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1. Are we really living in a post racial world? « Global Fusion Productions Inc on 20 Oct 2009 at 5:25 am

   [...] http://www.racialicious.com/2009/10/06/lou-jing-china-and-expressions-of-racism-online/ [...]

Comments

1. Logan wrote:

   Living in Beijing, China the last year, I unfortunately did not really get my Chinese up to the point I could talk with anyone who wasn’t a co-worker of mine. However, hearing this didn’t really surprise me. From discussing matters with coworkers, Chinese and foreigners, with more experience, there were a couple very basic kinds of racism/prejudice felt.

   1: With Africans/real dark skinned people, the perception was that they were Nigerian, and thus the drug dealers in China. My friends almost always mentioned the Nigerian Dude they went to when they wanted to get some pot, and I met one African in Taiwan who I talked with for a while, who he mentioned how he hated living in China because people were constantly approaching him (white and Chinese) about hooking them up.

   There is also a small bit of Government endorsed racism, depending upon how you look at the situation. Due to the political issues with Taiwan (another subject of some Chinese’s ire; a friend told me about talking with local villagers about Taiwan, and how one said just kill them all and be done with it), there is, in essence, a competition for getting developing African countries to recognize China instead of Taiwan (since those countries would be the only ones who don’t have enough economic ties to have their hands tied in being able to recognize Taiwan). Basically, if they recognize China instead of Taiwan, the country gets a ton of scholarships for students to study in China to study business Chinese. There is just something that kinda strikes me off as giving a person a scholarship only because you want to stick it to another country.

   2: To hearken back to the skin-whitening in India thread a few weeks back, skin tone amongst Chinese is another example of racism that I’ve seen. The belief, as I understand it, is that those with a darker skin tone are more likely to be farmers, and thus more undesirable, while those with a lighter skin tone would be more business or upclass people, people who are better off. Most general stores are going to have at least a shelf of skin-whitening creams, if not more (and I even got warned by friends when looking for skin moisturizer to make sure it wasn’t skin whitening cream I got).

   Now, I wasn’t expecting as much vitriol as I read in the comments, and I certainly feel bad for Lou Jing for being exploited as she was. I mean, on one hand I’m not so surprised, especially considering how bad the States is, well, always, but it did seem a little much for how everything happened.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 7:14 am ¶

2. Tiptopcat wrote:

   Hi there,

   I am now going to show my complete ignorance but i couldn’t even believe that the girl pictured above was mixed raced. As I have never heard of her or about this story, I kept wondering who you were talking about.

   I did not realise that someone born of two different races could have such dark skin. so I have definitely learned something today. Thank you.

   with regards to the racism, a lot of people just do not want to believe it exists and that some people can be so violently vitriolic about their views. It is such a shame that we have reached the 21st century and still have to deal with these constant reminders that skin colour still divides people.

   I hope that both mother and daughter are both strong enough to weather the storm and that they know that the majority of people are not so small minded.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 7:37 am ¶

3. Jo wrote:

   I do find it interesting that in her statement, she made it a point to emphasise her father is American not African. Would the reactions have been even worse if he was African? I don’t really understand.
   I am sure there are some interracial people(as in mixed with black) in China but is it because she came out darker than most infuriates people or because her mother cheated on her husband with a black man? So many questions

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 7:56 am ¶

4. vcious wrote:

   Very sad. The “zebra” comment, ugh WTF?

   In my country there are some celebrities of mixed race who are born and raised Finnish, and I’m sure there are comments like these online about them but hopefully so few that they don’t make headlines because of it. Nationality, cultural identity, don’t just boil down to skin colour. I guess it’s tough for some ignorant people in homogenous countries to understand.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 8:17 am ¶

5. Shiyiya wrote:

   Urgh. People are horrible everywhere, it seems, and the internet gives them an opportunity to spew it and find people who agree :/

   On a side note, she’s gorgeous.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 8:23 am ¶

6. Shanghai Lisa wrote:

   Ugh, trust China Smack for the dregs of the Chinese internet scandals, itself the dregs of Chinese society.

   Lou Jing has the ambivalent fortune of become the poster child for China’s expanding ethnic diversity. Kudos and condolences, that must be tough to bear as such a young woman, and from your own society – she is born and raised Shanghainese. The perpetual outsider factor in China, towards ethnic and racial minorities, and even towards Han who look more Japanese or Korean or Vietnamese, is pretty harsh.

   At least she is in Shanghai, which is a city of Chinese immigrants and thus more mellow. Beijing, or Taiwan or Hongkong, or smaller cities, would give her and people like her a much harder time – in most circles at least.

   I’m glad to see a post about Lou here, finally. I’ve been talking about her in the comments here for a while. While I know that those talent shows are embarassing, and make morons of everyone, I really appreciate her bravery in putting herself out there.

   But I’m not sure how I feel about her getting picked up, finally, by Time Mag et al – oft portrayed as a phenom and freak show. She’s a sheltered Shanghainese girl, with limited English, getting exotified in the Western press. Here included. She’s an inspiration for handling it so well – but she is also still a kid, and I worry about her.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 8:31 am ¶

7. Kandeezie wrote:

   @TipTopCat – if you’re from North America, I think you might just be use to seeing a whole bunch of mixed race people identify as only black (or only xyz), thus becoming the standard, as to why you would be shocked that a mixed person would look like that.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 9:33 am ¶

8. Jess wrote:

   Logan brought up an interesting point — I might adjust it a bit by noting that the dark skin issue he describes isn’t one of race, per se, but class.

   My grandmother — Japanese — whose family never met any black people, as far as I know (they were in Utah, and the area was pretty white back then, and all Mormon) noted that she was always chided by other Japanese people for having “peasant” skin and features. (She was relatively dark and short).

   In Europe, long before anyone there ever met an African person, lighter skin was desirable because it meant you were wealthier, with all the good stuff that goes with that. The skin-lightening issue in India likely has similar roots.

   Generally speaking, if you are a farmer, historically you would be short (crappy nutrition a lot of the time stunts height) stocky (lots of heavy labor) and tanned (lots of time in the sun).

