Trackbacks & Pings

1. California’s Religious Wrong is on the warpath again; plus more links. « Small-Town Elitist on 09 Apr 2009 at 8:56 pm

   [...] their names to make things easier on election workers. Racialicious has an interesting quote from Bai Ling about Asians and Hollywood’s [...]

Comments

1. Elton wrote:

   I have never seen or heard of this movie, but with a title like “Crank 2,” it’s sure to embrace a documentary-like sense of realism.

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 12:22 pm ¶

2. CrzyCatDC wrote:

   She may not think of herself as an “Asian” or “Asian American actress,” but everyone else does and she’ll continue to be cast into the same “prostitute, friend, girlfriend” box until she acknowledges the limitations of her viewpoint and starts doing something about it. The problem is not that these films portray these things, it’s that the overall image of Asians becomes limited when media avoids presenting any other images in favor of the stereotypes that sell…But then again, like she said, a job is a job. Some people just want to make a buck. Everybody’s got to work somewhere.

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 12:30 pm ¶

3. atlasien wrote:

   I can understand why people love to hate Bai Ling, I just can’t join in. She’s got some major mental problems…

   But what’s David Carradine’s excuse? He’s been milking the same yellowface gig for centuries now. God, he’s disgusting.

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 12:35 pm ¶

4. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

   Have you read Bai Ling’s blog? The comments are pretty sickening, written by obsessed white guys who want to exoticize and fetishize her into an Asian beauty doll or whatever.

   My friends and I love going over to her blog to read the comments. It always make us LOL.

   Some guys are truly desperate, racist and pathetic.

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 12:40 pm ¶

5. Lola wrote:

   I don’t think she is accepting stereotypes I think she is saying this is what I have to do to get work and pay the bills.

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 12:45 pm ¶

6. Fiqah wrote:

   @The Editrix: “Asian girls with weapons…”
   ::: looks at photo:::

   Ah, you never let me down.

   Re: Bai Ling – SIGH. I’ve decided not to feel one way or the other about her, whether it be her general wackiness, or the fact that she’s apparently EXTREMELY allergic to clothing.

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 1:01 pm ¶

7. Steve wrote:

   I think Bai Ling is a little loony. But I also agree that she’s got to make a living. As a fellow Asian American, I just wish it wasn’t in such a cringe-worthy way. With my luck next thing I’ll hear is that they’ve cast her and William Hung in Avatar as a peace offering to Asian Americans over the casting controversy…

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 1:22 pm ¶

8. Talulah wrote:

   Oh, Bai. First you choke on Fug Madness and now this?

   Seriously, though, this is BAI LING. She writes messages on bandaids and then sticks them to her shins. We were expecting something sane out of her *why*, exactly?

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 1:38 pm ¶

9. Guerita wrote:

   didn’t;t another actress Vivian ——- (I can’t remember her last names) say that the only reason She plays stereotypical Asian charters because that the only roles that she is offered and she could never get a role as Barbara Streisand daughter. The said thing the apparently Bai Ling was once a talented actress in China (But I found this out from Wikipedia so don’t trust me on this) pretty sad

   Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 1:41 pm ¶

10. By Who wrote:

    I think she’s depressed? She reminds me of all the girls I used to date. All their weirdness is really them struggling to just make it to the next day. Well that’s the impression I got from about 10 minutes of reading her blog about a year ago. Maybe I picked a bad day.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 2:13 pm ¶

11. Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist! wrote:

    Don’t you guys know. Hollywood hates women, duh. ESpecially women of color. An Academy award winning actress, Marion Cotillard, always played these amazing roles in French films. Now she’s reduced to a gangster’s girlfriend in Public Enemies.

    What a joke. Hollywood can eat my shit.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 2:40 pm ¶

12. Kaonashi wrote:

    What she’s saying is that with this particular movie it works. It’s about Chinese triads doing a bunch of bad things (their women included) so there’s not going to be too many “good” guys in this context.

