Religious Major: Undeclared [Racialigious]

by Latoya Peterson

“What do you mean you don’t know what Easter is?”

I appraised Best Boy with all the understated annoyance I could muster at the ripe old age of fifteen.

“Again,” I said with an eye roll, “not raised with a religion. And all that comes out around Easter time is new patent leather shoes, dyed eggs, and ham.”

He would not drop the subject.

“How do you not know what Easter is?”

“Did the Rugrats make a special about it? Then no, I don’t know.”

Since I had opened up the lines of fire, he launched his own smart ass attack.

“How do you not go to church, anyway? What kind of black person are you?”

His words struck me deeply, and from time to time I’ve revisited that short conversation and wondered about his motivations and beliefs. This is not a new idea, but one I am starting to hear more and more often:

What kind of black person am I, if I grew up without a religion?

I’m sure that if that had been an off-handed comment, outside of any sort of context, I wouldn’t even remember that story. But as it stands, it was the first articulation of how others would perceive me later – as something strange and stateless. When Atlasien wrote her piece asking if Buddhism is the anti-Islam, there was one passage in particular that resonated with me:

If the phrase “culturally Christian” strikes you as jarring, it’s actually a pretty simple concept. It reflects the fact that when it comes to cultural institutions, the United States is very much a Christian nation. Hey, I mean this in a sociological sense, not a legal one… I love secularism and I donate to Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. But when you’re raised within a majority culture, you become fluent in that culture’s idioms and ways of making sense of the world, no matter what you believe on an intellectual level. Even if you were raised in a family that never even went to church, you’re almost certainly a cultural Christian. I’m a Buddhist, and I’m a cultural Christian. If I spill a hot cup of coffee on myself, I say “Jesus ****ing Christ!” not “Amida ****ing Buddha!”

For me, cultural Christianity is like a stream I’m standing in. I have to stand inside it in order to live in this society and understand its values and language. I don’t have a choice. It isn’t good or bad, it just is. But I’m also outside the stream, to some degree… I can reach out my arms towards other streams and pools.

I could relate. I, too, pepper my speech with references to Jesus, though I would be classified as an unbeliever by many Christians. And I understand a lot of morality and society through the Christian lens it is often presented through. But I still hold back from committing to Christianity as a religion. Partially, it is because I share my mother’s distrust of organized religion – the hard sell, the profiteering pastors, the obnoxiousness of the sanctified trying to inflict their moral authority. It’s all equally grating to me.

However, I’ve been standing in this stream long enough to absorb some of its water. I am loosely monotheistic (in that God is in everything kind of way) and I have a lot of trouble rejecting that frame, even when I acknowledge that growing up in the States probably influenced that way of thinking. I, like atlasien, default to using a lot of Christian phrasing and framework. But I am always aware I am not a part of this stream, and there is some disharmony when I begin to walk against the current.

I do not hate religion. I see religion as a tool, kind of like a knife. A knife can be used to provide sustenance, to free people, to protect one’s self against those that will do you harm. And it can also be used to inflict damage. Neither of these is the inherent nature of the knife – it all depends on the wielder. In this way, I disagree with some atheists who believe that all religions are harmful. I have seen religion become a positive focus and direction for men of my acquaintance, both through the paths of Christianity and Islam. So I am not willing to chuck the entire idea of religion, part and parcel.

And yet, I still resent a lot of the ideas propagated along with religion. One of these is the idea of proselytization, where those who feel obligated to spread the word of God do so by infringing upon my personal space. And another is the idea that Christian is synonymous with black, which does more than erase the experiences of blacks that have chosen another path, but requires a certain adherence to religion to move about freely in black society.

When Tami talked about the plight of a black agnostic who wrote to Salon’s Cary Tennis for advice, she noted:

Tennis gave one of his predictably lofty and meandering non-answers to “Churchgoing Agnostic”–advice that, I think, doesn’t take into account the unique relationship the black community has with Christianity. The Black Church, as an institution, is about more than worship. It is about community, history, activism and more. For many, Christianity and churchgoing are part of the very fabric of African Americanness. For a people whose African ancestors practiced indigenous religions far removed from the Western view of worship, we have embraced Christianity as ours. A recent survey revealed that blacks are more religious in key ways – including frequency of church attendance, daily prayer life and certainty of belief – than the U.S. population as a whole. Quiet as it’s kept, a whole lot of those presumably white, conservative, Evangelical Christians that get so much ink, look like me. [...]

So, what advice would I give Churchgoing Agnostic? If he were a friend, I would suggest he not make any major pronouncements regarding his beliefs. After all, faith–or lack off–is very personal and needn’t be a public affair. I don’t care for proselytizing of any stripe–religious or secular. I would suggest he dialogue more with his wife about his beliefs on religion to ease her into understanding his views. The hard part will be shedding religious rituals that feel uncomfortable to him, especially ones that are part of his community and family. If he has been attending church every Sunday and prayer service every Wednesday, a sudden disappearance will guarantee some sort of prying confrontation. What then?

I feel a little icky about my advice. It feels like recommending that the letter writer lie to both himself and those he loves. But don’t we do that sometimes, where other things are involved, to keep the peace?

Tami’s advice was a bit jarring to some, but I completely understood what she was saying. For you see, many of us without religion know what comes when you admit who you are. To come out as a non-Christian is to bring about a wave of misplaced concern, where people suddenly need to pass you booklets and pamphlets and to encourage you to come back into the arms of Christ, even if you’d never been there in the first place. And that’s probably the best case scenario. The worst case is to be ostracized from your peer group because of your lack of faith, to have people call you wicked, to have former friends avoid you because they think your existence as a non-believer is a threat to their faith. It’s a tough and lonely road to walk. So we engage in a form of religious covering, masking our ambivalence about Christianity with what we have learned standing in the stream.

When I worked in a predominantly black work environment, many of the people there had printed out passages from scripture to line their walls and had a bible displayed somewhere in their cubicle. Occasionally, after meetings, some one would call for a group prayer. It was then that I covered, not wanting to be marked as different by those I worked with. I participated in the prayers, though I resented the imposition of religion in my work life. But I felt the social cost of public protest was too high of a cost to pay.

When I attended a wedding recently, I covered. Again in the predominantly black company, I sat through what felt like hours of prayers and discussions, jokes about praying for the right man and the right weave, watching Tyler Perry’s “Why Did I Get Married” as a call-and-response exercise, and almost got my eyes stuck in the back of my head when I listened to the bride tearfully announce she was ready to submit to her husband. But, again, I covered. It was not worth rocking the boat.

When I visited my boyfriend’s family in the south, I ended up having dinner with his aunt and uncle, both of whom are ordained. It’s stressful enough trying to make a good impression. It’s even worse trying to make a good impression while covering. Before dinner, his aunt asked for us to do a common family ritual. Everyone was to go around in a circle and recite their favorite verse of scripture.

The first thing I thought was “Fuck!”

This was taking covering to Olympian levels. But what to do? I didn’t want to shift the focus on myself and start going on about how I wasn’t raised with religion – that tends to make things worse, because then people feel obligated to “save” you, and I wasn’t trying to spend dinner talking about the glory of coming to Christ. But if I didn’t cop to not knowing a bible verse, I would be stuck trying to pull something out of my ass before my boyfriend’s family. Vaguely, the edges of my secular brain pulled something together. Hmm, the lord is my shepard, I shall not want… that should work. Three people to go, and it appears that the custom was to cite the beginning of the passage and every one else would chime in.

I was pleased with myself. Successfully covered!

Or so I thought. The turn was passed to my boyfriend’s uncle, who was also a pastor but currently suffers from severe Alzheimer’s. The aunt lovingly turned to him and said “Repeat after me. The Lord is my Shepard…”

Double fuck!

One person to go, and I was about to be outed. I scanned my brain for anything, anything at all to fill the gap. About to admit defeat, and resign myself to a really awkward dinner, I remembered a passage printed on my old supervisor’s wall. Right on beat, I chimed in:

“You shall not fight this battle alone…”

Which was actually incorrect. What I was referring to was this:

¹⁷‘You need not fight in this battle; station yourselves, ^(T)stand and see the salvation of the LORD on your behalf, O Judah and Jerusalem ‘ Do not fear or be dismayed; tomorrow go out to face them, ^(U)for the LORD is with you.”

But I had apparently confused multiple quotes and mashed them all together in my head. But it didn’t matter in the end. The moment passed, and later – when more trust was established – we actually had a decent conversation about the nature of seeking religious insight. But, in that moment, I still covered.

To uncover still holds significant costs. I operate in a strange space – someone who believes in one god, but not a religion. As a result, I normally get along well with people of many different faiths, as well as atheists. As I am only interested in beliefs, and do not seek to change them, I find that more people are willing to engage with me in religious conversations. However, I am often reminded of my nomad-like status when it comes down to making life decisions.

My ex-boyfriend continually brought up the fact that I would need to convert to Christianity before marrying him. His speech was always the same, beginning with “and once you have accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior…”

Interestingly enough, these conversations were apropos of nothing. I wasn’t interested in marrying him and never broached the subject myself; his insertion of religion into the opening conversations was a way of reminding me that my heathen lifestyle was unacceptable.

My current boyfriend also expresses his discomfort with my lack of belief. As a strong Christian, he entered our relationship content in the knowledge that I was not an atheist. But as the relationship progresses, it no longer seems to be enough that I believe in a God. It actively troubles him that I am not a Christian. Once, he asked “What kind of black people don’t go to church,” and I asked him to think hard about whether he really wanted that answer.

I asked my best friend, L, for her perspective, and she explained that dating a non-Christian is a bit of a strain. Her boyfriend is also a non-believer, and she has the same reservations about advancing their relationship. When I asked her what did it matter, she pointed out that there is a loss of intimate space when you and your partner cannot speak the same language when talking about God. And for her, that type of distance was painful. I wondered aloud if that kind of idea forces others to pretend. Isn’t a sincere declaration of ambivalence better than an insincere declaration of faith? We agreed to switch topics, coming no closer to a mutual answer.

