Comments

1. Undercover Black Man wrote:

   Whew. I thought you mighta been referring to the trumpet player Don Cherry.

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 12:23 pm ¶

2. Kandeezie wrote:

   Don Cherry won’t be stopped because in Canada, we don’t have racism. ::rolling eyes::

   The white Canadian culture doesn’t like to acknowledge their racism. Racism is some disease Americans have. But Canadians? Nope. We all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

   Until they can deal with the issues they have against immigrants, even the ones that look EXACTLY like them, we won’t hear a public outcry. Don Cherry can say the same words as hardcore racists (which would make him ___) and still be called “opinionated”.

   I’m surprised he’s calling people cowards when so much of our culture tells us to cower and not face the tough issues. Hummm.

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 12:53 pm ¶

3. amandaw wrote:

   I’m a Penguins fan, and of course the rivalry b/w Ovechkin and Malkin/Crosby is heated, but I’ve always liked the guy. He’s a talented player. The “debate” about whether his celebrations are over-the-top is a bunch of BS to begin with, but I didn’t realize its probable origins with Cherry. And I had no idea about his background (granted, I know little about him anyway). Unfortunately, not surprising…

   The “hot stick” celebration made me laugh. Come on — it makes hockey more fun! People just want something to police, I suppose. How convenient that they can use it to bolster their xenophobic framing.

   Hockey started as a rich white people’s game. Now, it’s well-populated by folks from eastern Europe and surrounding areas. It’s interesting to watch the public adjust to that. Some adjust ok. Many don’t. I appreciate that you took some time to detail some of the BS that comes out of it. It shouldn’t be excused.

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:10 pm ¶

4. Chet Tower wrote:

   Not for nothing but, aren’t hockey fans sort of racist anyway?

   Or, better put, has anyone ever noticed how distictly Hockey fans couldn’t care less for sports with people of color in them?

   Maybe it’s just me, but…

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:10 pm ¶

5. SK8TN wrote:

   Ummmm, the NHL has players of color and fans of various colors and ethnicities. See the links below. If we don’t celebrate the players of color who are already here, how are we going to interest kids in playing hockey in the future?

   Also, I think Don Cherry is being more of a Canadian xenophobe here. I make no claims as to his mental state otherwise (I’ve thought that he is well past “dotty” and fast approaching senile). One of the exemplary Canadians he listed is Jerome Igilna, capitan of the Calgary Flames, 2002 Olympic Gold Medalist and probably the biggest black hockey star around right now.

   (Also, being a Nashvillian, I have to say that Barry Trotz better keep Joel Ward on the team next year, or I for one will be very upset. Ward and Legwand are great together as line-mates. And I’m still in mourning over losing Paul Kariya, my favorite eye-candy in the NHL.)

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_NHL_players

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_hockey_players_of_Asian_descent

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_hockey_players_of_Latino_descent

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_hockey_players_of_Middle_Eastern_descent

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:30 pm ¶

6. Alden Habacon wrote:

   Beautifully written. And yes, Don Cherry’s whole brand is being inflammatory, often controversial and over-the-top patriotic. In no way am I trying to defend Don Cherry’s comments, and especially not his “unapologetic ego,” but there’s more going on here than what this article implies.

   First, Canadians are as passionate about hockey as Americans are about baseball. So you should expect a bit of Canada-has-the-best-hockey-players-in-the-world-ism. And yes, he does take it too far making what can be interpreted as anti-Russian/European comments. I think the real “bigger picture” question actually is, “when does patriotism cross the line to being racist?”

   Second, I think this is more to do with Cherry’s perception of soccer culture versus hockey culture. Don Cherry is always talking about a strong sense of hockey etiquette. He’s always talking to kids about keeping your stick on the ice, etc. Not sure why Cherry would pick soccer though? More Canadians play soccer than any other sport, period! In fact, more people in the world play soccer than any other sport, period. Bad choice. Better for him to have picked basketball, as a good example of how players just score and move on. And ya, Wayne Gretzky’s poses are as iconic as those of Arnold Schwarzenegger! Really good point! During last night’s Vancouver/St. Louise game, after scoring the winning goal, Canuck Alexander Burrows made the bow-and-arrow pose in honour of their teammate Luc Bourdon who died (almost a year ago) in motorcycle crash. It was totally “in-your-face”, but also beautifully touching. The showmanship is an issue. It’s an issue in football. At the same time, it’s the playoffs. People are loosing teeth to win.

   Third, soccer has always had more visual diversity than hockey, because of its international reach, and the players themselves. That’s changing, but SLOWLY! So it’s likely that no one thought to find stock footage of white-looking soccer players to ensure that there wasn’t another unintended message about “white vs. non-white.” Good to have pointed this out. But I find it hard to believe that Cherry specifically asked for footage of dark-skinned soccer players. The best soccer players in the world are … (to no surprise) darker skinned.

