DISGRASIAN OF THE WEAK! Asian-American Women Most Likely to Attempt Suicide

by Guest Contributor Jen, originally published at Disgrasian

Asians love being the best. But here’s one superlative we don’t love–Asian-American women are most likely to think about and attempt suicide, more than all other Americans, according to a new University of Washington study.

The study, published in the current issue of the Archives of Suicide Research, found that 15.93 percent of U.S.-born Asian-American women have contemplated suicide in their lifetime, as opposed to 13.5 percent for all Americans, and that suicide attempts among us were also higher than the general population, at 6.29 percent vs. 4.6 percent. It did not attempt to explain why Asian-American women have more suicidal tendencies, however:

It is unclear why Asian-Americans who were born in the United States have higher rates of thinking about and attempting suicide,said Aileen Duldulao, lead researcher of the study.

But if you’re an Asian-American woman who has struggled with depression her whole life like I have, it’s not unclear to you, is it? You don’t need this study, published in 2007, to tell you that we own some of the highest rates of depression and suicide because we’re pushed to achieve. Or this one, published in 2008, to tell you that Asian-Americans are less likely than any other group to seek treatment for mental health disorders. You know this already. You know it in your bones. Personally, not scientifically.

You know it because, growing up, there was no such thing as “depression.” Because feeling blue always had something to do with you “not trying hard enough.” And feeling like you wanted to yell at somebody or start crying in class over nothing was the result of “not having enough self-control.” And wanting to feel better simply involved “doing better.” How could you be unhappy when your father hugged you? (His father beat him with a stick.) How could you feel sad when you had your own bedroom, your own phone, call-waiting for Christ’s sake? (Your mother had her ancestral home stolen from her, pillaged, plundered, sold for scrap. Top that.) What is this “therapy”? What are these “drugs”? If you really think you have problems, could you please keep quiet about them? Better not to advertise your own failure. Best to keep silent, lock up those feelings in shame, and, while you’re at it, lose a few pounds, your moonface is starting to look fat.

I don’t really know how to end this post without sounding like a PSA. I’ve been in therapy for 12 years, and I’ve been medicated for all kinds of things–anxiety, insomnia, depression. At times, I think my family has viewed me as “the crazy one” because I’ve been open with them and the rest of the world about how I’m dealing with my depression. And you know what? I don’t give a fuck. On the subject of mental health, I not only talk, I tend to ramble, because keeping silent and being ashamed of it, that’s really the crazy thing.

[Science Daily: US-born Asian-American Women More Likely To Think About, Attempt Suicide, Study Finds]

(Image Credit: Angry Asian Girl)

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  1. Study: Asian-American women most likely to think about, attempt suicide « jumpstarting a life with a little spark to the head on 27 Aug 2009 at 11:04 pm

    [...] friend Tom sent me a fascinating blog post from Racialicious.com. According to a new research by University of Washington (published in the Archives of Suicide [...]

  2. the fifth anniversary of my suicide attempt « jumpstarting a life with a little spark to the head on 28 Aug 2009 at 12:44 pm

    [...] my last post, I put up a study about Asian-American women and suicide. While I could relate to much of what was written, I have to say that this suicide attempt had [...]

Comments

  1. Wolfie wrote:

    I feel that comment about the “not trying hard enough” or “not having enough self-control” and I think it’s where ableism rears it’s ugly head too. As an epileptic person I’m told those exact things about my epilepsy. I think somehow when disability or mental illness isn’t “seen” it turns into a battle of self control or will power where the disabled/person with mental illness is seen as not just not being “strong enough”.

    also you might want to check your stats on the likeliness to think about or commit suicide “more than all other americans” I know trans people have a %30 suicide rate with %50 attempting suicide before they turn 20. enjoyed the post, thanks.

  2. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

    But “Asian American” is such a general term. I am curious which ethnic group is most affected by this… Chinese Americans, Korean Americans, or Indian Americans? The list can go on. By the way, does this study include South Asians?

  3. atlasien wrote:

    The expectations for young Asian-American women (from family, and from the outside as well) are… crazy.

    We get a constant stream of “quit yer bitching” from so many potential sources:

    - parents
    - Asian-American men (”YOU’RE the ones who are super-popular sex symbols”)
    - white people (”but you people are all doctors and lawyers”
    - other people of color (”you people are just white people version 2.0″)
    - non-American Asians (”your problem is that you’re a lazy weak ungrateful American”)

    It takes courage to speak out in the face of all the pressure to shut up.

  4. caps wrote:

    Wow. I am not Asian, but I can definitely see myself and my family in your post. I was acutally saying “yes! yes!” At pretty much every sentence here. I wonder how true these things are for other immigrants, specially immigrants that come from impoverished backgrounds or poor countries with very traditional values. I was treated for depression in College and met quite a few Asian-American male students (mostly Chinese, actually) who were also battling depression and dealt with incredible pressure to succeed from their parents. There was actually one male Chinese student who was found dead on graduation day and it was speculated that he took his own life because of fear of poor academic performance. That was so eye-opening for me. He wasn’t failing or anything, he was a good student overall, his loss seemed so tragic and unnecessary. I also had a female Taiwanese classmate who had pretty bad Bipolar disorder but who kept it secret from most people and never told her professors even when it affected her academic performance. She wound up attending a low tier law school at her mother’s urging–she didn’t want to be a lawyer–and from my conversations with her it seemed pretty clear that her mom was pulling a lot of the strings that controlled her academic decisions and her course of treatment. She was in her mom’s health insurance and her mom didn’t want her to go to therapy or something, she only took meds and told people she had a “Thyroid problem”. Our issues with our parents were pretty similar, but I definitely saw how her mother’s attempts at keeping up appearances actually harmed her daughter in many ways.

