Tuesday Nitpicking: Mixed Race People and the Language of Fractions

By Deputy Editor Thea Lim

The other day I was having a drink with a friend, when he began describing a woman he was interested in. “She’s half Japanese,” he said. “Half Japanese?” I said, “She doesn’t have another half?”

At this point my friends have gotten used to my annoying linguistic nitpicking, the subtle (and allegedly annoying) ways that I make clear my thoughts on certain words. When friends tell me someone is lame, I say, “What? They only have one leg?” Or when my students tell me their textbook is gay, I say, “Oh really? What’s its stance on same sex marriage?” Or when a dude tells me another dude is a pussy, I say, “But I thought you liked those?…”

Most of the time people easily grasp the point I’m trying to make and either stop using certain words around me, or defriend me on Facebook. But when I object to the description of mixed race folks as halves, quarters and eighths, people get too confused to be irritated.

Which makes sense to me. Because even though I’ve been mixed race for almost three decades, it only occurred to me recently that perhaps I don’t really like being called a half of anything.

Apart from the fact that hey, I’m a whole person, referring to my different ethnic heritages as fractions leads to some sort of existential apartheid. When I refer to myself (or others) as half this and half that, what I am implying (whatever my intentions) is that half my body, self and experience is Chinese, and half of my body, self and experience is White.

I’m implying that the halves of my body are separately Chinese and White, that if you cut me in half you could clearly see which parts were white, and which were POC. That’s clearly untrue, even if my right hand is way better with chopsticks than my left.

It’s not like I can hold my different ethnicities separate from each other. I’m not half and half, something on this side and something else on the other…I’m both. At the same time. There are no parts of my experience that are solely white, or solely Chinese. I don’t have one compartment for Chineseness in my brain and another compartment for Whiteness, living side by side and sometimes visiting but ultimately existing separately. Every single part of me is a 100% white/Chinese mash-up, all the time. There ain’t no separating these things from each other.

I’m sure you can find me 3459876 mixed race people who don’t care if they are referred to as sixteenths or 13%s. I’m sure there are mixed race people who are gonna read this and think: Whatevs. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. And that’s ok, I’m all for people describing themselves in whatever terms they like. But I’m saying that this mixed race person doesn’t like that terminology, because of what it implies about how we think of race in general.

Which is this: potentially we like to refer to people in halves, becuase even as the entire world is an inextricable, bloody mash-up of hundreds of different ethnic groups, we still like to imagine racial groups as separate, impenetrable, sanitised entities. Even while they are simultaneously existing in one human.

Many of the issues that plague the mixed race identity have to do with feelings of inadequacy and inauthenticity. Maybe some of that has to do with the fact that people are always telling us (and we often tell ourselves) that we are half of things. I mean, that has to have some kind of impact somewhere.

So in the interests of the boiling pot, or just simply the sanity of this one mixed race person, if you know someone who is mixed race, say (for eg) “Carmen is Chinese and Dutch,” not “Carmen is half Chinese and half Dutch.”  Because the first means exactly the same thing as the second, it’s just that the first is being much more realistic.

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Comments

  1. Jessica Varin wrote:

    My family is Chinese and French. I am not half of anything- I’m a whole person.

  2. atlasien wrote:

    About ten years ago I stopped saying I was “half Japanese.” Instead, I started saying, “I’m half Japanese and half white”. I noticed it really freaked white people out… some of them have even quizzed me afterwards, “why did you have to put it that way?” I occasionally even catch a quick little wincing head motion when I get to the part “half white”.

    I made the change because I wanted to say who I was with more integrity, and not fall into line with the belief that whiteness is natural and invisible.

    I agree 100% (hah) with the argument of this post. Unfortunately, I can’t see myself doing this in real life in any sort of workplace or semi-professional environment. When I say “half Japanese and half white” I’m already pushing the boundaries. If I went a step further and actually refused to give percentages people would get even more pissed off.

    It’s a depressing compromise.

  3. Mieko wrote:

    Agreed. So from now on, if someone asks, I’m going with: Japanese,Black,Mexican,French,German,Spanish,Cherokee chick. Fractions don’t matter. If you wanna get down to who’s what and where, say: My grandma was this, or my grandpa’s grandpa was that.

    I never was a fractions girl as a child. I figured race and ethnicity was the same as what color hair or skin you had, or whether or not your parents put salt in their food- race was born with, and so not a big deal. Culture was like a family thing, so someone could learn parts and respect the parts they couldn’t learn- also no big deal.

    It was only when people started questioning my authenticity that I began “fractioning” myself. It gave me a pedigree, some proof that I belonged. Language isn’t the answer to identity issues, but it implies a shift in the way we view ourselves. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

  4. Brooke wrote:

    My cousin and her husband have been raising their mixed race children telling them, “You come from both of us, therefore you’re both black and white.” Their oldest is just now getting to the age where he can comprehend more complex ideas and likely they have a lot of more indepth conversations ahead of them, but I always liked how they used the word “both” instead of separating it out.

  5. Thea Lim wrote:

    @atlasien

    I was going to mention this but decided to leave it out in the interests of brevity: it really bothers me when I someone identified as “half-(some POC ethnicity)” period, with no other half indicated. This kind of language almost always refers to mixed race people who are half white half POC, and it implies that the only kind of mix you can be is half-white and half something else…and because of the lack of mention of whiteness, it implies that the only race you have is your non-white race. Because white people don’t have a race. Nah.

    Though I would strongly encourage you to try identifying yourself without the percentages…if only to play a sly joke :)

  6. Shelby wrote:

    Love it!
    I remember seeing a t-shirt or something awhile back that said something like: “100% white, 100% Black, 100% Indian” And I fell in love with it. Everyone is 100% who they are all the time.
    Which is why I get a little confused when people argue that Barack Obama is biracial *not* Black. I never thought of the two as mutually exclusive. Of course he’s biracial. He’s also white. And Black. I guess I just don’t really understand the whole concept of “mixed-race-ness” being its own separate category. Yeah, identifying as mixed is an important part of who you are. But my multiracial identity doesn’t *negate* my mono-racial identity(-ies). They exist together.

    Anyway…great post! :)

  7. Fatemeh wrote:

    Great post, Thea! atlasien’s refusal to let whiteness be invisible is interesting and important–I will sometimes identify my parents instead of myself, i.e, “My father is Iranian and my mother is white.” Even though Iranian is a nationality and not really an ethnicity, I don’t want to use American as a synonym for “white”, and so there are a million different ways that identification can go.

  8. Mo wrote:

    This is one of the first posts on here about a mixed identity that I didn’t feel made the assumption that mixed people = white. From a mixed person that is not white… thank you. :)

  9. atlasien wrote:

    @Thea: I do that with people I’m comfortable with, or if there’s no advantage to me in not hurting their feelings. But otherwise, I can’t risk making people too angry.

    The thing that really sends me over the edge is when I politely comply with someone’s obtrusive request to detail my exact genetic background… and then they refuse to believe me, or imply that I’m lying. They’ll actually argue with me. “But you look much more Asian than that!” ARRRGGGHH!

  10. inkst wrote:

    You are preaching to the choir! Thanks for this post!! I have gone through many different phases of breaking down my racial make-up. When I was a kid, I liked to parse out the details and say things like: half Indian, quarter Italian, eighth Scottish, eighth Euro-grab-bag (I used to have that list memorized). I thought it was cool that I could list all these different heritages, but always wanted to make the large Indian portion very clear to people. i think it was a way to claim some sort of ownership over my different appearance in my very small, white hometown.

    Now, I don’t like the percentages for the same reasons you state here, and I really like what Shelby said: “my multiracial identity doesn’t *negate* my mono-racial identity(-ies). They exist together.” I. Hear. That. Other people try to negate it for me in lots of different ways, but for me, it’s just me.

  11. Ryan Barrett wrote:

    How about just calling yourself “interracial”?

