Quoted: Jaemin Kim on Stereotypes, Asian Women, and Hate Crimes

Excerpted by Latoya Peterson


During a one month period in Autumn 2000, the predators abducted five Japanese exchange students, ranging from age 18 to 20. Motivated by their sexual biases about Asian women, all three used both their bodies and objects to repeatedly rape – vaginally, anally and orally — two of the young women over a seven hour ordeal.

In Spokane, one of the attackers immediately confessed to searching only for Japanese women to torture and rape — and eventually all pled guilty and were convicted. It clearly was a racially-motivated criminal case. The victims also believed they were attacked because of their race, the prosecutor told me.

What is astonishing, however, is that the district attorney failed to bring an additional charge that would have tagged the crimes as motivated by racial bias. The police also neglected to report the crime as a “hate crime,” as demanded by the Justice Department to keep accurate statistics of all bias-driven crimes. Although the attackers all received long sentences, an important opportunity to raise the nation’s consciousness was lost. We, as a society, were told that it’s not a hate crime to rape an Asian woman because of her race.

In most states, as well as the federal justice system, crimes committed against a person because of the victim’s race, ethnicity or national origin (as well as other protected classes) are considered “hate crimes” or “bias crimes.” Such a label doesn’t always add much to a sentence, but this enhancement to the charges is considered an important public policy matter and receives greater press coverage than standard crimes. A bias-driven crime is particularly egregious, say the laws, and must be defined as such.

But in rapes and sexual assaults targeting Asian women, I can find no instance of prosecutors or police bringing “hate crime” charges. It seems our society frowns on the rape itself, but accepts the racial motivation behind it. Mainstream society simply is blind to this type of racism. Indeed, the Spokane police detective handling the case wrote in an email to me: “It was felt that there was no hate involved instead he [the lead rapist] was very infatuated with the Japanese race.” (sic).

[...]

The attackers in the L.A. and Spokane rape cases did not use typical “hate speech.” But the biggest obstacle to bias crime charges in those cases is that society at large thinks it benign to hold sexualized stereotypes about Asian women. The woeful abandonment of “hate crime” categorization when Asian women are sexually attacked comes from the mistaken belief that weight should be attached to the attacker’s claim to an “attraction” or “fetish” for the victim’s Asian race. There is a disconnect: while authorities do not see the “fetish” as an excuse for the rape, they see it as an excuse from hate crime labeling. Like society at large, they fail to see that this is a form of racial discrimination.

— From Jaemin Kim’s Huffington Post entry “Asian Woman: Rape and Hate Crimes

(Thanks to reader Kristin for sending this in!)

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Comments

  1. atlasien wrote:

    This is so disgusting. When I was young I can’t even remember how many times I heard “But I can’t be prejudiced… after all, I like Asian women.” Those f*ckers become the kind of police and attorneys that cause a travesty like the Spokane case.

  2. Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Gurl! wrote:

    It truly sickens me how East Asian (and even South Asian) women are exoticised by white American men, as if they’re “asking” for it.

    Because of this, I’ve heard so many racist, nasty remarks targeted at Asian women from White, Black, and dark skinned women who feel resentment toward Asian women.

    Fuck.

  3. Cynthia wrote:

    While I think they should have considered looking into the fact that it was a hate crime, I don’t think it necessarily was a hate crime over sexual assault only. Just because someone says that it is doesn’t mean that it’s so.

  4. gatamala wrote:

    Infatuated?

    Targeting a person for anal rape because of her background/phenotype is infatuation? In a way, the normalization of a racist belief (to wit, “fetish”) serves as a “mitigating” factor in these serial rapes.

    The de facto message is that only one type of woman can be truly violated. All others are to some extent to blame for what happens to them.

  5. Celeste wrote:

    In this case I can see the argument that it’s not a *hate* crime as in I hate asian women so therefore I rape them. They could make a really sick but convincing arguement against a hate crime charge. It’s like a mix of a hate crime and pedophilia. You get the obsessesion with a group of people as sexual objects that’s based on their race, not their age. Very perverse. It is definetly a bias crime. Either the definition of hate crime has to include fetish or we need another category. Talk about a negative side to a positive stereotype, yeesh.

  6. William wrote:

    Our system of government, our justice system, and our core ‘American’ values are shot with symbolism. However, it seems particularly absurd that the prosecutor in this case did not also attach the hate crime statute to this case when there was a confession of “targeting Japanese women” and just looking at the list of victims.

    On the other hand, it requires knowledge about the law to better analyze the situation. I wish we could have some additional word from the prosecutor about his or her decision making. Was it not a viable additional charge? If so, why not?

  7. Tracy wrote:

    Hate crime it hard to prove in court so why not just concentrate on sexual assault charge which results in a harsher penalty.

    The judge should convict the accused based in sexual assault in general regardless of the race of the victim.

  8. Sobia wrote:

    Along with racist this is misogynistic as well.

    What this says to me is that these rapes were somehow sexually motivated. In other words, that sexual attraction and desire did play a role in these rapes. They are assuming that there was a “hint” of sexual attraction in these cases, and as such accepting it. And this is so wrong. We know that rape is a violent act; an act of exerting ones power over another. It is not an act of sex. Sex is just the weapon used to subjugate another human. By denying or ignoring that this was a hate crime they are ignoring this aspect of the overall violence towards these women.

    The fact that they were targeted for their race is a part of the whole violent picture.

  9. Winn wrote:

    I’m very confused by the prosecutorial “reasoning” behind not attaching a hate crime designation to these charges, for one very simple reason. Rape is a crime of control and violence, not sexual attraction or fetishization. The hate crime appelation should have come in because the perpetrators selected a specific type of woman to violently victimize solely because of her race and phenotypic appearance. In other words, they chose Japanese women, not African American women, or First Nations women, or Pakistani women, meaning if these women did not meet the perpetrator’s racial criteria, they would not have been targeted or attacked. That’s the very essence of a bias crime, right?

    There’s a dangerous sexist undercurrent here, linking rape with sexual desire instead of power and control. If these men had chosen Japanese men to beat with baseball bats and tire irons because they were Japanese, no one would quibble with a hate crime appelation. But apparently rape is not as bad, because the men were “infatuated” with Japanese women? In addition, the victims themselves felt they were targeted because of their race, and their own feelings and experience of their attack is dismissed and invalidated, because someone else didn’t feel it was motivated by hate? Damn. These women have been victimized a second time, regardless of how much time their attackers will spend in jail.

  10. gail wrote:

    I’ve always wondered why sexual assault against women is not considered a gender-based hate crime. I realize not all sexual assault is against women, yet so much of sexual assault is about beating, penetrating, hurting the parts of the body most identified with signifying the womaness of a human being. As Sobia notes, once an act is defined as a sexual assault, it “can’t” be motivated by hate because the perpetrators “wanted” the victims too much which is somehow different from hating them. What a world.