L recently grew in her faith as a Christian. She is happier for this and more grounded in her community. I noticed the positive change in her, and she asked me to reconsider my relationship with Christianity.

A couple years ago, she asked me to come to her church for an Alpha session, a program designed to give seekers a better understanding of Christianity, specifically focusing on the life of Jesus Christ. Seeing as I didn’t know the origin of Easter, I figured I might as well drag myself to a church and at least get correct, non pop culture saturated knowledge. For a few weeks, I traveled to church after work to have dinner and discussions with other people about the Christian way of life. It was interesting. But there were a couple things that stood out to me.

The church my friend attended was predominantly white. There were minorities, yes, but a large number of converts – especially black converts – ended up switching to an affiliated church with a predominantly black congregation. I always wondered how and why that happened, even while attending the program.

Secondly, I realized why I’m not really a fan of churches in the first place. For my friends who are Christian, a church provides a place for fellowship, a place to connect with others who are seeking enlightenment and fulfillment along the same spiritual path. For me, as a person raised both secular and skeptical of organized religion, this is not a great place. While I often enjoy sermons and quizzing the pastors about the meaning of faith and life, I hate the hard sell that accompanies the church, the self-policing among the flock, the rigid adherence to a certain set of norms. And I hate the posturing that accompanies those who feel that they are saved, the pronouncements, the ego clashes. A friend once told me that he is anti-church, that he believed the only things required in a religious relationship was “a man, his book, and his God.”

After heading to Alpha, I was inclined to agree. I learned a lot. I received a lot of books which were provocative reading. I had great discussions with great people. But religion still left me cold. By the time we neared the end of the program, each pastor stressed that if we had not yet come to Jesus, we needed to figure out why not. If we had not accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior, we needed to figure out which of our “pet sins” were keeping us away from God. I searched myself for the answer. I didn’t know. Ignoring my growing discomfort, I agreed to make one last effort, heading to the Alpha Retreat, a two day intensive in the country where all of the Alpha classes got to leave their lives and just bond with each other while participating in discussions about the word of God.

The first night, there was a sing-along of sorts. I’m not sure if it was the food I ate before the sing along, or something else, but I felt myself falling ill. I listened to the pastors, but felt disconnected. Then, the singing began, and people began throwing their hands up and surrendering to Christ. I felt like I was watching the assembly scenes in Saved, and wondered what I was doing there. After the singing stopped, I went back to my room to rest. The rest of the weekend was kind of a blur, and I felt like I was going through the motions. Unfortunately, after I had rested, I discovered that the answer was inside of me all along: God, as I understood it, was not to be found here.

After the Alpha retreat, I did not return to the church. L stopped asking, mentioning friends I had made there from time to time. However, she too began to have issues with the church we attended together – in addition to moving to a new neighborhood and wanting to be connected to the people there, she was noticing a strange rift in the congregation that had formerly felt so welcoming. The Obama election ended up rocking the church, often splitting it down racial lines and prompting these normally moderate Christians to post things on Facebook that would have been shouted at pro-life rallies or birther functions. Disgusted, L invested herself in her neighborhood church, one that is predominantly black – and, interestingly enough, the same church that my boyfriend’s family attends. They have both, separately, asked me to attend services – I’ve left my answer vague, intentionally.

Perhaps I’m just not made for church. Apparently, this tendency runs in the family. At a family reunion in South Carolina, where our relatives are so populous we occupy large chunks of a certain town, and where everyone heads to church on Sunday at 9, stays for dinner at 2, and won’t get home until 5, I was wondering how to deal with the church question. In these situations, it is hard to cover. But luckily, I didn’t have to. Seated at a table during the reunion dinner, the family elders began singing a series of hymns. They explained that our family lineage was firmly rooted in the church, and after slavery, our oldest ancestor rejected his slave master’s surname (Thompson) for the self selected name of Priestly. The hymns were then sung, but without a book, I was lost. However, I wasn’t alone. Stealing glances around the table, I noticed that no one was singing. Most were just starting off into space politely, waiting for the songs to end.

After the food was served, I decided to take a chance.

I told my grandmother that while I respected other people’s religion, I really wasn’t much for church. She smiled.

“Oh, me neither,” she said. “I always thought it was more about what’s in a person’s heart. I’m sure God thinks that too.”

The next day, we opted to miss church services. My father blamed our absence on his aching back, but somehow we managed to make it to lunch on time. Our relatives each commented on our absence at church, but generally let the matter drop.

Since that day with my family, I’ve felt more at peace with my decision to stay a seeker. I enjoy learning about religions, talking to adherents, having intense discussions with atheists. And I love using multiple concepts to steer my understanding of faith, like the concept of jihad as in internal struggle with the will of the self and the word of God, or exploring the eight-fold path, or untangling Wiccan theology from stereotypes.

While seeking, I’ve learned that I like the idea of a deity. I like that feeling of being overwhelmed by something you can’t explain, but feel close to. I find it hard to articulate why I think that feeling is God, but I just do. And I am starting to understand that the general absence of this feeling in church, but the presence of this feeling when I am doing mundane things like looking at the clouds through an airplane window or walking in the woods makes me think I will only find what I seek if I am willing to just be.

But, I must admit, I do slightly envy my friends of faith.

I often dream of Death. Not the bad-ass Tori Amos inspired Death that Neil Gaiman dreamed up and illustrated into existence, but the more grim, river Styx kind. Death is the largest unknown, the only non-negotiable, the reality that begs the question “what is my purpose on Earth?”

One of the things I often envy about my more religious friends is that they have peace. Or more specifically, a belief, one that allows them to just know the answers to the questions about the after life. My boyfriend sleeps peacefully throughout the night, untroubled by the universe. He believes in heaven and hell and that’s it, while my mind endlessly explores the possibilities.

Sometimes I wish the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything really was 42.

The number feels concrete, final, unlike these nebulous ideas of faith and practice, complicated by race.

Share and Enjoy:

Comments

Fiqah wrote:

@LDP: Thoughtful, engaging and excellently presented. Well done, Editrix.

(ASIDE: If you ever find yourself in a position where you’re called upon to quote Scripture, I recommend the Gospel of John, chapter 11, verse 35: Jesus wept. Flippancy in the guise of piety can make religious covering a bit easier to swallow. Can I get an amen?)

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 12:33 pm ¶
n wrote:

*sigh*
I’ve been trying to explain to someone, a white male, how completely horribly out of place SOCIALLY it is to be an agnostic/atheist POC in the Bible Belt.
It goes beyond the lack of community from not having a church home. I cant have certain discussions or participate in gossip because my morality is not based on religion or God.
(I use the name God, capitalized just as I do the name Santa Claus. No indication of my beliefs, fyi)
When discussing issues of hope, dreams, problems and pain I cannot freely participate because I do not believe in a God to turn to, a God to save me or anyone, in God’s will, in people’s troubles being caused by a need to turn to God.
It means that I do a LOT of covering, and that I am VERY out of step in my beliefs. Even with my siblings and my closest friends.

It would be one thing if I were elsewhere, but to freely participate in coversations that discuss morality and ethics and things related to 42 here means I’m pretty much damned.

And then there are those who will then blame your problems or misfortunes on being a sinner and turning away from God. If anything happens to me, I’m godless and a heathen and deserve it.

Im culturally Catholic, but thats a step away from Satanism. OMG (heh heh), I had a friend whose mother now has a church and they had these pamphlets when I was a kid. I got a few, and it was discussing Mary worship and how there was no word for Priest in the Bible (nor for a whole lotta things, AFAIK but who is counting, eh?) Catholics were depraved monsters who worshipped idols and Satan and it was all rather creepy.
So Im already at a disadvantage there. PLUS, for cultural reasons I keep getting accused of voodoo. No, seriously. Voodoo. My ex boyfriends mom believed in her heart that I did voodoo on him.
(It was brujeria, but not of THAT sort)

I dont envy my friends their faith. I am ok with questioning and wondering and accepting that I do not know and will nevr know the answers. The problem is that I refuse to accept as fact things they do. God said it, I believe it, thats it. Or whatever the bumper sticker says.
This means conversations can be limited. I still want to think and ponder and explore, but those around me KNOW and ther eis nothing to discuss with them.

I dont like the idea of a deity, btw. If there were one, I wouldn’t be friends with it. Not when I see all the things it has done or allowed. If God is a father he is either an abusive one or a neglectful one.

Being “catholic” though, I feel free to hate God. Its allowed. You can be mad or disappointed as long as you believe. So within THAT framework, I actually feel free to be an atheist. And when with Catholics (i know very few) I frame my disbelief as a crisis of faith, the priests I know treat it as if you had a mother you hated and work on helping you to love God again despite his inscrutable ways. Outside of the Catholic community the reaction tends to be one of horror and people distance themselves quickly so they dont get hit by the lighting bolt headed your way.

Even I succumb to the lure of community and am willing to show up at Mass, simply because here having no religious affiliation often means having NO affiliation.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 12:42 pm ¶
n wrote:

Oh, I have a bible verse I reference when being pressured.I reference it in such a way to indicate that THEY should use this as a rule, but not in a way to indicate that I believe it.

Matthew 6-5
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.”

I can hear everyone now whispering that the Devil can quote scripture for his own purposes. I’m saying this in jest, but there can be almost a witch hunt sort of atmosphere for black folk who are not Christian. People can truly fear and mistrust you and will believe that you are indeed The Devil.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 12:51 pm ¶
SarahNicole wrote:

@Fiqah: Dang, you stole my quote.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 12:52 pm ¶
Pazi wrote:

Well-written and interesting!

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 12:55 pm ¶
curlyscales wrote:

Sigh. At family gatherings prayer before eating is like a tag-team event – it gets passed to at least 4 people. My cousins and I have learned to stay near the front door at the start, this way we can slip out and at least graze (we’re usually starving by this time!)

