Assimilated Beauty

by Guest Contributor Lisa Leong, originally published on the AZN Television blog

“That’s colonialism all over your face!”

The quote is from one of my favorite Asian American Studies professors on eyelid surgery, nose bridge implants, and any other kind of cosmetic surgery that transforms Asians physical features into more Caucasian ones. She meant that there is one standard of beauty—the Western one—that gets imprinted on our faces, our bodies, and our senses of self.

It’s easy to see that the Western ideal of blond-haired, blue-eyed, All-American (or Ayran, if you’re more sinister) beauty is the dominant standard. Look no further than the all-present world of popular media. Advertisements, TV, and movies glorify beautiful faces, but these beautiful faces don’t look anything like me—or you, probably. Every billboard says, “This is Beauty, and you are not quite it. Envy my bag, my hair, my look and my, uh, eyelids.”

Racialized plastic surgery is a popular topic on talk shows like Tyra and Montel. They raise the question: does eyelid surgery erase or enhance race? The audience nods along in agreement that eyelid surgery is a way for Asians to conform to white prettiness. The plastic surgeon and his patients say that they are just enhancing Asian looks. I may not have big, round eyes, but I can see perfectly well what’s going on here.

These girls feel really bad about themselves. Liz and Keyounga (the guests on Tyra and Montel) both say they were “the only Asian girl at school” and remember being called “chink.” They have memories of face-to-face racism. I can sympathize with that. Eyelid surgery is not simply a matter of wannabe white, it’s also about trying to remedy their experiences of racism.

The crease, that coveted fold, is such a small thing, but it has come to mean so much. This is because the eye is the quintessential sign of Asian difference. The “Asian” eye is the focus point of racial taunting, like “slant-eyed” you-know-whats and “ching chong” jokes with the accompanying hand gesture. Going into surgery, Keyounga says, “Maybe I won’t get called chink anymore.”

Plastic surgery offers a way to hide those physical features that have been denigrated. Getting new eyelids or a new nose is a form of racial covering. The term is Kenji Yoshino’s, who explains that to cover is to tone down a disfavored identity to fit into the mainstream. And covering is something everyone does because behaving mainstream is a social necessity. (I’m not a plagiarizer, so you can read this on page ix of his book Covering).

So, in effect all this westernizing plastic surgery is a form of assimilation. You can swim in the mainstream instead of upstream by transforming your appearance. The slanted monolid eye is the marker of Asian difference, so changing it brings you closer to sameness. Does it really?

Liz and Keyounga are aware that plastic surgery doesn’t make them look white. “I’m still Asian,” says Liz, but she doesn’t seem too happy about it. Eyelid surgery patients are probably not trying to pass as white, but they are at least trying to appear part white. They come out of surgery Eurasian, with a few European features like a “tall” nose or slighter bigger eyes added to their generally Asian faces. It’s a double-bind of wanting to be Asian, but not too Asian. In other words, wanting to be different and the same as “everybody else.”

Getting cosmetic surgery is a personal choice, but even our most personal choices are influenced by dominant culture. Internalizing western notions about what is beautiful (and what is ugly) happens almost subconsciously. Knowing that Western beauty is dominant, has helped me question its standardization. I guess that means I won’t be getting my face “colonized” any time soon.

This story has been reprinted with permission from the Asian American Journalists Association.

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Comments

M wrote:

Wow, an excellent post.

While I’m not Asian-American, I feel the term ‘racial covering’ still applies to me all the same, what with all the GHDs (which stands for ‘Good Hair Day’), Dark & Lovely products, & platnium blonde hair colour products pushed in our faces.

I also think mainstream media has a pivotal role in racial covering (although there are obviously other factors), with up-&-coming popstars going through publicised yet subtle ‘transformations’ as a part of a rising profile… I know it had an effect on me as a teenager.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 6:35 am ¶
Lisa wrote:

Um, re “all this westernizing plastic surgery”: it is incorrect and kinda…racist…to use “Western” as a euphamism for European Caucasian. “Western” is a cultural orientation (one that is used too generally, defined too vaguely), not a race. Not all Westerners are Caucasians, not all Caucasians are Westerners. You can’t “look” Western.