   Now, let’s drop in a society that isn’t terrifically racially diverse to begin with. Throw in people who look like peasants (they are dark). Mix well and watch the fireworks.

   There is also a bit of closed-ness in many Asian societies — Japan is sort of the uber-version — where purity of ethnicity is a big issue. In Japan it sort of makes sense as the last big wave of immigrants (relative to the population) was back in 1000 CE or so, so they are a bit out of practice in dealing with that.

   China is similar in that respect — even though it was always much less isolated (not being an island you couldn’t do the equivalent of the Tokugawa isolation policy).

   But it was a relatively insular place, for its size, for a long period. While there is a gigantic Chinese diaspora I always thought it interesting that the central government still took the attitude that “well, we know everything, and what could we learn from anyone else?” Well, the Chinese people paid dearly for that mistake by getting pushed around by the great powers for a century or more.

   I think when you throw that (oversimplified) history together with a new influx of people form all over the place, then you get this kind of tension, and expressions of prejudice and racism.

   I’d hesitate to draw too many parallels between what we see there and in the US, though. The histories are too different. There’s no history of race-based slavery, for example, and the “one drop rule” that was in the US would be simply nonsensical in China (or many other countries that had slavery) as there just wasn’t the whole elaborate edifice we constructed here to marry slavery and capitalism.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 10:06 am ¶

9. gracey wrote:

   She is stunning . Why doesnt she move to Paris or the States. They will love her here.

   Mixed race coupling results in a a range of skin colour.

   And get this: Some times neither parent is white and Black Americans have fair complexion and light eyes. i.e. Vanessa Williams and Prince the singer. Neither of the former persons parent is white.

   Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 10:18 am ¶

10. Ei wrote:

    China as a whole is homogenized like Korea and Japan, and unlike those two China is far bigger. Even though China has 50 or so ethnicities, vast majority of them look Asian and can pass as Han Chinese from the outer appearance, so most people in China never ever dealt with racial issues before. So this kind of things bound to happen.

    Aside from the racial angle, there is also the cultural angle. The fact she’s born out of wedlock to a foreign father who left before she was born will not sit well with most Chinese people. Family, marriage, and child birth is very serious business in China. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of disdains are for the father that is projected onto her and her mother.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 10:27 am ¶

11. Lyonside wrote:

    >And get this: Some times neither parent is white and Black Americans have fair complexion and light eyes. i.e. Vanessa Williams and Prince the singer. Neither of the former persons parent is white.

    Well, to be fair, Gracey, that happens because of mixed ancestry (multigenerational mixing) somewhere along the line, not coming from nowhere in the gene pool.

    Most African-Americans (and everyone in the African diaspora) have mixed ancestry to varying degrees, whether that’s Native Indigenous, Asian, European, or an admixture of any/all of the above.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 11:10 am ¶

12. aimerrouge wrote:

    Is it wrong to correctly identify one’s background?

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 11:44 am ¶

13. atlasien wrote:

    I have such mixed emotions about this! I’m glad she attracted positive attention by appearing on that show. It was a brave move, and a step in the right direction. And then, I’m horrified, but not particularly surprised, by the xenophobic/racist attacks on her.

    I saw this story on another site and the comments saddened me… a lot of comments with the gist that her case showed that all Chinese hated black people so much that black people shouldn’t trust any Chinese, ever. I understand the anger but not the conclusion.

    It’s a positive sign that she did as well as she did in the contest. I’ve heard stories that in places like Korea and Vietnam, black Amerasian children were often physically assaulted on sight, and led horrifically miserable lives. Things have improved dramatically in the last several decades in Asian countries… and hopefully they will continue to keep improving.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 11:57 am ¶

14. Medusa wrote:

    aimerrouge-
    No, it’s not. The fact that people are calling her racist for saying her father was not African is ridiculous. I mean, as someone who actually is African, I’m not even remotely offended by that, because…I mean…she isn’t African! She doesn’t even identify herself as being American, because, I mean…she isn’t really. Culturally, she’s Chinese. She’s a Chinese person of mixed heritage.

    I lived in Shanghai for a while, and the racism I received was one thing, but at least I could take solace in the fact that I’m a foreigner. She is a Chinese woman, raised in China, doesn’t know anything about her American side and that is the kind of treatment she receives. I can’t even imagine that.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 12:16 pm ¶

15. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Jess -

    Your argument hinges on the idea that China and other historically “closed” nations did not absorb any prejudices from the wider world in the subsequent years, particularly with our military flexing and pop culture exports.

    Go to the ChinaSMACK site and read the comments translated. They did not revolve around class, or being a peasant, or even more nebulous ideas about looking low class, or unsophisticated.

    The comments focused on her mother’s “horniness,” the fact that black women in America are single parents which is why Jing’s mother was abandoned, comparisons of Lou Jing and Barack Obama, comparisons between “good” biracial mixes and “bad” ones.

    No, China does not have the same racial history as the United States and it would be foolish to try to insert our perspectives over this narrative (though, to some extent, we had to in order to present the problem.)

    However, oppression and discrimination manifests in similar ways around the globe. And it would also be foolish not to recognize that dynamic as well.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 12:53 pm ¶

16. dustyasymptotes wrote:

    Latoya,

    In the interview that Lou Jing did with Netease (video with translated transcript here: http://www.chinahush.com/2009/09/15/netease-interview-with-shanghai-black-girl-lou-jing/ ), she is very adamant about not having made that four point announcement, and feels that it was maliciously written to stir up trouble. (”I think there wasn’t any racial discrimination, until he wrote the article and caused it.”)

    While it’s possible that Lou Jing is trying to reduce the amount of hate directed at her by minimizing the situation, I think it’s important to take what she is actually saying into account, and I would appreciated it if you could update the post.
    —
    To further elaborate the point about racial discrimination in China without a history of race-based slavery – whether it existed or not in the ‘native history’ of China, cultural and economic white supremacy has been a chief export of the West to the rest of the world since the advent of Colonialism. Such ideas are easily internalized, where it can further entrench existing systems of oppression.

