links for 2009-05-13
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"Many Native American communities are struggling with a basic question: just who is an Indian? As tribal numbers dwindle, many are reexamining how they define what it means to be a member. But lowering the blood requirement for membership has both political and economic impacts for many groups."
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"So greatly are we discounted that when men rail against the critique of women, they routinely ignore the womanist perspective. We are understood as so irrelevant that countering our position is deemed unimportant. All women are lumped into one group as though we experience gender oppression in the same way. To be erased from existence is worse than the vicious vitriolic attacks that patriarchy aims at feminists. Feminists are attacked because even at the most basic level patriarchy recognizes a threat to its existence whereas; women of color are already understood as conquered and colonized beings."
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"A New Jersey medical student is suing his school for discrimination for the way they treated him after he described himself as a "white, African, American." Which, as a Mozambique-born Caucasian immigrant, he technically is. But he may also be an asshat, as the school suspended him for continuing to use the expression after being told others found it offensive."
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“Back when I lived in D.C. I always wondered this,” he answered deadpan, phone still open in hand. He didn’t hang up on his call. “What is the difference between Indian and Cherokee Indian?”
I looked at him to see if he was kidding. His expression was not kidding. “Well… uh…” I hesitated. “Cherokee Indians are indigenous to here, to America. And Indians … are from India.” I looked at him and he still looked confused. “You know India? As in the country around the world? On Asia, the continent?”
“Then why are they both called ‘Indian’?”
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"Ms. Erbe’s sentiments in particular remind me of Ms. de Beauvoir, whose Marxist feminist writings I didn’t care for even when I was a socialist feminist. Ms. de Beauvoir always seemed to want to force women to go her way, when feminism is about freedom of choice and women creating our own choices. Individual liberty includes liberty in one’s life, and not having to deal with monopolistic thinking of how one should craft one’s life."
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"Maggie and John Anderson of Chicago vowed four months ago that for one year, they would try to patronize only black-owned businesses. The "Empowerment Experiment" is the reason John had to suffer for hours with a stomach ache and Maggie no longer gets that brand-name lather when she washes her hair. A grocery trip is a 14-mile odyssey."
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"In contrast with research showing that white executives are hindered by babyface characteristics, a disarming appearance can help black CEOs by counteracting the stigma that black men are threatening, according to the study from Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management."
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:
Regarding the “White African American” comment, I’ve always felt that “African American” is such a misleading term for Black Americans whose ancestors have been here for as long as White folks, who have NO connection, NO family, nothing, back in Africa.
When I was younger, I was under the impression that “African American” meant an American immigrant who was born in Africa. Imagine my surprise when I found out I was wrong.
That white guy IS technically an African. The word “African” is NOT a race, but a lot of people think it is.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 11:30 am ¶
Myles wrote:
Re: White, African-American
He’s White, born in an African country, and now lives in the US.
So, what do we call a Black person who was born in Japan and moved to England?
I know I should take the time to look at the underlying reasons why many people feel threatened by him saying he’s a White, African-American, including:
“ZOMG! He’s giving up his White privilege and enforcing his White privilege, AT THE SAME TIME!”
But I’m a tired, cranky multiracial person who is too tired from having to argue with people about how I identify myself to give credit to the inner workings of. . . people who have differing opinions. That and I have a maymester to get to.
But I am looking forward to how the conversation on here might go.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 12:09 pm ¶
embarcadero113 wrote:
Today’s Goal: Do not become enraged by strangers on the internet.
The white-dude-from-Mozambique article angered me, and the ignorant comments stoked that anger into a rage. It’s from the same place as the discussion regarding hip-hop– why the move to commodify everything unique to Black culture, including how we even label ourselves? And why is Black culture the only one that cannot be “owned” or acknowledged as the originator of said cultural phenomenon?
Say what you will about the label of “hyphenated Americans,” but I’m highly suspicious of anyone who is always asking me to give up that identity. I’ll call myself just a plain “American” when this country treats me as an equal.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 1:07 pm ¶
horsdequestion wrote:
Are colonialists really Africans (or Asians or Indians)? I don’t think you can claim a cultural identity that you tried your hardest to eradicate and Europeanize.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 3:46 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:
*fist jab* horsdequestion. I’m going to need those same people to mind their own business regarding cultural identity that is not their own.
As for the “African” – it just encapsulates the mixture of West African ancestry that predominates in American Black (slave-descended) blood. Not that fucking difficult.
