Going Back Like Babies and Pacifiers; Why I Love Mariah

by Special Correspondent Thea Lim

I said it once and I’ll say it again, I love Mariah Carey.

mariah
I rarely try to justify this rabid adoration when I’m talking politics. Sometimes radical folks think that just because they like something, it must be radical. I’ve seen many bloggers look foolish this way. So I try to sidestep any probing questions as to why an incredibly serious and intellectual person like me (ahem) owns a Mariah wall calendar and tends to squeal deliriously when “Heartbreaker” plays over the supermarket PA system.

Usually when people ask why I so celebrate Mariah, I say “We’re both mixed race, and we’ve both experienced heartbreak. Obviiiiiously.”

But about a week ago, while discussing Nick Cannon’s accusations that the Mariah-inspired Eminem song “Bagpipes from Baghdad” was racist and sexist, the discussion that fell out of the post made me wonder if, after all, there was some need to untangle my Mariah love and its distant political underpinnings.

A little recap of the post and discussion: in trying to defend his wife against Eminem, Cannon proclaimed that Carey was a BLACK woman (the caps are his) and that it was time enough that white men like Eminem disrespected women of colour like Carey. He went on to compare Carey to Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey, as examples of black queens that the black community should not allow to be disrespected. A lot of commenters said, “Right on, Nick!”

But a bunch said “Mariah Carey is black?” There were attempts to prove that she was not that black, by probing her bio and discussing her ethnic heritage in sixths and eights. Some suggested that she played both sides, emphasising her whiteness or her blackness according to which could sell more records, and that she was only black when it benefitted her. Some took offense at Cannon comparing Carey (who if half-white) to Obama and Winfrey (who are not half-white), frustrated by the fact that there was no recognition that Carey being light-skinned meant all sorts of light-skinned privilege, including more mainstream success than if she was darker-skinned.

I was taken aback. Truth be told I was unsure how Mariah herself identified. So I went back through the dusty internet archives, back to when Racialicious was Mixed Media Watch, to the first post I ever read on this site: Essence on Mariah Carey’s struggles with mixed race identity.

The post was interesting, but the comments were shocking. Commenters were incensed that Essence had identified Carey as a black woman. They were dismissive about Carey’s struggles with biraciality. Mostly the consensus was that Carey was a stupid rich poptart and that Essence was full of self-loathing idiots. Then again, I only read about the first 20 comments; it started to get too upsetting. The entire post garnered a whopping 240 comments: this was on a post that had very little analysis and was mostly just excerpts from the Essence article. My own post from last week was similar; it had very little of my own thoughts in it, but it managed 70 comments (as of this writing).

(I would like to note that the Essence post harkens back to a time before we had Latoya and Arturo tirelessly moderating comments and perhaps more importantly, commenters who take the time to thoughtfully and carefully state their argument…which is nothing to cough at.)

And then I found another post on Mariah Carey from about a year ago. This one was simply a post announcing that Carey and Cannon had married. But again, the conversation veered into Mariah Carey’s ethnic heritage. From commenter mariah_omg:

Let’s talk about how Mariah’s “black” father is Venezuelan and she doesn’t consider herself Hispanic but “African-American,” and only when it’s convenient!!! What happens when a celebrity who has been known to milk the “tragic-mulatto” stereotype in the past (again, when it’s convenient) marries a dark skinned black man. Will they have children? Will they be as tragic as she?

I almost couldn’t read the comments that insinuated Mariah was the worst kind of race traitor, a person who played up her blackness, her whiteness and her mixedness whenever she liked, in order to make millions to finance her Hello Kitty Castle.

Reading these threads, the feeling I had was similar to reading criticism of myself; it was as if I had written a post that was really badly received. But this is some high level cognitive mash-up: my beloved Racialicious community was talking about Mariah, not me.

The strange part of it is, what irked some commenters on the Cannon/Eminem thread the most, was that they felt MC played up some kind of tragic mulatto myth, and that she (or her husband) seemed unwilling to recognise how much white privilege had benefitted MC’s career. Strange, because that’s often the beef I have myself with mixed race folks.

When the Racialicious team converses about mixed race issues, often it is my fellows like Latoya and Andrea who express sympathy and patience towards mixed race folks’ complaints that they have been ostracised by their communities of colour for a lack of authenticity. It’s usually me who yells “Suck it up baby! What about that white privilege you got??” I quickly lose patience with any story about a community of colour terrorising half-whiteys — if that story doesn’t also include the mixed race person admitting the privilege that comes with the pain.

Yet I have never felt that Mariah plays up any part of her ethnic heritage, except to patiently attempt to explain, again and again, who her people are, and to mention in a very low-drama way, that her experience of biraciality has been a painful one.

Sometimes, the reason why we are smitten with celebrities is because we see facets of our own struggles in their lives. Or perhaps more accurately, we project our own troubles onto the vague details of celebrity lives, and then imagine that just the two of us are secret allies in the war of life.

(Sidebar: this also explains why people are still torn up over Jennifer Aniston and Brangelina: I’ll bet you that at least half the people who follow the (non) scandal breathlessly have either been left by a partner for another person, or left a partner for another person.)

In the early to mid 90’s when I was growing up in Singapore, the radio stations seemed to play a Mariah hit every half hour. We were inundated with stories of her divaishness (for example, how she refuses to have the left side of her face photographed). Every magazine seemed to feature her frolicking in denim cut-offs. I didn’t pay much attention to her, but she was still, simply by flooding the airwaves, the soundtrack to my adolescence. Even now I know every single lyric to the sicktatingly sweet MC/Boyz II Men duet “One Sweet Day,” often bursting out in unison with the radio, usually against my will.

