Trackbacks & Pings

1. no shortage of handbaskets « Molecular Shyness on 20 Aug 2009 at 12:14 am

   [...] @ Racialicious [...]

2. Tim Wise On Race And The Health Care Debate » Sociological Images on 23 Aug 2009 at 11:28 am

   [...] Watch the whole 7 minutes, or skip the intro by fast forwarding to 1 minute, 20 seconds: Via Racialicious. [...]

3. RISE Round-up: Race and Health Care Reform, the Digital Divide, a Children’s Protest, & more « RISE: Social Work in an Era of Change on 23 Aug 2009 at 9:07 pm

   [...] over Race and Health Care Reform On Racialicious, an open thread on the link between race and the healthcare protests.  The CNN segment they embed is interesting, [...]

4. Tim Wise breaks down race & the health care debate « Life of a Gaander on 03 Sep 2009 at 2:17 am

   [...] Via Racialicious. [...]

5. Time Wise breaks down the race & health care debate… « Life of a Gaander on 03 Sep 2009 at 2:18 am

   [...] Via Racialicious. [...]

Comments

1. atlasien wrote:

   “The white man is the Jew of liberal fascism”

   Source. Mockery of Source.

   These people really believe that statement. This current masterful stoking of white resentment has been amazing (and depressing) to watch.

   The silver lining is that as much as these Hitler and fascism references have fired up some white people, they have alienated other white people. I think a sensible backlash is beginning.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:11 pm ¶

2. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:

   This is fucking scary.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:15 pm ¶

3. Sara no h. wrote:

   Without having watched the movie (I know, bad commenter, but I’m at work and don’t get streaming video), I would still say that it’s obvious that there are racial underpinnings to resistance and resentment over universal healthcare. It’s the same thing with welfare. Anytime you ask the well-to-do (who are usually white) to take care of the less-than-fortunate (who are usually people of colour), you run into the same issues, i.e. “Those People” are mooching off the system, why should My Hard Earned Money support “Those People,” etc. It’s unavoidable.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:28 pm ¶

4. Chris wrote:

   The fourth point is definitely the tone I hear from people who complain about social services in general.

   The same people who are opposed to government spending for disadvantaged people are, in my opinion, the first to decry Affirmative Action as reverse racism, and the first to question hiring processes or a POC’s qualifications if a white male didn’t land a particular job (see: Sotomayor hearings).

   These are scary times, indeed, but I believe most of this racist rhetoric is an expansion of the “Southern Strategy” that’s been exploited by Republicans for decades. It didn’t work during this past election, but it sure as hell seems to be working now.

   It’s in the GOP’s best interest to defeat Obama on the healthcare front. Republicans can’t really flout their foreign policy credentials anymore after 8 years of the Bush Agenda. Nor can they talk up their party’s fiscal “responsibility” after the recent financial meltdown and the subsequent gains (however little they may be) towards recovery, which most economists attribute to Obama’s stimulus package.

   Health care reform is the biggest target for Obama right now. It’s the most pressing domestic policy issue on the table at the moment. The GOP seems hell-bent on doing anything to knock the Dems off track in order for them to regain power in 2010 and 2012, and these race-baiting, fear-mongering tactics are the easiest way to instill enough doubt in Obama’s motives to completely de-rail the single-most important initiative he’s taken on so far.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:30 pm ¶

5. nathan wrote:

   There’s definitely a link between race and what we are seeing in some of these protests, tv and radio commentaries. I would also argue that there is a class-based element as well. The specter of poor people getting any kind of help, especially poor people of color, seems to be driving a good deal of this nastiness. It is a classic tactic occurring where those on the bottom are pitted against each other, while the wealthy at the top continue to maintain and often gain. The Glenn Becks and Limbaughs of the world are very effective at tapping into latent racism and prejudices of lower middle class and poor whites. And then you add in groups like The Coalition to Protect Patient’s Rights, and Conservatives for Patient’s Rights, which lend a “professional,” even scholarly appearance to the current white-dominated backlash against health are reform. There are huge corporate interests behind both of these groups, and they know that the easiest group to get riled up are white Americans who are mostly afraid of loosing their coverage, and the little bit of extra spending money they might currently have.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:43 pm ¶

6. steph wrote:

   folks are showing up at the protest with guns.
   can you imagine how quick they’d be in jail if they had been at a protest of bush with guns?

   wtf is wrong with people? (i don’t just mean the gun folks, but the angry ignorant/trusting-of-the-wrong-folks people at the protests)

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:43 pm ¶

7. Elton wrote:

   taking resources from supposedly hard-working white people and giving them to supposedly lazy black folks

   Whites aren’t the only ones with misplaced pseudo-jealousy. Based on my observation, certain working class Asian American immigrants, who would normally push their children into the medical field, now resent the role of the doctor and the health care system as a whole in giving free or low cost medical care to certain black and white poor people (especially those on welfare, and especially blacks) who they believe don’t deserve it.

