NPR sort of hates “black music”

by Guest Contributor Kelvin


Last Monday, I was in the middle of my daily ritual of checking on my favorite online newspapers and blogs, when I happened upon a blog post on Slate.com written by Jody Rosen. The title of the post is “The DORF Matrix: Towards a Theory of NPR’s Taste in Black Music”. The author attempts to provide either a social commentary or critique on the selections in NPR’s All Songs ConsideredBest Music of 2009 (So far)”.

Rosen argues that music of black origin usually selected by NPR: (1) tend to be either from obscure or dead artistes black people don’t listen to (2) are restricted based on genre, and (3) heavily influenced by the majority white and male (with beards and guitars) NPR audience.

In the weeks since the publication of the All Songs Considered list, I have been puzzling over NPR’s musical coverage—in particular, its approach to black music. I wondered: Could NPR’s musical taste be as lily-white as the “The Best Music of 2009 (So Far)” list? After scouring NPR’s Web site and studying its broadcasts—All Things Considered profiles, Fresh Air interviews, even the music interludes played between segments on NPR’s marquee programs—I can report that the answer is no. It’s not that NPR doesn’t like black music. It merely maintains a strict preference for black music that few actual living African-Americans listen to.

Now, I don’t have any particular issues with the writers description of the “Best Music of 2009 (So far)”, which is voted on by NPR listeners. If you look at the list itself, it’s pretty lily white and tends to hipster indie tastes. But that’s a topic for another day. My problem with the article is based on a framework defined by Rosen in his article called the DORF Matrix.  Rosen describes DORF as “an acronym for Dead Old Retro Foreign”.

Dead: artists who have shuffled off this mortal coil. There was a significant spike in this category this summer with the passing of Michael Jackson. In general, though, NPR prefers its dead black musicians decades dead. Bonus points are awarded to performers present at the 1963 March on Washington, and to Bobby Short.

Old: musicians of advanced years. Crusty soul-belters on the comeback trail, gray-bearded jazzers, Motown legends, defunct rap groups.

Retro: musicians, young or old, performing in styles two or more decades out of fashion. Sixties soul revivalists; old school rappers who “[stick] with the puns, jokes and silly one-upsmanship that once defined hip-hop …Thank goodness“; Lenny Kravitz.

Foreign: black folks who live in far-flung places. And/or the children of Bob Marley.

Essentially, the music of black origin played on most NPR shows don’t really appeal to more black folks because the music is from an artist that’s either dead, old or foreign. In my opinion, the author based the framework on a myopic vision of what black people in America really like and what constitutes true music of black origin. I could not help but feel that the author believes that the only way to have true representation of music with black origins is to have your traditional rap, hip hop and/or R&B included in any considerations at all times. This is a false premise because black people in America are as diverse as ever and it has become increasingly difficult to pinpoint what black people like.

In my opinion, the biggest flaw with this framework described by Jody Rosen is the idea that “few actual living African-Americans listen to” this kind of music. Even if it was truly the case the majority of music of black origin featured on NPR came from dead, old, obscure, foreign musicians, so what?

Does Rosen truly believe black people don’t possess musical tastes that fall far outside radio Top 40 music? Speaking as a regular listener , I think NPR tries to widen the horizon of their listeners by playing music rarely heard on your average urban or pop radio station. How many Clear Channel owned urban stations do you think would play “Speak Your Heart” by Lizz Wright or “They Say Vision” by Res in heavy rotation? Not too many.  These artists are not categorized as belonging to the rap or hip hop genre, but so what? Not all black artists perform in those styles, and not all black listeners automatically gravitate to those genres because of our skin color.

There is an incredible amount of diversity within the black community  and the inability of people to grasp this diversity in the year 2009 is simply amazing to me. Just in recent years, the number of black artists creating music in genres that aren’t readily identifiable with black has been on the rise. Artists like Santigold who had a smash hit with her 2008 album “Santogold” come to mind. There were reports of retailers having difficulties tagging her album with an appropriate genre.  In the end, some retailers just put her album in the hip hop section because; you know she’s black so therefore she has to be a rapper.  As musical artists evolve in their craft, I believe that the listening audience should also be given the chance to evolve with the music.

I think that it’s high time the idea that black listeners only relate to rap, hip hop and R&B should go out with 2009.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. NPR, DORF, IDK? « (pressed) on 20 Oct 2009 at 1:20 pm

    [...] Racalicious.com contributor explores some potentially overt hate. [...]

  2. You talk about DORF like it’s a bad thing. | my five year plan. on 20 Oct 2009 at 8:27 pm

    [...] Kelvin at Racialicious discusses one of the things I hated about Jody Rosen’s awful explication of what she terms the “DORF” phenomenon at Slate – namely, Rosen’s gross typing of what “actual living African Americans” listen to. Rosen’s piece, which excoriates Stuff White People Like Media like NPR, The NY Times Magazine, and Starbucks, for only playing or discussing music made by black people who are either Dead, Old, Retro, or Foreign, props up the Billboard Hot 100 list as a) more representative of what ‘actual living African Americans’ listen to and b) more progressive than the beard-rock of All Songs Considered by sheer virtue of Having Been Made By Black People. [...]