  12. inkst wrote:

    @Fatemeh, I do the mother/father thing too. Have for a long time and still do it often. Never thought much about why I choose to say it like that sometimes. Interesting…

  13. Thea Lim wrote:

    @Mo

    Glad to hear that! We are trying to get better about not leaving out our mixed race brethren who don’t have white parentage. :)

  14. Jennifer wrote:

    Thank you for writing this…being people of mixed ethnicities I have often been asked to split myself into factions. I have also been challenged at the ethnic descriptions I choose to use, “Puerto Rican and Hawaiian or Mixed Tropical Fruit” as not being accurate enough. That’s usually when I get snarky and say, well my toes are Hawaiian but my elbow and left ear are Puerto Rican…

    Forget the fact that identifying with either nationality automatically means that you are also other things because both are islands that have been occupied and “conquered” at various points in history and honestly you couldn’t say who is what anymore.

    I am a whole person, with beautiful influences from around the world. That’s enough for me and should be enough for anyone I tell it to…

  15. Ryan Barrett wrote:

    Or, better yet, just take out the percentages and say “I’m Chinese and White” – that says it all!

  16. Beth wrote:

    I know lots and lots of people find it problematic, but I like calling myself a “mutt”, because it suggests something new, but whole, made of disparate parts. It doesn’t take any of my heritage for granted (or as the *shudder* default), and while it linguistically erases them, it doesn’t subordinate any one of them to any other part of my heritage.

    I remember my mother sitting down and asking me what I wanted to be listed on the census form as. 1/8th was enough I could be this category, 1/16th wasn’t enough to be that. The list I had learned to rattle off to people who asked in the grocery store was apparently not enough, I had to pick one off the subset of the list with a big enough number. Talk about formative experiences.

    In common conversation I’ll used “various ” or “mixed” background instead, but inside I’m thinking of myself as a mutt so I don’t ever have to fill in a little oval of a subset list of my ancestors’ races in order to define me.

  17. inkst wrote:

    As I check back into this thread, I keep thinking, “me too! me too!” One of the many reasons I love Racialicious.

    Beth, I agree, people may have big problems with the “mutt” thing, but I have comfortably thought of and described myself that way too. I totally get what you mean about it not being a derogatory thing but almost an equalizer.

    Out of curiosity, when it comes to the ovals, would you rather check “mixed” “other” or go through a specific subset? I hate the ovals and change my mind every time I am confronted with them. I also don’t know what to put when it says “please specify” next to a bubble marked “mixed” or “multiracial.”

  18. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

    Fortunately, I can go with the term created by Jamaicans and Jamaican Americans: “Jamerican.” Which are nationalities but still…

    I think I should stop saying “I’m half Jamaican” though.

  19. GüeraLola wrote:

    ” Everyone is 100% who they are all the time.”
    That’s going to me my motto, I used the fraction thing because people were upset about my heritage but I noticed there seemed more please when I said” I’m half this and half that” I should have said I’m ——-. It’s sad, since I have a dual citizenship so technically I’m both, not half. I hate it, when people tell me I’m half ——— as if I’m not good enough.

  20. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Jamerican Muslimah

    I am often jealous of people who have words like Blaxican or Chindian or even Chican@…I am white and Chinese, and there is just no combo of those two words that sounds right. Which? Nope. Whinese? Eep. Chite? Uh, that sounds like something else.

  21. malted_tea wrote:

    Just putting it out there but this language exists for those who grew up in multifaith families.

  22. Amina wrote:

    When most people use “the halves” to describe people their not doing it to describe that person life experience or personality, they’re trying to describe what they look like to someone whose never seen them before.

    People should describe themselves however they choose to, when you’re of mixed race so many people already have ignorant preconceived notions about who and what you are. As long as you know that you’re proud and loving of every part of yourself you should refer to yourself as you choose to.

  23. Asuka wrote:

    I agree with atlasien. When I say I am half Japanese and half White, I feel that my peers (especially my Japanese peers) judge me by thinking “Well I am whole, I am better than you.” I feel that a lot. So now I just say I am Japanese and white, and that I am 100 percent both. Also, since I am a person of color in this society, my white side a lot of the time gets forgotten because I do not look white. It is also interesting getting the reactions from my white peers when they can’t pinpoint me to some ethnicity. I find it annoying. I feel I am more reluctant to tell white people my ethnicity because from my experiences, they all just overlook that I have white in me and just classify me as “Asian” (not Japanese specific). I just wish our society was not so driven on classifying people into groups sometimes.

  24. thesciencegirl wrote:

    I am also a mixed race person whose self-terminology has evolved over the years, and I don’t like to use percentages anymore either. I usually just say, “I’m black and white.” Although, I have decided lately that I will refuse to answer when perfect strangers question my ethnicity/race, which is sort of a freeing choice. :)

    One issue I have with the terminology, specifically as someone with white ancestry is that I don’t particularly like to describe myself as white, since I’m not “White” in the sense of having white-privilege (though I know that it’s used to mean European/Caucasian colloquially). So, sometimes I say black and Italian-American. I can identify as a person of mixed race and also talk about how my “blackness” affects me, but I can’t really talk about my “whiteness” because I don’t really have whiteness or the privileges that come with it.

    Like others here, I have occasionally described my parents’ races instead of applying a label to my own.

  25. jen* wrote:

    Ooh, Thea – you’re right. Those aren’t nice choices.

    Using percentages gets confusing sometimes – so I rarely ever used them. But I and most of my friends always said “black ‘n’ white”, “Korean ‘n’ white”, “black ‘n’ Korean”…without the halves.

    I could never refer to myself as a mutt, though. And wouldn’t like it if someone else referred to me that way. Say what you will, but the dog comparison gets no love from me.

  26. Pickly wrote:

    These are some somewhat strange comments to read, since I haven’t really heard the “fraction” language used day to day as more than a shorthand way of describing numbers of ancestors (So it’s more of a historical curiosity than a way to assume personality or such.) (Of course, this didn’t often relate to mixed race situations, so it does make sense that introducing race could throw reactions in a different direction than otherwise.)

    In Analogy terms, Ive always thought of mixing more in terms of something resembling mixing drinks, as an analogy (Where the drinks will completely merge, and the taste of the resulting liquid can go a number of different directions), as opposed to putting components together.

  27. Medusa wrote:

    Okay, I dig! I have made this cardinal sin when describing bi/multiracial people, but I did it more for the sake of accuracy than because I want to make them feel othered.

    I remember one year on American Idol there was a contestant who said “I’m a quarter Japanese.” That really, really struck me because it was like she was saying that whiteness was a foregone conclusion, but there was something else about her that made her different. And of course, being Japanese isn’t different for the millions of people who are…Japanese.

    There were a LOT of biracial kids at my int’l school when I was growing up, and I remember being in 6th grade and watching a special about them on television. I remember that one of the kids said he likes to describe himself as “double” rather than half, because he isn’t half a person on either side, but he has two complete ethnic backgrounds that he belongs to. What do you all think of people referring to themselves as “double” instead of “half”? Or is it the same, but with different terminology?

    Thea-
    Re: a compound word to describe your ethnicity-
    Eurasian, maybe?

  28. Pickly wrote:

    (Just to be clear, I do agree that a lot of the reactions people here are describing are pretty assholish things to do.)

  29. Asha wrote:

    I say “half-Indian, half-white” because people generally want to know why I look the way I do and they could care less about my cultural identity (although if they ask, I’ll tell them). I haven’t had anyone get uncomfortable when i saw “half-white”, but my (white) friends have gotten annoyed at me for classifying my family as the “white side” and the “indian side”

  30. al oof wrote:

    i try not to use fractions when discussing people’s ethnicities, and i understand what you mean about implying that your body is half one ethnicity and half another. but i don’t think that most people would think of it that way. i think the implied ‘i have a parent who is one ethnicity and one who is another’ or, in some situations, ‘i have one grandparent who is this ethnicity’ is understood.

    which doesn’t mean we should continue to discuss ethnicity quantitatively, but it’s something to keep in mind when you are discussing this with people who don’t understand why that isn’t a good way to talk about culture/ethnicity, because they will tell you ‘but i know that what it really means’.

  31. JL wrote:

    One way in which the “half” terminology can be useful, at least to me, is if I’m trying to connect with mixed folks who share that “half”, regardless of what else makes up their race and/or ethnicity.

