Quoted: Alex Alvarez on Seal and Heidi Klum’s “White Trash Wedding”

Excerpted by Latoya Peterson
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We can’t help but feel that if Heidi and Seal had decided to throw a “Chola” or “AZN” or “Gangsta”-themed party, the outcry would be greater, as was the case when mostly Anglo Tulane students threw a party based on Mexican stereotypes. And while we’ve been known to poke fun at the stereotypes associated with white trash culture or the fashions worn by chongas, we like to feel that being from Florida and being directly related to people whose houses have wheels and whose trucks do not (Thanks, Jeff Foxworthy) and having been something of a chonga ourself mean that our jokes come from a fondness for these cultures. Because, here’s the thing: We don’t think we’re above white people who are poor and speak with a drawl, and we don’t think we’re above girls who wear hoop earrings and think acrylic nails are pretty. We don’t think we’re above people because they choose to wear a certain style of clothing, or because they come from a certain part of a country.

We kind of get the feeling that Heidi and Seal, being kazillionaires who are not American, think they are somehow hilariously above this inherently American subculture. And, you know, t isn’t even the fact that a black man is making fun of a white subculture (Because, seriously, go ahead) or even so much that two Europeans are making fun of Americans that bothers us about this, really. It’s the fact that two extraordinarily wealthy people think it cute or amusing to make fun of a segment of the population defined by their poverty.

—”Is Seal And Heidi Klum’s “White Trash”-Themed Vow Renewal Ceremony Racist?,” Guanabee

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QUOTED: ALEX ALVAREZ ON SEAL AND HEIDI KLUM’S “WHITE TRASH WEDDING” « 100% Juicy Juice on 18 May 2009 at 7:24 am

[...] QUOTED: ALEX ALVAREZ ON SEAL AND HEIDI KLUM’S “WHITE TRASH WEDDING” May 18, 2009 Filed under: Chonga, Emigration, Fun, Jacksonville, Latina, Miami, Race, White Men, family, florida — rociorayo @ 11:24 am Original Post Here [...]

Comments

atlasien wrote:

This is not racist per se, but it’s definitely insulting, nasty and petty.

When I worked in the tourist industry in Miami, I encountered plenty of class-based anti-Americanism from Europeans. Most other people I knew in the industry built up a lot of resentment because of that, and the word “Eurotrash” was often in evidence.

We always connected “Eurotrash” with privilege flaunting and arrogant, dickish behavior. Much like what’s being displayed by Heidi Klum and Seal.

I’d also like to add that in the South, there’s not a really huge divide between “white trash” and lower-income, rural African-Americans. I’m not minimizing the effects of race and segregation, just saying that the groups have lived right next to each other for so incredibly long that they’re bound to share characteristics and ways of getting by. So when you make fun of one group, you’re also often making fun of the other.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 12:27 pm ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

So… how do rednecks and white folks feel about this? I have a white friend who proudly calls herself a redneck (but she is very liberal and describes herself as an anarchist) who have told me that sometimes she feels hurt when our black/POC friends make insulting jokes about “white trash”/redneck people. I didn’t even realize that until she told me.

I felt pretty bad about it…

Posted 15 May 2009 at 12:29 pm ¶
Ashley wrote:

OMG, I forgot that only americans wear braids and dress like characters from the play cats.

Com’mon!!!

Posted 15 May 2009 at 12:39 pm ¶
HazelStone wrote:

Channelling Nina Garcia:
“I question the taste level of this.”

Posted 15 May 2009 at 12:40 pm ¶
CDF wrote:

LOL!

Posted 15 May 2009 at 1:00 pm ¶
*Sigh* wrote:

Damn … people can’t have fun anymore without it ALWAYS having to MEAN something … to somebody!!

Posted 15 May 2009 at 1:13 pm ¶
AintIAWoman wrote:

Hmm. I say, not racist, but insensitive and classist.

You know, people LOVE making fun of white trash. I’ve been known to do it a couple times. But you know what? “White trash” is an ugly term, and though these people don’t experience racism, they experience a WHOLE lot of prejudices that come from looking like/dressing like/sounding like/having jobs like they do. Anyone ever read The Redneck Manifesto? The book isnt perfect and I think is too dismissive of racial issues surrounding black poverty v. white poverty, but its still a really interesting look about classism and how very poor white people are mocked, stereotyped, and stuck in structural inequality

Posted 15 May 2009 at 1:24 pm ¶
Evan wrote:

Making fun of poor white people is still acceptable in many American circles. Of course, Europeans like Heidi Klum will take the cue from American culture. I have groups of African-Americans and Asian-American ridicule poor white culture and I wasn’t bothered in the least. There is some merit to the ridicule.

As an urban bourgeois white guy, I admit that I look down on poor whites because I see them as uneducated people who display bigoted behavior against people of color and gay & lesbian community. I am not proud of my prejudiced view either.

What bothers me it that these fools vote Republican during every election cycle because they fear racial minorities will “take over” and Big Government will take away their guns and property. They vote against politicians who can help them get affordable health care or more funding for schools and job training. They hate trade unions even though it is unions that help raise working wages and benefits for poorer Americans. They vote against their working class interests and place their racial and religious concerns (fear) to the forefront. This is a sign of ignorance. Obama was right: they are bitter people who cling to their guns.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 1:35 pm ¶
deesha wrote:

The term “white trash” has always bugged me because it implies that “normal/regular” people-trash is/are some other color(s). I wonder which…

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:03 pm ¶
Miles Ellison wrote:

Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Pamela Anderson are living proof that you don’t have to be poor to be white trash.

White trash isn’t just name calling. It’s a way of behaving that transcends class.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:21 pm ¶
Nico Coer wrote:

I think that Seal and Heidi are just running low on Wedding themes. Since, ya know, they renew their vows Every. Single. Year.

Bids on next years theme, anyone? I think they’ve already done over privileged superstar, so that’s off the table. . .

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:23 pm ¶
Angela O wrote:

not racist. definitely classist. and tasteless.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:34 pm ¶
Paz wrote:

I find it a bit odd that they chose a white trash theme given that neither are American and therefore haven’t grown up with the same stereotypes. (And I never heard of a white woman with braids as being trashy, but anyway…)
I think there’s more outcry over a ghetto party or illegal immigrant party because of the imbalance of power — white people appropriate POC stereotypes for their own entertainment. “White trash,” while ladled with their own stereotypes and disadvantages, still hold white privilege.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:37 pm ¶
chris chambers wrote:

No, it fits. It’s not apples and oranges, it’s apples and gym shoes. Rednecks, white trash etc. have been not been groups in social-econ. solidarity with minorities. Rather–showing the power of the “fake superiority” element in racism, they have been instruments or tools of racists on power. Screw em, and bravo to Seal with his boss mullet.

Blacksnake Moan wasn’t too far off the mark…

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:41 pm ¶
Ayo wrote:

arguably Clasisst not racist.
for god sakes this should be self-evident
Heidi Klum is white. Hell she is the anglo-saxon vision of what white people “should” be

I find it very offensive that people liken trashing “white trash” to being racist. Its nauseating when you get supposedly sensible racial discourse and someone whips out “oh yeah but you people cuss white trash”

This happened over here in Britain a helluva lot with the amount of vitrol that Jade Goody got for being Jade Goody. Note, in celeb news column talking about the late jade and women like Kerry Katona, the magazines themselves would refer to these women as white trash. (heck i remember reading an Independant article where the white writer referred to her as that)

People should take a look at comments like this:
“Give me a break. Do you think “White Trash” is an american phenomenon? Europeans have their equivalent of White Trash, you know. In the UK they’re called “Chavs”, in Germany “Asi”. It doesn’t have anything to do with them being european and “not understanding American culture”. Please. Also, why do you equal white trash with being poor? There are plenty of people that I’d consider White Trash, yet they’re rich. (Celeb Example: The Hogan Family.)”

“gangbangers” aren’t a race
“Chavs” are not a race
“White trash” are not a race
“cholos” are not a race

i very much doubt many people believe in the
Wheras a A LOT of people including non-whites buy into the stereotype of black male = violent, possible rapist, drug-dealing, gangbanger

the distinction has to be applied and immediately so ignorant folk stop saying things like “reverse racism”
whatever the hell that means

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:49 pm ¶
Ayo wrote:

* believe white people are innately trashy
wheras with other races. etc

Posted 15 May 2009 at 2:53 pm ¶
geo wrote:

what kind of fuckery is this? this is highly insensitive. their wedding seems more xenophobic than racists and is assuredly classist.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:00 pm ¶
GeeLennox wrote:

I find it interesting that she chose to wear corn rows.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:03 pm ¶
SarahNicole wrote:

@AintIAWoman: I am so glad someone else besides me has read this book, recognizes its flaws, and yet recommends it!

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:06 pm ¶
Lorraine wrote:

YES.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:08 pm ¶
Aishtamid wrote:

Maybe blacks can’t be racist towards whites given the prejudice+power=racism definition, but can whites be racist towards other whites? Having grown up around privileged whites in the northeast, I’ve seen that “white trash” are hated with venom here. People who wouldn’t openly say something racist would still make fun of poor southern white people using the nastiest possible terms.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:17 pm ¶
Aishtamid wrote:

@Geelenox –

Yeah, the cornrows here don’t really make sense to me either.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:19 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:

@ deesha
God yes. There’s that. I also ere on the side of not connecting human beings with disposability or waste.

@ HazelStone
Perfection.

We get it, Heidi undSeal. You like to have fun. You don’t take yourselves too seriously, you like to have babies and you like to have fun. Great. But what is so joyous, so fun, so delightful about making light of people whose access to resources or food/drink/denim vest preferences differ from one’s own? This is really kind of grotesque at any time but . . . Economic Crisis? Did you hear?

Smells quite Last-Days-of-the-Ancien Regime to me.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:25 pm ¶
LaurynX wrote:

@GeeLennox

I found it interesting that she choose to wear corn rows too. I don’t know too many poor white folks (or rich ones) who wear corn rows.