  11. Kavita wrote:

    Cosign with Winn

  12. Jess wrote:

    I’d have to go with William on this, and plead for someone with specific knowledge of the law in this case to offer some insight.

    What I do know — after having covered my share of court cases — is that prosecutors “bias” is to the crime that is

    1. easier to prove
    2. carries a harsher penalty

    These two things don’t always line up with what would “raise consciousness” desirable as that might be.

    Now, before anyone starts the flame-age, I think what these attackers did was pretty sick, and the targeting is definitely racist and misogynistic and bound up with a thousand cultural tropes that are deeply tangled up in our culture. No argument there.

    But again, I would like to see someone ask the DA about his decision-making process. I get the sense (looking at the original stories) that the DA wanted to put these guys away posthaste and not get bogged down in questions of motivation, which can get you into acquittal territory if you aren’t really careful.

    It ain’t fair, but it’s the way it is given that cases are decided by juries that are supposed to be sort of representative of the population. Not everybody studies critical race theory and if I want to put these guys away I’ll stay away from all that. Do I like it? No.

    But I reiterate, before we all go off half-cocked let’s ask the DA, or an expert in the field. I want to know, too what the criteria were. For all we know the DA wanted really badly to make it a hate crime but decided he had a better chance of getting these guys without it. I don’t know. And neither does anyone else here.

    Knowledge is power, you know? Because if I knew the decision making process we might be able to offer suggestions for changes in the legal definitions of hate crimes that would make them work better, right?

  13. Cecily wrote:

    Re: gail at #10
    I have trouble imagining it applying to all sexual assault. Especially because so many rapists know their victims, so it would be hard to postulate, let alone prove, that they chose them solely because they were a woman.

    But I have wondered why gender isn’t under hate crimes legislation before. Plenty of serial killers have made their hatred of women an obvious and provable motivating factor, and sprees like the Ecole Polytechnique massacre (though that wasn’t in the US) seem pretty clear-cut hate crimes to me.

  14. Cara wrote:

    @ Celeste ….”Talk about a negative side to a positive stereotype, yeesh.”

    I really don’t think fetishism, is positive. It’s just a way to make an “exotic” or dar-other appealing to white masculinity. So if someone is attracted to you b/c of a fetishized ideal of who you are or who you are supposed to be, leaves a lot of possibility for negative experiences like these.

    Same goes for fetishism associated with black and latina women…..the male doesn’t see YOU, they see a FETISH.

    I think this is terrible and I wish I heard more about things like this in the media, etc. So we can spread the word and try and debunct some of the fetishim along with the other racist stereotypes.

    just my thoughts…..

  15. method wrote:

    Well, it seems like an edge-case in the law. Is this necessarily something that people thought about when framing “hate” crimes laws? Don’t you have to be careful when taking account of racial biases in sex crimes, since most sex crimes are likely to be biased on some accidental feature? Son of Sam targeted white brunettes, for example. It seems reasonable enough to interpret “bias” this way, especially since the purpose of hate crime laws seems to be to deter violence against people based on identity. Just realize that this would mean considering some rape as more serious than other rape based on whether the rapist’s turn-on was “racial” or related to some other feature.

  16. Celeste wrote:

    @ Cara: I don’t think I’m implying that a fetish is positive. Perhaps I should have put the word positive in quotes to indicate my feelings about it. What I meant by that statement is that when discussing positive stereotypes and the harm they cause to the group in question and other groups by comparison (Black men are hypermasculine/Asian men are girly), violent sexual assaults usually aren’t listed as consequences. Usually we tend to associate violent crime more with negative stereotypes, not “positive” ones. “Positive” stereotypes are usually seen to have less dire consequences.

  17. Celeste wrote:

    @ Cara: I think a fetish is a kind of “positive” stereotype. Any stereotype (sexual or otherwise) results in the person not being seen for who they are but what they’re supposed to be. A positive stereotype isn’t required to have a positive result to be considered as such.

  18. NoNameNecessary wrote:

    anyone who knows black history knows that this is the same type of thinking that allowed slave masters to rape their slaves. They claimed it to not be rape because “black women always want sex.” Much of the hatred towards black men was because they were labeled by whites as sexual deviants, thus the only way to protect white womanhood was to exert control over black men. Black America is still dealing with the problems that centuries long fetishization of black bodies has caused in our communities to this day. American history alone shows that fetishization and discrimination go hand in hand.

  19. Celeste wrote:

    @noname: Interesting comparison, I hadn’t thought of it that way. I think it was considered a very bad thing, not a good thing that black women were sexually available. It was still a very negative stereotype that reenforced the idea that blacks were inferior. I think it exists in 2 forms now where it’s used to justify anti-black racism (why won’t those welfare queens keep their legs closed? ) and a fetish sexualizing black women for just plain old male consumption (video vixens). Somehow, asian women being perceived as hypersexual is used more as a fetish and not so much as a reason supporting their inherent inferiority as humans.
    It probably depends on the context, though. With dating it’s a fetish. With sex tourism/slavery/rape the fetish and inferiority probably come together to allow the men to have their fetish and treat her like chattel at the same time.

  20. Winn wrote:

    “Just realize that this would mean considering some rape as more serious than other rape based on whether the rapist’s turn-on was “racial” or related to some other feature.”

    You don’t think there is often bias in the way rape and sexual assault of white women is prosecuted versus women of color? Or wealthy women versus poor women? That rape allegations of sex workers are not often dismissed simply because they are sex workers, and how could they possibly be raped? The fact that there still are enormous mine fields to negotiate when prosecuting an acquaintance rape case as opposed to one in the which the perpetrator and victim are strangers? I spent much of my grad school internship working as a victim advocate for rape and sexual assault victims, and let me tell you, these hierarchies and more exist and impact on how seriously victime allegations are taken, if at all. Don’t be deluded into thinking the system doesn’t already consider some rape more serious than other rape, and some victims more empathetic and deserving of vigorous prosecution than others.

    I agree that more information may be needed to understand the reasoning behind the prosecutor’s decision, and Jess makes some excellent points. But if the idea is that examining the motivation behind a crime makes it vulnerable to acquittal, then why have bias crime legislation at all? Isn’t all assault just assault, all vandalism and defacement just vandalism and defacement, all murder simply murder? The victim is just as dead, right, whether they were targeted because of the color of their skin or because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Well, I happen to believe it does make a difference, especially since we make distinctions in crime and its victims every day. Why is it that killing a police officer is subject to harsher penalties than killing civilians? Or killing a child more serious than an adult? We look at motive, we look at the victims and why they were chosen. We will recognize that our courtrooms reflect not just the law, but the cultural narrative evolving outside the walls of the court, and that both legal and social change often begin where the two worlds intersect.

