 2:35 am ¶
Arabi wrote:
I don’t think Rock really exist as a true genre.
Obviously, the music early black rock n ROLL musicians were making back in the 50’s is drastically different from what is typically associated with rock.
Rock largely refers to a vast array of different styles and genres which have only in common the race of their performers thus its basically “white” music.
In contrast you have Urban music which we all knows refers to “black” music.(Under this would fall black musicians who mistakenly believe they are making “Rock” music. I emphasize, the race of the performer is more a determinant of genre then the actual sound of the music. Hence, Eminem gets played on Rock stations.)
These distinctions are all very important for those who market the product because the taste of the buyer is highly mediated by their socially defined “racial” identity.
Its no accident black folks listen to “black” music and white folks largely listen to “white” music though crossing over can be a source of acquiring “hip” credentials. (Rappers liking the new Indie jam, Rockers rocking the Kangols and whatever)
It shows that your daring and not confined by the status quo. Its all about social and cultural capital not to mention finance.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 3:20 am ¶
CVT wrote:
I’m torn on this one (and pissed because I can’t download music from Amazon from outside the U.S.).
As a hip-hop fan, I always think it’s cool when emcees and djs and producers (whoever) branch out and try to work off less “mainstream” hip-hop influences. That’s what music is all about – collaborating and creating new sounds. Taking great artists from all sides, throwing them all together, and letting them jam . . .
That said, I hear the author on this one, as well. Why does this cross-pollination have to happen between the black hip-hop crew and white rockers only? If an all-black rock band put the feelers out to do this project, would it have happened? Doubtful.
But is it a race thing? I don’t think that’s necessarily it, specifically. It’s just a name-brand thing. It’s fame and money. The Black Keys are a big deal, so they can get this to happen. Almost any all-black rock group? No name, so no-go. Of course, race is mostly why a talented all-black rock group wouldn’t have the name, but . . .
In the end, as a mixed-Asian hip-hop fan who enjoys live classical music, a touch of indie-rock, and performs spoken-word poetry about race, I know all about how hard it is for the non-mainstream races to get their due in the arts . . .
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 7:58 am ¶
Sean wrote:
@ B Canseco
“It was me, the 5 black dudes on stage–a couple brothers and sisters and about 3,000 white kids.”
You ought to try going to a jazz or blues festival. lol.
@ lainad
“No offense to the Black Keys, but there is more pressure on black musicians to perform within the cultural confines of what is perceived as black music than it is to play what they play. there is a double-standard here…”
This is the sad truth. I remember actually cutting class on the day The Joshua Tree came out after anxiously waiting for it. After I listened to it, I wondered “Where are the black U2’s?” I was blown away by The Cure’s Head On The Door and Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me albums and couldn’t figure out why the only black artists I saw in the mainstream at that time -excluding Prince or Tracy Chapman- seemed to be stuck in perpetual artistic ghettos:
The slick soul loverman.
The R&B diva.
The dj
The rapper.
Meanwhile, I was totally digging the diverse, free, devil-may-care artistry of Elvis Costello, The Clash, The Police, Depeche Mode, XTC, Tom Waits, etc.
I loved Jimi Hendrix and Bob Marley -who I liken to the black Bob Dylan- but they obviously weren’t making any new music, so I kept an eye out for any new, bright hopefuls. I rejoiced when Empty-V played videos by Robert Cray -a traditional-based black artist, but a slap to the face of all the slick, over-produced, mainstream black artists of the day.
I was over the moon when Living Color and Lenny Kravitz broke around the same time. I thought “Finally, we have black artists creating outside the box.” I naievely expected a renaissance of black creativity to flourish in their wake, but I soberly realized that those two artists were a fluke. Once in a while, a black “outsider” may get lucky and break through, but it’s more often the exception than the norm.
Later on in the 90’s, I remember reading an interview with Babyface. He released a single called “When Can I See You Again,” and he was worried about it recieving support because it featured an acoustic guitar!
A friggin’ ACOUSTIC GUITAR?????
The (artistic) struggle continues.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 11:41 am ¶
BSK wrote:
@Sean
““It was me, the 5 black dudes on stage–a couple brothers and sisters and about 3,000 white kids.”
You ought to try going to a jazz or blues festival. lol.”"
If I understood B. Canseco right, his point was not that he wanted to necessarily be in an all black crowd. Rather, he was getting at the fact that black rockers struggle to gain acceptance with black music fans and that black artists who cross the black/white divide of the music genres may still encounter difficulty crossing the black/white divide of music fans.