  5. Lita wrote:

    I know that there is a disproportionate number of south asian women killing themselves and self harming in the uk: http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/reprint/8/6/418.pdf

  6. Sobia wrote:

    “You know it because, growing up, there was no such thing as “depression.” Because feeling blue always had something to do with you “not trying hard enough.””

    Absolutely! It’s the same for South Asians. I think this has to do with the fact that we tend to be more collectivist cultures where we are supposed to rely on others for happiness. Others’ happiness is our happiness. If elements in our social lives are “healthy” than so should we be. Depression is only valid and understandable, therefore, when our social world is “unhealthy” – ie losing an income, losing a loved one, family tensions, etc. And then, we are supposed to rely on the support of our family to get through it.

    Things are starting to change though. I’ve noticed more awareness of depression and it’s various causes and catalysts now and more of an appreciation for them. So hopefully there will now begin to be a more nuanced view of depression and anxiety.

  7. Yuko (emma_zero) wrote:

    This article angrily addresses the condition under people of Japan live today as I see it. This is part of what I’m writing about in my blog.

    I assume that women are more susceptible to depression, because the room they are allowed by the culture to explore themselves in, is even smaller than one for men. It’s amazing how cultural beliefs and values are so strongly present in those who fled their country to come to the US.

    In Japan, the number of people plagued with debilitating depression among young generation is rising rapidly. And from where I stand, the nation or the small communities within the nation is in denial of how dysfunctional the traditional value systems have become today.

    Thank you for shedding a light on this subject.

  8. atlasien wrote:

    @Yuko: I know the suicide rates for Japan are very high (they’re also very high in Korea) but I don’t think the factors are quite the same.

    Studies of suicide in the US show that American-born Asians have higher suicide rates than comparable Asians who were not born in the US.

    And globally, the countries with the highest suicide rates are NOT Asian… they’re Eastern European. I’m bringing that up because there’s a widely-held stereotype that Asians are especially suicidal and don’t value their own lives.

    This high rate is not solely the influence of collectivist culture. It’s not solely family pressure. It’s not solely racism and it’s not solely misogyny. It’s a really complicated mixture of factors.

  9. Sobia wrote:

    @ Yuko (emma_zero):

    “the nation or the small communities within the nation is in denial of how dysfunctional the traditional value systems have become today.”

    I’m not going to speak in regards to Japanese culture as I am not a part of it, however, I find this statement quite problematic.

    Traditional value systems have not become dysfunctional. All value systems have problems with them, whether they be traditional or otherwise. And all value systems have positive elements as well. To label traditional value systems as dysfunctional, in my opinion, is not only offensive, but also inaccurate. It also places “modern” value systems in a superior position, which they often do not deserve. After all, it can be the isolation of a “modern” value system that can lead to loneliness and depression among many living in North America. There are pros and cons to both.

    Also, I always find myself getting my back up when people speak of immigrants as having “fled” their homeland as if they were fleeing some danger. Many immigrants don’t flee their homelands but rather simply make a choice to move to another country leaving behind, very often, a perfectly comfortable and safe life.

  10. Bo wrote:

    I really have issues with this study. High % of AA women who contemplate suicide does not equate committing suicide. Also AAs are a small pool of minorities so the higher than average 6.29% of suicide attempts can be skewed.

    I’m not in denial of the study results – they are interesting but the study was conducted poorly. They are merely statistics gathered from questionnaires. There is investigations into the REASONS why AA women contemplate/commit suicide. It could be that AA women are more contemplative but beliefs/intentions does always match our actions.

    Also, PRESSURE is not a good enough reason for why there are high suicide rates. Pressure is a mask for other reasons like poor family support, mental health seeking, self-diagnosis etc.

    Final note, although AA women have higher suicide rates I’m sure the stats for prescription drug abuse are lower. So maybe less coping mechanisms (healthy and unhealthy) may be a factor.

  11. n wrote:

    Yikes. I can relate, thats for sure. I have a friend from S.E. Asia and I do know that she’s pretty stuck. Caught between a crappy husband, a foreign culture and a home culture that does not support her choices or needs.

  12. Yuko (emma_zero) wrote:

    @atlasien  
    Thank you for your clarification. I’d like people who read Jen’s article and my comment know, that I for one am not trying to exclude all other factors and possible causes that are not mentioned here. I am bringing up the issues I had been personally exposed to.

    I have a feeling about one of the reasons why women of Asian descent who are born here may have higher tendency to commit suicide. I think it’s possible that they feel less hopeful because of exposure to different way of living here. People of Japan are not exposed as much to free thinking and independent living. The cultural environment protects then from feeling utterly different. They may think well, if everyone else is living with it then it must be OK. They stop questioning. I’m not saying that’s healthy either, but it helps them cope.

    Now this is just my assumption. But it comes from my own personal experiences.

    “This high rate is not solely the influence of collectivist culture. It’s not solely family pressure. It’s not solely racism and it’s not solely misogyny. It’s a really complicated mixture of factors.” I am in total agreement on this. I am merely focusing on cultural influence, or social polarization.

  13. atlasien wrote:

    @Bo: there have been other studies that confirm the high suicide rate, most notably this one in 2007.