    Guerita: She IS a good actress in non-American movies; I don’t even bother seeing her American fare because they are all one-note. In most of her Chinese films she plays very layered, morally ambivalent characters.

    I have to admit there’s is a small piece of my cold black heart that loves this woman. Her blog is crazy as hell. I save it for rainy day luls when I’m depressed.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 3:59 pm ¶

13. johnjihoonchang wrote:

    I have to admit that Bai Ling strikes me as a bit unstable, but I also understand that many actors have to make compromises to make money in an industry that’s more likely to change the race of a part from Asian/Asian American to white than the other way around.

    The point that Ms. Bai Ling misses is not that there are such Chinese gangsters. Yes, there are and they do bad things and certainly movies that include them aren’t making things up out of nothing, however, when the mainstream media representations of persons of Chinese (or broader Asian) descent tend to be limited to certain fixed archetypes tied with appearance/heritage without deeper explorations of character, then many less critical viewers might find themselves unable to see a world where such persons are anything more than these archetypes and thus unintentionally trivializing or dehumanizing the portrayed persons in their minds. Done over a large scale and it creates a culture of generalizations that further inhibits seeing persons of Chinese/Asian descent as anything more than those stereotypes, further limiting roles in American mainstream media for persons bearing such a likeness or background to those same archetypes. In this instance, the context of the United States audience plays a larger role than I think it did in her previous work in China, where there is a larger spectrum of characters portrayed by persons of Chinese descent.

    Or something like that.

    That said, I was an unfortunate enough soul to watch the first Crank with features “Chinese” gangsters quite prominently. It was a rather typical gangster routine, so I couldn’t complain any more than every other movie featuring Asian gangsters, but the mind-blowing part of it all was that every single “Chinese” gangster had a Corean name and spoke in Corean. “Chinatown” as well as the “Chinese sweatshop” also happened to be filled with Corean-speaking persons. And yet, every one was “Chinese”. Perhaps they were all American Chinese immigrants of Goryo-persons descent, but I feel even that rather esoteric explanation is a bit of a stretch, since the dialect used was primarily mainstream Corean and many Goryo-persons have integrated into their neighboring cultures.

    Consequently, I don’t hold much hope for Crank 2 and won’t waste my time or money in supporting its success. The previous film’s incoherent support of Orientalist fantasy has turned me off enough as it is. (And that’s just limiting the critique to its approach to Asian and Asian American persons–there’s also troublesome material in the original Crank relating to other ethnic groups as well.)

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 4:40 pm ¶

14. JC wrote:

    Oh well. She’s another good Chinese actress destroyed by racist Hollywood, just like Zhang Ziyi. They were real actresses in China, but living, walking Asian fetish in Hollywood. Both largely disowned by the Chinese movie goers. Sigh.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 4:42 pm ¶

15. miche wrote:

    I agree with the comment above that actors are pretty far down the food chain, and they’re just picking up what’s been handed to them. If you have a sense of pride, you will probably refuse a part that is based on stereotype. However, guess what, there is someone waiting in line right behind you who would jump on it in a heartbeat. Money is what drives the production companies to create crappier and crappier stuff, and until people stop going to these movies, they will keep making them. I would criticize the studios instead, and not pay to go see these crappy movies. Voting with dollars is the only thing studios understand.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 4:59 pm ¶

16. johnjihoonchang wrote:

    Ooh, I could also add that they might have been ethnic Corean Chinese American immigrants (since there are a bunch of them in the Manchurian region of China), but they use a different dialect too.

    I’d dismiss the dialect thing because the audience in the US wouldn’t know such a thing, but the explanation I had to come up with is far-fetched considering the economic conditions of that diasporic group.

    So, I’d have to say that Crank is just taking apples and calling them oranges, relying on the ignorance of the audience to get by. Or maybe it’s not that insidious and rather, the producers just didn’t know and didn’t care, which would place them into a league of fools.

