Ask Racialicious: Should I Be Offended by this Joke?
by Latoya Peterson
Earlier this week, I received an email from a new reader:
Hi Latoya,
My name is B and I live in Florida. In fact, the neighborhood where I reside is a very desirable, mostly residential area centrally located near downtown and only a few short minutes to our lovely beaches.
The reason I am writing is because I just received the current issue of our neighborhood newsletter. The publication is several pages long and is in a glossy magazine style format. It is widely read not only by the neighborhood residents but also by other neighborhoods because of a general curiosity of all the events that take place here year round.
Well, each month, a regular feature is written called “Mr. Trivia, things you need to know, things you wanted to know, things you would care less if you ever knew!” I read it regularly and consider it mildly entertaining. However, this month, I was left with distaste after reading its opening paragraph.
It reads:
“Senor Trivia est en Mexico on vacacione. He has ad to muy tequila. He as me too rite de newleter fo viktor pak. I not god en Englsh. He sho me ow to copy on cumputr. I hop u lik me yob. Senor Mex trivia.”
The article then continues in its regular format citing various facts and then ends with:
“I ride burro now and bring this to u.
Gracias.
Senor Mex trivia.”
I mentioned my dissatisfaction about the article to a friend and she felt I was overreacting. I’d considered writing the editor of the newsletter stating that I thought it bordered on a negative racial stereotype, though I have held off from doing because of my friends comment about my “overreacting”.
What do you think?
I wrote back:
Hello B,
Thanks for writing.
You were right to feel offended. Here’s why:
Race based humor is a tricky subject. However, there are some very clear signs when the joke shifts from humor into racism.
One way to tell is to ask “Is this joke still funny if I don’t know the stereotype?”
Our publisher Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote a popular post on 5 New Rules to Deal With Race at Work and included a tip on how to react to a racist joke:
Rule 3: When someone tells a racist joke, play dumb.
Figuring out how to react when a co-worker makes a racist joke is tricky. If you don’t call the person out on her racism, you seem to be condoning the behavior. But if you do say something, you risk alienating him and sabotaging your working relationship.The best response to a racist joke should accomplish 3 things:
1) Communicate that you find this behavior unacceptable.
2) Demonstrate that the joke is racist.
3) Inflict as little damage as possible to your working relationship with the joker.My recommendation? Play dumb.
Put on a bewildered expression, act as if you don’t understand the joke, and ask your co-worker to explain it to you. He will not be able to explain why the joke is funny without evoking a racist stereotype. You can then question the veracity of this stereotype, thus pointing out the racism of the joke, without being confrontational and without humiliating your co-worker.
Racist jokes rely on an unspoken, shared knowledge of racist stereotypes. Without the stereotypes, there is no humor.
Also, check comedian Kate Rigg’s take on the subject when she talked about the difference between humor involving race and racist jokes (strong language!):
Kate, was Sarah Silverman saying “chink” in her one bit about jury duty different from you saying chink?
KR: You know what, it actually was not. Because her joke was not about the word “chink,” it was about racism. It was actually a very good joke, a very socially responsible joke. And everyone freaked out : “She said ‘chink’!” I’m offended when I see comics get onstage going “…and then I went to the Laundromat. Ching-chong, ching-chong, ching-chong!” Then I’m fucking offended. When someone tells a joke about Asian people and there’s no actual joke – the joke is the Asian people. The joke is [racist-comic voice] the funny way they talkie-talkie! “They don’t use proper diction! Only verb and noun! Verb and noun!” I just heard a comic that I respect doing that fucking joke the other night. An Asian comic. And I was like, “Dude! Write a punch line or you’re just being racist!”
—
So that was my take readers. Feel free to add your own in the comments.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Jess wrote:
I liked the distinction — and that’s why I found Silverman’s joke funny, because as you note Silverman’s premise is about the racism rather than about the people.
It’s also why I think Carlos Mencia was right on when he did the “hidden camera” joke with the California DOT (the one where he tracks the origin of those signs showing silhouetted families across roads) and was off on the stuff he does about Arabs and Middle Easterners.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:16 am ¶
PatrickInBeijing wrote:
AH!!! I loved this post. Latoya, I too use the “play dumb” strategy. I am probably not as nice as you, so I may push it farther and farther (ie, not letting the person end the conversation when they get uncomfortable). It generally stops people telling such jokes around me. Which is a relief. And much desired.