    If you can say that that victim belongs to a protected class and that membership in that class caused them to be viewed as a potential target for that perpetrator, and especially that the perpetrator admits to targeting members of that protected class for assault, I think we at least have the right to ask how that does not meet hate crime criteria.

  21. Jess wrote:

    Winn–

    I have no idea whatsoever of the specific rules in Washington state. But, if I am a prosecutor, under some circumstances I can’t charge someone with multiple versions of the same offense.

    That is, if I rob you, I can charge you with, say, assault, robbery, and attempted murder. I can’t charge you (and this varies a lot depending on the way state statutes are written) with assault, assault as a bias crime, and the others as well. I might be limited to one or the other, and if the latter is easier for me to prove and put you away I am going to do that.

    So the prosecutor might love the idea of hitting someone with a bias crime, but is worried that the specific charge is too hard to prove when it’s a hell of a lot easier to just prove they assaulted someone.

    If you ever sere n a jury you can see this in action — you will note that the judge (at least in New York City) will ask that you consider each charge separately and whether the evidence reaches the threshold for that charge. On one case I served on (which was actually rather funny in its way, but that’s another story) we (the jury) didn’t think the evidence merited all the charges the ADA came up with. We convicted the guy of three of the six, if I remember right, acquitting him of the other three, which were more serious. We didn’t think criminals should go free, we just didn’t think, based on the evidence, that within the definition of the law given us by the judge the guy’s crime reached assault.

    It ain’t perfect, but it’s what we’ve got.

  22. Erin Mooney wrote:

    This is a pretty disturbing article. What I don’t understand is what was the point of getting the men to confess that the rapes were racially-motivated if further action was going to take place because of it? At the same time should the men be given additional punishment because the rapes are considered hate crimes? What happened to those girls is awful but when is there ever a good reason to rape somebody? In that case every rape should have many additional punishments. On a different note, if further punishment would help the girls and their families heal and if it could put a good message out against hate crimes then yes, there absolutely should be further punishment given to these men.

  23. karak wrote:

    Unfortunately, raping certain women because you believe they are more attractive/more pliable is not a hate crime and does not fit many of the legal definitions of a hate crime. The prosecution probably thought deeply about adding that charge but was afraid they’d lose the case if they did. It was easier to leave off some of the charges and essentially guarantee a conviction that gamble losing everything.

  24. Rchoudh wrote:

    This reminds me of the incident posted about earlier here involving the Sikh teen. In that incident too the police did not label it a hate crime just a robbery assault. Like Jess asked I too would like to know how law enforcement goes about deciding what gets labelled as what. I’m inclined to believe though that not labelling crimes against Asian Americans as hate crimes will only perpetuate the widespread societal belief here that AA’s don’t experience hate crimes and racism. In other words, AA’s are the “model minority” who have it all good how could they possibly complain about experiencing racism (insert sarcasm here)?

  25. Ejunco wrote:

    That’s gross and creepy I hope those bastards get it coming to them in jail.

  26. Elton wrote:

    this is real to me. is it real to you?

    the slant eye gesture and words like chink and chinaman lead quickly and inevitably to shit like this. if you don’t believe me, you don’t understand what the fuck racism is. racism is not a game. racism is a system designed by those in power to hold on to that ill-gotten power through the dehumanization of the groups they have supremacy over, and to justify their injustices as no big deal, or to blame the victim. racism is so firmly rooted as a social problem starting with the simple fact that it isn’t even seen as a problem because people don’t know what the fuck racism even is when it’s staring them in the face, mocking and laughing at a people who came to this country to work and work hard, then get shoved under the rug as only worthy of doing women’s work (which should upset so-called feminists), their men emasculated, then demonized, then dismissed as punchlines, their women constructed as sex objects, giving some the perception that the apparent power given to them by their

    masters and overlords was a good thing, a constructive thing, a moving-up-the-social ladder thing, when, in fact, it was just another trick, another bait-and-switch, another hustle designed to fool those hungry for recognition, for humanity, for a voice, for their slice of the pie, to give up their self-worth and self-image, to be replaced by a caricature, to be given, yet again, only a prepackaged set of constraints on their destiny. the fight against racism is not for a few. it should be for anyone who can see beyond what they’re told to view, who can take the blinkers off and look at reality, no matter how hard or painful it is. to fight against racism is to expose the blinding light of realness to an unwilling public, a public that is so ambivalent it thinks racism only affects a few, or, even worse, that it isn’t a even problem in the first place.

    this is real to me. is it real to you?

  27. Lxy wrote:

    Whatever the vagaries of Hate Crime laws or the nuances between “positive” and negative stereotypes, this article suggests to me that the Asian American community cannot look to Mainstream America for protection and least of all justice.

    The fact that these rapists would specifically prey upon Japanese exchange students says alot about the “Asian sexual fetish” industry that permeates not only pornography but mainstream pop culture.

    Orientalism is the fundamental perspective through which Americans view Asian people whether in the USA or in Asia itself. Racial, gender, and sexual subjugation are the result.

    And Orientalism will not end–until those institutions, value systems, and individuals who promote it are confronted and brought down.

    The time for “believing in the system” is long past.

  28. Feminist Review wrote:

    This post should have a trigger warning.

  29. embarcadero13 wrote:

    Horrifying. Seems like the prosecutor is breaching his duty of care, by failing to charge for the aggravated crime. Is it because this guy plead to lower his sentence, or because it just never even occurred to the prosecutor?

    This is an example of how prosecutors have too much discretion, and their implicit biases simply reinforce themselves in society.

    We need more prosecutors of color. People of color tend to gravitate to the defense for fear of being a “sellout” to the cause. But this is a prime example of how the cause can have many faces.

  30. Pheagan wrote:

    This puts me in mind of sex trafficking, another area where Asian women are highly represented. The two highest groups are Eastern European women and Asian women, and surely the Asian woman and Russian blonde sex stereotype plays a role in who exactly is targeted by traffickers.

  31. Pheagan wrote:

    @ karak– I disagree with you because I think there’s a real difference between finding a certain type of woman attractive and racial fetishization. For instance, say a guy likes tall girls. He likes tall girls, he dates tall girls. It doesn’t play out more than that. When a guy is really into the Asian fetish, however, it can get really ugly. He doesn’t just buy into her looks, he buys into a racial stereotype– that she’s subservient, for instance. When I lived in Cambodia I saw tons of gross old white dudes with young, beautiful Cambodian chicks. And the big thing I got from watching them was, this could be any young Cambodian chick. He wasn’t in love with her, he had no idea who she was, he could barely communicate with her. But she’d have his kids and provide him with sex and housewifely duties in order to escape her poverty, and he was perfectly happy to use that to his advantage. And maybe you could say, yeah that girl is getting something out of this situation. Sure– but it’s motivated by desperation. With the old white guy, it’s motivated by privilege, and he’s still dehumanizing the hell out of that girl.