Asian-Americans already ARE Westerners. Implying otherwise is precisely the sort of ignorance that this site combats. It’s a bit akin to saying that only whites can be truly “American”.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 6:38 am ¶
AC wrote:

Very interesting article. I live in Japan right now, and actually had to spend my afternoon today translating the packaging to a popular brand of eyelid glue at my part-time job, so it made me think. Glues and surgeries are extremely popular over here. Hell, the other day I even found a product at a beauty supply shop that claims to “make your nose taller” – I had no idea that the nose-bridge (or even the eyelid! I always thought the non-double eyelid was beautiful, coming from a clueless whitey like myself) was for many women here as much a source of stress as my jiggly thighs are to me. In the beginning it was mind-boggling to me – I was getting compliments from Japanese girls about parts of my body I never thought about – oh, your skin is so WHITE! (aka: pasty Scottish/Irish genetics) Your hair is so..BROWN! I wasn’t sure how to react to that. Even the “asian beauty” niche is all about the white, white skin (that got me teased all through grade school, go figure). I’ve never felt so guilty to get praised.

There’s also a lot of young people into hip-hop culture that spend all their time in tanning salons or getting their hair permed or braided, trying to look black.

But the part that is fascinating to me is that from this side, all these western standards of beauty are being chased, but western women themselves don’t seem to be in all that much demand, other than modeling jobs. Here they are obviously the majority, not the minority, yet they’re still trying to, whether consciously or not, look more like the same people that many of them would refuse to sit next to on the subway. The goals of the Asian-Americans you talk about in this article are the same, but yet the motivation seems to be different.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 9:41 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

Oh, and to add to Lisa’s comment about being “western”: The definition of “western” differs from place to place. If you’re in North America, “west” often means midwest and beyond. My CBC cousins, who were born in Saskatchewan and raised in Alberta are true-blue westerners. The Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, on the other hand, is not “true-blue” because he grew up in Toronto.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 10:25 am ¶
Eva wrote:

I don’t know how I feel about this. On one hand I don’t think it’s right to get plastic surgery because you think it will make you look “less ethnic” on the other hand, hair coloring or straightening wouldn’t make me look “white.”

On this issue sometimes I feel live and let live.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:07 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

Without denying the general thrust of the argument here — after all, the continuing impact of colonialism has been so pervasive, so far-reaching that its reproductions of the aesthetic and corporeal values of a hegemonic culture should come as little surprise — I nevertheless cannot help but be wary that there’s also a need to be careful of being reductive here. I think there’s also an argument to be made that this is overdetermined, that is, that yes, it is a form assimilation as a deracializing desire, but at the same time, perhaps not only that.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:31 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

> Asian-Americans already ARE Westerners.

I understand the argument as it plays out against the context of the perpetual foreigner discourse. That said, shouldn’t the point also be to call into question this very category “Westerner” in the first place rather than simply asserting membership into it?

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:33 am ¶
Orville wrote:

I am also not Asian American but it isn’t just Asian Americans that utilize comestic surgery to gain obtain white features.
I think the reason some people of colour get involved in plastic surgery it is really about wanting to be accepted. In society it is true the classic image of beauty is white beauty. The question remains how can people of colour combat this image and empower ourselves? What can be done about it? I kind of wished the article went into more detail about that?

Just look at the Jackson family just about all of them have gotten nose jobs to appear more European looking. But then again there are some white people that collegen implants because their lips are too thin.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:34 am ¶
Maggie wrote:

I suppose geishas have been painting their faces white for centuries due to pressure from Caucasians.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:41 am ¶
Matt wrote:

When I was in Korea, mostly Inchon, we went to a mall a few times. The mannequins all had Northern European facial features. There wasn’t any attempt at realistic skin tones, but that only made it eerier for me, as if to say, “race doesn’t matter so long as you look white.” When I asked Soo if this was typical in Korea, she was surprisingly animated when she said it is. Koreans are very forthright that their standard of beauty is to look “Western.”

(Btw, “Ayran, if you’re more sinister”? It’s been a stereotype for some time that Jewish women get nose jobs. Since before anyone had the theory to say “colonialism all over your face.” The beauty standard is stricter than simply “white.”)

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:41 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

> I suppose geishas have been painting their faces white for centuries due to pressure from Caucasians.

Different historical moment, different conceptions of the “face” as a signifying surface, and as such, incommensurable to the post-1890s period in Japan with the operations of racialization and its impacts.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 11:54 am ¶
Monie wrote:

It seems that (some) people of color are so bogged down in what ‘my group’ is going through that we all miss how similar our experiences are.

I’m not referring to the author of this piece, just making a general observation about the stuff people of color suffer from.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 12:03 pm ¶
Aris wrote:

This is how this is going to go: People are going to deny that this is a problem, then they’re going to compare the global desire to look White to the White American tanning trend (even though it really is not the same), and then just sum the whole thing up with “Hey, we all want what we don’t have!”

