The Divine Nine And Transpeeps – A Long Road Of Understanding Still To Travel
by Guest Contributor Monica Roberts, originally published at Transgriot
I was checking out the recent story of transman Devin Alston-Smith and the drama that ensued between him and his local Zeta chapter.
It made me recall a March 2007 post I wrote in which I asked the question are the Divine Nine frats and sororities ready to accept qualified transgender people into their ranks.
Judging by some of the negative responses posted in the comment thread of that story, there’s a lot of Trans 101 education that needs to happen with some peeps in the Black Greek Letter Organization (BGLO) world. But before y’all start bumrushing the comment threads assuming I’m going to defend Devin, hear me out first.
I and many of my transsisters and transbrothers have much love, respect, and admiration for the history, traditions and the historic roles that BGLO’s have played in uplifting our race and shaping our communities. I have female family members, female friends and my late godmother who are proud members of their respective historic Black sororities. I look up to them and many of the women in these organizations as role models in terms of my own Black feminine evolution.
But what happened to Devin wasn’t cool, nor is Devin off the hook either. It’s called Zeta Phi Beta SORORITY, Inc. for a reason, and there is the reasonable expectation that if you’re going to pledge ZPB or any sorority you at least be female bodied.
I’m Monday morning quarterbacking here at this point, so I don’t know what Devin’s state of mind was at the time he was asked to pledge or any of the other stuff that went on outside of what’s documented in the article. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, there are hurt feelings and misunderstandings, and ZPB will handle their business as always and sort things out.
But if Devin was contemplating transition, there were two bigger considerations here besides himself, the organization and the transgender community.
Just like when we are out and about in the world as Black people, every one of us, whether we like it or not is an ambassador to the transgender community. We must be cognizant that our actions, for good or ill will shape the perceptions of the cisgender community toward our own. That is particularly important to bear in mind when what is known in the Black community about transgender people by some of our peeps borders on myth, superstition and willful ignorance.
If he wasn’t certain of or was still working out the gender issues, maybe he should have held off pledging until he was certain he’d resolved the gender dilemma in one direction or the other, then pursued membership of a BGLO.
Basically what I fear this has done is poison the well within that particular Zeta Phi Beta chapter and made it harder for a qualified transwoman open about who she is, who is down with, has the utmost respect for the history and mission of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. and wants to be a part of building it to pledge and gain membership in the organization. I also fear it may have a ripple effect with the other sororities as well.
I’m not selling woof tickets here. Those four sororities have over a half million members, are powerful networking orgs within the African-American community, have international reach and members in business, government, entertainment, sports, the arts and the media. When we are struggling to gain our own civil rights and fighting for respect within the Black community we can ill afford to piss off valuable potential allies.
Especially allies who proudly wear the letters and colors of those four sororities.
Yeah, we could form transgender only fraternities and sororities just as some Black SGL peeps have done in forming their own Greek letter orgs. I’d be long gone from the planet by the time those organizations and any potential one we could form could begin to amass even one tenth of the clout that those four sororities together have built up over the last century.
So since transpeople aren’t going anywhere and are transitioning at earlier ages, we are going to have situations where as part of their collegiate experience, they desire to join like anyone else these organizations. If BGLO organizations sincerely wish to get a better handle on transgender issues, there are people who are more than willing to do Trans 101 presentation to your orgs so that incidents like this don’t happen again.
If you can make room for White, Asian, Latina and lesbian women who are down with the organization to join, what’s stopping you from admitting transwomen who dream of one day proudly wearing those colors and doing their part to write bold new chapters in these organizations second century of work?
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Celeste wrote:
I liked this post, very balanced.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 8:14 am ¶
Amanda Hess wrote:
With the current gender-specific set-up of fraternities and sororities, there will always be a reason for a bigot to deny a transwoman or transman acceptance. A sorority can say to Devin Alston-Smith: You can’t join or sorority because you identify as a man. A fraternity can tell him: You can’t join our fraternity because you have a vagina and breasts.
Do only those transmen and women who have the means to undergo a full medical transition have a place in Greek life? Transitioning is expensive, especially for a college student. There’s a class issue at play here as well.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 9:51 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
I remember reading the original article. It was a complicated issue, but my sympathies were with Devin.
