Questions and Answers

by Guest Contributor Neesha Meminger

A couple of weeks ago I had the Toronto launch of my novel, Shine, Coconut Moon. I prepared myself in the usual way, going over what I would read, how I would introduce myself and the book to the guests, and anticipating audience questions during the Q&A. This Q&A, however, threw me off. I should have known better than to expect the usual, “So, when did you know you wanted to be a writer?” line of questioning from my Canadian peeps.

The questions they wanted answers to were more along the lines of: So, what would you say is the difference between Canadian racism and American racism? And, Would you say South Asians in the U.S. are more assimilated than South Asians in Canada?

Maybe I brought it on myself with the intro.

Before reading an excerpt, I talked a bit about how, while living in Canada, I never thought of myself as Canadian – I was always Indian or Punjabi or Sikh and then later, South Asian. It wasn’t until I moved to the U.S. and lived through eight years of the Bush administration, that I felt the most Canadian I’d ever felt in my life. That was when I realized that things I’d always taken for granted (free universal health care being only one of many) were values that formed and shaped who I was. They were the underpinnings of what I thought was right and just. And I was clearly not in Canada anymore.

But having to answer those tough questions for fellow Canadians was one of the most difficult things I’ve had to do yet. So much of the experience sits as half-formed thoughts that I had to somehow mold into coherent responses.

Things like the fact that when I lived in Canada, I reveled in my “ethnicity,” wore my Indian-ness with unapologetic joy. But the minute I crossed the border I shrunk from everything that made me appear “too” ethnic. I was hassled at the border several times when I visited home and tried to return. My partner at the time begged me to remove my nose ring and to dress more “corporate” so that I would get across. And the time that I followed that advice, the crossing was smooth and uneventful. I understood, then, on a much deeper level, why that push for assimilation was so strong south of the border.

Things like the fact that most of the South Asians in the U.S. were recruited during the “Brain Drain” from India in the 60s and 70s while Canada threw open its doors to “unskilled labor” from parts of South Asia. And that this history is critical in looking at the differences between the experiences of South Asians in the U.S. and Canada. Whereas the “professionals” who came over to the U.S. became a “model minority” – held up as examples of what was possible if one were to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, unskilled laborers sweated in low pay factory jobs, stood for hours on assembly lines, and cleaned up after their Canadian bosses.

And yet, to write the post-9/11 thread in my novel, which takes place in New Jersey, I went back to the first years after we arrived in Canada. The fear of backlash, the hostile environment toward anyone who was perceived as Muslim, or Arab, or a terrorist, the shame of being unwanted and unwelcome in your own home – all were as true for Indian-Americans (and anyone else with brown skin) post September eleventh as they were for South Asian immigrants in Canada in the late 60s and early 70s.

It was within the first year after we arrived in Canada that the Sikh temple next door to us was set on fire with the words, “Pakis go home” seared onto the walls. And immediately after the events of September eleventh, Sikh temples were bombed and set aflame in both Canada and the US in retaliation for the attacks in New York and Washington.

In Canada, we as children fought the slur of “Paki” by distancing ourselves from it. We tried to explain to our tormentors that we could not be Pakis because Paki comes from the word Pakistan and we were from India. Therefore we could not be Pakis. And those of us who were from Pakistan came up with other stories to prove that we were not the same as the people our tormentors hated. In the U.S., immediately after the attacks, there was a major media campaign that had television commercials at regular intervals with people of all backgrounds proudly proclaiming, “I am an American.” In other words, I am not the Muslim, Arab, Brown, terrorist, “other” that you hate; I am just like you.

So while the histories of the two countries are different, the politics and psychology of fear are the same. One of the questions I was asked was along the lines of, “We always hear about American racism and how horrible it is, wouldn’t you say Canadian racism is just as bad, if not worse?”

I struggled to answer this one, because I honestly don’t know which racism is worse. I know that discrimination of any kind is about fear and shame . . . it makes you not want to be who you are and you have to fight to love your own Self. I know that the U.S. has a history of slavery and internment camps, but Canada has the Komagata Maru incident and a healthy scattering of Neo-Nazis in all provinces.