    Mod Note - Will update. – LDP

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 1:41 pm ¶

17. Erika wrote:

    I’ve heard a few sympathetic people say “she should just move overseas!” — but she is SHANGHAINESE. She is 100% Chinese, and her real home is in the US. That type of sentiment seems to subtly imply that she’s not *really* Chinese because she’s half black.

    The “she’s so beautiful/mixed people are so pretty”-type comments bother me as well. -_-

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 1:49 pm ¶

18. Jess wrote:

    Latoya —

    I am not discounting that the Chinese people (or Japanese, or anyone else) can’t absorb prejudices from the wider world. But I am saying that the roots of this thing go deeper than American influence, or it wouldn’t be so virulent, frankly.

    Why? Because despite the huge amount of pop culture (and culture generally) we export, it doesn’t erase thousands of years of culture that the Chinese built on their own — with all the prejudices and ethnocentrism that goes with that.

    I’d argue that some of the attitudes that bleed into our own exports might reinforce pre-existing stereotypes, which might have completely different origins and histories than ours. But if the US never sent a movie or album to China — which was basically the case until recently — the attitudes would be similar.

    The fact that Jing’s dad is black (American) might give a new vocabulary to some old ideas — I would bet Barack Obama’s election brought up a lot of things in many countries they weren’t used to discussing at all viz. the US.

    (In fact, I saw this happen to a degree in Europe — it was like “hey, they are about to elect a black president! So what’s up with that? What does it mean?” A discussion that would have been rather moot before since there were few or no black candidates to begin with).

    To put it another way, the idea of dark-skinned people being inferior wouldn’t take root if there was nothing for it to take root in. Unless you buy that humans are somehow genetically wired to hate on people who are darker, you have to ask why any of the ideas you describe make any sense to a Chinese person at all. Either that or you’d have to accept the idea that people have no agency and American culture somehow magically makes people instantly racist, that everybody passively absorbs this stuff.

    Think of all the pop culture stuff from the US that doesn’t translate or catch on. PB & J sandwiches, for instance. I have yet to meet a person from outside the US who didn’t say “eeeewwww!”. And nobody except the Japanese in Asia seems to dig baseball much (tho the Koreans and Taiwanese are working on it).

    Most Chinese never even saw anything that could be remotely considered an American cultural product until very recently — you yourself are just old enough to remember a time when few Chinese heard of Chuck Berry.

    (I kid you not. Fox Butterfield did a funny chapter in his book on China, written in 1980 or so, and he goes through a list of people at the time who were very famous in Europe and the US with local colleagues. They were completely baffled a lot of the time. The same, of course, was true in reverse — China had a pop culture that was rather opaque to most Americans, even those in China).

    So I don’t buy that a cultural phenomenon, transposed from a place with cultural concepts that don’t even begin to make sense (since the context is so far removed) is going to have that big an effect after less than a generation.

    You also talk about code words a lot — I don’t think you’d say I was wrong if I said “welfare recipient” was often code for “black,” right? Isn’t it possible that the reverse is true, in a culture where our history of racism (at least the way we do it) doesn’t exist? That is, the talk of race is really about something else, similar but ultimately different?

    I just want to be careful of assuming that racism takes the same form or that the concepts necessarily work in China, just because they drive cars, watch TV and use the Internet as they do in the US, you know? I am wary when I see what amounts to a (relative to the whole population) small elite that likely, for instance, has some familiarity with English, and is relatively well educated, using vocabulary that seems almost unnatural, as though it were transposed wholesale. Of course, I can’t really tell, as I don’t speak or read Chinese, but something seems off to me.

    @altasien —
    Your point about mixed AA kids and Vietnamese is well taken. One other reason they were mistreated (as were half-white kids) was because they were a living symbol of the occupation by the French and US. Talk about a double whammy of hurt.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 3:21 pm ¶

19. AJ wrote:

    #17 While being somewhat bothered by exotification of mixed-race folks, I still maintain that exotification is a first step to mainstream acceptance. It’d be nice if we could get the mainstream part without the middle step, but I’m not confident that it could happen in most places.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 4:43 pm ¶

20. Danny wrote:

    I was wondering how long it will take for raciailicious to mention this issue. I also read the many questionable comments, both in English and Chinese on many blogs/forums.

    Personally, I’m not fond of those comments too, whether it’s due to skin color, Luo Jing having African-American heritage or all those haters out there who will use anything to bash China/all Chinese.

    I read the script and after reflecting upon it, I have to agree largely with Jess and Latoya. It will be hard to make compare/contrasts with race in the States (it won’t make sense in certain regards) but we can not ignore the influence other parts of the world has in East Asia. Then there’s also the fact that the prevalent attitudes of ignorance and “I don’t care” insensitivity exist in all societies.

    Luo Jing is Chinese in every sense of the word. I think many people (in China as well) still have a hard time trying to understand that being Chinese is based on relationships not necessary by physical looks or whatever academic and popular definition(s) of demographics. Quite individualistic in many aspects and family/village ancestory which can go beyond blood relations and matters more than what the group terminologies we have in the West.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 5:11 pm ¶

21. Danny wrote:

    Out of respect for the realists, idealists and people who wish for a “color-blind” society;

    Based on the information available, Luo Jing has a good relationship with her mother, close friends who can pretty much express freely and confidence to just try out things in life and pursue goals. That’s all that matters.

    Other than individual dreams or social-minded agendas, this is what most people in China, most human beings in the world care about so don’t let the internet/media fool the minds in looking at the world with a narrow scope.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 6:00 pm ¶

22. brenstar wrote:

    I heard the reason why some Chinese in China dislike Blacks (Americans) is because of how they’re portrayed in the media. I heard that the media usually makes them look like gangsters or criminals (much like how American media does too).

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 8:13 pm ¶

23. Jha wrote:

    I’m so glad to see a post about Lou Jing here! I wrote about an angle of the commentary she’s receiving which is bothering me, which really seems to bank on her illegitimacy.