   Fourth, the article kind of implies that when Don Cherry is saying “Canadian” that he means “white Canadians.” Canadians are diverse. Hockey fans in Canada are diverse, in fact Jarome Iginla is the FIRST black captain in NHL history (US and Canada). He has represented Canada internationally on numerous occasions, helping to lead Team Canada to its first gold medal in 50 years at the 2002 Winter Olympics. He’s a child of immigrant parents (from Africa and the US). Don Cherry would know this. In fact, what has been really interesting is Iginla’s comments that all the playoff trash talk on the ice is motivating, as long as they don’t cross the race line (paraphrase). What happens when they do cross that line?

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:34 pm ¶

7. Chet Tower wrote:

   @ SK8TN

   “The NHL has fans of various colors.”

   Are you sticking with the plural tense in your response or do you want to touch that up again?

   I’ll toss the general question our and hope for a consensus.

   Are racially insensitive comments from Hockey commentators par for the course? Or, simply asked, aren’t hockey fans kind of racist anyway?

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:38 pm ¶

8. Egad wrote:

   Everyone I know who likes hockey also likes other sports, like basketball, baseball, or soccer. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but so is yours.

   I likened Cherry’s remarks to how people felt about American football celebrations in the end zone (especially after the 50th goal, sportsmanship and the like)… but seeing the argument framed like this makes me wonder if there isn’t some xenophobia at play, given his latest comments.

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:48 pm ¶

9. SK8TN wrote:

   Personally, I’m a mutt of a mix that includes Filipina. I know of kids going into or currently in youth hockey here in Nashville that are African American and Asian. I go to Predators games and there are people of different races in the stands. I clearly remember sitting around African American, Asian, and Latino fans in the lower bowl when I attended games this seaon with my father. Admittedly, you’ll find better mix in bigger US cities or in Canada, but for the South, the mix in the stands here in Nashville made me feel a little better.

   Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 1:54 pm ¶

10. Luis wrote:

    Wow, anti-European xenophobia?

    Throwback, Canada, throwback.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 2:37 pm ¶

11. amandaw wrote:

    I think the real “bigger picture” question actually is, “when does patriotism cross the line to being racist?”

    That’s the thing — there’s no line to cross. Patriotism has elements of racism to it. Sometimes they’re stronger than others. But just because it’s not blatantly racist, recognizable to the mainstream “color-blind” person, doesn’t mean there isn’t racism there, just cuz it doesn’t “cross that line.”

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 2:47 pm ¶

12. Jehanzeb wrote:

    @ Chet Tower,

    I understand where you’re coming from, but I think it’s unfair to judge all hockey fans as racist. As a person of color who grew up in a predominately White area, I have noticed aversion to others sports like basketball and soccer. Throughout high school, I would hear them say basketball and soccer are “sissy sports.” Racial slurs were added from time to time. I remember fellow White students making absolutely disgusting racial slurs to Black students on the soccer field.

    My friends and I used to play roller hockey almost every day after school, and since we just started playing again (after a 4 year absence), I’ve been reflecting a lot on how *I* got into hockey. I also recalled the times when I felt a little uncomfortable, (especially when I played for a league) since my brother and I were the only brown-skinned hockey players. I haven’t experienced any racial remarks while playing hockey, but the looks and stares are still there (only when I’m playing with certain strangers, of course). When I played soccer in elementary school, I’ll never forget the one White girl who shouted at me, “hey black kid! Give me the ball! Hey black kid!” She called me “black kid” every time I had possession of the ball and it bothered me so much that I stopped playing and left the field.

    I mentioned Jarome Iginla in my article and I was going to elaborate more on him, but didn’t want to go off on a tangent. As Alden pointed out, Iginla is first Black captain in the NHL and top goal-scorer in the 2001-02 and 2003-04 seasons. As a person of color, I remember it being a special moment for me, but I also noticed that it wasn’t a big deal in my suburban town. Some of my White friends haven’t even heard of him. Being in Pennsylvania, I understood that wasn’t easy to follow his games since he’s all the way in another time zone (Calgary), but other players on the West coast like Owen Nolan, Peter Forseberg, Joe Sakic, Brendan Shanahan, Steve Yzerman, etc. were pretty well known here.

    Iginla is Canadian-born and in Don Cherry’s mind, Iginla is a Canadian hockey player. When Ted Nolan argued that racism is what kept him out of the NHL, Don Cherry said “”Racism is not in the National Hockey League. Of all the sports in the world, it’s the one that doesn’t have racism.”

    He is dead wrong. Black NHL players, including Iginla, wouldn’t be working against racism in the NHL if it didn’t exist. I remember when Chris Simon made racial slurs against Mike Grier, and when Craig Berube did the same to Peter Worrell. Another Black NHL player, Georges Laraque, has been very vocal about the racism he’s experienced in ice hockey:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbSOd5P8g2A

    Listing the number of minority athletes in the NHL doesn’t mean racism is absent. You can’t list them without discussing how their experiences in the NHL are far different than the average White North American player.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 3:00 pm ¶

13. jeff wrote:

    I think this is more about the way the game is played than racism. Soccer players are famous for their theatrics on scoring or being fouled and I can see why the old hockey guy would like to keep his sport the way he likes it. I would imagine he would be the first to praise a player of any colour or nationality who did things the way he thought they should be done. As the old saying goes ‘It doesnt matter if you win or lose, its how you play the game. Sounds more culturalist than racist to me.