    But I’d like to be more optimistic than that. If you can call it optimism.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 5:22 pm ¶

17. Miles Ellison wrote:

    This looks like a really stupid movie. And nothing is more popular in America than stupid movies. Especially stupid movies with cliched and offensive stereotypes. The globalization of minstrelsy continues apace.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 5:36 pm ¶

18. Lauren O wrote:

    “I don’t consider myself an Asian actress or an Asian American actress.

    This reminds me scarily of my Korean-American friend’s response to John McCain’s professed hatred of “gooks.” When I asked her how she could possibly vote for him after he said that, she said, “I don’t really identify as Asian, I identify as kind of Asian-American. I grew up with so many Jewish friends that I kind of identify as Jewish!”

    I guess there will always be people who act first and come up with justifications for it later, even if there’s really no justification.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 6:49 pm ¶

19. Bagelsan wrote:

    This reminds me scarily of my Korean-American friend’s response to John McCain’s professed hatred of “gooks.” When I asked her how she could possibly vote for him after he said that, she said, “I don’t really identify as Asian, I identify as kind of Asian-American. I grew up with so many Jewish friends that I kind of identify as Jewish!”

    That reminds me a bit of my friend. She likes to say she identifies as white (she’s adopted) but I think she’s just being flippant at least a little bit… She’s at least self-aware enough to realize that she can self-identify however she wants but society will still treat her like any other Asian woman.

    (But now I’m thinking about Bai Ling as Azula from Avatar, and it’s kinda cracking me up. ^^ That’s some sweet crazy-synergy there…)

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 9:55 pm ¶

20. Hibbs4Prez wrote:

    Don’t you guys know. Hollywood hates women, duh. ESpecially women of color. An Academy award winning actress, Marion Cotillard, always played these amazing roles in French films. Now she’s reduced to a gangster’s girlfriend in Public Enemies.

    What a joke. Hollywood can eat my shit.
    _________________________________

    This post is spot on. I’m a guy and I wonder why female ticket buyers stil allow Hollywood to treat them as if they don’t have any purchasing power.

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 11:53 pm ¶

21. ART wrote:

    I think it was around the 2000 oscars that Julia Roberts won for best actress & I was furious b/c

    a) she was so mediocre as an actress & as a human being (as evidenced by that arrogant obnoxious Oscar speech)

    b) Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Ziyi hadn’t been nominated for Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon when their characters & performances had been unparalleled in the history of women in the movies.

    I know the foreign language thing would seem to be the logical counter-argument, but I seriously think they got shut out b/c they put Julia Roberts to shame and it was her “turn” or whatever.

    I have to agree @11 that “Hollywood hates women, duh. Especially women of color.”

    Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 11:53 pm ¶

22. Tony wrote:

    I don’t think “Hollywood Hates Women”.

    Hates implies they’re doing this stuff intentionally with malice in their hearts.

    I think the sad truth is that they don’t even realize they’re doing it.

    The simple truth is they don’t even think of writing an Asian character who ISN’T ridiculously stereotyped because as far as their mind goes “Normal” = White.

    They don’t think of writing say, an interesting character whose race is just one small part of who they are. (Like they do constantly for white characters)

    As to the prominence of bad things happening to women, well, most writers are male, hence the males are the heroes (basic wish fulfillment) and the easiest way to get the ‘hero’ in trouble without making him weak is to do something to the women he cares about.

    To me, the stuff to really worry about isn’t the small amount of people who consciously hate, it’s the rather large numbers of people who don’t even realize what they’re saying/doing.

    ————-

    Now, I remember seeing Bai Ling first in “The Crow”, one could make the case her character there was a stereotype (sort of mystic type, was naked in a scene with I think a dragon tat on her back).