    For instance, I belong to an online group for people of partial Jewish ancestry. It doesn’t matter what the rest of my or their ethnic background is – our common ground is that we’re ethnically mixed and some component of that mix is Jewish. The group’s name has “Half-Jewish” in the title. I do see problems with that name – it seems exclusionary towards people with one Jewish grandparent, or three Jewish grandparents, or whatever, who are supposed to be welcomed. I might prefer “Part-Jewish” or something similar (though I understand that it was named that because the founder wanted to use terminology that people would recognize). But I think it’s appropriate, in a context like that, to single out one part of your heritage.

    The thesis of this post makes sense to me in general, but I wanted to say that I could see limited contexts in which the terminology might serve some purpose.

  32. Martin Rawlings-Fein wrote:

    Thea, wow, what a profound hand up the backside of the head. I got tired of percentages to talk about my ethnic heritage, which is all over the map. I started calling myself an american mutt, but I get looks from people who see my blue eyes and blond hair and assume I am somehow co-opting others mixed identity. I think it is hard on all sides.

  33. Thea Lim wrote:

    @Medusa

    I don’t use Eurasian because where I grew up (Singapore) Eurasian referred to a specific ethnic group – peranakan or nyonya. Peranakan or Nyonya people are are all mixed (ie it’s not just an individual occurrence within one family where one parent is of one race and the other is of another) – sort of like being Burgher, Metis or Mestizo.

    I think I also don’t really like how much land Eurasian covers – Europe and Asia, that’s like a third of the world! So it seems too inspecific for me.

    My sister actually does use Eurasian though, from time to time, I guess in the way that others use hapa. I don’t use hapa because I don’t particularly identify with Asian American culture (being a Canadian and whatnot…).

  34. Thea Lim wrote:

    @All

    Thanks everyone for the convo! I actually hadn’t heard other mixed people express discomfort about the whole fractions thing, and I assumed that it was just a personal beef (as you can tell from the title of my post…). Glad to hear I am not on my own :)

  35. el capitan wrote:

    Since you are nitpicking you can’t be half white half Chinese since white is a color and Chinese a nationality you must be more rigorous in your own text… (just playing)… Anyway this is my 1st comment I appreciate the quality of contents and comments of the blog…

  36. Phrone wrote:

    I love this post! I’m mixed Latina and white, and I’ve had a hard time figuring out how to label myself. It always confuses people who aren’t mixed that my identity changes on the context. Sometimes I will say “mixed”, sometimes “Latina”, sometimes “white”, sometimes other things…because there are times where different elements of my racial mixup are more salient. But it really confuses other people.

    I’m going to try this terminology from now on. :D

  37. usha wrote:

    JL, I’m Jewish and I think the ‘half Jewish’ thing is to recognize people of Jewish descent that the Jewish world does not recognize as Jewish (paternal line), who are nonetheless, as my mom and Israel make the distinction, ‘Jewish enough for Hitler’.

    And I one of the reasons I like and use Hapa is because it’s ‘half white’. The rest is the implied part. I like to offer an innocently unhelpful response because it’s an inappropriate question from a stranger. And if people are going to ask rude questions, and are too embarrassed to say what they really mean, I don’t like to help them out.
    It never seems annoying from other Hapas, though. I always feel like we have a shared experience no matter what the racial ’spread’, so I don’t mind the conversation.

  38. MoonCat wrote:

    @ atlasien

    really? someone said that? how do you respond without losing it? i’m shocked at the rudeness of people.

  39. xey wrote:

    @Thea Lim

    I know a girl who has a Chinese father and a white mother, and she refers to herself as “the wasian sensation.” If that helps. :)
    ~~~
    What really bothers me is when people say things like (and, yes, I have heard it quite a bit), “I’m half black, half white, and half Hispanic.” Wow. 3 halves? Oh, really?

  40. Jennifer dG wrote:

    Here in the Bay Area hapa is pretty well understood by younger people. My grandfather, with his Filipino accent, would say “hapa Pilipino,” so it makes sense to me.

    I use it sometimes, but only with people who seem like they’d hip to the terminology. Other times, when I say I am Filipino and Hispanic, the immediate follow-up question is along the lines of “Was your father or mother Filipino?” And the answer is “neither,” so it gets complicated. I just wonder — what is it like not to be quizzed about your ancestry by the curious? Most of the time, I don’t mind, but it’s an experience a lot people don’t have, I imagine.

    What’s funny to me is that my family, so accustomed to these questions, peppered my husband with the same kind. The answer is “Well, you know when the Normans invaded England in 1066…? Yeah. That’s me.”

  41. elisapiper wrote:

    I think the key point is self-identification. (How rude that people would question you – no matter how you frame it.)

    And for us white Americans with “who knows?” backgrounds … sometimes that % is just a way to capture a shred of ancestry or culture. For me, I can trace back to one great-grandfather to get to 1/16 Italian. Even though I’ve got a lot more Irish ancestors, I like the Italian connection better.

  42. Britta wrote:

    Interesting post. I actually can identify, though from a slightly different perspective. I get people demanding a full pedigree from me (in percentages) for precisely the opposite reason–because I am not mixed race and fit certain visible stereotypes of N. European racial purity. My ancestry includes several similar/related ethnic groups in N. Europe, which people insist on ferreting out. Most people want to know the exact ethnicities and the exact percentages. If I just say, “I’m X.” The next question more often than not is “Are you 100% X?” Sometimes they make explicit reference to racial purity, though mostly it sits as an unsettling undercurrent. This happens on a regular basis, so I can’t just write it off as a few weirdos/busybodies.
    I used to rattle off the list when I was younger, since I was raised to answer questions people asked, but now I’m getting the balls to answer impertinent questions with flippant answers. It helps me feel less like a show dog or like I’m taking part in a Nazi eugenics interview.

  43. Kaonashi wrote:

    LOL, I guess I’m the only bitchy person that says “American” and changes the subject!

    Hey, it’s more polite than saying “None of your fucking business; if you can’t tell from looking at me maybe you don’t need to know!” IMO It’s a rude question for a stranger to ask.

    The thing that really sends me over the edge is when I politely comply with someone’s obtrusive request to detail my exact genetic background… and then they refuse to believe me, or imply that I’m lying. They’ll actually argue with me. “But you look much more Asian than that!” ARRRGGGHH!

    Good God, yes! And it’s 1000x worse when you’re monoracial (but don’t fit someone’s narrow-minded perception of “how someone from X race should look”) because people get incredibly argumentative and insulting about it! No matter how you answer you just can’t win, so I refuse to play the “what are you?” game.

  44. n wrote:

    I almost never mention anyone’s ethnic background, but I will say half and half on occasion if there is need to be specific. I never thought or think of the person being half,its a short way of saying “half of her heritage is x, the other half is y and she has one parent from x and y”.

    Where I come from,there were social distinctions made when it came to percentages of this that and the other, so the people with whom I discuss it frame it totally differently. We have invisible family trees in our head and half may be an indicator of how many ancestors are from here or there, but not meant to presume that a person was herself half or 1/3rd this or that.

    Mostly, if its relevant, I simply mention the origins of the parents or the grandparents. “Her mom is from Cuba, her parents were from Haiti and Spain. Her dad’s family is from Zimbabwe”.

    Works better. Whats a person with a black cuban parent and an african american parent? half cuban half black? all black but half cuban half american?

    I had a friend who had 3 black grandparents, one from Belize one from Haiti one from Guyana and then a white English grandparent.

    What are the numbers on THAT?

    As far as myself, its no one’s damned business what I am or who my relatives mated with and I don’t discuss it. I have a LOT of stock answers that both let the questioner know that I am mixed, and that they arent going to get any further answers than that.

    The answer to “what are your parents?” “Male and female”. Where were they born? “Ohio”. That last answer is the BEST. OHIO, come on, what is more American than Ohio?

  45. Melanie wrote:

    I always say “Black and ethnically I’m French, American, and Native American.” But that’s just how I feel. Some people have so much invested in asking you how “much” Black/White/other you are and I don’t usually answer those people. If they want the story about how people in my family love miscegenation, then that’s another thing; but just a pedigree is offensive.

  46. Hank Merman wrote:

    This post made me think of the Sarah Silverman joke, something to the effect of “I dated a guy who was half-black, but he dumped me because I’m such a loser. Wow, I shouldn’t say things like that, I’m such a pessimist … he’s actually half-white.”

    I know Ms. Silverman can be problematic on the subject of race, but I thought that was funny.

