Open Thread: Chris Brown, Rihanna, and Domestic Violence

by Latoya Peterson

The story, according to People Magazine:

Sunday night, R&B’s hottest couple, Chris Brown and Rihanna, were supposed to light up the Grammys.

Instead, the normally affectionate twosome were embroiled in a domestic violence drama that left Brown, 19, booked on felony criminal threats charges and posting $50,000 bail after turning himself in to the LAPD on Sunday at 6:34 p.m. PST.

Sources say that Rihanna (real name: Robin Fenty), 20, was the victim in the alleged assault which occurred around 12:30 a.m. on Sunday. Responding to a 911 call about a disturbance, the LAPD took statements from a female with visible injuries, who named Brown as her attacker.

Chris Brown has turned himself in; Rihanna has canceled some high profile performances as well as her birthday party. Rumors are swirling, and there isn’t much confirmed. They have not even confirmed that the “female with visible injuries” was Rihanna, though this is widely assumed to be so.

It is entirely too early to see how this is going to pan out – no one knows if Rihanna will ever admit to being the woman who called 911, if the woman involved will press charges, or what will become of Chris Brown if he has to go to court.

However, one thing I do want to mention is how this could turn into a case study on how communities – especially communities of color, deal with domestic violence.

Journalist Elizabeth Mendez Berry wrote a piece for Vibe Magazine in 2005 dealing with domestic violence in the hip-hop community. In “Love Hurts” Berry shows how many of our beloved hip-hop icons barely bothered to conceal their physical aggression towards women:

BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP, many little girls pray for a new Barbie, an Xbox game, or a trip to Disney World. At age 7, Vanessa Rios asked only that “Papi would stop hitting Mami.”

It was May 1999, and Vanessa was staying with her aunt, Penelope Rios Santiago, in Miami. After Santiago overheard her niece’s bedtime prayer, she confronted her brother, Christopher Rios. His reaction? It wasn’t true, he said. Though he had much in common with other abusers, Christopher Rios was also different: He was Big Pun, a famous rap star. He first hit his wife, Liza, when she was 16, and over the course of their 1o-year relationship, she claims he sent her to the hospital three times and prevented her from seeking needed medical attention on many other occasions. “One time he told me to change the batteries in his beeper,” says Liza Rios, now 31. “I totally forgot about it, and he took this lead pipe and started swinging on me. I had my daughter in my arms, and I told Cuban [Link, who was there] to take the baby. After he finished beating me, my elbow was twisted out of place. I was limping for two months.” [...]

SEVERAL WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD relationships with well-known abusers declined to speak on the record for this piece and said they feared reprisal. The ex-girlfriend of a famed MC mentions a chart-topping rapper who attacked his wife (and mother of his children) with a champagne bottle; a multiplatinum producer tells VIBE matter-of-factly that he has seen many physical fights between artists and their romantic partners over the years. Neither witness cares to elaborate.

Berry’s piece is a much read, and while the circumstances surrounding this particular case are currently unclear, I’m wondering if this case will follow the same script of denial and secrecy as they have in the past.

UPDATE: Afrobella on stereotyping:

Take a gander at any of the popular gossip blogs right now, and read those comments if you want to feel your blood pressure rise. I’m not about to link to any of the posts that REALLY got my goat, but I need to get this off my chest. As a proud Trinidadian woman, a West Indian woman, a woman from the islands… I do NOT appreciate the stereotypes that are being thrown around by commenters seeking to condone or explain this act of violence. I’m seeing all kinds of nonsense. And I quote:

“He better watch himself, those island women are crazy.”

“Who didn’t tell chris that island women were nutso?”

“Caribbean women are crazy, she probably cut him.”

“That island b***h probably put some roots on him.”

“Chris Brown laying the SMACKDOWN on Carribean joints. [frank lucas voice]. My ni**a!”

Then there’s the other kinds of offensive comments, the ones that don’t just put the blame on Rihanna because she’s a “crazy island woman.” These other comments blame her simply because she’s a woman.

“She must have provoked him.”

“I believe Rhianna probably started it first and it got Chris mad. Rhianna looks like she is a ish starter.”

And my least favorite of all: “Its so stupid how if a man hits a woman its his fault and we should feel sorry for the woman. You all know how it goes, these hoes get snappy, she probably annoyed him and hit him herself. lol at everyone feeling sorry for Rihanna.”

Hold. UP.

Where do these kinds of twisted interpretations and stereotypes even begin? When did we get to this point, where we instantly blame the victim?

UPDATE 2: From Necole Bitchie, stereotype watch on Chris Brown:

Unfortunately, for Chris Brown, the longer he stays silent, the more time the media has to paint him as a criminal that’s dangerous to society. I’ve read over 50 sites that have used words like “woman beater”, “temper” and “monster” to describe Chris while using words like “poor girl”, “princess” and “victim” in their descriptions of Rihanna. After my last blog, I have to make it clear that I am not taking sides, I just feel that this story is very one sided and I put most of the blame on Chris’s team at this point for keeping quiet (under legal counsel of course).

UPDATE 3: Via Jezebel, “The LA Times is defending it decision to out Rihanna as the victim of Chris Brown’s domestic violence case. A reporter explains: “The Times has a blanket policy when it comes to not naming victims of sexual assault. There isn’t a set policy when it comes to physical assault or a criminal threat. In that case, there’s a decision internally and on a case-by-case basis of whether to name somebody. In this case, obviously there was a discussion among the editors about this. The nature of this case – against the backdrop of the Grammy’s, the delay in changing things, the explanations put out by both camps – the decision was made that this was fair game.” [E&P]

Update 4 – Necole Bitchie, on the rumors surrounding what actually happened:

Yesterday morning a few sites started reporting that the altercation started with a “booty call” from a female which set Rihanna off. Rihanna then starts to hit Chris while he is driving which caused him to crash into a parked car. He then gets out and tries to pull her out and she continues to hit him until he has no choice but to hit her back. Note: from the looks of the above photo, the car does not look like it was involved in a crash. (the spotting is from the cops dusting the car for fingerprints)

Also, yesterday I pointed out that the descriptions of Rihanna’s injuries change from day to day. The first day she suffered bite wounds, 2 black eyes and broken teeth. Later her injuries were described as two contusions on her head, a bloody nose and her lip was split. Yesterday, E Online! Reported that Rihanna claimed Chris said he was going to kill her and he choked her until she lost conscious. Does anyone see where I’m going with this? (What is the truth????). It reminds me of grade school when the teacher used to line us up and she’d whisper to the first student who would pass the message along until it reached the last student. When the last student revealed what she had been told, it was completely different than what the teacher told the first student. Catch my drift?

Where were their bodyguards or members of their entourage during the altercation?? I have a feeling that someone from their entourage assisted Chris with leaving the scene in the first place. Also, Rihanna was escorted to the hospital in an Escalade truck. From the photos at the gas station (taken the day before) their team of people normally trail their vehicle for security reasons. If Chris had time to get out the car, choke Rihanna until she was unconscious and leave her with black eyes, a split lip, broken teeth, bite marks and however many injuries the different outlets are reporting she had, I know someone had time to see what happened (outside of the car) and had time to break things up. Also, the police “supposedly” took photos of Rihanna’s injuries on the scene which they presented to the District Attorney’s office yesterday along with other evidence from the case. The District Attorney felt as though they needed more evidence and sent the case back to the LAPD for further investigation. In my opinion, this further proves that what’s been presented in the media has been overly exaggerated! No one has seen her injuries because the photos were kept sealed (with no copies made) so that they didn’t leak to the public. Where is the media getting their description of her injuries from?? Also, are there conflicting stories by eye witnesses?

(Photo credit: Popsugar)

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. Second Sponsor Bails On Chris Brown: ‘Got Milk’ Ads Pulled | Amy Grindhouse on 11 Feb 2009 at 3:50 pm

    [...] benefit of the doubt to than urban artists (one of my favourite race-relations blogs Racialicious has a fantastic write up on the stereotypes in the media reporting of this [...]

  2. Another DV news story » The Primary Contradiction on 13 Mar 2009 at 8:17 pm

    [...] the wake of the national dialogue/debate over the domestic violence charges against Chris Brown, there’s news of yet another [...]

  3. Beyond Gossip, Good and Evil : The New Agenda on 14 Mar 2009 at 7:30 pm

    [...] the “conversations” around Brown and Rihanna are often uncomfortably shrill. Blogs like Racialicious and Afrobella critiqued the media and online responses to the case. On the one hand, some convicted [...]

  4. Beyond Gossip, Good and Evil at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture on 24 Mar 2009 at 9:23 pm

    [...] the “conversations” around Brown and Rihanna are often uncomfortably shrill. Blogs like Racialicious and Afrobella critiqued the media and online responses to the case. On the one hand, some convicted [...]

  5. what it really is! Is it fair? : Abuse on 21 May 2009 at 7:50 pm

    [...] agree most people deal with domestic violence in the shadows. that why when I did my blog on Chris and Rhianna I think most people or being hypocrites, she is 21years old and most media outlets would like for [...]

Comments

  1. Eva wrote:

    @Latoya:

    You said exactly what I’ve been thinking regarding this case. It will be quite interesting.

  2. Monie wrote:

    The gossip blogs have lost thier minds over this and the comments on those blogs are just crazy.

  3. Daomadan wrote:

    Another issue I have with this incident is that many U.S. press sources named Rihanna when it is not customary (or legal?) to name the victim in DV or assault cases. They’re giving Rihanna little privacy or legal rights if they’re naming her as the victim in this incident. I know she’s from Barbados but I thought they still couldn’t name victims. Ah, the cult of celebrity…no respect for women’s privacy.

  4. jen* wrote:

    I just heard about this last night and my mind is still reeling. I so wanted it not to be true – for both of them.

    If what I’ve heard/read is true, I hope that they both get help and heal. But mostly Rihanna, cuz if it’s true – I’m on her side.

    Silence about DV really gets to me.

  5. Chris Chambers wrote:

    The scary thing is that irregardless of race of either, had she been a girl/fan he’d picked up or one of his handlers “fed’ to him, this would be less of a story, and his victim might be under severe attack. On the flip side, the average young man, black or white, can’t hire Mark Geragos of Scott Peterson fame. He’d be just another sick fool who brutalized a nameless, faceless girl.

    I wish more of our young men and women would get the Barack and Michelle memo. But that’s just fantasy, I suppose.

  6. Rachel wrote:

    I’m horrified by those comments, and also by the VIBE magazine article.

