Quoted: Producer Will Packer on ‘Obsessed’ and overcoming Hollywood bias
By Special Correspondent Arturo R. García
In the wake of that disturbing article in Fade In magazine, there’s at least one black producer out there with a film opening this weekend, and some of the objections Will Packer says he faced early in his career parallel those we heard about in the Fade In piece: that films featuring African-Americans were “niche films” for “a niche audience.”
“It’s tough to get any film made – black, brown, it doesn’t matter. It’s definitely still tough as African-American film makers because they (traditional Hollywood studios) don’t make as many african-american themed films as they do other films, so you’ve got smaller windows of opportunity. But it’s certainly different than it was 20 years ago.”
Packer’s latest film, Obsessed, features a relative host of “niche” story points: Not only are two of the three leads – Idris Elba and a non-singing Beyonce Knowles – POCs, but there’s an interracial aspect to the Fatal Attraction-ish scenario presented, involving Elba’s character and a temp played by Ali Larter. Packer says there was always an interracial factor in the story, but only as a backdrop.
“I think that audiences are a lot more sophisticated now,” Packer says. “You certainly can portray inter-racial relationships but you have to do it in a realistic way. In our film, it’s not about race – it’s interesting that the husband happens to be black, but it’s nothing that we feel the need to make any more provocative or to otherwise single out that fact.”
Packer says his successful film, 2007’s Stomp The Yard, also had to fight the “niche” argument.“Nobody saw Stomp The Yard coming,” Packer says. “But we tapped into an audience that was a cross-section of dance-movie fans and African-American audiences who knew about college life, and we managed not only to open No. 1 at the box office, but to hold the No. 1 spot for another week. Suddenly people in Hollywood were trying to call us, and asking, ‘What do you mean, they don’t have agents?’.”
The film went on to gross $75 million worldwide.Packer says the “nobody saw us coming” thing started as soon as he and director Rob Hardy founded Rainforest Productions and made their first film, Trois, in 2000.“We didn’t have a film school. We didn’t have money. We didn’t have connections. We didn’t have long-standing Hollywood relationships,” Packer says.
“I wanted to start a film production company. My partner wanted to be the next Spike Lee. We moved to Atlanta because we felt that was a market where we could be a big fish in a small pond. We made Trois, and nobody in Hollywood cared. We literally drove city-to-city and handed out flyers, shook hands, kissed babies and we convinced 19 theatre owners to run our movie for one weekend. Then we went out and hustled, got the word out. That film made over $1 million dollars.”
Despite the success he’s enjoyed in producing films geared toward audiences of color, Packer says things are still very difficult. “People don’t have any single viable studio catering to that audience,” he says. And how far off is that studio?
“Distribution is still kind of the final frontier, and that’s still very difficult,” Packer says. “If African-American audiences and mainstream audiences respond to that kind of material, then it’ll happen.”
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Fiqah wrote:
SIGH.
Mr. Packer, congratulations on getting your foot in the door and wedging it there. That is not an easy task for filmmakers of color in Hollywood. So, credit where it’s due.
::: applauds like the audience when Condoleeza Rice got that NAACP Image award :::
Having said all that, when I read the plot/story line behind “Obsessed” my eyes rolled so far back in my head I could see my damn brains. Sistagurl-Up-In-Arms movies – ESPECIALLY about interracial relationships/affairs/whatever the hell – is so tired that I wish someone would just put the idea to bed already. Just sayin’.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 9:22 am ¶
R. Prince wrote:
@ Fiquah, agreed…. although a woman has the right to be angry with a woman who’s trying to ruin her marriage, the trailer comes off a little angry bitter black woman-ish against pretty blonde white girl.. just my opinion.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 10:11 am ¶
R. Prince wrote:
sorry, * Fiqah
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 10:11 am ¶
Eva wrote:
I think the suits in Hollyweird don’t get exactly who the moviegoing audience is. They also don’t realize that POC and people over the age of 40 own DVD players.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 10:19 am ¶
Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:
I’m still going to see OBSESSED this weekend. I don’t care what you people say. Go out and support a black filmmaker, a “niche” movie.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 10:36 am ¶
The Sepia Screen wrote:
I’m torn about seeing it. I just don’t think it’s going to be that good. I may support it in its DVD after-life.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:03 am ¶
jetessence wrote:
Here’s the conundrum:
I want to see black filmmakers succeed, but do I have to support crap?
I just can’t.