   Poor people should not resent other poor people. Working class poor immigrants should not feel “above” their poor neighbors on welfare. Sure, it’s a point of pride to choose the route of hard work over welfare (not that the two are mutually exclusive), but jealousy and resentment are not good attitudes to have towards others, especially if you disapprove of their life choices. Just let them be.

   Besides, why all the violence, hate, and anger between poor and oppressed people? (Reverse case in point: Poor blacks and whites who rob Asian American immigrant businesses out of a sense that Asians are exploiting them.) Obviously, the rich and powerful don’t live in the ghetto. Why attack someone who is more or less in the same boat as you? I think we should first do what we can to improve our own lives before attacking others, and then focus our criticisms on those in power who are actually behind our collective exploitation.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:49 pm ¶

8. gail wrote:

   Good for CNN for running a segment that talks about the REAL story behind these ugly “anti-healthcare-reform” protests. Wise’s analysis is dead on. I sincerely hope this backfires on the conservatives the same way the Obama=terrorist strategy did in the election. I am praying that those who are opposing reform and the public option in particular from a cooler perspective will really see the ugliness of the racist conservatives who are staging these protests. I’m praying that those more closeted, more implicitly racist conservatives will decide they can’t stay in the same group as those ranting explicit racists. Or at least, will begin to wonder about what it might mean that they share the same political position as people screaming “Heil Hitler” and so on.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 1:59 pm ¶

9. cb3n wrote:

   I’ve just gotta say I’m stunned that CNN and Don Lemon had Tim Wise on at all. This is literally the only intelligent commentary I’ve heard from mainstream media about the undeniable resurgence of the radical racist right since the election. They definitely deserve some applause for the move.

   I think every single one of Wise’s points is dead on. A good deal of the opposition to Obama over the past 8 months has been rooted in race. Anyone else remember the “Tea Parties” organized by neo nazi’s and then attended by a general public blissfully unaware of whose slogans they were chanting? The same thing is happening now, and as a nation we are again failing to react to it, even as it’s becoming even more explicit.

   Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 2:06 pm ¶

10. Kandeezie wrote:

    Maintaining power in society: get all the poor people to fight amongst themselves – by giving one group a false sense of privilege over the other – while the rich run off with their money.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 2:07 pm ¶

11. B wrote:

    I was young during Clinton’s first term, when Hillary had her health care reform project. So maybe someone else can fill me in – back then, was her health care vision much different from Obama’s, and were reactions to her similar and/or different? I’d be interested in analyzing how people reacted depending on who was peddling the reform.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 2:14 pm ¶

12. ashlynn wrote:

    “The Glenn Becks and Limbaughs of the world are very effective at tapping into latent racism and prejudices of lower middle class and poor whites. ”

    Absolutely.

    A lot of these people who are screaming socialism and reverse racism seem to be very comfortable with letting other people take the stage and do the thinking for them. However, if they were ACTUALLY thinking- a novel idea, I know!- they would realize that they’re feeding into a trap designed solely for the thinker’s personal gain and not their own. In the end, tearing down this healthcare plan will benefit no one. I almost can’t wait for the naysayers to wake up and realize that “Oh shit, we screwed ourselves over too, didn’t we?” while the idiots over at Fox News walk away unscathed, filling their pockets while looking for the next major payday from taking another government policy debate and filling with racism and hatred so that the equally idiot masses can do their dirty work for them. Ugh.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶

13. Danny wrote:

    I think it is very ridiculous for some of these protestors to shout they want their America back, what things used to be. This country is probably one of the very few places where almost “revolutionary” social change has happen in nearly every decade since the beggining. Which America do they want? I also agree with Tim Wise statement saying how it’s too obvious those people have racial overtones in their comments.

    From what I know, if these people truly want to abide by the Standards of the Constitution word for word, it’s going to require so much personal responsibility and in many cases, it’s like a every (wo)man for him/herself type of society. I remember watching and reading several people talking about this and how a lot of people wouldn’t be able to handle or tolerate such conditions for many obvious reasons.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 3:40 pm ¶

14. Amused0472 wrote:

    It bothers me that these people can’t or won’t form a coherent argument as to why they are so “angry.” Has anyone seen the Barney Frank video in which he asked a speaker what planet she was on when she asked why he was for these Hitler-type policies? Hilarious. Sometimes nonsense needs to be identified as nonsense.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 3:40 pm ¶

15. Phil Deeze wrote:

    It’s amazing to me how some of the white folks we see at these town halls are acting a DAMN fool. Yelling, screaming, turning purple, etc. But they want to be considered intelligent and able to express themselves.

