The Princess and the Frog and the Critical Gaze [Essay]

by Guest Contributor Shannon Prince

Two years ago while I was studying abroad in Paris, my younger sister called me from the U.S. giggling that she had delicious news to share with me. She announced breathlessly that Disney was creating its first black princess movie. Despite the fact that I was a sophomore in college and my sister was a senior in upper school, we all but swooned.

Oh, I had my reservations – as someone who is African American, Native American, Asian American, and English American, it seemed that Disney had misrepresented the better part of my various heritages. I’m not even talking about the crow named “Jim Crow” in Dumbo or Peter Pan explaining that sexual attraction “makes the red man red” – I’m talking about superficially pro-multicultural films such as Pocahontas whose moral seemed to be that the indigenous warriors who fight in defense of sovereignty are just as wrong as imperialists fighting wars of conquest and Mulan which taught the valuable lesson that Chinese people are cool, if misogynistic, but the Huns are a mass of gray-skinned, barely human, rampaging savages. (The Huns were even seemingly identical in many frames, lending credence to the stereotype that the individual members of some Asian ethnic groups cannot be told apart.)

Given Disney’s history, it’s no surprise that criticism of The Princess and the Frog began early. Some elements of this criticism I found more valid than others. At first I saw no problem with protagonist Tiana’s original name “Maddy,” although some people said it sounded too similar to “mammy.” However, once I learned that “Maddy” was a maid, the phonetic similarity between her name and the slave title did seem as though it could be unwieldy. A voice actor’s tongue wouldn’t have to slip very much to say “mammy” while ordering Maddy to do a chore, and in such a context, the name “Maddy” seemed both deliberately inappropriately evocative and easy for the audience to mishear. On any account “Maddy” struck me as decidedly less whimsical and resonant than “Ariel,” which is of Shakespearian provenance, and “Jasmine” which is a treasured flower in the Middle East, but I’m not quite willing to label as Disney racism what might just be my own cynicism. (Disney did not have to name its other six princesses as they had names already from their original fairy tales i.e. Cinderella or from history i.e. “Pocahontas” was the real nickname of Matoaka.)

Just as Disney changed the name of its protagonist to “Tiana” (which, to me, sounds much more appropriate for a fairy tale princess) it has also changed her from being a maid to being a prospective restaurateur. I had been on the fence about our heroine’s role as a southern belle’s maid. Yes, it’s cannon for fairy tale protagonists to begin their stories having low status, but a black heroine who is a domestic could be legitimately read not as a fairy tale trope but a reinforcement of real world racial denigration. Some may claim that it would be historically accurate for a 1920’s black woman to be a maid, but Disney doesn’t even care about historical accuracy when animating actual history (for example, Pocahontas.) Disney films often include generic European landscapes and eras and anachronistic details and social conventions. Let’s consider Beauty and the Beast. Did French peasants like Belle’s dad really have the time and resources to invent complicated gadgets? Should Belle have had access to so many books or even have been literate? If Disney allowed history to delimit their characterizations, at her age Belle should have been out of her father’s home and in her own thatched roof house with a husband and a couple kids– and had far less teeth. Deciding to suddenly be historically accurate while telling a fairy tale about a black princess seems a little suspect. Not to mention after decades of singing candlesticks and flying carpets, it’s a little late in the game to start claiming a commitment to realism.

Although I didn’t agree completely with all the criticism directed at the film, I was disturbed when some whites were angered by some blacks having concerns with The Princess and the Frog, framing Disney, and white society as a whole, as the victims of unreasonable blacks who weren’t content with the gift Disney, and by extension, post-racial America, had given them. It is important to remember that Disney’s aim is not to serve any community but rather its own bottom line. Creating The Princess and the Frog is not a handout to black people any more than all the films starring white princesses were special gifts to white people. We didn’t beg Disney for a movie with a black princess nor is there any onus on us to be content with the movie or any aspect of American society out of gratitude or to remain silent in the face of issues we see as needing improvement because someone decided to throw us a bone. The condemnation of black criticism from some whites suggests that black people are peripheral citizens or customers who are eternally the recipients of aid and should be perpetually grateful.

What’s especially unfair about those who condemn blacks who criticize The Princess and the Frog is that whites, as a race, are not condemned as ungrateful or otherwise for critiquing the numerous white Disney princesses (or society at large.) Whites have taken Disney to task over white princesses’ independence, agency, body size, beauty, and intelligence among other things. There are academics and writers who have built a discipline out of critiquing Disney – particularly its princesses. While some whites now paint Disney as a desperate corporation scrambling to alter Tiana and assuage the endless demands of blacks, they fail to note how Ariel was the headstrong response to white complaints about obedient Cinderella and Belle was the feminist response to white criticism about willing-to-give-up-her-voice-for-a-man Ariel. Whites have made countless demands about their heroines, and Disney has altered their creations in response to those demands. Yet whites also know that if any given princess isn’t pleasing, in a few years another will be created. This is the first and most likely last black Disney princess. After all, while Disney repeatedly makes white princesses, it has yet to create more than one princess from the same minority ethnic group. In that light, it’s important to get Tiana right on the first (and probably only) shot.

Another charge levied at black critics of The Princess and the Frog is that they are trifling to “waste time” getting agitated over cartoons. But the fact is all media, especially those directed at children in their formative years, shape how people see and interact with the world. That’s why fairy tales have morals and Sesame Street has educational value. Children are especially malleable by media because they haven’t or have just begun developing critical thinking skills and are just getting their first and foundational impressions of the world.

Disney recognizes the power of media. The company has often used its films to political ends. For example, Donald Duck was placed in a series of World War II films designed to make children passionate supporters of American troops and enemies of the Nazis and the Japanese army. Then later, Donald Duck was used in the films Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros to promote Franklin Roosevelt’s Good Neighbor policy towards Latin America. Clearly, if cartoons were “just cartoons” Disney wouldn’t make such films.

I have my own concerns about The Princess and the Frog. First, Tiana, the black princess, is paired up with a white prince (or at least a prince who looks white and is voiced by a Brazilian actor who also looks white) who has to save her from a black villain. Some might argue that portraying interracial marriage in film is good – but why then weren’t any of the white princesses given non-white princes to save them from white villains? And since Disney doesn’t give white princesses non-white princes, isn’t this interracial relationship at the expense of black boys who deserve a hero just as much as black girls deserve a heroine? Originally the prince was explicitly reported as being the jazz-loving monarch of a European country. By giving the prince an olive, but still white, complexion and a Brazilian accent, Disney gets to go forward with their original white hero yet make him ambiguous enough to not be unequivocally criticized as white at the same time. Furthermore, there’s a disturbing racial subtext to this plot. As intellectual Gayatri Spivak says, one of the main justifications of colonialism has been “white men saving brown women from brown men.” Here, that racist and sexist notion is invoked. The plot also follows Disney’s pattern of making their evil characters more “ethnic” and darker than their good characters. For example, the Chinese have wheat colored skin in Mulan while the Huns are dark gray. Aladdin is tan with European features while Jafar is brown with Arabic features.

My most serious concern, however, is the way voodoo religion is treated in the film. The prince is turned into a frog by a bad voodoo “magician,” the black villain, and when Tiana’s attempt to save him by kissing him turns her into a frog as well, the two of them must seek the aid of a benevolent voodoo priestess. Most of what people know about voodoo comes from inaccurate information both in fictional entities such as books and films and in ill-informed news stories where in a far-flung country (even one outside of West Africa, the home of Vodoun) the latest depravities of someone labeled a “witch doctor” or the perversely violent beliefs that have taken hold of a population are called voodoo. Voodoo isn’t seen as a specific religion but as a synonym for magic or superstition in a variety of broad contexts. It’s analogous to a film showing white characters adhering to wacky/sinister beliefs a scriptwriter invented and the film referring to it as Christianity or news media referring to any odd or egregious action taken by white people of any faith as Judaism.

Vodoun is a West African religion that was carried by slaves to the Western hemisphere, primarily Haiti and Louisiana, where it became known in its new forms as voodoo. Voodoo is a complex syncretic belief system that draws on African traditions as diverse as those of the Ewes and Dahomeys, the faith of the indigenous Tainos, and Catholicism and Islam. The foundation of voodoo is not charms (which attract the most outside attention) but monotheistic faith, belief in saints and spirits, and a focus on moral values such as charity and respect for the elderly. People do perform rites for protection and defense, but suffice it to say that voodoo is not about being a magician or a fairy godmother. Yet the rites performed in voodoo, when not exoticized and exaggerated past any semblance of accuracy or entirely fictionalized, are typically considered superstitious magic by non-practitioners while rites in Christianity – such as the belief that you can lay hands on people and cast devils out of them or anoint people with oil and heal them – are not.

To underline how offensive The Prince and the Frog’s version of voodoo is, imagine if another religion were treated as a system of enchantment that could be employed for good or for ill. Imagine if the prince had been changed into a frog because a Catholic priest, referred to as a magician, who is wearing a Roman collar but seems to exist in a separate universe from the actual tenets of Catholicism, sprinkled him with cursed water from a baptismal font, and the only way for the prince and Tiana to save themselves was for them to get the pope-wizard to feed them magical communion wafers. It’s because voodoo is an African religious system that it can be treated with such license as though it weren’t a real religion like Christianity or Hinduism.

The last thing that concerns me about The Princess and the Frog might be termed Esmeralda’s Eyes syndrome. In the Disney movie The Hunchback of Notre Dame, which had its own racial problems, the Romani woman Esmeralda, in the film referred to as a gypsy, has deep brown skin, black hair, and bright green eyes. Now I know that people whose skin isn’t beige, including those among the Romani people, don’t necessarily have brown eyes – my own great-grandfather was a golden skinned man with lovely baby blues, but Esmeralda’s eyes didn’t have the naturalness of Sharbat Gula’s. The vivid aquamarine shade of Esmeralda’s eyes jarred distractingly with her skin. As a child watching the film I was struck by how my sister and I would have had a heroine, or at least a hero’s love interest, with exactly our features if only Esmeralda’s eyes had been brown. So many girls, whether they were Romani, black, Pacific Islanders, or South Asians, could have finally seen themselves reflected in a Disney leading lady if that one small detail had been changed. I felt, rightly or wrongly, as though Disney had made Esmeralda’s eyes green to keep girls like me from identifying with her, to thwart us, to show that in order to be beautiful or worthy of headlining a Disney film you had to have at least one European feature, and animators were determined to provide Esmeralda with one even though it clashed alarmingly with her other features. I felt as though Disney were saying to whites, “Yes, Esmeralda is non-white, but not really.”

How does this relate to The Princess and the Frog? When I read the plot of the film I felt disappointed to learn that the heroine spends a significant chunk of the movie not as a black princess at all but as a frog. After decades of waiting, would it be too much to actually see an hour and a half of a black princess on the screen? I can’t help but think that Disney would never hide a non-black princess away in animal form for a large part of a film – maybe because they never have. This is a fairy tale with a white prince and a black princess who, for much of the movie, isn’t a black princess at all. Perhaps in the scenes where Tiana is hopping around in her toady body whites in the audience will forget how melanin-endowed she was in the movie’s opening and identify with her. Still, I can’t help but wonder if The Princess and the Frog came down with a case of Esmeralda’s Eyes syndrome – if this was Disney’s way of saying to white audiences, “Yes, Tiana’s black, but not really.”