I have searched high and low for a “church” home and finally came to the conclusion that organized religion is not for me.

Now, I try not to make this feeling known because somewhere, someone wants to make their religious career by converting me. But what ends up happening is an uneasiness on their part followed by wishes that I be struck down by some form of biblical punishment.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 1:12 pm ¶
Beth wrote:

“The worst case is to be ostracized from your peer group because of your lack of faith, to have people call you wicked, to have former friends avoid you because they think your existence as a non-believer is a threat to their faith.”

Why not change your peer group? I’m also a black woman who is not religious, and, consequently, I surround myself with both religious folks who aren’t preachy and respect my perspective (one of my oldest and dearest friends, who is very religious, respects my sincerity regarding religion, as he finds folks who feign religious feeling more problematic) and folks who aren’t religious.

In college, I managed to date some guys before I settled down with my now husband, and none of them were particularly religious, or, if they were, things ended before it became an issue. There was one situation where a friend and I were pretty compatible except that he was religious and I was not, so we never dated. My husband is a different race, but we are in agreement on political, social, and philosophical issues–including religion (he also has a sophisticated understanding of race currently as well as the history of race in the US). To some, the difference of our race–despite the fact that we try to always be thoughtful on issues of race–are more significant than those other issues, but I couldn’t imagine a smooth relationship with someone who disagreed with me on religion and some of those other issues even if we were the same race.

I do not at all mean to be disrespectful of you–I can appreciate your struggle. I guess I just know that, for me, “covering” and/or feigning religious feeling has proven to be much harder than finding people who like me for me. When I was 15, I had similar experiences to the one you had with your friend. While I still have some extended family members who don’t understand my perspective, there is no one who I would choose (ie, who isn’t kin) to include in my adult (turning 20 this year!) life who would treat me in such a way.

Sorry to go on for so long. Thanks for your thoughtful and engaging post.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 1:23 pm ¶
Tara wrote:

Thanks for posting this. I so much love to read about other people’s beliefs, understandings, struggles, with God and religion. I think it’s easy to write about superficially, but to write with sincerity is so difficult and I think it makes a person really vulnerable. I’m pretty conscious of where my pre-thinking (non-thinking? extra-thinking?) beliefs don’t match my intellectual beliefs, and I feel like engaging with the former strips away layers of sophistication in my writing and general self-presentation.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 1:25 pm ¶
n wrote:

@beth
in some cities it may be impossible to change your peer group
i for one, plan to move from where I am VERY soon

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 1:29 pm ¶
Lauren O wrote:

One of the things I often envy about my more religious friends is that they have peace. Or more specifically, a belief, one that allows them to just know the answers to the questions about the after life.

Yeah, but, depending on how strictly they adhere to their religion, those answers are wrong. Those answers promote xenophobia, homophobia, and misogyny. I was raised Christian, and I was never peaceful, because I was always trying to make myself believe in things that seemed morally wrong (women submitting to their husbands, for example) or scientifically impossible. I feel much more content now that I’m open to new information and constantly learning.

I don’t mean to say that religious people can’t be open-minded or curious, but I would argue that many/most aren’t, and that that open-mindedness and curiosity is usually a deviation from their religion rather than a part of it. I don’t mean any of this to apply universally, though, because if anything is emphatically NOT one-size-fits-all, it’s religion.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 1:33 pm ¶
A wrote:

Excellent article.

Can you talk more about being black and actively *not* Christian, say black and Jewish or black and Hindu?

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 1:36 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:

Great post! That pressure from your ex- sounds especially depressing but I’m glad you explored it.

I live in the heart of the bible belt, although there’s a lot of religious diversity inside Atlanta, so it’s not as difficult as it might be. Churches here serve so many purposes… they give you job opportunities through networking, childcare, enable political aspirations for individuals and groups, help define your racial and cultural identity, and the mega ones even have stuff like hair salons and gyms! My family attends a non-credal left-of-the-aisle church in order to meet like-minded families and so my son can learn about comparative religion in a non-hellfire environment… I don’t get anything at all spiritually from that church, but it’s still very valuable socially, and I go there every week. I don’t have to pretend to be a Christian to go there, but I know a lot of other people who are not Christian and actually go to Christian churches, because they would miss out on too much by not going to one.

One of the hardest aspects of living in a Christian environment is how to handle prayers and prayer requests. Some Buddhists have no issues at all with prayers, but in my branch, Jodo Shinshu, petitionary prayers are frowned on. It’s very laissez-faire in terms of everyday rules to follow, but praying for anything is one of the few strict points. I won’t go into the fine details, but if I agreed to pray for anybody — for a bettering of their earthly or non-earthly circumstances — it would represent 1) a betrayal of a trust via egotism 2) a lie (because I wouldn’t really believe in the prayer).

If I was pressed — that is, confronted by someone in extreme pain who called directly on me to pray for them — I would do it, absolutely. Their emotional need would be more important than my integrity. But I would feel dishonest later.

I’ve learned that a great way to dance around these situations is to say “my thoughts are with you.” That way, people who don’t believe in prayer can show compassion without being dishonest.

It doesn’t bother me if people pray for me or not. I look on it as a well-meaning gesture. But being asked to pray for other people is like having to tiptoe through an emotional minefield.

I can barely even imagine myself responding to a prayer request with the simple truth: “I’m sorry about your situation. But I can’t do that for you because my religion is anti-prayer.” I would look like the biggest jerk in the world…

What you’re talking about in the end (the end in more senses than one) is such a primal issue. There’s a new concept in psychology called Terror Management that tries to explain a lot of human culture as a desperate attempt to alleviate the terror of death:

“Humans are aware of the inevitability of their own death. Culture diminishes this psychological terror by providing meaning, organization and continuity to people’s lives. Compliance with cultural values enhances one’s feeling of security and self-esteem, provided that the individual is capable of living in accordance with whatever particular cultural standards apply to him or her. The belief in the rightness of the cultural values and standards creates the conviction necessary to live a reasonable and meaningful life.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 2:14 pm ¶
Jason S. wrote:

I saw your works on Jezebel, which really opened my eyes, and I was saddened to see you go. My respect for you has grown even more upon seeing this.

I have seldom seen writing so introspective, yet so intuitive and resonating. I have asked these questions myself, and while it is disheartening to know that even those as smart as yourself struggle with an answer, it is comforting to know that I am not alone.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 2:50 pm ¶
Maggie wrote:

Latoya,

This is fabulous.

I also really love your analogy about religion as a knife. Over the years, I’ve made my way to being an atheist, but I’ve always found the anti-theism thing to be a pretty disagreeable undercurrent of the community. Calling religion a neutral tool sums up a lot of my thinking nicely. Thank you for that.

I do find, sometimes, that I miss the idea of a personal God, though I can’t really force myself to believe in one. At best, I can get to Deism. Instead, I find my ineffable wonder in the natural, un-directed processes and my meaning for life in doing what I can to leave this world a better place than I found it. I jokingly call it, “God is dead; do it yourself”. There’s no Deus ex Machina to swoop in and feed the hungry or bring justice to the oppressed or comfort the people who need it–that’s all our job. I think I like the label of “humanist” better than “atheist”.

I do, however, find that I increasingly miss the sense of community that came with religion. The shared ritual. How the whole thing makes people a part of the neighborhood and brings families together in ways the Neighborhood Association just doesn’t seem to be able to pull off. My husband and I have contemplated bringing any future kids up Unitarian (the church where belief in deity is optional), to get some of that into their lives.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 2:53 pm ¶
Beth wrote:

@n, re: “in some cities it may be impossible to change your peer group
i for one, plan to move from where I am VERY soon”

Very, very true. Indeed, that’s part of the reason that I’ve become very passionate about the the types of places that I am willing to live. I know it can be really tough to move away from loved ones and start fresh, particularly if that means moving a great distance. I was lucky in that I was already in a semi-secular area, and only had to move 60 or so miles from my mom to be in my ideal space. I don’t know what I would have done if I’d had to move thousands of miles away from everyone and everything I’d known–I’m sure it would have been much harder, but perhaps even more rewarding in the end.

I hope you’re really happy in your new home and make great friends

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 3:16 pm ¶
penni brown wrote:

I appreciate the way you explored the topic without judgement. I consider myself a Christian and I go to church sometimes. The thing about church though is that you can have a bad, or unfulfilling experience at one, but feel completely different at another. I think of it like dating, I try one out for a while and then stay/commit or breakup based on how things go. But, all the while I maintain my personal rel’ship with God.

Also, Priestly huh? We are Pressleys from a certain town in SC too. Probably cousins.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 3:33 pm ¶
Yetunde wrote:

Ahh yes. I remember the first time I “came out” as an atheist to one of my friends (who happens to be Black).

Her exact response: “Dang! Most Black people believe in God!”

Hang in there, fellow POC atheists/agnostics (especially those of you living in the Bible Belt – like me)!

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 3:56 pm ¶
Zahra wrote:

There is so much I love in this post–your thoughts on “cultural Christian,” your use of the covering concept, the general sense of panic when surrounded by the deeply religious and expected to fall in line. (Fortunately, my experiences are mostly with Catholics who — God bless them! –tend not to know the Bible, or think some very strange things are in it. Dormition of Mary, anyone?) And the larger sense of how religion is used to police identity.

Also the point that, yes, secularism has its own culture, and it often runs in families. I would probably be more religious than I am if I didn’t feel like I’d be losing a part of my family culture that matters to me.

I also float in a secular/semi-Christian space: I believe in God, and I draw on my culturally Christian background in matters of morality more than I’m even aware of. But sometimes the divide with churchgoers looms very large.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

My Biblical quote of choice: “Do not put a stumbling block before the blind.” (I learned it from the Hebrew Bible, but hey, it’s in the Christian one too, right?)

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 4:01 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@n – You’ll probably appreciate the next thing I post, though I am a bit concerned about the Christians here. Still trying to figure out how to intro that piece…

@curlyscales –

I can relate.