Sure, he could have handled things better. But to do so, he would have needed a level of of diplomacy and tact that only something like .01% of people his age actually possess. If I was that young, I know I certainly couldn’t have navigated those straits.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 9:51 am ¶
Monie wrote:
Monica,
I know that you are an activist and that explains why you are very open about being a Transperson. My question is; is it the norm for Transpeople to continue to be open about being Trans after they have transitioned?
I ask because it seems to me that much of this Sorority/ Frat thing and even Trans discrimination in general would be mostly worked out if Transpersons didn’t even mention that they had transitioned.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 11:15 am ¶
gail wrote:
This is a great post and I learned a lot. I feel inspired by the young women who invited Devin to join the Zetas in the first place. I want to believe that they saw the value in defining their own identities so broadly that they included him as a “sister.” What happened to Devin after those more inclusive and mature sorority members left is sad, but not surprising.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 11:19 am ¶
Andrea wrote:
Hi. There’s a series of things I found problematic with your article. First off, the term “transgender” is an umbrella term encompassing not just F-T-M’s of M-T-F’s, but all of us whose assigned sexes and genders are discordant (i.e. genderqueer, co-gender, agender, gender fluid, gender ambivalent, gender ambiguous, etc). Second off, the discovery of trans identity if not an all-or-nothing process. Not EVERYONE wakes up *knowing* they want/should have/need sexual reassignment surgery.. which brings me to my next point, genitalia rarely dictate whether an individual considers her-/hir-/himself a member of sexual/gendered categories. There are a great deal of male- or femal- identified trans people who are not *pre-*op, but *NO*-op. Moreover, the cisgender community rarely assigns sexual/gendered attributions based on genitals but, rather, gendered expression (how many times in the last month have *you* been asked to show someone *your* vagina in order to prove *your* womanhood (frat parties nonwithstanding)?
Transphobia is just another way that the communities of color are playing into the zero-sum game that is oppression, by further marginalizing the -already- marginalized in an effort to enhanced perceived similarities between them and those “on top”.
As a transgendered person of color, I’d like to ask my community: when? When do *I* get to be welcomed as an integral part of *my* community too?
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 11:40 am ¶
Whit wrote:
Monie, why should the burden be on the trans people to keep their transition to themselves?
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 11:51 am ¶
Monie wrote:
@Whit
You missed the point of my question.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 11:57 am ¶
Whit wrote:
Monie, you said:
I ask because it seems to me that much of this Sorority/ Frat thing and even Trans discrimination in general would be mostly worked out if Transpersons didn’t even mention that they had transitioned.
That seems to imply that trans people could avoid much of the discrimination if they don’t mention their transition, after the fact. Well, that begs the question, why should they have to refrain from mentioning it? Why can’t they be open and honest about their past and all of their experiences? Wouldn’t it just be easier for cis-gendered people to be humble and respectful and treat trans people like people?
And what then, about people who don’t want reassignment surgery? Who are ambivalent? Who can’t afford surgery? Who are just coming out as trans? All of those people are left out of your scenario on how to avoid discrimination, since they’re not going to be transitioned in the past tense, they’re doing it in the present.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 1:11 pm ¶
Monie wrote:
@Whit
I understand what you are saying and how you may have misinterpreted my question. However in my question I am only asking about people who have physically transitioned. I am curious to know if most people who have transitioned simply live their lives with no mention of their lives prior to transition.
To your point; I understand that there are people who for many reasons don’t physically transition but are Transpersons. My question wasn’t really about them.
And in regards to the second part of my comment; yes I wonder if people who have transitioned have it easier if they don’t mention that they are Trans. I also wonder if this is a conversation within the Trans community, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 1:26 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
@monie
” …Trans discrimination in general would be mostly worked out if Transpersons didn’t even mention that they had transitioned”
discrimination is not solved by erasing anyone’s identity. that would accomplish the goal of discrimination.
discrimination is resolved when people stop trying to stigmatize or punish other (free) people because they don’t fit into certain social categories. race, gender, religion, etc.
the solution to racial discrimination is not passing. the solution to religious discrimination is not conversion. etc.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 3:25 pm ¶
Whit wrote:
Monie,
I didn’t misunderstand your question to Monica. I think it’s clear that you genuinely want to know whether the conversation about how best to defeat transphobia involves some voice(s) within the trans community advocating for not outing themselves post-transition.