Of course B. Canseco could have gone to a jazz or blues fest and seen more PoCs. But he wanted to hear rock music.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 12:35 pm ¶
Alesia wrote:
@Keith FYI: I didn’t call the author of the piece an opportunist. Snark falls flat when you fail to proof read.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 12:43 pm ¶
B. Canseco wrote:
““It was me, the 5 black dudes on stage–a couple brothers and sisters and about 3,000 white kids.”
===
I guess I could’ve fleshed that thought out a little more but my larger point was when an all black band—a topnotch all blackband at that—tries to bridge gaps, they were met with little to know support. And the only reason most of those 3000 white kids were there was because there wasa big rumor that BlackStar was gonna reuinite that night. Most folk kept asking “where’s Talib?”
anyway…
I don’t blame Dame for trying this approach. It’s not the most revolutionary thing in the world, etiher. (Remember how tight everyone in the rock world got over RUN-DMC working with Aerosmith? They had no respect for RUN-DMC yet that collab resurrected Tyler/Perry’s whole career.)
I’m hoping this BlackRoc thing comes off, actually. Rock music has long since kicked black rockers to the curb so the fight really shouldn’t be with Dame. It should be with the larger industry who knows the truth.
the fight should also be with us for trusting mainstream folk to tell our stories and help preserve our culture accurately. How much stuff do we have to lose before we accept the fact that they have no vested interest in black folk staying at the forefront of music/arts or history that black folk created or had a key role in creating?
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 1:03 pm ¶
laromana wrote:
I don’t know if this has been suggested or tried by some of the excellent Black rock artists/other unique Black acts who are being ignored by the mainstream music industry, but, a few years ago Elijah Wood (actor-Lord of the Rings) started a label (Simian Records) to promote artists whose music doesn’t fit conventional marketing niches in the music industry. Elijah explained that has a history of loving all types of music/musicians and wanted to help promote ALL types of artists.
Maybe this type of label could help get more exposure for the Black artists that are being left out of the mainstream music world.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 1:44 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:
I completely understand where Rob Field and a lot of black rock fans here, are coming from. I mean – I feel it too. It sucks to feel alienated from people because you’re onto something that those same people will swing around and jock the second it becomes Approved By Approved Negroes. And it’s even worse when you aren’t even invited to the party.
But my hope is that this offers a moment to think about these collaborations critically and that this one in particular, opens doors. Though at this point I am beyond skeptical. Oh, and I also hate Damon Dash like hot hates cold. The hip hop/rock collaboration remains more of a boon for black people clutching mics than for those slinging guitars. I mean, Public Enemy may have expanded its fan base when it bumped fists with Anthrax but I don’t know that it helped Living Color much. If anything, seeing the video for ‘Bring the Noise’ meant you were definitely not seeing any Living Color videos that night.
When I make it out to see BLK JKS or Apollo Heights it gives me hope. Their crowds are increasingly diverse and their reach is growing. Maybe now is the time (again)?
@ B. Canseco
I saw Black Jack Johnson in NY (with Talib Kweli and Dave Chappelle) and the crowd was pretty much . . . like that. I think Black Jack Johnson was hurt by both the blackness and the Mos Def-iness. The blackness for obvious reasons but there are also lots of black rock fans who are religiously, vehemently anti-hip hop – it’s a stance that often comes from the need to prove one’s rock bona fides to skeptics (when it isn’t just a matter of taste). I’m not among their ranks but have (literally) butted heads over this more than once.
I also remember flipping through the Voice once and going “Wow, Black Jack Johnson is touring with Ben Harper????” . . . . so maybe there was some white Jack Johnson confusion sprinkled on top.
@ Yonnie3k
FellaKeys . . . . is hilarious. I died.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 1:53 pm ¶
Sean wrote:
@ BSK
“If I understood B. Canseco right, his point was not that he wanted to necessarily be in an all black crowd. Rather, he was getting at the fact that black rockers struggle to gain acceptance with black music fans and that black artists who cross the black/white divide of the music genres may still encounter difficulty crossing the black/white divide of music fans.
Of course B. Canseco could have gone to a jazz or blues fest and seen more PoCs. But he wanted to hear rock music.”
Umm, methinks my “lol” wasn’t understood.
