Comments

1. ms four wrote:

   I liked this, well, most of the parts where Burqa spoke. I wasn’t crazy about these lines from Bikini:

   “Aren’t you curious what it feels like to be almost naked, standing on the beach and having all these guys look at you like they want to eat you-”

   “That’s great but I don’t care about religion or God.”

   Plenty of very religious, devote women wear bikinis and care deeply about these issues. And plenty of women wear bikinis because they are comfortable (or other reasons I don’t know about because I don’t wear a bikini) and not because they want men to stare at them.

   Burqa says, “I’m not going to look down at you,” but earlier she called Bikini “pathetic.”

   So, which is it? The tone I get from this piece is that Bikini is indeed a stupid bimbo, while Burqa is wise and enlightened.

   But, Latoya, it sounds like you are suggesting the rest of the play goes deeper… I hope so.

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 9:03 am ¶

2. little mixed girl wrote:

   pretty good piece.
   i totally agree with the points raised.

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 9:15 am ¶

3. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

   “I can only imagine what Muslimahs feel when people continually talk past them, ignoring their words and stubbornly holding on to their pre-existing ideas.”

   Thank you Latoya. As a hijab-wearing Muslimah, it annoys me to no end that people can “decide” that I am oppressed. Even when I decontruct all of their stereotypes- mentioning that I am a convert, a “Jamerican”, the only Muslim in my family, therefore no one is forcing me to wear it- some people will actually say “well, your case is different ‘the rest of them’ don’t have the choice.” UGH!

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 9:29 am ¶

4. sweeterjuice wrote:

   Some time back I read an article written by a Muslimah from Canada who explained that by following the modesty code of her religious tradition (and I’m sorry, I don’t remember the specifics, just that it didn’t involve a burqa), she was forcing men to deal with her as a person first. The nature of her dress kept them from checking out her breasts, or her butt, or her legs, and instead forced them to look her in the face and realize that they were dealing with a human being.

   I had never thought of it that way before, and it completely changed my perspective on the Muslim modesty dress traditions.

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 10:04 am ¶

5. Shadow And Act wrote:

   Good piece.

   Ultimately… it’s a world in which men write the rules. So, whether you’re wearing a Burqa or a bikini, it’s all within the context of a patriarchal society. Who’s really freer? As “Burqa” says at the end, as a woman, no matter the side you’re on, “There’s no way to win,” so, instead of judging the “other,” why not unite and “fight,” since, in effect, both have a common “enemy,” if I can use those terms for effect.

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 10:08 am ¶

6. Shadow And Act wrote:

   Good piece.

   Ultimately… it’s a world in which men write the rules. So, whether you’re wearing a Burqa or a bikini, it’s all within the context of a patriarchal society. Who’s really freer? As “Burqa” says at the end, as a woman, no matter the side you’re on, “There’s no way to win,” so, instead of judging the “other,” why not unite and “fight,” since, in effect, both have a common “enemy,” if I can use those terms for effect.

   The image at the top says it all, I think.

   *sigh*

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 10:09 am ¶

7. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

   thanks for posting my play, I appreciate it

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 10:47 am ¶

8. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

   for the 1st person: um…. Burqa called Bikini “pathetic” right before they got started talking and began to get knowing each other…

   everyone’s like that. you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, but many people (including me) do. Burqa and Bikini were prejudiced toward each other at first, before they got to know each other.

   I suggest you read the rest of my piece before you jump all over it and complain about my work.

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 10:49 am ¶

9. Medusa wrote:

   Ms Four, I’m with you on everything you said… The message I’m getting from this is that bikini is an idiot and burqa? is the only one who really knows what’s going on.

   Also- I’m not sure if I”m digressing, but isn’t it unfair to compare a bikini to a burqa? A bikini is a situational (and functional) item of clothing and has nothing to do with any kind of a belief system, while burqas are something that a lot of women wear all the time as an expression of their faith.

   Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 11:05 am ¶

10. Joy wrote:

    Why can’t women respect the choices of other women? This reminds me of the hair debate on another thread. It starts with little girls being catty in grade school and ends in burqa wars, hair wars, work or stay home wars, and about a million others.

    @Ms Four – it does seem that Bikini is kind of a bimbo . . . but just goes to show that women really can’t win!

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 11:31 am ¶

11. Tintin LaChance wrote:

    I’m inclined to agree with ms. four; the about-face in the line “I think you’re better than wearing that awful bikini, but I’m not going to look down at you” was enough to give me whiplash.