    The video clips are not just random dark skinned footballers but some of the best players in the world from brazil, portugal and other places. These men are known for both their skill and their flamboyance. Not for the colours of their skins. For a sportsman to be compared to Ronaldinho or Figo is a massive compliment. If the video had been of celebrations during a game in, say, an African village then that might be different

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 3:06 pm ¶

14. gatamala wrote:

    etiquette? Outside of boxing, hockey is the only sport where folks can really throw down for a few seconds.

    Cherry’s ethnocentrism and xenophobia need to be checked. Notice how this happens in every sport. In the U.S. it was always a white vs. black dynamic. In baseball there seems to be tension between Black Americans and Black Latins. Boxing has almost always been an unabashedly racist sport.

    There is something about the physical dominance of sports that brings out ethnic/racial/national tensions. It’s very territorial. Perhaps white Canadians are seeing successful participation of POCs in other traditionally white sports and want to nip this in the bud?

    As DC is a wack sports city, it’s good to have somebody to brag about. I’ve noticed a serious uptick in Caps fans on the Metro. I just may buy a ticket (isn’t that good for the sport). We don’t care that he’s Russian, just win for fuck’s sake.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 3:23 pm ¶

15. bertie wrote:

    Don’t know much about hockey…but as a soccer fan, I know the sport is looked upon as somewhat effiminate by people who play other sports (esp. american football). Soccer players’ penchant for flopping at the slightest contact and wild celebrations after scoring doesn’t help dispel this “prima dona” image. So maybe his reference to soccer is more a disdain for the perceived lack of toughness/prima dona nature of soccer players instead of a racial appeal.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 3:35 pm ¶

16. Ruchama wrote:

    I think the divide between hockey and basketball (or soccer) could have as much to do with class as with race. Say you’re a little kid, just saw a game on TV, and want to try imitating what you saw. If what you saw was a basketball game, then you need a ball, a reasonably flat surface, and something to throw the ball through. Most playgrounds will supply everything except the ball, and that’s pretty cheap. Same with soccer — you need a ball and something to kick it into. You can’t become great with just this simple stuff, but you can get the basics and develop an interest in the game.

    Hockey, on the other hand, you need, at the very least, skates, ice, a stick, and a puck. The puck is cheap, there are cheap hockey sticks, but the skates and the ice are a bigger problem. In cold places, kids play around with cheap skates on frozen ponds, but in places that aren’t cold enough for the frozen ponds, rather than just going outside to a playground, you now need a parent to drive you to a rink and pay for ice time.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 3:39 pm ¶

17. Jehanzeb wrote:

    @ amandaw,

    Uh oh, you’re a Penguins fan? lol, I’m a Flyers fan, so we’re going to have some problems. lol, just kidding.

    After the lock-out, hockey hasn’t been the same for me. My favorite players like LeClair, Lindros, Renberg, and Primeau aren’t around anymore. We should have won in 1999-2000 if it weren’t for those New Jersey Devils! 2004-05 was another year we should have won when we had LeClair, Primeau, Recchi, Amonte, Zhamnov, Roenick, Kapanan, Handzus, etc. Sorry I’m just a bit nostalgic.

    @ jeff,

    I totally disagree. Considering the comments Don Cherry has made about European players, it’s blatantly xenophobic and racist. If you watch Don Cherry’s other clips (just click on the links that I included), you’ll hear him call Russian players “cowards” and “foreigners.” He pounds the desk when complaining about Sergei Fedrov and says, “I’m sick of hearing how great Fedrov is! He’s a diver!” When Cherry rips on European players and compares Ovechkin to soccer players, it’s codified racism.

    If it was about the way the game is played, how come Cherry isn’t ripping on Canadian players and their exuberant celebrations? As I mentioned, this is a new debate that started. Check out what Barry Melrose and Matthew Barnaby say about Ovechkin: they say “Give the guy a break, he’s the face of the NHL, he’s great for the game, he just scored his 50th goal, he can do whatever he wants.” Melrose also said, “if it was a Canadian player who did it, like Crosby, there wouldn’t be a big deal about it.” Even Melrose knows there’s ethnocentrism there.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 3:52 pm ¶

18. DcCaps wrote:

    Hi all –

    Longtime reader, first time wading into the comments. I had a ton to say and it’s really scattered, so I’ll just start with a little more background on Cherry for people who may not be familiar with him…