I also want to see more black people in non-stereotypical roles. I want to see black ACTORS get these roles–not these so-called triple threats. Maybe I’m asking for too much.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:13 am ¶
Sarah wrote:
Forget Beyonce…I’m going to the movie to see the sexy Idris Elba…now that is one fine, handsome man, lol.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:27 am ¶
Sarah wrote:
Oh and I also believe in supporting black film, especially when fine black men are involved.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:28 am ¶
ghettoManga wrote:
if there was any justice, Idris Elba would be a huge star. the only young actor who impresses me more is Ewitel Ejiofor (Red Belt, Four Brothers, Children of Men, Serenity).
i never saw stomp the yard, so this director’s resume means little to me, but i will definitely try this movie on. my expectations are not very high (Beyonce? ugh).
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:41 am ¶
Juanita Crider wrote:
Sepia….
I am feelin just about the same as you.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:45 am ¶
Michelle wrote:
I’m torn as well.
There are too many good Black actresses out there and for them to hire Beyonce is kinda playing into many of the racist ideas that persist about Black women.
Plus, I am a little wary of continuing to support Beyonce as a Black actress because I don’t want people to think that we as Black people aren’t as capable as our White /Asian/Latino/Native American counterparts when it comes to a. acting and b. powers of discernment where acting is concerned. That is why Xzibit gets to keep acting and why Method Man and Redman had their own (short lived) sitcom.
On the other hand, the filmmakers deserve a shot. Here is an idea;
Let’s all go see Obsessed but we have to make a pact that we have to go see American Violet as well!
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:50 am ¶
danielle wrote:
It’s just “interesting” that the husband happens to be black? Seriously? No, that’s pretty critical. Without that they don’t have anything, because this fatal attraction story has been told countless times. They are relying heavily on audiences being intrigued enough by the interracial aspect of the story to justify sitting through a plot they’ve seen so many times before.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 12:12 pm ¶
Madame Zenobia wrote:
This I’ll rent.
I won’t pay good money for theater viewing of a film that looks made-for-tv.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 1:20 pm ¶
ceecee wrote:
I’m going to see Obsessed to support too and trying to drag some friends with me but the trailer is throwing people off like it did for Fiquah. I’m just hoping beyond hope that there’s more to the story than meets the eye, or rather trailer.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 1:54 pm ¶
embarcadero113 wrote:
Well, also Ali Later is a “safe” white girl choice due to her prior on-screen interracial rlshp with a Black man. I mean… she is Micah’s mama after all… So now, ironically, she may be drawn into the Black Hollywood stereotype herself.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 2:06 pm ¶
A. wrote:
Beyonce makes me want to gag.
I’ll support it, because It’s difficult to see a young PoC filmmaker doing great things in film that doesn’t involve Tyler Perry and misogyny and films that end up being a lecture on morality, but I don’t like the plot for this film, and I don’t like Beyonce all that much.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 2:10 pm ¶
wendi muse wrote:
ok a) trois was terrible…super offensive to bisexuals, lesbians, and/or hell, black women all at once. i don’t care how much money he didn’t have, he still could have done better than that
b) how can he put in the interracial element and then say it’s not about race? um, h e l l o? this film will be released in america. we code and read almost everything with race, whether we intend to or not.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 2:21 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:
Um, no thanks. I know what they’re selling…and I’m not buying it; it’s the typical bullshit story about a Black woman who is jealous of the crazy White woman (always a blond) who has come sniffing around to “steal her man” and must protect her territory at all costs. SMH.
And if it’s successful, we can look forward to MORE crap like this.
Personally, I’m embarrassed for Beyonce and Ali Larter.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 2:29 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
I can’t get behind going to see a movie I won’t like – just cuz a black person made it. Maybe I’m too “melting pot”.
I just had an argument at work yesterday with a dude who was saying that Allison on Idol is going to stay in it cuz all the Latin@ people are voting for her. Because she’s latin. And then he compared it to Obama winning. And then my brain cried.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 2:36 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:
I’m happy for him for getting his film made. The plot looks…unpleasant. Since it doesn’t look like there’s going to be a black man in drag and everyone-needs-to-turn-to-God ending I can say it looks better than Tyler Perry’s fare. The plot + B’s acting is too much for me to endure so I won’t be seeing it.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 3:01 pm ¶
John Jihoon Chang wrote:
@R.Prince – I dunno, when I saw the trailer, the character Ali Larter portrays comes across as totally evil (which really detracts from “pretty”) and Beyonce’s character as justifiably pissed. Of course, perhaps since I haven’t encountered the “angry bitter black woman” stereotype, I just don’t read it the same either.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 3:50 pm ¶
Emily wrote:
I don’t plan to see the movie, it’s not really my type of movie, but I must say I haven’t really had the sense of it being marketed as a “niche” African-American movie. Whereas Stomp the Yard, which I did see, I did feel was marketed/presented that way. I think having one of the main characters be white does make a difference in the image that the movie either gets or is given (I don’t know how much is intentional marketing and how much is my own biases and/or absorbtion of societal biases).
