Open Thread: Obama’s Healthcare Speech
by Latoya Peterson
This one is just for the politicos. Talk amongst yourselves.
Here’s some further reading:
Our collective failure to meet this challenge – year after year, decade after decade – has led us to a breaking point. Everyone understands the extraordinary hardships that are placed on the uninsured, who live every day just one accident or illness away from bankruptcy. These are not primarily people on welfare. These are middle-class Americans. Some can’t get insurance on the job. Others are self-employed, and can’t afford it, since buying insurance on your own costs you three times as much as the coverage you get from your employer. Many other Americans who are willing and able to pay are still denied insurance due to previous illnesses or conditions that insurance companies decide are too risky or expensive to cover.
As millions of Americans watched from home, Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) shouted at the president from his fifth-row seat: “You lie!”
Murmurs of “ooh” filled the stunned chamber. Nancy Pelosi’s chin dropped. Obama moved on to the next sentence in his speech, about how no federal money would be used to fund abortion. “Not true!” came another shout.
The Republican Response, Arriving a Little Early
As expected, Mr. Obama repeated his support for a government insurance plan to compete with the private sector, though he said he would consider alternatives to the “public option.”
He sketched out a vision for a plan in which it would be illegal for insurers to drop sick people or deny them coverage for pre-existing conditions, and in which every American would be required to carry health coverage, just as drivers must carry auto insurance.
Mr. Obama did embrace some fresh proposals. He announced a new initiative to create pilot projects intended to curb medical malpractice lawsuits, a cause important to physicians and Republicans.
Obama, Armed With Details, Says Health Plan Is Necessary
(Image Credit: CBS News)
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
atlasien wrote:
I’m one of the politicos but I didn’t watch this speech. Honestly, I’m too irritated with Obama right now. I’ll go back to watching his speeches when he starts fighting instead of uselessly appealing to bipartisanship. He needs to unleash hell on the Blue Dogs!
My Rep, Hank Johnson, is a member of the progressive caucus and prepared to vote against any healthcare bill that does not include the public option, and I support that. There’s been enough compromise, it’s time to stand ground.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:12 am ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:
I wish President Obama would have talked back at that rude Republican asshole.
Liberals need to stop being such wimps.
otherwise, the transcript of the speech I read, was quite good. what are others’ reactions on his speech? do you think he was clear on health-care reform?
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:25 am ¶
Sean wrote:
atlasian, President Obama’s speech yesterday was perhaps the harshest rebuke to the right-wing nut jobs and conspiracy theorists to date. He emphasized openness to new ideas, but made it clear that he “Will not waste time.” I agree that it’s time for Obama to take the gloves off. The GOP is just getting more blatant and bolder in their contempt, ostensibly for Obama’s “policies.”
Of course, some Republican asshat yelled out “You lie!” in the middle of it.
Groan….
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:30 am ¶
Iggles wrote:
@ atlasien
I hear ya! I skipped the speech because as Peter Parker’s landlord notes, “If your promises were crackers, my daughter would be fed.”
I’m glad the speech went over well, but he needs to show action and leadership. He sat back while the rethugs let loose the smears. He waffled on the public option which should not be subject to comprise. We already comprised it down from single payer. It’s time to stop placating the rethugs and blue dogs. He needs to crack that whip and get the renegade democrats in line. If he does, he has enough votes to push this thing through.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:31 am ¶
nathan wrote:
I read the whole speech. He spoke about the same lousy plan that’s been on the table. No call for anything else. And lots of conservative sounding rhetoric about individuals “sharing” responsibility by purchasing insurance, and about how insurance companies offer a “legitimate” service, and how we need more “competition.”
This is what happens when you have a government that, on both sides of the aisle, is controlled by corporate money.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:41 am ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:
As a supporter of women’s reproductive rights I was, as per usual, and as expected, incredibly disappointed.
And W.T.F., Joe “I love you Strom and you too George Allen” Wilson. I was hoping for some kind of graceful rhetorical shut down but alas there was none. That was conduct unbecoming a 2nd grader during story time let alone an elected official during a televised presidential fucking address. I suppose every political event will be turned into a feral town hall from here on out? Is that where we are now?
I have little hope for effective health care reform at the moment. The misinformation campaign has been dangerously successful and I don’t think people are even listening to what he’s saying anymore.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:50 am ¶
Irene M. wrote:
Who the hell interrupts the President on live television? What the fuck! You’re a congressman for fuck’s sake.
