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1. Arroz Con Beans | Reggaeton vs Hip Hop? on 01 Jul 2009 at 1:51 pm

   [...] An interesting post from Racialicious. [...]

Comments

1. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

   I’ve always wondered how black-skinned Latinos feel about that…

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 12:04 pm ¶

2. Wendi Muse wrote:

   i have not read this book, so i don’t know how much they get into this, but reggaeton is more of an nyc/nj thing because of the large dominican and puerto rican population in both states. i had never heard of reggaeton until i moved up north, mainly because the concentration of latinos in the south (not counting florida) hail from mexico and central america. i don’t know if, in this stage, with its limited range and popularity in the states, reggaeton is a contender against american-based hip hop and rap. you have some artists like pitbull who is a cuban rapper from miami who is crossing the bridge, but he is not a reggaeton artist.

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 12:29 pm ¶

3. Lovely wrote:

   Pitbull?
   Is that the guy who sings’ I know you want me, you know I want you’?
   Well based on that , Hip hop and Rap have nothing to worry about!

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 12:34 pm ¶

4. Wendi Muse wrote:

   yeah. that’s pitbull, but again, he’s not a reggaeton artist. reggaeton is a mix of reggae-esque beats (every song has like…the saaaaame beat) and rap (usually in spanish, spanglish, or spanish-infused english). here is are some examples:

   calle 13 (funny enough, here with 3-6 mafia, who hail from memphis (yay, rep my birthplace!!)):
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qEqv-xAaJM
   

   or daddy yankee:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cnG_Al9qY

   or wisin y yandel:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzjCbZGUcs

   i chose these songs bc they are some of the most mainstream reggaeton artists out there right now (you have probably heard some of their stuff on mtv3, in commercials, or on bet…or making dumb political statements (cough ahem daddy yankee cough)

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 12:41 pm ¶

5. Ejunco wrote:

   Reggeaton seems more of an east coast thing I live in California and no one really listens to it unless its on the radio, but from most of the songs I heard it seems mostly party music.

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 12:49 pm ¶

6. MeeMee wrote:

   I live in California and heard reggaeton in L.A. alot and a little in the bay area and each time it makes me want to gouge my ears.

   But i’ve been known to get down to “gasolina”. Damn that’s a catchy sound

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:00 pm ¶

7. MeeMee wrote:

   *song

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:01 pm ¶

8. Naomi C wrote:

   i remember goin to parties in college where they played hip hop, reggaeton, and dancehall..

   at the time, hip hop was def mainstream for a lot of campus parties. even underground hip hop had a presence.
   i guess i saw reggaeton as way for the latinos on campus to show their cultural pride and for others to break a bit out of the mainstream.

   i never heard of any tension between the two before? well, unless u count daddy yankee backing mccain and jay-z etc supportin obama

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:06 pm ¶

9. N wrote:

   I love reggaeton as do many other black people, African American and Latino. Yes, it is more of an east coast thing as it is most popular with Puerto Ricans, Panamanians and Dominicans.

   Why there has to be a war, I don’t know.

   http://www.arrozconbeans.com, more on Salsa and Reggaeton and Bachata

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:29 pm ¶

10. Wendi Muse wrote:

    i think the big issue here may be ownership. i mean, i know plenty of people in the northeast who discount the validity of rap from any other region of the united states. they are the originators, so they want to be the ones who hold the keys to the genre’s evolution. i think it really boils down to that primarily.

    when you factor in race, though, i think it’s ridiculous to exclude latinos from the rap game and/or call some out for being copycats with reggaeton, particularly considering that, if we commit to the belief that rap got its start in the bronx, there were lots of blacks AND latinos involved in the development of the genre and the surrounding culture (i.e. breakdancing, tagging/graffit, clothing, etc) in its infancy.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:37 pm ¶

11. atlasien wrote:

    Calle 13 is really, really good… innovative both musically and lyrically (one of my favorite songs here) and making the right kind of political statements.