    In any case, though, it’s an important reminder that just because one has a set impression of the burqa or hijab doesn’t make it an accurate one. Some of those comments over on Jezebel are absolutely infuriating.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 11:31 am ¶

12. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Ms. Four/Medusa/TinTin –

    Did you all click through the link and read the entire piece, as I encouraged? It’s a ten minute play that is posted, in full, online. A lot more happens than just this opening bit.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 12:06 pm ¶

13. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @DIMA –

    Any time. I was really in knots over that thread, so I stumbled upon it (through your twitter feed, actually) and was grateful. I especially liked the part where Burqa discusses her desires.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 12:07 pm ¶

14. nemogbr wrote:

    As someone else stated, the bikini is clothing for a particular function. In a normal situation, we do not see women in bikinis working in offices or walking down the street.

    The play should have been between a conversation between a burqa and perhaps a casual suit/skirt or jeans & t-shirt.

    I remember a comment that to certain cultures there are two types of women.

    Covered or uncovered meat.

    Christianity had a great way to control sexuality,which has been weakened by a secular society. Islam possesses an even more oppressive way that unfortunately is still used in theocracies.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 12:30 pm ¶

15. ms. four wrote:

    Latoya, thanks for the suggestion. Somehow I had missed the link before. I read the whole piece, and I do like it.

    DIMA, I might suggest that there are better ways than saying this, “I suggest you read the rest of my piece before you jump all over it and complain about my work.” to get people to read your work. I read the whole thing, and then the comments, and saw that some others replied the very same way I did. And you responded very graciously on your blog–to the exact same comments I made here.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 12:38 pm ¶

16. Ain't I an African? wrote:

    Cover up and you’re oppressed. Show your body and you’re shallow or immoral. All this stems from the ways in which women’s bodies are regarded. Take this further to body size and type: slim and angular and you’re perceived a certain way, plump and voluptious, you’re perceived another way, large and voluminous, yet another way.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 12:55 pm ¶

17. Fatemeh wrote:

    Latoya, thank you! Loved this, love Sabina, and love (sarcasm) the whole non-Muslim debate. I wrote about it at my blog and at at MMW: http://muslimahmediawatch.org/2009/09/the-fight-of-the-century-chesler-vs-wolf/

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 1:31 pm ¶

18. Aliyah wrote:

    Working in Birmingham, England in social services, I have seen girls and women beaten and threatened by male family members for taking their hijab off when they leave the home to go to school or just meet friends in the afternoon.

    I have worked on cases in which British Muslim girls married to older men are forced by intense familial pressure to wear the burqa.

    The reality is that there is massive contextual pressure that many Muslim girls and women face from their families and community to follow a dress code that is oppressive, as well as being (metaphorically) bashed over the head with guilt by being told that rejecting the hijab and burqa is a betrayal of their religion.

    It is important for everyone to acknowledge this reality, especially those who assert autonomous freedom to dress as they please, and sneer at those who highlight these reactionary pressures that many Muslim girls and women face to conform to cultural and dress pressures against their will.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 3:38 pm ¶

19. SeattleSlim wrote:

    I like the dimension given to Burqa. Bikini had points where it would seem like she would be “mature” and enlightened, but what I got, and take it for what it’s worth was, that bikini was “basic.”

    I know people write with a slant so if DIMA is a burqa wearking muslimah, then naturally, she’s going to understand burqa better than bikini.

    I guess bikini had to be ignorant for burqa’s story/thoughts to really shine through, however.

    Not every women feels liberated wearing a burqa, just like not every woman feels liberated wearing a bikini. But some women do feel liberated wearing both. I know that I have no bones about wearing a bikini or revealing clothing, and I don’t mind being ogled at. Half the time, the men don’t know I’m ogling them lol

    Very interesting play. I want to read more on the site.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 4:00 pm ¶

20. Erica wrote:

    I have to agree with Ain’t I an African? and Shadow And Act’s comments. In both cultures the style of clothes is dominated by men’s opinions.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 4:26 pm ¶

21. Montclair Mommy wrote:

    Hmm. I read the whole play and I have to say that I found it really offensive to women who choose to see themselves as fully equal to men and who therefore choose to dress as they do: according to season and function.