As I sludged into my late teens, I made a big show of only listening to Fiona Apple and Ani Difranco. But I secretly knew all the words to “Always Be My Baby.” And then I moved to Canada, launched myself into the white indie rock hipster scene, and promptly forgot Mimi.

I’m Singaporean-Chinese and English-Irish, and growing up in Singapore everyone always told me I was white. Due to Singapore’s justifiable post-colonial hangover, I was often mocked for my whiteness. So when I moved to Canada it seemed only natural that I only hang out with white kids. And so when I got political, I got political alongside my white friends; I become a pseudo-vegan eco-feminist, and protested the way they protested.

But the problem for me with white radical culture, is that it is a response generally to a middle-class suburban experience. In protesting the system in the way that my white friends protested the system, I was responding to an experience I had never had. (See Latoya’s explanation for why she doesn’t relate to Liz Phair.) I felt myself slipping further and further away from who I was, until by the time I was in my mid-20s I really wasn’t sure who I was at all.

And then in a hail of pink feathers and high ‘C’s, Mariah showed me the way. In 2005 with her massive comeback, she was all over the radio once again – enough even to reach me, who never listened to commercial radio at that point. Part of the magic of Mimi is her sheer global reach: sure I could’ve been inspired by a more serious mixed cultural figure, like Grace Lee Boggs, but growing up I had no access to someone like that.

This is how Mariah found me: on a boat ride from the remote island in the Pacific where my partner was learning organic biodynamic farming techniques, a friend helped us pass the time by playing “We Belong Together” (with zero irony) on her ukulele. I was amazed by the genuine sorrow and depth of emotion in the lyrics.

A few months earlier, I had read that article on Mixed Media Watch (evidently I skipped the comments). In spite of the fact that Mariah had been crooning to me all those years, I never realised that she was one of my people. In other words, reading MMW, I realised for the first time that just like me, Mariah was mixed race.

I was hooked on Mimi. I became fascinated by her journey across racial lines; how she had essentially gone from being the female Barry Manilow to making international booty-shaking hits with ODB. As I started to reconnect with myself and finally found friends of colour who understood my ethno-culturally fractured experience, I started to think about how white-washed Mariah had been as a young woman. And how, in spite of that, she had eventually reached a point where she made music that expressed both sides of her; music that was still ABBA-esque in its ridiculous, mind-numbing poppiness, but which recalled the best traditions of mainstream hip hop and R&B.

I would never insist that Carey’s oeuvre is high art. But apart from the fact that she makes perfect R&B music, there is also something very profound in the expression of emotion in her music. Her sad songs go to the deepest places of loss and grief, and her happy songs reach such ecstatic levels of joy; she can even take a phrase like “love you long time” with all its despicable history, and turn it into a force for pure, pop-driven bliss (well, at least according to my somewhat questionable tastes).

As I began to learn that I didn’t have to be either white or Asian, as I was learning that it was ok to just be everything that I am, I listened to The Emancipation of Mimi on loop.

My confusion about my racial identity was entangled in my confusion about my gender identity. I’d taken up a kind of feminism that involved convincing myself any kind of grooming made me a tool of the patriarchy. Many women feel liberated when they put down their razors. And that was partly how I felt. But on another level I felt divorced from who I was. I grew up in Singapore, for pete’s sake, one of the most exquisitely-coiffed places you will ever visit.

I could only come back to my roots and embrace being a femme once I started to think of it as a choice, as a performance; as something I did to express my own unique sexuality, not because I had to. And who better to model the performance of high femmeness than Mariah? Where some commenters make fun of Mariah’s stiletto stilettos and satiny pink everything, I can’t get enough of her completely over-the-top version of one kind of female sexuality, her buoyant embrace of her own vision of beauty, no matter how tacky and bubble-gummy.

Via the strangest route possible Mimi really did show me that I didn’t have to be afraid of what I am. Mariah became an example of a mixed race girl who got sucked into whiteness, but fought back.

Passing is a privilege. And as I’ve said before, if you’re a middle-class mixed race person of colour, the cultural pressure is to be white. (and I do think that this pressure to be white extends to any person of colour who has a modicum of privilege, like education or money) Where historical racism worked by excluding people, contemporary racism works by including people of colour; and then white-washing them.

It is difficult to explain the angst that goes with being able to pass, without sounding like a sucky baby; because that light-skinned privilege that so many of us mixies possess comes laden with superior benefits. I’m aware of this all the time. At the same time, many mixed people who try to disassociate from their other heritages wind up with a panicked and deeply unpeaceful sense of self.

I guess some would say that that fractalised sense of self is a small price to pay for the benefits of white privilege. When I look at my life and think about all the immense privilege I have, this seems reasonable. Yet I think it’s very important to remember that acting white is not always a conscious choice: considering that cultural pressure to act white, it sometimes feels like a daily battle to assert our complete selves. I’m not sure that it is always right to criticise any person of colour who allows themselves to be white-washed.

I think this is why I look at Mariah’s early career and see her white-ification as something she eventually escaped from, rather than ran towards. She’s the symbol of the mixed race girl who asserted all aspects of her ethnicity and self, and after many label changes, failed relationships, public breakdowns and flops, finally won the battle. If anything the publicness of her failures makes me love her more; even when everyone knew her business, she never gave up trying to be Mariah.

But I understand that other people see her as a symbol of the way our culture idealises some kinds of beauty and flays others, the way it remembers and celebrates light-skinned women, and the way it buries and ignores dark-skinned women. The little firestorm of controversy that MC stirs up every time she is mentioned on this site is clear evidence that the fluidity of her race — which to me appears as a joyful overcoming — appears reprehensible to others. I realise now, after reading the comments from all the Mariah posts on Racialicious, that people despise her for the very reason I love her: the fact that she’s been packaged both as white and black. I see it as the fact that its never too late to be the person you wanted to be; others view it as an obscene kind of inconsistency, as someone who will use people and cultures to their own end, and then throw them away.

