“From the Wilds of America” – Analyzing the Idea of “British Colonial America” in Steampunk [Essay]

by Guest Contributor Ay-leen the Peacemaker, originally published at Tales of the Urban Adventurer

    “In the colonies the truth stood naked, but the citizens of the mother country preferred it with clothes on.”- Jean-Paul Sartre


Prologue

When I first became interested in steampunk last year, I posed a question to one of my friends.

Me: “So… I was wondering about steampunk, where does colonialism fit in?”

Friend: “Colonialism? Like in the Colonies?”

Me: “Like being from the colonies.”

Friend: “Oh, you can do that. They’re different types of subgenres in steampunk, and it can take place in America.”

Pause right there. I wasn’t referring to America. Or was I? Yes, my friends and I are from the US and steampunks, and most identify our personas as being from the “Colonies.” Yet their idea of what the Colonies represented in steampunk—aka an alternative America that was still under control of the British Empire during the Victorian Era—and my interpretation of the colonies—aka the actual ones that had existed during the Victorian Era—were vastly different. Which leads to the questions I’d like to explore here. Why is the concept of the United States as a colonized America so appealing to steampunks? Is this notion damaging to steampunks of color (SoCs), whose histories are negatively intertwined with the realities of colonialism? Does the idea of a colonial America promote or denounce the imperialism that existed during the Age of Empire?

Part 1: True colo(u)rs: Re-interpreting the past relationship between England and America

I suggest two interpretations of the concept of a colonized America. One represents an idealized harmony fueled by the American fascination with (or, as some might say, fetishization of) British culture. Here, I refer to this fascination as Anglophilia, which, according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary is defined as “a person who greatly admires or favors England and things English.” Anglophilia is a term that can apply to any person of any country or background who fits this definition, but for the purposes of this essay I’ll only refer to the particular US-based Anglophile perspective, and not to the Anglophile community as a whole.

American anglophila stems from the common ground that both American and British culture share, both linguistically and historically. American interest in British culture has also been long-standing: from admiration of British writers that were considered the masters of Western literature to today’s entertainment figures in current pop culture. Examples from the past forty years feature a wide range of British cultural figures that have become American obsessions as well, including the Beatles, James Bond, Dr. Who, Monty Python, Princess Di, and Harry Potter. In addition, Americans envision British culture as being more intelligent, more polite, and more dignified than their own. Plus, those charming accents never hurt.

The steampunk aesthetic movement gave American steampunks another outlet to express their Anglophile tendencies. If American steampunks can’t pretend to be British themselves (though some steampunk personas have no hesitation in doing so), then Americans can at least re-establish that lost-long connection to Mother England by re-creating the former colonial connection. And maybe, by some sort of historical/cultural osmosis, we can regain that Victorian elegance we had begun to lose when we did that silly thing with the tea and the protests and such.

This is the nostalgic interpretation of Steampunk, an interpretation that is further explained in Cory Gross’ essay “Varieties of Steampunk Experience” in Steampunk Magazine, Issue #1: “Nostalgic Steampunk is the idealized Victorian Era, the nineteenth century as it ought to have been. Nostalgic Steampunk revels, much like Victoriana itself, in the elegance and the spectacle of the Empire. It forgets, or chooses not to remember, the dirtiness and the imperialism of this same Empire.” (65) An idealized colonial America fits in with this nostalgic viewpoint: in this world, the causes for American rebellion against the British Empire – among them being the Proclamation of 1763, which limited landowning beyond the Appalachians, the increasing amount of taxation without representation, the rise of John Locke’s ideas of social contract and a republic form of government, the forced housing of British soldiers in people’s homes etc— are all forgotten for the idealized notion of America keeping its British roots. This ideal is a flawed one: besides ignoring the harsh historical realities behind the American rebellion, it also disregards the reality that America never *had* 100% British roots. There were the native populations to consider; New Amsterdam, one of the first major European settlements on the US eastern coast is Dutch; the southern parts of the United States were claimed by Spain and France first.

But perhaps this vision of America, “England’s darling across the pond” is not the one upheld by American steampunks. This second, more negative interpretation of America’s relationship with England is also evident in steampunk creative culture. Even in our imaginations, the relationship between England and America is not a loving one, but one where the English still have their noses turned up toward their American cousins. In Gail Carriger’s steampunk fantasy Soulless for instance, the American colonies were the rebel children that broke away and became ruled by religious superstition, unlike reasonable, atheist England, and the English protagonist has the lowest opinion towards the clueless and awkward American scientist Mr. MacDougall. Indeed, the crass and forward American is frequently associated with the “Weird West” subgenre of steampunk: the most prominent representative of this steampunk archetype would be Lee Scoresby, the blunt, gunman from Texas, from Philip Pullman’s The Golden Compass.

A second way of interpreting a colonial America, then, would be as an opportunity to explore the negatives of Empire by people of a nation who, in today’s modern culture, has become the most powerful in the world. To subvert the idea of today’s American supremacy by returning it to an alternative, chained colonial past would fit into the tenants of steampunk—defined as a subversive genre—perfectly. Michael Chabon’s “The Martian Agent,” featured in the Steampunk anthology edited by Ann and Jeff VanderMeer might be considered as a story that portrays a de-romanticized colonial America. Another subversive interpretation of colonial America can be found in the credible alternative history and re-drawn geopolitical map represented in Steam Century’s mystery games.

Part 2: Imperial Attitudes and the “Do you have a flag?” quandary

In light of a colonial America, however, I think it is important that we consider Britain’s other colonized nations that existed during this time period, if only to realistically compare how a colonial America might be treated by its mother country. It could be taken for granted by American steampunks that, as colonial citizens of the British Empire, they would have received treatment and respect equal to that of any British citizen. In reality, that would be doubtful. As Edward Said explains in his book Culture and Imperialism, as the conquering nation, England possessed a patriarchal attitude toward its subjected nations throughout history:

We [The British] are dominant because we have the power (industrial, technological, military, moral), and they don’t, because of which they are not dominant; they are inferior, we are superior…and so on and so on. One sees this tautology, holding with a particular tenacity in British views of Ireland and the Irish as early as the sixteenth century; it will operate during the eighteenth century with opinions about white colonialists in Australia and the Americas (Australians remained an inferior race well into the twentieth century); it gradually extends its sway to include practically the whole world beyond the British shores. (106)

Indeed, not only would the inequality of power (and the patronizing attitude) mostly likely be sustained between England and her American colony, but I will also acknowledge that the existence of an American colony can highlight the levels of institutionalized racism that existed during the Age of Empire.

One level is the global geopolitial one. Out of England’s entire history of conquered and controlled territories, the American colonies got off the lightest while under British reign. Compare America’s colonial oppression with that of the Indians under the British Raj or the Australian settlers (and prisoners) versus the aboriginal peoples of Australia. Even nations and political regions who were not conquered outright by the British Empire but affected by its foreign policy of creating spheres of influence—like Central Asia during the Great Game or China’s Opium Wars—suffered lasting detrimental effects that I doubt an American colony would have had.

This international scale also intersects with the second level of racial hierarchy that would exist within the colony itself. The oppression that white American colonialists faced from Britain cannot compare to the hierarchy of power and oppression that existed between the American colonist and the native. Consider, for example, the colonists’ treatment of Native Americans and slaves from Africa and the Caribbean. In fact, any interpretation of a colonialist nation, the colonialist, by definition, is still the conqueror. This observation is cleverly summed up by Eddie Izzard’s famous comedic routine about British imperialism:

    “We stole countries with the cunning use of flags!”

    Yeah, just sail around the world and stick a flag in.

    “I claim India for Britain!”

    They go, “You can’t claim us, we live here! 500 million of us!”

    “Do you have a flag?”

    “We don’t need a bloody flag! It’s our country, you bastards!”