This hyphenation issue is always directed at us, as if we invented the damn thing.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 4:05 pm ¶
embarcadero113 wrote:
@horsdequestion: THANK YOU.
One of the comments in that blog started talking about how Afrikaaners have a larger claim to the continent of Africa than the average Black American.
Wow.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 4:10 pm ¶
Aishtamid wrote:
@horsdequestion –
I think the fact that the guy grew up in Mozambique should be recognized. That does make him an African, not an Englishman or whatever. Like DIMA! said, African is not a race. I think it’s a bit unfair to deny his reality of having grown up in Africa.
The guy is a bit of an asshat for intentionally pissing people off though. There’s an easy solution here: he’s a Mozambique-American (I don’t know the right word for this, someone please correct me). That acknowledges his reality of growing up in Africa without offending anyone.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 6:49 pm ¶
Ruchama wrote:
Yeah, if he were calling himself a Mozambique-American, then I’d find that less problematic. The words “African American,” whether with a comma or a hyphen between them, already mean something.
I know it’s a somewhat different situation, but one of my sister’s friends was born in Colombia. Her grandparents were German Jews who, in fleeing the Nazis, basically took the first boat they could get on, and ended up on Colombia. So this girl was born in Colombia, as were her parents; she grew up speaking Spanish until her family moved to the US when she was about 10; and she always thought of herself as Colombian. She also has really pale skin, practically white blond hair, and blue eyes. When she was applying to colleges, she checked off “Hispanic” on some of the forms, which led to a whole lot of confused looks when she went to visit the campuses and the Hispanic outreach people came to meet her.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 6:56 pm ¶
Aishtamid wrote:
Having re-read my last comment, I’d like to clarify something.
It’s pretty clear to me that the term African-American was created to mean blacks. It’s true that the term is not 100% accurate if you are looking at the semantics. But semantics matters less than the commonly accepted definition of the term. This guy’s semantic nitpicking is in fact a way of denying African-American identity.
A good analogy might be the term anti-Semitism. There are Arabs who have said awful things about Jews and say “how can I be anti-Semitic when I am a Semite?” They are entirely missing the fact that the term has a meaning and by nitpicking at semantics they are denying their own prejudice over a minute detail. The same thing is happening here with the guy in question.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 7:02 pm ¶
Aishtamid wrote:
@Ruchama –
That reminds me of a family friend whose family fled the Nazis and settled in Shanghai. This woman grew up in China and spoke Chinese as well as German, but when she came to the United States she never identified as “Chinese” or “Asian-American.” In the United States, these terms have a specific meaning denoting race and she didn’t fit the qualification, so she didn’t use them.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 7:41 pm ¶
Mags wrote:
The guy from Mozambique really hit home for me on several levels.
1) I don’t have a problem with the term African-American. I do have a problem with it being used at the “same” level as a ethnic denominator such as “Polish-American”. This goes back to the idea that I find it makes it see that Africa is a country not a continent.
2) I strongly identify with the idea of being able to claim to be African whether you are from Morocco, Congo or South Africa. The division between African countries in my view still impedes the continent developing an appropriate infrastructure & economic trade.
3) A part of the discussion that seems to be missing for me how immigration to some countries especially to those in the southern hemisphere is extremely rarely (e.g. it is quasi mimposible to immigrate to several countries due to basis of nationality being blood rather than land).
I hope my ideas came out clearly, I’m writing this in between meetings.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 9:25 pm ¶
Orchid wrote:
I think the guy’s experience in Africa should be noted, but calling himself “African American”is not the way to do it. It is obvious he did it simply to piss people off because I don’t know a single African who calls himself “African American”. He is as you said Mozambique-American. Just like I would be Ghanaian American if I ever chose to be a citizen. He did it just to piss people off and I don’t appreciate that.
Posted 13 May 2009 at 9:33 pm ¶
elle the elephant wrote:
On the “buy black” article, many of the comments made were reactionary, with some saying that the andersons are “reverse racist”. Which doesn’t make sense, the Andersons are just doing what other ethnic groups, such as the Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Koreans,the Cubans in Miami etc. have been doing for since they first got to America and realize America is racist and won’t accept them:building up their human capital through entreprenuership, and only doing business with members of their own ethnic group, as the dominant ethnic group,white Americans, won’t accept them into the job market and exploit them if given the chance. The only drawback with the civil rights movement, was that it didn’t encourage entreprenuership and being self-imployed,instead depending on the benevolence of the white majority, which while it worked for college-educated Black folks, failed blue-collar and inner-city folk.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 12:22 am ¶
Whitney wrote:
RE: White, African, American. Sure, the guy might have been dickish about it, but it was very immature to retaliate like that against him. I don’t think that was right.