    One of their earlier songs really put me off them for a while — “Japón” — it’s one of the nastiest anti-Asian racist joke songs I’ve ever heard in my life (and unfortunately I’ve heard more than a few).

    Residente made an excuse for it, but it was extremely half-assed… “it didn’t reflect his real views about Asians” or something like that.

    They’ve made so many other good songs I still listen to them, although I still feel pretty conflicted.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:40 pm ¶

12. N wrote:

    Also by Raquel Rivera-
    NEW YORK RICANS FROM THE HIP-HOP ZONE.
    Her website is here-
    reggaetonica.blogspot.com

    Re- Calle 13- There are black Puerto Ricans who have ownership and authenticity issues with them similar to the ones African Americans have with Eminem.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:51 pm ¶

13. Fiqah wrote:

    ::: scratches head :::

    To quote a friend of mine: “Is this real beef or studio beef?” I guess part of the problem is that nobody has the hip-hop OR reggaeton market cornered, and that the audiences criss-cross in places like New York. While I wouldn’t dismiss the argument that it is HUGELY derivative (and no arguments to the contrary here, please – LOOK AT THE NAME) I’ve never viewed reggaeton as a threat to mainstream hip-hop. Also, growing up in the 1980s, I remember this same nonsense coming up when rap was in its infancy and freestyle was emerging. Freestlye didn’t destroy rap. Dancehall didn’t destroy roots reggae. Reggaeton will not destroy hip-hop. I dunno. The tension is very real, but the threat feels fabricated.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 2:16 pm ¶

14. Moviegirl wrote:

    I thought Pitbull was Brazilian?

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 2:19 pm ¶

15. Wendi Muse wrote:

    you’re thinking about sany pitbull, who is a funk carioca dj:
    http://www.myspace.com/sanypitbull

    http://www.overmundo.com.br/overblog/sany-pitbull-do-funk-carioca-por-ele-mesmo

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 2:32 pm ¶

16. GueraLola wrote:

    @ MeeMee me too
    a issue I have with reggeton that is seems to exacerbate the machismo among Latinos
    heck even some Latinos rappers have an issue with the misogyny in reggaeton. I also thought as reggaeton as a subgenre of hip hop like grunge is subgenre of alternative rock.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 3:01 pm ¶

17. gatamala wrote:

    Fiqah~ or is it journalist or blogger or even e-thug beef?

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 3:05 pm ¶

18. gogojojo wrote:

    @moviegirl he is cuban

    i’ve never heard him be classified as a reggaeton artist though. he’s always been apart of the miami hip-hop scene to me.

    definitely picking this book up.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 3:10 pm ¶

19. gogojojo wrote:

    i’m from the south (texas) and i had heard of reggaeton before going to college in the northeast. people had a lot more negative a reaction to it. though to be honest in my college experience people also had a negative reaction to any rap not produced in NY, NJ, or PA (Chicago artist like Kanye got *some* love.)

    i didn’t know about the “beef” between the two musics until i got to the north. where (IMO) people are a lot more concerned about “authentic” rap culture vs whatever else.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 3:41 pm ¶

20. Rosa wrote:

    Living in Puerto Rico I get to listen to Reggeaton every day if I like it or not blasting through speakers, on TV…EVERYWHERE!
    It’s the same machismo culture as Hip Hop. Loads of misogynism!! There are exceptions of course. Calle 13 is mentioned here but nobody gets that they were Hip Hop first and all this Reggeaton thing is like an in-joke. Like they’re making fun of the genre and rolled with it. Also, there is a healthy Hip Hop underground culture here that is NOT Reggeaton.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 3:43 pm ¶

21. Fiqah wrote:

    @gatamala: Right? I feel like we’ve been this route before.