Despite the fact that I’m an arguably political person, I can still remember the elation I felt when my sister told me Disney was making a black princess. Even while I knew about Disney’s poor track record with race, I was willing to put everything aside and start them off with a blank slate. One of my favorite songs is “Part of Your World” and the scene in Beauty and the Beast where the Beast gives Belle the castle library still makes me smile. Disney magic is potent. For many young girls Disney is a primary root of day-dreams and imaginative play. They are invested in the stories Disney tells and the characters Disney invents. Disney’s images, songs, and stories become deeply rooted in American culture and people’s family and personal histories – that’s why a visit to Disneyworld is an almost mandatory event in American childhood and people scramble to get Disney films before they are locked away in the “Disney vault” as though they were precious treasures – for many people they are. The idea of Disney’s prodigious musical and artistic skill focused around a black princess delighted me – so I regret that I’ve had to switch from wonderment to wondering why the trailer reveals that the film’s obligatory animal sidekick is a firefly who is missing teeth – and the ones he has are crooked. (I mean, really, Ariel gets a calypso-singing crustacean, Cinderella has mice that can sew, and the black princess gets a raggedy half-toothless firefly – when she isn’t spending the movie being the animal sidekick herself. Sorry, I’m through with my digression.) Even despite all this the little girl in me who still wants a pair of glass slippers hopes that Disney will get it together and produce a movie worthy of the generations long wait of all the black girls, some of them now grandmothers, who have been hoping for a black princess.

But maybe I’m just believing in fairy tales.

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  1. The Princess and the Frog and the Critical Gaze [Essay] at b…/b | miley cyrus Canada blog on 13 May 2009 at 12:19 pm

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Comments

  1. Jeremy wrote:

    This is an incredible and eloquent essay, Shannon.

    I only have one question: Are the white critics of past Disney movies the SAME whites that are criticizing black critics of this movie? It’s not exactly clear, but certainly a possibility.

    Fascinating read.

  2. Amused0472 wrote:

    Great post. I think it’s time for POC folks with clout–Will/Jada?–to go out of the Hollywood/Disney system and make a black fairytale movie. Cosby had success on the small screen with Fat Albert and there is Little Bill. It should not be too hard to make a fantasy cartoon featuring a non-racist portrayal of a black princess.

  3. Anon wrote:

    Good post.
    Your ‘Esmeralda Eyes’ theory hit a bit too closely to home. Forget the debate on “good hair’ or ‘bad hair’ in the African American community. I always noticed how much attention light (seen as non-POC) eyes got you. Any color but dark brown in order to elevate you to ‘exotic’ and therefore deserving of attention – status. Me being me, I skipped the desire for hazel eyes and day dreamed that I had sparkling amethyst eyes.
    -
    But overall I was pleased enough with Princess Tiana’s appearance. I think, because of how heavily marketed towards girls these movies are, they would have done something to her features to make her more white in appearance, rather than make her a frog. I can’t see the frog flying off the shelves too quickly vs. a doll.

  4. Leslie wrote:

    This was fantastic. Very well written and thoughtful. I agree that it seems as if Blacks critique this film, somehow we are whining or not being grateful for this gift we have been given. Craziness! And I love the fact that you broke down the historical roots of voodoo, considering it has been widely misunderstood and relegated to the realms of some kind of scary “black magic” , for lack of a better term. Interesting. I’m going to post about it on my blog so my readers can take a look.

  5. kenda wrote:

    I did not have high hopes for this movie (we all know Disney’s reputation when it comes to representing historically marginalized groups) but even with my low expectations I was disappointed when I found out that Tiana spends a good part of the film as a friggin frog!!! Is it really too much to ask for a 1.5 hrs of a brown skinned protagonist on the screen?!!

  6. blip wrote:

    I can see the TV promos in the weeks leading to THE PRINCESS & THE FROG’s opening now…

    I predict the princess (in the black female form) will disappear a little bit with each new commercial and the frog will prominently take her place.

    It seems black women are still too controversial to be loved, recused, saved on-screen by a romantic partner. I bet Tiana will spend most of the film being the “strong black woman/frog” and workhorse, helping everyone else.

  7. Me2 wrote:

    I found out about this movie much the same way you did, my sister calling me excitedly from far away to let me know there was going to be a black Disney princess. There was a flurry of phone calls that day, back and forth among the women in my family.

    And while we are critical about the Disney Princess movement for so many reasons, we can’t help but to be just as excited as the little girl in our life about Princess Tiana. The fact that it is set in New Orleans makes it even more exciting for her, because not only does Tiana look like her – she comes from the same town!

  8. Sherbear wrote:

    This was a good essay!

    I wasn’t surprised that the prince wasn’t black. Even though I wanted it, a part of me knew there was no way the two main leads were going to be black. But I didn’t care because at least we’d get to see a black disney princess in a lead role on the screen.

    Then I watched the full trailer for the movie.

    I was shocked to see that she turned into a frog. And I thought “Great, she’s only going to be black for the first 15 minutes of the film.” I just felt really disappointed and let down. It does feel like Disney is saying “Yes, Tiana’s black, but not really.”

    I feel badly for the little girls who only get to see her on the screen for such a short period of time. I’ve always loved hand-drawn animation, so I’ll probably still go see the movie though.

  9. WhatANightmare wrote:

    I enjoy reading anyone’s opinion on this new animated feature, but ultimately I always come away feeling like this is too little, too late.
    There’s so much drama surrounding its creation! I think everyone is scrutinizing it so much that it’s taking the life and enjoyment out of it for everyone involved (audiences and creators alike). Perhaps it is just because I was young when the other films come out, but I’m think that this is going to be the most poked and prodded Disney feature out there!

    And I also want to point out that most Disney princesses have multiple sidekicks and there is usually a goofy one. Mulan had several! I think the firefly is supposed to be the goofy one (think Scuttle, Mushu, GusGus) and the alligator the more funky one (Sebastian, the cool cats from Aristocrats, the crows).

    I don’t mind them using voodoo, but then again, I’m not a voodoo practitioner.

  10. [dave] wrote:

    Great thoughts. I totally hear you on that in-spite-of-how-crap-Disney-is feeling of elation on hearing about them making a black princess movie. You really drew out the emotions behind that.

    and (i’m going to try html-ing this, but i usually screw it up so sorry) … “I mean, really, Ariel gets a calypso-singing crustacean, Cinderella has mice that can sew, and the black princess gets a raggedy half-toothless firefly – when she isn’t spending the movie being the animal sidekick herself.” …. spot on. like what the hell?

  11. Medea wrote:

    I agree with everything you wrote, though I have to say, this

    Imagine if the prince had been changed into a frog because a Catholic priest, referred to as a magician, who is wearing a Roman collar but seems to exist in a separate universe from the actual tenets of Catholicism, sprinkled him with cursed water from a baptismal font, and the only way for the prince and Tiana to save themselves was for them to get the pope-wizard to feed them magical communion wafers.

    would be kind of cool. It’s the sort of license one can only take with a powerful religion, though, not a faith that’s already misrepresented and little understood in mainstream culture.

  12. Antonio wrote:

    Disney was walking into a minefield with this movie IMO. They’re attempting to make a movie set during a time when this country’s racial politics was at its ugliest post-slavery, a time that many people remember vividly. They’re attempting (or rather should be attempting) to portray a black woman coming of age in those times without being too gloomy, sidestepping stereotypes, and not be branded “unrealistic” by making her life too sugar-coated. No matter what, I think they’ll face some criticism because everybody has different expectations of what a black princess would/should be. In regards to the prince, I’ve read that he’s biracial.

    I don’t really get the Esmeralda Eyes thing. Because this character had one feature that differed from yours, she’s unrelatable? How are her eyes “European” when other Romani people can have non-brown eyes?

  13. Anonymous wrote:

    brilliant

  14. L wrote:

    “Here, that racist and sexist notion is invoked. The plot also follows Disney’s pattern of making their evil characters more “ethnic” and darker than their good characters. For example, the Chinese have wheat colored skin in Mulan while the Huns are dark gray. Aladdin is tan with European features while Jafar is brown with Arabic features.”

    I understand where critiques like this come from, and in many cases this is absolutely true. But in the case of the Huns, while they were definitely drawn as ugly/evil/barbaric/faceless, I wouldn’t call them more “ethnic” looking, or at least what Americans would see as more ethnic-looking Asians.

    In Aladdin’s case, I’ve been surprised lately to see that some people see him and Jasmine as more white looking while the villains, i.e. Jafar are more Arab looking. As a Middle Easterner I find it kind of offensive. I’m not discrediting the entire notion of making ethnic “heroes” more white and vice versa; I’m fully aware that it has existed for quite some time. But I wonder– what does it really say about the viewer, who sees the good/attractive guys as “white-looking” and the bad/ugly guys as “ethnic-looking”?

    I’ve heard the same sentiments about Tiana from this film. On Jezebel people have already commented that she doesn’t really look that black. I say: How??? I wonder if people who see it like that would prefer characters with super-stereotypical, exaggerated pickaninny looks.

  15. MelMel wrote:

    It’s Disney. The next trick they turn is going to be a film lauding the benefits of eugenics.

  16. pololly wrote:

    Phenomenal post. Every point was 100% correct.

    Write moar plz.

  17. McLiah wrote:

    Why WOULDN’T Esmeralda’s eyes be green, since “Esmeralda” means, well, “green?” It’s the character’s original name from the original book, written in the 1800s, and I have trouble believing she got her name because of her green hair or lips or skin.

  18. Miles Ellison wrote:

    G iven Disney’s roots in the minstrel tradition, is anyone really surprised at the negative aspects that were pointed out? Does anyone really believe that all of the hard wired racism has completely disappeared?

  19. Alyssa wrote:

    Great post. Thank you. I am also saddened to see that the princess spends so much of the film as a frog.
    @Antonio: Yes there are Romani people with blue eyes, so the blue eyes aren’t necessarily non-Romanian. However, this feature does not reflect the majority; so you have to ask, why use a feature that isn’t as common? Being that this is a feature that is more common for Europeans, it is hard to ignore.
    I compleatly get the Esmeralda eyes theory. As a young girl, I thought I’d be beautiful if I just had my father’s blue eyes. I think it would have been helpful to see a “beautiful” main character that had a dark complexion and brown eyes.

  20. Alston wrote:

    Being grateful that we get to be portrayed at all makes me think of those that tell me that I should be grateful that I am allowed the same rights as white people, or (because of where I am) French people.

  21. Nadra wrote:

    This was a really great analysis!

  22. CDF wrote:

    Decent piece. I never got into romantic cartoons regardless of their “hidden” agendas. If these folks making these types of flicks want to remain left behind, so be it!

  23. Erica wrote:

    OK, if I’d thought, I should have remembered the Frog Princess fairy tale involves a princess who is a frog. But I am shocked to see that they’re actually going to have the princess BE a frog for most of this film. Really, how are we supposed to NOT see that as a TOKEN black princess appearance?!?

    This is the first and most likely last black Disney princess. And that’s pretty damn sad. My daughter is five so I am sick to death and beyond of princess everything — but EVERY little girl should have the chance to go through that girly princess big poofy dressup bullshit if she wants to, and overdoing the white princesses is both ridiculous and unfair.

  24. JT wrote:

    @McLiah: I think that point was adressed in the article actually. It’s not that Esmerelda had green eyes, it’s that she had shockingly green eyes that kind of jar you. Like Shannon said, less natural Sharbat Gula, more Ethnic, but not *too* ethnic.

