Scattered Thoughts on Tyler Perry
by Latoya Peterson
Bringing up Tyler Perry tends to complicate conversations. He is a polarizing figure, represented by his work, an entrepreneur who provides work for black actors often passed over by the Hollywood machine, yet who trades in what some would call limiting representations of blackness and/or stereotypes. He is often touted as proof that blacks can achieve success outside of the mainstream, and yet speaking with those who have worked for him in below the line positions casts doubt that Perry is dedicated to anything outside of making (and keeping) money.
Still, as Tyler Perry keeps making headlines, we continue to wade through these conversations, which involve his work but are really conversations about race, class, and gender.
A couple of weeks ago, while guesting over at Jezebel, I was asked to write a piece on Tyler Perry being tapped to write, direct, and produce a film based on Ntozake Shange’s choreopoem “For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When The Rainbow is Enuf.”
I was immediately skeptical.
As I wrote on Jezebel,
It’s a complex, nuanced piece, and seeing Tyler Perry getting a writing credit gives me serious pause.
Directing? Fine.
Producing? Cool.
But writing and adapting it? From someone who writes flat, two-dimensional woman characters in all of his work? Even under the best of circumstances, I would be skeptical of a black man tackling a project like this. To bring Shange’s vision to light would take an understanding of why this work of art is so deeply intertwined with black women’s articulation of their own struggles under racist, patriarchal oppression – something that unfortunately, many still deny to this day. Black women’s voices are often lost in discussions of race (because all the blacks are men) and discussions of gender (because all women are white) and Ntozake Shange was beyond brave to put down all of these ideas and present them for public consumption even in the face of heavy criticism from black men when the play was released:
[T]his is the second round of a debate sparked in 1976 by the blockbuster success of Ntozake Shange’s choreopoem for colored girls who have considered suicide when the rainbow is enuf. It spread with the publication of Michelle Wallace’s Black Macho and Myth of the Superwoman (1980). These two works were the subject of widespread and acrimonious debate from many sectors of the black community. Vernon Jarret of the Chicago Defender likened for colored girls to the pro-Ku Klux Klan film Birth of a Nation, and dismissed it as “a degrading treatment of the black male” and “a mockery of the black family.” Perhaps the most controversial statement about Shange and Wallace, however, was an article by Robert Staples, “The Myth of the Black Macho: A Response to Angry Black Feminists,” published in The Black Scholar in March/April 1979. Identified significantly as “the noted sociologist on black sex roles,” Staples reflects in his essay a tendency in the current debate (as in most discussions of Afro-American literature) to read literature in terms that are overwhelmingly sociological.
Staples argues that Shange and Wallace were rewarded for “their diatribes against black men,” charging for colored girls with whetting black women’s “collective appetite for black male blood.” He attributes their rage, which “happily married women” lack, to “pent up frustrations which need release.” And he sympathizes with the black male need for power in the only two institutions left to black control: the church and the family. During the 1960s, Staples continues, “there was a general consensus – among men and women – that black men would hold the leadership positions in the movement.” Because “black women held up their men for far too long, it was time for the men to take charge.” But those like Shange and Wallace came under the powerful sway of the white feminist movement, he argues, they unleashed the anger that black women had always borne silently. For witnessing this anger, he concludes, they were promoted and rewarded by the white media.
This choreopoem is serious business, and it is not to be treated lightly, by those who do not live the story it tells.
I was not surprised by those who jumped into the fray to defend Tyler Perry. If they feel his work has artistic merit, they are welcome to do so. But I noticed a lot of the defenses weren’t “he’ll do a good job with this film and we need to have more faith.” They were more along the lines of “okay, well, he kind of sucks, but he’s the best we have and we need to support black film.”
After I finished the post, the perfect analogy came to mind:
09/04/09
When I was writing the post, I was focusing on making sure why people understood why this is a complicated issue.
But now I’ve thought of a better example. This is like Judd Apatow signing on to write and direct a film adaptation of the Vagina Monologues.
Could he do it? Possibly.
Does he show a past history of being good at conveying women’s stories? No.
Is he a successful filmmaker? Yes. Can he draw bigger crowd and more resources? Yes.
Does that mean he’s automatically the best person for the project just because he has some money? No.
Could Tyler Perry have read for colored girls and been deeply impacted? Of course, that’s a possibility.
But he isn’t just directing. He isn’t just producing. He’s writing the words for women to say and will be able to cut things add things and change things around. I’ve watched the majority of TP’s work (including the stage plays before he hit Hollywood). And his characters are improving, though they are still decidedly one note. But this is a big, big deal and a tough project. And I would feel much better if this were a situation like Push, where the film was written, done, and in the can when he decided to pick it up and distribute.
So, as I’ve said before, I’m torn.
But I would love to see Jilly from Philly in this, so there may be one silver lining.
