Your Sex Acts–And Partners–Aren’t Uplifting the Race

By Sexual Correspondent Andrea Plaid

My gurl S., who followed the Justin Timberlake/Ciara post and thread very closely, just about fell out while we talked on the phone.

She was apoplectic over Timberlake pulling Ciara’s chain in the video, of that salient image of BDSM (and possible race play) as well as the article about race play I linked to in the comment thread. Too through, she told me she “had to get up from the computer when I read about race play.” “I mean, I knew about it, but I never read about it in detail. I just can’t believe it!!”

“I know,” I told S. “I know.” ‘Cause I’ve heard this reaction to race play before. Talking to another blogger, she flipped out pretty bad about it. I had to calm her down by saying, ‘I feel you. Personally, I think of race play and, yeah, I feel the body memories of slavery, too. And, yeah, I even felt a negative undercurrent in Hernandez’s piece, one of ‘This isn’t uplifting The Race!’ But, S., I’ll tell you what I told the blogger: the reality is–whether we like it or not–people are into it.”

“And, I added, “you can’t flip out about race play [with the Racial Uplift] argument because some folks can use the same argument about your liking anal beads: ‘The slavemasters–and white men–have stuck all kinds of objects into us to violate us. Why would you want to do something like that? That’s not uplifting the race!’”

S. got quiet. “Yeah, you’re right.”

Unfortunately, this argument gets whipped out among people of color when a PoC steps out of sexual line of “acceptable” sex practices and partners, especially in a public space, like Ciara did in her “Love Sex Magic” video. On the thread from the other day, she gets “read” as a slut corrupting the youth or a victim of the patriarchy or both. Some of the comments:

“Ciara is clearly desperate…her albums aren’t selling like the execs thought they would…in sense she is a slave…so the video is perfect fit.”

“The video is way sexualized to a point that’s unnecessary…My issue is with the fact that Ciara chose to go so far that she came off as tacky.”

“I don’t know that I’ve witnessed this much (grand plié in 2nd position) crotch, thigh waving and close-up butt rumbling by non-brown bodies in a music videos of late…She is dancing around and below him, she is an armrest for him, she is performing for him (and us – not an essentially bad thing, but a thing I’m keeping in mind) . . .”

“Ciara tends to be very sexualized in general. Did anyone see her performance with Chris Brown at the BET awards? This is how she markets herself…But I feel Ciara’s video is too sexual, and I blame that all on her. We need to start making women accountable in these situations.”

“I think the portrayal of Black women in general, rather a Black rapper or rip-off artist like Justin Timberlake, is discraceful no matter who does it. We have girls and boys, Black, white, latino, asian, in middle school watching this crap, and thinking this is how men and women act, and women should have to get half naked to get status while boys have to be immature, crass, and disrespectful, its alienating to the self and destroys creativity. What ever happened to convincing and natural sexuality?”

“I find it hard to believe that a lot of people can read Ciara’s performance in this video as one of powerful female sexiness. She goes out of her way to get his attention, performs for him, and is used as an object by him. Given the music industry as a whole and the way it has a double standard for the sexualization of men and women (cool vs. sluts) I think this plays into that mentality. The girl is suppose to do whatever to get the cool, calm, collected man. If that was what she was going for Epic Fail, she only reinforced the sexist mentality of the music industry.”

“I’m more interested on why so many sisters are willing to go along with this stuff. Our ancestors had no choice in the during slavery and Jim Crow. These wom[e]n can’t say the same. Why are so many women of all color willing to be treated like this by men of all colors? Men who do it are disgusting, but it’s the women I don’t get.”

“It is the idea and practice that women have to be overtly sexual, in a way that is geared towards the male gaze, in order to sell records…As someone mentioned up thread, Ciara’s not been shifting the units, hence the increasingly sexualised videos…It’s not like we even get a nuanced version of sexuality, it’s always “I am sexy, don’t you want me? I want you to want me?”…Finally, what message does it send out, when even someone as successful as Beyonce feels the need to behave like a Video Girl whenever Jay Z is in her videos?”

“As for Ciara and Janet-both “grown women”-give me a break. You want to know all the women who-as “grown women”-refused to be sexualized in their own video and still made it?”

And not only is Ciara a “slut” and/or “victim,” she’s a racial amnesiac. Or folks were done with the BDSM and/or race play imagery in general:

“A WM with a chain around a BWs neck, our ancestors are crying inside.”

“From the piece the Cruel Secretary linked: “White master seeking black slave, however, seems the more popular of the combinations. ”::: re-reads sentence:::“White master seeking black slave, however, seems the more popular of the combinations.”::: rubs eyes and reads sentence again, aloud this time:::
“White master seeking black slave, however, seems the more popular of the combinations.
::: folds top lip into mouth:::
::: quietly exits internets:::”

I need to work this in reverse. First of all, let me grapple with BDSM, race play, and racism.

And I’m going to work it like this:

1) All slavery isn’t wrong. There, I said it. And I mean it like this: nonconsensual slavery—the taking and owning of people and forcing them work or do whatever else the slaver wants, i.e. American slavery—is wrong because the slaver is making the enslaved person/people do this against their will. However, in a BDSM (bondage/domination/submission/sadism/masochism and their various combinations) usage, “slavery” isn’t wrong because the arrangement is agreed upon and that consent is continuously talked about and negotiated. As stated at Center of Human Sexuality’s (CHS) sexuality.org:

Modern BDSM is premised on consent — informed and freely given. The word “consent” is so fundamental to BDSM as it is practiced today that there are a large number of tools, vocabulary, and customs available to ensure that activities that are nonconsensual do not occur.

What happened in, say, American slavery of Africans isn’t the same thing happening when Justin Timberlake, an individual white man, is pulling on Ciara’s, an individual Black woman’s, dog chain. The Black folks who got hauled over during that slave trade didn’t give white folks permission to put us in chains and drag us to the “New World.” Ciara and Timberlake negotiated—again, the core BDSM idea of consent–that particular part of the video. He’s also not standing as a proxy for all white men and their enslaving fantasies no more than she is a stand-in for all Black women wanting to be on a lease. Nor is either one giving people permission to assume that all men can and will go out and do this to all Black women. Every thought need not be acted upon. And, of course, not every word means the same thing in every situation. 

2) Just because the white guy’s doing the yanking doesn’t mean he’s in control. In BDSM—and in race play–the “top” (“the person leading or initiating the BDSM activities” says CHS) can do no more than what the “bottom” (“the person following the top’s lead or being done to,” according to CHS) tells or allows zie to do. Even in some memoirs about stripping, the women have stated they felt in control of the situation, of the arousal. Even though we’re so used to seeing the image (and, in some cases, reality) of White Men at the socio-economic Top and Black Women at the socio-economic Bottom, in this particular instance, Ciara originated the idea of the video and chose her musical collaborator, Timberlake, to play the role that he did in the video. And, actually, they do throughout the video what’s called in BDSM “switching”: 

Although some people are 100% top and some are 100% bottom, the majority of folks switch, at least occasionally. That is, many folks sometimes bottom and sometimes top. This can be arranged in many different ways. Sometimes partners take turns with each other. Other times, someone will only top one partner and only bottom to some other partner.

In many cases, we can talk about continuous white and male privilege and power differentials and sexual aggression and violence and, yes, we can relate various situations where all these things take place with other ones—just not in every case.
Sexual practices, like BDSM and race play, may be one of those situations…because what zie sees may not be what’s actually happening, especially with practices that are considered as non-traditional being viewed through the intersecting lens of oppression.

3) Just because it’s Justin doesn’t mean things are going to jump off. I’m not denying that Timberlake betrayed Janet Jackson, a woman he said he’d admired (if not crushed on), by letting him take the heat for Nipplegate while he went to win Grammys.And, as several commenters and regular contributors have said, Timberlake has gained his cred with audiences through displaying some effed-up race and gender politics in his videos as well, especially concerning women of color.

When we talked this video amongst the special correspondent staff, Wendi Muse commented:


 OK, yeah, this is sexist because he is fully clothed and Ciara’s role is more that of a stripper…and I have to say that Justin’s objectification of women, period, and then on top of that, PoC ladies (does anyone remember “Senorita”!?) helped him gain acceptance as an R & B singer…sounds bad, but it’s kinda the truth. If he only paraded around Britney look-a-likes, it wouldn’t help him gain that industry cred.  Having said all that, I watched the video and my first thought was something along the lines of…wow, who knew Ciara was that hot? Is she the new Grace Jones?!?!

My co-contributor Arturo says about this video, “Call me crazy but that looked rather mild, on the sexy/BDSM meter. Overall, though, I saw Justin as more prop than possessor here. The song was too bland to carry more sinister overtones.” In this particular instance, Justin may be neutralized. Which brings me to Ciara herself.

