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1. Beyond The Twins: Another look at Revenge Of The Fallen’s Character Flaws at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 30 Jun 2009 at 9:31 am

   [...] argument is, of course, sophistry. Bullsh-t, if you prefer. As was discussed over the weekend, Revenge Of The Fallen brought out the worst in Bay and writers Ehren Kruger, Alex [...]

Comments

1. atlasien wrote:

   I think the hilarious Editing Room Abridged Script of the first Transformers movie says it best:

   “…because MICHAEL BAY doesn’t know the difference between COMEDY and RACISM. ”

   It’s a shame because the original cartoon had great appeal for kids of all races. In fact I recently read an argument that went a long way to explain why I liked Transformers (and Thundercats) so much when I was a kid. The stars weren’t white, unlike almost every other children’s media at the time… they were anthropomorphic, not heavily racialized, and anyone could project on to them. And that gave children of color a special reason to like the shows.

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 10:56 am ¶

2. Jehanzeb wrote:

   My brother saw the movie last night and told me about these two robot characters. It gave me another reason why I don’t want to see the movie.

   Michael Bay just wants to make money, and he thinks having robots with stereotypical voices and attitudes is going to simply make the movie “funny.” This bothers me a lot because this film is targeted towards high school kids.

   I have no respect for these “filmmakers.”

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 11:16 am ¶

3. Antonio wrote:

   I can’t believe anyone could write two such blatantly offensive characters in this day and age. I’ve never seen the big deal with Jar Jar, but the blatant stereotyping behind this two guys is beyond the pale. I saw a link a few days ago that said Transformers 2 reviews have been so vicious Michael Bay is considering giving up action movies altogether. We can only hope.

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 11:39 am ¶

4. Maya wrote:

   You can really see hegemony at work here. Just because you didn’t mean them to be racist doesn’t mean that they’re not. It simply means that you have no idea how POC think .

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 11:49 am ¶

5. Mammith wrote:

   Micheal Bays response is part of a disturbing trend I’ve seen from Hollywood recently in which any race-based criticism is lumped in with generic criticisms (like a scene being too long or a stylistic choice).

   (Sorry I don’t know how to do block quotes)

   ‘Bay brushes off any whiff of controversy.

   “Listen, you’re going to have your naysayers on anything,” he said. “It’s like is everything going to be melba toast? It takes all forms and shapes and sizes.”

   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/transformers-jivetalking-_n_220005.html

   It all reminds me of the response to the Aryan-isation of Avatar; the network said something along the lines of ‘fans complain about every little change you make’

   Ugh.

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 12:10 pm ¶

6. Ed wrote:

   I’m just ignoring this so-called “film” – ugh indeed.

   [OTOH, I'm eagerly anticipating the US release of Park Chan-wook's new vampire flick "Thirst". Can't wait to see a review of it here.]

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 1:51 pm ¶

7. Ejunco wrote:

   Yea those two robots were funny for about a second then it got repetitive, then I noticed what they were trying to make these two look like. But from what I heard and read one of the Voice actors was African American and he was surprised of people’s reaction.

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 1:58 pm ¶

8. lecanardzero wrote:

   I have yet to see the second movie, which from what I hear is appalling. The first film was just as bad, as the only Autobot to die was the Black Autobot. Not only did he die, but when he used the “radio” to speak, it was tuned to hip hop stations and he had to do some breakdancing to confirm his race.

   Honestly, it was hard to take the movie seriously after that.

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 2:38 pm ¶

9. Max wrote:

   to Lecanardzero:

   You’re thinking of two different robots. The “black autobot” who died never spoke through the radio. The one with the damaged voicebox and spoke through the radio was bumblebee (the yellow car), and his race was indeterminate.

   Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 2:54 pm ¶

10. Evan wrote:

    The black autobot (Jazz) was the one who introduced himself with the phrase “What’s crackin’ little bitches” then did a breakdancing move. God that pissed me off.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶

11. Martina wrote:

    Like lecanardzero pointed out and Max clarified, the first movie had racial issues too. Transformers has tons of issues as it is (aside from screwing up the series), but the racial (and fairly gender based) ones are simply ridiculous sometimes.