Dear “B”, heck no you were not overreacting. My reply when accused of overreacting is to arch my eyebrow and say “oh, really, and I thought I was underreacting, no one died, after all”. Then I laugh. (Ummm, this is not general advice, you have to be careful how you do this). At this point people usually back off and say something like “okay, okay, I get it….. jeez don’t be so sensitive”…. or whatever.
It seems to me that there is a value in removing such “jokes” from circulation, even if no minds are being changed. At the least I want to send a signal that i consider such language disgusting and am offended (without starting a physical fight). (I should note that I am white).
If people at least have to stop and look around to see who is present before they tell “jokes” like this, they are beginning to acknowledge that there may be something wrong with them. I think that there is value in this.
So, “B”, speak up, overreact some more!!!
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:22 am ¶
Fiqah wrote:
Stop. PLAYING.
::: shakes head :::
This is why this native Floridian fled thirteen years ago.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:29 am ¶
rob wrote:
I know Im probably going to be on my own here but I can’t see that the joke is particularly offensive. All it really does is play on ‘poor’ english skills. I say ‘poor’ because senor mex trivia’s english is much better than the majority of americans spanish.
Senor mex trivia is not made fun of or abused. The joke is not on him. The joke is the the pronounciation and mis-spelling of words. It is very close to how many many spanish speaking peoples speak when they communicate in english. That sounds a bit funny when you read the story in your head. I have spent a lot of time with a lot of people from all over the world and the way that people talk if they come from somewhere else, especially when you hear them talking your language will sound strange and funny. Im not saying that you should laugh in their faces, of course not. but it is ok to acknowledge that its different.
Ilive in a country where I have to spend a lot of time talking not in english, people, especially my friends always think it is hilarious when I am speaking the native language and never hesitate to tell me so.
Its ok to have a laugh about this subject. Senor mex trivia was not made out to be stupid or idiotic (I would need to be shown how to do anything more complicated than this on a computer), and as far as stereotypes go the joke would work equally well with sake in japan, beer in australia or espressos in italy. As far as stereotypes go the way people talk, with no other negative stereotypes or forms of abuse included, seems a pretty trivial one
If you have to ask whether or not to be offended then you probably shouldnt be.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:34 am ¶
ceecee wrote:
Boy, I wish I used this approach when calling out a coworker for using an unfair generalization in an lame attempt at a joke. He tried to turn it around to make me look stupid. I held my ground but I didn’t convey him to as clearly as I would have liked to because I was riled up.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:34 am ¶
ceecee wrote:
sorry about the typos! meant to write:
I held my ground but I didn’t convey to him what I felt about what he said as clearly as I would have liked to because I was riled up.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:35 am ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
Okay, Rob, it’s official. You are no longer welcome to comment here on this site as you seem determined to hold on to whatever ideas you have about race and racism.
I appreciate you interacting in a civil manner, but I just outlined exactly why the joke is racist. And this is not the first thread I have seen you defend racist practices with what comes down to “it’s all in good fun.”
You’re banned from commenting until further notice.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:39 am ¶
Ziggy wrote:
This is a great post! I often wonder how to point out racist humour without looking humourless myself. I will definitely try the playing dumb approach next time.
B – write to the magazine! If no one speaks up this kind of dumb-ass “humour” will just continue.
Racist humour is frightening because it makes funny and accessible a mode of thought that is, basically, bad. It just pops up in otherwise innocuous situations and totally ruins your enjoyment of, say, a good movie or something. In Knocked Up, there’s a throwaway joke about how Seth Rogen’s housemate’s beard makes him look like someone from the middle east and Rogen’s character asks him if he gets really pissed off when he sees women driving. How is that not racist? And the casual, throwaway quality of it makes it even more disturbing. Casual racism is scarier than calculated racism.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:52 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
What I would do in this case is send a letter/email to the editor saying:
“Your joke was insulting to Latinos, racist and deeply stupid. You should apologize.”
My opinion is that people can’t waste too much time thinking how to most effectively counteract each and every instance of racism encountered. If you take that approach ALL the time, it’s exhausting, and half the time you give up and end up not responding because you get too frustrated. A short, swift response might not be ideal, but it’s better than nothing.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:53 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Thank you Latoya. I was just about to respond (pointlessly, I realize, but sometimes my head needs more brick-shaped lumps).