    Ripping up a Rosa Parks poster? Are you effin’ kidding me? Dumb question: was the white guy that initiated the disturbance removed from the event for the assault he perpetrated?

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 4:04 pm ¶

16. renee wrote:

    Wait a minute I am black and a women and I dont like this healthcare plan.

    Is there some resentment based on race or class or politics – of course. But to say thats all it is, is to deny the since of dread many of us have with an out of control government (fiscally and freedom wise).

    Republicans and Conservatives (not the same group of people), have been weary ever since the first term of president bush concerning our encroaching governement and out of control budgets.

    The current “rage” has been building for years, those of us are on the right, but its not the first time we have gone crazy – even against our own leaders.

    Look up the Port deals, immigration, the social security debate etc. When we get pissed off enough we fight back.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 4:05 pm ¶

17. Amused0472 wrote:

    @ Renee–I don’t think anyone said that’s all it is. With that said, people’s voices who have real concerns, pro or con, need to be heard and that’s not what’s going on with these type of outbursts. It is effectively derailing the whole issue and that’s not good for anyone.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 5:04 pm ¶

18. Niki wrote:

    Co-sign with @Amusedo472. There’s no actual “debate” going on. No discussion about the pros & cons of the plan or looking a several perspective. Nothing that would require grown up thought processes. All that’s going on now is sloganeering and people trying to shut down actual discourse. Folks have to be willfully ignorant if they don’t get the racial overtones of what some of the opposition is doing.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 5:20 pm ¶

19. Phil Deeze wrote:

    @ renee,
    If a majority-black crowd of angry protestors acted the way some of these town halls of majority-white folks have acted? There’d be tear-gas, police dogs and nightsticks. The police wouldn’t be Officer Friendly, either. Please believe it.
    If that idiot officer in Cambridge thought that a 5′5″ slightly-built senior citizen with a limp was capable of “tumultuous behavior”, I can only imagine what a cop would do to a black woman with a Rosa Parks poster. LOL.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 5:25 pm ¶

20. nathan wrote:

    I have to agree with Renee about the current health care plan – it’s in shambles. Mainly due to caving into to the insurance and big pharma lobbies, but also, sadly, I think these town hall protests are having some effect too.

    As others have said on here, there is no debate going on. Critical analysis of who the actual bill would help or not help has been complete lost in efforts to either defend President Obama or condemn him. It’s a perfect set up for power conservatives and corporate America.

    If this bill passes, the insurance and pharma companies are going to get richer, and all of us will be mandated to purchase a private insurance plan, whether or not that plan is affordable or actually provides any meaningful coverage.

    This will be especially true if the public option disappears. The whole co-op scheme is a crock made up by moderates who have been bought out by the corporate interests.

    None of this is to say that we should ignore the racialized commentary that is occurring, nor that it isn’t important to be very clear about the hate speech and actions being done in the name of “free speech.”

    In my opinion, it’s essential to maintain vigilance (to quote an infamous former President) on both a truly just health care plan, and on the issues being discussed here.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 6:10 pm ¶

21. Princezz wrote:

    This is truly sad, yet not at all surprising to me. So, some are spreading a lie that health care reform is a means of our President giving reparations to Blacks? If that were the case, just cut me a check, please.

    For those that disagree with the plan, that is their choice and right, but why all the violence and racial mess? And the sad part is, more likely than not many of the angry and hateful folk are the very ones most often in and out of doctor’s offices, medical centers and hospitals. In essence, the mind and body definitely work together. And if persons are showing up at rallies with guns, they are basically saying they are willing to kill or injure someone over heath care reform. What sense does that make?