@Beth –

I did. But some things are unavoidable. So, my family may accept not being religious (as they aren’t either) but all of our extended family isn’t quite as accepting. The job I referred to is one I no longer work for, but it didn’t bother me all that much. It’s just a bit awkward. Again, it was more of a social cost. The ex is an ex for many reasons, and while my boyfriend and best friend are both very Christian, they generally don’t have an issue with my beliefs. But, as I pointed out, things start getting sticker when larger issues are broached.

However, I should also mention that my reception is based on the fact that while I am not a Christian, I still believe in God. My friends who are atheists report a much different reception. So that also affects how much religion I tolerate.

@Lauren O –

My observation was about the after life, specifically, but I understand what you are saying.

@A –

None of those are my experience, so I can’t really speak to them. Hopefully, someone else will contribute.

@atlasien –

If I was pressed — that is, confronted by someone in extreme pain who called directly on me to pray for them — I would do it, absolutely. Their emotional need would be more important than my integrity. But I would feel dishonest later.

I’ve learned that a great way to dance around these situations is to say “my thoughts are with you.” That way, people who don’t believe in prayer can show compassion without being dishonest.

Exactly. I use thoughts/prayers interchangeably but luckily, I am normally not in those situations.

@Jason S. – Thank you.

@Maggie -

I do, however, find that I increasingly miss the sense of community that came with religion. The shared ritual. How the whole thing makes people a part of the neighborhood and brings families together in ways the Neighborhood Association just doesn’t seem to be able to pull off. My husband and I have contemplated bringing any future kids up Unitarian (the church where belief in deity is optional), to get some of that into their lives.

This is very true. One of the things I noticed about L’s life now is that she is very wired into her community as a valued member. It’s a dynamic that many of us have grown away from, but I think there would be immeasurable societal benefits.

@penni brown –

The thing about church though is that you can have a bad, or unfulfilling experience at one, but feel completely different at another. I think of it like dating, I try one out for a while and then stay/commit or breakup based on how things go. But, all the while I maintain my personal rel’ship with God.

I agree. I think for me, the experience at Alpha just crystallized all the other things I was thinking. I also wonder if I had been raised with a religion, would I have been able to believe? I don’t know the answer to that, but I’ve come around to understanding that church can be wonderful and beneficial for some people (like my boyfriend) but doesn’t do much for others.

Also, Priestly huh? We are Pressleys from a certain town in SC too. Probably cousins.

I would not be surprised. I went one year and they whipped out the family tree. Not only was it MURAL sized, it took me forever to locate my grandmother, all the way at the end of a branch on the far side of the tree. Her kids weren’t even on there yet, so it goes without saying that we weren’t represented. And the last time I checked, there were about ten different surnames in that area that are related to us, so there’s a high chance we actually are related.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 4:22 pm ¶
Lisa wrote:

Another black woman who doesn’t/didn’t go to church…

I recently started going to a Unity church (it’s different from Unitarian) in the Seattle area. It’s a denomination included in the “New Thought” movement. Kinda loosey-goosey from the Baptist perspective I was raised in, but I feel much more comfortable there.

They don’t have a hard-and-fast concept of how to experience God. No one is interested in forcing you to their perspective, either. I’ve been told this has to do with many of their members having been burned by the dogmatic demands of people in other denominations. (Like you said, the ‘you’re going to hell, sinner’ attitudes you’ve encountered.)

Some of the flexibility in thought may be because this is the Pacific Northwest. Apparently it’s an area infamous for the large number of “unchurched” people (no arrogance in that phrase!). It’s not a church I imagine has a large presence in the Bible Belt.

The thing that clinched my positive feeling about my local branch of this church was when I mentioned the book “Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ’s Childhood Pal” by Christopher Moore. The pastor was amused, and the board of directors member said it was one of her favorite books.

I figured if they could handle the irreverence of that book, they might be people I could get along with.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 4:47 pm ¶
DanL wrote:

Don’t really have much to say, just that this was truly one of the best posts I’ve read here.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 5:02 pm ¶
Cindy wrote:

I can identify in the aspect of covering. My family knows I’m gay but they don’t know I’m Buddhist (and have been for almost 17 yrs). One is just a sin that can be forgiven in their eyes. The other is a total rejection of faith and an invitation to certain eternal damnation.

I’ve decided I don’t want to be in another relationship with a Christian because my faith/practice just gets buried. In a land where so many voice mail messages end in, “have a blessed day” openness about non-Judeo-Christian beliefs can be a risky proposition.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 5:03 pm ¶
n wrote:

What I hate most is lying to people I care about. I don’t want them to find out one day that I’ve been faking it and think that I was intentionally trying to fool them or that I mock their beliefs. Im quite tolerant and think religion and faith can be a quite useful balm for the soul. I’ve been known to comfort people by stating that they are Christians (since most here are) and that the Bible says this or that, and since they believe that they should feel comforted or encouraged.

But I HATE that with that there comes the pretense that I believe. I don’t ever say I do, but it is assumed and I do absolutely nothing to discourage people from making that assumption. I hate deceiving people. But I’ve discovered that if my choices are pass and survive or be flagrant and face hostility, pass it is.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 5:28 pm ¶
Lola wrote:

When I was young I’d answer truthfully and tell people I was an atheist. I’ve since learned that this is not a good idea as all but 1 person I’ve ever told has reacted with anger, fear, hatred or pity. My mother was raised Catholic but has been an atheist my entire life. I was baptized to appease my grandmother. I cannot lie so mostly I am evasive. My mother has advised me to either tell people I was baptized Catholic or that I’m an agnostic. There is some evidence that people find agnoticism less threatening, several friends who I told I was atheist, insist years later that I told them I was agnostic. Appearantly it is hard for their minds to reconcile who I am as a person with what they consider Atheist to be. I tried attending one of those “Free thougth” meetings but everyone there was white. Dating is a hassle. Men only want to use me for sex, they say could never commit to a nonChristian. I am a black atheist unicorn. I’m not supposed to exist.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 5:39 pm ¶
Adrianna wrote:

Great post as always,but i must ask why cover LDP ? why purpose does it accomplish?Does it not get tiring after a while?

I was raised supposedly catholic not by choice, because In Haiti all the good school are catholic and they love to shame you when you are not or kick you out if you practice non christian religions. Never really frequented church and thank goodness for that. As a satanist(well this what they call atheists in this christian country) lol . I am finally getting to feel peace. I have read the stories of the bible and read revelations because it scared me shitless as a child.lol

My family thinks i have lost it and so does d everyone else, but I get joy from being an atheist. If I did religious covering I’d be forced to go to church and really do not like church ! It’s soul draining to me . So I’m upfront about it all. I get the concept of cultural christian which I still am . The other day I almost fell and said Good god when asked why I still do it I told them that ridding oneself of bad habits takes time.

I’m all for religious freedom , But would prefer to partner with someone who is a secular humanist.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 6:06 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:

Really well written.
As a black atheist raised as an agnostic I can relate to a lot here. Though it is a bit different revealing that you don’t believe in a higher power of any kind (even the parents who raised me as an agnostic were a bit taken aback) the matter of “Saying Grace”seems to out us all. At least 85% of what I know about Christianity came through art so I can draw you a picture (or at least describe it) but I sure as . . . heck, can’t quote much scripture. Hats off.

The reception of an avowed non-believer by my extended family of Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists and a few Southern Baptists has been more or less the same across the board. A lifetime of performance art and heavy metal and experimental film projects may have prepped them for me being Not Quite Right, but there is still lots of pity and really great suggestions like “You need to find Jesus” and “If you’d only listen to to Reverend X” and “Have you thought about hell? You should.” In all honesty, I do appreciate the concern. But I look forward to the day when black atheists and agnostics (and atheists and agnostics of every color) are normalized and just left alone. I hope I don’t have to wait until I’m burning in hell for that to happen.

Interestingly enough, the idea that all Black Americans are Christian has been an excellent export. I’ve disappointed gospel enthusiasts in Munich and London by not having gone to a church with a mind-blowing choir (sometimes I’m disappointed too – mind-blowing choir sure would have beaten my Dad’s post-Sunday brunch lite jazz).

It was a lot harder to explain than I ever would have imagined.

@ Lola
I almost described myself as a unicorn too. You are breaking my heart. I don’t know what else to say other than dating is HARD and I hope you find some acceptance in your space.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 6:41 pm ¶
9jah wrote:

Latoya,

Whatever the outcome of the seeking, I think your open and truthful approach to the whole thing is mindblowing. By the way, about your next piece, if you’re objective (which you always appear to be) I don’t see anyone being upset about your impressions/experiences.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 6:50 pm ¶
Ruchama wrote:

“I’ve decided I don’t want to be in another relationship with a Christian because my faith/practice just gets buried. In a land where so many voice mail messages end in, “have a blessed day” openness about non-Judeo-Christian beliefs can be a risky proposition.”

The people who end messages with “have a blessed day” are not Judeo-Christian, they are just Christian.

Great post. It seems like a lot of Christians seem to think that, since cultural Christianity is fairly universal, knowledge about Christianity must be, too. I remember several English and History classes in high school where I realized years later that I had completely missed the point that the teacher or book was trying to make, because they were referring to Christian allusions that just flew over my head.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 7:39 pm ¶
Ulysses wrote:

“Christianity” as a practice, left the precepts of the Christ behind for good, at the Council of Nicea. Nearly everything one would characterize as “christian” in terms of your experience is nothing of the sort. In fact most of it is simply standard human social norming that takes place in almost any context. The context religion is simply a pretext to allow them be more aggressive about their attempts to make you conform, than would be permissible under any other circumstances.