I got B’s point. I was jokingly pointing out that a parallel scenario exists with jazz and blues artists. Have you been to a jazz or blues festival lately? I assure you wouldn’t see considerably more PoCs there either. The irony being that these musics were originated BY African-Americans, and the response by many middle-aged white hipsters that they’re keeping these genres alive.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 2:17 pm ¶
caroline wrote:
I watched this movie a few years ago and loved it. —
“Afro-Punk, a 66-minute documentary, explores race identity within the punk scene. More than your everyday, Behind the Music or typical “black history month” documentary this film tackles the hard questions, such as issues of loneliness, exile, inter-racial dating and black power.”
http://www.afropunk.com/page/afropunk-the-movie
I think it’s really important to recognize that there are black artists out there who play in underground scenes (and black listeners!)
Earlier Keith said — “Their are black cops too, that doesn’t mean that a racist white cop wouldn’t impede on my rights or even a black cop for that matter. Or maybe the ignorance of said black hipster is.”
I really think it’s odd that folks here keep ragging on so-called “hipsters,” as if they are necessarily exploitative and/or white. Maybe it depends on how you define “hipster,” but I believe we need to better interrogate how alternative black musicians/listeners fit into our perceptions of what music is “black,” “white,” or white-appropriated.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 3:14 pm ¶
PPR_Scribe wrote:
Seconding Latoya:
Whatever you think about the name or the project, please check out the Bold as Love compilation. Great stuff.
@ Laina re:
It is disappointing when someone with ‘game’ (or at least used to) in the industry like Dash could easily work with one of these bands like Game Rebellion or the African death metal band, Wurst, and give them some shine. Dash seems to be more concerned with the trends of white indie rock artists than helping black folks create their music.
I do not know enough about the background of the project or why it specifically involves The Black Keys. But this is key for me–quite apart from any (ostensibly) logical reason why it is named as it is.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 3:35 pm ¶
Sean wrote:
Thanks BoldAsLove, for that Fire In The Dark compilation and thanks Latoya, for bringing it to my attention. It’s currently rotating in my iPod. I’ll definetely explore some of these artists further.
I’m surprised no one’s brought up King’s X. If ever there was a band that should have broke big…
Killer songs, heavy riffs, amazing vocals and harmonies, classic albums such as Gretchen Goes To Nebraska, and consistent critical darlings.
So why can’t they even sell an album to their mothers?
I’d hate to think it’s not only because their lead singer, songwriter, and bass player is black, but openly gay.
Worthy of ANOTHER thread entirely.
Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 3:45 pm ¶
Lainad wrote:
Sean, you are definitely right about Kings X. I’ve seen the band play and Doug is amazing. the music is really heavy but a with lot of funk and soul. As a metal journalist I know that the metal community has really been at the forefront of supporting this band, but “black” publications – to my knowledge, anyway – have completely ignored this group.
One thing I wanted to comment on is the audience thing. I went to see Living Colour a few weeks ago and I was really hoping for a large black turnout. The crowd was predominately white ( and older) but there was about ten brothers and sisters up in there – the majority of them I knew from being somewhat involved in the black alternative scene in Toronto.
Since I’m used to being the only black female at metal shows, or one of 3-4, it used to really bother me that when I went to see Hip-Hop shows like Jurrasic 5 and/or The Roots, there were hardly any black people there. The ironic thing is that when you went, the white folks looked at you funny, like you were invading their space.
You can’t win, can you?
I am working on a book and one of my interviewees said that the main problem is that black folks have given up on live music. they do not want to go see a show where there is not a 100% guarantee that the show is going to be great. They are not willing to experiment, check out artists that they might not know well beforehand, and white people are more likely to take that risk.
I don’t know if I completely agree with this, but one thing that I think is problematic is that black folks are just a guilty as labelling a band as a ‘white’ band or a ‘certified, 100% black’ band, and make their listening choices on that. Our cultural authenticity is tied to our musical preferences, and obviously white folks don’t reall have to worry too much about that.
Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 7:04 am ¶
Sean wrote:
@ Lainad
Out of curiosity, what is your book-in-progress about? You don’t have to give spoilers, but it sounds interesting.
“I don’t know if I completely agree with this, but one thing that I think is problematic is that black folks are just a guilty as labelling a band as a ‘white’ band or a ‘certified, 100% black’ band, and make their listening choices on that. Our cultural authenticity is tied to our musical preferences, and obviously white folks don’t reall have to worry too much about that.”