In regards to what others have been saying, saying one is African-American I think is kind of the same as saying you’re Asian-American or European-American (which I say because my ancestors are from all around) so why can’t a white man who grew up in Africa, specifically Mozambique, say that he’s African-American? Do we always have to identify what specific country we or our ancestors are from? (honest question) I don’t think it’s odd for me to say I’m North American or European.
@Ruchama: My mom’s friend’s father was a German Jew who fled from Germany and ended up in Shanghai. He was a teenager, and came to America before starting a family, but he always acknowledged that part of his life in China, and an extremely positive one at that. But he didn’t consider himself to be Asian- or Chinese-American, but I think it’s just because he lived there for only a couple of years.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 12:32 am ¶
Whitney wrote:
Re: Michelle Obama being Mom-in-Chief, one thing that always pissed me off about some feminists is that they criticize smart women (and women in general) for staying at home. It’s her choice. And I bet she’s an amazing mother. She has one of the most stressful jobs on the planet, being first lady and mother to two young girls, what do people expect her to do?
Do I recall people criticizing Laura Bush for being a stay-at-home mom (I believe she was)?
I don’t know, I guess I just get very upset when people criticize women for staying at home, especially when they have a degree and a stellar education. My mother has her Master’s in Economics, and I am who I am because she was there to raise me and my siblings. There is nothing wrong with staying at home, and I think that Michelle Obama is very progressive on that front, and I applaud her for it.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 12:40 am ¶
Kat wrote:
orchid said: It is obvious he did it simply to piss people off because I don’t know a single African who calls himself “African American”. He is as you said Mozambique-American
**************
I agree. My (black) African friends refer to themselves from their SPECIFIC country of origin, i.e. Nigerian-American.
Out of nowhere, it seems weird that a “white” man would all of sudden usurp the term African American when (I think), most people in America are at least aware it refers to “black” people native to the U.S. who were the descendants of former slaves and don’t exactly know specifically “where” in Africa they stem from.
It seems to me he was probably being snarky.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 1:14 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
I’ve always preferred “black” to “African American” because it’s closer to saying what we mean. The Joe Mozambique story shows us why.
But Joe shouldn’t call himself an African American even if it’s technically correct. This is like our recent debate about Asian Indian vs. American Indian. It doesn’t matter if one is more “technically” correct than the other. The word “Indian” now has two distinct and valid meanings.
Similarly, “African American” now has one valid meaning: a black person of African descent. Sorry if this excludes white and Arab Africans, but that’s the way it is. Common usage trumps technical accuracy.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 9:54 am ¶
Terrie wrote:
@Rob: “Similarly, “African American” now has one valid meaning: a black person of African descent”
The problem with this definition is that it makes a lot of assumptions. I’ve known a black woman who considered herself Columbian-American, since that was where her family was from, and a black fellow from Britain who was very quick to point out he was not American.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 11:33 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
People usually apply “African American” only to Americans. If they applied it to someone like Nelson Mandela or your British friend, they would be wrong.
P.S. I said “African American” has problems, didn’t I? I think “black” is a better term because you don’t have to worry about the person’s nationality.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 12:28 pm ¶
Evan Carden wrote:
About the white African American story, I think a part that’s being missed is that it wasn’t like he was wandering around, announcing this to random strangers. He was asked, in class, by the professor, as part of an excercise to self-identify himself culturally, for an excercise on culture and medicine, (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7567291&page=1).
Now, after he did this, he was commanded by the professor not to define himself as a white African American, and he wrote a piece for the campus newspaper defending his position, which seems to be where everything came off the rails.
I’m not defending him, but I’m real uncomfortable with the theory that we’ll ask for a self-identification then inform people that they’re wrong and suspend them if they persist in self-identifying in a way we disagree with.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 12:38 pm ¶
Penni Brown wrote:
embarcadero113 – hi 5!