In truth none of these interpretations of Mariah have anything to do with Mariah Carey herself. Reports of how she identifies are oddly conflicting and murky; if you are curious and have time on your hands, page through all those comments on past Mariah posts. You’ll find a panoply of reader-supplied links that all seem to contradict each other. (Though she did say this very nice thing about her success scoring one for the ladies and people of colour.) The only concrete thing seems to be what Mariah symbolises, and perhaps unsurprisingly she symbolises opposite things to different people.

As much as I don’t want to admit it, I have to say that I see in her what I need to see: a very public figure whose sense of self was buffeted from all sides, but who came out intact. That’s a total projection; there’s no proof that she herself sees her life that way.

Some of the kinship that I feel with Carmen has to do with Carmen’s Keanu love. Whether or not this is why Carmen gets starry-eyed over Keanu, I know lots of mixies who will stubbornly defend Keanu, despite his truly awful acting — because he was one of the first of our people to make it big, really the only public representation of myself that I got to see growing up. (Do you have a celebrity secret ally? Dish!)

For me, Mariah will always be a reminder that you don’t have to be half of anything. She’s still my secret ally in the battle to maintain my sense of self, a figure who tells me to eff all those other people who don’t respect who I am, and just go my own way: things will work out in the end.

As the song says in all its nauseating glory:

And then a hero comes along
With the strength to carry on
And you cast your fears aside
And you know you can survive.


Photo doctoring compliments of illustrator Elisha Lim.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. the music of my life « Molecular Shyness on 03 Jun 2009 at 12:28 am

    [...] and of course there are all those posts about MC on Racial-isshas which have had me a tad fired up sometimes.  Mariah’s been part of the [...]

  2. New Words for Mixed Race People of Colour - With or Without White Ancestry at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 03 Jun 2009 at 11:45 am

    [...] this week, while writing about my affinity for Mariah Carey based on the fact that we are both mixed race, I forgot to mention something important. I forgot to clarify that, while me and Mariah are part [...]

  3. Open Thread: Eminem VS Mariah (yes, again) at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 04 Aug 2009 at 1:01 pm

    [...] like him in the video.  So why is Mariah denying that the song is about Eminem? (As you know from my history, comments like “because she’s stupid” will not be very graciously [...]

Comments

  1. Notebook wrote:

    Regarding light-skinned privilege, can you really call it privilege when you’re still rejected by not only your “majority” half or your community, but your “minority” half of your community as well?

    Yes, I suppose mixed people can “enjoy” the benefits of being part of the dominant race, but do you really think that many of the part of the dominant race will really accept them since they have “tainted” blood?

    I’m not mixed [full black], but after reading up and thinking on this stuff I can’t exactly come to the conclusion that light-skinned privilege isn’t really much of a privilege at all of you’re only going to be rejected by both races you belong to, or being confused about who you are, or being forced to accept one side over the other by society and suffering for it.

    I’m certainly not denying that privilege exists for mixed people, but I can’t imagine it being something to envy.

  2. Kandeezie wrote:

    I like this. Well said.

    There’s no need to interpret her acceptance of all parts of her mixed identity as being a betrayal. It’s very much like language and bilingual/multilingual people, where they flow in and out of their languages to find the right words to express who they truly are.

    Colonialism and racism makes people choose “sides”, but we don’t have to.

  3. jen* wrote:

    Once again, Thea, I’m totally feeling you. Seeing Mariah as a mixed girl like me has a lot to do with why I’m so into her. Well, besides her voice. From the first strains of Vision of Love heard in my bedroom (on my dad’s old radio/turntable/8-track player) to last week’s car ride blasting Migrate, I saw Mariah as the girl like me.

    We both sing, but don’t really dance [except for fun, and that one arm-shimmy move]. We both have black dads and white moms. Maybe that was close to the extent of our similarities, but that’s always been enough for me – besides the fact that I love her music, and find it fun/hilarious that she can work words like fervid, delectable, and despondent into her songs like she’s writing with a thesaurus next to her – and most of the time it totally works! :)

  4. [dave] wrote:

    Wow, this is amazing. This is why I come to Racialicious, spot on diva-analysis & identity talk. And then this stuff right here:

    This is how Mariah found me: on a boat ride from the remote island in the Pacific where my partner was learning organic biodynamic farming techniques, a friend helped us pass the time by playing “We Belong Together” (with zero irony) on her ukulele. I was amazed by the genuine sorrow and depth of emotion in the lyrics.

    Thea, you’re great.

  5. N wrote:

    white privilege don’t mean a thang when you find that the combination of ostracism and intolerance means you find yourself STILL, in 2009, on your own and out of luck and without a community.

    “passing” means different things. some people pass as white, some as “not black”. I think the former have it easier than the latter as they do end up finding a community. the others? limbo

    yeah, it may mean an easier time with jobs and not getting sweated by the man. but without a community to belong to, it can be an empty “victory”

    i do NOT like Mariah. i think she tends to be simpering and silly. interesting how things work, I have never perceived her as anything other than a woman of color. i never heard anything other than R& B in her music.

    i DO get the whole thing about the colorism of people. at the same time, as a beige person I get sick of the resentment toward me for something i had no control over- my appearance. and i get sick of any mention of my positive qualities being dismissed as colorism as if thats the only reason anyone could find me attractive. AND i share the disgust that other women feel when darker women are shunned and ignored in favor of lighter ones- do you think being objectified, being a fetish object, makes me happy?

    i grow weary of people who play the One Drop thing. people who dont ID as black are continually “outed” and attacked for not knowing who they are or being ashamed of being of African ancestry. those who do but barely look it often spend too much time answering to the Identity Police.
    either way, you end up spending your life on the defensive.