My father was a graduate of Princeton Theological seminary. Seriously informed (if esoteric) discussions by people pursuing it as a lifework, were a background to my life for the first 20 years. Genuinely knowledgeable religious and biblical scholars KNOW that current “christianity” is a cobbled together creole of religious practices and so far from the substance of its core revelation as to be (to put it nicely) “mumbo-jumbo”. You reject what you have experienced because you intuitively recognize it to be false. This is a good thing. It tells you that your faculties are intact and functioning. You will need them when you encounter your own spiritual moment.

If you want to know trouble, ostracism and the whole gamut of what stepping outside of the faith means; try being a black 12 year old son of a NATIONAL executive in the Presbyterian church, and publicly saying “you don’t know any REAL christians” (on second thought if anything like this is possible for you, DON’T do this).

There is Christianity being practiced today, it’s just not in any church I know of. Seek and ye shall find…

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 7:44 pm ¶
dejamorgana wrote:

Thank you for this amazing post, Latoya. I’ve gone through a lot of the same problems as an atheist Jew – which is to say, zero belief in God, but culturally Jewish. You can’t ever really get away from it, can you?

My wife is a Christian black woman who has the same kind of issues with her faith. She believes, but in a very private, individual way, and since we came to America, she hasn’t found a church she feels comfortable with, so she goes to different churches with friends maybe once a year. People are always trying to get her into a church, and it seems like everywhere we go there’s some religious element going on.

People are blessing us and praying for us everywhere we turn, saying Grace when we sit down to eat a community picnic. At our daughter’s summer camp this year, the kids were doing a play about Noah’s Ark and dancing to songs about praising God. (The Jewish ones were not only just as religious, but twice as expensive). And last year when we had my wife’s mother staying with us, she spent a lot of her time giving our daughter all the religious teaching we had apparently been neglecting to give her, including lessons on how I was definitely going to Hell when I died.

Most people aren’t quite as outspoken in their disapproval of my heathen ways – but you can definitely pick up on a disapproving vibe almost all the time. They’re wondering what’s going to happen to our girls. They’re thinking it’s not natural. If it wasn’t bad enough that (as an interracial couple) one of us stands out in any crowd, we have just about everybody worrying about our daughters’ spiritual health because of our shocking neglect.

It’s so comforting to hear that other people go through the same things as us. Thank you.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 8:11 pm ¶
7thangel wrote:

the amount of times i’ve been questioned with the ‘how can a black man not be a christian/go to church’ would have you think that it worse than skin bleaching/trying to pass as far as blackness. folks i knew that were in transition from being slack christians to possibly becoming muslims or rastas were given the same treatment.

i can’t shake the initial indoctrination (baptist) so i still somewhat believe in god, moreso than not, but i don’t believe in the bible, torah or koran and i would be damned if i was to follow a religion forced upon my ancestors by their evil enslavers (that goes for islam too) and i have no qualms telling family members and others when asked

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 8:18 pm ¶
Rebecca Linz wrote:

Really interesting article. The anecdote about explaining Easter reminds me of the David Sedaris short story in which his French language class tries to explain in their pathetic French the definition of Easter to the Muslim student in the class. It’s really funny.

After identifying strongly as a proud atheist for most of my life, I have joined a Unitarian Universalist congregation, but I still struggle to say the “C-word” (church). As a “liberal religion,” our minister is one of the very few POC UU ministers in existence, and she is fabulous and I feel extremely lucky to belong to this congregation.

I am half Jewish though I wasn’t raised Jewish, and I can “pass.” It took me a while to realize that some women I met in a lesbian group were trying to be friendly with me because they thought I was Jewish — once I corrected them, they no longer invited me to their synagogue — or anything else either.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 8:19 pm ¶
n wrote:

@Lola
Platypus here, not just on the religion thing though. I exist, more of me exist, but most people think its reallly odd.

How can one person manage to not fit in at all in any category that she belongs to? Wrong race, color, religion, gender, culture etc to be accepted totally. If there were a God, he’d have to do a LOT of explaining to me because this is some BS.

My 13 year old has decided she is an atheist, Im sure my mother will be furious because I was supposed to be taking them to church so when they got older they’d have something to fall back on. Fuck that. Fall back on reality not pipe dreams and fairy tales and the fatalistic belief that all will turn out well, and if not well at least when youa re DEAD it will be ok. I hope I dont have to teach her to lie about it and can move before it gets that serious.

Lots of lighting and a thunderstorm here. My lights are flickering. I’ve offended god.:) He should be happy, I just paid a grip to one of his schools and am about to go over the weeks bible verses and songs with my daughter. LOL

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 8:44 pm ¶
Titanis walleri wrote:

“I see religion as a tool, kind of like a knife.”
Religion is more like fire, imo. Kept within proper boundaries, it can be helpful. Left unchecked, it runs rampant and causes wholesale destruction.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 9:41 pm ¶
Thanks wrote:

Thanks for writing this ,very well written and sincere, I had a similar experience with an Ex, it was no fun. I know that covering makes life easier, but if we all do it how will we find each other ? I do not come from a very religious family, but we all believe in God… I just want to be with someone who is not going to judge me. The irony of it is I live a lifestyle that is way more straight edge then any of the Christians I know.

Next time someone looks at me sideways and quizzes me for not being christian , I am going to start quizzing them right back, (even though I really don’t care )

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 10:38 pm ¶
Allison wrote:

You know, now that I think about it, there never WAS an Easter Rugrats special (and I watched it religiously, mind you. ) However, I specifically remember there being a Hanu-I mean Chanukah one-with Angelica emphasizing the name by saying “It’s not Hanukkah, it’s CHAnukah! You gotta CHA when you say it”. And I briefly remember there being something about Kwanzaa as well because Suzie and her family celebrated it.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 10:45 pm ¶
9jah wrote:

I think Latoya engaged a very touchy subject in a serious and contemplative way. I believe it would be really helpful and encourage participation from everyone if the comments don’t devolve into snark and condescension of the Flying Spaghetti Monster variety! (to be clear, not underming FSM as an argument point but but just saying the thread is not about the validity of religion per se)

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 10:46 pm ¶
Sophia wrote:

Thank you for the fantastic post!

Personally: I feel like I ought to feel closer with religion than I actually do, but it consistently feels foreign to me. My family emigrated to the US in the early 90s, and although they are not particularly religious, I was enrolled in a Christian school. The ties between a community and it’s dominant religion always manages to stun me, and I feel rather envious of not only the ties religion creates, but also the sense of comfort and assurance it provides to it’s believers.

No doubt I would join a church, but I cannot help but to think so much of scripture is metaphorical. I could not bring myself to join people who are literal in definition when I am so flexible in my own. I wish I could have more faith in things, but alas, I do not think I have the capacity.

Also, your reference to Sandman makes me happy.

Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 11:10 pm ¶
Katie wrote:

Latoya,
That was a really great article, as usual. I know we all have to sleep… but, you should write a book. seriously.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 12:42 am ¶
hola wrote:

Just a thought: there is a difference between not being raised in a religion and being ignorant of major religious practices. I’m not Jewish but I know about High Holidays and Yom Kippur and Passover Seder. I’m not Zoroastrian but I know about Parsis and Fire temples. I am not Buddhist but I know about Samsara and Boddhisatvas. I don’t know, I definitely found the intro to the piece a bit jarring. It’s almost as if Latoya was bragging about being ignorant of Christianity. When is bragging about ignorance a good thing? One can try to dissasociate oneself from a religion that had no part in one’s life at any moment, but doing so by profession ignorance of major religious events carried on every year in the media and all over society? You never saw any Easter movies on TV? Never had a Christian (Protestant or Catholic) friend who celebrated Easter? NEver came across the basic story of Jesus’ life in any of your readings? Ever? I mean, I went to super secular American public schools, but we still had to learn about the history of Christianity as well as different kinds of Islam and Jainism and Hasidic Jews and such in History and Social Studies classes. This all seems peculiar to me. I am not really a practicing Christian at all, but this all seem so bizarre, sorry if I seem judgy!

@Allison: The creators of the The Rugrats (as well as most of the characters in the show) are Jewish. I remember that Hannukah episode well, lol, it was pretty good. It was pretty revolutionary to see a non-Christian religious holiday given so much airtime in a mainstream American show, for kids no less. There are a million Easter and Christmas themed cartoons anyway.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 1:16 am ¶
hola wrote:

“by professing ignorance”…ugh, i suck lol.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 1:17 am ¶
kopekler wrote:

@ Latoya – Beautiful and thoughtful piece.

Your story reminds me of when I was growing up in Utah. I told so many people I was Christian, even though my family is not any religion, just to keep the peace/be left alone. I hate it that I had to hide what I truly thought, but the few times I was honest resulted in missionaries coming to my house

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 6:19 am ¶
ACW wrote:

Very well written. I’m looking forward to the next post!

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 7:45 am ¶
Ebony wrote:

@ hola: I personally didn’t get the impression that Latoya was bragging about not being familiar with christianity. I was more put off by the response of the person she was talking to.

“What kind of black person are you?”

Someone actually questioned her blackness because she didn’t attend church! That’s what I would call ignorant.

I feel that you’re taking the same approach by saying it’s perculiar that she didn’t learn about christianity in school. I too attended “super secular American public schools” and religion was glossed over at best. Everyone’s experience is different.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 9:32 am ¶
gatamala wrote:

“Christianity” as a practice, left the precepts of the Christ behind for good, at the Council of Nicea. Nearly everything one would characterize as “christian” in terms of your experience is nothing of the sort. In fact most of it is simply standard human social norming that takes place in almost any context. The context religion is simply a pretext to allow them be more aggressive about their attempts to make you conform, than would be permissible under any other circumstances.

I’m an atheist who likes to have theological discussions too. I have encountered people who emphasize that they are not Christians, but are followers of Jesus. On a philosophical level, I can empathize.

To all of those who have been de-blacked or ostracized, I have literally been called a Satan worshipper. My uncle feels sorry for me. I have had people want to “pray” for me (gotta love prayer as a weapon). I feel you. I grew up inundated with Baptist sayings and culture (even though my parents came from other denoms). Don’t cover, Don’t hide. You can have a respectful talk with your family. It was hard for my uncle to hear (he said my father spit in their parents face basically), but c’est la vie.