    I’ve also seen, and this is why I mentioned the “Russian” girls (they’re from a lot of places, but to white people and Asians alike she’s called Russian, sort of the way all Hispanic people are Mexicans to L.A. people), the white girl sex trade in Japan. The “Russian” girls are one of the most popular brands. And it’s not just about finding their physical type attractive. Japanese people have a complicated history with Russia, and the domination of people from there adds something to it for them. Also there’s the fact that they, like the Cambodian girls, are poor and motivated to work in the sex trade out of desperation. There’s a serious amount of dehumanization there too. I knew a Ukrainian girl who fell in love with her Japanese client and married him and had a kid. Once she popped that baby out, he was done with her. No sex, but he expected her to stay his wife while he went on to another “Russian” girl. This is just to say, racial fetishization very often leads to dehumanization, at least from what I’ve seen.

    The other reason I disagree with you is, rape isn’t (just) about sex, this guy was not targeting Japanese women to date them, he was targeting them to rape. If someone was targeting Japanese people to assault them, there would be a clear racial bias. I’m assuming you’re a guy, and I find that a lot of guys thing of sex as sex you don’t want. They often don’t realize that when a girl doesn’t want to have sex, it’s incredibly painful when forced on her. That’s why I think guys get so confused about sex and think of it more as a bad date than as an assault. Trust me, from the perspective of a girl, it’s a painful and terrifying physical assault. So, when you target a race for a painful and terrifying physical assault, it’s pretty much a hate crime. Even IF this guy is targeting them purely out of physical attraction, his perspective is not the important one here. (If a someone robs a store because they don’t have enough money to pay their mother’s surgery, does their perspective matter?) The important perspective is the girl’s. They were assaulted because they were Japanese. They wouldn’t have been assaulted if they weren’t Japanese. For all purposed of their perspective, it’s a straight up racially motivated crime. That’s how it’s gotta be prosecuted.

  32. Winn wrote:

    “If you ever sere n a jury you can see this in action — you will note that the judge (at least in New York City) will ask that you consider each charge separately and whether the evidence reaches the threshold for that charge.”

    Jess, this only bolsters my point. A jury shoulod have had the opportunity to examine evidence put forward by the prosecution to determine if the crime met the threshold required by the hate crime statutes. This should not have impacted the rape charge itself, but would have been an enhancement to the original charge. Why chouldn’t the prosecutor put forward evidence to support a hate crime enhancement, including the confession of one of the perpetrators? The jury could have at least had an opportunity to analyze any evidence and even if they determined that that threshold was not met, a message still would have been sent that targetting specific groups as desirable sexual assault victims will be taken seriously. No matter how you slice it, the suggestion that sexual desire or exoticism motivated the victim selection helps negate the truth about rape as a crime of violence and control, and makes it about “turn-ons” and fantasy, which is despicable and sexist, as well as dismissive of the very real racism and bias that underlies the perpetrators’ choice of victim.

  33. Westerly wrote:

    Winn, Elton and Lxy – you all make sense for me. I don’t really get this either/or legalistic mind-set.

    These women have been singled out for extreme violence because they are

    A.) Asian.
    b.) Women.

    Hello intersectionality!
    It’s definitely a hate crime. There’s no other way to describe it. What else other than a deep respect and an underlying hatred would inspire you to do that to another fellow human being.

    It’s sickening. All you need to do is throw the word ’sex’ into the picture and people can’t see the obvious.

    Do people really think that rapists secretly love and respect their victims? Do you really think that fetishisation doesn’t dehumanise people? Is it really that shocking a notiong that fear and hatred often go hand-in-hand with so-called ‘attraction’ and obsession?

    I just don’t get it – remember the 14 year old Iraqi girl who was raped and then shot in the head. Apparently, prior to the crime they tried to flirt with her and had a ‘fixation’ on her, etc. Does that mean that it wasn’t a hate crime?

  34. Leila wrote:

    “It was felt that there was no hate involved instead he [the lead rapist] was very infatuated with the Japanese race.”

    Ah yes, the (apparently) ambiguous world of cultural appropriation, wherein the fetishizing of an entire people is construed as affection. I used to live in Japan; I can’t begin to count how many non-Japanese I watched become disillusioned with the country when they realize that life there does not proceed with all the colorful and bouncy frivolity of a giant-chested anime schoolgirl, and that Japanese people tend to act uncannily like… people.

    Maybe “infatuation” was the right word: that regrettable period at the beginning of a (likely) doomed relationship where your objectified image of your mate prevents you from seeing them as a full and real human being.

    I cannot comment on the prosecution, as I neither know nor care to know the vagueries of criminal law. As I see it, the judicial system can only inherit the biases of the culture, and those are what must be changed.

  35. Jean wrote:

    This is disgusting. It makes me think of every time a man tells me he thinks Asian girls are hot and acts like I should take it as a compliment.

    When I was in college I had a few friends from Korea and Japan who were exchange students. They told me, more than once, that they couldn’t stand the way they were treated by men because they were Asian women.

  36. The Cruel Secretary wrote:

    @Winn, Leila, Westerly, and Pheagan–your analyses on why these women being raped equates to a hate crime is spot-on.

    @ Elton–all I can say is thank you for what you said.

  37. lunanoire wrote:

    One thing i found disturbing in school was how assault and battery are treated as violent crimes, but a defendant can escape a charge of sexual assault if he can prove that it was related to attraction and consensual.

  38. Seance wrote:

    To those of you arguing that rape should be deemed as a hate crime because it’s a crime against women:

    I think it needs a better definition than that in order to be accepted in the legal system. If we want rape on women to be a hate crime against women, we have to be prepared to say that child rape is a hate crime against children. Hell, I bet someone will even bring up that bestiality is a hate crime against animals.

    In this case and many others, rape is associated with sex which is associated with admiration/love. It would be difficult to assert the word “hate” into the definition.

  39. gail wrote:

    Re: Cecily @ 13, Seance @ 38, and others. I want to respond, and I really don’t know the answer to what you suggest about how we define the crime of rape and the hatred attached to it. My intuition tells me that Elton @ 26’s post about racism can reveal something about how normal rape has become, and that only when the rapist is a stranger, or the rapist uses other objects to mutilate the victim, that the hatefulness is apparent. I think the hatefulness resides in the boyfriend, acquaintance, friend, lover who sees a woman as not fully human, at least not in the ways that they are human. And so her sexuality can be claimed and controlled, by him.

    Pema Chodron explains a buddhist slogan about “three poisons, three sufferings, three seeds” and says the three poisons are hatred, attachment and apathy (or ignorance). Women are raped and/or sexually assaulted out of both hatred and/or apathy towards their humanity. The result is that millions of women live their lives in ways that reflect responsiveness to this explicit and implicit control. Just my further thoughts about the issue.