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 3:51 pm ¶
Asada wrote:
@ Fiquah- I’m sure almost every PoC is jaded this way. I am tired of Dance movies and African Americans. I’m scared there is almost nothing we can star in that’s new and “acceptable”.
OBSESSED looks cool though, I’m not very aware of this topic covered in movies. Plus, if it helps, the white lady is crazy. THey make it clear she is obsessed with this man because she is mentally unbalanced. That’s not a good or bad thing. I fear it may not do so well despite Beyonce’s star power, ppl are convinced she cannot act.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 3:58 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
but, you know, even if its not every black moviegoers cup of tea, Beyonce Knowles fans are still going to turn out for this movie. her fanbase cuts across color lines. trois wasn’t my style either, but he made a million dollars from it anyway, without my little money.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 4:37 pm ¶
Tony wrote:
Wow, another movie that uses a mixed relationship as a bad thing that only causes trouble.
I don’t care if the directors black or not, I’m sick of seeing “the evils of miscegenation’ movies.
I’ll lay my cards on the table, I’m mixed myself.
I don’t support any director who is only capitalizing on stereotypes about people like me or my parents.
And of course, the biggest sin.
Even taking the whole “Evil white women out to wreck black families” angle out of the movie, it looks AWFUL.
It looks like some horrid bargain bin straight-to-DVD crapfest that is only getting in theaters due to having a famous singer as the star.
I don’t pay to see movies I think will be crap.
Especially not crap with a strong bigoted undertone.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 7:20 pm ¶
Ada wrote:
We really don’t need another black moviemaker vilifying black women. But we all start somewhere. Hattie McDaniel led to Denzel Washington. I guess eventually we’ll see movies that offer more varied view of black people.
Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 11:18 pm ¶
Miles Ellison wrote:
There is no shortage of people who will watch a clothes-ripping catfight between two women. Add the black/white element and the audience increases. Add the black man/white woman element and the audience (and the hate mail) will increase exponentially. All of this obscures the fact that this is a black version of Fatal Attraction. At least there isn’t a black man in a fat suit resurrecting the mammy stereotype for a new generation. Baby steps.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 12:04 am ¶
Anony. wrote:
Obsessed it going to be very successful. It’s being predicted to take in 27 million, and considering this is a low budget film that’s quite impressive. In fact the 27 million is a record for this April weekend. Who knows if the predictions will be accurate though.
By the way I did see the film. It was campy fun. They never address race, the movie isn’t sophisticated or smart enough. It’s a dumb thriller that’s really fun. I personally enjoyed it, but I knew what to expect. Don’t go in expecting a really intelligent psychological thriller, because you will be sorely disappointed.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 4:36 am ¶
RCHOUDH wrote:
To the question whether POC should support POC made products even if they be crappy, I just have to say that I personally would not do it, especially if the POC made product was simply upholding the same stereotypes we see in mainstream media.
As for this movie I wonder why they have to make another IR relationship between a lead black male character and lead white female one so fraught with tension and drama. This reminds me of Will Smith’s Hancock where the relationship with the white woman was shown to be too “troubling” for the black man.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 5:26 am ¶
GeeLennox wrote:
No. Just no. I will never pay to see a “don’t let that white girl take your man” movie.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 10:39 am ¶
bdsista wrote:
Well we don’t want to talk about it, but there are a whole lot of people who feel that Nicole Brown simpson was an evil white woman who wrecked OJs marriage to his black wife. My Mother has finally gotten over Harry Belafonte leaving his accomplished black wife for a showgirl (current longtime wife Julie) but did tell me in the 1950’s Black women were devastated by his action, especially when his first wife was very highly educated in a time when college and professional jobs were limited.
I am going to see to support black films and I like Beyonce. I think she is very talented even if she is not the most articulate sister in the world. If this is a remake of Fatal Attraction, it will have the other woman be crazy. Its also kinda nice to have a man who wants to be with his wife and doesn’t reject her for the uber fabo blonde. And, I heard Beyonce did not have a stunt double for the fight scenes.
Its real nice outside this weekend in MD, I predict it will be packed. I hope BroMan makes a killing!