It happens all the time. xD

But yeah….. I think I remember there being a time as a kid when I thought that White people were prettier (I’m Black, 16 years old), I also had bad stereotypes of Black people. Until I saw the light But I definately blame the media…..

Besides, if it’s simply a case people admiring and desiring to obtain what they don’t have, why isn’t Exotic Eye Surgery (surgery to slant your eyes) more poplar with Caucasians and other non-Asians? Why doesn’t a Nose Flattening Surgery (or they could call it “nose softening surgery”) exist? Why aren’t hair texturizers more popular? Why isn’t brown skin that popular, or desired? Why is there no surgery to ERASE your double eyelid?

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 12:23 pm ¶
Aris wrote:

If you look at some East Asian paintings of beautiful women that were drawn before the desire to look White came about, you’ll notice that alot have small eyes and softer noses…

And I remember reading somewhere that at one time, smooth dark skin was favored in Sudan…

The prefrence White features hasn’t always existed…..I just wonder when it’s going end U_U

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 12:32 pm ¶
Rchoud wrote:

I agree with the author that Asians or Asian-Americans who receive racialized cosmetic changes, whether it be temporary or permanent, generally do it to look at least part-white or mixed. Most people understand that they can usually never be mistaken for being fully white after changing their ethnic looks so that’s not what they’re going for. Like in South Asia light skin isvery much coveted. But usually light skin there is meant to be light brown in color like a tan. Some South Asians naturally possess skin as white as Europeans and the ones that desire it know that those bleaching creams are not capable of giving you completely white skin contrary to what’s advertised. So light brown skin color is usually what’s desired.

Today’s popularity throughout the world of the white beauty ideal as reinforced by the English language MSM has caused a growing number of nonwhites to covet so-called “Western” features that were never popular before. Like in the part of South Asia that I’m from, women from my mother’s generation never found light hair, especially blonde, attractive. As for light eyes most older people I know find them to be unusual but not any more attractive than dark brown eyes. In fact older people used to refer to light eyed peoples as being “crafty and stealthy” therefore untrustworthy. They also used to jokingly say that light eyed people had “cat’s eyes”, which is what my husband was called when he was younger.

Now the younger generation has increasingly become fascinated with light skin, hair and eyes especially on a South Asian thanks to Bollywood and to a lesser extent Hollywood. Now increasingly alot of young women like to dye their hair different colors and/or sport contact lenses.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 12:52 pm ¶
Sobia wrote:

I always love reading pieces such as this because they help remind me that it hasn’t been/isn’t just me who has dealt with feelings of inferiority because of my South Asian features. I guess I have been colonized. To be honest, as a young girl, I quickly learned to look to Bollywood and South Asian media for beauty ideals as opposed to Hollywood or North American media. And it was this relation to Bollywood actresses that kept me from feeling absolutely ugly. I’m now thinking this may explain my obsession with Bollywood as a young girl especially considering I grew up in a part of Canada that is more than 99% White (yes, I said more than).

And although I agree that getting plastic surgery is a personal right and choice, a big part of me believes that when one lives in a racist world, being political is also very important. And part of being political, to me, is resisting our desires to be more like the colonizers and be proud of ourselves.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 2:31 pm ¶
Melissa wrote:

From what I`ve experienced in Japan at least, I don`t get the sense that race and nationality are often thought of as separate concepts. There is not a lot of room for any gray areas with many people I`ve talked to.

I`ve had interesting conversations with stylists at hair salons about this concept, since what we share in common makes them a majority here as Japanese nationals and me a minority in my home country. I have yet to run into a female stylist with hair as dark as mine over here, yet alone saying they were actively rebelling against the trend. (Granted, I`m in a more rural area of Japan, but still…unless they`re going for a goth look, light brown is still the look of choice.)

I`ve seen a trend that`s been around for awhile of Japanese women and girls straightening their hair bone straight. It`s not clear to me sometimes why, though…for reasons of racial pride, to try to appear like they have a finer texture of hair they believe to be more caucasian-like, or to mimic popular black actresses/singers who straighten their hair.

I do see more black/brown models on posters for cosmetic counters here than I used to, but by and large, Japanese women with lighter skin/skin touched up to appear fair and caucasian models dominate.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 2:36 pm ¶
bradski wrote:

I think the Caucasian ideal of beauty is actually a northern European standard. Many eastern European Jews and southern European whites get nose jobs to remove “bumps,” make their noses upturned, or smaller to look “All-American.”