  47. Nappy Mind wrote:

    During college in the 1980’s, my light-skinned curly-haired Black American friend was routinely asked by other Blacks, “What are you?” When told she that both of her parents were Black, the questioners would stare in disbelief and quiz her on specifics. I couldn’t believe the rudeness then and regret that folks are still being treated this way.

  48. petitfour wrote:

    @Kaonashi
    I used to be more than happy to tell people it’s none of their business what race I am but then they just assume I’m a total jerk. I just don’t want to get into and then they look all confused and I find myself having to give a detailed history lesson on the colonization of Central America and then I’m just exhausted.

    Ugh I hate anyone who asks “What are you?”

  49. n wrote:

    @xey
    I think “im half white, half black and half hispanic” is PERFECT!!!

    Are there 2 “half hispanic” parents, one white and one black”. Is one parent a white hispanic and the other parent black (NonH) or and one black hispanic and the other parent white (NonH)?

    Its perfect to me, because Im sort of passive aggressive when it comes to these sorts of questions. And this answer would answer the persons question, but NOT; they’d leave scratching their head trying to puzzle it out.And if the person using this reply felt like it, it would could be a chance to school someone on race vs ethnicity.

    No, the answer isn’t wrong at all. Its perfect, answering the question of race and the unspoken question of ethnicity.

  50. n wrote:

    @Martin I think of mutt as the term POC like to use and Heinz 57 prefacing mutt as the non POC terms for mixed up folk.

    @Phrone. Many years ago I decided on the “both and NOT either or” approach to describing people I knew. Mostly becase I knew a LOT of people who had an afro-latin and an afro-american parent,s o the whole “half” thing doesnt work, nor does the “which are you”.

    If my mom is Jen Smith and my dad Bob Jones, am I a Smith or a Jones? Im a Smith-Jones, duh. BOTH.

    @Kaonashi
    I’m from african slaves, native americans and european settlers. Im American. I figure Im the TRUE American breed, they don’t make this particular model anywhere BUT the Americas. I cant go back, go back WHERE? They dont make me anywhere but here, making me Native American. But American, born in OHIO, works for me :)

    I dont usually discuss my heritage with anyone but close friends (and the entire internet) because mostly what people tell me is “Stop lying”. *shrug*

  51. ACW wrote:

    LOVE this post and the plethora of comments.
    I understand the idea of calling *oneself* a ‘mutt’, but I could never do it and fear it encourages others to look down on the person being described as a mutt.
    I remember in junior high, the subject of ethnicity/heritage came up in class; a friend started listing the various components of her family’s background and someone piped up, “So, you’re a mutt, too?” She answered, “No, I’m nothing like a dog. I prefer to call myself a Heinz 57 – I’m a little bit of everything.” No fractions, and ’nuff said.

  52. Meg wrote:

    Great article – I’m surprised this is seen as a ‘nitpicking’ issue cos it annoys the crap out of me for a bunch of reasons but the main ones – for me it brings to mind ‘half-caste’ which i’ve heard too much as an insult. I guess i just don’t see 1/2,1/4 etc as a neutral description anymore like ’she has brown hair’. The other annoyance i get from it is feeling like i’m fighting for the right to belong to my own country. I know things can get confusing when trying to pick apart ethnicity, race, nationality, etc – even i probably mess up the definitions and my feelings on the issue don’t necessarily apply to others. But the ‘half’ description irritates me more when I’m told i’m half australian. The assumption being that australian-ness= whiteness and that my asian-ness means i can never be considered fully australian.

  53. Jess wrote:

    At the risk of getting napalmed, I’m gonna be a little contrarian.

    I have to say I’ve used the half-term or quarter-term on occasion but frankly, it was just a way of not having to explain a zillion things. Yes, it can stereotype, yadda yada yada, I’ll not repeat the entire thread or Thea’s post.

    But it’s sometimes just plain easier. The language is full of stuff like this and I always found when I had to describe my own ancestry — a tedious business — I found it simpler to tell them I am Jewish (which thankfully shuts people up) or if they were that interested, that I am one-quarter Asian, and then getting into things only if they really wanted to know that badly.

    Shorthand isn’t always nice or perfect, but for me, it avoids a thirty minute dissertation, you know? One that will bore the living crap out of most people, however good it makes me feel. (I realize it would not likely bore people here, but y’all gotta remember if you are reading this blog you’re probably not all that representative to begin with about these things).

    As far as speaking about other people, I could poll every single person I know or have ever met in my life how they want to be referred to every day, but I have found that sometimes that isn’t practical to do, ya know?

  54. Jadey wrote:

    Clearly this “nit-pick” has resonated with many!

    Lawrence Hill also talked about this a lot in his book, Black Berry, Sweet Juice: On Being Black and White in Canada. He pointed out how inaccurate the fractionalizing of genetic heritage is (f’rinstance, of the little variation there is among humans as a species, “race”, as well as that can be defined from a biological standpoint–if at all–accounts for only a teeny-weeny percentage of that variation), as well as how this kind of pseudo-scientific categorizing of heritage was used to fetishize people of mixed white and black background in the US, with very specific terminology created for every conceivable “combination” of heritages and often associated with sex work for black and white biracial women. A fetishization which continues for biracial and multiracial people of all backgrounds.

    I wish I could remember more from the book! I’ll have to take it out from the library again.

  55. Ruchama wrote:

    Good God, yes! And it’s 1000x worse when you’re monoracial (but don’t fit someone’s narrow-minded perception of “how someone from X race should look”) because people get incredibly argumentative and insulting about it! No matter how you answer you just can’t win, so I refuse to play the “what are you?” game.

    I’ve had this happen to me a lot (in fact, just last week, random guy came up to me on the street and asked, “Where you from? Your people ain’t from THIS country, are they?”), but I wouldn’t say it’s “worse” than the comments and questions that mixed people get. Just, a probably-related phenomenon.

    (Vaguely-related story that this discussion reminded me of: I’ve got a friend, D, whose mother is Japanese and whose father is white. His father was born Jewish, his mother converted to Judaism before getting married, and D and his sister were raised Jewish. Anyway, we have a mutual friend, L. L is white and Christian, if that matters for the story. Anyway, one evening, I called L to talk about something, and she told me that D was there with her, and she’d been trying to convince D to go out clubbing with her for her birthday, but D wouldn’t, because he already had plans to go to a different club that was having a J-pop night. L asked me, “Can’t you use some Jewish guilt on him to get him to go with me? It’s my birthday!” And I heard D responding in the background, “But I’m not being Jewish tonight! I’m being Japanese tonight!”)

  56. BSK wrote:

    I have to disagree. I have a very Polish name, yet am 3/4 Italian and was raised culturally Italian-American. Yet, people often seem confused to see a guy with my name demonstrating the culture that I do. So I explain my situation. The fact is, 3/4 of my family hails from an Italian-American background and 1/4 hailed from a Polish-American background (though had no impact on my upbringing). Yes, I am a whole person. But what is wrong in acknowledging the facts of my family? Obviously, if others are uncomfortable with this, they should self-identify as they see fit. But, I would argue, that simply ignoring “fractions” ignores the truth about the make-up of one’s family. Obviously, a person is not simply a number. But, appropriately qualified (as I do), one can clearly represent their families heritage as well as who they are as an individual.

  57. Lil wrote:

    Great article. This part in particular hit home in an almost uncomfortable way:

    “Many of the issues that plague the mixed race identity have to do with feelings of inadequacy and inauthenticity. Maybe some of that has to do with the fact that people are always telling us (and we often tell ourselves) that we are half of things. I mean, that has to have some kind of impact somewhere.”

    I’ve always struggled with social anxiety and inadequacy issues, and I feel that my growing up constantly being labeled differently and singled out for my “exoticism” (a descriptor I’ve grown to loathe) likely has much to do with my general social discomfort. Now after reading this, it seems almost obvious, hah.

    I grew up in an urban neighborhood that is heavily black and Latino, thus my being “half” Chinese always made me something of a spectacle in a bad way, at least to me. I learned not to tell “real” Puerto Rican kids I was Puerto Rican too at an early age, because I was since bullied regularly for being a poser/liar about my ethnicity. Couldn’t speak Spanish, didn’t dress or act like the other kids, so I must’ve been, right?

