Black man/White woman interracial relationships: Breaking down my judgment

By Guest Contributor Ryan, originally published at Cheap Thrills

heidiseal Over the past couple months, I’ve been surrounding myself with people who all have something in common: they’re the least judgmental people I’ve ever known. They’re: 1) unconditionally understanding and compassionate of any given situation – no matter how crazy, weird, or counter-culture it may be, and 2) TOTALLY open about their own lives, in all their outrageous and extreme glory.

How refreshing. To escape the “right” and “wrong”, “good” and “bad”, “black” and “white”.

Which brings me to my point.

During a conversation with one such non-shockable friend, the topic of interracial relationships arose. As I began discussing my own perceptions and thoughts on the subject, something became appallingly clear:

I am judgmental.

Here’s the bare-bones, no-holds-barred confession: I am shamefully judgmental of Black man/White woman interracial relationships. When I see such a couple, I immediately jump to the conclusion that the Black man is trying to prove something and the White woman is trying to piss off her family. I lump the couple into a category, with no desire to dig deeper or even accept their union.

So during this conversation, my friend commented, simply: “Why do you care what choices these other people are making?”

The remark struck me. Yes, why DO I care? I’ve thought hard about this. I’m sure when my Black man/White woman aversion took shape, it sprung from jealousy. When I was a little girl, I never knew my true worth (what kid does?). I was so jealous all the time. Of White females, because, in my eyes, they’d always have something special in their pale skin that I could never have, no matter how straight I blow-dried my hair or how blond I dyed it. And of guys (all guys, but mostly Black guys), because they were always the most popular and the funniest… and most of them liked girls who weren’t boyish and gawky and frizzy-haired like me.

As time passed, I (seemingly) got over my childhood jealousies. But also, the “Black man/White woman relationship aversion” became almost second nature. An instinctual eye-roll. And coming from the Black girl who digs White guys… what a perfect storm of cutting irony.

So now I take a step back. I see many of my White girlfriends entering into wonderful, loving relationships with Black men. I see happiness and strength. And when I see a couple that I would generally stereotype cuddling on the subway or holding hands through Downtown Crossing, I really have to check myself. Why spend time passing judgment on things I don’t even try to understand? Why do I continuing to do this, with the roiling emotions of a 3rd-grader?

I’ve got it. The reality is that I’m NOT over my jealousies. And the problem exists in my own head, not the interracial union. Which is a tad upsetting, but also… again, refreshing.

Because I can’t understand all the complexities of others. But I can accept them. And, even better, I can bask in my God-given joy of delving deep and understanding my own complexities.

There’s no place for judgment in self-discovery. So I’m kicking all those judgmental thoughts to the curb.

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Comments

Chris Diaz wrote:

If I may, I don’t think you’re completely out of line to wonder about this. In my opinion, two influences are SOMETIMES influential in these relationships:

1) Racism and the media – our society tells us that a white woman is the best a man can get, in the mind of a black man who carries around internalized racism, being with a white woman is a boost to self-worth (in the long run, of course, it doesn’t work out that way if you started a relatinship for the wrong reasons to begin with)

2) Feminism – There are different types of feminism, but they all seem to agree that the most dominant, oppressive force has been white men. In America anyways, from the historical perspective, the only force more dominant than a white woman is a white man. I think that SOMETIMES contributes to white women being turned off by white men (along with the sometimes real sense of entitlement white men have)

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:30 am ¶
malted_tea wrote:

That this is still a conversation baffles me when it comes to adults in a consenting relationship.

Perhaps it’s because my mother – Jamaican-born – is married to a Canadian with Scottish ancestry, but I can’t wait for the day when a young interracial couple can walk passed me without “checking in.”

The “check in?” It’s that quick look that I get from a lot of the young black and white couples as if to say “Yeah, and?” or “But we love each other!” or even “Is this OK?”

Dang. Do what you want to do with your love. It’s nothing to do with me. Treat each other well. Respect each other’s history, culture and baggage then get to living your life.

Last point/comment: That new movie “Dance Flick” had a TV spot that included one of the main Black characters talking to his white girlfriend.

A group of Black girls walk by – completely unaware of the existence of the other two (not ignoring but just into their own conversation) – and the male character gets all loud and gesturing with “(Oh oh Black girls…) I DON’T KNOW YOU!”

That just about sums up my outsider just happening to look in view with the young interracial couples. Older interracial couples, and I know a few, seem to have their stuff together on this issue.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:53 am ¶
Wendi Muse wrote:

this is a great article. it’s important for us to assess the reasons for our judgment, racism, stereotyping, prejudice, etc in order to reach a point at which we can overcome it.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:15 am ¶
Fiqah wrote:

For what it’s worth, I liked this article. But since 90 percent of wisdom is pattern recognition, I know what’s coming.

FIQAH’S THREAD PREDICTIONS: Wednesday Morning Edition

1.) Most commonly used comment preface: “As a Black man, I…”

2.) Second most commonly-used comment preface “As a Black woman, I…”

3.) Number of times Editrix will have to refer to mod policy per 100 comments: 10

4.) Number of total comments: a gajillion

5.) Number of times “Black women” and “bitter” will be used per 100 comments: at least 12

6.) Number of times “Black men” and “trifling” will be used per 100 comments: 7

7.) Number of times the word “female” will be used instead of “woman” in reference to Black women per 100 comments: 57

8.) Number of times someone will be accused of fetishizing, inadertently reveal that they are fetishists, air their personal grievances, attack others, feel attacked, or otherwise be misunderstood: too many to count

Somebody should do a BINGO card for this.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:24 am ¶
erre wrote:

Great realization, that takes you to examine your own views of others and question your prejudices.

Chapeau!

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:25 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@Fiqah –

Oh no, I’m back in the threads today. And homie ain’t playing that.

You observations on how these threads normally go is 100% correct. But this mod is evil. Racialicious is for discussion, not your own personal grievances, so I just delete these things now. A mod note is the warning, acting like you have a right to post gets you banned. (The sad thing is that most folks don’t need this reminder and the ones who do will ignore it.)

Ah well. Y’all enjoy the convo and I’ll wait on the hate mail.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:33 am ¶
Kandeezie wrote:

Why I care – because I have to work extra hard to be seen as desirable by both black and white men (which severely limits my options). Because I got, all too often, the “you’re the nicest/coolest/normalest black girl I’ve met so far”.

So, seeing as it’s confession time, it bothers me of how race is constructed and how it affects me, especially while dating. I don’t focus on the people who I see on the street, because they’re just reflecting society’s values – they didn’t create them. I focus on the fact that no matter how nice or cute or smart or whatever I am, I have to compete with people who run the desirability race with a significant head start.

I have the same reaction every time I read a new study that says “White names get more call-backs for interviews” except when dating, changing my name won’t do much for the body I was born in and the body people judge me by.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:35 am ¶
Mammith wrote:

@Fiqah – That’s hilarious! Especially considering how right you are.

Everytime something on interracial relationships comes up people seem to get mad crazy about it. I suppose in our heavily racially-hierarchical society such an issue will unavoidably irritate many.

I don’t really agree with the stance that it’s never any of your business. Meaning that while most of the time if you know an interracial couple you shouldn’t care, sometimes there is something messed-up going on.

I know of a south Asian girl (friend of a friend) who only goes after white men and says she prefers the ‘Aryan look’. Does this not make you feel ick? I’m not telling anyone to hate on the girl but if she were my friend I’d have to ask her whats up at some point.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:38 am ¶
Beth wrote:

I love this post, most of all for the courage of self-examination.

As much as conversations about interracial relationships often go to abstract concepts, and those forces are important, I believe there is value in remembering that each relationship is simultaniously individual people enjoying life together.

Oh, and @Latoya
Rock On.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:44 am ¶
N wrote:

I have often had similar reactions. I found myself complaining about a music video and the casting of women who were uniformly beige or triguena. I looked in the mirror, sighed, saved the post as a draft and went to bed since I seemed to have forgotten what my beef was.

When I later thought about it, what irritates me is the whole color hierarchy and believe that whiter is better. EVEN if the women in the videos I was watching all looked rather like ME, it bothered me.

It bothered me on behalf of women who get ignored for women who look like me. It bothered me for me, because I’m a woman not a goal. It bothered me for me because you can ALWAYS go lighter, so I have to deal with it as well.

In the Americas and around the world there is a history of men marrying lighter to “improve” the race. And for black women, seeing black men with white women often comes across as “Another one who hates me and thinks I’m ugly and inferior”.
So there are legitimate reasons to be irritated.

But one should not, IMO, automatically conclude that every black man with a white woman is with her because he looks down on black women.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:53 am ¶
Fiqah wrote:

@The Editrix: YAY! I’m gonna go make popcorn now and wait. (And seriously, if 5 of the 8 things pop up, I’m yelling “BINGO!”)

@Mammith: LOL! Yeah, I’m a curmudgeon now.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:55 am ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

regarding number 1: 1) Racism and the media – our society tells us that a white woman is the best a man can get, in the mind of a black man who carries around internalized racism, being with a white woman is a boost to self-worth (in the long run, of course, it doesn’t work out that way if you started a relatinship for the wrong reasons to begin with)

Exactly. As a woman of colour, I’ll admit that I’ve always felt great resentment and anger toward white women when they date men of colour, because it’s like the man is saying “HEY, I’M WITH A WHITE WOMAN BECAUSE I THINK SHE’S MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE THAN YOU DARK SKINNED FEMALES!”

I know that’s NOT the case. I’ve met interracial married couples who are really in love and who truly care about each other, it’s not about sex or racial fetishness, or trying to show off…

the truth is, I’m less judgemental toward itnerracial relationships with POC of different backgrounds (like a Chinese woman dating a black man, or an Indian man dating a Latina, etc).

I’m really trying hard not to be a jerk and an asshole toward POC-white interracial relationships, really, I swear. I’ve had to force myself to admit that I’m judgemental and that I need to open my mind and accept that white-POC interracial relationships are just as valid as POC-POC interracial relationships (or monoracial relationships).

this is a great, honest post.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:00 am ¶
Xey wrote:

I often feel the same way. I am an A-A woman. I have lots of friends and family who date/marry interracially into this sort of couple (BM, WW). I’m trying to get over it. I got into it with a white girlfriend of mine (who pretty much only dates men of color) over this before. What she said about why she dates interracially probably cannot be repeated here. I said that I don’t blame Black women for having some contempt for White women who exclusively date Black men. Especially when there are a lot of Black men who seem to have contempt for Black women, i.e. thinking Black women are “bitter” (as Fiqah said) or “have an attitude problem” – I’ve actually heard this! And where I am (The South), it’s quite rare to see it the other way around (WM, BW). I’ve told myself, “If it were a bit more balanced, I wouldn’t be bothered by it so much.” As a general rule, I don’t care about dating/marrying interracially, but I would like for the playing field to be more even. And I think that it is not because of the things that Kandeezie said.

@Kandeezie – exactly!

@Chris Diaz – I think you bring up a valid point, especially with the feminism deal.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:05 am ¶
Liz in Boston wrote:

“when I see a couple that I would generally stereotype cuddling on the subway or holding hands through Downtown Crossing”

Heh. Sounds like you could very well have seen me and my fella, if I’m guessing your location right. We get all sorts of strange reactions sometimes. But we’ve been together many years and I understand there are some good reasons for people to be uncomfortable with the black man/white woman configuration in general. It’s how people treat us individually that really matters. The way we think of it, you don’t know me, you don’t know us. Generally when people interact with us as a couple, they get a sense of how much we care for each other and how good we are for each other, and that it isn’t just a “sex thing” or a “rebellion thing” and that I’m not a trophy of any sort. It’s also on us not to be obnoxious about being somehow “more special” for being interracial and on me not to be the overcompensating white girl trying to prove how down she is. (I’ve seen this in other couples sometimes, and it is a pitfall to avoid.) Anyway, I was just going to say that it’s good to see this topic being discussed. Thanks for writing about it.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:08 am ¶
Yonah wrote:

@Fiqah: Damn. That’s way too funny, and painful because true. And Latoya: good luck!

I liked this article, too, if only because of the way the author is engaging in some serious bias-related introspection. 99% of people are totally incapable of that (or their reflection goes something like “Why do I still think this? Oh yeah, because I’m RIGHT”). It takes intelligence and ovaries of steel, and to get such a good article out of it to boot..?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:10 am ¶
Eva wrote:

I love this article. I’m 49 and yes, life is MUCH nicer when you put down the baggage, realize you can’t change another person, and the only person you can change is yourself. Whenever I do that, I find myself enjoying life.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:31 am ¶
PureGracefulTree wrote:

Thank you for your honesty. It is tremendously difficult to own up to our prejudices, particularly in race-related issues where we PoC are so often put in the position of teacher that we end up thinking that we do get it all, or at least should get it all.

