Comments

1. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

   Latoya, I was very annoyed with all of the stereotypes referencing her West Indian background. The most common one is “them Island women are crazy”. *rolling eyes*

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 2:29 pm ¶

2. spiderlgs wrote:

   You share a lot of the same thoughts I have had throughout this whole debacle. I think the rush to defend Chris Brown is the same as the rush to defend R. Kelly/Mike Tyson/Tupac/Kobe/OJ… men who have been accused of crimes against women. I think it comes from our need to protect the black man because has gotten it unfairly from society for so long that we must be skeptical of this new allegation. IT’s all just trying to keep a brother down. I don’t buy it.

   I think that all allegations/reports should be taken seriously, because when they are not what message are sending to the victims.

   I was in SO Many conversation about those crazy Island women.. and I think that is simply ludicrous. I mean I know some crazy African American women, but I could never imagine anything anyone could have done in the car to warrant that kind of beaten down.

   After reading the affidavit, my heart goes out to Rihanna and all battered women. I feel bad because she hasn’t stood up for herself… and what if no one had and she was still with him? that is the sad part.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 2:55 pm ¶

3. J. wrote:

   i find myself reacting against the “she’s caribbean” dimension of this situation, and how that in any way could ever justify abuse of any kind. domestic violence always takes place in a cultural context, and culture is too often used to distract from the central issue: no one deserves to be hit, beaten, abused in any way.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 3:19 pm ¶

4. Lydia wrote:

   I’ve been thinking a lot about this and I agree on not knowing how to answer about the was justice served. The other thing I have seen a lot of is people being upset about Chris Brown not seeing jail time. Many are saying it was because of his money. I don’t know statistics or anything, but from the way people have addressed domestic violence in the past, this kind of sentencing is more a reflection of how this country has sentenced abusers instead of his fame and money.

   I have been so upset at the way people have attacked Rihanna as if anyone ever deserves to be beaten. Even if she did hit him/yell at him/etc that does not excuse his behavior. It does not suddenly become ok for him to hit her even if she was “acting crazy”.

   I do hope Chris Brown takes his domestic violence course seriously, so he can work to break the habit of resorting to violence. I also hope Rihanna is going to counseling of some kind to help keep her from re-entering the cycle of abuse. I’m just afraid that she’s going to fall back into this kind of relationship.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 3:24 pm ¶

5. louise wrote:

   Man i think it really exposed some deep seated animosity that “some” african american people have towards other black people from the diaspora especially those from the english speaking carribean. i have seen this for myself not nice.

   she was in effect an outsider in the sphere of the african american world, it was easier to stimgmatise her as a
   woman – gender based
   as a black woman- race based
   a foreigner- zenophobia based.

   but chris “beat her down” brown , he is just a sweet all-american guy, surely he could not have been the bad guy in this!
   even if you count what the media may have against him (colour) he is still a man and an american.

   sad business!!!

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 3:25 pm ¶

6. Beth wrote:

   I don’t like how it seems like her agency has been taken away, how other people are talking about her, how she’s ended up as a poster woman for something she doesn’t seem to have wanted to be a poster woman for.

   At the same time I read that affidavit and I think, “society *needs* to protect her from him.” For anyone who says, “she hasn’t stood up for herself,” she called two people in that car. She defended herself from his attacks. The problem IS NOT HER.

   I can’t decide whether the racist crap that was thrown at her was primarily racist, or primarily misogynistic. If she’d been any other nationality, I doubt the rationalizations would have been absent. While they certainly took a very ugly, racist tone, it was all about disparaging her in any way possible.

   People defended Chris because they were defending a type of masculinity where beating your girl is not only acceptable, it is a sign of manliness. He didn’t learn to behave this way in a vacuum. His image was the “good boy” version of masculinity, which apparently means you only do beat women when no one else is going to see. The people who spoke most strongly in support of Chris didn’t do it because they were in denial about what he had done. They spoke out because they could see themselves doing the same thing, or accepting someone doing the same thing to them.

   Justice? There is no justice here. This guilty plea isn’t going to teach the next generation of boys that it isn’t okay to beat the shit out of their girlfriend. It isn’t going to turn the American police into friendly, non-racist allies of battered women, men and children. Even on an individual level, I think justice for her would leave her empowered, not a text book example.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 3:26 pm ¶

7. Lady Di wrote:

   louise said :

   she was in effect an outsider in the sphere of the african american world, it was easier to stimgmatise her as a
   woman – gender based
   as a black woman- race based
   a foreigner- zenophobia based.