This is what one of my other co-contributors, Thea, says about her:


In the context of Ciara’s oeuvre (yes I did say Ciara’s oeuvre) I think this is just kicking it up a notch. She has always come across to me as the opposite of a submissive pop princess (like, say, Jessica Simpson). She is seriously fierce and athletic and I appreciate that there never seems to be any attempt to downplay her physicality and ferociousness. I have to say one of my fave R & B videos of all time is Like A Boy, where Ciara and her dancers basically do a Drag King routine at the end of the video. (And if you ask me, I love Beyonce, but both the song and video for Like A Boy are far superior to If I Were A Boy, B’s diluted ‘08 take on the same subject.)

Like A Boy, like Love Sex Magic, is interesting in that it really doesn’t feel like a display for the enjoyment of men. (Contrast this with portrayals of women dressing up as men that simply play into male fantasies. Think a Pussycat Doll wearing a fedora.) It feels like an expression of Ciara’s understanding of what it means to be a woman, rather than an attempt to be sexually titillating to men. Even in the Love Sex Magic video, I don’t feel like it’s for men, because it falls just outside of what is considered a sexual ideal in our culture. I think Ciara joins the ranks of artists like Mariah Carey and Kylie Minogue, where a quick glance at their vixen/sexpot/high femme/diva images might miss the depth, joyfulness and sense of fun that underscores the way they play their sexual identities. Sure from a distance Love Sex Magic looks like any other vid – some lady clad in sexy clothes humping furniture – but if you look closer, Ciara is definitely the powerhouse in this video, and she’s also far more aggressive, demanding and powerful in her poses than say, the whole Britney Spears virgin/whore dance routine. “Powerhouse” doesn’t really play into the socially sanctioned male fantasy if you ask me.

What if Ciara, in the midst of her trying to promote this single, is also offering some fantasy fodder–not a mandate or command–for some Black women to sexually express themselves? Not just dom and/or top (the slicked-back hair, sunglasses, the sky-high stilettos; the stripper who feel feels zie is controlling the arousal), not just sub and/or bottom (the chained Ciara, the armrest Ciara), but the switch (where she stands over Timberlake and then leans back and he catches her; after that they slide their hands over her body). And what if she wanted to play out this fantasy with a white man?

As Seattle Slim crystallizes in her comment: 

And to add further to the mix, I wonder how many WOC in IR relationships with white men take issue with this video? I certainly don’t. Quite frankly, it reminds me of a couple weekends at my house. Yes, we go there.

An alternative idea of sexuality meeting with status-quo becomes a battle for some Black folks and other PoCs because it’s the:

1) “wrong” kind of seduction—stripper and BDSM forwardness instead of petal-and-pearls, rain-on-the-pane smoove-jazz romance.

2) “wrong” white guy–Timberlake instead of, say, Robin Thicke (who did a GQ photo shoot with Rihanna not to long ago with an S/M-esque picture of his spank-ready hand above Rihanna’s butt or his D/S-interpreted snap of his biting off her bathing suit strap) 

3) “wrong” sex act–BDSM and/or race play instead of tumbling into said petal-and-pearls bed. In other words, she’s not behaving like a proper, uplifting Black woman.

What folks may not see in the enraged haze is Ciara and Justin are also behaving like the sexual beings that they are, including acting out a possible fantasy. In an upcoming Bitch roundtable on music and misogyny, hosted by our own Latoya, Nuyorican queer activist and academic Marisol LeBron says this about how young women may use hip-hop to explore their own ideas around sexual practices and our thundering about it:

I think they’re not really allowed to …thats the big issue…They’re demonized for wanting to be “sexually scandalous.” I think the question of public and private sexuality is crucial here. [What I mean is] You can be a freak in the sheets but not in the streets. That’s what I mean when I refer to this politics of respectability. We’re concerned with these images of women of color’s sexuality, desires, and practices being seen in a public domain. I think a lot of it has to do with hip-hop’s white consumership. Its like you need to censor yourself because white dudes are watching.”

The white dudes and the ancestors.

Using them as the justification to chastise Ciara’s—and yeah, even Justin’s—publicly played-out fantasy may keep us all intra- and interracially correct for a minute…but it also may flatten our sexual horizons. LeBron continues:

I’ve been doing a lot with psychoanalytic theory recently, and one of the main things is that people don’t know why they desire what they desire and that they often desire things that they’re not supposed to or that are not good for them. In many ways current discussions about hip hop sexuality denies basic tendencies that people as sexual beings are working through.

How do we critique the sexism without critiquing the sexual practices, though?  Perhaps with the working understanding that we can’t police Ciara’s—or Justin’s or anyone else’s—sexual desires, sexual activities, and sexual fantasies because we all may have a sexual peccadillo that’s not “correct” but gives us utter pleasure, wherever we wish to display it. Because, I’m sure, the ancestors could wag their fingers at our own versions of anal beads or, at least, our fantasies about having them used in us.

Many thanks to S., Latoya, Thea, Arturo, Wendi, Mollena, and Bianca Laureano.

(Photo Credits:  Ciara/Justin Timberlake–from lovebscott.com; Rihanna and Robin Thicke–from buzzworthy.MTV.com; Ciara–aceshowbiz.com; Grace Jones–kalamu.com)

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Interview on Race Play: Part I at The Perverted Negress on 06 Apr 2009 at 3:23 am

    [...] Plaid, aka @CruelSecretary Twittered me last week, asking about Race Play. There was a bit of a heated debate on this Justin Timberlake / Ciara video, see, and she thoughtfully wanted to find a POC into kink [...]

  2. top five: blogs « Heather and Rachel Have Feelings on 16 Apr 2009 at 4:35 pm

    [...] remember that this was  probably the most fun part of the class; who doesn’t love watching Justin Timberlake videos and then talking about them? No one! That’s a group of sociology professors made a whole blog [...]

  3. The Race™-Approved White Guys [Humor] at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 19 Jun 2009 at 10:00 am

    [...] re-reading some of the responses to the Ciara/Justin Timberlake post and extensively confabbing over brunches about it, we finally figured out that the greatest [...]

  4. Interview with The Perverted Negress at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 10 Jul 2009 at 12:00 pm

    [...] Got it. it’s the same argument [some] folks on the Racialicious threads tried to present: “Ciara and JT have declared open season on interracial kink! Those [...]

  5. Orally, Of Course: Interview with Mollena, Part 4 « The Cruel Secretary on 18 Jul 2009 at 9:28 pm

    [...] Plaid: got it. it’s the same argument [some] folks on the Racialicious threads tried to present: “Ciara and JT have declared open season on interracial kink! Those [...]

  6. Orally, Of Course: Interview with Mollena « The Cruel Secretary on 18 Jul 2009 at 11:32 pm

    [...] Plaid, aka @CruelSecretary Twittered me last week, asking about Race Play. There was a bit of a heated debateon this Justin Timberlake/Ciara video, see, and she thoughtfully wanted to find a POC into kink to [...]

  7. Your Sex Acts–and Partners–Aren’t Uplifting the Race « The Cruel Secretary on 19 Jul 2009 at 7:02 pm

    [...] Your Sex Acts–and Partners–Aren’t Uplifting the Race Originally posted at <Racialicious [...]

Comments

  1. CVT wrote:

    Nothing more to say than – great post. I’ll be thinking on this one for a while . . .

  2. gatamala wrote:

    “wrong” kind of seduction—stripper and BDSM forwardness instead of petal-and-pearls, rain-on-the-pane smoove-jazz romance….she’s not behaving like a proper, uplifting Black woman.

    BINGO!!!

  3. Tim Jones-Yelvington wrote:

    Wonderful post.

    I keep thinking about the meaning fierce femininities like Ciara’s have for some trans women of color and wonder how or whether that should be factored into this conversation about negotiating the tensions around “critiquing the sexism without critiquing the sexual practices”?

  4. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Isn’t “consensual slavery”an oxymoron? Like one of the slogans in “1984″? If it’s consensual, it isn’t really slavery, is it?

  5. LilSoulBro wrote:

    OMG thank you for this post. I was thinking along the conceps you fleshed out on your post. African-Americans have a paradoxical relationship towards sexuality. It’s always been referred or masked in code. We avoid talking about it frankly and honestly.

    When black female artists, such as Grace Jones, Janet Jackson, and I guess now Ciara try to take control of their sexuality we automatically cry foul. We either cast them out or vilifiy them. When I finally saw the video I honestly didn’t like it, but I understood where she was going. And if she thought up the concept herself then I respect her because she was willing to take a risk. I just hope for the next few videos she will take more a page from 80s Grace Jones. Now that is an analysis I would like to see on Racialicous.

  6. socgrad wrote:

    Your argument is well taken and I may be missing something here…but this video is for mass consumption.

    The vast majority of people watching this video are not going to know about the nuances of BDSM or race play to understand that the bottom actually runs the show or that a slave is not always a “slave” (Especially not the teenagers who make up the core audience for music videos like this).

    But the vast majority of people watching this video in America are going to have some understanding of the privileged position of white people, the disadvantaged position of black people, the history of oppression and exploitation of black people and the history of sexual violence towards women.