    “No flag, no country, you can’t have one! That’s the rules that I’ve just made up, and I’m backing it up with this gun.…”


Conclusion: Playing “Capture the Flag”

The idea of a Colonial America can lead to various possibilities in exploring alternative pasts, both utopian and dystopian—or, using the steampunk terms that Gross proposes in his essay, Nostalgic Steampunk and Melancholic Steampunk. To go with the Nostalgic ideal of a colonized America also risks sustaining a romanticized notion of colonialism that ignores the injustices of the past and how the ripple effect of those injustices extends to the present. I propose that Gross’ contrasting definition, Melancolic Steampunk, as the interpretation of steampunk that SoCs should consider:

As Melancholic Steampunk then, we see the very things Nostalgic Steampunk tries so hard to ignore brought out into the glaring sun. We see the corruption, the decadence, the imperialism, the poverty and the intrigue. And we see them not as much as an indictment of the Victorian era but as an indictment of our own, whether directly or by chopping away at our society’s Victorian roots. (65)

As pessimistic as Melancholic Steampunk sounds, it is also a definition of steampunk that gives SoCs the opportunity to confront our histories, since we cannot afford the luxury of nostalgia for the past. As Wendi Muse commented in her Racialicious essay “Nostalgia: a Sport for the Privileged”:

I suppose that is the magic of history. We can imagine it as we wish. We can simply ignore the facts in their entirety and craft an imaginary, historical fantasy world catered to our specific interests, in complete ignorance of the plight of well, just about everyone except for wealthy, white, male, straight, Christian landowners.

But, for now, I’ll stay right here in the present and imagine a better future to come.

As the saying goes, history is written by the victors; in steampunk, history can be re-written by the rebels. Steampunk gives SoCs the ability to imagine a better past: not by ignoring its mistakes or glossing over the stories of the silenced, but by re-envisioning a past, where, finally, our stories are included, our struggles are acknowledged, and the “magic of history” is imagined on our own terms. Already in this essay, I have mentioned a wide range of steampunk creative artists that embrace this philosophy. This interpretation fits in with the gaming vision of Steam Century, the political bent of Steampunk magazine, in addition to the most obvious modern example in the genre—William Gibson and Bruce Sterling, whose dark vision of steampunk in The Difference Engine is widely regarded as one of the genre’s keystones. Melancholic steampunk makes room for a messy, conflicted, complicated colonial America, but one that American SoCs and white steampunks can each recognize as their own.

Some ideas of racial issues that would be fascinating to explore in a colonial, steampunk America: the role of the Chinese in constructing the American railroads; the early emancipation of black slaves in America when Britain abolished slavery in 1833, or even the transformation of the American South using steampunk technology to forgo the need for slavery at all; the relation between the British colonialists and the Native Americans over time.

Thus, even with all of its difficulties and complexities, this colonial America gives both SoCs and white steampunks the voice and the opportunity to engage in creative dialogue with one another. This is our game, our turf, our rules—and there are flags aplenty in the realm of steampunk.

Sources and References:

Carriger, Gail. Soulless. New York: Orbit. 2009.

Chabon, Michael. “The Martian Agent.” Steampunk Anthology. Ann and Jeff VanderMeer, eds. San Francisco: Tachyon Publications. 2008.

Gross, Cory. “Varieties of Steampunk Experience.” Steampunk Magazine. Issue 1.
http://www.steampunkmagazine.com/inside/downloads/

HMA Badger. Steam Century.
http://www.hmabadger.com/

Izzard, Eddie. Except from “Dressed to Kill.” Cake or Death. Transcript by Mark Zastrow.
http://www.auntiemomo.com/cakeordeath/d2ktranscription.html

Muse, Wendi. “Nostalgia: a Sport for the Privileged.” Racialicious.
http://www.racialicious.com/2009/06/15/nostalgia-a-sport-for-the-privileged/

Merriam-Webster. Merriam-Webster Online.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/

Pullman, Philip. The His Dark Materials Trilogy. New York: Random House. 2003.

Said, Edward W. Culture and Imperialism. New York: Vintage. 1994.

(Image Credit: Steam Century Games)

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  1. 07.06:top.10.reads « must be spoken, made verbal, and shared. on 06 Jul 2009 at 7:49 am

    [...] “From the Wilds of America” – Analyzing the Idea of “British Colonial America” in Steampun…. [...]

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Comments

  1. Jha wrote:

    I’m of the impression that Nostalgic and Melancholic steampunking are simply opposite ends of the spectrum, and anybody can fall in between. For example, I am fond of the high culture of the Victorians, who produced a great deal of interesting, provocative literature. At the same time, I’m aware of the problems. I really do believe that it’s possible to find that happy medium wherein we take all that was good, and tackle the bad head-on.

    It’s just tackling the bad stuff head-on – the racism, the classism, the sexism – that’s so difficult, because as I said, we bring our attendant baggages to the fight, which blind us to the problems right in front of our faces.

    I guess it’s that if we dress dapper and think about the issue, the only thing people see is our dress, not our thoughts. Which I think is why we so need to challenge -isms when we see them, or at least, create spaces where they won’t be tolerated.

  2. Marcy Webb wrote:

    I gather from the post that there are SoC (Steampunks of Color). What is the attraction of this subculture to people of color? Just curious. This is the first time I am reading about Steampunks. So, I have learned something very new today.

  3. jessssssss wrote:

    I’m mostly a lurker and only a dabbler in Steampunk, but I’ve been loving these essays!

  4. Maggie wrote:

    This is a fascinating discussion. I must know where that map is from, though. Is there fiction to go with it?

  5. Iggles wrote:

    I really wish that that map was real..

  6. SHC wrote:

    Hmm. I was really only aware of the boingboing version of steampunk, which is basically “check out this clockwork ebook reader SO COOL”

  7. Ray wrote:

    Yinka Shonibare, a Nigerian/English artist has done some very interesting work with Imperialism and Africa.

    This is the article TIME just put out: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1907167,00.html

    Some more work and information here: http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/turnerprize/2004/shonibare.shtm

    Although obviously not a Steampunk, Shonibare’s work may help open discussion on history and identity, etc.

  8. Evan wrote:

    We would have been better off as a British colony far longer than 1776.

    Why?

    1. Slavery would have been abolished around 1800 instead of 1865 after 600,000 Americans lost their lives in the Civil War. God knows how many black slaves died from malnutrition, no medical care, physical abuse and outright murder by the white slave owners.

    2. This is a debatable point, but I think if we were still under British rule, the genocidal toll against Native Americans would have been less severe. I really think the Crown would placed greater protections against the theft of lands and forced relocation.

    The question is: is life better for an indigenous person in Canada or the United States? I would bet on Canada but I think people in this forum would argue this point.

    3. We would be Canada. More civilized. National Health Care for everyone. Less hell bent on defending a militarized empire. Ice hockey would be our national sport.

  9. Iggles wrote:

    Evan, good points. I love reading about history, but I never gave much thought to what could have been. It’s kind of painful to think about.

    I do wish the US was more like Canada. I wish we still have buffalo. I really wish manifest destiny hadn’t happened. Sigh….

  10. E. Grant wrote:

    @Evan

    Actually, lacrosse would be your national sport, with hockey having a kind of “me too” status.

    Re:2. I’m not First Nations or Inuit or Metis or anything, but I believe that while Canada may have been less nasty in the 19th cent. our record in the 20th–creation of Nunavut notwithstanding–is pretty damned tarnished by residential schools. I don’t know if there was any kind of parallel situation in the US.

  11. Persia wrote:

    Evan, that’s assuming the British would never have supported or encouraged the cotton trade– just to start with. I don’t think your assumptions are necessarily true, especially when you take European behavior in African colonies and India.

  12. cocolamala wrote:

    i don’t think canada is a racial utopia, they have issues dealing with visible minorities, and they also have racial disparities across educational, healthcare, wealth accumulation.

    i think that the bulk of evil done by slavery happened before 1833. many generations of families, many traditions were wiped away between 1600-1800. Although avoiding the civil war is a desirable outcoome, ending slavery 30-40 years early doesn’t make much material difference by itself.

    i do not think that the effects of steampunk technology would necessarily benefit enslaved populations. I am reminded of the sinking feeling i got when I learned that the invention of the cotton gin — which made cotton production much more efficient — also increased the workload of slaves.