    Whether persons agree, disagree or agree to disagree with health care reform, it would be better to logically state the facts and points of potential issues with the proposed plan rather than spewing myths, lies and hate.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 6:10 pm ¶

22. Caroline wrote:

    White woman here (does it matter?) It REALLy pisses me off that at/near a townhall meeting where Obama was going to speak in AZ, an officer was actually quoted as saying he/the police were there partly to PROTECT the people who were there with their guns on display (”open carry” law in AZ). I couldn’t even believe this was permitted, and can’t imagine that it would have been under Bush. As one poster suggested, people are either there with guns to indicate that they are willing to kill over these issues and/or (in my opinion) to blatantly let Obama, our first black president, know that he better watch out. This is nothing short of overt racism, IMO. America, your racist, violent tendencies are showing, and it’s UGLY.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 7:50 pm ¶

23. chris chambers wrote:

    They repeat again and again “my America.” They have no clue what even their own health care entails, no matter Obama’s. They are being duped.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 8:17 pm ¶

24. Phil Deeze wrote:

    The sickest part of this argument is the right-wing idiot calling the new healthcare plan as some sort of “reparations” to blacks. But that’s what the right-wing does: play the race card and then dare a person of color to call them on it. The right-wing’s retort? We’re racist for pointing out the right-wing’s racism.

    And around the mulberry bush we go.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 8:48 pm ¶

25. little mixed girl wrote:

    I don’t know too much about this health care plan, but I can’t see why so many people are so outraged.
    I guess if they don’t like it they should take their kids out of public school, stop using roads, police/fire services, etc??

    I can’t access the CNN clip from work, but this is the first time I’ve seen a link between race and the health care plan.

    Again, I don’t know all the details of it, but if it’s similar to what’s in Japan, a person would have national health insurance and the option for private health insurance also.

    What’s so bad about that?
    Currently MediCaid and MediCare are messed up.
    If you need medicaid, you must be under 18 (?) and meet a whole slew of requirements. Dental isn’t even covered.
    If you are a few dollars over their set limit, then you’re denied. wtf is that?

    I take this issue a bit personally because I had no access to insurance or doctors for most of my life (middle school – university).
    No one in my family is looking to leech off of the system, we are people just looking for access to jobs (which are repeatedly denied to my mom) which can help us pay for our own stuff.

    The only thing that comes to my mind when I hear people complain about the possibility of aid being provided to those less fortunate is SELFISH.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 10:56 pm ¶

26. ashlynn wrote:

    Incidentally, I’ve been getting emails on the ongoing healthcare issue all day, and at this point, I think we all need a good headdesk to shake off a lot of the fail coming out of such a hot topic.

    Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 11:28 pm ¶

27. x0x wrote:

    I was listening to a segment about this topic the other day on NPR, with Kai Wright of the Root. It was really encouraging to hear that some people were actually coming together on these issues.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 12:43 am ¶

28. Jen wrote:

    The rest of the developed world is watching this with its collective jaw hanging open. Can anyone tell me why so many people are so insanely opposed to universal healthcare? I know a lot of horror stories about what it’s “really” like in Canada/Australia/Great Britain get tossed around by the Right’s propagandists, but even those aside, there seems to be this bizarre objection to treating sick people on the public dime. Can anyone shed any light on this for me? (I’m Australian, by the way). It just seems completely mad.

    As for the Obama = Hitler stuff. What. The Hell.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 1:18 am ¶

29. jvansteppes wrote:

    Why is it that some protesters are allowed to carry guns near the President while others were tazered and gassed for chanting outside the RNC convention or interrupting a Bush speech?

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 1:30 am ¶

30. Sean wrote:

    @ Little Mixed Girl

    I’ve often wondered if the far-right talking-heads who denounce President Obama as a socialist, forbid their kids from using public libraries, put them in private schools only, and avoid calling 911 in emergencies? Those things are kinda… ewwww… socialist in nature, you know!

    BTW, if I learned nothing from my critical thinking class, it’s that when you make a comparison to Hitler, it’s a guaranteed fallacy.

    LOL at Phil Deeze #19

    I said the same thing to my local comic book vendor today! He said “Yeah… if we even so much as had a Super-Soaker anywhere near Bush, we’d be considered ”terrorists’ and shipped to Guantanamo! You like water, eh? Well you will LOVE this waterboarding thing we do here.”

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 2:23 am ¶

31. Michelle wrote:

    I have been talking about this very issue since Glenn Beck and Michele Malkin started calling Obama a dangerous, racist crook.

    IMHO, this goes back to civil rights legislation and The Great Society. It is way to long to detail here, but basically, LBJ passed civil rights legislation and also felt that the real way to address inequality in America was to address poverty. The Great Society (welfare, public housing, medicaid, medicare, PBS, etc) was aimed at helping very specific sectors of the American public. Black people were targeted in the Great Society legislation, but so were the elderly and the very young. However, most Americans came to associate civil rights with The Great Society, and of course, Black people.

    As far as the first time health care reform was attempted by the Clintons, I believe that the same issues were at play, at least in the background. The Republicans are using the same talking points, and remember how “Black” people thought Bill Clinton was. Only, Republicans/Conservatives/Right Wingers couldn’t come out and call him racist against White people. They can call President Obama racist and get get away with it.