   If she was just African-American she would’ve got the same treatment. I’m trying hard to not make this a Black American vs. West Indian Blacks debate and saying she would’ve had people running to her defense if she was African-American because that is not true. Black American women are outsiders in the Black community as well lol. However, using the “island women are crazy” to justify her being beaten by Chris Brown, was just ridiculous and I am not defending that. I am too appauled of the situation of people “blaming the victim”. After the pictures were released, I heard people saying”It’s not that bad” like before we can sympathize for her position of being victim of domestic violence, we have to measure the amount of damage on her first lol. I could not believe the crap I read. People saying she is crazy so she probably hit him first. The craziest I heard was someone saying that she is like most black women holding the black man down by calling the police and making him another black male statistic. As if she is suppose to be held responsible for his actions lol. Just crazy mess! Oh my favorite coming from women was “It’s wrong for men to hit women, BUT it’s wrong for women to hit men” Like that was said in the article that she hit him lol. I had Rihanna’s back because there is nothing funny or cool about being beaten.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 4:19 pm ¶

8. Seattle Slim wrote:

   The intra-racist (?) tone was vomit inducing to say the least. I could not believe that they were justifying her beating because she was West-Indian. With that said, I do agree that they would’ve blamed even an AA woman, just not as badly. I think they went in HARD on Rihanna because she is a foreigner. I also detected that it could be colorism at play.

   Which is why the TMZs and the Perez Hiltons REALLY defended her. Had this been say a Teyana Taylor or a Naturi Naughton, nobody would’ve really cared all that much. Part of that is attributed to how partly irrelevant these girls are, but I still detected some colorism.

   The defense of him battering her seemed like projection to me. A lot of these women would give a disclaimer and say that they had been hit by a boyfriend before or their relative was because she was mouthing off. They were projecting their lives onto her and expecting her to handle it the way they did.

   Bottomline is BW need to learn a whole lot of self-love and appreciation. I was disheartened to see that celebs were still gravitating to Brown, even women like the aforementioned Teyana Taylor.

   As a collective, we do not love ourselves and it shows.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 4:55 pm ¶

9. Matt wrote:

   Hardly important here, but I’m not surprised by this, “It feels…unfinished almost, as if we never got around to the real discussion.” I really hate The Takeaway.

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 5:08 pm ¶

10. N wrote:

    It’s a sickness. I blame misogyny first and the black community’s tendency to rally around black males even when the victim is also black.
    As far as the Caribbean thing? There is a grain of truth, but AA women IMO need to look in the mirror, I have found that AA and many Caribbean women DO find a certain level of partner abuse acceptable. That does NOT at all excuse Chris and it is most definitely to blame Rihanna.

    That is to say, there may be a little projection going on there. Many women know how common it is in certain communities for women to “go upside” a man’s head for disrespectful behavior and take that in consideration when attempting to find a justification for Chris’ behavior.

    Women definitely are the main victims of abuse. BUT we women when we participate in abuse, we too are teaching our children male and female that hitting is an acceptable form of stress management, anger relief and conflict resolution. And its sad, because in the end we share some responsibility for the culture of violence and the attitudes many men of African ancestry share.

    If we encourage it, if we slap the taste out of our man for ogling a woman we are part of the problem. If we turn a blind eye to male violence, we are part of the problem.

    And I am NOT blaming women, just wishing we would do more to STOP the madness.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 5:13 pm ¶

11. sasha wrote:

    The attitude that many people in the African American community displayed towards Rihanna and domestic violence in general really disgusted me and almost made me ashamed and embarrased as a black woman. I’m not sure how I feel about the verdict; I hope he gets the help he needs so that he won’t hurt anyone else but I’m doubtful that will happen. About a month or so ago he released a statement calling people who did not defend him “haters”; in addition there is a song making the rounds on the net he recorded called, “its not my fault” so……………whatever. I also hope Rihanna gets help also so she hopefully won’t end up in another abusive situation.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 5:22 pm ¶

12. Lady Di wrote:

    Seattle Slim said:

    The intra-racist (?) tone was vomit inducing to say the least. I could not believe that they were justifying her beating because she was West-Indian. With that said, I do agree that they would’ve blamed even an AA woman, just not as badly. I think they went in HARD on Rihanna because she is a foreigner. I also detected that it could be colorism at play.

    I have to disagree. I don’t think they went extra hard on her because she was West Indian. I think the extra venom came from some of the Black women not liking her because of her being a superstar with “less talent” The ones who feel that way were mostly Beyonce fans lol. I’ve read on mostly black gossip sites that reported this story and the regular posters that were excusing Chris Brown’s behavior and making disparaging remarks about Rihanna’s ethnicity were regular posters who love Beyonce and have participated in this fake ass and non-existent rivalry between those two. I do think her being West Indian might have something to do with it but to me little to do with it. I just think her being black and woman and some of the black people being black male apologist to defend Chris Brown. I just think if she was AA, she would’ve had just as much bad treatment.

    Seattle Slim said:

    Which is why the TMZs and the Perez Hiltons REALLY defended her. Had this been say a Teyana Taylor or a Naturi Naughton, nobody would’ve really cared all that much. Part of that is attributed to how partly irrelevant these girls are, but I still detected some colorism.

