New Words for Mixed Race People of Colour – With or Without White Ancestry

by Special Correspondent Thea Lim

Earlier this week, while writing about my affinity for Mariah Carey based on the fact that we are both mixed race, I forgot to mention something important. I forgot to clarify that, while me and Mariah are part white and part POC, there are a lot of people who are mixed race but have no white family members, or have all white family members.

willeva It seems like an obvious point, yah? It seems obvious that a person is mixed race if their family is composed of more than one race. But you don’t need me to tell you that for many of us, the term mixed race is synonymous with being half-white. In other words, when we say mixed race, the assumption is that we are referring to people who have one white parent and one parent of colour. Or even one white parent and one black parent.

We assume mixed race people always have one white parent. We forget that children of part-white ancestry don’t have a lock on mixed raceness; you’re still mixed race if you have two parents of colour from different ethnic backgrounds. And (this one’s a shocker), technically you’re mixed race if you have two white parents from different ethnic backgrounds.

This is problematic in and of itself because we are erasing the experience of mixed race people who don’t have white ancestry. But further, it’s simply another way in which we center white experiences in our culture. We don’t note the experiences of mixed race people without white ancestry because their combo leaves white folks out of the picture; a mix without whiteness is not considered worthy of comment. As a culture we continue to fail at conversations involving issues that have nothing to do with white people. Embracing and recognising our mixed race non-white brethren is yet another way that we can break the The Wheel of Tyranny.*

Usually when I write about mixed race issues, I write about mixed race people who have one parent of colour, and one white parent. This is because this is my experience. And usually, I stick a little note at the end of my post explaining my use of the term “mixed race.”

From last June:

Alibhai-Brown uses mixed race to refer to people who are part white and part of colour, so that’s how I’m using it here. But yes! I do agree that mixed race really refers to people of any mix. Which includes at least half of North America.

From last August:

Let’s also note that defining “biracial” as half-white and half-something else is not accurate! Like you could be half Pakistani and half Malaysian. You’d still be biracial! Let’s stop ignoring the experiences of people who are mixed race but have two parents of colour. Doing otherwise makes it seem like the mixed race experience is only remarkable when a white person is involved – it insists white experiences be included.

Last week, it seems like I promptly forgot. Commenters queerhapa and Death of a Dynasty noted my error:

queerhapa wrote:

oh, and i know you’re mostly talking about mariah, who is half white, but a couple times in here it is implied that all mixed-race people are part white. which, obviously, is not true. just wanted to point that out.

Death of a Dynasty wrote:

Queerhapa is right that the article implies half-whiteness. It’s a trend that demands more than just a disclaimer. This albeit beautifully written and moving article implies that the experience of being mixed is also always about white privilege and guilt.

So why did I forget? Part of it is that I guess I think of my writing on Racialicious as a continuous conversation, and if I’ve said something once, I don’t think to repeat it again. But obviously not everyone has read every post I’ve written on the site. Part of it was just plain f-ing up, and for that I am sorry.

Yet, another part of it is that, like Death of a Dynasty, I agree that we need more than just endnotes to correct the constant assumption that mixed race means half-white. This is what I said in response to queerhapa:

I wish there was terminology that indicated mixes that are between communities of colour and that are between people of colour and white people. Because mixed race is always assumed to mean half white/half POC, & biracial, even more annoyingly is always assumed to mean black/white. People who fall into neither of those categories but are still mixed get forgotten, and I wish there was a way to indicate what we are talking about (that is, without the perennial footnote…).

The more I think about this mixed race conundrum, the more I feel like we need language that indicates when we are referring to mixed race people with white ancestry, and when we are referring to mixed race people with only ancestry of colour. In this way we indicate that we are aware there are mixed race people who do not have white ancestry, simply by the words we use, and without the need of annoying disclaimers that reduce folks to a footnote.

The term “people of colour” was thought up because we needed a way to recognise that all non-white people share a common experience, despite their vast ethnic and cultural experiences. At least as I understand it, it’s intended to emphasise the solidarity we have with each other. And the term “non-white” didn’t cut it because it identified us via what we are not, rather than what we are.

This is part of the problem I have with the term “half-white.” I could simply write a post about me and Mariah, referring to us as “half-white.” But in the first place I’m not half of anything, i.e. somehow incomplete (I have all parts of myself intact, thankyouverymuch), and in the second place, simply referring to myself as half-white seems to imply that whatever my other half is, it isn’t worth naming. Again, we centre white folks.

But the term “half-Chinese” (as we would say for me, or half-Kenyan as we would say for Obama, or half-Dominican as we would say for A-Rod) has its own problems; in only indicating one part of my heritage, the implication is that you can assume my other half must be white. We circle back to our original problem: the assumption that all mixed race people are half-white.

And let’s not forget that even the word “half” has its issues; I’m actually 1/2 Chinese, 1/4 English, and 1/4 Irish. Using terminology that deals in halves ignores folks who have more than two heritages. Like our friend Keanu.

When you really begin to probe our language, it becomes clear that we force simplicity on an experience that is not simple at all. We insist on binaries that lose, erase and ignore the complexity and vitality of our family trees. And we also touch on that conversation with no end: how do you define “race”? Is someone who is Czech and Polish mixed race? What about someone who is Tibetan and Burmese? Someone who is Tamil and Sinhalese? Someone who is Welsh and Scottish?

Have you seen the movie Hitch? It may or may not be worth the rental, but it is noteworthy for its pairing of Will Smith and Eva Mendes. In all my years of trashy viewing, they are the only fictional interracial couple that quickly comes to mind – and does not include a white person. Othello & Desdemona? Nope. Jon & Kate? Nope. Angie & Flipper? Nope. Aaliyah & Jet Li? Yes!…oh no wait. They were just friends.

People who deal in anti-oppression are more than familiar with the importance of finding the right word, and inventing one if the ones we have are inadequate. This is why the terms cisgendered, chican@ and freegan are in common use.

The only neologism I can think of right now is this: when I am referring to mixed race people with white family, I will write “mixed race (WA/AOC),” and when I am referring to mixed race people with no white family, I will write “mixed race (AOC).” WA = white ancestry; AOC = ancestry of colour. When I am referring to all mixed race people, I will just say mixed race. Because that’s as it should be.

But…these are not the sexiest of terms. Let me know if you’ve got something that works better.

* The Wheel of Tyranny refers to a pattern whereby where communities of colour circle constantly around a hub that is white folks, while never communicating with each other. In other words, too many conversations involve a community of colour, and a white community, and there are not enough conversations going on between communities of colour.

** If you are not familiar with her, the lady in the picture is Amerie. According to Wikipedia her family is African-American and Korean.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. All-Encompassing Mixed Race and Multi-Racial Body of Literature and Multi-Media « Memory, Learning, Culture, Networks, Spaces, Ecology, Expertises on 05 Oct 2009 at 2:12 pm

    [...] http://www.racialicious.com/2009/06/03/new-words-for-mixed-race-people-of-colour-with-or-without-whi... The term “people of colour” was thought up because we needed a way to recognise that all non-white people share a common experience, despite their vast ethnic and cultural experiences. At least as I understand it, it’s intended to emphasise the solidarity we have with each other. [...]