    Lastly, I hear people talking about how this is going to be so expensive. But I just feel like the time to raise a fuss was before we spent TRILLIONS of dollars on an, at best, questionable war. Where were people then, demanding that we at least have an exit strategy? Where were the fiscal conservatives during the eight years of Bush and his out of control spending. You choose NOW to push back? You choose NOW, eight months into a new administration, to start protesting government spending? You choose NOW to grow a pair and start caring about how your grandchildren are going to pay for the debt that we incurred over the past eight years? Sorry, it rings a little hollow.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 2:25 am ¶

32. Tim Wise wrote:

    Hi everyone, and thanks for the discussion thus far. Also, thanks for the additional food for thought and confirming that I’m not crazy for seeing what I think I’m seeing. Also know, it must be getting under their skin (the white right) because in the last 48 hours I was attacked by both Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly, on-air, because of what I said in that CNN clip…so I’m assuming they are worried about the possibility of being perceived as stoking racism. In which case, I guess we have to turn up the heat!

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 7:29 am ¶

33. Chris wrote:

    @Michelle: It all goes back to little mixed girl’s point: selfishness.

    People were for the war because they were scared shitless by the empty rhetoric of WMD’s and mushroom clouds. Taking out Saddam would guarantee the U.S.’s safety, according to the Bush administration.

    Taxpayer money going towards protecting myself and my family = money well spent.

    911: if I’m getting robbed or my house is getting broken into, then I can just dial this number and the cops will be out to help me in a jiffy.

    Taxpayer money going towards protecting myself and my family = money well spent.

    Roads: I have a car, and I believe it is my right to be able to go wherever I please with it. Without a decent highway and road system, I won’t be able to do that.

    Taxpayer money going towards making my life easier = money well spent.

    Healthcare and, to a certain extent, schools: My money is now going towards educating someone else’s kids or ensuring proper healthcare is delivered to someone else who is not part of my family. I have an awesome healthcare plan because I work hard and have an awesome job. Why should I pay for YOU to get covered because you can’t afford a good healthcare plan? Why should I pay more for YOUR CHILDREN’S education when mine are in private school/already graduated/aren’t born yet?

    Taxpayer money going towards protecting, educating, and making you and your family’s lives easier = taxpayer moeny not well spent.

    That is the line of thinking opponents to government-subsidized healthcare (and to a large extent, public education) possess.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 7:54 am ¶

34. Free wrote:

    @Elton – Besides, why all the violence, hate, and anger between poor and oppressed people?

    This is an old story going back to the Virginia colony in the 17th century. Rich white men, masters of all, devised a race based system to create class division for the benefit of the ruling elite. It is still practiced today a la Beck, Buchanan, Limbaugh et al.

    “It took decades to alternately reward and punish Europeans into becoming white—into acting reliably in the interests of the European ruling elite, rather than out of solidarity with their class sisters and brothers from Africa.”

    A Nation Built on the Hierarchy of Race
    A Practical Guide to Beating White Supremacy
    Author: Fernando E. Gapasin
    http://www.monthlyreview.org/081027gapasin.php

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 7:59 am ¶

35. Free wrote:

    Clarification: Fernando E. Gaspin is the author of the review of The Cost of Privilege: Taking On the System of White Supremacy and Racism by Chip Smith

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 8:05 am ¶

36. pm wrote:

    What I find difficult to understand, as an outsider, is why, if US culture is so antithetical to anything that smacks of ’socialism’, medicare is such an uncontroversial policy.

    Unless I’ve misunderstood something about how the system works, why not just progressively lower the age limit for medicare, which nobody seems to be angry about, till it includes everyone?

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 1:39 pm ¶

37. Pickly wrote:

    What I find difficult to understand, as an outsider, is why, if US culture is so antithetical to anything that smacks of ’socialism’, medicare is such an uncontroversial policy.

    Medicare was introduced at a time when the population was more supportive of these sorts of large programs, I think, so has an advantage of being a program people are used to having. (Plus it covers all types of old people, as opposed to newer programs where this sort of racial stuff, or other divisive stuff, comes into play.)

    (Am not sure why medicare expansions isn’t being considered, it might have something to do with how the program is funded, or that people have gotten used to it being for older people.)

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 2:33 pm ¶

38. cb3n wrote:

    @pm

    Actually, the same political elements that are stirring up anger about healthcare reform have always been somewhat upset about the Social Security Act that created both medicare and medicaid in the 60s.