    @Shannon:

    Excellent post!

    “I can’t help but think that Disney would never hide a non-black princess away in animal form for a large part of a film – maybe because they never have. ”

    I almost raised you one Swan princess before remembering that movie had nothing to do with Disney.

    I loved your point about the treatment of Voodoo, but I was torn about the Prince “looking White,” point. Like you said, the accent and skin color say otherwise, but when you really look at his conceptual art, he looks like a mildly altered version of Edward from Enchanted (who was v. White.) I think it sucks, but I am more happy with the interracial development than I would have been with the European Prince.

    (Although, maybe that was Disney’s intent. I can relate this “well, *at least* they’re trying to do such and such” phenomenon to the upcoming Avatar film, where the casting directors and Producers think injecting a few Black/Asian background characters to balance out out their utter Whitewashing of a concept that was specifically Pan Asian makes everything “more diverse” Kind of a quick cleanup in an attempt to distract from a larger problem)

    Completely empathic to the “Esmerelda’s Eyes” thing as well. Very good point <3 I think TV tropes has a similiar point called “Black, but not *too* Black” I was too busy being scared of the Leader of the Hun’s beady-yellow-eyes (eep.) to really register the rest of him, but I did notice the differences in Aladdin v. Jafar. In fact, Aladdin was modelled afer Tom Cruise, the obvious epitome of Non-White heroes.

    “Another charge levied at black critics of The Princess and the Frog is that they are trifling to ‘waste time’ getting agitated over cartoons.”

    UGH. That arguement will never die.

  25. Slush wrote:

    I saw this commentary in the Baltimore City Paper several weeks ago, and it’s a different take on some of the same issues, but from the eyes of a black parent…

    http://www.citypaper.com/columns/story.asp?id=17805

    Also – L wrote: On Jezebel people have already commented that she doesn’t really look that black. I say: How??? I wonder if people who see it like that would prefer characters with super-stereotypical, exaggerated pickaninny looks.

    I kind of agree with this, but it also reminds me of a really enlightening Racialicious discussion about Manga characters and the race/phenotypes of cartoons as very much in the eye of the beholder…I have no idea what that post was called…

  26. McLiah wrote:

    I have to think that emeralds, by nature, ARE shockingly green. They stand out. Otherwise they’d be called “green rocks just sitting there on the ground” and not emeralds.

    So it’s difficult for me to take seriously criticism of a character named Esmeralda, which obviously hints at the jewel, being called out for having eyes that, like the jewel, also stand out.

    It just seems as ridiculous as endless discussions of who’s black/brown/pick your color enough, who’s not black/brown/pick your color enough, as if there’s some specific standard of what or who is the “right” shade. As if too little or too much of one hue is so OBBBBVIOUSLY right, and everything else is offensive or degrading or wrong.

    If I worked in the film industry, I don’t think I’d make any attempt to include people of any color other than my own on the screen at all. And that’s definitely limiting.

    But what’s the point, if everything from the specific shade of green of a particular character’s eyes to their name to their clothing to their shape will only be put under a microscope in ways more ‘mainstream’ characters most likely won’t? Why would ANYONE in any creative or decision-making position in the media actively subject themselves to that kind of scrutiny when it’s so much easier just to stick with the same old same old?

    I thoroughly understand the argument that if someone doesn’t point racial issues out that they’ll go unnoticed, but it just seems so awfully defeatist in so many ways.

  27. Paz wrote:

    -”Pocahontas whose moral seemed to be that the indigenous warriors who fight in defense of sovereignty are just as wrong as imperialists fighting wars of conquest” – How that you get that message? To me, it seemed that the indigenous were portrayed as people who honored the land and nature, while the Europeans were there to exploit and be greedy.

    -”Aladdin is tan with European features while Jafar is brown with Arabic features.” Excuse my ignorance but what are Arabic features? Or Europeans for that matter? A white Irish, Ashkenazi Jew, Roma or Basque do not all look alike. I understand the subtle racism in that Jafar has an accent and is darker skinned, but I just don’t believe you can generalize their features so broadly.

    -There was a crow in Dumbo called Jim Crow?? Seriously, Disney???

  28. Nacey wrote:

    Wonderful post. I’m so sorry Disney has done this. I’m angry too, even though I’m white. It’s just not fair. I wanted to see Tiana throughout the whole movie, gorgeous and beautifully animated.

    If it ends up being full of uncool racial stereotypes, I won’t see this movie.

  29. Rosa wrote:

    Some of the conceptual art for Tiana made her look more unique, now she’s just as generic as the white princesses.
    Esmeralda in the Hunchback was not only “exotic” looking but very sexualized! Far more than any other princess, and too much for a movie with talking stone gargoyles. The dancing fire song. Ugh.
    Jasmine is the best so far because she is the most unique looking, and had a kick ass tiger for her sidekick!

  30. Lxy wrote:

    Another charge levied at black critics of The Princess and the Frog is that they are trifling to “waste time” getting agitated over cartoons. But the fact is all media, especially those directed at children in their formative years, shape how people see and interact with the world. That’s why fairy tales have morals and Sesame Street has educational value. Children are especially malleable by media because they haven’t or have just begun developing critical thinking skills and are just getting their first and foundational impressions of the world.

    Disney recognizes the power of media. The company has often used its films to political ends. For example, Donald Duck was placed in a series of World War II films designed to make children passionate supporters of American troops and enemies of the Nazis and the Japanese army. Then later, Donald Duck was used in the films Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros to promote Franklin Roosevelt’s Good Neighbor policy towards Latin America. Clearly, if cartoons were “just cartoons” Disney wouldn’t make such films.

    Mainstream America always trots out the “you’re making a big deal about cartoons” argument when people critically talk about Disney.

    But Disney’s “innocent” cartoons often have a political subtext to them, as Ariel Dorfman’s famous work _How to Read Donald Duck_ documented:

    http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Donald-Duck-Imperialist/dp/0884770230

    And Disney has a proud tradition of using racist caricatures in its films, most notably it’s infamous _Song of the South_.

    The 9 Most Racist Disney Characters
    http://www.cracked.com/article_15677_9-most-racist-disney-characters.html

    Song of a Never-Was South
    http://www.blackcommentator.com/139/139_south.html

  31. Winn wrote:

    @ McLiah: ” I thoroughly understand the argument that if someone doesn’t point racial issues out that they’ll go unnoticed, but it just seems so awfully defeatist in so many ways.”

    Sigh. I was going to try, but I just don’t have the strength. Perhaps someone with more patience than I will tackle this one. I will only say that your original argument might hold more water if Esmerelda was given green eyes in the source novel. In fact, in Hugo’s novel, Esmeralda’s eyes are explicitly described as “black”. She is actually kidnapped by the Romany from her French mother and renamed “Esmeralda”, surely to allow her to be absorbed more easily into the community. So you are mistaken about what inspired her name. This was a deliberate choice on the part of the animators which diverged from the character’s original description, and while it was probably made primarily for aesthetic reasons, this doesn’t negate the exclusionary implications that Shannon and others reacted to in the character.

    @Shannon,

    Excellent, insightful post. I especially appreciated your discussion of voodoo and the problems inherent in this film’s portrayal of it. Voodoo has long been a racial boogeyman in Hollywood, shorthand for “the practices of those mysterious savages” and treated as distinct from and unworthy of the status of Western religions. In fact, voodoo is treated as superstition and evidence of both malevolence and atavism, not a complex spiritual belief system. As a member of a minority religion that has long been demonized in folklore, literature, the arts, and pop culture, this becomes one of the most glaring missed opportunities of all the opportunities Disney runs past in this film as they head for the bottom line. I certainly don’t expect critical race analysis or respect for religious parity in Disney films, but I would at least hope for a little more creativity than this “weird practices of dark peoples” trope offers to a contemporary audience.

  32. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “Imagine if the prince had been changed into a frog because a Catholic priest, referred to as a magician, who is wearing a Roman collar but seems to exist in a separate universe from the actual tenets of Catholicism, sprinkled him with cursed water from a baptismal font, and the only way for the prince and Tiana to save themselves was for them to get the pope-wizard to feed them magical communion wafers.”
    That… actually sounds pretty awesome.

    Also, I could have sworn Jafar was about the same color as everyone else…

  33. McLiah wrote:

    In the original novel the Hunchback was not an animated character, there were no chirping animal buddies and no one sang. Artistic and creative license was obviously taken.

    Disney princesses, or more particularly the literary characters they’re based on, have often had their names tied to physical traits, ranging from Snow White’s white skin to Tinkerbell’s tinkling lights. As a modern artist or animator or creator, if I were told to create an animated “princess” who was named Esmeralda, I think one of the most obvious thoughts might be, hey, how about a character who has green eyes like an emerald? That doesn’t sound too particularly far-fetched to me.

    What DOES sound far-fetched is anyone at Disney having a future meeting about the exact shade of eye color of ‘white’ characters lest they offend or not offend audiences. That’s an extra step that seems to only apply to animated characters of color, and one that I argue is rather silly and yet seriously detrimental to those of us who want to see more characters in the media that look like us, not less.

  34. Robyn wrote:

    Awesome, awesome post.

    One thing though- I’m partially of zingari descent (Southern Italian gypsy), and um… I have black hair and my eyes are sometimes bright green and sometimes blue-ish green. Same with most of my family from that side. We could be total freaks, I don’t know.

  35. Winn wrote:

    @ McLiah: “What DOES sound far-fetched is anyone at Disney having a future meeting about the exact shade of eye color of ‘white’ characters lest they offend or not offend audiences. That’s an extra step that seems to only apply to animated characters of color…”

    If you really want to argue that something this literal and conscious is what people here are suggesting occurs (I could have sworn I used the word “implications”, and that Shannon referred very explicitly to her “feelings”, but perhaps those points are too subtle), well, you have at it. Sounds to me like you are making that same “ungrateful, discontented blacks” argument Shannon’s post criticizes so well. But uncritical analysis is far easier and more comfortable than challenging the dominant paradigms, because you might be accused of being “self-defeating”. You’re more than welcome to that credulous position, but others choose not to walk away, hat in hand, grateful for whatever crumbs might be thrown our way.

  36. RMJ wrote:

    @McLiah

    A company with a history like Disney should be extra careful with POC characters – especially if the animating staff/writers are mostly white, and especially when the voice actor (Demi Moore in this case) is white.
    It’s a deviation from the canonical character that makes her different from many members of her stated, under-represented race.

    It’s exactly like the subject of this post. Disney probably have handled Princess Tiana’s transitions and choice of romantic partner more sensitively.

    Yeah, animators and artistic interpreters make specific decisions. But I don’t think Disney’s history is such that they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

  37. Jha wrote:

    “Imagine if the prince had been changed into a frog because a Catholic priest, referred to as a magician, who is wearing a Roman collar but seems to exist in a separate universe from the actual tenets of Catholicism, sprinkled him with cursed water from a baptismal font, and the only way for the prince and Tiana to save themselves was for them to get the pope-wizard to feed them magical communion wafers.”

    I also want to get on the “this is really awesome!” bandwagon. This should be a plot device in a book somewhere.