    The racism is levelled at her is horrific, but sadly unsurprising. The assumption that China has no history of racism therefore the racists can’t possibly be racist, is kind totally off. At ChinaHush, there are comments from Americans, warning China about the “black plague”. It’s awful.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 8:21 pm ¶

24. Joy wrote:

    She’s beautiful (not because she’s mixed, don’t worry Erika, LOL). Could be another reason for the haters. Just goes to show that racism isn’t a problem confined to one country or culture.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 9:01 pm ¶

25. m. wrote:

    Forgive me if I’m being ignorant, I’m not Chinese and know very little about Shanghainese culture/media/society, but…

    ..upon reading that entire interview and some other articles, I am left confused (and grossed out by the racist comments)! How could she not attribute the racism she is facing to her being mixed, not a “bad host” or just peoples’ senses of humor? I don’t understand why it seems to be impossible for her to call it like it is. The fact that she doesn’t say, “Yes, that is a racist/’racial’ comment,” or whatever leaves me thinking she is either oblivious or scared. People say she is sheltered, but it’s *her* skin color and *her* parents’ backgrounds that are getting talked about. Is she in denial of being Black because those around her make it out to be a bad thing? Is she hoping that by not talking about it it’ll draw less attention to her? (Good luck.) Mixed race Asians in the future are just going to have to keep bearing the brunt of these cutesy (sickening) little nicknames and comments from those who aren’t mixed, she could at least let people know that they are being disrespectful with their gross-ass behavior and intrusive questions. It’s not like she has to forsake being Chinese, identifying as culturally Chinese all the way, in order to admit that YES – she is, indeed, different. And NO, that is NOT a bad thing!

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 9:26 pm ¶

26. Jay wrote:

    Would the reactions have been even worse if he was African?

    I believe so, yes, because on top of the race problem there’s a perceived class problem. I believe a lot of Africans in China are currently migrant workers so it would be a perceived class issue.

    Beijing, or Taiwan or Hongkong, or smaller cities, would give her and people like her a much harder time – in most circles at least.

    Not that I don’t agree with you on this point, Shanghai Lisa, but really Beijing, Taiwan and Hong Kong are also cities of Chinese immigrants – my parents were part of the 70s immigrant wave to Hong Kong. Well, Taiwan isn’t a city but you get the point.

    I think it has more to do with “international port” status more. While Hong Kong is also an international port there’s more segregation.

    It appalls me that internet stupidity still rages on, and sadly, it seems like everybody still has a lot to learn about socialization.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 9:32 pm ¶

27. Logan wrote:

    I would also like to point out that China did have a history, in a sense, of slavery, colonialism, and racism, though nothing as blatantly overt as skin tone. I’m primarily an Ancient Chinese history guy, specifically the Three Kingdoms era, and while not as institutionalized as American Slavery, you can read in between the lines on how many foreign tribes suffered at the hands of the Chinese government, and how a prevailing opinion to keep said tribes pacified was to massacre them into submission. Additionally, one can look at the Chinese occupations of Vietnam and Korea (which I have in an overview) and see the occupations treated as such that there were numerous rebellions throughout the years by the Koreans and Vietnamese (and to further drive home this point: A female general named I believe Trieu Thi Trinh, who for a few months got the fragments of the Han Dynasty to leave Vietnam before they came back, is a national hero, to the point of her name being used as a rallying point in the efforts of Vietnam to get the French out of their country in the 1950s/60s).

    That certainly isn’t to say that the US influence hasn’t been felt and that US stereotypes haven’t penetrated their culture, but I would consider that a relatively minor influence considering the literally thousands of years of history prior where the Chinese were not that tolerant of others.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 10:30 pm ¶

28. 9jah wrote:

    @ Jess –

    I tend to think that the peasant narrative regarding color biases tends to simplfy the issue quite a bit because it ignores the fact that in these communities there has always existed genetically darker-skinned populations who are indigenous or migrated to these communities. Not everyone in these communities are peasants or farmers so what would explain bias towards such a group? Consider, for example, India where a majority of the population is darker skinned.

    That’s why using Africa as the frame of reference does not work because Africans aren’t the only dark skinned population in the world. Asians did not have to be in contact with Africans to develop skin color prejudices – they had their own dark-skinned populations to project cultural biases. So it may not be a “racism” issue dealing with wanting to be white or disliking blacks, but it is nonetheless an “ism” issue that goes beyond simple class politics.

    Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 10:55 pm ¶

29. Danny wrote:

    Hi m.

    I think it might be worth remembering that as it is with any article, we are viewing this information through the eyes and ears of someone else. It is going to be confusing, even if you were to straight out ask the person him/herself about their story.

    Your comment reminded me a bit about the Obama interviews and why isn’t he also calling out racism or any “isn” as is. Of course, there’s a lot of differences but then there is a tiny similarity. Then there’s also maybe that is how she really feels who knows.

    It’s not just in East Asia but in a lot of places outside the US, unless its’ very obvious-intended to hurt, many people out there are that “blunt” about talking about other people’s appearences and the reactions may be slightly different depending on the people involved in such conversations.

    Hi Logan,

    I’m not a formal student but also a history buff myself. Everything you say is quite true but then in some ways a bit more complex. I think you also know that “Chinese-ness” was/is quite a fluid term and many different tribes/clans that were absorbed eventually became part of a bigger group. In a sense, many people that were “intolerant” of the other different groups overtime became related. Well, it is a little bit complicated because I also read where it was only recently where many people (within this larger Han group although that too is a fluid/complex term too) in China saw themselves as one people.

    Besides history there’s also personal background I have relating to how these places such as Vietnam and Korea majority population “complex” relations with their “Chinese” minorities as well. Some of the relations have little to do with the authorities of the times while sometimes they do.

    I’m aware of the ethno-centrism prevalent in East Asia and how it’s much easier for those who are physically much different to stand out. However, as it is when dealing with any other non-American society, it’s really not going to help a lot if people keep on interpreting demographic relations with experiences in the US. Surely there’s a lot we could learn and applied from race relations in the States, but I think it might work better if our translation was more directly related.

