Coming out Black and Agnostic

by Guest Contributor Tami, originally published at What Tami Said

The Devil is wearing mittens and I expect a ham to fly past my window any second now. Why? Salon has published a letter from an African American in its Cary Tennis advice column. To be fair, most writers to the column don’t mention their race, so I could be wrong in guessing that most queries come from white, urban, highly-educated, highly-privileged liberals. One thing is clear, rarely does Tennis tackle issues unique to people of color.

Today’s dilemma comes from a black man who is disaffected from the church. Unlike his conservative, Christian wife and family, he has come to know that he is agnostic–he believes that the truth about the afterlife, deities and ultimate reality is unknowable. While the writer wants to be true to himself, he is hesitant to come out to his family–afraid of the fractures his lack of faith might cause.

I feel that I am now at a point where I must make a declaration that will surely affect those who are close to me. My loved ones have long suspected that there was something “different” about my approach to spiritual subjects, but up until now I have successfully hidden my true thoughts, philosophical developments and feelings from them.

    * With every Sunday that I sit in a church that would likely condemn my kind, I feel like I am betraying my potential and misleading my spouse.
    * With every public prayer uttered “in Jesus’ name” I feel like I am living a lie.
    * With every in-depth discussion about religious and social topics, I use evasive humor and agile commentary to distract my conversation partners — fearing that a sustained encounter would lead to the exposure of my controversial religious and philosophical views.

But one can only do this for so long before wondering if such attempts to suppress one’s true self for fear of offending the sensibilities of others is really worth it. One can only maintain a facade so long before wondering if doing so also erodes one’s sense of integrity while also denying loved ones the opportunity to know, understand and accept the “true” you. Read more…

What to do?

Tennis gave one of his predictably lofty and meandering non-answers to “Churchgoing Agnostic”–advice that, I think, doesn’t take into account the unique relationship the black community has with Christianity. The Black Church, as an institution, is about more than worship. It is about community, history, activism and more. For many, Christianity and churchgoing are part of the very fabric of African Americanness. For a people whose African ancestors practiced indigenous religions far removed from the Western view of worship, we have embraced Christianity as ours. A recent survey revealed that blacks are more religious in key ways – including frequency of church attendance, daily prayer life and certainty of belief – than the U.S. population as a whole. Quiet as it’s kept, a whole lot of those presumably white, conservative, Evangelical Christians that get so much ink, look like me.

Atheism, agnosticism, even other world religions, such as Buddhism or Hinduism, are belief systems “those other folks” dabble in, not black folk–or so conventional wisdom says. Even Islam (a common modern-day religion in the lands of our ancestors, as well as the United States) and historically black religions, such as Yoruba and Rastafarianism get the side eye.

I am not arguing the merit of one path or another. I am wondering what happens when you know your religious path is not the one in which you and most other black Americans were raised? When Christianity (Protestant Christianity) is so engrained in your culture, when it has been a life preserver in the turbulent storm that is the history of blacks in America (although some might argue the opposite), how does one extract themselves from that (if that is what he or she wants to do)? It occurs to me that what the letter writer may face could be explosive.

One Salon commenter agrees. Assezmalicieuse says:

I wish the LW so much luck. I am already outside of the African American church community because I was raised Catholic and have been an atheist since the age of 15, but I know how gut-wrenching such a separation will be because the black Protestant community is not just a place one goes to worship, it literally can become the social center of one’s life. Voluntarily cutting himself off from his religious community is like suffering a cherem. It’s worse than excommunication; it’s literally a social exclusion which could seriously damage his marriage and literally leave him isolated, but I believe one must always “to one’s own heart, be true.” Most of the truly devout black folks I know (and who I count as family, including my Roman Catholic parents) have been taught to “love the sinner and hate the sin.” If his wife truly lives by Christian ideals, her love for the LW will not be diminished in the face of this challenge. However, if his marriage cannot weather the storm, it’s better that the LW know there are certain limitations in his marriage which his wife cannot overcome, leaving them both free to find partners which share their belief systems. It’s a hard risk to take, but I cannot imagine living my life differently for fear of losing someone who may not love and respect me for who I truly am, not what they wish me to be.

So, what advice would I give Churchgoing Agnostic? If he were a friend, I would suggest he not make any major pronouncements regarding his beliefs. After all, faith–or lack off–is very personal and needn’t be a public affair. I don’t care for proselytizing of any stripe–religious or secular. I would suggest he dialogue more with his wife about his beliefs on religion to ease her into understanding his views. The hard part will be shedding religious rituals that feel uncomfortable to him, especially ones that are part of his community and family. If he has been attending church every Sunday and prayer service every Wednesday, a sudden disappearance will guarantee some sort of prying confrontation. What then?

I feel a little icky about my advice. It feels like recommending that the letter writer lie to both himself and those he loves. But don’t we do that sometimes, where other things are involved, to keep the peace? The key is striking the balance–keeping the peace without denying your essential being. Bah! I don’t know. My way seems like the coward’s way.

What about you, readers? Have you broken from the religion of your family and community? Are you an African American Buddhist; are you black and Jewish? Are you atheist or agnostic?

What is your advice to Churchgoing Agnostic?

UPDATE: The Hispanic Fanatic has a good post up about religion and the Hispanic community here.

(Image Credit: “Black Church Face,” Gilbert and George, 1980)

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  1. Black Atheists « Afrodescendiente on 15 May 2009 at 3:23 pm

    [...] http://www.racialicious.com/2009/04/29/coming-out-black-and-agnostic/ [...]

Comments

  1. atlasien wrote:

    This is also a major Southern issue. Here, the church is not just about spiritual beliefs, it’s about networking for jobs, educating your children, exerting pressure in local political races, even going to the gym and getting your hair cut (some church-related services are really outrageous…). On introduction, people will often ask, “what church do you go to?”

    I’m both a Buddhist and an agnostic, and Asian. I go to a non-credal congregation (that is, welcoming of very different spiritual beliefs) primarily for the social networking benefits, of which there are many. However, it’s very white. The few black people that belong are atheists and/or openly LGBT, and they tend to have made difficult transitions from the Christian churches of their upbringing. So it’s always going to be a trade-off. You CAN have spiritual integrity, community, social activism and networking, but you will have to sacrifice other things. It’s all about priorities.

    I wouldn’t know how to address the situation with his wife though… yikes, that’s going to be difficult.