The contecnt and the moderation is what really distinguishes Racialicious and ARP from most blogs.
On Topic: B, write that letter, and don’t apologize or mince words: it is not “borderline” racist, it IS racist. Burro? Not knowing how to use a computer? Broken English that comes out of a cartoon or a South Of The Border bumpersticker, instead of how people who really DO speak ESL talk? The regular writer is in Mexico and he just happens to find a Mexican substitute?
The fact that you question might mean that you try to find the best in people. But it’s also your community, and you want to be proud of it. It’s hard to criticize something or someone you love, but honestly. since noone and nothing is perfect, honest criticism is the only way for it to get better.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:53 am ¶
Brandon wrote:
I think that Rob is completely backwards: if you have to question whether or not you should be offended… you ARE offended.
I think that another reason why the joke is offensive is because of the prominence of the language issue in xenophobic rants against immigrants. The “Why Can’t They Learn English?” argument is a favorite way for bigots to thinly veil their racism. Humor based on foreign accents and English proficiency is only a half-step removed.
I think that a good litmus test for these types of jokes, based on racial stereotypes, is whether or not the individual would still tell the joke if a member of the racial group serving as the butt of the joke were in the audience. So… if there were a Mexican immigrant family receiving the newsletter, would the Senor Mex bit stay in?
This is an imperfect test, of course. Some people are so clueless they would proceed. There is also the tendency for close friends to become immune… the idea that if you know someone well enough, you can be as offensive as you wish. (I can’t help but think of the Miley Cyrus picture here, even know I don’t know any of the background.) But in general, I think that most racist joke-tellers know enough to censor themselves in certain company, and so I think that serves as a good litmus test for how offensive the joke is.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 10:17 am ¶
Alpha Asian wrote:
Playing dumb? Jeez, why didn’t I think of that before? That’s actually great advice. I’m sure it takes some practice though. My first reaction to racist jokes is to be accusatory, but I can certainly see how it wouldn’t accomplish any change in the person.
Anyway, I think “B” in Florida shouldn’t definitely voice her opinion. Like they say, “Bad things happen when good people do nothing.”
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 10:56 am ¶
Joseph wrote:
@Brandon
“I think that Rob is completely backwards: if you have to question whether or not you should be offended… you ARE offended.”
You beat me to it: COSIGN.
@B
My cosign is not intended as a criticism of your confusion. I can identify with having a lack of clarity in the moment–the image I always use is that feeling you get when you open the fridge and something smells off. Even if you can’t point to it right away you know something ain’t right. Having to poke around to find it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
How someone reacts when you point out their racism gives you a lot of information about what you can expect from them. If I were you and the folks responsible for this newsletter were my neighbors I’d want to know where I stand with them.
I completely agree with Latoya’s assessment of this “joke” (And I am always happy to see that Kate Rigg quote again). I’d add that it seems to me to be classist and fundamentally anti-immigrant as well. I know from friends who have English as a second language that no matter how brilliant you are in your native tongue if you have any struggle whatsoever with English Americans assume you are stupid or simple. I do not think it is an accident that this particular racial and ethnic stereotype was used in the newsletter of your “very desirable’ Fla beach community…
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 10:57 am ¶
macon d wrote:
Jeezus Rob, you can’t be . . . for real. Are you? So good to see Latoya lower the axe on you a few comments later. You need help, go get some, find out what’s actually causing you to be so obstinate and passive-aggressively hateful.
Thanks for this post, excellent advice, and I really like the “play dumb” strategy, Carmen! That seems like a perfect way to point out the racist actions of people who would never, never EVER think of themselves as capable of racist thoughts and actions. Regarding the other advice in your article about keeping the larger organizational/institutional goals in mind, that larger context that individual anti-racist efforts affect: yes, yes.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:04 am ¶
E Grant wrote:
As a benefactor of just about all the priviledges you can think of, my first reaction is that the original joke is a bad idea to begin with because it picked “Mexican” as it’s humour vector–same joke idea might have been alright if it had been a 2 year old or a cat, or, frankly, a Kazahk (Ks are funny, Ms are not) and stuck to the mangled English.
The joke achieves definite fail when it gets to the burro: racist stereotype and boring.
