The Big Bang Theory, Nerds of Color, and Stereotypes

by Latoya Peterson

“Though you do add some much needed cultural diversity to an otherwise homogeneous group, your responses to [The Friendship Survey] were deeply disturbing.”

—Sheldon to Rajesh, The Friendship Algorithm

A few weeks ago, I discovered a new favorite show to watch. My boyfriend has been a How I Met Your Mother devotee for the past couple of years, and tends to always make his way to the couch around eight-ish on Monday nights.

One night, I was working in the bedroom when I caught an errant nerdy reference.

Oh, love! A discussion of the physics involved in Superman with a comic book reference challenge at the end? Be still my heart!

The next time I wasn’t paying attention, but I was in the living room, so I caught the reference that changed my life:

Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock. Genius!

But as I continued watching, a little nagging thought started interfering with my enjoyment of the series:

So, we only get one nerd of color?

I shouldn’t be surprised – after all, I’m getting adjusted to the idea of “white” New York, that mythical area where Friends, How I Met Your Mother, and other shows take place among a bunch of white people who only come across people of color when they need a one-episode love interest or some cultural comic relief.

Kunal Nayyar plays Raj Koothrappali and, surprisingly bucking trends for designated friends of color, he’s been in every episode of the show thus far. And yet, only five episodes mention a subplot involving Koothrappali – “The Middle Earth Paradigm,” “The Grasshopper Experiment,” “The Pork Chop Indeterminacy,” “The Peanut Reaction,” and “The Bad Fish Paradigm.” “The Griffin Equivalency” (which I haven’t seen yet) appears to be an entire episode devoted to Raj – which features him getting an inflated ego because of being featured in People magazine.

The Uberdesi blog lets me know I am right to be skeptical about the characterization and development of Rajesh’s character. In “The Grasshoper Experiment,” Raj goes out to meet an arranged marriage his parents set up. Santosh writes:

Raj, played by Kunal, is the token Indian guy among the bunch of geeks who:
#1. Has a thick Indian accent
#2. Walks around with his 17″ Macbook Pro
#3. Is afraid to speak to women

Just when you thought the cup of generalizations overfloweth, we also find out that Raj’s parents are trying to arrange his marriage. Get it? Indian geek. Arranged marriage (#4).

Which brings us back to Raj’s role. Watching “The Friendship Algorithm” episode and hearing Sheldon openly acknowledge that Raj brings the group “diversity” struck a chord in me. Not just because of the television representation aspect of this, but the fact that things like hyper-intelligence, fandom, comics, and other bastions of nerdiness are automatically the realm of whites. I’ll write about this a bit more when I talk about otakudom and cultural appropriation, but there’s an interesting assumption that plays out that fans of nerdiness/nerd culture are white or are exceptions (despite all the evidence to the contrary.)

The NY Times Magazine Idea Lab published a piece by Benjamin Nugent on nerdiness being linked to whiteness in 2007, drawing some odd conclusions:

Though [linguist Mary]Bucholtz uses the term “hyperwhite” to describe nerd language in particular, she claims that the “symbolic resources of an extreme whiteness” can be used elsewhere. After all, “trends in music, dance, fashion, sports and language in a variety of youth subcultures are often traceable to an African-American source,” but “unlike the styles of cool European American students, in nerdiness, African-American culture and language [do] not play even a covert role.” Certainly, “hyperwhite” seems a good word for the sartorial choices of paradigmatic nerds. While a stereotypical black youth, from the zoot-suit era through the bling years, wears flashy clothes, chosen for their aesthetic value, nerdy clothing is purely practical: pocket protectors, belt sheaths for gadgets, short shorts for excessive heat, etc. Indeed, “hyperwhite” works as a description for nearly everything we intuitively associate with nerds, which is why Hollywood has long traded in jokes that try to capitalize on the emotional dissonance of nerds acting black (Eugene Levy saying, “You got me straight trippin’, boo”) and black people being nerds (the characters Urkel and Carlton in the sitcoms “Family Matters” and “The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air”). [...]

Even more problematic, “Nerds’ dismissal of black cultural practices often led them to discount the possibility of friendship with black students,” even if the nerds were involved in political activities like protesting against the dismantling of affirmative action in California schools. If nerdiness, as Bucholtz suggests, can be a rebellion against the cool white kids and their use of black culture, it’s a rebellion with a limited membership.

However, this idea of nerdiness being a white cultural thing ignores a few key issues.

The first is that there are some very vocal, self-identifying black nerds who also reject the race-based stereotypes associated with nerdiness and fandom and choose to embrace the nerd label. The Village Voice published an article in 2002 chronicling “The Rise of the Black Nerd.”

The second is the crushing perpetual nerd/foreigner stereotypes that Asian-Americans labor to get out from under – something characters like Raj on TV reinforce. While Latinos and Blacks are only portrayed as nerdy for extreme comic relief (see Urkel), that is often the only role available for Asian Americans in pop culture. As Carmen noted almost a year ago, the specter of Long Duk Dong still looms large as a major image of Asian American masculinity.

However, there are some redeeming qualities to Raj’s portrayal. Far from being the solo nerd representation, he is one of a geeky quartet, which actually puts him on par with his peers. In contrast to the socially inept Sheldon, the heavily stereotyped Wolowitz (more on that in a minute), and Leonard’s semi-successful fumblings with the opposite sex, Raj’s alcohol induced moments of cool come across as surprisingly suave and well adjusted in the context of his peer group. So is this progress?

In a sense, one could argue its a step forward. Raj is considered a nerd, but given a bit of a personality to play with. However, there are also some interesting steps back – the character of Wolowitz is coded as heavily Jewish as Raj is coded as a the perpetual foreigner, but with a bit more malice. Wolfowitz lives up to a great many Jewish stereotypes, including having a mother who appears only as a shrieking, disembodied voice determined to ruin any chance Wolowitz has at a normal life. Eventually, both Raj and Wolowitz find some form of redemption through attracting partners of the opposite sex (which provides an interesting twist on what Leonard’s mother termed their “ersatz homosexual relationship“), but neither comes off as a developed character the way that Sheldon and Leonard do.

Then again, I suppose that’s the fate of any side character in a sitcom.

So I guess if we are to measure progress, the question remains – would a character like Raj be able to carry a sitcom? Or better still, will Kunal Nayyar be able to land a different type of role once the Big Bang Theory completes its run?

Random – More Reasons I Love Sheldon:

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Blog@Newsarama » Blog Archive » Wednesday Linkblogging on 11 Mar 2009 at 11:44 am

    [...] on The Big Bang Theory, Nerds of Color, and Stereotypes. An interesting look at the assumed whiteness of “nerds” and of geek culture in [...]

  2. Strike up the bland. « Girl Watches Television on 11 Mar 2009 at 10:44 pm

    [...] up the bland. Here’s an interesting post at Racialicious about Rajesh Koothrappali on Big Bang Theory. H/t to my friend Angela for the [...]

Comments

  1. Ron wrote:

    I think if I watched television, I’d become very, very irritated. Often.

  2. The Opoponax wrote:

    Great post!

    As an antidote to Icky Sitcom Ethnic/Nerd Stereotype Syndrome, might I suggest getting your hands on a copy of Junot Diaz’s The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao?

    Also, I’ll say that I generally avoid sitcoms for the very reasons you highlight here. They’re so tightly crystallized into their particular niche that all you can really do is lame stereotypes. The 22-minute format probably doesn’t help.

    I’m anti How I Met Your Mother because they never give Alyson Hannigan anything interesting to do. Bored Now, to quote her.

