The Healthcare Reform Debate in Atlanta, With a Racial Update
by Guest Contributor (and regular commenter) Atlasien
UPDATE: There is a guy with a gun outside of Obama’s town hall. This shit is getting ridiculous. Gawker has details:
MSNBC just aired video of a man with a pistol strapped to his leg waiting for Barack Obama to arrive at a townhall in New Hampshire.
The man is carrying a sign that says, “It Is Time to Water the Tree of Liberty.” That’s a reference to a Thomas Jefferson quote: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” It was a favorite slogan of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, who was wearing a T-shirt when he was arrested with a picture of Lincoln on the front and a tree dripping with blood on the back.
Now, this guy is carrying a legal weapon, says NBC News’ Ron Allen. The local chief of police has no objections. Open carriage of licensed handguns is legal in New Hampshire, and the man is standing on the private property of a nearby church (!) that has no problem with an armed man hanging around.
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I live in Georgia’s 4th District, and I just attended Representative Hank Johnson’s healthcare town hall meeting. The event drew thousands of people. Our group got there an hour early, but even with that lead time, there was obviously no chance of getting inside.
So we stood outside with signs: large, simple, direct, polite signs. We got some good attention and maybe some media coverage.
Judging from the signs in the incredibly long line, supporters of healthcare reform outnumbered opponents by a lot, maybe 4 to 1. The 4th District is majority African-American and overwhelmingly Democratic. It was almost a sure bet that many healthcare opponents drove into the district from much further away. I saw a lot of exurb county license plates in the parking lot.
There were a few weird screamers. Someone yelled “YOU’RE NAZIS” at us. Another man yelled “you want to send all our money to Kenya!” However, there were so many supporters that the really rude people never achieved critical mass, and the atmosphere outside remained calm.
There was heavy security, and apparently the rules for the town hall were very strict and carefully explained at the beginning. People who yelled or were disruptive would be escorted out. I can’t wait to read a summary to see how the town hall worked out.
It was certainly nothing like the mass chaos at the town hall in St. Louis that made national news. In this event, a black conservative named Kenneth Gladney claims to have been attacked and racially insulted by (black) SEIU union activists. Depending on your point of view, Gladney could be a a brave martyr or a scam artist… or perhaps just a regular person in the wrong place at the wrong time. It’s a difficult situation to get a hold on.
Going back to local Atlanta news, there’s been a lot of local coverage on how Rep. David Scott, of the neighboring 13th District, supposedly “lost his temper” or “went berserk” at a non-healthcare town hall when he was asked a healthcare reform question. I saw the video clip in question, and I don’t believe he really loses his temper. And I’m not saying this because I like David Scott, because I can’t stand him. I think his political career is full of soft corruption, and he’s nowhere near the caliber of, say, John Lewis. But in this case Scott is right. The media coverage surrounding the video clip was ridiculous and racist. Whatever the man’s faults, he’s a slick politician… he wouldn’t freak out in front of a camera. If he was white, the headlines would have said “angry words” at the most, not “loses his temper”.
Here’s what he has to say in his defense:
“The first question that comes out of his mouth, ‘Why did you vote for this?’” Scott said. “Wait a minute — I didn’t vote for anything. We haven’t had it to vote on.”
What you didn’t see in our original report was the three minutes Scott spent answering the doctor’s question before he raised his voice.
Watson asked Scott, “In hindsight, seeing those clips, did you lose your temper?”
“No, I did not lose my temper. I was very firm and I talked very firm — and if you looked at that, my words were there. I didn’t bite my tongue about it. I was very, very disturbed with him,” Scott said.
But Scott is even more disturbed about mail he has received in the days since the story aired.
Scott held up a sheet of paper to Watson that had a picture of President Obama on it, his face made to look like the joker in Batman, a swastika on his forehead. Then he read what it said.
“They address it to n—– David Scott, ‘You were, you are, and you shall forever be, a n—–’,” Scott said, reading from the letter. “I got this in the mail today. Somewhere underneath this, bubbling up, is the ugly viscissitudes [sic, because 11alive.com hasn't discovered spellchecking] of racism. We should be proud we have an African American president and celebrating him willing to take on the difficult issue of healthcare, an issue that reflects 19 percent of our economy. Here we are in Congress trying to grapple with an almost impossible task — almost two improbables together, bring the cost of healthcare down while expanding the coverage of it. That is a difficult assignment and it should not be relegated to these mobs of people who will come and hijack a meeting, and you expect me not to stand up to that and not to show that we’re not intimidated?”
Scott is hosting a health fair and healthcare forum at which he will do questions and answers on the topic of healthcare reform.