  2. Nina wrote:

    I posted to that thread as well. I go to church occasionally, I like the architecture and the candles. Since I’m Catholic, black ppl down here in the Deep South already think I’m some sort of devil worshiper. Being an atheist? More of the same. So its not a huge jump in perception.

    The result for me is an almost total lack of community, there isn’t outright social ostracism since my atheism isn’t known. But being not part of a church community seems to mean not being part of ANY community down here in the boonies.

    There is a tiny group of atheists here that have a MeetUp, I may attend the meetings. In the meantime, it SUCKS.

    When I do go to church I feel its my business WHY I go and feel no need to share that with anyone.

    If the LW’s wife is as I imagine her to be, he is looking at a hard road ahead of him. Either lose his loved ones or live a lie emotionally and mentally disconnected and feeling out of sync with those who are close to him. I would find the false intimacy unbearable.

  3. Stella wrote:

    Ouch, I don’t know how I’d deal with that. I’m an atheist and didn’t come from a seriously religious family but my mom still got mad at me when I told her I didn’t believe in God when I was in high school. I’m also white and now live in an urban area where other atheists live so I don’t rely on the support system that church provides.

    Church really does provide a place for people to meet and share their most important moments, birth, marriage, death, etc. Being without that kind of makes me sad sometimes. There are Unitarian churches that accept the agnostic POV but they’re also mostly white.

    I really don’t know what I’d do in his situation. I’d like to think that he could be truthful with his wife and go to the church for the socialization part, if that would be possible.

  4. Cosmic wrote:

    I agree that church is often more than faith, often a place you make life long friendships and network with others.
    I come from a religious background, the whole of my immediate family is Christian (Evangelical) and up until a year and a half ago, I was as devout as they come. Bible-bashing, song praising, street-preaching, Christian Youth Conference attending, cell group running, Jesus loving, friend converting (at least I tried to) Christian.By the way I was raised in Britian but born in the Sudan.
    I struggled with my faith for two years after leaving home and attending university. It was last summer when I accepted that my answers were no longer being answered (”God works in mysterious ways” was no longer satisfactory to me). I consider myself an agnostic-atheist as weird as that sounds. It’s mainly because there are days when I feel like there is or HAS to be something there but it’s not for us to know and other days when I feel so dismayed with the world, I’m convinced that this is it, it’s evolution and when we die it’s over.
    The hardest thing was telling my parents and some of my friends who are super religious. My mother has decided that I let the devil into my life and she doesn’t like it. My father says much the same but he laughs at my decision, dismissing it as nothing more than a passing phase. My brothers were very understanding (bar my eldest who’s in denial), they went through their own periods of disbelief and feel that everyone needs to find their own way. My closest friends have been very good about it and pretty much understand what I’m saying (my closest friends are Muslim, Christian, Atheist etc). Some have sensed it and haven’t pressed me about it, they remain my friends. But I haven’t told them all, I fear the reaction of certain friends because they can be judgemental. I fear the reaction of a good Reverend friend who took me under his wing and helped me understand my ex-faith. I stayed with him and his wife on many occassions. He was always happy to debate with me and even baptised me at 16 yrs old. I know if I tell them, they’ll be devasted and I can’t take that. I can’t take people being disappointed with my decision or trying to “revert” me.
    I know that I will have to tell them all eventually and risk losing the closeness I have with some of them. I would rather do that than keep lying to them and myself. Things like this tend to come with a slip of the tongue or an action. Losing the community will be hard but you can’t really be in it if you need to remain in denial of what you feel in order not to step on anyone’s toes. It was weird not going to church and everything else at first but it makes sense and you get used to it eventually. I would agree with Assezmalicieuse’s surmising the situation with the wife. He can either keep lying to them and himself and keep the peace or accept that they both deserve to be happy and themselves. It’s not an easy decision to make by any stretch.

  5. Aja wrote:

    I remember the conversation with my mother when I told her that I was (at that point) agnostic. It was tearful. I was breaking her heart. My parents are both southern, and the church has such an important place in their lives. Like atlasien mentioned, it’s not just about spirituality, it’s social, it’s political, it’s communal. In my mom’s eyes, I was rejecting a whole community, not just a religion, not just a belief.

    I don’t think we’ve ever really repaired that rift. My mother still hopes that someday I’ll find my way back to the church, and mentions it every chance she gets. I have learned to just nod, smile, stay quiet, and not have the same argument over and over again. So, I guess that doesn’t really answer your question. I haven’t really handled anything, I’ve just quietly avoided it.

  6. phoenix ray wrote:

    I can relate to this. up until about a year ago, I would have considered myself christian. now I am leaning towards becoming an Essene. I haven’t made up my mind yet. being away at school makes it easier for me to ignore my mom when she asks when I am going to go to church. when I’m home, I just go with her to the Methodist church. I was never a member of a black church, although my mom’s stepfather was a pastor of a small church until he got sick and passed away. I’m not sure what I’m going to tell my mom about my beliefs once I make up my mind. She can be understanding about somethings but about this I’m not too sure. just have to wait and see. I hope LW’s situation turns out okay.

  7. Abu Sinan wrote:

    I am a white American, raised Protestant in an otherwise Catholic family, and I converted to Islam about 11 years ago.

    It can be a very hard choice to make. Only this guy knows his family well. Some families will dump you if you make the wrong choice.

    Umar Lee has said that a white person who converts to Islam becomes an “apostate to the white race”. I am not sure I can agree it goes that far, it certainly sets us FAR outside the norm of white culture in the USA.

    Will outing himself as an agnostic cost him that much? Will he loose his family? His wife divorce him? When you remove yourself from the boundries of accepted cultural behavior these things can happen.

    He needs to ask himself if being true to himself is worth the price he might have to pay? In my case I went for it, but it was different because I was opting FOR a religion, not opting OUT of all religion.

    Personally I find it hard to have to participate, day in and day out, in a belief system I didnt share.

  8. Leslie wrote:

    I am 26, African American, female, and agnostic. I did not really know that agnostic was a label that applied to me until I read this. I’d heard the term used different ways but never ascribed to it personally. The way I feel is this: I don’t know if God/gods exist but it is possible. Life still has meaning. Death is a part of life, just as much as eating, sex, pain, purpose, and I believe that those things can exist with or without God. I love learning about other religions, faiths, cultures, languages and I embrace the fact that many people feel strongly about their faith. I believe there is an energy or essence to us that exists before and after life but I don’t know what that is. And I’m ok with that.
    Cool post, thanks!