    I also wonder if the comments that are being attributed to Chris Brown, via an interview with Giant magazine he did a few years ago, are worth mentioning here – he talks about seeing his father abuse his mother, and how he told his mother not to go to the police.

  7. Maria_Elena wrote:

    I frequent many websites where commenting stupidity is kept in check, yet this one managed to sneak in:

    “Come on Chris. This is NOT how Barack and Michelle would handle a conflict.”

    What? I can’t even address the levels on which this is wrong(?) Offensive? Presumptuous??? I haven’t the words…

  8. c. wrote:

    @ Rachel — my friend told me about C.B.’s family background which quickly dissolved some of the anger I had toward him upon hearing of the incident. That doesn’t excuse his behavior, but it seems evident that there are deeper issues involved. Which is none of our business and yet it is because the media is having an orgy with it. Some of these rumors are ridiculous — herpes? Really?

    If this is all true, then it troubles me that the victim (apparently Rihanna) may drop charges…aside from that, I’m disgusted by the caustic racist and sexist comments coming from C.B.’s fanbase. Yuck. When will singers/rappers be held accountable by their communities?

  9. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Rachel: I read that. It was chilling. I don’t feel comfortable speculating about Brown’s past 9or his present really) but that was an interesting read.

    The contempt for women who are victims of DV in society at large is so sickening that it is beyond words.

  10. AnnaBella wrote:

    Great post. I’ve been finding it really interesting to see how a story about which there is really very little confirmed information available has become the subject of so much speculation and conjecture. The racialised and gendered narratives embedded in it are striking to say the least, as well. And it’s certainly shocking how cavalier the media seems to have been with Rihanna’s right to privacy.

  11. Black Dragon wrote:

    They’ll make an example out of him, its the thing to do with celebrities, especially the black ones. Bye Chris, keep your head up bro its going to be a long ride with women and non-minorities coming at you with pitch forks and torches. Regardless of what really happened.

  12. Iggles wrote:

    I’ve been reading about this case on various places online. It’s interesting how on blogs such as TMZ and Huffington Posts most of the comments are supportive of Rihanna. However, on black blogs such as Bossip and MTO there are many more outright Chris supporters and people posting STD rumors. On MTV.com the fangirls are defending DV on Chris’s behalf.

    While we don’t know the full story, the accounts of her injuries vs his lack of injuries definitely is *very* telling.

  13. Lola wrote:

    FYI, it was Chris Brown’s stepfather that abused his mother.

  14. Winn wrote:

    I don’t live in California and know nothing about their assault statutes, but here in Texas, it is not up to the victim to press or not to press charges; that is the district attorney’s call. This is precisely to prevent victims from being pressured, guilted, or coerced into failing to press or drop charges against perpetrators. There are myriad reasons why a victim might do this, and intimate partner violence remains underreported and underprosecuted in jurisdictions where the victim is forced to make this call. Please tell me this is not the case in LA, and that whomever the alleged victim turns out to be, the weight of this decision will not be left on her shoulders.

  15. Seattle Slim wrote:

    I had to write about those comments. I didn’t get a chance to see HuffPo or TMZ or PH comments but somehow what Iggles said kind of confirms what I knew. Those sites’ demographic would support her and Bossip’s demographic would of course attack Rihanna and it’s sad. I just have no words for how nauseating it is to see the self-hatred that runs so deep in these women. Latoya, I agree. This is a major case study in how the Af-Am community handles DV. And if these reactions are any indication, I weep for the women. Good God…

  16. CJ wrote:

    No one knows all of the facts, and I understand that domestic violence is serious, but I think it’s unfair to label him a complete monster who goes around beating women all of the time for this one instance. Sometimes, people blow up, regardless of age or whatever else, and sometimes they do stupid things. I feel for both of them.

  17. Lamees wrote:

    Apparently the LA Times are the ones who outed Rhianna.

    Also, she didnt call the police, a witness allegedly called. also the police took photos of her injuries. so they dont even need her cooperation at this point. Its up to the DA. and it seems they will proably go after brown.

    i saw the STD rumours-and alot of the support for Chris and attacks on Rhianna.
    this horrifies me, hopefully some good will come of the situation, at the very least some productive dialouge about violence against women/intimate partner violence

  18. aimerrouge wrote:

    1. In CA, it is illegal for the police to release the name of victims. blogs have guessing it is Rihanna. Given the flow of information/speculation that has occurred Rihanna is more than likely the victim.

    2. I visit Urban gossip sites, as well as Racialicious. It has been stated on one site that a “fixer” has been hired to plant the rumor that Rihanna has given Chris herpes as a justification for the domestic abuse. (Obviously, I have no way of knowing how accurate this is, but I have seen herpes mentioned in alot of places.)

    3. As a West Indian woman myself, I too get tired of the ridiculous ways we are presented. And, no, I’m not a vodoo expert or practictioner. I don’t know how to put roots on people.

    4. In the minority community, people often ask what the woman did to deserve this. I wonder what the fallout will be for both their careers.

    5. Chris and Rihanna are (were?) a beautiful, talented, Black young couple. I wanted their relationship to work because I think young Black people don’t see that type of relationship enough.

  19. pololly wrote:

    Ok,

    I don’t like this. I want to hear some details before we destroy the man’s career. I don’t even know why we’re calling him an unrepentant wife beater. Even using this as a case study or ‘time for reflection’ is implying he is guilty. We DONT KNOW.

    This just seems unfair somehow. I just feel like we should give him a chance.

  20. Iggles wrote:

    @ CJ

    I am reserving judgement, as much as I can but IF indeed it’s proven that Chris hurt her than I think it’s totally appropriate to label him a monster regardless if it’s just “one time”. A murderer doesn’t get a pass at his “first time”. A convicted rapists doesn’t get a pass from the DA because he only did it “one time”.

    These are serious charges and while there are clearly deep issues affecting both parties in this matter, I certainly don’t think he should get a slap on the wrist if this was his first time hitting a woman.

  21. Monie wrote:

    Unfortunately from what I’ve seen on the gossip blogs the majority of people are trying to make excuses for Chris Brown. I really don’t think this will have a negative impact on his career, other than losing a few endorsements ala Kobe Bryant.

    But Kobe has gotten more endorsements of late so even that won’t really be affected in the long run.

    Unless a celeb hurts an animal there are really no consequences for any bad action.

  22. Iggles wrote:

    @ aimerrouge

    I think it’s sickening the way the stereotypes are flying in response to this case. Regarding the characterization of west indian woman, I definitely noticed this in the responses. It seems like some african americans are closing ranks to justify the DV. If she was african there’d be disrespect to african woman. If she was african american, then they would be saying ish about light skinned woman. It’s so stupid and childish, and most of all sad to see that we as a community haven’t moved beyond this. This blame the victim stuff has got to stop, for real…

  23. Seattle Slim wrote:

    Iggles,

    Word. So much of it is projection. The people on his side 8/10 are projecting their own experiences. It’s heart breaking.

  24. glory wrote:

    I am heartbroken to see that people are using West Indian stereotypes to say it’s Rhianna’s fault.

    Anyway I do think that this is turning into a case study. And the things people are saying are disturbing.

  25. Asada wrote:

    I’m very angry,
    at this entire situation.
    I see his face and I swear he still looks like a kid. How did he get THIS in him? Ppl have been saying Rihanna and Chris are kids who should never have gotten so serious in so short a time. I wonder what they mean by that!!!

    He was marketed to be the good boy ( much like neyo) as opposed to the other major black R&B /hiphop/rap/whatever stars. I have no idea how or if he will be able to recoup his image. He was suppose to be a “safe” star and had MUCH respect in the business at a young age.

    FYI- they have been caling her Princess for the longest. Its usually a patronizing term. Dlisted.com calls her the “Alien Princess” or “Princess Forehead”.

  26. Kaonashi wrote:

    Iggles: Yes they would. Some of the hatred shown towards others is…pretty bad.

    I’ve been following this since Sunday and personally I’m disgusted by a LOT of the comments I’m seeing bantered about. No, she did NOT deserve getting beaten because of where she’s from, how she looks, or because she was dating Chris Brown and you aren’t. I won’t even get into the icons that show Rhianna as a bloody mess. What the hell is WRONG with people?

    Two things I know for sure:

    1. Apparently Rhianna is still in the hospital, so this is more than some bruises and scrapes. Considering how the “official line” at the Grammys was that both she and Chris were in a car accident, it’s probably really bad.

    2. According to a source at Ceders-Sinai (the LAST hospital I would go to if famous, ugh) Rhianna told the cops that it wasn’t the first time he hit her.

    3. Doublemint dumped Chris like a bad habit (which they should).

    It seems like the Brown Camp is waiting to see what Rhianna’s people are going to say before they make an official statement, and they aren’t talking.

  27. Big Man wrote:

    I’m going to have something on my site tomorrow about how these sort of conversations can get skewed. I think men and women approach this issue from two very different vantage points the same way white people and black people approach dicussions of racism from different vantage points.

  28. CEdwards wrote:

    I’m very concerned that we’re even having conversations such as, “hold on, we don’t know what the girl did.” Are we serious? I don’t care if she’s responsible for genocide in Darfur, no woman or person deserves to be harmed in such a way.

    I’ll be tuning in to hear from the men who apparently feel that there must be some “just cause” for things like this…

  29. Kandi wrote:

    @CEdwards – I second that.

  30. uh huh wrote:

    Um yeah, even if she really did give him herpes, that doesn’t give him the excuse to go kung fu on her ass. Even if she started hitting him, he could have stopped the car and walked out or called the cops on her. Please, his side of the story??? His side of the story doesn’t matter at this point in time, he beat her up! Nothing justifies that, nothing!!!!

  31. ceecee wrote:

    R. Kelly is still making music and people are still dancing to his hits in the clubs.
    Kobe is still okay. Chris Brown will probably get a pass in the black community which is quite unfortunate.

    Not from me though -throwing out all my Chris Brown cds-

  32. Kavita wrote:

    I definitely hope this incident opens up space for a conversation about how DV is dealt with in communities of color. I’ve talked to men that say even if their own sister was getting beat up by her husband, they wouldn’t intervene because “that’s her husband’s business.” Like basically, she is her husband’s property to do what he wants with. I also know how hard it can be to call the police on your man because of the distrust. Are the police just going to escalate the violence? I have a girlfriend who has been in this situations far too many times and she says the police make her feel like dirt and do nothing but tell her man to take a walk to “cool off.”

    What’s really sad though is the way some WOC normalize the behavior. I’ve been through this and I had friends tell me I just needed to learn how to hit back, that’s all. We need to get the message across that DV is not ok, ever, and teach each other how to recognize the warning signs. And men–well, yall need to start checking each other, for real.