It reminds me some show on Oxygen called “Pretty Wicked” that had a commercial w/ some (white) girl saying to looked like “white trash” and the camera zoomed in on her (big?) butt. Never seen the show, but I’ve seen all I need to see.

To quote Ayo: “i very much doubt many people believe white people are innately trashy. Whereas a A LOT of people including non-whites buy into the stereotype [that other races are].”

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:29 pm ¶
Whitney wrote:

I don’t know, I’m white, and I currently live in a more rural farming area with plenty of people who call themselves “rednecks” and I think this is pretty funny. Offensive, sure. Students at my alma mater have “white trash” parties all of the time, and no one has any problem with them. No one has spoken up about it being offensive. people have spoken about the offensiveness of Cesar Chavez day parties (where students have dressed up as the man), but never white trash parties. Why can Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable guy, who are both multimillionaires, make fun of rednecks and so-called “white trash”, but Heidi Klum and Seal can’t emulate their stereotypical style? And like someone above me said, you don’t have to be poor to be white trash. Being white trash or being a redneck really doesn’t have much to do with class, it’s more a lifestyle. Sure, white trash is more derogatory, but I don’t find them dressing up as such to be offensive. People who are rednecks are proud to be called as such, and I’d imagine they’d find this funny.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:36 pm ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:

@ Paz
What I’ve found, traveling and living outside of the States is that what might be characterized as (ugh) “white trash” in the U.S. is often read as Quintessentially American elsewhere. And clearly, they’re pretty aware of the (often confusing) stereotypes.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 3:38 pm ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

number 15 wins the best answer.

Definitely not racist, but classist, sure. To be honest, I do hate rednecks very, very much (hey, I live in Missouri).

Posted 15 May 2009 at 4:07 pm ¶
rosmar wrote:

White trash is itself a racist term, since its origin was in the belief, as some here have already noted, that other races are automatically trash.

Plus, yes, classist.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 4:12 pm ¶
Big Man wrote:

This is interesting.

I think the reason why the outcry wsa muted is because white people don’t find it insulting to them.

I mean, a subset of white people might be offended, but the vast majority don’t think this stereotype applies to them, nor would do they believe they would ever be mistaken for white trash.

On the other hand, black people are always worried that they will be identified with the worst stereotypes about black people because that’s been the pattern of behavior in America.

So, white people are secure in their individuality, while black people are not.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 4:43 pm ¶
inkst wrote:

Another vote for classist, and just plain hateful in an absurd way. I don’t understand why people are commenting about hating rednecks or blaming some ambiguous subculture for voting a certain way. Racism is rooted in hatred, and it doesn’t help the cause to turn hate and generalizations in a different direction. You’re just adding fuel to a fire of exclusion and marginalization. I grew up in a very rural area, and as kids we frequently made fun of the “trailer trash” or “smelly/scummy kids,” and I am ashamed to admit it now. I don’t see how as an anti-racist adult I can support or laugh at anti-[insert overgeneralized sub-culture here], even if it does involve white people. Like atlasien said in the first comment, nasty and petty. I do not claim that this is reverse racism, but it is hateful.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 4:50 pm ¶
AintIAWoman wrote:

@ Whitney: Yeah, but Jeff Foxworthy came from that background. He’s making fun of what he perceives as his own culture. Klum and Seal area waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far away from it.

@ Miles Ellison: I see what you’re saying & I totally agree those celebrities are ‘trashy’ but there’s still a distinct difference. Heidi Klum isn’t making a point to dress up with overly gaudy bracelets, no underwear, short dresses, and other signs of celeb trashiness. I think its clear, at least to me, these are stereotypes of *poor* whites.

Its definitely not racist. Its still messed up though.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 4:52 pm ¶
Persephone wrote:

Definitely classist.

Where “class” doesn’t refer only to money, but to family history, access to education/”cultural capital,” etc. Notice that the people being used as examples of “rich, but still white trash” are people like Britney Spears whose family was (IIRC, I’m not an expert) relatively poor and rural before she became a celebrity and made tons of money.

My husband’s family is from a very poor, rural part of the Southern Appalachians, and from that perspective I am really not okay with this sort of thing. IME *some* people in that region are overtly racist/homophobic/xenophobic, but it’s in about the same proportion as the big cities and suburbs I’ve lived in, just expressed in different ways. And when people make fun of “white trash” like Seal and Heidi are doing, they’re not making fun of someone having an objectionable ideology — they’re making fun of people being poor and not having access to haute couture or sushi or whatever it is that they think makes themselves so great.

Random point of interest that just occurred to me while I was typing that last paragraph — in a way, “redneck” culture is just a form of American culture with little or no use of cultural appropriation. What people see as “cosmopolitan” or urban is often based on consuming other cultures. So it’s sort of fucked up to create a hierarchy of sophistication based on how much you can borrow from Europe, Asia, Africa, etc, and then claim that the people who don’t have access to that borrowing are therefore more racist/xenophobic? IDK. Really it’s a pretty superficial difference.

But as a white person I don’t see the term “white trash” as, like, anti-white racist or something. It’s just classist and, I guess, regionalist? locationist?

Posted 15 May 2009 at 5:14 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:

Yeeeeeaaaahhhhhh…

Kinda been over these two since the whole Heidi talking about Seal’s “package” thing on Oprah a coupla years back. They revel in the shock/ “euw” factor and no matter what they do, if you find it objectionable, then YOU’RE the silly American with the problem. I’m totally convinced that if everyone decided to not be scandalized by Seal and Heidi – whatever they do – they’d probably divorce.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 5:53 pm ¶
Melissa wrote:

Here are my thoughts…

Has anyone here every read anything by Matt Wray or Annalee Newitz? You may find their analysis of white trash rather informative. They co edited a book on the subject and argue that “white trash is not just a classist slur— it’s also a racial epithet that marks out certain whites as a breed apart, a dysgenic race unto themselves.” While I don’t necessarily agree with everything, I do think they have an interesting argument on white trash within critical whiteness studies, racial discourse and popular culture.

Also redneck and white trash are not synonymous terms. Each has their own historical development and cultural meanings.

Also the reason why I would presume Jeff Foxworthy and other comedians like him can speak about white trash is because they come from that background. They own that identity and speak from it (however problematic).

I would NOT assume that all impoverished whites or those belonging to the cultural, socio-economic and racial category of “white-trash” display bigoted and racist behavior, attitudes or actions. Unless you are from that group or have lots of personal relationships within that group, you are speaking from and about an internalized stereotype.

And please do NOT assume that all poor whites are from the South and vote republican! Your ignorance is showing.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 6:02 pm ¶
Janine deManda wrote:

Where to begin?

How about here:

*Sigh* wrote,
“Damn … people can’t have fun anymore without it ALWAYS having to MEAN something … to somebody!!”

Ain’t that just some shit? People have the outright audacity to, ya know, perceive depths and breadths of meaning – meaning, of all the absurd things – in the world around them and in the actions of their fellow humans. Of all the nerve!

Oh, and here:

Evan wrote:
“Making fun of poor white people is still acceptable in many American circles. Of course, Europeans like Heidi Klum will take the cue from American culture. I have groups of African-Americans and Asian-American ridicule poor white culture and I wasn’t bothered in the least. There is some merit to the ridicule.”

You weren’t bothered? In the least? Hmmm, lemme guess, you’re not now living in nor have you ever lived in poverty in a rural context whilst being of {at least part} European descent?

Evan wrote:
“As an urban bourgeois white guy”

How’d I ever guess?

Evan wrote:
“I admit that I look down on poor whites because I see them as uneducated people who display bigoted behavior against people of color and gay & lesbian community. I am not proud of my prejudiced view either.”
Well, that’s a step. At least you’ve acknowledged your bigotry and are not proud of it. Next step, are ya doing anything to remedy it?

Evan wrote:
“What bothers me it that these fools vote Republican during every election cycle because they fear racial minorities will “take over” and Big Government will take away their guns and property. They vote against politicians who can help them get affordable health care or more funding for schools and job training. They hate trade unions even though it is unions that help raise working wages and benefits for poorer Americans. They vote against their working class interests and place their racial and religious concerns (fear) to the forefront. This is a sign of ignorance. Obama was right: they are bitter people who cling to their guns.”

Alrighty then, I’m gonna take that as a no. Here’s a first step for you. Take a moment to write out a paragraph of negative stereotypes about poor black people and one about poor latin@ immigrant people and and one about poor indigenous people and how about one about poor people of Asian descent. See any problematic parallels to the paragraph I just quoted above? Any, at all?

And there’s more:

Miles Ellison wrote:
“Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Pamela Anderson are living proof that you don’t have to be poor to be white trash.
White trash isn’t just name calling. It’s a way of behaving that transcends class.”

Well, golly, Miles, I’m sooooo glad you clarified that for me. Now, I can go find all those folks I’ve argued with over the years who insisted that it was completely okay for them to use an epithet I’m not going to throw around this or any forum ‘cuz it wasn’t about race ‘cuz the term could be applied to anyone, not just black people, and was about laziness, criminality, and meanness, not race, damn it!

What I told them was that it was still a racist and unacceptable term because the referent that made it a loaded insult was race-based. When Paris Hilton is called trash it’s because she is perceived as acting like what, Miles? Can you guess? A poor person, Miles. A poor person with poor ways and poor taste, and that is of course a completely undesirable and just fuckin’ ha-ha funny thing to be, isn’t it now? So, I guess I was wrong. Oh, well.

But wait, still more:

Paz wrote:
“I think there’s more outcry over a ghetto party or illegal immigrant party because of the imbalance of power — white people appropriate POC stereotypes for their own entertainment. “White trash,” while ladled with their own stereotypes and disadvantages, still hold white privilege.”

You know, although middle and upper class non-white people are saddled with their own stereotypes and disadvantages, since they still hold CLASS privilege, it must be okay for WASPy college kids to hold bourgieboho parties, right? Patrons and peasants parties? Samurai and Geisha parties? Principal Chief John Ross & co. parties? No? Why not? Oh, wait, could it be that having privilege in one system of oppression doesn’t actually cancel out being on the shit end of another system of oppression?