Also: community newsletter is not the place to attempt this kind of thing.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:12 am ¶
Lisa J wrote:
B go for it, send the note. The piece was stupid, and offensive. Don’t feel bad for being offended either. That is how so many folks get away with keeping their racism going b/c no one says anything or they make the person who calls them on it feel bad for calling it out.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:12 am ¶
Monie wrote:
@atlasien
I agree about writing the letter and that the supposed joke is offensive to Mexican Americans.
I would add though that the joke is offensive not only to Mexican Americans but also to all that read it. The magazine that printed the joke assumes that everyone who reads it is a racist and enjoys racist humor.
Basically the magaazine insulted its entire readership as well as Mexican Americans.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:19 am ¶
Restructure! wrote:
I’m glad that I don’t lose anti-racist, POC, and Asian cred, since I loved that Sarah Silverman joke.
The first time Carmen introduced the “playing dumb” strategy, the first thing that came to my mind was that if the person was white and I pretended not to understand the stereotype, the white person may think that it must be because I’m a foreigner.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:25 am ¶
me and not you wrote:
um, what? You need to explain this:
“same joke idea might have been alright if it had been a 2 year old or a cat, or, frankly, a Kazahk (Ks are funny, Ms are not) and stuck to the mangled English.”
Why is it funny with a Kazahk?
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:43 am ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
Re “I thought it bordered on a negative racial stereotype”: I think it went well over the border into sombrero and burro land.
But I agree with Atlasien that “people can’t waste too much time thinking how to most effectively counteract each and every instance of racism encountered.” Trying to battle the newspaper is probably a waste of time. The most I’d do is write a brief message to the editor too. Don’t worry too much about the dinosaurs who perpetuate this nonsense; they’re on the way out.
On my website I post items such as this and let them stand as sort of a Hall of Shame. They and the accompanying analyses will be available to readers via Google for decades to come. Racialicious does this too, of course. It’s one way to turn a bit of racism into an educational moment for the masses.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:54 am ¶
the real patriot wrote:
Definitely offensive. Why do people use the same stereotypes over and over again, whether it be to offend Latinos, Blacks or Asians? Humor is not humor when it lacks intelligence. This is only vaguely disguised hate-speech.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 12:20 pm ¶
rachelef wrote:
Send the note, for sure!
My personal rule: if I have a gut reaction to something that says “shit, that’s rascist”, I will stop to examine why I thought that, but I usually end up concluding that I’m right. And then I find a way to confront the individual, if possible. Or, if its a popular joke or sketch or whatever, discuss the rascism (or whatever form of discrimination) with others.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 12:21 pm ¶
Renee wrote:
I had never thought of playing dumb when someone tells a racist joke. What a perfect strategy for making them own their behaviour while being intolerant of the racism itself. Thanks much I will definitely be trying that out.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 12:27 pm ¶
ktrujillo wrote:
“It is very close to how many many spanish speaking peoples speak when they communicate in english.”
You are unbelievably ignorant. Do you know that more that 30 million people speak Spanish at home in the country? And most of us speak English, too. And we can write, as well. Shocking, I know.
“I ride burro now and bring this to u. ”
Yeah, I hear people say this all the time.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 12:33 pm ¶
Luisa wrote:
This “joke” definitely struck me as racist. It certainly plays upon the stereotype that Mexico is a backward place where people don’t know how to use a computer and ride burros around. I’m pretty sure that the burro ceased to be a major mode of transportation in Mexico quite some time ago, if it ever was.
If this trash was delivered to my home I would have a fit.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 12:37 pm ¶
gatamala wrote:
B~ write the letter. This is YOUR community too.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 12:58 pm ¶
Yonnie3k wrote:
I wish that some of the “pundits” had been able to read this post while discussing the Mayor in California who emailed the picture of the White House with watermelon growing in the front yard. The Mayor (prior to resigning) said that he was unaware of any stereotype involving black people and watermelon. I called B.S. on that immediately. Without the stereotype, the picture made absolutely no sense – but no one (in the media that is) seemed to call him out on this fact.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 1:35 pm ¶
JLC wrote:
Unbelievable. The Sarah Silverman joke WAS racist. I saw her telling the joke and the audience’s reaction. People weren’t laughing at some poignant comment about racism, they were laughing because a woman said “chink” on TV. Haha! Do you really think that she would’ve used a derogatory term for blacks or jews or whatever? On broadcast TV? Never.