And I know that here in North America, we fight whatever our fight is – discrimination based on gender, race, sexuality, class . . . while in other places women are fighting the politics of Faith. They are fighting for the right to say no to sex with their husbands. They are fighting men who call them whores because they are not being “good Muslims” and are, instead, embracing the ideology of “Christian infidels.”

And the only thing I know for sure is that none of us is fighting for the right to be Brown or female or gay or wealthy. We are fighting for our very basic human rights. The right to be who we are, exactly as we are, and entitled to the same privileges as anyone else.

So as I considered the questions at my book launch at the Toronto Women’s Bookstore, I was grateful to be in a room with such thinking, probing minds. People who are looking for answers—hoping, knowing that the way things are right now isn’t really working for anyone. And that there absolutely is a better way . . . we just have to keep asking the questions that will help us find it.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. on breaking borders « guerrilla mama medicine on 30 Apr 2009 at 9:17 am

    [...] 2009 · No Comments this lil paragraph makes me want to get a facial piercing again… Things like the fact that when I lived in Canada, I reveled in my “ethnicity,” wore my Indian-ness with unapologetic joy. But the minute I [...]

  2. Daily Buzz 4.30.2009 | The SAALT Spot on 30 Apr 2009 at 10:39 pm

    [...] 3.) Would you say South Asians in the U.S. are more assimilated than South Asians in Canada? [...]

Comments

  1. maia wrote:

    this is beautifully rendered. i had not realized the difference in history between south asian immigration to canada and the states…and how the ‘model minority’ myth is shaped by the types of workers who were recruited to the different countries. thank you.
    i am wondering as well how does this play into the larger idea of asian-americans being the ‘model minority’. is this also because of ‘brain drain’ recruitment from asian countries in general?

  2. Sobia wrote:

    I used to be one of those smug Canadians thinking that things were so much better in Canada than in the US and that we weren’t nearly as racist as our neighbours. But now I know I was sadly mistaken. That was mainly because I did not realize what in fact constituted racism.

    Our horrific history with our indigenous populations of course is the first and most tragic example. And one which is ongoing.

    Our prime minister’s refusal to ask to bring Omar Khadr home from the US. http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/624232
    This is a case fueled by racism.

    Not to mention the increase in white supremacist groups everywhere, especially in Alberta. Every year the neo-nazis in Calgary hold a demonstration – always met with anti-oppression groups and anarchist groups opposition.

    And we have our fair share of right-wing media rhetoric which is pointedly anti-immigration, especially anti Muslim immigration.

    Things in Canada are not that much better.

  3. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

    wow, interesting. I’ve always wondered why South Asians in Canada (I’ve only visited Vancouver, though) were more “ethnic” than Desi people here in the States. I never knew that Canada opened its border to labor workers.

    But there’s one thing that stood out in your story. You said that Canadians threw the slur “Paki” at you guys. That’s interesting because here in the States, most white people have NO idea that “paki” is a racist slur while “paki” is a very much racist, hateful word in the UK (which has a huge Desi population).

    It seems Canadians are maybe a little more “knowledgeable” about Desi culture, wouldn’t you say?

  4. metal mickey wrote:

    Parts of your post resonate with me. I didn’t think much about my identity as a non-white European until I started messaging with non-white Americans. The difference between the ways we deal with obstacles commonly cast the way of people such as us is as wide as the pond that seperates us.

    I do find your last few paragraphs strangely worded though.

  5. inkst wrote:

    Thanks for this post. I am very interested in reading your novel!

    My father immigrated to the US from India as part of the “brain drain” you refer to. He came here in the late 70s to specialize in surgery, because according to him, the US was the place to study surgery. He then ended up marrying my white, midwestern mother, and eventually became a citizen.