    I understand that this play was written by DMIA, who I often read and respect, but it does seem as though she is unable to see things from the “bikini’s” point of view. Its fair to say that I, a woman raised in a Western country, cannot really see things from the burqa’s point of view either, but I don’t deign to try. Just so you know: a woman who chooses to wear a bikini does not necessarily do so to attract male attention, but because its hot and she’s swimming and its stylish. Why should a woman feel forced to wear a one-piece or a swimming costume or (yuck) refuse to swim at all just because men may or may not look at her body? Why is it that men are the only ones allowed to wear revealing clothing in the heat? Why is it that we must cover ourselves and they are not taught to simply look away out of respect? Although I can understand the impulse to write from two opposite view points, I do not feel that DIMA was able to accurately put herself in the place of the woman wearing the bikini. I doubt that many women who wear bikinis would actually say something alone the lines of “and why is it so bad to be a whore?” Not exactly the thought process of the average “liberated woman”.

    I also thought this play was a little bit apologist to ultra religious groups that actually DO force women to cover. The woman in the bikini is maybe too much of a “whore” and a bimbo to bring up the fact that in man countries and cultures women do not get to make a choice about what to wear or not wear. Yes, obviously there are women who CHOOSE to wear the burqa, like there are women who choose to wear the habit or who dress modestly and cover their hair because they are Orthodox, fundamentalist Christians, Amish, etc. But there are also women who are forced to cover up their entire bodies from head to toe, obscuring even the slightest reminder of their person-hood and reducing them to one large black piece of cloth. I also think its a little disingenuous to say that covering allows men to see the person first when the same religious factions that encourage use of the burqa also discourage fraternization between women and men that are not related. This all reminds me of The Handmaid’s Tale, when the women (fully covered from head to toe) are asked if they are happy and they answer “yes”, even though they are, in actuality, miserable but so tightly controlled that admitting it would mean punishment or death. This may be (and probably is) my bias, as a women who does not cover, but it is genuinely how I feel about the issue.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 5:27 pm ¶

22. Montclair Mommy wrote:

    Sorry for the typos. Man=many in the second sentence, last paragraph and alone = along in the second to last line of the second.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 5:30 pm ¶

23. Maati wrote:

    I liked the monologue. Very well done.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 6:54 pm ¶

24. Beth wrote:

    @ ms. four

    re:
    “I read the whole thing, and then the comments, and saw that some others replied the very same way I did. And you responded very graciously on your blog–to the exact same comments I made here.”

    I noticed the same.

    That said it is great to see a more nuanced portrayal of women who wear burqa. I dare say that white women in bikinis (in the full play, you find out the bikini woman is white) have been portrayed in more varied ways than women in burqa. Indeed, this imbalance might be part of DIMA’s frustration with folks noting that Bikini is portrayed as a bimbo in the play.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 8:16 pm ¶

25. Adrienne wrote:

    I love the play because I love the irony of no men being present even though men and patriarchy and the opression of men is discussed between the statue and burqua.

    I love the play because it reminds me of the Egyptian woman I met in college who was proud of her burqua who said she felt safe within it, that men were forced to deal with her as a person instead of as a series of body parts…and she shared that loved to wear bikinis and fashionable clothing under her burqua when she was at home.

    I love the play because the 2 female characters in it are challenging themselves to look past their own personal prejudices and distorted beliefs about themselves in relation to other women.

    Women are bigger critics of other women, more so than men, IMO.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 8:23 pm ¶

26. Jha wrote:

    ms. four @ 15: Aw, c’mon, invoking the tone argument this early in the thread?

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 9:11 pm ¶

27. ashlynn wrote:

    Nicely done! Though I wouldn’t necessarily compare the two at first, it does make sense: the bikini is the closest you can get to being nude in public. Over time, it’s been whittled down to a view pieces of fabric, whereas the burqa is quite a bit of cloth.

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 11:03 pm ¶

28. Padycakes wrote:

    I totally loved it Sabina, your an excellent writer. Very powerful words!

    Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 11:11 pm ¶

29. Colleen Beach wrote:

    BIKINI
    I DO sleep around sometimes.
    BURQA
    Oh.
    BIKINI
    Does that make me a whore?
    BURQA
    I don’t know.
    BIKINI
    Technically, yes, it does make me a whore. But why does it have to be a bad thing?

    REALLY? REALLY? If she thought that made her a whore why ask?! It sounds MUCH more like someone who doesn’t agree with that point of view/lifestyle is attempting to put words in that persons mouth… hmmm…

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:43 am ¶

30. luckyfatima wrote:

    Interesting play. Some people will never get it, though. See some of the above comments for proof.