A few days after I wrote that post, I stumbled across another piece on Tyler Perry on Esquire. The piece, titled “Why Tyler Perry Is the New Obama,” S.T. VanAirsdale argues:
All told, Tyler Perry is doing some profoundly next-level theorizing about race in the United States. The films are also funny, well-acted and entertaining; a little earnest, sure, and kind of cornball, but no worse than Love Happens or whatever Hollywood-establishment rom-com you’re dutifully tolerating this week. Ultimately, they boast a wide and, most importantly, multi-ethnic appeal well beyond the African-American audience that has made No. 1 openers out of four Perry films to date. In a real post-racial America, white viewers wouldn’t think twice about checking out I Can Do Bad, which should rather easily clinch the top spot at the box office on the eighth anniversary of 9/11.
But what specifically are black moviegoers buying into, and why does it so uniquely (if cautiously) yield the promise of a better America? You can start with Mabel “Madea” Simmons, the towering, muumuu-ed matriarch played by Perry himself. Routinely subject to critics’ outraged accusations of minstrelsy, Madea is guilty of nothing more than depoliticizing black rage. Madea Goes to Jail provides the quintessential example of this, offering Madea up as a career criminal (attempted murder, identity theft, insurance fraud, among other charges) whose chief motivation has always been little more than a sort of moral rectitude. No excuses, no apologies — but not in the glamorously transgressive hip-hop mold, nor the entitled, autonomous Dirty Harry style. Rather, she practices a funny, color-blind sense of justice advocating direct action and personal responsibility at any cost.
I’m interested in your thoughts, readers. I recently attended a wedding where Why Did I Get Married? was shown as part of the entertainment, and it damn near turned into a call and response session with both men and women yelling at the screen and advising or dissing the characters. I personally find it easier to analyze Perry through the lens of his work, and my analysis often heavily favors gender politics – which makes for interesting conversation (to say the least) as much of Tyler Perry’s base is composed of black women who agree with his messages.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
mahsino wrote:
The issues I tend to have with the Tyler Perry debate is the fact that most defenders can’t accept that yes, you can be happy that a Black man is getting a chance to tell stories that are relateable to a certain subset of Black people, but you don’t agree with his stories, directorial style, writing etc.
Personally I’m not a fan of “Mama Done Burnt the Grits” type plays and movies, but I respect his right to make them. What I resent is that any time anyone wishes to see different types of Black stories told they’re labeled a hater and that they must accept the bare minimum.
And weren’t we having this same debate in the 80s and 90s with Spike Lee?
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 10:08 am ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:
I knew that Tyler Perry will be producing “For Colored Girls…” but he’s going to WRITE the script???!?!
Now I’m worried. I have to agree with your Judd Apatow analogy if he was asked to re-write The Vagina Monologues. it doesn’t sound too good :-/
and yeah, that’s an outrage (and sad) that some people insisted that Tyler Perry is the only black talent we have left. Come on, really? What about Julie Dash, the critically acclaimed black female filmmaker? I think she would do justice in adapting Shange’s beautiful play.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 10:26 am ¶
Ladyrindy wrote:
I certainly understand having issues with Tyler Perry and his writing of black women. Yes, I can relate, but I find his depictions to be stereotypical and offensive in some cases. The women are either very downtrodden but sweet and well meaning, or she is a snotty rich bit*h. I’ve had arguments with my mother who staunchly defends him and his movies and, as much as I am entertained by them, I have issues with them.
Madea is a pistol packing mammy stereotype. She is loud, rude, crude, and crazy. Is she funny, yes, very much so. But she is still a stereotype. I also have a problem with the fact that in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE he has, a woman will say the following, “I gotta find my own way/I have to stand on my own two feet.” But by the end of the movie, the SAME CHARACTER who says this, is MARRIED. I believe that sends a mixed signal to women, saying you can’t make it on your own, you have to have a man, which I find to be very negative.
I am very nervous that he wants to remake “For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When The Rainbow is Enuf.” I am afraid that he will shy away from
the issue of women of color and depression and turn it into a sermonizing mess.
Just my two cents.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:04 am ¶
foshothoyo wrote:
I think that Tyler makes products for a specific demographic with specific values and specific politics. While I haven’t read Shange’s work, I can tell just from the title that the politics/messages of the work is not the kind of thing he or his demographic is used to working with. I also think that the film industry in general deals terribly with black women’s literature. But, I think that the industry looks to him to milk that demographic for them. In a way, I feel like they see him as a specialist in generating revenue from a market they don’t understand at all. He’s a middleman between certain black women’s pocketbooks and certain people in the film industry.