However, the subject of this post isn’t about trans people who have concluded reassignment surgery. So the question seems like an attempt to shift the frame within the context of this post.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 4:10 pm ¶
Cara wrote:
“If you can make room for White, Asian, Latina and lesbian women who are down with the organization to join, what’s stopping you from admitting transwomen who dream of one day proudly wearing those colors and doing their part to write bold new chapters in these organizations second century of work?”
ummmm…correct me if i’m wrong but the original article was about a transman joining a sorority….not a transwoman joining a sorority – which would be gender identity appropriate…..
I am apart of a blk sorority and though I have issues with some policies myself – the organizations are very clear (according to bylaws, etc.) of what members should wear and who can join, etc. The standards are set fromt he get go…usually. I even had to wear skirts/dresses to specific events because that was proper protocol for official business. So I did it….I can wear what ever I want outside of official business/ceremonies, but while a traditional ceremony, etc. is occurring – you have to respect the organization. It’s not about the individual it’s about the sisterhood!
This seems like another “pregnant man” story to me. I, like the author of the post, feel like Alston-Smith should have made a decision about who he was before joining a sorority. I’ve known gay women who are apart of my sorority and they love it. Even though I feel their issues are not given proper attention (gay specific such as Prop 8, same-sex parenting and couples, etc.), they joined because they believed in the principles and the goals of the organization. Plus the orgs are founded on, “Christian” principles. However, like most “cafeteria Christians” members of the orgs choose when and where they’d like to cover themselves in “religious-drag”….and that’s really frustrating. Case in point….no one deserves to be harassed! They could have just reported the issue to nationals and suspended him from the org in the time being….they didn’t have to harass him. That’s not Godly and it’s also not sisterly – at all.
The “Trans” issue is very interesting being that I’ve never heard of a man-to-female post-op or pre-op, joining a BGLO sorority. But even if they attempted that, I’m not sure if they’d be accepted by the members of the org or the national org itself. However, a female-to-male….or transman w/o surgery…joining a sorority is odd…really odd. If you identify as male, join a fraternity. If you identify as female, join a sorority. If you identify as neither or something in between – start your own organization……I know the author of the post feels that an org such as this would not have the “clout” of the original 4 sororities – it’s a start and it’s about time!
We should have a Black BGLQT – GLO! Why not?! I think there is safety in numbers, and once you have an org w / #s you have power. You have a voice. Then when you nationalize, you can rally to get a seat at the NPHC table….There are Greek orgs out there for SGL people (Like delta phi upsilon which is an org inspired by the life of Buynard Rustin) and there are notable black gay historical figures like Barbara Jordan (a beloved member of my Sorority) who was also gay! Stop trying to fit into the traditional male/female mold (in terms of frat/sor). There are plenty of ppl who want to belong to a Blk Frat/Sor but are 1. not accepted, 2. not willing to conform to the gender binary, and 3. intimidated by bigots and not being accepted. So start another org – get national backing – and turn the NPHC Nine into Ten.
This would be a legitimate sub-group w/in the BGLO community….it’s not like “wow I guess all Black Republicans/Dems, Black Muslim/Buddhists, etc. get to have a new Greek org and sit at the table too” type of thing. – That would be a bit pointless since they are already present. – But the gender/sexuality demographic is unique, b/c they face a triple obstacle of discrimination (race-gender identity-sexuality) I just think there should be a way to create an avenue for BGLTQ ppl to enjoy the sense of belonging along side all of the other BGLOs. Something needs to happen so ppl like Devin won’t have to make the mistake he did…..and so bigots wont harass ppl who only wanted a chance to belong to groups of this magnitude like everyone else.
sorry for the long response
)…
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 5:11 pm ¶
BSK wrote:
At the risk of demonstrating ignorance, when someone is referred to as a transman, such as Devin, does this mean that they are biologically female but identify as male or the opposite? I’m just trying to bender understand this situation and the terminology involved. Thanks.
Posted 01 Apr 2009 at 10:55 pm ¶
Dee Galloway wrote:
I believe that the sorority sisters are the ones at fault here, not Devin. Devin was asked by a Zeta to check out the sorority. Devin checked it out, he liked what he saw and felt a kinship with the sisters and the mission of the organization, and expressed interest about joining with the gender expression of a male. The sorority instituted the induction process with knowledge of who they were inducting. Devin could not know what he was getting into before joining the organization. He could only know what they told him.
@monie: There is no “norm” for transpeople who have transitioned about disclosing their histories, just as there is no monolithic “black community” where we all feel and think the same ways about our blackness. Some do disclose, some do not, it is (and should be) a completely individual choice. FYI, there seems to be little debate about this among the people to whom it matters most, transpeople. It seems that only members of the dominant straight culture want things to be either/or and not both/and.