Disappointing.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 2:27 pm ¶
Latoya Peterson wrote:
@JLC –
I understand your reaction. The response is divided on that joke, and I think that speaks to the role of audience reception outside of a performers intent. I liked Kate’s quote as it provides a very clear description of why ethnicity jokes are racist, but I wish she had picked a less ambiguous example.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 2:37 pm ¶
Daniel wrote:
Depending on the joke, it can be pretty dumb so playing dumb might actually be the appropriate response to it. However, there are some that are very disgusting and degrading (especially anything involving race + gender). Uusually jokers are sort of cowards where they will only express their humor in “safe” conditions, so playing dumb might be the best option to go. Sometimes I give them the cold shoulder. Calling a person out or going tic for tac may or may not make things worst, depending.
There isn’t a wrong or right per se regarding the subjective opinions about these type of comedians. There are people out there who like and do not like Carlos Mencia. Same with Sacha Baron Cohen, Dave Chappelle, etc. Many who are quite popular and for those who like it , ok–whatever, for those who are offended, that’s your personal feelings and nothing wrong with that. Sometimes, the attitude whenever people discuss this subject it’s as if there needs to be central-authoritive line, a sort of consensual opinion, but entertainment in general is subjective. No one can force you to like it or not.
Some that are clearly hateful, most people, even Whites, Majority, Elite, etc. will also recognize it. It’s just whether or not and how people will respond. The tricky ones, well, it’s really your own call. The fact that some of these jokers have to be tricky and disguise it somehow is already a sign of their awareness of potential issues. Whether they care or not is another matter.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 2:47 pm ¶
Paz wrote:
“Don’t worry too much about the dinosaurs who perpetuate this nonsense; they’re on the way out. ”
The number of hate groups have been on the rise since 2000. And with the economy the way it is, immigrants or anyone viewed as “other” typically become the scapegoats.
B – Please write the letter. This incensed me. I have seen many immigrants, including my mother, feel intimidated about speaking English in public for fear of being looked at strangely or criticized. One family friend is going to college and once in class, she I think asked a question or started to give a presentation or something and the prof interrupted her and asked the class, “Now can anyone understand what Lupe is saying?” Holy fuck. And people complain that immigrants refuse to learn the language.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 2:50 pm ¶
Slush wrote:
I like the ‘playing dumb’ technique a lot, but it’s kind of a strange piece of advice here since it would be unresponsive to the situation that B found herself in. There was no one to play dumb to, except herself. Also, the joke does not require insider knowledge of particular stereotypes that could be drawn out by someone ‘playing dumb.’ It’s just about poor English. There are the allusions to stereotypes like the tequila or the burro or whatever, but they subsidiary components, and you could nearly make the same joke about Angela Merkel. It’s a terrible joke; it’s just not clever or funny at all, and I do in fact think it’s anti-immigrant and/or racist. It’s really just mean-spirited and stupid. But playing dumb doesn’t help much.
I definitely agree that if you are caught wondering whether or not you should be offended, you should be. If you shouldn’t be, it wouldn’t have occurred to you. And, what’s the harm of writing a letter? What’s the harm of overreacting, even? Your response will surely make people stop and think. Even if they then write you off as uptight, so what? They’ll be less likely to do similar things in the future – around you at the least – and likely to reconsider their behavior in other situations too.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 2:53 pm ¶
Winn wrote:
@Latoya,
Thank you.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:21 pm ¶
Free wrote:
Hello B – I applaud your courage for questioning what is obviously socially acceptable in your neighborhood. The editor would not have printed that “joke” unless he or she thought that the readership would be receptive.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:23 pm ¶
atlasien wrote:
Even though lowercase rob has been banned, I wanted to address one thing he brought up…
The one correct thing he said in an otherwise monotonous racism apology was that it’s OK to make jokes about these subjects. Jokes using stereotypes are not necessarily racist when the stereotype is the medium of the joke, not the joke itself.
For example, this involves nearly the same joke as the racist column. But it actually works.
There’s actually a much funnier La Cucaracha strip I can’t find online that involves Wolverine showing off his claws in a landscaping labor pool pickup line.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:27 pm ¶
March3209 wrote:
I think it takes a lot of control to use the “play dumb” approach. I’d be incensed.