  3. Hilary wrote:

    What these “nerd shows” have to say about gender is a little troubling too. There’s always a stereotypical “blonde bombshell” for the guys to lust after, can’t use nerdy girls get some love? Most of the “nerdy” guys I’ve known seem to go for women who actually share their interests. Not to mention the fact that a show about a group of geeky gal pals would never fly.

    Excellent post :)

  4. Tim wrote:

    There’s also the Revenge of the Nerds equation: black + nerd = gay.

  5. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Opoponax -

    I’m anti How I Met Your Mother because they never give Alyson Hannigan anything interesting to do. Bored Now, to quote her.

    Word! She’s got such great comedic timing, but they only ever allow her to play off the other chracters. She did get to shine for a second with her shopping addiction arc, but even then, meh.

    @Hillary –

    I’m actually on the fence about gender in BBT.
    On the plus side:

    *Sara Gilbert appears as a rival physicist working her way through the characters
    *Leonard was shown with Sarah Rue as a love interest, showing a slightly larger woman (TV wise anyway) as a love interest (and her size was not played for laughs)
    * Penny is actually a really complex character. She has her vapid blonde moments, but she also has other moments where her intelligence (and common sense) shine.

    On the minus side:

    *Outside of the women given speaking lines, most other women in the series are conquests
    * Women generally don’t appear in their little world and most of the mother characters have some sort of issue.

    I’m labeling gender a draw right now, though my feelings change with each episode.

  6. Lola wrote:

    Where has Kunal Nayyar been all my life and how can I have his children?

  7. Somedude wrote:

    Kunal Nayyar is actually British, isn’t he?

    The only other role I’ve seen him play was a terrorist.

    I do remember a “nerd girl” showing up in one episode, but none of the men showed any interest in her (The episode when Sheldon creates his own team for a quiz, and the rest of them have to find someone else to take his place?)

  8. Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Gurl! wrote:

    As an Indian (and Asian American), I’m not offended by Raj on the Big Bang Theory. I don’t think he stereotypes Indians at all. Hell, I know a lot of FOB (Fresh Off the Boat) Indians who remind me of Raj (or Raj reminds me of them). I like his character, I think he’s just as nerdy as those other white characters.

    There’s a recurring regular Asian American character on “The Mentalist” (on CBS) and he’s not a nerd, he’s actually quite suave (and hot). He’s a police detective. Check out the show.

  9. Littleshotlarry wrote:

    1. I don’t get How I Met Your Mother at all.
    2. The whole show plays off stereotypes. But they use them so well, it makes them human and not really something to ridicule. I think that makes a difference. Like in the case of the women on the show, yes there is a blonde bomshell (she’s totally my girlfriend btw) but like another commenter said, she is actually a pretty complex character for a sitcom. And truthfully, if you watch each episode, you see times when she is just as nerdy as the rest of them. Also, she works her way into the group and is firmly a part of it, she’s simply not a scientist… and it’s really interesting how sweet her friendship with the nerdiest character, Sheldon, is.

    And the most of the other female characters on the show are pretty powerful characters, with stereotypical quirks that again are made human.

  10. Stacy wrote:

    I love BBT. I have been watching from the first episode. Yes, the stereotypes are troubling, but it is an incredibly smart show which is nice.

    On a side note, I love the episode where Raj and Wolowitz use their “nerd skills” to break into the top model house….

  11. shani-o wrote:

    Love this post. I just wanted to say, I also have gotten used to the mythical white NYC where main characters don’t have any close friends of color, mostly because I *love* HIMYM. I have a sort of cognitive dissonance about it.

    There was one funny ep of HIMYM where Aly Hannigan ran into an old girlfriend of hers (who was black) and they started talking to each other in a very heavy, supposed-to-be-black “Heeeeeeey girl! How you been!? What UP?!” kind of way. But when Aly left the table, the woman spoke like most educated upper middle class people in New York do. When the gang looked at her like, wtf, she goes (paraphrased), “I only talk like that around Lily.” It was funny, but of course we never saw her again.

  12. Joseph wrote:

    @Latoya
    Awesome that you posted this. I think a visual history of the Nerd of Color (NoC?) can be traced directly to Synclaire from Living Single. Unless I am mistaken (and please let me know if I am) she is American television’s first Black Nerd. Woo Woo Woo.

    Asian nerds of all types are way more common but I agree that Raj is not entirely at the mercy of his stereotype. In fact, I think that that the subtle un-doing of the multiple stereotypes on the show (including the Hot Blonde Neighbor) is what makes it charming–at least to me. Although I also agree with you about Wolowitz: eeeesh. He is the least complex, and therefore least likeable character on that show. I think his character actually gets uncomfortably close to being anti-Jewish.

  13. Littleshotlarry wrote:

    Also, in some one liners, the characters do address race in a way that I thought was interesting. In one line Lenoard says “That’s Racist!” when someone makes a generalization that is supposed to be funny. We end up laughing at Leonard being totally right.

    In another scene Leonard qualifies the racist stereotype of Apu, saying it’s not racist because “Apu is a beloved character.” His argument is delivered with a tone that clearly indicates this is up for debate.

    I feel a lot of sitcoms would just not have gone there. But I feel this dialogue about stereotypes is better put out in the open.

    Realistically, a lot of insular groups of mostly white “nerds” ARE racist, even in the face of people of color. I’ve been there, done that.

    Also, in talking about nerdiness, I think we have to talk about privilege. There is a lot about nerdiness that stems from being hyper privileged. There are black nerds, however, generally, they tend to blend in because of the cultural significance of being “cool” in the black community. Historically blacks weren’t “cool” to be popular, they were “cool” to survive. Brought up culturally, blacks are taught to be utilitarian in everything they do.

    And so, there is nothing really funny about a black engineer that loves math as much as the next nerd, but just doesn’t fly the freak flag.

  14. Thea wrote:

    Haha LDP congrats on finishing your post! Also thanks for introducing me to BBT – have never watched it. (Sadly it is NOT on Hulu! Disgusting.)

    I think it’s interesting too how as anti-racists (or ppl generally concerned about social equity) we have to learn how to operate two sides of our brain at once: the side that enjoys mindless, problematic entertainment, and the side that can pick out problems. And we have to do this without letting the two sides interrupt each other. (And yes, this plays into my defense of how/why I watch The Hills…)

    @UDMPG

    Hrm, I wonder how you define stereotype? This is what I think: just because something is a stereotype doesn’t mean it’s going to be based on a completely false picture of a group. Often it is a faithful rendition of a least a few members of the group…but it becomes problematic because the behaviour of a few members of the group is projected onto the whole group.

    Take Tila Tequila for e.g. To me many of the ways she physically presents plays out extremely stereotyped ideas about East Asian women and sexuality. Similarly there are many African Americans who like eating fried chicken, they are some Jewish people who are careful with money.

    But the problem is that those traits are then applied to millions of people.

    I think Raj is a stereotype. The fact that there are lots of real live Indian men who do match his personality type doesn’t make him any less so.

    Is Raj problematic to the point that we should boycott the show? That I don’t know.

  15. Falyne wrote:

    I’ve been doing some flying lately (family problems…), and I’ve been stuck watching TBBT on the planes.

    As a female geek, I’m not too fond of the show. I’ve only seen one female character in the episodes I’ve seen, and she’s the pretty blonde woman who lives down the hall. Even if she’s intelligent and witty, she’s not a geek. She’s a girl. *

    As a geek in general, I was a little weirded out by the one episode I saw with sound, in which they bought a time machine off the internet and seemed to expect it to work. This… is not the typical behavior of intelligent specimens of humanity.