  40. longly58 wrote:

    To add to a earlier comment,

    “Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Gurl! wrote:
    It truly sickens me how East Asian (and even South Asian) women are exoticised by white American men, as if they’re “asking” for it.”

    Is not just white men but also women who exoticised Asian women, example Gwen Stefani’s back-up dancers known as the Harajuku Girls. . .

  41. Jess wrote:

    @Winn–

    Read through what I have there again– the point I was trying to get across is that while I might agree that “sending a message” might be desirable, that just isn’t the way the law is set up. And the rules about how to charge people vary from state to state.

    All of us are talking a little out of our collective butts a bit, since we aren’t lawyers in Washington. But while all of what you say is true — that rape is fundamentally a crime of bias (no argument there) or that it might show in the stated motivation of the perpetrator, the law as written may not have allowed for the kind of prosecution you are talking about.

    Look, I can’t charge you with just whatever I feel like fits the crime as I see it. I have to charge you under the idea that there is a prima facie case. And as the judge on the case I was on told us, our job as the jury is to decide whether the accused broke the law, it isn’t to “send a message” or make ourselves feel better.

    That means the DA has to start with the obvious. And it means that I have to have something to hang a bias crime on, and it may mean that I have to make a choice in the charges I bring. Odds are the bill of indictment will have multiple charges in it. And you’ll see assault, battery, rape, a few other things.

    You may not see the bias crime because it may fall under another statute-set, that didn’t fit the immediately available evidence. Remember, all the shit that seems “obvious” to outsiders is usually, well, wrong. When I comment on this I try to be conscious of that.

    And then there’s the question of whether this guy is a violent jerk, a fetishist, or hears voices in his head. All of that complicates the picture.

    And I haven’t read the statute in Washington, so it may well be that it was ill-defined enough that the DA thought it was just asking for a court challenge. I don’t know.

    So yes, juries do get the opportunity to do some of what you say, but it depends on what the prosecutor has in his power to do and what he thinks he can convince a jury of most easily without handing a defense lawyer a lay-up. The law is defined very specifically for a reason, and we shouldn’t all forget that.

    The law is also a rather poor instrument for “sending a message” or what have you because by definition it is dealing with things after the fact. I can’t prosecute you for a hate thought or even, in many cases, hate speech. You have to do something. And believe me, you wouldn’t want it any other way.

    So in that sense, I’d rather have this rapist off the streets — christ, if they had to prosecute him for tax evasion, I’ll take it. Al Capone went down for that for 10 years.

    We all have to understand, law isn’t anything like it is on TV. It just isn’t, and I get the sense that’s what people want.

    The law isn’t sexy, it never offers neat resolutions, and we have one less freak who hates women out there walking. I’m okay with that, however it happens.

  42. Pheagan wrote:

    @ Seance– I think most people are arguing for this particular case to be called a hate crime because he was targeting a racial type, not because he was targeting women.

    But you know, as a woman who has been attacked by strangers on numerous occassions, obviously hoping they could rape me, I kind of do verge on thinking rape is a hate crime on women. And it’s context that makes me verge towards it. Everyone, potentially, can be raped: men, women, children, animals. In the case of the latter two, however, you have something that isn’t present in the case of men and women. Children and animals cannot, by definition, give their consent. And it isn’t because of presumed desire, but because developmentally, they are different from adult humans. They can’t take care of themselves to the agree that adults can, they are dependent on us, and we don’t take their assertions seriously (in the case of children). While the body of a child is taboo in our society, we view sex with a child as rape not because of their undeveloped body but because of their undeveloped mind. Having sex with a child or an animal takes advantage of their dependency, their inability to protect themselves or bring repercusssions to the perpetrator. And when you bring pedophilia and bestiality into the picture, you’re seeing a very messed up individual but not one who is necessarily acting out of hate. Although in some cases perhaps they are.

    I would personally agree that rape crime is indeed often a hate crime against women because the omnipresent threat of rape effectively keeps women under a curfew (a man can walk outside in the dark, but a woman can’t– not even in the suburbs). Because women are raped so much more than men. Because the culture that normalizes rape, doesn’t prosecute many rapes, has an attitude towards male sexuality that is very rape-like in its disenfranchisement of women’s desire and agency, that provides roofies to make rape easier for men, that propagates shame for victims– that culture is a rape culture, in which societal hatred and contempt of women culminates very often in rape. Prostitutes are murdered (how many serial killers have gone through dozens of prostitutes before killing some suburban girl and then catching police attention), women raped by strangers go in for a rape kit which never identifies the perpetrator because society can’t be bothered to work through the rape kit backlog, more men than we’d like to think find it appropriate to pressure a girl into sex, and very often mistake pressuring a girl into it with rape. All of these things are expressions of society’s hatred and contempt of women.
    Meanwhile women are made into rapable objects. They are told not to want sex, that sex is bad for women, but that they should always look attractive, but in a virginal way, which often include heels that make it hard to run and skirts that make it hard to run and easy for a man to rape, and if she is wearing such things when she is raped, she will be blamed for it and shamed for it.
    My life as a woman is not as free as a man’s and it’s rape that keeps it that way. Going out at night, traveling alone– these are things that require preparation, care, and anticipation of danger, and that danger is rape.
    Oh, but I forgot: “In this case and many others, rape is associated with sex which is associated with admiration/love. It would be difficult to assert the word “hate” into the definition.” The reason I have a curfew is because of admiration and love. The reason the words slut and whore exist for women and not men is because of admiration and love. The reason I have been attacked, had my nose broken, had weapons pulled on me, is because of admiration and love.
    Fuck that noise.

  43. Jaemin Kim wrote:

    I’m glad to see my article on Huffington Post was picked up on this site. So many of your comments are thoughtful and incisive. For those of you who had questions about “hate crimes” in the context of rape — please go to the HuffPo link above to my full article and the comment section to see my explanations.

    Please — consider reposting some of your wonderful comments directly on the HuffPo site to further the dialogue on this under-the-radar issue.

    Thanks! Jaemin Kim

  44. Seance wrote:

    @Pheagen

    I’m pretty much agreeing with you there. I too feel that, in general, female rape is a hate crime against females. I can feel the disgust and contempt toward women in the words and actions of certain men. I can feel it now that I’m stuck at home at night even though I want to go out on my own.

    But I don’t know how to put it into real “legal terms” and if I don’t, my feelings are likely to be lost in the system. I’d want for a law or a policy that made legal sense to back this up so victims of a hate crime rape can be rightly acknowledged and defended legally. I’d want myself and others to be protected. So that is what prompted my posting…I was playing a little devil’s advocate.

    @ Jaemin: Fortunately, you did indeed go over some of the legal definitions in your comments. This was great insight. Thank you!