    I don’t understand why they would want to go in the direction of anymore wannabe gangster/hip-hop type characters, and why they continue to make them stand out so much. They either die or they’re comic relief.

    I look forward to what’s said about it.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 4:50 pm ¶

12. Whitney wrote:

    I will admit, I first heard about the robot twins before i saw the movie, and i thought that people were perhaps overreacting and that it couldn’t be that bad.

    Then I saw the movie, and I thought that the twins’ dialogue and appearance were just stupid. Stupid because it wasn’t funny, and stupid because it did sound racist and also stupid because it made the movie just that much more bad.

    And overall, the movie was such a disappointment. Shitty, shitty editing, poor character development, it was sexist, racist, and too long. Transformers aren’t supposed to be racialized in any way, and are just supposed to sound, well, like ROBOTS. Oh, and don’t forget about all of the stupid sex jokes, like the humping, and the large balls dangling from the Devastator. I was like really? Balls on a transformer?

    Michael Bay should just stop making movies.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 4:52 pm ¶

13. merq wrote:

    Racist?? How can it be racist? They’re fucking ROBOTS!!!

    (sorry, figured I’d say that now to prepare you for the inevitable incredulous reactions)

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:15 pm ¶

14. DivergentDana wrote:

    Okay, I was worried there for a moment, Merq!

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:35 pm ¶

15. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “The first film was just as bad, as the only Autobot to die was the Black Autobot.”
    To be fair, apparently they killed him because he was the only movie Autobot who’d never died before (according to a magazine interview around when the movie came out, at least)…

    “Transformers aren’t supposed to be racialized in any way, and are just supposed to sound, well, like ROBOTS.”
    Transformers has always been racialized to some degree, and have always sounded like people. Right down to having accents (Jazz has always “sounded black”, there are several bots with southern accents, a few that sound like New Yorkers, and at least a couple with various European accents, for example). Really, only a few of them (like Soundwave) sound consistently like robots…

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:39 pm ¶

16. Tracey wrote:

    @merq:
    wow, and already done. I pointed out how the two robots had simian features and where completely illiterate, as well as one having a gold tooth, on facebook and got something along those lines. Basically: of corse they’re simian looking and yes one has a gold tooth. Also, very few of them can read (I thought about pointing out while few can read the ancient language those two don’t even know what it is or recognize it but thought better of it). They’re just robots, chill out.
    I guess I’m a racist for pointing out racist stereotypes ’cause otherwise they would go unnoticed.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:53 pm ¶

17. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @merq –

    Yeah, that about sums up what I’m deleting.

    MOD REMINDER

    1. We are under no obligation to publish your comment.
    2. If you do not want to talk about both race AND pop culture, this is not the board for you.
    3. Barack Obama did not bring an end to all stereotypical behavior in America. One man did not erase 400 years of history for fuck’s sake.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 6:12 pm ¶

18. Whitney wrote:

    @Titanis:

    Yeah, I see what you’re saying… they’re still voiced by human actors. I guess what struck me the most though was the gold tooth and that he was buck-toothed, which reallllly reminded me of the firefly in the upcoming The Princess and the Frog movie. The thing that bothered me was that they were over-the-top racilaized. It’s just unnecessary. Having actors with accents is one thing, but giving the robots accents and raclailzing them is another. Does that make sense?

    Let’s just hope that the third Transformers movie is better than this one and that Michael Bay doesn’t direct it.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 6:37 pm ¶

19. Tomás wrote:

    This is a problematic film, to say the least. The depiction and use of race in this film is but one avenue toward seeing that. It sucks on gender, the specific kinds of organized violence it glorifies, and its overall colonialist bent. I wrote about some of it here but the bigger picture is this: this film (like any studio blockbuster) is a product built from popular/mainstream culture to reflect that same culture. A robot can do the master’s bidding as well as (and sometimes better than) the hooded klansman.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 6:52 pm ¶

20. Tony wrote:

    I can’t bring myself to see this movie.
    I loved Transformers when I was a kid, and the first movie was alright (Ignoring the horrible things they did to Jazz)
    But 2 characters who are more racist-caricature than Jazz was?
    No thanks.