    Lacking an understanding of some of the deeper meanings you discussed in this post, most people watching this video will see it primarily as a glossy re-enactment (and ultimately affirmation) of sexual exploitation of black women. This is what’s so disturbing.

    It’s not just about what people in the know take away from a video like this, it’s also about what people who are likely to never think reflectively about the video will take away from it.

  7. deathblossom wrote:

    I do think there’s a double standard applied to men versus women, and good girls versus bad girls, but to me, I don’t particularly care for the video because it’s tired and old. Ciara may not be a stand-in for all black women, but um…who’s standing up besides her and the artists like her and still getting recognition? Getting deeper into queer space as I’m trying to find my place somewhere and with someone, there seems to be this constant bemoaning about how being sexual, feminine, and ‘risque’ is seen with disdain and I look at Maxim or any other number of videos on television or magazine articles and I’m like, “Are you serious? What you’re doing is the norm. What you look like is what people want”. I’m not a stone butch by any means, I guess you can call me a lazy femme (obviously female without trying to cover it up or enhance), I don’t really care for the terms or the obsession with them, but to me, it’s something that’s extraordinarily dependent on being blessed with good lucks and the means/time to live out your fantasy, so it really bites when people go around chastising folks for putting a “leash” on their sexual activities as if we all have the same power and access as you to even be able to do that voluntarily – and as if we should all embrace your lifestyle (it tends to come off as we’re more enlightened and progressive than you). I mean, it goes both ways and we do a lot as this article pinpoints. It’s really just something that’s been bothering me in my own community.

  8. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @Rob Schmidt–Like I said,

    However, in a BDSM (bondage/domination/submission/sadism/masochism and their various combinations) usage, “slavery” isn’t wrong because the arrangement is agreed upon and that consent is continuously talked about and negotiated.

    In that particular sense–not in that social-violation sense that we usually associate the term–is where “slavery” becomes about consent.

  9. CrzyCatDC wrote:

    All I can say….Great analysis! Way to look under the surface of the reactions. Now I need to see this video.

  10. JC wrote:

    Which is worse – to be sexualized fetish like Ciara and Asian women in general, or be treated as asexual like Asian men and black women in the past?

    Why is it that our sexual fantasy all hinges on the sexual preference of white people? Whatever color the white boys prefer is the fetish of the day, and black men is sexualized since day 1 due to, well, sexual fantasies of white women (and insecurity of white men I suppose). Can I live in a world where sex and fantasy is not dominated by whatever perversion exists in the hearts and minds on White people please?

  11. Lola wrote:

    I agree with socgrad. This is a video that will be viewed by a public that does not have a Ph.D. in sexuality!

  12. Seattle Slim wrote:

    Very good post! I really enjoyed the breakdown. I do disagree with putting Grace Jones and Ciara in the same group though. Not to say Ciara could not ever get to that point. I just think that Grace is on a completely different level.

    I also agree with socgrad. There are some people that can pull it off and others that can’t. I just don’t think this video was for Ciara, kind of like how I’m glad Mary J. Blige didn’t record “Umbrella” and Rihanna took it. It’s just better that way.

    For Ciara, I would’ve kind of stuck to the title of the song for the video. I think of Robin Thicke’s own video for “Magic”. A cool video with some special effects for Justin to disappear, reappear, turn into something, teleport somewhere else…stuff like that.

    Perhaps instead of the strip club, it could be a campy video with an ill dance routine at a “magic show” where instead of her being the assistant, he would be the assistant. She could’ve worn a tux with tails and a top hat, uber feminized for femme fatale appeal. BUT…that’s just me and my mind lol.

    Now, Grace Jones in this video as it were? Fierce because Grace exudes sexuality without even trying. It’s in every fiber of her being and we would not be having the discussion as to whether or not she was being dominated or not. I heart Grace.

  13. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @Lola and socgrad–
    I’m not trying to be glib or dismissive when I say this–and I apologize that what I’m about to say may indeed come off as such– but…

    It doesn’t take a PhD in sexuality to understand BDSM.

    The reason I wrote this piece is for those folks w/out it and, furthermore, to add another perspective to what they’re watching on this video.

  14. Fiqah wrote:

    @AJ: Awesome breakdown. WHOOT!
    @JC: Help me out. At what point in American – indeed, global – history have Black women been viewed consistently as asexual?

  15. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @JC -

    Why do you keep drifting into binaries with your thinking? Most of the time, these things aren’t either/or scenarios.

    Is this sexualization any different if Ciara had someone else in the video besides JT? If it was, perhaps, Neyo? Or 50 Cent, who she’s been linked to romantically in the past?

    Is it playing to a fetish if it’s something you want to do rather than something to please your partner?

    Is Ciara performing for the white male gaze or is she performing for a specific male who is white?

    And, most important of all, if your actual desires overlap with an existing stereotype or fetish ascribed to your racial group is it your responsibility to deny yourself pleasure?

  16. Tami wrote:

    Thanks for this, AJ. I watched the Ciara video several times and couldn’t make myself be offended by Justin Timberlake’s role in it. It DOES offend me that female music artists have to be sex objects in a way that men do not to gain success. That acknowledged, in this video, Ciara seemed to be portraying a strong and dominant sexuality. SHE seemed to be the one in control, owning her sexuality. It sucks that black women aren’t allowed to own our sexuality or be sexual for fear of being seen as stereotypes.

    Also, where does the line between normal sex play and sexism/racial dominance begin? Is it wrong for any man to smack a woman’s arse, even with her consent? Is it wrong only if the man is white and the woman is black? What about all the black women who like an ocaisional spank? Must they deny themselves in order to 1) uplift the race, and 2) uplift their gender? Do they have to wait for a black man to do the smacking, lest their turn-ons be mistaken for sexual subjugation?

    Fiqah–I don’t mean to answer for JC, but asexuality is one side of the black female stereotype. We are seen as Sapphires and Jezebels, yes, but the Mammy stereotype is equally strong. And I think, as images are presented by the white mainstream, generally the stronger of the stereotypes. For instance, on the big and little screens, black women are never the beautiful, sexually desireable love objects. We may be the asexually, sassy, wise friend, though.

  17. Deena wrote:

    I really liked this post. TCS, I hope you post more like this!

    Female sexuality, and particularly that of WOC, is so dense, personal, complicated, contradictory, policed, etc etc etc. I wish I had more thoughtful comments, but I’m still digesting this great essay.

  18. Kandeezie wrote:

    Thank you, Latoya, for taking a position. Great analysis. And while I wouldn’t have gone there naturally, I can see the validity of your argument and agree with the perspective in that there isn’t just one. We should know this already, but we don’t practice it much. Anyone that strays from the dominant thought is told to step back in line. Sad, but true.

    This post is thought-provoking.

    Mod Note – Just to clarify, Andrea wrote this post. – LDP

  19. Kandeezie wrote:

    Ooops! It wasn’t Latoya. So my apologies. Thanks to Andrea Plaid.

  20. Persia wrote:

    I had a lot of mixed feelings about the earlier post I couldn’t articulate, and TCS, I think you pinned a lot of them down. I’ve got to check out the video now and see what it looks like in this framing.

  21. A.D. Nix wrote:

    Re: “I don’t know that I’ve witnessed this much (grand plié in 2nd position) crotch, thigh waving and close-up butt rumbling by non-brown bodies in a music videos of late…She is dancing around and below him, she is an armrest for him, she is performing for him (and us – not an essentially bad thing, but a thing I’m keeping in mind) . . .”

    I’m [i]definitely[/i] not reading Ciara as a ’slut’ here (I’m very pro sex and adamantly anti slut-shaming). I [i]am[/i] looking at this video in the context of The Contemporary Music Video (and I’m still not done there hence landing on “I just don’t know”). And there is a lot of a lot to untangle.

    It would be fantastic to have alternative representations of sexual black women and believing so doesn’t mean I have a “problem” with Ciara being sexual here in this way. I don’t see anything all that unusual about what is at work in the video. It doesn’t seem that foreign to the very accepted canon of black women being sexual.

    But I didn’t really see ‘race play’ at work in the way that I think other people have and that’s been an interesting thing to consider from the original post on (I don’t think it’s due to my own IR relationship but it could be).

    I also missed the BDSM leap. When I lived with a pro dom I went through a period of seeing BDSM at work in everything everywhere and may have now swung to missing it everywhere in everything unless it jumps from behind the couch in harness and ball-gag.

    This has all been extremely interesting reading.

    @ Seattle Slim
    “I do disagree with putting Grace Jones and Ciara in the same group though. Not to say Ciara could not ever get to that point. I just think that Grace is on a completely different level.”

    Yeah – I’ve been trying to figure out why it doesn’t seem to work for me with Ciara while with others – Madonna, Grace, (occasionally) Janet Jackson, (outside of pop) Wendy O – I’m close to sold. It could be her newness, it could be that her messaging is contradictory or that there just hasn’t been enough of it. It may be that it take a long career to make such a socially resistant point.