    ————————–

    -The guy’s been doing this forever. It’s only a bigger deal in the States now because OV is a headliner. Here he is explaining how tough Canadian players are compared to foreigners, including as an example Bobby Clarke’s slash on Kharlamov in the 1972 Summit Series:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM2ja_ZFFy8&feature=PlayList&p=A0140DB4CCBD38FE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
    (Kharlamov, who was voted to the Team of the Century, led the USSR to a 3-1-1 series lead over Canada before Clarke broke the Russian’s ankle with a deliberate slash that Clarke’s teammate Paul Henderson described as “shooting a guy in a hallway.”) I’ll come back to this…

    -Cherry also has a bad record on gender. Here he is dumping on women at hockey games:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRm_K9OpYbo&feature=related

    -Europeans = Europeans. He recently referred to Olli Jokinen (Calgary’s Finnish Center) as “my favorite Russian or whatever.” (I don’t have the video offhand, it was on Coach’s Corner.) Years ago he described Winnipeg coach Alpo Suhonen as “some kind of dog food.”

    -Cherry has a broad right-wing political sensibility. One week, Hockey Night in Canada ran a story on Andrew Ference’s off-season work with children in developing countries. Cherry later called the feature “sickening” (because it was unrelated to hockey, he explained,) and called Ference “Dr. Suzuki” in reference to a prominent Canadian environmentalist. He and co-host Ron McLean spent a segment in 2003 debating Canadian participation in the Iraq War, the transcript of which has since been removed from the CBC’s website. (McLean generally plays the liberal straight man to Cherry’s clown act, including trying to keep him on topic.)

    If you watch Coach’s Corner, Cherry executes a particular trick that Limbaugh listeners will recognize. Before his most outrageous comments, he usually explains that this’ll get him in trouble, or he doesn’t want to say this but he has to. The man is excellent at painting himself as victim of The Powers that Be, whether that’s multi-culti softies like his partner McLean or NHL officials trying to cut down on fighting.

    ———————————

    Second topic: It’s interesting that the discussion thus far has stayed on race/xenophobia. Understandably, there’s plenty of material there. I’d also just add that there’s a masculinity angle as well.

    Hockey is a physical game. What are Cherry’s prime complaints about “Europeans?” Soft, weak, etc. It’s one thing to celebrate well-executed physicality of the sort you see with players like Iginla and yes, Ovechkin, but it’s hard to listen to Cherry’s schtick without noticing the way he constructs things like “the code;” ie. you hit someone, expect to be hit back. (FWIW, dude certainly doesn’t conform to classic male dress codes:
    http://blog.ounodesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/doncherrypinklavender.jpg )

    It’s great to laud players willing to play through pain, or give credit for skillful, physical hockey; but it’s also worth noting the prevalence of “Cindy Crosby” [Sidney] as the insult of choice towards one of the league’s star players.

    Gatamala said:

    “Outside of boxing, hockey is the only sport where folks can really throw down for a few seconds.”

    There’s an important distinction to be made here between power forwards (OV, Iginla, Guerin, Holmstrom) who are scorers-slash-physical players, and goons (Dan Carcillo, Colton Orr, Peter Worrell as mentioned earlier,) whose primary task on the ice is to fight. It’s generally this second group that throws down, and it’s their job. So it’s not just that hockey allows for fighting; it’s that while other sports have players who can dominate with strength rather than finesse or technical skill, only hockey has essentially a *designated fighter role.*

    …which all brings me back to Kharlamov. Clarke was an outstanding Power Forward, but he was also a goon. The fact that people can take a positive view of his desperate cheap shot against the Russian may show us where the nationalism meets the masculinity. Slashing someone’s ankle violates the “code” completely. However, in this case it was done by someone with well-established credentials as a tough guy, wearing a red maple leaf, against a “soft” foreigner. (Remember that Cherry criticizes Kharlamov, not Clarke, for missing the next game.)

    There’s a film called “Valery’s Ankle” that discusses the construction of Canadian cultural identity and masculinity using hockey as a metaphor and this event as its focus, and the director’s short paper on the subject can be found here:
    http://www.ciam-arts.org/archives/archives_projets_etudiants/2003_10_kashmere_brett/Valery’s_ankle_paper.doc

    Anyway, I’m damn scattered today, but hopefully something in there is worth jumping off of.

    Also…

    @ Ruchama – The class issue is fascinating because you’ve hit on the variance by simple geography. It seems like it would be prohibitively expensive for kids to play, (certainly compared to basketball,) but in Moose Factory, Ontario, it’s probably just as easy to find a pond to play on than a basketball rink that isn’t frozen over. Also, since it’s so deeply a part of the Canadian culture, you’re more likely to find youth hockey, skating rinks, etc. in poorer towns. (Whereas in the United States, they’re absolutely a suburban perk.) I would wager that a much higher percentage of Canadian players come from disadvantaged backgrounds than American players, (possibly excepting kids from Maine, Minnesota etc). No one has any data on this, do you?