    I think over the years opposition to medicare has become more underground but there is definitely still some controversy.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 2:49 pm ¶

39. octogalore wrote:

    I agree that there’s a component of the critique that has its roots in racism, selfishness, or some combination of the two.

    I don’t feel that all critique must necessarily stem from these sources, though.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 2:59 pm ¶

40. Chris wrote:

    @pm: Ronald Reagan (before he was a policitian) recorded an entire LP about the evils of Medicare and the path to socialism during the time it was being debated on.

    Remember that quote Sarah Palin used in the VP debate? The one that goes “freedom is always just one generation away from extinction. We don’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream; we have to fight for it and protect it, and then hand it to them so that they shall do the same, or we’re going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children about a time in America, back in the day, when men and women were free?”

    It’s from that very same LP.

    Here’s more info on it: http://wonkette.com/403249/palin-quoted-reagan-calling-medicare-communism/

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 3:18 pm ¶

41. BSK wrote:

    To be fair, not ALL criticisms of the current health reform legislation are racially tinged. There are legitimated counter-arguments both theoretically and practically about the plan being pushed. However, there certainly are certain memes and certain individuals for which race is a factor, where it really shouldn’t. We must be careful to allow for legitimate criticism of this president, just as we would hope for of any president.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 4:08 pm ¶

42. deb wrote:

    This is an old story going back to the Virginia colony in the 17th century. Rich white men, masters of all, devised a race based system to create class division for the benefit of the ruling elite.

    How come angry folks, like the ones showing up at the townhall meetings, or the ones who want “their” country back, don’t digest this?

    How come the founders didn’t have the foresight to see how much f*ckery this division would cause down the road? Or, maybe they did and didn’t care.

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 9:59 pm ¶

43. deb wrote:

    Oh! Thanks for that link, Free. :thumbsup:

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 10:01 pm ¶

44. uspatriette wrote:

    What about the people protesting this plan because of their views on government?

    I understand that there are crazy people out there with racist, outlandish views. What I don’t understand is why that suddenly appears to be the “majority” of the people who are protesting the health care plan. From my view of things, they are picking out the exceptions and blowing it out of proportion.

    Also, why wasn’t it called racism when the leftists were comparing Bush with Hitler? Is it racist because of the comparison, or just because the color of our President’s skin happens to be different?

    Posted 20 Aug 2009 at 11:34 pm ¶

45. honeybrown1976 wrote:

    Uspatriette,

    It looks as though you watched O’Reilly because you copied word for word his ridiculous retort about comparing Bush with Hitler and how it should be considered racism (which is odd considering it was primarily whites calling another white man Hitler). Can you please bring to the table your own thoughts and words?

    Also, where were these passionate people during the past 8 years? Give me a break about their so-called passion over governmental policies.

    Posted 21 Aug 2009 at 4:36 am ¶

46. TN wrote:

    what Kandeezie said at comment #10
    get all the poor people to fight amongst themselves – by giving one group a false sense of privilege over the other – while the rich run off with their money BINGO!

    Posted 21 Aug 2009 at 5:36 am ¶

47. Free wrote:

    @deb – Thanks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud5h0Q8X8bY

    Freedoms Phoenix (yeah they have a website), posted that video of Chris carrying an AR15 at the Phoenix Health Care Rally. Rick Sanchez at CNN (go Rick!), reported that this was a publicity stunt (see also HuffPo). Supposedly, Chris is the guy that MSNBC edited out of their video footage (at this point I don’t know if that’s true).

    These people want revolution. As the saying goes, you should always be careful of what you wish for.

    From the video description. Note the following: Usurper, Astroturf, Productive Class, Welfare Class.

    “The Usurper Obama comes to Phoenix Arizona on 08/16/09. Chris is inspired to come to the demonstration and exercise His rights of Free Speech, which includes his RIGHT to carry a loaded AR 15 as well as his loaded Glock 17 a 9 millimeter handgun around while he is peacefully rallying for the rights of the individual. He encounters crowds of acorn sponsored astroturf who are only interested in utilizing the force of government to steal from one group (the Productive class) to give to the another group (the welfare class).”

    Posted 21 Aug 2009 at 9:07 am ¶

48. Chris wrote:

    @uspatriette: “What about the people protesting this plan because of their views on government? ”

    They’re being drowned out by the much louder, much angrier minority of people protesting using scare tactics, race baiting, and FUD.

    If there were an honest discussion and peaceful, sensible protesting, then people wouldn’t be complaining so much about these town hall outbursts. However, that’s not the case, and these protestors are detracting from a real discussion on a very important issue.