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 11:52 am ¶
Powerpuffgirl wrote:
The problem with supporting a movie at the dvd stage is that a film’s “success” by Hollywood standards is judged heavily on its performance during opening weekend at the box office.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 12:40 pm ¶
Idrisforever wrote:
I went to dinner with a 50 something , mixed (he’s white, she’s Mexican-American) Republican couple last night who had just come back from seeing this movie and liked it. It really didn’t have anything to do with the races of the character, they just both like “revenge” stories. I don’t know how that fits into all of this but I hope the movie does well, even though I doubt I’ll see it anywhere but on cable.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 2:42 pm ¶
Mike wrote:
Im passing on it because the movie just looks boring, never mind the fact that the trailer basically played the whole thing out for you.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 3:16 pm ¶
Mike wrote:
But it is nice to have a movie out there different from the usual “niche” movies. And the critics may say what they will about Beyonce but she has the juice to get the type of movies and roles out there we dont normally see for black people let alone black woman. I can appreciate that.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 3:23 pm ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:
Beyonce IMHO is a great musical entertainer. Terrible actress. I wouldn’t pay to see this movie for that reason.
And unless there’s some twist we don’t know about it looks rather contrived and predictable.
I personally felt the interracial element had to have been added 1) to draw an even larger cross section of audience than Beyonce’s fan base alone would bring
2) and in hopes that the racial undercurrents would be enough to lure a more mature segment of black women who would “relate”.
Except those like me who felt the whole notion seemed like more of a reinforcement of the white feminine ideal i.e. that a blond white woman is a black woman’s worst nightmare and biggest threat in a relationship with a black man EVEN IF SHE IS AS HOT AS BEYONCE!
That annoyed me.
Would they have done this movie with a white couple and Halle Berry or Angela Bassett as the crazy temp? Unlikely, because they know there’s a section of the audience who wouldn’t 1)buy into that notion and 2) want to see it onscreen.
I wish I didn’t see it that way, though. But I do.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 5:46 pm ¶
Megan wrote:
Sigh. The movie previews make me think that this is just another “Angry Black Woman” movie. They could have at least mixed it up and made Ali Larter (i think thats the white woman’s name?) a minority. Why o why did they have to play up the historically stereotypical and controversial feud between Black women and White women stealing Black men? But the sad part is that people are going to see it. Black people. I live in Prince George’s County (predominately Black county in MD) and I guarantee that the Magic Johnson theatre was packed when it came out! I won’t even rent this one.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 6:43 pm ¶
blip wrote:
Oh dear. I hate, hate hate to admit this. Went to see the film and I LOVED IT! It was a campy throwback to the Fatal Attraction/Dynasty/Hand that Rocks the Cradle 80s era where catfights ruled. Idris Elba was yummy to look at, Ali Larter was sufficiently psycho, and Beyonce surprisingly was less obnoxious in this film than all her previous films. Plus, her enunciation provided lots and lots of unintended laughs. Obsessed is officially my guilty pleasure of the year. Now I need to go see it with a chatty black audience to get an extra dose of laughs.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 10:46 pm ¶
Kjen wrote:
I might get to see the movie this afternoon. From all the reviews, I’m expecting to walk in and enjoy a dumb, campy movie, so I’m making sure to go with a group of people who I know will have interesting commentary during the movie. LOL
N.E. Way,
I got annoyed from reading so many comments bemoaning how the role is JUST another “Angry Black Woman” role. The movie is set up for maximum sympathy for Beyonce’s character so the other woman is also suppose to threaten her children before B. physically whips her behind. So, even after all that, she isn’t suppose to be “angry”? Would we have preferred if she wrote a very firmly worded note explaining her outrage? Sometimes, I think people are so fearful of stereotypes that they over compensate.
Full Disclosure: Speaking as someone who has spent a lifetime swallowing her anger, wondering was it really okay to get “upset” about situations and is working to be able to express myself, yes, even when I’m angry about something, sometimes it seems as if the banner of “Angry Black Woman” is just waved around to make them seem irrational and unreasonable – to not have to listen to them. These same women are still rational, sensible human beings. The fact that they are angry does not erase any of their other qualities.
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 11:43 am ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:
@ Kjen I think it’s the context and the racial juxtaposition of characters that has people feeling that way. Sure, ANY woman in that position would be angry. No one is saying she doesn’t –or a woman going throught that– doesnt have a right to be angry.
However in pop culture the idea of a pissed of black woman going ballistic because some “white bitch” is going after her man has become a bit cliche’. I tend to judge how firmly a stereotype has been ingrained quite unscientifically.