I have similar negative judgments about Asian woman / White man relationships, even though I’ve been in one for over 11 years. I tend to think the white guy is just satisfying some sort of fetish, and the Asian woman is using the white guy as a racial status-maker. Why can’t I believe that other couples have the same “genuine love” that my husband and I share?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:49 am ¶
AC wrote:

Oh God, I hate to say it but I know how you feel – as a white woman who lives in Japan where all the “gaijin” men hook up with Japanese girls, and although I am very into Japanese men, it’s not very mutual – between having to explain to men here that no, we do not all have gigantic, gaping vaginas to accommodate those huge American Penises, and getting comments like “American women are too strong, that’s why you have so many gay men,” I often find myself in a similar position as you. Even though I know better, I constantly catch myself thinking horrid, hypocritical thoughts every time I see a Japanese girl and non-Japanese man walk down the street hand-in-hand — when all it really is is bitterness that 99% of the time, you see a white girl with a Japanese guy, she’s a hostess getting some customer to buy her a new bag. My guy friends get love notes, I get “how much?” from old men on the street. But that’s not the fault of the couples I see on the street. And thinking that way has basically turned me into an adult version of the nerdy kid sitting on the sidelines at the high school dance, not bothering to ask anyone out becasue @they wouldn’t like me anyway.” It’s an embarrassing struggle to get over.

But I have to admit, I kind of feel better knowing it’s not just me.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 11:12 am ¶
aimerrouge wrote:

AC–> I think you should contribute an article about your experiences. How did you end up in Japan? Do you plan on staying?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 11:39 am ¶
madelinek wrote:

Ok…I didn’t expect to have anything to add to this conversation, but having lived as a white gaijin in Japan for a couple of years myself I have to say that I don’t think it’s necessarily the same deal. Sure, what you are describing sucks. I noticed the same thing when it came to wanting to date guys, both foreign and Japanese. But for me at least, I knew and always knew that I would leave Japan and return to the US, where I would not have to deal with it anymore. The author of this post doesn’t have that option.

To be fair, maybe you don’t either – I’m making the assumption that you’re in Japan temporarily, which was the case for most gaikokujin I knew. I think if you’re there permanently it’s a different thing, and it’s a more direct parallel. I think my occasional experiences of anti-gaijin bias in Japan help me realize some small portion of what people of color go through in the US every day, but beyond that I really feel uncomfortable equating the two.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 11:46 am ¶
Evan wrote:

I am still judgmental even at 38 years of age. Cross-racial dating relationships are based on curiosities, fantasies, and fetishes. The whole love and romance thing comes later. We think with our hormones first.

I wonder how many people deliberately seek out someone of another race for dating and sexual relations. I bet the number is pretty high–and getting higher in diverse societies such as in United States.

Also, fetishes and fantasies have a permanent hold on people. If a white female breaks up with a black male, the chances are that she will seek another black male for dating and relationships. If a white male divorces a woman of Asian descent, he will likely look for another Asian female partner. We can’t escape our fantasies and fetishes.

I am a white male who finds females of color more attractive and interesting than white females. I have fetishes going through my mind when I see a black woman, a Latina or an Asian woman. When I see a white woman, I feel nothing. White females are not as physically attractive to me. That’s the fantasy/fetish aspect taking over. It’s also a serious case of racial discrimination–even if it’s against my own race.

In conclusion, this notion that love is color blind is complete bull shit to me.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:19 pm ¶
merq wrote:

Great post. I’m glad someone finally addressed the hypocritical attitude some women take regarding interracial dating.

I remember repeatedly banging my head on the keyboard after reading a past post about black-white pairings wherein the author commented on how Obama gets much love because of his love for a brown-skinned woman. She went on to discuss the interracially-dating members of her family, and basically came to the conclusion that (paraphrasing) “we love when black men love us, we love when white men love us… I guess black women just love men who really love black women!”

What really bothered me was that the author never extended that same logic to BM/WW pairings… Could it be, perhaps, that black men also just love to be loved? That’s an argument I so seldom see raised.

For the record (not that it should matter either way), I’m a black man who mostly dates black women.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:21 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:

I’m glad someone brought up the fact that perception’s of one’s desirability can shift according to one’s location. An Ethiopian friend of mine who is considered average-looking in her country is approached (across crowded platforms, against traffic signals, in the rain…) by all kinds of men. And even my nuttin’ special self stopped traffic in in Paris and Amsterdam. Now, while a lot of that attention was the “Ooh! Exotic!” variety, some of it wasn’t. I dunno, I just feel like Black women in America learn the whole “less desirable” meme so well that we forget that there’s a whole world out there.

***End of “Be Like Fiqah, Date the Rainbow” speech.***

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:22 pm ¶
madelinek wrote:

@AC: You know what I should have started off by saying? Go you, for sharing your feelings about all this…I’m not trying to be disrespectful of your experiences, I just think this is a situation where the individual level (which sucks) and the institutional level diverge.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:23 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:

we do not all have gigantic, gaping vaginas to accommodate those huge American Penises

@AC: WTF? Someone actually said this to you?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:29 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@Merq –

Look again. The same author wrote both posts.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:34 pm ¶
[dave] wrote:

@LDP/merq ….. sputter laugh snort. I guess it goes to show that folks’ ideas evolve and that similar sentiments (or at the least un-exclusive sentiments) in different contexts can inspire one place and offend in another…

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:46 pm ¶
Ruchama wrote:

I remember a few years ago seeing a black Jewish guy with a profile on JDate that specifically said that if you were just trying to freak out your father, don’t bother messaging him. I wondered how many white women had dated him for that reason, that he felt like he needed to put it right in his profile.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:48 pm ¶
Eathan wrote:

Great job. I’ve date outside of my race most of my adult life. And it has nothing to do with any negative ideas about black women. I have experienced a few questions from cousins when they were having issues in their relationships. Everyone has issues that you have to deal with. I’m glad you’ve have friends who allow you to think about your feelings.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:54 pm ¶
Lisa J wrote:

Although a little part of me understands the whole feeling rejected thing when you see BM/WW couples and the what is wrong with me thing but if I make eye contact, and often they avoid my eyes, unless I’m just in a foul mood I try to smile or at least look pleasantly at them. I know they get lots of flack from other black women so I don’t like to to contribute. I figure it doesn’t have anything to do with me on one level. On another level it is sort of part of the, black women being at the bottom of the totem pole and the fact that for the most part, most of the black guys I’ve gone to school with (in mostly white schools) usually only went for the white girls or super, super pretty black girls and that left me out in the cold and the white guys of course wanted nothing to do with nappy headed me.

I’m ashamed to admit it but usually when I see a BW with a WM, my first thought (unless he is really unattractive) is “how did she get him” or wow. Horrible. It is hard.

Although, I had a white friend once who was a brunette who would just GO OFF about blonde women (which was funny b/c later I found out one of her sisters was blonde so maybe that contributed to it) and she had dated a black guy for awhile and mentioned the flack she got. I sort of explained to her why lots of black women get mad about those pairings and she kind of likened it to how some brunettes feel like blondes get all the attention, suck all the oxygen out of the air and it breeds resentment. Of course, she can die her hair blonde (might look silly with such dark eyebrows, but plenty of white ladies do that) and we can’t dye our skin white.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 12:55 pm ¶
jen* wrote:

um…Evan?

Cross-racial dating relationships are based on curiosities, fantasies, and fetishes. The whole love and romance thing comes later. We think with our hormones first.

That’s definitely one of those sentiments that speaks more about yourself than it actually applies to others. Everybody doesn’t get involved with someone who looks different than they do because of a curiosity/fantasy/fetish.

I think that’s what the writer’s talking about: that she was telling herself that her ideas about the reasons people get into IR relationships were *the actual reasons* they were in them. Which isn’t always easy to see or possible to know.

But then again, perhaps this is one of those TNTC moments Fiqah was referring to.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:03 pm ¶
Michelle_2 wrote:

This is a great post! It’s lovely and heartwarming to see someone looking inward at what needs to be changed; that’s a hard and humbling thing to do.

We’re all screwed up by our racist society, and everyone is at a different place on the road to enlightenment and change. I think it’s important (hard as hell, but important) to find the line between examining and deconstructing and fighting racism and racist behaviors, and having compassion for the individual human beings who are traveling along with us.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:12 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:

Like others, I really admire and appreciate your honesty here, Ryan. That is some bare bold stuff up there.

@malted_tea
Gah. The check in. Now that I find offensive. I am not interested in whomever is on your arm – be happy, be safe, be free. When passing a BM/WM couple on the street now I don’t even know where to put my eyes – I’m afraid they’re going to assume I’m judging them or am filled with jealous bitter black woman rage or . . . I don’t know.

I am the BW in a BW/WM coupling and hope I don’t do the check-in.

@ Fiqah
Location, location, location for real. Even moving to another state can change the perception of one’s desirability. Hell, moving from one neighborhood to another can change things.

@ Evan
You’d be hard pressed to find one romantic relationship, of any kind, that does not involve either curiosity, fantasy or fetishization of some kind. Just one. Let’s include same gender couplings just to give the quest a fighting chance.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:17 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:

That should be BM/WW. It doesn’t seem to hold for BM/WM pairings for me.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:19 pm ¶
tpear wrote:

I think the reason most of us stop and stare or are bothered by the sight of a black man with a white woman is because of the societal message that white women are the ultimate trophy. Now, whether we believe that or are offended by that, is two different issues. Overall, however, I think that most of us react in this knee jerk fashion, but quickly check ourselves, remembering that we don’t know this couple, and therefore cannot judge. Maybe they’re soulmates, maybe they’re experimenting. In the end, it only affects them. Which is fine with me.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:24 pm ¶
JD/ formerly J wrote:

It is funny I had a similar epiphany.
I spent Val’s Day in Cambridge and didnt see any Black women out on dates and just when I was getting bitter I got hit on by an Iranian dude. The funny thing is I didnt realise he was hitting on me until he invited me out for a drink. I was so oblivious because I had my woe-is-me no-one wants me thing going…..eh…I realise that there really is no forcing it. It happens where it happens……My thing now is- If you like it then I love it…..
If the intentions at the heart of any relationship are flimsy, it just has a way of not working out. So when I see any successful relationship of any configuration, I figure the pair must really want to be there to make it work….

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:28 pm ¶
Ryan Barrett wrote:

@Merq
Hey there! It’s Ryan, the author of this post and the other one you referenced. You make a great point –

“perhaps, that black men also just love to be loved? That’s an argument I so seldom see raised.”

You’re right, I didn’t discuss that in the first post at all. But recently I’ve really been thinking a lot about a Black man’s perspective when it comes to dating. I’m trying to take down my judgment (and perhaps twinges of jealousy) and see things from a new perspective. I think gaining perspective is a process – one I plan to continue.

-Ryan

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 1:35 pm ¶
dee dee wrote:

I admire this article and the discussion that has ensued.

As a small addendum, I wonder if we stop and realize how much our society (in tandem with the media) has trained us to be more focused on what’s going on outside of and/or around us? I’m alert and interested and pay attention to my environment, but there’s no way that someone else’s love life can trump the interest I have in my own intimate relationships.

For me life begins from the inside out. I simply don’t have time to play into societal hierarchies. My two cents…

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 2:41 pm ¶
Elizabeth wrote:

Kudos to the author of this post. It’s difficult to admit racist thoughts, but it’s necessary to examine them to move forward.

What about multi-ethnic people in relationships? If a person is mixed and usually only dates partners from the same race as one of their parents, is it a fetish to wonder what it would be like to date someone who shares the other half of their ethnicity? Can you fetishize your own race?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 2:55 pm ¶
Tony wrote:

@Evan

If we ALL think with our hormones first, then that applies to ALL relationships, every last one, not just mixed ones.

Seriously, people date people they find sexually attractive.

Thus all relationships do begin due to a ‘fetish’ of some sort.

Love and Harmony come later in all relationships.
The entire idea of “Love at first sight” is a total myth.
It takes knowing a persons personality and attitude to really love them.
That only comes over a longer relationship, regardless of race.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 2:58 pm ¶
Ryan Barrett wrote:

@Elizabeth –
Neat comment! Truth be told, I’m actually biracial – half African-American and half Italian. And I’ve always had a thing for Italian men… and I don’t know why.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 3:07 pm ¶
Lindz wrote:

@Fiqah You are too right! I definitely started looking specifically for those things as I read the rest of the comments.