    *Obviously I don’t agree that there’s a contradiction there, but that seemed to be the archetypical dichotomy they were going for. Nerdy dorky boys, pretty social girl. Not one of us, not one of us. Blergh.

  16. Lisa J wrote:

    @ Joseph. Sinclaire, from Living Single as a nerd? Are we talking about the same show? Sinclaire was an airhead ditzy girl sterotype ( I loved her but she was dim). Are you sure you mean Living Single? As for the other characters Kadeja (sp?) had some nerdy aspects but was mostly cool, as did Max, but she had a mini-diva thing going on and Rayjean(sp?) was a full-on hardcore high maintenance UBER Diva, the antithesis of nerd.

  17. Fiqah wrote:

    @Lisa J: HEY!
    ::: reveals chip on shoulder :::
    Sinclaire was FLAKY, not dim, not unlike Phoebe on “Friends”, who was the resident space-case but then would come up with these wise gems out of the blue. Just sayin.’ Flakiness does not necessarily = stupidity. In fact, a la “The Absent Minded Professor”, flakiness can be an indicator of a very otherwise-sharp mind.
    ::: hides flaky chip, steps off flaky soapbox :::

  18. sejw wrote:

    As a self-professed black geek, and TBBT lover, I agree that the show, while mostly excellent, could use some work. I’m hopeful, however, that TBBT’s current use of scientist and sci-fi guest stars (Summer Glau, George Smoot), etc., can open the door for some more interesting guest spots that can be used to highlight the existence of more NoC…perhaps Neil deGrasse Tyson (geek squee!)?

  19. Minotaar wrote:

    I dont think its exact, the way this article puts it, to say that fandom and other nerdy things are the realm of whites in TV shows. I think its just that these writers think that fandom and other geekery can only be cool (and thus attractive to the opposite sex) if you are white – that if you’re a nerd and (heaven forbid) from the asian continent, you’re still a loser.

  20. sejw wrote:

    Also @ Latoya and Littleshotlarry, re: Penny’s intelligence and nerdiness: the Leonard Nimoy napkin gift to Sheldon.

  21. B wrote:

    I looooove BBT, and yet I’ve always been a little bothered by these issues. I wish they could make both Wolowitz and Raj a little more well-rounded, character wise, because that would go a long way towards getting rid of these problems. They did very well with not languishing in stereotypes with Penny, I think, over the course of the show so far, and I’m holding onto the hope that they extend that to the others.

    I should add that I generally don’t have much patience for sitcoms, especially ones with laugh tracks, so I may be criticizing something that’s inherent in the genre – although I’d like to think that doesn’t make it impossible to fix.

  22. t.allen-mercado wrote:

    I’ve never seen or heard of this show, but based on the post (which is great) I will take the time to check it out. As another commenter noted, the bombshell character smart or not, is not a nerd but a girl. As an attractive black female nerd, I find that troublesome. Why can’t the character have it all? It certainly is plausible.

  23. Joseph wrote:

    @Lisa J
    LOL…yeah, I meant Sinclaire. I agree with Fiqah though, I never thought of her as dim–or even ditzy really. She was a “country cousin” stereotype for sure but I think also a Black Nerd. Not in the classic, Star Trek/math geek sense but in the devotion to marginal topics/non-mainstream corny sense. I knew a ton of girls like Sinclaire growing up but I never saw them represented on TV until Living Single.

  24. shah8 wrote:

    Thing is, among the self-conciously intelligent white set, there *is* a tendency to have Calvin (from C&H) Solipsism Tendency that often translates to pretty serious cases of underlying ‘isms. In High School, I was friends with the superunderaged Seyyed and Illya, and not with the comparatively aged Jonathan Jackson. Namely because the shrimp had a reputation for explicit racism, prolly at 12 years old…

    I find the Big Bang Theory a genuinely non-neurotic show that doesn’t ping my radar. Much of that is because the Wolowitzes and Rajes of the world are unfortunately common, and I think the show is actually explicitly saying that it’s a bad thing when you’re like that.

    I also only recently realized that it has more science in the show than in any other drama or comedy that I’m aware of. That’s a genuinely great thing…

  25. nomuskles wrote:

    I enjoy the show quite a bit. It hit a rough patch for a while but there was always enough there to merit continual watching.

    In response to the main post, I too find myself questioning the stereotypical portrayals of Raj. Raj’s and Wolowitz’s parents are the the most uncomfortable part of the show. The characters themselves are relatively flat and underdeveloped compared to the sheldon and leonard. I can imagine that as time goes on, the writers are going to have to explore Raj and Howard more or risk pushing them into the background.

    I think it’s great to have a sitcom on tv that isn’t just stereotyping nerds and people of color and women (although it does do this) but it’s also about exploring the difficulties and ridiculousness of human interaction in the US. It does this while embracing the inner geek of the characters.

    In response to others, Leslie Winkel is a grand departure from the idea that women can’t be smart and have agency at the same time. She’s the one who initiates the sexual relationship with the characters and sets the terms. She’s also bested Sheldon in his well-established dominant zone of theoretical physics on more than one occasion. I’d say I am less concerned about the gender bias of the show than I am about the perpetuation of racial stereotypes of characters like Raj and Howard.

  26. Ruchama wrote:

    Awesome that you posted this. I think a visual history of the Nerd of Color (NoC?) can be traced directly to Synclaire from Living Single. Unless I am mistaken (and please let me know if I am) she is American television’s first Black Nerd. Woo Woo Woo.

    I didn’t watch enough episodes of Living Single to be able to comment on Sinclaire, but Urkel from Family Matters and Dwayne Wayne from A Different World both predate Living Single by several years.

  27. Andrea R. wrote:

    I discovered BBT while also getting hooked on How I met your Mother. Yes, it is sad to me that there are no people of color in HIMYM except for when it’s it’s about that person (like Lilly’s friend.) But I love Sheldon’s nerdy talk. Anyway, just glad this show was brought up.
    I disagree about Allison on HIMYM. I never watched her on Buffy and I think she has great comedic timing on HIMYM. I had to warm up to her a bit, but I figured out that that was just her style. She’s great on the show. I love them all!
    And totally right on the Mentalist dude, super hot! I first saw him on Ghost Whisperer. Speaking of: Someone should do a post about people of color on that show, we seem to just pop up like normal people on that show, we actually blend in even if it is on a completely idealized fictional world. I’d like to hear what others have to say about it (even though the show IMO is going down the drain this season.)

  28. JC wrote:

    I can’t get into the show. It lost me at the “mythical white NY” part. It’s quite sad that one of the most diverse place on the planet is being portrayed as a whites-only playground. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    As for the Asian nerd part, that I’m already got used to. What else is new in Hollywood? Actually, with the exposure to Slumdog Millionaire, we may see a temporary surge in South Asian males being in Hollywood films in non-stereotypical ways. No such luck for East Asian males, and once the Bollywood wave fades (if it ever comes at all), it’s back to nerds, token doctors, and terrorists for the Indian brothers.

  29. L. wrote:

    @ Joseph:

    IDK about Sinclair being the first NoC. If I’m not mistaken, both Urkel and Carlton Banks predate Sinclaire. Also, I think Kadeem Hardison’s “Dwayne Wayne” from A Different World came before all three of those. But if we really want to go back, I’m puttin my money on Raj from “What’s Happening?”

    Suffice it to say, at least I keep up with my black nerds…

  30. The Opoponax wrote:

    And so, there is nothing really funny about a black engineer that loves math as much as the next nerd, but just doesn’t fly the freak flag.

    I don’t know if you’re making a generalization or speaking from personal experience, or what, but there are plenty of black nerds who let their freak flags fly. I went to a magnet high school, and we had plenty of black nerds. I also live close to one of the big NYC tech high schools, and see blatant and open nerds of all races around there all the time.