  3. A Reverse Reformation? | Xenia Institute on 21 Oct 2009 at 5:31 am

    [...] NPR Sort of Hates “Black Music” – Racialicious Rosen argues that music of black origin usually selected by NPR: (1) tend to be either from obscure or dead artistes black people don’t listen to (2) are restricted based on genre, and (3) heavily influenced by the majority white and male (with beards and guitars) NPR audience. Please Share and Enjoy: [...]

  4. Arroz Con Beans | Linkage on 22 Oct 2009 at 4:07 am

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    [...] 25 October, 2009 · Filed under activism, badasses, body politics, bullshit advertising, environment, feminism, film, general assholery, general healthcare fuckery, human rights, immigration, racism, rape, sexism, world Racialicious: NPR sort of hates “black music” [...]

Comments

  1. cocolamala wrote:

    you know, i agree with the poster that black ppl listen to a wide variety of music genres.

    however i agree with the SALON author that only playing black artists who are DEAD, OLD, RETRO, or FOREIGN is limiting.

    If NPR music editors can find white musicians who are living, fresh, contemporary, community members, well do they cover black musicians who are similarly positioned?

    Contemporary, fresh black arts doesn’t necessarily mean black artists performing hip hop or R&B. Where is their coverage of black rock bands, or black folk singers, or black gospel artists, or black electronica composers…or black experimental artists?

  2. atlasien wrote:

    The concept of the DORF matrix is kind of funny. I can’t stand NPR-type music in general.

    I remember listening to one news show where the NPR music critic discussed all the bands that were playing at SXSW. He mentioned some interesting new genres and experimental groups, then said, “well here’s the music I liked” and played clips of the the absolute most boring, safe and derivative stuff. So he covered the festival using the approach “I heard there there were some cool bands, but I won’t actually play any for you.” Thanks a lot, you suck as a music critic.

    But getting back to the point of the piece… although the DORF matrix is amusing, I agree with Kelvin that it’s kind of problematic

    It upholds the opposite of DORF (LYCA? – Live Young Current American?) as somehow more “real” and representative of all black people. And that’s insulting and dismissing to people who don’t fall into the LYCA category.

    Here in Atlanta, our lone NPR station plays SIX HOURS of bland classical music from 9am until 3pm. Our news-craving family likes to call that 6-hour period “the classical music death march”. So at least for our NPR station, the music selection reflects almost total DWM (Dead White Men) domination, not DORF.

  3. Persia wrote:

    The first time I’d heard of TV on the Radio was on NPR, though the plural of anecdote still isn’t data. And I believe NPR was the first time I’d heard of Jay Smooth, too.

    A lot of NPR’s music coverage is pretty terrible– not because it’s old or white or whatever, but because it’s unbearably pretentious. There’s only, IIRC, one reviewer I can stand.

  4. Amused0472 wrote:

    It is ridiculous for her to presume to what music black people do and do not listen.

  5. Kaitlin wrote:

    Just as a side note (because I know the list itself wasn’t the point), when I listened to the segment introducing the Best Music of 2009 (So Far), the host did actually address the white, male, bearded bias in the list.

  6. Sean wrote:

    Given that there’s very little western music these days that ISN’T influenced by black music/culture/musicians, I find the DORF matrix pretty ironic.

    More ironic still is that the majority of black/African-American music which suits my taste fall into said matrix….and I’m black. ☺

    Excuse me while I get out my afro pick, dashiki, and (vinyl) Charlie Parker records.

  7. Barbara Smith wrote:

    If I am not mistaken, Jody Rosen is a man, and I find the article of Rosen’s ironic for several reasons.

    First, I would agree that African American people listen to all kinds of music, but I also too think it would be interesting to develop a matrix of picks from “All Songs Considered” against playlists from Fusebox Radio (http://fuseboxradio.podomatic.com/) to gain an understanding of the representation of Black Music on NPR (or elsewhere for that matter). FuseBox (note: I am not affiliated with them whatsoever) has the express interest in playing “Black Music” and they cover Black music from the U.S. and the diaspora. While I don’t like everything they play, I do like the variety and I’m not sure I hear much of what they cover on NPR.

    Second, while I think Rosen has a pretty good command and respect for urban music and people of color in music, I can’t say the same for other people at Slate. It has been my longstanding complaint that in their podcasts, Slate tends to relegate their correspondents of color to the Root podcast and not feature such correspondents very often in the Political Gabfest or Culture. The resulting lack of cultural diversity means on the one hand there are columnists who interrogate race issues (though most of the sharpest critiques occurs on the sister site of The Root and not on Slate itself), but the podcasts represent the opinions of the White elite.

    It would be nice if they could have various segments that would vary these perspectives somewhat in an authentic way and not just toss in a music critic once a month to talk about Michael Jackson or Beyonce.

  8. Evan wrote:

    In DC, we have two prominent NPR stations (WETA and WAMU). The WETA station plays dead white male music from the 18th century (Mozart, Beethoven et al) all friggin’ day.