    My guess is that, if there were an honest and open discussion based on the facts, more people would be for this plan than against it. If Obama manages to pass a meaningful overhaul of the healthcare system, his presidential seat is pretty much guaranteed in 2012, which is exactly the opposite of what conservative talking heads like O’Reilly, Beck, and the like want.

    They’ll do anything to derail him, and the easiest way to do so is to use these awful race-baiting tactics to scare the one demographic that Obama already lost to during the presidental elections (ie. whites) shitless – to the point where they’ll fear for their lives and lash out as loudly and violently as possible.

    Posted 21 Aug 2009 at 9:26 am ¶

49. RCHOUDH wrote:

    I find it interesting how the right wingers are stoking the inherent fears and frustrations of “average Americans” in order to discredit the democrats and Obama. They know that ordinary Americans are getting fed up with way the government is handling the economic crisis by bailing banks and auto manufacturers and creating a massive budget deficit in the process. They know that average white Americans are worried about losing their jobs and health benefits and so they raise the spectre of the “undeserving masses (poor minorities and illegal immigrants)” getting a free lunch which everyone else has to provide through the raising of taxes (I can’t believe the Treasury secretary a few weeks ago actually floated that idea; it’s like he’s also working to discredit his boss just like Hillary Clinton and VP Biden!) I think the outrage over health care reform is worse than during Clinton’s time because the economic crisis is worse and the government’s budget deficit is in much worse shape.

    Posted 21 Aug 2009 at 10:36 am ¶

50. DivergentDana wrote:

    “What I find difficult to understand, as an outsider, is why, if US culture is so antithetical to anything that smacks of ’socialism’, medicare is such an uncontroversial policy.”

    That’s the thing. It was a controversial policy, and I think people should be reminded of this, and often. If the health care systems in these other industrialized nations are so nightmarish due to gov. interference, why doesn’t the public in these various places just scrap them? And how do these countries’ basic measures of health compare to ours (life expectancy, infant mortality rate, incapacitating disability)? It’s not only about what’s being said, it’s about what’s not being said and what facts & figures are seemingly integral to a serious conversation about health care, but somehow conspicuously absent.

    Posted 22 Aug 2009 at 12:52 am ¶

51. uspatriette wrote:

    @ honeybrown1976

    Actually I don’t watch O’Reilly…I’m just saying that it doesn’t make much sense to me to say it’s racist just because our President is a different color. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with ideology. That’s why people make the comparison, because Obama reflects some of the same ideology and tactics used by radicals and fascists.

    And while I can’t speak for other people, I have been upset about the direction of the US Government since I’ve been old enough to vote. This has nothing to do with parties, and everything to do with government “servants” who are out of control. All they care about is getting reelected and keeping whatever special interest group lines their pockets, not the actual future of this country, or sticking to the Constitution.

    I think it’s a shame that this larger, more important issue is overshadowed and ignored because of a few extreme individuals. And frankly, I don’t think it’s a coincidence. It’s much easier to paint all conservatives or critiques of Obama’s health care plan as “crazy, lunatic, violent racists” than it is to actually discuss the issue.

    Posted 22 Aug 2009 at 1:14 am ¶

52. uspatriette wrote:

    @ Chris

    Maybe I don’t watch the “appropriate” news to see this viewpoint, but I just don’t understand where you’re getting the idea that anyone is upset about this because of race. But I don’t really watch much news these days.

    I also have to respectfully disagree that the majority of people would approve this health care bill. Speaking for myself, and the other people I know who are against this plan, are tired of the growth of the government. There has been exponential growth in spending the past few decades honestly, and government powers are extending far past where they belong.

    Admittedly my knowledge of the health care industry is far too weak to formulate my own solution, but I certainly don’t think it involves the government stepping in.

    I just wish it was THIS issue we were talking about as a nation, and not the race issue. It makes me wonder at times if the media fuels the race issue far more than it actually exists in the minds of the people. I mean, the discussion here seems to be fairly civil and I don’t see anyone throwing the race card out against other people.

    Posted 22 Aug 2009 at 1:25 am ¶

53. Slush wrote:

    @uspatriette –
    Yes, the discussion on Racialicious is civil because the site has some asskicking moderators who work hard to keep things that way, unlike many blogs, not to mention townhall meetings.

    However, it seems to me that in fact very few people are talking about race in the healthcare debate, and even fewer talking about it critically, with an awareness of how race affects people structurally and subliminally, as well as outright. Race conversations are hardly detracting from the volume of screams about socialism – which is, agreed, not a real debate or analysis at all – that have at least vaguely more to do with government spending.