  38. Medusa wrote:

    This is a great essay. I remember wondering for years why Disney has managed to cover Europe (Beauty and the Beast), the Middle East ( Aladdin), East Asia (Mulan) and even have TALKING LIONS before they had a feature film with a black princess. I’m sort of wondering (and someone please let me know whether this is a legitimate gripe or if this is just me being pissed that I never see someone like me in American media) that while they had white American princes, as well as a princess who actually is actually French, a Saudi Arabian princess, a Chinese princess, and a Native American princess on her own soil, the black princess has to be from America rather than picking a country from Africa (or the Caribbean)…

    That said, the film looks like it will be really far away from any kind of an anti-racist portrayal of a black princess. One step forward, two steps back , I suppose.

  39. Amanda wrote:

    Why should we balk at Tiana’s prince being “white”? I think we need more positive representations of interracial relationships on screen. For me, it seems one of the few times interracial relationships are portrayed in mainstream films is if they are pointed out or are the crux of the plot (problems arising from the relationship, disapproving family members a la “Jungle Fever” blah blah blah). So for me, it’s refreshing.

  40. Tracey wrote:

    Amazing post. Really. And if the good voodoo priestess is more light skinned than the bad voodoo priest, I might just walk out. And I am glad Jafar was brought up. Yes there are differences of appearance but when the good characters are consistently made light skinned with characteristics favored by European standards and the bad character are dark skinned with stereotypically racialized features, I seriously doubt that it is about showing diversity. I don’t think people want heroes to be stereotypically drawn, but for goodness sake how about some real diversity. Jafar’s darkness was mentioned explicitly in the movie twice and as a way to bring home the point that this is a bad guy.
    The prince not being black also ticks me off but it could have been worse. I thought it was going to be a maid falls in love with boss’s son type deal. Not to mention the whole rescue from a black person deal. Needless to say some of these comments are really annoying. Disney, and children media in general has not shown diversity and I see this is going to be no different. For people to suggest that Disney was simply showing diversity within races and ethnicities in their depictions of Jafar (the bearded one with the only other beards belonging to the comic sidekick of the Sultan and the palace guards who were total jerks), Esmeralda, and Mulan is total garbage.

  41. L wrote:

    @ Tracey: “And I am glad Jafar was brought up. Yes there are differences of appearance but when the good characters are consistently made light skinned with characteristics favored by European standards and the bad character are dark skinned with stereotypically racialized features, I seriously doubt that it is about showing diversity.”

    I see what you’re saying, but I still think it’s unfair to label the good characters as European looking. I find Aladdin and Jasmine to look stereotypically Middle Eastern, with tawny brownish skin, thick black hair, big eyes, and a prominent nose in Aladdin’s case. I think what Slush said (”the race/phenotypes of cartoons as very much in the eye of the beholder”) is very true. To me, both the good guys and bad guys look like their ethnicity. Is there anything to be said for why people are so quick to label the deliberately unattractive villain as more “ethnic”? And by the way, Jafar is not darker skinned than the protagonists.

    I realize I might sound naive, and trust me I have always been aware of pop culture’s tendency to make villains darker in some way. But don’t think it can be applied to all cases.

  42. Tracey wrote:

    @L: do you seriously not see Jafar as more dark skinned? Despite the fact he is referred to as dark at least twice in the movie, one in the opening as a “dark man?” Very well then. I just think it is a bit to conveniant the protaganists are shown with features that while they may be Middle Eastern are also those that are most pleasing in a Eurocentric sense. I mean look at the Hutu/Tutsi. Both had features that were African yet one group was favored because there features were more appealing to the Europeans. There is diversity in the black community but it is very clear some features are considered more desirable. I think the villanious characters are labeled as being steretypically portrayed because they are. From what I and most people I know see, the villians are usually darker skinned and shown with features that serve as stereotypical ethnic markers (bearded arab as bad guy steretype). But if you honestly think that Jafar was the same color as Alladin and Jasmine then great. Alladin is one of my favorite movies but looking at i and seeing not only the colorism, but the way people are depicted based on bdy image has in some ways soured it for me. If there was more diversity where people with dark skin where rutinely showed in good as well as bad light then maybe I wouldn’t have a problem and would see your argument. But when diversity exists in a race or ethnicity, but people who are beautiful by Euro standars are favored for roles or as heroes…well. Alladin and Jasmine look like a lot of Middle Easterner’s yes. But I have no doubts that there features were picked with relateability and marketability to a white audience in mind.

  43. Martina wrote:

    I’ll still see the movie and am excited, and I’m with you on some of the arugments. I think a lot of things need to be taken into consideration, but I also feel a lot of Blacks are throwing around silly arguments.
    On the prince, I myself am into interracial couples, so I don’t mind him being ethnic or white (but I prefer ethnic). But maybe we can hope that if we’re not getting a Black prince, then Disney will make a movie for a Black prince (maybe they need some convincing is all?).

    And your post is really perfect in a lot of ways. It’s this kind of thing that Disney should be presented. I actually think your opinion does need to be sent to them or something. It could make a bit of change? Especially on the argument of Tiana spending more than half of the movie as a frog. But I’m actually curious about this. After reading a bit of reviews and then seeing the trailer, I wonder how far into the movie it is? Regardless, it is irksome.

    And while I think Jafar isn’t attractive, I don’t think he looks more ethnic than Aladdin or Jasmine.

  44. Tracey wrote:

    “Is there anything to be said for why people are so quick to label the deliberately unattractive villain as more “ethnic”?” There’s a problem with that statement right there. What makes him deliberately unattractive and by who’s standards? What makes Alladin and Jasmine spposedly attractive? The only way Jafar appears deliberately unnatractive to me is if viewed through the context of what is standardized as attractive in a eurocentric context, in which case, sure, he’s deliberately unattractive.I hope I’m being clear. I think it’s great when diversity within a group is shown, but BS when it is done so in a way when people with certain skin tones and features are almost always cast a certain way.

  45. vartanoush wrote:

    @alyssa
    “roma” is not the same as “romanian”, fyi.

  46. Whitney wrote:

    One quick tidbit: I believe in the original Beauty and the Beast, her father was a wealthy merchant and she was not a bookworm nor was she an only child, so she would have been educated.

    I was a lit major and studied fairy tales in their original form (and considered going to grad school and writing about fairy tales), so Disney has always rubbed me the wrong way because they distort the stories so much, even the historical ones.

    I’m very glad that you acknowledged that they aren’t “just cartoons.” They’re not. That’s why I don’t like them because they project unreal expectations of life. And don’t get me started about the unreal expectations when it comes to romance and relationships. Ugh.

    “Some might argue that portraying interracial marriage in film is good – but why then weren’t any of the white princesses given non-white princes to save them from white villains?”

    Well, to be fair, the Beast was, well, an animal and the villain in the beginning. But he was white and so was Gaston.

    Oh, and another thing…. why is it that the women ALWAYS have to be saved?

    “Aladdin is tan with European features while Jafar is brown with Arabic features.”

    And don’t forget that he’s voiced by a white actor from the mid-west.

    I really enjoyed reading your essay and I learned a lot. I myself am a huge critic of Disney not only because of their portrayals of unrealistic expectations in relationships and their portrayals of women always needing to be saved (big bad men always are after them, or jealous women), but also because of their stereotypical portrayals of people of color. I’m on the fence about showing these movies to my children. I want to because they were such a large part of my childhood, but I just can’t ignore the harmful stereotypes and messages that they give.

  47. Lindz wrote:

    I (whatever number we’re on)-th the awesomeness of the part about the Catholic priest.

    However, I don’t think the debate on the prince’s race is a pressing matter. I’m mixed race and like the idea that maybe Disney is trying to show diversity, though I know that they will take two steps back from this soon enough.

    The thing that has struck me about this movie is the setting choice. Disney princesses live once upon a time in a land far, far away.

    The ‘latest’ princess I can think of is Pocahontas in the 1600s. My grandparents were alive in the ’20s, so that’s not very far in the past.

    What I was expecting Disney to do when I heard they were going to do a black princess was set the movie in ancient Africa, give the characters some names based on a couple different African languages, and then just develop a plot not too different than every other Disney film. Unfortunately, they missed the opportunity and did that already using animals instead of humans (Lion King).

    Also, why are imaginary kingdoms full of white people, while Disney uses real places (New Orleans, China, colonial Virginia) to place princesses of color?

  48. Aris wrote:

    I too noticed how brown-skinned characters are rarely ever given black eyes. Even in the Barbie world–a black barbie can have blue, green, light brown or even yellow eyes, but never black, our most common eye color. What is up with that?

  49. Westerly wrote:

    “Even in the Barbie world–a black barbie can have blue, green, light brown or even yellow eyes, but never black, our most common eye color. What is up with that?”

    Because commonplace=”common’, and thus uninteresting apparently.

  50. BSK wrote:

    Do you think that, if the male character (and other prominent cast members) were black or POC, this would be dismissed as a “black movie”? Would parents across the country rush their children to see a movie with an all- or mostly-black cast, even if it’s animated?

    I hate to say it, but I’d have to think that this would be true. Right or wrong, it’s likely that it would be considered part of the “black” genre (whatever that means) and end up on Starz Black (still not sure how they choose what goes on there). I’m guessing Disney’s motivations were as much about marketing as they were about their own explicit or implicit biases. They kowtowed to the unfortunate reality of how most whites would respond to an all-black cast. Sigh.

  51. Vera wrote:

    Aris-
    I always wonder too, why animals are given blue eyes in cartoons. I do not recall animals having blue eyes in nature. Are the cartoonish trying to imply that the animals are *white*? Even E.T. had blue eyes. LOL

  52. Kayla wrote:

    To be fair though, she is hardly the first character to not be up and going through a large chunk of her movie. Snow White and Sleeping Beauty both spent most of their movie asleep, and in Brother Bear/Emperor’s New Groove – the characters also spent a good deal of the time in animal forms.

    Not to mention that yes, it is an actual part of the Princess and the Frog story. Obviously Disney does not stick with every detail of the original story, but from a strictly storytelling point – which a lot of you do not really seem to understand – you don’t cut out what is great plot fodder.

    Personally, I suppose because I’m studying animation – I assumed the prince looks the way he is because he’s from a made up nation. They didn’t want him to look like anything, but a mix of all our different cultures into a generic looking guy.

    It’s so disappointing to me as a black animator to see how people are reacting to this. Obviously there’s some serious marketing decisions that were made, but I don’t think every move here is calculated. Half of you don’t even seem to understand the process of making animated films.

  53. Slush wrote:

    ““Is there anything to be said for why people are so quick to label the deliberately unattractive villain as more “ethnic”?” There’s a problem with that statement right there. What makes him deliberately unattractive and by who’s standards? ”

    This is entirely circuitous. Either the character is ugly because he/she has features we associate with non-European beauty standards. Or, we ourselves have European beauty standards so we decide that character is ugly. And around and around we go.

  54. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Good essay, although I think the bit about the emerald eyes is a stretch. My favorite point is the one about the Brazilian (olive) prince. He’s dark enough not to offend those who dislike interracial couples. But light enough not to offend those who dislike black couples. In other words, Disney is trying not to offend anyone by not making a choice.

    Alas, Hollywood portrays all Native and indigenous religions as mystical mumbo-jumbo, with priests akin to wizards. Voodoo is no exception.

    The following image shows Jafar noticeably darker than Aladdin:

    http://contexts.org/socimages/files/2009/01/aladdin_jafar.jpg

    But it could be an exception or a trick, so I wouldn’t go by it alone.