The way people react to honesty really tells you what their heart is really about.

I used to be an agnostic. Partly because my parents didn’t want me to say the A word, but I’m “out” now so to speak. I know many people are various forms of agnostic. But there are many who are trying to ease their way out of the religious closet.

Last year I bowed my head during the prayer at my federal job (illegal). Next year I will step out like my Jewish coworker (at least they do put up decorations for him) and celebrate the winter solstice & Mithras.

Part of humanity is diversity in thought, belief and action. We [blacks] render ourselves inhuman when we are complicit in propogating false monoliths.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 10:08 am ¶
Allison wrote:

Love this article! I grew up a heretic in East TN and got saved and then got bitterly angry that there was no climactic mystical moment following it. In many ways my life journey has brought me round to know many Christian brothers and sisters who are open, inclusive, and filled with a vision for social justice. I have often heard white people talk about black religion like it is just that- a monolithic reality. Anthony Pinn is a cool dude to read- I read his book Varieties of African American Religious Experience in a class with Melissa Harris-Lacewell in seminary (I am a Unitarian Universalist minister). His reflections of breaking this monolithic stereotype are refreshing.

Baldwin is another great resource. What a beautiful man who clearly was a profound feeler and thinker FILLED with soul. He has some great critical essays on “black religion.” Pardon me as I wax academic. Thank you for sharing this piece and your story.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 11:09 am ¶
Ray wrote:

Great Article! I loved the analogy with the knife.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 12:24 pm ¶
Big Man wrote:

This was very well done Latoya.
While we disagree on faith, you remind me of my best friend who seems to share many of your feelings about religion and church.
I hope you find what you need, and if you have already found it, I hope it brings you happiness.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 1:13 pm ¶
foshothoyo wrote:

@Lola + unicorn/platypuses: word. it is not easy to find strength alone, but understand that there are many others out there who are atheist. the problem is, atheists don’t have a meeting place that is tax-free. Why would people come together who don’t believe in religion? By its nature, i think atheism precludes “religious community”, which means that you can’t generate a tax-free income from donations, etc… to establish an atheist institution, or to become atheist missionaries.

IMO, religion is about creating a corporate entity through donated cashflow that produces a support structure that sustains collectively asserted fantasies which provide relief from the pain of reality for the members. (in short)

Also, I refuse to let anyone define my blackness for me. i am a black atheist. As such, i am angry that the black community is and has been exploited by the salesmen of religion in many ways (i.e. the prosperity pimps/preachers). I think that the false hope provided by religion ties their hands instead of motivating collective action. (in most cases)

If i could do anything to contribute to the unshackling of black folks from the mental atrophy that religiosity causes, it would be to suggest two books.

1) Sources of the African Past by David Robinson and Douglas Smith

2) The Kongolese St. Anthony by John Thornton

The first book is a compilation of primary sources that shows how both islam and christianity were introduced to african civilizations with their own spiritual systems, and were adopted or integrated or rejected along with with impossibly complex political, social, and economic forces.

The second book is about a Kongolese woman named Dona Beatriz Kimpa Vida (note the portugese influence) who started what is called the Antonian movement, which (in brief) was an attempt to use the imposition and spread of catholicism among Kongolese peoples to motivate their own freedom. Slaves who were a part of this movement staged a failed revolt in the United States, after which no Kongolese catholic slaves were bought by whites out of fear.

These two books helped me understand the complexities of religion in the context of my african heritage, and contextualized the black church in reference to slavery, white supremacy, and a “scripture of subservience”. While I understand that religion was a large part of the civil rights movement, and also a part of emancipation, etc. I feel that it was only because there was no other way for blacks to congregate outside of church without being harassed that the church became a place to find strength and motivate solidarity in struggle. That dynamic does not hold true anymore, and I think it is time we looked back at our history with fresh eyes and the courage to investigate why “black christian faith” has become what it is today.

@ Latoya: I think what that whole thing about the meaning of life being 42 is a reference to the Zen concept of “Mu”, a concept which has helped me through the perils of nihilist absurdism that followed my recovery from a childhood brainwashing by the cult of evangelical christianity. Zen Buddhism, while not my faith, taught me a lot about dealing with impermanence and uncertainty without a big human father/king-archetype in the sky. It may be interesting to you and others.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 2:46 pm ¶
Alyssa wrote:

Lotoya,
Great article (I’ve always loved your writing)!!!
I don’t live in a bible belt area, nor am I black, so my experiences differ from yours, but I do relate to a lot of what you are speaking about. I’m comfortable with my friends enough to be unapologetically non-religious. My family and in-laws all know that I don’t attend church and at least suspect that I don’t believe in god, but they avoid the topic (and I’m happy to avoid it as well), so I think they can go about denying this fact. But when it comes to co-workers and random people I meet throughout the day, I cover as best as I can. I just don’t know how they will react. Usually it isn’t a big deal, but it gets hard when someone suggests I use a church day care, or asks if my child is baptized. How am I supposed to answer questions like that without outright lying or having the conversation devolve into how I’m an amoral person who’s going to hell and sending my child to hell too?
Like you, I have no problem with religion, but I really wish so many people would stop assuming that everyone without horns and a pitchfork is a Christian and anyone who doesn’t base their life on a book, must be amoral.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 3:13 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:

(I thought it was platypi?)

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 3:33 pm ¶
srenee wrote:

this was the most powerful and poignant piece I have read in quite some time. I guess it is because I heard myself in almost every word. I haven’t much to say except thank you for expressing in words the confusion I (and a lot of Black people) have in not being religious. It’s nice to think I’m not alone with this issue. Although, dealing with covering my shaky deism from my very Christian church-going family for the last 13 years lead me to move to France. I was so tired of pretending to be something I’m not. Anywho, thanks for this!

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 5:31 pm ¶
foshothoyo wrote:

haha i have no idea…

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 8:13 pm ¶
mile wrote:

I really want to read all the commentary on this post, but I’m going to have to wait until the weekend to do so. Anyway, . . .
I liked it, but I don’t think I understood it. I’m black, yes, and I am Christian, yes. But I’ve never had any of the feelings expressed here. I think a large part of it is that I’m not a Protestant. I don’t have an exact grouping; I favor the Eastern Orthodox Church, but I mostly attend Catholic mass because it fits my schedule.
I’ve never felt rejected by black people because I don’t know a single hymn, because I cannot quote the Bible on demand. Well, actually, I went to a day care center where we were to memorize various verses and I could never do it, but then I felt unintelligent, not rejected as too secular. My sister, who is agnostic, has never been rejected by black people for her lack of belief.
Maybe it’s because I’m young, perhaps the tide is turning, but I’ve never seen religion as a barrier in relationships, platonic or romantic. With the possible exception of a couple planning to have children and raise them within one religion or the other, I can’t fully understand how it could be a legitimate issue. I do admit that when an SO or interest believes in God, I take some comfort in it. There’s a small thought in my mind that he believes in the same God as I, but I’ve had the same thought with members of every Abrahamic religion, and I feel that it’s more from the fact that I take comfort in esprit de corps, and it feels then that we have both taken part in some universal thought. It extends to similarities in philosophies as well.

This bit though, bothered me:
“One of the things I often envy about my more religious friends is that they have peace. Or more specifically, a belief, one that allows them to just know the answers to the questions about the after life.”
I was actually thinking about this last night and writing about it this morning, so it bothered me a bit more than it used to. There is an assumption inherent in it that religious people are not thinking people. What started me thinking about it was a bit of Hemingway, in As the Sun Rises, on the train, where he feels jealous of the religious believers (I think he “covers” in this scene). Religious people are not necessarily “at peace.” They do not necessarily feel that they “know the answers.” Plenty of us have to wonder and theology is hardly clear. I don’t just mean those of us who doubt. There’s a reason why people dedicate their lives to the study of religion. There’s a lot to study, and the answers are not clearly given.

Hmm, every time I read something about black Christian faith or the black community on Racialicious, I feel more and more that I am not a part of it.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 8:40 pm ¶
Joy wrote:

I’m really enjoying this series!

I’m a Christian and the concept of religious covering is very interesting to me. I see from this article and the comments why this can seem necessary, but doesn’t it make things complicated? If people think you are X and they are too, won’t they say/do things that make you feel uncomfortable, but that they think is appropriate? I don’t know, maybe not, just a thought . . . Maybe this would be preferable to being treated as strange.

America as a culturally Christian nation – very true. I find it interesting how “majority” religions shape different societies to varying degrees.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 9:11 pm ¶
thewayoftheid wrote:

Man, do I love this post.

As a black agnostic, I struggle with this on the daily. Add a mother who didn’t “come to Christ” until I was in adulthood, several friends and relatives with backgrounds deeply rooted in their respective (Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, etc.) and you have a lot of awkward conversations and uncomfortable silences.

Every few months or so, my mother and I will have “the talk” about how I need to seek God before its too late. The conversation always ends with me hurrying her off the phone. The few times I went to church with her I found myself wincing quite a bit whenever the topics of female submission and homosexuality arose. My mother wanted her pastor to marry my husband and I; we went to the courthouse instead.

My husband’s family? Even more religious than my mother. Homosexuality is a sin, suicide is a sin, and Tyler Perry is a genius. They pray before each meal and family outing. Being around them can be a bit uncomfortable at times.

Thankfully, as my husband is agnostic, I don’t have to deal with this at home. But I know that when we have children, the pressure to convert will be on. And I’m sure there will be fallout.

Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 11:51 pm ¶
9jah wrote:

@foshothoyo:

“As such, i am angry that the black community is and has been exploited by the salesmen of religion in many ways (i.e. the prosperity pimps/preachers). I think that the false hope provided by religion ties their hands instead of motivating collective action. (in most cases).”