    WAMU will play blue grass music for hours on weekends. I have to admit that this is an unusual musical genre selection for an urban area like Washington, DC. There’s no other NPR station that plays this stuff.

    I used to listen to many 20-something indie bands (predominately urban white and Asian-American hipsters). I got bored with the music because the bands had nothing to say about the world. The bands were emotionally distant from the listener. I gravitated towards jazz (Coltrane, Monk) and industrial/metal music because there are strong connective messages of love, fear, hope, anger, and the struggle against alienation.

  9. Sarah wrote:

    The great thing about NPR is that members “own” and influence NPR and it’s affiliates. If you see NPR is lacking, they’re fairly responsive (extremely responsive in comparison to, say, Clear Channel).

    It’s hard to blame NPR for song their membership picked (and let’s be honest, online voting for songs by an NPR audience? Likely gamed by techie hipsters, who I’m guessing, regardless of race, tend to share similar musical tastes). However, should you want to influence the music NPR plays in the future–all you need to do is start a dialog with your local NPR station. Gather other members, become a member, and get on the phone to them.

    That 6-hour classical death-march is probably a cost-savings move by the NPR station; what would those 6 hours sound like if that NPR station’s members clamored for, and supported, something different?

  10. ad wrote:

    TV on the Radio, Flying Lotus, and Dj Rupture are still black right?

  11. thebiblophile wrote:

    @cocomala cosign…

    Then I went and read Rosen’s piece and the tone I just found troublesome, then I went to the link for All Songs Considered and actually listened to the music….and…..and there’s NO DIVERSITY. How is is that Wilco and The Decembrist can be listed multiple times but Santigold gets no listing? I don’t get it….or I get it and am choosing ignorance.

    @ 9 Sarah…yes!

    Has anyone seen NPR’s top 100 songs of the 20th Century? How would the DORF/racial/gender analysis work on this list? What do folks think of the selections?

    http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/vote/list100.html

    @ 7 Barbara Smith: Thank you for your thoughts and for the suggestion re: fusebox.

  12. Winn wrote:

    I am a black woman who listens primarily to indie rock, mostly British, so the NPR list is right up my alley. In fact, my favorite American CDs of the last couple of years, from MGMT’s “Oracular Spectacular”, to Bon Iver’s “For Emma, Forever Ago”, to Blitzen Trappen’s “Furr”, to Fleet Foxes, were all works I was introduced to on NPR. I’ve been an Animal Collective and Grizzly Bear fan for years, when their work was far too eccentric and esoteric for NPR, but ASC brought me other bands like Phoenix, Camera Obscura, and St. Vincent, artists I would have come across anyway, but discovered that much earlier on NPR.

    However, having admitted to my white, hipster male bias in music, I also admit that I’ve heard coverage of TV on the Radio, Black Kids, The Noisettes, Bloc Party and The Dears on NPR: contemporary, non-hip hop or R & B bands that, while all musically different, definitely have black members and offer another perspective on “black music” and what its “supposed” to sound like. I’ve also heard stories and interviews on NPR with Lupe Fiasco, Goodie Mob, Mos Def, Danger Mouse, the RZA, Jill Scott, Chrisette Michelle, Laura Izibor, and K’Naan, none of whom, last I checked, are dead or old, and only Izibor and Michelle could be called retro, either by influence or performance style. K’Naan is admittedly, foreign, but does that mean we must exclude black music from other parts of the world? Thanks to NPR, I had discovered Amadou and Mariam about nine years ago, long before they were anointed by the hipster bible Pitchfork (talk about pretentious!) and were touring with Scissor Sisters or Coldplay.

    Even better, NPR stories have given me even more of an appreciation for jazz, blues, and even retro funk and soul with their celebration of older artists who may be deemed safer in cross-over appeal but who are certainly still worth celebrating and perhaps discovering by a new generation of African American fans who may have turned their noses up at that seemingly old-fashioned music in the past. When contemporary R & B artists wear their influences on their sleeves and hip hop artists continue to mine old blues, jazz and early soul records for samples, why shouldn’t we recognize and re-introduce the originators, especially if they are still writing and performing today? I get Rosen’s critique, but it seems to be based on a sampling and awareness of NPR’s musical offerings and the potential of them to expand tastes that is a limited and limiting as he claims the DORF matrix to be.

    P.S. Can I just say how much I heart Res and especially, “They Say Vision”? That song is still as mind-blowing now as it was in 2001, and “How I Do” is still in heavy rotation on my IPod.

  13. cocolamala wrote:

    i used to see the same effect in my local alternative paper. they covered ALL the local rock bands, ALL the new indie music on the national scene, but there was rarely a black artist to be found among the music reviews. almost never any hop hop or r&b, despite its popularity and sales volumes.

    now they do reviews of black artists at the national level (mainstream rap or soul/r&b), but they almost never review any local black musician’s albums — total absence of local hip hop coverage, and low to no recognition of black artists working in other genres. we have a performance poetry scene that never surfaces from the underground … chapbooks, cds, live performances that don’t see the light of day.