    For example, race may be thought as differently in other places, but then most people will understand that hurting people based on any physical differences is not good in general. When you go straight to the heart of the matter, you target the “foundation” sort of speak and can gradually be able to deal with the complicated matters tied into them like religion or history. Sometimes people will use those topics as an excuse for bigotry/ignorance but then when we deal with the core reason of why they exist, there will be little defense for such questionable attitudes.

    Sorry for the extremly long post but I can’t help thinking about this case expecially after reading so many articles on racialicious for some time.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 12:39 am ¶

30. Danny wrote:

    Sorry I need to make this mention. Continuing from the previous comment.

    Regarding the American media influences (and American expats) in the world. While their attitudes do have some impact in the world and is heavily based with experiences in the US, we will still have to work hard on translating the problems. For example, the black-face or the “n-word” controversy. From whatever angle we look at, the reactions produce are significanly different with Americans than non-Americans, generally speaking. We can mentally drill or spoon-feed why this is wrong with the societies around the world. Some of course will understand but understand why it won’t be a large impact on other societies.

    Again, much more work with translating and applying our experiences to the core of the matter.

    Heck, I even have this issue in the US living in both the Mid-west and Southern California.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 12:56 am ¶

31. Shauna wrote:

    What’s up with the picture? Did it accompany an article about how she has been discriminated against? Is she a model and this was a fashion shoot? It’s trying to make slavery parallels, correct?

    Also I had a friend who faced similar problems she was half Japanese-American, half-African-American and Japan is very homogenous so when she would visit there every year she would get a lot of stares. Its nearly impossible to truly eradicate discrimination without having a level of diversity.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 1:05 am ¶

32. Medusa wrote:

    @ Jay-erm…no, most of the Africans in China are either studying or doing business. That said, there is also a number (no clue, the percentage, but I met a lot) dealing drugs. While definitely in the minority, that certainly has become a stereotype of the African in Shanghai. At least for men. No one ever approached me to ask me for drugs. (Although I was approached by Chinese people who wanted to sell me drugs, but I’m not sure if that’s solely because I’m black, or that’s something they do to foreigners in general.)

    @ Jess- I agree with you on some points. The anti-African/black person vitriol would still exist without America having exported these ridiculous images, but that does play a huge role in the way we are perceived. I mean yes, they do look down on darker-skinned people because it’s perceived that they are farmers and therefore lower class (which in and of itself is problematic, because hello?? if people weren’t farming, you wouldn’t be eating). It’s detrimental to women especially, and I rarely saw intra-racial couples in China that were a darker-skinned woman with a lighter-skinned man, but the inverse wasn’t uncommon. Colorism is a world-wide problem.

    That said, people really like to take their cues from the media. I received some pretty vile treatment from people who seemd to buy into the black-women-as-jezebel idea that is exported in a lot of movies, as well as being treated as asexual/undesirable by people who bought into the idea of black-women-as-mammy/masculine/unsexual. (You really can’t win.)

    Anecdotal evidence-A white girl that I knew was talking to a Chinese guy at a club, and she declined to go home with him, to which he told her “[girl's name],I’ve seen American Pie.” Admittedly, he’s just one guy, but he saw a movie and just believed what he saw. He can’t be the only one who believed the idea from having seen a movie that white girls are “easy”, and therefore she shouldn’t be declining a one-night stand.

    Okay, I got a bit off-topic, but I was just trying to make the point that yes, racism in China would most likely still exist without the Western influence, but Hollywood and the media are doing an excellent job of promoting even more stereotypes that wouldn’t even have been in the Chinese cultural vernacular otherwise.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 8:25 am ¶

33. tj wrote:

    LMAO at mostly all these comments. Seriously, people, it’s called RACISM. Plain and actually, very simple. It’s funny that these so-called “AFRICANS” get on here and say, that they didn’t think something was racist, because……there are classes and lecture halls full of conversations on the internal racism of colonized Africans, so please, as if you are going to be the authority on racism.

    And secondly, the WORLD is full of Black people. People descended from Africans, in their recent ancestry. And people who are not. The Siddi of India, the Vanuatu people. indigenous Australians, etc. SO too bad you think that people have never seen MYSTERIOUS Black people. What ever.

    And lastly, it’s funny that people actually think that the discrimination of people of African descent solely plays out as colorism. It’s more than that. Black people don’t go in the sun and GET Black, and any person with a brain can tell, that the sun didn’t make them that way. They were born Black. And so, screw all that intersection with color and class, maybe for people who tan, but not for people who are born several shades DARKER than tan.

    And double LOL, for people who are wondering how “Black” people have “white” features, and “birracial” people are “so dark.” Hmm, let’s see, because biology doesn’t ask which title you will place on this person when they are born. It absolutely amazes me how many people think that African Americans, are 100% sub-Saharan African. Really? How dumb is that to believe? There is not an African American person alive, I would bet, that couldn’t tell you WHO, exactly in their ancestry is White or Native American. Yet at the same token, 90% of African slaves went to South and Central America, and you can’t find 100 people there to consider themselves or be accepted as solely “Black.” No, your eyes are deceiving you, it’s your definition.

    It’s called stereotypes, discrimination, bigotry, hateration, segregation, the desire for physical homogeny, fear the unknown, otherism, all of that.

    It’s racism.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 2:12 pm ¶

34. Danny wrote:

    Hi Tj,

    I do not think anyone here is denying this is a case of racism. There is nothing wrong with calling it was it is but then I don’t understand the need to laugh off the other comments. Actually, the entire meaning of your statement could have been said without belittling others.

    We are just discussing the topic and as everyone can see, there are statements that refute each other. There’s also the personal experiences and other knowledge which are useful in relating to this story.