    Re “superficially pro-multicultural films such as Pocahontas whose moral seemed to be that the indigenous warriors who fight in defense of sovereignty are just as wrong as imperialists fighting wars of conquest”: The “Savages” song did equate the two sides pretty thoroughly. But the point of it was that each side could misunderstand and misrepresent the other equally. If you put that song in context, you’d have to say the Europeans come off worse than the Indians.

    Re “The ‘latest’ princess I can think of is Pocahontas in the 1600s”: Since you’re talking about Belle and Esmeralda, you’re not limiting this discussion to princesses. Which is fine. We should broaden the discussion to include all of Disney’s cartoon women.

    But there have been more contemporary ones than Pocahontas. What about Kida in “Atlantis: The Lost Empire,” Jane in “Tarzan,” and Nani in “Lilo & Stitch”?

  55. WhatANightmare wrote:

    @ Whitney – I know this is late, but I think that you yourself are proof that watching Disney films doesn’t mean you automatically have to “fall prey” to whatever messages are in the film. I say let your kids watch and enjoy – if it bothers you that much, you can always give them a lesson after they watch the movie or something.

  56. ab wrote:

    Jafar was drawn in the typical “villian type”: the eyes are hooded and the eyebrows are arched. There are photo montages of the Disney villians that show this replicated with their other characters, like Scar and Kaa.

    But one critique of Jafar because of his nose, which was deeply hooked (not a problem)but exaggerated to the point where it mimiced anti-Semetic/anti-Arab cartooning. But Aladdin was given a smaller/more proportionate nose, and Jasmine had the typical Disney-Princess tiny nose, and the whole thing just came off wrong. Art isn’t made in isolation of the culture that originates it, and although the story of Aladdin is very old, the Disney movie Aladdin was made around the time of the Gulf War. Movies around that time show a strong Anti-Arab sentiment (all the airplane hijacker movies of the 80’s-90’s.)

    And also because Disney had made Arab=barbaric statements in the opening song (the one the Genie sings) where they talked about the country was a “Where they cut off your ear if they don’t like your face. It’s barbaric, but hey it’s home.” This IRL backdrop also helped make the differences in how the cartoon characters were perceived for this show.

    Disney uses a lot of recipes for its characters, which isn’t unexpected. But it’s a problem when the formula is similar to stereotyping and then is used on the same culture that’s being stereotyped. The nose thing is common for the villains (look at Captain Hook, or Scar compared to Mufasa). But when that was applied to a movie set in the middle East, it tripped on it’s own feet, because of the similarity to the negative imagery that was already being used to characterize the real people there.

    When the movie was released, the Arab-American community themselves raised these issues, most notably people like Casey Kasem. So it’s not like this is a new critique. The song was eventually changed for the DVD release, but redrawing a character just wouldn’t happen at that stage.

    And it’s a fair statement that an ethnic character probably won’t be redone. According to Wikipedia (I know, not the best reference) but according to them, Aladdin is one of the highest grossing of the animated films, so it outpaces all the other princess/prince movies. So there’s definitely an interest. But there has not been another Middle-Eastern movie (except for sequels on the Aladdin franchise.)

  57. Charlotte wrote:

    For the record, when we covered Voudon (or rather, “voodoo and other native African religions”) in my history classes in school, it was defined in the textbook as a collection of superstitions and rites with no base faith, unlike Western religions. Go public schools!

    What’s weird about Tiana in frog form is that she’s identical to Naveen in frog form, except with eyelashes. Despite the variation in tone within various species of frogs, they’re nearly identical — on a second watching, she’s actually a little lighter.

  58. Daniel Jimenez wrote:

    Excellent article. The only thing that I want to point out is that, as far as I know, the prince is not supossed to be white, but Indian. His name is Naveen, which is an Indian name.

  59. Nina wrote:

    I’ve written much about this. My main gripes when the movie was first announced were:
    1. Maddy? Whether it sounded like “mammy” or not, its a slave name. Doesn’t have the appeal of the more refined, elegant names of most princesses.

    2. A FROG? Are you KIDDING ME? A FROG? Portray a girl of African heritage as a FROG? An ugly bug eyed squat big mouthed FROG? So all the lil black girls who wear the shirts have MADDY the FROG?? I’d NEVER let a child of mine wear a shirt with a little black frog girl. It was and is IMO mockery. I’d be ashamed to see a movie and have my classmates see a movie where FINALLY someone who looks like me is the Star and she is a FROG!!! Like black girls don’t have enough teasing as it is.

    That to me is offensive and I just can’t make myself go see it. Black princess= frog.

  60. Nina wrote:

    Vera- I mentioned the blue eyes in my critique of Happy Feet. The special blue eyed wonder penguin saves the world. Ugh

  61. Nina wrote:

    @medusa
    “I’m sort of wondering (and someone please let me know whether this is a legitimate gripe or if this is just me being pissed that I never see someone like me in American media) that while they had white American princes, as well as a princess who actually is actually French, a Saudi Arabian princess, a Chinese princess, and a Native American princess on her own soil, the black princess has to be from America rather than picking a country from Africa (or the Caribbean)…”

    The Caribbean is part of the Americas.

    I get your point, but is the Caribbean more authentic than New Orleans? I suppose it boils down to what you mean when you say “black”. Do you want an African princess or a princess of African ancestry?

    Many “black” people consider the US their “native soil”.

  62. L wrote:

    @Tracey: “do you seriously not see Jafar as more dark skinned?”

    http://media.photobucket.com/image/aladdin%20jafar/amartin99/dmAladdin.jpg

    http://www.tkn.tu-berlin.de/research/trace/plakate/Aladdin.jpg

    http://icanhaspixiedust.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/aladdinjafar.jpg

    “Despite the fact he is referred to as dark at least twice in the movie, one in the opening as a “dark man?”

    I haven’t seen the movie in ages, so I don’t remember references to him being “dark.” If that’s the case, you have a point.

    “here’s a problem with that statement right there. What makes him deliberately unattractive and by who’s standards? What makes Alladin and Jasmine spposedly attractive?”

    This is completely circuitous and it’s a matter of perception. I don’t see it as an issue of European looking good guys vs. ethnic looking bad guys. They both look ethnic to me. I do not see Aladdin and Jasmine as fitting European standards. Nor do I think Jafar fits solely European standards of unattractiveness — I’m pretty sure no culture would see his “Disney villain” face as attractive. Which is a whole other issue in itself.

  63. L wrote:

    Sorry to prolong this tangential/neverending argument, but I just wanted to clarify that I originally was just concerned with people seeing non-white Disney protagonists as “not ethnic enough”. I’ve heard statements like this about Mulan, Tiana, Aladdin and Jasmine. The question I was asking was whether or not viewers are more likely to subconsciously pick up on the perceived “white qualities” of these characters because of their goodness/”cuteness.” And vice versa for the villain. I do think Jafar’s facial features were drawn in a caricature-like way, much like Islamophobic cartoons. But that doesn’t make his face more accurate — it’s obviously an exaggeration. And just because protagonists are not drawn as caricatures of their race does not mean they don’t look like their race.

  64. Alicia wrote:

    The thing I’m concerned about in the film is the Voodoo as well. I believe there’s even a section in the trailer where there is “african” drumming while the guy is conjuring a spell.

    You didn’t mention it, but it seems his character design is -highly- influenced by Baron Samedi. Way to water down a religious icon in the voodoo religion for a kid’s movie, Disney.

  65. ab wrote:

    @L — that’s a really goo d point. I think the problem is that Disney uses formulaic features/coloring/mannerisms to depict character traits. So there’s a narrow range built-in to the images from the start.

    A small digression for an example is the “girl eye.” All the non-evil females, even animals or typically inanimate objects like teacups have the “girl” eye: doe-eyed, large pupil/iris ratio, wide spaced. And if they’re the heroine, they have more childlike features: small noses and chins. This can subtly reinforce the idea that the heroine needs to be protected (because the face is childlike, and people are socially trained to identify children as people that warrant protection.) So we further the idea that a form of beautiful femininity is one that looks childlike (not young-woman like, but almost babyish in the relative proportions of eyes/nose/chin.) The only real grown up features are the mouth, which is typically drawn fuller than the male’s mouth, and the shape of the face.

    It’s kind of a self-referential set up: the artist uses an image to identify a character, and then assigns personality traits or feelings to that image. The reader sees the image and gets the definition. But when the artist recycles the same features/attributes across characters, then there’s a reinforcement that someone who looks a particular way is the same way.

    Disney uses a ton of the same stuff over and over, even to the pacing of their fight and dance scenes. There’s a YouTube mashup somewhere that uses like 5 or 6 different movies, and the only thing different is the costuming. The characters, their relative features, their postures, voice styles, everything is recycled.

    That’s why it rubs against the (valid) critique that people of a group don’t have to look a certain way. This is absolutely true, but because this art form uses a technique where certain character types do look a particular way (no matter what species, ethnicity, or time they come from), there are often archetype/stereotype exaggerations, and not as much representation of the fact that normal people have a range of looks (and that some actually do have features similar to the ones depicted onscreen.)

  66. metal mickey wrote:

    I think that some of the comments about how Aladdin and Jasmine etc are not ‘ethnic-looking’ enough are offensive as well. To take those examples they both look very M-E to me, Aladdin has a very semitic nose, Jasmine has large dark eyes. Heck, both could pass as Indian.

    Aside from that, I also don’t like it when commentors say that the non-white princesses (Jasmine, Tiana) are less ‘real’ because they are pretty. It’s kind of frustrating, because I look just like Jasmine – similar skin tone, large dark eyes, small nose and chin. Heck, Jasmine looks just like any Bollywood actress. I’m completely convinced that there are black girls who look just like Tiana. Let’s face it, that extreme feminine look is the beauty ideal of now, large eyes and a small nose, and a soft full mouth. (I know some people will wank over my use of words, please don’t b/c English is not my first language. I don’t know any other way to say it.)

  67. Chris Ford wrote:

    I think the thing that I most agree with you on is the fact that the black princess spends the movie as a frog. That would be pretty sad.

    I think your comparison of other religions using “black magic” scenarios is off though. Vodoun is widely known for it’s supernatural effects, even if only myths and rumors. Specifically, the Vodoun doctors in Haiti that zombify people with poisonous powders and use them as labor slaves…zombies sound like a myth but as the Serpent and the Rainbow has pointed out, it happens. Maybe if the Disney movie happened upon exorcism it would be different BUT I think Disney would stay away from that religious topic because of the horrors associated with exorcism.

    As far as the looks are concerned with the eyes, I think that little girls of any race have made their attachments with all of the princesses no matter what their background is. If the color of the eyes is that much of a turn off for a role model, that might just be a problem with the mentality of the viewer of the film.

    Either way, I think you are right that Disney should get things right if this is the first, or even the last, time they hit a movie with a black princess.

    Good insightful post though.

  68. Valerie Smith wrote:

    It is a very good essay, but Disney are out to make money. The issue I have is that we want Disney to do our own work for us. The black community has a spending power of billions, yes, billions, what do we spend our money on, foolish things, which will not uplift us. We patronise stupid hair products, which are rubbish and ruin our hair.

    We can have decent films, but somehow what do we get, shooting, killing and the hood, look at our raps videos, again nothing, uplifting the black woman.
    How many black people went to see ‘The Great Debators’, but yet I bet the cinema would be full with people seeing ‘Big Mama’s House’ and Madea characters.