    But thanks DIMA for putting a different voice out there.

    I like the burqa vs. bikini juxtaposition because it is false and sensational…I took that to be the point of their selection rather than hijab and a pants suit or hijab and jeans(which can be worn together of course!) I don’t think it supposed to be real, at all. Since the vast majority of Muslim women who cover do not wear a burqa or cover the face, and the vast majority of non-Muslim women don’t wear bikinis very often or at all. The two are symbols. Muslims and non-Muslims alike have seen the two set up as imaginary polar opposites. The imagery is used that way pretty commonly in the media and also in some popular orthodox Muslim rhetoric.

    Honestly, I don’t think the very many people who sound like Bikini sounds at the beginning of the script are ‘bimbos,’ but they do seem thick headed to me because they just don’t listen. And there are wayyy to many of those people. Those are the ones who aren’t gonna get this piece because they have already made up their minds without engaging Muslim women, they already know everything about Muslim women probably from watching the TV in their living rooms…and here is a perfectly fine play speaking to them, but it is too hard to re-educate themselves from someone else’s perspective on an issue.

    I don’t wear a burqa, I wear a head scarf and long loose clothing. But I feel what Burqa is saying because in real life some non-Muslim people make similar judgements about me that they do about her.

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 4:49 am ¶

31. RCHOUDH wrote:

    Wonderful play DIMA!

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 9:56 am ¶

32. Rita wrote:

    @ Aliyah in #18, and others who equate hijab with oppression, keep in mind that there are plenty of conservative Christian and Jewish cultures that require women to wear dresses. Yet we do not view dresses in general to be a form of oppression, even though there are certain contexts where they ARE used for oppression.

    There is a difference between self-chosen modest dress, and domestic violence. Like sex and rape, they are not at all the same thing.

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:15 am ¶

33. jen* wrote:

    Reading the excerpts definitely didn’t give the whole picture – I went to read the whole play and LOVED it. I don’t think you can possibly understand the entire premise without reading the whole thing [and it's not like it's that long]. But if you *do* read the whole thing, it seems pretty clear that the conversation is the beginning of a journey towards understanding. That neither burqa nor bikini is without prejudice in their ideas about the other – and that they both have insights that the other might benefit from.

    I say great job, DIMA!

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 11:48 am ¶

34. SeattleSlim wrote:

    I think that assuming people who disagreed or did not *like* Bikini’s tone have made up their minds, etc. is a bit unfair.

    I’ve had this convo here several times and have come out stronger in my opinions AND still understanding that I needed to change some because I was wrong for assuming that every hijab wearing woman was forced to do so.

    I can’t speak for everyone else, but in my opinion, bikini needed more dimension. The fact that she slept around being equated to being a “whore” is from a point of view that those of us who wear bikinis and/or slept/sleep around don’t get. That’s where the disagreement comes from.

    Sleeping around does not automatically make one a “whore”. That is a male driven thought process and idea. That’s where people are taking offense.

    Bikini came off more false and sensational than Burqa. With that said, I can see how she had to be, to a certain extent, because she had to reflect a certain level of ignorance. I just don’t know if injecting the age old “harlot=someone who sleeps around” was necessary to get that across. Burqa grew and became multi-dimensional. She did a great job of giving her that. Bikini became more endearing, but still ended, in my opinion, being Paris Hilton-like, with epiphanies here and there and potential for enlightenment.

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:47 pm ¶

35. SeattleSlim wrote:

    BIKINI
    Technically, yes, it does make me a whore. But why does it have to be a bad thing?
    =============================

    I think this line here is a point of contention.

    Not it does not make her a whore. I don’t know what it makes her, because the backstory could include various factors, but no, it does not, not even technically. It means just what it says, “she sleeps around.”

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 1:51 pm ¶

36. Montclair Mommy wrote:

    @Seattle Slim:
    “I think that assuming people who disagreed or did not *like* Bikini’s tone have made up their minds, etc. is a bit unfair.” Yes. Exactly. I have not made up my mind entirely re: the burqa, hijab, covering by women in habit or by Orthodox women of all varieties–that is why I read plays like this (and I did read it, in its entirety). I am always hoping that I can get a different perspective.