From the link:
Suddenly, it’s okay to say “kike” and “chink” and “dyke” – but you can’t say “nigger?” Suddenly, you’re starting to quantify racism.
–Who said it’s OK to use the words? And the n-word is uglier than the preceding terms because of its history as well as the continuing low status of black people in America, which lags behind that of Jews, Asians and gays.
–I also disagree with what she said about Michael Richards. I’m just as afraid of a group of white corporate males softly uttering or thinking the “n-word” behind closed doors as having it screamed at me.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:34 pm ¶
March3209 wrote:
BTW, the letter was clearly racist.
Another problem with the playing dumb approach (I’m not saying that it will never wor, but it has some obvious liabilities):
It assumes that the racist joke teller is sufficiently intelligent to be confronted. Or that s/he cares.
What if you say something like:
That joke makes an assumption that all Mexican people speak English poorly and the person responds:
Well, don’t they? All the Mexicans I meet are uneducated, etc.
Unless you’re prepared to have a statistics-filled debate without getting furious, you’re not going to win, and maybe not even then.
I think it may be better to just look shocked and walk away. Nine times out of ten these people know exactly what they’re doing.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:44 pm ¶
March3209 wrote:
I was in a school setting (adult continuing education) in which a black woman in her late 20s joked that all Mexicans looked alike.
I’m African American and I simply couldn’t believe it. What made it worse was that a South Asian woman was there. She put on a frozen smile.
I was angry and the woman who made the comment is a friend of mine (not a good one). The best I could do was to laugh in a phony way and to say, “Oh, So-and-So, you must be kidding. What if someone said that about black people?”
She kind of laughed and sort of apologized. Although I realize that being direct and justifiably angry does sometimes do more harm than good and can be downright harmful in a work setting, being “diplomatic” is a real strain.
People should not be making remarks like that in this day and age.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:53 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:
In all-white situations (I am white), I put on a stone face and keep talking as if I never heard the rude one tell the rude joke. If the person says “Don’t you think that’s funny?”, I answer simply “No”, and move on. There’s a certain “I’m a little snot, and I am getting away with it, nyah, nyah” aspect of telling such jokes, and denying the teller a reaction spoils it for the teller (somewhat).
Yes, I can hold my temper.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 7:22 pm ¶
Lorraine wrote:
I got Carmen’s ways to respond to racist jokes in an email a few months ago. I thought it was brilliant. My extended family sometimes uses racial humor.
We both decided to start using the “Play Dumb” response. I love that so much.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:17 pm ¶
PatrickInBeijing wrote:
As an English teacher (who is also a Chinese student), it is NEVER “okay” to make fun of someone’s language skills. No one has ever laughed at my Chinese. I would never laugh at one of my students. Thanks again Latoya.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 11:47 pm ¶
amory wrote:
@ Joseph: love the stinky fridge analogy.
@ Latoya: thank you for being such a rad moderator.
I really loathe Sarah Silverman. I think that even though she is clever she is very arrogant, and oblivious to her white skin privilege. IMO much of her humor perpetuates more violence (which she isn’t subject to but *is* privileged by) than not. Either way I feel like it’s not really her place to use racist weapons “cleverly” when those weapons can’t be turned against her and only add to her unearned privilege. Or whatever. I’m not putting this as well as I’d like to but yeah. Don’t like her, think she’s arrogant. She could put her clever to better use.
And B, I hope you do write a letter. This is totally offensive, and I agree w whoever said that it assumes a white supremacist/ white-identified “audience”, uses all these old MinuteMen-newsletter-sounding stereotypes, etc. etc.
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 1:11 am ¶
Westerly wrote:
Sometimes the ‘explain it to me’ approach works. Other times, it’s best to coldly cut the teller off or even interrupt them as if what they are saying (and where they are heading) is of no consequence. (Of course, it has it’s draw backs.) The main thing is that those kinds of jokes rely on a cosy consenus or at leat maitaining or not disrupting the illusion of consensus.
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 5:17 am ¶
Rami wrote:
Great post. Unfortunately, at various times throughout American history, it has become “socially acceptable” to be racist. The examples are too many to list, but a few examples include anti-Asian sentiment during WWII, anti-Latin sentiment in recent times due to misinformation about job availability, and anti-Arab sentiment starting during the 1970’s oil embargo through recent days due to the misinformation about “terrorism”. All of these are shameful chapters of our history.