  14. Mieko wrote:

    That title pic’s really interesting. Where’s it from?

  15. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Mieko –

    It’s a frame from a Janelle Monae music video. I’m not sure which video though – I ran a search for the artist.

  16. politicallyincorrect wrote:

    Didn’t that website stuff white people like already point this out.

  17. Jess wrote:

    I looked at the 100 songs list of the century and didn’t see anything less than 20 years old at least, and the list to me looked pretty diverse, if sort of predictable.

    But then, if you are tracking the 100 greatest songs of the century, seems to me you wouldn’t be putting “Tomorrow Never Knows” on there, despite the fact that I and a lot of other Beatles fans dig it — I mean, it just doesn’t count (to me anyway) as influential enough. And much as I love Lou Reed, I cant think of anything of his I would put on that list, at least not now. So the predictability factor didn’t bother me as much.

    I might have thrown a Prince song on there tho. (I really think “Little Red Corvette” ought to be there, but that’s me).

    Seems to me that NPR has done a reasonably good job of introducing to the listeners a lot of stuff that just won’t get played at all anywhere else. Is there a whiteness factor to the selection? Of course, given who the staff is. but here in New York (WNYC) that isn’t as true as it might have been once. Even with the classical music — which I don’t particularly like — I mean, it does deserve to get heard someplace, and Clear Channel ain’t gonna be it.

  18. Birdseed wrote:

    I think both Rosen and commentators here are missing a very central point about these playlists.

    The issue is overwhelmingly one of class, not race. What’s completely missing from NPR’s scheduling is domestic working-class music, whether white or black or anything else – the hip-hop played is literate and educated, the country refined Americana. The tastes looked down on are not those of black people but of poor people in general – which is also why I think a lot of the middle-class commentators here feel left out. Pierre Bourdieu is probably right that the cultured middle class define their tastes as the opposite of whatever the poor listen too…

    If I’m right it’s interesting how it all becomes a race issue. I don’t think it’s easy to say what’s clear-cut white and clear-cut black music, yet this is the discursive tool-set we seem to have when talking about music.

  19. kenneth the menneth wrote:

    Hey Jess. You wouldn’t put Lou Reed’s “Perfect Day” on that list? Or even consider it worthy of consideration?

  20. Dee wrote:

    I’m glad Kelvin wrote this and I hope Rosen reads it and Kelvin’s post gets shared. Because it is very ridiculous to decide that black people only listen to a narrow range of now-popular music, its insulting. Even people who enjoy rap listen to a wide range of black artists from a variety of musical genres, because parents, grandparents’ have introduced them.

    It’s disconcerting when a person, black or otherwise (don’t know Rosen’s background for sure), limits black people in this way and I agree we need to raise awareness around this issue.

    I want to see the day when something like Rosen wrote will make most people cringe with vicarious embarrassment for him.

    -Dee

  21. al oof wrote:

    i feel like dead, old, retro, foreign holds up to all of the music on npr. most of the white hipstery stuff is retro even if they don’t talk about it in those terms. they never have hardcore or punk bands on.

  22. Winn wrote:

    @kenneth the menneth/@Jess: Well, the Velvet Underground’s 1967 album made the list, so the LP as a whole was deemed worthy of inclusion, rather than one sing. However, if we’re talking Lou Reed, I would argue that no one can deny the influence of “Walk on the Wild Side”. That song is still constantly referenced, from being sampled in hip hop (I’m ignoring Marky Mark (ew) and concentrating on A Tribe Called Quest, Jay-Z, and Lykke Li) and trip hop songs, to being quoted in movies and on television shows, and has been covered by countless artists from many genres. Plus, the song was incredibly daring for its day, and brought topics like male prostitution, transgenderism, drug use and clear allusions to oral sex into rock music in more explicit ways than they had been discussed before, if at all. Pretty influential, I’d say. Its made a number of other “Greatest Songs of…” lists, however subjective their worth, and I’d argue for its inclusion any day.

    However, although “Perfect Day” might make my list, it would be trumped by “Satellite of Love”, a song that is honey to my ears…

  23. Arabi wrote:

    I think black folks who frequent this page should realize that their tastes probably stray significantly from the black norm(and yes there is one) As someone who has worked in “urban” marketing my intuition is telling me that Rose has a good point.
    What is real and representative for most(note: I said most not all) young black people(note: i said young about 14-35) is not represented on NPR.
    There is no point in getting all bent out of shape and exasperated explaining that black folks have varied musical tastes. That’s a no brainer but there is a norm or tendency that is all too obvious to those who take the time to research musical tastes and racial demographics.
    Accept that most people who frequent this board are in all probability outliers on the racial musical taste curve.
    However, there is a lot to be said about the relationship between the DORF matrix and young, educated white folks. Lets be honest, along with foreigners, they’ve kept many older, black genres alive when the last two-three generations of black people have all but abandoned them.

  24. KMac wrote:

    I would also add that claiming that black Americans have no connection or desire to be connected to the dead/old/retro folks – note the specific reference to those involved in political action in the 60’s- reinforces the ‘postracial america’ ‘we’re over it’ discourse…

  25. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Arabi –

    That’s a no brainer but there is a norm or tendency that is all too obvious to those who take the time to research musical tastes and racial demographics.