@Ryan I really enjoyed this post. I am the child of a BM/WW marriage and spent a lot of time explaining to people that yes my parents are happily married (for nearly 30 years now). I think it took a lot for you to write so openly and I appreciate being able to read the thoughts behind the eye-rolling I see so much.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 3:20 pm ¶
Brothel Poet wrote:

I am married to a white male, but still have fantasies about everybody! Sexual peak and all that! If God forbid, I was in the position of seeking another mate (well I probably wouldn’t cuz I cant imagine the trauma of dating) I am not sure what I would end up with. Someone nice. That’s what my husband has left me with. The feel and texture of someone super nice.
Before I was open to dating white guys, I also had a prejudice towards black men who dated white women. My father left his wife and us five kids and traveled all over Europe with his white wife. And while I won’t dis their relationship in all its complexity, we have written record of my father’s self loathing as a black man.
It took me a long while to deal with the fact that my husband was going to be my husband. I had to get over a lot of stuff and still have to.
However, I don;t think the poster’s issue was jealousy- in the usual sense. We are brainwashed everyday about how the most desirable traits for a woman to have are those belonging to white females. I don;t think those feelings should be written off as something as petty as jealousy, but more of a sense of cultural disenfranchisement. The sexuality of women of color has been diminished and exploited as we all know for a while now.
However, you still can’t know what is transpiring in someone else’ intimacy. You can be aware of your disenfranchisement and fight to become enfranchised, while at the same time understanding that sending out hatred and disapproval gets either you or them nowhere.
I think the solution is self affirmation. When I was auditioning in LA, i did something very symbolic when my agent told me that casting directors wanted “mulatto” girls. I did a collage of all the beautiful brownskinned blackskinned women I saw in magazines, books, etc. (this was some kind of voodoo becuz subsequently I was called for and cast in “pretty girl” roles) And loving any other young women you know, and helping them to love themselves- externally and internally.
My mom, who was understandably embittered by my father’s vow busting infidelity still was best friends with a white woman married to a black man. I think how amazing my mom was to never take her bitterness out on her friend (that I knew of) It was a lesson to me about the levels of healing, love and consciousness that can happen inside a person. I feel absolutely beautiful some days (Some days not) And I realize, with each passing day, that my beauty is only partly external. Femininity, sensuality, softness and attractiveness are truely a collusion of the internal and the external. When women of color realize that their absence from the mainstream media stems from the threatening nature of their complete allure, and when all women recognize the internal, uncommodifiable power of their sexual selves, is when we can all chill ax about other people’s unions.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 3:44 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:

*flips on auto-tune & slo-mo*

a-a-a-a-a-as a black man…..a-a-a-a-a-a-a-as a black woman

blame it on the f-e-e-e-e-etish

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 3:46 pm ¶
Chelsea wrote:

On my way to enlightenment and an anti-racist attitude, I have found myself questioning more and more my attraction to dark skinned men and why, and what that means for me in my current interracial relationship. All my life, since I can remember, I just didn’t find white blonde boys attractive. I always had a crush on the black men, the italian men, the hispanic men, but never did I have a crush on any many who looked Aryan. I don’t even find Brad Pitt all that attractive, a sentiment that makes all women I tell stutter with disbelief. I never thought it was fetishism, I just honestly don’t think I am attracted to men who look like they could be related to me, but maybe it’s internalized fetishism or fantasy?

I’ve been called a slut many times in my life, mostly stemming from the fact that in high school I dated a black guy. In my peers’ eyes, only slutty white girls go out with black guys. Even now, many years later, if I comment on a man’s attractiveness who isn’t white, my friend’s make comments about my jungle fever. It’s the favorite joke of everyone who knows me and my current boyfriend, who is Arab, to tell him that I need him for my last “fuck you” to my parents since college is ending for me. My parents, by the way, could not care less about who I date as long as he treats me well.

Furthermore, should I be worried that my current boyfriend is only dating me for status or a fetish? We love each other and belong together, but he does remark on my “whiteness” often, even if it’s a joke about me mispronouncing arabic words.

These thoughts keep plaguing me everytime I read a post about interracial relationships. Does anyone else feel this way?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 4:14 pm ¶
S's mom wrote:

I am curious on what people think about Heidi Klum’s comment on Oprah about what first attracted her to Seal. Something about seeing him in tight gym clothes and getting turned on because he had “a huge package.”
I was really disgusted by this and thought it was a terrible way to start a relationship. But hey, they are still together…..

On a different subject, AC wrote, “99% of the time, you see a white girl with a Japanese guy, she’s a hostess getting some customer to buy her a new bag.” How would you know? Have you done a survey? I honestly wonder what sorts of people you were hanging out with in Japan that you would be having these conversations????

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 4:18 pm ¶
brownstocking wrote:

@Fiqah: “I’m glad someone brought up the fact that perception’s of one’s desirability can shift according to one’s location. … I dunno, I just feel like Black women in America learn the whole “less desirable” meme so well that we forget that there’s a whole world out there.”

Tell the truth! When I went to London, I didn’t even realize (non-Black) people were flirting with me at first because it doesn’t happen for me in NorCal. It’s like I was a beat off in social situations. It felt bittersweet, because I thought, “Wow, I’m cute to somebody. Why does that make me want to cry?”

I think quite a few have made good points, but I don’t know if I would call what Ryan is grappling with “racism.” That could be another discussion for another day, though. I have a headache, so I could be missing some nuances, as well.

Living in a place known for multicultural pairings, I will say, I can easily greet a BW/WM couple, they seem a little more open in general. She’s going to make eye contact, we’ll smile, then I’ll acknowledge him with a nod. This is usually how I try to greet couples on the street, period. Always respect the sister first, then acknowledge the man. It’s how I was raised.

When I am faced with a BM/WW couple, invariably I am studiously ignored by the BM (before I can even smile to show “I’m not the angry one,” and then watch the WW cling to his arm a little. That, of course, is a trigger for me to then LOL at both. Then we’ve probably fulfilled the low expectations of each other. I might say “hello” if I am trying to channel my inner good girl, but that is such an effort for an introvert.

Kudos, Ryan.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 4:20 pm ¶
Zahra wrote:

Thank you for this post. It’s so nice to see something on this topic that is introspective. It’s inspiring, actually; like PureGracefulTree I’m working on my own assumptions about pairings of Asian women and white men.

I’m the white woman in a black woman/white woman relationship, and it’s hard for me to distinguish whether people hate us because of their assuptions about interracial relationships or because of homophobia. I am, however, sick of judgment. I’m not familiar with the “check-in” people discuss above; I am familiar with scanning the area for potential violence.

@Evan:

I disagree. Strongly. Particularly with one of your assumptions: that dating relationships spring primarily from sexual attraction. That generalization ignores relationships that begin as platonic friendships and those that rest primarily on a sense of social obligation. Personally, I’ve never felt the sexual spark without a sense of connection it takes time to develop; that you work otherwise doesn’t mean the entire world does.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 4:29 pm ¶
DimMati wrote:

@Fiqah: Funny & true.

All I can say is say if a person is that nosy to get into your relationship with other race or culture, tell them to get a freaking hobby.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 4:43 pm ¶
rebusrex wrote:

This is quite fascinating to read; I applaud the author in examining her initial reactions. I am multiracial as is most of my family. After reading this, I think I want to tell my biracial niece that her duty to her “race” is to free her self, accept that she has the right to decide who she loves, and as long as she chooses someone who makes her happy, I have her “back”. My wish is that black women see liberation as an expansion of choices and possibilities in all aspects of their lives and the power of self definition is rightfully back in their hands.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 4:59 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:

@gatamala:

::: gentle arm smack :::

Curmudgeons in the house.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 5:02 pm ¶
PPR_Scribe wrote:

“Why do you care what choices these other people are making?”

When we have the freedom to act on our choices, we ought to accept the fact that those choices are both personal and political. That goes for whoever proclaims their love (like, or lust) for who. No matter what our own reasons for being with any person, the fact of our being together and being “out” may have consequences.

We as a couple may be a trigger for others, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. I recall when I (Black American) and my husband (Black American) and two kids would walk out in public arm and arm in the Twin Cities area, other Black couples and especially older Black folks, coupled or not, would smile at us as if we were royalty. Once and older Black couple wearing HBI-logo’ed regalia in town for a family reunion actually crossed the street to speak to us and shake our hands.

What kind of country (and I can only speak for the USA) do we live in where Black-on-Black love is perceived as so rare? Why do so many have a love jones for the Obamas’ relationship (at least how they present it publicly)?

So, yes, it is not about any one BM-WW couple in particular. But a bunch of purely personal decisions can add up to a political trend. I question that this is a sign of racial progress when there still exists such a hierarchy of desirability in which certain races of women (and men) are perceived as more desirable than others–and when these figures are borne out by inter-racial marriage stats. If it truly was a post-racial dating wonderland, the figures would be a lot less lopsided.

I think the key to true conversations about IR dating/marriage generally is not for anyone to tell anyone else “What’s it to you?” I think we all would do well to own up to the historical legacies and current day remnants of those legacies–all of us including folks involved in IR relationships.

On the other hand, on a purely personal level, recognizing the triggering some experience at the sight of such couples also becomes political. If enough folks did this within their own hearts and minds it would also add up to political ramifications.

Of course there are those who will say, “It’s my life and my business. I have no intention of examining any history/my own baggage.” There’s no real conversation that can be done if that is the case, IMO, and that is where I think you see a lot of the usual shouting matches when this topic comes up.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 5:02 pm ¶
N wrote:

@S’s mom

Minefield!!

It is difficult, isn’t it? In black white pairings the discussion of sexuality can be an absolute minefield; every statement has to be second guessed and checked for hidden racism or prejudice.

A white partner/lover who expresses sexual attraction and appreciation for a black spouse has to worry that it will be taken as some sort of mandingo/a savage fantasy or something, lack of expression may lead to the black partner feeling unattractive.

When I realize that I can find a way to make ANY action or statement an act of subconcious racism, I just shrug and say,”I’m just gonna have to take their word for it this time”. LOL

Whats disgusting about finding a man intriguing because he has a large package? SOMETHING has to be the first thing you notice,and sometimes from there things develop.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 5:04 pm ¶
NSK wrote:

I feel ashamed that I have a similar gut reaction when I see the BM/WW pairing, and it’s been something that I’ve been trying to condition myself out of ever since it developed. The truth is I don’t make assumptions about white women wanting to piss off their parents, but I do take the stance of the oft-time mentioned thought that white women have been held to such a high standard in our society that black men feel like they’re moving up when they date/marry/hook-up with them.

The sad thing is about six years ago, I had no problem with the pairing. Issue only developed when I moved to the DC area where there was heavy BM/WW dating. At first I thought it was beautiful and cool–yay look, we’re all post-racial and stuff (thoughts of a young teenager). But after a while I noted that not only was there a high occurrence of BM/WW dating, black men exclusively dated white women. Literally my parents were the only black couple I ever saw when we went out in public, and literally my mother was the only black woman I saw in a relationship. I used to joke (bitterly) that the only time you saw a black woman with a black man was when she was friends with the white woman he was dating (unfortunately, this wasn’t entirely inaccurate).

I’ve begun the healing process, since then. I’ve realized in such situations that you are only a victim if you allow yourself to be one. The way those men and women decided to date has no personal effect on me, because I had and still have no interest in dating to begin with. As to the other women who were affected, they stopped waiting for the perfect black man and ended up dating all sorts of men (not just white). Ironically, this made black men interested in them again. Go figure…

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 5:14 pm ¶
itsdebatable wrote:

this was an interesting article to me as well. my father is west african and my mother is white and i know that part of the reason my father married my mother had nothing to do with love, it had to do with the greater “worth” he would have to the public and the greater “worth” his children would have. i realize now that this is why i have a negative reaction at times when i see black men with white women. it is a trait that i loathe about myself and have for the most part gotten over though. mainly because, where would i be without such unions??? the ironic part is that i have never put restrictions on race or ethnicity when it comes to who i date. loved the post and can relate to most of the content and comments. except i’ve never really doubted my worth because of my race/gender/socio-economic status.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 6:31 pm ¶
Michelle wrote:

Hey Fiquah!

Is it Bingo yet? I have been trying to keep count!

I just have to say that I am very impressed with the level of dialogue on this particular thread. It is amazing what happens when people start taking responsibility and at the same time allow themselves to be intensely vulnerable. When we are allowing it, there is a lot of compassion that can show up.

It is funny that you used the somewhat iconic image of Seal and Heidi. When they first started dating they were in some magazine, and I will admit that, while sitting in my stylist’s chair, I said something to the effect of “It could only happen to a White woman. Six months pregnant with another man’s baby and you can still get a Black man and that’s trifling. Seal wouldn’t have looked twice if she was Black”. And I was wrong for that, for sure. I don’t know him or his very smart and lovely wife.