I think the best we can hope for is that he can distill the major themes/ideas down into a form that is digestible for mass audiences in a way that doesn’t make us want to vomit in our popcorn.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:06 am ¶
jen* wrote:
I tend to enjoy TP movies. I laugh, and have fun. Even so, I see the stereotypes and the not-so-subtle hints about gender roles and the church and I’m not so impressed.
Sometimes being a black/mixed, Christian, feminist is complicated. Having grown up in the South, in my skin, I can appreciate TP movies because they are familiar. I know people personally or peripherally who have been in some of his situations, and lots of people who subscribe to his loose theological emphasis of women being subject to men.
I don’t agree with the basically anti-feminist themes in just about everything he does, but I still watch.
I wouldn’t put TP in charge of writing a feminist project…in the foreseeable future, but I wouldn’t necessarily compare him to Apatow. I’ve felt actively antagonized by Apatow’s movies in a way that I haven’t with Perry’s. Maybe I’m giving him a pass, but I just don’t get the same feeling from TP as I do from Apatow. Perhaps it’s the familiarity of everything else that softens the blow – I dunno.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:25 am ¶
Zahra wrote:
I saw your Jezebel piece and I very much appreciate your point about the difference between directing/producing and writing the screenplay. Especially for a piece that is all about black women telling their own stories, rather than having them told by black men or white women.
I’ve see For Colored Girls etc performed live, and it strikes me as a piece it would be incredibly difficult to translate to the screen. It doesn’t have a conventional plot, and is all about character. I’ve never figure Perry as a natural fit for either of those.
Which is not to say that Perry couldn’t have been moved by the piece (I certainly was, & I’m not a black woman). But there are ways to help without taking over, like he did with Push adaptation. I think he’s gotten the job because Hollywood thinks there can be only one Black Director (Who Makes Money), who is necessarily Expert on All Things Community. That doesn’t sound like progress.
I echo the point Sarah Warn has already made:
http://www.afterellen.com/blog/sarahwarn/tyler-perry-for-colored-girls
We should think about who’s not getting this job because Perry is. Why isn’t this project being helmed by a black woman? What does it say when black women can’t even get the green light to tell their own stories? I’d love to see what Kasi Lemmons, or Gina Prince-Bythewood, or Tina Mabry, or even Angela Robinson (though I think she’s less of a natural fit) would make of this text.
If it has to be Perry, why can’t he work with a talented black female writer who might have a different sympathy for the text?
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:49 am ¶
cocolamala wrote:
i was trying to explain why Tyler Perry is problematic to my friend (she’s white) as we sat down to watch my copy of Meet the Browns. She started to say she liked his movies, and I agreed that he’s entertaining (after all I own a copy myself). However, when I summarized the plot beforehand, the glaring stereotypes jumped out at us.
“it’s about a single black mom, struggling to make ends meet. Her oldest son is a BASKETBALL PRODIGY whose bright future might be jeopardized by the drug dealing thugs who used to be his buddies…”
THEN, the first scene opens with Angela Bassett running to catch a bus with her best friend, a firey Latina who comes to Basset’s aid by helpfully cussing out the bus driver….
and the eye rolling began…
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 12:30 pm ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:
i’ve never seen one of his films, so i can’t entirely comment on the content. i can, however, express my concern over the fact that this man in drag as a black woman creates a particular problem for black men and women in america. just because whites and non-blacks see perry’s films doesn’t mean his work is somehow bandaging race issues in america, or at least as the last writer eludes. that, in my opinion, is a bit troubling. i don’t want a black man in drag as a black woman in a comedy film to be what “heals” this country, particularly as it only offers up the same old solution: blacks make fools of themselves, others are humored/entertained at their expense. could we then go on to say 50 cent is our racial problem panacaea too? afterall, his biggest fan base is non-black. let’s just throw in the towel folks. problem solved!
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 12:43 pm ¶
PPR_Scribe wrote:
The popularity of Perry’s film has, to me, to do with the (previously) untapped power of a certain segment of “Black America” characterized by, among other things, religious conservatism, age (middle age or older), gender (largely female), social class (largely working or lower middle class)–and, perhaps most importantly, a certain nostalgia for what some feel was a “golden age” for Black folks. In this golden age, we had no-stuff-takin’ Big Mommas who as heads of our extended kin networks, people worked hard to achieve but did not get too uppity about their education, any soul could be saved and put on the straight and narrow by religion, and Black women were saved by strong Black men.
His films are not for me. But I am careful not to discuss this fact among too many of my friends and family.
The danger for me in his being in so much creative charge of “Colored Girls” has to do with (a) what his core audience will expect from this, as a TP film, and (b) what “Colored Girls” core fan base would expect from a film adaptation.
Assuming we decide that Black folks have just as right to profit from corniness and silliness as other groups, this particular movie will not/should not/could not be a LOL-fest comedy. Could TP audiences accept a TP film that is serious? I am reminded of seeing the movie version of “Color Purple.” In the largely Black audience where I first saw it there was laughter–uproarious, gut-splitting laughter–in the most serious, heartbreaking parts of the film. It was all I could do to not go up and down the rows slapping people. I fear for similar scenes in a TP production of “Colored Girls.”