    I may rent it on DVD later.

    And I have to ask.
    WHY is it these moviepeople think they need to change so much about these toons?

    Aren’t there any directors who, you know, are the right age to have watched the toons and got what made them special?

    The ONLY things in Bays movie that made me feel like the old Transformers toon was Optimus being Optimus. (and that’s largely due to the orig voice actor)
    I
    The GI JOE movie looks like it’ll be even worse, what with the power-suits and all.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 7:02 pm ¶

21. RCHOUDH wrote:

    I too was peeved at Bay’s nonchalant response which Mammith already referred to. It’s like he’s not even pretending to be concerned that the robots may come off as racist caricatures. And he even blames the voice actors for the way the robots turned out (because you know the director never has control over how voice actors behave/sarcasm!)

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 7:03 pm ¶

22. ktrujillo wrote:

    Add to that the tired idea that the pyramids and Petra must have been built by alien robots since there’s no way a bunch of brown people could have managed it.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 7:47 pm ¶

23. Luis wrote:

    First they turn Jazz, one of the wiser characters from the show (yeah he talked a little jive, but he was at least respected), into this clownish fool who gets killed in seconds. I thought to myself, “Can’t get worse than this.”

    I was wrong. This is much worse.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 8:39 pm ¶

24. Rich wrote:

    an interesting parallel discussion over at racismreview: http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2009/06/26/summer-blockbusters-traffic-in-racist-caricatures-sky-blue/

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 9:44 pm ¶

25. JD wrote:

    Two things:

    First: I was DUMBFOUNDED when these two bots made their debut. To claim that “they’re robots, they can’t be racist” is to turn a blind eye to what was obviously very specific instruction given to the voice actors. I have a hard time believing that anyone (esp. the actors themselves ) were oblivious to the OVERT efforts to “color” these bots. I am a white boy from what could possibly be the whitest state (Utah) — when they started talking I cringed, and just *kept* folding into what could be called a mega-cringe. When they copped to their illiteracy I literally exclaimed aloud, “Are you KIDDING me?!” without thinking. I’m not buying it.

    Second: it didn’t stop there! Can we talk about Turturro’s vaguely Semitic character being called a “pubey headed” something or other (can’t recall specifics, I was apoplectic by this point) by the hamfisted Italian-AmericanClichéBot? Or the way the Jordanian soldiers were introduced, only to be immediately killed seconds later?

    Good thing those handy walkie-talkies dropped right from their useless hands into the able kung-fu grip of the Real American Heroes™.

    Unbelievable.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 9:54 pm ¶

26. gene wrote:

    wow, great discussion.

    giving non-human characters supposedly black characters is always iffy. eddie murphy as the voice of the donkey in ’shrek’ was funny, but jar jar binks was offensive. it sounds like michael bay’s movie took it over the top.

    i suppose the difference is whether or not the audience is being encouraged to laugh AT or WITH the character in question. can the audience sympathize with them as intelligent characters, or are they just animated minstrels, racist proxies for “the other”?

    and even if they are animated minstrels, is it possibly a valid criticism? (bill cosby’s well-known criticisms of some aspects of black culture comes to mind. and yeah, there’s a difference between cosby saying it and bay saying it.)

    just some thoughts. i hadn’t planned on seeing the movie.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 10:00 pm ¶

27. Elton wrote:

    I just wanted to remind everyone that this movie was written by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who also wrote the ever-so-glorified Star Trek XI.

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 10:51 pm ¶

28. Tony wrote:

    @Elton
    The writers already said that alot of the offensive characters in on Bays head.

    http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/news/orci-and-kurtzman-respond-to-claims-of-racism-in-transformers-2.php

    “Interviewer: I heard that the gold tooth was Michael Bay’s idea, but do you have any response to those who found The Twins offensive?

    Orci: Number one, we sympathize. Yes, the gold tooth was not in the script, that’s true.

    Kurtzman: It’s really hard for us to sit here and try to justify it.I think that would be very foolish, and if someone wants to be offended by it, it’s their right. We were very surprised when we saw it, too, and it’s a choice that was made. If anything, it just shows you that we don’t control every aspect of the movie.