    The comment made by Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist about Canadians being more “knowledgeable” and therefore more adept with slurs rings true for me. I grew up in an almost all white, rural town, and I honestly did not experience that much outright discrimination. I don’t even remember hearing people say things about my parents’ interracial marriage. I did, however, hear my fair share of racist jokes directed at more “common” people of color. Where I grew up, the rhyme doesn’t say “catch a tiger by it’s toe…”. No one had any idea where India even was though, so it was more ignorance that I confronted as opposed to prejudice. If I said I was half-Indian, for example, people would ask me what tribe, or if they knew I was talking about Asia, they might ask why I didn’t have a dot on my forehead or if people there really ate food like they do in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Relatively harmless stuff when compared to other people of color’s experiences in grade school.

    All this is to say that in my day to day life as a child, my Indianness was never forced to the forefront. My father was a respected man in the community, a true “model minority” for even the most bigoted small town blue collar worker. I didn’t even relate to the experiences of other Indians when I went to college and met people who had grown up with two Indian parents or even in a community where the culture was preserved. Sure, I knew what idlis, dosai, and sambar were, and I had limited contact with my father’s family, but it was always this sort of tagged on thing. My siblings and I spent a lot more time with our white side of the family and our white friends.

    Which leaves me as an adult of color who more readily identifies with mainstream white culture than my south asian roots. And despite my browner skin, I usually pass for white until someone hears my name. I don’t necessarily feel that I am betraying my heritage, but it is an interesting place to be when dealing with issues of race relations at work or thinking about the institutional racism of our culture.

    Sorry for rambling, but while I often have strong reactions to the posts on this website, they are not always strong personal identity reactions. I do, after all, always check the “other” box when asked about my race.

    Thanks for the post, and I apologize for slightly hijacking it!

  6. Jadey (aka Carolyn) wrote:

    Thank you so much for sharing this.

    I am sometimes frustrated by the discussion of US-centric examples and issues when the topic of Canadian race issues comes up among my social network (primarily White Canadians in Southern Ontario), because it often derails us from real insights. My own knowledge (and that term applies loosely) about race issues was informed almost entirely by American media up until a few years ago, and it’s such an easy habit to start thinking of Canada as somehow better, rather than different. I don’t think this applies across Canada, but my experience has been of a lot of insularism and silence/confusion. I still talk to people all the time who aren’t aware of any more problems with residential schools than physical/sexual abuse occuring.

    My knowledge on contemporary experiences with and expressions of racism in Canada is still frustratingly low (with some exceptions) because I have not yet been able to tap into the kind of information networks up here that I find for discussions of racism and race in the US (always looking!), so I am very grateful for access to different perspectives.

  7. Sobia wrote:

    @DIMA:

    A few years ago there was a big fuss over George Bush’s use of the word paki when talking about Pakistanis. Considering his PR people had to scramble to do damage control I would assume that some Americans do know the slur paki.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jan/09/usa.matthewengel

    In Canada it’s a commonly known racial slur. Maybe its because of our ties with the British. *shrug*

  8. Kandeezie wrote:

    I think because we as Canadians experience racism differently, with different targets for different things, we automatically think it’s better. It’s just different. It feels different when I can’t relate to the experiences that AA people in the US have but then putting the pieces together, I see that the same racism is sometimes spread throughout communities like Aboriginals, Indians, Jamaicans, Chinese, etc. The terms we use are different. But that’s about it.

    And you’re very right that it happens at different times in our history because of the immigration policies, so it looks and feels different. Our open-door appearance hasn’t been more tolerant, we just let people be who they are as long as they stay on “their” side of town.

    Racism is racism is racism.

  9. Hilary wrote:

    Excellent post. I’m a white American currently working and studying in Canada and I’ve also had weird experiences of people assuming that racism and other social problems are much worse in the US while ignoring them in their home country. Though I should also say that I’ve met many socially conscious Canadians who deplore oppression everywhere.

    I intended to come to your book launch (if you actually end up reading this, Ms. Meminger) as I’m a great fan of the TO Women’s Bookstore but it was finals period and I ended up swamped with work. Sorry to see I missed an interesting discussion and I’ll be on the lookout for your book. I was also unaware of the difference between US and Canadian immigration policies as they’ve impacted South Asians.