    But I never even really thought of it as such at the time (I was about 13…my parents didn’t quite realize all the stuff in the movie I had just rented)

    Of course maybe I didn’t think of it because hey, all the bad guys were so out there and weird.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 2:49 am ¶

23. Fulton wrote:

    A photo of Bai Ling without an exposed nipple? Racialicious, you’re doing it wrong.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 5:38 am ¶

24. Lxy wrote:

    “I don’t consider myself an Asian actress or an Asian American actress.”

    Neither do many Asian Americans.

    White (male) supremacy is a sickness, one that infects Hollywood and indeed American society in general.

    As Public Enemy used to say: Burn, Hollywood, Burn.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 5:48 am ¶

25. Irene wrote:

    @24 “I don’t consider myself an Asian actress or an Asian American actress.”
    Neither do many Asian Americans.
    ——————————–
    Sadly, I have to agree wholeheartedly with your comment, Lxy. In my experience, a lot of Asian-Americans, especially at the college level, have a lot of apathy with regards to racial identity. As an Asian-American who does feel racialized and race-conscious, I am frustrated to no end by AA’s who think that their “race doesn’t matter” or that being of Asian descent is affectively equivalent to being White.
    I often wonder, though, whether it’s fair to ask minority individuals (whether it be gender, sexual, racial, etc) to be extra progressive or thoughtful just because of their minority status. If Bai Ling (and I feel ridiculous even talking about BL at all) or any other AA doesn’t want to take a stand for or try to represent or give voice to AAs, why should they have to, especially if their job or income or status depends on their silence? I struggle with that sometimes.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 9:35 am ¶

26. CVT wrote:

    I have to say it: read a description or watch a trailer for Crank 2 (or the original), and I think we can move past getting angry about any one particular person’s role in that one. If any movie is very clearly only for actors that need money – this is the one. Every single actor in it. It’s intentionally so beyond ridiculous that it’s not even worth thinking about. Honestly.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 9:38 am ¶

27. Matt wrote:

    This morning it struck me to compare this with Hattie McDaniel’s famous quote, “I’d rather play a maid and make $700 a week than be one for $7.” For decades, she was the go-to when a filmmaker needed a Mammy-type, and so she came in for a lot of criticism during a period of rising consciousness.

    For McDaniel, though, her options really were that limited, and the quote had an aggressive quality to it that pushed that limitation in the faces of liberal America. It didn’t deny the problem, but it said to her critics that they should refocus their criticism. And in that way, it was dead on.

    But I don’t see any of that here
    (even though Hollywood would cast her in racist ways, there’s still better roles out there), and the comparison makes the hollowness of Bai Ling’s quote more salient for me.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 9:55 am ¶

28. Leon wrote:

    @Irene
    For me, I just get frustrated and give up. No matter how hard you work at social awareness, there’s always some Asian loser like Bai Ling screwing it up for everyone. That’s why stereotypes are invincible. You can have a thousand people trying to fight it, and it just takes one sellout to revive it and destroy whatever progress you managed. And given the number of white worshiping losers in the AA community (I think we have serious self-esteem issues), it’s a losing battle. Better to just save your energy and go live the good life.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 12:58 pm ¶

29. Invasian wrote:

    Looks like a pretty typical Hollywood pile of shit.
    I am sure some Asian actors take demeaning or stereotypical roles because that is all they are offered and they need the money. However, if they completely brush off the whole race-aspect of it like Bai Ling does, well, then they help bring all Asian-Americans down.
    Boo to that, boo to her.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 2:28 pm ¶

30. Pablo wrote:

    “I don’t consider myself an Asian actress or an Asian American actress.”

    ====

    Sadly for you Bai, everyone else in the world sees you as nothing much more than that, a reducible unit to manufacture a stereotype on a conveyor belt. So little self awareness.

    I have an actor friend who is British Indian. Well, he’s on the verge of quitting because of the roles he gets offered, he just finds them too humiliating, and is convinced he’s not being paranoid, but that mainstream society really does stigmatise and demonise by reduction. He’s a good man, and has been doing some writing and is on the verge of a breakthrough with his own work.