    The technology does not automatically excuse, prevent, or wipe away oppressive imperialist/ colonialist structures. that still depends upon who has access to technology and how that technology is applied.

  13. Persia wrote:

    E. Grant, both countries have a nasty history with residential schools. The mortality rate in the US doesn’t seem to have been as high, but that’s just from a glance at Wikipedia, so who knows?

  14. Abu Sinan wrote:

    @Evan,

    As a firm Republican (in the anti-monarchy sense) I would argue your points.

    1. The UK banned the slave trade in 1807, but not slavery. Slavery was not banned for all colonies in the British empire until 1833. The act gave that abolished it gave compensation to all slave owners.

    It didnt free slaves, rather put them into a series of indentured servant programs which didnt end until 1840.

    So you are about 40 years off. Of course 24 years is better than nothing, but way off what you are talking about.

    2. The Brits were no lovers of Indians and certainly would have acted just as the early Americans under their own rule did. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that the Brits brought the use of biological warfare to North America when they knowingly handed out small pox infected to American Indians which they virtually destroyed the tribes involved.

    When one looks at British history it would be hard to make an argument that they would be nicer to their native inhabitants.

    3. We very well would NOT be Canada. The issues that tore about the early colonies might have been delayed, but I dont think would have been put off forever. Rather than Canada I think we’d have been the Republic of Ireland and Canada Northern Ireland.

    It is odd you talk about defending a militarised empire, the Canadians do so until this very day. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians fought for the extremely militarised British Empire in WW1, WW2, and conflicts all over the world.

    They serve in the British army to this day.

    So you might be willing to serve for a monarchy for a negligible set of ideas. Me? I prefer to bend knee to no one.

    @Iggles,

    We still have buffalo in the US, I have seen them myself in the wild and know people who farm them. Certainly not in the numbers of the 1800s, but the idea that the Brits wouldnt have slaughtered the herds isnt based on any real history.

  15. E. Grant wrote:

    @ Abu Sinan

    What do you mean when you say “They [Canadians] serve in the British army to this day”? Are you working under some kind of bizarre misunderstanding about the Canadian Armed Forces, or are you talking about the odd dude or dudette with dual citizenship–giving the statement equal accuracy with “Canadians serve in the US Army/Israeli Army/Irish Army”? Just curious.

    By the way, modern democratic constitutional monarchy–especially when the monarchy is overseas–is pretty awesome, IMO. It is preferable in many ways to lots of (small -r) republican set ups.

  16. GueraLola wrote:

    wait does that mean that Califorina would be part of Mexico? Sweet!

    frankly I agree with you Abu Sinan I highly doubt that Native American would have been better under the English rule. I actually believe it would be worse. Also I wondering what would have happened to the Irish during the Great Famine? or would that also take place in the U.S?

  17. Evan wrote:

    @Abu Sinan,

    Canada is in the US and UK sphere of influence. Canada is a natural ally of the US and Britain based on common political and lingual ties. But Canada does not have an empire like the US. It’s true that Canadian troops are serving in Afghanistan as part of the NATO security presence. However, Canada didn’t invade and impose regime change in countries like Iraq or Afghanistan.

  18. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “I wish we still have buffalo.”
    Uh… we do. They’re not around in the numbers they used to be, but they’re very much extant.

    And while the British would probably have shot the hell out of the buffalo (to say nothing of wolves, bears, and mountain lions), I doubt the results would have been much different than what actually did happen.

  19. E. Grant wrote:

    For anyone interested in a little Alternative History fiction (not exactly steampunk, though) that takes place in a North America in which the US Revolutionary War did not take place, you could try “The Two Georges” by Harry Turtledove and (that) Richard Dreyfuss.

    It takes place some time early in the 20th century, and let me see what I remember … technological has advanced more slowly, Black people get saddled with a whole different set of sterotypes–less negative, but stereotypes nontheless, the IRA/Fenians are active terrorists on the continent (and the Kennedy family may or may not be tied to them) … uh, I think Russia retains its American colonies … an are comprising Southern Ontario, and maybe northern Michigan Pennsylvannia etc. is a prosperous modern First Nations autonomous region with it’s own distinct governance and relationship with the Crown, etc.

    Not high literature, and not especially focussed on race but a decent genre read.

  20. Ay-Leen wrote:

    Thank you all for your feedback! ^-^

    And to answer some questions here–

    @Marcy – I know Jha recently wrote a post here explaining steampunk and her own perspective as a person of color, if you’re interested. Personally, I’ve gotten into the steampunk aesthetic through anime (Full Metal Alchemist being a big one for me), and I’ve always had an interest in 19th century literature. My friends had formed their own steampunk crew over a year ago, and I was interested in forming my own persona and roleplay with them (the role playing aspect isn’t necessary part of steampunk, but it’s how I got involved). Except that, from a person of color’s perspective, I had issues with steampunk that my white steampunk friends didn’t realize (which I also wrote about. Instead of turning away from the aesthetic, though, I wanted to figure out a way to find my place in the steampunk movement. I think there are a lot of PoCs interested in steampunk, but we need more visibility.

    @ Maggie & Iggles – The map at the top is actually the alternative history map used by the group Steam Century, who I mentioned in the article. The crew is the HMS Badger, and they conduct steampunk mystery games at cons — I never had an opportunity to go to one, since they’re based in the Midwest, but I really wish they’d come out east!

    @Evan (#8) – Actually, the story “The Martian Agent” by Michael Chabon is a steampunk story set during the Civil War in the British Colonies — he sets the premise up of the Civil War still occurring, except this time around, it’s considered the second American rebellion as the South tries to break away.

    @cocolamala (#12) I agree that the introduction of steampunk technology doesn’t necessarily mean that the effects of slavery would go away. I can see the plantations of the South all being harvested using automatons, for instance, but would newly freed slaves have the opportunity to run one of those plantations?

  21. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    I think American Indians would’ve been better off under the British too. British rule couldn’t have been any worse than American rule, which was basically genocidal.

    Alas, the smallpox-infested blanket story is largely a myth:

    http://www.bluecorncomics.com/smallpox.htm

    FYI, some First Nations people have produced a Native steampunk Web comic. I reviewed it here:

    http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2008/12/native-steampunk-web-comic.html

  22. Jadey wrote:

    I just really have to put this out here right now:

    Canada’s colonial history is NOT GOOD. Canada’s track record of racism and oppression is BAD. I don’t want to start playing some kind of weird comparison game because I don’t think these complex experiences and histories and cultures can necessarily be compared in a meaningful way, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the US being more like Canada would solve a lot of colonialist problems. For evidence of Canada’s truly effed up colonial history, start by checking out the Indian Act. Google can probably get you started. The residential schools *were* bad, but they are just one part of a larger push for assimilation and elimination.

    I get that a lot of people reading and commenting here are not from Canada, and I have to confess that my own cultural awareness outside of Canada (hell, outside of southern Ontario and kinda Vancouver) is not strong, but I just really want to debunk the meme that Canada is some kind of major improvement over other colonial nations and the US in particular. It’s not. It’s really, really not. (I would specifically rather more white Canadians, or at least the ones I know, saw it that way, but even in general I think it should be known.)

    My reactions to this piece, as someone whose involvement with steampunk is peripheral and largely aesthetic:

    1. The map made me want to cry. Partly because it’s Canada Day today and I can hear fireworks. I can look at that map and still see someone’s vision for a colonized country, where my friend’s homes and histories have been taken from them and given to someone like me.

    2. Here’s maybe where my US-cluelessness comes in, but is the narrative of colonial oppression in the US really about *white settlers*? Seriously? That is messed up.