  31. deb wrote:

    I couple of years ago I listened to the late physicist Richard Feyman’s audiobook “Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman! (Adventures of a Curious Character).” I really liked it a lot! I remember thinking that some of the anecdotes would make for a good sitcom. :) A friend thought the idea was a bit too cerebral.

    The BBT seems like a cerebral sitcom, but I’m not sure why I haven’t watched it. Maybe because it looks like “Friends” with brains?

  32. L. wrote:

    And I just thought I’d add that the character of Raj is based on Preach from the movie Cooley High (1975).

  33. norah wrote:

    Are you watching Leverage? Because that has a hot black nerd in it who has totally become a fan favorite. Alec Hardison is a geek’s geek, totally competent, the gentlest and sweetest of a bunch of criminal masterminds who do good a la Robin Hood, and did I mention that he is hot? And nerdy?

    HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

  34. L. wrote:

    Wait, would you spell it “Rodg” or “Raj” or “Rog”? It’s spelled “Raj” on wikipedia, so I stuck with it.

  35. Lisa J wrote:

    @ Fiquah and Joseph. Sorry, gonna have to agree to disagree. It has been a few years since I’ve seen the show, but she never struck me as being very bright at all and I HATED Friends and it’s all white NYC but from the little I saw of it, I thought Phoebe was pretty ditzy too. Occasional glimmers of insight don’t make you unditzy, everyone has their moments and a broken clock is right at least twice a day (if you aren’t using a 24 hour clock). Plus I’ve known people who got straight A’s, went to fancy schools that were hard to get into but who coudln’t translate that into common sense or not coming across as being dizzy. Although, with girls, that is sometimes an act to get male attention.

    Maybe I’ll check out an episode or two on TV1 of Living Single to reevaluate Sinclair, but I was a steady watcher for years and never saw anything to indicate nerdiness. Weird, yeah, nerdy, not so much. Despite her dizzyness she seemed a little to cool to be a nerd, by my def. Shrugs shoulders.

  36. Eva wrote:

    Thanks for mentioning Hardison on “Leverage.” I only watch the show for him. He has the best lines in the show, IMO.

  37. Zahra wrote:

    Great article. I really thought we were on a prominent moment of nerds of color going mainstream about thirty seconds back, but it seems to be dissipating…

    How does the Big Bang Theory compare with Aliens in America? I haven’t seen either show, but from what I could tell, the latter seemed to revolve around the friendship between a white Christian ubernerd from Wisconsin and his Pakistani Muslim exchange student friend. I’m curious.

  38. Filmi Girl wrote:

    “Big Bang Theory” is hit or miss with me. I like so much about it – academia in-jokes, Sara Gilbert’s character, Kunal Nayyar – that it pains me when they do the boring Leonard/Penny sitcom stuff. Half of BBT makes fun OF nerds and the other half is laughing WITH them.

    I interviewd Kunal Nayyar for my blog here:

    http://filmi-girl.livejournal.com/184568.html

  39. The Opoponax wrote:

    Re the “White Playground NYC” — the weird thing is that I had no idea either How I Met Your Mother or Big Bang Theory took place in New York. Probably because everything is so whitewashed. I pegged HIMYM for a “whiter” smaller city somewhere in New England or the Midwest (Minneapolis? Providence?), and I’d have guessed BBT takes place in a big college town like Madison, Cambridge, Palo Alto, someplace like that.

    I’m not sure if that’s because of the racial dynamics, or just because the shows are way too simplistic to convey a sense of place. I mean, at least with Friends their cafe hangout was called Central Perk and the opening credits had NYC landmarks…

  40. Persia wrote:

    Leverage is awesome, and Hardison is doubly awesome. Christian Kane has some Cherokee heritage, and some of us fans keep hoping they’ll make that part of his character’s backstory.

    BBT’s whiteness is a bit more acceptable to me simply because we don’t ’see’ a lot of the world beyond the core cast– it’s not like HIMYM where they’re at their jobs, in restaurants, all over the place. Generally they’re at the apartment.

    I thought last night’s episode did a great job with Raj– especially pointing out, subtly, that his ‘girl problems’ are all in his head. (Which I hope gives us hope they’re solvable.)

  41. Colleen Beach wrote:

    This is maybe an odd question, and maybe I don’t know enough about Indian stereotypes, but how is “walks around with his 17″ MacBook Pro” an Indian thing? That just seems like more of a general nerd thing to me. Am I missing something?

    @ The Opoponax: I grew up in Minneapolis and it is NOT as white as everyone thinks (my high school was majority minority for example). There is a huge community of Hmong, Somali and Native Americans. It’s not NYC, but it’s no where NEAR as white as HIMYM. The suburbs yes, even Saint Paul, but Minneapolis isn’t all the different from Chicago.

  42. Matt wrote:

    The idea of the nerd generally goes back to stereotypes of ‘white’ immigrant groups. While Aryan Americans reliant on privilege developed a sense of a well-rounded ideal involving athleticism, such immigrants had to focus on hard work and schooling to achieve success. And a great deal of nerdy texts, like Stan Lee’s comics, often come from that dynamic. (Who knew The Thing was Jewish?) Anyone with color would have been more severely excluded, so that they were irrelevant there.

    Nerds today still tend to be presented as Jewish, though I honestly can’t say if there are still other ethnicities common. Case in point: Ross from Friends. No, Friends wasn’t Seinfeld, the most bizarre example that always comes up of all-white shows, but it was more Jewish than my link gives credit for.

  43. Asada wrote:

    I noticed with BBT there was a Blondbomshell that didnt really seem into what the dorks did. The characters seem so rigid , Like…this IS a dork, this IS the bombshell, this IS the ” _____”
    It was too annoying.

  44. Jaya wrote:

    Ugh. I hate this show. Unfortunately, everyone I know LOVES it. This includes my boyfriend, my roommate… even my DAD.

    My father still likes it, even after I pointed out the blatant stereotyping. My dad is an Indian nerd, but he’s nothing like the loser portrayed on TV.

    This show is sexist, racist, and totally nerdist, imo.

    Gimme How I Met Your Mother any day.

  45. jvansteppes wrote:

    I didn’t even know about this meeting your mother show until this moment- it reminded me of an interview with Sandra Oh, who is so awesome I watch Grey’s Anatomy sometimes, in which she said something like”another all white show about New York is just fucking unacceptable at this point in time.”

  46. hope wrote:

    TBBT is set in California not NY not that it means no minorities should be present but I thought I’d clarify. I think the show needs to go beyond stereotypes, but I think so far its entertaining and pushing some boundries at least which gives me hope for the future. I also think that them being graduate students and only interacting with each other and Penny (”the blonde bomshell”) is plausible, but it would be interesting to not who the background people are in say the lunch room or in the Cheesecake factory where Penny worked. If it is all white characters my hope might dwindle, but I happen to think this show is hilarious so I’m hoping with more shows all the character will get more fleshed out and become more than just a stereotype.

  47. Ruchama wrote:

    I’ve watched the show a few times, but generally got too annoyed at the nerd stereotypes — especially the complete lack of female nerds — that I hadn’t really considered the racial aspects.

    No, Friends wasn’t Seinfeld, the most bizarre example that always comes up of all-white shows, but it was more Jewish than my link gives credit for.

    Friends also had probably one of the most blatant JAP stereotypes I’ve ever seen on TV (with the exception of Fran Dresher in The Nanny) with Rachel, though they never actually said she was Jewish. She hit every JAP marker, though.