    P.S. I don’t mind if the mods decide not to publish my comment.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 4:45 pm ¶

35. JC wrote:

    I feel pretty bad for her, but having lived in Chinese society and interacted with mixed kids both white and black, I’m not going to worry about her personally. Most Chinese people got their exposure to blacks via American TV/movies and personal interaction with Africans. As we all know how badly blacks are portrayed here, this is where they get their message. Africans are considered in kinder light. This kind of ignorance is something China really need to work on, but I do know this – her personal live sounds like other mixed kids I know. People who know her personally will love her and protect her like any other member of their group, may it be family or social groups. Any sort of racist rants will come from strangers via anonymous forums and other media – almost never to her face. The thing which might hurt her is ignorance, not hate. People will ask her offensive and dumb question thinking it’s OK. Apparently she can handle them well. Otherwise, more people will love her /admire her than hate her in real life. Chinese is naturally warm and caring toward people in their inner groups, so as long as she’s part of it, she’ll be fine. Same thing goes to actual full-blooded foreigner as well – if you’re part of a group, you’ll be accepted. This is why many mixed kids raised in Chinese and other Asian cultures tend to gravitate toward their Asian half. China maybe behind the times, but in Japan the half-Trinidadian/Japanese Thelma Aoyama is one of the most famous singer in Japan. As African/Chinese relation warms in the future (China is the largest trading partner of many African nations), we’ll see more of her kinds of mixed kids, and ignorance slowly go away.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 7:40 pm ¶

36. vera wrote:

    TJ
    It’s also ignorance of history – to your quote “And double LOL, for people who are wondering how “Black” people have “white” features, and “birracial” people are “so dark.”
    Just like all of a sudden some people were saying “Why is Obama considered black when he has a white mother”. Ever since Africans were brought to the New World, some were mixed with whites, but according to the “one drop” rule – invented by WHITES, they were considered black. But you know if Obama wasn’t president of the United States, I bet he would be considered a black man by the majority of those who are upset he considers HIMSELF “black”. These argument was never so pronounced until this man attained this position. I wonder if this issue was brought up when he was in Chicago?

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 8:34 pm ¶

37. PatrickInBeijing wrote:

    Interesting comments and article. In terms of the racist comments made about Lou Jing on the internet (at sites like China smack), it should be noted that Chinese people value politeness in public. But a certain number of them get on the net and love to throw insults (at each other, at everything). As disturbing as the racism directed towards Lou Jing is, it is not representative of the thought of Chinese people. With all of the anti-Chinese prejudice in the world, it is not surprising that some people are using this one incident to attack an entire nation.

    It sometimes seems to me that Americans think that being prejudiced against “China” and “Chinese” is acceptable, and this makes a lot of them happy because there is someone it is okay to hate.

    There is certainly racial prejudice here, and I am sorry that some folks have come to China and had to deal with it. But I know some Africans and African-Americans who have had different experiences (most of those I have met speak good Chinese, which certainly is part of the explanation).

    In terms of Lou Jing being called “Little Black” by her friends and this not bothering her, nicknames here tend to be very direct and descriptive, so it is not surprising. (People who barely know me remark on how fat I am. I have gotten used to it, it is factual, not an “attack”.) A fat person might very well be called Fatty. Here, it’s not the words, it is the intent.

    I have always thought that a lot of the prejudice here comes from American movies and the way POC are represented in them. For people who have not seen many non-Chinese face to face, their viewpoint has to come from somewhere.

    There is definitely prejudice against darker skin here. The standard definition of beautiful is tall, thin, and pale skinned. I often think the prejudice against short people is the greatest. (I have a lot of short friends.)

    But everyone is not prejudiced here, nor are all degrees of prejudice the same. It is interesting how quickly people lump all Chinese folks together, without considering that not doing so is what we should be about.

    Why do we believe media reports about Chinese folks, when we know the media is careless and/or terrible in its coverage of people in other countries (especially non white ones)?

    I am planning on using this topic for a class discussion. (I have done similar topics in the past.) I usually find that my students are a mixture of very thoughtful, completely ignorant, open minded, and close minded. The percentage of each usually surprises me.

    For a number of years, I have been doing “adoption” as a topic. Most of my students (a change from traditional thoughts) are open to the idea of adoption. When I ask about trans-national and trans-racial adoption, usually over half are open to the idea. More tend to balk when it comes to the idea of adopting a child who is differently abled.

    Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 8:38 pm ¶

38. PatrickInBeijing wrote:

    I need to apologize. I wrote “But I know some Africans and African-Americans who have had different experiences (most of those I have met speak good Chinese, which certainly is part of the explanation).”

    Rereading this, it looks like I am discounting or waving off people’s experience here with prejudice. THAT was not my intention. Nothing I am trying (however poorly) to say is meant to suggest that people who are the victim of prejudice are in any way to blame.

    I was thinking about people I know who have positive experiences here, and no matter what their color, language skills make a difference. There is a certain amount of xenophobia as well as racial prejudice present, and speaking the language may help to overcome it. But that is not intended to imply that any prejudice anyone experiences is their fault, in any way.

    Sigh. I hope that is clearer. Luckily I can post this before the other one is approved, so hopefully this will help mitigate my offense. Sorry.

    Posted 08 Oct 2009 at 12:59 am ¶

39. Bruinbear wrote:

    Some comments mentioned this, so in response: Japan is most certainly not a homogeneous society, though public discourse leads us to treat it as such (often with troubling consequences). Trust me, as a grad student I’ve researched this a bit and it’s my #1 misconception pet peeve.

    Lou Jing is beautiful, by the way. Being of Chinese descent, words cannot express the frustration and disappointment I feel whenever I read/hear news like this.

    Posted 08 Oct 2009 at 5:50 am ¶

40. little mixed girl wrote:

    @ shuana-
    i believe that that picture was taken when she was still on the show.
    it has nothing to do with the translated articles posted or slavery/racism/discrimination at all.

    for the part about her father being american and not african, i’m not too surprised that that would be written.
    africa does not have a great image in asia, and at least in japan, you get people that laugh and twitter when they hear that someone is from somewhere in africa.

    africa is a place to be pitied.

    america has a stronger world standing, and by saying that her dad is from america it doesn’t totally seem like he was some starving, drug-dealing guy from nigeria or something “unpleasant” like that.

    i’m also not surprised that she wouldn’t speak out against people who have called her names.
    what good is that going to do her?
    if she says “i know why they stare. i know why they say those things. etc” people can find some way to empathize with her.