  9. Lisa J wrote:

    Wow. This sounds hard. I feel for the man. I think the author’s advice of being true to himself and telling his wife how he feels. He could also cut back on or stop going to church and he should basically tell anyone who asks him about it that it is personal and he’d rather not discuss it with them. If they can’t respect that, then he needs to stand firm and to the extent possible, limit his contact with them.

    I am African-American and wasn’t really raised in the church. I had some exposure through relatives, friends of the family, going to Vacation Bible School one summer when visiting a family friend, and 2 years at a private Lutheran elementary school where it was mandatory to attend church and Sunday school every week.

    As I got older, I knew we were different from most of the other black folks we knew and my many Aunts and Uncles -Mom was one of 12. I had one Uncle (by marriage thank goodness) who from when I was 7 or 8 through high school, would always chastise me b/c I didn’t go to church. As if I really had much choice from those ages about going or not going to church. I was crazy about him when I was small but I really grew to dislike him as I got older for his proselytizing and judgment of me (he reduced me to tears once yelling at me that I didn’t believe in God). Since then I have been very wary of people who wear their religion too much on their sleeve because it reminds me of him and I worry about being judged. In some ways I feel like I’ve missed out on some of the black experience by not being a churchgoer, but then when I am in a black church I feel claustrophobic (and have done since I was little). People often seem surprised when I they find out I don’t go to church. No idea why.

  10. kenda wrote:

    I wish I had advice for LW, but I am still unsure of how to address my religious black family. I’m not sure what label best fits me, but I definitely not a Baptist like the rest of my family. As much as I have tried, I cannot bring myself to believe in the things they do. I told my parents a couple of years ago about my lack of faith and they responded pretty hysterically. Now, they just pretend the conversation never happened. It’s not an ideal situation, but I can live with it.

  11. Xey wrote:

    I’m African-American and Southern, and I was raised Christian. I converted/reverted to Islam in 2005. I’m also very liberal/libertarian which helped me be an anomaly both in Christianity and now in Islam. I don’t like to separate myself from anyone else, per se, but I just prefer to think for myself and try to see the bigger picture. That’s another story.

    I found my family to be somewhere between “okay” and “relatively supportive” when I converted. My father – who goes to a Baptist church ’sometimes’ and still pays his tithes to his home church – responded a lot less negatively than my very religious “Jew for Jesus” mother (she’s also embraced something besides what she was raised with).

    This year, though, in the informational letter about my family reunion, my cousin (who found out a couple years ago that I’m Muslim) wrote that whoever comes to the family reunion should not miss out on the church service that we always have at the reunion (I guess there’s an assumption that we’re all Christian). And, he said that the special prayer this year is that someone in the family who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal lord and saviour be saved. Hmmm. I wonder who person that could be?

  12. J. Alexandre Martel wrote:

    I am a 29 year old Haitian American, who was raised in the Roman Catholic faith. My mother is devoutly Catholic and attends church almost every day. My father only goes to church for baptisms, Holy Communions, Confirmations, weddings, and funerals. He never seemed to be the religious type, although my mother says he is a believer. My younger brother who is 23 is also a believer. Throughout my youth I have always questioned the existence of a “God.” At age 13 and 16, I short bouts of atheism. It was not until I was 19 years old that no longer believed in a “God.” However coming from conservative Catholic background, I never announced my lack of faith to my family or my extended family.

    I haven’t been afraid to announce my atheism to people outside my family. At several jobs I have had, I have been upfront to people (black, white, Latino, etc) who were curious about my faith. Some whites are surprised because they never met an atheist of color. While many blacks think I might struck by lightning for openly and proudly announcing my atheism.

    As a black atheist, I must admit a bit of resentment towards blacks of faith. Usually because of the power and sway they hold over the community. I don’t like that the black church has brought the black community to warm embrace of the Democratic Party. I resent them because of the hypocrisy and contradictions. For as much as the black church criticizes the Republican Party or conservative whites, there sure is a hell of lot of similarities when it comes to homophobia, environmental issues, sexism, and sex education.

    I see black people of my generation who are materialistic, elitists, gossips, curse and swear, sexually promiscuous, smoke weed, get drunk, but go to church on Sundays, only to repeat the same behaviors. These same people look down on me when say I don’t believe in a higher power.

  13. akoma wrote:

    Wow. I can definitely relate to this man. I was raised evangelical christian as well. I suppose the difference between my situation and his is that I realized that faith had shifted much earlier than he had. I’m not in a position where my partner and entire social network are connected to the church. And, no, I’m not “out” to my family either. My partner, also black, is an avowed atheist(!); that’s a carefully guarded secret. Everyone knows something is up, but my mother has chosen to ignore the fact that I only go to church sometimes to please the family.

    Sometimes, I wish I still had that faith, if only so life could be a little easier.

  14. Aishtamid wrote:

    I can feel some of LW’s pain, having come out as agnostic to a religious family where my father was once president of our synagogue. It can be very lonely – sudden isolation and blacklisting from people you once trusted. I think in the end it is extremely important to be true to yourself. I wouldn’t want LW to feel guilty living a lie. But leaving such a strong religious community can be perilous for one’s mental and emotional health, not to mention his marriage. There would almost certainly be some social problems for LW, but we don’t know a few variables. We’re not sure how understanding his wife and family truly are, only that they are religious and that doesn’t mean they are intolerant of other views.

    On a side note to Abu Sinan, what would this Umar Lee say to Bosnian and Chechen Muslims? Are they “betraying their race?” The ummah is a worldwide, multi-racial and multi-ethnic community. That said, you’re right to say that white Muslims in the U.S. are few and not near the norm of society here.