    3. I am personally 100% opposed to pro-colonial narratives because I AM a colonist. Right now. My country is actively colonizing this land and a targeted population of its inhabitants and simply by being a citizen of this nation I am implicated in that. The only thing I can do to change that is to actively fight against it. I feel like the pro-colonial spirit is embedded so deeply, I run into it wherever I go. Sci fi television, national birthday celebrations, and, yeah, nostalgia. (Thank you especially to everyone sharing anti-colonial steampunk material, by the way.)

    This isn’t supposed to be an indictment (seriously, no one at Racialicious is my target — this is a fine blog with excellent people), but a personal reaction (and apparently a strong one, geez). Comments and calling me on my BS are *welcome* for anyone interested in doing so.

  23. Jadey wrote:

    Addendum: I just wanted to add, regarding comparing colonial histories between Canada and the US, that a comparison *could* be instructive, but I am certainly not the person to make it. I think that is something that only Native people living the lives and the histories in either of these places could really describe (and not necessarily agree upon). I just wanted to acknowledge that.

  24. Lxy wrote:

    That map of “colonial America” is funny in an ironic kind of way.

    You don’t need to look to Steampunk or some fantasy world to find Anglo-American colonialism in action.

    Reality will do just fine.

    Both the USA and Canada are European colonizer nations at base.

    Colonial subjugation of Native Indian (and also Mexican and Hawaiian lands in the case of the USA) are what define these two vaunted “democracies.”

    Although, maybe not for long.

    Freedom! Lakota Sioux Indians Declare Sovereign Nation Status
    http://www.commondreams.org/news2007/1220-02.htm

    It’s true that Canadian troops are serving in Afghanistan as part of the NATO security presence. However, Canada didn’t invade and impose regime change in countries like Iraq or Afghanistan.

    The so-called NATO security presence is a yet another Western colonial war against the Third World–one that has murdered thousands of Afghanis and increasingly Pakistanis, while maiming and refugee-ing countless more.

  25. al oof wrote:

    is an alternative america that is still under british control common in steampunk?

    i always thought of steampunk as being now, but with technologies based on steam. but i guess i’m mostly just thinking of the golden compass. i think in the golden compass actually, england didn’t have any colonies.

    anyway, i mostly wanted to comment on anglophilia (something i am intimately acquainted with). for some americans, anglophilia is based on cultural heredity. i’m thinking of my mom here, whose mom and dad were scottish and irish, respectively. because i know that some of why she watches so much british tv is cultural familiarity. you know, things she grew up eating, people eat on british tv shows. and there are tons of glaswegian actors on british shows, who talk just like her mother.

    but i think for those of us without that direct connection to british things, one of the things that is so appealing about british cultural offerings (for me it is mostly tv shows) is that it is exotic. but it’s also in the language we speak. i know for me personally, i’m endlessly fascinated in the differences between british culture and my own, and of course the similarities can be fascinating too. but then again, i’m fascinated by the cultural differences between brooklyn and queens. (i don’t mean the cultures of people who live in brooklyn and queens, i mean specifically brooklyn quirks vs. queens quirks, like in queens people line up for buses and in the rest of the city they don’t.)

    but i don’t think it’s far fetched to posit that the appeal of british culture for americans is in exoticism at least as much if not more so than familiarity. and while i do think there is a ‘british people are more polite/cultured/smart/whathaveyou’ aspect to anglophilia, i feel like most anglophiles i know do not believe that. maybe it’s my tv focus, but shows like benny hill and absolutely fabulous are not highbrow!

  26. daniel cunningham wrote:

    Older computer nerd here….

    I think this kind of misses the whole point and attraction of steampunk. It’s completely disconnected from any reality of what was going on in the broader era… it’s geek fiction for geeks, detailing a point in history (yes, western, anglo history) where technology and science surged forward and gave birth to the technology and ethos that we take granted today, worldwide. It is a glorification of the genesis of the world many nerds, myself included, swim in today. Race is irrelevant in this, race is… not even secondary, it’s simply not important That’s not even a correct statement: not part of the discussion… “it’s not even wrong,” to use one of my favorite quips.

    To restate what I said above, it is a new Genesis, capital, as fictional as it may be.

    To be frank, my day to day world is devoid of race, which is counter-emotional to much of the discussion here. We’re all too damn busy, to be a bit brutal.

    Even if this wide real world is based on the real history we all know and struggle over, in the idealized fantasy of steampunk –and the relation it has to the idealized world some of us try to live in today, with crazy Christians and séances people clinging to astrology beating in– you might as well be talking about, to rip off something I just saw blip across my TV, leaches and alchemy.

    It’s an idealized fictional world with heros resisting ignorance and glorifying progress, reflecting the very real battles still going one… just not the battle between the particular ignorance and progress you happen to be talking about. You’re trying to force onto it something it has no vocabulary for (at least not yet. Any writers here?)

  27. Luis wrote:

    :Some ideas of racial issues that would be fascinating to explore in a colonial, steampunk America: the role of the Chinese in constructing the American railroads; the early emancipation of black slaves in America when Britain abolished slavery in 1833, or even the transformation of the American South using steampunk technology to forgo the need for slavery at all; the relation between the British colonialists and the Native Americans over time.”

    This is an interesting question, and the fat of the Chinese and blacks in English colonies were actually intertwined. Both the UK and the US brought in Chinese labor in order to fill the gaps left open by freed blacks who were leaving plantations and regions en masse, but the British colonies were doing it decades earlier. There would probably be a much larger Chinese-American (speaking continentally) for that reason.

    The Chinese Exclusion act would have been a lot less likely. In the 19th century, Britain began to extend rights of parliament to its other colonies to avoid another 1776, which is why Canada developed exclusion acts against certain Asian populations (Indians in this case). Jamaica, however, did not exclude Chinese and has a fairly sizable population for its size and relative wealth. Without the ability to legislate against Chinese immigration, the AFL backed Chinese Exclusion Act may not have come to fruition, or may have been much more limited. It’s not in Britain’s best interest to keep good workers out, even if white workers think they’re lowering their wages (they weren’t, but thats a different discussion).

    So there’s one possibility. On the side of black British colonial subjects, some interesting things might have happened. While there were lots of interactions between black Americans, Canadians, and Antilleans historically, removing the historical barrier of American separation would theoretically make a more cohesive community. It would be interesting to see what forms a united Afro-British community fighting for civil rights (yeah, emancipation is not the same thing as civil rights in the British colonies either). What cultural and religious organizations would arise? Shoot, what would it have done to black music, and, by extension, world music?

    This paragraph deserves an entire alternate history novel.

  28. Luis wrote:

    How could Canada invade anyone? It’s smaller than the population of California and spread out from coast to coast. It’s economy relies on its symbiotic relationship to the United States. Just because it doesn’t pull the trigger, doesn’t mean it’s not also holding the gun. When the U.S. gets its hands dirty, so does Canada.

    If you don’t like the way the U.S. has been run recently (I sure don’t), please by all means join the Union (you’re, economically and militarily, half way there) and vote intelligently. I would appreciate that.

  29. Jen wrote:

    Or you could have kept importing convicts and used them for slave labour rather than people from Africa, before getting around to listing the native residents as “fauna” for a period, then deciding they were human, but a dying race that needed to be protected, which means shipping the paler kids off to Mission “homes”, like we did in Australia…

    Anyway! Which Country Was Worse To Its Indigenous Inhabitants is a game that doesn’t really have a winner, but sure has a bunch of losers.

    On topic:
    Loved His Dark Materials, but my question relates to Pullman’s Sally Lockhart books. I’ve only seen the tv miniseries, but what struck me was that it definitely seemed to be presenting a multicultural steampunk alternate Victorian England. I can’t recall specifics, but there were definitely POCs in key positions that their real-world counterparts certainly wouldn’t have held. I don’t know a huge amount about Steampunk (other than I love the aesthetic) but is this sort of thing common? I remember it being really striking in the show (FYI – the first tv movie is better than the second) (But they’re both pretty fun).

  30. m. wrote:

    Actually, us Indians would be better off with *nobody* living off our backs, but that should be obvious. It’s not a question of which Europeans would have cut off fewer of our limbs, but good to see it simplified to that.