    The two age groups most at risk are women age 15-24 and women over 65. The suicide rate for Asian-American women in other age groups are just average, I think.

  14. Yuko (emma_zero) wrote:

    @sobia

    I see that my statements offended you in many ways and I regret that. I am sure many have felt the same way so I thank you for letting your opinion known. I declare that my first comment here were not accurate. I am aware that I left many factors out, such as the positive effect of traditional culture, as if they don’t exist. But it doesn’t mean that I don’t see those factors I didn’t mention.

    I can fully understand that you were also offended by the the word “fled”, that seemed suggest that I assume all people who came to the US did run away from something horrible. That is wrong and I actually thought about it before I posted the comment. I should have listened to myself more carefully and edited it. I projected my own personal history, since I did finally discovered after 30 years of living here that I indeed flee the environment I was born into. The word I should have used instead is “left”.

    I thank you for helping me be more aware of what I’m actually conveying in my writing.

    Lastly, I don’t believe there is a single answer to anything, perhaps in contrary to the impression that I gave with my first comment. What people call “modern values”, which I’m not very clear on, certainly is not an exception to the rule in my mind.

  15. filipinaz wrote:

    @Bo — There are always limitations with these studies. I think the point of the study was to contribute to the amount of information (there is so little) we have about Asian Ams and suicidal behaviors. Even our own communities are in denial that this is a problem.

    True, contemplation and attempt to not always entail actual suicde. But do you know how desperate and sad people have to get to get to that point? I’ve seen it in so many Asian American sisters and the consequences are long term.

    Bottom line is that we are talking about this. I’m grateful to the Digrasian piece and the study for that.

  16. filipinaz wrote:

    Oh yeah, I think there are qualitative studies on the WHY as to why Asian Am women are more likely to think about suicide and attempt. Check out Eliza Noh’s work.
    Its hard to capture that data using surveys, as in the study conducted.

  17. m. wrote:

    I may get hated on for this comment, but I couldn’t help thinking if this study included Native Americans, I’m not so sure the results would be the same. Studies including Native Americans are few and far between, but I’ve read that Native youth are actually more likely to attempt (or succeed in) committing suicide than any other Americans. Depression, displacement and dispossession, intergenerational trauma, substance abuse and PTSD are all big factors. I can’t find the links, but I know that Native youth suicides also happen to beat out the national rate. It’s one of the leading causes of death on our reservations/reserves. Of course, we are never brought up in mental health studies – we’re not part of the “general population” and all that.
    Either way, depression’s crushing enough…but it’s a killer when you can’t get help.

  18. mile wrote:

    I’m not Asian, but I saw myself in this too. I’ve never been suicidal, but I have been depressed. And my father wonders how can I be unhappy when he grew up poor and had given me all these things, the biggest room in the house, expensive vacations, electronics, etc. How could I be sad about him hitting me once or twice with a belt when his mother and father (just as you said) beat him with switches? And despite the fact that his sister is a psychologist and that his eldest daughter too went to therapy, he doesn’t believe in it, doesn’t cooperate with it (I can’t say I’m the greatest patient either though). And my mother telling me that I’m just trying to avoid people and I need to open myself up more.

    Anyway, on another forum I frequent, after the recent incident of a female Asian American undergrad at MIT immolating herself, we were discussing Asian Americans and suicide, so I felt this was an apt post.

  19. TN wrote:

    I’m not American but I am Asian and female. I have depression and am on medication and pay a decent (read, a lot) sum to see a psychologist regularly. My mother can’t believe I would *waste* so much money on medicine and on a person that provides a service rather than a tangible product. She’s embarrassed that I admit to having a mental disorder. Oh yeah, exact same situation with my younger sister and brother. You’d think she’d put depression + family + maybe genetics together but she just claims that we’re over sensitive and *too* westernised and reliant on *external* help ie. and we give the *outside* too much money (medicine, therapy) rather than keep it in the family bank blah blah blah *sigh*

  20. Anonymous wrote:

    As an Asian-Canadian woman (Chinese ancestry) who has seasonal affective disorder but took a while to find out, and in the process gone to see various psychotherapists, I’ll comment that I’m sceptical when I read it’s all about us being silent and shameful about it. It’s not like I ever blamed myself. When I noticed that I was doing fine in the summer and then my energy started going downhill in the winter, I did research on UV light lamps and wondered what I could do to keep the right chemicals in check when the winter season rolled around. I was pretty proactive about it.

    It was when I started visiting white psychotherapists and psychiatrists that I started experiencing more stress on top of my already-existing condition. It seemed to me that people were misdiagnosing me according to their own personal agendas, and my treatment seemed to be only a second priority to them. For instance, a high school counselor denied that I was depressed and insinuated that I was faking it – and my white psychotherapist refused to sign a letter, after a talk with my high school counselor. It was one of those letters a student needs if they skipped a test or an assignment due to an illness. For me, it was rather important.

    At a later date, when I had rather valid suspicions that I was under investigation for what I suspected was a mistake, a white psychiatrist refused to admit that my scenario could have actually happened. He simply said I was schizophrenic. When I said it wouldn’t be the first time a POC was falsely accused of something, and that such paranoia wasn’t particularly irrational, he explicitly said that he disagreed. This was a respected professional, and yet he was able to get away with simply shutting down the conversation and trying to push pills at me (in addition to looking far more nervous that I was).

    From my experience, it seems that medical professionals will only treat me if and when it’s convenient for them.