  15. Tracey wrote:

    AGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    This speaks to me so much. I was raised in a very religious home, and my mom is very, very, Christian. I begin questioning my beliefs in high school but tried to “force” myself to believe in college by attending meetings of a Christian club on campus. I tried to believe, and accept it without questioning, wishing I could be like the people dancing and crying around me.This only further convinced me that I did not believe many of the things I had grew up believing I was suppose to believe.
    I stopped IDing as Christian and my mom called me a devil worshiper saying that if it is not Christian it is of the devil. I looked into Buddhism for a while and she told me those white people were probably going to kill me and that I was worshiping nothing. I heard the same thing about “real” black people being Christian. It is like not being Christian (or Muslim) is the ultimate betrayal of black culture, even to those people who only talk the talk.
    I never really stopped believing in some kind of divine force, though I began to believe it was defiantly more intrinsic than I had been led to believe. I was led to the Quakers and eventually to identifying as a Unitarian (Christian) , and I feel this is defiantly for me. Unfortunately, most Quakers in the U.S. are white and older as well. My mom calls me a member of a cult and a traitor to the black community. She refuses to even hear my beliefs regarding religion and says that it is wrong to question faith. period. She refuses to even discuss contradictions in the Bible and accuses me of being an agent of the devil.
    So yeah, dealing with family rejection can be troubling and annoying, and having to deal with people trying to “save” you, especially because they believe all black people should be Christians. But for me it’s worth it. Had I never opened up and been honest about my beliefs I would never have grown spiritually. But it is something that may tear apart a family and its up to individuals to determine if it’s worth it. My mom is constantly trying to force me to go to church, etc., etc., but that unquestioning view of Christianity with a Trinity, non-universalism, and belief in Bible as error proof and absolute goes against my spiritual and moral beliefs. Sitting through church would have been totally insincere and hypocritical for me. Even then I sometimes feel it would have been worth it just until I was able to move out given what it’s done to our relationship. Sounds harsh, but it’s true. woohoo for one of first Buddhist congresspeople being black and both being POC. And Hank Johnson is from Ga. no less which makes me have hope when a black non-Christian can win a seat from the southeast.

  16. Dim Mati wrote:

    I’m not a Christian. Raised in a mixed religious & ethnic household-Catholic & Methodist & Native American & Bermudian-my family raised us to have faith in God, live right & try not to screw up too much. Mass was for High Holy days or when you really wanted to get out of bed. I was told from a very young age that you can talk to God everyday, pray everyday…religion isn’t important & a church is just a place to socialize: it’s your own faith that truly matters.

    I understand & recognize the necessity of the Black church throughout American history & as a backbone of the African American community but frankly, it’s not enough & it excludes a lot of Blacks in this country with good ideas & organizations that can help African Americans. I remember some years ago Cornell West was speaking at Black summit hosted by Tavis Smiley. He made a comment that if every member of Black churches put money they were putting into the church building fund into the United Negro College Fund, they could fund thousand of kids going to college. He’s suggestion was met with silence.

    I just don’t bother talking to other African-Americans about religion or faith because, to me, most of the the opinion that if you’re not Christian or as one co-worker said, ‘accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior’ then you’re lost or going to hell or (fill in the blank, I know you’ve heard them all). Never mind that Buddhists, Islam, other religions have been around longer than Christian.

    Whether a person believes in God or not, it’s a decision that’s up to them & their close family. I say the court of popular opinion needs to shut up & listen for a change…they might learn something.

  17. Antihero wrote:

    I don’t envy the author of the piece at all. It sounds incredibly difficult. His happiness is worth no less than his family’s, particularly for something he cannot control, so he should not deny his true self. I guess that’s easy for someone who was never raised in any sort of church to say, however…

    I, like J. Alexandre in #12, have never been one to hide or deny my atheism, even in the face of both friends and family. It isn’t worth the energy it would take to fake a belief in something simply because other people *do*.

    I have always genuinely wondered where other black atheists are… as far as I’ve known, I’ve been the only one and the looks I’ve received upon discussing it have been “interesting” to say the least.

  18. atlasien wrote:

    @Tracey: Hank Johnson is my rep! He doesn’t really publicize his faith but he certainly doesn’t hide it.

    He’s actually the first open Buddhist in Congress. I don’t count Mazie Hirono (D-HI) although she’s often listed as such… she was raised in the Jodo Shu tradition but has stated she’s not actively practicing.

    People in my neck of the woods are a strange combination of very religious and very tolerant. Of course, Hank Johnson replaced Cynthia McKinney, who was also a religious minority (Catholic).

  19. Ebonmuse wrote:

    This is a tough dilemma, and I don’t have an easy answer for it. But I do want to make one point for Churchgoing Agnostic – which is that, if he doesn’t come clean about his nonbelief and his wife finds out anyway, it may wind up doing far more harm to his marriage than if he had been honest with her from the start and had the ability to ease her into the revelation.

    Antihero: I suspect there are plenty of black and minority atheists, but many of them are probably in the same boat as the original questioner – afraid to speak up about their nonbelief lest they be ostracized by friends and family. The tragic thing is that this isolation is self-perpetuating, because if other black atheists don’t know of any like-minded companions, they too will be discouraged from speaking out.

    To break this cycle, what we really need is some respected, outspoken African-Americans who aren’t reluctant to come forward as nonbelievers. We’ve had such leaders in the past – W.E.B. DuBois was one.

  20. RainaWeather wrote:

    My advice is to just tell his wife one day when they’re both alone and have nothing to do. Rip the band aid off because keeping this a secret cannot be healthy.

  21. TMA wrote:

    Yes, this is a tough situation. I’m southern and grew up going to baptist church (almost) every Sunday. While my mother didn’t seem that religious to me when I was younger (compared to some of my aunts who would have my cousins in church 3 or more times a week), she has definitely become more “religious” with age. Conversely, my father didn’t believe in organized religion and openly said that around whomever, my mother’s family included. Needless to say they were scandalized.

    Even though I was baptized at the age of 9, was a member of the Junior Usher Board, and once won a church oration contest with my self-written speech “How To Be A Christian” (probably going to burn for that one, lol!), something about having to accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior or else face eternal hellfire upon death never struck me as quite right. I left home at age 16 to attend a high school two hours from my hometown; my junior year I was a member of my school’s gospel choir. By the next year, I rarely, if ever attended church.

    It’s hard not believing what your were raised and taught to believe, however, that’s exactly what happened to me. I’m in my early 30’s now and only attend church when I visit my parents; to make my mother happy. I’m still “closeted” to my family about my non-church going ways; it still distresses my mother. But I don’t like what I hear when I go to church. I don’t like the way it makes me feel. And as a Black woman, I hate that belonging to a “church community” is a major litmus test of what makes one Black. Currently, I like in Brooklyn, NY so I don’t feel strange about not going to church. However, when I was in North Carolina last summer for nine weeks, I realized that I would never have a community unless I went to church. And I decided that I don’t want to live in a place where that’s my only access to my “community.”