    @ bruin bear,
    in what ways do you think that japan is not a homogeneous society?
    i think that in japan there’s an emphasis on homogeneity. just like anywhere else there’s people with their unique personalities, but japan is very much about “us” and “them”, especially when it comes to possible understanding of japan…

    Posted 08 Oct 2009 at 9:43 am ¶

41. Megan wrote:

    Just wondering if someone could tell me if being called the nickname “little black” is akin to being called “negrita” (little black girl) in Spanish? When I first went to Costa Rica and before I knew Spanish I was completely pissed and totally offended when people called me that, esp my host mom! Lol Maybe the word for “little Black girl” in Chinese is similar to this? Anyone who knows Spanish and Chinese care to confirm? In spanish if you add an “ita” to anything its a cutesy type of nickname and not negative at all. For example “gordita” translates to English as pretty little fatty. Not so cute in English right? But totally acceptable in Spanish.

    Posted 08 Oct 2009 at 7:59 pm ¶

42. A. wrote:

    Bruinbear –

    I’m sorry, what research WERE you doing? Japanese isn’t 100% homogeneous, but the number of Asians to non-Asians is very much so still in the 90 percents.

    I can have my roommate comment about all of that, but Japan is INSANELY homogeneous. What you’re saying is even more dangerous because that almost ignores the ‘gaijin’ comments and other sorts of discrimination that non-Japanese face.

    As far as Lou Jing goes, I have to get my bit of shallow out, but she’s freaking gorgeous.

    Posted 09 Oct 2009 at 12:38 am ¶

43. Logan wrote:

    Megan: I think that is the way it is in China, but I’m not 100% sure. I remember in the movie Red Cliffs, that one of the main characters was nicknamed Piggy as a youngster because of him eating everything, and I remember my landlord when talking to her telling me about how nicknames were based off of silly things. I could very easily see nicknames being based off of Lou Jing’s skintone.

    Posted 09 Oct 2009 at 4:49 am ¶

44. little mixed girl wrote:

    @megan:

    i think that in east asia, there are a lot of appearance based nicknames.
    so, it might have the same spanish connotation? in that it isn’t always a malice term…

    Posted 09 Oct 2009 at 10:44 am ¶

45. Yu Sijie wrote:

    @ Megan
    Nicknames in China normally use the word “little” as a term of endearment. Sometimes it is followed by the person’s name such as 小王 (little wang), but can also be followed by characters serving as nouns or adjectives, such as 小黑 (little black), or, as another commenter mentioned 小胖子(little fatty). My Spanish is pretty rusty, but I think you’re right that the “-ita” suffix is very similar.

    In response to Erika’s comment that
    ‘The “she’s so beautiful/mixed people are so pretty”-type comments bother me as well.’

    Putting aside the problem of defining separate races and therefore who is or isn’t “mixed,” I think this is an interesting concept.

    What is intended by these comments and how are they perceived by individuals who define themselves as “mixed” race? These are my thoughts about possible reasons and how such comments might be interpretted:

    Reasons for commenting
    1) Honesty – Lou Jing is beautiful
    2) Support – Lou Jing is worthy of our support (Perhaps in response to racism that seems to stem from physical appearance)
    3) Self-image – Positive comments about Lou Jing help me to convince myself that I’m not racist (even though I personally don’t find her attractive, I understand how others do)

    Interpretations
    1) Commentor is being honest and is expressing support for Lou Jing as a person worthy of love and respect like all of us
    2) Commentor thinks that Lou Jing is a “spectacle” to be observed
    3) Commentor feels that Lou Jing’s worth lies only in her ascetic beauty (discounting her personality, skills, intelligence, and other characteristics)
    4) Commentor misunderstands racism as based in physical appearance because that is normally the way in which we distinguish racial groups – the commentor is thus ignorant of the true impact of racism
    5) Commentor is simply trying to be an “activist” and voice support to distance herself from the racists and aleviate her own sense of guilt

    This ties in with opposition to the term “exotic” being used to describe those whom we are unfamiliar with. While it seems natural for us to be interested in what we define as “different” or perhaps “unknown,” how others perceive our comments are ultimately as (or more) important as their intended meaning.

    Posted 10 Oct 2009 at 5:05 am ¶

46. Yu Sijie wrote:

    How has noone commented on the fact that the Chinese show made her RAP her introduction??? Or that the male host said that he originally thought the photo (posted above) was of Halle Berry. While the Halle Berry comment was probably meant to be a compliment, it may have had the unintended effect of “otherizing” her – making her seem like an outsider because she looks more like a foreigner.

    Ah yes, watching the clip of “Go! Oriental Girl” brought back memories from a year ago when I was in a nationally televised Chinese speech competition.

    During my (extremely) brief time on Chinese TV, I found that playing to stereotypes seemed common. The Israeli contestant was horrified that they made him act as a shopkeeper, while the Irish contestant was made to look silly/foolish. Contestants were also encouraged to reinforce stereotypes during the competition, possibly (in my opinion) because it would be received more favorably by the public.

    I don’t think that there is a strong hatred of different racial backgrounds in China, but simply an unsophisticated idea of what physically dissimilar foreigners are like (and relatively deeper understanding of white Americans and Europeans). In this kind of environment, it’s easy to create simplified labels that we interpret as racism.

    Posted 10 Oct 2009 at 5:40 am ¶

47. Propetik Soul wrote:

    This issue reminds me of my trip to South Korea for 10 days this past August with a group of Americans from different ethnic backgrounds.

    I am African American.

    I was impressed with Seoul but I also did research on their reactions to the outside world. Some of the comments here sound similar to what I learned and experienced.

    1. Views on race are affected by the relationships countries have with other countries. The U.S. has a base in South Korea and many Koreans have a cool reaction to that. As a result, I was viewed with some suspicion as a foreigner.