Think about people like Jennifer Aniston. She’s Greek. She a typical Greek look but had her nose “fixed.”

As for Asian-Americans who have plastic surgery, CBS News’ Julie Chen had plastic surgery that greatly altered her looks.

http://www.goodplasticsurgery.com/2004/07/09/julie-chen-gets-hot/

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 2:37 pm ¶
ejunco wrote:

great post people should need to try to be proud of who they are, in the end it’s their choice with what they want to do with their body.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 2:44 pm ¶
F. wrote:

http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/167070/Brad-Pitt-spot-Toyota-banned-Malaysia/?DCMP=ILC-SEARCH

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,625200,00.html

Please read either of the linked articles (same story, different sources). Key point in both articles, the quote: “Why must we use their faces in our advertisements? Aren’t our own people handsome enough?”

And it’s true.

Just quickly: Asian girls sporting the dyed-light-hair and colored-contact lenses look, to me, horribly awkward. Kind of like Jessica Alba’s very unfitting bleach-blonde hair and blue contacts in the “Fantastic Four” movies. We were made to look beautiful in our own (darker) skin and our own (dark) hair and our own (dark) eye color. If someone can’t see that, it’s their problem and their loss.

I also don’t understand why many fashion magazines in Asia prefer white or white-Asian models instead of “all”-Asian models. It makes as much sense as if European fashion magazines obviously preferred to hire non-white models– why emulate standards of beauty that are ethnically impossible for the majority of your commercial markets? What are you trying to say? What are you trying to prove?

When Ethiopian model Liya Kebede made the cover of Paris Vogue, or when Vogue Italia had their “Black Issue” they were HUGE stories. When blonde, blue-eyed models and actors get the covers in Japan or China Vogue, it’s no biggie– because it’s so common there. For goodness sake’s– why?

Why accept the beauty ideals of a people who generally don’t accept yours?

Another thing that bothers me: why the world loves Hollywood movies that consistently perpetuate standards of white beauty and often demeaning portrayals of people of color, but “Westerners” would probably NEVER embrace the world’s movie stars and movies in the same way. Sad but true. People outside the US can in all probability name far more Hollywood actors and models than most Americans could name foreign stars. You see Natalie Portman hawking hair products and George Clooney hawking Toyota in Japanese commercials, but where are the Japanese (or any Asian) stars in American commericals?

I just don’t understand, and really hate, how white European media (and standards of beauty) is disseminated throughout the world with such ease, and accepted with such ease by people of color.

I’m not saying people outside the Western world should completely shun Hollywood or anything. But they should watch before they prioritize standards and ideals which, hello!– aren’t culturally and historically their’s and they are genetically incapable of fulfilling. It just does not. Make. Sense.

Aren’t our faces as handsome and beautiful as their’s? Who’s going to believe that if we ourselves can’t?

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 2:47 pm ¶
Miranda wrote:

Like AC, I lived in Japan for a year not too long ago, and I was definitely struck by how pervasive the Western beauty ideal is even in Asia. In fact, I was approached on the street and asked to work as a hair model by a stylist who complimented my sand-colored, wavy hair (two features that most Japanese people don’t share).

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 3:02 pm ¶
UGLY PUNK GURL! wrote:

How sad and repulsive. Asian women are beautiful and should embrace their natural beauty, instead of eliminating it altogether.

People need to stop being so obsessed with White, Blonde, Aryan Nazi beauty ideals and appreciate beauty of ALL RACES, ALL ETHNICITIES.

I saw so many fine, good-looking West Africans, Malaysians, Indians, Chinese Muslims, East Africans, Central Asians, Arabs, North Africans, Indonesians, and many other Muslims of different races and ethnicities, while I was on the Hajj in Saudi Arabia just a few weeks ago.

There is beauty everywhere, folks, stop trying to cover it up with white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes!!!!

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 3:16 pm ¶
Jenjen wrote:

@bradski…Julie Chen…O…M….G….now you can’t tell me that ain’t some mess….just WOW…

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 3:26 pm ¶
UGLY PUNK GURL! wrote:

Julie Chen looks like a f–king Love Doll. Her face is so unbelievably plastic and fake.