But regarding my second point, I have a feeling that those of us who feel strongly about “Colored Girls” will have such high expectations for a film version that we will not be able to see clearly to fairly critique the film–let alone sit through it. In fact, I question how many of us really recall, understand, or truly “love” the play. I have talked to a number of Black women who have admitted to me that they mostly love it because they believe they should.
This is a complex and deep discussion. Personally I am looking forward to the conversations.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:22 pm ¶
Shadow And Act wrote:
Ah yes, the always polarizing Tyler Perry. Nothing gives my blog more life than a post on Tyler Perry, with the discussion often becoming rather virulent!
So it goes…
I write for a film blog and to our knowledge, Tyler Perry isn’t the writer of the script. He will be directed from a script written be Nzingha Stewart, who was originally attached to direct the film, from that same script.
If you think about it, the film is scheduled to begin shooting in November. That’s just a couple of months away. There’s almost no way Perry or anyone for that matter would be able to adapt such complex material within such a short period of time. Lionsgate already committed to Nzingha’s script back in March of this year. But having Perry direct it, with Oprah’s support, was a much more attractive deal than having an “unknown” in Nzingha at the helm.
So, I think he’s directing from a previously written script. Sure, there may be some adjustments made to it, but I believe Nzingha’s stamp will remain.
As for Perry himself – his core audience comprises of African American Christian Conservatives, and the reasons are obvious, I think. Not that I have an issue with them, to be clear. The problem I have with Perry is with what the man’s work begets. The success of his films essentially means that mainstream African American cinema will be dominated by similarly themed films, given how narrowly studio execs define “black cinema” – until one of his films fails financially. And then it’ll be onto whatever the next “black film theme” du jour is.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:39 pm ¶
SarahNicole wrote:
Damn. That was a hot mess Staples wrote. And I use his edited volume in my Marriage class. He’s written much better, much more nuanced stuff (and selected a wide and interesting range of work for the book). But damn. Just damn.
And Apatow writing the Vagina Monologues. *snerk*
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:51 pm ¶
Isitme wrote:
I wish it was Spike Lee. I was one of the only people I know who loved Crooklyn. I have no hope for this movie whatsoever.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:53 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
I want to say that Tyler Perry seems to be expanding his usual movies…he is also producing the movie Precious based on a book by an author named Sapphire and I liked the movie The Family that Preys…I have a feeling Tyler Perry is just getting started in showing that he can do more than the usual. . . but I dont know why he wants to write the script for the movie, he’s a man.
I REALLY wish Tyler Perry would go to school and work on his writing. His writing is not very strong.
The movie Precious has gotten alot of buzz at Cannes and one of the actresses is being discussed as a possible Oscar nomination.
Here’s the trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5FYahzVU44
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:57 pm ¶
thebiblophile wrote:
What about Ntozake Shange? Does she have to giver permission for her play – and ultimately her idea, to be used by Tyler Perry and Nzingha Stewart whom Shadow & Act (@ 10) explains actually wrote the screenplay? What does it mean if Shange gave her blessing?
Also, isn’t it interesting how a Tyler Perry focuses so very intently on womyn, yet I don’t recall, and this could be because I don’t know all of his work, him focusing so intently on the lives of men. How about a movie with a male lead talking about how he can “do bad all by himself.” There is a patriarchal fantasy at work here. I did appreciate the different perspective that Medea could be standing in for a “non-threatening” Black rage, that as a Black male, Perry cannot express – and still make buckets of money.
I am getting exhausted from all the pop culture misedu-ma-cation going around. When I hear about Perry, I can listen to the nuances – and then at a certain point I feel like that last scene in School Daze and wanna scream “wake up!” Why does “black cinema” seem to have a “there can be only one,” “Highlander” clause?
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 2:19 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:
Much like Scorsese, Tyler Perry writes about the people/situations he knows best (which is why almost all of his work has that middle/upper middle class Black Conservative Christian bent). It will be good to see him branch out.
Personally, I’m looking more forward to Spike Lee’s “Passing Strange” as…something I can relate to more. Honestly, isn’t there more than one way to be Black?
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 2:40 pm ¶
Shadow And Act wrote:
@ thebiblophile
Shange has already given her permission. The work isn’t in the public domain.
What does it mean that she gave her blessing? I guess it means she must approve of the work. But I can’t say what the agreement they have with Shange contains, because I haven’t seen it. And I don’t know the woman personally, but I’d assume that if she’s given her approval, she must be ok with what she’s read and heard from the filmmakers and their reps.