Sorry, I’ll post a more calm response later.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:56 am ¶
Evan wrote:
I think the Obama health care plan SUCKS! He is giving way too much power to private health insurance companies. Obama mentioned that insurance companies cannot deny people because of pre-existing conditions, cannot drop people from coverage if they get sick (i.e. cancer) and there will be no caps on coverage.
So how is an insurance corporation supposed to make money?????? The Insurance executives and their lobbyists are offering lukewarm support to the Obama plan. Which means…if this bill is good for the insurance companies, it must be bad for American citizens/taxpayers/patients. What kind of loopholes is Obama giving away to the insurance industry? What’s the catch, here?
We need a nationalized health system in this country where every citizen has easy health care access without the fear of bankruptcy. Single payer health care is the best option and I am so goddamn pissed that Obama and his corporate-Democrat cronies didn’t give this idea a CHANCE.
Boooooooooooooooo!
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 11:31 am ¶
curlyscales wrote:
Damn. I don’t want to be President.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 12:00 pm ¶
Nate wrote:
I’ll say it again. Adopt the french model! 70-80% reimburements through the state insurers (different insurers depending on the workforce sector -with both Union and Employer reps on the boards), with the rest either picked up a) out of pocket by the citizen b) private sector top up insurance or c) solidarity payments by the state for anyone retired, studying/retired or unable to work due to the severity of the illness.
Or there’s the australian approach -universal cover, single payer (for anythging out side of GP treament), funded by an income tax levy, with a solidarity premium levied on high income earners who don’t have private insurance (which is an individual tax deduction).
And for those concerned about all the perverting effects universal health cover has on the nation state, I’d hardly call Australia a hotbed of anti-american jesus hating communism (or anywhere near breaking a proud 70 year tradition of fighting every war the US has).
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 12:03 pm ¶
Iggles wrote:
I agree Evan. The insurance companies should be left out of the equation. When he was candidate he said HEALTH CARE was a right. Not Health INSURANCE! There’s a major difference. The minute he started talking about health insurance reform I knew we were going to get screwed.
Insurance companies are the middlemen who make money by driving up procedure costs, administrative costs and denying 22% of all health insurance claims! The employ people to hunt for pre-existing conditions and reward executives for denying coverage. That should tell you that they’re not on our side! How can you say health care is a right and then lie in bed with corporations who make money off of sickness and death? You know, if you lie with dogs don’t be surprised to wake up with fleas!
The SC congressman is a disrespectful IDIOT! I was floored at the hubris of that jerk! He should be censured.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 12:11 pm ¶
oddrid wrote:
To everyone who hates Obama’s plan because it isn’t a single payer system:
Obama is an incrementalist and a moderate, y’all. There’s just absolutely no way he would have gone for the single payer system. It would be too radical a change. America’s political climate is far, far too conservative to even dream of implementing such a thing.
I think it’s the best he can do, considering who he is and who he is dealing with. And I think it’s going to pass.
(By the way, ideally I favor the single payer system, I’m just looking at this realistically).
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 12:43 pm ¶
deathblossom wrote:
. What kind of loopholes is Obama giving away to the insurance industry? What’s the catch, here?
The catch is to make having health insurance mandatory and fine everyone in America who is uninsured. Since the insurance will now be mandatory, companies will have enough excess income from the well and the young to take care of the sick and the elderly. Supposedly this fine will only damage the people who can afford healthcare, but go without. Let’s all hope “affordability” isn’t judged anything like it is at the college level and that there public option survives to go along with this crap.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 12:57 pm ¶
sr wrote:
Not only was Joe Wilsion a jerk, he was dead wrong. Section 246 of H.R. 3600 prohibits undocumented aliens from receiving subsidies under the public option. Sections 141-143 appoints and impels a Health Commissioner to enforce that section, among other things.
Alas, a majority of the american right will still insist that health care will be afforded to “illegals” no matter what facts you throw at them.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 1:13 pm ¶
Slush wrote:
@SR – a total jerk, but not absolutely dead wrong, because he represents the swath of Americans that don’t want undocumented immigrants to get any health care, not just health insurance (an important distinction that someone highlighted above). Those people don’t even want immigrants to get treated in the emergency room. Which I can’t describe as anything less than psychotic and hateful.