    @ Amandam –

    I’m certain Cherry would swear up and down he isn’t a racist, and he would point to his praise of Jarome Iginla as proof. (Iginla = black friend.) Cherry is certainly patriotic, in whatever sense one means it. I don’t think it’s always bad, I mean the guy deserves credit for his touching tributes to fallen Canadian soldiers. He’s frequently choking down tears as he reads the names and their home towns at the end of Coach’s Corner. The problem is, he has this desire to “stick up for Canada,” and you see it whether he’s complaining about teams drafting foreign players, Russians playing the game the “wrong way,” or pretty much any of his remarks in which he paints Canada as a victim and pimps this heroic, masculine nationalism as a counter to foreigners and multi-culti weakness..

    @ Jehanzeb — Flyers’ fan?
    One word: Goaltending.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 4:48 pm ¶

19. DcCaps wrote:

    Oh, and @ gatamala –

    It may not matter that he’s Russian, but it was pretty sweet last year when he scored a playoff goal against the Flyers and the video guy responded with a clip of Ivan Drago beating the crap out of Rocky.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 4:54 pm ¶

20. jeff wrote:

    Maybe its my privilidge talking but as a European guy I really dont feel at all offended by the remarks. Particularly in a sports setting where competetivness and petty tribalisms make it all the more fun. I could see how it might be troubling if he was talking about black players or whatever but even in your article you point out that he said he will play anyone who comes over and plays ‘canadian’ meaning, as far as the game is concerned, tough and low-key. I think he is perfectly entitled to his views in this regard and whilst of course his language may be a bit dubious it does seem pretty mild to me.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 5:24 pm ¶

21. Winn wrote:

    I don’t have anything really substantive to add, except to say that as a black woman who is a huge hockey fan, I really appreciate this discussion, especially the fascinating intersectionality of race, nationalism, masculinity, patriotism, social class, etc. This is a somewhat different topic for Racialicious, and me likey! @DcCaps, thanks especially for the detailed insight into Cherry’s overall sensibility and attitudes. O Canada, indeed.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 5:41 pm ¶

22. Erica wrote:

    It’s kind of ironic for Don Cherry to complain about flamboyance. Just look at his suits. (The one in that particular YouTube clip is probably the tamest thing he’s ever worn.)

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 6:10 pm ¶

23. bluefoot wrote:

    As as long time hockey fan (and WOC), I have to add my bit:
    Cherry has LONG been recognized as a bombastic racist, sexist blowhard. This doesn’t make his provoking and invoking “otherness” of players any better, but all the hockey fans I know recognize that Cherry is an ass. Why he’s still paid by the CBC/HNIC, I have no idea, except he’s become an institution. Like John Madden for the NFL.

    @Chet – Have you ever been to a hockey game? I’ve encountered a LOT less racism in my 30+ years of going to NHL and local games than I have in four seasons of attending baseball games in Boston. My brother (a POC) was scouted by the NHL back in the late 70s. He encountered some racism, mostly from other players his age. The professionals- the NHL players and coaches – who taught the hockey camps he attended were the ones who stepped in, gave him tips on how to respond on and off the ice, and came down HARD on the players making racist jibes. This isn’t to say there’s no racism in hockey, but I don’t think it’s any worse than any other sport.

    @ Ruchama – I think there’s something to be said for the class divide, at least here in the USA, for hockey. I grew up in a northern city, where wearing boots, or borrowing skates and playing on frozen ponds, or badly drained fields, and using random stuff as goal posts was the norm. But if you don’t grow up around the Great Lakes or New England, hockey is going to cost $$$.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 6:14 pm ¶

24. Jehanzeb wrote:

    @ Jeff,

    Don Cherry said he’s willing to play European players as long as they play “Canadian” hockey. In other words, he wants them to assimilate to his own abstract understanding of what “Canadian” is. It’s abstract because, as I pointed out in my post, Canadian players have displayed dramatic goal celebrations too. Click on the links I provided (Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Williams, and Thereon Fluery) and you’ll see that they’re not very low-key. Could you imagine the hard time Cherry would give to a European player who wanted to play for him?

    I mentioned Barry Melrose in my previous comment. Follow this link and listen to what he has to say:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4015775

    It’s a great segment on the subject of celebrations, but fast forward to about 2:40 to hear what Melrose has to say.