First, I appreciate your insights regarding the influence of white paternalistic culture on the adoption of certain religious systems among black people, past to present. I am also of the mind that blind adherence needs to be rejected in favor of examination and inquiry. That said I arrive at a different place than you do on some points.

For better or worse, I think we should ascribe to people full agency concerning their beliefs. To be sure there are opportunists and crooks in religion but I don’t think “exploitation” is a good fit. People exercise free choice in going to sit in a place of worship and typically the tenets of any major faith are in texts available to all.

Religions generally do not, in concept, preclude getting your butt up to make things happen. Rather, I think failure in collective action is rooted in problems that exist regardless and are merely manifest in the religious subset as well. I think this is important to note because black folks needn’t be conflicted about Christianity or islam if they truly find these faiths instructive. As you noted Zen Buddhism has helped you. Different things help different people.

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 12:04 am ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:

Thanks for this insightful article, Latoya! Christianity can be such a conundrum! If you don’t subscribe to it, you’re ostracized. If you aren’t the ‘right kind’ of Christian, you still get it from all sides. Although I was raised Christian and, as an adult, still identify as Christian, I often engage in covering. People assume all sorts of things about blackness + Christianity that are just not apart of my personal life/belief system and it gets frustrating to correct their assumptions all the time so I just…go along. On the flip side, for a large chunk of my life I attended a school where atheisim/agnosticism/cultural Judaism was the norm while being a practicing Christian was bizarre. It is extremely difficult to define what your own beliefs are when there is constant pressure to conform to what your community expects.
Incidentally, I’d finally found a worship environment that was diverse (?!), not predominantly female (not that there’s anything wrong with that, but still uncommon in my experience), in which I could actually explore my faith but I had to move. Oh well.

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 10:53 am ¶
Winn wrote:

Thanks, Latoya, for a deeply insightful and resonant piece. I could relate to so much of it, especially having been agnostic as a child in a family of believers so fervent that we did not go to doctors, women did not wear pants or make up, pierced ears were a sin, and my grandmother pastored several days a week from our family church, built just a few feet from the house in which I was born. As a agnostic child who became a practicing Witch at 14, I “covered” until I was an expert at it, and given the fact that I am interested in religion as an academic subject and attended a Catholic university where religious courses were mandatory, I know various versions of the Bible far better than my Christian relatives. To this day, only my closest family know that I am Pagan; I do not make a point of discussing it, but I am not a bit ashamed and will speak of it when asked. As Tami mentioned, my spiritual practice is private and my business, only open to those I choose to share it with. But if confessing that your relationship to Christianity is ambivalent at best earns you community opprobium, imagine what admitting that you practice a misunderstood religion that is equated with evil, child sacrifice and abuse, curses, and devil worship will do to your standing (this operates outside the black community as well. Its hard out here for a Witch). The closest I get to declaring myself openly are that I always wear a pentacle somewhere on my person, and I have been known to sport the occasional “My other car is a broom” or “Blessed Be” bumper sticker.

I find myself using culturally Christian language (”Oh my goddess” just sounds silly) and am generally very respectful in religious discussions with others. I will try to explain why Christianity is not a workable belief system for me and why a magickal world view is much more resonant, without dismissing their beliefs at all. I will acknowledge the enormous influence and central role of the black church in community, education, the fight for social and economic justice, and its influence on African American arts, etc. But I will not shy from criticizing its silence on or encouragement of homophobia, misogny, health care misinformation and often emotional dependence. I refuse to be sucked into justifying my blackness according to someone else’s arbitrary standard, and demand the right to define myself spiritually, as I do in all other aspects of my life. I figure that by living my life openly and proudly if not flagrantly, and responding honestly and without fear when questioned, I can strike my own little blow against one of the most entrenched aspects of the “black community as monolith” meme.

By the way, Latoya, did you ever discover the origins of Easter? Did you discover that the name Easter is derived from an Anglo-Saxon goddess, Eostre, reconstructed by the Grimm’s as Ostara? She was a goddess of fertility, hence eggs and hares as her sacred symbols. Her feast days coincided with the vernal equinox and the first full moon occurring after it, and the early Christian church, looking to keep this celebration of Christ’s resurrection separate from the celebration of Passover, simply Christianized a pagan practice which occurred at around the same time they estimated Christ had been reborn. There are many more scholarly sources to research this, but here’s a link to a very informative article to start with: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-big-question-why-do-we-celebrate-easter-and-where-did-the-bunny-come-from-443550.html

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 12:15 pm ¶
JL wrote:

As a mixed atheist (though I realize that you are not yourself an atheist), I enjoyed reading this.

Another side of this: I have white-passing privilege – most people do not realize that I’m part-Latina – and if I reveal my background, I get the most shock from white atheists and agnostics, who assume that all Latin@s are devout Catholics.

For those of you who are non-theists, check out Atheist Nexus, the non-theist social networking site. It has a group for Bible Belt non-theists (and smaller groups for people from different states and cities in that region), a couple of active black groups, a Latin America group, and a race relations discussion group, among many others.

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 12:44 pm ¶
Tami wrote:

Latoya,

This is a wonderful post and I related to a lot of it. I was raised in a Christian home of the “maybe we’ll go to church on Easter” variety. That story about being forced to offer your favorite scripture made me sweat.

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 2:42 pm ¶
Tami wrote:

I’ve thought about this a little more and I think what makes not embracing what is considered “typical” black religious devotion is that attempts to “live and let live” are often one-sided, as many Christians (certainly not all) embrace prosyletizing as a part of their faith.

It sounds like my beliefs are somewhat similar to yours, Latoya. I don’t believe that church is a mandatory part of spiritual life. Lately, my sister, who has always been more religious than I, has begun attending church more often. As part of that, she has started pressuring me to attend. I have gently explained my views to no avail. I would never dream of trying to talk a church-going friend or family member (and I have several) out of practicing their faith in the way they feel most comfortable. I would like to expect the same courtesy. Alas, I find that I don’t get it.

I “cover” in order to make things comfortable for others, yet those others have no problem making things uncomfortable for me. It makes religion very alienating.

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 4:25 pm ¶
Cat_chemist wrote:

I’m Catholic and I am definitely of the twice a year variety. I remember hiding in my closet with my sister to avoid church.

@JL, what does a latino/a look like? Not all people from latin american countries are brown. There are many latino/as who “pass” as white because many are indeed white or primarily white. Latino/as come in all colours.

Posted 28 Aug 2009 at 8:40 pm ¶
Afro-chan wrote:

Well written essay. In high school (during the 90’s) whenever I met a black friend’s/boyfriend’s parents the usual questions included the following:
1) Where do you live?
2) Where are your parents from?
3) What church do you go to?

It was always so uncomfortable because my response to #3 was, “I don’t go to church.” You could hear the needle screeching to halt on the record. After fussing, various personal questions and such I would get invited to church and offered a baptism. One mom in particular thought I was Satan’s spawn. I could not wait for college.

Posted 29 Aug 2009 at 4:50 am ¶
NancyP wrote:

Latoya, as soon as you mentioned “Alpha” I thought “uh-oh”. The Alpha course has been a mainstay of Christian adult education in the evangelical churches for the last generation. It is the creation of a London Anglican clergyman of the “Low Church” type, as opposed to the “High Church” with its preference for “smells and bells” (use of Roman Catholic-like elaborate liturgy), saints, and history. (Actually, most of the congregations of the Church of England, and the current bishops/archbishops fall into the “Broad Church” category midway between the two extremes.) This clergyman wanted to add the mid-1970s American “Jesus movement” charismatic practice to the evangelist and simplifying tendencies of the Low Church – basically, make his congregation into an Anglican equivalent of Pentecostal Assemblies of God, and then try to change other congregations’ practices by the means of providing ready-made adult education kits, the Alpha Course, which over time morphed into an adult education course for seekers and new converts, presenting mostly “mainstream” popular theological interpretation and avoiding controversy over denominational differences.

The Alpha Course differs from the older Christian formation courses by its emphasis on charismatic (Pentecostal) practice, and an attitude of certainty and absence of mystery characteristic of its American Pentecostal origins. There is a corresponding conservative slant in some of the associated course material.

Alpha is not the best introduction to Christianity for the intellectual atheist, agnostic, or unchurched believer in a deity, if the seeker is not looking for a ready-made source of rules to follow. It may be a great introduction to the sociology and experience of average evangelical conservatives and middle-of-the-road Christians, since the courses have become extremely common in those types of churches.

Posted 29 Aug 2009 at 4:11 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

I should also mention psychologist James Fowler’s work on developmental aspects of religious belief. A summary, written in non-academic style, is “Stages of Faith: The Psychology of Human Development ” (1981).

This has been an enlightening and civil discussion (hats off to LP).

Posted 29 Aug 2009 at 4:29 pm ¶
mile wrote:

Now that I’ve thought about it (and still agree with the heart of the post), I still have another problem with it, and it’s the same one that Hola had.
Cultural illiteracy (eg: Not knowing what Easter is) is not a good way to reject a religion. Really, I think not knowing what Easter, a major Christian holiday, is about is more willfully ignorant that culturally illiterate, it just presents a bigger problem than not knowing what Diwali is because of the cultural importance of Christianity.
I’m sorry if Christianity is the particular religion you’ve rejected and thus you feel more victimized by its prevalence in our culture, but religion, according to many social scientists, is the second biggest component of culture (after language), but if you were move to, say, India, you’d have to know about Hinduism.

“It seems like a lot of Christians seem to think that, since cultural Christianity is fairly universal, knowledge about Christianity must be, too. I remember several English and History classes in high school where I realized years later that I had completely missed the point that the teacher or book was trying to make, because they were referring to Christian allusions that just flew over my head.”
This isn’t a fair criticism of Christian culture. A teacher shouldn’t have to tell you what she or he is talking about if s/he says “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” And Christian motifs show up in English and History a lot more than Dickensian ones.

Have to cut it short, but good discussion.