But fortunately I don’t think that idea is taken very seriously by policy makers. It’s contrary to a lot of treaties, I believe, as well as being an absolutely terrible public health disaster.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 2:11 pm ¶
ty wrote:
Hey Evan heres an idea for you, why dont you come down to Texas where I am and be a single payer supporter like me and run your mouth like you just did. I completely understand the presidents predicament. You have nut jobs all around you that are attacking you from being everything from an illegal alien to a nazi. I am getting tired of standing up for a single payer in a place like Texas while you scream at me and the president for not doing enough.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 2:41 pm ¶
Brandon wrote:
It’s too easy to be critical. I don’t think I idealize Obama, but there are political realities.
What I say was a last-ditch effort to extend a hand to Republicans and do true bipartisan work. He offered them a SAFE way to get on board. They seem to have refused.
It’s my hope that this was all calculated. It’s my hope that this clearly signals to Dems that bipartisan politics are dead.
It’s also worth noting that he NEEDS a political victory on this one. This is an ambitious legislative term… he needs something that people view as a win.
And I wish that people wouldn’t be so hard on his lack of leadership in this realm, either. Read the constitution… the legislature makes laws. The president has no constitutional role in formulating policy.
And finally… don’t lose sight of the behind the scenes stuff. It’s easy to think that Congressional votes and treaties are everything… but Eric Holder might just be the best part of this administration. And I still have high hopes for our newest Supreme Court member. Not everything is bleak.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 3:49 pm ¶
Brandon wrote:
Sorry… third paragraph. Not “what I say” but “what I saw”.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 3:50 pm ¶
Brandon wrote:
Wow… I meant my second paragraph. I think the time to stop posting is now.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 3:51 pm ¶
Joy wrote:
Wow, I guess representative Wilson forgot where he was and who he was speaking to. WOW. It is amazing to me that an elected public official doesn’t respect the office of the President.
That being said I really hope this works to Obama and health care reform supporters good by shaking some of the Republicans’ support after people seeing how out of control some of their views are (and tactics have been re: town halls).
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 6:24 pm ¶
brownstocking wrote:
The repubs were really tacky last night. I had so much fun livetweeting, though, so I don’t have too much to add.
I, too, would like to see gloves come off in the WH. I’m still steaming about Van Jones.
I did my part, and donated to Rob Miller and wrote my Congressman, but mine is Sam Farr and he’s THE BOMB! I know he’ll fight for me.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 7:20 pm ¶
Free wrote:
co-sign oddrid.
The French system is fabulous but the US just isn’t ready for it. Conservatives are still fighting the Cold War with their communism and socialist rhetoric. Most citizens are misinformed or uninformed and can’t and/or won’t understand the merits of Public Option, Single-Payer, and don’t even mention French.
Joe Wilson is member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group that lists Patrick Buchanan and Trent Lott among its members. Joe Wilson might be a neo-Confederate.
His wiki page is now locked due to vandalism. Here’s a screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/58372028@N00/3904891239/sizes/o
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 8:05 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
@Brandon: “And I wish that people wouldn’t be so hard on his lack of leadership in this realm, either. Read the constitution… the legislature makes laws.”
Read this link about LBJ and how he got stuff done, in a harsher environment than Obama’s facing.
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 8:23 pm ¶
Freakzeek wrote:
I’am the only one who just want’s this racism/healthcare/tension among the citizenry Poweder keg that is america to just explode?
I got the feeling something big’s gonna happen soon in the future
Posted 10 Sep 2009 at 10:54 pm ¶
Jess wrote:
I have to say that while I would have loved for the administration to back single-payer, I also knew that just wasn’t going to happen.
That said, let’s remember how radical a public option is. The insurance companies are afraid of it because it would open up the process of how decisions about care and funding are made. That’s huge. Think of this: you never really know how your insurer makes decisions. There is absolutely no transparency whatsoever. The public option changes all that, because as a government-run entity they have to be open about it.
Also, remember – GEICO was once essentially a public option. (It was the insurance company for civil servants). TIAA-CREF was similar. If a public option does as well as GEICO, that is the death knell for the health insurance industry. And the insurers know it.
There is a lot of support for the public option. So all y’all gotta do is make phone calls.
Really. Call. Jam the freakin’ phone line. Got a blue dog in your district? Bug his ass. Make his staff unhappy the telephone was invented. Tell them you will vote for them again if they push the public option, and not unless they do. If they are a different party tell them you will have all your friends vote for them if they back the public option. That kind of stuff. (The staffer will ask for your zip code, so it helps if you live int he relevant district).