How I wish that were all, but no:

chris chambers wrote:
“No, it fits. It’s not apples and oranges, it’s apples and gym shoes. Rednecks, white trash etc. have been not been groups in social-econ. solidarity with minorities. Rather–showing the power of the “fake superiority” element in racism, they have been instruments or tools of racists on power. Screw em, and bravo to Seal with his boss mullet.”

Bravo to you, chris. Way to go with furthering the divide and subjugate strategy those white dudes with property thought up back in the 16th century.

Yet more:

Whitney wrote:
“Students at my alma mater have “white trash” parties all of the time, and no one has any problem with them. No one has spoken up about it being offensive.”

Oh, well, then. I guess it must not have been offensive. It’s all good. Want a cookie?

Whitney wrote:
“Why can Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable guy, who are both multimillionaires, make fun of rednecks and so-called “white trash”, but Heidi Klum and Seal can’t emulate their stereotypical style?”

Jeff Foxworthy gets to make jokes about rednecks/trash folks ‘cuz that’s who he fuckin’ came from, fer fuck’s sake – unlike either Heidi Klum or Seal. Or are you one of those people who wants to know why Chris Rock gets to make jokes about black people but that dude from Seinfeld gets in trouble for it? As for Larry the Cable Guy, he’s a piss-poor poser and needs his trash card yanked, in my opinion.

Whitney wrote:
“And like someone above me said, you don’t have to be poor to be white trash. Being white trash or being a redneck really doesn’t have much to do with class, it’s more a lifestyle.”

Really? And how would you know, may I ask? Are you a practicing redneck with class privilege coming out your damn ears? Have you experienced living in poverty while being of European descent and managed to maintain such a non-trashy “lifestyle” that no one ever hurled that particular epithet at you?

Whitney wrote:
“Sure, white trash is more derogatory, but I don’t find them dressing up as such to be offensive.”

As such? Not them, but such? So, were you trying to avoid an us/them dichotomy in your sentence or are trash folk just that far from being people in your mind?

Whitney wrote:
“People who are rednecks are proud to be called as such, and I’d imagine they’d find this funny.”

You’d imagine? Well, guess what, Whitney, I don’t have to imagine. I grew up in rural poverty, and I’m of enough European descent that white trash is not an unfamiliar epithet to me.

I have spent years of my fuckin’ life coping with the toxic classism that permeates american culture, and I’ll be coping with it for the years remaining to me, and yes, I’m proud to reclaim trash as a descriptor of my self and my experience, but you know, I don’t find Klum/Seal’s little party fuckin’ funny. At all. In any way.

Yes, there are problematic tropes threaded throughout communities/identities centered around being poor/rural/white in the U.S., not the least of which is the insistence on whiteness given that myself and the vast majority of folks I grew up with aren’t.
We’re mixed bloods of sufficient European ancestry to have whiteness projected upon us in most American contexts, but that’s not the same thing, and pretending that it is just feeds back into that whole divide and subjugate strategy mentioned above.
Hell, even for those who can in fact qualify as white under the strictest supremacist lens, shouldn’t anti-oppression politics still be availed them? Or are we still pretending that the system of class oppression in this country is only problematic insofar as it has an impact upon non-white people?

Last time I checked every other community/identity in this country struggled with problematic tropes, with ignorance, with prejudice, with the daunting task of facing their own oppressions and working to ameliorate them. Why is this community/identity the only one singled out for contempt and derision by so many people who would otherwise consider themselves progressive or liberal or leftist or just fucking informed?

And finally, thank you, thank you, fuckin’ THANK YOU to all ya’ll who posted about classism, who wrote here about understanding why dissing folks based on their impoverishment, based on their culture, or simply based on their arguable resemblance thereto is just not okay. Thank you.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 6:33 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

Wow. This strikes me as totally classist and ruralist/anti-southern. And calling any group of people trash..seriously? I know some people have said white trash is not an income thing, but from my experiance, no one really looks on the financially stable the way they look at the poor. I think there is a huge difference between calling Spears white trash and using the term to refer to someone who lives in a small rural town with few educational or employment oppurtunities and almost no access to moving up the economic ladder.
People may jokingly call Spears or Lohan trash, but when it comes to the mentality towards people who actually live in or around poverty, some people actually consider them trash. Pretty obvious we’re considered trash by the government when you look at the oppurtunities and services provided. I am from a very small southern Alabama town, and while black, know people that are considered white “trash”. And even though there is racism, the difference in living btwn. poor blacks,whites, and Creeks was negligable. I lived in a house with wheels, had a broken down car in the front, and listened to debates on the advantages of John Deere v. Snaper.And I don’t think it at all funny when financially stable asses who often think of all southerners/country people as ignorant low lifes appropriate things associated with us/them for their humor. It is so obvious we are already undergoing class warfare. The rich keep making preemptive strikes while we continue to tolerate their ingratitude. Growing up where I did, I can see why some people do cling to religion and guns. And mocking us isn’t going to change that, if anything it reinforces feelings of distrust, anti-elitism, and xenophobia (not just among white people either, my family members are well aware of how “outsiders” domestic ad foreign view us). I could rant forever on this an why it is offensive, insensitive and infuriating to me…grrrrr

Posted 15 May 2009 at 7:17 pm ¶
choreographix wrote:

“Having grown up around privileged whites in the northeast, I’ve seen that “white trash” are hated with venom here. People who wouldn’t openly say something racist would still make fun of poor southern white people using the nastiest possible terms.”

They’re making fun of poor southern white people because they’re basically being “race traitors” as far as they’re concerned. It you’re white, you have the ability to achieve more and if you don’t, you’re no better than a (choose your favorite POC).

At first I agreed that it was not racist, and, as a white person, was not at all offended by the term (I’m also from Missouri, originally). Then I read the article, and this part stuck out to me most:

We can’t help but feel that if Heidi and Seal had decided to throw a “Chola” or “AZN” or “Gangsta”-themed party, the outcry would be greater, as was the case when mostly Anglo Tulane students threw a party based on Mexican stereotypes.

It seems like the author was trying to say that It’s Not Fair, and White People Get Discriminated Against, Too, and that no one cares about the plight of the poor, rural, white American. He follows up that statement with a bunch of stuff about how it’s just not funny, because it’s being made fun of by wealthier people (one of whom is African-American). I imagine him feeling like “white trash” is something that only poor, white people can say, because he wants an equivalent to the n-word for white people, to further prove his point that Blacks Are Racist, Too!

The part of this that I’m most concerned with is the claim that many people abroad actually feel like this sums up America as a whole. Because while I do have a bit of affection for the white trash part of my family and in my area, I also hate spending time with people who are such willfully ignorant bigots.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 8:02 pm ¶
choreographix wrote:

Oh, and, let’s not forget that an often-used equivalent to “white trash” is “trailer trash.” I’m more likely to use this one, because… well, I lived in a trailer in Missouri. I’m not comfortable with the term “white trash” and can’t say it out loud very easily because of the connotations. It just sounds racist– against blacks, not whites– immediately. It’s almost like whoever invented the term was most definitely white, and had a serious case of liberal white guilt and thought that they needed to specifically single out whites in a negative stereotype, but forgot that that is gonna imply a whole lot worse that what they intended.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 8:03 pm ¶
Chris Diaz wrote:

This is narcissistic and damaging. Narcissistic people will hijack any cause or circumstance in their quests for attention and adoration.

White people and their overprivilege are being “called out”, which is appropriate. But, that also makes them easy targets. To take cheap shots against them for no discernible reason shows low character.

Walrus and Hiney only did this because 1) it was easy and 2) so they could hear their friends fawn over them (”Oh, darrrrling, that was simply a riiiiiot”) while they are out dining at places most of us would have to sell our cars to go to.

The entertainment industry is like a beacon for dysfunctional, superficial people.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 8:22 pm ¶
Medusa wrote:

I agree with the posters who said that this is classist and not racist. I had an argument with a co-worker who said I was a hypocrite for using the term “white trash” when I had a problem with other racial slurs…except that white trash is not a racial slur and has never been used to demean an entire race of people. He still doesn’t understand it.

Also, I’m not sure that her decision to wear cornrows is more interesting than his to wear a mullet, but I do recall seeing….um….lower-income white women wearing their hair in cornrows.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 8:49 pm ¶
Alex wrote:

@choreographix: Hi, I’m the author of the post Latoya quoted.

Re:

It seems like the author was trying to say that It’s Not Fair, and White People Get Discriminated Against, Too, and that no one cares about the plight of the poor, rural, white American. He follows up that statement with a bunch of stuff about how it’s just not funny, because it’s being made fun of by wealthier people (one of whom is African-American). I imagine him feeling like “white trash” is something that only poor, white people can say, because he wants an equivalent to the n-word for white people, to further prove his point that Blacks Are Racist, Too!

I’ll address your “seems to be” in order to offer a bit of clarification.

You made a few assumptions about my intentions that are incorrect. I don’t find it to be true that people generally do not care about, as you phrased it, “the poor, rural, white American.” McCain’s choice of Palin as his running mate in an effort to cater to the Republican base shows that, even superficially, white, rural Americans are on people’s minds. The Blue Collar Comedy Tour is consistently one of the most-watched programs on Comedy Central (a fun tidbit I learned while interning there) and caters to a predominantly white audience. I brought up other race or ethnicity-based subcultures and groups in order to segue into wondering why this, the lack of outcry by the public or in the media, might be – I wasn’t attempting to assign a value to one group over another, or to claim racial injustice. Fact is, I don’t know if white trash is a racist term other than, as a few commenters pointed out, the implication that white people are the only group that aren’t inherently “trash.”

I think – and excuse me if this is a jump on my part – that your claim that I seem to equate “white trash” to the term “nigger” comes out of nowhere. I recognize “white trash” doesn’t have the same historical implications and that, to my knowledge, no one’s been burnt alive for being thought of as white trash. You implication that I think the two terms somehow equal seems odd to me and I hope no one else got that impression from this post.

Again, I hope this clears that up. Also, I’m a “she.” I realize the name is ambiguous.