    My father’s family, who are Puerto Rican, would always refer to me as “The Chinese” in Spanish when introducing me to people who would then ‘ooh’ and ‘ahh’ and dub me “Ricanese”, which was always special, though I’m sure they had no ill intentions.

    I don’t have similar experiences with my Chinese extended family because they would never dare tread to our area of the “ghetto” and I haven’t seen them in years. Go fig.

    I’ve always hated “half-this, half-that”. In my experience, this just resulted in a double whammy of “you’re just not one of us”.

    As I’ve gotten older, the focus of my ire have mainly been the ridiculous pick-up lines. The “fiery Latina/freaky submissive Asian” stereotype combination is a particularly heinous one. You don’t even wanna know what some men think I can/would do in the sack.

  58. jen wrote:

    Yes, Jadey, I was just going to mention this huge point as well that hasn’t been brought up:

    Race is not linked to biology. Race is purely, 100%, a social construct.
    A public broadcasting program on race looked at dna from all sorts of people, and, of course, didn’t find any genetic indication of people from one race having different dna/genes/genetic markers/whatever from those of an other race.
    Yet, people want to inquire and also share their genetic makeup in racial terms that becomes a slippery eugenics-like slope at illuminating one’s ethnicity/citizenship/ancestry.

    Britta I liked your thoughts as well that this isn’t merely or exclusively whites policing the bodies of ‘others’ (in no way disounting the prevalence of racial bullshit ‘WHAT ARE YOU)’- we all engage in discussion of our heritage but unfortunately speak of our heritage in severely limited racialized ways.

  59. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Ruchama

    Haha, that is a funny story about your friend. I def do this too from time to time (for example, I blame my fondness for Abba on my English grandma). I think there is a big difference between people making jokes between friends and having others refer to you as half half. I say all sorts of redonculous things to friends that I would never ever write on Racialicious… :)

    @BSK

    That’s cool that you identify that way. In fact in my original post I was pretty careful to state that people should identify they way they want to. Asking people not to talk in halves was more directed at non-mixed-race people than mixed people. People should definitely have the right to call themselves what they want. Commenters earlier on this thread have talked about the term “mutt.” While mixed people might use that language among ourselves, if a non-mixed person ever called me a “mutt” I would be really offended.

  60. janelle wrote:

    @Medusa

    I have a friend who is Chinese and Puerto Rican who says “I’m not half, I’m double.” I loved it. I told a different mixed-race friend of mine about it, and he loved it too. I guess it’s kind of the same as the %100 white %100 black and %100 indian shirts.

    Great post and comments! Per usual, but yeah.

  61. Shelby wrote:

    I’m glad a couple people mentioned how complicated it can be to explain racial identity when you come from an inherently “mixed” group. Especially if you don’t happen to “look” mixed. I refer to myself as multiracial Black. But maybe if my eyes were a little different, my hair shorter, and my (real life) name not so weird…there’s no way I’d be allowed to publicly acknowledge any mixedness. Even now, it’s kind of a toss up. If I’m filling out a form that lets me fill in the blank I’ll put “multiracial/Black.” If someone casually asks me face-to-face I’ll just say Black. If they’re Black too and give me side-eye, I’ll get defensive and assert that BOTH my parents identify as Black so I’m no more mixed than another Black person in America so THERE!

    If I feel really comfortable with the person, I’ll admit that I really have no fuckin clue how to identify.

  62. Ccc wrote:

    I can wholeheartedly relate.
    My mom is an Afro-Native American who identifies only as black, and my father is an Italian-Samoan American who identifies only as Italian. Clearly, racial perceptions have colored my parents’ racial identity in their concealing or preferring one racial identity over another. When I was younger, I would obsess over what fraction of what race I was. I thought I was half black and one-fourth Italian and one-fourth Samoan once; I thought I was one-fourth black, one-fourth Native American, one-fourth Italian, and one-fourth Samoan another time; and I even thought that I was black, Italian, and Samoan in three even slices like a pie. The problem? I am not a baked good.

    Eventually in high school, I started researching and came across online communities, books, forums, articles, this blog ;) , and other sources that cater to, talked about, or featured mixed race people. I’ve learned and I’ve grow. Identity is multi-faceted and, contrary to a common misconception, multiple racial identities can exist. Just as someone can be a father, a son, a husband, and a man all at once someone else can be Polish, German, Nigerian, and Japanese (this is a bit of a stretch :P but you get where I’m going with this haha) all at once, too.

    Great Article!

  63. Katie wrote:

    @ the science girl-
    I’m with you on the whiteness thing. I think the word “white” means a person who benefits from white privilege.
    My daughter is black and I’m white, and I have had numerous occassions where white people lecture me on the “fact” that she is white and black, and I don’t really agree.
    She is black and multiracial. She is black and she has a white mother. She is black and has ancestors from Europe, Africa, and the Americas. But is she black and white?? REALLY??

    We are all complex, interesting people. Our families, our ancestries, our cultures all contribute to us becoming who we are. And if somebody wants to attempt to convey that when asked about their race, good for you. really. because maybe it will make somebody stop and think about how superficial it is to try to classify everyone as a member of this race or that race.

    That said, race is a social construct, it is not a biological reality. So I personally think that race is not so much who you are, as how other people see you. Racializing people is dehumanizing. But it happens. And the race that others percieve you as can have a profound impact on your life in our racist society.

    I myself am white, and I use the term often which actually makes other white people uncomfortable surprisingly often…
    Just thought I would mentio this bizarre experience, for those of you get weird reactions when saying that you are white and another race.

    Off the subject, but— It seems like a lot of white people don’t like to hear the word “white.” Anyone have any ideas what that’s all about? Because I’ve been white my whole life, and I still don’t get it.

  64. Katie wrote:

    @BSK- as Thea said, it’s cool that you identify that way. I also think people should identify however they want. BUT I think your situation is a little different than what some other people are describing. Because it sounds like you’re white. So thats your race. You’re not white and another race.

    White people do this “I’m a mutt” thing all the time- 1/2 Irish, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Polish. And I do get what your saying. I have a very uncommon last name from the 1/4 side, but culturally I’m irish, so occassionally I’ll explain to people why I have this “weird” un-Irish last name.

  65. Singlutionary wrote:

    When I was 17 this (white) guy who wanted to sleep with me said “you have this secret sexuality, that is the asian part of you.”

    A couple years later I was over being humiliated and thought it was funny. I told one of my best friends. We began this ongoing joke that I’ve got an asymetrical pussy because one side is tight (the asian side) and the other side is not so tight (the white side). She sent me asymetrical birthday cards and she knitted an asymetrical scarf.

    I am sure this is an utterly offensive story but I think it sums up the rediculousness of steriotypes about race sexuality AND about this whole concept of halves.

    When I don’t like someone and I don’t want them to ask me more questions, I say “I am half chinese and half white” because that seems to get them to stop asking questions faster.

    But seriously, I can not be reduced to halves. My whole is far greater than my parts.

  66. Mel wrote:

    I just came home from a talk about “talking race in the classroom.” An important part of the talk was how the concept of race is a social construct; in the US, specifically, concrete laws&rules were created that (a) designated who qualified as which race…and (b) determined, based on a person’s race, who could own — and who WAS — property.

    Interesting point… during colonial, slave-owning times, and after certain treaties had been enacted re indigenous land rights… to be identified by the dominant culture (i.e. white, owning, male…) as black, you needed only one drop of black blood. To be classified as Native American, you had to prove that you were ENTIRELY native. Why? Who did those classifications benefit?

    It seems like the whole percentage thing in the US emerged as a way to keep black people as slaves and to keep indigenous people from getting access to the land that was taken from them.

    Also, @ Hank: In what ways is that particular Sarah Silverman joke *not* “problematic on the subject of race”?

  67. Kaonashi wrote:

    @Ruchama: It’s worse in the sense that people will:

    a. tell you you’re lying and why don’t you “tell them what you really are”

    b. suggest that “there’s obviously things in your family tree you don’t know about”

    c. tell you that maybe you should talk to your mother about “who your real father is” because the person you think is your father might not be

    d. are rejected by your own community as not being “one of them” when in fact you are, and never said anything to the contrary

  68. m. wrote:

    Great post!