However when my 20-something college educated suburban white friends (male and female) AUTOMATICALLY assume I am going to kick ass and set a car on fire everytime I see a black man with a white woman (despite the fact my boyfriend is white) I know this idea has been put out there in the mainstream far too often. Not to mention the fact I heard two white girls in the mall saying about this film AND I QUOTE ” we all know Beyonce is going to win because it’s Beyonce but in the real world OF COURSE the man would want Ali Larter. He’ s a black guy!”
That’s why that crap ticks me off.
@ blip I AM SO GLAD I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO GETS LAUGHS OUT OF BEYONCE’S ENUNCIATION AND DICTION ! Hence, the reason I think she’s a terrible actress.
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 3:22 pm ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:
Guess most people didn’t care . From USA Today:
Moviegoers got a little obsessed with Beyonce Knowles this weekend, propelling her film to an easy No. 1 at the box office.
Obsessed racked up $28.5 million, according to studio estimates from tracking firm Nielsen EDI.
The debut was almost $10 million more than analysts had projected, and executives at Sony Pictures, which released Obsessed, crowed over what they see as Hollywood’s next crossover star.
“This is the first film where she didn’t perform musically,” says Rory Bruer, Sony’s head of distribution. “And what a way to start. I think she showing there isn’t much she can’t do.”
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 3:39 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:
“I want to see black filmmakers succeed, but do I have to support crap?
I just can’t.
I also want to see more black people in non-stereotypical roles. I want to see black ACTORS get these roles–not these so-called triple threats. Maybe I’m asking for too much.”
Yes, you are asking for too much. Unfortunately, so am I. Can’t do it, life is entirely too short to watch bad movies. The trailer gives me the giggles every time it comes on. If it isn’t an “crazy white woman out to steal my good (not to mention attractive and white collar) man” movie, the trailer sure makes it look that way.
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 5:24 pm ¶
Tracey wrote:
I’m not sure what a butt-kicking would do to a crazy person (them being irrational and all) that assault charges, a restraining order, and having them arrested for violating a restraining order wouldn’t. Though given the failings of the criminal system in cases involving restraining orders it might be just as effective. Though again… crazy person short on logic (avoid family to avoid pain).
Also, I am not to offended by the stereotypes because I think it just a rehashing of the same old story and the maker knows it. He probably set out to make a campy movie that people into old school soap operas will enjoy. Not to mention they get to see the black woman in the role of mild-mannered wife protecting the home front as oppose to nonexistent or a vixen.
With that said I will not go see the movie b/c I will find it bad and I don’t have the money. To all of you who have the money to see a campy bad film at between 10-12 dollars to support a POC filmmaker, you could support a POC grad student…. just saying.
There’s a saying that goes” Gender equality will be achieved when mediocre women hold high level positions.” I think the same can be said of race. A POC filmmaker raking in money for a mediocre film. So maybe I will go see this….at the discount theater.
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 6:46 pm ¶
Content Black Woman wrote:
The controversy behind the movie is kicking up. Feel free to check out the post over at:
http://whyblackwomenareangry.blogspot.com/2009/04/obsessed-real-reason-this-movie-is.html
and
[Mod Note - We do not link to those kinds of sites, nor support them with page views or traffic, nor invite their base to come over here. Please keep that in mind for future link submissions. - LDP]
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 8:38 pm ¶
Queen B wrote:
I saw Obseesed and I enjoyed it. I did not really think about the racial dynamics until afterwards. Some people think that the movie is stereotypical but I disagree. The media made a big deal about the fact that Beyonce and Ali Larter got into a cat fight but that did not happen until the last five minutes of the movie and it only occurred because the stalker would not leave the husband character alone.
I guess the real issue for me is that while I am happy for Beyonce’s success, where are the roles for the other talented black actresses out there. For some reason Beyonce and Halle Berry have risen to the top but the other black actresses deserve a shot too.
I remember Will Smith stating that two black leads in a film equal a black movie which is in Hitch latina actress Eva Mendes was cast as the love interest.
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 12:56 am ¶
Idrisforever wrote:
The backlash by white reviewers against this movie makes me want to see it in the theater.
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 12:12 pm ¶
deb wrote:
Pass.
I’ll watch “Fatal Attraction” with the volume off and Beyonce’s “Crazy in Love” playing (in continous loop) in the background.
Maybe I’ll catch it when it runs on HBO, like, next week?