Comments

  1. Mary wrote:

    My two cents: when I read the Mariah Carey piece, I did not take it as 100% representative of all mixed-race people. I took it as an individual trying to elaborate her particular place in the big picture: but I did not assume the entire picture had been painted. And I’m not sure any one voice can paint the entire picture. When you’re writing about an individual experience, you’re inherently writing about one person and not speaking for everybody. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

    So personally, I’m not sure the answer lies in new terminology or in disclaimers (although I don’t have any particular objection). I think the answer is simply to hear more voices from folks who are mixed race without white ancestry*, and to understand there is a mosaic of experiences: everyone contributes their own piece. And I think the responsibility is on the reader as much as it is on the writer to understand when they’re looking at an individual piece and when they’re looking at the bigger picture.

    * Which is not intended as a critique of Racialicious per se, because I understand this site works via individual submissions, but as a more generalized urging.

  2. mute wrote:

    “And (this one’s a shocker), technically you’re mixed race if you have two white parents from different ethnic backgrounds.”

    This can’t be right. If there are two partners of same racial group (as they are determined in this nation), how can their child be mixed race? Mixed ethnically, yes, but mixed race?

    But anyway, I appreciate the point that has been made by the overall post. The assumption of a white partner is something that is one of my pet peeves whenever there are discussions about interracial relationships.

  3. mistersquid wrote:

    The more I think about this mixed race conundrum, the more I feel like we need language that indicates when we are referring to mixed race people with white ancestry, and when we are referring to mixed race people with only ancestry of colour.

    That’s because you’re reproducing the (largely) US racial/racist bias that white is a transcendental signifier and only non-white needs to be marked as “of color.”

    As a mixed-race person, I have never thought that mixed-race meant part white. Why should the language reflect your particular misconceptions about the meaning of mixed race, preserving and privileging a unique designator for whites versus every other race on the planet?

  4. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

    Sooo true! But while we’re on this topic, can I say how it annoys me that people assume “INTERRACIAL” automatically means you’re dating a white person, when in fact, a Chinese woman might be dating a Black man, or an Indian dating a Latino.

  5. Joseph wrote:

    @Thea
    You are Killing It lately with your posts! … I have been reading and nodding along “yes… yes” even when I haven’t posted responses (busy week that started last week). But I just wanted to say thanks for your thoughtful attention to the complexities at work here.

    It seems that the temptation to put white people at the center of our discussions about race is overwhelming sometimes. That is partly understandable, but sometimes I wish we could work harder to create narratives that do not have whiteness at the center. So I really appreciate what you have written here.

    Teasing out the subtleties in a topic like this is extremely difficult. I agree that the fractions people sometimes use to describe a mixed race person are unsatisfactory for lots of reasons. And they don’t really account for other sorts of hybridity (like those that come from being raised in a culture that is very different from your ethnic origin). But maybe coming up with terms that break along racial lines is a doomed project because those categories are inherently unstable in the first place? I dunno…

  6. n wrote:

    One of my best friends is Korean and Black, a lot of Korean and Black people live near military bases. So I for one don’t always assume one parent is white (or black). But yes, the comments on mixed race people having white privilege does seem to indicate that people equate mixed with being part something and part white.

  7. Thea Lim wrote:

    @mute
    I think this is about how we define race. Is race defined by skin colour? General geographical region? By…? I would think that if someone who is, say, White Latin@ and Czech deems their different heritages disparate enough to call themselves mixed race, then hey, they’re mixed race.

    @DIMA
    Cosign. I think that touches on the exact same issue.

    @mistersquid
    I don’t think I am “reproducing the (largely) US racial/racist bias that white is a transcendental signifier,” I think rather I talk about race in North America, and I have to recognise the patterns and assumptions that go along with it. I also have to recognise how my culture programs me to make certain assumptions. When I first moved to North America as an adult, I had none of this baggage. 10 years later, I find that ideas that were once amusing to me in their absurdity are now hardwired into my brain.

    Good for you if you never forget that being mixed race can mean a whole lot of different heritages; I don’t think however, that everyone thinks that way. Like I said, often biracial is thought to mean specifically white/black (forget about white/anything else, or POC/POC); as if racial tensions between white and black folks are the only ones that exist.

    In fact, a lot of the time mainstream discourses about racism seem to act as if only racism between white/black folks exists. A lot of time “person of colour” is a synonym for “African American.” When terms are used in this way, whole swaths of people are immediately erased by linguistics, along with the possibility for solidarity.

    I’m not saying I agree with or endorse any of these ideas; quite the opposite. But just because I don’t hold these ideas, doesn’t mean they don’t largely determine the way we think about race, both in mainstream venues and in ones like Racialicious.

    For me, knowing that I am not the only carrying all sorts of assumptions, I need the terminology to indicate that there is an experience shared by all mixed race N. Americans – despite completely different heritages – and then within that, there is an experience shared by all N. American mixed race (WA/AOC) people that is not necessarily shared by all mixed race people.

  8. Kandeezie wrote:

    What about people who are mixed race but with two parents who identify themselves as black.

    [Waits for reaction...]

    That’s right. They have a Portuguese/black grandmother and an Indian (from India)/black grandfather on one side, plus a white/black grandmother and few other mixes grandfather on the other side. They too are mixed. No?

    The one drop rule doesn’t erase reality or how people choose/experience their identity.

  9. Abu Sinan wrote:

    I am glad you brought up. All too often it isnt about being 50%-50%.

    My boys are half white (German and Czech) and my wife is 3/4 Arab (Saudi, Yemen and rumours of Egyptians and Morrocans) and 1/4 Indonesian.

    So mixed race can mean a lot of different things to different people.

    I think there is also a physical expectation that people have sometimes of what “mixed race” is supposed to look like that usually ignores what we are talking about here. I have SILs that “look” very Arab, yet my oldest SIL could easy pass for Asian.

    This whole thing is going to be more of an issue has time passes because we, as a country, are much more than black and white now. With our immigrant communities the term “interracial” would not be able to be taken for granted anymore.

  10. Juniper d wrote:

    I believe most anti-miscegenation laws only forbade marriages between white people and other races, but not between people of non-white races, so I think a lot of the perception of what “mixed race” means arises out of that. Even if we know intellectually that the category includes people who aren’t part white, culturally, that’s where the phrase leads us.

    This has led to some interesting perceptions of my own identity. When my grandparents when out of California to marry in 1939, my grandmother was considered white (but now she would be considered Hispanic or Latina), and therefore couldn’t legally marry my Filipino grandfather. I never really thought of myself as being part white because of the perception that “Hispanic” is somehow always separate from “white,” but now I’m beginning to accept that I might be.

  11. Gem wrote:

    For my grad project in qualitative methods (sociology) I interviewed 10 interracial couples and I made sure to include non-white interracial couples for the same reasons that have been mentioned.