Gross.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 3:35 pm ¶
by wrote:

I am half-Chinese, half-Caucasian. Growing-up, I was always aware of the Caucasian standard of beauty and definitely felt left out at times. I just wanted to mention, though, that in my more innocent days as a young woman, before I was more indoctrinated, I used to look in the mirror and pull my eyes up to make them more slanted. I thought I looked more beautiful that way.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 4:09 pm ¶
Reiter wrote:

I’ve known a few Asian girls who opted to have the eyelid surgery, and during my stay in Japan, met some Japanese women who were obsessed with obtaining whiter skin. They would avoid the sun (with umbrellas, crazy high SPF sunscreen, visored hats, wearing long-sleeves and pants during the summer), and even skin-whitening creams and pills.

I think in the context of Japan, it might have something to do with wanting to not look like someone from a rural upbringing (that is, blue collar with skin tanned by the sun from working outdoors all the time) but more like from a white collar upbringing. In this case, white skin meant you were well off financially and socially, and could afford to be indoors all the time for a living. In other words, people didn’t want to look like they were a country bumpkin, for whatever reason.

This was heightened by the fact that the area of Japan I had been living for 4 years was Okinawa, whose native people are generally darker in skin tone than the rest of mainland Japan (and generally Okinawa is considered one of the poorer if not “backwater” prefectures of the country). Whiter skin was genuinely considered a sign of social status there (and if you dated white, all the better for climbing that social ladder too).

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 4:32 pm ¶
bradski wrote:

F,

I disagree about people not being able to change their hair color. There is a difference between someone wanting to express herself through body modification and someone altering her appearance to conform to a dominat society.

For instance, in Japan, some young people have colored their hair to express their individuality only to be castigated by authority figures. Is this kind of self-expression that different from a white kid in America who decides to dye his hair blue or get a Mohawk?

There is a difference between a Michael Jackson-type racial covering versus a Patti Labelle nip-tuck.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 4:45 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

It’s the media – Hollywood and Bollywood movies and TV, fashion ads with white models, and so on.

Possibly a long-standing preference for “pale = not a farmer” (upper class, in other words) plays a role. This was true in Europe for a very long time, and has changed only in the last 50 to 100 years, when “the New Woman” came into vogue, the woman with money and leisure who played outdoors sports. At that point, tans became acceptable and lack of a tan in some circles marked one as too poor to go to some fashionable resort or play an expensive sport.

I am not up on the details of love lyrics and portraiture of the Golden Ages of Indian Hindu and Muslim courts, or of Chinese imperial courts. Some Japanese literature of the 11th century (Genji, Pillow Book) indicated that pale skin was preferred.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 5:03 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

As for plastic surgery for anyone (other than injury victims or people with disfiguring birth defects) – bah, humbug. OK, entertainment folks probably should regard it as standard procedure (but NOT the botox, I like actors to ACT). I am saddened to see everyone else having plastic surgery, particularly if they view it as the only way to stay competitive for jobs or men (applies to both men and women).

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 5:14 pm ¶
Rchoud wrote:

@ Sobia

I have a question for you. Would you say that Bollywood today is very different from the Bollywood of yesteryear? From what I’ve observed, up until the mid-nineties, Bollywood actresses were still physically relatable to the average South Asian viewer. Even though majority were light-skinned most of them had that “classical” Indian look that South Asians find beautiful, they were not stick thin, and they dressed in both South Asian and Western fashions (with an emphasis on South Asian).
Nowadays not only are alot of the actresses light-skinned (with some of them having to fake it though makeup and lighting), but the more popular ones have so-called “Western” features like light hair and eyes (whether these features are fake or not is always hotly debated at least on IMDB). Besides that many of them are as thin as Hollywood actresses and have increasingly opted to wear the skimpiest Western outfits imaginable. On top of this alot of Bollywood backup dancers and models in Indian mags have become white European females with the occaisional black or East Asian woman also there. I find all this to be very depressing since it implies that the “classic look” is something relegated to the past when the society was more traditional, backward and provincial, while the “trendy look” now is more cosmopolitan and modern.

@UPG Mabrouk! Congratulations on completing the Hajj!