    As for the legal aspect, in all criminal cases, its the prosecutor/State that chooses whether to pursue the case, not the victim. That’s true whether its DV or just regular old assault. Only in a civil case does the victim pursue the charges herself. However, many DV cases are not pursued by the prosecutor’s office because the victim is unwilling to testify, and without that testimony, the cases are often impossible to prove. But while I’m not discounting the need for the availability of criminal sanctions, I don’t think the legal avenue is the way we as a society are going to put a stop to this–it’s so much deeper than that.

  33. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ ceecee: No one is mad at Jackson Browne – he’s still playing shows. Kobe is playing basketball for everyone. Bonnie Prince Billy has no problem starring in an R. Kelly video (he loves him!). Josh Brolin? He’s back. Axl Rose: all is forgotten.

    It isn’t the black community alone that gives a pass to men who abuse women.

  34. aimerrouge wrote:

    Could the “fixer” be succeeding? The following was listed on another urban website. The comments posted in response have been horrible:

    ********* just received the real story of Chris Brown and Rihanna’s fight from a highly placed source in the Chris Brown legal camp:

    They were in the car leaving the Clive Davis party. While Chris was driving, he got a phone call from a young lady. Our source tells us that Rihanna knew that Chris had been messing around with this particular girl and she has, as of late, been the reason for many of their heated arguments. Rihanna got a glimpse of the phone, saw the name and number and immediately recognized who it was. She went ballistic and began to “beat the sh*t” out of Chris (while driving). She was so uncontrollable, that Chris began to fight back in self defense, which ensued the fight. Rihanna’s rage stemmed from Chris’ questionable fidelity in the last few months.

  35. Ayo wrote:

    @Iggles. You hit the nail on the head.

    The broad term “black” blinds outsiders from understanding the complex nature of relationships between what we actually are varying shades of brown.

    Why is it that most people (poc included) tend to acknowledge the prejudice of lets say american whites to french or spanish, but when it’d be African americans to carribeans, or carribeans to West Africans we don’t care as much; we won’t even see it as much of an issue when it really is.

    There’s noticeable animosity between different sets of brown folk which i think needs as much (probably more) work dealing with.

    I’m really really tired of this “lets not air our dirty laundry” bs.
    It’s not like we’re a united group anyway.
    you get AfAm who’ll hate on Carribeans and Africans immigrants working in the states. Coming from a west african family i know how illusory this sense of a “black” racial group is; members of my family on many occasions have aired ugly thoughts about carribeans. Going to a diverse school lots of African student whose accents stood out got really bad bigoted taunts from Carribean students, which confused the hell out of me for so long.
    Those comments you saw iggles don’t surprise me sadly.

  36. dori wrote:

    this is so sad.

  37. L. wrote:

    Ayo:
    Cosign 100%. And I really commend you for pointing out that it is present and pervasive in many of the African/Diaspora communities. My friend/roommate is of Nigerian descent. My mother makes off-handed, prejudiced remarks about her ancestry that really bother me. And when she does, I make sure she knows that I’m uncomfortable with them. Likewise, my friend walked into my room one day while I was watching TV and heard someone make a comment about African immigrants in America looking down on African-Americans, and she agreed that it was true. I don’t know if she witnesses that personally, but at any rate, I think the first step we should take in correcting this behavior and bringing about some sense of understanding and solidarity is to condemn prejudiced comments when we hear them coming from within our own community. We cant just settle for calling them out when they are against us. Also, I had no idea that those were some of the stereotypes of WI women. Nonetheless, it’s disturbing that they would use stereotypes in order to someway justify or explain this incident.

    Regarding the Chris/Rhianna (Chrianna?) conflict, I am fully expecting his fans to offer unwavering support a la R. Kelley (of course if this is true– and it’s shaping up to be). I think DV and other misogynist behaviors and attitudes are normalized in the wider African-American culture because it’s so tied up into definitions of black masculinity. From an African-American female point of view, we’re taught that, not only is this behavior acceptable, but that it’s what makes a man. And if we want a man (which, of course, should be our life’s purpose) and want to be able to keep him, we should cook and clean for him, give him sex, and take his abuse. And if we object, then we’re ungrateful bitches. And I know that’s true for non-WOC as well, but also believe that hypermasculinity and misogyny is more concentrated in the definitions of masculinity for MOC. Although, I understand that– in Chris’s case at least– it could be part of a vicious cycle (with him growing up witnessing his mother’s abuse). That doesn’t excuse his actions, but I do have more sympathy and understanding for him if this is the case seeing as though he knows that DV is wrong (or at least that’s what he told the interviewer).

    What I would love to see is other high-profile black male celebrities condemning the behavior as a response (in general, not just given the people involved in this case).

  38. Kaonashi wrote:

    L. You’re going to be waiting a while since people like T. I. and Terrence Howard are tripping all over themselves to defend Chris. Ugh. Tiny and whoever Mr. Babywipes is currently dating right now better watch out…

    Surprisingly, the only quote I’ve seen condemning this sort of behaviour so far came from Kanye West, who made his stance clear on Ryan Seacrest’s show this morning:

    Although West didn’t want to get into specifics, he said, “All I want to say is, it’s so devastating. Just as a person, I don’t care how famous she is or even if she just worked at McDonald’s … [abuse] should never happen. It should never come to that place.”

  39. gbw wrote:

    aimerrouge:

    That’s funny because she was assaulted after she walked the car. He followed her and began striking her. If she had “beat the s—” out of him in the car, it’s funny that he looked perfectly fine in his police station photos while she looks “horrific.”

    I have no idea what happened but I know nothing justifies his actions. Considering the promiscuity of the young Hollywood set, herpes is normal. 25% of Americans are seropositive even if they don’t all have symptoms. I find it hard to believe that it has anything to do with the matter since they were photographed together looking happy a mere 30 minutes prior to his arrest. There goes that argument.

    And really, bite marks? Busted lips? Giant bruises on her head? Seems hard to believe that this is a probably reaction to her supposedly hitting him though not hard enough to leave a mark. At most, she slapped him. I watched enough Ricki Lake and Jerry Springer in my pre-pubescent years to know that slapping, choking, scratching and kicking the groin are what women generally go for if they’re going to hit a man. They were in the car so the groin is out.

    I have no issue with labeling him a monster. I do the same of all wife beaters. Unlike most Americans, I don’t have a short memory. I still have never watched a Polanski movie despite many Netflix recommendations. I change the radio every time I hear Michael Jackson or R Kelly despite being a major fan of both years back. I loathe Jason Kidd.

    The girl on the train next to me yesterday said to a friend “I can’t believe she called the police” and went on to say that people shouldn’t call the cops the first time it happens. I gave her major side eye and she changed seats. Regardless of the prevalence, I don’t ever want DV to be acceptable.

  40. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Kaonashi: You know what? I kind of expect that from Kanye. But it’s still refreshing.

    You’re going to be waiting a while since people like T. I. and Terrence Howard are tripping all over themselves to defend Chris.

    This I kind of expect too. And if the allegations turn out to be true the “Rhianna knows he loves her” bit will be as disgusting and silencing as it seems. If someone busts your grape, it’s okie doke as long as you remember they still “love” you.

    The suffering of WoC never seems to be as important as not further tarnishing the oft maligned image of MoC.

  41. Iggles wrote:

    @ gbw

    Word!

    I boycott Roman Polanski films too. I don’t understand how people can defend men harming woman and children.

    I’m glad Kanye spoke out for Rihanna. Though others are silent right now, in the end Tina Turner came out on top. I hope when all come outs, IF Chris is guilty of what the initial evidence suggests I hope his career fades like Ike.

  42. JENA. wrote:

    After reading all the comments I wanted to add that I think many people of different social locations and positions are reluctant to call the police and wait for the legal system to protect their rights because of the low probability of it actually happening.
    Ideas of domestic violence as a personal,
    non-political, before law, matter is still stuck very much in 1950’s- prominent not only among certain ethnic groups, but also among rural folk and people that are indoctrinated with the sexist values of a patriarichal society.
    Even if the DA prosecutes and the victim tries to say that she is now pregnant, doesn’t want to press charges, and move on, the state still has an obligation pursue ‘justice’.
    Yet the lawyer of the defendant can still skew the jury and try to remove women jurors.
    I sat in a deliberation room for four hours as one of only 3 women trying to convince five stubborn men that violence had indeed occurred when a white woman was domestically-terrorized enough to lock herself in the bedroom and call the police, after a smashed windshield while driving, and the contents of the kitchen thrown about. He got convicted only of measly misdemeanor only through a technicality that he happened to have grabbed her cell phone from her hand in the midst of screaming and smashing her windshield. Otherwise, none of his other actions and emotional abuse counted under the law. Why is there legal difference between abuse and domestic abuse????
    The horrors of presenting the events over and over through redundant police reports and courtroom testimony is also reaffirming of trauma and victimhood and very hard to find hope or empowerment in.
    I have little ideas for conceiving a new way of protecting women’s rights, but I believe more men need to check their behaviors with each other, and quell the need to degradate women in order for them to bond or recognize each other’s manliness (as seen with my brother and dad).

  43. jvansteppes wrote:

    While I don’t condone domestic violence and I don’t support the notion that both Chris and Rhianna are suffering equally as a result of this story, I’m reluctant to call him a monster.
    Yes, if he’s guilty (and it looks to me like he is though I know info gets distorted) he is not so much a monster as he is a guy guilty of carrying out the violence so endemic to ALL fucked up gendered relationships in our culture.
    Its so common EVERYWHERE that instead of vilifying bad apples we ought to be encouraging a culture in which violence is not acceptable and men who abuse are supported in a path to not continuing that cycle. Of course, their victims also deserve the right to condemn them and be free of future abuse; everyone deserves that.
    But he isn’t some individual psycho, singling him out as a monster won’t address the bigger problem this situation embodies…

  44. maggie wrote:

    While I think critical discussions like this one, on DV in communities of color, are extremely important, I’d like to emphasize how universal this sort of woman-blaming language is across all color lines. I’ve worked in the field, in communities of great diversity in NYC, and have had to become attuned to cultural aspects and familial traditions that vary across different races and ethnicities, but so, so, so much of the anti-woman, quick-to-defend-the-male language is strikingly similar whether it’s coming from within wealthy, working class, immigrant, black, white, Asian, or Latino communities.

    I would also ask the (presumably male) commentors on this thread to take a moment longer to reflect before they chime in with the “whoa whoa whoa, wait a second, is this really DV or are we overreacting?” comments. Latoya recently reminded us that this is not the place for those who think we are “overreacting” about race, or “reading too much into things.”