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 1:26 pm ¶
Winn wrote:
@ blip I AM SO GLAD I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO GETS LAUGHS OUT OF BEYONCE’S ENUNCIATION AND DICTION ! Hence, the reason I think she’s a terrible actress.
blip and c.n. edaw – Thank you! Beyonce’s mumbly speech patterns, poor diction and unclear enunciation set my teeth on edge. She exemplifies for me the problem with our bottom-line drive for dollars at the expense of talent and coherence. Beyonce will get butts in seats; meanwhile Viola Davis waits for her next role. Angela Bassett is presenting awards to Earth, Wind and Fire on the TV Land awards, ushering out the last season of ER, and doing something I never thought I’d say, starring in Tyler Perry movies (gag), instead of racking up her fifth of sixth Oscar nomination. I mentioned this in the previous thread about discrimination in Hollywood, but this is why I chose to concentrate on stage work rather than film. There are so many more opportunities for strong, substantive, demanding roles on stage for female actors of color, the kind Beyonce could only dream of. But the huge opening weekend of “Obsessed” will guarantee that we will be subjected to more of her dropped consonants and broad Houston accent in the future. Goddess, give me strength…
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 2:21 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:
WARNING: Tangent/riff ahead (sorry, Latoya)
RE: That ole funny-talkin’ Beyonce cain’t talk right, y’all!
Beyonce has a pronounced Southern accent. It actually seems to be a mix of accents one hears in Texas as well as Louisiana. Now, those are two totally different accents that the untrained (or otherwise prejudiced) ear would be unable to distinguish, but seeing as how a lot of her immediate family originally hails from Louisiana, it makes sense. In other words, Beyonce speaks like what she is: a Texan, with Louisianian roots. What some people might call a “drawl” others call “word-slurring” and poor enunciation. I’m not sure why that is, but I do have some theories.
As someone who grew up in the South, the generally accepted mockery of the “backwards” Southern accent burns my muffins. It’s usually part-and-parcel of a whole host of other perceptions of Southerners. Northeastern conceit about liberalism, social progressiveness, intelligence, and tolerance needs its imaginary Southern counterpart and additive inverse. I mean, the whole “Southern hick” meme is a comedic institution; I’ve found that otherwise intelligent and sensitive people where I live (New York City) rarely even question it, or stop themselves from doing their own little rendition of it in my presence.
Finally, while I don’t like to play the You-Done-Forgot- Where-You-Came-From Siddity Card, I kinda have to go there. I’ve noticed that a LOT of Black Americans who I have encountered in the Northeast – many of whom are no more than a generation or so removed from the American South themselves – appear to be either seriously disconnected from or deeply, deeply ashamed of their regional roots. Not saying that’s necessarily the case here, just reporting an observation.
Now, I’m not a fan of Beyonce’s myself. Music, acting, continued blonding/whitening, whatever the hell. But to deride her because of her accent, when there are so many other things I could poke fun at, would just be a waste of my wit. Once your patterns of speech are set it is extrenly difficult to change your accent. And, just like everyone has a “race,” everyone has an accent…it’s just that SOME accents are considered normative.
Regional bigotry isn’t nearly as damaging as racism, but it IS still bigotry. Y’all might wanna table it.
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 5:49 pm ¶
Michelle wrote:
Winn,
At this moment, every fiber of my being resonates with love for you and your post!
Co-sign!
I am astonished that Obsessed in not only number one, but that people (critics, mind you, Rolling Stone Mag, mind you) are saying that Beyonce’s acting actually helps to save the movie. and that the script is beneath her level of talent. WTF!
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 7:07 pm ¶
Queenb727 wrote:
I’m late to the party but I wanted to cosign Fiqah. Beyonce gets on my last nerve. But if she had a Boston accent and dropped her “R”s no one would be talking about her diction. No one here makes fun of Selma Heyak’s accent when she does a movie. That’s considered sexy. You can understand her the same as you can understand Beyonce. So other than a bias against southern accents what’s the problem?
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 11:45 am ¶
Winn wrote:
@Fiqah,
I heart you and virtually everything you post, so no offense meant. But I am a native Texan, born and raised in East Texas. I live in Dallas and have most of my adult life. If I chose, and I sometimes do, I could have an accent thicker than Beyonce’s by a mile. But not when I’m working. Actors can most certainly change their accents, and routinely do. If a role calls for a Southern drawl, fine. But Beyonce is incapable of doing anything else, because she has no training or stagecraft, the foundations of a strong and versatile actor. I am by no means ashamed of where I come from. But I also know that a strong regional accent can immediately take an audience out of the story and interfere with their identification with a character, and when your accent is the most prominent thing about your work, you are doing a disservice to the craft and your character. Considering Beyonce has thus far not shown the capability of crafting accents appropriate for her characters and distinct from her own, perhaps casting directors ought to table her in favor of trained actors.
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 4:27 pm ¶
Michelle wrote:
Queenb727 and Fiquah,
Both of you are SADLY, SADLY mistaken.