@F I completely agree with everything you say and I would like to add that you are completely right about Americans having no idea who foreign actors are while the rest of the world knows everything about Hollywood actors. It’s very rare for a foreign actor to break it in Hollywood and if they do it’s much harder to stay relevant for them than for Hollywood actors. The only foreign actors (other than from Europe, Canada, Australia, South Africa) who I can think of somewhat making an impact were all those Hong Kong actors from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Unlike American and white foreign actors you almost never hear anymore news about them.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 5:44 pm ¶
Melissa wrote:

I don’t agree with eye lid surgery at all. It’s shameful.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 6:00 pm ¶
Sobia wrote:

@Rchoud:

I have noticed a change. And it bothers me a great deal. When I was growing up the actresses were relatable – Madhuri Dixit (love her), Sridevi (who btw had plastic surgery on her nose to make it slimmer and smaller) etc. Even though there was always an attempt to lighten them through lighting and make-up, their features were definitely South Asian, and their body types were slim but attainable – not stick thin. They were women who were incredibly stunning but who would never have been considered “good enough” for Hollywood, even if they were still considered beautiful. And you know, even as a child I knew that.

But now, it seems, Bollywood actresses are trying oh so hard to look Caucasian – from lenses to lighten their eyes, to dyeing their hair, to wearing anything but traditional clothes. Some girls even have more Caucasian features. I think you’re right when you say that looking “Western” means being modern in Indian films. Hell, I think it means being modern in A LOT of the Eastern world. Looking traditional conversely means being backwards and rural.

And the White back-up dancers! OMG! They’re in every film in every song it seems. Its almost become a status symbol. Personally I see this as an unfortunate combination of “White is beautiful” and “White is slutty”. White girls are considered more beautiful and it is believed that White girls are willing to wear much more revealing and skimpy clothes than Indian girls – so why not exploit them. Its the “best” of both worlds for the Indian men who make the films. Its all quite disgusting in my opinion.

But another interesting trend I’ve noticed in Bollywood is an attempt by young male actors to try to emulate Black American culture as portrayed by American media – mainly by copying hip hop music videos it seems. Regardless, its still an attempt to be more American.

But all this makes me wonder if its an attempt to counter Western images of the traditional East as backward and ugly. Instead of saying “the traditional East is not backward and that we can retain our culture and still be modern”, they’ve said “see, we’re just like you – so please stop calling us backward.”

@UPG:
Congrats!
btw…what were you doing checking out people at Hajj? (kidding)

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 7:07 pm ¶
Dirge wrote:

This is what happens when one tries to universalize certain aspect of their culture(Western European models of democracy, western science, European liberal ideals, “modern” technology) yet do so without unhinging, “racial” traits and superficial cultural habits from the package, thus maintaining a heirarchy of expertise and knowledge that is actually based on arbitrary qualities of divested meaning that are nevertheless used as proxies for status and cultural capital.

BTW, while we assume these women of Asian descent are trying to look “white”, Caucasians/ Europeans are not the only ones who possess the features that these women are apparently going for.
This latter comment is not an attempt to counter the thesis just a reminder that there are really no unique “Caucasian/European” features no more than there are unique “African/Black” or “East Asian” features.
We’re all a mish mash of different physical characteristics that are shared by others who don’t reside in our habitat.
With that said, the probability that these women are trying to approximate a “white” look is high.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 7:36 pm ¶
Rchoud wrote:

@Sobia

Thanks for replying and it’s interesting that you mention male Indian actors trying to look more “urban” in the Westernized sense. I hadn’t thought of that trend but you’re right it’s just another way to look more Westernized which is always perceived to be hip and cool. What I’m wondering about though is if looking trying to be more “urban” is like a fad the same way it is for young white youth here in America. Like once they grow older they’ll stop appropriating that culture and begin acting “normal”. Whereas with the women attempting to attain the white ideal of beauty this can not be regarded as a fad because there’s alot more pressure to be beautiful especially as you age than it is to be hip and cool.

@Dirge You’re right whites aren’t the only people possessing these traits in the world; but I think the probability of these women being influenced by that assumption is pretty high too because Western media has a good job perpetuating it.

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 8:31 pm ¶
MelMel wrote:

This topic always blows my mind. As a Eurasian, I already have big, double-lidded eyes (I’ve been called an anime character, har har), but as a kid, I WANTED slanty monolids like my pretty aunties. And thick, silky, black hair to go along with them. Hm. Maybe I should mutilate my face to make a political point about all of this? Or I’ll just stick with my trendy, westernized one, and use my brain. Yeah.

Why hasn’t Nip/Tuck had an episode on the subject?

Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 9:23 pm ¶
Colleen wrote:

I also wanted monolids when I was a child. Although I’m totally white (I also wanted grandparents with Yiddish accents, and a fro). I grew up around a lot of Asian people (my schools were always at least 50% Hmong), and it makes me really

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 12:11 am ¶
Colleen wrote:

Ack! Sorry the cat stepped on the keyboard! It makes me really sad that Asian women have to put up with this stuff.