Posted 14 May 2009 at 1:01 pm ¶
9jah wrote:
Re: White, African-American:
Notwithstanding the colonial context in which this guy finds himself in Mozambique, I think he can consider himself to be from Mozambique and Africa by extension. For one, I believe this is what the laws in this and many African countries provide (much like being born here grants citizenship).
However, as many pointed there is no need for him to be a jackass as he must have been aware of the cultural connotation of the label in the U.S. If he says, he is African of euro heritage I don’t think anyone would be care too much. Heck, he and others like him can adopt a moniker that categorizes their own specific experience.
I saw him on CNN yesterday (on Lou Dobbs, small wonder). Curiously they wouldn’t say who was offended (black or white community) and I believe I even heard him say NONE of the people who have given him trouble are people of color. I think black folk s should stay out of racial nonsense like this that is calculated to incite and annoy.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 1:06 pm ¶
Penni Brown wrote:
@ whitney – “Do we always have to identify what specific country we or our ancestors are from? ”
The only reason American people that are descendents of slaves identify as African American is because there are NO RECORDS to tell us our country of origin. I think it is a luxury to be able to say, I’m Mozambique-American. Because that means your history was not stolen from you.
Commenters on Joe’s blog seemed to think that we just came up with that term all willy nilly. There is a serious underlying reason and to disrespect that is not cool.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 1:08 pm ¶
Whitney wrote:
Thanks Penni. that’s what I was thinking, is that people who do know their ancestry do use the country(ies) of origin, and those that don’t, use a more umbrella term. So in saying that, I can understand more why people would be put off by him identifying in that way.
Posted 14 May 2009 at 4:53 pm ¶
penni brown wrote:
@whitney – no problem!
Posted 14 May 2009 at 6:42 pm ¶
Medusa wrote:
@ Ruchama, that strikes me as a little weird, because there are a lot of white people in Colombia…As in, why would they have been surprised about a white girl being Colombian?
I mean, what about Chinese Jamaicans? There aren’t a whole lot of them, but there have been Chinese in Jamaica for over 100 years. Yet if a person of Asian descendant came to America and said they were Jamaican, everyone would be mad confused, but not if a black person came over and said they were Jamaican, although blacks are no more indigenous to Jamaica than Asians are…
Posted 16 May 2009 at 8:18 am ¶
Jess wrote:
Y’know, I see a lot of people on this site who trip over themselves to say “I wouldn’t deny anyone the right to self-identify how they want” and then when a descendant of colonials tries that, people jump on it.
Look, the guy was — as one commenter linked it — engaging in an exercise on medicine and culture and to that extent, was telling people something sort of important.
Is he the descendant of a colonial group? Yes, but he didn’t choose that.
Is he African? Yes, by any reasonable definition.
Should he tick “African-American” on the box? Not if it is a race question, but yes if it is an ancestry question –the two are different. Rob Schmidt is right that in that case common usage would trump strict correctness.
Which gets us into some uncomfortable territory. I am an American, and nobody here would dispute that. But almost every (US/Canada) American who commented and reads this site is a descendant of colonials or invaders of some stripe. Even the black folks. (Though they were not put in that position voluntarily). So what should we all be calling ourselves? Unless you are directly connected to a Native American tribe, none of us is “American” strictly speaking.
As far as I can tell he wasn’t being a deliberate jerk or anything. He was being honest. I’ll change my mind f someone presents some evidence to the contrary.
Yes, it might have been better if he said “Mozambican-American.” But were I in his position I might have said something similar, I am not sure if he was trying to think on his feet or not.
In any case, the question does come up: nobody here bats an eye if someone identifies as an Asian-American, even if they aren’t “fully” Chinese or Indian or whatever. I haven’t seen what this guy looks like. Maybe he “looks” as African as a lot of tan-complected Brazilians do. I dunno.
And another commenter brought up a really legit question” a black man who was born and raised in Japan and moves to wherever is what? What about an Asian guy from Uganda? (There are many).
Posted 18 May 2009 at 7:40 am ¶
Medusa wrote:
Jess-
Would the Native Americans really be called the only real Americans? It didn’t become America until the Europeans invaded it so I still don’t think that’s accurate.
My sister is a black girl, born in Japan, moved to America and is returning to Japan. Americans just refer to her as African American or Japanese, both of which are completely inaccurate, as she’s a citizen of Ghana, not Japan or America, and even if she were a citizen of Japan, that’s not really how the naming system works in Japan anyway.
Posted 21 May 2009 at 6:27 pm ¶