  45. Minotaar wrote:

    @Pheagan: I find the statement “the omnipresent threat of rape effectively keeps women under a curfew,” with regard to the first world, completely offensive. No one denies the existence and reprehensibility of rape in all of its grotesque forms. However, to tacitly accuse the entire male gender does nothing to further your very important cause. Your accusations simply create enemies that resent the blunt attacks of your words. Not all men are capable of rape, nor are we all your enemies. Not by intention, not by indoctrination, not by subconscious action. Friendly fire helps no one in any war.

  46. A. wrote:

    Rape, while it often happens to women, can also be used against men as well. That defense on it’s own doesn’t cut it. Rape is sex by force, in the most simple legal definition.

    A Hate Crime is generally defined as something that involves threats, harassment, violence motivated by prejudice against someone’s race, national origin, sexual orientation, mental/physical disability, etc.

    This act was motivated by prejudice. It may not be negative stereotyping, but it is prejudice all the same. The very term “Asian Fetish” in and of itself denies the humanity of these women. If this isn’t a hate crime, I don’t know what the hell is.

  47. theboxman wrote:

    Minotaar: I don’t see any such accusation in what Pheagan wrote. Besides, in a form analogous to the operations of systemic racism, whether individual men are capable of rape or not is not the issue here. It is that the very existence of just the threat of rape systematically excludes women from full participation in social life. And as a man who is not subject to the same exclusion, I and all other men derive privilege from this structure and as such, all necessarily implicated in it. Rape is at once a form of systemic violence as it is an individual crime.

    Besides, what’s with the “with regard to the first world” caveat? Is that meant to suggest that “third-world” men are more of a threat to women than so-called “first-world” men? Really?

  48. Minotaar wrote:

    @theboxman: I agree that the existence of the threat of rape creates a systematic exclusion that we derive privilege from. However, I do not agree with the idea that the threat of rape is omnipresent, at least in the first world.

  49. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @Minotaar – Seriously? You did read my piece on the Not Rape epidemic, right? And how most young girls are taught all these tactics to ward off rapists because it *is* considered an ever-present threat for women?

  50. Matt wrote:

    Coincidentally, I was at the Brooklyn Courthouse for an Interfaith rountable on hate crimes this morning. One point I found interesting was that it is generally much harder to prove hate as a motivator in attacks on individuals than in attacks on institutions. Someone attacking, say, a mosque or synagogue leaves plenty of evidence of motivation. But in a case like this it might be harder to prove the necessary points to a jury. (Especially, as I’m aware, Washington state is a lot more conservative and racist than its reputation. The liberal rep is mostly just about Seattle.)

  51. Pheagan wrote:

    @ Minotaar– First of all, I don’t accuse all men of being rapists. I don’t get how you got that out of my post. It doesn’t take every single man to create a rape culture, and a lot of rape culture has to do with the complicity and body hatred and slut shaming on the part of women.

    Second of all, I have been attacked on a walk home at night in the first world many times. In America, about five times. In Korea, which I consider first world, twice in the six months I was there. Every woman I know has either been attacked, raped, or gone through the not-rape type experiences that Latoya talked about a few posts ago. So I don’t think I’m unreasonable to consider rape an omnipresent threat. You should be glad you don’t understand what it’s like to feel that threat. It’s a privilege and a luxury.

    @ Seance– I hear you on the legal definition point. I do think that your quote I used is what a lot of people think, and a big reason so many rape cases are dismissed in court.

  52. Minotaar wrote:

    @Latoya/Pheagan – I dont disagree with the threat of rape being present, even in the first world, and that the existence of this threat (and the complicity of a subset of men and women in the culture of rape) creates privilege. However, I feel that using the term “omnipresent” is rhetorical, and I feel that using this term creates enemies to the cause by implying that all individuals are a threat.

    If there exist some individuals who are not a threat, then obviously the threat of rape is not omnipresent. I agree with the point that the threat of rape is frequently present, commonly present, routinely present, etc. But why overstate? I’m sorry if this feels like hairsplitting to you, but I just felt a little offended that I am automatically part of that OMNIpresent threat, when I am your outspoken ally.

  53. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @minotaar – If I saw you on the street, how would I judge if you would/would not be a threat? I’ve only got your word – and most of us who have been in a fucked up situation (rape or not rape, male or female) know that stated intentions don’t mean anything when someone takes a contradictory action.

    And I believe the feminist blogosphere was all over that Kyle person last year. He was allegedly a feminist ally but had sexually assaulted someone at his university.

    I understand what you are saying, and as a male ally I know you don’t want to be lumped in, but as a woman who lives with this daily, it is a threat. It’s a threat from people I know and from people I don’t, and while I feel safe enough around some people to drop my guard, it doesn’t mean that shit can’t happen. And minimizing that reality because you feel offended, isn’t really being a good ally.

    Put it in a different context – If I’m listening to my gay friends talk and they’re saying “I can never trust my straight friends to really stand with me when its tough or when theirs something to lose” I could respond and be offended and be mad that they are lumping me in a box. Or I could hear them, and understand that yes, I may be doing what I can, but I understand their frustration and they have a right to be frustrated that more people don’t take action.

    Just call it the golden rule of being an ally – if it isn’t about you, it isn’t about you.

  54. Winn wrote:

    @ Jess,

    Just to let you know, I don’t need to read through your response again. I understood you perfectly the first time. The OP author addressed some of the issues about the hate crime enhancement in her article; I see no need to rehash those here. Suffice it to say that while I am not an attorney and never claimed to be, I have served on more than one jury, worked for years as a Court-Appointed Special Advocate for children, and have spent much time in family and criminal courts in my capacity as a mental health counselor, often providing court-mandated therapy. My knowledge of the law extends beyond episodes of Law and Order or Boston Legal, and the implicit condescension in your response was unnecessary and inaccurate.

    You wrote the following (in italics no less, so I couldn’t miss your emphasis) “the law as written may not have allowed for the kind of prosecution you are talking about.” True, but it may have, and the district attorney may have made a decision based on myriad reasons not to seek that enhancement. We don’t know, thus the prompting for the article and the need to engage in dialogue about this issue. After all, the police failed to report this as a bias crime as well, and this was a decision made by those handling the case because of assumptions about exoticization, fetishization, and the idea that “infatuation” somehow negates the focused targetting of a specific group of women for sexual assault. Was it a “compliment” to these victims that their perpetrators were “infatuated” with women who looked like them? Did this benefit them in some way? Were their attackers kinder and gentler to them than they would have been if the women had not been Japanese? Are they lucky because if they were not Japanese, these attackers would have never showed their infatuation by raping and brutalizing them?

    People are asking these questions, and they should be asked. Perhaps there is an easily definable reason in the Washington and California statutes that prohibited such an enhancement. Perhaps bringing this to light will galvanize people to get the statute changed. The last time I checked, the law is not static, and there are human beings (to lesser or greater degrees) behind them. I’m never been a big fan of the people who sit back and say, “Well, damn it, it sucks, but that just they way it is”. I’d hate to think where we’d be today if no one questioned the status quo or agitated for change.