    You opening up a can of worms with this one lol. Bringing up colorism always has people going nuts. However, I’m going to agree. I do think that the colorism thing might have played in it as well.

    However, people don’t talk about the ageism that could’ve participated in this exploitation? Could the fact that these two being a young black couple have something to do with them being a poster for domestic violence?

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 5:26 pm ¶

13. gatamala wrote:

    Thanks for reminding us of the lack of choice in this whole situation.

    I can’t imagine physically and emotionally recuperating from a savage assault, then having celebrity dictate whether/how you navigate the judicial system.

    Considering how young she was when she got in this game, all of her adult life (can we call it that?) has been managed/dictated by some other people. Relationships (maybe this was her first real “ADULT” relationship) may have been her only form of autonomy and a “refuge” from what felt like control.

    ***
    About that Caribbean thing.

    Not 2 god damn weeks ago someone from Dominica laid the “as a Caribbean woman I was raised not to take that shit how could she” on me. This AfAm was trying to explain it was a lot more complicated than that. Had the ethnicities been reversed she would have been accused of not respecting his culture and being an out-of-pocket American woman.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 6:11 pm ¶

14. Big Man wrote:

    Latoya

    I appreciate your concerns, but I’m disturbed by your decision to turn to the affadavit and say “This is what happened.”

    The affadavit contains the prosecution’s allegations about what happened. It should be viewed as a decidely biased document.

    It’s like viewing the official police report as a totally accurate recounting of what occurred.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 6:46 pm ¶

15. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Big Man –

    It’s always interesting to see how men react to this. I said the affidavit explains the strange markings she receives. There was also no official statement from Brown released, no indication of him taking any sort of damage, and no other documents officially filed.

    He also took a plea, which in an of itself doesn’t say anything:

    http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/06/chris-brown-plea-rihannas-attorney-reacts.html

    But it would appear that he doesn’t have much of a case to fight her accusations. In addition, the report from EW confirms Elizabeth’s point that Rihanna has been fairly resistant to this whole process. She turned down the additional protection orders offered by the court.

    I can understand your unwillingness to accept the narrative at face value. I’ve had men close to me falsely accused of things they did not do.

    However, I’ve also have women close to me suffer abuse at the hands of their partners. And it’s interesting how brothers get concerned about their reputations, and women are concerned about staying alive.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 7:32 pm ¶

16. c.n. edaw wrote:

    Since the Mike Tyson rape case I have been on the losing side of the argument when it comes to defending black women who may have been the victims of violence.

    I was very young then, but everywhere–at church, in the beauty shop, on the streets–I heard people say the most vile things about the beauty contestant (and of course Robin Givens ) to justify what Mike Tyson may or may not have done…especially after he was convicted.

    Even years later, with all his criminal and anti- social antics, there are still black men and women who defend Mike Tyson to the ends of the earth.

    I literally lost friends over arguments about R. Kelly. Micheal Jackson, I believe, is the only black man we won’t TOTALLY go there for. And it angers and disgusts me.

    The defense of Chris Brown only would have been stronger in black communities IF the victim had been a white female (celebrity or not)..which would have opened up a whole nother can of worms.

    I honestly don’t believe a black American, non Caribbean victim would have made anyone any more sympathetic.

    IMHO, if Rihanna had not been at the height of her career and so all American girl pretty (she is a Cover Girl, after all), I’m not sure the case would have gotten near this amount of attention.

    If Chris Brown had slugged any black American woman other than Beyonce, Oprah, or Halle Berry–I am not sure this would have made it past news blurb within the mainstream media. We’d only have read about it on Bossip, Ebony, Jet and Essence.

    An average black woman? Ha, please –sorry, that’s not a story. Or she would have been drug through the mud so thoroughly within the first 24 hours Chris might have opted to take his chances and go to trial seeking, “redemption”.

    Most of the anti-Caribbean comments I was aware of were made online. Where I live there are not enough people who have actually seen or met anyone from the Islands to know there is any type of stereotype to comment on.

    And as someone mentioned, it’s hard to separate that which was true anti-Caribbean sentiment from supposedly reasonable people and how much was from 13 year olds who routinely post polls asking “who is better Beyonce’ or Rhi Rhi?” and see everything as an opportunity to fuel that “rivalry”.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 8:11 pm ¶

17. Queen B wrote:

    I was on one of those websites where people were supposedly “defending” Chris Brown. My opinion on the whole situtation was I was not going to condemn CB without knowing all of the facts. I was going to withhold judgment until both sides had the opportunity to present their case. For some people, if you did not come out immediately and condemn CB and ask for the maximum penalty you were somehow supporting domestic violence. Anyone who is accused of a crime is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    Coming from a legal perspective, here you have an affidavit/police report which is double hearsay-not admissible in court as evidence to prove guilt and people are quoting it verbatim as complete fact when Rihanna was not under oath and subject to cross-examination.