    This exchange, though, to me was a bit naive and silly:
    BURQA
    I’m not trying to tell you to wear a burqa. If you’re gonna wear a bikini, I want to wear my burqa.
    BIKINI
    I just don’t want anyone to force me to wear a burqa. I like my right to wear a bikini!
    BURQA
    That’s why I love being in this country. I can wear what I want. But when I wear this, people call me a terrorist and they say I shouldn’t be allowed to wear it. Yet I thought we have freedom of expression here.
    BIKINI
    How is wearing a burqa considered freedom of expression?
    BURQA
    Freedom of expression means- the freedom to express yourself.

    OK, I see the point. Wearing a burqa is a part of expressing herself and her religion. That’s great. But here’s the thing: the bikini’s concern is off when it comes to the US, but it is not off when it comes to other countries. Whereas I have never heard of a country that forces its women to wear bikinis, there are certainly countries that have and do require the burqa. And, to me, that is what invokes queasy feelings in me when I see a burqa: the realization that if I were somewhere else I too would be forced to conceal my entire body from head to toe just because I am a woman. That is frightening to me and it is a real reminder of the danger of sexism and oppression of women in religion (and this extends WAY beyond Islam). I think we do ourselves a grave disservice if we forget this or if we dismiss these concerns as “some people will just never get it.” No, I get it. I just don’t agree.

    And, on another note, I do not see the connection between hijab and a burqa, other than the fact that they are both covering used by Muslim women. I see a HUGE difference between these two types of covering. One is modesty, the other keeps a woman from being seen as an individual. She could be anyone under there, and to me, that is the point. Her identity and individuality are not important: she is a woman, so she should be invisible. A hijab is the exact same thing as a habit, a wig, or any head covering and head coverings are often worn by men and women in religious groups (this, to me, is key in how I feel about it). Do men choose to wear full coverings from head to toe? Are they ever forced to do so? No. Big difference. In a hijab a woman can feel the sun and wind on her face. She can move and breathe fully and can look other people in the eye if she chooses to do so. Not so with a burqa. HUGE difference IMHO.

    When considering the issue, my desire to be open-minded fights against my desire that women be treated as equals before God and man (again: this extends WAY past Islam). If a woman is truly choosing to dress in a full burqa, more power to her. BUT one cannot assume that a woman is choosing OR not choosing the burqa. Its the assumptions that are the problem, as far as I can tell, on both sides. Just because a woman is religious does not mean that she will wear a burqa and just because she wears a burqa does not mean that she, in her heart, is religious. Assuming, obviously, doesn’t help anyone.

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 4:21 pm ¶

37. pm wrote:

    Last time I was at the beach there were women in bikinis and hijab/chardor there. (Only the binkini clad were swimming, but ice cream cones were common to all).

    So they do meet occasionally in real life.

    I agree with Montclair Mommy that there’s a vast difference between hijab and niqab/burka. I personally don’t see how anyone can object to the former, any more than to a Sikh’s turban or a Jewish skullcap, or a punk’s mohican come to that.

    But face-covering does have a deep social-significance and practical effects (there are niqab wearing women on the estate where I live and I literally cannot tell them apart. It has real effects, its not just a symbol.

    Regardless of one’s attitude to the niqab/burka, its a different issue entirely to the hijab and I’m puzzled why the two very different garments are so often referred to interchangeably in discussions.

    There’s a huge difference between ‘modesty’ in the sense of not revealing one’s bodily shape, and concealing the face to the point of anonymity.

    Also, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone in this country wearing an actual Burka (as opposed to niqab).

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 5:23 pm ¶

38. Big Man wrote:

    I read a good chunk of the play.
    I like the concept, but, I think the bikini was built too much on stereotypes while the burqa was a more fully realized person. Also I didn’t particularly care for this sentiment:
    “That’s why I love being in this country. I can wear what I want. But when I wear this, people call me a terrorist and they say I shouldn’t be allowed to wear it. Yet I thought we have freedom of expression here.”

    I’ve always felt that the freedom in this country pertains to the ability to express yourself, not to control people’s reactions. I always get into arguments with people who make ignorant racial comments because they complain that I’m preventing them from having freedom of speech or expression. However, what they are trying to do is express themselves how they feel and then control my response to their expression.
    There is a legitimate complaint about being called a terrorist and how wrong that is, but I don’t think that speaks to the idea of freedom of expression.

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 5:39 pm ¶

39. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

    wow… nice to see there’s so many people here who can’t understand my play.