    so i support Mariah in identifying as whatever it is she wants to identify as, and i dislike people acting as if having light skin privilege somehow outweighs everything else in life and that a person who has that privilege is not allowed to ever complain about any race or cultural problems they may have. she’s in a no win situation and doin what she has to do to make it, i respect that

  6. N wrote:

    @notebook

    i live in a racially segregated town full of “homogenous” people. very polarized, the black folk are very black, the white folk are very white, VERY few people in between and there are a handful of “others”. this place is also 52% black, white privilege means very little.

    i’d rather be Wesley Snipes in a city full of Wesleys with people to have my back and with whom I could commiserate and count on for mutual support in dealing with the shit ppl deal with in this culture than *this*

    my siblings all married dark african americans so their kids would look like everyone else and fit in. i tried, my kids look like Mariah. *shrug*

    i wont go into it here, but trust me, this is for the birds and i am very resentful that my life IS a stereotype and the example people use to warn their kids about race mixing. i’m more than just an old movie plot.

  7. Jeremy wrote:

    I also know every word to “Always Be My Baby”…and I’m a dude. A straight dude, at that.

    Very well written and heartfelt piece, Thea.

  8. Alex wrote:

    Thea, you helped me realize why it is that I will continually defend Cameron Diaz to anyone who will listen. Both of my parents are Cuban, whereas solely Cameron’s dad was born on the island, but she and I are both light-skinned, light-eyed Latinas who are often accused of being “coconuts” and not understanding “what it means to be Latina,” as if it is some sort of monolithic, unchanging struggle we must all endure in the same way.

    I loved when Cameron, on some late show (Leno? Letterman?) talked about eating lechón and congri for Noche Buena with her dad’s family. I loved that she told Vogue magazine that her paternal grandmother was super overprotective and never let Cameron play outside for fear that she’s be kidnapped or break her arm, choosing instead to have her sit beside her indoors and watch telenovelas while drinking RC cola. I COMPLETELY related to her experiences and I project my own concerns and insecurities about being “Latina enough” onto Cameron’s own experiences whether she, uh, feels the same or not.

    In any case, I’m glad she’s out there and I always wish her the best, despite her tendency to make some fairly terrible movies.

  9. queerhapa wrote:

    um, that graphic is AMAZING.

    not a mariah fan myself, but more power to ya, thea!

    oh, and i know you’re mostly talking about mariah, who is half white, but a couple times in here it is implied that all mixed-race people are part white. which, obviously, is not true. just wanted to point that out.

  10. Fiqah wrote:

    This was an excellent follow up, Thea. It also helps put your lurve of Mimi into a more nuanced perspective. She represents so many things to so many people of multi-ethnic heritage; she’s kinda the de facto spokesperson. In light of all that, I won’t make any excessively rude comments about her fashion sense (allergic to sensible shoes…throws a dress on and damn near misses most of the time… schnarky schnarky schnark) or general Mariahtude. Seriously, she has one of the loveliest voices ever recorded – that’s the shit that matters.

    Since I have a feeling a certain meme will eventually show up in this thread, I’m taking this opportunity to plug Bliss Broyard’s “One Drop: My Father’s Hidden Life–A Story of Race and Family Secrets” (Oprah also endorses this book…meh) and Marlon Riggs’ extraordinary (and sad to watch) “Black Is Black Ain’t.” This is complicated, and it deserves complex treatment and reflection from multiple angles. I dunno, I feel like part of my duty as a burgeoning anti-racist is to attack SYSTEMS of privilege, and not individual recipients of it.

  11. Thea Lim wrote:

    @ Notebook and N

    I still think it’s important for light-skinned folks of colour to own their privilege. For example, I can think of a lot of white folks who will say things like “sure I’m white but I’m poor therefore I don’t really experience white privilege” or “sure I’m white but I have so much angst knowing I’m the oppressor that it’s not really much of a privilege.” Yes, definitely there are lots of things going on in our lives that complicate what privilege we might have, but it’s the same for anyone who has privilege. When I speak up, people are more likely to listen to me (or be not as surprised that I am articulate as they might be if I looked different). When I talk to cops they smile (tho they might still be dismissive since I am a woman), but they don’t clam up or, hey, shoot me.

    @ queerhapa

    Thank you! I often put a little disclaimer at the bottom of my posts on mixed race identity to note that; I forgot it this time.

    I wish there was terminology that indicated mixes that are between communities of colour and that are between people of colour and white people. Because mixed race is always assumed to mean half white/half POC, & biracial, even more annoyingly is always assumed to mean black/white. People who fall into neither of those categories but still are mixed get forgotten, and I wish there was a way to indicate what we are talking about (that is, without the perennial footnote…).

    PS I’m glad you liked the graphic. I was quite pleased with it myself :)

  12. Butterfly Ring wrote:

    Mariah can identify herself any way she wants but I do think she plays both sides of the fence regarding her race in order to appeal to a larger audience.

    BTW, in Latina magazine several years back she admitted that she didn’t even know if her Latino grandfather was black or mixed race.

    I don’t think that issues regarding identity make mixed race people more special than anyone else dealing with identity issues but I do sympathize with that damned if you do/don’t mentality.

    And yeah, I know it sounds wrong but I am still shocked that Mariah married a black guy.

  13. N wrote:

    Trust me, I could never deny that there is privilege. I am very aware of it, in part because I am able to be so UNAWARE of it. A lot of it is class, but that can be considered part of it, you can’t divorce class from color and race.

    At the same time, its like affirmative action- is EVERY success of mine going to be attributed to color or class? Can I not own any of it personally?