    I’ve been hassled by American border patrol and been informed, among other things, that Canadian universities are deplorable (not true) and generally harangued about about going to a Canadian university, as if it’s anyone’s business but my own. For the record, I intend to return to the US after I graduate but am enjoying the paradigm shift of living in Canada. It’s true that they treat non-white travelers even worse, or anyone perceived as non-North American (by conservative, white American standards). It’s disgusting.

  10. Luis wrote:

    Japanese-Canadians were also interned by the Canadian government during World War II. Japanese-Peruvians were as well.

    It’s a shared transcontinental shame, not just an American thing.

    Canada doesn’t have a legacy of slavery for the same reason that the North of the U.S. didn’t have a long lasting legacy–it wasn’t particularly profitable. Don’t doubt Canadians would have fought against the reforms of 1833 like their Caribbean and South Asian colonial counterparts if their livelihoods depended on chattel slavery.

    Too many people take comfort in this myth that the United States is exceptionally racist. It’s not, there is just a strong legacy of vocal protest against oppression. People think that the silence in their own countries equates to a lack of racism. Not that Canada doesn’t also have a history of speaking out, I think the point is more relevant to other countries. I wouldn’t say America or Canada has it worse, they’re just different.

  11. Archana wrote:

    I’m really looking forward to your post – I’m moving from the US to Toronto this summer (for my husband’s job) and one of the really attractive things about TO is the sheer number of desis. Right now, I live in a great but small midwestern town without a lot of diversity. It is really interesting to hear a bit about the historical differences between our two countries when it comes to South Asians. I wonder whether South Asians have been able to rise to powerful positions over the past few generations as they have been here. I’m talking about corporate boards, skilled professions, government/elected officials, etc.

  12. Elton wrote:

    In Canada, we as children fought the slur of “Paki” by distancing ourselves from it. We tried to explain to our tormentors that we could not be Pakis because Paki comes from the word Pakistan and we were from India. Therefore we could not be Pakis. And those of us who were from Pakistan came up with other stories to prove that we were not the same as the people our tormentors hated. In the U.S., immediately after the attacks, there was a major media campaign that had television commercials at regular intervals with people of all backgrounds proudly proclaiming, “I am an American.” In other words, I am not the Muslim, Arab, Brown, terrorist, “other” that you hate; I am just like you.

    Great point about attempting to appease mainstreamers by distancing yourself from the other. It’s a losing game–giving them license to hate the other but not you is just traitorous and opportunist, and will backfire due to its inherent hypocrisy. One shouldn’t hate, period.

  13. Restructure! wrote:

    Note to Americans: When they asked, “Would you say South Asians in the U.S. are more assimilated than South Asians in Canada?”, assimilation in Canada is considered negative, and has the connotations of “conforming”.

    To Neesha:

    Things like the fact that most of the South Asians in the U.S. were recruited during the “Brain Drain” from India in the 60s and 70s while Canada threw open its doors to “unskilled labor” from parts of South Asia. And that this history is critical in looking at the differences between the experiences of South Asians in the U.S. and Canada. Whereas the “professionals” who came over to the U.S. became a “model minority” – held up as examples of what was possible if one were to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, unskilled laborers sweated in low pay factory jobs, stood for hours on assembly lines, and cleaned up after their Canadian bosses.

    But most South Asians in Canada are still highly educated professionals, and Canada has skills-based point system of immigration, while the U.S. does not. While it is true that new visible minority immigrants to Canada usually have low incomes, one reason is that their advanced degrees are not recognized here, and Canadian employers want “Canadian experience” and degrees from Canadian universities. (For some reason, white immigrants are less likely to have this problem.) This is the cause of the stereotype in Canada of Indian taxi drivers with PhDs.

    See: Credentials undervalued, minorities say, Immigration: Dream or nightmare?, Cabbies with a degree in unrequited dreams, etc.

    Also Google: tax driver phd indian canada for more information about this. Other keywords work as well.

  14. Pablo wrote:

    Canada likes to define itself against America. It does so by fixating on the negative aspects of America. In this way, Canada makes itself feel good, and Canadian identity is very much intertwined with this feeling of moral superiority.