  21. TN wrote:

    @atlasien wrote:
    - other people of color (”you people are just white people version 2.0″)

    amen to that… do you get other PoC giving you looks of disbelief when you say you’ve experienced racism too? *palms head*

  22. TN wrote:

    @Sobia wrote:
    Also, I always find myself getting my back up when people speak of immigrants as having “fled” their homeland as if they were fleeing some danger. Many immigrants don’t flee their homelands but rather simply make a choice to move to another country leaving behind, very often, a perfectly comfortable and safe life.

    You still have to remember that some people did have to flee. My own family FLED from their homeland, a place they loved with their all but was left in tatters after a long and devastating war. They left with the clothes on their back literally, no paperwork, no belongings, nothing, not even much food. If everything was safe and comfortable, my family would still be living in the lands of their ancestors. My family and many of their people were first displaced when that war began before my parents were even born and then they were displaced yet again when that war “ended” when they had reached their adulthood.

  23. ashlynn wrote:

    Thank you for this post. It’s another contribution to breaking down the idea that Asian-Americans have it so great. I am not Asian-American myself, but my sister and godmother are Chinese, I have several close Asian friends and colleagues, and unfortunately I’ve witnessed firsthand how damaging it can be to be that one Asian kid who wasn’t so good at math, or the chubby loner instead of the sex kitten that’s expected of many Asian women. Unfortunately, inclusion into a mainstream society that doesn’t even cater to most has terrible effects; I appreciate that this article shows that in a personal manner.

    The very culture that does tend to suppress is almost equally uplifting, I would say though. Asian American success is due to an amazing work ethic of families not giving up on hope and ambition, though there’s certainly a dark side to that as well.

  24. Sobia wrote:

    @ Yuko:

    Thank you for the clarification. Much appreciated.

  25. GueraLola wrote:

    I recall a similar study in which women who suffer most from depression were Young Latina women and Older Asian- American Womenhttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/08/nyregion/08suicide.html according to the NY times ” The problem is fueled by cultural and linguistic isolation, the stress of immigration and a shortage of psychiatric and counseling services, according to advocates who attended the hearing in Lower Manhattan.” It sad , that a lot of these women are some cannot find help. Oh , on the “What is this “therapy”?” I meet a lot people of different races who looked down on Psychology.

  26. Urban Suburbinite wrote:

    @Wolfie who said
    “I feel that comment about the “not trying hard enough” or “not having enough self-control” and I think it’s where ableism rears it’s ugly head too. As an epileptic person I’m told those exact things about my epilepsy. I think somehow when disability or mental illness isn’t “seen” it turns into a battle of self control or will power where the disabled/person with mental illness is seen as not just not being “strong enough”.”

    I feel you on this so much! I’ve been told the same thing about my ADHD. My grandmother still insists that there is no such thing.

    Topic- Do you think it is also due to many Asian parents forcing their children to study for occupations based on salary rather than happiness or even talent/ability? I hate to say it, but none of my Asian friends majored in a field that they were actually interested in. They studied what their parents determined would make good money. I have one friend who is not so good at business studies (his parents want him to take over one of their businesses) and actually loves marine biology. So he studies business and drinks himself silly on the weekends to cope.

    I have a coworker who is Korean, and her son is excellent at basketball (State championship and all). Plus he really loves it. She wants him to quit so that he has more time to study for SATs and so that he can take advanced level courses (AP). She wants him to be an engineer. She has never asked him if HE wanted to be an engineer. Lately she has been saying at work that he acts depressed and has no friends.

    Is it that they think that they can make a person good at something they are not? Is this a common idea in Asia?

  27. TN wrote:

    @Urban Suburbinite wrote:
    Is it that they think that they can make a person good at something they are not? Is this a common idea in Asia?

    I can’t speak for all of Asia… but in my family, you do what is best for the family’s future ie. having enough money to take care of the elders (grandparents, parents) – you don’t work for *yourself*, you work to ensure you can take care of the oldies.

  28. atlasien wrote:

    @Urban Suburbinite: the concept is that a job is primarily for money, family support and social status. Self-actualization is not on the list.

    The idea that a job should be something you enjoy and that fulfills you as a person is really common in the U.S. If you look at television shows, aside from “The Office”, they consist almost entirely of people who enjoy their jobs and have their lives and identities wrapped up in them (police dramas, medical dramas, legal dramas, supernatural investigator dramas, extreme fishing dramas, etc.).

    Honestly, when it comes to be being happy, I don’t see a big quantitative difference between the U.S. view of the work and the more typical Asian-country view of work. Both produce endless amounts of misery.

    A lot of students graduate thinking they’ll find a job that fulfills them as a person, and provides self-actualization, only to discover that those jobs are incredibly rare, or pay so poorly that they can’t support a family on them. Then they end up compromising and becoming an insurance adjuster or an x-ray technician or a shoe salesperson or a restaurant assistant manager, and live in simmering resentment for the rest of their lives wishing they had a cool meaningful job like all the ones that people on television have.

    If you’ve internalized the idea that a job is only for money and status, not happiness, you’re less likely to be disappointed. You’re also more likely to be trapped in a job and field you hate, because making any sort of change would risk too much.

    I think a lot of Asian-Americans have internalized both> approaches to jobs, so we get the potential for misery from both ends. There’s pressure from family to get the social status job, and pressure from greater society to get the self-actualization job.