    That’s what happens. Some minority actors can’t take it anymore, they can’t take being nothing more than mannequins for (usually) middle-aged middle-class white mens visions of other people, and it generates enough energy to write themselves and try to kick against that.

    And then there are the Bai Lings of the world.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 2:39 pm ¶

31. kamala wrote:

    Poor Bail Ling: I see here a lot of baggage being piled onto that pretty head–in addition to the baggage of history that she’s already saddled with, just by being Asian.

    A lot of the comments here betray a bias, too, against the baser levels of popular culture, ie, low-brow action and crime flicks. I have heard avant-garde artists and writers say very similar things about not wanting to be pigeonholed into an ethnic or gender category, yet nobody upbraids them for not carrying the flag of their people.

    One example is Shahzia Sikander, Pakistani-born artist that did her MFA at RISD, now lives in US. She was highly trained in the meticulous miniature painting tradition in Lahore, and uses South Asian imagery extensively in her work. Yet in interviews she has repeatedly said she does not want to be categorized as an “Asian-American” or “Pakistani-American” artist (I think she may now have US citizenship). But because she won a Macarthur genius grant a coupla years ago, I bet few would scold her for making such statements.

    Bai Ling is unlikely to gain such high-brow institutional awards, and will thus remain exposed to those from the teeming masses who will enjoy the exploitation, and those in the educated sphere who criticize her for it.

    She cannot win.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 6:07 pm ¶

32. Lxy wrote:

    @ Irene.

    I hear what you are saying about Asian American suffering from the Bai Ling “I don’t think of myself as Asian” syndrome.

    But I was saying that many Asian Americans do–or should not–see *Bai Ling* as Asian American. In fact, she herself would probably welcome that.

    I personally would be happy if she and other “I’m not Asian” people turn in their Asian American card post-haste. That is what they want anyways.

    I often wonder, though, whether it’s fair to ask minority individuals (whether it be gender, sexual, racial, etc) to be extra progressive or thoughtful just because of their minority status. If Bai Ling (and I feel ridiculous even talking about BL at all) or any other AA doesn’t want to take a stand for or try to represent or give voice to AAs, why should they have to, especially if their job or income or status depends on their silence?

    There are many Oriental Americans in the world.

    It is always much easier to mindlessly follow and accept the White worldview and value system–no matter how perverse or racist they are.

    There are not a few “minority progressives” who evidence this behavior as well. See the Democratic Party and its grassroots supporters.

    In America, the only thing that counts after all is POWER–not justice.

    Ultimately, these people can do what they want, but when their actions impact Asian Americans in a negative manner, they had best be prepared to answer for those actions.

    If they pimp for a racist White America, let them also be held to political account for that support.

    In Bai Ling’s case, she is more than willing to take these racist-sexist Hollywood roles for the right price.

    So if she takes the money, power, and fame, she should also be willing to take the scrutiny and heat that comes with those privileges.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 6:30 pm ¶

33. G.K. wrote:

    @Lxy

    I agree with kamala—to hold Bai Ling responsible for the negative stereotyping of AAs is really putting too much of a burden on one person—considering how long those negative stereotypes have been around in modern media for people of color in general. I went on the messageboard for actress Lucy Liu and posters there take her to task for doing the same thing (even though, in her case, she pretty much seems to avoid stereotypical roles as much as possible and has become a producer herself—I happen to like her as an actress too—she usually plays strong, interesting in-your-face characters). Even if Bai Ling decided to quit taking anymore stereotypical roles today, would that stop Hollywood from putting out stupid stereotypical roles for Asian-Americans on the screen? Sadly, no it wouldn’t. As someone who’s watched all different types of Asian cinema (and Asian-American independent films) for years, I quit watching for any regular accurate portrayals of Asian-Americans in Hollywood years ago (or any other portrayal of folks of color,period.)

    But anyway, like some previous posters have said, an actor’s got bills to pay, just like everyone else.