Why? Because it works. Every phone call you make is like 10 letters (there are a number of studies that show Congresscritters respond to phone calls more because they figure X number of people felt the same way but wouldn’t pick up the phone or write). In fact, have a whole lot of friends write postcards too. Costs 30 cents and every one is a voter.
Ask your friends. Make a phone call. Really.
More to altasien’s point, tho, while LBJ was able to accomplish a lot, there are certain realities that are different.
Much of the infrastructure he had simply doesn’t exist anymore, and with it the leverage he used to have. Political alignments have changed pretty radically since then, too. Remember, the South was a Democratic stronghold then, and a black person voting Republican wasn’t as unthinkable. It was a combination of the Civil Rights Act and the “Southern Strategy” that changed that, and if you look at a map it’s pretty striking. But Obama is old enough to remember when many African-Americans voted Republican. (They were a solid constituency for them in the South especially).
But that’s why it’s so important that people push from below. Obama isn’t all that progressive. But if he thinks he doesn’t need republicans, then so be it. Politicians have only as much oomph as their supporters do. So you have to be loud.
Think of why the wingnuts get airtime. They are loud and out there. Well, y’all gotta be doing the same thing.
Posted 11 Sep 2009 at 7:49 am ¶
PatrickInBeijing wrote:
Sorry I missed the speech. (Confession, it was probably available on C-Span).
I am for single payer. It would be nice to feel covered by something when i visit the states to see my family. Sigh.
I always vacillate on Obama and health care. Part of me thinks he is setting everyone up and cheering when the left attacks him. Then when he finally slams in a government supported plan (public option), many will believe he really didn’t want to do it, and was forced to, HeHeHe.
Part of me thinks he’ll let it slide to get something and declare victory and move on. Sigh.
Beyond him, there are not enough Democratic Senators speaking for a public option. All we hear are the so-called moderates who got elected by 10 old white guys in joe’s bar and tavern in the states of less people than a college campus here….
But, then i remember that the media is jerking me around, and distorting coverage like hell, and i wonder what is really going on and if we’ll ever know…. sigh….
The Republicans showed total disrespect to Obama during the speech (I hear). Not only Wilson, but a number of them yelled out, or held up signs or played their blackberries.
They know they can get away with this disrespect because 1) the media won’t call them on it 2) THEIR voters approve.
And why do their voters approve totally disrespecting the President? Because he is Black. Really. I can’t believe they could of or would have done this to Carter or LBJ, or even Clinton (whom they hated as much, but treated better).
The thing is, the Republicans know that their core voters are so blinded by racial hatred, that disrespecting the President (even when he sounds moderate) is EXPECTED of them. They do this because their base demands it. And their base demands it because they still can’t deal with having a Black president. Just can’t accept it.
That said, my take is that Obama wins, he will get something he can call health care reform, which will be better than what we have now (if not good enough), and he will declare victory, and be seen as the victor. Polls will rise.
Meanwhile, the idea that “illegal immigrants” (how about “undocumented workers”) should not be covered is coin of the realm. WTF. This is “okay” racism in America today, apparently, even if it is sickening. And the media, and most people buy into the idea. Which is not even rational (I could write pages on this, and have done so over the years (not only me!!)).
And the so-called progressives sit silently while undocumented workers are scapegoated. Shame, shame, shame on all of us.
Posted 11 Sep 2009 at 8:26 am ¶
Brandon wrote:
@ atlasien:
Thanks for the link. It takes me back to my college days of studying Neustadt.
An interesting perspective, with some real merits. But I think it’s worth noting that LBJ was a master legislator. He wasn’t playing president so much as Senate Majority Leader. He had HUGE legislative experience, including leadership positions.
It was also a different time. LBJ was actually known for showing his penis to people… seriously. I don’t see these bullying tactics working in 2009.
But… Obama and the Dems got a mandate in the last election, and they don’t seem to realize. There is a lack of leadership here. And maybe Obama is too idealistic, thinking that people can work out their differences on their own. I liked the part of his speech where he seemed to scold Congress.
But if we’re looking for a staredown like in the pictures of LBJ on that link…
Well, if Joe Wilson didn’t get it… no one is getting that treatment.
Posted 11 Sep 2009 at 8:40 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
@Brandon: “LBJ was actually known for showing his penis to people… seriously.”
LOL… is it evil of me to imagine Obama using this tactic? Maybe some of the more recalcitrant Senators would just have heart attacks on the spot and we’d be clear with a filibuster-proof majority.