    I’m lucky in that my father is very anti-materialistic and never pressured me in any way to get a high-paying job or study something I didn’t to study. What I’m talking about is more of a general tendency that isn’t going to hold true for every Asian family. But he did always emphasize that you didn’t study because it was fun or fulfilling, you were supposed to study because study was hard work, and working hard was a fundamental universal unavoidable imperative. To this day, instead of saying “goodbye” to me on the phone, he says “work hard!” or “work work work!”

  29. Heather wrote:

    I’m wondering if the higher rates of suicide among American-born Asians is less about Asian cultures and more about the complex interplay of the American and Asian value systems that Asian-Americans have to balance while trying not to lose themselves.

    Being seen as the “model minority” (ugh) might make it appear as though assimilation has been easy for Asians. But, as with other immigrant groups, the struggle between adopting the majority culture and the desire to pass on your own culture has not been easy for us either.

    atlasien mentioned the internalizing of the dual approaches to jobs and money, but I think you can take it farther than that and look into internalizing dual approaches to personal identity. The Asian values of harmony and family, and for women, putting others’ needs before your own comes into direct conflict with the American ideals of making yourself stand out and being independent, “looking out for number one.” It’s hard to adopt one approach without abandoning the other, and yet there seems to be an expectation that we should be able to navigate both worlds seamlessly, being assimilated out in the world but coming home to your own culture. I think that this is psychologically very difficult to do, to have a very different sense of identity and what your place is in the world, depending on your situational context.

  30. Adrienne wrote:

    This article and Margaret Cho’s autobiography reminded me so much of all the silent Asian-American girls and boys I knew growing up who were depressed, who had to literally keep it to themselves and pretend all was well.

    It is good that this article is out on the internet…as many people will see it and reflect on it…and maybe think of ways we can be of assistance to ourselves or others who are going through the same thing.

  31. Urban Suburbinite wrote:

    @ TN and Atlasien

    Thank you for your insight. What happens if the person is not good at the approved high-paying job. What if their engineering skills aren’t great or they are a mediocre doctor?

    Another question: Why do the range of what is considered “good” jobs seem so limited in the asian community? For example, in some parts of the U.S. a plumber can make over $100,000 per year. Masonry and Electrical pay pretty well too. I worked in a regional vocational technical trade school and in all 4 grades there were only 2 asian students in the whole school.

    So from that, I would think that status is just as important if not more than the actual money made.

  32. atlasien wrote:

    @Urban Suburbinite: social status does have a lot to do with it, especially for children of first-generation immigrants. The pattern starts with the fact that the parents often sacrificed a huge amount of social status to move to America. They have to start life all over again, as an (often hated) ethnic and racial minority in a foreign country, near the bottom of the scale, taking any job or small business opportunity that pays the most money, even if it’s very low status. They take that money and pour all their resources into the kids’ education so that the kids will grow up to get a high status job… whether they like it or not.

    But that’s just one pattern. If you go to communities like in Hawaii where there are a lot of second- and third- and fourth-generation Asian-Americans, there are plenty of Asian plumbers and the approach to making a living is a lot more relaxed. There’s almost no such thing as “the asian community”, there’s a lot of different communities depending on ethnicity, generation and geography.

  33. Zahra wrote:

    @ Bo

    While I agree that contemplating suicide and doing it are two different things, women in the US generally have rates of depression and suicidal thinking that far outstrip men (I recall a stat of around 80%), but the suicide rate is overwhelmingly male. For a long time, such stats were used to used to justify not giving women’s mental health adequate attention. Anyone contemplating suicide is in an excruciating amount of pain; to diminish the anguish of those who haven’t killed themselves yet seems both cruel and problematic.

    As Anonymous’s story above shows, another factor is the shortage of therapists of Asian descent, who might have more insight or better be able to build a bond with Asian-American clients. A close friend of mine went through quite a bit trying to find a culturally competent therapists for her father, who is dealing with severe depression and many of the Asian-American experiences mentioned above. Other communities of color–certainly those of African descent–have a similar problem when they do reach out for help.

  34. cult of the good job wrote:

    Thank you for such a poignant piece. I’m not from an Asian country, so there’s no way I can speak to all the nuanced cultural complexities undertaken in it, or in the thoughtful comments here, but I’m wondering about a few things. While I surmise from the explainations here that some Asian cultures’ collectivist underpinnings exert a strong influence, with all due respect, some comments here sound like the myriad groups under the “Asian” and Asian-American umbrella are made up of single-minded, material-driven automatons, with those who deviate from the norm most at risk for self-destruction. And we all know that isn’t true.

    I say the U.S. experience, one in which first and sometimes second-generation immigrants have often worked the hardest, dirtiest, and often least respected jobs to subsist, and the occasionally bitter memories of those experiences, are the true drivers that slightly supercede, or exacerbate, existing cultural norms. I mean, aren’t there people in Asian societies who’ve aspired to be artisans, musicians, and the like, even with pressures to provide for family? Perhaps many came from a long-privileged class group and didn’t have to worry much, but aren’t these pressures to provide more acute when you’re at the bottom of any societal stratum? Help me out here, and if anyone can explain more about the role of Confucianism and/or Buddhism, that would be helpful.

    From my own experience, as a black American woman, at least with my peer group, most of us were pushed by our parents to “get the good job.” Translation: Get the money (now that the doors to Corporate America are cracked) and vie for prestige. And for some families, that also meant get money so you can carry immediate relatives and extended family, no matter HOW FAR removed they are, and no matter how unwilling they were to do THEIR part. (Although not mine.) My mother and I still joke about her and my father’s reaction when I declared a major in African-American studies at the Ivy League institution I attended. Though both parents had protested in civil-rights marches, etc., I recall quite clearly hearing them say, “We didn’t send you to Ivy U., with loans, to learn about being black. What is that? We wanted to make sure you learned something so you could take care of yourself.”