    Interviewer: Were you offended by them?

    Kurtzman: I wasn’t thrilled. I certainly wasn’t thrilled.

    Orci: Yeah, same reaction. I’m not easily offended, but when I saw it, I thought, ‘Someone’s gonna write about that.’”

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 11:51 pm ¶

29. Al wrote:

    I didn’t feel the two characters in question were racial stereotypes. In fact I thought they were supposed to be white redneck caricatures.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 10:12 am ¶

30. Yining wrote:

    Saw the movie yesterday and couldn’t believe how racist it was. Even aside from the two caricature robots, there was the fact that the only black people in the film were the primitive tribesmen at the start of the film and the one black soldier guy who for some reason was WEARING FACE PAINT like a football player. While NONE of the other soldiers had face paint. Why was he wearing face paint?!

    Oh, and apparently all Egyptians and Jordanians live inside ruins? And their only means of transport are camels? And argh, that’s not even mentioning the dwarf custom official. What the hell was that?

    But I mean, why do I expect them to be more subtle? They had a mine with a beret and a stripe-y sweater pop up in a cafe in France.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 3:49 pm ¶

31. Kimberly wrote:

    Did anybody notice Bernie Mac’s stereotypical role in the first Transformers? He was a car salesman who adored his “mammy.”

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 7:45 pm ¶

32. Githzerai wrote:

    This may sound a little stupid-but I came out of the movie feeling really hurt. I’ve loved Transformers since I was a little girl-and it was racist and sexist and brutal.

    As for the whole “How can they be racist, they’re robots” thing, the fact that they’re robots just angers me even more. When the only character with the “black” voice or “black” traits just happens to be the one that is caricatured, ugly, and inferior you’re making a powerful statement about how you think those things are connected.

    As a side note, the most recent Transformers TV show (Transformers Animated) sucked a great deal less. The human character was a spunky, nonwhite (Indo-American? Multiracial?) girl, Jazz was clearly one of the wisest, steadiest, and most dedicated characters, the kid-appeal and heavily marketed Bumblebee was voiced by a Black voice actor and when he had a human form, he just happened to be African-American-so it really, really angers me that they went and did this. Kids who got into Transformers through Animated are going to see THAT.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 7:58 pm ¶

33. Shelby wrote:

    From start to finish of this movie my jaw was ON THE FLOOR. I mean, I expected all the sexism and objectification of Makayla. Was fully prepared for it. But then it just went to a whole other level of offensive.
    That opening scene with the savage Africans growling and snarling? I just could not believe it. And then the sex-crazed, wimpy Latino side-kick made me want to vomit (silly moviegoer, POC can’t be brave!) And those DAMN twin bots! When they said the line about them not being able to read I got up and walked out. I wanted to ask for my money back I was so mad. This whole movie just felt like a blatant “Fuck you!” to people of color everywhere.
    God, I feel like I could just go on and on with how full of fricken fail this movie was…SO disappointing.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 8:58 pm ¶

34. Tony wrote:

    @Githzerai

    If it makes you feel any better, those kids will probably think what alot of my Generation of orig Transformers watchers think.

    “That movie was NOT the Transformers”

    I remember thinking something similar when I was a kid and saw the He-Man live action movie.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 9:44 pm ¶

35. ktrujillo wrote:

    This may sound a little stupid-but I came out of the movie feeling really hurt.

    ********

    Me too. I took my kids to see it and afterwards felt like an awful mother. We had to have a forty-five minute conversation about the sexism, racism and jingoism. Nice family evening. The theater was so crowded that we weren’t sitting together and when they got to the part where the twins said in their offensive patois that they ‘can’t read’ I started craning my neck looking for my husband, son and daughter. I probably looked like I was having a seizure I was so mad! *sigh*

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 10:06 pm ¶

36. Miles Ellison wrote:

    This is no accident. It is a deliberate effort to remind black people of their “place.” Robots were the vehicle of choice this time, and they will take their place beside the dresses, fat suits, and blackface as weapons of choice in the post-racial bigotry quiver.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 10:48 pm ¶