    Secondly, you have a member of the LAPD leaking a crucial piece of evidence (photo) to a tabloid website for profit which calls into question the integrity of the investigation.
    Thirdly, the LAPD does not have the best history when it comes to the treatment of minorities and I do not think that it was a
    coincidence that all of the negative information was leaked to Brown’s detriment which would make a difficult for him or anyone for that matter to obtain a fair trial.

    In addition, you have the violence against women advocates wanting to use Rihanna as a symbol when she herself appears not to want that position or the protection from the courts.

    For many people, it seemed like CB was getting railroad by the criminal justice system like so many other black men which is why there were some who rallied around him for that fact alone.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 8:24 pm ¶

18. Ron wrote:

    * The desire for some blogs and many in the black community to immediately defend Chris Brown can be described as what? Racial solidarity? Internalized misogyny? A desire to be fair? Is there a way to be fair when one person is on the receiving end of the damage? Was the resolve around CB strengthened when he was universally damned by blogs like TMZ and Perez Hilton?

    I am not sure that I agree with this premise that black websites defended Chris Brown. Do you have measurable facts for this premise?

    In my opinion, Bossip has been extremely hard on Chris Brown. Rappers have come out with song denouncing Chris Brown. Some people say he has a price on his head.

    * I really want to talk about the “She’s Caribbean” thing more in depth. The stereotypes that surfaced, and how quickly they were embraced.

    I think this is tongue and cheek online banter.

    *We were asked on the show if justice was served. I still don’t know how to answer that.

    No justice was not served. Chris Brown got off lightly for a horrific crime.

    Both sides wanted this matter to go away. Rhianna did not seem like she would cooperate so the prosecution had its hands ties and had little leverage.

    The fact that those photos were leaked really screwed up this case.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 9:56 pm ¶

19. c.n. edaw wrote:

    @Queen Bee I concur with your reasoned approach to evaluating the evidence. I don’t believe in the rush to judgement either.

    However, even if there had been abslolute proof he was guilty, there would have been a strong contigent of people claiming 1)he was being railroaded and 2) the woman was somehow at fault.

    The tape would have had to have been doctored. The records tampered. A vast white conspiracy against a black r&b singer that most white people over the age of 30 don’t even know.

    As a black woman, I understand why you and others feel like you do about the criminal justice system and it’s treatment of black men, generally speaking over the years.

    However as a victim of sexual assault (at the hands of a black male), who has worked with other black women who are crime victims (usually at the hands of black men)–I think there’s certainly an argument that using this “excuse” for rallying around black men caught up in tricky situations does more harm than good, especially to black women.

    But maybe its because unlike you, most people
    can’ t just say he’s innocent until proven guilty. They have to say that AND that Rihanna is a liar. That AND Rihanna is whore. That and Rihanna deserved it. It never just stops at let’s just wait for all the facts to shake out..it ALWAYS goes further.

    The man who attacked me was a pretty prominent man in our community. I was 19 and he was 50. Despite the overwhelming evidence against him, and even after he was convicted of doing what he did to me and to two other black females (one his 12 year old niece)…what was nearly as traumatizing as the assault itself was people who accused me of just “trying to bring down a good black man” along with the usual that I had “asked for it ” or had “really wanted it”.

    During that time my brother had to stop getting his hair cut because everytime he went to the barbershop people would start fights with him and ask him why his “bitch of a sister” would try to “railroad a brother like that”.

    Before it went to trial, I got death threats, was stalked, and had other black men who made up false stories about being involved in multiple sexual escapades with me in order to “protect another brother from being railroaded by the system”.

    In the seconds after I was attacked I recall,even at age 19 not wanting to go to police. I had watched enough t.v. to know that as woman, you are going to be victimized again within the system and as a BLACK woman I would be stigmatized within my own community further. Had other victims not come forward; I probably would not have testified or proceeded with the case.

    To this day, I still don’t necessarily feel it was worth it. And I don’t know why Rihanna may or may not want to share her story (assuming there is one) with the public, but I know I made that choice simply because I’d rather not re open myself up to being portrayed as the villian.

    I just wish there were away this protection of black men was not so often at the expense of black women or other victims of any race.

    Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 10:08 pm ¶

20. Thokozani.-J wrote:

    My heart really goes out to Rihanna, because as some have observed, she has said and done nothing during this time. And I personally find her silence saddening and piercing, especially when there is so much she might want to say about what has happened to her. After reading the affidavit, I think that Brown has a lot to answer for and I’m surprised that people are backing him up the way they are – what if that was YOUR sister, or mother, or cousin, or friend? Would it matter then that Brown is a celebrity and therefore he must be telling the truth, and Rihanna is an ‘island woman’? No, thats disgusting and I think people need to stop defending black men such as Brown who commit crimes against women – or anyone else- and think that they deserve support because they’re black. This means that they never have to take responsibility for their bad actions and therefore, they never grow up. And then we wonder why we can’t advance as a race in certain areas? Its because we behave irresponsibly, we brush real issues under the carpet and we commit black-on-black blame instead of pointing out the real perpetrators. And those of us who are brave enough to stand up or call out all the ills within our community are called ‘haters’. The real haters are those within our communities who are happy to defend criminal actions and witch hunt the victims; because ultimately, they don’t love our communities enough to say the truth – which although it hurts, will set us free. Brown needs to take responsibility and stop acting like he’s made out of sugar. Rihanna needs to stop being stigmatised. End of.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 5:58 am ¶

21. Kandeezie wrote:

    @c.n. edaw – I second that. And what a wonderful testimony.

    @everyone else – I completely agree with all of those who say that this is misogyny intensified by race. I think too many people are fighting for the right of black men to be seen as equal to white men, meaning that they have an equal right to be an oppressive patriarch. Isn’t that what “they” say the problem is with black women, that we don’t know our place and often challenge black men when we shouldn’t? That we embarrass them because we won’t submit ourselves like white women do? If thinking along those lines, it makes sense that I saw way too many comments saying that if Rihanna had just known her place (and crazy Island women certainly don’t know their place), then this wouldn’t happen.

    Wrong.

    And I have a sneaking suspicion that some of these women who criticize Rihanna have been victims themselves who were silenced and are using their anger to direct it at women who do get some form of “justice” instead of at their perpetrators (’Who does she think she is? No one helped me! Why should she get special treatment. I bet she wanted it.).

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 9:41 am ¶

22. Joy wrote:

    “I really want to talk about the “She’s Caribbean” thing more in depth. The stereotypes that surfaced, and how quickly they were embraced.”

    While I did hear a few comments (all spoken in jest like you know people do) about her being West Indian, no black women, or men, I know used that as a serious justification or excuse or even a reason for what happened.

    People are almost always black first, then American, Nigerian, Jamican, or whatever second. Everyone I know considered Rhianna as black before this, and continue to do so afterwards. I don’t think her being American would have affected a thing.

    Yeah, you can go deeper in the black community and find some “American” “West Indian” and “African” divisions, but in my opinion this is just not an example.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 10:05 am ¶

23. Kandeezie wrote:

    @Lady Di – “Black American women are outsiders in the Black community as well”I just finally understood what you said!!

    I am reading some comments now on the other sites and they’re saying they stick up for Chris because they hate to see a black person go down. To me, that means they don’t see black women as “black people”. Maybe it starts with them not seeing women as people but as things. So they think they’re standing up for black people! They really do!! WTF.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 10:11 am ¶

24. Kavita wrote:

    On the question of justice:

    To me, justice would be if Rihanna came out of this empowered, if she is able to use this terrible experience as impetus to, as Seattle Slim said, love herself more. As the public, I don’t think we’ll ever really know the answer to that question.

    I would also feel a sense of justice if we, as a community, had reacted to this violence with unified condemnation. Unfortunately, its been the same old blame the victim game, with excuses and justifications made for Brown’s behavior. It especially saddens me that I’ve seen no collective rejection of domestic violence from men. Not only has there been no justice in this case, it seems we haven’t learned anything, and are therefore doomed to repeat it.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 10:34 am ¶

25. Iggles wrote:

    I just read the official affidavit. It’s really upsetting. He is a monster. He should be in jail. I have no sympathy for him. I’m sure he’ll mess up his parole. Hopefully he won’t kill someone before people see him for what he really is.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 11:31 am ¶

26. tamara wrote:

    safety and security for music industry executives and protection the privacy of public figures will be discussed at the asset protection conference with attorney stephen sears.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 1:52 pm ¶

27. random00b wrote:

    @gatamala: Off-Topic: you know someone from Dominica (not the Republic?). You mean, I’m not the only one in the U.S. ? *lol* It only seems that way, but of course, I’m on the West Coast.

    On-Topic: I’m actually not surprised with your friend’s commentary because my extended family has the same mentality. The one time a boyfriend/fiancee hit one of my aunts, not only did she go into “oh no, you don’t”, but three of my uncles went to have “man-to-man” talk with him about “never, ever hitting a woman.”

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 2:33 pm ¶

28. The Hippo wrote:

    As other’s have already said, the widespread support for Chris Brown in the Black community is the result of tired patriarchal ideals of masculunity and femininity in the Black community,plus internalized racism, and I will add a new one:religous indoctrination and conceptions of “Blackness”. A “Real Man”as told by the church and the bible, is supposed to be able to fight,defend and support his family, and control his woman or women. The womens only job is to be demure and shut up,according to the church. And considering Black men have historically been excluded from the job market and places of power, Black people,particularly the Black church, have felt that any Black person that makes it in this racist nation must be protected at all cost, and any person that stands in his way,rather white people or Black women or gay Black people.