    @ DcCaps,

    Thanks for sharing that information about Don Cherry. I personally think it’s unfortunate that the “celebration controversy” spilled over in the United States. To see certain people I play hockey with complain about it is something that I feel drains the passion out of the game.

    lol, and yeah, our goaltending has been a problem for the longest time! I still miss the Flyers teams from 97-2004… I enjoyed it when we had Forsberg, but it still wasn’t the same.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 6:43 pm ¶

25. Rob in Chicago wrote:

    Hi all,

    Blackhawk fan here. Racism among fans still exists, but is fading. Personally, I’m thrilled that diversity is finally penetrating the NHL. All I care about is talent, character and results. If the Blackhawks could win a cup with a roster sans Canadians, I’d take it in a Montreal minute. And since they haven’t won squat since 1961 the sooner the better.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 7:26 pm ¶

26. DcCaps wrote:

    @ Rob –

    But then you’d be the Red Wings. :p

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 7:30 pm ¶

27. Ruchama wrote:

    @bluefoot, DcCaps: I grew up in the suburbs of NYC, where we’d usually have maybe a month or two each winter of safe skating on natural bodies of water, if that. The rest of the time, it was rinks. I figure skated as a kid, and that meant my mom having to drive us to the rink, about 20 minutes away, pay for the ice time (generally around $8 per hour per kid), and usually she’d sit around in the waiting area of the rink with the other skating moms while we were skating. So that required not only the costs of the equipment and ice time, but also having a mother who had a few hours of free time a few days a week.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 7:57 pm ¶

28. BSK wrote:

    Unfortunately, I don’t think this is just a hockey issue. This plagues all sports, with the “older guard” (read: old white guys) chiding the young kids (read: mostly young black guys) for not respecting the game, because they are playing it a different way. Do some guys cross the line? Certainly. But guys crossed the line back then at probably the same rate as guys cross the line now. These guys need to realize the game has passed them by, their influence on it is limited-to-non-existent, and that the game is defined by those who are currently playing it, not those who used to.

    I applaud Ovechkin for bringing excitement and exuberance to the game. I loved his “hot stick” routine and said that is exactly what the NHL needs to get fans like me more interested. Maybe the NHL (or just Don Cherry) don’t want fans like me, but they’re missing out on a large segment of the fan base.

    My question is, do you think that Cherry’s marks were really motivated by xenophobicism? Or do you think he was just offended that someone would play in a way different than how he wants? If it was a young Canadian, would he attack his age? An American, would he attack his American-ness? I’m not excusing him in anyway, but I’m wondering if Cherry’s remarks are mostly motivated by the fact that he is a narrow-minded jerk and instead of being able to be reflective and understand how his myopic view is influencing his hockey analysis, he is finding easily-identifiable differences between these players and himself (and the players he admires) and picking at those?

    He’s a bitter, threatened old man who can’t accept the game has passed him by, and is grabbing at straws to blame others instead of blaming himself.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 8:16 pm ¶

29. amandaw wrote:

    Jehanzeb, just you wait til tomorrow night

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 8:22 pm ¶

30. DcCaps wrote:

    @ Ruchama — Right, I grew up off Exit 18, it wasn’t far enough north for hockey to be a casual sport. There was a ton of hockey stuff for bourgeois kids down in Rye because that’s where Rangers camp was.

    @ BSK – Truly, Cherry makes it hard to delineate xenophobia from “get those kids off my lawn!”

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 8:32 pm ¶

31. Sobia wrote:

    @DcCaps:

    Wow…thanks for that. And especially for discussing the gender aspect as well.

    ————————

    I’ve always found this “toughness” in sports like hockey to be fake and manufactured. Its almost as if there is this attempt to “prove” how macho these men are. And painting Europeans as cowards while Canadians are brave and tough. Yeah. Brave. That would explain why no one here is scared of those big, bad, scary Muslims. *rolling eyes*

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 9:41 pm ¶

32. BSK wrote:

    DcCaps-

    Not sure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me. Curious to hear more either way, if you’re up to it.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 10:34 pm ¶

33. DcCaps wrote:

    Sorry if that was unclear, I was agreeing with you to an extent. I’m with you that Cherry is longin’ for the good ol’ days, but it’s also hard to take someone with a long, right-wing track record and assume that it’s coincidence that the good ol’ days didn’t include foreigners.

    (Might be more up to carrying on at the moment except that … well … our 20 year old goalie has given up a total of 3 goals in 3 games, and we’ve managed to lose 2 of them. It’s going to be a long off-season…)

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 10:51 pm ¶

34. BSK wrote:

    DcCaps-

    Thanks for your reply.

    I didn’t mean to imply that xenophobia was completely absent from Cherry’’s comments. They clearly were a factor. I just don’t think they were the primary motivating factor in his line of thinking. I guess I would define it as a more “passive” influence than an “active” influence. Reprehensible nonetheless, but I think the bigger problem with Cherry is less a specific hatred/fear of foreign-born hockey players, and more a general disregard and dislike for anyone who doesn’t prescribe to his particular line of thinking.

    On a separate note, I’m curious about the use of the term ‘xenophobic’. My understanding was always that it meant “foreigner”, which I interpreted as non-native-born member of a given country. Seeing as how his comments are more about North America vs. Europe. Clearly there is a bias, but is xenophobic the right word? Is my understanding wrong? Please enlighten me.

    Posted 22 Apr 2009 at 10:59 pm ¶

35. Renee wrote:

    Don Cherry has disgusted me for years. It sickens me that he believes that he gets to define what is and isn’t Canadian. His attitude however plays right into the racialized understanding of Canadian as white.