    “Is someone who is Czech and Polish mixed race? What about someone who is Tibetan and Burmese? Someone who is Tamil and Sinhalese? Someone who is Welsh and Scottish? ” I would say these are bi-ethnic or multi-ethnic people rather than racial.

  12. Lindz wrote:

    Great post!

    I think a large part of the problem is a lack of examples of multiracial/multi-ethnic people and relationships that don’t involve a white person. I know several in my everyday life, but not so much in the media.

    To add to the short list, I know Eva Mendes also did a movie with Denzel Washington. And there was Christina and Burke on Grey’s Anatomy.

  13. johnjihoonchang wrote:

    Uh, agreed on your overall statement. There is a very strong black/white race dynamic, at least in the US. In general, I assume mixed-race just means that you have two parents of different races (who themselves might also be multi-racial). Being outside of the white/black mindset myself, I never needed to think about specifying that a mixed-race person had white ancestry or was exclusively composed of PoC ancestry.

    All the same, I don’t know if we actually need to create new terminology. After all, when it comes up, we just need to specify (like you did above). It seems simple enough.

    Also, I thought “race”, at least in the US, was a catch-all that described larger phenotypes, rather than specific ethnicities. I wouldn’t say that a Corean + Chinese is mixed race because they’re of the same race (Asian) in the US. Multi-ethnic heritage, definitely, but I thought race was more about larger appearance than the specificity of identity.

    Oh, and thank you for naming the young woman in the associated pic. Never heard of her before, but she’s quite attractive.

  14. queerhapa wrote:

    Complicated stuff. I wonder if coming up with new terminology only serves to reify whiteness, making white ancestry *the* pivotal experience, keeping that Wheel of Tyranny spinning. (Love that concept, by the way). And what if you are less than “half” white?

    While I don’t know if new terminology is the greatest answer, I think what would be helpful is for people to be *specific* when they are talking and writing about mixed-race issues. That is, if you’re only talking about a subset of us, say so.

    Also, I’m with Gem and Mute. Being of mixed ethnicity is different from being mixed race.

  15. Xey wrote:

    Interesting… As a POC, I do realise the importance of remembering that “mixed” doesn’t always have to include White/Anglo/Caucasian (I hate all the terminologies!). I’ve dated a Japanese guy before and as of late, I have been romantically linked to African men (i.e. born to Black African parents IN Africa). I’m African-American or BlackAmerican (i.e. born IN America to American-born people of Black African descent). I’ve considered these relationships definitely “inter-cultural” at most, but not at all “interracial” and even necessarily “inter-ethnic.” I know that my ancestors were likely from West Africa but the exact place is unknown. So, if I am an African-American woman who marries a man from Gambia, Nigeria, Mali, Senegal, or Niger, etc., would that make my relationship “inter-ethnic”? Is there even a possibility of “interracial”?

  16. Vanessa, Michigan wrote:

    [Mod Note: There's a rule around here that we don't tell others how to identify. Your point was valid, but you can't tell someone how they identify is "wrong." Try again. - LDP]

  17. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Re “In all my years of trashy viewing, they are the only fictional interracial couple that quickly comes to mind – and does not include a white person.”

    Burke and Yang on “Grey’s Anatomy”?

    Neela and Gallant on “ER”?

    Forge and Ororo in the X-Men?

  18. mile wrote:

    I think about this a lot, in therms of interracial people and interracial relationships. I was posting on another forum about it and mentioned that “interracial” is always assumed to be white + non-white. Another regular, who is Asian-American and married to a Hispanic man (her husband may be white by race, I don’t know) talked about how, for her wedding, when looking for cake figurines, she saw ones that had Asian and white spouses, black and white spouses, but never ones of two minorities together. It’s odd.

  19. Marcotico wrote:

    “…Will Smith and Eva Mendes.” Eva Mendes isn’t white? Oh no, my sheltered suburban world is crashing down around me….

  20. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Rob Schmidt

    Maybe I need to change my viewing habits…I don’t watch any of those shows!

    @ queerhapa

    I think of new terminology as a place holder for a time when we won’t have norms of mixed-raceness (or gender, or sexuality, or race, or class…) that mean we constantly need language that corrects our baggage.

    Do you think the terms I chose assume a minimum of half-whiteness or white ancestry?

    Also, what is the difference between race and ethnicity? I ask for the purpose of untangling this, not because I am looking for new systems of arbitrary classification :)

  21. Beth wrote:

    Excellent post.

    I’ve recently started liking the People of Pallor term as the counterpart to People of Color, specifically because someone of mixed race who is, in a given situation, being read as White may be a Person of Pallor without erasing the rest of their background. It makes something explicitly about skin tone, and the interpretation thereof, explicitly about interpreted skin tone.

    It also means that there might be a term in the middle, for people who are not consistently read one way. People of Iridescence? Chatoyant Folks? I don’t think either of those is going to take off, but it’s an interesting line of thought.

  22. Camille wrote:

    I have a schoolmate
    we called him Chindian :)
    In the Caribbean we also have the term Dougla for Indo-Afro mixes

  23. inkst wrote:

    Part of me wants to say that this discussion is a little too roundabout and possibly superficial, but then again, I understand the power of language, and you make a great point.

    There have been several interesting posts in the past few days that are sort of working together in my head right now, in particular I am thinking of the one on the race check box at universities. I am multiracial (if I check anything, it’s usually “other”), and I remember very distinctly my white mother teaching my siblings and I our list of white ethnicities in an almost sing-song kind of way because there were so many different types of “white” from her side. The other side was always simply, “Indian.” There was never anything much more specific than that, even though my father is an immigrant and my white family is at least two generations deep in the states. In other words, the inherent focus was on being Irish, Scottish, Dutch, Italian, German, and English, but not on being Tamil. Now, my partner is Mexican, so what would that make our possible future kids? Does it matter? I think in a way it does so that they at would at least have the opportunity to learn about their heritage(s).

    Thanks for taking the time to think about this Thea. I agree with you that placeholders are necessary to even begin to reorient the discussion and move away from a strict dichotomy. And once again, Yay Racialicious for providing such a great forum!

  24. ahimsa wrote:

    the only fictional interracial couple that quickly comes to mind

    I agree that these interracial couples where neither one is white are few and far between. Check out the movie Mississippi Masala if you’ve never see it – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102456/ – directed by Mira Nair.

    As for the topic, I agree that not only the word mixed but most of the language used to talk about race is fraught with problems. Take the idea of being half of a certain race (or 1/4 or whatever). First of all, mixing genes is not like mixing paint (just from the little I’ve read – someone else can provide details since genetics is not my field). Secondly, race is not genetic so no one can be “half ” of a race in the way that people tend to think. Using terms like half, 1/4, etc. may unintentionally promote an incorrectly biological view of race.

    I never thought mixed race was used to mean part white and part something else (I do think biracial has more of that connotation). If asked to describe Tiger Woods, for example, would not the term mixed race come to mind? Cablinasian has not really caught on (his term). I think most people read him as black but I’ve read in several places that he self identifies as mixed.

    I certainly have no good ideas for what words to use but I applaud the idea of looking at our language and trying to come up with better terminology.