    Cornel West,in his book Race Matters, talked about what he called the “closing ranks” mentality within the Black community,were authority figures,such as church leaders and those within the civil rights movement,are to be obeyed and never criticised, and if your against Black authority your a “sell-out”. West uses as an example of when Supreme Justice Clarence Thomas was accused of sexual harrassment against Anita Hill in the early 90s. Despite Thomas being a hard-line conservative who criticised liberal policies designed to fight racism, Black politicians of all stripes and Black church leaders defended him, and criticised Anita Hilll’s Blackness.Basically, this incident was very similar to what is going on with Brown: Black male public figure does somthing disgusting, but the Black community looks the other way and shames the Black woman victim, and the Black male public figure gets up scot free. As a Black gay men, its disgusting.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 6:12 pm ¶

29. Tara K. wrote:

    I’m amazed at the number of people on here who are still maintaining the attitude of I’m-not-gonna-judge-Chris-Brown-until-I-know-for-sure…

    What ELSE DO YOU need to KNOW?!?

    You saw the photos of her showing that she was beaten.

    You saw photos of him that he was not.

    You read the affidavit giving her account; you read that he had no response, no objection, no defense. How much more do you need?

    I just don’t see a need to still assume his innocence. In lack of evidence, yes, but in light of overwhelming evidence — what’s the point? What are you really upholding?

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 7:11 pm ¶

30. taliba wrote:

    “the TMZs and the Perez Hiltons REALLY defended her” NOT out of love or concern for Rihanna but because thy enjoy vilifying any black male when they get the opportunity. I agree with Queen B.
    This would not have been a story if this was a white couple. Eminem beat up his wife, and wrote a song about killing her! These people were in a rush to judge and put away a 19 y/o who ought to have a chance to learn a better way. But no,the concensus with Headline News, crybaby Perez and TMZ was to put him unde the jail. They were mad at Rihanna because she refused to be their pawn and be the poster child for domestic abuse.
    I think Chris got the sentence he should have. What really makes those “haters” mad is he’s still going to be rich and he still has people who will give him a chance to grow up change, and they’ll still buy his records.

    White boys get their chance to redeem themselves all the time. Now young Black ones have that chance every now and then!

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 9:03 pm ¶

31. Queen B wrote:

    Let me say this in response to Tara K who is wondering why people like me and others are chosing to withhold judgment. I guess since I am an attorney, I can be a little bit more objective and play devil’s advocate.

    1) the only thing the picture proves that Rihanna was in some kind of physical altercation; it does not tell me anything about the surrounding circumstances

    2)I do not recall seeing any photos of CB after the incident except for the video where he is being taken to the police station by his attorney in a black SUV where CB could not be seen so it is unclear whether he had any injuries

    3) As I said before the affidavit is not evidence- not admissible in court b/c it is hearsay; since there was no trial there is no way to know if her testimony in court under oath would have differed from her prior statement

    4)I would assume that CB was advised by his attorney to exercise his 5th Amendment right not to speak to the police which is why there was no official statement to the authorities; since there was no trial I do not know what defense CB would have raised;

    5) I would not assume that the evidence against CB was “overwhelming” because the prosecution did not present their case to a jury because of the plea.

    It is really easy to hate CB and want him to spend years in prison than to sit back and question everything and assume nothing. The plea did not surprise me because so many people have already made up their minds based on nothing more than an illegally leaked picture and inadmissible affidavit.

    I agree with Taliba- I can’t ignore the racial element when it comes to the media’s coverage of this case. Tommy Lee attacked Pamela Anderson and went to jail for it and Charlie Sheen attacked his girlfriend many years ago and their careers continued so I do not understand while CB is being held to a higher standard even though he was only 19 at the time and had no prior criminal record.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 11:19 pm ¶

32. tresome wrote:

    “And it’s interesting how brothers get concerned about their reputations, and women are concerned about staying alive.”

    Sometimes concern about your reputation and staying alive are one in the same when your falsely accused of a crime and sitting at the defense table facing time.

    I know this is not Brown’s situation, but I don’t think men are so out of line for being meh went it comes to the state’s evidence being used as “the facts.” Given the number of folks being exonerated and released from prison based on DNA evidence, even convicted rapists, I think big man’s point is well taken.

    Posted 24 Jun 2009 at 11:51 pm ¶

33. ashlynn wrote:

    I have found the whole situation to be completely saddening, first off.