    And I’m sorry, but what is this rah rah Canada crap? Tell that to an Aboriginal Canadian. Hell, ask any Indigenous person who’s so much as BEEN to Canada, and I’m sure they’ll have some pretty painful stories to tell you about their trip. Try being a Canadian of color who isn’t a Francophone in Quebec and getting racial slurs thrown at you in French because you didn’t order your food in ‘the language of the peasants’ (who are really just oppressors with a non-Anglo tongue), a.k.a. the language of those who screwed over Indians in order to achieve the dream of their OWN “sovereign nation”. (Oh, the irony kills me!) Try not having access to that “superior” (not) “non-privatized” (not) healthcare when you’re incredibly sick, or winding up in a hospital only to sit in the emergency room reeling in pain for the next 10 hours. But hey, if you’re able-bodied or white, that’s a godsend. At least in the US most broke people know they’ll just be struggling for a year after they pay for their medication rather than *waiting* for a year just to see a doctor for 10 minutes. Oh wait, but in Canada, it’s “for free”….
    It is just as big a colonial monster as the US, and I think it’s laughable that so many people buy into the happy multicultural myth that is the Great White North. It’s almost ridiculous that people could ever suggest, with a straight face, that life for an Indigenous person (or any other person of color, for that matter…or an immigrant, or a differently abled person, or someone who doesn’t get union benefits…) is a lot breezier in Canada than in the US. The “progressive” wet dream that is Canada is actually a nightmare, and it’s supposedly *amazing* social policies don’t mean a damn thing if you’re not white or well-off. And, most especially, if you’re Indigenous. End of story.

    (Wait, does this sound just like the U.S.? That’s because IT IS.)

    The positive things people hear about Canada are myths, and usually coming from the mouths of the privileged. It is laughable at best, old and needs to be laid to rest. The idealization of Canada by non-Indigenous peoples is sick, and quite frankly, offensive to me and many others as all hell – just like Canadians’ love affair with the British monarchy. As a person Indigenous to territory within the boundaries of the U.S., I sure as hell don’t feel as if I’m any better off than my Canadian Indigenous brethren…but I also know they sure as hell aren’t any better off than me. Hah, although, at least here in the US some white people realize they are (or at least, that it is “in their capacity” to be) racist! (Unlike the majority of white Canadians who are perfect, and will not hesitate to tell you so, and if you can’t make it in their well-thought-out system…um, tough luck.)

    Oh, and by the way, California “belonging” to Mexico isn’t “sweet”, at least any moreso than it not: that was the work of the Spanish. Same evil, different soldiers. On the real, though, it almost makes me sad to see some of these comments here. ALMOST. History, people.

  31. m. wrote:

    I just realized I talked in circles a few times up there, and I apologize for taking up space with that – sorry!

  32. Danny wrote:

    Wow…I didn’t know the smallpox blanket things was largely a myth, although if I did a little info digging it should have brought me to that case.
    Thanks Rob Schmidt.

    I don’t know which group would have been better off under, these are very big historical what ifs. Most of the time I like playing around with this idea of alternative history, but in this situation where the US basically doesn’t exist, there would be far too many things gone different than what’s suggested on this thread so far. It could have been worst though or maybe not too relatively bad….really depends.

    How history would have folded in this idea would also heavily depend on what happens on the other side of the world. Or the Old world as some might call it, which is not just Europe.

  33. Danny wrote:

    Actually, I wouldn’t mind letting my imagination plus knowledge get carried away with this interesting topic…I only hesitate a bit because many readers on this site take a lot of things here very seriously. Which is good in some cases or awkward in other subjects.

  34. Louise wrote:

    slaves were freed from the apprenticeship in 1837 not 1840 in the british west indies, colonialism is still a great evil doesn’t matter where America is now, or how Americans percieve themselves, to free themselves from the yoke of colonialism is a wonderful thing. True American’s have done some terrible things, genocide, perpetuating slavery and thus making it’s ideals of freedoms for all men null and void. But still as a Black English woman, you cannot long for something that doesn’t exist.

  35. Jha wrote:

    daniel cunningham @ 26: No, really? You’re “too busy” to notice the isolation and alienation felt by your fellow humans? You don’t notice race? … Can you not see how problematic what you just said is?

    I’ve said this in my own thread, and I’ll say it again, there is no “point” to steampunk. There is no single “main attraction” of steampunk. Steampunk, like many other things, represents different things to different people. I personally idealize a world where the heroes fight racism, stereotypes, oppression, and embrace a vision of progress in which everyone has a place and no one is left behind. Where we re-visit the past to see where we’ve fucked up, so we don’t do it again in the future.

    This is not so much an attack on you as it is on your viewpoint on race, which is common and the main barrier to progress, because it dismisses very valid concerns as “irrelevant” and “unimportant”.

    Danny @ 33: We take things like blatant racism and disrespect seriously. If your imagination is going to run amok and erase us further from the world map, then yeah, of course we’re not going to like it!

  36. Ay-Leen wrote:

    First of all, I just wanted to clarify to everyone that the map above is NOT the DEFINITE have have-all, be-all steampunk North American world, but only an interesting alternative reality that Steam Century created. I did not have anything to do with the creation of this map, and even THEY say on their website that this map has no “steampunk authority” other than for the use of their game play. This intrigues me, because their own steampunk perspective is also rooted in alternative histories, and in that history, they acknowledge the impact of the Native peoples, represent them in a diverse way and empower them, which I find refreshing.

    @Jadey — In addition to my comments above, I wanted to affirm that I’m NOT pro-colonialist in any sense of the word, and I’m sorry if that is what you thought I implied. As a person of color whose family fled their country because of a civil war that stemmed from the aftermath of colonialism (Vietnam), I *know* what the effects of white oppression are and how they linger on to this day. I wrote the piece to acknowledge that even in fantasy, if it is historical-based, you cannot shake the effects of the past, unless you want to self-delude yourself.

    @ daniel cummingham (#26) — I suppose this is a point where we agree to politely disagree. As I said above in my response to Jadey, as person of color, whose parents’ generation grew up in the *real* colonies and who still feels the cultural effects of colonialism today, I can’t approach the steampunk asethetic with the 100% utopian, anything-can-happen-smiles-and-rainbows potential that you do. While I do appreciate the overall sense of optimism that a lot of steampunks have (unlike the cyberpunk genre from which steampunk originates), if steampunk represents itself by using the aethetics taken from the Victorian Era, as a person of color, it still codes to me as being part of the “Age of Empire” and all of the associations it implies. Instead of staying away from the steampunk movement altogether as being a “white man’s fantasy,” I want to explore the ways where my past and identity can be recognized and still share that potential for optimism and exploration with other steampunks. Make sense?

    @Jen (#29) I loved The His Dark Materials trilogy as well and appreciated the POCs (and gay angels!). I’d actually identify the series as a gaslamp fantasy rather than steampunk, but that’s quibbling over the details ^-^

  37. Abu Sinan wrote:

    @Evan,

    I am working under my personal experience of Canadians serving with the British Armed forces. There is a reason why the British Army has overseas recruiters. I worked with several Canadian citizens when I was in England in their capacity with the British Army and the MoD. There are residency issues and the like, but Canadians most certainly serve in the British Army. Not in the tens of thousands like the used to, but they sure do.

    I believe the requirement is something like Commonwealth citizens can join the British Army if they have a certain length of residency in the UK. I have heard that this requirement is regularly waved. The one guy I worked with from Toronto said he showed up in London, visited a recruiter’s office and went through barb test and he was off on his way.

    As to monarchies, you might be inclined to have your head of state decided by an accident of birth, but I prefer to choose mine.

    In regards to the small pox/blanket issue, no matter which side you fall on in this debate, it would be hard to argue that British and American attitudes towards the American Indian was anything less than semi organised genocide. So why argue the blanket issue if the net result is the same?