I have a (male) Korean friend who makes fun of himself with the whole “slanty eyes” thing a lot, and I’m sure it’s in self-defense. It makes me sad he’s had to go through that for something so small and stupid.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 12:14 am ¶
Vik wrote:

Firstly, I think Asians generally define Western as the direction, as in west of them as in Europe. The colonizing of one’s face can be associated with the colonizing of one’s nation which, we all know, Europe has done a lot of colonizing out there in big ol’ Asia, therefore arguments would be more suitable and relevant if this image of white Europe is taken to mind.

Let’s ask Oakley, you know the eyewear company, about their Asian and European fit glasses and how they define facial features associated with people who descend from these regions. Sure we all may share physical similarities but this is a plain emphasis on the common physical traits attributed to those who descend from these areas because how else would you deem these glasses “Asian Fit” or “European Fit?”

Moving on…

@ Reiter on comment 26

I believe that this light skin = higher social status and dark skin = low social status holds true. My family often watches Thai soap operas and the actors present in those melodramas are generally light-skinned, Eurasian, or mixed with East Asian. Physically ethnically apparent Thai people (usually darker and with distinctive facial features) generally serve as either the comic reliefs or the servants or villains.

In this observation there are existent ethnic hierarchies withinm not only the Asian race, but also within other races also. My Latino friends tell me of ethnic hierarchies that exist in that the Cubans think they’re better than the Puerto Ricans who think they’re better than the Dominicans, but all think they’re better than the Mexicans. For me it’s always been that the Chinese think they’re better than the Japanese who think they’re better than the Koreans who all think they’re better than the South Asians who ALL think they’re better than the Southeast Asians where the Thai and Vietnamese think they’re better than the Lao and Cambodians.

Maybe this is why there is no collective Asian-American organization at my school.

Why all the self-hatred? Why, with surgery, tell yourself that you’re fixing a problem? Why pinpoint what you are and how you look as a problem in the first place? How about we develop new standards of beauty? I don’t think it solves anything to physically alter yourself for a mere “standard.” Is one’s identity so problematic that these measures must be taken? From eyelid surgeries to nose surgeries to lightening creams…it’s all ridiculous. I’ll take my small nose and some sun over this crap any day.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 2:41 am ¶
ViK wrote:

The beauty industry is genius! From culture to culture, beauty is whatever you aren’t, and therefore you must fix it. Either you spend money tanning or bleaching, perming or relaxing, “rounding” your eyes or making them “Asian,” and there is hair dye, lipo, and colored contacts for all.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 3:52 am ¶
hyrax wrote:

I remember reading that the first nose jobs in the US were Irish immigrants trying to get rid of their cute snub noses – having breaks put in so they would look less ‘Irish’ (which at the time wasn’t considered ‘white’ the same way it is now).

Now that seems so crazy and ridiculous – I wonder what other categories will change with time, so that nothing really changes, just the dominant/’ideal’ target keeps on moving.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 4:14 am ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“Why hasn’t Nip/Tuck had an episode on the subject?”

Actually I remember the subject being addressed by a white supremacist character, of all people, who claimed to be conducting interviews with the surgeons for some kind of paper on it. Apparently, her issue with it was that, by “westernizing” non-whites through surgery, the surgeons were facilitating the dilution of the white race by easing their assimilation into white society and making non-whites more appealing to white suitors.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 4:14 am ¶
MelMel wrote:

@ Colleen: Glad I’m not the only one As of today, I love my eyes, and I still admire more “Ethnic” ones equally. Lucy Liu and Sandra Oh come to mind. Obviously altered ones are /pretty/, but they look like they came out of a factory line. It’s like the Asian version of fake tits, or straightened hair on Black women. I’ve heard a million times that hair for Black women is like body image for white women, so I suppose the eye issue is our flab.

And don’t get me started on the inter-Asian hate. That nonsense has got to go, today.

@DivergentDana: Yeah, I saw that one! I meant an episode that targeted the issue specifically. They DID have an eppy that had a white man getting monos so he could “pass” as Japanese to appease his mother-in-law, who was interned during the war. She didn’t buy it, but was charmed by his gesture. It was pretty wtf, but I could see a Japanese mother being pretty impressed by something like that. A JA wife, on the other hand? Not so much. What I WANT to see is an AA requesting a blepharoplasty (and ass implants, of course). I wonder how the show would deal with it.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 10:08 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

What if you’re 100% Asian and have double eyelids, as most southern Chinese and SE Asians do? We can’t always say that Asians who WANT double eyelids are doing so because they want to “look white,” do we?