    I’m tired of having “white guilt”, sick of apologizing and defending and explaining. Sick of being “in” when people want me to be in, but “out” when they change their minds.

    I chose to be out and stay out, well I didn’t choose,lol. I chose to stop trying to get in. The price I have paid for privilege has been very high. Excruciatingly so. I haven’t yet gotten to the point where I’d say its been a fair trade.

    White folk with privilege don’t generally pay ostracism as a price. So to equate it to white privilege IMO is wrong. Its not the same.

  14. Lisa J wrote:

    Eloquent piece. Thank you.

  15. aimerrouge wrote:

    The comments are where I thought they would be.

    Mariah seems to have been “adopted” by everyone and her answers are acceptable to no one. I don’t know that she can do anything that will satisfy everyone. She’s in included in Black publications, White publications and Latin publications. Sometimes I think people in one ethnic group wish Mariah would claim them and tell the other 2 listed groups to take a flying leap.

  16. Fiqah wrote:

    @Butterfly Ring:

    And yeah, I know it sounds wrong but I am still shocked that Mariah married a black guy.

    ::: raises eyebrows :::

    Would you mind elaborating a bit on this?

  17. Wendi Muse wrote:

    just two things…
    1. great piece
    2. i <3 that photo!!!!!!!!!! :-)

  18. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Thanks for expanding on your views, Thea.

    If Mariah’s music is ABBA-esque, it can’t be all bad.

    P.S. Obama isn’t half-white? I thought he WAS half-white.

  19. SarahNicole wrote:

    Thea: Thanks for writing this. I’ve discussed the identity practices of bi- and multi-racials as “amorphousness,” and talked about both the negative connotations of that term and the differential ability to be amorphous based on privilege (skin privilege primarily) in some of my work. It’s nice to see a nuanced discussion of both a celebrity’s public identity work, and your own private identity work that occurs in response to that, as well as being one that also doesn’t shy away from the privilege aspect….

    I am still not into Ms. Mimi as an artist, although I recognize her skills, and have been known to get into some of her stuff. I will never get over those shoes, however. They make my feet hurt just to look at them. :-D

    @Fiqah: Black Is, Black Ain’t, along with Kendall Thomas’s “‘Ain’t Nothin’ Like the Real Thing’: Black Masculinity, Gay Sexuality, and the Jargon of Authenticity,” and Rhonda Williams’s “Living at the Crossroads: Explorations in Race, Nationality, Sexuality, and Gender” (both in Lubiano’s The House that Race Built) are some excellent pieces that examine the boundaries of blackness in particular, and fit with a larger discussion of the boundary policing involved in identity construction…

  20. Solange wrote:

    People do not give her the respect she truly deserves. I love Mariah not only does she have a beautiful voice she writes many of her lyrics which are always very well written. As far as her racial background or who she caters to, didn’t Whitney Houston do the same thing when she came out? Her market was the pop world not the r and b one. People are so insistent on boxing people in.

  21. Richelle wrote:

    Thank you; this was a beautiful post.

    I have found that it can be very hard to have a nuanced conversation about the privilege of passing, particularly with anyone who doesn’t because it’s either interpreted as taking away from the discussion of life-or-death racism, or as claiming oppression you “don’t actually experience”. It’s very validating to read about someone else’s experiences trying to negotiate the same dangerous waters, particularly when so beautifully written.

  22. Antonio wrote:

    Great piece. I love a good introspective post.

    If people have an issue with Mariah playing up both sides of her heritage for gain, I wonder if they have same issue with Barack Obama. He ran commercials prominently displaying him with his mother and her parents. The commercials essentially said “I was raised by white people” (which is, as far as I can tell, true), and seemed to be designed to quell fears of whites who are wary of his racial heritage.

  23. Just A Thought wrote:

    Not to throw another wrench in the conversation, but in reading the post and comments, I was struck by the focus on passing, as if color politics go away if your parents are monoracial. As a black woman, I’ve had to deal with racism and rejection from whites (and other non-black POC who didn’t like blacks), and color-based ostracism and rejection from blacks. People try to make you choose, try to make you justify that you are what they think you should be, and not just because you have mixed parentage. Underlying all this social pressure for mixed race people to pick a side is the focus on color, which affects more than just bi/multiracial people.

  24. Penni Brown wrote:

    @ Rob Schmidt – The Obama she is referring to is Michelle.

  25. jen* wrote:

    @ Rob – I think she was talking about Michelle not being half white. You know, since Nick was grouping Mariah with Michelle and Oprah.

  26. jen* wrote:

    @ JustAThought – you’re right about colorism not necessarily being an issue only multiracial people deal with. I have a friend whose parents are both black, and she’s much lighter than me or my sister, and we’re mixed [black/white]. She’s told me about how she’s had to prove herself sometimes, because people didn’t believe she was black.

    The colorism thing is one of those ‘things we do to ourselves/things we do to others’ issues.