  22. Minx wrote:

    this is interesting. Very interesting.

    All I can say is , we have a distrubed way of looking at sex and sexuality. I wonder if it’s the cyncism.

  23. me2 wrote:

    Because I am aware of the kink subculture – I may be a little too jaded for this to shock me.

    But the video and the article did raise a question for me. Is all “play” between people of different races essentially seen as “race play” ? Certainly to some people, that’s their kink or whatever, but it’s not necessarily the default.

    On the other hand, as mentioned earlier – this video isn’t speaking to the kinky folks, nor was is necessarily made by kinky people either. But I still don’t get the vibe that was part of the message.

    But what do I know – I think she was tons hotter in the Like a Boy vid.

  24. JLC wrote:

    @ Latoya Peterson (Andrea)

    “And, most important of all, if your actual desires overlap with an existing stereotype or fetish ascribed to your racial group is it your responsibility to deny yourself pleasure?”

    Not necessarily, but it is our responsibility (to ourselves and others) to question why they overlap and whether we’re subconsciously buying into racist and/or sexist cultural norms.

    As JC said, it just so happens that many of our desires/fetishes conform to the desires/fetishes of the socially dominant white male. Shouldn’t we challenge this, rather than just attribute it to idiosyncratic tastes?

    I’m not dismissing your point, because I agree it can be true, but frequently it’s also used as a cop-out.

  25. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @JLC –

    No, I agree with you. But as the moderator of this space (and someone who has waaaaaayyy too many convos about race & sex in her personal life) I notice that the positions tend to swing like those old school scales.

    Out in the world, the most common thing I hear I as you stated – the assumption that our desires/fetishes operate completely independently from societal conditioning. So it can be quite hard when you’re trying to help a friend date someone and they are only interested in white partners and when you question why, you realize the reasons are rooted in stereotypes.

    But on the other hand, modding this space, I notice people tend to swing in the opposite direction where the base assumption is that we are all influenced by stereotypes/societal mandates and therefore a thinking/conscious POC couldn’t possibly *want* to do any of those things, knowing the racial history, right?

    It’s a complex thing, human sexuality, and while I agree that we should all examine our own habits and desires, and challenge them if necessary, the flip side is accepting that others may have also done the examination but come to different conclusions.

  26. Tracey wrote:

    Great post. the use of the terms “slavery/slave” is often one people through out to demonize the BDSM community. I know when the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force gave a Leather Leadership Award to Guy Baldwin who had written a book on being a slave, there were does who used it to accuse the LGBTQ community of racism and downplaying slavery.
    I also cosign to a great degree with socgrad. I often see imagery that could be considered BDSM mass marketed and it is often not done in an empowering way because it follows only one formula. That is of a powerful male dominating a very femme, submissive woman and is designed to play on male fantasy. It just seems that it is very rare that such imagery is actually meant to convey anything outside of the mainstream, just something a little “naughty” but still “safe” as far as not challenging hierarchies and patriarchy. Looking at the video out of the context of the music image as a whole, I might have a totally different opinion. But it’s hard for me to do that, which admittedly may be just my problem. if this video was meant to be easily recognizable as a challenge to the way we view sex and sexuality as being male dominated or even female sexuality as being *gasp* independent of just trying to get a man’s attention, I don’t think it would have been purposefully made.

  27. JC wrote:

    @ Latoya, I don’t have a problem if a person’s fetish just happen to match those of “mainstream white dude”, but my point is that that is all the media focuses on. I’m just sick and tired of everything, including something as personal as sexual preference, is dominated in the mass media by the like and dislike of Whites. I’m not for or against any sort of preference – I’m just against those prefered by Whites being the default ones – that those seemed outlandish to THEM are consiedered a fetish. Why isn’t there a white woman fetish? Because desiring them is “natural and normal” for a white guy.

    Just to act AGAINST some inner desire just because it’s what the white media denote as fetish is also deplorable in my book – it’s another response to the parameters set by the dominate white media or “cultural norm”. It’s just part of the struggle of every PoC person to react toward these things and find themselves… and I’m guessing a lot of us are doing a lousy job. Our world is dominated by struggles against these racially-based notions and practices and this is just one of the items.

  28. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ A.D. Nix
    Get your tags together.

  29. Fiqah wrote:

    @Tami: thanks very much for the step-in, I love it when we help each other out on the threads! I kinda had some sense of what JC was referring to. And I think that you are right, in terms of popular stereotypes of Black women, the Mammy figure is the mainstream’s comfortable fall-back trope.
    CAUTION: POSSIBLE THREAD DERAILMENT AHEAD
    (Sorry, AJ.)
    What I wanted to get at was that
    a.) the Mammy figure is a POST-SLAVERY creation that was conveniently re-posited – thanks to “Gone With the Wind” – in the antebellum era and
    b.) she never, ever existed.

    Mammy can therefore be read as a reassuring response to White anxiety about Black women, sexuality, and how those things challenged the White hegemonic desire structure, where respectable, desirable, and honorable women were ALWAYS White. (Remember how much she loved Mizz Scarlett…barf.) Mammy wasn’t even really based on anything except the need to deny the realities of slave master rape, sexual brutalization/subjugation of Black women during and after slavery, and the undiscussed tension that plantation sex politics created within White families. Painting Black women as asexual/hypersexual both underscores the notion of our inherent undesirability and serves to reinforce notions of acceptable female sexuality as something that only White women can have.

    I think that owning our sexuality – for all women – is something that is difficult. How can it not be in a society where the male gaze is allowed to be both lustful AND contemptuous/hateful? It’s that terrible divide that messes with all women, but Black women in particular, I think, because your options seem to be that you can be desired/lusted after…OR you can be respected. Truly powerful, evolved and “grown” women – like Grace Jones – have command of and “own” their sex, but let’s recognize that people talked about her, too.

  30. RC wrote:

    This post captured many of my feelings about the earlier posts. Thank you for writing it!

  31. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Fiqah
    This:
    “Truly powerful, evolved and “grown” women – like Grace Jones – have command of and “own” their sex, but let’s recognize that people talked about her, too.”

    . . . is definitely important to keep in mind. As well as the hows and whys of her positioning in opposition to (”safe”) peers like Diana Ross.

  32. allburning wrote:

    I’m not sure the anal beads/race play analogy is apt. There is a difference between enjoying something *despite* the bigoted connotation, and enjoying something *because of* the bigoted connotation.

    How can you reduce your subconscious racism when you are engaging in play that reinforces those subconscious attitudes? Arousal is a powerful conditioning tool. It’s our duty to try to de-condition ourselves from the racism we have been inculcated with, not strengthen those attitudes.

  33. JLC wrote:

    @ Fiqah:
    “I think that owning our sexuality – for all women – is something that is difficult. How can it not be in a society where the male gaze is allowed to be both lustful AND contemptuous/hateful? It’s that terrible divide that messes with all women, but Black women in particular, I think, because your options seem to be that you can be desired/lusted after…OR you can be respected. ”

    What a fantastic and incisive way to put it. You just blew my mind.

  34. Winn wrote:

    TCS, I knew you would bring it, and lo, it came to pass! Thank you.

    and @JC, this: “I’m not for or against any sort of preference – I’m just against those prefered by Whites being the default ones – that those seemed outlandish to THEM are consiedered a fetish. Why isn’t there a white woman fetish? Because desiring them is “natural and normal” for a white guy.”

    Cosign.

  35. ultraviolet rays wrote:

    Sexual suggestive images in music entertainment are demonized because it’s advertised for mass consmption; but what about film, video games, porn!?! As minx stated, I too think some have a distrubed way of looking at sex and sexuality. Ciara’s video was not overtly sexual imo & I don’t think it’s fair to refer to her as a “slut” being that a music video created for entertainment purposes only does not necesarily translate into real life. You really don’t know how she personally lives her life so it’s not really fair to judge her in that way.

  36. socgrad wrote:

    @ TCS

    I understand what you’re saying about it not taking a PhD in sexuality to understand BDSM, but, again, the vast majority of the audience for that video are not going to have anything but the *most* superficial idea of BDSM and race play. Hell, I’m a fairly well-informed person and pretty open minded, and I had no idea what race play was until it was discussed in the post!

    Add to that, the vast majority of people watching that video are not going to think about it at all critically, they’re going to take it at face value. Considering that racial / sexual exploitation and oppression are well established in the American psyche, this is the framework most people are going to view this video, not one based on a critical understanding of sexuality.

    Presenting media to a mass audience that plays on a cultural legacy of racial / sexual exploitation and oppression without an explicit critical angle ultimately reinforces and affirms that legacy.

  37. Betty Chambers wrote:

    Aside from stripper culture taking over an R&B video, I don’t see what the fuss is all about. Justin’s role is to play the subordinate. That’s all he ever was and is, I don’t care what black female he’s with in a video.