  48. akong wrote:

    Blatantly racist? that’s pretty out there. i mean while Raj and Wolowitz seem to fit various stereotypes, they are NOT the main characters. The main characters are Sheldon and Leonard. I’m not trying to say that they’re not important, it’s just that the main focus is not on their everyday lives, but on Sheldon and Leonard’s, and that’s why nearly every episode has a main plot that revolves around them. While Raj is a bit stereotypical, he is clearly an equal intellectually and socially amongst his friends. Race is RARELY an issue amongst them and never is in any negative context. Wolowitz is somewhat stereotypical, but again, he is an EQUAL. He’s even with Leslie now, who, by the way, is a strong woman who is on equal footing. For the most part, I never feel that there are any racial jokes or stereotypical jokes that are done for cheap laughs. And I’m one of the East Asian nerds that’s not represented in the show.

  49. JC wrote:

    I’ve just learned that “JAP” stands for “Jewish American Princess”. Had me scratching my head for a second there. I do find it strange that in many, many white shows Jews are either portrayed as whites or as “normal” as the mythical white mainstream, yet many unique aspect of Jewish life is suppressed. Just by watching shows like Friends, I’ve starting to see Jews are part of the white world, and not really part of “others” like blacks, Asians, and Latinos. Is that good or bad?

  50. Matt wrote:

    JC, I think Rachel is a very interesting case. But contrast her with Monica who is explicitly Jewish and far more neurotic and Ross who is nerdier – I think what you get is a show about Jews by Jews with a few Easter (Passover?) Eggs for Jews in the audience. Oh, Chandler hits a lot of Jewish stereotypes, too. Phoebe? Lisa Kudrow, unlike Jennifer Aniston or (so far as I know) Courtney Cox, is actually Jewish. This is why I find it weird when it’s labeled an all-white show.

    JC, you ask, “Is that good or bad?” Well, Jews who are white and aren’t identified through religious markers are generally part of the white world. (Jews of Color and Orthodox Jews, and sometimes barely religious Jews who put mezuzot on their doors, are a different story.) But I think these shows tend to understate that it’s ok for Jews to be different from other whites. So there’s good and bad there.

    After watching some brief videos of the show, I’m not sure Wolowitz is that bad a representation. Jews have been stereotyped as nerds, but certainly there are Jews among the nerds. The only thing was that they gave him a very Jewish name and got a very Jewish actor. Then they made him up to emphasize his Jewish features. They might be trying to use him to make some sort of point, but I don’t know how to read it.

    But I wonder – does he have no father? Stereotypical Jewish households are dominated by the mother. Does his father dominate so much that his father is completely erased? That would actually trouble me.

  51. The Opoponax wrote:

    This is maybe an odd question, and maybe I don’t know enough about Indian stereotypes, but how is “walks around with his 17″ MacBook Pro” an Indian thing?

    I was wondering the same thing, and I am pretty familiar with both Indian culture and the typical Indian stereotypes.

    Re Minneapolis — I know it’s not 100% white by any means, but it’s a lot whiter than NYC. NYC being really, really not-white. I’m the only white person living on my floor of this apartment building, for instance. And my neighborhood is “gentrified”.

  52. The Opoponax wrote:

    Also, some sociology or anthropology grad student REALLY needs to do their thesis on Jewishness in late 90’s NYC sitcoms. Especially friends. I remember when it dawned on me that most of the characters are supposed to be Jewish, except that the show really steps back from that and refuses to “go there” in a way that is alternately infuriating and interesting.

  53. Restructure! wrote:

    When you say that Asians are portrayed as nerdy, don’t you mean Asian males? What does a stereotypical nerdy Asian female look like?

    The sexism of geek culture, the false dichotomy of “geeks versus women”, stands out more to me than the racism. I’m not saying that it isn’t racist, but just that the sexism is more blatant and unchecked.

    As for nerdiness being linked to whiteness, Macon D wrote a post about this. Macon D wrote:

    Is nerdiness a white thing? Others can of course be nerds (think: Urkel), but is a white nerd more nerdy than say, a Native American nerd or an Asian American one? Does being a WHITE nerd make one that much more of a nerd?

    Of course, I balked at this. However, I mention that post because the stereotype of linking nerdiness to whiteness is so pervasive that even a “white anti-racist” poses it as a serious question in the examination of whiteness.

  54. MelMel wrote:

    I think I could get Raj to talk to me. If not, that’s ok.

  55. Joseph wrote:

    @JC
    “Just by watching shows like Friends, I’ve starting to see Jews are part of the white world, and not really part of “others” like blacks, Asians, and Latinos. Is that good or bad?”

    …I think it depends where you are in America. My friend Toni always says she is white in New York, where she is surrounded by other Jews and therefore sort of disappears into the mix, and decidedly not white everywhere else. That is just her experience but I think its telling nevertheless.

    @The Oppoponax
    Cosign. New York is 31 flavors, which is what makes these whitewashed Hollywood representations so incredibly odd if you really live here. Yes, other cities are diverse but you can’t walk two feet in New York without sharing space with somebody on the olive/tan/brown spectrum.

    Literally the only show on television that looks anything like the city I see everyday is Law and Order, which is actually shot here.

  56. Ruchama wrote:

    …I think it depends where you are in America. My friend Toni always says she is white in New York, where she is surrounded by other Jews and therefore sort of disappears into the mix, and decidedly not white everywhere else. That is just her experience but I think its telling nevertheless.

    I’ve had this experience, too. Not I’m decidedly not white elsewhere, but that my Jewishness brings my whiteness into question in ways it pretty much never did in New York.

    Yes, other cities are diverse but you can’t walk two feet in New York without sharing space with somebody on the olive/tan/brown spectrum.

    Well, I’m white, and decidedly in the “olive” category of that spectrum. Also, there are a bunch of parts of New York that are largely white — Staten Island and parts of Brooklyn and Queens, in particular, but also certain parts of the Upper East Side, and sometimes even the Upper West Side.

  57. *Rachel wrote:

    Can’t wait for a piece about Black geeks! For I am one of them. But I feel like other black geeks hide it like I do or just doesn’t really show. Like no one really knows until they see my bookshelf that’s covered in manga and anime DVDs.

  58. Phil Deeze wrote:

    Don’t forget one of the original Nerds of Color: Michael Evans from “Good Times” aka “The Militant Midget.” He always got good grades….until he beat up the little fat kid with glasses that one time.

    Sondra Huxtable and her husband Elvin? Nerds of Color. Martin Kendall? I’d say he balanced out Denise Huxtable’s flightiness with his Naval Academy education and square-jawed stance.

    How about a Nerd of Color from the new school? Little Franklin from “My Wife and Kids.” The little fella does taxes, plays the piano AND macks on the girl next door.

    Dwayne Wayne and Steve Urkel were good ones, but I always thought that Dwayne was actually pretty hip.

  59. Phil Deeze wrote:

    Oh, and don’t forget another Nerd of Color from back in the day: our friend Roger from “What’s Happening.” Always wanted to be a writer. And his meddling sister Dee was no dummy. Dwayne, Snake and Re-Run? Loveable but dopey.

    Where are the Gibbons kids? Can we post the youtube of “Bubblin’ Brown Sugar,” up in herre, please?

  60. queerhapa wrote:

    Restructure! wrote: “When you say that Asians are portrayed as nerdy, don’t you mean Asian males? What does a stereotypical nerdy Asian female look like?”