  38. Jadey wrote:

    Hi, Ay-Leen,

    I understand both that this map is simply one vision of an alternate history among many, and also that you yourself are not advocating colonialism — I definitely did not pick that up from your post. That being said, I am interested in looking at steampunk’s intersection with colonialism and colonial narratives with a critical eye because I think that these concepts do run deep into the roots of steampunk. To leave them unexamined is to leave real history uncriticized.

    That map is one example of this — even if it seems to be better in some ways than what we ended up with (more than one person has commented on various aspects of its awesomeness), it still seems to maintain a great deal of what really happened wrt the colonization and/or removal of indigenous people, even if the colonizers themselves are different. This is why I find the “empty continent” trope so frustrating in F/SF narratives, because it’s false. There hasn’t been a real “empty country” in human history (at least not one that’s even remotely habitable without major technological intervention) in a very, very, very, very long time. And every time this trope gets used, it reinforces one of the most poisonous strategies used to attack indigenous societies and justify what happened to them — that they weren’t really here, or weren’t anything more than wild fauna, and therefore the land was open for any takers. Hell, in Canada one of the justifications for removing Native people was if they didn’t “husband” the land the way the colonizers wanted to (i.e., deforesting and farming every square inch of it).

    I do see room for subversion in steampunk. Really, for all I know in the world that this map comes from (again, just using this as one example), colonialism is a big deal and there’s a huge effort being undertaken to return land to the societies who were there first, or something. What makes me uncomfortable with steampunk is when colonialism is just part of the artistic motif, unexamined and uncriticized. Then it’s just a little too life-like for my tastes.

    (also, in case anyone skimmed past it, check out m. @30)

  39. Luis wrote:

    The cool think about that map isn’t the “Oh, look things are better this way” factor. It’s rearranging the map and thinking about how many of the social movements critical to American history would have played out differently. It’s thinking things like “What would the war between Mexico and Russia over gold do to the indigenous, and mestizo, populations?”

    “Would the Russian north have a population of black slaves/workers/immigrants and what would their relationship to Russian culture be considering some major Russian figures, like the literary giant Pushkin, were mulatto?”

    “Would slavery have ended in the Spanish colonies without the decay of the Spanish empire and the promises made to blacks during revolutionary movements (it lingered until 1888 in Cuba and Puerto Rico)?”

    “If the American South, basically an agricultural dependent of the UK and then the North, became independent, what role would slavery play and would it potentially look like similar dependent states in Latin America?”

    “If Mexico became reliably independent without the shadow of the U.S., what forces would have limited the imperial nature of the early Mexican state?”

    “How would an independent, land-locked Native American nation be treated by surrounding countries and the world in the height of ‘imperial chic?’”

    It goes one and on. There are like a million untold and forgotten narratives of people of color lost because certain countries changed hands and they suddenly didn’t fit into pre-established narratives. Many of them would suddenly come sharply into focus if the details of history were changed. Want to have a really interesting “rebellion” fantasy? Start at any of these points and run with it. Things get so much more interesting when you actually understand the role of POCs in American history, instead of systematically excluding them in favor of phony Grand Narratives.

  40. chicagorose wrote:

    @m. It didn’t read like you were talking in circles. It read like you were speaking to truth. Thank you for putting it there to see.

  41. Danny wrote:

    OK…here’s how I would see this, regarding Race relations in this alternative situation.
    I think things wouldn’t have been that different in terms of the level of conflict between the demographic groups, whether under the British Crown or other powers.

    At least for me, it’s really hard to imagine how the social movements progress or even get started under such different circumstances as others have mentioned. It’s possible our modern definitions for many demographic groups could be different.

    My speculation is that there probably would have been more violence in this alternative North America. Not just between the competiting States trying to expand their realm but most likely there would have been a lot of rebellions as well. There’s also a big possibility of conflicts with devastating result between the different Native groups, since the need to organize and change their lifestyles to face the challenges surrounding them. With such possible tensions, what happens in the colonies is going to affect the lives and attitudes of the colonial powers in their homelands. Not just that but it most likely would affect communities, both colonized or not, around the world.

    To clarify my statements before, what m. said is pretty much an example of why I’m hesitant to make comments. In one way or another, it’s going to offend someone despite whatever intent is was, and just because I’m not of an indegenous heritage, whatever I say regarding this topic or anything related to it, will probably be less receptive. I’m not even of the same heritage as the European colonizers so my comments might get more downplayed.

    I like to learn about these topics but also have opinions of my own which of course is subject to change. I can empathize those uneasy feelings whenever people not of the same demographic group as mine talk in great detail about my heritage. Depending on what context or situation for such talks, I can listen, let it go or possibly attempt to talk back to balance such views.

  42. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “There hasn’t been a real “empty country” in human history (at least not one that’s even remotely habitable without major technological intervention) in a very, very, very, very long time.”
    In terms of large landmasses you’re right, but a good number of islands were only colonized by humans within historical times (some of them less than 1000 years ago)…

  43. Katie wrote:

    @m. – word!

  44. Baiskeli wrote:

    O.K coming out of lurking mode to refute this ‘benevolent British’ idea.

    For those saying that the British would have been benevolent lets just say I highly doubt so. As a citizen of a former colonial country (Kenya) I’d urge you to read Caroline Elkins excellent “Imperial Reckoning: The Untold Story of Britain’s Gulag in Kenya” or Koigi Wa Mwere’s “I refuse to die”. You will see what I’m talking about.

    Torture, murder, forced into concentration camps etc). My grandparents and parents have told me enough stories about this. And using the treatment of the Indians by the Brits as indicative of their less virulent actions does not take into account that their worst treatment was reserved for those who were black. Back then, they definitely had a racial hierarchy, whites at the top, indians in the middle, blacks at the bottom. And they used this hierarchy in Kenya

    The only reason the British did not do to Africa what the Americans did to the native americans was that there were too many of us and that and the fact they weren’t immigrants, some were, but their main purpose was to extract as much wealth as possible in the shortest amount of time.

    Anyway, Steampunk looks interesting, and I love the alternative history aspect of it. On another note, Orson Scott Card (brilliant writer, very far right kooky when it comes to his personal politics) wrote a book called “Pastwatch: The redemption of Christoper Columbus” that is a great read. I disagree with certain things in the book that were basically him injecting his hard core Christian religion into it, but as far as the story goes, it’s phenomenal.

  45. m. wrote:

    @Danny:
    Hey. What I said is truth, yes, but I hope you don’t feel like your input isn’t valuable because of my comment…or, uh, my tone. I don’t know anything about you, you only mentioned you are “not of the same heritage as the European colonizers”, but it’s always interesting to hear other peoples’ comments about what life would have been like *for them and theirs*. Because I do think that’s interesting and important (and I’m sorry if I came off like it’s not), I just *don’t* feel that it’s useful or appropriate to speculate over what would’ve “been better” for those of us who are Indigenous. It offends me, there is no such thing as a “lesser of two (or three, or four, or twenty) evils” when it comes to colonization, imperialism, genocide, forced relocation, abduction, slavery, racism. I’m sure I’d have some laughs making fun of the mounted police up in Canada (another mainstay thanks to their adoration of the aforementioned British fuckin’ monarchy – oops, harshness) like I did when I was up there before, but I also wouldn’t have too much fun getting treated like a domestic terrorist for being a Native activist. Oh wait, that’s just like the US. See what I mean? That’s what it’s like for Indians, I don’t know what’d it be like for everyone else. Because I’m not everyone else. I think you get my point; for me, this is about my own people.

    HOWEVER. I can’t even begin to broach the topic of slavery, something that has been mentioned several times in these comments. But I do want to add that this made me upset, too, I jut don’t have anything useful to say. I mean, other than the obvious: fewer people would have suffered/died, of course, and that’s a lot better than more. But, as if abolishing slavery at an earlier date would have altered history from then up until now so much, that the Black/African American community would suffer fewer inequities? Yeah, no. And I bet fewer Black people would suffer from intergenerational trauma, huh? Because that’d, like, give them a head-start on that healing process. (Not that they wouldn’t be dealing with anything else along the way to the 21st century…) Yeah, no.
    I don’t differentiate between Spanish conquistadors, the British crown, French explorers or (white) American soldiers. To put it lightly: they all had a hand in this shit.