    Ahem.

    Now, as a faceless careerist on the late end of Gen-X, I often wonder how to shed the sometimes shallow, nagging American-ness of “wanting more,” whatever the hell that is, with the opportunity costs involved. On one side, I revel in all the lofty possibilities like a feline high on catnip. However, I work hard at my day job at Spacely Sprockets, Inc., which provides for me in a way my parents could have only imagined in their time. As an older couple, they eventually straddled the line between expecting me, the only girl, to help care for them and my desire to have a life that complemented that inevitable reality. Leaving them to their own devices was not an option, no matter how resentful I’ve felt at times. It is love, duty, and honor. There is no “right” in any of this.

    On the flip side, couldn’t we say that those folks who came to the U.S., or immigrated to other parts of the world, were not only concerned about providing for their families chiefly but also were chasing a dream of sorts? Perhaps the first-generation immigrants in the U.S. are hard on their kids because they don’t want to encourage a mentality that says life will deliver quickly or easily. Still, that doesn’t justify the widespread bias against mental-health treatment in many POC communities. But I get it, though: Maybe the idea is if you give in to whatever is “depressing” you, that you’re more likely to go under and perhaps take others with you. Doesn’t make the mentality right, though. Nor does it mean these problems didn’t exist in individuals all along. I do know that at least for some POC, the idea of depression as “white” thing is prevalent, though I can’t say as much for other kinds of mental illness (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder). Compound that with well-justified distrust of the U.S. medical establishement, along with some practitioners’ often demoralizing tendency to “otherize” POC patients, and it makes for a difficult road. This hits home for me more than you know.

    In any case, all of the world’s societies are changing at a rapid clip, forcing people into situations that don’t always allow them to “catch up,” and often without certain tools they could rely on in year past. And I imagine that we’ll never know how many people born through the industrialized 20th Century were perhaps exposed to elements that may have set them and heir progeny up for mental illness (an environmental justice issue). In the end, I imagine that POCs with long-held biases against mental-health treatment will have to change, or else we will be forced to see entire generations lost to it.

  35. Yuko (emma_zero) wrote:

    I tend to agree with @Heather. I do wonder too, if ” higher rates of suicide among American-born Asians is less about Asian cultures and more about the complex interplay of the American and Asian value systems that Asian-Americans have to balance while trying not to lose themselves.”

    I feel some conflict within myself, every time I go back to Japan where my family is and stay for a while. When my own core values – which is a mixture of what I’ve developed here in the US without the influence of my family, and the background of the Japanese culture – are met with the very traditional Japanese cultural value, it seem to cause significant impact on my psyche. I actually don’t look forward to going back, because it takes a constant effort of self-suppression, and it’s incredibly draining. As you may easily imagine, when one spends so much energy trying to suppress what comes out naturally, one can’t focus on too many other things in life.

  36. jvansteppes wrote:

    Re: other groups, I don’t think the assertion that Asian women have a higher suicide rate is meant to detract from other statistics, such as those involving First Nations, Inuit or GLBT youth, but simply to highlight the fact that Asian girls and women are vulnerable to early death through suicide and the harsh conditions of depression and their suffering should not be forgotten.

    Statistics Canada reports that Aboriginal youth are 5-7 times more likely to commit suicide than non-Aboriginal youth here, while Inuit youth are 11 times more likely. Inuit youth are said to have the highest rates of suicide in the world. As Wolfie points out, half of all trans people attempt suicide before 20. Cisgendered queer youth are harder to peg down, I’ve read anything from twice as likely to four times as likely. I’ve seen a few studies in the past that did compare ethnicity among queers committing suicide and predictably, queers of color are significantly more vulnerable to suicide.

    Most stats don’t offer much in the way of an analysis of intersections of identity and experience so I tend to think of them as vague indicators. Histories of abuse, violence, sexual assault, addiction and homelessness just aren’t taken into account in most studies about suicide according to race/ability/sexuality/gender identity.

  37. jvansteppes wrote:

    Sorry to post twice in a row but something else popped into my head. I forget who it was (perhaps someone can help me out here) but I remember reading someone describe racism as ‘vulnerability to early death’.
    I find this phrase so poignant because it shows that even beyond verbal abuse and the really obvious trappings of racism, various POC are confronted on all sorts of levels with things that threaten their very lives, like environmental racism, or overincarceration. Suicide is one of these systemic things even though it feels so individualized, and every time I read about another group of POCs having a higher suicide rate I am reminded of this.

  38. TN wrote:

    @Urban Suburbinite wrote:
    Another question: Why do the range of what is considered “good” jobs seem so limited in the asian community? For example, in some parts of the U.S. a plumber can make over $100,000 per year.
    I’ll try to answer this question… Luckily for my Asian parents, they did end up having naturally nerdy, geeky children. We are in fields doing architecture, mechanical engineering and chemical physics. My parents were pretty disappointed to find out we didn’t want to be doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, pharmacists… but I think this is more due to lack of exposure to other types of careers and their prospects.

  39. Restructure! wrote:

    @Wolfie:

    also you might want to check your stats on the likeliness to think about or commit suicide “more than all other americans” I know trans people have a %30 suicide rate with %50 attempting suicide before they turn 20.