    Answer: the Nelly Yuki character on “Gossip Girl,” most definitely. (http://www.disgrasian.com/2008/04/interchasianable.html)

  61. emma wrote:

    I think we have the ultimate black nerd in the White House:Barack Obama. He gets a pass because he’s black , young and good looking, but in his heart he is a total nerd. Remember when he was said to be too professorial and that his answers to questions were too long? He is definitely a nerd, but because blackness gets automatic cool ponts, he isn’t called one. Yeah, Barry is a nerd.

  62. Katie wrote:

    Latoya,
    You are great!

    I always love reading what you have to say.
    As a regular reader of racialicious I am, obviously, usually interested in the topics you cover.

    EXCEPT I have absolutely NO interest in “nerd culture” and my eyes usually glaze over when someone mentions comic books or physics or anything like that, but I found this post interesting and endearing, which made me re-appreciate what an exceptionally talented writer you are.

    That is all. I will probably never even watch this show, so I have nothing of substance to add.

  63. Restructure! wrote:

    @queerhapa: Thanks. I don’t watch Gossip Girl. She does look like a nerd. Is she also a geek? (Not that I endorse the Jargon File in general. It is a horribly written document by someone who thinks that clichés are original thinking.)

  64. Maureen wrote:

    @Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Gurl!: There’s also Kal Penn playing “Kumar, MD” on House (a show that’s both diverse (although lacking in non-white women) AND can be viewed as racially problematic i/r/t House’s use of every regular character’s ethnicity/religion/nationality/gender/sexual preference as a opportunity to mock them. There are probably people out there who actually think House is serious in his insults. Then again, there were people who agreed with Archie Bunker. Sigh.)

    @emma: Trekkie AND professor at the University of Chicago. I’m not sure we’ve ever elected a nerdier president since Jefferson.

  65. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Lola –

    Cosign! Raj is hot, but thanks to racism, we probably won’t get to see him (on these shores anyway) playing a leading man or in a sex scene. In other news, racism still blows…

    @shani-0 -

    I need that episode to live. I can has title?

    @Joseph –

    I think Sinclaire had nerd tendancies but she was really part of the loveable ditz cannon.

    @Thea –

    I was up at 3 AM last night like it’s now or never.

    @Falyne -

    It’s a man’s world over there, but season two does bring the femmes. Now,that doesn’t mean there aren’t issues with that as well…

    @sejw –

    perhaps Neil deGrasse Tyson (geek squee!)?

    We all love Neil deGrasse Tyson. I think it would all be too much for this fangirl though – I may need to bring back the anime nosebleed.

    @t-allen mercado –

    Last time I checked we’re still rendered invisible. I have seen hide nor hair of geeky black girls, but trust I will sound the alarm if I spot one.

    @Ruchama –

    Ah…Dwayne Wayne of the flip glasses :-)

    @Norah -

    Noted. Will tune in to Leverage.

    @Restructure –

    I would need to scroll for a bit through our tabs, but Asian American women are represented as nerds quite often – but not as often as Asian women are centered as sexual objects. However, that’s a theme.

    @Phil –

    Great list!

    @Katie –

    LOL. I read your comment to my boyfriend who watched me get frustrated at the piece, and he said “I guess your blogging is like your cooking.” We have a running joke where he always loves whatever I make but I always think I screwed up the recipe and I never enjoy it. (Burden of having a mom who’s a great cook and uses no recipes.) Thanks for the reassurance.

  66. Maureen wrote:

    @Maureen: Whoops, we elected Al Gore, didn’t we?

  67. Fiqah wrote:

    @Lisa J:

    “Plus I’ve known people who got straight A’s, went to fancy schools that were hard to get into but who coudln’t translate that into common sense or not coming across as being dizzy.”

    Ho, boy.

    At the extreme risk of derailing the thread and making it somehow all about my own personal persecution complex, let me just say that this particular comment is irksome. Those “people” that you know? Those ones who are sooooo smart but just don’t seem to have it all together in the “common sense” department? Well, I happen to know them, too. Intimately. Because I AM them.

    I have heard the “well-if-she’s-so-smart-then-why-is-she-so-stupid” thing enough to know that it’s usually the easiest way for someone who is threatened by another person’s intelligence to instantly Feel Better About Themselves. This is an ugly truth, but there it is. Bright people are not always well-received by people who perceive themselves as being not-as-bright. (Lashing out because of our own insecurities is neither mature nor productive, but it is human.) Further, I can tell you that in a lot of cases, exceptionally bright people (women in particular) “play dumb” in order to NOT be resented for their intelligence. It’s not necessarily a ploy to get boys to like us, it’s just that life is hard enough without having someone not like you for something that you can’t help – and that isn’t even a flaw. Finally, in my own case, the whole “dizzy” thing is not an act. It’s a peculiarity of how my mind functions (or malfunctions). Case in point: I started teaching myself to read at age 3, and by the time I entered kindergarten I was reading at a third-grade level. However, I could not tie my shoelaces until I was ten. Could. Not. It was just fucking impossible. Frankly, I still have trouble with it at 31. Velcro straps may just have saved my life. Most of my close friends know about the shoelace thing, so whenever I have trouble grasping something “simple,” one of them will smile sympathetically and go, “Fiqah…shoelace moment.” This isn’t me faking stupid. This is me, being me – smart, flaky, and real.

    It’s been said that 99 percent of the time how we see someone else says more about US than it ever will about THEM. Just something to think about.

  68. SolShine7 wrote:

    I’ve only watched one episode but I’ll definitely be buying this on DVD. There are only so many things you can DVR at a time.

  69. Claudia wrote:

    Wow, this has been a fascinating thread to read!

    @queerhapa – yes, Nelly Yuki was the first example of the Asian Nerd Girl trope that I came up with too. See also Keiko Agena as Lane Kim in That Other GG Show From the CW (Gilmore Girls, for the pop-culturally-challenged). She’s a more toned-down version of geek-nerddom but ultimately makes a sufficiently neurotic stereotype come to life. And don’t forget about her strained relationship with her Hardass Asian Momma (to reference the ladies of Disgrasian loosely).

    @emma
    My suspicions, too, of Barack’s nerdiness were confirmed during the multiple rounds of mainstream coverage of his blackberry dependency and recent photos of his golf hobby. Which leads me to question, however, if I see his nerdiness as simply a product of his educational background and social class markers (the fact that he plays golf actually reads more as white and upper middle class than nerd, per se).

    @the OP
    It’s interesting that the quoted article makes this contrast between the apparently ‘aesthetic’ function of black/cool culture, and the ‘practical’ function of white/nerd culture… which brings me to…

    @ Littleshotlarry:

    I think what you say about nerdiness being related to privilege (as opposed to static categories of ‘race’) is key. Because when we’re talking about whiteness aren’t we really just talking about privilege and its packaging? I mean, that’s what gives conversations like this their meat, isn’t it? The undercurrent of power dynamics reflected in these issues. This also cuts into class privilege and dynamics, which I think you addressed a bit too… aka there are (and always have been) nerds of color. What makes them nerds? Educational background? Class privilege?

    “There are black nerds, however, generally, they tend to blend in because of the cultural significance of being “cool” in the black community. Historically blacks weren’t “cool” to be popular, they were “cool” to survive. Brought up culturally, blacks are taught to be utilitarian in everything they do.”

    I thought this was interesting and it presents a great contrast to the article quoted in the OP… what we think of as stereotypically black ‘cool’ culture (aka the culture that whiteness appropriates as a marker of ‘cool’) doesn’t stem entirely from an appreciation of ‘aesthetic’ value, but also has it roots in survival. Thinking about it that way implies that white appropriation of black culture isn’t about aesthetics at all. It’s about authenticity, being seen as ‘keeping it real’ and an associated experience of hardship or struggle. It’s a divestment from white guilt.