  25. Ruchama wrote:

    About fictional non-white interracial couples — ER has had at least two black man/Asian woman couples, and (I know this was forever ago) on A Different World, Dwayne was for a while dating a woman who I think was half black and half Japanese. (I could have sworn I remembered seeing a movie with a relationship between Jennifer Lopez’s character and a black man, but IMDB is telling me that I’m wrong.)

  26. Luis wrote:

    Well if we really want to parse, then we can even interrogate Hispanic/Latino as a racial/ethnic category. My mother is Dominican and my father is Puerto Rican and Brazilian. On one level that makes me multiethnic, but within each of those identities my family is not only mixed race but also from different ethnic backgrounds (Spanish, Portuguese, West African, Taino, Brazilian Amerindian, potentially German and other things).

    So even just saying “I’m Latino,” which is true since all my ethnic “parts” are within the category, is an extreme simplification of my racial and ethnic background that we accept in North America because of the desire to categorize Latin Americans into a simple racial/ethnic/political bloc. You say A-Rod is half-Dominican (news to me), but what exactly is Dominican? There really isn’t room in the North American system for the ways in which each Latin American nationality talks about and categorizes race.

    Speaking of categorization, Spanish colonies used to have this complex system of racial categorization called the castas system, which mapped out mixtures of European, African, and Amerindian people into 16 combinations. Many of the combinations were purely African and Amerindian. It basically fell apart once you couldn’t really keep track of who was what, and most of the terms have fallen out of use (some survive). While it was a tool of oppression, it also was a solution to the problem proposed. We really shouldn’t go down that route. Not to mention that there’d be just a mind-boggling number of categories to really serve global diversity.

  27. Kaonashi wrote:

    Personally, I prefer biracial or multiracial because…I mix paint. I buy mixed fruit. “Mixed” isn’t a word I associate with human beings.

  28. Abu Sinan wrote:

    The multi-ethnic thing is a valid idea. That is where my European heritage comes into play, being mixed German and Czech.

    If this is bi-ethnnic, and different races are bi-racial, what do we call someone who is the product of both a bi-ethnic and bi-racial?

    This is the future. Welcome to the globalisation of relationships and background.

  29. E. wrote:

    In all my years of trashy viewing, they are the only fictional interracial couple that quickly comes to mind – and does not include a white person.

    Turk and Carla on Scrubs?

  30. E. wrote:

    This is the future. Welcome to the globalisation of relationships and background.

    I like this!

    (For whatever it’s worth, I’m Swedish– born in Sweden, raised in various European countries, settled in the United States. The Boy is an Ashkenazi Jew and fourth(? maybe third)-generation American with Czech and Austrian heritage. I don’t know if we’re multi-ethnic, but we’re certainly multicultural.)

  31. E. wrote:

    For the record, I do not in any way mean to equate my experience (above) to those of mixed-race couples, because for all intents and purposes, the Boy and I are both white. I was just responding to the “globalization of relationships” point, which I think is lovely.

  32. Restructure! wrote:

    Personally, I don’t think of mixed as being half-white, since I grew up with mixed kids with no white ancestry. We (non-mixed people) still considered them “mixed” because they did not fit into the racial/ethnic descriptions we were taught.

    and in the second place, simply referring to myself as half-white seems to imply that whatever my other half is, it isn’t worth naming. Again, we centre white folks.

    No, I don’t think this is true at all. I do think that the term “half-white” is reversing the white gaze. Yes, you’re naming whiteness, but POCness is assumed as the default.

    For example, sometimes I talk about some of my “half-white” relatives to other POC, like I say, “So-and-so is half-white”. They know that the other half is Chinese, because they assume that my relatives being Chinese is the default. (They know that I am Chinese.)

  33. Thea Lim wrote:

    @Restructure!

    But I wonder how your “half-white” relatives feel about the terminology? My point there was simply that as a person with a white mama, I do not like being referred to as half white – b/c among other reasons listed, it is not the only part of my heritage that I want to be identified by. As such I don’t refer to other people with one white parent as half-white, because maybe they don’t like it either.

  34. Nadra wrote:

    In “Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle,” John Cho has Paula Garces as his love interest, so there’s a Korean-Latino pairing, a trend which is booming in Los Angeles right now.

  35. Mixedjewgirl wrote:

    I think you’re confusing race and ethnicity, Thea. Social reserachers define race as “a human population considered distinct based on physical characteristics.” Therefore, two people from socially constructed racial paradigms can have a biracial child.

    Ethnicity is “a term which represents social groups with a shared history, sense of identity, geography and cultural roots which may occur despite racial difference.” Examples would include Jews and Latinos (who can be of any race). An Italian American person and an Ashkenazi Jewish person would have a mixed ethnic and cross cultural family, but not an interracial one.

  36. dee dee wrote:

    The sad truth is that because people rely mostly on what they can see, people who phenotypically do not appear to be of mixed-race will always be overlooked versus those whose features can be seen as having the admixture of two different races.

    Case in point, a college friend of mine (who is a fair-skinned, wavy haired black woman) married a man from the Philippines who (unbeknownst to me) has a black mother. Sadly I would have never known this if my friend didn’t mention it in passing. So I can imagine that his experience as a mixed-race man has been completely overlooked by most. Yet he strongly identifies with both sides of his heritage.

  37. little mixed girl wrote:

    i’ve never assumed that a mixed race person would be half-white.
    heck, i never assumed that mixed = biracial.

    as someone who is always hoping to create stronger ties amongst mixed race people, it really pains me that half-white biracials tend to toss their minority/minority mixed comrades to the side.
    (or at least that’s how i feel)

    i don’t think that we need new words to show that a mixed person may be a certain mixture, we multiracial people need to be more inclusive of mixedness.

    if you are mixed, and write about a mixed experience, don’t limit your writing to people who are only the same mix as you.
    talk about the experiences of all different types of mixes.

    if you are starting a club at a university, stop making those “hapa (hate the word used this way) club for half-white, half-asian people” or “mulatto (hate that word) club for half-white, half-black people”.
    make a club that is welcoming to ALL types of mixed people.

    as to, say, a person who is welsh and irish, i would consider that a multi-ethnic mix…
    if we are talking about such a mix in north america, then i think it’s important that they have 1st generation parents or something that ties them to a community.
    i have come across too many white people who will run down a laundry list of “things i’m mixed with” to prove that race doesn’t matter…

  38. Bianca Reagan wrote:

    Also, in Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle, Kumar is paired with a giant bag of marijuana, whom he dreams of marrying. That was an interspecies pairing.

  39. Shelby wrote:

    Little mixed girl: “if we are talking about such a mix in north america, then i think it’s important that they have 1st generation parents or something that ties them to a community.”

    And this is the part that makes me anxious: Do multigenerational mixed people “count” as mixed? I sometimes identify as multiracial, but I’m always afraid of coming off as (or actually being) self-hating if I do.