To even suggest that “Trans discrimination in general would be mostly worked out if Transpersons didn’t even mention that they had transitioned” is tantamount to saying discrimination against black people would be mostly worked out if lighter-skinned black people didn’t even mention that they were black. I’m hoping that this latter strikes you as ridiculous – the former strikes many transpeople as equally ridiculous.
The sorority should Considering Devin’s youth, I thought he showed incredible restraint. The destruction of the Zeta paraphernalia was nothing compared to the beat-down the sisters could have received.
The sorority had an opportunity to become even more powerful force and they effed it up.
I feel the sorority did not “woman up” to the task they set for themselves. No Zeta was asked to “put aside” any moral beliefs. Zetas were only being asked to embrace another sister. They failed to do so and and I find that shameful.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 10:51 am ¶
Whit wrote:
DSK, usually most trans people want to be called by the gender they identify with. So a trans woman would be someone who identifies as a woman but wasn’t born into a body that fits the dominant idea of female. Vice versa for trans man.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 11:21 am ¶
Ty wrote:
Zetas were only being asked to embrace another sister. They failed to do so and and I find that shameful.
How can a person who self-identifies a man be regarded as a sister?
If any person identifies as male and dislikes partaking in feminine behavior then they shouldn’t join an organization for women. This is pure foolishness. No social sorority would allow a straight man to join them so why should this man be allowed?
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 1:08 pm ¶
Monie wrote:
@Dee Galloway
First; I’m not apart of the dominate str8 culture; I’m an African American lesbian. And I’m not advocating for Transpeople to do anything in particular. I was simply asking a question.
Second; I don’t find a light-skinned African American who is passing analogous to a Transperson not disclosing their life prior to gender re-assignment surgery. Unless your point is that a Transperson who doesn’t disclose their life prior to an anatomical change is passing?
I’m really not sure why asking a simple question has drawn such hostile replies. I have always considered Racialicious a place where one can ask questions in a safe environment. My intent was simply to gain some knowledge, that’s it.
@Whit
“However, the subject of this post isn’t about trans people who have concluded reassignment surgery. So the question seems like an attempt to shift the frame within the context of this post.”
Are you attempting to moderate my comment? I’m NOT off-topic, which is what you are implying. And worse you are implying that I’m doing so because of some sort of hidden agenda. The subject of the post involves someone who is Transgender who is or was seeking acceptance from an organization and who encountered problems because of what may or may not have been gender discrimination. So how is my question not relevant to that?
@ cocolamala
“…the solution to racial discrimination is not passing. the solution to religious discrimination is not conversion. etc.”
A Transperson who doesn’t disclose that they are Transgender is passing? Please explain.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 1:52 pm ¶
Mike wrote:
In this case, Devin and the sorority chose one-another, tried to make it work and failed. The sorority sisters felt the need police the gender identity of Devin, and Devin felt unable to compromise. Schism resulted. I started reading this article expecting this to be about a transwoman, which would seem to be the more compatible case.
In my limited experience with the greek system, it seems strict gender identity is a primary component of it. Fraternities, anyway, seem to be about instilling gender identity.
Segregation or sanctuary… Is there such a thing as right to have a sanctuary for heteronormative heterosexuals, or is that just segregation, or another example of the proverbial White Entertainment Television?
Complicating this is the networking angle. Black greek organizations are groups of some power w.r.t. jobs. The argument for abolishing white-only or male-only spaces was that they tend to concentrate existing power. Can a similar argument be made for abolishing heteronormative spaces?
OK. My point of view is that we all have a responsibility to create neutral public spaces such that society can function, but, people that freely associate with one another in private space can require conformity to whatever philosophy from one-another. I see universities as public space, but, fraternities and sororities as private space that can require of its members heteronormativity, heterosexuality, conformitity to a politicial ideology, or conformity to a religon. I’m not saying that they *should*, but, I will back their right to do so.