  70. Claudia wrote:

    As for Raj and TBBT… I’ve never seen it, and so can’t really comment on this whole deal, except to say that I miss the days of Harold and Kumar. Which was what, like a year ago? I miss that brief moment in filmic history when South Asian American men in US popular culture could be sarcastic potheads, instead of either ’slumdogs’ (everyone’s new favorite meme for Desi men of all types, from American Idol contestants to Louisiana Governors) or computer programmers.

  71. Rchoudh wrote:

    To whoever said above that white nerds are essentially seen as “cool” while Asian nerds are just nerds…I always had the impression that nerds of whatever color weren’t perceived to be “cool” and “with it” in the social skills department. At least according to Hollywood, nerds (who were predominantly white) were primarily perceived to be losers in both looks and social skills who always lusted after “hot” ladies. And American nerd culture revolving around comic books and video games is similar to Japanese otaku culture with its anime, manga and video games. So I’m not getting how white nerds are any “cooler” than non white nerds.

    Also I read an interview with the actor who plays Raj on this show. He said something interesting which was essentially that when he was growing up in India he never dealt with being labelled a nerd or jock because those labels don’t necessarily exist everywhere. I can attest that even in America these social categories don’t exist in all high schools here. My school for example a competitive tech high school in NYC was large and diverse so it was hard to figure out who were the “cool” kids and who were not. Also because the school was competitive, everyone there could be labeled as nerds although most of them did not necessarily look like stereotypical nerds. I encountered these categories in Junior High school though and I’m wondering if it’s because the school was predominantly white.

  72. AA. Logan wrote:

    All this talk of stereotypes, but no-one has men tioned Sheldon.

    He isn’t a character, just a walking caricature of autism…

  73. queerhapa wrote:

    I just remembered the character of Thomas Builds-the-Fire in Sherman Alexie’s “Smoke Signals”. Huge nerd. Alexie’s got lots of Native American nerds in his fiction, some of them girls, too.

    I’m going to be distracted today racking my brain for more pop cultural images of female Asian nerds (and geeks), ’cause I know they’re out there.

  74. the real patriot wrote:

    Ah, the fabled “white NYC.” I think this holds more import in the minds of the masses than we think. How often have I come across a bunch of shell-shocked tourists, from the midwest, the south, Europe and even Latin America, who looked completely bewildered by the sea of different skin tones around them. Has to make me chuckle. I once had a Peruvian ask me to 1. tell him how to get to Chinatown. 2. What the best restaurant is in Chinatown. 3. If they eat dogs there. I’m an American born and bred, many generations back.

  75. Restructure! wrote:

    @Claudia: Oh yeah, I forgot about Lane Kim from Gilmore Girls. I used to be (self) aware of the Asian Nerd Girl stereotype, but I somehow forgot about it.

    I just noticed that both GGs, Gossip Girl and Gilmore Girls, are “girl shows” and are centred on white girls (who are also both preppy and teens). Maybe the nerdification of Asian girls is because the shows are girl-centred, and the nerdification comes from racial otherness.

    Now that I’m older, I no longer watch “teen shows” or care about teenage girl hierarchies, but the Asian Nerd Girl stereotype is coming back to me now. It’s definitely a factor in high school.

    I wonder if “boy shows”, “women shows”, or “men shows” feature Asian females as nerds.

  76. B wrote:

    @ Matt

    re: Wolowitz’s father, he’s mentioned his parents being divorced a few times, hasn’t he?

    I’m Jewish, and the one-dimensionalness of Wolowitz’s womanizing bothers me more than any aspect of his Jewishness. Maybe because I’ve known some Jewish mothers who are just like his, it just cracks me up and makes me think fondly of them.

    I’d really like to see him grow in terms of how he treats women. Maybe this new relationship(?) with Leslie Winkle will do that.

  77. blip wrote:

    Another great post.

    Nerdiness…cool nerdiness seems to be characterized by white males only. As a black female art nerd, I always expected I would be welcomed by other oddballs. Not so. I’ve often felt like I was in a petri dish, and intellectually disassembled, in the great collective wonderment of ‘why the hell is she here?’

  78. Matt wrote:

    Phoebe Maltz has something to say on this. She notes several reasons she could be offended, more than I am by Wolowitz – but then she’s seen the show – she doesn’t actually feel offended. She does take issue, however, with Latoya’s suggestion that there’s only one nerd of color in the show. While I tend toward, ‘yes, white, but…,’ she’s more ‘no, not really white, but…’

    Read her instead of me paraphrasing.

  79. cat m. wrote:

    hey latoya, BBT is set in LA, not NYC… but of course,it still presents the same problems.

    @thea: surfthechannel.com has it. ^_^

  80. Lisa J wrote:

    @Fiquah, I don’t know you or anything about you and please note I was talking about one character on one tv show and was describing people who I’ve known and have no idea if they are like you or not. I wasn’t trying to slam you and it wasn’t my intention to upset you. But, you seem to be hinting that I’m not too bright b/c I point out that I’ve met people who are book smart but not street smart and who have poor conversational skills. You don’t know me, and I wasn’t trying to judge you b/c I don’t know you and wasn’t conflating you with Sinclair, that was your reading of what I said. I don’t appreciate you, personally making a comments subtley about my intelligence or my motives when you don’t know me or the people I’ve known. If you identify with the character and think she is smart or nerdy or female geek, fine, I did say we could agree to disagree, but you don’t have to use it as a way to put me down b/c you like a character who for all I know is or is not like you. I’m as entitled to an opinion as you are, and that is how I see it. If that somehow makes me dumb b/c I’m trying to make myself feel better b/c someone behaves in a way that I see as flakey and I call it as I see it. There are many ways of being intelligent, you can have academically oriented intelligence, native intelligence which allows you to easily pick things up and understand things, emotional intelligence, spatial intelligence, intelligence that is more scientifically oriented, intelligence that is more humanties oriented. So we all have our strenghts and weaknesses, but my pointing out the weakness of someone who doesn’t even exist is a bad thing or out of line? I don’t think that is fair.

  81. Fiqah wrote:

    @Lisa J: Look, I don’t want this to deteriorate into some of the nasty back-and-forth that I have seen elsewhere. First, let me apologize if anything I said implied that I thought you were stupid. It was unintentional, but it caused offense, and for that I am truly sorry.

    Secondly, I know that your comment (obviously) wasn’t personal. How could it be? I don’t know you, and you certainly don’t know me. Which is why my second comment included the disclaimer “personal persecution complex.” That said, I moved beyond our initial examination of Sinclair (sp?) into something you said about smart people who lacked common sense. I’m not gonna be an ass and copy-quote here, but you mentioned people you knew in college, who I assumed are non-fictional/probably not on a sitcom. And I recognized a very real contempt in your tone for smart-but-flaky behavior; you even went so far as to suggest that it’s sometimes a ploy for male attention – which I’m not disregarding. But…what if it’s not? What if your perception of smart-but-flaky behavior needs to be re-examined? I can respect the “I call it like I see it” approach, but I also know that what I see is not always objective, and is more often than not directly informed by my own prejudicial perspective.

    Finally, I’m glad that you noted in your response that there are indeed a lot of different types of intelligence. I’m going to ask you to additionally note that these types of intelligence can often work in a manner that is contradictory. ( One of the best books ever that covers this topic is Carl Sagan’s “Broca’s Brain.”) I think the key here to understanding them all is respecting the individual value of each.

  82. Beth wrote:

    This has little to do with the show (which I tried briefly watching and then gave up on because the treatment of women bothered me), but I think it’s tangentially related to why nerds of color on television are so often read as being “normal” or “successful” in the eyes of a white audience, rather than being considered mockably-nerdy.