    One thing though, it is good to have a black princess and there are plenty of black princess, but we have parents who don’t treat their little girls as princess, how many of us tell our daughters they are beautiful.
    If our daughters talk properly, dress nicely, or listen to classic music, we accuse them of acting white. We refer to our hair as ‘nappy’ and we love the n word, all these are slavish terms. We may be free, but we are not mentality free.

    We have to make our own films, good films to inspire and up lift us. We have to teach our sons to love our daughters and via versa

    Look at the advertising showing relaxers for our little girls. Why are we doing this, again, what message are we sending out about our daughters hair.

    How many of us are interested about where other black people live, Africa, the Caribbean.

    Before we expect anyone to respect us, we have to clean out our of own house and change our total mindset, and we make quality films, if that was done in 1930-40s, why can’t it be done down.

  69. Whitney wrote:

    @WhatANightmare: Only recently. When I was younger, I did have those expectations of being swept off of my feet, etc. I think they’re fine if you explain to your kids that they’re just make believe, or teach your daughters more feminist ideas and principles once they reach middle school (which is a very crucial age to teach girls about relationships and what is normal, and what is not).

    I think there was even a Sex and the City episode about how women just want to be saved. Also, I know a lot of women who read romance novels, and that whole concept stems from fairy tales and more specifically, Disney movies. I used to work in a bookstore and the romance section was one of the most popular. Sure, it’s a form of escapism (and I’ve read a couple of romance books) but I don’t think it’s harmless. It’s the whole aspect of female submission at the hands of men. I’m not saying that it’s solely because of fairy tales and Disney films, but a combination of societal views about women, and Disney only contributes to it.

    Anyways, I have a feeling that this movie won’t be so hinged on Tiana needing to be saved by a man, and falling in love with him for saving her, or giving up a part of herself for him (like Ariel with her voice). I like that they’re both in the same situation, it makes them more like equals, going through the same trials together, and that they actually get to know each other, unlike with Cinderella, Snow White, Ariel, etc who just fall in love with a man they don’t really know. That aspect I really dig about this movie.

  70. Medusa wrote:

    @ Nina- I know, but I was referring to the nation whose unofficial short form is “America.” As in the US. And yeah, I realize what you’re saying but at this point the Caribbean is primarily populated by blacks and has been for a long time, the way the US has been by whites. Yeah, I guess I just don’t see why they couldn’t have made an African princess when they made an East Asian one and a Middle Eastern one and on and on…

  71. Tracey wrote:

    @L and Slush: In no way am I trying to say that certain characters don’t look ethnic enough or that they don’t represent members of their ethnicities they are suppose to portray. What is ethnic enough anyway, that’s garbage. A light skinned black woman with straightened hair is not “less black” because of her features. But were the only people who could get roles as protagonists/love interests while the role of vixens and domestics fall to those with skin that is darker than the protagonists, and this was almost always the norm, something’s up. I am only saying that when you see the same juxtaposition over and over again it is total BS, and yes, there is often a total colorism element to it. I never meant to say that Alladin and Jasmine don’t look “ethnic” or that they are too “pretty”. Again, I would argue that Jafar is not ugly. I don’t think the argument is circular at all.
    When there is so much diversity within any group, why is it that people who fit only certain molds get to be protagonists or love interests? If Disney was serious about diversity they would show heroes and villians with varying skin tones, body sizes, and bidy types. They don’t. Within any Disney movie you can oretty much be how the juxtaposition is going to play out.I don’t think the criticism of this movie, or any other churned out by Disney is over the top. Disney is in a position to help define what is considered beautiful, yet it sticks to a very rigid model. Yes, you can be a WOC and be considered beautiful, but you better be light skinned and a size 4. Maybe Disney’s next bussiness adventure should be skin whitening creme.
    The picture posted for Avatar shows the point I am trying to make. Yes, it makes sense to have people who appear of South Asian descent in Avatar role, but why would they just happen to cast that person as the anti-hero, juxtaposed to two heroes. I wouldn’t characterize Patel as ugly, but seriously, was that really just a crazy random happenstance? Maybe so. Clearly I am too jaded and can watch most shows/movies and see diversity in how villians are cast juxtaposed to heroes. Or sidekicks to heroes, or love interests to never gonna be wanted by anyone in a movie. Dream Girls is a great example of where the darker skinned woman that isn’t a size 8 gets the guy over Beyonce….wait, not right.
    One thing that does excite me about this movie is that Tiana will be more of an active heroine than Disney Princesses often are.

  72. Tracey wrote:

    Soory for the double pst and I will let this strand go after this. Just want to make it clear I do not have a problem with Jasmine, Alladin or Mulan. If they were the only people in the movies I could care less. The problem I have is there juxtaposition with Jafar and the Huns. I don’t see where anyone has said they wre not ethnic enough, if so, that’s messed up. But when you throw in the juxtaposition, I’ll admit more so in Mulan than Alladin. Something’s up. And calling Jafar ugly, based on his appearance, only plays into the hands of MSM and perpetuation of bad body image and low self-esteem.

  73. Ada wrote:

    That was a great piece, Shannon. I’m very disappointed that in this day and age where many black women are single and there are many single mothers of all colors that Disney couldn’t just give us a strong, African warrior princess. I would be SOOOO excited for that. But no, they revert back to their caricature days and associate the princess with a frog, servanthood, and voodoo. The first thing I thought of when I heard of Maddy the Frog Princess was a golliwog! Think about it, why is it that all the other princesses are ethnic but this one is racial? I know Disney isn’t the most sensitive (remember the opening of Aladdin?) but I really appreciated Mulan and hoped their future princesses would be better because of it.

  74. Wu Ming wrote:

    Really enjoying this discussion. None of you mentioned a couple of points I’d like to make.

    Disney is in the business to make money. They don’t want to offend ANYbody. I am sure they tried to make the movie as inoffensive as possible (probably had focus groups and lawyers!). You can’t please everyone and still have a villain, after all. Disney villains are every bit as likely to have British accents as to be “dark” people like Jafar. (I never noticed any difference of skin color in Aladdin, I must say. All the characters just seemed Middle Eastern.)

    Given the lead time on an animated movie, its setting must have been decided on soon after Hurricane Katrina destroyed much of New Orleans in August 2005. Maybe it’s because I’m from Louisiana, but I’m so thrilled that it’s set in New Orleans. New Orleans needs the boost and it looks beautiful in the movie. I feel sure that the decision to make the prince an ambiguous color was also deliberate for sales reasons. I thought he was French from his accent (and probably because he was a frog)– and I used to live in France.

    The early Disney movies were more distinct from each other than they are now. Let’s hope this one will break the trend of

    –British-accented villain
    –Jewish-Brooklyn-shtick-style cute sidekick animal
    –spunky heroine, who all the same needs to be saved by
    –hunky teenager with California accent

    The fact that this princess turns into a frog is the least of her problems! She also needs to overcome Disney’s long slump into fill-in-the-slot movies.

  75. Sokari wrote:

    Thanks for putting the record right on Voodoo!

    Check this interview with Voodoo Priestess Madame Yvonne Auguste http://www.blacklooks.org/podcast

  76. Wendi Muse wrote:

    a) great article
    b) the issue of the prince is…interesting. i wonder why they didn’t just make him Creole if theydidn’t want to offend the people who don’t like the idea of a white prince or for fear of alienating white audiences with a monoracial coupling? but then maybe again, it goes right back to that fear of alienation. would white audiences come out to see a disney movie in which the heroine and the hero are of african descent, no matter their skin tone?
    c) though disney will prob eff up royally like usual, i am really happy to see a black princess. sure, the princess trope recycles a lot of sexist myths about what it means to be a woman, but i love that she is a restauranteer and well that she is black. it honestly means a lot. i was thinking about some of the younger students who attend the school where i teach english, and they are all obsessed with disney. given, many of these children are privileged, white brazilians, however, they are white brazilians who have friends and family members of many different colors. how does it affect their world view if everything associated with happiness is white and/or american and/or not reflective of the diversity they see all the time. and what about the children (And there are many many here) who are of mixed racial heritage. where is a princess for them? to see someone on the screen in a role that is respected, admired, and envied goes a loooong way.

  77. Zahra wrote:

    Great post. I love your Esmeralda Eyes point–it articulates something I’ve noticed but haven’t quite been able to put together for myself on my own.

    It’s especially galling because it’s so different from the book, where Esmeralda is, I think, a blonde kidnapped non-Roma child–both because she has to be to be beautiful & the heroine, and to further an anti-Roma agenda. Disney correctly jettisoned this, along with just about everything else Hugo wrote, and decided to draw her with dark skin and hair. Why not be consistent?

    And on the topic of Disney stereotypes: Eddie Murphy’s dragon character in Mulan is the recent black caricature that most gets my back up. I’ll be interested to hear more about the sidekicks in this film.

  78. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “(the bearded one with the only other beards belonging to the comic sidekick of the Sultan and the palace guards who were total jerks)”
    The Genie also had a beard, iirc (and I think a bunch of background characters did too.).

    “I too noticed how brown-skinned characters are rarely ever given black eyes. Even in the Barbie world–a black barbie can have blue, green, light brown or even yellow eyes, but never black, our most common eye color. What is up with that?”
    For the same reason anime characters almost never have them, even though most Japanese people do?

  79. Hibbs4Prez wrote:

    Why should we balk at Tiana’s prince being “white”? I think we need more positive representations of interracial relationships on screen.——————————————————

    Maybe. But in mainstream Hollywood films its almost never a black male and a white female. When the hypocrites (in Hollywood and filling the seats in the theaters) are able to accept that type of relationship then that would be the most true form of progress on the IR front. Because it is not nor has it ever been as controversial when the guy is white and the gal is a woman of color.

    Some of you must have forgotten Disney’s Made for TV Cinderella which starred Brandy and was produced by Whitney Houston. That story too had a black female protagonist and a non-black love interest/prince. There was not one black male in the entire film. Now Disney gives us an animated feature that’s essentially the same. But this time there is a black male character and he is the villain. Okay.

    So Disney is sending black males (especially black boys) a clear message. You’re not anted; you’re not prince material. Its also sending girls everywhere a message that black males aren’t desirable, aren’t noble. But watch the black females rush out and support it because, hey, at least they are represented, right?

    What woud the reaction have been if the story was about a black prince in New Orleans and out of all the females he falls in love with its some white princess? My guess is that the hand-wrining and the outrage would have been overwhelming. There would have been that talk about how white females are put on a pedestal for all men to cherish while black women are not credited as being beautiful enough for princesses. But no one seems to bring up that white males are placed on a pedestal just as much as white women and that black guys aren’t routinely described as handsome, beautiful, desirable in the press or through the media. Black boys need a boost too (well, even us OLDER black boys need that). At the very least they need more black folks sticking up for them in situations like this when Disney bypasses them altogether. Again. But black folks, whe originally voicing their complainst, were more vocal about the original title, the princess’ profession, her features, etc.

    There’s such a double standard. I’m tired of seeing many black women foam at the mouth at the sight of a black mana nd a white woman in the same frame (whether its in a photo or in a movie), but these same women be more “tolerant” when its a white male and a black woman, When its the latter all of a sudden its more tolerable and you get comments like “well, I’m kinda disappointed the guy isn’t black but hey its sure is progressive and healty to go the IR route so I think I’ll check it out.”