    I’m clapping back on that one. I’ve never worked in urban marketing, but I have worked in market research – where y’all get the info from. And one of the most interesting thing I witnessed in my three or so years working is how folks who are gathering information often (1) reject information that doesn’t fit with their assumptions or (2) omit certain findings all together.

    For example, I’ve long been amazed at the increasing amount of overlap among teenagers w/r/t musical genres. While a lot of the teens I know and work with primarily listen to one genre, their collections will have a significant subset of cross over, something that was never covered in the urban reports I used to read/proof. And in talking to the publishers I found out that a lot of them simply didn’t know about the subject to ask questions that would lead them to this information.

    So, again, I doubt the norm is as strictly defined as some would make it out to be.

  26. John Rosenfelder wrote:

    Incredible article and mostly right. It’s complicated, but this is a topic I’ve been working on for decades as a radio programmer and promotion person for labels that were very white, like Geffen/DGC and very black, like Island Def Jam.

    * – there are fewer black djs in college radio stations because there are fewer black students in college than there are white.

    * – hip hop started on college radio but is limited due to its commerciality

    * – they just don’t listen to or recognize current r&b. it took two years to get musiq soulchild on world cafe although he is from philly. i actually used an argument that fits the DORF idea – “if he were from senegal, he’d be on.”

    * – few black records are promoted to the format with alacrity.

    *- retro artists like Black joe lewis (embarrassing name), robert randolph, keb mo and jazz revivalists are ok w/npr…

    did you forget all their jazz stations?!!?!

    i don’t think you are right about npr being racist towards black music, although on the surface, you make a correct analysis with DORF.

    most good black music is very popular. you don’t see elton john on npr either, as excellent as he is.

  27. ashlynn wrote:

    Eh, being that kid who whose musical tastes never quite matched up with her age group/demographic (Elementary School: Who’s Al Green?! Middle School: Who’s AFI?! High School: Who’s U2?! Now: Spoon? Like the utensil?!), I suppose NPR doesn’t bother me- one, because I’ve never really listened to it, and two, because of my musical tastes, and that of my friends, I DO know that though I’m certainly out of the norm, one shouldn’t assume the musical preferences of a huge group of people. Especially a group of people who have never really been allowed to be themselves anyway.

  28. ashlynn wrote:

    But I will say thanks to Kelvin, because I’m seeing a few new names that aren’t familiar to me that I’m definitely going to give a listen. Take that, assumptions! :)

  29. BSK wrote:

    I don’t really listen to NPR, but before I criticized the author and his theory of “DORF”, I’d want to know if this is unique to the “black music”. While I think the poster here is right to call him out on his assumptions about what music black people listen to, if NPR is able to find recent, modern, living white artists, then I would hope they could do the same for black artists. Otherwise, the implication is that black artists are not contributing anything worth listening to at present time.

  30. Roxie wrote:

    I discovered Santigold through NPR

  31. DreaD wrote:

    Birdseed said: “Pierre Bourdieu is probably right that the cultured middle class define their tastes as the opposite of whatever the poor listen too…”

    …unless of course the ‘cultured middle class’ is trying to prove their down-ness or hipness, as I would argue many of us angst-ridden middle class Blacks do – in which case we often do quite the opposite.

    Otherwise, cosign about class and NPR.

    cosign Arabi to a point…I don’t think we can assume that marketing data is capturing the diversity in what low-income young Black folks are listening to. Working with urban youth I’ve been quite surprised to hear a significant interest in various subgenres of rock.

  32. Angry Independent wrote:

    It’s always interesting when someone tries to establish a box for Black people (or any ethnic group for that matter). Who gets to define what “Black” is and who determines what music I should be listening to? It’s ridiculous.

    Rosen doesn’t know what he’s talking about. This reminds me of the time when a co-worker had to drive me to work several years back when I was temporarily without a car. The first day I got into his car, he proceeded to change the radio station from Pop to Hip Hop. He assumed that I liked rap music (when in fact, I can’t stand it). That trip to work was annoying and uncomfortable. And yes…the music bugged the Hell out of me. But I was more upset about the stereotyping. I finally got around to telling him.

    I happen to love NPR and enjoy their music selections and their guest artists.

    I think the most glaring thing about Rosen’s comments is how clueless he is about “Black music”. He talks about dead artists of the past like roadkill or a used kleenex. It just so happens that the 60’s and 70’s was the greatest era for Black musicians from a historical perspective. It was also one of the greatest times for American popular music overall.

    But for Black Americans….the music of that era (and other periods) was sacred. The music meant so much more…. it was (and is) an integral Part of the Black Heritage and the Black experience in America.

    How he misses that is beyond me.

    Another point that he misses is that NPR has a demographic that’s a little older….30ish on up (although all sorts of folks listen). But naturally the audience wants to hear about the musicians that they identify with most….the artists who they grew up listening to.