    I never saw him as a “white guy.” His benefits are no different than that of a white woman who sings “black”: he gets a free pass, and access to an R&B audience.

    If Ciara is playing the role of a “bad black woman” who wants to get her spank-on with a white guy, so what? Sounds and looks like fun to me.

    People kill me with these “remember-dem-slavery-days” narratives. People need to stop pretending they have a “I was there” ancestral memory of it. Knowing history and trying to live in the past are two different mindsets.

    The only goal these stories seem to have is to keep the modern day black woman in check. We’re free folks. Get used to it.

  38. Titanis walleri wrote:

    “Can I live in a world where sex and fantasy is not dominated by whatever perversion exists in the hearts and minds on White people please?”
    Move to somewhere where the majority aren’t white, and live in a world dominated by *their* perversions?

  39. Lainad wrote:

    Did anyone see that video with Rhianna and Maroon 5? I think the song was “If I ever see your face again” or something like that…….

    Anyhoo, I was waay more offended by that video than this one, even though I think that Justin is an asshat in general. In that video, I remember a scene where Adam Levine was grabbing Rhianna by the back of her hair and pulling her head backwards. I understood the context, kinda a ‘I hate you but I desire you” bullshit fantasy, but I thought that the imagery could be construed by others as a black woman only being the sexual objectifcation of this white man.

    Andrea, great work as always. I’m going to pick up this topic for Blogher next week.

  40. Ruchama wrote:

    What I wanted to get at was that
    a.) the Mammy figure is a POST-SLAVERY creation that was conveniently re-posited – thanks to “Gone With the Wind” – in the antebellum era and
    b.) she never, ever existed.

    What do you mean by post-slavery creation? I’ve been reading the Elsie Dinsmore books lately (read the first one out of curiosity, then kept reading later ones out of a sort of morbid fascination — these books are WEIRD) and there’s a Mammy character in there who seems to me to conform pretty much to the usual Mammy stereotype, and the first book was published in 1867.

  41. Kendra wrote:

    @ Ruchama:

    I myself wouldn’t view the Mammy stereotype as existing outside of American Slavery or its legacy of black inferiority and subjugation. But it is possible, given the 1865 passing of the thirteenth amendment which abolished slavery, that Mammy was post-slavery. Perhaps the Mammy was a Reconstruction and Jim Crow era creation or manifestation in the minds of people, whites in particular, of that era. But I’ve seen visual manifestations of what people imagine to be a slave’s existence. Goodbye Uncle Tom comes to mind, and that movie did have at least one Mammy figure who served a dual purpose in a strictly asexual manner. The Mammy that I recall in that movie readied young and underage black girls for white male sexual enjoyment and also took care of the white children of the slave master and mistress. She seemed a self-hating figure in the way that she scolded the young black girls as she “cleaned them up” and ushered them into their respective quarters.

  42. Fiqah wrote:

    @Ruchama: What do you mean by post-slavery creation?

    Exactly what I said (thanks, Kendra, for clarifying the year). Certain elements of the caricature existed during slavery, of course. But these elements didn’t coalesce into a single figure until after slavery. In fact, lots of Black caricatures sprang from White anxiety about post-slavery America and a nostalgia for the antebellum period. But don’t take my word for it:

    http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/

  43. Joseph wrote:

    I am such a Cruel Secretary fan. This is a really great follow up to the earlier Ciara video post AJ. Thank you.

    @JLC
    “…it is our responsibility (to ourselves and others) to question why [our sexual desires] overlap and whether we’re subconsciously buying into racist and/or sexist cultural norms.

    I am not trying to be provocative here, I am really asking this question: Why?

    I suppose everyone has a different standard when it comes to sexuality but I guess for me its like the standard for judging addiction–if it isn’t interfering with your life, it isn’t a problem. I cannot agree with the suggestion that is “our responsibility (to ourselves and others)” to assess our desires according an implicit standard. It may be important to you re: your sexuality but it isn’t for me. For me, the idea of incorporating the judgment of others into the way I express myself sexually is horrifying. I guess I don’t see an appreciable difference between the church telling me the right way to have sex and an amorphous committee of PoC whose potential judgments I’ve internalized and then check my behavior against.

    My pov is: if you are a) getting off b) not taking advantage of anyone else c) feel a-ok afterward then I do not see a problem with… well anything that is consensual between adults.

    @Seattle Slim
    re: Grace Jones.

    Cosign.

    … You gotta get outta my head. (Latoya lives there and she does NOT like to share space).

  44. JT wrote:

    @AJ, excellent post!

    I don’t have a “PH.D in sexuality,” and I do understand the ” understanding of the privileged position of white people, the disadvantaged position of black people, the history of oppression and exploitation of black people and the history of sexual violence towards women. ” that socrad mentioned, but all in all, I agree with Tami; when I saw this video I didn’t relate it to a possible allusion to slavery, I simply thought “wow, this is a kinky video.”

  45. Ruchama wrote:

    Thanks, Fiqah. This book just had so many of the characteristics that I’m used to seeing in more recent Mammy characters that I’d figured it was already an established caricature by the time it was written.

  46. m.dot wrote:

    I guess I need to get to writing , “What Does a Healthy Black Female Sexuality Look Like?”

  47. Calin wrote:

    I wasn’t aware we were discussing in absolutes. When I maintained that Ciara is not a victim, it doesn’t mean that I am embarrassed over a woman of color controlling her own sexuality.

    I just wish she (and Britney and Justin and whoever else) would do it somewhere else than MTV, which plays these videos during the day, where my young nieces and nephews can’t see it. There really is a point to where overt displays of sexuality harm children.

    I’m all for sexual freedom and expression and I don’t hold different standards for different races. But Ciara and Justin are doing this to sell albums.

    So now we’re displaying sexuality as a tool. And there’s a lot of abuse that’s come from that idea.

    Do it for yourself or do it because you love someone. But don’t do it as a means to achieve something else and definitely don’t set that example for future generations before they’ve even begun to understand what it is.

  48. gogojojo wrote:

    Thanks for this excellent post. You really pulled together a lot of my thoughts on the responses to this video.

    Personally when I am really intrigued by the rise of light kink references in popular Black women’s music videos. I am curious as to what shifts are being made so that its possible for them to have such performances.

    And I kind of like that young people of color have more access to images to transgressive sexualities and sexual practices from people that look like them. I know that when I was younger I felt like there was something wrong with me for being interested in kink subculture because all representations of it that I saw demonized it and constructed it as a white thing. I think videos like this and artists like Ciara challenge us to have more expansive conversations with our kids about sex and sexuality that don’t fit a heteronormative “vanilla” model. Which isn’t a bad thing in my opinion.

  49. elle the elephant wrote:

    I just realised that you put my comment in the post and I must say, I am flattered to say the least, but I think your missing the point of what I was trying to portray. I wasn’t attacking BDSM at all, if your into to that,good for you,to be honest, I got a minor interest in BDSM myself too.
    But thats not the subject of my post. The subject of my post, and for the many other people that posted on the original Ciara/Rihanna, before BDSM issue entered the picture, is how it seems more and more the only way for female artist to succeed, is for them to have this shallow and commercialized form of sexuality, that doesn’t feel real and feels shoved in your face and for me, I brought up the issue of how this affects young people. However, while many people who are mature know it is fake,little kids and teens and tweens, who watch most of these music videos, who don’t know what BDSM is, who don’t have a well developed sexuality, will take this video at face value without the undertones that me or you see will see this as another example of how men should treat women.
    I don’t hate Ciara, if she’s doing it because she likes it fine, she is free to express her sexuality, everybody is, and I general don’t like to judge people. However, I have realised a tendency among the third wave feminist of today, to confuse style for substance, to think that strong female character is also a sexualised character, that is not the case, and that raunchy for the sake of raunchy is good,that is not true. A person that has a defined sense of sexuality is simple a person that has a defined sense of sexuality. Sex is just one small aspect of life*, it doesn’t reflect personality,character,courage, virtue,charisma etc. Sex does not equal power. Despite what is popular believed by third wave feminist, you cannot manipulate with sex,not with anything thats important. Case in point, strippers may make alot of money, but who runs the strip joint?Most likely a man, who can fire them at will. Most women are not in control of their destiny like men are, and the third wave feminist, rather than focus on power and women’s rights, has focused on sexuality, because,well, its easier than women’s rights, and men aren’t as scared of sexuality as they are strong women. In case you haven’t notice, most of us men are not a scared of “sluts” we don’t hate sluts, we actually like “sluts”, because they don’t pose a threat to the male ego or patriarchal power structure, it is only women that use slut as an insult. Where did these third wave feminist get the idea men are afraid of “sluts”, it is strong women that don’t bow down to the male power structure men fear.

    P.S.: I am a asexual, so sex really isn’t that important to me.

  50. elle the elephant wrote:

    I went on a bit of a rant, but I suggest everyone read femal chauvinist pigs to know were modern feminism is and isn’t.