    I confess that I was in stitches at the concept of “e-thug beef.” While I’m all for non-violent settling of interpersonal disputes, volleying flaming tweets will not win you any street cred.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 4:00 pm ¶

22. Joy wrote:

    Plenty of real race issues without people creating them (unless of course, it helps sell music *smile*). People I know that listen to reggaeton listen to hip-hop and rap too. So…what, there’s not enough room for too genres dominated by POCs? Caramanica needs to relax. (Can’t we all just get along, LOL)

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 4:55 pm ¶

23. Lyonside wrote:

    >To quote a friend of mine: “Is this real beef or studio beef?” I guess part of the problem is that nobody has the hip-hop OR reggaeton market cornered, and that the audiences criss-cross in places like New York.

    I like that phrase. But if it’s real, one wonders if this is another case of marginalized groups fighting for smaller pieces of the pie while nevery questioning who’s doling out the slices and who gets the biggest pieces.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 5:57 pm ¶

24. JRoc wrote:

    Personally I feel that the racial lines in hip-hop are not an issue at all. Any rapper in the game would love to be on a song with Eminem because he is an instant hit maker and one of the best to every do it. I don’t think there is THAT kind of tension in hip-hop or reggaeton. Reading this article is the first time I have ever heard of any tension between African-Americans and Latino rappers. Pitbull has crossed over and done multiple songs with African American artist such as Twista and Lil Jon. Fat Joe who is Puerto Rican has been on tons of tracks with African-American artist, just because he has had beef with 50 cent doesn’t mean that race is a part of the issue. I think that just because two artists are having beef and issues with one another I do not think race is a part of it at all. It is more lyrical content or style a rapper portrays, such as being a gangster but not having any street cred at all. As far as reggaeton goes it is hit or miss with me, some I like but most I don’t, but that is just me.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 7:16 pm ¶

25. ashlynn wrote:

    My personal thing with reggaeton is that it’s pretty inaccessible. for starters, you have the language barrier that arises in most songs. Then there’s the awful lack of originality in the actual music behind it- on one hand, how cool would it be that a whole genre could exist using one beat, AC/DC style(lol)? but on the other, it’s just not happening. Before anyone jumps at me for the language bit, it’s that same point that i make with rap- it’s inaccessible. Nowadays, most kids have to imagine half of the stuff that rappers talk smack about in order to even vibe with the song.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 7:35 pm ¶

26. Alegna wrote:

    Framing issues around a battle between African Americans vs. Latinos always bugs me. Because those are not mutually exclusive categories and they seem to misinterpret and minimize the overlap that exists between groups.

    I consider myself a member of both and this framing always irks me.

    In addition, hip hop has always had multi-cultural connections in that latinos are not
    “new” to hiphop having been part of its birth since the beginning. Reggatone (which honestly I don’t know a lot about) seems to be, as some have already said, a “baby” of hip hop and reggae that uses both as inspiration and source to create something new and reggatone artists seem to float between the genres.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 8:55 pm ¶

27. atlasien wrote:

    @ashlynn: I don’t think you can really argue that it’s more inaccessible than almost any other genre of music, even leaving aside questions of language.

    Take indie rock. It seems like a huge amount of it boils down to a lead male singer with a fuzzed-out nasal kinda-whiny style complaining over jangly guitars about how his girlfriend doesn’t really understand him. I have neither the inclination nor patience to differentiate within the genre. But for people who do have the patience, I’m sure there all kinds of subtleties and depths to be appreciated.

    Music like The Wiggles and Raffi… now that’s accessibility.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 9:18 pm ¶

28. illament wrote:

    Would never listen to reggaeton on my own or as mood music. I prefer just straight up hiphop or reggae. To me that sound doesn’t have the power to be deep like a reggae song and is not as versatile as rap music can be. I believe it more of a subgenre. I prefer salsa and merengue as being the main music in the latin carribean regions. I do love how it makes the women go crazy in the club. It gets airplay here in the Chi.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 1:38 am ¶

29. Lyonside wrote:

    LOL!