    I would hope that this goes for issues of gender and sexism, as well. We cannot discuss and understand one system of oppression without being fully open to learning about _all_ others.

  45. coloredhoney wrote:

    monday morning, i ordered my coffee as usual from a jamaican spot around my way in an urban neighborhood. as a part of morning small talk i mentioned the latest surrounding c. brown and rihanna. the young man fixing my coffee, though he had not heard the story, immediately believed rihanna provoked him and pretended to be chris lifting his hand up and offering a slap and calling her b****h while laughing. it was a joke to him. and i was supposed to be cool with it. i didn’t go off but i expressed how i was disturbed by his reaction and he still laughed. it is common to walk down the street and over hear conversations between groups of young men calling women b******s and expressing with verve how they physically put their chicks in check. much of the time the women are very surprised to hear that you can be in a relationship where you’re not experiencing either verbal or physical abuse.

    i felt the l.a. times was remiss in mentioning rihanna’s name. and i believe there is an expectation in white media that black women should not expect discretion even when it’s legal protocol.

    i wonder what it will take for abuse against women to not be seen nor heard as action video-hot beat thrilling entertainment? revisit the notortious b.i.g.’s lyric: “kick in the door, waving the 44/all you heard was poppa don’t hit no more”

  46. Nathan wrote:

    How anyone could turn around and say this must be Rihanna’s fault is absolutely beyond me.

    I mean for for the love of little green apples, it wasn’t as if Chris Brown was the one that ended up with the massive facial injuries!

    How can people hold up things like ’she probably did something to annoy him’ as an excuse? Annoyance is never a justification, not even fora street brawl, but especially not when its someone manifestly unable to defend themselves against you. And when they same person is someone you’re allegedly emotionally invested in, well, its just sick.

    If someone wants to argue, well, argue away! But its never okay to short circuit things by trying to beat your way into dominance, its just wrong.

    And good on Kanye for making that statement, he got it in one.

  47. Nathan wrote:

    “Its so common EVERYWHERE that instead of vilifying bad apples we ought to be encouraging a culture in which violence is not acceptable and men who abuse are supported in a path to not continuing that cycle.”

    But are people really going to make much headway in breaking tack on the culture if bad apples AREN’T brought to light like this?

    I can’t help but feel that dropping the monster label would do more to encourage the current culture vis a vis domestic abuse than it would to encourage a new culture.

  48. Eathan wrote:

    Innocent until proven guilty.. unless the media has you on the evening news. It’s sensationalized 24/7.

    I’m waiting until the fact come out. I’m sure there’s more to it.

  49. Tracey wrote:

    I don’t know the details but do know that the discussions going on around this alleged event are already beginning to disturb me. I too have heard a lot of jokes about the supposedly volatile tempers of “Islander” women as a possible reason, and heard jokes being made about the incident.
    I am also worried that this incident will receive cover for the wrong reason and be portrayed differently by the media than had these allegations been made against a white male.
    It seems like when stories like these come out, I’m thinking specifically of Kobe Bryant and Clarence Thomas, women of color are accused of being traitors in sticking up for their rights and the rights of fellow women. As though POC and Woman are mutually exclusive and we must choose. I feel like we may be put in yet another situation (for lack of a better term b/c I feel this is an ongoing fight) where we denounce the mistreatment of women, critique the medias lack of response to DV, rape or the media’s mishandling of such stories and at the same time hold the media accountable for their often racist coverage and differences in covering stories dependent on race/social class.
    This really irks me, a lot. I could go on for a while about how this has seemingly played out in the past. I really don’t know that if this makes it into the mainstream news media (like CNN) that the women who received the attack will be portrayed as as much a “helpless victim” (though I don’t approve of this depiction and see how some advocates prefer survivor to victim) as if she were white/ not an “islander”. Also, I don’t know if they’ll be more critical of Brown than they would a white male in the situation ( I’m thinking they’ll at least focus on the cycle of violence angle).
    If this does play out in the past like Thomas who accused Blake of being out to “lynch” him (from a man who claims to detest the “race card”) or Bryant, where the argument was he wouldn’t need to rape anyone because he was so famous and could get sex from just about anyone (regardless that rape usually has more to do with power than lust or desire) WOC will once again have to stand up for their rights and equal treatment in the media as women, as WOC, and as POC.
    And I fear that the ongoing dialogue about DV that needs to be occurring will be obscured by people claiming we should not air our dirty laundry, that woc should be more supporting of moc (in this instance meaning that we should accept their wrong doings or at least not be so quick to take them to task for it or go to the authority/media),and also lost in jokes about the temper of “islander” women and how they can defend themselves. Never mind that even if it’s Laila Ali being abused by her partner, occurrences of DV is nothing to laugh at or brush aside.
    Also, there is the issue of how not only the media but the police/prosecutors often mishandle the situation or can’t be trusted to be productive/unbiased especially within communities of color/marginalized communities.

  50. Tracey wrote:

    Also, while I don’t want people supporting him “just because” and automatically saying the charges are false, I don’t know if radio stations should be so quick to stop playing his music or Double mint pull the ad campaign. There is the notion of “innocent until proven guilty” and pulling his music/ads seems to be underlined by the assumption that he is guilty which I don’t think should be necessarily promoted by the industry as of right now.

  51. Nelly wrote:

    Based on what I’ve heard, Bossip turned into a pit a while ago. I’d be hesitant to consider that blog (or any, really) representative of the Black response to this situation. And, while I’m relieved that people on TMZ and the like are showing sympathy to Rihanna, the cynic in me can’t help wondering if it’s simply because she’s a little more popular with them than Brown (and has a few more fans). If I remember correctly, people of all races were quick to defend Kobe Bryant because “he doesn’t seem like the cheating or rapist or abusive’ type” and “he could do better than some girl from Colorado.”

    It is certainly not my aim to sidesweep the problem of domestic violence and silencing in communities of color. I’m really just echoing Maggie’s point about the universality of these attitudes. I’m also remembering back a few years ago when I visited mainstream/predominantly White gossip blogs. There were a couple of pretty disturbing conversations regarding violence against women.

    As soon as I heard the news about Rihanna, I thought back to that time and to Teri Hatcher. In short, Hatcher was molested by her uncle as a child (a fact which she revealed in Vanity Fair). She found the strength to go to the authorities as an adult. Her uncle had victimized plenty of young girls, one of whom ended up committing suicide at 14. Thankfully, Hatcher’s bravery eventually helped get her uncle convicted.

    The responses to the article: “If it weren’t for Teri, that girl would be alive.” “Why is she so scantily clad on the cover?***” “She’s right to feel guilty over that girl’s death. It’s kind of her fault.” “She should have gone to the police sooner.”

    I could not believe the vitriol being slung at this woman. Hatcher wasn’t popular on those blogs anyway. Desperate Housewives was at the height of its popularity and there was definite backlash. But, I thought people would have the decency to let those feelings take a backseat. It was downright scary (especially considering how many of those commenters were women) and a major part of why I don’t visit those blogs anymore.

    I would never read about the Rihanna/Chris Brown story outside of a safe space like Racialicious, because I really can’t stomach those types of comments again. And, I really don’t know what’s worse: the thought of people blaming Rihanna being full-grown adults or the thought of people blaming Rihanna being tweens/teens (especially girls) who haven’t been taught that violence against women is never acceptable.

    *** And not that it makes a difference, but I wouldn’t really call this scantily clad. http://cache.defamer.com/hollywood/hatcher-VF.jpg

  52. texascowgirl wrote:

    Sean Penn abuses his wife Robin. Josh Brolin has hit and treatened Diane Lane. People said that Jennifer Aniston deserved to be cheated on because she wouldn’t give Brad Pitt babies, but none of those situations turn into discussions about pathology in the white community. In fact all of these men are rewarded with awards, adulation and very big paychecks. Mostly white Hollywood didn’t turn their backs on them so why would the hip hop/R&B community be any different? Patriatchy affects everything and there are few institutions that aren’t infected, if not run by it. The truth is just about any man could do just about anything to just about any woman and get away with it. Rich or poor, black or white. Men treat women like shit all over the world and women almost always take the fall for it. You think communities of color unique in blaming the victim and forgiving the abuser? Sexism and misogyny are the oldest forms of discrimination and hatred in the world. I’m all for talking about DV, but why does race or culture have to be apart of it? Last time I looked there isn’t a race or culture on Earth that doesn’t have rampent hatred and disrespect for women. Name one culture in which women are valued like men. If Chris and Rihanna were white, their situation would not be taken as an inditement on a larger community.

    I am not one of those people who doesn’t believe in “airing dirt laundry” or “protecting the brothers”, but the fact is once an issue gets painted with a black or brown face in this country, the larger society doesn’t care. Conservatives built hostility to social welfare programs by painting them with a black face in the 70s and 80s and all poor people suffered because of it. If we really want to deal with DV in this country we can’t racialize it because of racism and lack of concern for people of color. No one care enough about women of color to deal with our problems. I know there are rifts in the feminist comunnity, but we are going to have to team up with the white women on this. It is sad and unfair, but the face of the abuse woman can’t become black or brown.

    Also, if Rihanna has really dropped the charges as reported, I can’t feel sorry for her anymore. If you won’t fight for yourself how can you expect anyone else too? Maybe she can go back to Chris, get married, have babies and he can beat their asses too. And then they can grow up to be victims and/or abusers. There are two sick people in these sorts of relationships. I’m as tired of women who let themselves be beat as the men who beta them. If a man hits you once, leave! Because getting your ass kicked by the same person more then once doesn’t make any sense. I know people who were abused as children and they are as angry at their mothers as they are at their fathers. Hopefully Rihanna won’t become the kimd of woman who lets a man abuse her and her children.

  53. Michelle wrote:

    I don’t even have words for the notion that Rihanna must have some how provoked Chris Brown.

    But there are two things that I would like to add.

    I have an aunt that raised three boys. She NEVER told her sons not to hit girls. Her rule was, if she hits you, you can hit her back. Growing up I always heard that as barbaric, but now I wonder, was she being staunchly feminist in her logic? I say that from the point of view of this discussion, which is a larger context of DV in our communities and cultures and what conversations we are having with boys and girls, men and women. I have not seen pictures, nor do I have any knowledge of how severe Rihanna’s injuries are.