@everyone:

Thanks for your input and your take on this. Your responses are a huge departure from the nature of the commentary I received on the original posting. Huge. And I’m thankful.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:18 pm ¶
Alex wrote:

@ Chris Diaz: Co-sign. 100%.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:19 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:

@Tracey: I agree. I was trying to make the same point as you, but you did it in a much clearer and more immediate way.

If anyone still doesn’t “get” the connection Tracey is talking about… this is a great artistic representation of it.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:24 pm ¶
Kat wrote:

cherographix said: He follows up that statement with a bunch of stuff about how it’s just not funny, because it’s being made fun of by wealthier people (one of whom is African-American)

*******************

Seal is not African-American, he’s a black British man.

The thing is there’s no mention of this party being an “American” thing so a lot of people are projecting their own American ideas of what white trash is.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:31 pm ¶
Arabi wrote:

“white trash” is racist and classist just like the notion of “ghetto trash” is racist and classist.
Is it okay to mock and belittle, and degrade a of group of people, (whom one is defining by their race and class) simply because you don’t like the way they vote (Heres to Evan) or you presume they are all racist(Chris Chambers does)
It is funny how folks justify their own prejudice in much the same terms others use to discriminate against them.
Positioning others who dress, act, and talk a certain way as “white trash” , which essentially invokes connotations of filth and worthlessness, falls into the same spectrum as “Pest”, “Roach”"Vermin”, or something to be gotten rid of, disposed of, and essentially terminated or at best ignored.
Oh, the humanity.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:38 pm ¶
Jamelle wrote:

I’ll cast another ballot for “classist” here. I don’t think you can accurately describe the event as “racist” for the simple reason that they aren’t relying on a particular racial categorization. Instead, they are mocking the folkways of lower-income rural Americans, who are mostly – but not exclusively – white.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:39 pm ¶
PPR_Scribe wrote:

Maybe I am missing something. Did the couple actually call it a “white trash” theme? Whether yes or no, I agree that this is pretty classist. The linked article said Klum has a “Seal skin color” tattoo on her arm, and I had forgotten about the goddess stunt she pulled a while back.

So in light of that, this latest thing may be part of a larger trend with them.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:43 pm ¶
Whitney wrote:

The thing is, though, “rednecks” and “white trash” people aren’t limited to the South. I live in Northern California and I know several people from the town I live in, as well as in Mt. Shasta and Weed, who call themselves “rednecks” and who certainly live the redneck lifestyle (like hunting, etc). And they aren’t necessarily poor, either. And for some, it’s merely a lifestyle choice to live more simply. And they’re happy. There are a lot of people in Oregon and Washington who consider themselves to be rednecks, and in Alaska as well (remember Levi Johnston, Bristol Palin’s ex-boyfriend?). So I don’t think Heidi and Seal are making fun of *white southerners* specifically, nor do I think they’re making fun of “white trash”, or trying to be mean, maybe just being insensitive and classist without realizing it. I don’t know why they chose to dress up like white trash, but I do think with the recent success of comedians like Larry the Cable Guy and Jeff Foxworthy, that being “rednecks” and the like has become popular.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 9:43 pm ¶
choreographix wrote:

@Kat:

You’re right, I even knew he wasn’t American after reading a bunch of the comments. I don’t know why I said that. Sorry for being so USA-centric there, not to mention actually completely making up whatever identity I decided should exist for someone other than myself.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 10:05 pm ¶
choreographix wrote:

@Alex:

I’m sorry if I misunderstood a lot of your article (and incorrectly assumed your gender), but there were quite a few parts of it that could be easily read in a way that I’m now assuming that you (hopefully) didn’t intend.

Using Palin as an example as accepted white trash was inaccurate because she is not economically disadvantaged, among other things. People have argued that “white trash” doesn’t necessarily refer to class, but I’d say that, for the most part, it really does require a combination of poor + bigoted to be seriously considered as “white trash.” Palin was (is) the governor of one of our 50 states, so she is clearly not considered to be disadvantaged by any group. She is physically presentable, attractive (since the entire media kept focusing on what a MILF she was…), and well-dressed (anyone hear about her controversial shopping spree in Minneapolis?), and a responsible, married, heterosexual, Christian mother.

Using examples of accepted or even celebrated “white trash” culture like Blue Collar Comedy Tour, etc., is almost like saying that Jerry Springer is a good source of education about “alternative lifestyles,” like those weird dudes that wanna be chicks or something.

No one watches that and doesn’t think, “that’s SO redneck, I’m SO not like that,” or, “Oh thank God, someone else feels this way, I can embrace it instead of trying to correct it.” There’s a very specific feeling that they are trying to get out of you when they make shows that call people out on their “differences” with “normal” society, and it’s not just a light-hearted and harmless, self-deprecating act; it’s unintended, but very effective, subconscious racist conditioning.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 10:21 pm ¶
Cornrows wrote:

To the posters who commented on the cornrows–it does seem really strange that Heidi wore cornrows as part of a white trash look, but it is a bit ironic given that often poor white women who are married to black men and associate with black people and culture, especially in rural areas and the South, are deemed white trash for that reason alone by others whites. I’ve heard snide comments and jokes about Wal Mart having a lot of “fat white women” with mixed children shopping there. Similarly, I’ve heard Eminem referred to as white trash by conservative white people, but rarely for his lyrics about women and gay people or public behavior. Usually it was a comment about how *whispers* “black” he acts.

Maybe some people here use it to refer to people with certain political views or public behavior, but white trash is also used to describe white Southern culture as a whole by others, and within white Southern culture it’s used to describe certain groups of people, usually poor and often associated with minorities. The groups who some people on this board might refer to as “white trash” for liking Nascar and voting Republican would use the term “white trash” to refer to someone else entirely.
The term white trash is much more complicated, loaded and varied than some people on this board are realizing.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 10:23 pm ¶
Cornrows wrote:

@Evan
Claiming you dislike a socioeconomic group as a whole for a perceived negative behavior you attribute to them is plain old stereotyping and hateful. You may dislike conservatives and people who act and vote a certain way, but you said you look down on”poor whites.” That is not the same thing. There are poor whites who are liberal. There are poor whites who are apathetic. There are plenty of poor whites who are children–do you look down on them too, or do you wait to see a voting record?
Your concern for people of color and liberal causes doesn’t justify saying you are prejudiced against poor rural whites as whole–I can almost imagine you cringing at at a trailer park–any more than someone’s claim that they are “just concerned for women” can justify their prejudice towards Muslim men. It really startles and upsets me that someone on this board can just casually say that they look down on an entire socioeconomic group.

Posted 15 May 2009 at 10:42 pm ¶
beata wrote:

Co-sign with Janine deManda. Big time.
Medusa – Maybe you’re just a hypocrite for taking issue with racist slurs but seeing no problem with a classist slur? Hate to be snarky – I’m a hyprocite too – but this stood out to me.
Some of the comments seem to be veering into Oppression Olympics territory… i.e “White Trash” have white privilege (the most privileged privilege of all!) so who cares about the ways in which they’re oppressed?
Alex – Cheers for the article. I hadn’t been to guanabee before and will definitely be checking it out more often.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 1:06 am ¶
pm wrote:

Something that this Brit finds disorientating and dispirting about US politics is the way it often seems almost upside down. That is, the ‘left’ is made up of middle class college educated people while the white poor, indeed the white working class, are often seen as the enemy (and many vote republican). This seems the wrong way round, from a European perspective.

Obviously the US is a totally different political landscape, where race is a vastly more salient factor and there’s not much of an organised working class movement (and perhaps where many ordinary workers do quite well economically). And US politics often seems to be more about culture than economics.

Still more dispiriting is that increasingly this country (the UK) has been heading the same way. The working class, defined culturally rather than economically, seems to have become almost like an ethnic minority now, complete with ethnic slurs (like ‘chav’ or ‘pram face’). Pre-Thatcher 40% of the UK population lived in ’social housing’ – it had nothing like the implication that living on ‘housing projects’ appears to in the US. Now its about 12% and being ‘from a council estate’ is increasingly used as a sneer.

For a Brit like Seal to venture into this class snobbery territory is very depressing. I’m curious what his own class background is. Most British black people are working class, the black middle class is much smaller than in the US. According to Wiki he’s Nigerian but was adopted ‘because his parents were too poor to keep him’. I’m tempted to point out that if Seal himself came from a background that was both poor and black that makes the politics of it even more complicated. But he’s clearly no longer poor and Heidi is clearly neither so maybe not.

Assuming the article describes the ceremony accurately (which I’m not convinced it does) the only defence I can think of is that not being Americans Seal and Heidi don’t really understand the implications of what they are doing.

One could even say there’s a hint of cultural imperialism involved in the US expecting the rest of the world to be sensitive to its own domestic political sensitivities. Its not unrelated to the other thread on here about Korean hip hop. The US culturally dominates the planet, so both black people and poor whites are in the paradoxical position of being the least powerful groups in the most powerful country in the world.

Nobody outside those countries either appropriates or mocks the culture of poor Latvians or oppressed minorities in China, say, because those countries don’t impose on every other nation’s consciousness in the same way.

There’s a strangely contradictory mix of powerlessness and power involved in being the oppressed in a hyperpower. You get the ‘privilege’ of being misunderstood and messed around with by the entire world.

But having said that, a Brit like Seal, of all people, really ought to be aware of issues around social class, even in a foreign context. For Gawd’s sake, ‘class’ is one of our main preoccupations over here.

I don’t, incidentally, have a very precise idea of what exactly ‘white trash’ is supposed to refer to. Are all poor white people in the US rural?

I remember when I first heard the term (not that long ago) I found it extremely shocking. Calling people ‘trash’ seemed almost Nazi-like to me, though now I seem to have gotten used to it to the point where its lost that shock value. It’s not a term I’d use though.

It’s interesting how in the US even the idea of poverty gets filtered through racial politics. Are the white poor considered somehow even more reprehensible because they don’t have the ‘excuse’ of being black? Is disparaging them a way for better off whites to try and show they aren’t racist? What exactly _is_ going on with that category?