    Obviously I’m not seeing this film. Disney doesn’t have a place for black males on the screen, so I don’t have any dollars for them in my wallet. And to be honest if the film was about a black prince and white princess and the only black female of note was presented as the main antagonist I wouldn’ support that either. Because while I’m OK with IR and especially wouldn’t mind seeing the BM/WW type for once shown positively on the big screen, I would not be able to get past the image Disney was trying to sell me of black women. But based upon message board chatter on this topic and based upon some conversations I have had with black folks, it doesn’t look like black females are going to follow that example and tell Disney to shove it. After all its centers around a black princess and therefore its all about them.

    For some reason the collective psyche of black women appears to be so in need to have Hollywood acknowledge their little girl fantasies that I’m almost tempted to think that if the Prince was a slave owner they would overlook it.

    By the time this film comes around in December it will be promoted as THE event in the African American community: kinda like the combined power of Dream Girls + Tyler Perry flicks + Obsessed. Oprah (who of course really cares little of the well being of black boys in comparison to black girls ) will give the movie the stamp of approval and maybe the Obama girls will get a heavily covered early screening of it. Women will be sobbing coming out of the theaters as they tell members of the media how much it all means for them. And I will sit back and be amazed by it all. But of course not surprised.

  80. RCHOUDH wrote:

    This is such a great post! I’ve been seeing some buzz on the WWW lately after the prince’s appearance was revealed. I personally feel they deliberately left the princes race ambiguous (meaning I don’t think he’s a white but a generic brown one with an East Indian name and Brazilian accent). They’re hoping to minimize the backlash that way, the effectiveness of which won’t be seen until this movie’s release.

    I too find it very disappointing that they have Tiana turn into a frog. As far as I can recall, in the original Frog Prince the princess never turns into a frog. She simply acts obnoxiously towards the poor frog and tries to avoid him at all costs until the very end when, despite her bad behavior, she gets rewarded with a handsome prince. I can understand Disney not wanting to turn Tiana into an unlikeable character (as that would bring forth the Angry Black Women stereotype)! However I don’t see why they didn’t do what they did in Beauty and the Beast and have the kind hearted human girl fall in love with an animal like creature who finally turns human. They’ve done similar storylines before if you watch Bambi and The Lion King back to back. Both stories not only involve animal characters, but also deal with royalty (Prince of the Forest, King of the Plains), the main character’s change from childhood to malehood, death of loved ones, main characters acting as saviors, and finally the birth of the main character’s children in the end.

    I also totally agree with the Esmeralda Eyes dilemma. I think they wanted Esmeralda to not be too “ethnic” since she was living in medieval France at the time. And Disney does have a habit of “prettying” up female characters with light eyes (with the exception of completely non white characters like Jasmine, Pocahontas, Mulan, and now Tiana). Both the animal love interests in Lion King and Bambi even had light eyes (as a way to differentiate and prettify them from the rest of their species)!

  81. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “But in mainstream Hollywood films its almost never a black male and a white female.”
    Wait, I thought that was the most common one (as it appears to be in real life)…

  82. Chloe wrote:

    This is a very interesting essay! I probably won’t be seeing this movie, since I feel that Disney kind of lost it after The Lion King, but I know a lot of people, especially young children, still love Disney movies. I remember seeing a live action version of Cinderella on video once when I was maybe four or five years old, where Cinderella was black (and presumably the other characters were too), and I didn’t think there was anything unusual or strange about it. The more blacks are portrayed in these stories, the more I think white people (and other blacks) will see it as “normal”.

  83. Hibbs4Prez wrote:

    Wait, I thought that was the most common one (as it appears to be in real life)…
    ——————————————————-

    Please name me all the mainstream Hollywood films in the past 25 years in which there is a BM/WW relationship on screen in. I would really like to know of all these films that I have must have never noticed or paid attention to all this time. If you can somehow come up with even ten then get back to me. Then I will point out that Thandie Newton has probably done ten movies alone in which her character is paired with a white male. I wouldn’t even have to move on to all the other black actresses to match that ten.

    Also unless you’re living in England I would find it hard to believe that anyone would think that in real life BM/WW couples are the most common IR coupling. In America statistics indicate its WM/AW or white males and non-white Hispanic women. The black community dates and marries outside their race less than any other group in the USA. That includes black men. Less than 10% of all black men in America go outside the race and yet based on some folks’ paranoid ravings you would think all the black guys were marrying “some white girl”

  84. NINA wrote:

    @ada. Thank you. No golliwogs for me,ok?

    The problem isn’t just Disney. It is that people of color are looking to Disney to provide role models and positive representations of themselves.
    We need our own stuff.

  85. c.n.edaw wrote:

    Hibbs4 Prez- you are most likely statistically correct as most films will pair a black leading male character with a non-black but NOT necessarily white woman. I think of movies like “Hitch” or “Training Day”, etc. The excuse given is that a white woman/black man is still too controversial here and overseas and that a leading man like Denzel or Will Smith are popular overseas but other than Halle Berry there are NO black women actresses who have that type of draw.

    Not to mention, the fear that a black leading man and black leading woman makes a movie an “urban” movie that won’t have mass appeal here or overseas. Hence the reason I am sure Disney made this move with this film’s romantic leads.

    I think that misconception you speak of about black men and white women…started with the popularity of the “Save the Last Dance” type of movies in the late 90’s. “O” is another movie released around that time I think or “Honey”(even though technically Jessica Alba is not all white)..when alot of the hot up and coming black male actors in these MTV produced type movies were always paired with white female leads romantically.

    For people of a certain generation (I’m 30) most of the reality shows of that period that were popular feature hot young black men and white women ( or women who are definitely non-black and racially ambiguous) as their girlfriends which I think led to this perception.

    Likewise, if you grew up in the suburbs as I did, a lot of young black women will tell you they could not buy a date from a black man during that time.
    If you were a young attractive black guy, especially an athlete or from a privileged background, you did not date black girls. None–yes that is true NONE– of the black guys in my high school dated black girls. Granted there were only a handful of blacks period, but still. We all went to the prom (black girls) in a group alone while the guys had white girls on their arms.

    Where I live now as a fully grown adult woman I see a similar trend. If you are a gainfully employed black man with something the average woman would find dateable you don’t date black women, generally, or at least not on the regular.

    Now, I know numerically speaking ALL of those numbers you speak of about interracial pairings, as I looked them up myself just to get a reality check when I was lamenting all the Friday nights I spent alone– but it does APPEAR in a lot of places, especially those outside major metropolitan areas without a lot of diversity in general—the black male white female pairing interracially is most common– even if its not true.

    And I suspect with all the numbers you can also find about black women and higher education/socio economic status this number is further skewed …as I would bet we tend to be in places due to our careers/educational level that tend to be less “black” –for lack of a better term— in general so what we see on a daily basis is not indicative of the big picture you mention.

    I’d add that most people neglect to think about the black male in this respect as many people (men and women) tend to think a lot of stereotypes of black men have in some cases been turned into positives….machismo..sexual prowess..athleticism…being hip/cool…etc.

    Not saying it’s right, but I think those images are not something a lot of black men overwhelmingly agree work against them in pop culture in the same way a lot of people feel the beauty standard works against black women.

  86. c.n.edaw wrote:

    paragraph should read:

    And I suspect with all the numbers you can also find about black women and higher education/socio economic status this APPEARANCE is further skewed …as I would bet we tend to be in places due to our careers/educational level that tend to be less “black” –for lack of a better term— in general so what we see on a daily basis is not indicative of the big picture you mention.

  87. Michelle wrote:

    Hibbs4Prez,

    I see you Thandie Newton and I raise you Willard Smith.

    Now, I really don’t want to get off topic, but I think that your point about Black boys being affected (perhaps not equally) affected by this Disney movie would be better served by actually being more factual in your post.

    Perhaps Black women are not as up in arms about the non-Black prince is because movies such as Hancock, Hitch, Definitely Maybe, One Night Stand, US Marshals, Out of Time and The Bone Collector, and television shows like Grey’s Anatomy and Daybreak all seem to prove that Hollywood does not, in fact, have a problem with IR, especially if it is a Black man with a non-Black woman.

    I actually think that the whole “we need more representations of IR” argument doesn’t hold water when we are talking about the representations that Black children see and how those representations impact their psyche. I would think that the most important thing would be to show positive, loving and romantic Black couples, no?

  88. Michelle wrote:

    Wait, I just realized that I only named seven movies.

    Here are a few more:

    Pulp Fiction
    O
    Save the Last Dance
    He Got Game

    I believe that is a total of eleven.

  89. Fiqah wrote:

    @Talulah: Brilliant explanation; looooooads of salient points. ::: applauds :::
    @Michelle: Co-mofo-sign. ::: fist pump:::

  90. Fiqah wrote:

    @Fiqah:
    Talulah’s on the other thread. Pay attention, honey – in spite of the misleading phrasing, it won’t actually cost you a dime.

  91. c.n.edaw wrote:

    @ Michelle I applaud you as well in bringing home the point with more movies I could not think of AND all the scripted t.v. shows I couldn’t recall since I am so annoyed by this practice I tend to not watch those shows/movies for THAT reason alone.

  92. Arabi wrote:

    Perhaps Black women are not as up in arms about the non-Black prince is because movies such as Hancock, Hitch, Definitely Maybe, One Night Stand, US Marshals, Out of Time and The Bone Collector, and television shows like Grey’s Anatomy and Daybreak all seem to prove that Hollywood does not, in fact, have a problem with IR, especially if it is a Black man with a non-Black woman.

    I don’t meant to derail this thread any further, but I do believe that the posters point was about black men with white women. “Save the last dance” is the only positive portrayal out of that bunch y’all mentioned.
    All others were basically with black men with Afro-Latinas and a few Asians.
    Thandie vs. Willard. No comparison. He got matched with a Latina who can be pretty much be counted as a lightskinned black woman in the movie Hitch but thats about it. I think she did Crash and Pursuit of Happyness paired with a black man. She’s also married to a white man, Willie is with Jada of course.
    And it’s also pretty conclusive that middle/upper class black men still marry within the race far more than without.
    Don’t let the your daily perception throw you off because like everyone’s it’s strongly biased and skewed.

  93. Doug S. wrote:

    From what I’ve read, it is more common for black males to be involved in an interracial marriage than black females, and it is more likely for Asian females to be involved in an interracial marriage than Asian males.

  94. N wrote:

    FWIW, in Honey the character played by Jessica Alba was a very light African American not white or latina.

  95. GENQ10 wrote:

    I can see the reasoning that went behind deciding to make the prince white and the antagonist black:
    Disney is certainly not about to have an all-black cast. There has to be SOME white person in there SOMEWHERE. If they make the bad guy white, they bring out all the ugliness of the country’s history of racism and, seeing as the film is already set in antebellum Louisiana, they’re already treading on thin ice. So: make the prince white, but “ambiguous” (give him a Latin-American sounding accent; the fact that he’s European won’t even be noticed!); you’re promoting interracial marriage and avoiding a potential white vs black conflict while not alienating your white audience by having an entirely black cast.

    Ugh.

  96. GENQ10 wrote:

    Ps. I dont know if someone has mentioned it yet, but Aladdin was modeled after Tom Cruise. That’s why he looks the way he does.