But as someone mentioned before, many of our movies and television shows, and much of what we see mirrored in real life tells Black women that we are fine to be the best friend, the cook, the sassy mouthpiece, but that nobody wants to love us, not even Black men. For many Black females, not all, the darker you are, and the curlier your hair is, the less desirable you feel. It sometimes feels as though White women get to be pretty even if they are average. A Black woman can’t be average. If she is average, then she is automatically considered unattractive.

@ 7 “…I have to compete with people who run the desirability race with a significant head start.” Beautifully put!

Great post! And Fiquah, did I help out a little?

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 6:49 pm ¶
trooper6 wrote:

I think one of the tricky things about all of this is that we are judging by what we see. Which is one way of judging but…many things are lost.

For example. If I were walking down the street with a white woman…people might look at me and think…there is a brother dating a white woman. All that interracial dating..he’s dating her because society says white women are more beautiful…he’s dating her for … x…y…z. They might also be annoyed because I’m successful. I’m a professor, (just a few more pages away from my PhD y’all!), I’m successful, some folks say I’m handsome, I’m well adjusted, etc…some folks might get especially annoyed if a “person like me” dates “outside of the race.”

But here are things you may not know from looking at me. I’m biracial, the product of a WM/BW pairing. If dating a white woman is dating outside of my race, then so is dating a black woman. So I’m sort of in Catch-22 on that front…because I don’t follow Jim Crow era definitions of race that rely on one drop rules. I’m proud of my Black Heritage, but I’m also proud of my Ukrainian Jewish heritage. And both of those things inform my identity…that and growing up with an Italian-American step dad.

Another thing you wouldn’t know by looking at me. I’m transexual, and getting anyone to date me is really not that easy–being transexual also means I’m sterile…so I can’t get anybody pregnant…another hurdle. I’m also an atheist…and depending on where I’m living at the time…that may be a bigger hurdle than the transexuality. And I’m a big sci-fi nerd. So I have limited options.

Another thing to know about me. I grew up with very positive messages about black women and their attractiveness. That may have had something to do with growing up in the 70s, with having an amazing black mother…I don’t know…but people don’t only get one set of messages. There are larger cultural messages and subcultural messages and counter cultural messages.

At the moment I’m not dating anyone. In a few months I’ll be moving up to the Boston area to start my new Professor job–which is very exciting. And I don’t know who I’ll date, when I’ll date, if I’ll date. It may be a person of *insert whatever race/ethnicity you care to think of* — but the most important factor for me is not going to be–oh, white women are viewed as more attractive by society at large…or, I want to date a strong beautiful black woman like my mother, or whatever someone might imagine is going on in my head…it’ll be…will whoever I date respect my gender identity? Will the person I date not be creepy? Or be a republican? Or think I’m going to hell? Or be safe? Because what is not cool is opening up to someone and them telling you that you are a deceitful freak of nature and an “it” because you are transexual. That is what is on the forefront of my mind.

When you see me walking down the street…you have no idea what all issues I have to deal with when figuring out who I will date…and who will date me. And while, yeah, as a transman, I suppose I’m a rarer case…but when I see a couple on the street…I have to recognize that I know very little about what is going on there.

As a side note related to the Seal story. My mom noticed my dad’s package first thing and that was what got her interested…of course the location–a sort of San Francisco Bohemian beatnick hippy place frequented by avante garde artsy types in the 19 70s meant that whoever was in the bar already was more likely to be compatible with my mom…so that aside…she could start looking at packages I suppose.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 7:06 pm ¶
merq wrote:

@ Latoya & Ryan:
HAH! Priceless!

@ Ryan:
Even more appreciative of this post now I know it was by the same author. I was gonna air my frustrations after that earlier post, but I was a little wary of it feeding the “Black Gender War” I’m determined to believe is a self-perpetuating myth created by the media. Cheers.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 7:22 pm ¶
Daniel wrote:

The part that’s always boggled my mind is that people are assuming people of color who are dating white people are doing so out of a preference. I am of mixed Armenian and Black (West Indian) ancestry, and I grew up in a school system that was pretty darn white. Most of my coworkers are white, etc.

This is all because of segregation and its impacts (especially with regard to educational access) as well as discrimination and unequal opportunity, no doubt. But it also means I know way more white women than women of color, and consequently, I have dated more white women than women of color. Not by a long shot do I find them more attractive, nor is there a fetish, nothing of the sort. My point is – not everyone goes out of their way to date people of a given race, in fact, depending on one’s surroundings they may have to go out of their way to date someone with a similar background to them.

And as an interesting anecdote, one woman who I dated once asked me if I ever dated inside of my race. As someone with a mixed race identity, I laughed at her question, and told her if I limited myself to other Black Armenians I’d be restricting myself to my family (incest) plus one other family that I’ve heard exists in the New York area. She had meant whether I had dated any Black people: just a sign the one drop rule is alive and well in the 21st century.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 7:35 pm ¶
cytoken wrote:

The black male/white female relationship has been discussed to death. It really only shows American society’s obsession with black men–and that’s not a good thing.

Truth: There are more white male/Asian female relationships than there are black guy/white girl and black girl/white guy COMBINED. And Asians are just 5% of the country.

Even with this fact, the narrative is ALWAYS black male/white female. Would everyone just get off it.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 7:54 pm ¶
Lady Di wrote:

I have to say this is very interesting. However, I think people feed way too much into black women being bitter or angry about BM/WW couples. What about the perspective of black men being offended of black women dating or being in a relationship with a white man? I personally want to hear some remarks about that and open dialogue about that.

However, yes I use to be upset but not anymore though. I just don’t care. I think Black women as a whole should not care because the more you care the more you are giving more amunition for SOME BM/WW to benefit off of your bitterness. For example, I was at Wal-Mart and there are alot BM/WW couples there, and I smiled at one of couple and they had a confused look on their face out of shock and confusion. They thought that because I was a black chick that I might be upset at them. Before I smiled they had a snarky smile lol. I laughed at their ingnorance and wonder how many times have they done this to black women who reacted in a stereotypical black woman manner? lol. So I just don’t care and focus on me because I’m not here to have people gain a superiority complex from their insecurities off of my “suppposed” bitterness lol. It’s just not worth it. However, I will admit not all act like this some do love each other for the right reasons.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:26 pm ¶
Erika wrote:

I am also fairly judgmental of other Asian female/White male relationships even if I am in one myself. I feel really awful thinking that when I see Af/Wm couples, because it’s really none of my business, and I also think that other people look at us and think the same thing.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:38 pm ¶
Lady Di wrote:

Michelle said:

But as someone mentioned before, many of our movies and television shows, and much of what we see mirrored in real life tells Black women that we are fine to be the best friend, the cook, the sassy mouthpiece, but that nobody wants to love us, not even Black men. For many Black females, not all, the darker you are, and the curlier your hair is, the less desirable you feel. It sometimes feels as though White women get to be pretty even if they are average. A Black woman can’t be average. If she is average, then she is automatically considered unattractive.

This is an issue and still is. Black women want to be viewed in positive light on a macro view and hope that their social interactions will change. I have to say its true that there is a racial hierachy in beauty that affects most black women on a micro view or individual. It’s true that our behavior is seen as unattractive and unfeminine. I think black women deeply want that advantage, but it doesn’t seem like people care. So if they don’t care than I don’t care about them. Black women have to find their own way and create movements for themselves. We have been asking and asking for us to have diverse images via media but has it really worked? Nope. It is still a social issue for us.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:38 pm ¶
Aishtamid wrote:

@Fiqah –

Having just looked over all the comments…it’s amazing how right you are.

As a white guy, I’ll be honest – I sort of had a discussion in my head similar to this article. I realized “hey, I’m judging bm/wf relationships more than any other. I don’t bat an eye at the far more ubiquitous wm/af pairing.” Some of my closest friends are in stable, functional interracial relationships. I thought to myself, I shouldn’t feel threatened or have a false sense of entitlement dashed by people I’ve never even met.

I think it’s very telling that white guys don’t seem to have the same amount of hangups as black women to the black male/white female pairing. We’ve been fed positive messages about ourselves and given some sense of entitlement so it just doesn’t hit as hard.

@Evan, it’s already been said but I think you’re being unfair.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:53 pm ¶
Lady Di wrote:

merq said:

What really bothered me was that the author never extended that same logic to BM/WW pairings… Could it be, perhaps, that black men also just love to be loved? That’s an argument I so seldom see raised.

That’s an argument many black men aren’t very honest about. Their self-esteem issues how they feel as black man not being loved. Now as far as being respected yes that’s talked about but not loved. Women in general talk about being loved, but black women talk about not belonging and being loved. I have talked to some black men who felt not loved but they don’t deal with it by trying to deal with their issues and overcome it, some black men overcome it and the worst way. That is to retaliate and hurt black women as whole by going outside their race and wanting them to get mad so they can feel good about themselves and have them suffer the pain they felt for being rejected by some black women. Not only does that hurt themselves but that hurts black women as well. I actually respect you alot for talking about black men wanting to be loved. It seems on a macro view black men do not openly discussed being loved but more so respected. I will love to hear you expand on this.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 8:54 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:

@Michelle: LOL, not quite. It’s almost as if folks are studiously avoiding doing stuff on the list, so I still got some chips left! But hey, if it means the conversation is improved, then I’m happy.

Whenever I’m out with a non-Black man, I am the recipient of some very unsubtle Brotha Side-Eye Action and the occassional comment from men who in all likelihood wouldn’t look at me twice if I was alone. Interracial dating has taught me just how conditioned we as Black people are to feel romantically entitled to each other. But that’s not how this love shit works. It’s a gift, not a given. (<– Dr. Phil moment!)

Oh, and for what it’s worth, some months ago I re-evaluated the “huge package” comment in light of the situation Heidi was in.You really can’t beat the “living well” approach. If I were in the public eye, and my cheating husband humiliated and abandoned me and our unborn child, then every publicly visible aspect of my happy, loving relationship with my new beau would maximize the “Fuck YOU!” Factor.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:14 pm ¶
R. Prince wrote:

the only time a WW/BM relationship would ever bother me is if their racist notions of each other compelled them to start their relationship in the first place….
ugh, this sexual, racial hierarchy is definitely media driven. Every several months an “in depth” report comes out and “discovers” that although interracial dating/marriages are on the rise and more are accepted by american society, poor black woman and asian men are at the sidelines of this “new trend”…. what’s the point for this again? oh right, everyone needs someone else to dump on. smh.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 9:22 pm ¶
Ron wrote:

For me to see a BW with a WM is the ultimate form of respect if the reltationship is genuine.

To me a WM wanting and loving a BW reaffirms my own taste. I will tell a WM in a minute with a BW that you have good taste in women. So I do not get offended by it at all.

I think it is a compliement when I hear non-black men talk about how hot MO is.

I think BM know that they are not desired for the same reasons as WM. BM want to sought after for these qualities as well.

WM and WW are universally seen as attractive while BM and BW only as preferences.

Posted 10 Jun 2009 at 10:51 pm ¶
breaknthings wrote:

I’ve never once said “I only date black men,” but to date, I have only dated black men. I often think critically of why this is. Because I am a POC, but not black, I am also sensitive to being exotified myself (and I usually am to some extent). I’ve been thinking about Evan’s (#21) comment: “Cross-racial dating relationships are based on curiosities, fantasies, and fetishes.” Then what are same-race relationship based on… familiarity, reality? I think fetishizing/exotitfying happens when you have limited exposure to the other race. When I was growing up, my parents had many very close friends who were black. I don’t mean “friends” as in people they knew at work or invited over once a year for a xmas party (and some people think they “know” a people b/c they are consumers of their culture–wrong). By friends I mean people who would be over at our house ALL the time, sit in the living room and laugh until tears ran down their faces, take trips together, joke and cry together; their children were my close friends I grew up with. Seeing this intimacy between my parents and their black friends is significant b/c the black body was never foreign/exciting/taboo/a curiosity. Instead, it was very familiar, comforting and the major reason I’ve had loving relationships with black men. Culturally, of course, I have experienced many differences but that unavoidable even in same-race relationships. But in many regards I think I have been able to sidestep the fetishizing aspect.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:03 am ¶
Lisa wrote:

Great post, and comments.

I read this startled – what, white women are *desirable*?!? As a caucasian chick in China, I usually am dated despite not because of my race. I am used to being presumed asexual and funny-looking, or fetishized and presumed easy/desperate.