    I have a proposal for you, atlasien – if we ever meet up, you school me in the good hip-hop, and I’ll find you the non-self-obsessed indie/alt rock (or if it’s selfobsessed, the instruments or melody make up for it)…

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 3:07 am ¶

30. LaurynX wrote:

    I’m w/ gogojojo, I’m from TX and I’ve BEEN heard (and listened to) Reggaeton. Daddy Yankee was big w/ my Mexican friends years ago. It was all over the radio here (then again we have a lot of spanish language hip hop/urban radio stations). I still have a lot of reggaeton on my computer. I was unaware there was a “war” between hip hop and reggaeton.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 3:24 am ¶

31. Nin wrote:

    Well, 5o Cent and Fat Joe got into it a few years on the MTV Video Music Awards. They yelled all kinds of racial insults at each other on stage.

    However, I doubt 50 cent vs. Fat Joe had anything to do with music and more to do with egos and the need to “manly” and violent.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 3:59 am ¶

32. Moni wrote:

    Would Brazilian “funky” music be considered part of this? I saw a parody of a funky music video on a Brazilian sketch comedy show and I thought I was looking at a typical hip hop video….girls in booty shorts, men in flashy jewelry jumping around, lyrics making no sense but with a banging beat…I still don’t know how I feel about the reggaeton/funky genre either, but I am almost through with hip hop….

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 8:06 am ¶

33. Wendi Muse wrote:

    moni,
    the genre you’re talking about is called funk (not funky, but it sounds like that bc of the brazilian accent when they say the word; it’s usually called baile funk in the states, though this is a bit inaccurate bc the parties are called bailes, not the genre). it’s not classified as reggaeton and has totally different origins (funk carioca, though it began kind of as more of a conscious type of genre and evolved into something more pop meets banal), its biggest influence being miami bass music (like 2live crew) mixed with tradional northern brazilian musical instruments (more on funk carioca here: in english: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baile_funk and in portuguese: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baile_funk). and the lyrics makes sense, you just have to speak portuguese to understand them (and have a handle on brazilian portuguese slang)

    here’s an example (it’s one of my favorite funk songs) “Solteira (single girl)” by Gaiola das Popozudas (cage of hotties/girls with big booties (p.s. she is a bit like the little kim of brazil)): NSFW
    
    i love this video bc it reminds me of one of those cheesy 80s mall make your own video getups or like..cable access

    here she is performing the same song at Tsunami, which is one of the big bailes in Rio:
    

    the summarized gist of the lyrics (translated) is: i’m single now, so you can’t hold me back. i’m going to put on a super short mini skirt, go dance, and get any guy i want.
    if you want a play by play translation, let me know (i just have like 5 minutes right now and don’t have enough time to do it!)

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 10:11 am ¶

34. Wendi Muse wrote:

    here’s the video for “late” (bark), the lyrics of which translate (summarized): i’m hot, you’d better bark when i walk by (She even has a funny dog food reference and a reference to doing it doggy style)…like i said, she’s like lil kim of brazil lol

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 10:14 am ¶

35. Wendi Muse wrote:

    this, on the other hand, is brazilian rap. two really good ones are gabriel o pensador (who is now retired with a family and whatnot) and marcelo d2

    gabriel:
    

    marcelo d2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz2iz6MEtLM
    (a ton of the people from the cast of Alice are in this video, too!)

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 10:19 am ¶

36. Natalia wrote:

    I have been listening to reggaeton ever since I was 10 and it became popular in my country. Then in the US, I heard both and to me they were both the same, clubbing music. I do like reggaeton better because I understand it better and lately they have been adding beats that are from cumbia or merengue, there’s a song that even has a lambada (brazilian style) beats. I understand a lot of people don’t like reggaeton because 1. the language, and 2. there is one beat that is always in the background (which I never realized until a college friend pointed it out to me)
    Anyway, I have never heard of “beef” between the two genres, to me they are very similar (especially those music videos that i don’t really like). However, I do know that there are problems between the races and I feel that by siding with one genre is a way of showing their pride. But I also feel that these problems vary depending on location. I know of some places where African-Americans and Latinos get along fine and they understand each other cultures, but there are some places in which their “war” is so tough that is becoming a safety problem for the rest of the community – for example in my city.
    I would also like to say that I’m surprise at how people see these is as a Latino and African-American problem, but many problem are more specific that just that. For example, I’m from Mass, and some years ago there was a problem between Dominicans and African-Americans. I believe that the problem is still there, but it has been overshadow by the problem between African-American, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans against people from Central America (or anyone else who doesn’t look black, puerto rican, or dominican). I have huge issues with that since it has affected me personally, but that goes beyond this topic. My point is that I believe that these problems vary depending on the region and that some artist use these music tensions as a way to fight and make money.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 10:42 am ¶