    “…i have come across too many white people who will run down a laundry list of ‘things i’m mixed with’ to prove that race doesn’t matter…”

    I think this is a really valid concern. But it also feels like we might risk excluding people of color for the sake of trying to police whiteness…or self-identification…or something?

  40. Miztification wrote:

    My comment/question is probably going to tick people off, so I apologize in advance. Isn’t everyone of “mixed-race” to some degree? I don’t know of anybody that’s “pure-blooded”, especially in this day and age. Maybe in some remote place their might be, but definitely not here. This need to label and set a particular ethnic group apart is not unique to this country either (Look at Brazil.). And if it matters to anyone, for the record, I’m a Black woman, but I have Eastern Chickahominy and possibly Chinese (I have to research this a bit more.) ancestry. I’m not sure about “white blood”. I put black/African-American when I fill out forms, because that’s mostly what I am and it’s definitely what people see first and foremost when they look at me (I’ve got a reddish-brown skin tone and strong black features, but I also have freckles. I don’t look like Kimora Simmons or Mariah Carey or anyone like that.).

  41. jen* wrote:

    @little mixed girl – cosign on this:

    i have come across too many white people who will run down a laundry list of “things i’m mixed with” to prove that race doesn’t matter…

    I can’t count the number of times this has happened to me. The whole “I’m mixed, too!” thing. I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s experience but, at least in this country, race does not equal ethnicity/culture. And the argument that a white American with Anglo, Czech, and Polish ancestries is multiracial seems to fall on the side of diminishing the fact that “race” is really denoting phenotypic [read: color, features] differences. And generally, we Americans still tend to code people by race more than ethnic/cultural/national ancestry.

  42. Kaleemah wrote:

    This is something that has always bothered me. Biracial who are not half white are often left out of the equation when discussing the biracial experience, especially in America.

  43. Brigid Keely wrote:

    This was an interesting post. Thanks for writing it.

    I know that sounds kind of like a spammy comment, nothing substantive, but I have nothing concrete to add to the discussion. I am thinking about it, though, and about language and how race and culture intersect. So thanks.

  44. Kavita wrote:

    Lol @ Beth. I, for one, am going to start referring to myself as a person of iridescence.

  45. kate wrote:

    @jen – cosign.
    I like the multi/bi-ethnic rather than biracial/multiracial language as well. My ethnic heritage is mostly Spanish, German, English and Irish – although I identify as American because I am a product of white American culture, and I’d be immediately pegged as American in any of those places. For me to use the label multiracial, in my opinion, would be extreme massive appropriation. biiiig time appropriation. I and, I think I’m safe to say, many other whites in America, haven’t lived the multiracial experience I’ve seen described on this board and elsewhere regardless of our mix of ethnic heritages. IMO, white people of white(white^n) backgrounds, at least in the US context, should be very careful in adopting the word “multiracial” for fear of reducing the presence and importance of multiracial people of color, and of again focusing the conversation on whiteness.

    Still, thanks for the wonderful post. I think you are very right that many people automatically assume whiteness in multi- or bi-racial people, and I suspect the reason that many comments here express surprise at that assumption is because many of the commenters here are very thoughtful and aware of racial issues. I remember being taught once (by a parent? friend? I can’t remember) that the definition of biracial was black/white while a black/chinese person, for example, would be multi or mixed. ?????!!!

  46. JL wrote:

    @ Beth

    People of Pallor! It sounds better, and less whiteness-centric, than “off-white” (the term I’ve recently been wryly using to describe myself). On the other hand, I feel like a lot of people would just assume that it was a roundabout way of saying “White”, which then doesn’t solve the light-skinned mixed person’s problem of part of their identity being erased.

    I feel like I’m pretending if if call myself multiracial, because I’m mixed White and White Latina (I do have some ancestry from multiple other races, but it adds up to less than 1/8 of my background, so I feel like a fake if I identify with it). But “multiethnic” doesn’t seem right either, because it’s too general – someone in the US of mixed English and Cuban ancestry is going to have a very different experience of ethnicity than someone who is of mixed English and German ancestry. I wish there was a specific term for mixed Latin@/non-Latin@ status (if there is, and I’m just ignorant, I’d be delighted to hear it!).

    I’m active in half-Jewish circles – half-Jewish people are frequently treated badly in Jewish communities – and when we’re talking amongst ourselves, we tend to refer to the whole lot of us as “mixed” or “halfies”, regardless of what racial or ethnic groups make up our individual backgrounds. But I’m not sure how well that works outside of that specific context. Even within that context, there are issues surrounding that terminology that we have to address, as our different racial and ethnic backgrounds influence our experiences of being halfies and our experiences of race, ethnicity, and life in general.

  47. Persephone wrote:

    Just playing the game here — Doakes and LaGuerta on Dexter!

    That said, really good post. Thanks for clarifying.

  48. 9jah wrote:

    @Mute/@Thea – identifying race by geographical region (and not accounting for color) would cause all sorts of unworkable confusion. As others have raised is a Af-Am/Nigerian of mixed race? No. And while I support racial self-identification, racial identity should still be subject to some societally held understanding about what constitutes race for conversations to make sense. Or else clarifications like this post would be constant. Race is best understood as primarily reflecting phenotype (coupled perhaps with mainstream cultural understanding in a specific place). For multiple heritage white/black or whatever people, why would identifying as multi-ethnic be objectionable?

    @Thea,
    “the more I feel like we need language that indicates when we are referring to mixed race people with white ancestry, and when we are referring to mixed race people with only ancestry of colour”

    This just seems like further compartmentalization of people to no specific end. Ultimately the question will arise why all mixed race people of color are being lumped together notwithstanding potentially distinct heritages and experiences. “Mixed race/ bi-racial/multiracial” seems appropriate to me with any speaker making the necessary distinctions.

  49. Shelby wrote:

    @JL- maybe “white of hispanic origin”? I know the term “hispanic” leaves much to be desired, but on forms under “white” I usually see “not of hispanic origin” tagged on. Maybe just taking the opposite of that? I also think the term you used, “white Latina,” makes perfect sense. Although I guess that might not get at the multi-ethnic-ness you’re looking for…

    And I don’t know about other people, but I don’t think of “Hispanic” and “Latino” as interchangeable. In my mind, “Latino” connotes “person of color” whereas “Hispanic” makes me think “of european ancestry from a spanish-speaking region.” For example, George Lopez or Eva Mendes would be latin@ whereas Perez Hilton (Galician-Cuban parents) or Alexis Bledel (Argentine/white Mexican) would be Hispanic. And no, I have no idea why I know those people’s ethnicities in the first place…lol.

  50. lunanoire wrote:

    Thanks for the post. When I suggested this blog to a mixed friend (Chinese Jamaican & Black Jamaican), she was put off by the pics of the founders. She said that she didn’t think the site would speak to her b/c the founders both have a white parent.

  51. aa wrote:

    @ miztification

    i don’t know about everyone, but i do agree that a lot of people who might not seem multiracial can be/are. using myself as an example, i am brown woman of african descent who is not read as anything other than black. however, both of my parents are immigrants [nigeria and st. vincent] and i have some really pale [read: "high yellow"] relatives on my mother’s side. since my mother’s family so obviously has white folks hiding somewhere in the family tree, would i, a black woman born to black parents, be considered multiracial?