37. The Hippo wrote:

    I just seen the transformer movie a few hours ago, and I must say, I found those two characters very problematic and offensive, the movie would have been far better if they were just removed out right. Also,while the portrayal of race is also very problematic,as well as pro-militarism,I’m really not surprised. This is a major motion hollywood picture directed by Michael “Explosions,Explosion,contrived dialogue,Explosions” Bay made primarily to sell action figures! I wasn’t expecting anything progressive or intelligent. I wasn’t expecting an progressive indie movie. I was expecting huge CGI fight scenes and two and a half hours to turn off my mind.
    I’m not defending Bay in any way,I don’t even like Bay, I’m just saying, alot of people on this board seem to be approaching this,the big stupid action/toy commercial, as if it was actually “art” to be criticed,as if it were written by the Coen Brothers or Oliver Stone,when really, its just the same ‘ole pro American,pro-military,pro-consumerist entertainment were the white All-American manly men save the world for God,country,and apple pie.
    This is the Transformers,for Pete’s sake, and while I grew up with them(I collect the figures and comics and all things related to the Transformers), I have no allusions of what it really is:selling actions figures to five to ten years olds and overgrown collector geeks, you didn’t actually expect anything progressive?

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 10:59 pm ¶

38. Githzerai wrote:

    @Ktrujillo

    Ow! I’m glad I watched the movie alone. I would be totally comfortable watching Beast Wars or Animated or even the original with hypothetical kids…Sure, they were violent 30 minute toy commercials, but they were violent 30 minute toy commercials with some *good stuff* in there-which I think is why I’m so pissed off.

    @Tony

    I really hope so. I’m going around saying “That wasn’t REALLY Transformers” myself.

    The movie’s values were repellant on every level-I mean, even if we could put aside the racism and sexism for a moment-they had Optimus shoot what should have been a prisoner in the head.

    Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 11:40 pm ¶

39. emma wrote:

    @Tracey

    That’s how it works nowadays. You are the racist if you notice or point out the racism of others. That’s what “post racial” means dontcha know?

    As far as the topic goes, the twin robots were racist. The little toy truck robot was a racial stereotype as well. His goombah accent was really quite annoying. Then there was the blatant sexual exploitation of Megan Fox (I guess they don’t know how many little girls loved the Transformers too). She was barely clothed and in one scene landed with her face in some dude’s crotch. I would also imagine that many parents were surprised by the dog humping, pot brownies and the profanity as well.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 1:12 am ¶

40. Titanis walleri wrote:

    For what it’s worth, the overall fan opinion on the twins seems to be that they’re supposed to be parodies of white people acting black, rather than of black people…

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 1:15 am ¶

41. Lyonside wrote:

    @TheHippo:

    Noone is claiming the movie is “art” nor are we saying that it isn’t a huge Hasbro commercial.

    But if a 30-minute spot managed to include African savages, jive-talking illiterates, sex-crazed Latinos, and whatever else they can throw in, PEOPLE WOULD AND SHOULD STILL BE UPSET.

    I mean, damn – we don’t have cartoon pickaninnies selling floor cleaner on TV… ANYMORE, that is. Times change. Whoever wrote this movie hasn’t, and the fact that no studio exec blinked and said, “NO” is telling.

    WHO CARES whether it’s a short commercial or a long one – it’s marketed to kids and families, it’s mainstream, it’s part of a mass-marketing blitz, and it’s a movie that is an update of a part of American pop culture.

    Therefore, it’s significant and has the potential for influence. “Art” or not.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 2:51 am ¶

42. Shelby wrote:

    And about the robot humping Megan’s leg thing…I just don’t understand the thought process behind it. I mean I get that it was supposed to be her ‘chihuahua’ or something, but the thing could talk. It had a personality, held conversations. It wasn’t running around doing robot-barks or something. So when it started humping her leg it didn’t come off as “Dog-bot doing doggy things” but as “Creepy Person willfully assaulting Megan Fox.” I just don’t get how you flesh out that joke in your mind w/o thinking “ew, creepy.”
    But clearly if you think illiterate, robot sambos are funny what’s a little sexual battery between friends? Ugh! I just…I can’t handle this much stupid!