Some similarities to #18 AC and #20 Madelinek in Japan – and I agree with the latter that the parallels to POCs in the US are limited. I’m permanent and date in a mostly Chinese/Asian environment, but even so can’t miss the whole creepy WM/AF mutual fetishization – and attendent demonization of Asian men and white women. And a lot of white men who exclusively date Asian women, and who bash white women as harpies and cows, nonetheless get possesive and pissy about the white women they don’t even want anyways dating “out”.

I am actually grateful to the Chinese girls for taking the geriatric white men off the market so I don’t have to deal with them hitting on me. Yet I do judge: there are these horrible power differentials in age and income, along with gender and race. I see many a rich, white, Western 70-year-old with a poor, rural Chinese 20-year-old. I have friends like that who are genuinely in love, but I still think it’s messed up. I stand by my judgementalism.

When I give those sex-tourism couples the stink eye, though, it is often misread as jealousy and racial possessiveness. These girls with their grandpa-boyfriend hilariously give me these catty, triumphal looks.

Then, those of us who are in age-appropriate relationships with our economic equals but interracially get grouped with the fetishists and sex tourists. I know more same-sex couples than same-race couples, and intraracial dating seems archaic if not incestuous to me.

I think we all judge and assess all relationships we see, both intimates and strangers. Racial composition, and the reasons we react to it, is just one of many factors. Power imbalances exist in all sexual relationships, personally I think class and age are as if not more important than race.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:04 am ¶
jvansteppes wrote:

@Fiqah: You should take over for Harper’s index.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:05 am ¶
rebusrex wrote:

One phrase keeps cropping up in this discussion: “dating inside one’s race”. It seems like a strangely quaint and inaccurate term like “colored”… At least among black Americans, we are an admixture of a lot of different ethnic sources and a unique people who have roots in the Americas that date from the time of Christopher Columbus. In some ways, Seal and Heidi Klum seem just as exotic to me. Does it affect the equation when the black man and the white woman is not American?

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:20 am ¶
AC wrote:

Man, I wish I could check comments on here more than once a day.

@madelinek, aimerrouge: I’ve been here for about 5 years and have no plans of going home. I love America, make no mistake, but I love and don’t want to get out of my work here. It’s not a case of “oh, I can go home and get white boy ass in a few months` – I haven’t been home since 2004 and have no plans to go. I’m not trying to pull some “oh, now that I have lived in a country where I am the minority and sometimes people look at me weird, I can REALLY IDENTIFY with my old NWA CDs! I am sooo enlightened!” horseshit, I know I still have it easy – hell, over here I have it easy compared to Chinese & Korean folks that were BORN over here in a lot of ways – but I can at least identify with the feelings being discussed here, way more than I want to admit.

@Celeste – Yes, the “giant American vaginas” comment is 100% true story, and from MULTIPLE Japanese guys. I thought it was just one naive old dude watching too much American porn, but when I mentioned it jokingly as in “haha isn’t that crazy” to other Japanese guys I knew, every time at least 1 in the group, if not more, would say “but that’s true, isn`t it?” You’d think our pregnant women wouldn’t be able to walk down the street without the baby falling out, the way they thought our pussies worked. That was an awkward day.

I have way too many WTF stories. I`ve worked everywhere from hostess bars to kindergartens to TV here, so I got a whole cornucopia of racial-related insanity.

Example: TV producer explained to me that you can`t say “kokujin” (standard conversational word for black person) on TV, it’s offensive. I asked him what the “PC” non-offensive word was. His answer, and I swear to God he was serious, this was to a whole class of prospective TV stars:

“Say `someone who looks like Eddie Murphy` instead.”

Right hand to God.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:40 am ¶
little mixed girl wrote:

This was a pretty honest post.

I admit that I’ve not been too kind in my thoughts to Ww/Bm and Asn W/Wm pairings.

….I also knew from looking at the title of this piece, that there would be something like 3billion replies. Compared to the 2 or 3 replies that some other threads get.

It is true to an extent that who someone dates is not any of my business, but at the same time, I sigh when I see the same type of interracial pairings over and over.
And yeah, I do a little cheer when I see the black woman with the white guy or other “unusual” pairings.

I saw that some people mentioned foreign women in Japan.

I know that a lot of us English speaking foreigners refer to ourselves as “gaijin”, but since a majority of those English speakers are white, “gaijin” is often used as another word for white.
(Which is not to far off, because gaijin often refers to whites and gaikokujin is for the others)

Anyways, white females in Japan are highly desired by Japanese men.
The reason we notice the white guy with the Japanese girl is because they stand out more than the Japanese guy with the Korean girl.

The Japanese style of approaching women is also often kind of tossed to the side/ignored. White guys are more agressive and forward, and in our countries (US, Canada, etc) we are used to that.
No one is used to little things like “let’s exchange info via IR” or “here, let me put more veggies on your plate”.

But, yes, white women are desired here. If they weren’t, then they wouldn’t be featured in magazines and stuff.
And guys here, like guys around the world, are probably looking for a quick lay and some back slapping from friends for bagging a foreign chick.

As to Russian hostesses. Yes, you can pretty much tell if someone is a hostess. They have a certain style that they all seem to adhere to. Just because they might be hostesses doesn’t mean that they are selling sex. They are selling companionship.

sorry, kind of off topic.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:41 am ¶
johnjihoonchang wrote:

I too sometimes question certain interracial pairings when I see them, in my head, but at the same time, many of my friends (Asian women) are in loving interracial relationships/marriages with some rather great guys (many who also happen to be my friends).

I think for the most part, I trust my friends not to be harboring problematic racist thoughts when it comes to interracial relationships and that they are alert and aware enough to avoid those men/women who do suffer from a racially objectifying gaze.

Having these relationships as examples in my life has really helped me to avoid judgement when I see these pairings. Yet, on the other hand, I’ve seen some of my less close acquaintances fall into interracial relationships where there was a strong creepy racial objectification overtone (on top of the generally unhealthy relationship issues that were a little obvious).

I guess sometimes I see or overhear an interracial couple that I don’t know, and I get “that vibe”, I get worried, more than judgmental, that there are two people that are together, reinforcing their own racial prejudices and consequently reinforcing in a micro-level some of the problems we have regarding race in our society. All the same, if they’re both happy in their ignorance, it’s not my business. Even if they aren’t happy in their ignorance, it still doesn’t become my business.

In the end, we have to fight the battles that we have access to and private relationships outside of our individual networks are ones that we don’t have that kind of access to.

And fortunately, I’m past the Asian male angst regarding the AW/WM pairings (which I feel has created a sort of similar discussion in the APIA community to the BM/WW pairing), in part thanks to these friends of mine and also in part because I’m just so awesome that no WM/AW pairing threatens my desirability.

Ahem, pardon the pseudo-narcissism and faux-display of male privilege. But, seriously, I’m tired of this kind of discussion (that fortunately didn’t show up on this comment thread thanks for probably a combination of Fiqah’s preemptive strike combined with awesome modding) and I figure instead of complaining about what I can’t change, I’m just going to get somewhere in Hollywood and make some changes, little as they might be, at least on the entertainment media representation end of things.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 4:07 am ¶
Medusa wrote:

malted_tea: I think that it’s incredibly naive at best and unbelievably ignorant at worst to try to act like interracial relationships are simply people of different races happening to fall in love. The fact that it’s the same pairing we see over, and over; the fact that the people left out of dating in general are the people who are vilified in the media, and the fact that people aren’t smart enough to draw their own conclusions about who is desirable all factor into the problem. Relationships don’t occur in a vacuum. People have their preferences because of societal influences which puts white women (and to an extent, Asian women) on a pedestal and makes black women out to either be “mammy” or “jezebel” or even better, hyper-masculine and sub-human. I’d be rich if I had a penny for every time I heard “you’re cute…for a black girl”; “yeah, I guess he’s hot, but I’m not into Asian guys”; “I’m only attracted to Asian chicks”; “I just like white or Asian girls” and other similarly asinine crap. I actually had one friend try to justify to me the fact that he doesn’t find Asian men attractive, which is that Asians are portrayed in the media as being feminine, which makes the women more attractive, but the men less so. To which I thought, “SERIOUSLY??? You can’t come up with your OWN opinion on whether or not someone is attractive? You’re gonna fall back on the media for that???”

Anyway, these are all reasons for which people’s relationships aren’t just “no big deal” and “you love who you love.”

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 5:40 am ¶
TierListE wrote:

I think, in a twisted sense, my piss poor self esteem growing up being visually impaired helped me out of any IR couple complexes. Since I rarely thought I could’ve attracted the guy even if he didn’t have a preference for non-black women I couldn’t take it as a personal affront. The fact that I’ve been attracted to and dated non-black men further nullified any negative kneejerk reactions to BM/WW.

I’m not above my own judgements, unfortunately. i.e. White men who date Asian women I kind of ranked with those that date conventionally pretty white women as those at risk of being into stereotypes and possibly hurtful interactions, so I try to walk smaller around them unless they decide to approach with kindness or friendship. Not saying that they are more likely to harbor racial biases, but just a visual cue I made up to lessen bad contact, that I’ll readily admit due to own avoidance response I have no clue how reliable it is. I’m mainly guessing from guys I’ve known to wax eloquent about Asian girls or blondes tend to hold traditional racial views, and that those views and preferences are not uncommon.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 9:15 am ¶
MahoganyGreenwood wrote:

This post is good but sad. Because it’s a very complex issue in which most don’t seem to have a clue. It is much more complex than the orginal article delves. Having been in an interracial relationship for some time, I’m familiar with many angles; The defensive inside perspective, the finally don’t care side, the friends who are comfortable and those who are not and so many more issues…. Ultimately, I believe that the biggest problem related to the world of the black man and white woman has to do with the state of crisis of the Black Community and why that state continues to exist. It has to do with what ills contribute to that crisis or detracts from it. It is important to understand that interracial dating with black and white and black and yellow and so on is a different reality in this society than say asians dating whites. They have some of the same prejudices and ills directed toward them but their place in this society and in the larger world are different. It is only about love in part, because interracial love only has to do with love for the two entwined at the end of the day. It doesn”t really address the crisis of black people in the U.S. and abroad in some countries. It’s as complex as professional athletes leading young black men into dreaming mostly about being entertainment for a mostly white society when blacks are suffering from a lack of doctors and other professionals and role models in their communities and in this country. It is about black people being entertainment when we are in a crisis. It’s about pretending that crisis isn’t affected by things that do not reinforce our love and admiration of each other as black people when we are still suffering as a race. If things were even and healthy. It would not matter who our public display of affections lifted up as choice. But we are still suffering much and pretending that Obama, if a blue black man would have been president, is sad also. It is the difficulties of such realities as well as a union (black man/white woman) however blissful between the two, that bruises further an already traumatized group of people. Date and be happy. Life is short. But I think it disingenious or thoughtless to pretend that this is not bigger than two people. Only on an exclusive island where society is left behind (U.S. society) is it really about the two people and love. One day it may be just about the love. But that, however much we may want it to be, just isn’t today.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 9:40 am ¶
Eva wrote:

@Medusa
I do see your point. Society does have a lot to do with who you’re attracted to, however when people are together for many, many years, it’s because the people really do love each other. It’s not possible to stay with someone for 25 years just because society says they’re desirable.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 11:13 am ¶
AC wrote:

@little mixed girl …

(Which is not to far off, because gaijin often refers to whites and gaikokujin is for the others)

That is incorrect. It is true that the word “gaijin” brings to mind white skin, blond hair, blue eyes for most Japanese, but “gaikokujin is for the others” is not. “Gaikokujin” is the polite, proper term for a foreigner, usually western as other Asian countries tend to be considered a whole separate ballgame. “gaijin” is often mistaken as a shortening, instead of its real meaning: “outsider.” A lot of Japanese folks don’t seem to realize the negativity in the word, but the ones who know, know. Talk to anyone who has to watch their words professionally.

As for white women being “desirable” here, considered good for modeling jobs or one-night stands, and considered good for actual dating are very different things, no? I don’t know your experiences with Japan so I won’t try to guess, but my experiences have been quite different from yours, apparently.

Another thing frustrating here is that sexism is also quite strong here, to the point that as a foreign woman, it’s hard to untangle just which one is the problem when.

On a different, but related note, anyone seen the Japanese Samantha Thavasa ads with Beyonce and Takuya Kimura? Sexiest man in Japan like 12 years in a row, and he looks absolutely terrified having his arms around B. Don’t even know where to start interpreting that one…

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 11:16 am ¶
Rob wrote:

OK, I’m gonna throw a little homo-wrench into the discussion. I’m a gay black male who’s just gotten out of a 2-year IR with a white guy who was quite a bit older than myself. Even though I’m not ready to date yet, I find that my potential dating pool in NYC will be more white/latin even though I’m powerfully attracted socially and sexually to black men simply because I can’t find a decent, professional, upwardly mobile OPENLY gay black man. It’s the most frustrating thing in the world, and I’m starting to understand a bit of the frustrations of the straight black girls that want to find a black man. The hierarchies in the gay community aren’t that much different than the straight one. Black men in the gay community are largely to be ignored in public but secretly cruised and fetishized afterhours online. Asian guys hang out in exclusively white circles and date only white men (I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a gay Asian/Asian pairing in my life). Lighter-skinned Latino men are heavily fetishized in the community as well, but seem to avoid the trap that Asian guys do and mostly date each other.