As for Perry focusing intently on stories about women… Pedro Almodovar does the same, for the most part.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 2:47 pm ¶
Eva wrote:
I don’t understand why this is being made into a movie in the first place. I saw the original in 1977 and I really don’t think it would translate onto the big screen.
I have seen some of Tyler Perry’s movies and for me it’s wash, rinse, repeat. It’s the same movie over and over again. I did like “Why Did I Get Married?” because of Jill Scott’s storyline, the rest of it was a bore.
I think though they should give “For Colored Girls…” to someone else to write, maybe Shange herself?
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 2:50 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
“Also, isn’t it interesting how a Tyler Perry focuses so very intently on womyn, yet I don’t recall, and this could be because I don’t know all of his work, him focusing so intently on the lives of men.”
Biblophile,
If you watched all his work, you would see how he focuses on the lives of men too…and not just men of an unknown race, but Black men.
Being that I’ve seen many movies produced and written by Black women and men, I’m confident about saying that Black cinema is very diverse, my sister.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 4:06 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:
“The success of his films essentially means that mainstream African American cinema will be dominated by similarly themed films, given how narrowly studio execs define “black cinema” – until one of his films fails financially. And then it’ll be onto whatever the next “black film theme” du jour is.”
Shadow and Act for the win. Except I think that the theme is often red-lighting all melanin-rich projects because it’s determined that “black” doesn’t sell anymore. But sometimes that feels like the theme toujours.
Re: Shange’s blessing – technically, this project only needs the blessing of the last person who held the rights to the play. In 30 years it could have passed through a lot of hands and, in light of the difficulty I foresee in translating it to the screen, I would not be surprised if it has. Not knowing the history of its optioning, I don’t know that it’s safe to assume to that she would approve of the plans of Lionsgate and Perry.
I would love to see someone else doing this. I am afraid of what this is going to turn out to be in Perry’s hands.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 4:17 pm ¶
Asada wrote:
Can we atleast assume the Perry is more nuanced than this? I think he will do a fine job, and that he understands what he is taking. This is not comedy, he needed a break and to go in a diffrent direction. My onlyl qualm is that a black woman was choosen.
Best of luck perry, make us proud!!!!
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 4:32 pm ¶
ceecee wrote:
Adrienne, The Family That Preys is a T.D Jakes movie.
I have mixed feelings about TP projects. I like all his sans-Madea movies so I have hope that this will turn out well.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 4:55 pm ¶
thebiblophile wrote:
Shadow And Act @ 16: thank you for the clarification about ownership rights, etc. That’s really helpful and for me adds a layer about ownership, particularly of the body of work of individual artists – specifically when that artist is a womyn of color.
I’ve heard Ntozake Shange say that the purpose of much of her work as a writer is to destroy our contructions and understandings of the English language, because the English language was never meant to include Black folks – nevermind including our survival or usurptation of that language. Given that, it makes me wonder what consent from Shange means andif not having it because ultimately she doesn’t own it, what that means about Perry’s erasure of the originator of the piece, Shange.
Adrienne @ 18: thanks for your perspective of Perry’s work. I was posing my query as exactly that: a question. And, I think, as inarticulate as it may have been, wondering what it means that a Black man, very literally inhabits the body of a Black womyn in order to tell many of the stories in his films. And that such a device carries, at least for me, potential for complex meaning about gender, representation – and quite frankly a compelling case for the “epistemology of the closet” – and how transgendered identity is signalled or repressed in Black cultural expression.
It’s undoubtedly true that Perry features men in his films, but from what I have seen, read (here and elsewhere) his primary central figures are womyn. Certainly, I am clear that Black cinema is very diverse – but that’s not necessarily what is produced, promoted, or gains prominence – as many have said here. To previous points made here, it’s sometimes as if there can be only one Black director who’s in, and then that’s the genre that gets picked by studios.
Yes, you are exactly right Pedro Almodóvar centers womyn in his films as well…and I imagine I have the same questions for him that I have for Perry. To my knowledge, however, Almodóvar has not appeared in one of his films as a female alter ego, with a loaded name. Moreover, Almodóvar speaks about complicating gender, identity and sexuality in ways that to date I have never heard Perry discuss. And in fact a comparison of the two (Perry and Almodóvar) is at odds in that their audiences and purposes are diametrically opposed: Perry’s audience tends to be more conservative than the audience Almodóvar tends to target. Not to mention how different their genre/franchises are. Lastly, Almodóvar is critically examining and reconstructing a particular cultural dynamic, trying actively to provide different viewpoints and even break down stereotypes (though Bad Education gives me much pause) through his work – Perry seems to reify patterns of thinking about gender and sexuality. Thanks for the suggestion – your thoughts got me thinking and I found some pieces about Almodóvar and gender:
http://hub.hku.hk/handle/123456789/31287
http://www.opengender.org.uk/files/All%20About%20Women.pdf
In the end, I find that though I’m troubled by Perry, it’s not an all bad, all good equation. And that I’m mindful of checking my own elitism, issues, et al even as I critically look at (or avoid) what Perry produces.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 5:16 pm ¶
brownstocking wrote:
@ 1 mahsino
We were, there were just fewer of us on the interwebs. Trust and believe, LOL.