Finally, I would be very surprised if Sarah Palin was included in that group. She’s hardly poor.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 3:36 am ¶
Medusa wrote:

It seems like the author was trying to say that It’s Not Fair, and White People Get Discriminated Against, Too, and that no one cares about the plight of the poor, rural, white American. He follows up that statement with a bunch of stuff about how it’s just not funny, because it’s being made fun of by wealthier people (one of whom is African-American). Yeah. Seal’s not African-American. Not all black people are American, you know.

@ Beta- Yeah, I see your point. Although his point was that in saying “white trash” I was being racist towards whites, because trashy black people are called niggers….even though the term nigger isn’t selectively applied to low income people, so that argument made no fucking sense.

And I don’t get the generalizations here about low-income whites, because (I’m not certain, but) I believe that they make up a minority of white America, so middle class whites could easily never interact with them on a large scale. … Mostly my point is that I’ve met low-income whites that I didn’t think were racist or homophobic or xenophobic…it’s ridiculous to say that they all (or most) are.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 6:28 am ¶
A.D. Nix wrote:

@ Kat
(As though other clues were needed) Seal was wearing a jacket/shirt with an American flag motif when he kissed the bride.

This is response not projection.

Has anyone discussed Seal’s hair? If this is solely about class and has nothing to do with race (and knowing how easily those two are separated) why the mullet wig? Why not his own bald head? Or an afro wig? OR a cornrow wig to match the Mrs.?

Posted 16 May 2009 at 8:54 am ¶
Orchid wrote:

Thank you, thank you, thank you Janine! You ripped the words right out of my throat. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that just because someone shares the same pigment as someone who holds a lot of power in society, that they deserve, somehow, to be made fun of. Please, unless you have lived like them don’t assume you can “imagine” that “they” would find it funny. Poverty, as I’ve known and as anyone in the world would know, is NOT funny.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 9:32 am ¶
Talulah wrote:

A brief history of the term “white trash,” as taught to me during my antebellum South class in college:

“White trash” was a term applied to poor whites who could not afford slaves and–just as importantly–had a difficult time supporting themselves. It was actually a term that slaves often used for this group of people, because “poor white trash” were considered even lower than slaves on the social scale. “Poor white trash,” however, were very bitterly protective of their racial status, because it was basically all they had in Southern society. There was constant sniping between slaves and “white trash,” and the slave-owners liked it that way. It kept the two groups from uniting and mucking up the whole social scheme of slavery.

“White trash” continued to be a derogatory term after the Civil War–as other commenters have noted, poor whites were more often associated with poor blacks, and were the group most likely to be “accused” of racial “mixing.” Again, this is something poor whites tended to bitterly decry, because–AGAIN–their white privilege was essentially their only privilege.

And again, this was in the interest of the white elites of the day, because it kept poor whites and poor blacks from realizing their common interests and uniting against the Southern elite white power structure.

So is this racist? Um, yeah. Because the term itself and the ideas behind it are rooted in a deeply racist society. Or rather, societies. “White trash” isn’t a term that developed in a vacuum: it is a term that was developed to help preserve a racist regime. And as other commenters have noted, it’s still connected with the idea of racial mixing as a bad thing. Is “white trash” a term that is racist directly towards the white people it’s insulting? I’m not sure, but I don’t think it matters. Because it’s so deeply connected to all sorts of bad shit that we shouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 9:35 am ¶
Simona wrote:

“White trash” isn’t a term that developed in a vacuum: it is a term that was developed to help preserve a racist regime.”

Amen. That is the heart of the issue.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 11:18 am ¶
Evan Carden wrote:

@PM

“Finally, I would be very surprised if Sarah Palin was included in that group. She’s hardly poor.”

The problem that I’m having with a solely classist interpretation is that the term isn’t applied solely to people on the very bottom rung economically, or even people who started out at the bottom rung and worked their way out, but essentially to entire rural areas. Sarah Palin is from Sandpoint, Idaho, a town with less than seven thousand people in it (also, coincidentally, the site of the HQ for several white supremacist groups in the 80s and 90s, until the Aryan Nations was sued, and lost their compound in the settlement, I love wikipedia). Despite being relatively well off (and able to attend fourteen thousand different colleges in a row) she quite possibly would be considered white trash, or a redneck.

You can even see this in intra-state divides. The divide between Western Washington State and Eastern Washington State has produced some truly nasty stereotypes going both ways.

I’m reminded of a student in a Eugenics class I was taking here at UW who commented that she’d found that she had to drop her southern accent, or else folks wouldn’t answer her questions, they’d just laugh at her accent.

In the end, I don’t think it’s necessarily classist (or racist, except in the way Talulah explains), but it’s definitely a brand of stereotyping and given the way it’s being done here, you might even argue cultural appropriation.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 1:03 pm ¶
Miss Girl wrote:

No on gave me the memo that “race”, “gender”, “class”, etc. are now neatly separated categories having nothing to do with each other.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 2:04 pm ¶
NINA wrote:

I just created a gift certificate at work because the manager of one of our stores informed me that she is taking part in a radio station’s giveaway of a R*dneck Wedd*ng.

Racist? Not sure if its racist or classist.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 2:08 pm ¶
NINA wrote:

The term “white trash” IS racist because it treats poor tasteless whites as the exception to the rules of both whiteness and trashiness. White and Trash can both be seen as modifiers of the adjacent word depending on which context the term is analyzed in.
Part of the hatred for white trash by whites and others is that there is no excuse for it, they are WHITE. They should be able to overcome. Being white trash is a worse sin than being trash of another sort, because it is seen as a greater divergence from the norm than it is when others are trashy. One that can only be attributed to personal failings.

White people cant find any excuse for it since they are white and not genetically inferior. Non whites cant find any excuse for it since they are white and therefore privileged. So poor white trash is assumed to be that because they are just messed up no good people with no excuses.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 2:15 pm ¶
Whitney wrote:

I have a question: What do people here think of SNL’s Appalachian Emergency Room?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/1595/saturday-night-live-appalachian-emergency-room

Posted 16 May 2009 at 3:02 pm ¶
A wrote:

I disagree Atlasien, having lived in the South most of my life. I have observed poor Black people sharing a view of themselves as having more culture than what they call “White trash” (not to be confused with poor White people.) “White trash” in the South are considered the poor White people who are considered to have no class, such as not speaking the Queen’s English properly, not being educated, not caring about education, being alcoholics, drug addicts, not keeping their children clean and well groomed. Poor White people are considered people who share the same values for education, keeping oneself well groomed, taking pride in keeping your property groomed, education, speaking well, making social connections with the outside world that is for the betterment of self and society.

There is a discernment made between the two (poor Whites and “White trash”) in the South, in my opinion.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 3:35 pm ¶
A wrote:

I agree on the history you cited Talulah. The irony of poor Whites being accused of mixing with Black people after slavery is that the landowners and slaveowners mixed with Black people whether it was without consent during slavery or in secret after slavery was abolished.

You are right that the South has a history of socioeconomic class being important and this being interwined with race. The Whites who couldnt own land and could not own slaves did not have the social and financial opportunities that those things would have afforded them as White people. Their daughters and sons did not have the opportunity to marry up the socio-economic ladder in Southern society, in many cases.

In the South if you were White and had no land and couldnt afford slaves, you were nothing or irrelevant in society.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 3:50 pm ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:

Talulah and everyone who followed took the words right out of my mouth.

I grew up mostly in the South. As black woman have ALWAYS been disturbed at how freely so many of my white friends and co-workers throw around the term “white trash” and what they really mean by it.

Most blacks I grew up with, myself included, were taught that “white trash” is almost as much a racial slur against blacks as it is whites because of that history from which the term stemmed. I’m 30 by the way.

Having moved to Kentucky where the poorest of the poor whites in the country live in the Appalachian region– I still see a strong racial component in who is deemed “white trash” and most people certainly make distinctions between that and “redneck”.

A white female co-worker and I were out on a story (I’m a reporter) near an urban area when a rather plump white woman with two obviously biracial children stepped out in front of her trailer home. The woman was rude when we approached her and my co-worker said (under her breath) “Oh go back to your trailer and your black husband you white trash bitch.”

YET on another occassion in far Eastern KY where there are few to no people of color in most areas (Appalachia) we interviewed very poor, extremely uneducated whites who even called me racial slurs during the interview at some points…and my co-worker just considered them ” poor uneducated rednecks” NOT “white trash”.

I have noticed similar reaction from her and other white women I know when they see white women with Hispanic or black husbands or boyfriends–and double if the women happen to be overweight. Simalarly, if a white woman is not some Jennifer Anniston, Heidi Montag or suburban soccer mom clone married to a the appropriate white man she is suspect.

I have OFTEN heard the comments someone above mentioned about all the “fat white women with mixed kids” at Wal Mart…which by definition makes them “white trash” even though where we live and work– in the suburbs– those women economically are probably pretty well off and the black men they are married to are professionals.

Interestingly enough I hear this from white people who , quite frankly, are not too far removed from the trailer park themselves or whose parents are not at all college educated. It seems that either direct association (usually through sexual relations or marriage) with POC or things that POC are thought to do is a necessary component of being “white trash.”

Anyway, Heidi and Seal are just more proof that just because two people are involved in an interracial relationship and produce children does not mean they are free of any racial/social bias themselves.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 5:18 pm ¶
Lauren O wrote:

those weird dudes that wanna be chicks or something.

Yes, yes, let’s introduce a little transphobia into our discourse about classism and racism.

Posted 16 May 2009 at 5:21 pm ¶
Liz L wrote:

@ #32, Persephone:

Thanks- you said want I wanted to say, only coherently!

@ #35 Janine deManda

Also, you rock.

And I have to say that for a Racialicious comment thread, this has been rather depressing. Since when we do we think it cool (or intellectually honest) to talk about vast swaths of people as though they were a monolith (all poor whites vote Republican, are racist, ect) while using othering language and a disregard for their humanity?