    I believe in God. I occasionally pray. But I don’t like church and I don’t believe in one of the major tenets of Christianity. And sometimes that makes me feel like a freak (as one of my college friends told me, it makes me a heathen *sigh*). And I must say, I gained a lot of opportunities to develop my talents in my church community; I received so much encouragement growing up. However, I realized I have to be true to myself. And in 2009, why is/should the church be one of the only places were Black children can receive the same kind of encouragement I did.

    Two years ago, my father joined the church my mother belongs to, the same one I grew up going to. He said he did it for several reasons, one of the major ones to make my mother happy. I felt betrayed but I realized that he had a right to make his own decisions. I wish I felt that others in my family, including my mother, would support and understand my wish to do the same.

  22. Abu Sinan wrote:

    @

    You write:

    “On a side note to Abu Sinan, what would this Umar Lee say to Bosnian and Chechen Muslims? Are they “betraying their race?” The ummah is a worldwide, multi-racial and multi-ethnic community. That said, you’re right to say that white Muslims in the U.S. are few and not near the norm of society here.”

    Historically Bosnians and Chechans are very mixed with the Turks who eventually converted them, so to say that they are white, in the western political/societal sense isnt true. In this sense white skin doesnt equal “white”.

    Of course the ummah is world wide and multi-raced, but racial issues are still a HUGE issue within it. Ideally the only differences between Muslims is their piety, but that is far from reality.

    As to the notion of white privledge and loosing it when one converts to Islam, I dont buy except in the most limited sense. Even a beared, kuffiyah wearing white Muslim man in this country still has privledge.

  23. Antihero wrote:

    Ebonmuse: Good point. I do wonder how the cycle of perpetual fear even discussing atheism/agnosticism can be broken in the black community. BTW, great blog.

    Christianity is such an ingrained portion of much of the black community, that one can’t even find comedians or sitcoms that do not somehow allude to it. As you said, there is probably a larger portion of black non-believers, but we shall probably never know.

    If Tracey and Dim Mati can get grief for being believers who do not fall lockstep within what is seen as ‘proper’ black spirituality, what does that say for what the non-believers can do to be taken seriously?

  24. Tracey wrote:

    @ Dim Mati: the example of the reception of Cornwell’s comments is so true and I think one of the reasons I must admit I am a bit bitter. I understand people want to feel supported, but it appears when it comes to black churches, a lot of them have left community organizing and community empowerment and replaced it with intolerance and self-righteousness. There are churches that do great things but judging by some of these churches you would think they believed having a huge steeple and thousand dollar windows was doing more for the glory of G-d than investing in the community. I remember watching on CNN how some churches were getting foreclosed on b/c they had taken out these multi-million dollar mortgages. Then I see five or six churches in a one mile radius in a mostly black community and can’t help but think how much money they’re collecting but not investing.

  25. Asada wrote:

    @ Dim mati

    Right on.

    I am glad you brought up Cornell Wests point of view. Just looking at wealth in Black families, so much good could be done if money was donated to area clinics, schools and community projects, Instead of churchs that rarely fund ANY of this. ppl could also get tax breaks ( give and it will come back to you, LOL).

    Many Church seem to be good businesses that encourage ppl to give money, for the main purpose of supporting itself. That’s why I had to stop giving.

  26. Jackie wrote:

    Even though I go to church now, there was a period right after college that I stopped going. Just flat out refused to go.

    For me, it wasn’t so much a loss of faith but a lack of recognition of any sort of message coming from the pulpit. Plus with my checkered religious history (went to Catholic school but grew up as a United Methodist, ended up at Texas Christian University for 2.5 years – not my fault), something was bound to give. We rarely talked about faith in our family at all so I didn’t have to go through major trauma – just the occasional grumpiness about not getting up on a Sunday.

    When my spiritual wanderings ended, and I ended up back in a church, it was in a completely different denomination. Fortunately, my father (the big church person in our family) didn’t have a cow.

    I feel for the original poster. Like everyone else has mentioned, the potential loss of family and community is something no one wants to contemplate but at the same time, what is he losing in himself day by day by not being true to his inner most self? Does him not bringing his whole being – disbelief and all, love included – hurt his marriage?

    Some church folk tend to not ask themselves those global questions in the rush to condemn those who do not believe as they do. And that is just flat out wrong.

  27. BSK wrote:

    Tami-

    I have to respectfully disagree with your advice. I do agree that he doesn’t necessarily need to stand up and proclaim his agnosticism. But to hide it seems to accept and promote the status quo, which in certain ways is discriminatory. I understand the role that church plays in the black community and recognize the importance of this role; however, if this role has been perverted to exclude those who follow other faiths or worldviews, than that is wrong.

    Would we advise an LGBT person to hide his/her sexual orientation because of backlash? No, because doing so implies that the assumed backlash is valid. It is not.

    Are there not other ways for the LW to be involved in the black community/black church without being a practicing member? Are the ties that bind the community really based in shared religious beliefs, or are there larger tenets of the community that are conflated with the obvious commonality and community of the church?

    You made many valid points, and I think your uneasiness over your advice implies a recognition of my points here. I would love to hear more, because I realize I may be making analogies that are not 100% analogous or might somehow be misunderstanding/misrepresenting the role of the church in the black community. Thanks!

  28. pololly wrote:

    Bringing a slightly different perspective as a current Christian who has attended AA churches but was brought up in a Yoruba speaking African church in the UK. I really don’t want to comment on people’s experiences of religious community and rejection/acceptance in those cases but want to specifically address the issue of church ‘corruption’ in the African American church.

    I do not want to underplay or minimize the genuine problems in the approaches that many churches take, and in the appalling horrible behavior that many churches display.

    But… when I was growing up I became fairly disillusioned with my (now fairly integrated) church – not my religion – but Christians. They were all so f**ked up. My church seemed to be full of charlatans (who appeared like clockwork every year, worked to ingratiate themselves into the congregation and then usually revealed themselves to be narcissistic liars with chronic – and usually sexual – issues.) Then there were the bad marriages who only married because they were pregnant and there was church pressure, the manipulative and destructive gossips who preyed on vulnerable people, the way people ‘fell away’ and you never saw them again, despite the fact that they were like family, the weirdos who appeared and hung around for a few weeks before disappearing (hopefully to prison), the cliques, the drama, the disorganization, the grand plans – I just couldn’t be bothered. I’ll be honest as well – I felt a stronger pull to the majority white churches which looked so much more drama free, a bit more middle class, and in the UK are not even really that conservative, and I went off to college and joined a really white bread church which I attended on and off.