    Two, and here is where I actually take a small issue with calling Chris Brown a monster. He is 19. Now, I know most of you are going to go ballistic on me for bringing that up, but I bring it up because he is very, very young. And this is the age when DV begins, when young men start to live the patterns that they grew up seeing, and start to engage in behavior that has been condoned their whole lives. This is the age when a difference can actually be made in a young man’s life so that he doesn’t become a wife beating monster. In my world, 19 is still a child. And YES! HE IS OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER! I get it. But in the context of what we are talking about, and all the conversations that are floating out there about DV, is he really old enough to know better? Or is he a very new product off the environmental assembly line that produces these young people who are ill equipped for relationships?

  54. pololly wrote:

    I’m sorry but the majority of these comments are disgusting. I can’t bear Chris Brown. I think his music is crap and he’s an idiot. So I’m not a fan. BUT WE HAVE NO INFORMATION YET. Everyone has already assumed the entire story (which is exactly what his crazy fans are also doing just from the other side). And to apparently refuse to convict on the basis of all the overwhelming evidence (/sarcasm) is straight up is woman-hating?

    We can’t even give 2 19 year olds the courtesy of waiting for a) facts or even b) statements. They are both so young. I liked the fact that this hasn’t raised questions of relationship violence among youth which is actually relevant and woefully underesearched. Instead he is compared to much older people in completely different situations only because he is black and in R&B. Rihanna is not married to him, has no children to him, is not economically dependent on him, has her own representation protecting her and is not even similarly raised to him. How is this similar to Big Pun’s life? He’s not even hip hop. He’s just black. So what? Let’s talk about intimate partner violence among 13 – 20 year olds. People who are not economically linked even. Or we can just claim false similarities because they are both of color

  55. pololly wrote:

    I actually have a ton of literature on IPV among young people but I’m not at home. I might post it when I get home. It’s actually interesting stuff. There are quite a few groups really targeting it because general IPV groups make a bunch of assumptions which don’t hold for two 16 year olds (for eg. often there is no economic interdependency and the violence seems to escalate pretty fast).

    Also, both partners are more malleable at this age and generally have much more institutional contact for intervention. Just saying.

  56. Kaonashi wrote:

    So we should give him a pass for putting a young girl in the hospital because he’s young? Umm, no. And if the situation was reversed and HE was the one who ended up in the hospital I would feel the same way.

    If your partner angers you to the point that you seriously want to beat them, it’s time for you to leave that relationship PRONTO.

  57. Tami wrote:

    One thing that disturbed me about the comments on the top black gossip sites was the assumption that some level of violence in a black relationship is to be expected.

    I read a lot of: “You know how we black women are! You can’t tell me you’ve never [hit a man, slapped a man, pushed a man, pushed him to hit you.]” or “I told my son if a woman ever hits him to hit her back or I’ll hit her for him!” or “Sometimes a woman is going off on you and you have to shake her or grab her to get her to stop.”

    The idea seems to be that DV is just how black folks roll. It’s frightening.

    How about hitting is not acceptable in adult relationships…EVER. How about teaching your children that if a friend or lover puts a hand on them, the relationship should be OVER.

    Reading those comments made me fearful of what’s going on behind closed doors in some households.

  58. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @all –

    Some things to keep in mind.

    1. Update #2 was Necole Bitchie defending Chris Brown.

    2. Pololly – did you read the article? It talks about *the culture of silence* that surrounds DV with high profile people, especially when it happens repeatedly. And the same defenses in the piece are the same ones being trotted out here.

    3. Talking to some friends last night, we wondered if this situation would have blown up as big if it was Remy Ma and Fabalous, or Megan Good and Tyrese, or anyone else that doesn’t get play on mainstream blogs and gossip sites. And the differences between how this is being treated in black media vs. white media is interesting.

    4. Why does race or culture have to be a part of talking about DV? Because it plays a role in how it manifests, how it is perceived, and how it is ultimately dealt with.

  59. ceecee wrote:

    cosign with texascowgirl & A.D Nix actually thank you for correcting my assumptions about famous men getting a pass only in black communities.

    texascowgirl wrote:
    I’m as tired of women who let themselves be beat as the men who beta them. If a man hits you once, leave!

    Also want to add that you need to start planning your exit strategy once a man starts showing signs of violent behavior. Cos I can almost guarantee that there are usually signs early on before it even gets to the point of getting hit.

  60. Squidfly wrote:

    CEdwards wrote:

    I’m very concerned that we’re even having conversations such as, “hold on, we don’t know what the girl did.” Are we serious? I don’t care if she’s responsible for genocide in Darfur, no woman or person deserves to be harmed in such a way.

    This comment is over the top.

  61. Tiff wrote:

    I find it interesting that in the midst of saying how much we don’t know about what happened, we still point the finger squarely at Chris Brown. There is absolutely no justification for violence against another person, period. It’s not only bad if it’s the man who does it. At this point, we have no idea what went down between these two or what the circumstances are. The story is still full of holes.

  62. queerhapa wrote:

    Hold up. For those trotting out tired statements like “If a man hits you once, leave!” you should know that leaving an abusive relationship is not so simple as getting up and walking out the door. When someone tries to leave an abusive relationship, THE VIOLENCE OFTEN ESCALATES, and can result in murder. Also, physical abuse usually doesn’t start out of the blue–it’s almost always preceded by emotional abuse, threats, and controlling behavior, which has been steadily breaking down the victim and making them fearful. Ceecee, I agree that there are early signs, but when you are in the midst of them, it can be extremely hard to recognize them, especially when you are young and have been socialized to believe that jealousy means your boyfriend loves you.

  63. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @QH –

    Very true, especially if there are still loving feelings all tangled up in this mess. A commenter on Jezebel made a succinct point yesterday, noting that if what’s being reported is true, there is the possibility that Rihanna doesn’t want to be the poster child for DV – she may be still working things out within herself.

  64. Black Dragon wrote:

    @Tami
    “You know how we black women are! You can’t tell me you’ve never [hit a man, slapped a man, pushed a man, pushed him to hit you.]”

    This is true and I’ve dumped several black women after the first warning of “never put your hands on me in that way again” wasn’t heeded. It’s not cute and its emascualting to have a woman beat on you no matter if its out of frustration or wont to get a rise. It usually starts like this, then the man loses his temper too and bites back only to become one of the statistics when the cops arrive. There has never been a woman worthy enough to lay hands on me and there never will be, its not an even road so I don’t play that game.

    I’m glad you posted that because it is very true of black women especially if you are a bigger guy like myself “oh he’s big so I can punch him and slap him when im mad”. It’s not cool for either party to hit each other.

  65. blossom culp wrote:

    Unlike most Americans, I don’t have a short memory. I still have never watched a Polanski movie despite many Netflix recommendations. I change the radio every time I hear Michael Jackson or R Kelly despite being a major fan of both years back. I loathe Jason Kidd.
    @gbw, I co-sign and ADD Woody Allen. Don’t watch nothing he makes even though everybody says I must see Vicki Christina Barcelona. Doesn’t matter. I WILL NOT PATRON A PEDOPHILE.

    I have to add that part of the reason this is such a big deal is that Brown was painted as goodie boy material. This is like if one of the Jonas Brothers hit someone. People expect this from people like T.I. and even condone it. But Chris Brown was mainstream money.

  66. ceecee wrote:

    @QH which is why we need to socialize younger ones that it is not okay to shrug off disturbing signs. Women who have experienced DV will tell you that in 20/20 hindsight there were signs they excused away because of the love they shared with their partners.

    I should know, I was one of them, the only difference is once I noticed this disturbing behavior, I noted it and took steps to end the relationship. Of course, I am well aware that you can’t just up and leave in one day, but you should most definitely set a plan in motion to leave a harmful relationship. It’s not cut and dried but it can be done.

  67. Squidfly wrote:

    CEdwards wrote:

    I’m very concerned that we’re even having conversations such as, “hold on, we don’t know what the girl did.” Are we serious? I don’t care if she’s responsible for genocide in Darfur, no woman or person deserves to be harmed in such a way.

    The millions of displaced, raped women and the relatives of the murdered. Would read this as typical American self indulgence and ignorance.
    Keep the commentary on the domestic homefront. Comparisons between women and men, trapped by War, internecine violence and mass extermination, reduce the argument of American domestic violence to silly spats, which typifies the She vs He argument alive and well online and in the MSM.

  68. Daomadan wrote:

    texascowgirl, et al: “I’m as tired of women who let themselves be beat as the men who beta them. If a man hits you once, leave! ”

    It’s not that fucking easy. As a survivor of DV, it’s not that easy to leave. Way to blame the victim and not place the responsibility on the damn man who feels he needs to abuse someone. If you were ever in a violent relationship and were able to walk away after the first cruel word, punch, or assault then good for you. For many of us, it’s not that easy. So yeah…I’m gonna say it: Fuck you for blaming me and other victims of abuse for not leaving right away.

    And what queerhapa said.

  69. Tiffany wrote:

    I was in a college relationship 25 years ago with a bi-racial boy who attended the same college as myself. I was madly in love with this person and probably would have married him. He was my best friend for awhile. Then he started beating me and almost choked me unconscious in a health club bathroom, late one night. Alcohol would really set him off and one night while driving home from a club he left me on the interstate. I have never been so terrified in my life. I literally walked several miles on the interstate at 2:00 in the morning. It’s a wonder I am still alive. When I heard this story about Rhianna it made me sick to my stomach. No woman ever deserves to have a man physically harm her I don’t care what the circumstances are. The problem is that she will most likely go back to Chris, because you can tell she deeply loves him and from information I have read she grew up in a household where domestic violence was the norm. Both entertainers grew up with violence. Unless this has happened before, which I have no doubt this was not the first attack on her just the one Chris got caught at, this may be the straw that breaks the camels back. After putting up with abuse for four years, it finally took my nose and eardrum being ruptured to get me to wake up. I had to move far away and have an unlisted number in order to flee this type of personality. I pray for Rhianna and hope that she looks toward a Higher Power for strength and remains around those who love her.

  70. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ceecee
    I think one thing I should have added that gets at some of what I think you were saying is that when the victim is a woman of color, or not famous, people seem far less concerned, quicker to ask what she did to “provoke” the assault, and much more eager to forget it happened.

    3. Talking to some friends last night, we wondered if this situation would have blown up as big if it was Remy Ma and Fabalous, or Megan Good and Tyrese, or anyone else that doesn’t get play on mainstream blogs and gossip sites. And the differences between how this is being treated in black media vs. white media is interesting.

    When I saw that Jezebel was writing about this situation my initial reaction was confusion – like what is this doing here? Were it Remy Ma, no mainstream blog or mainstream news source would give it 1/10th of the attention. Remy Ma has a tough image – she’s a Strong Black Woman (the “she can take it” and or “she provoked it” implied). Also: Who?