I can certainly agree with it. It’s the very reason why so many black kids today don’t recognize rock as part of our cultural heritage, or see themselves as part of the lineage. A lot of that has to do with media outlets like Empty-V selling white faces with a rock soundtrack.
On that note -and since you know the Toronto scene very well- whatever happened to Fefe Dobson? Can I presume she was another casualty of what we’re talking about?
Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 10:38 am ¶
cocolamala wrote:
i’m tired of hearing that white audiences are keeping old forms of black music “alive” as if that is something audiences deserve a cookie for, rather than being seen as audiences following their own tastes.
The implication is that black audiences are somehow undeserving of their musical legacy because they do not patronize it “enough.”
However, this viewpoint ignores the fact that in hip hop, the custom of sampling requires knowledge of music history — the genre has a revivalist mode already built in.
If you don’t sample, the creativity of hip hop artists/producers is discounted anyway because they don’t play instruments — their mastery of a technics turndable or an 808 beat machine or GarageBand is an unimportant contribution to music because those instruments weren’t invented 150+ years ago out of something made of wood or brass.
it seems like hip hop music is redefining the concepts of what constitutes music, what constitutes playing/performance, and how audiences are listening.
if white audiences are so good at providing “life support” for black arts, why aren’t they doing triage on the black rock scene? why are performers in the music market still expected to play “their roles” according to their race and fit into their racial musical niche?
Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 11:51 am ¶
Lainad wrote:
FeFe?
From what I understand – and I’ve said this privately to people in the past – she was a manufactured rock artist. That’s all I will say and because I know a couple of black women who were authentic rock artists – paid their dues, etc. who were sidelined because of her, it pisses me off. So just keep in mind that I’m biased!
I’m working on a book on black women in the metal scene and I write about this issue, judging people’s allegiance to their race through the music they listen to. There is unbelievable angst for young teens who feel that they have to keep their music preferences quiet. For some that are not too serious about it, they can work it out, but for others they are worried ( and sometimes rightly so) that they will lose friends and family members if they ‘come out.’ It’s crazy, but I understand – been through it!
Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 12:04 pm ¶
Sean wrote:
Hey Lainad, welcome to the club. LOL. It’s always amazed me how something as seemingly innocuous as the type of music you like can totally cast you out… especially if you’re a POC.
I grew up in the South Bronx – the cradle of hip-hop, and actually loved the music. My problem was that it wasn’t the only type of music I listened to or liked. Like I said, I loved The Cure to the point of actually straightening my hair and wearing it fright wig style, like Robert Smith…IN THE SOUTH BRONX! LOL!! It wasn’t easy, and it didn’t endear me to my peers, but I was proud that I liked Eric B and Rakim’s Paid In Full AND Sting’s Nothing Like The Sun albums.
I figured Fefe was a manufactured answer to acts like Avril Lavegne, (sp?) but I was still gob-smacked to see her being hyped as a rock artist. It seems she disappeared as fast as she arrived. I’m sure there were more talented, deserving artists that got sent packing. That’s the way the story typically goes, unfortunately. Good luck with your book. It’s a deep an unexplored subject.
@ cocolamala
Yes, I’ve always got that implication as well. As if we are not entitled to our heritage because black people don’t support it the way we used to. I got into blues -and by extension rock- after seeing an album cover with Muddy Waters playing a guitar. I discovered that the blues is the fountainhead of so much modern music, be it jazz, R&B, rock & roll, you name it.
At some point in the 60’s, white kids, particularly from England started playing the music. The most well-known of which include Eric Clapton and The Rolling Stones. They all stole their licks and songs from the likes of Muddy, B.B. King, Buddy Guy, et al. This resulted in “acceptance” of blues by a white audience stateside.
Today, you are far more likely to find blues bands consisting of white musicians than black ones. At the same time, the music has largely reached a state of arrested development and really hasn’t progressed in about 40 years. Compound that with the fact that many of these white blues performers have a proclivity to a minstrelsy “jive” schtick, and things start to get weird.
These days, unless you know where to look, listening to contemporary blues is like listening to Dixieland jazz or ragtime. Really, in that light, it’s small wonder why black kids aren’t showing up.
Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 1:28 pm ¶
Nappy Mind wrote:
AfroPunk is touring now. Artists joining Saul Williams in some cities include Living Colour, Amp Fiddler, American Fangs, Earl Greyhound, The Smyrk and more.
Check out http://www.AfroPunk.com.
Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 8:17 pm ¶