    But over the past few years, and with a bit of time behind me in some AA churches, I have to say that I’ve really come round on a lot of my problems they face and I can now approach it with a bit of compassion, I hope.

    Here’s the thing: churches and other community based organizations do, and have in the past, picked up a lot of slack within society and are only made up of (imperfect) people and it’s better to evaluate them by those standards.

    Having now worked in the govt sector, in the third sector on the service provision side, the problems these organizations face are exactly the same. Predators and liars are always drawn to vulnerable peoples, who in turn are drawn to possible solutions. Thus any church which genuinely is connected to a community will draw in a lot of vulnerable people. I was really frustrated as a child over the unstable people, the hypocrites and weirdos who just flowed through my church but as an adult looking back, they had nowhere else to go and for a lot of them, they had very very difficult burdens to overcome and church was the closest thing to a safe space for them. And I’ve gotta say – dealing with people is HARD. I worked as a ’secret shopper’ (secretly testing children’s care homes) and the social and care workers made the church folk look like angels (!). The welfare system and NGOs attracted the same mix of predators (definitely – possibly more), the useless, the naive and dangerous, desperately hard working and visionaries. The problem is that without the knowledge to know to deal with really difficult social issues, people just make ignorant uninformed decisions about ‘what is best’.

    The second realization was that when people feel that they have no power, they can try to take power from others. It’s not an excuse but boh aspects need to be addressed. I was sick of johnny just comes rocking up to my church to set up mini Kenya, mini Ghana, especially as the church was beginning to relax and Anglicise away from mini-Nigeria. But I really feel that people felt that their status had been stripped from them and were desperate to recreate experiences which they felt they could control. Educated people being told that all their learning was worth nothing and having to work in menial jobs, while being mocked and harrassed over their accents and mannerisms. The children usually experienced really horrific bullying, because only schools they could attend were the worst. It was traumatic – and it is really no suprise to me that people tried to cling to something they felt comfortable in. Again, those people and those needs would not cease to exist if the church disappeared. All of these phenomena would manifest somewhere else, probably more destructively. I can imagine that, esp for a certain generation, this manifests in the AA community as well. The issue is how to make the church better address this (since this is where many people choose to be) rather than how to dismantle or shame the church over it. The man in a shiny suit and alligator shoes who shouts hallelujah but is addicted to pornograhy* needs as much help as the seemingly delinquent 20 year old on the corner who harrasses old ladies who walk past. It would be nice if people responded to oppression by becoming really nice but there is a limit to how much I will fault people for failing to be saints.

    *Not anto porn per se, but very anti sexual secrecy in churches because it is often masking the abuse of someone, somewhere.

    And in all those white drama free churches, just like in most settings (school, work, homes, anything govt related) behind closed doors people are flawed and selfish and trouble abounds.

    But I’ve seen nothing that suggests that churches (other than because of higher proximity) are somehow special in their flaws. And in a lot of cases, and especially in recent AA history and with many African immigrant communities in the UK, they are going above and beyond what most other bodies are doing, including the govt and (esp in the UK) charities. (From my experience working with recent immigrants, even liberal UK charities have no interest in challenging the horribly colonialist foundations on which they are built and it is very clearly reflected in the classist and racist way in which they communicate with Africans and about immigrant concerns. Most of the immigrants I worked with were very aware of their condescension/disdain)

    Not wanting to silence or derail but just want to bring another perspective in the old ‘black churches are reallllly corrupt’ debate.

  29. Anonymous wrote:

    Great post!
    The presumption of Christianity within the African-American community is rarely discussed.

    As a 33 year-old African-American female who does not identify with any organized religion but does not doubt the existence of the Creator, I have found myself in the author’s position numerous times. It has also been my experience that once I do “come out”, folks don’t know what to think of me and spend a significant amount of time trying to fit me into some predetermined box i.e. “Girl, you’re Christian – you just haven’t been saved yet” or “You must be an atheist”.

    Rarely are folks interested in my true religious/spiritual beliefs, but moreso how to categorize me.

    Thankfully I am surrounded by family and friends who have grown to accept me while not begrudging my individuality.

  30. gatamala wrote:

    I’ve always believed that there were more black atheists, agnostics, deists, freethinkers…As the granddaughter of an AME Zion minister and Episkies (our family manifestation of religion is different from the prosperity, thumper types that have the present stranglehold on black minds and coffers) and the daughter of an atheist & agnostic, please believe that there ARE many of us out there.

    Many of us are afraid to speak up due to the cruel, racial and social ostracism that is inflicted upon us…by people who Love the Lord. It was very painful for me to open my eyes and see the normalized hypocrisy.

    I’ve been called a heathen. I had someone ask me if worshipped the Devil (really, idiot). I proudly wear the badges of heretic (one who chooses) and infidel.

    Should I ever get around to online profiles, I will state up front that I don’t love Jesus, nor am I SAVED. It will turn off many people, the majority – my own. Oh well.

    Tami discussed the historical reasons as to why we love The Church and Christianity so much.

    But I think there are profound psychological ones as well.

    (1) disdain for, or endurance through, the temporal in favor of the spiritual (hereafter)

    (2) it’s the winning team in the US and an avenue to mainstream power (especially the power).

    pololly~ I hear you on this:

    Predators and liars are always drawn to vulnerable peoples, who in turn are drawn to possible solutions

    –It’s ironic to me that an institution (marriage) that is largely dominated by The Church and religion would actually be threatened by his exercise of free thought regarding Christianity. That’s fucked up (especially considering traditional marriage in the community). Hopefully, he doesn’t abandon his children to the morass of that thinking.

  31. Antihero wrote:

    Gatamala:

    Have you found any readings about the subject of psychological attraction to the church itself within the black community? I’ve yet to find anything, but I don’t doubt that it’s there. My interest has been piqued.

  32. Kandeezie wrote:

    That’s what the interwebs is for. I’ve found a bridge that will carry me over to a life without religious tradition.