    I knew with this non-mixed Asian American person who liked to other or fetishize mixed race people (’other’ mixed women, and ‘fetishize’ specifically those males of Asian and white parentage), and when talking about them she LITERALLY took her flattened hand, pointed it at her forehead, and drew a line down her face to indicate their HALF-ness. It’s too real. She also started saying ‘hapa’ despite protests from certain Indigenous people who told her she got the background and meaning all wrong. (Let alone, a word that is the same as calling someone “fragmented with no background” in English. It does mean “half”, after all – misappropriation, much?) Anyway, witnessing and listening to things like this has all been very bizarre for me and it’s got me hyper-aware of how the world addresses and talks about biracial and mixed people. I have been thinking about blood quantuum and how hurtful it is to my own people, and though describing a mixed race person’s background with fractions and percentages isn’t half (har har) as damaging as blood quantuums and the one-drop rule (or the reverse one-drop rule that people have been pulling on Obama)…it’s still disrespectful, dehumanizing and part of the legacy of European race theory.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I thought it was especially funny to hear about another person who is a stickler about language; I’m sure I irritate to no end those I’ve spoken with who aren’t close friends/family, as well. Despite this, I won’t let up with the “lame” or “retarded” corrections, just as I will probably remark when someone uses ‘halves’, ‘wholes’, ‘parts’, percentages or fractions to slice-n-dice others. Especially since I’m documented as an amount, myself.

  69. little mixed girl wrote:

    damn. topics about mixed people explode with comments.

    for what it’s worth, i’ve referred to myself in/with pretty much the same terminology since i was a kid.

    if someone asks what i am, or what nationality i am (meaning what’s your race), then i’ll tell them i’m mixed.
    i might leave it at that, but i’ll usually follow up by breaking my mix up into parts.

    i didn’t grow up a native american, black or white household. i grew up in a minority household.
    even though my mom IDs as black, we were never involved in explicitly “black” activities.
    i wouldn’t feel right saying i’m 100% anything that i’m mixed with.
    if anything, i’m 100% mixed.

    if a person, mixed or not, called me a “mutt” i would be offended.
    i’m offended by people that use the word “mulatto”.

  70. ashlynn wrote:

    I totally agree. Yet at the same time, I find listing every ethnicity that’s ever tinged your blood on a daily basis annoying. It’s like, part of me goes, “Okay I know you’re a mixed bag already, and it’s totally cool with me so chill,” and another part of me goes, “Dude, I don’t have the attention span for this right now.” I think sometimes mixed people get so caught up in having to definitively identify themselves that it actually does more harm than good sometimes.

  71. AGH wrote:

    Thanks for the post and the comments. I identify as black(though my family has a sprinkle of Native American, East Indian, and white, I don’t look like those sprinkles), my husband identifies as white, and people often identify our toddler as “looking Asian.” I’m struggling with language that will not force her to choose to identify with one or the other. All I can come up with in these imagined conversations that we’ll have is to tell her that she is an American, because ethnically that’s who her parents are…

  72. Wix wrote:

    This is an interesting conversation. I agree about the half-half problem. The only thing I would say is that sometimes it’s exhausting to say “I’m Cambodian and white-American” and have people use this as the perfect segue into how “you don’t look Asian!” “I would never have guessed!” “But do you speak Khmer?” blah blah.

    The truth is that mixed people are whole people who embody multiple heritages. BUT, no one would accept, on either side, that we belong to those communities either. At least for me that has been my experience. It feels inaccurate to say “I’m cambodian and white” because no cambodian would say I was cambodian. And no white person would say I’m white. Sometimes it really does feel like I’m half something and half something else.

  73. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    Mixed schmixed! We’ll see how “mixed” you are when you get pulled over by highway patrol.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist. :D

    Great post, Thea. I also moved away from talking blood quantum / fractions a few years back. Glad to see you explain why it’s problematic.

  74. Christie wrote:

    I usually (lightly) tell my kids that they are “half Indian, half American, half English and half Japanese (sort of), and also don’t forget 1/8 Finnish!”. The fact is that they have one Indian parent (my husband), one American parent (me), one English or British parent (my husband), and they have lived more than half their lives in Japan so they consider themselves to be culturally part Japanese. Or I just tell them that if they are talking to other people in America or England, the short and simple way would be “half Indian and half white”. When asked by Japanese people “nani-jin desu ka?” (what are you?) they seem to usually say “English” (”Igirisu-jin”). Sometimes they add that they are half Indian, but more often not, as usually a simple answer is easier, and enough.

    I had never (until recent years) thought there was anything wrong with saying “half” because I always was proud to say that I am “a quarter Finnish”. However, as I am white and because of the cultural situation I come from, there were never any negative consequences or nuances to me saying I am one half this or one quarter that. I can definitely see that for many people, there are groups which will look down on someone for being “only half” of something.

    Living in Japan, I can see that the word “half” can be used in a negative way, and many people like to avoid it. Luckily for my kids, their situation is such that there are no bad feelings in either family or in their surroundings, in terms of being “only half” this or that. I.e., in their situation there is no potentially negative aspect (so far) to being half this or 1/8 that. So I have taught them the way above, with four halves (somewhat tongue in cheek, but also representing their somewhat confusing multicultural background).

    I get the part about many people feeling that they are 100% of both parts of their ancestry, but for my kids I think it is hard for them to feel that they are 100% Japanese or 100% Indian or 100% American or 100% English, so me saying that they are half this and half that would address the feelings they might have of knowing that they are technically American, for example (they have an American passport and a British passport), but at the same time not really feeling American (having never lived there). So saying they are “half American” seems a reasonable way to remind them that they are part American (as they have a passport and mother from that country), even though they don’t identify as American. However, depending on the situation I do sometimes say “You are American” or “You are Indian” or “You are English”. So I hope that my approach is fluid enough that they will feel comfortable to form their own way of seeing or describing their identity, as they get older.

    Of course, I have nothing against people describing themselves as “double”, as is fairly common here in Japan, but for my kids it is kind of meaningless and impossible. They can’t very well say they are “quadruple”…

    Something that bothers me is when some people in Japan will use “bicultural” as a shorthand for specifically “half Japanese and half something else”. For example, using the word “bicultural” when they are talking about issues specific to people who have one Japanese parent. I consider my kids to be also “bicultural” or “multicultural”, although they have no Japanese parent. So I say “people with one Japanese parent” (when it is necessary to have a way to describe people in this group).

    One time at the international school, my son’s 8th grade history class was learning about the terrible treatment of India by the British. One of his classmates said to him kind of negatively, “Oooh, you’re from England”… My son said, “Duh, I’m Indian too!!” and everyone accepted this. I was happy to tell him that night that none of his white or English side or whatever had been involved in the bad treatment of India, so basically it was okay to hate that part of English history without also feeling guilty or ashamed about it, and his ancestors were not involved in the bad side of it… he identifies very strongly with the Indian side in that particular part of history.

    My younger son (who is 10) said he is going to say he is “half white and half Asian”. I think with “Asian”, his intention is to incorporate both his Indian heritage and also his deeply felt Japanese cultural influences (he has been talking a lot about this recently).

  75. Christie wrote:

    Sorry that was long, but I am also curious about what other people think about these questions,

    - Several people said that it is okay for mixed race people to say “half” if they prefer to, but is it okay for a white parent to refer to their own kids as such, and even teach their kids that (for the time being, to address their possible feelings of having many cultural influences but not being “100%” of any one thing)?

    - Is it okay to voice the Japanese part, even if they have no Japanese nationality/passport, no Japanese parent or ancestor, no Japanese family heritage, etc., but they still have strong feelings of being part Japanese, mentally and culturally anyway? Or for example, if a child has spent the better part of their life in America and feels very American, but is actually a citizen of another country, is it okay to say that that child is at least partly American, at least culturally?

  76. Kris wrote:

    100% agree with what you are saying here. I do not call myself half black/half white. I always say I am both. I have a shirt that says 100% Mixed b/c that pretty much sums it up.

    It irritates me to be implied to be half of something.

  77. Emmeaki wrote:

    If you are going to refer to yourself (or others) as half something, it makes perfect sense to state both races of the biracial person. Just saying that someone is “half Japanese” automatically implies that the other half is white, thus making white the norm. I’m tired of white being the default race. Why is it that POC have to emphasize their race all the time, but white people don’t?