One of the basic lessons of acting (surprise, acting is a craft, like say golf or driving) is that an actor must speak in the the way the character would speak.
And, most actors learn that there is a standard American accent that you use when the character is not from a specific place. So, basically, if EVERYONE else in the movie speaks one way, as an ACTOR you should be able to sound like EVERYONE else, because presumably you are all from the same place.
Fiquah, you stated,
Once your patterns of speech are set it is extrenly difficult to change your accent.
Do you know that almost every actor goes through a significant amount of work to neutralize the way that they speak, so that they can adopt very specific patterns and accents for different characters. So, you can change the way you speak and as an actor it is a fundamental part of your job.
You also said, And, just like everyone has a “race,” everyone has an accent…it’s just that SOME accents are considered normative.
Well, yes and no. There are speech professionals and theater artists who have come up with Standard American diction, in an effort to give actors access to all kinds of accents. The whole point is that SA diction is NOT and accent. Rather it is a neutral point that is not race or region specific.
Oh, and btw, Beyonce sounds the same in every movie. The same Houston/Louisiana accent that she has in life, she has in every movie. That is simply inappropriate, if you are going by basic rules of movie making and acting. I think that is why people were clowning her accent.
Oh and Salma Hayek…almost every character is supposed to be from Mexico (i.e. Fools Rush In, Frida) or Puerto Rico (30 Rock). The accent is explained. And English is not her first language. Apples and oranges in my opinion.
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 4:52 pm ¶
Winn wrote:
Amen, Michelle! And btw, with respect to the ability to change one’s accent: Beyonce’s co-star Idris Elba is British. Born and bred in East London. I hardly think that’s a British accent he’s employing in “Obsessed”, and if he had been unable to alter his accent, there would have been some ’splainin to do with relation to his character. His accent on “The Wire” is totally different than his accent for his upcoming role on “The Office”, which is completely different from the African accent he employs on the premiere episode of “The No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency”. But unlike his co-star, he’s a trained actor. I hope Beyonce learns something from him if she’s going to insist upon appearing on our movie screens.
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 7:01 pm ¶
blip wrote:
Thank you Michelle. I was waiting for someone to talk some sense. No one is criticizing Beyonce for having a Southern accent. We’re criticizing her because she’s a terrible actress who can’t seem to put it away.
And I really take offense to anyone who would assume anyone here was a regional bigot, when, quite frankly EVERY single black woman in film seems to be from the south and has a southern accent. I can assure you all black women don’t have southern accents. “Regional bigotry” is failing to acknowledge the existence of black women from other parts of the country and world. When was the last time you heard a black woman with an authentic Caribbean-American accent in a film? Or black british? Nigerian?Brazilian?
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 7:09 pm ¶
Fiqah wrote:
@R. Prince, Queenb727: Thanks very much for the co-signs and stuff.
@Winn: No worries, no offense taken at all. And thank you for further clarifying your position. Several Texans I’m fond of out here in the real world have accents that range from light to noticeable, and not one of them sounds quite like Beyonce – so you and I can definitely agree on that. I also agree with you and other posters who have countered that she’s just not a very good actor. She can’t even do comedy! Accent aside, her comedic timing in (LORD…) “Austin Powers: Goldmember” was just damn turrible. Watching that child try to be funny was like watching myself try to dance: it hurt me and everybody watching.
@Michelle: A few points.
1. I’m well aware that acting is a craft, thankyouverymuch. I’m also aware that an accomplished actor, with some mastery of their craft, is able to produce a reasonable fascimile of whatever accent is required for their parts. That’s why it’s called “acting.”
2. Regarding the “standard American accent”: maybe I should have made it clearer in my comment that this whole concept is what I find to be inherently problematic. The idea that there IS a standard American accent (or “FLAT-cent”, as I call it) feeds into a very specific hegemonic ideal. And it’s a false ideal, because the flat-cent is still an accent. It just doesn’t “bother” people. Which, of course, begs the question, WHY do certain accents “bother” people? Really, that’s a post in and of itself. I strongly encourage you to Google “Beyonce’s accent” and see what other folks on other sites are saying about it. Maybe that whole regional bigotry and collective cultural shame thing I talked about will have more resonance if you do.
3. As far as being unable to shed her accent no matter who she plays, Beyonce is hardly alone there. Case in point: native Arkansian Billy Bob Thornton. In “Slingblade”, “Monster’s Ball” and yes, even “Love, Actually” he played characters that were ostensibly Southern. In “Bad Santa,” however, he played a low-life con man who was not from any specified region. But the Southern accent was there. Why? Well, because it didn’t make his character less “believable.” And I am compelled to ask WHY THAT IS. That film garnered critical acclaim and a Golden Globe nomination. Nobody appeared to be distracted from it by Thorton’s accent. Just sayin’.