It will be held on Saturday from 10 am to 2 pm at Mundy’s Mill High School in Jonesboro.
Thank goodness my Rep, Hank Johnson, will never be accused of losing his temper, despite incontrovertible blackness. Maybe it’s all the “Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō”s he undoubtedly recites… he projects an almost supernatural (though slightly gawky) aura of calmness. If he’s ever accused of “going berserk”, I’ll know the time of white exurban riots will be upon us.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Sobia wrote:
Is it me, or does opposition to the Obama administration policies seem more violent than to other admins, including Bush’s?
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 10:43 am ¶
Jess wrote:
I would urge everyone who cares about this to note that the Teabaggers and other astroturf conservative groups have been out in force to disrupt the whole town meeting process. And they are quite upfront about it too.
Dave Neiwert has a take on this. (www.dneiwert.blogspot.com) and it’s worth reading. But even if you don’t, understand that a lot of these incidents are a set-up. The whole point is to turn something that is supposed to be a chance for people to ask questions and get answers into a shouting match. And that should scare the hell out of everybody.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 10:46 am ¶
jen* wrote:
Shoot – I just saw how rowdy folks were getting in PA, with Arlen Specter – I shudder to think how POC senators and rep’s will be treated. And I’m just really surprised that there are still people who think nothing needs to be done about the current state of our healthcare – it’s obviously fubar’ed right now.
The boldness that some people are showing right now is scary, too. Throwing the n-word around in letters to representatives, nearly throwing punches at townhall meetings – I hope things do not continue to escalate.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 10:54 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
Here’s a link to a description from someone who was inside Hank Johnson’s town hall last night:
Bernita at Blog for Democracy
Here’s the 11alive.com coverage:
I think Hank Johnson and his team did a great job of realizing what they were up against, and taking quick measures to ensure that the town hall wouldn’t be disrupted or turn violent. Hopefully, this is going to mark a major turning point.
The Atlanta-area black Democratic representatives are lightning rods for the teabaggers, but they’re certainly not passive victims. There are lots of local organizations supporting them, including intown predominantly white liberal groups.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:11 am ¶
cocolamala wrote:
yes, when you can’t contribute to a debate supported by valid reasoning, definitely resort to personal insults and attacks — that way you’ll at least distract everyone from the other side’s discussion, and hopefully they’ll miss the point.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:17 am ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist wrote:
Oh, no, those poor racist white people!!!!
They need to quit whining and accept the fact that Obama won and is our POTUS.
I honestly believe that all those townhall riots are really manufactured by right wing media outlets and corporations…
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:23 am ¶
Joy wrote:
Send our money to Kenya? Um…wow.
Anyway, I’m annoyed by what commentators and some Republican reps have said (from what I’ve read on cnn.com) regarding the fact that it’s unfair/undemocratic to eject or discredit the citizens (forgetting the debate for the moment that these are “staged” protests) who are yelling, hollering, and acting a fool at these town hall meetings. No one has the right to act like a child (probably worse than a child) at a meeting for adults to discuss serious issues. I think everyone who gets out of control and acts like a brat should immediately be ejected from the meeting. This seems like such a common sense given.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:34 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
Holy crap, someone just tagged David Scott’s office with a swastika.
I encourage anyone in the area to attend David Scott’s town hall in Jonesboro (just south of Atlanta) to lend support. Link to event info here.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:43 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
Re “does opposition to the Obama administration policies seem more violent than to other admins, including Bush’s?” Of course they’re more violent. A black Kenyan Muslim is trying to destroy our country by pretending to be a centrist American-born president. Look out, America…the commie/socialist/One Worlders are taking over! Next thing you know, he’ll be taking our guns, our land, and our women while putting us all in death camps!
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:53 am ¶
nathan wrote:
Well, I definitely agree that there are some wildly stupid ideas about health care reform being spread by the right wing in an attempt to discredit Obama’s administration and wrongly question his legitimacy as our President.
But let’s face it, the health care plan in Congress currently is a failure in the making. It’s almost a complete collapse in favor of privatized insurance and other than the removal of the pre-existing conditions clause, will do little for those of us, myself included, who are uninsured or barely insured. And while I applaud the President for taking on such a tough issue in the first year of his term, I seriously question the direction he and the Democratic congress have taken. Privatizing medicine and making it just another commodity to be bought and sold on the “free market” has to be one of the worst mistakes we have made as a society in the last half century.