    The MSM isn’t concerned about WOC who are the victims of DV. But the girl who sang ‘Umbrella’? And the Doublemint kid? They are the epitome of pop sweetness and light. A fav couple of everyone’s tween daughter.

  71. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @All –

    Everyone take a break. DV is a very personal issue for most people, and I can see how a lot of us are speaking from our own experiences. But chill. Don’t curse at each other, don’t minimize each other’s experiences, just talk.

  72. CEdwards wrote:

    Squidfly:

    Seriously, I was making a point that there is no crime that a woman could commit that should invoke being physically assaulted. I’m sorry if I offended you about Darfur…should I have said something more like, “even if she was responsible for the tsunami” or “even is she was responsible for the war in Gaza”…I think, as most people could figure out my meaning, that even an extreme (such as the rumor she gave him and STD) is NO EXCUSE for violence.

    Now seriously…let go and let God…back to the topic, please.

  73. aimerrouge wrote:

    The idea that Rihanna doesn’t want to be the face of DV hadn’t even occured to me. Given that she is so young and at the beginning of her career, I think that is a valid concern.

    I agree with those who have noticed the urban media is focusing on what Rihanna could have done to cause this situation.

    The mainstream media seems to be focusing on the fact that whatever happened

    * someone thought it problematic enough to call the police
    * the police thought it problematic enough to take Rihanna to the hosipital
    * the hospital found it problematic enough to treat Rihanna’s injuries (regardless what could have caused them)

  74. Daomadan wrote:

    @ Latoya: Sorry for the outburst. This topic is a sensitive one for me and the same old things get said “Why did she stay?” “If I were her I would leave!” Etc.

    As those who have been in DV situations know, it’s far more complicated than simply dumping the other person or packing up and leaving. That people still need to blame the victim in cases of DV or other forms of violence only speaks to how far we haven’t come in stopping the violence that affects women the entire world over regardless of race or class.

  75. Nate wrote:

    I’m with QH – it isn’t necessarily easy to leave a violent relationship, especially as violence doesn’t usual manifest itself straightaway.

    And in a relationship (gay or straight – m on m dv is becoming a rising issue), economic parity doesn’t always exist between partners. Add, say kids (with the potential for the state to take children in a DV situation in to care), family and the need to have a place to live (again, often suitable for kids) – into the mix and not that easy. Or even possible.

    Not many people would want to leave their children in the care of a violent partner.

    Its one of the reasons DV has been recognised (at least in the UK/Oz) as a mitigating factor/defense in manslaughter cases.

    Regarding the effect on kids, it can lead to a very fucked up view of relationships, or even the value of the people. I, mean, if you see your mother/father beaten/controlled/disparaged/used as an outlet for frustration and utimately objectivifed/viewed as a ‘pet’), its not exactly healthy.

    And possibly the more insidious effect for a kid, particulary males, is picking up the viewpoint that committing DV/violence, or (even just objectification/undermining the victim’s self worth) is normal and can get a guy what he wants – sex, money, the thrill of violence (and if you’ve been in a bar fight, its shocking how quickly it can escalate, and how ‘good’ it can feel) or just plain validation…

  76. Kodachrome wrote:

    daomadan you are speaking the truth. Leaving DV situations is never easy. I too am getting sick of the caribbean stereotypes. Its so sad that many people especially women believe DV victims deserve the treatment or must’ve instigated it. I think it’s time society and communities of colour get a clue about DV and that the abuser has the option to keep their hands to themselves OR walk away.

  77. bdsista wrote:

    Here a picture of Rihanna with her bruises

    [Link Removed by Mod - LDP]

    Thank you Tiffany and others for sharing their personal experiences with DV. I also want to remind folks that there is also emotional and verbal abuse, that while it doesn’t show bruises and injuries on the outside, can deeply wound and damage a person on the inside. I thank God that I had a Mother in whom I could confide so when I started dating in college let me know when my boyfriends started engaging in controlling behaviors, emotional blackmail (if you don’t do X, I will leave or its over) and behaviors that were nonsupportive and unhelpful to my growth. I finally broke up with one who used to control me with threatening to break up, by calling his bluff and breaking up with with him, because I was tired of the threats.

    Because of this I was able to identify emotional and verbal abuse in my ex-husband and had no compunction in my decision to agree to divorce him. In fact, I did all the legal work. But, you have to have a strong sense of self-worth to realize when its not you, its the other person and you are ok being you. I think its hard for women to feel its ok being themselves. Its ok to put yourself first and walk away from something or someone who is destructive. Rihanna is a talented beautiful girl who deserves better. It is very sad that Chris Brown couldn’t find a better way to express his anger. They both need therapy.

    Mod Note – Not to go all CSI on you, but the photo you linked to appears to be doctored. The injuries do not match any of the common descriptors across reports, they appear to have added a mark from a tool (or a burn mark), no sign of nasal damage and the bruising is perfectly symmetrical, inconsistent with the type of physical aggression reported. Sit tight. I’ll post an update when there is something conclusive, but as a person who bears scars from keys on her person, that’s not how that looks. I’m not trying to say that I am an expert, or that my take is unchallengable, but this doesn’t pass the sniff test. – LDP

  78. coloredhoney wrote:

    “How is this similar to Big Pun’s life? He’s not even hip hop. He’s just black. So what? Let’s talk about intimate partner violence among 13 – 20 year olds. People who are not economically linked even. Or we can just claim false similarities because they are both of color” -pololly

    while i’m writing this my neighbors, a thirtyish married couple, are engaging in their usual morning bashing. dv does not discriminate. doesn’t matter about family background, economic status (the wife is a playwright and painter, husband is computer tech.), or even what kind of music you listen to. couple next door are big jimi hendrix fans.

    as for c. brown not being hiphop so not to be compared with big pun in his current situation, i don’t know about that. his “run it” remix features jim jones rhyming about running a train on a girl and possibly her friend. i downloaded the song onto my son’s ipod not thinking anything of it because of brown’s purported image. when i listened to the ipod myself i was quite surprised and had a conversation with my son about the lyrics. there are examples of women being abused strewn throughout pop culture. they do not escape a child’s attention. my son was upset to see a wrestler carry his wife like a tote bag watching wwf smackdown while eating at a buffalo wing joint for a nice “family lunch”. and again it’s supposed to be cool or just seen as sport.

    while my neighbors next door engage in artsy domestic spousal abuse, the late twentyish couple upstairs engage in garden variety hiphop and reggae domestic spousal abuse. i still haven’t noted the difference in either woman’s screams for help and either’s man’s rumbling and thumping on the walls behind my bed or the ceiling above my head.

  79. Squidfly wrote:

    CEdwards wrote:

    Squidfly:

    Seriously, I was making a point that there is no crime that a woman could commit that should invoke being physically assaulted. I’m sorry if I offended you about Darfur…should I have said something more like, “even if she was responsible for the tsunami” or “even is she was responsible for the war in Gaza”…I think, as most people could figure out my meaning, that even an extreme (such as the rumor she gave him and STD) is NO EXCUSE for violence.

    Now seriously…let go and let God…back to the topic, please.

    I don’t know why you keep on working using outrageous analogies…still!

  80. Seattle Slim wrote:

    Daomadan,

    I don’t want to start a brawl, let me premise my comment with this. But, as a victim of DV yourself, can you tell us why it’s not that easy to leave? A lot of us don’t get a chance to talk about it with DV survivors, so if you could share your insight I think it would help. Where was the fight or flight?

  81. Seattle Slim wrote:

    I think that a lot of these women are rooting for Chris because in their lives they probably saw him as the perfect black male. Think about it in Chemistry/Math terms. If they do not have or feel like they can ever get a good, black man, and they are single (and possibly bitter or resentful) they probably believe Chris to be this god, this fantasy.

    Then you factor in the hurt (and as a blogger who broke their relationship on Singersroom.com last year, some of them are CRAZY) they most likely feel that he dated a non-African-American woman and the resent they have for Rihanna as a foreign black woman, you probably have the ending result witnessed in those comments.

    If she were a white girl, I think it would be even worse. I think this not only speaks to how we handle DV in black communities, but how the love relationship is in said communities.

  82. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Seattle Slim –

    Daomadan can speak for herself. But here are some of the more common reasons:

    *You still love this person and want to believe them when they say they will stop hurting you.

    * The abuse is hidden. If you try to bring it up, no one has witnessed anything or seen what counts as “normal” signs of abuse so you feel like you cannot explain why you need to leave.

    * Abuse doesn’t just take physical forms. There is a mental/emotional component that may operate seperately or in conjunction with physical abuse. Many times the abusers try to break down their target, telling them things like “you’re nothing without me” or appeal to their sense of duty, like “I’ll kill myself if you leave me.” Absuers often spend a decent amount of time breaking down their target – that’s why a lot of people remain in abusive situations. After a while, they normalize the behavior.

    The list grows exponentially if you add in other factors, like having a child with your abuser, being financially dependent on an abuser, having a language/document barrier, etc.

    Men also have tales of abuse at the hands of female partners. One of the best I’ve read is in Nathan McCall’s Makes Me Wanna Holler, where he graphically details some of the things he did to women, and being married to a woman who was manipulative and abusive. While she would do things like push heavy objects on him, he had to fight against both cultural expectations (men aren’t victims of DV) and the same type of silencing that women experience.

  83. jvansteppes wrote:

    @Nathan, I see your point, I just think that if the whole barrel of apples is rotten it won’t help much to narrow in on Chris Brown’s individual psyche as being MORE fucked up than anyone else’s.

    To the charge that maybe she hit him first/hitting is okay if a woman hits you first: I’m a woman who dates women and I’ve had one go nuts on me before but I still wouldn’t hit her back even though we were of similar strength because hitting people is not okay. Restrain them or run away. Dump her ass, tell her to seek counseling, but don’t hit her. Same goes for emotional abuse.

  84. Katie wrote:

    Why are we putting DV survivors on trial here? There are lots of resources to educate yourself on the internet before coming to this comment thread and forcing survivors to endure disbelief and shaming all fucking over again.

    Here are some places you can go to educate yourself –

    Asian/Pacific Islander women-specific info: http://dvrp.org/learn.htm
    Our Bodies, Ourselves on DV – http://www.feminist.com/resources/ourbodies/viol_intro.html
    African American women-specific info – http://www.vadv.org/secPublications/svfsaa.pdf

    And that is after about 5 minutes of googling. Literally. Before you make assumptions about why people stay in abusive relationships, or really anything else about their circumstances, educate yourself about the facts.