I could go on, but I’m thinking that perhaps this blog isn’t the time or the place. Carry on with the heteronormativity. Maybe I’ll take my musings and start my own gay dating blog.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 11:46 am ¶
Lady Di wrote:

Medusa said:

I actually had one friend try to justify to me the fact that he doesn’t find Asian men attractive, which is that Asians are portrayed in the media as being feminine, which makes the women more attractive, but the men less so. To which I thought, “SERIOUSLY??? You can’t come up with your OWN opinion on whether or not someone is attractive? You’re gonna fall back on the media for that???”

That is funny. I have to agree with this statement because this happened to me recently. I was commenting on handsome I think Russel Wong is. She told me “ugh, Asian Man are not attractive” “I’m not into the Asian persuasion”. She gave me the same stereotypical reasons of not finding Asian men attractive that have come from via media. I was like wow this sounds very similar to how people don’t like black women. They justify their reasons from the media.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 11:51 am ¶
Miz JJ wrote:

@Medusa: Thank you for that post. You said exactly what I wanted to say.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 1:49 pm ¶
Rob wrote:

@LadyDi – That’s so funny. I was having brunch with a mixed group of friends on Saturday, and an Asian friend of mine brought her Asian boyfriend, who I (GBM) thought was quite attractive. I mentioned this to my gay (extremely light Brazilian but for all intents and purposes White) friend afterwards, and his first response was: “Oh, so you’re into Asian guys, huh?” I said: “No, I’m into hot guys”. I think some Asian guys are totally hot, but I go for a more beefy/muscular build than very few gay Asians seem to have. They are generally much more of the thin/twink variety. Asian guys are totally desexualized in the media, and that’s very unfortunate.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 2:30 pm ¶
Sean wrote:

Ryan, I appreciate your candor. I’ve become generally wary about entering IR dating discussions, but I’ve found this post to be refreshing.

I’ve noted a few recurring themes: the people who “notice” when they’re out with whomever, how they get the side-eye from those who apparently don’t approve.

NEWS FLASH: how do you know you’re getting the side-eye if you aren’t checking for it? Perhaps you are giving the side-eye yourself, no? I think people who take the time to notice these things may be a little pre-occupied with themselves. Now loud, snarky comments and teeth sucking are a bit more intrusive, as short of being deaf, you can’t avoid them, but even then- what can you do?

It won’t stop me from living my life.

“When I see a BM/WW couple, I try to smile/be friendly, but they, especially the BM won’t even make eye-contact with me.”

I’d say don’t read too much into it or let it get to you. From my own experience, I’m extremely shy, and I admit to having a bad, avoid-eye-contact habit. When you encounter this, it may or may not be a conditioned defensive posture, but there’s really nothing much that can be done about it either. Just be yourself, don’t let it ruin your day, and keep it movin’.

Now if s/he’s working in the customer service dept, and stares off into the ether while you’re standing there, then go full-blast!

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 2:49 pm ¶
Jamaquina.Cubana wrote:

@ Evan wrote:
I am still judgmental even at 38 years of age. Cross-racial dating relationships are based on curiosities, fantasies, and fetishes. The whole love and romance thing comes later. We think with our hormones first.
————————————————-
I’m going to have to agree with EVAN on this. Majority of IR couples i’ve ever met/known admit that main reason was based on some kind of sexual curiosity. INCLUDING Heidi Klum…she admitted later that it was Seal’s ‘front’ that turned her on and pushed her to talk to him in the first place!

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 2:49 pm ¶
S's mom wrote:

Thanks for commenting about the “big package” comment! I wasn’t disgusted by the fact she noticed–hey, we ladies notice these things! More that she was telling all on tv….. and perhaps reinforcing stereotypes?

There are a lot of self-appointed Japan experts who post here. When are the Swedish men/Peruvian women experts going to start posting? Or the Moroccan female/Indian male experts going to start posting? I am eager to hear their opinions on big wide open vaginas, too. (Being snarky)

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶
Mary wrote:

So… people who live in Japan are not allowed to post their experiences without being tagged as “self-appointed experts”? Am I reading this correctly?

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 3:54 pm ¶
Evan wrote:

The only time I do a double-take on the street is when I see two kinds of pairings with heterosexual interracial couples:

White guy holding hands with a black girl.

Asian guy holdings hands with a white girl.

These IR romantic pairings are so rare in public view.

Meanwhile, I see so many Black male/White female and White male/Asian female pairings that I don’t even register any second thoughts. To be honest, I do a double-take when I see an Asian guy with an Asian girl on a date.

My best guess is that the majority of black women find white males undesirable. And in turn, white females are not exactly excited about Asian males. Who knows. From my perspective, in a multi-racial society, Asian males and black females are at a serious disadvantage as desirable subjects in the dating world.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 5:06 pm ¶
Alyssa wrote:

Ok, I’m a little late to this conversation, but I had to say one thing.
@merq (comment 22): I compleatly agree and felt the same way you did about that post. I totally understand the feeling of “we just like people who like black women,” but I think it’s a little short sided. This only works in the sexist constraint that men choose women and women are choosen by men. In other words, when it is a white male/black female relationship, we think, “Woo! he chose a black woman.” But when it is a black male/white female relationship, we see black women as being rejected. (This also explains the conspicuous absense of white male/black male or white female/black female relationships in these conversations). I honestly think that if we start to see these relationships as women choosing men as much as men choosing women, then the white female/ black male construct will be seen as no more or less problematic than any other black/white relationship.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 5:18 pm ¶
JasonS wrote:

Cytoken…I share your sentiment.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 6:26 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:

@AC: He looks like he doesn’t really want to be touching her, it seems distant.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 8:44 pm ¶
RCHOUDH wrote:

This is very honest and insightful post. I’ll admit I used to be very judgmental towards a specific interrcial pairing which involved either a South Asian female/white male or South Asian male/white female. Growing up in a culture that places premium importance upon light skin and that often tries to distinguish itself from other POC cultures, I used to always automatically assume that the South Asians were only satisfying their light skin fetish and the whites were only living out their brown man/woman fantasies. I also used to automatically assume that these same South Asians in interracial relationships would never be open enough to date/marry people of other nonwhite backgrounds. Of course these were just my own knee jerk reactions because I never knew these couples well enough to find out why they really got together. I guess my reactions also came from my own attempts to break out of the “light is right” mentality that I had grown up with, and so whenever I saw more SA/W couples than SA/POC ones I just felt like the SA’s were victims of that mentality (even though again I never knew if this was the really the case because I never knew them personally). I’ve since grown out of viscerally reacting like that now, mainly because I realize that not all couples are based on fetishization and because they go through the same struggles to be together as any other couple out there.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 8:52 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

@ Zahra and Rob – thanks for the throwing in that homo wrench! As I read, I was beginning to wonder if it would ever come up.

I’d like to hear from folks involved in this discussion about how they think racism and stereotyping play into homo IR relationships.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 8:58 pm ¶
Phrone wrote:

I’d like to see something about this from a mixed person’s perspectives. Because my initial reaction to this post was very negative, not going to lie. Because, to me, discussions of interracial couples isn’t some abstract discussion of internalized racism and fetishes, it isn’t a discussion of how racism has influenced your personal attitude towards other couples, it’s about my parents, my family, and myself.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 9:03 pm ¶
babybro wrote:

Ah now this was a good peace. Usually I would just scan articles for anything interesting and most of the time I end up shaking my head and leaving the place, but this article spoke the truth on so many levels that I had to comment and say thank you.

There are just a couple of statements I wanted to make regarding a couple of things that I’ve seen.

1) There is nothing wrong with fetishes or preferences. The porno industry is one of the largest industry’s in the world today for a slew of reasons, and one of them include fetishes. Not only that, but many people to attribute to fetishes, and a lot of them relate to the same “race.” (Race I place in quote because it’s nothing more than a social construct anyway.)

When eddie griffen talk about how a black woman’s butt sway from side to side, or about how many black guys talk about the thighs and butts of black women, it’s a fetish. It is on the exact same level and distinction as a black male talking about how he like white women with big boobs. The only difference is that the eddie griffen situation is excused because it’s involve someone in the same race, which provides a huge hypocritical aspect.

There is no difference between a white male talking about how he likes blonds and a black male, it’s just looked down upon for a black male to say such because they are of a “different race.”

So there is nothing wrong with a person wanting to date or like another person due to preference or fetish. As long as that relationship builds and escalates past the core aspect of the initial attraction, than it’s fine. If you like this girl because she has big boobs, and date her and started to like the entire package, than there is nothing wrong with initially liking primarily her big boobs. Because no matter how much people want to deny it, we will want to date what we are attractive to.

2) It is absolutely pointless to worry about what type of relationship they have. Because in the end of the day, you are primarily powerless to do anything about it. If you see a black male and white female walking down the street, no matter how much you think in your head “why isn’t he with some good sista’s”, you will not change the fact that he is with this lady or vice versa. You are literally giving yourself a ulcer over something you have absolutely no control over. Why? Because it’s going to happen. America is going to mix more and more, and nothing can be done about it. As statistic shows with IR relationships, (Especially between BM/WF and BW/WM) increasing every year, to worry your hearts about it until you’re blue in the face isn’t going to do anything but make your eyes red.

Overall, there is a lot of hypocritical standards that exist within the interracial/intraracial concept. But I’m very happy that author realise where the problem lied and began to deal with it herself.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 9:55 pm ¶
A. wrote:

I’m a woman on the opposite end of this – I’m a black woman in a relationship with a white man, and I’ve been in this relationship for years.

I know how a lot of black women feel about BM/WW relationships. In general, I’ve seen more black women roll eyes BM/WW couples rather than be outright hostile to them, which is what I have gotten from black men. Generally, I hear comments (geared towards my boyfriend) like, “You white boys just keep taking our most highly prized women out of our communities”, or (geared towards me) “You must be after him for his money” (Despite the fact that I’m actually the one with the money in this relationship, not him), or that I will never date a black man again because of the erroneous assumption that I’ve ruled all black men out.

Mary – This is a community for pretty much everyone’s viewpoint, and that is welcomed in the comments. People do relate to this blog largely through their own experiences.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 10:14 pm ¶
Tara K. wrote:

While I’m not going to analyze it, I will say that I was in a BM/WW relationship that ended because I couldn’t handle the harassment I got from two black women in the dorm. I didn’t know how to respond to their comments. I don’t know if I would pretend that he and I were true love (we were really young, so come on), but things would have lasted longer otherwise. I’m not angry about this; these things happened in eastern Kentucky, where dating can be extra-extra-difficult for POC, whether it’s with a white person or a POC (as there are few).

At first I was eager to respond to the above comments by saying, “Most white women don’t intentionally date men of color for those reasons!” Then, after reading on, I will admit that I can see how plenty of women would prefer men who weren’t white. I can’t find the comment that said this, but, as someone already pointed out, there are cultural differences in how men treat women, and white men can be more oppressive in some ways.

Anyway, I feel like I haven’t contributed anything, but this is a good discussion and I’m enjoying reading.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 10:40 pm ¶
pilot wrote:

Chris Diaz- nice point about feminism. I actually avoided dating white men for a long time (even though I have a white boyfriend now), because as a friend once said, “They have no understanding what it’s like to be pushed to the bottom.” This isn’t always true, but enough so that I, and other women I know, either avoid or are careful about dating white men.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 10:40 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

@Phrone –

Ryan is mixed. Check her blog, or the previous post Merq linked to.

Posted 11 Jun 2009 at 11:12 pm ¶
S's mom wrote:

Mary~~Anybody can talk about anything they want. But that doesn’t mean everybody else has to listen compliantly. It’s annoying to see all Asian men painted with the same brush based on a few stories from a hostess bar. (AC admits to working in hostess bars.)
Claiming that 99% of white women with Japanese men are hostesses is just simple exaggeration.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 12:43 am ¶
Samia wrote:

Random thoughts no one asked for:

Very interesting, mostly non-crappy discussion yay! The commenter who mentioned man-choosing-woman syndrome has a point. Oddly enough, I’ve heard people comment on how “nice” a light brown black man must be for “being okay” with dating a darker black woman…because there’s no way he could have been the one actively pursuing her? wtf I don’t get it.