37. N wrote:

    @Natalia
    I understand,w here I live the tensions are not between various afro-descended groups, but the African Americans, Jamaicans and Afro-Latinos vs non Afro-Latinos. Race is the dividing line, not anglo vs latino.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 11:10 am ¶

38. Raquel Z. Rivera wrote:

    I’m so happy our book is being discussed here on Racialicious. Race/ethnicity issues come up a lot in many of the book’s chapters.

    One of my favorites is a re-print of a Tego Calderón piece you can access here:
    http://reggaetonica.blogspot.com/2007/02/tego-calderon-on-black-pride.html

    Check also Tego here:
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94243997

    My co-editor Wayne has an excellent chapter in our book titled “From Música Negra to Reggaeton Latino” and plenty of blog posts that touch on race/ethnicity issues such as:
    “La Musica Negra (Hispana?)” http://wayneandwax.com/?p=94

    Marisol LeBron is another blogger exploring these issues, for example, here:
    “Reggaeton’s White Hope and the ‘Reggaeton Crash’”
    http://postpomonuyorican.blogspot.com/2009/06/reggaetons-white-hope-and-reggaeton.html

    I’ve got quite a few on my own blog, for example, “Will the Real Blanquitos Please Stand Up?: Class, Race and Reggaeton”
    http://reggaetonica.blogspot.com/2006/08/will-real-blanquitos-pleas_115637030500548739.html

    N has also blogged consistently on the topic at http://www.arrozconbeans.com

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 12:38 pm ¶

39. Coco wrote:

    This tension between ‘African Americans’ and ‘Latinos’ is something I could never grasp because for me to be either is being Black and one of each other. The problem is that there are many Latinos that are part of the Diaspora that try to negate their “blackness”.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 1:52 pm ¶

40. w&w wrote:

    I want to second Raquel’s thanks for bringing our book into the conversation here.

    For those of us who recognize that afro/latino are not mutually exclusive categories, much of the animus referred to in our intro might indeed seem absurd. But for those who doubt there’s a great deal of animosity around reggaeton manifesting across ethnic and racial lines, I’d point you to this collection of slurs, for example –
    http://wayneandwax.com/?p=141

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 2:53 pm ¶

41. N wrote:

    Aw heck, now everyone will figure out the N stands for Nina.

    I second the motion- check out Raquel’s site and Marisol’s site, but also http://www.wayneandwax.com.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 3:00 pm ¶

42. Hibbs4Prez wrote:

    Sorry. It can’t be a race war if a large portion if not the majority of the musicians on the Puerto Rican side are also of African descent. Cultural war may be more accurate. But then again this is afterall hip-hop in which every minor or major beef is blown up to world war-like proportions by those in the middle of it and those reporting on it.

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 9:48 pm ¶

43. ashlynn wrote:

    @atlasien: now that, I can agree with. I listen to indie rock, but it takes me a loong time before I can pick on music that I really like (Death Cab for Cute FTW). My thing mostly lies in the beat, but indie rock has plenty of inaccessible melodies that I can’t get down with either, so I appreciate that POV on it.

    Posted 03 Jul 2009 at 2:09 am ¶

44. rsychc wrote:

    If you want to read every account of tensions between groups as a race war then so be it, but it’s not an illegitimate statement to make that although reggaeton is performed by afro latinos (and not exclusively at that), hip hop is coming from a place some latinos don’t or won’t identify with, just as reggaeton is sometimes received by African Americans as coming from a different place and also unable to identify with it.