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 4:52 am ¶

43. Roxie wrote:

    @Yining: Dwarfs need work too! I’m not sure if you’re taking issue with what they said about him or if you’re taking issue with his very presence :-/

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 5:42 am ¶

44. Sean wrote:

    I can easily imagine Michael Bay coming across like Tony Danza’s character Fred from the film Crash.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 10:56 am ¶

45. Phil Deeze wrote:

    @ Gene (#26),
    When you’re talking about the creator of “Fat Albert and The Cosby Kids,” I’d say that holding him up as the arbiter of determining what’s a caricature and that isn’t sort of rings hollow.
    After all, the gigantic lips on some of the characters, playing/hanging out in a junkyard, etc. It’s almost like “Fat Albert” and his 80’s offering “The Cosby Show” were on diametrically different sides of the socioeconomic scale, but “The Cosby Show” didn’t get the damaging stereotypes.
    The Huxtables were given every nobility, privilege and positive family value. Even when Denise dropped out of college, it was spun, quite Palin-style, into a good thing. That’s a far cry from a group of kids playing musical instruments made from junk and a kid with a pink skully pulled down over his head to wear his lips couldn’t even be seen. But I’m sure, in Cosby fashion, they would’ve been some soup-coolers.
    I’m just saying, though.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 11:29 am ¶

46. Betty Chambers wrote:

    It is interesting to me how no one (at least reporters) sees racism and sexism when it is pointed at black women in movies.

    In the first Transformers, there were a few scenes with Bernie Mac and Anthony Anderson being unreasonably hostile towards women (black) and it was portrayed as comic relief. It was just rather nasty and offensive.

    Plus with most “blockbuster” it’s the same crap, over and over again. No one should be surprised that M. Bay was much more blatant with it this time.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 1:28 pm ¶

47. The Hippo wrote:

    @Lyonside: I’m not saying people shouldn’t be offended. I’m not defending the movie by any means,I find the “twins”* offensive, I’m just saying, I’m not surprised. The Transformers has a history of these types of things, using different transformers as caricatures of different ethnic-groups. I mean,in the old cartoon there were transformers that had southern accents,Brooklyn accents,English accents,Scottish accents etc. who also would act stereotypically. There was a Japanese samurai transformer that was very stereotypically Japanese and called Banzai-Tron, I think. The Female autobots were always colored pink or purple and always had a feminine figures,and always portrayed as needing the help of the “male” autobots, why would a giant race of robots have sexes? And of course the Transformer movies in general are pro-militarism, look at the premise:”A race of sentient alien robots have been fighting a civil war for millions of years, and have the ability to disquise themselves as vehicles.” Its expected.

    Also, on the African tribespeople,that scene took place 10s of thousands of years before modern human civilization,in pre-history,when human beings didn’t have cities or towns,and were mostly nomads, if it took place in Europe,it would show European tribespeople wielding spears and hammers,if it took place in the Americas,it would show Clovis-era native Americans. Now if the scene took place in modern day Africa, then it might have been a problem.
    * If I may play devils advocate for a moment, I actually heard somewere that the twins were based of wiggers or white southerners, and why when the twins are asked say they can’t read, people take that to mean they are illiterate. Excusme, but they only said they couldn’t read ancient cybertronian, and didn’t other transformers say they could’nt read ancient cybertronian? Jumping to the conclusion of them being illiterate because they couldn’t understand a complex and hard language would be like calling someone illiterate because they can’t read Sumerian hieroglyphs.

    Again, I’m not defending the movie, the movie does have race issues,I”m just putting this out here for the sake of argument.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 4:03 pm ¶

48. Chris wrote:

    @Shelby

    Oh my God…I had heard that Megan Fox gets humped by a robot dog in the movie, which is bad enough. But if what you’re saying is true, and the robot dog acts like a human being throughout other parts of the movie…

    Well, there’s just no way around this. Megan Fox gets raped in this movie, and it’s treated as a laugh.