  51. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    Everyone–

    Thanks so much for the responses, some of which I’ll respond to later on today. I do want to take care of this….

    @Winn, JT, Lainard, Fiqah, RC, Persia (I may need to borrow our man Sendhil for a comment on this post), Tami, Seattle Slim, Tracey, Kandeezie, CrzyCatDC, LilSoulBro, Tim Jones-Yelvington, gatamala, and CVT–thank you so much for the compliments! *MWAHs* to you all.

    Now, Racialicious citizens, I’m going to IM a WoC who discusses race play. She’s been reading the threads here (both from this and Latoya’s posts) and, I think, she may have quite a bit to say about what we’ve been talking about here. TTYL!

  52. wendi muse wrote:

    one side note…is it at all possible for us to watch this video without thinking about the race of the performers in it? and maybe, then, is that the key to understanding the point of the video?

    when i am relationships with people of other ethnicities/races, of course i think about the differences, but then i try not to dwell on them because at the end of the day, that person is my boyfriend or girlfriend and someone whom i chose for reasons that have nothing to do with the person’s ethnic/racial background.

    will there ever be a day when we see interracial scenarios on tv without processing and overanalyzing them to the point of almost dehumanizing the people involved in them (dehumanizing in this sense means turning them into spokespeople for said role you would like for them to take…oh well bc justin is white, he is the master, bc ciara is black she is the slave, etc)

  53. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @elle the elephant –

    Female Chauvinist Pigs? Really?

    I had huge problems with that book but here are the two biggest:

    1) The book doesn’t spare a single chapter to hip-hop which is one of the largest purveyors of raunch culture around the globe.

    2) The book is overly concerned with Joe Francis and Girls Gone Wild and we all know Joe Francis doesn’t give a fuck about Asians, Latinas, and Black girls. Anyone outside of the white ideal generally won’t be seen on GGG, so making GGG the crux of the book leaves out a large swath of women.

    If you want to talk about modern feminism, I would suggest reading a hell of a lot more than Female Chauvinist Pigs.

  54. pointofagreement wrote:

    And now, the point.

    Ciara is making a mad dash for the corner cut in the public’s imagination that Rihanna won’t see again in her career, if ever.

    There’s money to be made in that corner. Money and magazine covers and product endorsements and guest appearances and television interviews and so forth.

    Or, better put, when a producer can’t get the overexposed Beyonce, he or she will reach for her understudy. That, for a spell, was Rihanna. Not any more. So the more affordable, less glamorous discount version needs to be groomed and sent to market.

    Ergo, this video.

    We’ll now in a few months if it worked.

  55. Aaron wrote:

    Okay. What is with the black and white stripes/zebra motif? Any thoughts? The Zebra suit on its own could be taken as just an animalistic thing. But throw in the shadowing (see last pic in post), striped sunglasses, and even perhaps her pantyhose (first pic), and I would think there’s perhaps more to it. Does it have to do with race? Maybe it just has more to do with voyeurism, or creating tension, by partially obscuring, and partially revealing what’s there. Maybe I’m just reading too much into it. After all, these images seem to possibly go together, all having to do with black and white stripes, but they’re all very different.

    The zebra skin jumpsuit can be read most obviously as just an animalistic thing. The shadowing I think is most easily explained as a voyeurism type thing. And the sunglasses are almost the opposite of the shadowing. First you have Ciara partially obscured, then you have her own vision partly obscured. They don’t seem to fit together into a motif that easily, unless you read race into it. What do y’all think?

  56. Kalisetsi wrote:

    I’m sure that other posts before mine may have mentioned that the magazine ColorLines had an issue a few years back (04/05??) with the cover story on race play in BDSM/fetish. Its a purple background with a sister on the cover in a black leather corset. Definitely recommend it to anyone interested in reading up on this issue.

  57. elle the elephant wrote:

    While it is true, the book doesn’t focus on Hip Hop, and I’m not a fan of girls gone wild, I think the arguments made in Female Chauvinist Pigs can be applied without much effort. Hip Hop is a male dominated forum were women are encouraged to conform to the Black male gaze. I read many books on many variants of feminism, especially womanism within the Black and non-white community. However, what problems did you have with the book?

  58. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @elle the elephant –

    Actually, no. The book was written with an eye toward white teens/college entrants and those who worry about them, not too many other people. My issue with the book isn’t that it doesn’t focus on hip-hop – it doesn’t mention it at all. I think I caught a passing reference to Snoop Dogg in the whole tome, which leaves out a lot of young women. And saying hip-hop is a male dominated forum oversimplifies the issues involved and erases the women who find their voices there.

    I read lots of feminist lit, but couldn’t find much in FCPs to apply to the girls and women I know, particularly as the idea of female sexual agency was glossed over throughout most of the work. Perhaps the women of Rock of Love Bus may benefit, but even then I’d be more inclined to recommend something about understanding the sexual self rather than indictments against sexual excess.

    Of course, there are some women who are acting out of a desire to conform to societal standards, but most narratives on sexuality and sexual behavior denote a lot more complexity than is given in the source text.

    It’s been a good while since I read “The Beauty Myth” so I would need to revisit it before making a conclusive statement, but if I remember correctly, a work like Wolf’s can be adapted for different beauty norms (particularly if presented alongside material like Naked and Yell-oh Girls) while FCP was limited to the point of being a bit self-defeating.

    Books I would recommend instead of Female Chauvinist Pigs:

    Everything I recommended here:

    http://www.racialicious.com/2007/05/14/lit-love-anthologies-and-short-essays/

    Plus –

    *Home Girls Make Some Noise
    * All About Love: New Visions
    * The Hip-Hop Wars

    And there are more things probably hidden around my bookshelf.

  59. elle the elephant wrote:

    Your completely right, I admit defeat. When I wrote that post on Female Chauvinist Pigs I wasn’t thinking things through it was in my head at the time.

  60. Kjen wrote:

    This is tricky. Basically we’re asking if the video is acceptable because it’s her fantasy/choice.
    Everyone assumed that if it were a woman/man of color in control, that the image presented would be different. But the truth is that people have many different desires and fantasies.
    With all that said, I’m going to have to go with a thumbs down on the video being read as some sort of feminist/black/sexually progressive statement. The strip club, stripper dance moves, generally dance around while Justin remains largely unengaged – traditional (male) video scenarios are all powerful images associated with male dominance.
    That’s the image. But what is she saying?
    In her song she’s basically asking Justin to tell her his desire because she can make it come true. Apparently, her man only wanted to be in the strip club that night. But, inspite of lover’s lack of imagination, those sound like the word choices of someone who is actively/aggressively participating in their sex acts.
    But the kicker is that no one is talking about the “love, sex, magic” song, they’re talking about the video, the images. So, if we were to suddenly to dub a Justin Timberlake song, but use the same video would we still be praising her and her agency?

  61. Whit wrote:

    I haven’t made it through all the comments yet, but as a biracial who is into some aspects of bdsm, it’s very difficult to find a man of color as a partner. The overwhelming majority of bdsm practitioners, at least those online at collarme or fetlife seem to be white.

    For the record, there have been conversations in online message boards that center around bdsm and the use of the word ’slavery.’ They are excellent fodder for a race bingo card. But, they are useful for finding other people who are ambivalent or not ok with the slave/master terminology.

  62. Kelvin wrote:

    @scograd,

    Isn’t that the problem? We’ve become a nation of people who hate nuance and complexity. I’m not into a lot of the hippity hoppity but I did see the video on Youtube linked in the first post by Latoya. It was normal fare too me and I did not see anything unusual in it. It was not even the most overtly sexual music video I’ve seen. I suspect one of the bigest issues a lot of Black folks have with this video and Ciara at the moment is that it was a White man who was in the video. Everything else comes after that main transgression.

  63. cocolamala wrote:

    @latoya and elle

    the beauty myth irritated me because the author would debunk all of these beauty standards and examine how they negatively impact women but then say something like “but I had [insert desired feature here], so guys liked me…”

  64. elle the elephant wrote:

    @deathblossom: What you said about sexuality is so true. I go to alternet alot, and on som message boards about sex and relationships, if anyone criticises an article or writer someone else will jump on them and call them puritan and repressed homosexual and complain about how “sexually repressive America is”. Than having the nerve to claim to be more tolerant/progressive. Yes, Americans don’t like talking about sex,homophobia is still rampant, I’ll concede that , but the only true sexual repression is only present in the south,midwest,northwest, y’know, the bible belt. The Eastcoast on the other hand, are perfectly comfortably with sex and sexually tolerant of those of different sexual orientations and fetishes. Furthermore sexual images are present in magazines,movies,tv, music,etc. To say that all Americans are completely repressed? Get real!!

  65. Fiqah wrote:

    @ elle the elephant: Blanket statements are so very dangerous. Use them with caution and restraint.