    I’ve been to parties where the dj played both, and you would have mostly African Americans on the floor when hip hop plays, and then they’re replaced by Latinos when reggaeton comes on. However, I’ve also been to parties where everyone enjoys all the music. It’s all about what you’re exposed to.

    I don’t think afro Latinos have to have the same sentiments on race as African Americans, and I would hesitate to prescribe it to a black denial. To myself, an afro Latina woman, my experience as afro Latina is not at all parallel with that of African Americans, and brings its own complications. I’ve worked to learn about my culture, and learn about and even accept the complications of where I come from. I’m by no means embracing them, but I’m also not ready to start any kind of conversation that revolves around “race wars” or about racial tensions, since it’s obvious half the commenters are already scratching their heads and going “but aren’t lots of Latinos black?”, which should make it obvious that it goes a bit beyond the lines that people like to form in the sand, replicating that same custom the US has of dividing things into categories without taking nuances into account.

    Posted 04 Jul 2009 at 9:05 am ¶

45. Moni wrote:

    Wendi,

    Thanks for the info….I usually say the word “funk” in Portuguese and not write it, hence the misspelling…and when I said the lyrics made no sense, I was talking about the parody, where they were doing a funk song , complete with the booty shaking and everything, to something that was completely off topic…I don’t remember what now, but it was something completely inappropriate for the song… sort of like a Weird Al version of funk, if that makes any sense…anyway, I have been studying Portuguese for over 2 years, and while I am far from fluent, I am able to grasp some of what they are saying (sometimes)…actually, as I write this, I am being subjected to some very loud funk music that is playing from the lobby of my apartment building here in Salvador (there is a birthday party going on)…I can appreciate the the 2 Live Crew type influence…funk music, like 2 Live Crew’s music, makes me want to dance and sing along even though I know I shouldn’t….

    Posted 04 Jul 2009 at 6:48 pm ¶

46. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Wendi Muse
    Just wanted to say that “Solteira” is one of the best/worst things to happen to me this summer. I cannot get it out of my head. And I don’t mind.

    Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 10:12 am ¶

47. Wendi Muse wrote:

    a.d. nix
    i know, right? the song came out in like 2006 or 2007, but people still play it to death here in brazil. it is seriously that good. lol

    Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 10:56 am ¶

48. J.R wrote:

    I remember that article by Byron… he came off extremely hateful.

    The whole thing with American Hip Hop vs. Reggaetón, from what I’ve experienced personally in NYC, is a lot of African Americans seemed to hate reggaetón and were very vocal about it. I think a major reason why, if you can call it a reason, is the MAJOR mainstream popularity it received in a short amount of time. They played reggaetón on Hot 97 and 105.1… they even played on Z100! You had people bitching about the playing of reggaetón on hip hop stations but honestly, they played it for like one hour on Sunday only. Out of nowhere I had black friends telling me how wak reggaetón was and how much they hated it. They knew I loved it. All I wondered was “why, if you don’t understand it?”
    Many used the “it all has the same beat/sounds the same” excuse. Many said it was a wak wannabe reggae. Many didn’t really have a real reason. My ex used both the reasons I mentioned but after a while he admitted he doesn’t understand it so he wouldn’t criticize it anymore.

    I remember in 2008 reggaetón artists called “Wisin y Yandel” were signing their cds in Virgin Megastore and some dude asked what the long line around the block was for. When someone answered “reggaetón artists” the guy sucked his teeth and said something like “ah forget, that listen to some Reggae!” When people asked ME what the line for I just said Latin or Spanish artists because if somebody said something negative we’d probably end up arguing lol.

    Alot of people right away didn’t like reggaetón had “reggae” in its name. They didn’t like the association with reggae period for whatever reason.

    Hating something you don’t understand is ignorant IMO … I don’t diss French music… I don’t know the French language lol.

    Posted 13 Jul 2009 at 12:29 am ¶