  52. sarah wrote:

    I personally don’t like to call myself “mixed race” because it suggests that anyone who does not identify as such is of “pure race.” There is no such thing as “pure race,” so IMO, I don’t see how “mixed race” can be unique identifier.

    I feel much more comfortable calling myself “multiethnic.”

  53. JL wrote:

    @Shelby – Yep, the problem with “White Latina” or “White Hispanic” is that it doesn’t get across the multiethnic part.

    To me, the connotation of “Latina” doesn’t include Spanish (though it includes people from Latin America who are of Spanish ancestry), while “Hispanic” does. But it seems like society in general regards them as interchangeable. My own [Hispanic/Latin@] ancestors were mostly Cuban Sephardim (Jews who settled in Spain and Portugal during Roman times and are culturally and ethnically distinct from the Ashkenazim that most Americans think of when they think of Jews).

  54. deb wrote:

    Lindz said:

    To add to the short list, I know Eva Mendes also did a movie with Denzel Washington.

    Speaking of Denzel, anyone else remember “Mississippi Masala”? It was touted as an interracial romance between and African American man and an Indian woman. I think the actress who played Denzel’s love interest, Sarita Choudhury, is biracial (White and Indian).

    You know, I’ve always thought of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, Jr. as an interracial couple.

  55. Emmeaki wrote:

    I have brown skin and curly hair and when I tell people that my mother is American and my father is from Sierra Leone, they usually assume that my mother is white, but she’s black. I’m not mixed unless I go back to my great, great grandparents, and in that case, everybody is probably mixed.

    I have never assumed “mixed”or “bi-racial” to mean part white. It seems strange to me that one would assume this seeing as there are endless racial/ethnic combinations.

    On the flip side, when examining interracial couples, it’s usually black/white couples that are discussed.

    My ex-boyfriend (who was Indian) and I were an interracial couple. My black/German cousin and her Jewish husband are an interracial couple. My black/Indian friend and her Panamanian husband are an interracial couple, etc. We need more dialog about racial/ethnic mixing among POC.

  56. Jean wrote:

    I quickly get overwhelmed by trying to categorize any mixed/multi racial individual. I was nodding reading inkst’s post on being fine with the “other” designation, and I typically refer to myself as a person of color in conversation. Coz whether you have white ancestry or not, coming from more than one racial/ethnic ancestry and/or tradition means you have a certain kind of experience which i think is the most significant way to define all of us who have bi/multi racial backgrounds, especially in the N.American context. We deal with it through our lives in different ways, but nonetheless there is a common thread.

    There was a club at uc berkeley 10+ years ago called MISC, i forgot what the acronym specifically stood for, but it was for bi/multi-racial students of all cuts. The term “miscellaneous” really resonated with me. I wouldnt mind checking a box for “miscellaneous.”

    But i whole-heartedly agree with those above that spoke to move beyond the white vs. non-white mixed ancestries – irrelevant as far as i’m concerned…

  57. Tashya wrote:

    “And (this one’s a shocker), technically you’re mixed race if you have two white parents from different ethnic backgrounds.”

    I think you may be confusing race, ethnicity, and culture. First of all, “race” is really not a construct that is synonymous with ethnicity or culture. It’s more of a classification, used mostly here in America.

    By the standards you posit, I too, would be mixed, which I am not. My father is Nigerian (Igbo) and my mother is African American from the deep south–two very different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. I may be multicultural, maybe even multiethnic, but I am certainly not a mixed-race individual.

    To take it a step further, and to liken it to your example, if my father had married a Yoruba woman, which is a different ethnic group than the Igbo, their children would also not be mixed race.

    Just my 23 cents!

  58. Thea Lim wrote:

    @mixedjewgirl and Tashya

    I specifically decided not to define race or ethnicity in the post…that is not a convo I want to get into! While there are definitely, as you both pointed out, academic definitions of both terms, people have different ways of defining and understanding them ad nauseum, and at least in the case of these terms, I believe that the way “the people” define them has a great deal of bearing on how they are understood, perhaps even more so than their academic definitions.

    As I said before, I imagine that people who come from very disparate cultural backgrounds that appear phenotypically similar might refer to themselves as mixed race…considering that the foundation for this entire conversation (ie the concept of race) is totally bogus to begin with, well, who am I to disagree?

    @ little mixed girl

    I am not sure how I would write about the mixed race experience of someone who is mixed race (AOC). I don’t know about that experience; I would probably be misrepresenting it if I were to say that by the fact that I am mixed race (WA/AOC), I am qualified to write about mixed race (AOC) people.

    @9jah

    I don’t think of it as unnecessary compartmentalisation. At least for me, what differentiates the mixed race (WA/AOC) experience to a GREAT DEAL is the light-skinned privilege and white privilege that comes along with it, and trying to figure out how to integrate that privilege into your life, especially when many of us are read as white part of the time, and POC other parts of the time. That’s obviously not going to be an issue for mixed race (AOC) people. They are different experiences that have things in common. But for me personally as an anti-racist writer, I need to be able to clearly communicate what I am talking about, so as to avoid linguistically erasing the experiences of others.

    @ All

    I am honestly surprised by the number of people on this thread saying that they never though “mixed race” implied “partly white.” I think that’s great if people themselves don’t harbour problematic assumptions, but folks must at least recognise that that is a conception that is out there. Simply look at most discussions about interracial relationships (as some commenters have noted), or representations of mixed race families, or even, as Wendi suggested, interracial porn…there’s almost always white folks involved.

    Like I said, that’s great if that’s not your assumption, but it’s important for us to recognise what are the mainstream assumptions and understandings of the terminology we use.

  59. Ruchama wrote:

    My own [Hispanic/Latin@] ancestors were mostly Cuban Sephardim (Jews who settled in Spain and Portugal during Roman times and are culturally and ethnically distinct from the Ashkenazim that most Americans think of when they think of Jews).

    I’ve read some discussion about whether Cardozo (a Sephardic Jew) should actually count as the first Latin@ Supreme Court justice. (Consensus on that one seems to be “No.”)

    Counting mixed-white ancestry as mixed-race seems like it would end up in a very odd definition of “race.” (My grandparents considered my parents’ marriage to be “mixed” — my parents are both Ashkenazic Jews, but my father’s family is from Germany and Austria, and my mother’s family is from Poland and Russia, which are distinctions that matter very little now, but mattered a whole lot to my grandparents.)

  60. sandeep wrote:

    let me just say that i’ve enver thought of mixed-race relationships & the like as being a purely white-involved affair. in fact i almost never consider WHICH race is involved regarding the mixed race couple / marriage what have you. just thought i’d chime in, seeing as how the author was using alot of “we” ’s that just didn’t mesh with who I am and what I think. I’d say tread more conservatively before making sweeping statements about what we ( assumed to be all people of the earth, or even if limited to that of all people of the u.s.a. ) because i don’t agree whatsoever with that statement.