What’s sad is that people in Congress like Representative Johnson end up spending so much time talking about these wild conspiracy theories that come up – like the story that President Obama wants to euthanize elderly people – instead of really being able to dig in and find a solution to these kinds of issues.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 11:55 am ¶
jen* wrote:
@nathan – What you said. I’m disgusted that the proposals have devolved into looking more like what we have now than anything that would really help us.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:02 pm ¶
Amused0472 wrote:
This is a full on attack by people who don’t want to see the OBAMA administration succeed in reforming healthcare because they want to derail Obama for 2012. It’s sad because they are not hurting him, they are hurting us..
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:03 pm ¶
AJ Plaid wrote:
@DIMA–You’re right. This is about Freedom Works, one of the major organizers/sponsors of the Townhall Dissenters (and I know I’m being polite with that phrase)
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/lobbying-clients-teaparties/
For a insider’s view on how the current right-wing works, check out David Brock’s Blinded by the Right, too.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:04 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
ok – I just saw the update.
what the crack?! A man with a gun outside Obama’s town hall and folks are ok with this? I wonder how the Secret Service will treat that situation…
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:06 pm ¶
A.G. wrote:
“A black Kenyan Muslim” …………That’s nothing but pure unadulterated trolling. Now, watching this from abroad, I can say that it seems as if they are going above and beyond with opposition. Mind you, the only thing I worry about in the healthcare reform is killing off a pertinent part of the middle class; allied health professionals i.e. ultrasound, radiology, whose pay rates and jobs will be effected by caps, and treatment algorithms.
However, the people that I see on television seem very neurotic and conspiracy driven. Suddenly, a mixed race man, raised in white America who happens to identify as black, has plans to send money to Kenya, and put white people in internment camps for the revenge of “his people”
As far as the young man attacked in St. Louis, I know how that works. Some Black people are no innocent lambs when it comes to people who disagree and happen to have brown skin. In fact, both blacks and whites have been brainwashed into believing that all people of color, should think, act, and S—-the same. Whenever, there is someone outside of the circle, accusations of being a race traitor, are made and yes they will attempt to be violent. It is no different from some of those ignorant backwoods people who cut eyeholes, out of sheets and wear them.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:09 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
Remember the guy with a gun is in New Hampshire… can’t blame that one on Southerners… yikes, now I’m hoping we make it through to the other side of this reform debate without anyone dying in the streets.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:12 pm ¶
AJ Plaid wrote:
@atlasien–Oh yeah, the MSM is gonna get their southern connection with the armed man, like “New Hampshire is very much like the South, like parts of Appalachia.”
I’m just waiting for it.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:23 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
YES, intimidate other citizens by bringing weapons to the public forums. Discourage disagreement, dissent, or learning information.
My elderly grandmother feels safer asking questions about her prescription plan if a man wearing a gun nearby, is ready to start screaming and yelling.
DO NOT address the issue of healthcare.
DO employ thought stopping techniques if necessary.
WASH–RINSE–REPEAT
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 1:58 pm ¶
Eathan wrote:
It seems that there needs to be more organization by supporters of health reform. This is almost a sub-election. Everyone knows that changes are needed..but we have media obsessed opposition that is getting all the attention.
Great post to show a different side of the topic.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 3:03 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
i feel like the community organizations that pres. obama relied on to get out the vote need to be re-formed to support peaceful discourse around the town hall meetings.
every community that had an Obama campaign office was formed from a network of rational, civic minded, people in the neighborhood. can these people do some more please?!
Community Organizing — Moar Please!
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 3:13 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
@atlasien – in an even smaller town not far from my own (here in SC), there was a standoff/shootout between a family and the police – the family was from NH. There are definitely gun nuts everywhere.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 4:13 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
Update to update… local right-wing commentators think David Scott swastika’d his own office to get sympathy. He’s supposedly “playing the race card” too.
Nazis and swastikas have become disturbingly prominent in all of this.
Having been called a Nazi last night, I’ve discovered it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I don’t see it as a valid insult. It’s like yelling “shorty short short nasty dwarf bastard person” at someone who’s very tall… it just doesn’t make sense. But I think when these extremists are using swastikas to attack people, it’s not just about calling them Nazis — it’s also about invoking the history of the swastika to inspire racist fear. They want to have it both ways.
The use of the swastika in this debate is horrendously irresponsible and disrespectful to victims of Nazism.
I think the same dynamic is behind the Joker/Obama image. 50% calling your opponent something associated with evil, 50% invoking that very same evil in a subtly positive sense to try to scare your opponents. Major light bulb moment for me… The Obama Joker image is supposed to scare Obama supporters. I get it now.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 5:36 pm ¶
jvansteppes wrote:
I guess I missed that part in history class about the Nazi party extending health care to everyone before they moved on to genocide and war…
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 6:43 pm ¶
nathan wrote:
It might be helpful to remember that former President Bush and Vice President Cheney were routinely parodied as Hitlers and Nazis during anti-war protests. And Bill Clinton was linked with Nazis for his support of the NAFTA bill. The use of Nazi labels is nothing new.