4. A related aside -just about every major motion picture that is released in this country uses the same flat-cented voice-over actor in the previews.
5. Let’s not conflate Beyonce’s accent with her crappy acting and her apparent dim-wittedness. To do so is fucked up. Just recognize it, mkay? Thanks.
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 8:30 pm ¶
Hibbs4Prez wrote:
Its a shame that the most recent black filmmakers who are very savvy on the business end of getting their films made, distributed and seen also happen to be typically short on talent when it comes to storytelling and actual filmmaking. Some of these cats would be great working a desk at a major studio or even a small production company if given a cahnce. But as “artists” they are lacking no matter how much money their product makes.
Posted 28 Apr 2009 at 9:07 pm ¶
Michelle wrote:
Fiquah (especially) and everyone else,
I would like to apologize to you for my sarcastic and snarky remark that acting is a craft. It was unnecessary and does not further the dialogue. I take full responsibility for how you must have read my comment.
I would like to agree with you that the way Beyonce speaks in life is not evidence of her lack of intelligence.
I would like to respectfully disagree that her accent is NOT evidence of her poor acting skills. In fact, it is proof positive of her poor acting. It is basic to every actor to be able to speak with an accent that is believable for the character. Can’t speak to the Billy Bob issue, however, check out The Man who Wasn’t There and get back to me on that one.
Which brings me round to the topic at hand. Do Black audiences care about “good” acting, movie making or story telling? Why is it that Trois made so much money and was simply not a good movie? Obsessed made a killing at the box office and does that mean that now we will see an onslaught of Beyonce films? And will we as Black audiences be content with that? I think that the point is that Beyonce’s lack of craft as as actor, and the lack of artistry in many Black movies, are problematic to a very small minority of Black people. Otherwise, nobody would be watching, House of Payne or Meet the Browns.
Posted 29 Apr 2009 at 2:26 am ¶
Fiqah wrote:
@Michelle: It’s not a problem. I understand that we all get a little passionate from time to time when making our points here. And I think most of us agree that Beyonce’s acting skills leave much to be desired. I’m glad you mentioned “The Man Who Wasn’t There.” I did notice Thornton’s accent in that movie, which I think was set in California. But he’s a damn fine actor, so I never was distracted by it. Conversely, Beyonce is an awkward actor, so everything she does is going to be clumsy and (in terms of timing) off. I’m fine with critiquing her “skills” and questioning her continued appearances in film; however, I stand by my earlier assertion that the whole accent thing is tapping into something else altogether. I have no problems agreeing to disagree on that point.
I think you and other commenters raised a good question regarding some popular Black entertainment. I feel your frustration there. Shows like “House of Payne” and other Tyler Perry vehicles are tremendously popular, but like most pop culture shows and films, they’re not exactly intellect-driven. And the people green-lighting a lot of these shows and films are less interested in the quality of the product and more concerned about their bottom line. The movies fill seats, and the shows boost ratings, so hey! Dollar dollar bill, y’all. If a broader scope of Black experience was depicted across the board, this would be less irksome. But, as some of the other commenters pointed out, we just aren’t there yet.
Posted 29 Apr 2009 at 12:43 pm ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:
I’m really late to the party on this last point of contention….
and also a black woman from EAST TEXAS! A very small town in eastern Texas. Most of my family is from Houston and lots more from Louisiana. And you know what? WE ALL LAUGH AT BEYONCE AND THE WAY SHE TALKS!!!
Sorry Fiqah, but there is a difference between having an accent and poor diction. You can speak with a very pronounced accent and still enunciate words properly. Sure, some regional dialect is distinctive because of the LACK of enunciation or over pronunciation of certain sounds but that is still different from having a pronounced accent in general.
However, I agree with all the other points made about what’s required in goo acting.. and disagree that Beyonce’s problem has anything to do with her being from Texas.
Hell, Jamie Foxx, Loretta Devine (and too many other black actors to list here who have NO problems speaking in a manner that is not distracting from their craft ) are from Texas too and they don’t sound like they are having trouble stringing sentences together!
Posted 02 May 2009 at 9:26 pm ¶
Shadow And Act wrote:
I’m a little late, but thought I’d share the following link to an NPR op-ed piece that calls for an autonomous black owned and operated film production and distribution studio:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/newsandviews/2007/10/calling_for_autonomous_blackow_1.html
Posted 05 May 2009 at 10:13 pm ¶