Posted 16 May 2009 at 11:51 pm ¶
Lxy wrote:

“One could even say there’s a hint of cultural imperialism involved in the US expecting the rest of the world to be sensitive to its own domestic political sensitivities. Its not unrelated to the other thread on here about Korean hip hop. The US culturally dominates the planet, so both black people and poor whites are in the paradoxical position of being the least powerful groups in the most powerful country in the world. ”

But US cultural imperialism is related and derived from British or Anglo cultural imperialism. (i.e. the Anglosphere).

Thus, English is a global imperial language and was used as the language of state for many nations under British colonial occupation in the days of the Raj.

Indeed, English is sadly still used today by nations under Anglo imperialist domination (including countries within the U.K.)

I’d say this is a transatlantic case of Anglo class elitism.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 12:34 am ¶
DaisyDeadhead wrote:

I’m not a bit surprised… this little routine is actually already pretty common among rich suburban southerners.

Evan: What bothers me it that these fools vote Republican during every election cycle because they fear racial minorities will “take over” and Big Government will take away their guns and property.

I’ve been a lefty longer than you knew what it meant, okay?

Chris Chambers: Rather–showing the power of the “fake superiority” element in racism, they have been instruments or tools of racists on power.

Chris Chambers, every single one of us? How do you know that?

I think generalizing about ALL members of a group, is called STEREOTYPING–isn’t it?

The term “white trash” IS racist because it treats poor tasteless whites as the exception to the rules of both whiteness and trashiness.

Yes. There is trash, and then there is WHITE trash. The worst kind, because we are supposed to “know better”…Talulah, great comments. I can’t believe progressives still use the term. I have wondered if I should stop using it myself; I have personally settled on “redneck”.

Whitney: but I do think with the recent success of comedians like Larry the Cable Guy and Jeff Foxworthy, that being “rednecks” and the like has become popular.

Those kinds of comedians and that kind of humor used to be called “truck stop comedy”–since the guys performed at truck stops in the south. They made tapes and circulated them at truck stops also.

The whole cultural phenomenon only recently crossed over to the mainstream, but is in no way a recent development.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 12:58 am ¶
Mira wrote:

Thanks to Talulah & c.n.edaw for the comments about the history of the term “white trash”. Some of it I was aware of, but not all. So, yes, I guess the “white trash wedding” is racist in a sort of roundabout way, because the concept of “white trash” is part of a structure of racism in the US. But, at least for me, the reason it’s offensive is pretty obvious: it’s as if some rich folks threw a “poor person party”. Hey everyone, let’s dress like poor people and pretend we’re poor!

Posted 17 May 2009 at 1:21 am ¶
Sara wrote:

White trash is a racist, classist term.

White people may be the racial majority in the US, but using that term just keeps its racist history alive, while maintaining this ideal that white people are supposed to be better than that.

If it smells like racism, looks like racism, featured in stand up comedy, and its used by the wealthy as something funny, its probably racism.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 1:51 am ¶
Ric Reyes wrote:

You know, if it’s of any use to this topic, I’ve always found the “white trash” and “redneck” terms similar somehow to the mexican term “naco”.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 4:51 am ¶
m. wrote:

Oh, well, a mullet! I’ve NEVER seen a person with money do something *that* kooky on purpose before! Interesting hair style choice on Heidi’s part. I don’t get it, though – is she trying to be Bo Derek?

@ Miles Ellison:
“Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Pamela Anderson are living proof that you don’t have to be poor to be white trash.
White trash isn’t just name calling. It’s a way of behaving that transcends class.”
I think you’re missing the point. It usually IS the poor white folk that people make fun of when they mock “trash”, and that is classist. If the more-cultured-than-thou whites who dump on “those OTHER white people” aren’t doing it for reasons regarding class, they’re doing it for other reasons…and that’s just as problematic. How many times have we all heard of a white woman who is confident/in control of her sexuality getting called “trash” because, well, she’s a worthless slut and therefore must come from a family that just isn’t distinguished enough or “had a poor upbringing”? Frankly, I’m sick of hearing that tired-out “It’s a matter of how you carry yourself!” excuse.

Currently I am in an area (Oakland) that is across a bay of water from one of the most metrocentric places in the world: San Francisco. Despite being quite urbanized, I’ve dealt with a lot of culture shock since arriving here – I come from a long line of people who don’t glorify big buildings and Zagat-rated restaurants. Something that always astounds me about that place (SF)–aside from all the racism–is how incredibly classist the white people living there are. Let it be known that I am speaking from a non-white (and therefore, non-”white trash”) perspective, but I still recognize it (classism) when it happens. And hey, us people of color get called ‘trash’, too – sometimes for the same reasons those “lesser-than” white folks do. Welcome to San Francisco, this is what the dominant (read: white, straight, comfy background) demographic thinks of you: if you are not coming here from a noteworthy (read: well-known, easily located on a map) area on the West Coast or East Coast (preferably non-upstate New York), you are a hillbilly. If you are a woman who goes out to a bar in a short skirt, you are one of those aforementioned ‘whores’ and therefore, trash. If you are a white person who does not dabble in several different languages (usually to make up for an insecurity surrounding a lack of culture in your OWN life) you are boring and, therefore, typical whitebread. If you are white OR non-white and you cannot eat with chopsticks, then you are CLEARLY not worthy of those *cultured* white peoples’ time and therefore, you are trash.
It’s sick, it’s shallow and, above all, it’s oppressive. I don’t care what anyone says about money or class. And hey, as someone who comes from a family of brown people who do things like raise their own food, wear POW trucker caps in a totally NON-ironic way and reside “out in the middle of ‘nowhere’” (since coming here I’ve found that some non-white cultures are worth more than others as far as those urbanite white people are concerned), I have this to say to any poor/working class or Southern white people who’ve ever been called “trash” or been made to feel uncomfortable about their background: this person of color has never thought it cute, amusing or acceptable to dis you. I wouldn’t compare it to racism, but it sure as hell is oppressive.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 6:24 am ¶
RJG wrote:

Racist? No.
Classist? Yes.

No matter how dumb Britney Spears acts, no one is going to look at me and claim that I’d do the same thing. They’re just going to look at Britney and go, “once white trash, always white trash.”

Even with money, the Clampetts will be the Clampetts, but I doubt it would ever influence how people see white people as a whole.

Meanwhile, I have my doubts things would work out the same way if I was black.

When someone says white trash, they mean “well, like something a _poor_ white person would buy, redneck Larry the Cable guy shit or whatever. Trucknutz, etc.”

Meanwhile, if someone says something is ghetto, does that generally mean _poor_ black or _just_ black?

Posted 17 May 2009 at 6:50 am ¶
msday wrote:

“As an urban bourgeois white guy, I admit that I look down on poor whites because I see them as uneducated people who display bigoted behavior against people of color and gay & lesbian community.”

As a bourgeois Black American woman living in Europe, I once lived around people that you “urban bourgeois white guy” would consider poor white trash as a child on long island. They were poor but not in the least prejudiced and many of them continue to live in All black communities. All poor white people don’t live in the south and/or are racist. However, one thing that I can verify is that most “bourgeois” whites tend to treat anyone poor with disdain and make assumptions about their intelligence. I have had far less incidents than you so called “educated, liberal, affluent white people.
Having said that, yes it is racist because there are a lot of “Africans, and Europeans” abroad who feel that Americans are mixed to the point of being inferior. So scarred up Seal and Hasbeen Heidi need a reality check! When people make fun of Italians, it is seen as racist, so if they are making fun of Americans, than it is also racist.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 7:13 am ¶
gatamala wrote:

Random point of interest that just occurred to me while I was typing that last paragraph — in a way, “redneck” culture is just a form of American culture with little or no use of cultural appropriation. What people see as “cosmopolitan” or urban is often based on consuming other cultures.

YES!! Those same people will travel the most remote and impoverished places in the world to soak up “real” culture. They can “see” the value of the “exotic” underclass, but not their own.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 9:17 am ¶
Sniper wrote:

So… how do rednecks and white folks feel about this?

I mostly lurk, but since you asked: I grew up in a trailer. I’m the first person in my family to go to college. Jail is not entirely unfamiliar to many of my family members. Seal and Klum can get a couple of chainsaws and go fuck themselves.

But I wouldn’t call it racist because I tend to think of racism as a systemic thing. This was bigoted, classist and really rude, though.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 9:38 am ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:

Someone mentioned the term “ghetto” which bothers me for the same reasons “white trash” bugs me.
Although both have become fairly mainstream in usage in recent years and perhaps a fair number of folks really do believe the terms are interchangeable with “low class”–I cannot get past the notion that ultimately what they really mean is that whatever is “ghetto” or “white trash” is behavior, lifestyle, mannerisms, ideas, values that are inferior to what “decent white folk” think everyone else should think , do, and aspire to.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 5:48 pm ¶
gail wrote:

Classist. Bigoted. Offensive. Not racist. Definitely racialist: reinforcing the race-based categories and the stereotypes related to them. I’m white and have family members who fit the profile of “poor white trash” (trailer park, political attitudes, feloney convictions, etc.). I’ve internalized that bias, and even though I have a PhD, I am very aware when people begin to sneer about the experiences and behaviors that are associated with “those people.” White people don’t need to worry about being white unless they might be considered “poor white trash.” So, enough money or education lets lots of people (especially white people but not necessarily) laugh at the life experiences and culture associated with being poor, white, and rural. It may not BE racism, but it fuels a lot of attitudes that ultimately are implicitly racist.

Posted 17 May 2009 at 6:05 pm ¶
Evan wrote:

Janine deManda gives me a homework assignment.

Evan wrote:
“What bothers me it that these fools vote Republican during every election cycle because they fear racial minorities will “take over” and Big Government will take away their guns and property. They vote against politicians who can help them get affordable health care or more funding for schools and job training. They hate trade unions even though it is unions that help raise working wages and benefits for poorer Americans. They vote against their working class interests and place their racial and religious concerns (fear) to the forefront. This is a sign of ignorance. Obama was right: they are bitter people who cling to their guns.”