But clearly the link is different now because politicians of color are being tagged, and the rhetoric is getting more racialized by the minute. It’s definitely disturbing to see, yet another reminder of the long road ahead of us when it comes to race in the U.S.
In terms of health care, I would really love to see people get organized and vocal about a national plan that doesn’t give in to the for profit madhouse we have now. Instead of trying to protect townhall meetings, how about we start pressing for real change, the kind of which people kept talking about during the last election.
My new slogan is “Single payer health care, not personal mandate profitcare!”
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 7:09 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
Yes, Bush was compared to Hitler. But as someone who’s been going to left-wing anti-war protests since 2003, these were pretty rare. I’ve seen more invocations of Hitler and Nazism in the last week than the last six years. And I didn’t see any of that weird usage — half negative, half appropriative/totemic — in Hitler or Nazi comparisons from the left.
Also, I believe single-payer is also the best and most efficient way to fix healthcare. But it’s just not going to happen in today’s climate. I’d rather fix half the problem now and the other half during another administration than demand purity and get nothing. Passing partial reform now makes passing full reforms later on more likely.
If the current reform package passes, as just one of the benefits, it’s going to represent a massive improvement for anyone with a pre-existing condition… many of these people are simply uninsurable in today’s system.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 9:55 pm ¶
Lxy wrote:
These increasingly hysterical protests over health care are interesting phenomena and reflect the reactionary nature of American political life in general.
One the one hand, you have the Obama regime and Democrats, whose health care “reform” proposal–despites it promises about a public option–largely serves the interests of insurance companies, big pharma, and the medical industry (i.e. Corporate America).
On the other hand, you have the Republicans and Conservatives who oppose this program because they believe it represents “socialized medicine” and too much government regulation–in other words, because it is not corporate enough!
This is a factional fight between different wings of the American establishment–both of which bad.
And to be sure, these protests in part draw upon a thinly disguised form of populist White nationalism. The references to Obama’s Kenyan heritage suggest as much.
But this is not surprising.
White nationalism is the mass social base of the America empire in general, though it is expressed in different forms. Some more overt (like the Republicans), and some more concealed (like the Democrats).
That this White nationalist base is increasingly agitated is not a good sign, as it will naturally lend itself towards political demagoguery, if not fascism.
Posted 12 Aug 2009 at 5:07 am ¶
veebot wrote:
The rich white racist want to stop affordable health care. They hire poor white racist to fight and disrupt. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. The ignorance and stupidty is astounding.
Posted 13 Aug 2009 at 3:24 am ¶
Free wrote:
@Lyx – That this White nationalist base is increasingly agitated is not a good sign, as it will naturally lend itself towards political demagoguery, if not fascism.
Yup. And if they do assassinate Obama perhaps they will get their much sought after race war. All bets will be off then. Perhaps they won’t be satisfied until the country melts down to 50 petty dictatorships . I don’t believe in god or allah, but in my own way I pray for Obama.
Posted 13 Aug 2009 at 4:25 am ¶
Nate wrote:
For what is worth I’m surpising people aren’t looking at the French and German (or even australian models) and just looking at the current US and UK NHS models . What I like most about the french (and german) approach is that doctors etc remain free agents, citizens have freedom of choise in terms of the doctor private ‘top’ up assurance is available (and both very competive AND with insurers making money) and the underpinning objective is solidarity. That is, the sicker a person is, the less they have to pay, and that we are all actually in this (brother’s keeper etc) together. The free market used to obtain a ’socialist’ (or just plain just and moral) outcome. IMHO the anti-reform advocates are steering clear of looking at these social market models because folk will like (and understand) what they see… Maybe the push for this has to be along more new deal approach.
Posted 13 Aug 2009 at 6:33 am ¶
Lee Davis-Thalbourne wrote:
Sobia @ 1:
It’s not your imagination. There’s a blog called Orcinus (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com), where a couple of Hate Group experts have been very thoroughly examining the current waves of violence and noting that the last time we had such a wave of violence was the last time a Democrat was in power. And it’s much worse now than it was under Clinton. And they’re pretty sure the Right-wing talking heads are happily encouraging all this violence.
There’s some serious reactionary violence to the very idea of Democrats being in power, and a black Democrat? Well, that’s just the final straw for a lot of these people.
Posted 16 Aug 2009 at 7:40 pm ¶