  27. Taryn wrote:

    Thank you Thea! I love reading your articles. That pic cracks me up.
    To N:Say that then!!
    I am bi-racial and I don’t see myself ever having “light skinned privilege.”
    If someone can let me know what that looks like I’d like to know.
    I always felt I needed a mask to fit it to all my social and work situations. The older I grow, I realize I can just be me and take that damn mask off (that ish is heavy “) I work in a place that is mainly people of colour and it’s great because we in all our varying browns are diverse and it’s a Comfortable place to be a WOC. It’s a blessing to have that in my life, especially in the NW.
    In school I have to deal with people being ignorant, just as I do on the street, or out at a show, I could go on…
    Today I went on an interview (mind you it was all the teachers that worked there so it was 3 teachers and I in the interview)and it was mainly liberal white women and a sista that works there and this place was founded after MLK was assassinated and was a place for all children to come and be safe and taught in a culturally relevant format. So I went in and I nailed the interview because I know my ish. I’m going to school to learn about cultural relevancy, anti-bias training, social and emotional development, working with diverse families etc. etc. plus I get to take what I learn in school and directly apply to the before and aferschool program at my current job.
    So they talked to the woman who referred me to the job and they thought she Prepped me Too much. Mind you I am an assistant director at a before and after school program, have years of experience and go to school for children and family studies and psych. Oh, did I mention that already? When I go shopping I get looked at up and down, and get followed. I have people telling me I “act too white, or too black.” Or people constantly asking me what I am, or what “breed” or what I’m mixed with. Or guessing what I am, and gettin it wrong. I get called the n word, or a black B and whore. I constantly get marginalized because I’m a woman drummer and in all WOC post punk soul band. I have hate and love from both sides. Where the hell is my privilege? I am not saying that I don’t get that my beautiful dark skinned sistas don’t have to deal with bullshit and color caste system, I get that. But so often on this topic I feel further from my community because of said privilege. Like it’s my damn fault my parents fell in love and had me. And it freakin sucks. I can’t fit in with anyone, I have always been the outcast and dismissed. I’m trying to find a place where I can just be me, and I’m finding it’s coming solely from myself. Except for places like this. Thank you Racialicious cuz this feels like the closest community I have besides my partner and my band mates.

  28. Michelle wrote:

    Thea,

    What a beautiful post! I echo everyone else in praise of your writing and your voice.

    Mwah, Fiquah! I love “Black Is, Black Ain’t”. One of the most touching films about race, identity, gender identity and death and dying!

    So, I think that Mariah has earned the right to identify however she pleases. She is a talented woman who has fought and clawed her way to be where she is today. And you know what, in “show business” you gotta do what you gotta do. And she did, and she got the diamond butterflies to prove it!

    However, I just want to suggest here that identifying as a woman of color is distinct from identifying as Black woman, especially as it relates to people like Oprah and Michelle Obama, who have no fluidity in their identification. Mariah never compared herself to Black women, her husband did and he put her Blackness in caps. So perhaps she should be mad at him. However, I do feel that Mariah has been insistent in claiming ALL parts of herself and no part has ever been prominent or at the exclusion of anything else. So, perhaps she would never have compared herself to Michelle Obama. However, I do think it is inappropriate for anyone else (including her husband) to do so either.

  29. N wrote:

    @Taryn
    :) But sometimes it helps to know it isn’t just YOU, doesn’t it? That you aren’t some whiny baby making the stuff up and feeling sorry for yourself, when by all accounts your life should be the land of cake and ice cream…….

    Fitting in? Not possible where I live, but I find it peaceful on my own. Not my 1st choice, but better than the alternatives.

  30. mjoe wrote:

    Thea, this is dope. I can’t really get into the Mariah love but I so appreciate the mixed-race analysis.
    Never really thought about it before, but yeah, back in 8th grade, I remember loving “Someday” and knowing she was mixed, like me, and feeling like we shared a secret.
    Being grown and looking back, you realize how much these little things matter — seeing someone who reflects you, somehow, even tho she looks nothing like you and her life story couldn’t be more different.

  31. Death of a Dynasty wrote:

    Queerhapa is right that the article implies half-whiteness. It’s a trend that demands more than just a disclaimer. This albeit beautifully written and moving article implies that the experience of being mixed is also always about white privilege and guilt.

    Fully racialized mixed people do not have any white privilege to suffer. I’m half white, and I’d like to remind my half-white community not to abuse what privilege we have. It’s true that we are rejected by the white “majority,” but with a softer blow. Our white parentage endows us with just enough beauty standard features, self-entitlement and networks to give us access that racialized communities go without.

    We have privilege, not just over fully racialized people, but over mixed racialized people. And we exploit it: mixed conversations are dominated by us half white folks.

    We understand the grief of not fitting in. As the whitest element of mix-race conversations, we need to use our privilege to promote and support our racialized mixed counterparts, just as we would expect white allies to do for us.

  32. Thea Lim wrote:

    @Death of a Dynasty

    I agree that the experience of half-white mixed race people dominates the discourse of multi-raciality(in the US it feels like the hierarchy goes black/white folks, POC/white folks, and then POC/POC folks).

    I often think this is because white folks are always centered within our culture; a mix that does not involve white folks is not noted because, well, it doesn’t involve white folks.

    As you state, obviously POC/POC people don’t have white privilege…because they are not white! However I am sure that we share many of the same worries about not knowing where we fit.

    I appreciate that both you and queer hapa have brought attention to this. Racialicious we would love to publish an article about this, if anyone wants to elaborate on these thoughts… You are right that it deserves more than a disclaimer.

  33. Thea Lim wrote:

    @Death of a Dynasty

    PS Though I would like to say that I don’t expect white allies to promote or support me in order for me to be able to speak my experience…I don’t really like the idea that I need someone else to promote me. Or that I should be empowering them poor POC/POC mixed folks. I would characterise it rather by saying that we need to move over so everyone can talk, and not try and shut anyone up.

  34. ambre wrote:

    @ Death of a Dynasty, Thea Lim

    Thanks Thea for weighing in on the mixed POC/POC recognition issue.

    As a mixed POC/POC, I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I don’t really have the energy for a lengthy response at the moment. I will second the fact that I don’t need someone else to endorse or promote my validity as a mixed person. Being an ally shouldn’t a sympathetic gesture, but should be about taking responsibility for your own words/actions and (as Thea expressed) maintaining an equal, open and safe space for everyone. I also agree that a mixed person disclaimer shouldn’t be necessary when discussing every issue, but admittedly I often find my blood pressure rising every time I read/hear something that doesn’t recognize. Unfortunately, I’m not really sure that there is a more effective alternative at the moment…perhaps we just aren’t there yet.