    I also want to add that I do think that what steampunks of color are doing is interesting. (I am coming at this from an angle of a punk ex-pat.) Many aspects of these sub-and-counter-cultures are very healthy for people of color to either reclaim (punk, which was NEVER a “white thing”) and immerse themselves in (steampunk, something I don’t know enough about to comment on too specifically, but always found fascinating). It was useful when I was younger, punk and d.i.y. ethics were what utilized to confront my own oppressions. It was also a form of escapism for me, during times when I needed it the most: battling racism, depression, homophobia, displacement, sexism and dispossession. I’m sure it is the same with steampunk, for steampunks of color. It is definitely not something I’d ever have the energy, the patience, the resources or even the state of mind to immerse myself in (steampunk) or re-visit (any counter-culture), but I admire those who can and do. (Not to mention, I am a fan of science fiction, fantasy and aviator goggles. Hah.) I appreciate other ideas of an alternate history, but people need to be mindful of *where* these unworn paths would have lead and also not integrate Anglophilia into certain spaces.

    [/long ass comment]

  46. Abu Sinan wrote:

    @Baiskeli,

    Great points. I guess people forget the history of the Brits in South Africa, the home of the first concentration camps where they locked up white Afrikaners.

    If they’d locked up white women and children and let tens of thousands of them die why would anyone think they’d spare brown American Indians from a similar or worse fate?

    It makes no sense.

  47. Jay wrote:

    @Abu Sinan,

    Canadians serving in the British military are rare. We have our own Armed Forces; individual Canadians may choose to immigrate and serve in other countries’ forces as they wish (the French Foreign Legion is another example.) Please do not confuse Canada’s ties to the same head of state as the UK with continuing political or military colonization. That is inaccurate – and offensive.

    @Jadey

    I share some of your frustrations with this map. I look at it and see both unexamined colonialism deployed as a playful thing (inappropriate IMO) and then the entire geography of Canada (although with the same political boundaries) divided, without the building of Canada and the reason for those political boundaries acknowledged at all. So I guess I am torn between two competing frustrations with the map, one, that the problematic parts of the building of Canada are not acknowledged, and two, the erasure of Canada and Canadian history as a distinct entity. It’s definitely a lazy map.

  48. Danny wrote:

    Hi m.

    Well, I did used you as an example of some of my frustrations so I apologize for that one. It’s not your tone. I appreciate people who tell things as they really are and not sugarcoat it. Sometimes those people who try to push off truth as being PC need a dosage of their own medicine.

    I used to be in such conversations in forums and small group discussions back in college regarding global topics. I had some experiences where my opinion was a bit push off or set aside even though it was quite detail and credible. I couldn’t think of much other than the reasons of “I wasn’t there, what do I know, I’m not of their group” etc. Some topics I participated in was the China/Tibet issue, Israel/Palestine issue and others. Actually someone did told me that since I wasn’t at a particular event, how could my comment be valid…(I’m pretty sure it wasn’t controversial or anything like that). Then there were the obvious things I picked up where some of these vocal people had a main target audience to begin with.

    Actually, I try to reflect back more deeply and take social issues more carefully. Instead of swaying towards one view, take time to see through several angles, etc.

  49. Jadey wrote:

    @ Jay

    Actually, your comment drives me to want to clarify my initial remark, which was more emotion than content. My frustration with the map isn’t about the reduction of Canada or Canadian identity as in your second point (which is not to contradict your feelings on your own point!–it’s just that you made me aware of another possible interpretation of my own statement), but more your first point and the indirect reinforcement of the colonization of North America and the indigenous societies that predate Canada, Mexico, and the US.

    As a white Canadian who is vehemently opposed to any form of colonialism, I am pretty conflicted about my national identity and cultural heritage. Part of me would not be sad for history to be rewritten without Canada in it (though not with another oppressive colonizer written in on top, of course), but I think that is again a response more emotion than content-driven–certainly it’s not a well-formulated thought. I’m maybe at an overly-critical stage, but I’m not happy with where my country came from, nor am I confident about where it’s going.

    This post and this comment thread have been excellent. The effects of colonialism are incredibly broad and complex, as well as sad.

  50. Lxy wrote:

    One interesting sideline to all of this debate about “alternative histories” of North America is that it may presage the future in some way.

    A few years ago, a University of New Mexico Chicano Studies professor named Charles Truxillo suggested that a “Republica del Norte” could emerge in the not-so-distant future.

    This Republic would take California and most of the US Southwest (which some call AZTLAN) and combine with it parts of Northern Mexico to form a new nation.

    As Truxillo put it, “there is a growing fusion, a reviving of connections…. Southwest Chicanos and Norteño Mexicanos are becoming one people again.”

  51. Ay-Leen wrote:

    @ Jadey (#38) I’m glad that I didn’t upset you! ^-^ I defintiely agree with your affirmation about the importance of looking at steampunk with a critical eye; imho, art is a reflection of current society and participant’s conscious (or subconscious) desires, and why steampunk is suddenly become more popular in the past few years is a very interesting question to ask, not only because of the historical implications, but how people’s ideas about what steampunk is resonates with current thinking about races, class, gender roles, etc.

    @ m. (#30) Thank you SO much for your contributions to this discussion. Over on my blog, I was having a discussion with a fellow Canadian about this essay who believed in the “safe haven” idea behind Canada’s treatment of aboriginals and minorities, and, as someone from the US with little to no personal/academic experience on the matter, I had little to refute with. Your perspective is the punch to the gut we need to hear. And (#45) — also wanted to thank you for supporting steampunks of color too! ^_^

    @ Baiskeli (#44) Thank you for coming out of the woodwork and sharing your personal family experiences about British colonialism. I’ve also read Pastwatch too, btw, and loved the ideas behind it, but at had thought at the time it sounded too “ideal to come true.” XD

  52. Michael RedTurtle wrote:

    First, I want to thank the creator’s of this, it expands the possibilities of steampunk thought.

    I apologize that this is the topic of my first post, but I feel a need to dispel what I think is a misconception about the potential state of this land if not for a Revolution.

    Evan, you said: “This is a debatable point, but I think if we were still under British rule, the genocidal toll against Native Americans would have been less severe. I really think the Crown would placed greater protections against the theft of lands and forced relocation.”

    I respectfully disagree. The British had been hauling slaves across the pond since very early on. And in 1637, in Ct, English and Dutch mercenaries crept into a Pequot village and slaughtered the entire tribe (700 people…down to the last man, woman and child). The reason?…a nearby village of settlers found children missing and blamed the Pequot “savages” (without any facts) and hired mercenaries to slaughter them. The same mercenaries brought back the harvest that the Pequot were giving thanks for during the Green Corn Ceremony they were in the midst of when they were murdered.

    The savagery and murdering started here, only got worse…they went from village to village committing similar atrocities: bounties were paid per Indian scalp, men/women/children were beheaded, the chief of another Pequot tribe was beheaded and his head mounted on a pole in Plymouth Mass (where it remained for 24 years!)

    The governor of the Massachusettes Bay Colony declared it a ‘Day of Thanks Giving’…that God allowed them to rid their colony of such savage people that would steal their children. In 1863, Lincoln decided to set a Thanksgiving celebration to be held on the same day every year (a day not celebrated by most Native Americans I might add).

    All of this information comes letters and journals from everyone from mercenaries to townsfolk, to the governor…where they praise God for all of this, and seem to almost brag about it in some cases.

    The European factions acquired scouts and allies among the various tribes. True, some of the tribes fought each other (but did not make a habit of outright killing each other…some tribes had lacrosse to determine answers instead of fighting, some had ball games, plains tribes had a tradition of a coup stick.

    But, the various European factions set them against one another. This (in my opinion) set the stage for the US Army to have an easier time of their genocidal attempt.