    This makes absolutely no sense. Asian Americans and trans people are not mutually exclusive groups, unless you think all trans people are white. You are comparing apples to green objects, race with gender identity.

    @atlasien:

    - parents
    - Asian-American men (”YOU’RE the ones who are super-popular sex symbols”)
    - white people (”but you people are all doctors and lawyers”
    - other people of color (”you people are just white people version 2.0″)
    - non-American Asians (”your problem is that you’re a lazy weak ungrateful American”)

    This. Although it applies to Asian Canadian women as well, and the last one should be Asians from Asia.

    Asian men also complain, “White men are taking our women!” (as if Asian women are the property of Asian men and cannot exist as complete individuals).

    @cult of the good job:

    second-generation immigrants

    Once again with the perpetual foreigner stereotype, which I believe is important contributing factor to mental illness of native-born Asians relative to foreign-born Asians.

  40. Wix wrote:

    It’s all about guilt. Everyone in my family and all my Asian American friends carry a huge burden of guilt.

    Did this study differentiate between first, second, third generation? I would imagine that second and third generation women might not have the same experience growing up in America.

  41. Restructure! wrote:

    More sources of aggravation to U.S./Canadian-born Asian American/Canadian women:

    - foreign-born Asians: “You’re not really Asian like us. You’re a banana(/coconut)/jook-sing. You’re white to me, and you have no experience of racism.”

    - white people: “You’re not really Americans/Canadians like us. You’re an foreigner/immigrant, so when you complain about racism, I dismiss it as misunderstanding our culture and not getting the (e.g., ching-chong) joke. Why don’t you criticize your own country, i.e., China?”

    - foreign-born Asian men: “You’re pointing out sexism? That just confirms that you’ve been brainwashed by Western values and you worship white people, so nothing you say is valid to me. After all, you’re not really Asian, so you wouldn’t understand anti-Asian racism.”

    - white men: “Hey, I’m a white man. Why aren’t you impressed? I am doing you a favour, since I, a white man, am interested in you, an Asian woman.”

    - white women: “Why don’t you join our white feminist club? Oh, it must be because you’re a submissive Asian woman brainwashed by Asian men and have internalized backwards, ancient Asian culture. How do we, white women, teach you, uneducated Asian women, about the the existence of gender inequality and the concept of human rights?”

    - white people and non-Asian POC: “Asians aren’t really minorities and don’t experience racism. All Asians are rich. Asians are the real racists!!”

  42. jm wrote:

    This is a fascinating and important topic. I agree that there’s probably a lot of hidden depression in Asian-American women. There’s another forum called “Depression, Suicide and Asian American Students” going on at the CollegeConfidential.com site that touches on lots of similar points, including family problems that can make Asians depressed.

    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/751065-depression-suicide-asian-american-students.html?highlight=depression+asian+americans

  43. Anonymous wrote:

    @Zahra

    Yes, I agree that having cultural competent professionals around would help.

    However… in my scenario, I’m a Canadian-born Chinese and what I needed at the time wasn’t someone who was competent in just Chinese culture. What I needed was a competent professional, period, who would not misdiagnose me, and would not be racist. A white person could have filled that role. Sure, perhaps having someone of Chinese descent treat me may have helped, but many of the stressors involved the Canadian environment and were from my contact with whites in my home country (Canada). An anti-racist professional could have filled that role, but it didn’t happen.

    I just wanted to make that distinction. Furthermore, a white medical professional with white privilege may be taken more seriously among their peers if they choose to discuss racism in terms of mental illness within his or her professional circle. It would not be productive if both psychologist and patient were Othered during the course of treatment.

  44. octogalore wrote:

    Atlasien — I love your #28. The topic of cultural approaches to work could be (maybe is) a book.

    Re “the idea that a job should be something you enjoy and that fulfills you as a person is really common in the U.S. ” vs in Asia “the concept is that a job is primarily for money, family support and social status” is right on. I worked in the US and in Japan, as well as having family members and a senior partner who are Asian (plus am from a Jewish family, which has some similarities in parental pushing to Asian families).

    It’s a struggle trying to find the best parts of both and not the worst, as you cogently said. There is the “having everything” myth here about saving the world, having a great lifestyle, and being able to seemlessly integrate work and play, that often leads one into college majors with very little practical career track. But then, there’s the path of my senior partner, who was one of those kids like the ones referenced in the OP who were beaten by their dads and made to feel inadequate, who has achieved enough material success to retire at 45 a couple times over, but has made family and outside-life sacrifices galore and probably would not know how to spend his time were he to retire.

    I can only imagine, that being Asian and female would lend an additional stressor, in that the US-Asia cultural tension re work becomes even more complicated once the gender variable is added. Although much may’ve changed since I worked in Tokyo in ‘90, the gender roles once out of college appeared quite disparate, with a few notable exceptions.

  45. Restructure! wrote:

    @Anonymous (43):

    Yeah, the emphasis on multiculturalism in Canada often shifts attention away from racism. Not every non-white person is from a different culture, and to even assume that they are is an example of racial prejudice (perpetual foreigner stereotype). The problem that visible minorities face is racism, not cultural difference.

  46. DivergentDana wrote:

    “For a long time, such stats were used to used to justify not giving women’s mental health adequate attention. Anyone contemplating suicide is in an excruciating amount of pain; to diminish the anguish of those who haven’t killed themselves yet seems both cruel and problematic.”