But that wasn’t really the issue on the table. The question is how and when will it not be an issue for a transwoman to join a sorority. I guess when people are comfortable with the idea that association with trans isn’t in any way threatening to one’s own cis-identity.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 2:07 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
@monie,
no, it is not the same as passing, but ppl do ask the same question in terms of resolving racial discrimination.
i have heard the statement phrased as “in the future there will be so much racial intermixing that everyone will ultimately be brown…then racial disccrimination will end” (hell, i have even had that thought myself)
except that it wouldn’t be the end of racial discrimation. in the “beige future,” if a dark skinned person were to be born (which totally could happen given the varying hues evident in african american [and also hispanic?] families), they still would run up agains ppl prejudiced against dark skin.
everybody is not going to be beige, and every transperson is not going to be able to [or want to] hide their trans identity. anthropology shows that there have been trans ppl [and dark skinned ppl] since the beginning of humanity. it is very probable that there will continue to be.
what needs to change is not how trans people identify themselves, but folk’s attitudes about living among trans people in society. imho.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 4:15 pm ¶
brownstocking wrote:
Zeta is a private organization, with specific guidelines/rules/rights of entry. Devin knew that going in. Honestly, if the transcript thing is true, he should never have been initiated. Was it convenient? Probably. Was it right? Not my call.
There is a Queer Black GLO, there are quite a few local QGLOs throughout the country. Maybe they will work together and create a viable nationwide network. Power to them!
As a member of a sorority, I am mixed about the ideas of making substantive changes to our principles. Yes, we are flawed in how we respond to several civil rights issues, but these are voluntary orgs, and people should know what they are getting into before entering into a process. I’m torn.
I don’t know when/if GLOs will be ready to accept transpeople. I don’t know. I don’t even know how such a campaign would be started.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 4:54 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
@mike
…but, people that freely associate with one another in private space can require conformity to whatever philosophy from one-another
your points in this paragraph bring to mind parallel issues involving country club discrimination. women and minorities are able to be excluded from membership sometimes, and sometimes not.
is there some analogy here?
like, i’ve seen country club arguments where women are able to show that business deals were taking place behind club doors that barred them but allowed their male peers access.
on the other hand, if i recall correctly, one of the GOP members running against michael steele was a member at an all white country club, and this is in 2009 y’all.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 5:02 pm ¶
cocolamala wrote:
okay, those country club situations are based on public accomodation laws (like hotels or restaurants).
since individual chapters of Greek letter organizations are less likely to have a building, with facilities (tennis, golf, swimming), and a restaurant serving regular meals, are GLOs more like the Boy/Girl Scouts?
alright, i’m done, i need to let someone else get a word in edgewise
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 5:43 pm ¶
Restructure! wrote:
If I was part of a sorority, I’d accept both women and transmen because we both suffer from gender-based oppression. But I’d never join a sorority, because I think sororities are petty, elitist, and hierarchical, and I wish they’d disappear.
Posted 02 Apr 2009 at 7:56 pm ¶
Whit wrote:
Ditto everything cocolamala said in #20.
@Monie, No, I’m not moderating your comment, I’m explaining how what you said came off to me, or trying to anyway. How the subtext read. I think your question is relevant and I wish that Monica would come back and answer it. However, I didn’t find what I quoted you as saying above to be particularly relevant, and it colors the subtext of your (agenda-less) question.
Posted 03 Apr 2009 at 11:52 am ¶
Lena F. wrote:
So this is a very complicated issue that deals with the issues of race, gender, and sexuality. When it comes the Black Greek Organizations, there are many things that come into mind while I was reading this blog. First of all, the subject LGBT is still very taboo in the African-American community; it is something that our community just does not want to address. Secondly, unfortunately, these organizations have a history of mistreatment of their members, so this really did not surprise me.
On the other hand, however, no one in the story is without fault, for Zeta Phi Beta is a sorority…meaning that is is technically for females. If Devin wants to identify himself as a male, why didn’t he try to join a fraternity? I do understand the fact that there are Zetas who are lesbians, but to request that you would rather be referred to as a male, this does not say that you want to be a female. I do think that the Zetas who were harassing Devin are wrong and ignorant of the fact that we live in a non-traditional world, and people identify themselves in a totally different way than from when the Zetas were founded. If he wanted to be called by a male pronoun and be called Devin than by his real name, than there should be no reason as to why they could not respect his wishes.
This is a great example of hegemony, for the straight females are the ones who are in power and they feel threatened when one of their peers are trying to “destroy” their sorority’s history. They maintained this power when they revoked his membership. It also goes to show how Black sororities are socially constructed, for those who are familiar with the histories/stereotypes of these sororities know, you sometimes have to look and act a certain way in order to be offered membership to a particular sorority.