And, honestly, EFF whoever let him write the screenplay. Seriously, money doesn’t make everything acceptable.
@ 5 jen*
I feel we may have similar situations (progressive, feminist, Christian, southern-raised) but I find TP just as personally antagonistic as you Apatow. I mean, I can’t stand Apatow, either, but I truly can’t stand a man who made money off of our backs in minstrelsy and mocking those who made him the multimillionaire he is today. Talk about big pimpin!
And the person who wrote the Esquire article makes me wish I smoked weed. Cuz I want them to pass that good ish on to me!
Woosah!
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 5:22 pm ¶
SAL wrote:
I think that in some respects the black community at large has stopped growing intellectually. Racism and classism really have us by the throat and instead of demanding more access to education, better neighborhoods, a wider world than our ghettos and low-income suburbs, we’ve taken all our angst and turned to the church (which does indeed exploit this). I’m tired of Tyler Perry and find it ironic that while there are black filmmakers with something of substance to say, we’re stuck with sepia-toned versions of Uncle Buck (I happen to like this kind of humor, but not 24-7) and Porky’s, with a little downhome, sanctimonious Christianity thrown in. I can’t wait until Perry’s 15 minutes are up.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 5:22 pm ¶
brownstocking wrote:
Also, the play was filmed many years ago, and, no, it didn’t translate that well. I tried to use it for a class, and we were able to have some discussion, but the kids (college-age) weren’t really identifying with it.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 5:30 pm ¶
allheavens wrote:
I am not a fan, I’d rather stick needles in my eyes. I find his films to be misogynistic, derivative, clichéd drivel.
Anyone notice how all the women in his films are abrasive, evil, conniving, weak, emotionally crippled, adulterous, sexually repressed or sexually promiscuous? While offering positive representation of Black masculinity (unfortunately achieved through an assimilationist fantasy), stereotypes about Black women are reified and reinscribed.
The cure for all that “ails” her (the Black woman) is finding a good, solid, God-fearing, hard working man and all her problems will be solved. *rolls eyes*
Remember the ad for “Why Did I Get Married?”
“Diane is overworked; Sheila is overweight; Angela is over the top; Patricia is overly perfect.”
Each female character had some distinguishing attribute which was the source of martial divisiveness that had to be exercised like a demon in order to restore marital bliss.
These films are just reaffirmations of traditional gender roles through the figurative and literal beating (see Sanaa Lathan) of the Black woman back into her “place”.
And PLEASE don’t get me started on Madea.
I am sorry, but this has “vanity” piece written ALL over it and considering the complexity of the material I am not holding out much hope.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 6:28 pm ¶
M wrote:
I sure wish they’d given this project to Julie Dash. Why would they give a work like this to a man, and TP at that. It’s not fair, they’re cheating black women again as usual, in favor of a man. He’ll get all the credit for a womans’ work, and no black female will get any piece of the glory, not the writing, not the directing, not the producing. All we’ll be able to do is buy a ticket. I’m pissed.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 6:46 pm ¶
thewayoftheid wrote:
So I heard that Perry named some of the actresses he cast, and Beyonce was on the list. I suppose he couldn’t find any ACTUAL black actresses, you know the ones who are actually serious about the craft and went to school and STUDIED this sort of thing.
Which is what I was afraid of. So yeah, if I was skeptical before…definitely moreso NOW.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 7:10 pm ¶
JustChaz wrote:
“I wish it was Spike Lee. I was one of the only people I know who loved Crooklyn. I have no hope for this movie whatsoever.”
As long as he isn’t writing it, because if he is, he’s no better than TP when it comes to writing women characters.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 9:00 pm ¶
Princezz wrote:
If nothing else, Tyler Perry knows and caters to his target audience very well. Now, this may not include the majority of posters here, but he does know how to sell fantasy story lines even with all of the imperfections and stereotypes in his script writing, directing and overall production.
With that being said, some of the Black women that may relate more to TP movies and the characters likely welcome the fantasy and don’t mind the stereotypes as long as there is a happy ending or at least what is perceived as such.
Some of these women may simply want to escape from their day-to-day lives due to their own personal experiences as survivors or victims of abuse, domestic violence or addiction, as well as others that are dealing with issues of single parenting, marital problems, divorce, etc. In his films, he consistently echoes real or imagined messages of advocacy, support and understanding. In essence, he becomes somewhat of a cheerleader in the eyes of some.