  97. c.n. edaw wrote:

    Arabi and N– just to clarify and not further hijack

    Hey I acknowledge my perception is skewed, in fact those are the very words I used in my explanation early. But I am sure you have heard the phrase regarding perception and reality. The very relation between perception and reality is why most ideas on this blog are discussed in the first place. Do I have a bias? Perhaps, but who doesnt?

    I KNOW what the numbers say(about IR relationships) and stated thus very clearly…that’s was my point…it doesnt change perception because what you SEE often overrides what is actual, especially because you can’t possibly see everything at once.

    I can’t see the the majority of black men in the U. S. with black women as wives of girlfriends. I can only see what goes on in MY neck of the woods which does not reflect that and for me and other black women that is often mirrored in popular culture. Again, the reason to discuss the issue in the first place.

    And if you think “Save the Last Dance” was a positive portrayal of interracial relationships, then I know we will just have to agree to disagree because we don’t see this issue from the same vantage point at all.

    Frankly, I don’t care if Jessica Alba’s character was supposed to be “light African American” or if she or any other actress who is NOT black somehow “reps” for the black female in a movie. She is not African American. Period. By that logic then Jamie Foxx should play Frank Sinatra as someone suggested he wants to do on some news outlet.

    That’s all.

  98. jigzaw wrote:

    “One thing though- I’m partially of zingari descent (Southern Italian gypsy), and um… I have black hair and my eyes are sometimes bright green and sometimes blue-ish green. Same with most of my family from that side. We could be total freaks, I don’t know.”

    Key word: “partially”
    which is exactly what the author of this essay was getting at. She is Gypsy “but not really”. Just like anyone who descends from a non-european peoples. If you are at least PARTIALLY white/european, then you are that much more palatable to whites in general. (please see current U.S. president)

  99. Dusty wrote:

    The essay was vary thoughtful but I most say over all it was a little unnerving from a creative and cultural stand point. What’s bothersome is the profuse sense of entitlement that unfairly attacks any sense of creative licensee on Disney’s part. “Superficially pro-multicultural” films like Pocahontas were intended to be poetic prayers for peace as opposed to hardcore retellings of actual events. In princess and the frog’s case, The heroine’s “raggedy half-toothless firefly” sidekick just doesn’t compare to Sebastian the crab. More importantly, Stating that young black boys will miss a positive black male figure to look up to is valid, however ones skin color should not be the criteria for a relatable, positive role model. (Not my criteria at least, I always respected and look up to Barbra Streisand, a white, Jewish, liberal, feminist.) The point is this: I don’t want to be hampered by labels; I want to be liberated from them.

  100. Sublimefemme wrote:

    Thank you for this smart and illuminating piece. I love your discussion of the Esmeralda eyes syndrome and your use of Spivak on the gender politics of colonialsim is terrific.

    While we’re discussing Disney’s racism, I want to point out that this multinational corporation has a long history of labor abuses and human rights violations in China (where their factories are) and they have not become more socially responsible in recent years despite their continued growth and financial success. They are now the second largest media conglomerate in the world but the factories that make their toys have appalling and unsafe working conditions, including excessively long hours (often 16 hours a day), high injury rates, illegally low pay, nonpayment of wages, forced overtime, and forcing workers to sign blank contracts.

    I wish that those concerned with Disney’s racial politics would also consider the part that racism may play in their inhumane and often criminal treatment of Chinese workers.

  101. LeMaur wrote:

    Exellent points. The only thing i wasn’t quite sure about was how the prince was “white.” To me he looks much more like a Louisiana Creole, or just a blac + white brother with light skin and good hair (like me). Matter of fact, my girlfriend said the 2 characters look like me & her when we seen the trailer. And the fact that he’s voiced by a Brazilian (read: mulatto) reinforces that notion all the more.

  102. LeMaur wrote:

    Oh, and one more thing girl. My mom is born&raised Haitian and a practioner of Vodun… I’d go so far as to say that Louisiana “voodoo” is just as offensive to the real vodun as is the version in the movie. Louisiana voodoo is so fake and based on basically nothing, having been disfigured by the “telephone effect” (aka becoming distorted beyond recognition by countless pseudoaccurate retellings) so that it has little to do with the real religion as practiced in Africa as well as Haiti. Disney’s portrayal of Louisiana voodoo is hardly what I’d call offensive.

  103. Brothel Poet wrote:

    Can someone tell me very good sources to learn about Hatian, African and Louisianan voudon? Please?
    I am writing my own New Orleans story incorporating voudon, but I still struggle with grasping what it is-its main philosophies or tenenats. It could be my Christian background bogging me down- but I want to get some kind of core idea of what it IS. If someone can hook me up, I would greatly appreciate it.

  104. Vincent wrote:

    I’m not gonna be like everyone else here who’s eager to praise you for an excellent job done. Yes, your writing is very good and this is a seemingly very well written and carefully thought-out essay, but at the end of the day a lot of your arguments lack persuasion and validity because you are judging something you haven’t even seen yet, at least not in its entirety. I mean how can you judge a movie and make conclusions and presumptions simply by “reading” about its story and looking at the trailer? Even reading a movie script can be very different from actually viewing the movie in theaters, not to mention that you only read about the story, which is probably nothing in details. And we all know how different the actual movies often turn out to be from their trailers. I thought it’s almost a common sense that written movie synopsis or their trailers can often be very misleading and not accurately describe the movie for what it really is. It’s all about editing and that can make a huge difference. No offense but i don’t think it’s very professional for any writer to jump into any conclusion before knowing your subject fully (in this case, seeing the entire movie and not just the previews).

    And speaking of opinons, I noticed that a lot of your opinions seemed to be based on your personal bias towards Disney. Yes Disney had missteps and bad reputation for falsely portraying other ethnic groups in the past and even today they’re still not 100% color blind, but they have come a long way since then and become more and more sensitive when it comes to racial issues in their movies. Mulan for one is a really good example of such progress. Despite some stereotyping on the villains’ part (which i didn’t even notice until you mentioned it), IMO they still successfully made the characters look realistically Chinese and with distinctive look for each character. Being a Chinese myself I couldn’t be more proud of Mulan and grateful for the effort and careful thoughts they put into this film. You can see they’re doing everything they could to make it right and they succeeded with flying colors. So have some faith in Disney. And if you want to criticize the movie at least wait til you’ve seen it. All in all, if this essay of yours had been written after the movie was released maybe it would’ve been more persuasive . But it didn’t and that’s a shame because some of your points were actually thought-provoking and insightful.

  105. C. Johnson wrote:

    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

    This was a brilliant challenge that summed up all the arguments I would have made. I can now joyfully refuse to watch the movie knowing that I am not alone in decrying it.

    At least, Lilo and Mu-lan, of Disney’s non-white heroines were cool. Lilo was an actual ethnic person who was a real little girl whom I could identify with. Tiana sounds like something better not seen nor heard.

    I stopped even caring once it was announced that Disney was updating the Princess and the Frog with a Black person. There are plenty of actual African folktales which could have delivered a princess without insulting the Vodoun religions, actual Witch-Doctors, and Black people in general.

    Disney needs to re-release Song of the South so everyone can remember what Disney really felt instead of trying to pander to what it thinks is a touchy demographic.

  106. Nicole wrote:

    This essay and the discussion sparked by it has been very interesting,. I’ve been reading through everything all morning. I’m actually excited for the movie. I actually quit talking about The Princess And The Frog at the few Disney forums I go to because I don’t like the annoying “Black people suuure love to bitch and moan, why can’t they be grateful?” attitude of the stubborn posters. Would love to see some other people try to explain to them exactly why people are so hot under the collar. I mean, yeah, some of the criticism I’ve seen I don’t agree with, but I can understand a number of complaints, such as Tiana being a frog for much of the film. But I’m willing to reserve judgment until I actually see it.

    Two friends and I started discussing the film at a forum recently. I was disappointed when they too started going about people needing to stop being so PC and whining about the movie. I replied back, saying that there’s a little more to it then just “black folk whining” (paraphrased), but I have a sinking feeling that I’m going to wind up ignoring my own topic because they either won’t understand or refuse to understand where I’m coming from due to being so deeply mired in their own biases, and I don’t have the time or patience to debate with people like that.

  107. J wrote:

    I also thought of Swan Princess for a movie in which the lead spends a lot of time as an animal, then remembered that it’s not Disney.

    After that, I thought of Anastasia as a movie in which Western religion is sensationalized (Rasputin wasn’t a priest but his demons and black magic definitely seemed based on the ‘dark side’ of a sensationalized version of Christianity). Anyway, I soon remembered that Anastasia isn’t Disney, either.

    All the same, I think Princess and the Frog looks like it should do a pretty good job with an African American princess, but I wish they would make a movie about an African princess. Maybe they still will.

    As far as relating to princesses based on looks, I’m a fair Arab-European mix who couldn’t relate to Jasmine or Belle if I were going to go by looks alone, but I feel beautiful with my Eastern features and Western colors. There are so many different and beautiful racial mixes! I hope Disney isn’t just trying to give each girl a cookie-cutter ideal for her race. Tiana is beautiful, but there a plenty of pretty black girls who don’t look anything like her, just like there are plenty of pretty white girls who don’t look anything like Belle.

  108. L wrote:

    Great read! Would love to see African-Americans with clout (Wil/Jada, Cosby, Tyler Perry, Quincy Jones, Oprah) do a fairytale of our own.
    That would solve a few of the issues. Also, why are we so suprised that ppl who never correctly express black thought, who have never even tried, have failed again? Why are we even expecting them to create for us!? We can express our ideas better than they ever could. Your essay is a great example of that fact…2nd point: I am a black female and I could care less about the color of the prince’s skin …3rd point: I am elated that we finally have some representation out of the sea of endless European flavored princesses in the Disney catalogue. I am hoping that the criticism expressed towards the film does not hinder ppl from going to see it or Disney from releasing it (its August of ‘09 and I havent seen one commercial about it) The scheduled LIMITED release is in Nov, holiday season, but only in NY and LA. Instead, what if the black dollar shows its power and applies its weight so that AFTER the release–and prayerfully, success of the film–the value of our opinion will not only be heard but applied and the NEXT black fairytale (optimism ppl…or shld I say positive spirits) will be done right and prayerfully by its own. RIP Booker T.

  109. Disney Freak... wrote:

    I CAN’T BELIEVE I actually read all this without getting bored! (I HATE reading long essays/articles/whatever on the internet…) This was REALLY good! It actually makes me really think more about the inner meanings of Disney movies without making me lose any of my love for them. (I never even thought about how Esmeralda’s eyes stood out before this and, I have to admit, I laughed when I was reading about the Chinese vs. the Huns and how inaccurate the characters in Beauty and the Beast were to French society during that time b/c it was all SO TRUE) Now I REALLY can’t wait to see the Princess and the Frog! Keep up the good work! :D

  110. curious wrote:

    It’s brilliant to see that people haven’t stopped caring about how the media portrays ethnic minorities and in particular women. However a great deal of emphasis has been placed on the fact that Tiana is a frog for most of the film, surely this is down to the plot rather then a scheme by disney’s wirters to keep a black woman off of the screen?

  111. not suprised wrote:

    this should not surprise anyone. Has Disney protrayed any ethnicity correctly? No!!! From Jasmine to Mulan to Pocahontas. Why should anyone be surprised? This isn’t the first Disney movie when the prince wasn’t black. Remember when Brandy played Cinderella and the prince was asian?