    First of all, BURQA and BIKINI represent two EXTREMES at the end of a spectrum. One woman told me, various years ago, told me that she’s always felt that there are TWO extremist versions of women presented in the media: the WHORE vs the SAINT.

    so would you guys feel btter if I change the name of my play to “THE WHORE AND THE SAINT”? Because some of you can’t seem to get the concept that my play is actually about the “Whore” vs the “Saint” (or as some call it, “the Ho vs Madonna” complex).

    it’s not about being a Muslim or about being a feminist. It’s about two extreme, biased, sexist versions of females who are presented to the media.

    such a shame some of you can’t grasp that in my play and have taken my words out of context.

    Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 9:32 pm ¶

40. anon wrote:

    I think the way the “bikini” is portrayed in this piece is completely obnoxious and it’s a played-out stereotype that holds no water.

    That being said, the “burqa” character is correct and I generally agree. I just wish “burqa” had been given someone else to talk to… maybe a regular woman who happens to like bikinis every now and then instead of a bimbo. That would have been considerably less insulting to everyone else.

    Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 4:35 am ¶

41. Big Man wrote:

    DIMA
    What’s sad is that you would assume that the people who read this site, who are familiar with the Whore and Saint complex, would be unable to understand that basic concept in your play.
    My disagreement was not borne of a lack of understanding, but based on the fact that I thought you developed the burqa more as a person and left the bikini as a stereotype.
    That was my criticism and I stand behind it.
    If my thoughts mean I didn’t “get” your play, so be it.

    Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 12:18 pm ¶

42. Celeste wrote:

    @DIMA: I liked the play and I haven’t got the impression from your other work that you’re a slut shamer, especially given the whore of lahore piece. I do think that the Burqa/Madonna extreme was given much more depth as a person and was not so much of a stereotype as the bikini/whore which made it seem unbalanced to me. I think if the bikini were just as complex as the burqa it would have seem less biased.

    Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 1:25 pm ¶

43. Jay wrote:

    I feel that people who are complaining about the “sleeping around makes Bikini a whore” miss the point…

    My interpretation is that women are called whores (or sluts, etc) in order to control them and their sexuality and we should reject these things.

    Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 3:54 pm ¶

44. ktrujillo wrote:

    wow… nice to see there’s so many people here who can’t understand my play.

    If you’re just preaching to the choir you can make all kinds of assumptions about those listening to your monologue…but if you’re trying to create an actual dialogue, especially with those who may have a very different pov, then you have to create a space in the work for those people to enter. That is the responsibility of the artist/writer. As a life long artist, I think that a line like “people here who can’t understand my play” smacks of a type of close minded defensiveness that can keep a work (and an artist) from becoming truly great.

    Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 6:11 pm ¶

45. Joy wrote:

    @Adrienne re: “Women are bigger critics of other women, more so than men, IMO.”

    YES! And the problem starts in preschool if not before

    @DIMA – Some people may not understand, but I think, also, a lot of people just don’t agree with everything in your play. Then again, a lot of people like your piece. And everyone is talking about it . . . doesn’t this equal success for a writer?

    Posted 16 Sep 2009 at 9:51 pm ¶

46. Sare wrote:

    DIMA,

    “wow… nice to see there’s so many people here who can’t understand my play.”

    Well, its your artwork, yes, but you put it up for discussion and interpretation. Its all well and good that you are there to explain how you created this work, but it seems very counterproductive to dismiss other people’s interpretations. This reference to a lack of understanding seems to me that you are calling those who do not agree or see your POV or who do not simply complement the play as unintelligent.

    “Because some of you can’t seem to get the concept that my play is actually about the “Whore” vs the “Saint” (or as some call it, “the Ho vs Madonna” complex).”

    Again, its not that the ignorant plebians are unable to grasp such a common theme in literature concerning women, its that we were able to see more than one theme in the art, even if it was not initially presented by its creator.

    “such a shame some of you can’t grasp that in my play and have taken my words out of context.”

    If you are so offended by discussion and critical thinking concerning your work, you are free to not post it for the general public. Its very detrimental to any dialogue you are putting forth in this play to denegrate anyone with whom you do not agree. Instead of patronizing and attacking people, work more constructively to get your work across.

    My problem is that the Whore/Saint Bikini/Burqa comparison are not so easily interchanged. The Bikini has no personal growth, and instead of a discussion of costume and character portrayal it becomes an exercise in condemning one and praising the other. Again, if I do not ‘get’ the portrayal, please feel free to correct my ignorance. From reading your explanation and the play itself, I still feel something lacking from the purported purpose and the material I’ve read.