  35. miwome wrote:

    I have nothing brilliant to add; I just wanted to say that I thought this was a beautiful, thoughtful, and relatable post, and to thank you for it.

  36. MariahFan2 wrote:

    What “privileges” of being white? Is it not as much a privilege and a blessing to be black? Maybe if we changed our thinking about so-called privileges, we’d recognise that each race has something unique and valuable to offer!

  37. little mixed girl wrote:

    i’ve felt a number of things about mariah, but i feel like i always knew that she was mixed.
    i like a number of her songs…i don’t like some of the diva attitude or some of the airheadedness. but all in all, i think she’s a good person who’s had a tough life.

    when it comes to how she identifies, i always thought that she identified as multiracial…but that a lot of other people tried to stick a monoracial identity on her.

    (i do agree that when talking about mixed ppl in the US, it usually revolves around half-white, biracial individuals. but i don’t think it’s limited to just black/white ppl. i think it’s almost evenly split between an assumption that all mixed people in the US are black/white or asian/white…with little to no exception.)

  38. Richelle wrote:

    @Death of a Dynasty

    “Our white parentage endows us with just enough beauty standard features, self-entitlement and networks to give us access that racialized communities go without.”

    This is certainly not true even of all people with one white parent.

    “And we exploit it: mixed conversations are dominated by us half white folks.”

    I can understand how the popular discourse, particularly as defined by the media narratives of celebrities, is often cast this way. However, in anti-racism discussions or personal discussions, my experience is that mixed conversations are usually shut down. White people don’t want to hear it, and if you speak up in non-white spaces you are accused of abusing privilege. Racialicious is the exception, not the rule.

    I don’t think it is necessarily privilege to want to have a conversation about PoC/PoP experiences. Just because I speak here doesn’t mean people who’s experiences are different can’t speak from theirs, or that I won’t listen. I don’t have to be silent for someone else to have a voice.

    Racialicious often succeeds in avoiding contests of oppression, which is why these discussions can happen here. I would hope that the same holds true for discussions of multi-racial issues.

  39. c.n. edaw wrote:

    Great post and conversation. I am learning a lot. I have had a lot of multi-racial friends over the years and even though I am black I have often been mistaken for being any number of things, but brown enough that it is a given I am at least 1/2 black. And of course, I have black friends mistaken for being not black at all, despite having two black parents.

    It intrigues me because when we speak of “white privilege” most racially aware people of all persuasions can acknowledge that it exists and the weight it carries, but when the privilege is brought up in the realm of people of color…usually referring to lighter skin tone,” European” features, etc… the level of denial that it exists and how it is beneficial is sometimes a little disoncerting to me.

    Perhaps, and this is just a stab in the dark, that is because the pain that comes with not being fully accepted by any one group emotionally outweighs (for some people) whatever fairly obvious advantages that privilege gives to that extent, that the positive is dulled in some cases to the point that the advantage really can be seen at all anymore or is viewed as a curse rather than a blessing. Sort of like when drop dead gorgeous women complain about not having been asked to the prom, yet have made millions of dollars off their looks.

    I have a black female friend with creamy vanilla skin and fine textured curly black hair who so hated being mistaken for white that she married the darkest black guy she could find. Both her parents are black but fair, and she had inherited the most phenotypically European of both their features.

    Nevermind, that the fascination over that skin tone, racial ambiguity and coupled with a pretty face got her years of being the most desired girl in our school by males (black and white and other ), a very good run in pageants, and a broadcasting career propelled by that same “wow factor” that she was this “white girl” who was really black ( kinda like Mariah, no?)

    She was just always bothered by the fact she didn’t feel fully accepted by blacks. And mind you, she really was lucky as she had no more than the usual jealous run-ins that any pretty girl will have. ( I, on the other hand, was held down at knife point in a bathroom by two other black girls who planned to cut off my hair because it was longer and straighter than theirs in the sixth grade. Can’t tell you how long it took me to get over THAT truama!)

    Yet, over the years I noticed how quick this friend was to point out to others she didn’t HAVE to straigthen her hair like other black girls or that she often tanned in the summer or how often people confuse her with being white.

    I will certainly never forget another moment that seemed to illustrate how much she took for granted the privilege that lighter skin and less African features gave her.

    We became friends with another woman-whom I’ll call Shelly– who is 1/2 black and 1/2 white but who looks phenotypically white. With light skin and golden brown, almost blonde hair.

    One day two co-workers–who happened to be white– made the comment to my friend that she must be really jealous of Shelly because “even though she’s black too, she has gorgeous white people hair.”

    At that moment she looked like something had been taken from her. Maybe it was just embarrassment, but I often thought it was a bit of that privilege she thought only she had the lock on. While I could always relate to her in the context of people assuming I wasn’t black enough and obviously not white…my darker skin and just more of a wave in the hair never afforded me any of that privelege outside the confines of intraracial relationships….sure I got certain accolades for not being dark by other black …but not to the degree she did and certainly not to the same extent by whites and others.

  40. N wrote:

    @c.n. edaw

    Interesting. I like to play devil’s advocate so let me put myself in the position of your friend. Not saying she wasn’t elitist and colorstruck, but maybe not.

    I talk about my hair and tanning and getting sunburned a lot. Its pretty much part of my daily life. I don’t mention my hair or my kids (in daily life) relative to other people’s, but I do mention the length a lot. Im a mom. Sometimes their hair is hard to deal with because its so long.

    Sometimes Im just like, awww my baby has hair to her ass, how cute!!
    When I do so, I can assure u there is no sense of racial anything there. They are my kids, I dont see them as anything but.