    Whilst there are many great things about Canada, I have always found that the fixation with the negative aspects of America, so central to Canadian self-esteem and identity, means it can seem sometimes a little complacent, self-righteous, smug and superior.

    And this can also translate into not really acknowledging the real, visceral racist hatred that minorities have faced, and still continue to face at some levels of Canadian life.

  15. Neesha wrote:

    Restructure!:
    During Pierre Elliot Trudeau’s term in office, he reconfigured the points system to make it much easier for “unskilled” laborers to enter Canada in the early 70s and late 60s. Applicants were then free to use other skills (such as farming) to accumulate points. Once he did this, the rate of immigration from India, specifically, grew by 902.7 percent (according to the University of Calgary). I don’t know how to link here, but here’s a URL for a breakdown of the immigration policies since 1946: http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/canada1946/3frame.html.
    At that point, because there were more immigrants available to work factory and other low-paying jobs, there was backlash from segments of the existing Canadian population who felt that the immigrants were taking jobs away from “real” Canadians. Not too far from the view of Mexicans in the U.S.
    Neesha

  16. RCHOUDH wrote:

    I found this post quite interesting in terms of comparing the differing levels of racism found both within the US and Canada. Since I also never heard much about Canadian racism, I also used to assume that it was much less prevalent than in the US. However now I see that it’s there also just in a different form.

    With that said I’d like to point out that I do not understand why a comparison was being made to the fight for one’s rights here in the West, to the fight being made against “the politics of faith” elsewhere. Aren’t women and minorities fighting for their rights everywhere around the world? And saying that women in a specific Muslim country are fighting the “politics of faith” does not take into account the fact that Muslims are not a monolithic entity so Muslims in different countries around the world practice Islam differently.

  17. Restructure! wrote:

    Neesha,

    Thanks for the link. My parents and the parents of my peers (including South Asians) immigrated in the early 80s, so they are more similar to the “model minority” stereotype. I was born in the 80s, so when I was growing up, South Asians were stereotyped as engineers, doctors, etc.

    I had initially thought that you were making a connection between “I understood, then, on a much deeper level, why that push for assimilation was so strong south of the border” and “Things like the fact that most of the South Asians in the U.S. were recruited during the “Brain Drain” from India in the 60s and 70s while Canada threw open its doors to “unskilled labor” from parts of South Asia.” But I realize that I had misread, and those are the separate half-formed thoughts.

    I wanted to point out the wasted talent of visible minority immigrants with advanced degrees, so that non-Canadians don’t get the idea that new visible minority immigrants (as in within the past 10 years) in Canada are poor because they are uneducated.

  18. Sobia wrote:

    @ Rchoudh:

    Good point. I wondered that too when I first read it. It seemed out of place or unbalanced. I also wasn’t sure what the purpose of comparing South Asians’ struggles in Canada to that of some Muslim women in some Muslim communities. Why not compare it to South Asians in South Asia? Or the struggle of Indian women in India?

  19. Neesha wrote:

    Restructure!: You were making a good point. I was clarifying mine :) .

    Rchoudh: it wasn’t a comparison. “Aren’t women and minorities fighting for their rights everywhere around the world?” Agreed. This was my point to the question of “Is US racism worse than Canadian racism?” There is no such thing as “worse” oppression anywhere. It is different.

    We are all fighting for justice and, as I wrote in my post, our very basic human rights (this addresses Sobia’s question as well — why *not* compare struggles across borders?). Women (of many faiths) are fighting the politics of faith all over the world — the example I used was the most recently plastered all over Canadian media during my recent trip up. My point was that whether the struggle is race here in the west where many races/nationalities/ethnicities are thrown together, or gender, class, sexuality in countries where race is not the most obvious issue, the struggle is still for human rights and freedoms. (This is *not* to say that gender, class, sexuality and other struggles are not a reality here, as well, obviously.)

    And now I will step *away* from the discussion :) . Thanks, everyone, for all the great comments.

  20. Ruby wrote:

    Sobia

    Because in an interconnected, globalised world, people reference different contexts and situations to make a point about the continuing struggles that women face in different places. I did not find that unbalanced in the slightest.