  85. MissMKD wrote:

    CJ wrote:
    ” I think it’s unfair to label him a complete monster who goes around beating women all of the time for this one instance. ”

    As one who’s worked with domestic violence survivors from a diversity of racial communities, I can safely say that NO abuser is a “complete monster.” Many are talented and charming; hence, their ability to attract mates. I’ve got no problem assessing this based on one incident, primarily of two significant factors: the fact it occurred in public and injuries are documented. Anyone who’s worked in the field can tell you that one of the marks of lethality and/or severity in DV is the willingness on the part of the abuser to engage in public assaults. I.e., if a man (or woman) “just blows” in this manner in public, what the hell is he capable of doing behind closed doors?

    Michelle wrote:
    “He is 19. Now, I know most of you are going to go ballistic on me for bringing that up, but I bring it up because he is very, very young. ”

    In the community where I worked, a sad situation arose where a 16-yr-old Latino boy killed his pregnant 15-yr-old g/f (also Latino). Strangled, then burnt her body. Families of both filled the courtrooms and glared at each other, without asking what their contribution was towards teaching their kids violence. Oh I’m sure the lad was “start[ing] to learn” about DV, but I’m not sure what “difference can be made” at the point where he has put a girl “in check” for the last time. If Rhianna had met a similar tragic end outside that car, would his youth be a point of empathy? Would his family history draw attention away from issues of accountability? Would we have the “wait hold up…we don’t know what Rhianna did” crap thrown across the blogs?

    texascowgirl wrote:
    “You think communities of color unique in blaming the victim and forgiving the abuser?”

    They’re definitely not unique, and kudos for bringing up the way Hollywood has shielded white male celebs! While I wasn’t aware of the Josh Brolin incident(s), I make it a point to ensure (or at least, try my best) my entertainment dollars don’t support batterers and rapists. I will no sooner see a Roman Polanski or Woody Allen flick than I will root for Kobe Bryant or listen to R. Kelley or help Suge Knight’s empire. And the apologists for Chris Brown, the ones who are blaming Rhianna, are no different than Sean Connery’s messed up dialogue with Barbara Walters a few years ago. Rationalization is just that- rationalization.

    Tiff wrote:
    “At this point, we have no idea what went down between these two or what the circumstances are. The story is still full of holes.”

    I disagree- there’s enough facts and documentation to deduce that an assault “went down”, & identify the parties. For those who’re paying attention, there IS some information out there- perhaps not enough for “beyond a rasonable doubt,” but enough to get the basics. To be sure- we aren’t a court of law, where Brown is entitled to “innocent until proven guilty.” We are simply bloggers with powers of observation, and we’re entitled to do so. I wasn’t at the Watergate hotel, either… but I think I’ve got a pretty good grasp of what happened regardless of what Nixon did/didn’t admit. Ya know?

    Personally I think both Brown and Rhianna need a lot of prayer right now, and will probably need therapy. If it’s true they both have family histories of violence, that’s certainly consistent with why the cycle is continuing for both of them. And true to form, if this isn’t the first assault as Rhianna alleged at the hospital, then statistics show she’ll return at least one more time. (No, her PR machine will not protect her from that dysfunctional syndrome.) And apologists for Brown will say it proves nothing happened- see, they made up? I hope this opens up dialogue not just with POC, but in society at large. Yes, POC are more vulnerable than whites in terms of public perception…so certain talks need to happen that the white community can’t relate to. I just pray that everyone becomes a bit more educated about relationship violence.

  86. A.D. Nix wrote:

    @ Seattle Slim:
    I really don’t think that a majority of the women of color who are supporting Chris Brown (not all of whom are African-American) resent Rhianna because she’s isn’t African-American (or because she’s “light” as was suggested elsewhere). Or did I miss where this was a running resentment throughout their relationship – before any of this happened? I’m not being sarcastic; that’s an honest question. I’m not up on the trajectory of their relationship.

    The Sad Bitter African American Woman trope (she’s mad because she’s ugly, she’s mad because she’s dark, she’s mad because he wouldn’t want someone like her etc.) seems to get pulled out here a lot. Bitterness is out there, sure. And tensions between groups in the African diaspora is fact; I’ve discussed my experiences her myself. Are African-American women really just a bunch of blindly hating haters all of the time? As a rule?

    I think support for Chris has much more to do with die-hard adherence to the codes of patriarchy than Rhianna being a particularly unsympathetic victim. By those codes, all women are unsympathetic victims.

  87. A.D. Nix wrote:

    I wanted to add that I have heard her described as a “Crazy Island Woman” in one way or another in real time – so I’m not dismissing this angle.

    (One of those times (this morning) it was by a Jamaican woman who is actually kind of off her ish but that’s not Jamaica’s doing.)

  88. Seattle Slim wrote:

    Interesting point, A.D. I definitely get you. Well, when their relationship broke, I had to delete a couple of comments from the blog I was running that were really wild. They were really resentful of her and possessive. They scared me.

    Now I think that both of our theories could have some traction. I only say that because of some of the blogs I’ve frequented.

  89. Michelle wrote:

    #85.

    In the context of this discussion, yes. No matter what the outcome, I think his age is very important.

    And here is why. We have the opportunity for discourse. The conversations we have here impact how we manage when we go out into the world as citizens of our communities. What happened to that 16 year old boy and his 15 year old pregnant girlfriend is a tragedy. I think that they are both victims. And I totally respect you disagreeing with me on that one. But, age is a factor for me, especially when we are discussing DV in our communities. We are attempting to look at all the pieces of this crime. It seems to me that we are looking at how the conversations that we have about DV reflect and effect DV. From that standpoint, yes, his age is a factor and we are all victims.

  90. CEdwards wrote:

    Squidfly,

    For God’s sake (oh, wait…too politically incorrect to bring Him/Her/It into conversation?) do you understand anything about wit or sarcasm? IF you did, you would understand the point of using extremities to prove a point.

    Seriously, let’s TRY to stay on topic. Wanna talk about Darfur? Start a thread. Wanna talk about domestic violence? This IS that thread.

    Getting back on topic…I want to explore where in the AA community we received the notion or theory that physical violence towards each other is ever justified. It’s funny: while DV is still in the white community, you never hear “she deserved to get hit” at least from white women. Anyone have an idea about this?

    Mod Note – CEdwards, stop with the hyperbole. It’s not making the point you want it to make, and there is no point in you going back and forth with Squidfly over it. And the only person who starts threads here are contribs. – LDP

  91. Daomadan wrote:

    “Daomadan,

    I don’t want to start a brawl, let me premise my comment with this. But, as a victim of DV yourself, can you tell us why it’s not that easy to leave? A lot of us don’t get a chance to talk about it with DV survivors, so if you could share your insight I think it would help. Where was the fight or flight?”

    I can’t speak for all survivors of DV, but in my situation I was young and I was in love. Nobody ever saw any of the abuse that was going on, which was physical, mental, and some sexual, and I felt completely silenced during my 5 years with him. My friends witnessed a few events where I was publicly hit and nobody said a thing to me. When I started to pull away because he wanted me to spend all my time with him, my friends up and left without trying to understand further what was going on. My family never knew anything was wrong because I hid it so well because I thought that if they found out that I would get in trouble. I became so isolated, even in the midst of loving friends and family, that I was stuck by myself and with my abuser.

    It wasn’t until 5 years later that a friend helped me see the light and that I finally HAD a friend that I could look to for support. A public attack by my boyfriend also brought to light what was going on, and yet I was still blamed for provoking him when I did no such thing. People saw him put me in a headlock and swing me around and yet they blamed ME! People don’t want to see what they don’t want to see…

    It’s so insidious. The man I was with didn’t start by hurting me, it wasn’t until I was in deep and was deep in love that it started and I was stuck. It was a lot of saying to myself, “But he’s really such a great guy! We’ll get through this.” Heck, I thought I deserved it most of the time at the end. I blamed myself for the hits and the chokings and the abuse because I didn’t know why else he would do such things when I was doing all I could to be a good girlfriend.

    There are so many reasons we stay. It’s just how it was for me. I stayed. I didn’t even have kids to deal with and it took me five years to get away from him. Years later I had flashbacks, went through therapy, and even now I still can’t hear his name without feeling it in my gut. One day I might, but it’s something I carry with me.

    I don’t know if that offered any insight into why we might stay, but it’s a little bit of my story. I’m not saying anyone is accusing me of this: But survivors of DV shouldn’t have to defend ourselves and our actions. Every situation is different and some situations are difficult to get out of and some are easy to get out of…

  92. Kaonashi wrote:

    A.D. Nix: I would really like to think otherwise, but the comments I’ve seen in some outlets really make me question some things. :/

    Another thing that I think is making a lot of girls defend him is the fact that he has that “very good boy” rep. Let’s face it, if this was someone like 50 Cent or Christian Bale most people would totally say “Yope, he knocked her the hell out.” But Chris has that wholesome, guy next door vibe. You know, the dream guy. The type that bring flowers to your mom when he picks you up for a date and wins stuffed animals for you at the amusement park. He has enough swagger to stand down other guys that might give you the eye, but he’s a sweetie to you. This kid danced with Elmo on Sesame Street, for goodness sakes. DV is something that poor toothless sweaty people do in their hopeless homes and hopeless lives, not golden boys. And if he DID do it, it wasn’t his fault. The evil dybbuk woman drove him to it!

    *sigh* The only way this could be worse is if Kevin Jonas completely flipped his shit and beat the crap out of his GF. In that case, the GF would probably be crucified.

  93. Seattle Slim wrote:

    Daomadan,

    Thanks for sharing. That was hard to read because it’s heartbreaking. Matter of fact, I don’t see blaming you for anything. I guess I’m mortified that no one helped you but blamed you instead. I cannot wrap my mind around it.

  94. Lola wrote:

    @Daomadan,
    ” My friends witnessed a few events where I was publicly hit and nobody said a thing to me. When I started to pull away because he wanted me to spend all my time with him, my friends up and left without trying to understand further what was going on.”

    What exactly should friends do in this situation? Shame on the witnesses who said nothing but what about your other friends? It is common knowledge that women tend to pull away and spend less time with their girlfriends when they are romantically involved. Criticizing someone’s relationship often leads to being cut off. Now there are others signs of abuses such as being controlling or jealous. I know of a situation of gay male on male DV. The boyfriend was routinely jealous and their were frequent arguements one of which escalated into violence. Yet they keep getting back together. I see it as all you can do is let them know you will be there for them when they are ready to leave.

  95. Daomadan wrote:

    Lola: I think it’s a matter of educating people, especially young people, about some of the warning signs if a friend is in an abusive situation. I mean, I was in high school and nobody noticed a thing. The more we educate and let people know that they aren’t alone or that there are resources for them (shelters, hotlines, etc) it might reach people sooner rather than later.