Posted 29 Aug 2009 at 7:39 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@ mile –

Cultural illiteracy (eg: Not knowing what Easter is) is not a good way to reject a religion.

Did you finish reading the piece?

A couple years ago, she asked me to come to her church for an Alpha session, a program designed to give seekers a better understanding of Christianity, specifically focusing on the life of Jesus Christ. Seeing as I didn’t know the origin of Easter, I figured I might as well drag myself to a church and at least get correct, non pop culture saturated knowledge. For a few weeks, I traveled to church after work to have dinner and discussions with other people about the Christian way of life. It was interesting. But there were a couple things that stood out to me.

Posted 30 Aug 2009 at 8:25 am ¶
Ruchama wrote:

“This isn’t a fair criticism of Christian culture. A teacher shouldn’t have to tell you what she or he is talking about if s/he says “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” And Christian motifs show up in English and History a lot more than Dickensian ones.”

But where was I supposed to have learned it? As I got older and realized that there was stuff I was missing, I looked it up, but it’s not fair to expect the same of a 14-year-old. I remember once, in high school, another Jewish friend and I found a Christian Bible in the library to look up what John 3:16 was, since we’d seen in on signs at football games, but when a teacher talking about Grapes of Wrath says something about JC sacrificing himself to save the rest of the people, and smiling as he goes off to prison, I didn’t know where to begin to look to figure that one out, and I wasn’t about to call attention to myself in class by asking.

Posted 30 Aug 2009 at 11:15 am ¶
Anamoly wrote:

Thank you, Latoya, for writing this article. My “blackness” was never questioned due to my non- or quasi- belief, but I have had such bad experiences with christians that I feel it almost would have been better if they had done so, rather than questioning me as to why I don’t believe. I have often felt like an outsider, not just in my family but in my so-called “church family”, because I don’t feel everything that they felt and believed about god. I am what you could call a humanist, and I don’t know if I do believe in a god, but if I had to choose, I would have to say no. The god I’ve heard about is so arbitrary; he decides that one person is worth receiving something, but another is not, and the parameters are whether or not your faith is strong. I just don’t agree that the good and bad in our lives are a result of how much or how little we beilive. I’m just glad to know that I’m not alone in my non-belief.

P.S.-Latoya, I first encountered your writing on Jezebel, and I enjoyed it so that I had to explore you on this site…..I’m so glad that I did. Keep up the great work!

Posted 31 Aug 2009 at 10:18 am ¶
NancyP wrote:

Don’t feel badly, a lot of church-going Christians are appallingly uninformed about the basics.

Posted 31 Aug 2009 at 9:53 pm ¶
mile wrote:

“But where was I supposed to have learned it? As I got older and realized that there was stuff I was missing, I looked it up, but it’s not fair to expect the same of a 14-year-old. I remember once, in high school, another Jewish friend and I found a Christian Bible in the library to look up what John 3:16 was, since we’d seen in on signs at football games, but when a teacher talking about Grapes of Wrath says something about JC sacrificing himself to save the rest of the people, and smiling as he goes off to prison, I didn’t know where to begin to look to figure that one out, and I wasn’t about to call attention to myself in class by asking.”

My knowledge of traditional schooling is somewhat lacking, because I’ve never gone to one (Montessori, then a school into which one must test), but in my (public, urban, not predominately white or well-off) school, you would be expected to have learned all of these things in 7th grade, and most of us knew them long before that. I knew the basics of Judaism and Islam by the time I was 6, as did everyone else in my (public, urban, not predominately white or well-off) school.
Sure you didn’t know, and you shouldn’t have felt bad about asking (the few people in my school who didn’t know these things seemed to have no problem asking) but I believe your schools should have started educating you much, much earlier and I see it this lack of knowledge as more of a sad commentary on what parents and schools are teaching children.
I’m 17, so it’s harder for me to see a 14 year old as someone who doesn’t have to know things and who doesn’t have to look these things up by themselves than it is for an adult to see a 14 year old as such. To me, you’re 14, you can, and should look these things up, and really someone should have told you about them already (or you should have educated yourself). Of course, there are extenuating circumstances, wherein it shouldn’t be expected that you know these things, and if you don’t know what a puja is, it’s not going to hurt your education that much. But major Judeo-Christian motifs, the basics of Greco-Roman mythology? To me, it’s ridiculous for us to not expect the average 14 year old to know that (I began learning Greco-Roman mythology at 6, in my public school). When are we going to start expecting people to be able to look things up? I don’t want to go on a rant about education, but have you seen a standardized test lately? Our standards are just so low. And the reason they have to be so low for high schoolers is because students get behind when they’re younger (according to Teach for America, an insufficient teacher in one’s younger years can set one two grade levels back, and it gets worse as time goes on), going back to my belief that they should have learned about all of these things when they were much younger than 14. But again, I’m 17, so to me a 14 year old isn’t some poor little young thing incapable of looking up Easter in a dictionary.

Sorry if that was terribly disjointed.

Posted 01 Sep 2009 at 12:42 am ¶
dejamorgana wrote:

Ruchama, this stuff happened to me all the time as a Jewish kid in Indiana. Christians almost always assume that everybody knows all the basic tenets of Christianity and most of the stories in the New Testament. It’s just, you know, common knowledge. Right?

Posted 01 Sep 2009 at 6:52 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@mile –

1. Please stop making assumptions about schooling. You are aware that what is considered required knowledge goes state by state, right? And in some states, biblical knowledge would make the cut, while in others (like my very progressive one) the boundary between church and state is heavily protected. Greek myths are not the same as Christian theology – I learned those in the second grade, and we learned about various Native American traditions in the 5th. But our school district would have never willingly negotiated teaching religion in the classroom – it goes into too many questions of rights. (Our district also had a fair amount of religious schools for that very reason.)

If I had grown up further south, or other places where religion is more prominent, they may have taught something different in schools. But where I grew up, church stayed out of the business of the state, and if parents didn’t like that they could send their children to the fairly affordable catholic schools in the area. But you need to remember that education is highly subjective in this country – there are very few things that are standardized.

You keep focusing on one story I told, as if you expect me to jump into a time machine and correct it. But religion didn’t play a role in my life until that point and beyond, so why would I know what the traditions behind Easter were? It didn’t concern me. And if someone asked me why I didn’t know, why wouldn’t the immediate response be to ask them what it is?

Posted 01 Sep 2009 at 8:19 am ¶
Fiqah wrote:

@mile: You seem like an exceptionally bright young person, and I’m really glad that you’ve added your voice to this discussion. That said, I’d like to address a couple of things. (Latoya: apologies for the slight derail.)

1.) As LDP mentioned, educational requirements and standards can often vary dramatically from district to district. You’ve been very fortunate to attend schools that encourage intellectual curiosity and foster independent learning, as Montessori schools do. I attended a Montessori elementary and a world-renowned magnet arts high school with an audition-based admission process myself, but at 17, I never once held the delusion that I was anything but lucky to be where I was. Not once. Please bear in mind that even though the schools you have attended have been public, you are PRIVILEGED to have had these opportunities. They’re a gift – not a given.

2.) I would strongly advise you against making statements to anybody on this thread about how their parents “should have” taught them something you consider basic. It is impolite. I know that you’re young, but you are old enough to know better.

Posted 01 Sep 2009 at 9:28 am ¶
PatrickInBeijing wrote:

Great post, and a very interesting story. I grew up a Southern Baptist, left when I was about 14. These days I lean towards atheism (though some of the atheists I read irritate me as much as theists…. sigh). I used to say I was an agnostic, but many people thought I was ripe for believing. At least if I say I am an atheist, after folks tell me I am going to hell, I am left alone.

In China, of course, I can be an atheist without problems. In America, I had joined the Unitarian Church after leaving the SB’s. We used to joke that Unitarianism was especially good because most of the people didn’t know what it was, they just assumed it was a form of Christianity, and they left you alone. And it was nice to have something to write on the forms.

If I was asked by someone on the religious side of my family or in the South (where I grew up), I would probably still claim to be a Unitarian. Mostly I am not interested in arguing about religion. And I don’t feel I can talk openly about it in America, there is a fear of rejection factor there. At least in certain parts of the country, and with certain family segments. I have one elderly relative who seems to believe I am a missionary. I know this, and don’t say anything. She is old, and I love her, and well, there it is.

When I lived in San Francisco, I worked with issues of poverty sometimes, and worked with a lot of church folks. Most of them never asked. I bowed my head as a sign of respect to them. I volunteered for some time in a homeless shelter located in an African-American Church. Despite not believing, I have the deepest respect for those folks for donating a big chunk of their church building to do what society would not do. I am glad they were there.

I do run into missionaries here, most of them are pretty hateful (unless they need help). They want to tell everyone that all Americans belong to X church (theirs) and I say different things. So, I am twice the devil.

In my family (mostly white), religion seems to be tied into politics. The more liberal are more secular, the more conservative are more religious.

I would be interested in hearing more about whether this is true for POC and folks from various backgrounds (national, religious, cultural as well as racial).

I think this could be a very interesting conversation. But also a very difficult one. Thanks again for opening this door.

Posted 02 Sep 2009 at 12:19 am ¶
barbara wrote:

Interesting article. It was rude of the young man to question your blackness because of your ignorance of Easter and equally surprising that you don’t know what Easter is about, you don’t have to play football to know the quarterback is a prime position.
You’ve had some experiences with some pushy and judgemental Christians, all of us are not like that. Sometimes when people get saved they forget that at one time they could not quote scripture and so-on, but others of us remember and are understanding. It’s like fame-some forget where they came from and others remember. At any rate, I did enjoy reading it.

Posted 03 Sep 2009 at 1:50 pm ¶
MST wrote:

Being a black person who is non-religious is kind of like being a black person who doesn’t like Obama. But that wouldn’t be acceptable here . . .

Posted 17 Sep 2009 at 3:51 pm ¶

Religious Major: Undeclared [Racialigious]

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