    I think I have to go throw up now.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 9:05 pm ¶

49. Githzerai wrote:

    @Hippo

    Maybe I shouldn’t have been, but I was shocked (and I’m a Transformers fan with many, many toys). Like you said, most of the exaggerated stereotypes were from the old series-I didn’t expect such a huge step backwards-though I don’t remember those characters as being portrayed as ugly and inferior in the same way that the twins are. Or being so stylistically different from the other Transformers.

    But it wasn’t Europeans or Clovis-era Native Americans-when they wanted an example of savagery they reached for *that* stereotype. Besides, what happened to Egypt?

    Besides, as a commercial-well, it put me off buying more toys, at least until a different, less stupid line comes out. That’s an accomplishment.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 9:23 pm ¶

50. Jack D. wrote:

    Is it racism or some other related -ism if the characters are alien mechanical constructs that aren’t specifically black, but are instead tapping a particular class or culture?

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 11:19 pm ¶

51. Tony wrote:

    @Chris.

    I don’t think one can compare ‘humping someones leg’ to ‘rape.

    if that’s the case, then like 2 characters and some inanimate objects get ‘raped’ in “Fanboys”

    Now, I’ll admit, humping is far closer to rape than MOST things that get compared to rape.
    (”Some dude snipered me in HALO, he freaking raped me!”)
    but it’s still a long cry from actual rape.

    Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 11:49 pm ¶

52. Tony wrote:

    @Jack.

    Yes, it is.

    When the only autobots who seem to have any “black” ties are of the “Ghetto thug” stereotype, it’s a racial imagery thing.

    Take race out of the equation.
    If they were, say, the only Transformers with thick southern accents, and one of them had a Confederate flag (thus analogizing the Gold Tooth) and they were portrayed as the dumbest autobots who couldn’t even read?

    I (and I bet a lot of other Southerners) would be offended.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 12:35 am ¶

53. chanita wrote:

    I gotta say, the most uncomfortable thing to watch was the guy in John Turturro’s shop- with the big teeth and accent. He looked like the twins. I wonder if that was on purpose?? Like we were supposed to see the resemblance or something… or maybe it was just me…?

    Also, a bit off topic, but whatever the hell Megan Fox has done to her face was the most distracting thing of all.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 2:13 am ¶

54. bdsista wrote:

    Based upon the this and the article about the racist robots in the Washington Post and the poor reviews, my friends and I aren’t going. My recommendation is to go downtown and get the bootleg if you want to see it and Bay gets none of your money. When the movie tanks at the box office, people take notice.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 2:57 am ¶

55. perpetual explosion wrote:

    It sounds like the classic Michael Bay formula. Michael Bay seems to think his audience are all the same middle-class white man-child who likes boobs and big explosions and is afraid of black men with serious demeanors and/or facial expressions. Anyone outside of this demographic is shunned. Therefore, it is important to fill every available second of screentime with explosions, closeups of cleavage and juvenile innuendo, and keep the black characters clownish and non-threatening, all in order to turn maximum profit, to separate the maximum number of n00bs from their money.

    It also seems to say a lot about what Michael Bay thinks of the movie-going public in general. He isn’t afraid of offending black people, because in his mind, black people are all ghetto stereotypes who don’t watch movies. Likewise, he isn’t afraid of offending women, because as everyone knows, women only watch romantic comedies, and in any case are too busy baking their man a pie to go see a movie. Nor is he afraid of offending men who respect women, because as a rule, men are all heterosexual, sex-crazed and haven’t developed emotionally since 10th grade. Competent black people, women who watched Transformers as kids, and emotionally mature, non-sexist men just don’t seem to fit in his mind.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 9:49 am ¶

56. Yonah wrote:

    Perpetual Explosion – Your comment made me laugh so hard. Right on.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 11:14 am ¶

57. Izzy22 wrote:

    I saw the movie this past weekend and I really think this whole thing with the twin robots is being blown way out of proportion. I never thought those two robots were black. To me, they came across as dumb, country, bickering twins. In my opinion, Jazz, is the only transformer that came across as black in the first movie and the original cartoon. If anything I was appalled by the language and sexual references used in the “PG 13″ movie that is promoted endlessly on Nickelodeon. I felt terrible because I had six kids with me who were dying to see the movie and they were exposed to a gross amount of inappropriate words and references. Even to the point that I feel an edited version of the film should be released.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 12:00 pm ¶

58. The Hippo wrote:

    @Perpetual explosion: You just got the michael bay formula down pat

    Car Chases and Gun fights+Cool one-liners in the thick of combat+big-busted women in slow motion+juvenal sex jokes= Every michael bay movie ever made.Ever.