I live in the American South, and it’s just effing weird to see so few white-male/black-female couples around compared to the converse. I refuse to accept this as some kind of coincidence, sorry.

I see very few hetero relationships (involving people my age) that are actually based on “love” and certainly don’t accept that as an explanation for all IR couples. Interesting how all the “you’re only a victim if you choose to be” stuff is useless in every other life situation, but now it’s some sage piece of advice? I think this dating thing is much more complicated than most people are willing to admit.

In other words, not all of this haterade is in our heads. The hierarchy of female desirability certainly isn’t imaginary. Oh, and saying that Asian women enjoy some kind of high status– ever heard of a thing called objectification? How about exotification? Both are demeaning. Being sexualized ain’t the privilege it’s cracked up to be.

The problem is that women in general are not seen as fully human. We’re constantly pigeonholed into these associations of body parts, mentally assembled like pizzas on a table, there for the choosing (at least this is how many men are conditioned to see us). What toppings would you like?

My personal flavour of judgmentalism concerns Southeast/East Asian women in relationships with white men. Given the widespread stereotypes of us and the way I have been/am treated, I don’t think my feelings just poofed into existence one day. Nonetheless, I would *never* want any of my mental preconceptions to translate into real-life rudeness or disrespect to others. That shite ain’t cool. And love happens. It’s not my job to investigate or approve of everyone.

But I’m not going to pretend it doesn’t benefit me personally to be a little on-guard about white guys, if only because the ones I’ve dated in the past had really weird ideas about SE Asian chix that made it easier for them to treat me pretty badly.

To the commenter who said you need to love someone to be married to them for 25 years: the whole idea of marrying/staying married for love is a luxury in some parts. Sometimes it really is about appearances…

I gotta say I’m interested in hearing from more of our LGBTQI denizens…gimme some links plz.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 1:05 am ¶
Fiqah wrote:

::: reads through thread and chuckles bitterly :::

BIIIINNNGOOOO!

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 1:13 am ¶
little mixed girl wrote:

@ AC:

My first encounter with the gaijin/gaikokujin thing was in my 3rd year Japanese class.
If you have seen/used the book “An Integrated Approach to Japanese”, there is a blurb at the beginning of one of the chapters that points out that difference.
And based on what I’ve seen while being here, it’s mostly right.
“gaikokujin” is the correct or PC way of calling all foreigners, that’s what my office goes with.
But, in casual conversation, “gaijin” usually means “western” and “gaikokujin” means “non-white westerner”.
They do use “asia-jin” for asians, but “gaikokujin” also includes Asians.

The reason I think that white women are desired is that when I walk down the street with my blonde-haired friend, men will sometimes try and stop (her) and talk (to her).
I only get noticed once I tell people that I am from America.

While being in underware ads, magazines or seen as one-night stands might not sound fun, do you really think that the white guys chasing after the Japanese girls are thinking more than that?

And like you said, there’s the whole “traditional” thing, which may or may not be read as sexist by Western women.
I don’t think that Japanese guys are any more sexist than American guys.
It’s just that roles are a bit more rigid than in the US?

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 2:26 am ¶
little mixed girl wrote:

oh, and i’m not saying that white women with japanese men are uniformly hostesses.
those that are hostessess are easily spotted by how they dress. (tight pants and low cut shirts for white women and prom dresses with big hair for japanese ones…a combo of both for asian hostesses)

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 2:28 am ¶
Daniella wrote:

@ Evan and Jamaquina.Cubana

I am going to have to disagree with the both of you. Here’s where things get tricky…

I’m a mixed woman who is Mexican/White, externally light-skinned, and–NO my Mexican side isn’t fully European. I am a Mestiza (part Mayan) and my father is dark-skinned.

As for my Fiancee, he is also mixed. He is Black/White, Externally Black, and techniqually more White than me (he is 50%, I am about 30%).

In a sense, I am in an interracial relationship as a Latina and/or White woman (depending on how your eyes want to paint me) with a Black man.

Simulanteously, I am not in an interacial relationship (Part White woman & Part White man).

Keep in mind that regardless of what happens to our relationship, both of us can only date interracially.

So no, interacial dating isn’t always about fetishizing, tasting other flavors, or whatever.

Although, this is not to say mixed people can’t fetishsize too. This can and does happen.

But, here’s the real reason I prefer to date interacially, and particularly with another mixed being (other than the obvious fact it’s the only way I can date).

I have dated all sorts of people– I can do that because don’t have fetishes. You name it, full Mexican, full White, full ____, full of shit. Dated them all!

But, I’m going to be honest– I
have never been completely accepted until I dated another mixed person. For the first time in my life I feel whole as a partner.

As for the article…
(to be continued)

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 2:36 am ¶
anonymous wrote:

This hostess white woman with Japanese man thing is the completely opposite of the experiences my friends, my family and I have had in Japan and with Asians, in general.

Many of my white female friends were practically chasing the men off with a stick when they spent time in Japan and S. Korea. And they all came back with boyfriends.

I know several white women who are married to Japanese, Thai and S. Korean men (both foreign born and American born) and they have very happy and healthy marriages and families.

I’m 3/4 white and 1/4 Asian (I look white) and I’ve been with a Japanese guy I met through an English tutoring program at my university for 5 years.

The list just goes on and on. There are tons of happy families and marriages with Asian men and white women.

My grandpa is Chinese and my grandma is Russian, as well. So I’m struggling not to feel a bit personally insulted, as well.

Be careful with your assumptions, please. How do you know that half of those people you see on the street AREN’T together? You don’t. So stop.

And I’ve never met an Asian or Japanese guy in my age group (early 20’s) who has EVER mentioned anything about the size of anyone’s vagina. That is absolutely ridiculous. I spent 6 months there as an exchange student and besides some creepy old men (they’re in every country, I swear…), I never had any issues like that, nor was I disrespected by men. And my friends have had very similar experiences.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 4:28 am ¶
anonymous wrote:

Sorry, I made some typos. I just… got frustrated at the comments about AM/WF relationships. It hits home for me as you can probably tell.

Anyway, I’m sorry to hear if any white women are running into the wrong guys over there.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 4:35 am ¶
Mary wrote:

Claiming that 99% of white women with Japanese men are hostesses is just simple exaggeration.

You are right, and I didn’t get the full impact of that statement the first time I read AC’s post (in my brain it ran together with the “horrid and hypocritical” assumptions she freely confessed to having). “We have a lot of self-appointed experts here” was a broad enough brush that I wasn’t sure who/which viewpoints you were talking about.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 8:29 am ¶
mk wrote:

S’s mom – ok, that’s the second time you’ve judged AC for working at a hostess bar. What is your problem with her/that, exactly? You sound like you think it’s something she should be ashamed of (she “admits” to working in hostess bars? do I have to “admit” to having been a foreign language teacher when I lived in Japan?!).

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 9:06 am ¶
N wrote:

@Daniella
As I have gotten older I have found that I have a preference for men who look like me (eg Adam Rodriguez). Not out of racism or dislike for other men, but because the appearance generally signals that the man has a similar family as mine and therefore a lot of the issues dating monoracially aren’t there. My hair and skin color isn’t odd or remarkable, they understand my experiences and very importantly, their friends and family accept me.

I have found with a lot of men that while they may be ok with me, the WOMEN in their family will have nothing but criticism and scorn for me. And Im just too old to deal with that.

So yes, it is prejudice. I believe that men who look like me are more likely to be like me, and so far it has worked well.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 9:30 am ¶
Daniella wrote:

@ N.

I would not call that a prejudice. I would call that prefence based on subjective experience. I suppose in a sense I am that way as well. If given the choice, I would date any combination of a mixed person over any “full” person, just because they tend to be more understanding of my live experiences and are less likely to invalidate my pain.

What I was addressing was “festishes.” When I think fetish, I don’t think general sexual attraction… I think of “I like Asian girls because they are passive”, “I want to taste your chocolate,” ridiculous things like that. I’ve once had my p**sy essentialized in bed; it was really awkward. Who does that?

Adding on, I do think you bring up an interesting point about the coloring of someone equalling the telling of their background, but I have to disagree with this as well, Mixed families or even Latino families can come out peculiar, in general.

I can not reference my families looks and get a general idea for people. My Mexican side is metiza– people range from looking being dark-skinned/ dark-haired, a varation of olive skin/with any combo of hair, to light-skinned… and it can all exist in one family. My dad has dark skin, dark hair. His sister on the other hand is pale and red headed. Both share the same parents and both are 100% Mexican.

Getting even trickier, my cousins are also mixed. Mexican/Jewish, Mexican/Indonesian, Mexican/German, etc.

So what can my family tell me about other people’s experience? Nothing really, but I do understand that many other families have never dealt with such crazy variations. I just can’t say what that would mean for dating.

Posted 12 Jun 2009 at 1:29 pm ¶
TJ wrote:

I am a BW in an interracial marriage and I am judgmental of BM/WW relationships. Very much so. It matters to me that love is being compromised. That happens in alot of relationships but it seems so apparent in alot of BM/WM relationships. My very best friend is white and she and I have always dated Black men. I just happened to marry a white one. And she is still searching for her Black prince charming. The relationships she has been in that Black men have stereotyped her as a non Black woman (not loud, not aggressive, etc.)-but in return, she has gotten stereotyped into a white woman (push-over, nympho, emotional, rich, stupid) by these men. I see the abuse these women face. I don’t think it is jealousy on my behalf, I think it is more like I want them(WW) to be free from stereotypes and loved as women, as human beings, same for all women.

Posted 13 Jun 2009 at 11:39 am ¶
n wrote:

Daniella- I have found that in general, and it hasn’t failed me yet, that men who look like me have families like mine. Familes that range from white to black with all sorts of in between.
And because there is mutual selection, they are also picking me using familial resemblance as a factor, that we generally find each other.

The last guys I dated or exchanged numbers with pretty much had the same sort of family as mine, some guys had kids who looked like me or mothers who looked like me. Some looked like my kids or uncles.

2 weeks ago I saw a man at work, a customer, and I looked at him for a second and asked where he was from. Turns out he is from my grandmother’s hometown, a place not anywhere near here. I met my first husband in San Francisco, neither of us were from there, but it turned out HE was from the same area as my grandmother. Though I never had a preference for a certain look, I seem to be very skilled at reading subtle cues and recognizing what it is Im looking for when it appears.

Im not saying that men who do NOT look like me arent from one of those families, but I suppose I’d rather get false negatives (accidentally ruling someone out) than false positives.

Posted 13 Jun 2009 at 6:53 pm ¶
Izzy wrote:

#96
There IS something wrong with preferences and prejudice-especially when they perpetuate inequality, objectification, and ultimately dehumanizes by reducing a HUMAN being to a facet of their identity. The fact that this is prevalent in porn does NOT an excuse make. Porn also fetishes abuse, statutory rape, and is often heavily populated by women who are sexual slaves throughout the world.

I will be (perhaps) the first to say, I am judgmental of many IR relationships, especially BM/non-BW and AW/WF. I am not jealous. I do not long to be white or suffer from any other “bluest eye-esq” affliction. I am judgmental, and unashamedly so. ALL of you are =).

I will no longer be judgmental when I see more diversity in the composition of IR relationships. When I see more Asian women with Black men (or women), more Polynesians with Jews, and less minorities scrambling to be romantically involved with Whites first and foremost BECAUSE their White.

Sure, *eventually* other things start to matter-like income, personality, religion, etc- but the author has failed to discuss the social value of Whiteness, and the numerous ways this is perpetuated in every form of media. When I see a BM who only seems to be attracted to White or non-black women, I assume that he has been successfully conditioned, and therefore is likely not the kind of being I would want to be friendly with anyway. I don’t long for him or mourn him as a loss (lol). I cannot prevent him from getting a judge or having a fulfilling life.

I have personally witnessed the unsavory racial dynamics of said relationships, and while I am aware every couple is not like this, MANY are. Some of the most racist Asians I know are absolutely in love with their White boyfriends. Is this every Asian couple? No. But I’ve heard and seen enough to know this isn’t just a matter of love, lol. The disproportionate numbers are NOT coincidental. I judge them the same way I judge EVERY human being I see for a multitude of reasons. We all do it. I simply admit it.

Posted 16 Jun 2009 at 9:01 pm ¶
N wrote:

There is the simple lack of reciprocity issue. Black women tend to value black males above all others and it galls that they do not value black women above all others. Many black women even if men of other races were beating a path to their doors want and only are attracted to black men. And I guess it does sort of hurt to see one who does not feel the same toward them.