    I keep hoping for the day when Blacks don’t have to exist in these boxes anymore. I’m always writing about these Black social boxes.
    I’m a Black American, and I enjoy all sorts of music…. Rock, Jazz, Soul, Blues, Indie..World beat, .and have been listening to a wide variety of music for at least the past 20 years. NPR just covered Hall & Oates over the weekend… loved it.

    NPR deserves praise for not dumbing down into a VH1. Although I hate it when they cover Hip Hop artists. But they deserve praise for maintaining a balance and not compromising on standards and quality.

  33. Jess wrote:

    Winn/kenneth–

    Y’know “Walk on the Wild SIde” probably should be there. It did not occur to me because I just happen to organize all my albums alphabetically (I was a DJ at a radio station, old, OCD-like habit) and that song isn’t on the Lou Reed albums I have. (I do have it on the iTunes list tho — but my mental organization is still album-oriented).

    I happen to have on the shelf New York, (which is how I got into him back in — jesus, 1989? Crap I am old) and years later I picked up Magic and Loss and The Raven. These aren’t his strongest work, probably, though I think New York is vastly underrated.

    “Halloween Parade?” has to be the saddest thing about the NYC Halloween parade I have ever heard, and for those of us who were just starting to date and mate when AIDS was essentially a death sentence, it hits pretty hard. “Walk on the Wild Side” is a much more lighthearted look at the gay culture of NYC (understandably, as it is 15 years previous to New York) but you’re right it’s the song that first referenced that stuff explicitly.

    “Perfect Day” is also a good candidate, yes.

    @Birdseed — you don’t think Woody or Arlo Guthrie are working class music? Pete Seeger? Those are a few who are regulars on a lot of NPR shows and stations (not as much these days, but for a long time).

    I think you could have made a better case for your class argument 80 years ago. But post WW II that has changed drastically. One of the effects of consumer culture is that a lot of class differences, at least in terms of what people listen to, disappeared. If you went into a typical house in 1920 wealthier people who saw themselves as “cultured” would probably not have a ton of jazz (the hip-hop of its day) and would focus a lot on classical, chamber music, or the like.

    But if you did the same thing in 1955, the parents might follow that pattern, but the kids sure wouldn’t. And even now, if you were to go into a typical teenager’s room, could you, only by looking at the iTunes playlist or his/her CD collection, tell what economic class they were in? I think not. (You might be able to guess at the kid’s race/ethnicity, but it would be a guess and I’d put you at 50% at best).

    Not that class differences are absent entirely, of course they aren’t and weren’t. But it isn’t as simple as you put it , methinks. I mean, I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and I remember that the decidedly working-class hardcore punk movement from the UK got picked up by wealthier suburban kids right quick, while the working-class (white) kids I knew tended more to what is now deemed “classic” rock.

    @Ashlynn — you were a teenager and people were asking who U2 was? Man, things have changed :-) I remember half my high school was out all night to get tickets to the Joshua Tree tour, and every other freshman in college must have owned that CD when it came out. Which shows how far out of date I am, I guess. (And by the way, it’s that album’s cover that makes Eric Cartman’s routine on South Park about how to shoot an album photo for Faith + 1 so damned funny).

  34. cocolamala wrote:

    acting like white listners are not interested in hip hop is untrue and inaccurate.

    in fact, black listeners are not responsible for the vast majority of hip hop sales. the majority of hip hop/rap audience listeners and buyers are not black. sales to black audiences alone could not make albums go double platinum (which is why hip hop was underground and had limited distribution until large record labels figured out how to market it to their largely white audiences).

    this has always been the case, with regard to black music. the success of motown, rock, jazz and other genres of black origin are weighted by their mass appeal to white audiences.

  35. Lisa J wrote:

    It seems like he is making broad generalizations about NPR. There is no ONE NPR and NO station is required to play any piece of programming that is syndicated by the network. Every station is different and independent. In DC we have one that plays classical music and the other is all talk all day, with a few pieces highlighted occasionally on Terry Gross or something, and on the weekends they play mostly talk with some old jazz (hot jazz on Saturday) a half hour or so twice a week of “traditional” music from around the world and that is it for music shows and and contrary to what someone said they don’t bluegrass on the regular radio station at all anymore but they do have an hd3 channel entirely devoted to bluegrass. They used to play it in the afternoons for 3 hours every week day b/c listeners in rural MD and the southern most part of N. VA liked it and were big contributers. They went to talk until the 2000 election controversy when other people who had been enjoying hearing more typical NPR fare flooded the station with requests.

    Admitedly, I don’t listen to much modern “black” music, whatever that is, but to tag 100’s of stations nationwide, that have different memberships and formats and different mixes of talk and music with one broad brush is pretty crazy.

  36. Burgess Byrd wrote:

    I aquite agree with your comments Kelvin!!! I listen to NPR on a daily basis and find their music selections informative if anything. I have been turned on to several non-mainstream artist,vocalist and bands of color for years. These artists will never be blasted on commercial radio thankfully! I find it funny that MR.ROSEN doesn’t think that the average Black Person may not be hip to DORF!! Suprisingly, I have heard some TOP 40 plays as intro/outro music to alot of shows on NPR even interviews with some of today’s hottest acts. Please believe that the corporate dollars running public radio will never play “Soldier Boy”!