    Yes, I am selective about the conversations I engage in and it is very isolating at times meeting people that within two seconds disclose their religious beliefs like we are automatically thinking the same because I’m black (then watching them puke a little when they find out otherwise).

    But all in all, I am building a life outside the one I grew up in and in the meantime, reading about other people’s experiences online helps to remind me that it’s not such a crazy idea and not totally isolating. With that reinforcement, I know how to engage with people offline and give a *wink* to others like me. Each community has its own codes and signals. I’m learning to spot those folks out and make a new life with new friends.

    As for the marriage, I’m married to a person who shares my beliefs. I would have to end it if it were otherwise (or make some sort of compromise). I believe my kids should be raised a certain way and that would be a source of intense disagreement, so it wouldn’t work.

  33. Camille wrote:

    I’m black and casually Christian. I never felt alienated, I never thought I was outside of the main black group or whatever. But I think I may have been a bit different from the start. My mother’s entire family is Catholic. Some of them attend all black Catholic churches, but even in DC, where they live, those are few and far between, so most go to interracial churches. My father however, is the more typical black Protestant.
    Because my mother and her family were different, I don’t think I ever associated religion with race so much. When I go to church now, I go to Catholic church (on Saturdays), or, if I can stand to wake up that early, Eastern Orthodox services.
    So when my sister rejected religion, it was hardly a big deal for her. My mother was still upset, but not in a “you’re rejecting your race” way but just that she can’t handle the idea that her daughter doesn’t believe in God.

  34. gatamala wrote:

    antihero~ this comes from my own experiences with The Church and religious folk. In addition, I have taken into account historical reasons (slavery, spirituality in W. Africa that may have carried over).

    There is a book called Holy Lockdown by Jeremiah Camara that I’ve been meaning to check out.

  35. Dirge wrote:

    The idea that the black church is presently the center of black life runs counter to the what hear about the general absence of black men in the church.
    Most AA might believe in a “higher” power but most of the folks I know don’t really do church.
    I’m guessing that this is a generational difference and married people may do church more than singles. Just some thoughts.

  36. veebot wrote:

    I was raised catholic, in the west and nigeria. I havent believed in god since i wa 14. After a stint of being born again in nigeria i realized they were crazy and unreasonble. It was them or hell.

    I said it out loud to my husband at 32.

    Being a nigerian, I dont think i’d live it down. ever. Its holding nigeria back. The head of a church in Nigeria just bought himself a private jet. Meanwhile their NJ branch is trying to find money to build a childrens center.

    I’d would go with buddhism but i just dont know how to explain that people. They’d just say i was worshipping the devil

  37. deb wrote:

    If I had to chose a label I would say I’m an Apatheist. :)

    After all, faith–or lack off–is very personal and needn’t be a public affair.

    Word. Now if only people would stop with the religious email forwards. And quit telling me to “have a blessed day.”

  38. Mark wrote:

    Atheism and agnosticism are the same thing – the church just tries to cover it up.

    Atheism is NOT “I believe god doesn’t exist”. Atheism is just “I don’t believe he does exist”. Those two statements are very different things.

    An athiest is anyone who is not a theist – in other words, anyone who doesn’t whole-heartedly believe a theistic or personal god exists. An atheist is anyone who is NOT a theist. So all agnostics are atheists.

    All atheists are not agnostics, however. Agnostics are those who simply believe we will not know if god exists or not. By that definition, they are not theists, and are thus atheists. But some atheists don’t open themselves to the POSSIBILITY that “a” god exists.

    I find hard-minded atheism just as bad as religion. No one can prove or disprove the existence of “a” god. There’s plenty of evidence against modern day “human-constructed” religions like Christianity and Judaism and Hinduism and Islam. But no evidence exists which says that a deistic type god or a clockwork god does not exist.

    I’m an atheist in the sense that I will not believe until I have evidence. Faith is over-rated. How can I take something seriously if I have no solid evidence of its existence? I’ve looked into every single pro-god argument I could find. Everyone of them was logically flawed, depended on emotional appeal, or was scientifically laughable. God runs on faith and faith alone.

    In terms of my family – my mother and my father are agnostic atheists. My mother is a bit spiritual (but hates religion), and my grandmother is very strongly attached to chinese folk-beliefs (to the extent that she calls western medicine a fraud and won’t go see a doctor). My sister is a christian, but one of those new age christians who don’t tend to think about how the bible conflicts with modern day science. My brother…… never says anything about it, but he seems sceptical of the chuch and doesn’t like the Pope.

  39. Urchin Wilde wrote:

    I’m a Black Atheist who lives in Macon, Georgia and I’m not ashamed of it one bit. Everyone that knows me knows I am and I always figured if anyone has a problem with it they can either 1) ask me why, 2) get over it, or 3) leave. I haven’t had anyone do 3 yet. I also must note that everyone else in my family is a Christian, a Muslim, or in my brother’s case Jewish.

    To Mark: I’d have to say that if you follow the logic that “nobody can disprove gods” then I must ask this question: do you believe in faeries? How about aliens, dragons, pookas, brownies, Bigfoot, banshees, or mermaids? Nobody ever disproved those either. Hell some of those creatures are said to be able to turn invisible and have other supernatural powers that gods possess. Do you give credence to those that say they saw faeries?

    To say you don’t believe in them would be just as wrong as saying you don’t believe in gods, using your logic.

    I would tell him to tell them and let the chips fall where they may. The people who really care about him will still be there for him and if they aren’t then the guy shouldn’t worry about it.

    I have a lot more to say on the subject but don’t think anyone would want to hear it.

  40. Ecce Homo wrote:

    “I’d have to say that if you follow the logic that “nobody can disprove gods” then I must ask this question: do you believe in faeries? How about aliens, dragons, pookas, brownies, Bigfoot, banshees, or mermaids? Nobody ever disproved those either. Hell some of those creatures are said to be able to turn invisible and have other supernatural powers that gods possess. Do you give credence to those that say they saw faeries?”

    Thank you for saying that Urchin Wilde! What you wrote here plays through my mind every time I hear an atheist being chastised for either not believing in gods or being open to the possibility because these so called divine beings can’t be disproved. A whole world of things can’t technically be disproved, yet no one feels the need to call him or herself an a-Loch Ness Monster-ist or an a-unicornist to demonstrate how open minded they are for instance. I am open to evidence and reason and logic. As the old joke goes, if you’re any more “open” than that your brains are likely to fall out.