    Posted 23 Apr 2009 at 12:30 am ¶

36. jvansteppes wrote:

    Oh Don Cherry… This doesn’t come as a surprise for those of us who remember his Rock ‘em sock’em videos (complete with plaid suits and a macho barking dog) and his advocacy of violence in the sport, even for kids. Years ago Cherry felt a lot of heat from parents’ groups angry that he basically promoted violence to children and he’s actually toned it down a bit.

    My favorite video of the plaid man is definitely, “Don Cherry meets a gay man.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dujtJfhclUs
    What’s funny is that the ‘gay man’ (Kids in the Hall’s Scott Thompson) actually makes a joke about Europeans and their lack of violence, and of course Cherry reacts like uncomfortable uncles of mine from Ontario who want to appear liberal but really don’t care when fags get the shit kicked out of them.

    To understand Don Cherry (for those outside Canada) you have to grasp that for Canadians, lacking the masculinist warrior white hetero icons available in military iconography, hockey was THE site of chauvinistic nation-building, and Don Cherry is like the Rush Limbaugh of hockey, as Decaps points out.
    Debates about the ‘Canadian’ way of hockey vs. ‘Other’ types are indeed wrapped up in anxiety about losing dominance of the field where Canadian white/hetero/macho aggression finds its best outlet.

    Ruchama: your point about class is becoming more relevant in Canada (although street hockey is still playable with less gear) but there was a time when hockey was seen as so vital to Canadian boyhoods that philanthropists or local governments would subsidize hockey in most communities, providing rink time, skates, and gear. We still have free rinks all over in Montreal.

    Hockey also has a history in Aboriginal communities in Canada and not only because the sticks themselves were invented by the Mi’kmaq. There are Aboriginal leagues all over despite its image as white sport. Jehanzeb et al: have you found any Cherry commentary on these leagues? I imagine he has some colonial commentary somewhere out there…
    Thanks for the post!

    Posted 23 Apr 2009 at 12:36 am ¶

37. DcCaps wrote:

    Last thing for the night from my end, but yeah it’s complicated with the question of Canada / Russia vs. North America / Europe.

    Cherry is incredibly pro-American when it comes to the war in Iraq, preferring the U.S. invasion to his own government’s policy, and he says nice things about the United States all the time. So on one hand, he has no problem with lumping North America into one awesome place when he’s comparing it to those foreigners. (Finnish / Swedish etc. all basically = Russian.)

    However, if you listen to his frequent dumping on Maple Leafs coach Ron Wilson, you might’ve caught this line:
    “He’s an American telling us about hockey.”

    So when Cherry needs it to be just Canada, it’s just Canada.

    It’s hard to precisely define a term like “xenophobic” when we’re talking about someone who presents internal inconsistencies.

    Posted 23 Apr 2009 at 1:10 am ¶

38. DcCaps wrote:

    (Sorry, the last thing was @ BSK)

    Posted 23 Apr 2009 at 1:10 am ¶

39. little mixed girl wrote:

    interesting…

    as to hockey players or fans being racist, i wouldn’t know about that.
    i’m a fan, but not a hardcore fan.
    …and a red wings fan, at that! (michigan can at least look to them for some brightness)

    for me, hockey was like soccer on ice.
    and like soccer for many people around the world, i was under the impression that hockey was a “blue collar” sport.
    the rich kids were the ones playing water polo, soccer or rowing.
    in hockey you lose teeth…you fight…and teeth are lost!

    it’s popularity is mostly confined to the northern states and canada (in north america)…

    as to cherry, i’ve never heard of him.
    i thought it was a given that russian players were considered the best, but i guess i was wrong.

    i would guess that the reason you’re not seeing ppl call him out as “racist” is because he’s a white(?) guy talking about other white people.

    oh, and sergie rocks.

    Posted 23 Apr 2009 at 2:14 am ¶

40. BSK wrote:

    DcCaps-

    Interesting points. I don’t know much about Cherry, so I appreciate your insight into his views. I think you’re right that he lumps things together when convenient and separates them when it’s not. Just a mess of contradictions all around.

    On hockey, what’s up with your boys? I just moved to DC and their hot start and Ovie helped me get back into hockey, and now they’re rolling over? Oi.

    Posted 23 Apr 2009 at 7:58 pm ¶

41. Nate wrote:

    I don’t know where Don Cherry gets his impression that Russian/CIS players are less *butch*/tough/aggressive that canadian ones.

    He should go see a spartak v dynamo game. I’ve never seen players with so many visible facial scars oustide of boxing before. Or plain blooodlust on the drink (but there’s quite a history there between the teams).

    And that’s nothing compared to the ultras (It was only 5 minutes after the game ended (and Spartak got a hell of a drubbing) that Omon had to start wading in, boots/trucheons first)

    Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 5:33 am ¶

42. DcCaps wrote:

    @ BSK –

    Lack of depth.