Posted 17 Jun 2009 at 11:57 am ¶
JasonS wrote:

Some have misunderstood the author’s point. She isn’t saying that these couples are above all criticism, or that racial dynamics never come into play. That can be discussed later (in fact, that is what’s already talked about – constantly). It’s an acknowledgment of the simple fact that – at least ideally – everyone deserves a fair chance, that you shouldn’t paint others with a broad brush, and that rational thought should override gut reaction. It’s refreshing, honestly. We don’t need to hear for the millionth time (often from a black woman in an IRR herself, no less) why black men should only date black women, or at least not date white women.

Posted 21 Jun 2009 at 11:40 am ¶
JasonS wrote:

#116 N:

Maybe that, instead of white-focused beauty standard, is the primary reason for unbalanced IR marriage statistics?

A take:

http://hosted.law.wisc.edu/lawreview/issues/2007-2/banks.pdf

Posted 21 Jun 2009 at 11:54 am ¶
Mike wrote:

” When I see such a couple, I immediately jump to the conclusion that the Black man is trying to prove something and the White woman is trying to piss off her family. ”

30 years ago this was true. Not so much any more. How do I know? 30 years ago, every interracial couple was a Black man and a White woman. Today, interracial couples are much more mixed: Black White, Latino, South Asian, East Asian… How old are you?

Posted 21 Jun 2009 at 9:26 pm ¶
Izzy wrote:

Jason,
You say that everyone should be painted with a broad brush, but you surmise that ONE person’s confession is an accurate interpretation of what-as you put it-”black women often do”. PLEASE. I see disapproval of BM/WW relationships quite often from Whites. Unfortunately, the angry black woman script has simply become the most popular one to complain about. I remember recently getting on a plane with a white woman and her three biracial children. As she headed towards her seat with her kids, I watched the stairs and even a few laughs coming from WHITE passengers. One woman even asked if those were really hers. No, there are no images of neck rolling white women, and the images of white men planning lynch mobs are passe, but relationships between blacks and whites are the LEAST likely for a reason-and that reason involves MORE than just black women’s disapproval. I find that most BM who harp on the ABW stereotype are just dying for a reason to justify the way they fetishize white women.

Posted 05 Jul 2009 at 1:55 am ¶
Izzy wrote:

*edit* You say that everyone SHOULDN’T be painted with a broad brush….

Posted 05 Jul 2009 at 1:57 am ¶
Lisa A. wrote:

It always kinda frustrates me when people stereotype an interracial couple before they get a chance to know them. I guess making snap judgments is a part of human nature. However, I read on this blog viewsonir.blogspot that some people that pursue interracial relationships have less-than-pure intentions. These are the people that feel dating out of the race is the only way for them because there are no available mates in their race or because they think the gender they prefer in their race are all the same in a negative sense. It was definitely a good read.

Posted 21 Jul 2009 at 8:22 pm ¶
Nikki wrote:

It takes a strong person to even admit any perceived flaws in themselves, let alone consciously move to change them.

I don’t fool myself into thinking that the world will ever be a non-judgmental place, but people like you, unafraid to admit that you yourself were judgmental, and your decision to rise past it, makes me smile and gives me hope.

Thank you for sharing!

Posted 23 Jul 2009 at 7:26 pm ¶
lost. wrote:

i am in my early twenties blonde haired “typical white girl” is i guess how you’d describe me. i just got out of a two year relationship with a white male almost over a month ago… i’ve also had my fair share of dating complete dick heads before him but then again what women hasn’t? anyway i have a friend who also is white blonde hair blue eyes beautiful girl who has been interested in black guys for almost over two years now.. the way she described her past relationships with black men is uncomparable to the white men she’s dated. she says shes never been treated even more respected then ever. we had this conversation after me and my boyfriend broke up.. i took up some interest, it’s like some light bulb or something when off in my head, i don’t know, it was a weird but a good feeling i got… maybe she’s leading me into a different direction then i ever even thought i would take…… about two weeks later i find myself at some social gathering and what do you know, the ratio for whites to blacks is about 5:1. in the past i have never had any interest in black guys i’ve always been attracted to all white guys… so i notice this black guy noticing me! gooooooood looking black guy might i add. so we start talking, gettin to know eachother, flirting, we instantly hit if off. i never would of thought in a million years i’d like a black guy, not that’s it bad in any way but i don’t know.. i guess the whole point im trying to make is i like this guy but i have sooooo many friends who are totally against innerracials relationships and would never let me hear the end of it if they were to even know! i don’t see the big deal but they do???????????? HELPPPPPPPPPPP

Posted 27 Jul 2009 at 3:09 pm ¶
JG wrote:

I’m a BW married to a W/H Man, and I have to say not only does it not bother me to see BM and WW I’m not interested. I guess if I were single and into BW I would be; but I’m not on either case, so it’s just a non-issue for me. Good for them. What it does is leave one more WM, AM, HM available for women with my preferences. Interestingly enough though I often find that the BW dating the WW are the same ones asking for my number…hmmm.

Posted 31 Jul 2009 at 6:15 pm ¶
amanda wrote:

Interracial Relationships…Black Man and White Woman
We are in the 21st century now where it is no longer strange to see interracial couples walking freely on the streets. It is now accepted in the society by a lot of people but there are still a few people who frown at this. Some people believe that it is impossible for there to be true love in such a relationship. No one can know if true love exists in any relationship apart from the actual participants. Well I have studied interracial relationships between black men and white women, I have also read a lot of forums on the same topic and I have come up with different reasons a black man will go for a white woman.
1. True Love: A black man can actually fall in love with a white woman for reasons known to him. She in return falls in love with him and they live happily ever after, and perhaps have beautiful children. As I said earlier a lot of people believe this is not possible. And if it is possible they believe it is extremely rare.
2. She is attractive: A black man may find a white woman attractive and decide to act on it. A lot of times we find people from different races attractive but never dream of going into a relationship with them. This black man in question goes for it.
3. His surroundings: A black man may have grown up in a white surrounding. By white surrounding I mean he lives in a white neighbourhood, attends a majorly white school. He has not had the opportunity to meet a lot of black friends and has to make do with what he has. He has learned to understand white people and hence has no problem in going into a relationship with one.
4. To make a statement: A black man may want to prove that he can get any girl he wants. Be her black, white or Asian etc. So he looks round a room and spots the most gorgeous girl and she happens to be white. He goes to talk to her to prove there is no one off his limits.
5. To annoy the black women: A black man may want to go into a relationship with a white woman to annoy the black women he knows. This could be for different reasons maybe all the black girls have rejected him, dumped him, where too difficult for him, where too opinionated or he just generally dislikes the black girls he finds around him.
6. She is too nice: A black man will stay in a relationship with a white woman because she is too nice to him. This is tricky because it is not because he loves her but because she does everything he wants. She never argues with him, she is submissive, she makes him feel special, the white girl acts like she is so lucky to have him( I mean he chose me over a black woman).This black man ends up staying in the relationship because leaving will be too mean to this girl that has caused no harm.
7. Rebound: He is just out of a relationship with a black girl and does not want anything to remind him of her. So he goes into a relationship with someone completely opposite to her.
8. Inferiority complex: He has inferiority complex and believes white people are better than black people. So he only goes into relationships with white girls cause he believes she is better than any black girl.
9. She asked him out: some guys never refuse to go out with a girl once she asks him out. So when a white woman asks a black man out it is no surprise that he says yes.
10. Black girls play hard to get: a lot of black girls play hard to get and not ever y man enjoys the chase so it is no surprise when a black man goes after a white woman because she is not going to waste his time.
11. He is just playing about: He is not looking for a serious relationship the moment and just wants to play around until he is ready. When he is ready to settle down and even successful and want to have a family he looks for a nice black girl.
12. To prove that he is serious about her: Once people see a black man white woman relationship they immediately do not take it seriously. The black man has to keep on trying to convince people that he is serious about her so he puts so much effort into the relationship to make it work. He may even go to the extents of proposing and get married to her just because of proving a point.
13. Rejected by too many black girls: he does not see a point to keep on trying so he might as well try white girls.
14. He is gaining from the relationship: this could be financial, society respect, sex.
15. Something different: she is different from his kind, different culture, food, etc. The fact that she is different from what he is used to pulls him to her. She may be more adventurous than all black girls he knows.
16. Beautiful children: he marries her to have beautiful mixed race children with long hair and light skin. Everyone knows mixed race children are beautiful.
17. The devil you know is better than the angel you do not know: For a black man who has only ever been with white girls, he prefers to remain that way. He is afraid to go for black girls he has no experience in.
18. Hunger for what he has been banned from: His family and friends may have warned him from dating white women so this makes him hungry for white women. He just wants to have what he is told not to have.

These are reasons I came up with but I may be wrong. If you are in such a relationship you may argue that you do not belong to any of these categories or you may discover you belong in more than two of these. Thing is both parties should be careful that there are going into the relationship for the right reasons. It is a big task to learn about and accept another race; in the process you may lose yourself and your identity. You may be trying hard to please someone and become someone you think he or she wants you to be. You may lose your culture in the process and have to be someone else for the rest of your life. If you are okay with this then its fine. Being able to be yourself in any relationship be it inter racial is very important. You should not feel like you’re not good enough for your partner. A relationship should be 50/50 with both parties contributing equally. I wish all black men who choose this path good luck and happiness. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”,” one man’s meat is another man’s poison” we can never fully understand each other’s actions in life.

Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 3:02 pm ¶
flowers to Philippin wrote:

hoooooo boy……. still waiting in vain….

Posted 17 Aug 2009 at 1:51 am ¶
Anonymous 2 wrote:

I am so glad to read this conversation- I’m a WF who has just started dating a BM (I hope I won’t be under attack ), and it’s a new experience for me. We met at our martial arts school, so it went beyond color to start- we have a lot of positive traits in common. The honest truth is that if he had come up to me in a bar as a stranger to talk to me, I wouldn’t have been interested, period. I’ve always been interested and dated WM, but there is something very special about him as an individual, color aside. It is a hard path though, I can see that already, which is a consideration but is not making me want to stop seeing him. To those of you who are open-minded, thanks for the positive energy and to those who are not, I appreciate being able to get your insight.

Posted 23 Aug 2009 at 6:22 pm ¶
Michael wrote:

I really appreciate the author’s message. The world would definitely be a better place if other people followed suit as far as personal reflection.

Personally, I am quite frustrated with those that oppose interracial relationships. It seems to me that most people who are into racial separatism are extremely controlling and expect everyone else to conform to their viewpoints and opinions. They also often seem to be overly willing to bully those that abide by their wishes. It’s as if they consider themselves the authors and masters of culture and heritage.

I believe that an interracial couple has the ability to discern the authenticity of their relationship and live with the consequences thereof without the unsolicited input of bigoted strangers. Furthermore, they should be able to emphasize their cultures if, when, how much, and in whatever way they want to–not on someone else’s terms.

In my opinion, those that want to stay within their race should do so and just leave everyone else alone. Meanwhile, those in interracial relationships should stand up to the oftentimes unfounded animosity rather than coddling it.

Posted 24 Aug 2009 at 2:23 pm ¶
KC Cruzz wrote:

This is to the writer of this article. I am a black woman and I do not ever remember a time in my life that the features of a white girl stirred envy in me. I don’t even remember comparing myself to white girls as a whole. Never thought to. I find it ironic that the one thing you were especially envious of, their pale skin, is the one thing they try hardest to get rid of.

Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 4:23 am ¶
GSayre wrote:

I am a half-Mexican half-Irish woman raised by my Mexican mother and Mexican adopted father, so I identify myself as a Latina, despite my physical appearance (which is more Caucasian, with blonde hair, etc.) I have dated across the racial board: white men, Latinos, Persians, even an Indian. None of these relationships began with an awareness of race; they all were men I got along with and was sexually attracted to, and they all ended for the same reasons any interracial relationships would end. The extent of judgment I received for these relationships was white female friends curious about my attraction to men of races they had never considered. As I explained once, “cute is cute.”

However, none of these relationships got anywhere near the reaction that my current relationship has. Right now, I am dating an incredibly smart and handsome black man with whom I could not be happier. Yet somehow I am berated with more criticism than I anticipated. It took me off guard, but I honestly could not care less what anyone thinks of my relationship. My boyfriend and I know how we feel about each other, and we refuse to waste time defending our feelings. If anything, others’ judgment has brought us closer.

Sorry. Just felt like throwing in my experience.

I have loved reading all of these posts, and I do feel like I have a better understanding of outside views of interracial relationships.

Posted 13 Oct 2009 at 12:59 pm ¶
GSayre wrote:

ps.
It is worth noting that my boyfriend has also dated several races.

Posted 13 Oct 2009 at 1:12 pm ¶