    Back to the subject, I am an African American male who is also an atheist. My father is a pastor and I came from a long line of pastors on my mother’s side. I’m “out” to my immediate family but not so much with my extended family. My mother’s fervently hopes that I return to the fold before it is everlastingly too late. I know because she tells me this frequently. As one of the other commenter’s states, I just grin and bear it these days. What else is there?

    I wish Church Going Agnostic the best of luck in dealing with his family and the community. Sounds like he’s going to need it!

  41. Mixedjewgirl wrote:

    While I’m not atheist or agnostic, I am black and Jewish. I have left organized black life because I found both extreme Christian religiosity and anti-semtism in Black organizations. I have even lost jobs over this.

    I have also found that most of black culture revolves around Christianity, and if you aren’t Christian, you jeopardize your relationship with the larger black community. The assumed Christianity component to black culture is irritating. If I have to go to one more black event where they have a minister praying “In Jesus name” I’m going to hurl. If you’re going to be about black unity include everyone.

    My brother and I are both practicing Jews, while my sister is a Jewish atheist. She has found that her belief system is embraced by fellow Jews. I accept atheists very well because the Jewish community has so many of them.

    My only caveat with atheism is the tendency of some atheists to be just as dogmatic as their religious counterparts. Wishing the entire world to be atheist is no different than wanting to make the entire world Christian. As a religious person, I can learn from atheists and vice versa. Please don’t allow your oppression to turn you into the bigots against all religious people. You can learn from diversity too.

    My advice to the black atheists is to come out of the closet. They really need to grow up.

  42. 9jah wrote:

    Mixedjewgirl:

    I think it is an unfair and overly broad characterization to say “organized black life” involves extreme christian religiosity and anti-semitism. I don’t think in any black professional groups I have ever discussed religion or heard an offhand remark that could be construed as antisemitic. Naturally, if you find yourself in a christian organization, you can expect to hear about christianity.

    Same to say that most of “black culture” revolves around christianity. Black RELIGIOUS culture may revolve around christianity but if you think not being involved in this culture jeopardizes your relationship with the larger black community, you need to seek out more black people.

    I also don’t understand why you would be so offended by “in Jesus name” at a black event. Being black in America has historically meant having an association with the Black Church. For these people, this is their preference and no one should quarrel with it. The issue is when their preference is paired with bigotry for anyone who does not have the same preference. It is somewhat akin to someone complaining about references to judaism in a jewish forum. You endorse diversity but don’t come of as very accomodating in this respect IMHO.

    Re being AA and atheist, I think as always when we discuss race, esp. as concerns black folks, everyone confuses generational and other issues with race lumping them as one and the same. I go to church and subscribe to the christian faith. Still, outside of my church specific associations, christianity does not come up in any other facet of my life that involves AAs. To be sure, I also find certain practices of church folks I know to be a little overstated but I know these to be quirks mainly of the older generation that they hold onto simply because that is what older people do.

    I believe that for any AA atheist who decides to tell his family friends, while there will certainly be negative reactions from some, there will be others who will be embracing and some who just will not care. If all of your relationships have been fashioned around the church, obviously you need to develop different relatiohships with those you share more in common with.

  43. allheavens wrote:

    I am 56, Black, female, raised Southern Baptist in the Bible Belt. I believe but do not attend church.

    I do not like my religion organized. I find most organized religions in America to be regressive but I find atheists too suffer from the affects of their own brand of dogmata.

    I could care less if you are Baptist, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish or an Intergalactic Emoist. It is what you do in your life not what religion you practice that matters.

  44. Mixedjewgirl wrote:

    9jah,

    Not everyone who is black is a Christian. Therefore, if you’re going to have an event that is supposed to be welcoming to “all blacks” and promote black unity it should encompass the diversity within the community. Similar to the way the larger society makes accommodations for racial groups, we need to make accommodations for religious and gender/orientation diversity.

    It’s hypocritical to ask the racial majority to make concessions for us when we refuse to do so for diverse members within the race.

    President Barack Obama’s Inaugural address is an example that can easily be followed. Although he has his own beliefs, he made sure to acknowledge other faiths or those who don’t follow one. It didn’t ruin the event. It wouldn’t kill organizers for major black events to do the same. Who knows, it could actually inspire real black unity?

    As for black anti-semitism, it isn’t as prevalent as the ADL thinks it is, but it is certainly a salient dilemma. I had to block 3 black organizations from bringing an infamous anti-semitic speaker on campus. Of course, I caught hell, but I did the right thing. I wonder if they would have felt if a Jewish organization tried to bring a ferociously racist speaker to campus. Heck, my boss tried to put me under review for ” observing Shabbat with white people”which she knew about at hiring time. BTW, when I made a complaint, they swept it under the rug. What was done was illegal.

    My question to you is, why do you think only black Christians are part of the community that matter? When you say that praying to Jesus is the preference of some (which I’m okay with) then you have to include the entire group.

    What bothers me the most about your response is the idea that the rest of us just have to put up with the status quo without concessions for our needs. Apparently, because we’re not Christians, we don’t matter.

    I guess “black people” only means Christians.

  45. Adrianna wrote:

    I am a 24 year old black atheist and people seems to think that it’s all a joke and that I’ll soon join church and praise God. I have stopped speaking with one of my sisters ,because I feel that I’m always being judged based on her religious beliefs, The tv shows , movies I watch are sinful, the Harry Potter books that i want to share with my younger 8 year old sister is going to lead her to the devil . Some of my religious friend won’t take my change of beliefs seriously too. They thinks it’s about their religion when for me I just stopped believing in a god period. Now i feel free and unburdened. Plus I really was getting tired of all the relatives telling me i was going to hell,because i refuse to blindly follow all the “adult in my life were telling me to do. As for advice for LW I say lie I really doubt that his conservative Christian wife and fellow church member gets it.
    But on the other end he is going to be so miserable at those church services.

  46. Yetunde wrote:

    As a Nigerian American female, I definitely got excited when I saw the title of this article. Despite being raised in the church and attending Christian school for eight years, I have long identified myself as an atheist. Atheist Nigerian is pretty much an oxymoron; 90% of Nigeria is either Christian or Muslim and the black community in the U.S. isn’t much different. It’s really difficult when your views separate you from your people – especially when you’ve struggled with identity issues your entire life as a result of being an American citizen with Nigerian parents.