    Either way, these are two clothing items initially designed by men for women to wear to their liking. They are heavily cultured and can coexist, or exist in exclusivity. In that, I see the saint and whore theme.

    Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 3:12 am ¶

47. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

    http://deadamericandream.blogspot.com/2009/09/for-all-you-haters-regarding-burqa-and.html

    Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 12:04 am ¶

48. beata wrote:

    DIMA – Your response to the criticism of your work displays an arrogance that mimics the fatuity of your play. You’re clearly very young, and you’ve been dealing with alot of bs your whole life. But self-awareness is crucial to the artist and the activist. Trust.
    Your detractors on this thread aren’t ‘haters’, a hater would click on the caps and call you on being talentless and simple. Most of the criticism has been super polite, and instead of engaging you just deflect. It’s a shame. For racialicious, but mainly for you.

    Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 1:11 am ¶

49. ktrujillo wrote:

    Great response, beata, let me add that any artist/writer should be grateful when intelligent people take the time to engage and thoughtfully respond/critique their work. If your not trying to communicate with your piece…what’s the point? It really was just a monologue? If so you should have presented it as so.

    Your response reminded me so much of my daughter…but she’s 13.

    Your gifts are many but they will be squandered if you allow ego to destroy them.

    Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 10:40 am ¶

50. Sobia wrote:

    I have to say DIMA that your response to some of the comments here is quite unpalatable and, I’m sorry, but not very professional. I get that art is personal but if artists do not want any criticism then don’t put your art out there. If your art is out there then you’re going to have to realize that people are going to interpret it in different ways. Isn’t this what Racialicious is about anyways? Isn’t Racialicious, via their critiques, basically asking for more responsible media and art such that artists/creators understand that there will be many different ways (including racist ones) of reading a piece?

    As a Muslim woman I too interpreted much of the play similarly to the non-Muslims you claim just don’t get it. I enjoyed the play but I too felt that the bikini character did not have much depth. The play did seem biased toward the burqa although there was an attempt to balance out at the end. Nonetheless, the bikini still comes across as two-dimensional as opposed to burqa who was much more deep.

    I understand and have felt that anger when having my writing critiqued but I’ve learned that if you respond with respect and professionalism, very often you will be successful in getting your true message across.

    Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 11:43 am ¶

51. ourname wrote:

    Maybe because I’m a western feminist (although not a white one) I’m not sure I believe that every Muslim woman chooses to wear a burqa but MOST women in a bikini are choosing that garment for themselves. The lack of choice really invalidates the argument for me.

    Posted 22 Sep 2009 at 6:54 pm ¶

52. Sara wrote:

    “What about women who are NORMAL, like you and me? We are ignored and society refuses to acknowledge our existence.”

    Much like you ignore the existence of people who are genuinely trying to engage with you.

    I came back a week after I initally posted, hoping to see some form of conversation and discussion. Its such let down to come back to vitrol and spite.

    Its one thing to have written a controversial piece. Its another entirely to have the whole controversy focus on your responses to your audience. Try and keep that in mind.

    Posted 25 Sep 2009 at 3:19 am ¶

53. MJshah wrote:

    @ Montclair Mommy, “That is frightening to me and it is a real reminder of the danger of sexism and oppression of women in religion (and this extends WAY beyond Islam).”

    excuse me, what? this is the issue many of us muslim women have with non-muslim women, much of what is perpetrated in islamic countires IS NOT ISLAMIC but is done under the guise of islamic because of stupid people not knowing about the religion.

    “my desire to be open-minded fights against my desire that women be treated as equals before God and man (again: this extends WAY past Islam).” if you’re really open minded you’d bother to actually research things before commenting on them, after all when the prophet was asked who we should respect after the Almighty he said “your mother”. Islam teaches that heaven is at the feet of your mother and gives many rights to women. you’ve fallen into the classical trap of looking at muslim countries and saying “oh well look at how they treat their women, its obviously their religious beliefs” women are opressed in many societies.

    if you really care about muslim women, how about you STOP making judgements based on what a woman wears and actually TALK to her. the amount of times people have made judgements about me and what i *must* believe because i am a muslim is too many to count.

    ironially i am at this moment writing a piece about this for the site womanist musings, so i dont have to keep repeating myself on these sites.

    Posted 27 Sep 2009 at 6:14 pm ¶