    Regarding the comment by the coworker- I’d have died. How dare you come to me and insult me by saying that I must be jealous because some other black woman is whiter than I am. How DARE you. How is that even appropriate?

    So not only have you put me in competition with this woman because we are both “black”, but to imply that I am LOSING the competition because I am blacker? AND to imply that I shared her ideals and thought “whiter” was better? And you’ve insulted me because the bottom line is that YOU think whiter is better and are telling me so.
    I would have been taken aback and not because I was no longer the palest thing around.

    What makes you think that being a winner in pageants and the object of desire by men is a desirable thing if its based solely on your color or lack of? I cant tell you HOW many men I have turned down because I dont feel it is my job to contribute my DNA to help them whiten their bloodlines. How many men have looked at me and within a week of meeting me commented on how “pretty” our future babies would be. I am NOT a brood mare.

    The things you see as positives- pageants, men, career are things many people see as negatives. Like you’re the bearded lady or an albino tiger, a dancing pig. Appreciated only for being an oddity, the exception to the rule. AND if your family and friends are NOT exceptions to the rule, you live with the realization that all of the acclaim you get is the flip side of the disdain and scorn others get.

    Now, I don’t know your friend so perhaps her life was all wonderful and she was complaining about nothing. And maybe she was colorstruck and elitist. Just putting another POV out there.

    Your love for me is just a reflection of your hatred for them.

  41. Michelle wrote:

    @ c.n.edaw,

    I totally feel you and your post. I also get what N was pointing to, but N, you state “pageants, men, career are things many people see as negatives.” Okay, but pageant winners get a ton of money to help pay for school, defraying horrible student loans. Men, if you are a heterosexual woman, are one part of having a stable two parent home and certainly their sperm is necessary if you want children. And finally, many health and wellness professionals will tell you that having a truly fulfilling career is a major step in achieving pride in oneself. Perhaps you would like to clarify that portion of your rebuttal? I think I know what you are pointing to but I would like to be clear about what you are saying, if you wouldn’t mind.

    Lastly, the flip side of your completely innocent remark about your daughter having hair down to her ass (which I believe you when you say is specific to your child and not about race) is that there might be a woman who hears you who knows that her daughter will never have long hair and let’s be real, there are many of us who are still caught up in long hair=pretty hair=pretty little girl. It can be like a knife in the heart to be reminded of the uphill journey that your little Black girl, with her short, tightly curled hair, will have to climb. And no, I don’t have kids. Just a fan of “The Bluest Eye.” So, I guess there is a flip side to both of your very spot on posts.

  42. PPR_Scribe wrote:

    obviously POC/POC people don’t have white privilege…because they are not white!

    But they may have “non-Black privilege.” I think what some are getting at here is not really White privilege but the privileges that may accrue from being “not Black” or “not all Black.” Or, at least, not being perceived as such, or being able to “pass” for anything other than “fully” Black. (Even, I should add, among some Black people.)

  43. jen* wrote:

    I was trying to find the video where Star Jones says that Mariah is a black woman, but it’s been taken down from everywhere I’ve seen it linked to…but I did find an old MMW post about it:

    http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/06/26/sandra-bernhard-mariahs-only-black-when-it-helps-sell-records/

    I’ll grant that we’ve still got too much colorism [as in - any, at all] going on, and light-skin privilege is real. Once we get started talking about who’s at the “real” bottom of the pile, though, it seems like we’re getting back into the “olympics” discussion. That’s not to say that people shouldn’t talk about their experience, at all. But I’m not going to get behind rating the experiences I’ve had with colorism from POCs and racism from white people, as opposed to someone who has experienced more racism from white people and less colorism form POCs.

    I’ll tell you one thing though – I’d be beside myself if I’d been in the sitch c.n. edaw described with the white coworker. I think I might’ve needed a mental health day after that. mmhmm.

  44. PPR_Scribe wrote:

    I know (and appreciate) that the main focus of this piece involves racial identity. But I am equally intrigued, Thea, by the points you make about what Carey meant for your gender identity.

    Lately the main critiques I have heard of her have to do with the appropriateness of her gender presentation given her age. (I have read similar things about Janet Jackson.) The thinking seems to be that a “sex kitten” persona is no longer believable or preferable once a woman is past, I guess, her mid 20s. Even Carey’s marriage to younger Cannon has been framed–not just as an attempt at some sort of racial authenticity–but as a desperate attempt at recapturing an age-related prestige and demographic.

    I find this idea of “age appropriate” expressions of female presentation to be as problematic as some of the racial things we have been discussing here.

  45. pinksghetti wrote:

    I’m a huge fan of Mariah Carey. Like you I also love her she has a cool spirit about her on top of her talent. She’s a great singer and her songs are so fun, catchy and heartfelt. As far as her identify as biracial or black (when as some speculate when it’s to her advantage) to me this is something she can’t help. In all respect Mariah does not look black (I’m a brown-skinned black woman) she does look more white to me (white with some ethnicity like a Jewish or Italian,IMO) . She probably was embraced more by the media (just like most people with fair skin). As a huge fan I too also recognized that a lot of the popularity she has achieved was in many ways because she could be identifiable by white people due to her skin color and by black, hispanic because of her ethnicity but her talent means she was embraced by all people no matter what race. I’ve always been at odds with my love of my girl Mariah with that she may not have been as popular if she were browner but one never knows for sure. She has spoken on how she had a bad relationship with her moms family because of her being biracial so she has had criticism from all sides.

  46. TT wrote:

    I wonder whether her more explicit forays into R&B in the past few years have to do with the fact that she’s now bigger than she once was. Maybe she realizes that she has more opportunities to establish herself as a sex symbol in the black community than in the “mainstream” aka white media. She has gained a substantial amount of weight, enough to make her “thick” and “curvy” as opposed to “slim” as she was in the nineties.