  66. Tami wrote:

    “Yes, Americans don’t like talking about sex,homophobia is still rampant, I’ll concede that , but the only true sexual repression is only present in the south,midwest,northwest, y’know, the bible belt. The Eastcoast on the other hand, are perfectly comfortably with sex and sexually tolerant of those of different sexual orientations and fetishes.”

    Elle–I’m hopped up on sinus meds, so my sarcasm detector may be off. You are kidding, right?

  67. jaye wrote:

    I think I get what socgrad is getting at.It’s not necessarily that you need a Phd in sexuality to dissect this video…but how many 13 year olds, or even 20 or 29 year olds, are going to sit down and deconstruct this video and note its nuances? When I first saw it, I was pretty disgusted. It basically looked like a white guy yanking on a chain around a black girl’s neck, and her doing sexual acrobats for this guy as he leaned on her back. I had to watch it a few times, and actually read a few comments about how there were role reversals, how this was about BDSM, how she was exerting her sexuality, before I was able to watch it more closely and see it in a different light. I do like the video, but I am a fan of nuance. But then again, when you dealing with such highly charged imagery aimed at a mainstream non-discerning audience, nuance might not be the best approach to take at this particular point in time.

    I do like the interplay of race in this video, I like how they specifically handled it. I probably wouldn’t like it in a different context. Overall, the video is sexist in the way practically every single video on tv is right now…but to say that Ciara’s not selling as well as she used to and that’s why she’s doing this…then what is Britney or Christina Aguilera or Beyonce doing? At the height of their careers, they’re still doing this shit. And I don’t think it is something particular to black women…I get that black women have had to deal with sexism on a variety of levels that white women don’t. But to look at this video and say, “Why black women?” is to ignore Britney, Christina, Pussycat Dolls, Gwen Stefani, Paris, Lindsey…the list really does go on. I really don’t see much of a difference as we go from one video to the next (as far as the mainstream goes)…Ashanti, Katy Perry, Rihanna, I think Miley Cyrus is up next. It’s just all one big blur at this point.

    And just an aside: I don’t actually mind the overt sexuality in a lot of videos, what makes me crazy is when they are marketed especially to young teens and children. I think that’s why I was never too bothered by Lil Kim but Britney just enrages me.

  68. Ashmo wrote:

    I’ll have to agree with #4 – I don’t believe there can be any type of “consensual slavery”! I mean, this whole BDSM world to me doesn’t qualify as slavery. I guess some people may phrase it like that, but to me, there is only one kind of slavery.

    Onto the Ciara video, I don’t think it was such a great idea for her to have JT pulling on her dog chain as though he was his master. In response to other posts above, I don’t see this as a way of taking control of “healthy sexuality.” It seems to be as just another way to exploit women – either Black or White. Now, being a Black woman, I definitely am not a fan of seeing any Black women being pulled on a dog chain by ANY man, let alone a White man, because I just think that portrays back to the image of Black women being the White mans slave.

    Even today, it’s hard enough for women to move up in the world (especially Black women) so for Ciara to do something like this in her music video – I just feel that it sends the wrong message. As if Black women aren’t already portrayed in a negative light, especially when it comes to music videos – “video honey’s” come straight to my mind! Knowing that he is a role model for younger children, I think Ciara could have come up with a better idea for her new video.

  69. msday wrote:

    Wow, If you ever want to see something interesting, type in Ciara is on your search engine and see what pops up. People have in the past, started rumors that Ciara was born hermophrodite, that she is a transsexual, and that she looks like a man for years. However, one thing has not been addressed and that is a common trend within the black community to label any black woman who is tall, has an athletic build or “different’ features as a “tranny.” That is RACIST as far as I am concerned.
    Having said that, if Ciara now decides to do a highly sexualized video with a white male costar, than why is she burdened with the responsibility of such a video? This womans career has almost been destroyed by other black people and now, you want her to protect black womanhood, something she was not allowed to embrace as an artist. Get real……

  70. Hibbs4Prez wrote:

    JT gets to get all freaky with Janet Jackson during family prime time hours at the Super Bowl and then gets to bump and grind with Ciara. And what comes to mind is when is a black amle allowed to “get away” with such stuff with a white female star? Try getting some black male performer doing his Timberlake act with a couple of white female stars from country music and there would be a revolt. Many black women would criticize him for doing these performances with white girls and many white guys would want to hang him. Seriously any white female performer who would do a video like this with, say, Usher could basically say goodbye to her career. The only white female who would be strong enough to overcome it is/was probably Madonna back during her peak. And she NEVER did anything like this in a video. Certainly not with a man of color.

    As for those who feel Ciara should feel ashamed where were you when Janet allowed JT to pull off her clothing during the SB? Black folks only turned on JT after he seemed to drop out of sight and let janet take the blunt of the criticism from the media. But shouldn’t black folks have been on Janet more about degrading herself like that in front of America, especially considering it was with a white male? Was that supposed to be progress? On that front black folks tended to be silent about JT’s sexual displays with Miss Janet so why would he worry about any consequences when trying something similiar with Ciara?

    “”"”will there ever be a day when we see interracial scenarios on tv without processing and overanalyzing them to the point of almost dehumanizing the people involved in them (dehumanizing in this sense means turning them into spokespeople for said role you would like for them to take…oh well bc justin is white, he is the master, bc ciara is black she is the slave, etc)”"”"”

    Interesting question. My response would be we may only find out when the IR is equally spread out. When its the white guy who tends to get all the IR action in movies and videoes (whether with black women, Asian, etc) its kind of hard to tell some folks to stop looking at things from a racial point of view. Because clearly the white men who run things don’t appear to comfortable to have their women seen getting their groove on much with anyone but other white men. That’s why Beyonce, Diana Ross, Whitney Houston, Mariah,etc can all be given movie roles in which their love interest/leading males are white. Its why movie execs and producers are considering films for Rhianna in which her onscreen love interests are white. But would they come up with film roles for Taylor Swift and have them exclusively be ones in which her co-star is a black male? Would they do that with Britney, or Mandy Moore or Shania Twain or Jewel or Jessica Simpson or any other white female singer who is considered to be desirable? Of course not. And the plantation-like message sent from that hypocrisy is simple: white men can do what they want with black women but white women are hands off to anyone but them.

    It would be nice if a site like this dealing with racial issues in entertainmnet would address this one-sided behaviour, but I won’t hold my breath. The black community has been conditioned to go nuts at the idea of a black man with a white woman on screen but to be more accepting or at least silent about it when its a white man and a black woman. Only when it seems as if the white man in question is doing something degrading to the black women is there any outcry and even then its half-hearted. So we are left with a meltdown if Denzel gets a white love interest on film but we don’t bat an eye when around half of Halle’s love interests have been white men. The black community may come down hard on Usher if he has sexy moments with, say, Joss Stone in a music video but we don’t say jack when its Rhianna with white males.

    Someone above mentioned Kylie Minogue. I recall an article on Nelly years ago when she was posing with the rapper for a magazine photo spread. Kylie was supposedly enjoying herself and the photo shoot was getting a little hot . At that point Nelly’s sister stepped in (she was a manager of his) and talked to the photographer and the editors about toning down the steamy side of the shoot. She explained that she was worried about Nelly’s fanbase of black women disproving of the pictures. Really? Was she concerned about them? Was she instead as a black woman offended herself? If so what does that say about black women’s insecurity in general? And where are such handlers for black female stars when they are doing steamy shoots/videoes/movies with people outside of their race? Must only black men toe the line? Until these types of issues are openly addressed any conversation/article about interracial relationship portrayals in the media will be incomplete and basically useless. Until we expose the double-standard and prejudice within the black community as well as in the white (mainstream) community then we are not getting at the root of the problem in my opinion. Because as this writeup and responses concerning this Timberlake/Ciara video has proven, right now we are only asking CERTAIN questions while ignoring others.

  71. elle the elephant wrote:

    @Jaye and Ashmo: Thats what I and many other posters on the other thread were trying to get at, not this BDSM stuff that most of us weren’t aware of. Thank you both for the level-headed post!

  72. The Beautiful Kind wrote:

    Brilliant! You took something that people had a knee jerk reaction and analyzed it, broke it down, and spelled it out. CONSENT is the key word!

  73. Whit wrote:

    @ Ashmo & Rob Schmidt, consensual slavery is often where the ’slave’ expressly consents to cede (final) decision-making ability to his/her ‘master’/'owner.’ In general. There are lots of variations on the theme, and lots of exceptions and negotiations take place before the people involved enter into their agreement. So, the slave wants to consider him/herself at the whim of her/his master, and the owner considers her/himself to be in total control of the ’slave,’ within the constraints of their agreement. There may be lots of constraints or none at all. Depends on the people involved.

    Personally, I find the slave/master terminology repellent, and am not willing to negotiate any of my limits, so that type of relationship is only going to suit a small segment of the bdsm population. A very vocal, obnoxious segment, imo.