    2. American pop culture is everywhere there and South Korean pop culture imitates it. The result is that young South Koreans tend to be more open while older South Koreans are not. But American pop culture also reinforces racial stereotypes.

    3. This pure blood homogeneity thing that South Korean culture promotes (along with some other Asian countries) affects their views on race.

    One difference: South Korea seems ahead of China in dealing openly with race issues. Technology and globalization is giving them access to new ideas but their culture is still playing catch-up.

    Hines Ward, an American of African Americana and South Korean descent visited the South Korea and was welcomed like a rock star. He plays for Superbowl champs Pittsburgh Steelers. he started an organization for Amerasian children because even in South Korea, their prospects are dim especially if they have African ancestry.

    I am still not sure if they welcomed him because of his socio-economic status (wealthy American) or because South Korean culture is changing….or both.

    I do know that I got a few stares but I was mostly in the city where foreigners arent unusual.

    Thanks for highlighting this situation.

    Posted 10 Oct 2009 at 11:38 am ¶

48. nicktay wrote:

    Racism is everywhere! My dad is a Malaysian Chinese married my mum, an Indian from India, a thus I am of mixed heritage. All through my life, I have been called names by my own family members because I inherited my mothers dark skin, rather than my fathers, which my other siblings got. I have learned though, its all about education and exposure. When people are not thought to recognize that the colour of ones skin does not determine the persons character, they will live forever in ignorance and treat others based on what their parents/family/culture has thought them.

    Posted 12 Oct 2009 at 6:32 am ¶

49. CVT wrote:

    I just moved out to Shanghai, and as a mixed-race (Chinese/white) guy, none of it surprises me. Even my mix (which is “better” in the Chinese racial hierarchy) was a big deal back in the day . . .

    And her specification of her father being “American” may just be an educational-type thing, since “American” usually means “white” out here.

    (I literally just wrote a whole post on that here: http://www.choptensils.wordpress.com)

    Posted 12 Oct 2009 at 10:29 pm ¶

50. PatrickInBeijing wrote:

    An update, I used the topic in some classes this week. Most of my students had not heard about it (most young people use the Internet to 1) play computer games (cursed things!) 2) chat with old friends 3) download music and movies 4) buy books and stuff.

    So, this was likely not a “big” issue discussed across China and paid attention to by everyone. (I had not noticed it on the Chinese web sites I go to (I stay away from so-called “ex-pat” sites, since most of them don’t, ahem, hmmm, impress me).

    A few students think she cannot be Chinese (some because her father isn’t Chinese, saying that nationality should follow your father), a few think it’s great and she is wonderful (and beautiful), and a great number have never given the idea much thought, and are more concerned with issues that affect them personally.

    NOT a representative sample.

    I thought more about comments made in various places about how racist and xenophobic the Chinese people are. Certainly the latter is not true. I have travelled over quite a bit of the country, and rather than seeing xenophobia, I am more likely to find people want to take a picture with me because they are excited to see a foreigner. (Some people don’t like this, but it is hardly xenophobia!).

    Racism is trickier, everything I hear and see is based on individual stories, and I hear and see many different reactions. It is certainly present (like everywhere), but the questions are 1) it’s prevalence 2) it’s degree 3) it’s causes and cures. I am disturbed by those who insist that ALL of China and Chinese are racist. Would love to know their sources for this.

    (Since a lot is anecdotal, I remember watching a Chinese TV show a few years ago, it was one of those shows where people come on to talk about personal relationship problems. A very earnest young African-American (speaking fluent Chinese (jealous! me!) was pleading with the audience. He was teaching in China and had a young student who had no father present. He had fallen in love with the young man and wished to become his father. He was pleading his case before the audience hoping they would help convince the mother that it was okay to marry him.

    (His style of doing so indicated a pretty decent understanding of Chinese culture.)

    The audience, mostly older people (I know nothing else about him) was slowly won over during his half hour of fame, and began to root for them to get married. The mother agreed, and the couple embraced and went off to wed (with son in tow).

    One story. But that is all I ever hear, are individual stories, some good, some bad. It is dangerous to generalize from such stories, and really, the Western media coverage of China is (IMHO) incredibly biased.

    Posted 13 Oct 2009 at 1:23 am ¶

51. Charles Liu wrote:

    Latoya, do you realize the few cherry-picked by Chinasmack et al, are not representative of the opinions in the Chinese blogsphere? The fact they are pretty much one-sided should have prompted you to question this absolute.

    I went on Baidu and searched the girl’s name, and there are an entire category of responses ommitted:

    “洪晃：我们凭什么歧视混血女孩娄婧” – “Hong Guan: what right do we have to discriminate against mixed blood girl Lou Jin”

    “娄婧没有错，对娄母也应多宽容” – “Lou Jing is blameless, her mother deserves understanding too”

    “看中国男人怎对娄婧母女发邪火” – “observing Chinese male-chovanism againt Lou mother-daughter”

    “娄婧的呼声感人肺腑” – “Lou Jing’s appeal [to find father] moved me to the core”

    “娄婧天使舞台证明自己和大家一样” – “Lou Jing’s stage presence proves she is the same as everyone”

    “并不是因为她有着奥斯卡影后上海“哈利贝瑞”的称号。而是娄婧切身的故事” – “not because she resembles Halle Barry, but because of her life story”

    “勿以肤色论英雄” – Shouldn’t judge by skin color

    ” “黑珍珠”娄婧证明自我” – “black pearl” Lou Jing proves self-worth

    “娄婧比模特儿更美” – Lou Jing is more beautiful than models

    “大家多谅解她吧” – people should cut her some slack

    “娄婧是个小天使，这与她的肤色无关” – Lou Jing is an angel, matters not what skin color

    “黑色只是普通的肤色” – Black is but a normal skin color

    “很佩服你的勇气”
    I admire your [Lou Jing's] courage

    “自认为一番高论的鸟语,首先让我感到你真丢我们炎黄子孙的脸”
    your self-righteous BS made me feel you’ve lost face for all Chinese

    “应该让我们所有的人值得同情”
    they deserve all our sympathy

    Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 11:40 pm ¶