  78. Denarii Monroe wrote:

    Very well said.

    I am monoracial, but I related to your post on a different level–I am bisexual, and it is often said that we’re just “half gay and half straight”, or some other ridiculous “part one acceptable identity that doesn’t confuse people and part another acceptable identity that doesn’t confuse people”, which I personally really resent.

    I don’t feel that these things are related to one another–in fact I resent that bisexuality has to be related to homosexuality or heterosexuality at all, instead of its own identity (which I think is kind of the opposite of what someone else said–why can’t Obama be biracial *as well as* black and as well as white…therein lies the fork in the road where similarities between non-monosexual identities and multiracial identities part, for me at least, lol).

    That being said, and getting back to the racial aspect, I’d like to thank you for this food for thought for a monoracial ally to chew on. Great read. :)

  79. thesciencegirl wrote:

    Sometimes people get upset/confused when you do use 100% terminology (especially when you claim European/white identity). My younger sister (black and Italian-American) once owned a t-shirt that said, “Everyone loves an Italian girl” and people use to give her crap for it, like “hey, you’re not Italian.” But our cultural identity as Italian-Americans is just as strong as any other Italian-American family who is also white. We make some good lasagna, y’all. I kind of want to get one of those shirts myself just to annoy people; I think they even make them to say, “100% Italian.”

  80. Katie wrote:

    LOL Carmen, that’s basically what I was thinking but took a million more words to explain.

  81. Ico wrote:

    “Sometimes it really does feel like I’m half something and half something else.”

    Wix, I definitely relate to this. My family is culturally white, but by blood we are half Korean (my mother is a Korean adoptee). It feels disingenuous to call myself Korean since I have no Korean heritage. It feels equally disingenuous to refer to myself as a white woman, since anyone looking at me can see I’m mixed-race. Sometimes I just say I’m one or the other depending on circumstance, but it never feels completely honest.

    I think it’s also worth distinguishing the difference between race and culture. Racially I’m half Korean, half Caucasian. Culturally I grew up being treated “white” with strong Japanese influences (my stepmother is Japanese, and because my father is active in a certain Buddhist community we knew many other Japanese and Japanese American people). If I call myself Korean-American the assumption is that I have some roots in Korean culture or community, and I simply don’t; that’s why I say biracial or go on lengthy explanations about how yes, I’m half Asian, and no–not Japanese–I happen to be more connected to Japanese American communities but actually I’m half Korean.

    But good Lord it gets wordy. I’m not confused about what my identity is to me; but I have a heckuva time figuring out how to label it for other people.

  82. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Carmen

    I keep a blonde wig in my glove compartments for those sorts of run-ins.

  83. Lori wrote:

    Wow,

    What a great discussion here. I’m a monoracial mom to two Mixed kids whom I sometimes among friends and family refer to as SpaNegros b/c I’m Black and dad is Spanish. I don’t call them that to their face though.

    But they are now asking, What are we? And I tell them they are Mixed. I tell them they are Black and Spanish. I stay away from half language b/c it feels less than. But I have to say, they seem to smell the inauthenticity of Mixed as a culture to belong to. esp. since it’s neither mom nor dad’s identifier.

    So, what did I do about that? I started a t-shirt company called WhatRUgear to try to prove to my sons and the world that being Mixed is a pretty cool label to embrace.

  84. dersk wrote:

    Carmen,

    If you were living in Holland you’d probably just be described as Chinese…like the “Moroccan” kids who trashed a cinema this weekend, presumably while speaking Dutch.

    When I describe my origins, I just say I’m an American mongrel (I have an Americanised last name, and usually they’re asking about national origins). When I describe what I am these days, I say I’m half American, half Dutch, and half European. Which always give the opportunity to whip out some Whitman when people challenge that statement: “Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself – I am huge, I contain multitudes”. Or whatever the quote is.

    @atlasien: by describing yourself as a blend of Japanese and white, though, you’re mixing metaphors – nationality and race. What about the Ainu? (; (yes, I’m teasing)

  85. n wrote:

    @Ico
    I like the “I have some Korean ancestry” approach.

  86. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    Oh btw Thea, I’m Belgian, not Dutch. :)

    And dersk, having grown up in both Asia and Europe, I’m well aware that mixed race identity isn’t treated the same everywhere.

  87. submom wrote:

    I just spent an hour reading through all of the comments. I don’t think this topic is nitpicking at all. If it is, then we are a bunch of highly critical people then. ;-) Thank you so much for starting this discussion and for bringing my attention to the inherent issue in halving anybody. My kids are mixed. Naturally when I am with them, I don’t need to explain the “Asian” side and therefore I often just explain their “appearances” by saying, “They are mine. They are half white.” Or “My husband is European American”. I do make sure to never say “Half American” since that implies American = White. I don’t really have anything to add to the comprehensive discussion other than to bring up a different perspective that I find interesting in contrast: I assume that people are made to have to feel conscious of “What they are?” because somehow their appearances invite the question from the others. Let’s say an Asian person with a mixed heritage of Japanese and Chinese, in the West, this person would probably be left alone with very few people curious about their racial make-up. Whereas I know that if they live in a Chinese society, they’d be labeled as a “mixed blood child” which applies to anybody who is not 100% Chinese.

    Great discussions. I am saving this to show my children when they are old enough to comprehend. So thanks everybody!

  88. lovepeaceohana wrote:

    I’ve given up on the identification by percentage thing, for many of the reasons others have listed. I now identify as pinay, or if I’m feeling clever, halo halo – a Filipino dessert that literally means mix mix – and that’s how I hope to teach my son to identify as well. Of course that might prove difficult as he’s “three quarters white” according to his white gramma…sigh.

  89. submom wrote:

    Ok. I am obviously not very good at this… I just asked my 11 year old whether anybody has asked him “What are you?”, fully prepared to share with him the new rhetorics I learned from here today. “Huh?” “I mean, what do you say if someone, eh, wants to know about your ancestors and stuff.” “Oh, yeah, today. This Chinese kid wants to know, ‘Are you like Chinese or Japanese or what?’” “Oh, what did you say?” “I just said I am Chinese… I am Taiwanese, actually.” This is interesting because I don’t identify myself as Taiwanese specifically. I say I am Chinese, if questioned more, I’ll add that I came from Taiwan. Well. Maybe later.

  90. Ilumus wrote:

    Everybody keeps saying “white.” What is “white” exactly? Caucasian? (There are a lot of Chinese who are “whiter” than me in skin color.)
    And what is “Chinese?” As a matter of fact, I live in China. People’s stereotypes about what Chinese are like are ridiculous. Here I see every kind of variation from pure white skin to dark brown. There are a lot of tall people, especially in the north part of China. In fact, Northern Chinese are a genetic mixture themselves of various barbarian tribes, including some Caucasian ones.
    Personally, I am from a German background, and my wife is from a Chinese ethnic Hui background. Tell me, what is our daughter? She is a beautiful (to me) mixture of many traits.
    I hope she doesn’t have to struggle so hard with her identity as many of you have had to. Any advice?

  91. piile wrote:

    what a great post, thank you!

  92. m. wrote:

    @Ilumus:
    Your daughter probably will struggle if you take a patronizing tone with her like that. White = Caucasian; if you don’t know what that means, then why are you here? Also, “barbarian tribes”? Typical.

    What an asinine conclusion to make, everybody here has struggled with their identity.

  93. cindy wrote:

    I was taught to counsel for example if you were client to have you try saying, “I’m 100% Chinese heritage and 100% Dutch/white heritage” … that way it is claiming 100% of all of yourself and you get to have your people and heritage and ancestors 100%.

    Even if a person only had so-called 10% blood of a particular heritage they get to claim it 100%.

    I thought that was pretty neat.

    Nice post!

    xxoo
    cindy

  94. seattle_kyd wrote:

    i love this post. someone actually said to me this week, “but you’re *only* 1/4 black, so that doesn’t really apply to you.”

    i stopped giving percentages after learning i always had to follow that up with an explanation of “my dad is this and my mom is that,” to people who were confused by the idea you could be mixed with more than two ethnicities. i also say, “my dad was mixed before it was cool to be mixed.” i appreciate that in society now we have the option to identify as part this & that or just say “mixed”, instead of being assigned one identity over the other(s). it doesn’t stop people from trying to pigeonhole me though!

    however, i truly agree with and love the concept that none of my identities are mutually exclusive. i am all of them, all of the time. and yes, it matters to me even though i am “only” 1/4 black.