    Look at the secondary scoring. Caps have 23 total points this series, and the Big 3 plus Green have 16 of those. Also, Ovechkin/Backstrom/Semin are a combined +8. The rest of the team is an astonishing -13. Fehr is a -3 and he only plays 8 minutes a game (!)

    They needed to make a deadline move for a physical 2nd or 3rd liner, some kind of late-career power forward who can actually score once in a blue moon (think Bill Guerin to Pittsburgh, or Antropov to NYR). Steckel/Gordon/Bradley as our “physical” line just doesn’t do it, they aren’t crashing the net, they aren’t disrupting Lundquist, they just haven’t stepped up at all.

    Kozlov has a long career of playoff chokes, Federov is fighting his ass off but he’s 40, Fehr has been nonsense and should be benched for someone from Hershey, and Fleischmann apparantly cashed in his vacation days at the All-Star break.

    Caps couldn’t upgrade at the trade deadline because of almost $10 million wrapped up in expendable goaltender Jose ThreeOrMore and currently-benched Center Michael Nylander. Hopefully, they’ll fill the gap of one or more veteran forwards in the offseason.

    The team’s still ahead of schedule, the comparisons to Pittsburgh don’t make sense because the Penguins have a much deeper set of strong veterans to compliment the young core group – Guerin, Miro Satan, Sykora, Hal Gill, and Sergei Gonchar.

    The good news is, the defense looks spectacular without Schultz out there. Boudreau loves him because he came up through Hershey, and he puts up an artificially high +/- because he plays with Green and has a lot of ice time with the top line. That said, anyone who watches them regularly knows he’s a pylon who can’t hit and carries a delusion of being an offensive defenseman. The back line has looked outstanding since they benched him, and with Alzner coming up next year, we should be able to solve the defensive weaknesses the team has had for the last few seasons.

    Wow, sorry, that was long.

    Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 3:44 pm ¶

43. uppitywhore wrote:

    I see two layers to Cherry’s traditional tirades:

    The first, I agree, is racist. His problems with “showboating” call to mind the post-goal antics of soccer and american football players, a much darker crowd than your average hockey player. His issue with Russian players, or any player without Canadian/American citizenship is clearly anti-immigrant. They are not doing things the “Canadian” way and they are stealing positions from “Canadian” players, who are willing to do things, if not with the same level of talent, then at least in a more familiar fashion.

    The second is sexist. Worse than being unfamiliar, these players are playing “like girls.” REAL Canadian men like to fight, and they walk their injuries off. The working class Joes that watch hockey don’t worry about getting injured at work and neither should the sports stars they worship. At the bar. While drinking tough Canadian beer, displaying emotion after a victory is as sickening as eating vegetables… etc. Sexist, with a healthy dose of capitalist “work till you drop” sentiment thrown in.

    Don Cherry is a dick.

    Posted 24 Apr 2009 at 8:59 pm ¶

44. CGgirl wrote:

    Okay Jehanzeb, I hope you’re still reading this post because I’d like to ask, since Cherry is a white guy doesn’t that mean that he isn’t even considered a Native Canadian? Native Canadians, the people that were there first are NOT white, am I right? So Cherry’s ancestors must have come from another country outside of Canada. Do you know what his heritage is? Could this douchebag be European and not even know it?

    Nevertheless I’ll say it loud and proud, DON CHERRY IS A FUCKING RACIST. A total asshole. I hope when people google his name this post pops up as the first damn thing they see!

    Because as if the above examples weren’t enough, don’t forget the Nagano Olympics, when he referred to the Japanese people as “Chinamen”, no kidding. Never mind that two of the players on the men’s & women’s Canadian hockey teams were half Japanese themselves, but hey, maybe that’s part of the problem, I’ve never seen ANY Canadian hockey players stand up to him. Those Canadian Japanese players never said a damn thing about his comments! And there you have it, the reason Cherry doesn’t change is because the people he considers important to the game (Canadians), don’t demand that he change. Can you imagine if Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux told him to shut the fuck up? If only they had the guts.

    Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 3:07 am ¶

45. Doudou wrote:

    Ah, Don Cherry. A true Canadian icon. It should also be noted that his issues are not simply non-Canadians: he also considers Quebec’s french-speaking players total pussies.
    All that’s missing from Don Cherry’s tirades are the Jews. (should come anytime now, old age and all…)

    Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 1:41 am ¶

46. theTruth wrote:

    “”Or, better put, has anyone ever noticed how distictly Hockey fans couldn’t care less for sports with people of color in them?”"

    Maybe they’re not to fond of all the jive-ass celebrations!

    Posted 04 May 2009 at 10:05 pm ¶

47. tony wrote:

    I agree with your view completely. However, I don’t his xenophobia is limited to European players. He routinely criticizes American’s for….being American.

    American’s typically don’t feel comfortable criticizing him. Call it “Bush-guilt.”

    Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 12:53 pm ¶