  61. little mixed girl wrote:

    @ shelby
    “And this is the part that makes me anxious: Do multigenerational mixed people “count” as mixed? I sometimes identify as multiracial, but I’m always afraid of coming off as (or actually being) self-hating if I do. ”

    yeah, i was meaning to try and expand on that when i got home, but i got tied up with things.

    i enourage multi-gen mixed people to ID as mixed. (if they choose to, that is)
    i personally do not like tests on racial knowledge or stuff like that.
    but i think that when it comes to, say, a multi-ethnic white person in north america, some of those cultural identifiers become important.
    not because it makes them more authentic, but because it gives them a different perspective.
    they have the option of “dropping” their culture and being more fully accepted into mainstream america than the 3rd gen chinese-american. if they are trying to hold onto that, then more power to them.

    yes, i realize that i am being unfair in expecting white multi-ethnic individuals to pull more weight.

    but, if you are multi-gen mixed, i don’t think you need to prove yourself.
    i think that a lot of people feel like “mixed” itself is something that is recent. like “to be mixed, your parents MUST be of 2 different races”.
    that is actually something that i feel is more connected to “mixed” than “half-white”.

    hope i clarified that some? :)

    @ thea lim
    “I am not sure how I would write about the mixed race experience of someone who is mixed race (AOC). I don’t know about that experience; I would probably be misrepresenting it if I were to say that by the fact that I am mixed race (WA/AOC), I am qualified to write about mixed race (AOC) people. ”

    (rawr, how do i quote??)

    i don’t think that you (or anyone) has to write as THE authority on mixed people (half-white or poc/poc).
    but i think that including thoughts on their experience and such is a good step.

    i know that many won’t agree, but i don’t think that minorities should get caught up in “stick to your own people”.
    even if i were to find someone who was mixed in the same way i was, there’s no way that i could guarantee that our experiences would be the same.
    as mixed people i am sure that we will have some shared experiences. :D
    —————–
    one thing i forgot from my original post was that what “mixed” means in north america is really going to depend on where you live.
    if you are in an area like seattle or honolulu with a large asian population, “mixed” might mean part-asian.
    if you are in a city where the majority is black or white, “mixed” might mean black/white.

    where i’m from, saying “i’m mixed” usually prompts the person who asked “what are you?” to follow up with “what mix?”.

    in north america, the majority is white, and that’s where the mixed = half-white assumption probably comes from?
    all of us living in north america have to interact with white people…
    or, on a world-wide scale, people from europe were the ones going around colonizing and such, so i’m going to guess that that has some relation?

  62. Robyn wrote:

    I consider myself African-American, both my parents are “black.” However, my great-great grandfather on my mother’s side was white, with that side of the family coming over here from Ireland. Then, my great great grandfather on my father’s side was white. We also had a white great-great-great grandmother in my family. We also have some native american and english in our family too.

    My grandmother was born with red hair and green eyes, her brother with blue eyes and straight hair.

    What does that make me?

    Often times, African-Americans are VERY mixed up (due to the slave trade), but somehow we are “just black” and the rainbow of OUR lineage and people believe that somehow, those parts of our ancestory should not be as embraced.

    But, Irish and Italian-Americans who are three times removed from Europe can somehow claim their ethnicity with pride, as if their parents or grandparents came from Europe, when many of them did not. It trips me out to here white Americans say, “I am 1/2 German, 1/4 Irish, 1/8 Italian…..” But, it black people did that, we’d get persecuted by everyone, both black and white.

    When I go overseas, people from other countries can take one look at me and ask, “What is your background?” If I say, “I’m black.” They say, “yes, and what else?”

    Many of us in this country are “mixed race” and have no idea or we just choose to be ignorant about that part of our history and have no curiosities as to why we look the way we do and where we come from.

    But, taking one look at the array of hair color, hair textures, skin color and features of African-Americans, regardless of how we got there, it is evident that we are NOT “just black” or “only African.”

  63. Jasmine wrote:

    Hi all I am a first time poster and a long time reader.
    I have to say that I think it is great that people are actually posting/commenting on multi-ethnic experiences. I think that multi-ethnic people really do have distinct experiences that are worth nothing, depending on how assimilated your family is, whether you be Irish/Welsh, or Chinese/Japanese.
    My father is indian, and my mother is filipina-chinese. Both immigrated to the US in the 70’s. As a multi-ethnic Asian American, my experience has been that strangers (and even some of my friends and family members) treat me as a curiosity, and go so far as to belittle my knowledge of one of my cultures, and even participation in certain cultural events, citing that I am “not chinese enough,” or that I’m “only half indian anyways.” Yes, I’ve known some of these people since I was born.
    I’ve always strongly identified with the stories of bi-racial folk because I happen to come from 3 very traditional, insular cultures and I didn’t fit in anywhere because I wasn’t even American enough for my white/black friends (You have no idea how much hell I got for not having a favorite baseball team). I felt extremely alienated and misunderstood as a teenager.
    Of course it is not all bad, some people have always accepted this aspect of me as just a part of who I am and love me for it and of course I have my sister, but I resisted making friends with anyone in any asian communities for many years because of the negative experiences I had growing up.
    I’m probably preaching to the choir here with my story, but I’d like to hear more from the multi-ethnic crowd and any interesting experiences you have on a daily basis or growing up.
    I now taut the fact that I’m multi ethnic, and when people ask me where I’m from I tell them “New York”

  64. jen* wrote:

    @Jasmine – I love this:

    I now taut the fact that I’m multi ethnic, and when people ask me where I’m from I tell them “New York”

    LOVE it!

  65. Thea Lim wrote:

    Ok I have now read multiple reports that refer to David Carradine’s character on Kung Fu as simply “half-Chinese.” Half-Chinese and half what??

  66. petitfours wrote:

    This post is provoking such interesting responses. Thanks so much for writing it. In my case my mother is Mayan Indian/African/Southeast Asian (a fairly common genetic mixture in Belize) and my father is Irish/Italian (aka white). I’m never really sure what to put on forms especially the ones that give you a list where you can choose to be White, Black, Asian, Native American, etc and then a separate question about whether or not you’re Hispanic. I’m not really Hispanic (especially if we consider Hispanic to be from a Spanish speaking background since my mother is from the only Central American country where they speak English) and even though my mother is certainly partially of a race indigenous to the Americas she isn’t what most would consider Native American. I certainly LOOK like a Latina so that’s how I’m most usually read but it’s only part of the story. Race can be so ill defined and being multi-racial can be a hard way to categorize yourself because people make so many assumptions about what it means. Even though I have one white parent, so I sort of fit into the “usual” view of what it is to be mixed race, my actual racial story is too complex to neatly fit into a box.

  67. BajanPolock wrote:

    I didn’t read through all the comments, so this may have been mentioned, but Cameron Diaz was originially set to star with Smith in Hitch, but when the studio did tests, some audiences didn’t like them together, so Eva was brought in. Seeing a Latino woman and a AA man made more sense to some audiences than a white/AA relationship and Diaz was out.

    http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/Will+Smith-2966.html here’s one account

  68. BajanPolock wrote:

    Oh, and I’m half-Bajan (Barbados) and half-Polish, but really it’s all a mixed bag. There’s some Scottish in my Bajan and lots of mixed Slavic blood and a little Mongolia in my Polish.