    Or I can choose the big answer: Fight the patriarchy and the culture of violence that all women, and many men, live in.

  96. Nelly wrote:

    To piggyback on A.D. Nix’s point, I do think a lot of the comments blaming Rihanna have less to do with the ethnicity of the commenters/something endemic to African-American women and more to do with this misogynistic culture of blame. People (and not just African-Americans) are just using whatever stereotype – racial, cultural, or otherwise – they have handy to discredit her. If she were African-American (or a rapper), she’d be “ghetto” or a “brawler.” If she grew up in the suburbs, she’d be “uppity.” If she were a Latina, she’d be a “fiery spitfire.” If she were an athlete like Venus or Serena, she’d be “manly” and people would be saying “she can take it/ she’s just as strong as him, anyway” to explain the situation away. If she were a Mormon, people would absolutely be blaming her and her religion -which is often accused of sexism – for her “weakness/lack of self-respect”and her “inability to fight back or leave her abuser.” “She’s Mormon, what do you expect? They’re taught not to question their men. If she weren’t Mormon, she wouldn’t have put up with it…”

    And CEdwards, there are indeed plenty of White (and other non-Black) women who place the blame for violence on the victim. I mentioned the example of Teri Hatcher in an earlier post. I also distinctly remember a situation involving Paul McCartney. In short, after his divorce, some unreliable tabloids speculated about domestic violence (in that divorce case, they speculated about absolutely everything).

    I was not looking for people to condemn McCartney based on whisperings from those “alien baby born on Mars”- type publications. But, I hoped people would, at least, focus on the fact that the abuse allegations came from unreliable tabloids or that Mills completely denied the allegations. The responses: “Paul doesn’t seem like the type.” “Heather must have started it.” “He probably just shook her to get her to stop hitting him. That’s not really abuse.”

    This situation was complicated by the fact that Mills’ first husband had accused her of physical abuse. The “She started it” crowd was impossible to drown it when those allegations came to light. I think it goes without saying that McCartney’s fanbase is largely White. These attitudes are absolutely everywhere.

  97. L. wrote:

    Kaonashi: “I would really like to think otherwise, but the comments I’ve seen in some outlets really make me question some things. :/ ”

    If you’re comment is in reference to this statement:

    “Are African-American women really just a bunch of blindly hating haters all of the time? As a rule?”

    then are you SERIOUS? Like, FOR REAL?

    Because that would be the other side of the coin…

  98. Kaonashi wrote:

    L: No, that is NOT what I meant. What I’m referring to is the undercurrent of “That lightskinned Island ho got hers, nyah nyah nyah” that is running through more than a few posts I’ve read. As if Rhianna deserved to be knocked down a peg or two purely because of how she looks. WTF? This is a serious case where something horrible happened between a man and a woman. And when I read posts that contain some form of the following:

    1. She must have did something to him first, you KNOW them island [whatever] are all crazy!

    2. He probably just bumped her. You KNOW how them light-skinned [whatever] bruise easily!

    3. That’s what that [blahcurseblah"lightskinnedheifer"blahblahcurse] deserves!

    4. That’s what he gets for not going out with a “sister.”

    it pisses me off. Where she is from and how she looks has nothing whatsoever to do with what happened. So why is it constantly being brought up? Why?

    Thankfully, this is one of the few outlets I can read without wading through a bunch of…THAT.

  99. Nelly wrote:

    I meant to write that the “[Heather Mills] started it” crowd was impossible to drown out when those allegations came to light.

  100. lulu wrote:

    If Chris hated that his step father abuse his mom y did he abuse Rihanna?

  101. Ree wrote:

    This all makes me sad. I would like to be fair and withhold judgement, but….

    I was abused for a ling time by a man I thought I loved and whom I thought loved me in return. I went back to him a couple of times after he seriously injured me. The last time was after he attempted to run over me with his car. I know people judged me harshly and the same questions were asked about me (what did she do? She must have had it coming…)

    I went into counceling after that breakup to find out what the hell was wrong with me that I would put up with crap like that in the name of love. I don’t think he ever thought counceling becasue he did not believe anything was wrong with him. And while his sister was supportive to me, his mother refused to believe that he was abusing me, which did not help.

    There are so many people in this situation. This is a teaching and learning opportunity. If it turns out the accusations are true, they (and the young fans that don’t see this behavior shunned enough) can benefit from speaking out against DV, no matter the outcome of any legal proceeding.

  102. Evie wrote:

    “They’ll make an example out of him, its the thing to do with celebrities, especially the black ones. Bye Chris, keep your head up bro its going to be a long ride with women and non-minorities coming at you with pitch forks and torches. Regardless of what really happened.”

    We do not yet know all the facts, though the injuries reportedly sustained by Rihanna provide persuasive evidence that this assault may have occurred as the reports have said. I find your assumption that Chris Brown will be penalised for assaulting Rihanna, even if he did not insult her (which you seem to imply is a likely possibility), to be out of touch with reality. If anything, domestic violence charges are dropped due to the victim preferring not to press charges (in those places where the decision to proceed is left up to the victim).

    Why say “non-minorities” when what you mean is white people? It is obviously a negative thing that some of the white people responding to this incident might wish to see Chris Brown penalised for domestic violence only because he is black. Surely it isn’t a negative thing though if white people’s response to this incident is to hope that Chris Brown will be penalised for domestic violence (so long as they are motivated by a genuine concern about domestic violence and not racism). As for women, of any colour, why shouldn’t they want to see Chris Brown held responsible if he is proven to have assaulted Rihanna?

    Black women and girls are just as important as black men and boys, and deserve the same measure of concern and respect. When , as appears to have happened in this case, a black woman is victimised by a black man, he should be held fully responsible for his own actions.

    The fact that many white people will react in a racist way and/or be all to eager to seize on this incident, does not make it any less important to ensure black women’s rights and well-being are being cared for.

  103. Evie wrote:

    *That should have read “even if he did not assault her” rather than “even if he did not insult her”.

  104. Yolanda C. wrote:

    Lulu wrote:

    If Chris hated that his step father abuse his mom [wh]y did he abuse Rihanna?

    Because that’s how Chris Brown learned to handle conflict with women, by keeping them “in check.” Even if he was traumatized to death by seeing his mother being abused, he still got the underlying message: Men need to handle their women by any means necessary.

    That’s the chief piece of the puzzle that I think folks of all genders miss about domestic violence—that it is about power and control. There is nothing that any survivor can do or not do to “set off” a batterer, because battering has nothing to do with being set off, out of control, intoxicated, enraged, or insane. Batterers abuse their partners for one reason—to establish their control within the relationship.

    And as some of us here know all too well, DV transcends all walks of life and all classes of people—white, POC, hetero/LGBT, poor/rich, famous or not, God-fearing or secular. What gets really tricky is society’s high level of denial about DV, which we’re seeing with the ridiculous media and fan response to the story. Cracks about Rihanna’s temper, her ethnicity, and the typical misogynist “blame-the-victim” narrative, while frustrating, are all-too-common responses to news about a woman being battered.

    There’s a really excellent book about DV that explains the most critical dynamics of battering: Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. The book focuses on the reasons why people batter, and the dynamics that keep survivors trapped in these relationships. While the book mostly focuses on hetero men, there is also excellent information about how DV affects POC and queer communities.

  105. ktrujillo wrote:

    I can’t speak for all survivors of DV, but in my situation I was young and I was in love.

    And if the guy is super charming and very successful people kept telling you how “lucky” you are since he is a real “catch” (even family) and they are more likely to downplay things they see or hear and treat you like you’re crazy or ungrateful to “complain”.

  106. Eric Daniels wrote:

    Let’s get all the evidence in before we make judgments on whether Chris Brown is the next O.J., Mister, or Ike Turner. The majority of the posts on this subject is just as bad when there is no evidence of what went on Saturday Night. I can’t stand neither Brown’s or Rhianna’s music, but I am not going to throw them under the bus until all evidence is in for the world to see.

  107. Shannon Hadnot wrote:

    It was very refreshing to see so many intelligent, well thought out and written comments. Whether I agreed with all of them or not, they all offered something subtantial and thought-provoking. A far, far cry from all of the mess I have been reading in several blogs since first hearing of the CB/Rhianna incident. Great post Michelle!

    Let’s continue to pray for our young people and the image we ultimately want to project to the world.

    I will definitely be tuning into Racialicious again.

  108. Fiqah wrote:

    I’ve done some reading around about this as well and it really does seem as though the media is crucifying Chris. I’m not a fan of his or Rihanna’s, but it is disturbing to see these kids reduced to some pretty awful stereotypes. I mean, Chris has morphed overnight into the Brute Negro, and (at least within the Black community) Rihanna has become the Upitty Emasculating Island Woman who provoked him to violence.

    I’m always amazed at how quickly these racist memes emerge when PoC are involved. It’s almost like people were just reserving them and waiting for an opportunity to whip the damn things out! What actually happened, and the humanity of the subjects involved, becomes irrelevant. This is trope-ready drama. Sad.

  109. hushamouf wrote:

    @Fiqah: i agree completely. it’s sad how when it’s a black man who is rumored to be involved in an incident, few question his culpability or wait for the facts. it’s also sad that when it’s a black woman, others perpetuate problematic attitudes blaming the alleged victim for “sass” or inviting assault.

    you delicately put what others who are more blunt and to the point weren’t approved to say.

    thanks.

  110. advocatingalways wrote:

    People on this forum do seem to have a better sense of domestic violence than most…

    …as someone who works for a domestic violence agency, the blame absolutely needs to be put on Chris Brown. It is very, very rare that someone lies about domestic violence and to even suspect that Rihanna is lying or did something to “provoke” him is nothing short of blaming the victim. People who degrade, belittle or physically assault their significant others seek to maintain power and control over those closest to them. They are incapable of love and need to be held accountable… and victims (survivors) must be heard and believed!

    As for Rihanna dropping the charges, there are a plethora of reasons why she might do this. Often survivors are threatened and may believe that they will be killed if charges are not dropped (the longest a perp will serve is 2 years for domestic violence then they’re back on the street for revenge). Their beliefs are often well-founded, unfortunately, so if a survivor values her/his life, s/he will do whatever it takes to live (even if that means dropping charges or staying in an abusive relationship).

    Domestic violence is serious and inexcusable. Chris Brown must be held accountable for his actions.

  111. coffee wrote:

    i understand Chris Brown turned himself in; so is anyone pressing charges at this point?