    Meanwhile, millions of Americans have negligible healthcare coverage, and a hugely disproportionate number of those are people of color. You don’t think that’s a significant problem?

    Posted 24 Aug 2009 at 6:03 pm ¶

54. idioteraser wrote:

    “There has been exponential growth in spending the past few decades honestly, and government powers are extending far past where they belong. ”

    Why is healthcare for all not an issue of the public good where the gov’t would be considered the most reliable provider of said public good?

    Medicare is now considered something the Republicans don’t want to admit in public they want to get rid of. Same with Social Security.

    As for growth in gov’t guess what there has to be a ruling of things in order to make society function and an appartus to carry out the enforcement of order. Gov’t is the most effective one especially when religion doesn’t dominate the gov’t.

    Republicans are the party that always spends out the wazhoo, increasing the tax burden on the lower and middle class while giving enormous kickbacks to the rich. Republicans are the party who wants to mandate what sect of Christanity gets preferential treatment and decides to interfere in the personal lives of people.

    Death panels the insurance industry has had them for decades. They deny people with preexisting conditions you know the people who would need insurance more then any other person oh and btw pregnancy is a preexisting condition. Other countries the only way someone loses their private insurance is if they miss several payments, nor do any claims get denied. US it can take private insurance months to pay for a claim after the person has to pay it twice. In the other countries the claims are paid in less then a week because there are goverment saying the insurance companies have to do it or risk massive fines and even seizure of the company if the company doesn’t do it.

    Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 2:17 pm ¶

55. idioteraser wrote:

    “It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with ideology. That’s why people make the comparison, because Obama reflects some of the same ideology and tactics used by radicals and fascists.”

    Sorry no he doesn’t, you have no real idea of what history actually says the fascists did and what tactics they used. Hint the town hall protesters with the Obama as Hitler signs are the fascist brownshirts. Bush Jr did things far more in line with fascists such as Hitler. Fascism is a right wing idelogy and is alinged with corporate interests. Communism is at best a far left ideology but is actually more in practical operation in tune with American Conservatism ideals.

    Republicans have always been far more ideological inline with Communists. Both hate pornography, both groups deny evolutionary biology, they also hate gays and Hollywood. Both also are fascinated with calling themselves Redstaters.

    Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 2:21 pm ¶

56. Michele wrote:

    ~ Tim Wise, in his analysis of President Obama’s Healthcare Plan agenda was so adept at “naming” the real issue that some, who are in opposition of the Plan : Racism.

    It’s frightening to me, that in 2009, the twenty first century, and we, as a democratic nation are still overwhelmed with issues of racism, classism, and sexism! I didn’t hear the nation’s ( the have nots or the haves) outrage when former President Bush “bamboozled ” the nation with his continuous lies of mass destruction in Iraq; sending countless men and women to their needless deaths in an unnecessary war. I didn’t hear the outcry of a so-called compassionate nation, when countless families lost their homes; their life savings in the travesty of Hurricane Katrina. Mind you, the media deemed those persons “refugees”??? Aren’t refugees persons escaping oppression from foreign lands and coming to the US for refuge? In each of the abovementioned situations, people of colour were involved. The underpinnings of racist thought? I think so, without a doubt!

    How dare some compare President Obama to Hitler! In one little finger, Obama has more compassion, intelligence, and integrity than the nihilist Hitler would ever have in his grave! Historically, how can we compare an individual imbued with such intense hatred ( Hitler) to a man who strives so ardently to bring together humankind ?

    Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 7:40 pm ¶

57. bdsista wrote:

    I am really glad Tim Wise made this so clear, not just about healthcare, but the growing racial backlash that has occurred since Obama’s election. Is it me or does there seem to be a striking increase of overtly racist acts and hate crimes? I find whites seem to feel perfectly fine to say the most henious things to people of color and then get surprised when they are met with vehemence (and sometimes profanity). I think the current climate is due to the idea that Obama’s election has become a lightning rod striking at the heart of white supremacy. That is why Skip Gates is arrested in his own home after producing ID and using his right to free speech to express his disgust and contempt at such indignities which is why he got arrested. For not knowing his place. I am astounded to learn that the secret service regardless of state laws allowed people near the President with guns. This would NEVER happen with Reagan, Bush I or II or even Clinton. Besides, isn’t carrying a gun near the President a threat to National Security? Don’t Federal Laws supercede State laws? Damn the State laws, if someone shows up armed at a protest where our HEAD of STATE is, he should either be disarmed or removed. The very fact that this is being allowed speaks volumes to me. I can’t even get into the Hitler stupidness, will have to post another comment.

    Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 12:12 am ¶