  37. Sean wrote:

    @ Arabi wrote:
    Lets be honest, along with foreigners, they’ve (young, educated white folks) kept many older, black genres alive when the last two-three generations of black people have all but abandoned them.

    A matter of perception. I see it as black artists continually innovating and evolving, while said “young, educated white folks” tend to ignore the new stuff and wax nostalgic about the old.

    That is, until a white artist starts performing the new music.

    The big wheel keeps turning.

  38. Kate wrote:

    I like NPR because it is talk radio. I hate NPR when they try do music, no matter what it is they can never get it right. The only time I can get down with musical coverage on NPR is if its a Terry Gross “Fresh Air” interview because they actually talk to the artists instead of attempting to assign cultural value to art through their lists and what they choose to cover. I hate the taste-making aspect of NPR and find it be rather pretentious in many ways. NPR is at its best when it sticks to news, interviews and political analysis.

  39. G.K. wrote:

    I listened to NPR (which, here in Detroit, is WDET 101.9 broadcast from Wayne State) Up until 3 years ago, they played all different kinds of music 8 hours a day and 8 hours a night. I listened to them for over a decade and learned to love anything they played on there–WDET played a hell of a lot of black artists who didn’t fit into the rap-hip-hop R&B format—a DJ named WIlly Wilson had this cool-ass show on Friday nights where he’d play a lot of obscure forgotten Detroit rock -n roll artists I’d never heard of anywhere else, not even on the regular mainstream rock stations. It was great, until they had to drop their wonderful 16 hours of music and became a mostly news station, because their donations went down due to the economy (this was back in 2006). They also played and supported a lot of brand new local artists that never got played anywhere on the dial either. At least they kept Ed Love’s old school jazz show, in which he plays a lot of good jazz you’re never hear on the smooth jazz stations.

    Anyway, there’s a 12-4 show Sunday afternoons hosted by Anne DeLisi, where she plays the kind of diverse music WDET used to play on a regular basis–thank goodness for that. I’m black and love anything that’ s fresh,experimental and not the same old same old you hear all the time. Before this Rosen made his/her assumptions, she/he should have done a little more research—I happen to love the music of dead/foriegn/retro whatever artists—I’ll listen to that before I’ll force myself to hear the latest hip rap hit 1000 times.

  40. Colleen wrote:

    NPR actually introduced me to Janelle Monáe… but that program isn’t on anymore (it was Weekend Edition’s coverage of SXSW).

    I switched to all podcasts during college so I don’t get any of the little musical bumps so I can’t really comment on that.

    The only NPR station I use for music is The Current, which is a subset of Minnesota Public Radio (and awesome), not NPR. And they can get pretty hipster, but it all depends on the DJ since it’s set up as free-format.

  41. lunanoire wrote:

    In Santa Monica, CA, the NPR station KCRW plays a LOT of music, especially mellow electronica and indie rock/pop/folk/etc. The show Chocolate City features black artist not always found on top 40 or “urban” stations. As much as I appreciate the show, it’s unfortunate that the station is based in a community college but the students don’t have the opportunity to learn the ropes the way they do at other colleges.

  42. ashlynn wrote:

    @Jess

    Excuse me while I go weep in a corner. I clearly was born in the wrong decade. Hahaa…I am still a teenager, btw- and I’d sell Soulja Boy’s soul to have had one friend who did not mind fangirling over Bono or waiting ages for the next album or hawking up their paltry checks to get that boxed set.

    Who am I kidding though- I would probably sell Soulja Boy’s soul regardless…lol.

  43. dejamorgana wrote:

    You know a writer is interested in showing off and pushing a certain point of view, rather than reporting facts, when he includes sentences that explain how some apparent exceptions really, really, no-really-i-betcha-didn’t-notice-THIS-because-i-know-more-about-music-than-you, aren’t exceptions. Sentences like:

    “Similarly, although Finale, an obscure rapper from Detroit, is, as of this writing, alive, he slips onto the DORF Matrix as a stealth (D): His “Song of the Day” entry “Heat” features a beat by the late producer J Dilla, to whom the track pays tribute.”

    In one sentence, Rosen demonstrates that he is down with obscure rappers from Detroit, is familiar with the works of the late producer J Dilla, and analyzes songs better than the average bear. This sentence is the essence of hipsterism.

    That sentence also magically fits almost every popular song written in the last couple of years into the DORF Matrix, in case anybody should dare to contradict the music guru. Common’s “Universal Mind Control”? Channeling Afrikaa Bambataa. 808s and Heartbreaks? Samples a Tears For Fears song. Rihanna? Duh, she’s foreign. Everything Lady Gaga ever sung? Totally Eighties. The Fray, ditto. Regina Spektor? Probably listens to the All-Kate Bush Pandora station 24/7, plus featuring numerous foreign influences. Wow, she’s an R and an F!