  53. Sanguinity wrote:

    I have so many questions about the history of that map, questions that aren’t answered in that timeline.

    Even though the point has already been made that American slavery under British rule likely wouldn’t have been much better/different than under U.S. rule, the presence of the Republic of Texas is a HUGE telltale that the history of slavery didn’t play out all that differently in the Gulf region: after all, the Texan revolt against Mexico was founded in the desire of white U.S. immigrants — most of whom would have been “illegals” in today’s parlance — to protect slavery and white supremacy from the laws that Mexico had been attempting to enforce in Tejas.

    Why that history is preserved in this timeline, when most of the U.S. gulf states are apparently controlled by the Five Nations (where did those white Texans immigrate from?), is beyond me.

    But then, it’s also beyond me why the the borders of this-timeline’s western U.S. states are political borders in Steampunk Century’s timeline, so…

  54. Michael RedTurtle wrote:

    Also, just curious (I suppose this might better be put to the think-tank behind the map): why is the area around the plains tribes called a woodlands indian area (I read that some time ago on the steampunk century website)? The Woodlands tribes are *east* of the Mississippi…they are noted for the main distinction of being farmers, while the plains tribes (*west* of the Miss) are noted for being nomadic hunters.

  55. Ay-Leen wrote:

    Hi Sanguinity,

    I recently had an e-mail conversation with Kerry, the historian behind Steam Century. Our exchange has been posted on my journal here: http://dmp.dreamwidth.org/2035.html

    She also addresses the political boundaries question there as well from a gaming perspective, “The modern political boundaries are on the because we form chapters for our interactive events. For instance, the Steam Century Twin Cities group will be forming soon.”

    You’re free to contact the group if you’re curious about getting more information, though. They can be reached via their website here: http://www.hmabadger.com/index.php?page=contact

    Hope that helps!

  56. daniel cunningham wrote:

    Hi all–

    I wrote a post last night that I am not too proud of. Luckily, I think, it got modded out. I’ve had a couple hours of sleep since then (I just came back from Korea and then went out to a concert… not a good decision for either lucid thought or getting to work on time.)

    I understand the disagreements with what I say: Arguing that a novel or class of novels doesn’t have to take into account all the history that the novel is set in is a bit of an argument. I think I can stand by it, but that’s for another post

    Let me respond first to the response that set me off so vehemently and… well, wrathfully.

    @jha: No, I did not say I don’t recognize the issue of race in our world. What I said is that it is not a part of my daily life. I responded so angrily because I have had your argument –in different forms– forced on me too many times. And here is my problem with that: No, I simply and emphatically reject the idea that because I don’t accept race and I am lucky enough to generally associate with people that reject race that I or those people have somehow ‘failed’.

    Because in my worldview, we’re the ones that have succeeded. No through effort or some kind of careful navigation, but because it simply doesn’t matter. It has no resonance, no value, no place. No meaning.

    I don’t need confirmation or agreement on that, but having it repeatedly rebuffed… it grinds. I’m also an atheist, and I think that might be a way of explaining this in an alternative way. Being an atheist, I am often exhausted and discouraged by the deep and pervasive way that so many people simply reject my lack of belief and allow only a discussion about God.

    I reject race and I struggle to converse in a framework that is defined by race, and that includes discussions like this.

    Furthermore, I reject the form of the argument as well. I’m not a cancer researcher either, it doesn’t mean I like cancer, don’t care about cancer, or am immune to the suffering cancer causes.

    Its just that –on a daily basis– it’s not a part of my life. And I don’t think that is a bad thing, I don’t think that minimizes cancer, and I certainly don’t think it stands in the way to combating cancer. Now, I know the analogy breaks down after that… cancer is not a social phenomenon. But does that give you some better idea of where I am coming from?

    Having said that, it really goes much further than all that. I believe that racism and all it’s little cousins won’t be ’solved’ until more people think and act like I do. Because it’s not cancer. It can’t be ‘fought’ to death. It has to be starved to death, and to the extent that each and every one of us starves it by interacting with each other as friends and coworkers and lovers and bastards and… people!… it dies. And I think that is the well my anger comes from. I think I really am a part of the solution, and people like you –who I think honestly care very deeply about this– are allowing yourselves to be part of the problem because you reject those of us who simply say “No” and continue on our way.

    Mod Note – Daniel, in case you missed the sign on the door, this space was designed for intelligent discussions about race. If you “reject” race, so be it, but that simply means that this is not the space for you. Further comments in this vein will be deleted. – LDP

  57. Steampunk Scholar wrote:

    I’ve been watching this lively debate, interested in the engine behind it, as well as the products that engine produced. To be less obtuse, I’m saying kudos to all for demonstrating how steampunk, or any counterfactual fiction, asks the question “what if?” and then seeks to answer it. All of you are seeking to answer the racial “what if?” questions, and the ruminations are good ones. Imagine someone who has never struggled through any of these issues, but just digs their brass goggles. Collectively, you have taken us all down the road to better understanding about nationality, ethnicity, and how we are (or sometimes are not) defined by these parameters. While there have been some heated moments here, I look at the openness to discussion and have to smile. It’s very encouraging. I stated last year at the Steam Powered Con in California that steampunk needed to do more than mod computers. Discussions like these look to me like steps in the right direction. Kudos all. Keep up the conversation.

  58. Steampunk Scholar wrote:

    A quote to accompany my first message, from an article I’m working on – sorry for the pedantic tone, but it says perfectly what I’m getting at in that last post:

    When linked to Karen Hellekson’s observation that “alternate history as a genre speculates about such topics as the nature of time and linearity…and the role of individuals in the history-making process” (254), this idea demonstrates that despite its sweeping historical scope and global or national concerns, alternate history is ultimately also about the individual people involved, individuals like Prince Dakkar (Captain Nemo). There may be a sense of hopelessness if a dystopic view of one’s society is intensified by a fatalistic assumption of the “end” of the larger story of history being fixed, or the product of massive, societal forces impervious to individual agency.

    By contrast, alternate history provides insight to a mindset where “horizons are infinite and nothing is fixed in stone…In other words, a world larger and better suited to the classic adventure story than ours” (Stirling 151). Alternate histories such as Nemo’s provide a social-psychological foundation which underscores the importance of the individual in history, wherein the objective truth value of counterfactual propositions are largely ignored, “in favor of examining their perceived plausibility and meaningfulness to the individual” (Roese & Olson 6).

    Hellekson highlights how readers of alternate histories “come away with their own lives sharpened and enriched by the realization that history is something possible for an individual to shape” (255) The retrotopic alternate history, like the secret language of Nemo, changes the perspective of the reader:

    “The psychological effects of reading the alternate history are important; it could have happened otherwise, save for a personal choice. The personal thus becomes the universal, and individuals find themselves making a difference in the context of historical movement.” (255)

  59. Jha wrote:

    daniel cunningham @ 56: I never said you “failed” (although you certainly are implying that about myself). I said your viewpoint – that on a personal level race does not matter, and it necessarily can apply to a larger pattern – is problematic. Race does not affect me on a day-to-day basis either. It doesn’t mean I ignore it, or call it irrelevant, since it’s obviously very relevant as real people are being hurt due to larger patterns affected by the idea of race.

    Now, I do understand your problem on some level – you’re trying to de-center the discussion on race (which is different from de-railing) by trying to move away from talking about race when dealing with racial issues. (I try to do the same, but differently, and not on this space.) However, none of us have the language necessary to move away from this conversation yet. This is why we engage with concepts of race.

    But to say “if everyone thought like I did, it would be easier!” is disingenuous at best. Because I, for one, DO act and think in ways in which race don’t matter. It doesn’t mean I refuse to see how race affects larger pattners – being able to see how race affects institutions (and vice versa) actually makes it easier to ensure my actions and thoughts towards making race “not matter” are working. As stated in many spaces, we bring our baggage wherever we go, be it sexist, racist, classist, or any other -ism. Being aware of them on a high level means being able to ensure our actions don’t fall into these categories on a personal level.