    Especially when a good deal of the gendered suicide disparity is caused by gendered methods of committing/attempting suicide. Men are more likely to use guns, women are more likely to use pills, which have a wider spectrum of outcomes, many of which don’t include death.

  47. Anonymous wrote:

    @Restructure

    Yes, and quite frankly, the approach of assigning a POC to deal with the POC patient comes across as brushing ‘the problem’ under the rug, and safely isolating it without having to bother white people with it… when whites are active participants of the problem.

    Now that the problem has been identified, I wonder what can be done. Clearly there is a lack of a support network in place and young Asian-American/Canadian women are attempting suicide. I think that anti-racism could be introduced at a young age so that these women, growing up, will be able to develop the psychological weapons and organizational tactics to counteract the microaggressions they face in daily Canadian life. I think our communities need to be proactive about it. It’s a real shame that we’re often left to do this on our own without the support of the majority white community, but someone has to do it.

    The second-generation feels the brunt of the impact because their parents are fighting hard to become successful as first-generation immigrants, so it’s up to the second-generation to use their experiences and depend on their own ingenuity to fill the void and pass it on to the next generation, as a map.

    This means talking openly about racism, the discomfort of white people be damned. Lives depend on it. The feelings of the privileged can take a back seat.

  48. TN wrote:

    @Restructure! – everything you said is so true!

  49. Sobia wrote:

    @TN:

    “You still have to remember that some people did have to flee. ”

    Yes, and that’s why I said “*Many* immigrants don’t flee their homelands ” – not “immigrants don’t flee their homelands”

    I just don’t like the assumption that ALL immigrants have fled their, which is often a belief held by many.

  50. TN wrote:

    @Sobia – I just don’t like the assumption that ALL immigrants have fled their, which is often a belief held by many.

    Really? Because that isn’t my experience, I have had to explain many times that my family really did have to flee their homeland rather than having it nice and easy and moving to a different country just because they are supposedly greedy. I am sure tgere are immigrants who didn’t have to flee their homeland but some, a lot actually had to.

  51. Aorta wrote:

    I can really relate to this. A lot of my moments of depression and mental break downs were met with ‘be strong and don’t cry about it. This is nothing compared to what I had to go through back in Thailand.” Sometimes I wonder if my parent’s choice to just leave me alone and not get me any help was because they assumed I’d ‘grow out of it’.
    It’s a relief to hear someone speaking out about it because otherwise, I start to feel ashamed of what I went through.

  52. cult of the good job wrote:

    Jen, Atlasien, and everyone else here, my apologies. I didn’t mean to reinforce the “perpetual foreigner” stereotype in my earlier post. Ugh. I wrote “second-generation immigrant” reflexively, without re-reading for the mistake. Wasn’t looking to otherize anyone.

  53. Dorian wrote:

    I’m really bothered by these statements, and frankly I’m surprised and disappointed that they showed up here on Racialicious, and even more so of the amount of support they’re getting.

    #3
    - Asian-American men (”YOU’RE the ones who are super-popular sex symbols”)
    - non-American Asians (”your problem is that you’re a lazy weak ungrateful American”)

    #39
    Asian men also complain, “White men are taking our women!” (as if Asian women are the property of Asian men and cannot exist as complete individuals).

    #41
    - foreign-born Asians: “You’re not really Asian like us. You’re a banana(/coconut)/jook-sing. You’re white to me, and you have no experience of racism.”

    - foreign-born Asian men: “You’re pointing out sexism? That just confirms that you’ve been brainwashed by Western values and you worship white people, so nothing you say is valid to me. After all, you’re not really Asian, so you wouldn’t understand anti-Asian racism.”

    First, sorry, I just don’t get #3’s Asian-American men comment about Asian women and supermodels. Where on earth did that come from anyway?

    And somehow, I don’t think this conversation is helping us understand the plights of Asian groups. In complaining about “other Asians” and “Asian men,” aren’t you just repeating other stereotypes of old-fashioned, unchangeable, and (by the tone of these “quotes”) out of touch Asians/Asian men? Come on, there’s got to be more to it than that. And not only that, but these quotes also seem to reject the difficulties of those other minority groups (at the very least, they’re definitely not helping).

  54. Angela wrote:

    Just wanted to say thanks for writing this. Two weeks ago my 19 yo Asian American neice tried to hang herself. Thank God the rope broke and she’s going to be fine physically. The adults in her life (black, white and Canadian) can’t figure this out. I’m going to forward this article to all of them. And when she’s ready, I’ll forward it to me neice as well. Thanks again.

  55. atlasien wrote:

    @Dorian: my complaints, and Restructure’s complaints, are focused on Asian-American women at risk of depression. WHICH IS THE TOPIC OF THE POST.

    They are not focused on sparing the feelings of white men, or sparing the feelings of white women. They are not focused on sparing the feelings of other people of color. They are not focused on sparing the feelings of our parents, or of other Asians, or of Asian-American men. If any individual member of those groups doesn’t engage in the sort of negative behavior we’re describing, they shouldn’t feel insulted.

    Your derailing comment is typical of the insane demands often placed on Asian-American women. Think of other people before you think of yourself… never put your own needs first… don’t complain…

    I am not going to bother listing the multitudes of times both myself and Restructure have spoken out against racism targeting… Asian-American men, for example. And on those posts, we don’t derail. Do a Google search on this site and you’ll see. But because you read this one instance where we maintain the focus on our own subgroup, you’re about half a step away from calling us sell-out whores. I have no patience for this, and not even the vaguest twinge of a desire to apologize.