@Patrick: Yes, the depreciation of undocumented immigrants is really morally repugnant. And I do feel complicit and guilty about it. Right now I’m just feeling in a “healthcare at all costs” mode, but it’s important to keep those costs in mind… they are real people who deserve better.
Posted 11 Sep 2009 at 10:11 am ¶
nathan wrote:
Does anyone else find it sad that undocumented immigrants are, once again, a lightning rod in these kinds of debates? I find it very troubling that people on both sides of the aisle, elected officials and regular citizens, are using the health care debate to bring out the same old, tired anti-immigrant comments that always seem to generalize beyond the undocumented.
Posted 11 Sep 2009 at 10:26 am ¶
CDF wrote:
Good catch oddrid! SOME areas of this country are ready while you got others still stuck in the stone age…as evident with Joe the Rep…
Posted 11 Sep 2009 at 1:07 pm ¶
Jess wrote:
Just so everyone realizes, btw -undocumented people are already treated in ERs anyway. The GOP is pulling a rather afactual problem out of its ass here.
The bill as it is now says you won’t fund treatment for people not here legally. But that’s already the case as they aren’t covered now. And other laws in place (as well as several treaties) say you have to treat everybody who walks into the ER. Period. So the whole “illegal aliens are covered” thing is horseshit. It’s not one whit different from what we have already.
Posted 12 Sep 2009 at 8:01 am ¶
April wrote:
@Jess:
“Also, remember – GEICO was once essentially a public option. (It was the insurance company for civil servants). TIAA-CREF was similar. If a public option does as well as GEICO, that is the death knell for the health insurance industry. And the insurers know it.”
This is actually incorrect. While GEICO was established to provide insurance for government employees (the “GE” in GEICO), it has always been a private company and has never been attached to the government. So, no, it was in no way equivalent to a public option.
Posted 12 Sep 2009 at 12:59 pm ¶
Jess wrote:
@April – true, GEICO was a private company, but it was chock full of implicit guarantees from the government at the time, so you’re right it wasn’t what we’d think of as a public option that way, but I’d argue that it was a de facto publicly-owned company (much as a big chunk of our financial system is now, heh).
In one sense, AT&T is another example — in exchange for a monopoly there was what amounted to a government guarantee on the company’s debt, as well as very strict rate of return rules. That is, AT&T had to return a certain percentage on its capital. That in turn meant it had to invest a certain minimum amount in capital expenditure, which is why the phone system in the US is as good as it is. The fact that AT&T could be broken up at all is in part a testament to the success of that monopoly — not a single one of the “independent” phone companies around today would be there without all that copper laid down. It’s the reason you have — and expect — wireline phone service no matter where you are, even in the most remote villages of Nevada or Wyoming.
(People often forget that the Internet is predicated on everyone in the country having a phone line, and in 1990 cell phones were rare. It wasn’t until very recently that doing anything internet-related over a cell phone was practical at all).
In health insurance, one could certainly envision a similar model. In exchange for a monopoly, a company has to cover everybody, and provide a certain rate of return. This actually accomplishes several things at once, both in a financial sense (It makes the system pay for itself) and in terms of innovation – again, see AT&T. Bell Labs is responsible for more than half the technology you are using to read this, and possibly all of it if you only consider what was invented there as opposed to what was later improved on.
I can think of many areas of basic research and innovation in administration that could be funded in just this way in health care as well. Especially if you had the insurance company funding some equipment in hospitals and counted that as capital expenditure.
Anyhow, point taken.
Posted 13 Sep 2009 at 6:20 pm ¶
SeanH wrote:
It’s kind of hard for me to see, from a British perspective, what Joe Wilson did wrong, here (apart from being stupid). No party leader would be able to get through a speech in Parliament without being jeered and heckled and booed by the opposition. I think the whole “respect for the office” thing is kind of creepy in its authoritarianism.
Posted 14 Sep 2009 at 3:27 am ¶
Slush wrote:
Someone at the Washington Post made a good insight about health care for undocumented workers — we require employers to cover some or all of employee health insurance. Unless, of course, they hire undocumented workers, because then they won’t have to. Talk about a wage to further drive down wages and employee benefits.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 3:11 pm ¶
Slush wrote:
Sorry, I meant ‘talk about a way’ not ‘wage.’ Getting ahead of myself.
Posted 15 Sep 2009 at 3:12 pm ¶