  69. Ruchama wrote:

    I certainly LOOK like a Latina so that’s how I’m most usually read but it’s only part of the story. Race can be so ill defined and being multi-racial can be a hard way to categorize yourself because people make so many assumptions about what it means.

    Plus, the interactions between ancestry and what you look like can get really odd. People nearly always assume that I’m Latina (except in North Jersey where I grew up, where they assume that I’m Italian), but the closest I’ve got to Latina ancestry is one Sephardic great-great-grandmother. (At least, we think she was Sephardic. She had a common Sephardic maiden name, and from pictures, she looks pretty “typically” Sephardic, but she was living in Poland, and I’ve never been able to figure out where her family was from before that.)

    Doing genealogy research has found me some interesting things about how the way that official forms look at race has changed. One of my relatives US immigration forms, from 1933, lists his color (white), complexion (light), race (Hebrew) and nationality (German.) Another form for the same person lists his complexion as dark and race as German. It seems like “color” is what we’d now think of as race, “race” is what we’d think of as ethnic group, and “nationality” is whatever country is currently in charge of the piece of land where you lived before coming to the US, and “complexion” is just some immigration official’s subjective judgment.

  70. socgrad wrote:

    I cosign on Robyn’s comment above.

    I know that biracial and multiracial people with 2 different race parents have a unique perspective on race and ethnicity, but sometimes I feel that in the process of establishing space for biracial / multiracial people in America we fail to recognize that black people in America *are* a multiracial group.

    It bothers me because I think that a byproduct of establishing biracial / multiracial identity as it is currently developing will be to flatten, homogenize, and limit black identity in a way that erases the full history and diverse ancestry of all the various people in America who share the identity black.

    It’s interesting that in America, Latino is an ethnicity that denotes a racially mixed population with a common cultural heritage. In most Central and South American countries this racial mixing was mainly of indigenous and white and sometimes African. However, even though black people are a mix of primarily black and white and oftentimes Native American and share a common cultural heritage, black is still considered a distinct race in America, rather than an ethnicty as Latino is.

  71. stankerbell wrote:

    I can appreciate the need to want to create language that is inclusive but at the same time I can’t help but think, “Maybe we’re over thinking this?”

    It just feels like another way to (as another poster above put it) compartmentalize people to fit into a neat little box. Being biracial, I’ve had to put up with other people trying to fit me into the boxes that fit in with their worldview and at this point I tend to instinctively rebel whenever anyone tries to label me as anything.

    The reason why I think this is an issue is because whenever there’s an article, documentary, etc about biracial people the subjects chosen are almost always white/black. That’s the issue I have.

  72. m. wrote:

    @ Mixedjewgirl:
    EXACTLY. Too many people get “race” and “ethnicity” twisted.

    As far as being mixed race and of ‘Latin’ American origin goes, I think the term ‘mestiz@’ is useful. No, I do not believe in the Latin American caste system, but I do think the claiming of this identity can be helpful in clearing a lot of misconceptions surrounding what it means to be from ‘Latin’ America or classified as ‘Latin@’. It’s not really a “solution”, but it is definitely an option.

    Eva Mendes is white, so the fictional interracial relationship portrayed in ‘Hitch’ doesn’t count. ‘Latin@’ is a European word derived from Latin used to describe (Southern) European people, so it pretty much means the exact same thing as ‘Hispanic’ (except if you are ‘Latin@’ you can be Portuguese- or Italian-speaking rather than Spanish-speaking). It makes about as much sense as classifying all anglophones (English speakers) as White. Latin@/Hispanic is not a valid racial category. Hell, it isn’t even a valid ‘ethnic’ category. There is no single Hispanic culture, but those terms *are* used to describe Southern European cultures – in Europe *and* in “Latin” America.
    On the real though, there is a huge divide between Afro-Latin@s and Indios–Mexico’s and Central/South America’s ‘people of color’–and white Latin Americans/European settlers. I’m sure Eva Mendes’ parents had it a lot less rough than all the Black folks holding it down back in their home country of Cuba. Not only that, her reality in this country is that of a white woman (in both appearance and lifestyle/culture), she is just classified differently from “other” European Americans and white immigrants due to the bizarre hang-up the federal government has re: people who speak something other than English and come from south of the “border”. As if other Euro-American people don’t have their own ethnicities and cultures/languages…
    There are also Pacific Islanders living in ‘Latin’ American “territory” (fuck that), as well as a notable Asian diaspora in Brazil and Argentina. Just goes to show how it is not only useless and meaningless, but also racist to classify so many diverse groups of people as a single ‘ethnic’ category (or, worst of all, “racial” category), lumping not only different nationalities together but also persons of color in with European immigrants and descendants of the settlers who colonized and enslaved them. (Eva Mendes on the same playing field as Black and Korean Cubans?) It also serves as a convenient and sneaky way for the federal government and U.S. citizens to further deny the existance of Indigenous peoples, which makes me sick to my stomach in like a billion different ways, but that’s another rant.

    Sorry for the long comment, but the whole “Mexican and Central/South Americans = ‘Latin@’/'Hispanic’” and “‘Latino’/'Hispanic’ = POC by default” modes of thought really get me.

  73. Joe wrote:

    I’ve never associated the word “mixed” with partial white ancestry. However, I have noticed in the mainstream media, they tend to associate mixed solely as a black and white concept, and that does annoy me. The word “hapa” itself is understood to be short for “hapa haole” (half white) in Hawaiian, but there are many other words in Hawaiian that use hapa as a modifier, which means that hapa isn’t meant to be short for half white, but half or part Hawaiian ancestry among the Hawaiian Islands. However, on the Mainland, it is associated as having an Asian or Pacific Islander mixture.

    I don’t think the solution is to introduce new words that specify if a person’s mixture includes European heritage or not, because then this goes down the same line as many other racial terms, as you’ve described in this article and also just screams political correctness. The best answer in my opinion, is to keep on using the term mixed, clarify that it means all mixed people, and only when talking about a particular group of mixtures should we specify what group, so as not to imply any kind of particular association with the word mixed. We kind of already have this with the word hapa. People familiar with the term in the US know that hapa is associated with being mixed Asian or Pacific Islander of some sort.

    Although race and ethnicity are not mutually exclusive concepts, we tend to largely associate the word “mixed” with mixed-race, but mixed ethnicities can have similar issues as us…depending on the mixture. However, breaking down mixtures by ethnicity can hurt unity, and some areas of the world are in great need of unity and don’t need a concept like this differentiating themselves to that degree. This varies on a case by case basis though.

  74. Aliyah wrote:

    im 1/2 jamaican 1/4 lebanese and 1/4 mixed white american and ghanian. mixed race is definaltely not only half wihte/half black. people who think that are ignorant. both your parents can have black, white, asian etc in them and you still be mixed race.