Posted 03 Apr 2009 at 7:28 pm ¶
Monica Roberts wrote:
I know that you are an activist and that explains why you are very open about being a Transperson. My question is; is it the norm for Transpeople to continue to be open about being Trans after they have transitioned?
I ask because it seems to me that much of this Sorority/ Frat thing and even Trans discrimination in general would be mostly worked out if Transpersons didn’t even mention that they had transitioned.
@Monie,
Depends on the transperson and their life situations in terms of the degree of openess in their life.
I transitioned in my hometown in the middle of Houston Intercontinental Airport, so ‘blending in’ was impossible for me, especially after I began advocating for transgender people’s civil rights.
Monie, we’ve already tried the ‘fading into society’ strategy. It was what WPATH required as part of our transitions and it failed. It allowed the bigots to pimp fear and loathing of us and created this vacuum of ignorance about transgender issues.
It has also played a role in 70% of the transgender people listed on the Remembering Our Dead List being transpeople of color.
Only transpeople openly living their lives and society seeing them do mundane everyday things will result in the changes we need in society.
And yes, that also includes seeing a qualified transperson pledging a BGLO
Posted 03 Apr 2009 at 8:20 pm ¶
Monie wrote:
@Monica
“Only transpeople openly living their lives and society seeing them do mundane everyday things will result in the changes we need in society.”
I totally get that.
Thank you so much for your reply.
Posted 03 Apr 2009 at 11:05 pm ¶
Zoe Brain wrote:
Technically I’m Intersexed rather than Transsexual, but Trans is close enough. I transitioned, and the fact that a natural rather than therapeutically-induced somatic change is irrelevant. My gender identity was always female, so when I looked male, I was transsexual.
Because we didn’t know what was happening during the change, it was fairly public, and extremely rapid. Not something I could hide.
Had I been given the option to go “stealth”, to conceal my medical past, I would have done so. Being out is dangerous.
Except then I couldn’t have helped those with less resources than myself, could I? So I’m not complaining. I’m an Activist, but only because I’ve been forced to be. I dislike the limelight, I’m not “Proud” of my situation. Not ashamed either.
Look, I’m just a common, run-of-the-mill frumpy and conservative female academic, happily married for nigh on 30 years, and with a young child.
Where it gets complex is that I’m actually his biological father, even though I’ve been diagnosed as a “severely androgenised non-pregnant woman”. I looked male until 2005 when puberty hit. And I’m in a jurisdiction that doesn’t allow civil unions, let alone same-sex marriages to be celebrated, so my partner being female causes some really perplexing challenges to the bureaucracy.
The legal problems have been extremely interesting.
Getting back to the original issue… in my mind, a Transman is a man, and belongs in a Fraternity. A Transwoman is a woman and belongs in a sorority. As young people are not allowed to have genital surgery, this will cause problems in many cases.
Moreover, those Intersexed people whose bodies and minds don’t fit either category should, on the basis of sheer humanity, be allowed to choose some greek society. They shouldn’t be excluded from all.
I’m Australian, and we don’t have greek societies here, so pardon my ignorance. Is a “black fraternity” strictly African-American? What about the fair-skinned red-haired adopted child of African-American parents? Or actual Africans? South Africans who are Cape Coloured, or White, or Indian? Australian Aboriginals? Would Barack Obama qualify, as he’s half white American, and half black Kenyan?
Ambiguous and problematic cases arise any time you try to put people into categories that, while they’re really good approximations, don’t cover everyone. This is just one more.
Posted 04 Apr 2009 at 4:27 am ¶
c.n.edaw wrote:
@ zoe brain
Anyone can join a black fraternity or sorority. if you meet the minimum guidelines for grades and being issued an invitation ( which they may not allow anymore due to hazing rules, someone enlighten further if you know).
These organizations were founded in the early 1900’s when fraternities and sororities in America were closed to black people.
However, while my own sorority (AKA) has welcomed women of all races –remember these are college aged kids — they might and have been known to give a non-black person a harder time joining in much the same way a traditionally (read white) fraternities or sororities might blackball girls who are not pretty and blonde, or who slept with their last boyfriend or who are not jocks or big men on campus.
I find the actions detailed a bit appalling but I admit I have no idea what I would done at 19 (when I was initiated) in a similar situation. Despite all the rhetoric about sisterhood, these groups are subject to the same pettiness, insecurity and potential for wrong doing as any group of teenaged/young girls or boys allowed to govern themselves.
Posted 05 Apr 2009 at 5:08 pm ¶