    P.S. i love the idea that there is some japanese part of my brain, busy learning how to fold origami and make sushi, while the black part of my brain handles functioning on the basketball court & the dance floor! LOLZ.

  95. Catie Chi Olson wrote:

    As someone with a Korean father and a Norwegian mother, I have identified as Norwegian only (just to mess with people when I was a little girl and because I adored my Bestamor), then would make them jump through hoops if they asked the dreaded and horrible “What Are You?”. Depending on my mood, I would say “Female”, “Irritated at your Question”, “A Human Being” or even “Walking erect, you knuckle-dragging racist”. As a waitress in high-school, I would bet no one could guess and I got answers like Greek, Italian, Siberian, etc.

    Recently I was saying “hybrid” – but now there are all those dang cars.

    Matt Kelley of Mavin once said (something like) “Sometimes is was as if knowing my racial recipe was the most important thing in the inquirer’s day” I ‘ve felt that too.

    I have also felt pressure from some people of color groups to choose, to be one OR the other. We are people who are not new to the planet, but growing in diversity and something different than fractions can describe.

  96. Gunfighter wrote:

    @ Carmen “Mixed schmixed! We’ll see how “mixed” you are when you get pulled over by highway patrol.”

    Allow me to take offense to that as a Black/Scottish/Irish/English/French/ American member of the law enforcement community.

    Jesting aside you can look at me and see a black man that obviously has some European ancestry… and on the odd occasion that someone would ask me the “What are you?” question, I gave a couple of different answers: “Human” was/is most common. Sometimes I would say “American… can’t you tell from my accent?”. Sometimes I would say: “I’m left-handed”, or, if I really wanted to screw with someone I would give them the old “Black/Scottish/Irish/English & French” answer.

    I agree with others who have discussed the fact that “race” is a social construct. People only ask you that stupid question so they can fit you into some sort of box. I refuse to be boxed. My children won’t be boxed either.

    The next time someone asks “the question”, maybe I should say: “What do YOU think I am? Make your own decision and go with it. See if it works”

    Mod Note - Gunfighter, this a joke that dates back to when this blog was called Mixed Media Watch. Carmen (who is mixed herself) is playing off that long standing tendency for people to deny mixed race identity by saying “Oh, we’ll see how mixed you are when the police come!” -LDP

  97. ambre wrote:

    I too have stopped using blood fractions, but admittedly I sometimes I use them to make people leave me alone because I can’t be bothered with their confusion/incessant questioning. I pretty much try to avoid answering the “what are you” question at all costs if possible (though not easy). I’m a firm believer in: if it’s important for you to know, you’ll find out through the course of getting to know me without 20 questions about my family history.

    If I tell people I’m Mexican and Japanese, they assume my parents met in some “exotic” way through some scandalous turn of events, when in fact my parents grew up in the same town and were high school sweethearts, making me a 3rd generation resident of Los Angeles (shocking!). If I add American in there (Japanese-American, Mexican-American) then people assume “-American” = white. ugh. For whatever reason people in seem to have an easier time swallowing the half half and born in USA. Living abroad also makes this issue a bit more complicated. I’m currently living abroad (in Australia) for the second time in my life (I previously lived in Japan) and I’ve gotten a lot of “where are you from” to which I answer “USA/California/LA” to which people sometimes seem confused. I’ve also been asked “where are your parents from?” answer: “USA/California” = more confusion (because brown people can’t be American!). Anyway, I guess my point being that it’s always difficult giving an answer that people will be satisfied with, let alone one that I’m morally comfortable with announcing to strangers/people I just met/employers. I wholly agree that the percentage breakdown can be damaging, and that folks should be able to identify however they like. Unfortunately navigating the many incarnations of the “what are you” question is still hard to do!

  98. octopod wrote:

    Man, Ambre, that’s funny, because if I met someone with Mexican and Japanese ancestry I’d assume they were Californian for sure…

    I just moved from LA to the Upper Midwest and am assured by my partner that race politics are way different here. Haven’t run into them yet though.

    I have seen my partner have some funny interactions where people ask, like in “getting to know you” new student situations:
    “So where are you from?”
    He says “Michigan.”
    “No, where were you born?”
    “…Michigan.”
    (Visible thinking on the interlocutor’s part, then more personal questions:) “Ok, where are your PARENTS from?”
    “Macau and Taiwan.”
    “Ohhhhhh…” (visible relief)

    I always find this pretty hilarious, but I think he’s just used to it. Me, on the other hand, they never ask unless they think they’ve figured it out. “What are you? Are you ___?” (insert “part Armenian”, “Jewish”, “French” or “Italian”, etc.) It’s kind of strange, and I don’t think anyone (ok, maybe one old Korean lady) has ever been correct.

  99. keith wrote:

    My mother and father are mixed native american,african american and white.
    some people think i’m hispanic,I don’t care if they mistaken me for something else. It’s much more simplistic to say I’m black or other when I’m filling out forms or something. To me there’s no such thing as a halve of a color,so when you say 1/2 of this 1/8th of that, people really don’t know what to call you, thats why I don’t like using fractions when it comes to race.

  100. meme wrote:

    octopod, christie, I think your comments intersect at the issue of at what point does a person become a “real” american, or japanese, or australian, or whatever. For how many generations do your ancestors need to have been born somewhere for you to be “authentic”? The answer of course, is, none. To demand x number of ancestors in such and such a format before letting somebody into the race club denies the reality of personal experience, while refusing to acknowlege family origins denies us community history. We must have both. After having read all these comments, and having felt a resonance with every one, I can only conclude that the only rational response to questions about my race is humor.
    My 2 cents worth?
    guy at bar: So, you’re mixed race. That’s a good look for you.
    me: Thanks, I did it on purpose.

  101. Damien wrote:

    I think there is a place for fractions, when you are trying to also convey where in the past genetic history of the person they have a mix of ancestry. If you say 1/4 Japanese, it immediately says “one of my grandparents was Japanese”.

    Its a trivial example, but I also would use fractions in describing myself – if I say “I am West Indian”, people will be very confused without the “1/64tth” to explain the pallid skin and red hair.

  102. Mike L wrote:

    Thank you!

  103. Veronica wrote:

    Really interesting and thought provoking. I agree with Ico about drawing the distinction between “race and culture” though I would also throw “nationality” in the mix too.

    I sometimes use the terms ‘half this and half that” to describe myself but usually explain my background in terms of my parentage. My father is Singaporean Chinese and mother is Australian Caucasian (Cornish-Irish), although both are Australian now by nationality, one naturalised and one by birth. I never say “white”, otherwise should I assume I should call my father “yellow”??? I also never say “white” because Australian, as with American or English, does not equal “white”.

    Anyway, I think this whole issue *is* about justifying one’s place to others based on how one looks. When I hung out with a Chinese girlfriend’s mixed daughter, people usually assumed she was my child just because we looked more alike, both being “mixed”. And now I have a child who is “3/4 Chinese”, I wonder what questions she’ll have as she grows up. Will some people deny her her Australian Caucasian ancestry, that goes back over 150-160 years, just because she looks more Chinese? On the flip-side I wonder what questions will be directed at her blonde, blue/green-eyed cousins who are “3/4 Caucasian” but have Chinese surnames?! I think my goal as a parent is to ensure my children have enough self-confidence and worth not to be influenced by what “the person on the street” thinks and to celebrate themselves as whole individuals in all aspects of their heritage, personality and identity, as those who know and love them will do.

  104. Peggy wrote:

    My children are bi-racial. I am white, their father is black. We were both in the military when we met and they were born. During the time I was in the military, race never seemed to be an issue. I knew a lot of servicemen who were married to Filipinas, Koreans, Japanese, etc. and my kids were just 2 more kids with brown skins. It wasn’t until I got out of the Navy and moved to a small city in Michigan that race started to be an issue. My kids were pigeonholed into minority-type programs, labeled as “black, etc. And yet, both culturally and psychologically identify as white. And if you ask them what their race is, they will say they are bi-racial.This is because they were raised as members of a white family, and their father was not a part of their lives.