    I do think there was some sort of altercation that involved Rhianna being aggressive towards Chris. Trust and believe, I DO NOT condone his actions whatsoever, but being a young person and having seen my share of relationship dynamics, there is a lot of confrontation going on where both parties have equally been aggressive and/or violent toward each other. Though I dislike when people- especially older folks- refer to it as “young love” or “he’s young” and things like that, it boils down to much of that. Youth relationships can be especially volatile, and unfortunately, there are many domestic violence incidents that not only go unreported, but go misunderstood. I had a friend who was dating an older guy(he was at least mid 20’s, while she was about 14) and she would joke about how he’s pull her buy her hair or choke her. Though we all made it clear to her that that was not acceptable, eventually we sadly ended up just laughing about it, because we knew of no way to deal with it. As with my friend, I would not be surprised to know that Rhianna and Chris have had their share of arguments where things became at least mildly physical.

    Without a doubt, TMZ and Perez Hilton have definitely worsened this issue. Calling names like Chris-Beat-Her-Down and making false(and certainly racist) accusations about using a lookalike to taunt Rhianna have not only been completely derogatory and inexcusable, but have also impeded the progress of making some real headway in domestic violence education among young people.

    Ladies and gentlemen, it is time for some real talk.

    Ladies can be just as guilty in domestic violence incidents as men. Again, violence in relationships is general is UNACCEPTABLE, but in many cases both parties are abusers AND victims. However, you see more men being charged and focused on as the primary abusers for a few reasons:

    Strength: Though I am one of those girls who rejects the idea that women aren’t “fit to do men’s work,” chances are when a woman swings, it won’t have as much impact as if it were vice versa.

    Stigma: Many men would be highly reluctant to report domestic abuse because of the generally accepted stereotype that men do all the beating and women get all the battering.

    The “Baby Boy Effect”: Yes, let’s be honest: there are plenty of scenarios where a woman will slap, smack, throw and hissyfit a man to the high heavens because she knows that, because of the stereotype, he will be loathe to retaliate. And if he does retaliate, you get a Taraji-style mask of shock that yes, he actually hit you back after you threw everything but the kitchen sink at him!

    Many people will not like to read that, but those are certainly truths that have been long swept under the rug because they do not fit the primary agenda/focus/goal of the groups who promote domestic violence awareness. Am i saying that Rhianna did any of these things? No. However, you must take into account that while chances are this was sadly an unprovoked(and vicious) unilateral attack, chances are equally great that there was some sort of provocation that preceded the attack, whether directly or long before.

    Also, one thing that people fail to take into account is that Chris grew up witnessing domestic violence. This is a crucial factor. Young men who experience domestic abuse in some form will express a sort of fight-or-flight response to a show of violence. Some will resist that behavior. And some will be confronted with that behavior and mimic what they have seen as children- not because they WANT to, but because it’s what they KNOW. There is a certain element of a lack of control there, in which one unfortunately resorts to what they saw “solve the problem” perhaps many times before. Here was a chance to use this situation to bring the education of young men AND women to the forefront in regards to dealing with domestic violence on ALL fronts, not just the one-sided version of a battered woman we get on our Health class pamphlets.

    That said, I cannot say that the coverage here was necessarily racist(save for some of TMZ’s antics). Perhaps if Chris were a few inches taller, a few pounds heavier, a few shades darker, I would not hesitate to protest the fact that clearly there is a sort of “big scary black man” stigma going on here. Therefore, I can only say I believe that reactions were more motivated by the fact that both Chris and Rhianna are major stars, both beloved, and both young- and as a result, the incident has resonated far deeper with youth and youth-oriented culture than say, the older couple on the 5PM news. All in all, I still feel that there is an opportunity here to affect change amongst many people that would not have happened before, and despite the saddening nature of what happened, it happened for a reason that can- with our work- be for the better.

    Posted 25 Jun 2009 at 3:09 am ¶

34. c.n.edaw wrote:

    Queen B- do you really believe Chris Brown’s career is over? I certainly don’t. I think the first danceable song to hit the radio and he’s back “in” just like R. Kelly, especially if he keeps his nose clean.

    Much like Queen B is an attorney and sees these things differently, as someone who works in the media– I have to disagree with people who say the media has not covered white male celebrities involved in similar dust ups.

    All the tabloids and entertainment shows covered Eminem’s travails with his wife, especially E! news and MTV.

    Now, were they seen as the poster children for a young couple dealing with domestic abuse or any of their other numerous issues?

    No, but I would say that had just as much to do with Eminem and his wife already being seen as “troubled’ and “white trash” from the minute they came on the scene; whereas Chris Brown and Rihanna were seen as clean cut All American kids, who just happened to be black.

    The story was made that more intriguing just because they appeared to in fact be poster children for up and coming stars who had role model qualities. Both had endorsement deals out the yang for that reason alone. Something not THAT common for young black R&B stars, even today.

    I think Brandy might be the last black female teen r&b star who got as many teen magazine covers and endorsement deals as Rihanna and that was in the 90’s. I can’t think of a young black male star put in the same light as Brown–even Usher didn’t have the endorsements he had.

    Let’s face it ! Eminem is also a rapper, and misosgynistic behavior is largely accepted as a given in rappers, white OR black!