Janine deManda replies:
Alrighty then, I’m gonna take that as a no. Here’s a first step for you. Take a moment to write out a paragraph of negative stereotypes about poor black people and one about poor latin@ immigrant people and and one about poor indigenous people and how about one about poor people of Asian descent. See any problematic parallels to the paragraph I just quoted above? Any, at all?

Evan Answers:
BAD. The experiences and stereotypes facing poor people across all races are BAD. Is the poor white rural community any different with the suffering? NO.

I am looking at things through a political lense. Being poor in America is a shitty deal for everyone. So you would think an overwhelming majority of poor people of ALL races would favor policies that lift all boats?

Majority of Poor Blacks vote liberal/Democratic

Majority of Poor Latinos vote liberal/Democratic

Majority of Poor Whites vote conservative/Republican

What’s wrong with the picture here? Why are voting patterns between poor whites vs. the minority poor are so far apart?

Posted 18 May 2009 at 12:11 am ¶
Chantal wrote:

The irony here is, of course, that Southern poor whites are typically descended from whites who were actually too poor to enter into the slave trade. I love Racialicious, and really wish that you would encourage a larger and more sustained discussion about class on the blog. From middle-class blacks denigrating their welfare class brothers and sisters to the obvious tensions that exist between blacks and poor whites, (and even middle-class whites and poor whites!) it seems that this is an issue that deserves its own series. We might do well to learn from the examples of Claude McKay, Langston Hughes and Paul Robeson, major black figures who saw the struggle of their race mirrored in the struggle, across the water, of Russian peasants. They began to feel, to different degrees of course, that you cannot separate race from class but also, and perhaps more importantly, that what we share with poor whites is our economic oppression and our lack of access to power. I sometimes worry that our (well-founded) obsession with racial difference threatens to obfuscate the reality of the economic conditions we share on a larger scale.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 10:18 am ¶
Eva wrote:

I don’t see how this is either racist or classist Just because you’re poor doesn’t mean you have to be trashy. They were making fun of people who act trashy and you could have tons of money and be trashy.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 3:08 pm ¶
pm wrote:

@Lxy

You’re right, I think. I was half-heartedly thinking perhaps a defence for Seal might be that he has no idea what the meaning of this stuff is and maybe it was just based on memories of watching Dukes of Hazard and the like on TV as a kid. But then I realised he was doing it _in the US_, so I think that’s a non-starter. So yeah, either he and Heidi are simply obnoxious rich folk or they’re just both rather…odd.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 3:23 pm ¶
c.n. edaw wrote:

Majority of Poor Blacks vote liberal/Democratic

Majority of Poor Latinos vote liberal/Democratic

Majority of Poor Whites vote conservative/Republican

What’s wrong with the picture here? Why are voting patterns between poor whites vs. the minority poor are so far apart?

While covering the last election in Kentucky I observed this phenomenon consistently in a poor mostly white state which only has two major urban areas with signficant minority populations–which were one of just a few counties here to go Democrat in the election.

Otherwise, all the but the very poorest county which had double digit unemployment before the recession ( and which has less than 5 , yes really, 5 black people living there at any time and at last check no other people of color) voted Republican in the last election. Many of those poor whites were quoted in newspapers and on television that they simply could not vote for a –their words, here–”a colored man” for president. No joke.

But beyond that, these people could quite accurately be described as putting certain polarizing issues they are unlikely to have to deal with on a daily basis above their obvious economic/social needs–abortion, gay marriage, affirmative action, the ten commandments in government buildings , prayer in school, military etc…you name it I heard all of these as reasons they could not vote for a Democrat despire the fact most people feel all these issues are ,or should be , trumped by not being able to feed one’ s family.

My take on it is that they– just like African Americans— suffer from the lingering affects of slavery in much the same way. They are still in the mindset that they must align themselves as much as possible with what they view as the respectable white establishment-the modern day Republican Party-and distancing themselves and keeping that tiny wedge that seperates their condition from being similar to blacks.

All they’ve got to hold onto to in this day and time as far as being “superior” to blacks is having white skin and espousing “white values” and until a lot of things change within the Republican party– right now there’s no bigger more self evident brand of whiteness than waving the GOP flag.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶
RCHOUDH wrote:

This latest stunt by these two reveals their arrogance towards the poor; so what if the poor being mocked at in this case happen to be white? It’s still stupid and inconsiderate of them to not realize that by making fun of poor whites, they are indirectly making fun of the plight of ALL poor people! Just like I would call people out (usually fellow South Asians) on their condescending attitude towards poorer South Asians in the matters of dress, behavior, manners, speech, etc so I call out these two for their condescending attitude towards poor individuals who in this case just happen to be white Americans. If you find making fun of poor people so amusing, then I wonder how thoughtful and generous you would be towards helping them out by donating to charites and by bringing out greater awareness about their situation within society.
And the mocking of poor whites helps to keep the “up by your bootstraps” ideology intact so that greater structural inequalities can continue to be ignored by the ones in power (which really harms all us powerless folks in the end).
As for the notion that poor whites are racist, I think we should avoid stereotyping them that way. Like someone else already mentioned, there are some members of this group who have no problems associating with and marrying POC.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 3:45 pm ¶
N wrote:

I work with a lot of poor whites. Some would be termed “white trash”. My coworker (and closest friend in town) is relatively poor and white and the grandchild of sharecroppers. We discuss our respective rural grandparents frequently- hers from Alabama, mine from Northern Appalachia.

She does use the term “redneck”, but I’ve never heard her say “white trash”. Her kids have been hassled in school for having black friends, her own family was aghast when they had black playmates stay the night at their house and when black pallebearers were at her dads funeral. THOSE are the people she(and others) calls rednecks and its related to race and bigotry more than income.

When using the term redneck she means “racist old school southern white people”. When used by many southern whites it isn’t used as the urban cosmopolitan person would use it, but to differentiate poor rural whites from poor rural racist whites.

FWIW, I grew up with ppl who use the term but I don’t because in the 20 years I’ve spent in Georgia on and off, the white trash has been pretty damn good to me. Decent people who treat me with respect and humanity, people who an outsider would see and presume to be racist bigoted assholes.

Many of my best friends have been “white trash”, MOST of my friends have been and are “white trash” and while I had never thought of it, perhaps part of what makes them “trash” is their refusal to refrain from socializing with non-whites. The one married to a black man. The one whose grandkid is part Korean. I do think the perception is that these people are so low that the best they can do is marry Negroes and fraternize with the colored and Mexicans. So its not even seen as a sign of their decency as humans, but as a sign that they can’t be accepted in proper white society.

I get upset when POC and others presume that all poor, southern and traditional white people are secretly KKK members. I see people who are poor and disenfranchised, who despite white privilege are WAY WAY less privileged and further down the socio-economic ladder than I am. And its ugly to be cruel to people because of their poverty or backgrounds and to presume that white privilege is always enough to overcome all the other problems people face in this society.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 3:51 pm ¶
jaye wrote:

I’m going to wade into this really complicated topic, that I personally think needs to be separated into several different topics. I get what Evans is saying, and I’m going to agree with him, although I might take it a bit further, and Evan – I’m sorry if I use your words to take it to a place you didn’t intend or agree with.

I know a few people who could be considered ‘white trash’…I guess what is meant by the term, is ‘poor white people’. If that is the definition, then yeah, these “white trash” individuals I know are some of the most creative, intelligent, determined, open-minded people I’ve ever met…way more anti-racist than some of the educated, liberal, “upper-class” friends I’ve also had along the way.

That being said, I’m also looking at this situation from a political lens. The “white trash” I’m talking about is from an American perspective…they are a powerful voting bloc, even if economically and socially they are as disadvantaged as any other minority group, other poor minority groups do not have the political force that they have. This makes them uniquely powerful, and gives them a special influence, even as they are economically oppressed. But they have used their political power to, as Evans said, “vote against their working class interests and place their racial and religious concerns (fear) to the forefront. This is a sign of ignorance.” Now, I know not EVERY SINGLE individual from a poor white working class background has done this, but have you seen a map of voting patterns in the U.S.? I don’t think it’s being stereotypical or prejudiced or racist or classist to NOTICE that IN GENERAL, as A POLITICAL AND SOCIAL GROUP, poor white working class people have managed to practically have a stranglehold on the political process in the U.S. Just like many black political groups needed to get self-reflective about the way they voted AS A GROUP on Prop 8 in California, and take a look at their own prejudices…I think white working class need to own up to their own tendencies to take out their economic and social powerlessness on other minority groups. Rather than addressing the roots of their economic subjugation, they do cling to their religion and guns…did Obama say something that wasn’t true? No…but it almost cost him the election, because they couldn’t bear hearing the truth, and they wanted to punish the politician who was honest about who they were.

Have you seen what passes for news on Fox? Obama puts mustard on his hamburger…he’s elitist. Obama can’t bowl…he doesn’t really understand us. Fox news does this because it works. Hillary Clinton knew the the appalachian area could swing the election her way, because she wasn’t ‘politically correct’ about it, she was honest about their racism. That area is by and large, a racist voting bloc, and she tried to use their prejudices to win the election. Every racist and religious stereotype of Obama was trotted out during this election, because it works with a large segment of the white working class. They want to hold onto their racism, their prejudices, they want to VOTE AGAINST the interests of minority working class, including their own…as a group, they have wanted to blame other minorities first for their economic hardships…they have not worked with other minority groups to forward the rights of the economic underclass. Obviously, not EVERY SINGLE white working class group has been like this, many have connected with minority groups and worked together. But once again, go back to the map of voting patterns in the U.S., as A GENERALIZED GROUP, the white working class have gone a certain way politically, Conservative politicians have recognized this and used it to their advantage, and to the detriment of minority working class populations. White working class people realize they are a powerful voting bloc…and what do they do with that power – help black and latino working class groups across the U.S.? No, they want their politicians to give them an idealized, illusory image of themselves rather than tell them the truth. So when a couple of idiot celebrities pop that bubble, they want the PC-police to come to their defense now?

Posted 18 May 2009 at 4:14 pm ¶
Tara K. wrote:

@ Evan: You did not just call poor whites “fools.” Wow, could your post illustrate these issues more?