Additionally, it’s probable that Tyler Perry’s target audience is simply pleased to see more men and women of color in movies. Of course, the eye candy factor is always prevalent in his films and serves to enhance the fantasy. As my brother pointed out, many of the actors in TP films are some of the most beautiful and well-known men and women in the industry. Again, this is all part of gaining and retaining his target audience.
Yes, based on his body of work to date, there is definitely skepticism as to what he’ll do with Ntozake Shange’s choreopoem “For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When The Rainbow is Enuf”. He just may surprise us all and raise the bar with this one, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:49 pm ¶
Fantomex wrote:
@Adrienne:
Check out post #10, and what was said about Perry not writing the movie, only directing it.
@M:
Julie Dash’s direction might work for Daughters Of The Dust, but I’m not sure it would work for this movie, as seen by the comments at IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104057/usercomments?start=10
@allheavens:
So getting a good job/career, raising a family and providing for it/becoming a productive member of society is assimilationist? Considering that half of or most of the Afro-American population is in jail/homeless/poor, I’m not too sure that assimilation’s that bad.
About Madea: every time I’ve seen this character on the screen, I keep getting the feeling I’m seeing the Afro-American version of Thelma Harper (Vicki Lawrence’s character from ‘The Family’ skits on The Carol Burnette Show), only a bit more larger than life.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 2:57 am ¶
Karyn wrote:
@thewayoftheid
TP did list Beyonce, but he also listed Ruby Dee, Thandee Newton, Angela Bassett, Cicely Tyson, Kimberly Elise, Oprah, Alicia Keyes, Maya Angelou, and Mariah Carey. Supposedly he has asked 6 of these ladies (he won’t say which, other than Oprah) to be in the movie and they’ve said yes.
http://www.bvonmovies.com/2009/09/09/breaking-news-tyler-perry-announces-dream-cast-on-for-colored/
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 4:33 am ¶
shermari wrote:
ceecee, The Family That Preys was written and directed by Tyler Perry. It was the only TP movie that I went to the theater to see and I walked out. Right after the “uppity Ivy League educated Black woman who cheats on her working class Black husband and looks down on her working class mother” was slapped clear across a restaurant. She needed to be brought down a few pegs, as all educated women in his movies need to be.
I won’t see anything from Tyler Perry until he stops with his Black woman hating themes. I’m not holding my breath though.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 12:46 pm ¶
Amused0472 wrote:
@shermarri–I made the mistake of buying the dvd because I didn’t see The Family That Preys in the theater. I pawned it for $1 which was more than it was worth.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 3:18 pm ¶
Shawn wrote:
I think part of what’s been going on with TP is that he’s making the movies that have box-office draw and will make money. Yes I find some of his characters tiresome, and some of the jokes too ridiculous to laugh at. But it has allowed a lot of neglected actors of color to get real front-stage work, and allowed him to do as has been talked about much in the past: put his own studio together to make films. This is one of the marks of power in Hollywood. Once you have power you can use it to get other people through the door.
Also, I remember all the catcalls at Spike Lee with “Girl 6″. Admittedly not a good movie, but creatively daring in going in a direction others hadn’t thought of during a time when 1-900 numbers were becoming very prevelant. So maybe we should give TP more time, even with his faults, to continue improving his films for a wider audience. He may surprise us.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 3:38 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
Princezz,
You got that right. TP is a marketing genius. He knows how to get his audience and keep his audience, and he knows why they like his movies even if they are outrageous and make-believe and stereotypical.
I really do think TP can branch out, and he already is attempting to do so.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 5:03 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
Re: Fantomex’s comment:
“@allheavens:
So getting a good job/career, raising a family and providing for it/becoming a productive member of society is assimilationist? Considering that half of or most of the Afro-American population is in jail/homeless/poor, I’m not too sure that assimilation’s that bad.”
Black people born in the U.S. are Americans. We cannot assimiliate into a culture we already belong to and most of us are not on drugs, homeless or in jail. We are not downtrodden, IMO.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 5:06 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
Sharmari,
I am with you in not liking that figure. Yet I’ve met and known a few Black women who act just like that, putting down people even though they are successful and college educated and shouldn’t have a need to put down people. I, myself am college educated and still have seen this.
I think a writer of a movie can write his characters to be anything he or she wishes the character to be.
I couldn’t stand the character Kathy Bates played in the movie Misery. She was awful. I don’t think I would want to see the same type of character multiple times in movies…so I don’t fault you for how you feel at all.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 5:10 pm ¶
Joy wrote:
OHMYGOSH!! I want to see the play “For Colored Girls” so bad. I heard about it for the first time a year or so ago when Essence did an article about it going back on broadway or something. I would much rather see the original play first.
I am surprised and disappointed a black woman isn’t directing the film.