    @Izzy22: I also agree with you on the twins: they weren’t Black, they were caricatures white southerners. Still doesn’t make it any less offensive though. They made fun of poor whites,instead of ghetto Blacks, were supposed to think thats better? Also I agree with you on the films rating. PG-13 my ass. There were to many sex-jokes,profanity,too much simulated and gratuitous violence, and I heard a few children cry when they seen the Fallen. Some people actually brought their toddlers! Seriosly,parents,don’t bring anyone under 13 to the movie.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 6:51 pm ¶

59. BrunoZaire wrote:

    This is truly disappointing … Not paying money to be insulted. Support your illegal corner movie peddler instead.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 9:00 pm ¶

60. Kim wrote:

    To me “pop a cap in yo ass” just doesn’t strike me as a Southern/hick stereotype.

    Also, has anyone read any good blogs that analyze the racism more thoroughly? Any that take into account the apologisms that have already been put forth all over the internet? All I can seem to find are countless news articles (and in response, forum posts), which is nice because for once the general media seems to be getting outraged over this. On the other hand, voices that normally speak up about this kind of topic seem to be more silent than usual.

    Posted 30 Jun 2009 at 1:24 am ¶

61. Joe wrote:

    I couldn’t understand why those two robots

    faces were like that???

    These are robots. All the robots are perfectally symmetrical but these two aren’t even going as far as having gold teeth and what seem to be big ears on the side of their heads.

    This was very tasteless. Robots being illiterate? How? Can’t they just link up to a PC and learn everything in 5 minutes?

    I’m not one to get offended easily but I ask you. What did the majority of audiences think those two robots resembled???

    Its a sad thing to see but the way the media portrays African Americans. It’s hard to imagine that the general perception of African Americans will change anytime soon.

    I wonder if rappers and etc ever take time to think of the damage they cause? Compare the BET awards to an awards show such as the Academy Awards.

    Anyway I’m done. Bay isn’t really a good director in my opinion and this movie just enforces that. Just throw as much CGI as you can and the majority audience will think its good. Right?

    Posted 30 Jun 2009 at 6:16 pm ¶

62. dejamorgana wrote:

    “The Hippo”, the twins did NOT say “we can’t read this ancient Decepticon dialect”. What they said was, “read it? Uh, we don’t do much readin’.” It was not in any way comparable to a modern human saying s/he couldn’t read Sumerian, and I don’t see how anyone could interpret it that way.

    And if the twins were supposed to be white hicks, Southerners, country folk, or “urban” white kids trying to be act black, I’m wondering why one of them had bug eyes, jug ears, buck teeth and a gold tooth.

    The racist caricature didn’t just happen, it isn’t in the audience’s imagination, and it wasn’t (only) the fault of the voice actors. Somebody authorised the expenditure of tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of computer time designing that Sambot, and a hell of a lot of people collaborated to make him the ultimate racist sidekick.

    This whole movie is an insult to everyone in the audience, but especially to everyone in the audience who isn’t a young white right-leaning hetero male.

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 1:09 am ¶

63. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “These are robots. All the robots are perfectally symmetrical but these two aren’t even going as far as having gold teeth and what seem to be big ears on the side of their heads.”
    I’ve heard they were originally supposed to combine in robot mode. That might explain the asymmetry of their bot modes, particularly how their asymmetry is mirrored (one has a big left arm, and the other has a big right arm, for example)…

    Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 4:57 pm ¶

64. Rosie wrote:

    What about the actors who voiced the robots? One of them is definitely African-American. How do you think he feels about the entire matter?

    Posted 09 Jul 2009 at 12:13 am ¶