    Posted 09 Apr 2009 at 8:52 pm ¶

34. Lxy wrote:

    @ G.K.

    Bai Ling is responsible for the racism/sexism that she personally promotes through her movies.

    The excuse that she “has bills to pay” is ridiculous and pathetic.

    Bai Ling is anything but poor. She is quite rich and enjoys a privileged way of life that most people in the USA and around the world could only imagine.

    This is a direct result of her career choices.

    But, apparently, it ain’t so politically correct to bring up these issues.

    Somebody should start up a charity fund for poor millionaire actors and celebrities who have suffered the great trauma of being criticized on the internets.

    Posted 10 Apr 2009 at 12:15 am ¶

35. Irene wrote:

    @Lxy

    “There are not a few “minority progressives” who evidence this behavior as well. See the Democratic Party and its grassroots supporters.”

    Could you clarify or elaborate on this statement? I’m not sure if I understand what you mean.

    “If they pimp for a racist White America, let them also be held to political account for that support.”

    This is a great way to put it.

    Thanks for your response!

    Posted 10 Apr 2009 at 2:05 pm ¶

36. Lxy wrote:

    “There are not a few “minority progressives” who evidence this behavior as well. See the Democratic Party and its grassroots supporters.”

    Could you clarify or elaborate on this statement? I’m not sure if I understand what you mean.

    I think some minorities who support Democrats are not much better on issues of racial equality or empowerment than minorities who support the Republican Party.

    Democrats play the progressive good cop to the conservative bad cop of the Republicans, but ultimately they serve the same basic political interests.

    Posted 11 Apr 2009 at 7:55 am ¶

37. Madworld22 wrote:

    @Leon

    “No matter how hard you work at social awareness, there’s always some Asian loser like Bai Ling screwing it up for everyone. That’s why stereotypes are invincible.”

    Wrong. Stereotypes are invincible because people are racist. We see what we want to see. The ‘white’ I assume, producers are smart enough to know that asians who don’t act like ’so and so stereotype” exist, but the bottom line is they don’t care because being putting another race down is funny to them and to the mass public. That’s why you continue to see movies like this.

    Bai Ling is a just another pawn to fall for the ‘game’. Just ignore her, live life and she’ll end up a broke and forgotten by everyone like every other loser actress hollywood…Lindsay Lohan anyone?

    Posted 11 Apr 2009 at 1:38 pm ¶

38. Nate wrote:

    There was an intersting post the other week, by mdot, which raisees some similarly hard points. Like everyone pratcicing in the arts without an other income stream, at some stage, has to get paid.

    Now, the level of just plain hate coming through on this thread (and mocking of mental illness) is, a little scary…

    As a though experiment I’m just wondering if some of the posters would be that vehement (’self hater’, ‘mentally ill’ ’sellout’/whore) if

    a) BL was not Asian-American
    and b) BL was a man.

    This doesn’t seem like a safe space to me.

    Posted 14 Apr 2009 at 8:38 am ¶

39. pololly wrote:

    @Nate

    Co-sign

    @Leon

    Dear Leon,

    As a black person, I find that people who spout this much venom when attempting to police the behavior of other minorities, (while erasing the role of white people and an external power structure) they are generally so self hating, they could teach a master class. This is pretty ironic given your protestations.

    The idea that racism and stereotyping would disappear if errant minorities just ‘behaved’ is a lie dangled in front of every group through history as a way to divide and conquer. It is also racist. Why should the behavior/fate of a minority group be judged by every member as if it were a monolithic entity? Why is the responsibility on the minorities to disprove stereotypical notions rather than on everyone else to change them?

    Lxy reinforces this with his/her comment. ‘Minorities’ are no better on one side or the other – always putting the burden on the minorities to sacrifice and change.

    Congrats guys

    But yeah, it’s Bai Ling pimping for racist amerika! *log in own eye criticising speck in other’s eye ftw!*

    Posted 14 Apr 2009 at 9:13 am ¶