  55. Jess wrote:

    Winn– I didn’t mean to sound condescending, but I am really wary of outrage. That’s just me, because my experience has been that whatever I get angry about something I am also about to do something I will regret.

    So granted, when I see people hit the outrage button, my first reaction is to ask “What facts to we have? Do we really know what we are talking about? Might we all be wrong?”

    So I try to be conscious of asking people their motivations, asking why they do what they do, before judging anything. I’ve been surprised by the answers enough times, lord knows.

    All this is to say that I would agree wholeheartedly that the law has people behind it, and we know that certain decisions were made, and they often reflect the biases of those people. But none of us here knows why. None of us.

    Did the police not report it as a hate crime because the man said he had an Asian fetish or because they thought he was just a crazy sicko, and didn’t fit the “profile?” Most cops I know didn’t take race theory, as I remember, and the kind of stuff we have the luxury of asking here might not lend itself to the middle of an arrest. I just don’t know, and I haven’t seen anyone interview the cops yet to ask.

    So I get nervous about imputing motivations to people when I have no idea and can’t really say for sure that I understand the decision making process. It isn’t to deny that racism or sexism is a problem, just to take a step back and figure this stuff out. Because to me, that’s the way you get the kind of social change you are talking about.

    Maybe it’s my reporter’s/science geek’s background. I believe in what I can see and touch, and what I can prove with the facts in front of me.

    Because that’s the only way I feel like I can get to the meat of any problem — especially those of social change.

    And I would stand by what I said about the law — to me, the law is an end point, a sort of expression of what we as a society want to say is beyond the pale or not. It isn’t a place to start. The end of legal segregation, for instance, followed massive protests, demographic changes, and changes in the culture. It did not lead them. (Brown v. Board of Ed was decided after the major protests were building for years). By the time the law changes, the larger culture has usually already changed to accommodate it, you see what I mean? So to me, when people say they want to send a message with a prosecution, I feel like it’s approaching the whole problem backwards.

    Does this make any sense? I don;t think we disagree on some major points you made.

  56. G.K. wrote:

    I read about this case (the one involving the assault-kidnapping of the Japanese women) some 6 or 7 seven years ago on an Asian-American site (can’t remember if it was Asian Avenue—probably was,now that I think about it) and for some reason, the article about the case was’t fully downloaded online, so I never got to finish reading it to find out what happened to the perpetrators. Good to know they got locked up, at least.

    Yeah, what happened to them was a straight-up hate crime—they were targeted specifically BECAUSE they were Japanese women, and another I remember from that article—-they were also singled out because according to the article, Japanese women rarely report rape because it’s a source of shame to them and their families—I ‘m just going by that article, if I’m wrong about that, someone please let me know. So these perverted perps had also targeted them with the knowledge that because of that cultural belief, they would get away with doing what they did to those women,plain and simple. I don’t see how that could NOT fit under the definition of a hate crime.

  57. Anonymous wrote:

    ugh…this article literally made me vomit.

    This is the most horrible thing I have ever read. What happened to the women was horrible. And the fact that the police refuse to label it as a hate crime is ALSO very very horrible.

    I hope those rapists get their comeuppance in jail. There should be a special place for them in hell. And preferably, they also receive hell on earth.

  58. Danielle wrote:

    “It was felt that there was no hate involved instead he [the lead rapist] was very infatuated with the Japanese race.”

    Wow. That is an amazingly disgusting comment. So it isn’t a hate crime if the rapist claims to “really like” the victims? WTF? Doesn’t the fact that she was raped show that the jerk hated the victims? Isn’t raping someone a hateful act? This is just gross because by saying that the guy just had a thing for Asians seems like their trying to downplay the offense. It is COMPLETELY a hate crime. and another thing about the “…infatuated…” comment: one doesn’t debase something they put on a pedestal.

  59. Pheagan wrote:

    Minotaar– Here’s how I parse it: the THREAT of rape is omnipresent, not the threat of rape is OMNIpresent. I’ve been attacked 10 times out of the hundreds of times I’ve walked around by myself. Obviously it’s not as if every time I go out it’s gonna happen. But the threat is there. A threat isn’t an event– it’s the potentiality of an event. But every time I go out, the THREAT is there. I put on a big hoodie, wear shoes I can run in, and bring a knife. Because the potential for attack is always there. Not because all men want to rape, but because some men do.

  60. BlackDahlia wrote:

    This is horrible!! The Japanese women are PERCEIVED as being weaker by this bastard, so he seeks them out to perpetrate rape? As a Black woman, I know the labels that come attached to me without me opening my mouth or anyone getting to know me. I am automatically “bossy” and “strong” and “loud” or whatever else that Eurocentric perceptions have cultivated. Japanese women bear the brunt of the opposite side of the same coin. They are “weak” and “pliant” and “submissive”…or at least PERCEIVED to be. I am OUTRAGED for these poor women.

    On another note, I think there is something seriously wrong with the XY mutation. I mean…just how violent will they get??

    Mod Note – Commenting note, don’t generalize whole groups. XYs are not the enemy. – LDP

  61. Minotaar wrote:

    Pheagan, why must I parse everything the way you parse it? Am I automatically wrong because I dont apply capitalized emphasis on the words you believe to be most important? I am not your enemy, and I would appreciate it if you recognized that by taking the time to pick your words carefully with allies like myself in mind.

    Latoya made an excellent point; that the existence of the threat cannot be perceived, especially given the spike in “not rape” described in horrific detail by Latoya in her earlier post, so we could assume that the threat is omnipresent for safety. I agree with this point. Latoya continued her comment saying that if I am indeed a male ally, then I should try not to take offence when comments like yours are made – comments that imply that all men (and really all other humans) are a rape threat. That doesnt mean that you should run roughshod on the male gender and mow down your allies with your enemies, no matter what the actual ally/enemy proportions are. Never forget that there are women who actively work against our cause, and that they are not uncommon.

    Its too easy to draw lines of skirmish along gender lines, and I dont think I’m wrong to take offense that my presence implies a threat of rape. Such thinking and such rhetoric is no different from suggesting that the presence of a black male implies a threat of violence, or that the presence of a Japanese female implies a potential for sexual submission. While I am your ally, and as Latoya suggested, while I will ignore the awkward rhetoric that bumps friend and foe alike, like a thousand sharp elbows in an elevator that is too small (lol theres some shitty rhetoric for ya!), I think it would help our cause more if you tried to be more diplomatic.

  62. Pheagan wrote:

    Minotaar– it is way late is the game on this, but here’s a quote from my last comment: “Not because all men want to rape, but because some men do.” I don’t understand how my comments imply all men rape. I just plain didn’t say it. Not did I say every man is threatening. And it’s got nothing to do with parsing, either– no matter how you parse the sentence “the threat of rape is omnipresent for women”, you do not get 1) every man is a rapist or 2) every human is a rapist. And you seem at this point to agree with that sentence, which both Latoya and I have gone to pains to explain, so I truly, truly don’t understand what you are still offended by.