It is up to each and every one of us to continue to fight for equality and justice by pointing out even the most minor offenses.
Great job.
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 11:34 am ¶
Restructure! wrote:
@amory
Aww, damn. I love Sarah Silverman. I really identify with her style of humour, probably because I used to make jokes in that way, which people did not get and thought I was being serious (and therefore idiotic). I don’t do it anymore, because it makes people think I’m dumb. Also, “getting” those types of jokes require already knowing why those things are problematic, so you don’t end up changing any minds.
I also like how she’s evidence against the stereotype that women are not clever enough to be comedians. (Usually, when a man says that I have no sense of humour, it’s because I didn’t laugh at his unfunny joke. When I deadpan a joke or sarcastic remark, he “corrects” me because he doesn’t realize I’m joking.)
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 12:02 pm ¶
Elton wrote:
And here I was thinking I was the only Asian who “got” the “I love chinks” joke.
For the record:
I got jury duty … and I didn’t want to go, so my friend said, “You should write something really really racist on the form when you return it. Like, you should put ‘I hate chinks’.” And I said, “I’m not going to put that on there just to get out of jury duty. I don’t want people to think that about me.” So instead I wrote, “I love chinks.” And who doesn’t?
* The Conan O’Brien Show (11 July 2001) The network and O’Brien apologized for airing this statement, Silverman did not, stating that it was plainly satirizing the racist thought process.
P.S. Could someone tell me how to make block quotes on this site?
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 2:47 pm ¶
Daniel wrote:
This may sound a bit antithetical to this website’s theme, but I ponder a while but I think a lot of people in this society (US, well pretty much anywhere) are becoming too desensitized regarding racism and other forms of bigotry.
With the media culture constantly pouring down images, it takes more to actually move people. As if bigotry only becomes a problem when violence is involved, but people often ignored these “little actions”. Many overlooked how many “big events” started out with the ” little actions”, like degrading jokes, questionable imagry, etc.
In terms of actual information, if I have to put guess a number, I Say 90% of whatever the media outlets present is really nonsense, questionable or far too exagerated. Thanks to the internet, higher education institutions, the telephone, etc. if one wants to get credible, detailed information, it’s available and most of the time, once people know the real story, it makes all these media outlets look like child’s play. (not all the time, but relatively speaking).
It might not work for everyone, and it doesn’t have to go that extreme, but here’s a suggestion people can experiment with. Try not watching any TV and movies, and use the internet and listen to the radio when it’s necessary such as work, weather, news “summaries”, etc. for ONE WEEK. There’s a lot that one can do for entertainment besides watching a screen or comedy shows. I tried it before and many others have confirmed it as well that they feel different, most of the time in the positive matter. It’s sort of like recycling your mind and unwiring the tangled nets of unpleasent memories.
After that, one can often see such offensive materials in another light, like it might become easier to brush it off or be more creative in dealing with such actions. Maybe.
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 3:20 pm ¶
Dee Galloway wrote:
@ March3209
I don’t believe that one racist term is worse than another. As a black lesbian I’m certain I would be no less offended by the d-word than I would be by the n-word.
I’m thinking perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you meant by this?
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 3:32 pm ¶
Rob Schmidt wrote:
Re the dinosaurs: I’ve blogged about racism in the “post-racial” era (http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2008/11/racism-lives-in-obamamerica.html) and recent reports about hate groups (http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2009/01/hate-abounds-in-post-racial-america.html). I have no problem saying racism persists despite Obama’s election. I think events such as 9/11, the immigration debate, and the election have emboldened racists to speak out.
But racists more willing to express their feelings is one thing. An actual increase in the number of racists is another. I’d be skeptical of any claims that some new body of racists came into existence during the Bush era.
Really…these people had no racist feelings before Bush took office? But the events of the last eight years transformed them from believers in racial equality to believers in white superiority? I suppose that’s possible, but I have to doubt it.
Regarding the increase in hate groups, here are some links about this claim. Note that the Southern Poverty Law Center’s study doesn’t address some obvious points. The number of hate groups may be up, but what about the total membership of these groups? Or the number of hateful acts by these groups? I don’t think a single statistic can tell the whole story.
http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/02-26-2009/0004979395&EDATE=
The number of hate groups operating in the United States continued to rise in 2008 and has grown by 54 percent since 2000 — an increase fueled last year by immigration fears, a failing economy and the successful campaign of Barack Obama, according to the “Year in Hate” issue of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Report released today.