    I feel like the negative stereotypes of “nerd” were specifically white in large part because the term started as a way to police white masculinity. As an insult, it others a group of otherwise-privileged people: white middle- and upper-class men. That it’s been claimed as a subculture with its own privilege can’t completely erase those derogatory origins.

    I also think that because of those origins some parts of white male nerd culture can be particularly vicious and appropriative; “nerdcore” rap, for example, or the treatment of women at science fiction convention (such as the “open source boob” project). Female nerds and nerds of color are fighting against expectations, but they are not the same expectations white male nerds are rebelling against. Most of the visual and behavioral markers of nerd-culture are also coded by race and gender, though it may be because a lot of them have to do with having an over-inflated but fragile ego and an excessive sense of privilege; society tends to censure not-white-males much more firmly for those behaviors.

  83. Sarah wrote:

    In a lot of mainstream movies and teen books, the white nerd girl (who is always hetero) has to be transformed into someone who fits society’s standards of female attractiveness. See She’s All That and Never Been Kissed (actually, don’ t see them–they’re terrible movies) and various old YA series like Sweet Valley High. A kind, popular girl usually befriends the nerd; there’s some sort of makeover/shopping montage, and then, voila, our nerd girl’s glasses are gone, and she is miraculously beautiful and popular. Shows like TLC’s What Not to Wear are particularly brutal in their treatment of nerd style. I mean, what’s wrong with wearing a Bruce Campbell t-shirt?

  84. Brooklynperson wrote:

    Poor United States. Very few USians have seen The IT Crowd, a UK Channel 4 show that NBC was going to remake, but (blessedly) nixed. They would’ve bollixed it up, to be sure. I’m lucky; I have English friends and an all-region DVD player. :)

    One of the main characters is a mixed-race black nerd named Moss, played by a former president of Cambridge’s Footlights, Richard Ayoade. Of the three main characters, *he* is the stereotypical nerd, right up to the weird part in his hair and his too-big specs. NBC was to have him reprise his role on the US version. And again, let me reiterate that I’m sure they would have totally messed it up.

    Maybe because stereotypes about people of African descent are different in the UK than in the US, I’ve not seen anything in Moss’s portrayal as a person that’s offended me. He’s just a nerd. A scared-of-women, runs-from-bigger-guys, absolute-whiz-on-computers-and-mobile-phones-and-so-forth, bookish nerd. Moss also appears to be the favorite character of the show’s nerdy fanbase.

    There are clips of the programme (have to use UK spelling, of course) widely available on YouTube.

  85. TeakLipstickFiend wrote:

    Asian girl nerd? How about Saffy’s friend, Sarah, in Ab Fab? The actress also played a nerdy character in Torchwood.

  86. Lisa J wrote:

    @Fiquah I think I understand where you are coming from. Perhaps I will have to rethink my take on what “dizzy” really means and my take on smart people who seem “distracted” or smart in an academic sense but not a day-to-day standard version of “common sense”.

    Peace.

  87. Darkrose wrote:

    Chiming in to add to the Hardison love. After watching the backstory flashback for him in the first episode, I paused, turned to my wife and said, “He’s my people!” Not only is he brilliant, and hot, and cool, and sexy as all hell, but even though he’s a professional criminal like the rest of them, he’s the moral center of the team in many ways. And while Nate is nominally the team leader, Alec is the one who does the research, who sets up the cover stories and goes in when the job calls for someone who can actually talk to people. He’s a wonderful, nuanced character, and Aldis Hodge totally rocks my world. Even if he’s young enough to be my son. *facepalms*

  88. Nathan wrote:

    @ Fiqah

    As someone whose parents alternatively referred to him as the space cadet or absent-minded professor growing up because of this sort of behaviour, definite cosign.

  89. Pheagan wrote:

    How about the fact that there’s not a smart girl to be seen.

  90. Daryll B wrote:

    Thought provoking blog as always and as a male black nerd from Queens who has never hid his love of comic and sci/fi material let me tell you this:

    In reality there is NOTHING COOL to women about a black geek. How do I know? 23+ years of taunts, getting books ripped in front of me, beatdowns, having stuff thrown at me etc. IN PUBLIC…

    So I sorry if I don’t get in on the Hollywood glamorization of geekification but to me that is as honest and pure as any politician.

    Now I got to go back to my true friends, my stack of books. Thx for the venting time and as usual I love the differing opinions.

  91. gatamala wrote:

    L & Phil~~ The glasses, the backwards chair!!

    before there was Raj, there was Rodg (sp)

  92. MelMel wrote:

    @Pheagan: Leslie. And Leonard’s mom. And Penny shows “social” intelligence/wit.

  93. Sean wrote:

    As a BBT viewer, I have to say the arguments that “there are no smart/nerd girls” and the Penny character is a sterotypical “bombshell” are wrong at best and, if anything, miss the point.

    Other posters have mentioned Sara Gilbert’s recurring character as a follow physicist and Sara Rue’s story arc as Leonard’s doctor (MD not PHD) girlfriend. Another episode featured a female graduate student who worshiped Sheldon based on his work. Penny may have been created to serve as the “normal person” to serve a a window in the guys’ world, but over the two seasons she’s been revealed to having been a theatre geek (which led to her current status as a struggling actress) and has been called out by Sheldon for her Hello Kitty collection.

    The premise of the show kind of dictates that any female character outside of Penny (and now Leslie Winkle) be a recurring character at best and most likely a one shot character. Rue played a girlfriend and Gilbert’s character may be involved with Wolowitz, but at least they’ve been stronger characters than a typical one-note sit-com girlfriend.

    It’s not a perfect show by any means. Both Raj and Penny have suffered from “Vinnie Passeta Disease.*” But it’s been picked up for two more seasons because the two most important things, it holds it’s audience and it brings the funny.

    (*VPD is the syndrome of a sit-com character having mutiple disparate personality traits stemming from whoever whote a particular episode, named after the character from Square Pegs who appeared in 14 of the 20 episodes and showed four different personalities/levels of intelligence.)

  94. Ike wrote:

    Ugh…..

    I hate this show. The characters are tooo lame for my liking. Plus…. the main character (Leonard) is such a fake geek/nerd. He’s annoying.

    I can only watch “Heroes”

  95. B wrote:

    Someone earlier mentioned Sheldon being a walking caricature of autism, and I actually came across a forum today where people with asperger’s and people with loved ones with asperger’s were praising BBT for showcasing an “aspie” (I had not encountered this shorthand before) without making a big deal out of the fact that he has asperger’s. They liked that his friends knew how to deal with his quirks and yet still treat him as they would anyone else. They also liked that he was shown living a fully functional life and wasn’t treated like he couldn’t do anything.

  96. Michelle wrote:

    The actress who played Lily’s friend is Ryan Bathe. And it begs the question, why hasn’t she been asked back to HIMYM? I thought she was great.

    For that matter, I have simply stopped watching all White shows. Even if they have one token somewhere in the mix. I just feel like that is one tool that I have in fighting racism. I just can’t stand one more show that has some blond chick (smart or not) that is the most beautiful and desirable girl on the show or in the world for that matter. Tired of it. Done.

    If the networks didn’t deal in tokenism so much, then characters like Raj would be allowed to have a lot more room and therefore they could been much more nuanced.

    By the way, I am total Black female nerd. And fyi, I went to college looking for Dwayne Wayne. AND, I once met this GORGEOUS model guy…tall, dark, built for sinly things, and you know what, he wasn’t the brightest bulb in the tanning bed. After 7 minutes on the phone, I was done. Went back to the nerdy, geeky guys with a quickness. Just saying.