    (end sarcasm…)

    This is exactly why I don’t listen to NPR any more, unless I want to hear news or classical music. Rosen may be criticizing NPR in the article, but really he’s just playing the same old hipster game. I gave up on people who think their music has to be better/smarter/more authentic than everyone else’s a long time ago.

  44. pm wrote:

    @Birdseed

    That seems right to me. Just as ‘StuffWhitePeopleLike’ is really ‘StuffUpperMiddleClassUrbanLiberalAmericansLike’.

    Though I think its a trifle classist itself to credit Bourdieu with an observation that has been made a million times already, including by people who didn’t even go to university! Plus it goes further than such crude class divisions, its very noticable how the upper middle class distinguish themselves not so much from the working class as from the lower middle class in their attitudes and tastes (look at the animosity between, in this country, Guardian readers and Daily Mail readers). Classes tend to react most strongly against those closest to them.

  45. Kelvin wrote:

    I’m absolutely thrilled by the quality of the comments that have been posted. Cheers!

  46. LaSmartOne wrote:

    Where did you find that photo? It’s perfect!

  47. jess wrote:

    I listen to All Songs Considered once in a while, and used to listen to it every week. I think the important thing to remember about this show is that it has one curator – Bob Boilen – along with some interns and guest DJs who add their opinions once in a while, but maybe not for every show. So in essence this show is about Bob’s taste in music, which isn’t going to cover every genre and artist out there. He has admitted on the air in the past that he knows All Songs Considered is a bit of a misnomer because there is music that he simply doesn’t like, and doesn’t play on the show. I think that’s fair, and I don’t think we should expect him to play music he doesn’t like. It’s his show, after all. If we are talking about NPR as a whole, with all its different member stations, then I would say it is much more diverse musically.

  48. Adrian wrote:

    This was actually covered on the “Stuff White People Like” blog last year.

    http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/11/18/116-black-music-that-black-people-dont-listen-to-anymore/

    What it all comes down to is that white people are convinced that if they were alive when this music was relevant that they would have been into it. They would have been Alan Lomax or Rick Rubin.

  49. sandeep wrote:

    in a way its nice perhaps as a so-called south-asian to not have to deal with these sorts of things. there is, after all, no concept of what brown-skinned “indian-looking” folk listen to. The only crap i could assume would be potentially, beyond Ravi Shankar, probably Bollywood movie soundtracks (which do sell well), or perhaps Bhangra (which’s regionally specific to my grandparents, all four, place of origin). Beyond that… perhaps the whole grime/hip-hop/rnb deal going on over in the UK that brit “asians” seem to be getting into.

    But yeah… i think that without being raised within a Sikh and Indian-American community, I would have never been exposed to all that, not just the music itself, but the knowledge that such music was listened to within the Indian-American, and to a lesser extent Asian-American diaspora in America.

    So, while in a way it’s a shame we don’t really find music that originates in India, or music written/performed/sold by Indian-Americans aka South Asians aka Brown Skinned easterners… heh. (i’d rather be called brown-skinned than indian as i have no tie to the country, and its really the skin they’re trying to classify me by, so do it outright, goddammit, heh)… while thats a shame, its nice in a way that we don’t have such misconceptions about our community.

    although… perhaps you could say that what we have instead is worse… that burning hole of absolute lack of knowledge about our community by outsiders, in any way whatsoever… no education in the schools, really no exposure to the Joe Schmo besides their television and perhaps for the few vigilant detectives, net searches.

  50. Bruce Mack wrote:

    Yes, yes! I totally love your use of Janelle Monae’s picture (a current “Black” artist with a new sound) with a “white guy” chasing her – sort of copying the way she’s moving… This is a thoughtful and respectful post by “Kelvin”. And I agree that notions or “the idea that black listeners only relate to rap, hip hop and R&B should go out with 2009.” They should’ve been gone! Strangely enough too many Black folk have this same idea! Go figure. Anyone with that notion is blinding themselves from so many factions and fractions of Black life which are the incubators for the music we create.
    But I think such foolish thinking can be offset by the continued education and introduction to past and present music created by Black Folk and the politics of culture that precedes and follows it…. this will give one the why and how and bring one closer to global hipness. Three very good sources to get the “who”, “why” and “how” and keep up with Black Music are http://boldAslove.us (a blog created by Rob Fields which notes and comments on new black music and all things “Black Rock”), http://www.soul-patrol.com (a website created by Bob Davis honoring and chronicles the history of Black Music and provides sources to find many out of print recordings as well as new music), and there’s the http://www.Blackrockcoalition.com (A collective of artists, writers, producers, publicists, activists and music fans assembled to maximize exposure and provide resources for Black artists who defy convention. To date, the BRC is the only national nonprofit organization dedicated to the complete creative freedom of Black artists). There are no excuses for one not knowing what’s gong on in Black music if one is REALLY interested. Get hip.

    -Bruce Mack – former president of the Black Rock Coalition, Musician, Educator, producer and host of “FreeWorldNetworkRadio-X” on Taintradio.org

  51. Bruce Mack wrote:

    Correction: The Black Rock Coalition website is http://www.blackrockcoalition.org