  74. JC wrote:

    @Titanis walleri, sorry for the late reply, but could be there a society where people’s sexual preference is NOT considered a “fetish” if is isn’t the preference of the majority? Why is liking someone of a different race even considered a fetish in the first place? I always thought it has to do with things like feet worship, nylon play, etc.

  75. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    I actually interviewed a Black woman who speak on–and practices–race play. The trackback is to her blog. Here’s my cross-post:

    http://thecruelsecretary.blogspot.com/2009/04/orally-of-course-interview-with-mollena.html

    It goes back to my original point looking at what appears to be a racist act–or, at least, looking at it with familiar race tropes–from a different perspective and with a different purpose.

  76. octogalore wrote:

    This is a great analysis. One thing is bugging me though.

    I agree with Andrea generally about the idea of dictating acceptable sex practices being highly problematic.

    And Latoya nails it with “And, most important of all, if your actual desires overlap with an existing stereotype or fetish ascribed to your racial group is it your responsibility to deny yourself pleasure?”

    Many of the things I am into aren’t in any kind of “correct” handbook.

    And yet.

    I must admit to not being as well versed in music as many… but to my recollection, I have not seen BDSM-themed music videos in which a well-known guy of any race is playing the submissive. I’ve seen some videos in which little-known guys are in such roles.

    So in general, asking Ciara to be responsible for altering something she personally is comfortable with seems unfair.

    And yet against the backdrop in which, assuming she is comfortable with this, it happens to coincide with the societal view of women as accessory (comparatively) — or the societal view of WOC, possibly. So it’s worthwhile asking how much of her or my or anyone’s comfort levels are uninfluenced by culture.

    If the answer is “more than zero percent” then what is the mechanism by which such videos begin to reflect something more egalitarian? If there are no checks on “this feels OK to me” and “this feels OK to me” is influenced by cultural norms, that is to say, how do we know that what we are seeing is a genuine choice? And how do the norms change?

  77. Elusis wrote:

    Hibbs4Prez –
    Seriously any white female performer who would do a video like this with, say, Usher could basically say goodbye to her career. The only white female who would be strong enough to overcome it is/was probably Madonna back during her peak. And she NEVER did anything like this in a video. Certainly not with a man of color.

    You watched “Express Yourself”? Madonna, in chains, seduced by a (lower-classs) man of indeterminate ethnicity (turns out he’s British/Iranian?).

    She played with race/gender/sex in her “SEX” book and the “Justify My Love” video too, IIRC.

  78. Whit wrote:

    Kanye subjugated some famous white women in previous videos as well, just not in any bsdm-y way.

  79. Luisa wrote:

    a little late to the game, but i just want to say that this entry is a great example of the truly complex and relevant thought that is available on the web–kudos to racialicious.

    ps. there seems to be some tension between whether the video would be ok if it wasn’t primarily to be viewed by the public, specifically the white public. I find this problematic for two reasons

    1. Does this accept the idea that “educated” people who know about the history of slavery and bsdm have a greater/better grasp of the operation of power than the masses? they may have a better vocab, but enlightened racial analysis and education don’t necesarily go hand in hand

    2. if people of color are going to restrict their creative production to things they wouldn’t mind the white (teen boy) masses seeing we are going to be unable to address a lot of important topics. Our use of humor would be severely restricted. I think it would be a net loss.

  80. LaurynX wrote:

    elle :

    “Yes, Americans don’t like talking about sex,homophobia is still rampant, I’ll concede that , but the only true sexual repression is only present in the south,midwest,northwest, y’know, the bible belt. The Eastcoast on the other hand, are perfectly comfortably with sex and sexually tolerant of those of different sexual orientations and fetishes.”

    Well golly whiz, I didn’t know that if only I moved to the east coast all my problems with discrimination as a lesbian would be solved! Thanks for the tip! (sarcasm)

  81. Janine deManda wrote:

    I know I’m coming to this thread a bit late, but I just felt compelled to say something. Commenter after commenter has sounded the “protect the children” alarm, and as an auntie, a parent, AND a former child, I call bullshit. If ya’ll are concerned about these young people not being adequately equipped to critically engage media, why in the hell aren’t you helping to equip them?! Over the long term, that’d be a helluva lot more useful to them than, oh, just about anything else including turning off the damn MTV or ya know, not having cable in the first damn place. To my mind, helping to equip them includes not just helping them develop their own critical thinking skills, but also helping them exercise those skills by engaging in activism around problematic media portrayals – writing letters, talking with peers, participating in boycotts/protests, turning off the television, creating their own alternatives, et cetera.

    As the parent of an almost-kindergarten age, multiracial daughter, I already engage in limiting her access to media I find problematic {though I’m presently far more concerned with d*sn*y princesses than music videos} because I do understand that critical engagement is no panacea for the ills of racist, classist, patriarchal socialization. However, I don’t pretend that I have complete control over what she’s exposed to every moment of every day, so we also integrate conversations about problematic portrayals and tropes and stereotypes into our daily life. Sometimes that means bringing problematic media into our home, so we can experience it and talk about it together. Sometimes that means coming to terms with the reality that ALL media has something problematic worth discussing, and it doesn’t all have to be done today, but the space is there.

    Before I became a parent, I was an auntie, and my sisterfriends and I both spent/spend time having the same sorts of conversations at each age level and utilizing various tools to facilitate those conversations {including an awesome documentary from the early 90s I can’t recall the name of turning a critical lens on the portrayal of women in music videos}. Before I became an auntie, I was a kid, and my ma spent time having the same sorts of conversations with me. If we want to “protect the children”, these conversations are essential and ongoing work. They’ll be much safer when they’re well equipped to critically engage the MSM, the overculture, their sexualities, et al than when their elders are so squicked by sexual complexity and nuance that they maintain radio silence, and the youngsters are left to the not-so-tender mercies of MTV with no critical filters and no informed lenses.

    As a mixed blood, escaped working class queer freak of a variety of stripes, I’m always alarmed by “protect the kiddies” rhetoric around sexuality not only ‘cuz versions of it have been used to pathologize and/or criminalize just about every last aspect of my sexual self, but more urgently because those versions are still going strong, and they are a constant, lurking threat to the intactness of my family even in the “liberal” sf bay area, let alone in the upthread-mentioned “bible belt” which apparently constitutes, ya know, most of the rest of the country.

    PS As usual many, many thanks to the writers, including the editrix and the commenters, who make racialicious happen. I almost always enjoy reading the the comments as much as the original posts {which has been very rare in my blogosphere experience}, and I almost always coming away with some substantial food for thought. This thread was no exception.

  82. Jonothan wrote:

    REALLY LATE here. This is obviously a very thoughtful analysis, but I still think that it’s flawed.

    BDSM is a community of sorts with it’s own internal rules and mores. It often surprises people that one of those rules is RESPECT and another is CONSENSUALITY. For example—It might be a bit of a kinky power trip to strip down a “slave” to his hot pink elastic gym shorts and parade him through a crowded JC Penny on a matching dog leash. After all, it’s not illegal to wear elastic gym shorts or a dog leash is it?

    But from an ethical standpoint, one must ask about all the other people who are in the store. Is that really showing them respect? Did they give their consent to be hauled in as spectators for your little kink show? How about all the young children in the store, are they fair game, as well?

    This is why there are private BDSM clubs. Anyone who wishes to see such things can go to a prescribed location and see them to their hearts content. But it’s wrong to force your kink onto the public without first asking their permission to be exposed to it.

    Now add another layer. How about “Holocaust” Play?” You know, where people dress like Nazi prison gaurds and reinact the rape of Jewish women. Hey, I mean they’re all adults, right? So hows about turning this little spectacle into a performance art piece and doing it on the steps of the Holocaust Memorial Museum? Would that be a problem? After all they’re not real Nazi’s and the young Jewish women have all signed consent forms, so what’s the harm?

    But then you have to think of all of the Holocaust survivors and all of the soldiers who gave their lives or lost their friends fighting to end Nazi attrocities.Is it really fair to them to rebrand the imagery of their suffering and terrible loss just so a few people can get their kinks off? I mean, if they want to do it consentually and privately, that’s one thing, but doing it publicly is DISRESPECTFUL to those who have suffered.

    The same is true of White on Black Race Play. If you are personally into that kind of thing, and want to engage in it that’s your business. But when you take that imagery out of the BDSM club and broadcast it all over the world, you are exposing people to something that they may find highly objectionable. It shows NO RESPECT to those who have suffered.

    I think you are very wrong.

  83. EGhead wrote:

    I don’t want to get into a big debate about this here, but simply saying that such practices are OK because they’re consensual… isn’t gonna cut it. Plenty of consensual things are problematic, and they aren’t beyond criticism.

  84. Al_Pal wrote:

    Very interesting stuff. I wasn’t aware of this video, since I don’t watch much music tv.

    Madonna was touching on BDSM stuff in 1990, though. “Protect the children” does sound overly alarmist.

    Thanks for the provocation of thoughts. ;)