    While I’m not going to insult men, hate all men, etc. etc., which I really don’t think I’ve done, I’m not going to walk on eggshells either. That’s what you seem to be requiring me to do. You don’t seem to be trying to understand what I’m saying, you seem to be trying this into some sort of reverse sexism thing which it wasn’t and isn’t so even though you probably won’t read this, I’m just gonna say this: I stand by my comments and don’t see anything in them that would make any reasonable person come to the conclusion that I think or imply that every man is a rapist.

  63. nmahaj wrote:

    I have a friend born and raised in Japan who has lived in the U.S. for around 20 years. She has shocked me with her statements regarding race and identity. As a South Asian woman, I had never before heard such things except ironically or as part of comedy routines. She dates “caucasian men”. She told me that a mna she had been seeing told her he had “yellow fever”. As she said this she was smiling and full of pride. When I told her this was a rude thing to say, she said “no,no. It means he likes asian women sexually”. I told her I knew what it meant but it is a disrespectful thing to say.

    She has told me she feels more comfortable dating men with this preference. She dates men she meets online and says “you know how men are…they just want sex. Most are married or have a girlfriend”. But I believe she is attracting these unavailable,racist men because of the way she presents herself and to whom she is attracted. She says things like “but I want to play” explaining why she’ll sleep with a man who is disrespectful (ex: a white guy who tells her mixed race kids are no good).

    I have gently suggested that she may get more respect from someone who wants to know her as aperson, not as an “asian chick who wants to play”. But she thinks I don’t understand and that having men attracted to her race is flattering.

    She was telling me about how she slept with a man to whom she proudly introduced me. This guy was a jerk. Among other things, he made jokes about marriage and women; about women getting older and uglier; about how women who are overweight consider sex for rent money to be prostitution whereas pretty women consider it a benefit of beauty, etc. She laughed at his jokes all night and seemed proud of his machismo and getting “drunko”.

    When she described the sex with him she said” he is so big, it hurt. Asian women are smaller than other women”. She had made other reacial genital generalizations in the past as well. She has also made homophobic comments such as “my Japanese friends tell me gay men walk like this when they get old because of anal sex”. Then she walks in a ludicrousfashion with her feet spread wide apart. I said that is not true and then she explained there is anal damage. She made another bizarre reference to gay sex and I told her,that I have confirmed that thisis not so with doctors but still she was insistent. She considers herself the opposite of prejudiced, gays are fun!

    She wants badly to get married and have children. Her friend in Japan who just wanted to be married but is in an unhappy marriage told her “act more feminine to get a husband”. I wanted to scream but I told her “you are feminine”. She said ” no no no. I should wear more skirts and high heels. Also the women in Japan serve people more. I want to serve a man more-it is feminine.”I don’t even think she listened to what I said about subservience and our gender.

    Then she told me she and a friendwere taking a pole-dancing class. I told her I am certainly not doing that but maybe I will meet her later.
    She did not understand what I had against pole-dancing. She told me that a cancer survivor taught the pole-dancing class and it was apositive thing. I was just disgusted and annoyed. She said she was disappointed in me and my reaction to pole-dancing and how affirming it was and how the cancer survivor got self esteem through pole-dancing and that the women poledance for themselves.

    So on and on. I told her that some of her beliefs were sexist and rascist and that we could disagree but that certain remarks were ignorant and I did not to hear them. She seems to be shocked by my response. I cannot believe what she thinks. She seems to take pride in being obsequious and subservient. When I told her that just because a man sleeps with you, doesn’t mean he likes you. I told her about a guy at work who prefers affairs with asian women because he they will never make trouble for his wife like those too hot to handle spanish girls. She said she would never make trouble for a man if he no longer wanted to see her.

    Howcan I introduce her to ideas of race,gender,identity and power? She doesn’t see my point and is offended by using the word ignorant. Her friends agree with her and she has never encountered my view. Any suggestions?

  64. Julietta wrote:

    nmahaj: What you wrote really struck a cord with me. I used to be an exotic dancer; an educational experience indeed. My life is thankfully substantially different now; no more dancing and a bright future with a strong career that is totally unrelated to my past profession. I knew a girl from Thailand who said many of the same things your friend said. She had a good heart, but to put it bluntly, this is what happens when girls are uneducated; and equally uneducated boys would not have it any other way. Despite East Asian girls being in “higher demand” particularly in the “yellow fever-inflicted” SF Bay Area, Asian dancers were always paid less than girls of other ethnicity. I think the fetish is a way of ostensibly being in a relationship without having to think of the other person as a person; hence not having to pay the Asian dancer as much, because she is more foreign and somehow less human. But for the girls, feeling appreciated and getting some kind of attention is a good feeling, even when the only appreciation and attention you get is sexual. Unfortunately it sounds like your friend has nothing else going on in her life besides hurrying up to get married and have babies, and eventually to get old and die. This is WAY depressing; does she have any other hobby or passion in life (besides looking for a man to lean on)?

    I’m not Asian (I’m one of those Spanish girls that makes trouble!) but I dated a guy who had an Asian fetish (go figure) and for a long time I felt bad for not fulfilling this fetish for him. I soon realized that I had nothing to worry about; to be fetishized means someone is not seeing you for the person you are, they are seeing you for some made-up construct in their mind that has no basis in reality, which is quite a pathetic prospect if you think about it. When I was able to focus on things that make me happy and create a career for myself and life outside of men, I began to demand a bit more respect for myself. Don’t get me wrong, I love men and I deeply love my husband (a different guy, no fetish, totally respectful), but I believe women need to be able to live on their own, independently of men or the desire to attract men, in order to really become powerful and independent people. How is your friend going to feel after so many years of marriage and her superficial/immature/uneducated husband doesn’t treat her with respect? Is this really the life she wants to carve for herself?

    As to the rape case, I agree that this should be regarded as a hate crime. “Oh but it’s not a hate crime I have a high regard for Japanese women” is not an excuse. Obviously one ethnic group was targeted, and if I were Japanese I would be infuriated that it is not considered a hate crime because the attackers were “infatuated.” Is rape in general then not really a crime, as long as the attacker is infatuated with his victim?

  65. chicagorose wrote:

    Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Gurl! wrote:

    “It truly sickens me how East Asian (and even South Asian) women are exoticised by white American men, as if they’re “asking” for it.

    Because of this, I’ve heard so many racist, nasty remarks targeted at Asian women from White, Black, and dark skinned women who feel resentment toward Asian women.

    Fuck.”

    This. Racism isn’t just racism when it affects me. Thank you for pointing it out plainly and boldly.

    Hell f*cking yes these are hate crimes.