    Ditto on Charlie Sheen. He’s had a bad boy rep also well documented in tabs. Remember his divorce from Denise Richards and before that his association with Heidi Fleiss? It was all over the enterainment media and in some mainstream news when the Fleiss story was big.

    As usual, people have a short memories. Back when R. Kelly had his troubles everyone claimed no white celebrity would be so damaged by those kinds of claims. I was among those reminding them of Jerry Lee Lewis and Roman Polanski, two white men, one of whom had to leave the freaking country! R. Kelly still lives in the USA and last time I checked, his music was still selling well.

    Frankly, I believe if Michael Jackson, weren’t otherwise so wacky, and he had produced some decent music in the last decade, those molestation allegations would be only a passing thought.

    I would never venture to defend TMZ , and I don’t know what their intentions were in defending Rihanna, if they did.

    However, it is so rare that ANYONE defends the honor or integrity of a black woman in any forum; I am surprised that so many are so quick to assume people did so…. NOT because they thought Brown was truly guilty, but instead because obviously all those people just want to villify a black man.

    This is where I am seeing shades of O.J. again. I also see people ignoring celebrity and the ability that affords you to deal with and move past these sorts of things.

    Chris Brown is a rich celebrity, not poor down on his luck “Tyrone Brown ” who in the same situation might be subject to injust treatment and not have the means to defend himself or recoup any real or perceived losses.

    Posted 25 Jun 2009 at 10:26 am ¶

35. Joy wrote:

    @ The Hippo

    “A ‘Real Man’ as told by the church and the bible, is supposed to be able to fight,defend and support his family, and control his woman or women. The womens only job is to be demure and shut up,according to the church.”

    This attitude is espoused by some churches, but let’s not give all black churches a bad name.
    It’s also not Biblical that the man is to control his wife (being the head does not necessairly mean be controlling or dominating). Instead the Bible tells husbands to love their wives just as Christ loved the church and Chirst loved the church so much he died for us (Ephesians 5:22-32). So, actually the Bible is letting husbands know they need to be on their love game, big time.

    Posted 25 Jun 2009 at 11:25 am ¶

36. DivergentDana wrote:

    “However, you must take into account that while chances are this was sadly an unprovoked(and vicious) unilateral attack, chances are equally great that there was some sort of provocation that preceded the attack, whether directly or long before.”

    How are the chances “equally great”? Is there any proof of this, and furthermore, is there any proof that the two are equally common, in general?

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:04 pm ¶

37. DivergentDana wrote:

    “Maybe it starts with them not seeing women as people but as things. So they think they’re standing up for black people! ”

    It’s kind of strange. We’re sometimes seen as second-rate blacks and second-rate women because one is believed to dilute the other… this results in the treatment of black women (by people of both genders and sometimes other races), as if we’re merely support staff for the real black people, valued because we often make, raise, and love black men, but not because we’re black, too. In cases where there’s a black female victim and a black male defendant, that hierarchy can bare its claws, especially when the man is deemed a valuable member of the community/someone who “beat the odds”. In this case, both people were very successful. However, I believe that Rihanna has experienced more crossover success while Chris Brown has (hopefully, now “had”) a blacker following, and that was also one of the reasons that I think that TMZ, PH, and the like came out on the side of Rihanna, or even covered the story, for that matter. It also fits, not perfectly, but fits, into the “violent black rapper” narrative, because (the most popular subgenre of) R&B and rap are so closely associated these days, people who aren’t fans of either genre may understandably conflate the two.

    “I think that all allegations/reports should be taken seriously, because when they are not what message are sending to the victims.”

    I agree wholeheartedly. “Court” and “the court of public opinion” are different, and there are different standards. People who say “innocent until proven guilty” to folks who aren’t jurors remind me of people who cry about their 1st Amendment rights when someone bans them from an Internet forum/blog for saying something that was against the rules or because someone calls their opinion wrong, stupid, or any thing with an -ist. In both cases, “That doesn’t mean what you think it means, & it doesn’t cover what you think it covers.”

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:31 pm ¶

38. DivergentDana wrote:

    “White boys get their chance to redeem themselves all the time. Now young Black ones have that chance every now and then!”

    Why can’t both be considered pariahs, instead? Surely, that option’s not off of the table?

    Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 5:34 pm ¶

39. ashlynn wrote:

    DiveregentDana,

    What I am trying to highlight here is that domestic violence education is one sided. Like it or not, it’s a two way street. I think too many people assume that once you say a woman has some role in a domestic violence issue, you are blaming the woman for everything that happened in its entirety. Not so. What people fail to realize is that in many more relationships than surveyor and the like fail to acknowledge, whether through opinion or tangible evidence, is that women beat on men, too. Physically and verbally. Just because it may not show as gruesomely as TM photos allow, the marks are there.

    Posted 29 Jun 2009 at 1:39 am ¶