The SPLC identified 926 hate groups active in 2008, up more than 4 percent from the 888 groups in 2007 and far above the 602 groups documented in 2000.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/michael-m-bates/2009/02/27/cnns-pilgrim-debunks-hate-group-hysteria-peddled-cnns-sanchez
The FBI does not recognize the term “hate group.” They told us they do not monitor individuals or groups of individuals based on what they think or they say, or because a group or individual espouses a cause. It’s only when a line is crossed and when an act of violence is committed.
Now, by that measure, hate crimes are going down. The FBI uses data collected by state and local law-enforcement agencies, and this is what we’ve found. In 1995, hate crimes totaled 7,974. In 2007, 12 years later, they totaled 7,624. That’s a decline of 4 percent.
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 5:57 pm ¶
Restructure! wrote:
@Elton:
w00t. That makes at least two of us.
It’s called the blockquote tag.
Posted 07 Mar 2009 at 7:30 pm ¶
kakodaimon wrote:
@JLC
Actually, yes, Sarah Silverman uses the word “kike” as well.
Posted 08 Mar 2009 at 1:56 am ¶
Nathan wrote:
As far as the joke goes, that certainly didn’t pass the sniff test. Especially once the missus clued me in on just what a ‘burro’ was…… (what can I say, I’m pig-ignorant)
‘One way to tell is to ask “Is this joke still funny if I don’t know the stereotype?”’
Well thats a great concept I’ll keep in mind next time I’m unsure about a joke I’m hearing (or possibly telling).
Posted 09 Mar 2009 at 6:52 am ¶
Starlet Harlot wrote:
Thanks Heavens “rob” is finally banned and good riddance!
The “joke” is appalling and I agree with Kate Rigg.
Recently my brother tried to tell me an “Asian joke” the entire “punchline” of which relied on the stereotype of “Asians talking funny”. It was pretty clear immediately where it was going and I told him I didn’t want to hear any of that racist shit. He kept on going! We were in the car at the time so I couldn’t escape and even though I stated repeatedly he might as well stop cos I didn’t find it funny, he just followed the joke right through to its extremely unfunny conclusion. I didn’t laugh and he sat there chuckling to himself like a chump while I just looked at him in disbelief. Arg, sorry, total tangent but rob’s behaviour reminded me of it – that sort of obnoxious penis-waving in the face of blunt criticism.
Australian comedy shows often rely on racist stereotypes and racism for the “gags”. There was a live skit show I absolutely loved as a teenager in the 90s and watching a few DVDs of it recently I was appalled to see just how horribly racist it all was – there were even some blackface performances!! – and remember that I used to laugh. I can’t see the humour any more – where’s the wit? Where’s the commentary? Where is there any subtlety or nuance or anything involved other than laughing at people for being “different”?
So no, B was not overreacting but I’m sorry her friend shamed her into thinking that she was. That tactic is not at all uncommon either.
Posted 09 Mar 2009 at 10:59 pm ¶
Nathan wrote:
@ Starlet Harlot
Regarding the Aussie comedy shows
Don’t suppose you’ve seen any Good News Week this season?
It has its moments of brilliance, but I’ve had more than a few “I can’t believe they just said something that fucking stupid” this season…
Posted 10 Mar 2009 at 1:46 am ¶
Nathan wrote:
Also @ Starlet Harlot
Btw, was it Full Frontal you’re talking about?
Posted 10 Mar 2009 at 2:07 am ¶
Gigi wrote:
I find this joke offensive and think that you should write a short note to the editor. This reminds me of the time I was at a construction site and I wanted to ask the workers a question. The contractor told me not to bother because they probably wouldn’t understand me anyway, implying that because they were hispanic, they could not understand English. I smiled and said, “oh, you must not realize that Spanish is my first language.” His jaw dropped, I walked away, spoke to the roofers, and came back with drinks for all of them every day they were on the site. My relationship with the contractor was never the same, but I had to speak up – the fact that I am not as recognizable as others does not remove my responsibility to speak up. If it’s offensive, it needs to be addressed.
Posted 10 Mar 2009 at 8:13 am ¶