Why do states populated by poor whites go red? About a gazillion reasons, one of which being intense religious loyalty. Secondly, there’s generally always low voter turnout. And who is LEAST likely to make it to the polls? Oh, the poorest.

I don’t see how this is classist without being somewhat racist when it’s mocking a subculture that is largely recognized as belonging nearly exclusively to one race.

I should say here that I’m from eastern Kentucky. As an Appalachian, I can’t help but get pretty hostile when I hear people who grew up with more privilege and opportunity explain how people like me are just uneducated, racist, and bigots. Having busted my ass nonstop to not only go to college but also grad school, having been on welfare growing up, having been on food stamps, I so appreciate your highly researched insight into me, my family, and the culture. Having spent my adult life advocating for gay and lesbian rights, racial equality, and feminist issues, I’m so glad you can recognize that deep down I’m just a big, ignorant honky.

You just can’t say crap like that. We’re not so “othered” as to have not yet discovered the internet, you know. Some of us did manage to find us one of them there big ‘ole fancy computers.

Just be grateful. Be grateful for what you have, and recognize that we are all in a power of privilege over someone else. And while you may criticize them for legitimate conflicts of belief or practice, you should never degrade from a higher position.

Posted 18 May 2009 at 11:33 pm ¶
N wrote:

I live in the boonies of Georgia. And while there may be a poor white voting bloc that believes that by supporting the white elite they too can become part of that elite and share in the dream, there are a fair number of these poor whites who voted for Obama, voted for Carter and don’t support the good old boy network.

And while I do get what you say about the voting to uphold the status quo, I hesitate to equate it with desiring to hold POC down. While religion is not my thing, I respect the importance others place on it and it is not for me to say people are racist or backwards because they prioritize banning gay marriage and abortion, for example, over social and economic equality. It is not for me to tell them to put the other issues first, just as it is not for them to tell me to put religion over social issues.
And because of the nature of Christianity, there are plenty who believe that it is more important to not have gay marriage and abortion than it is to fight for economic equality because their reward is to come later, because Jesus will in the end hook up the poor and downtrodden who followed his rules and punish those who are worldly wealthy but immoral.
I disagree. But I know enough people, even those of color, who feel that upholding Gods rule and creating a more Christian society is done by voting Republican.

Posted 19 May 2009 at 9:43 am ¶
Evan wrote:

In response to Tara K:

I had no problem calling 55 million people who voted for George W. Bush in 2004 as FOOLS. All of them were FOOLS! Republicans represent a wide swath of socio-economic groups. I have no doubt that the upper middle class and the mega-rich gave 100 percent support to the GOP Party and the eight-year Bush reign of terror over this country. Unfortunately, the majority of poor whites were hooked by Republican scare tactics. Karl Rove did a great job of painting Democrats as out of touch, liberal elite snobs. You want ugly stereotyping: there’s a sound example. Ridiculing urban, educated people as snobs and as oppressors resonates with poor, working class whites. The Republicans use this playbook during every election period and it works.

I have voted like a FOOL as well. Making a decision because of one’s party affiliation or because of one, push-button issue. Democracy is a dangerous thing when you have un-informed people voting at the election polls.

But I do know this:

When a voter places religion above science: He is a FOOL.

When a voter places war above peace: He is a FOOL.

When a voter places xenophobia over diversity: He is a FOOL.

I make no apologies here.

Posted 19 May 2009 at 11:35 am ¶
9jah wrote:

I am black. I think this is RACIST! On the part of Seal, per se racist and on the part of Klum playing on racial stereotypes. For one, in the perjorative “white trash”, trash is qualified by “white” so I don’t understand how it is just classist.

The comments that highlight racial imbalance of power as a justification why there would be more outcry over a ghetto party completely escape me. In each case, a group is being subsumed to a couple of lousy caricatures with distinctive racial qualities (overlooking the fact that Klum’s braids are a poor effort at the stereotype anyways).

Even carrying the imbalance of power argument to its logical end, the subgroup being ridiculed here is at an equally low end of the racial/economic spectrum as well.

The terms “redneck” and “white trash” limit the targets to their outward appearances and circumstances, stripping them of any other human dimension. I don’t use the terms because it is essentially the same effect as black perjoratives

Posted 19 May 2009 at 12:54 pm ¶
Tara K. wrote:

@ Evan: The world does not exist in these dichotomies. The rhetoric you employ is oversimplified, bumper-sticker-type slogan material. It shows judgments and assumptions, and that’s all.

Posted 19 May 2009 at 5:23 pm ¶
ktrujillo wrote:

Evan, Evan…Me thinks thou doth protest too much. In your dorm room mirror I’m sure you’re part of the solution but you are in fact part of the problem.

Posted 19 May 2009 at 7:47 pm ¶
Evan Carden wrote:

@Evan

There’s a difference between wrong and foolish. I believe that the Republican party and those who belong to it are wrong on essentially everything, but that doesn’t make them stupid, or evil, or even foolish.

“Democracy is a dangerous thing when you have un-informed people voting at the election polls. ”

I don’t know what to say to that, really, I don’t.

I don’t know, or get to know why you voted the way you did so (barring psychic powers) how do you know they voted the way they did out of folly, or because they were hooked/tricked/whatever rather than out of actual beliefs?

But I forgot, any belief you don’t personally hold is a mark of folly.

Posted 19 May 2009 at 8:25 pm ¶
m. wrote:

@Evan: It’s the urban, “educated” white people like yourself that have always frightened me the most. See, individuals like you are repeatedly given a pass when it comes to your behavior(s)/thoughts/ideas – despite supporting/enforcing a system that oppresses Indigenous peoples/persons of color like myself. Sure, poor/working class white people are just as capable of these evils (racism/homophobia/sexism), but they’re the ones that so-called “progressive” people like you sit around pointing fingers at…meanwhile no one is allowed to question it, because you are Above It All.
Perhaps I am wrong, though. It could be true that a college education, an obsession with “diversity” (oh God gag me) and an ability to one-up people who vote Republican/conservative is all it takes to rid one of any “foolish” ideas or behavior. If that is the case, then your kind must be the downest, least oppressive white people on Earth. Damn…

FYI: ‘Latino’ is not a race (you keep using them as an example, so…) and it might be a good idea, coming from where you’re at, to state what context you are using the word “poor” in. Some middle-to-upper class-informed idea of ‘diversity’ and ’science’ is not the polar opposite or answer to xenophobia and religion. Glad to know the black and white world that many of your kind (liberal urbanites) live in seems to be working out so well. Your perspective is mired in whiteness, though, so you are no better than the poor ‘fools’ you demonize.

Posted 20 May 2009 at 12:49 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:

***MOD NOTE****

Oh, is this thread ever pissing me off.

Now, I have to do a follow up post. But until then:

1. DON’T make generalizations about any group.

2. Making dismissive or derogatory remarks about white people is not permissible – see comment mod policy.

3. Get back on topic – any further comments about politics will be deleted.

4. Any white people who think they are doing POC a favor by reading this blog (by the way these comments were deleted), you can leave, virtual door to the left.

For fuck’s sake, people.

Posted 20 May 2009 at 11:07 am ¶
Whitney wrote:

@Evan: I think that you really don’t understand people who come from more rural areas. I was like you too. I thought many of the same things, and then I moved from a more urban area, to a more rural area, with kinds of people I had only seen stereotyped on TV. Sure, a lot of them drink and smoke and like to hunt and have a bit of a twangy accent and are religious, but they aren’t stupid, nor are they fools. I think you’re seriously underestimating these people. Not everyone is brilliant, but they’re just some of the nicest people I’ve known.

Down south (in so cal), people aren’t so nice. Here, I can walk around downtown, or walk in the park, and smile and say hi to people I don’t know, and they smile right back and say hello, how’re you doing?

I find it to be a bit insulting that you consider these people to be uninformed. They have a right to vote, just like you do, and it’s a very dangerous line you tread when you start talking about how only “informed” people should vote, or only the educated, or place any kind of qualifier on the right to vote. How exactly are they uninformed?

Our country already has a history with those kinds of unjust practices, down in the South about forty-fifty years ago. You’re flipping the tables: first it was blacks who had to pass “tests” to be able to vote (or pay money, or do something) to prohibit them from voting, and now you want to do the same with ‘”uneducated” whites. I think the only qualifier to vote is to be an American citizen, and be over 18. You might not like that people who aren’t as “smart” as you can vote, but that’s what this country is about. It’s what our country was founded on: equality (even though it took 150 years to allow women to vote, and roughly 200 too “allow” blacks in the South to vote). Whether you like it or not, they are considered equal to you under the law.

These people are not bad people. What makes you better, anyways?

I’m a poor white. I am not on welfare, but I barely make my rent and barely have money to buy food with, and I am lucky because the cost of living is low where I live. I am also considered a Republican because of my fiscal beliefs, and I have voted Republican. I have also voted Democrat. I am also very pro-gay marriage, and very much for gay and lesbian rights, I am also pro-choice. I also have a college degree. I’m also quote excited about learning how to use a weapon from my boyfriend, an Army vet. So what am I to you? You can’t lump people into a neat little box like you did.

You talk about how mad you were that Karl Rove stereotyped liberals as out-of-touch, elite snobs, well guess what, you just embodied that stereotype wholly. If you want people like yourself to not be stereotyped in such a way, stop acting like it.

That being said, I would also like to take back a few of my comments I made previously on this post, I thought it over and realized that my comments were incorrect and that this is, in fact, offensive and classist. So thank you to those who have commented, you have changed my perspective.

Posted 20 May 2009 at 3:57 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:

uhmmm,yeah. I just say this older racialicious post on Seal and Klum.
http://www.racialicious.com/2008/11/14/on-cultural-appropriation-halloween-and-beyond/
Yeah. Maybe they’re just unique. Really, really unique.

Posted 02 Jun 2009 at 12:48 am ¶

Quoted: Alex Alvarez on Seal and Heidi Klum’s “White Trash Wedding”

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