Then again, I’m American, so I’m really not *ALL* that surprised a black woman isn’t being given a shot. That seems to be how Hollywood works. Oh well. Boo.
I don’t like Tyler Perry’s films. I do not feel uncomfortable expressing this view to my friends who are avid fans and do not care what I think. We all still get along just fine. I don’t think it’s being a hater, I just don’t like them. Some people do, and that’s fine. He definitely has a market and I’m glad he’s there to give his audience what they want.
@Isitme – I have a friend who is a crazy “Crooklyn” fanatic – you’re not alone!
@CeeCee – Tyler Perry did “A Family that Preys”
@shermari – I went to see that movie with friends and was pissed at the end where Gabrielle Union’s ex is giving her some of the money I guess he made from his business that he started with HER money . . . UM!! I don’t care if she did get that money while cheating – it’s her money and she should have taken her ex to court!!! (Sorry, had to get out my rant that’s been a year in the making, LOL).
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 9:30 pm ¶
shermari wrote:
Adrienne,
TP has the right to make his characters into whatever he wants them. However, as others have pointed out, once you’ve seen one TP movie you’ve seen them all.
The themes are all the same. Damaged Black woman saved by hard-working Black man and Christianity. Of course she might need a good slap on the way to salvation. A lot of people love and identify with his movies. I don’t happen to be one of those people. His movies don’t entertain me, they enrage me. I don’t need a message, inspiration, or whatever from TP. Thus I don’t go see his movies.
With the box office success, good reviews, and mass following that TP has achieved, I don’t expect him to change what he does or how he looks at the world. As people keep pointing out, he’s a hell a of marketer and knows how to bring people into his movies. He’ll probably stick to what works. So far he has.
Good or bad at least Spike Lee’s movies don’t follow the same tired, cookie cutter pattern.
Finally, just as there are college educated, well off people who look down on others, there are poor, uneducated folks who do the same. No one group’s bad behavior is beyond reproach. It seems like in TP’s movie the working class people are painted as saints, while only the upper class, educated people have flaws.
Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 9:33 pm ¶
ashlynn wrote:
To be frank, when I read the piece as a younger girl i was very moved. When I saw the movie I couldn’t even watch it. It’s the kind of piece where you have to paint your own pictures for it, not watching someone else’s. No matter who was writing this, I would be hesitant to watch it. That said, I’m definitely hesitant to watch it if Tyler has writing credit on it. As a writer myself,
I don’t associate his work with much skill in writing and telling a story, at least without resorting to stereotypical “i am nothing without my church” characters.
Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 1:45 am ¶
Emmeaki wrote:
Mahsino wrote:
Personally I’m not a fan of “Mama Done Burnt the Grits” type plays and movies.
LOL!!!! Me neither!! I never wanted to see a Tyler Perry movie because I know from the previews how stereotypical they would be. A man in a dress playing a “Big Momma” role has been done to death.
Why is he the one writing the script instead of a woman?
Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 3:43 am ¶
bertie wrote:
@ Allheavans: TP equally sets out male/female saints and sinners. All his movies have this binary dynamic. The central love interest generally revolves around a good women who has been abused in some way by an evil black man and a good man being taken advantage of by an evil black woman. To ignore the many black male villans in his movies is a little disengenuous.
And I don’t think that TP offers men as THE solution to his heriones problems. Christian faith is presented as the solution. But I think he knows his target audience is constantly being told that they are unwanted, unmarried and destined for singlehood forever-whether they prefer singlehood or not. The inevitable union of the good man/woman is TP’s hackneyed way to reinforce that the heriones (and the target audience) are wanted, sought after, fought for, etc….And to be honest, girl gets the boy at the end is pretty much a staple of hollywood romcoms. TP is know diff.
Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 3:42 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
I already know how awful Tyler Perry’s movies are.
I think he has the right to make them awful, even if it involves a Black female character who is college educated but mean.
I don’t feel such characters need to be protected from ever existing in movies, nor do they need to be “defended”, so to speak.
People watch Spike Lee’s movies to get a Spike Lee movie. And they watch a Tyler Perry movie to get a Tyler Perry movie. Thank God for those options.
I have my likes and dislikes in different Black movies, yet it still is curious to me that there is a desire to defend the characters Tyler has the right to portray however he wants.
If I made a movie about a woman who was a real bitch, who was Black and female, I would hope my fellow Black people understood that this is fiction, not reality. And if people didn’t get that, well tough.
Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 5:35 pm ¶
Adrienne wrote:
Excellent points, Bertie. Tyler Perry’s movies are like a chitlin version of the storylines aired daily on daytime soap operas.
Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 5:37 pm ¶
ashlynn wrote:
Oh God- that “Mama Done Burnt the Grits” line is gonna be the one that gets me dirty looks on the train for cracking up out of nowhere!
Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 10:39 pm ¶