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 10:28 am ¶
TierList E wrote:

@Cynthia

Well, I don’t know if it’s as direct as all that. I can’t really speak about Asians and the double eyelid thing, but I think in general minorities (women more likely than not) just want to look pretty and accepted by society. The fact that what is considered pretty and acceptable has been influenced by euro colonialism is more or less coincidental. If you flipped a switch to make more ethnic features more attractive/acceptable people will start scrabbling to take the folds out and appear more whatever the new beauty norm turned out to be.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 11:42 am ¶
queerhapa wrote:

I think Cynthia does have a point that this article totally glosses over. The epicanthic fold may be a racial signifier of “Asianness” but it is absolutely not one universally found in all Asians.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 2:40 pm ¶
diana wrote:

while it is easy to make correlations between western standards of beauty and cosmetic surgery and other methods of altering racially-defined features – we also have to remember that this topic is a lot more complex. to accuse asians and asian-americans of blindly wanting to look white is a huge disservice to the discussion we’re having.

western (and i know there’s been a huge conversation on this description- BUT ‘western’ is being used in a colonized western notion that is used commonly) images of beauty have infiltrated all methods of media in a number of eastern countries. a brand of beauty has been sold – here and abroad. class plays a huge role in this as well. (white vs dark argument).
it’s just important to not see asian women as ’sad’ because we presume they want to look ‘white’. the notion of beauty and women’s relationship to it (especially if you’re a woman of color) is complex and layered.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 3:24 pm ¶
Restructure! wrote:

Not all “Asians” are born with single eyelids! It is said that 70% of Koreans are born with single eyelids and 50% of non-Korean Asians are born with single eyelids. You can’t just take a look at a double-eyelidded Asian and then conclude that she had eyelid surgery.

As Cynthia said, most Southern Chinese and Southeast Asians are born with double eyelids!

One time, on the internet, I read a white person saying that a Korean person told her that she was born with double eyelids and that her blood relatives had double eyelids. Not believing her, the white person concluded that the Korean woman had double eyelid surgery done right after birth. (That’s racist, assuming that no Asians can be born with double eyelids, especially if 30% of Koreans are.)

An epicanthic fold is something different. Someone can have both double eyelids and an epicanthic fold. The woman in the photo of this blog post looks like she has both double eyelids and an epicanthic fold.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 6:19 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

@Maggie
Yes. The Japanese of the 19th-21th century have long thought of themselves as “better” than the rest of Asians. And what we seem to forget is that it was not because “white” was “better or more attractive”, lighter skin meant people didn’t have to work in the sun; they had lighter skins and were protected from hard labor. That’s what “lighter or whiter” meant. Now it has a whole new corrupted meaning attached to supposed “European” superiority. As soon as we stop straightening hair, bleaching skin, unslanting eyes, thining noses, all to immulate this supposed superiority, it will be better for all. Remember, the perceived attractiveness as been assimulated by people subjugated by only the last for centuries. The people that are thought to be culturally and racially more attractive and superior were never thought of as such. They had Nothing to offer until after they learned from the darker, Southern Europeans, (ie, Greeks, Turh), who as Herodetus said, “….stood on the shoulders of giants…”…the Africans and garnered all the information from Asia via Marco Polo, thus setting the world upside down…and we want to look like them? Why? It’s amazing what TV can do?

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 7:11 pm ¶
Gothic Guera wrote:

on the nose job, let me say this when hyrax said about the Irish nose jobs I smiled a little, my father’s family are know for the bump on their noses. While my mother’s family are known for their small and dainty noses(let me tell you this it is not a European trait) I laughed one time when I read this book which took place in Japan where the narrator was she said the “Europeans with big noses”. I find it odd a lot of Asian kids(mostly girls in the matter_ in my school are willing to mock the kids with “C-word” eyes. It’s a shame.

Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 8:21 pm ¶
lex wrote:

come to asia. the context is different.

a good post, although rather cliched to be honest.

i used to think asians were just “trying to look white,” too… until some of my asian american/native asian friends flipped the script on me.

clearly, the trend is extremely disturbing–particularly for asian americans like myself who have been conditioned our entire lives to define ourselves within a white/black binary. but that’s the very problem with binaries… they leave no room for a more nuanced interpretation of these sorts of phenemona.

to say that asians are simply “trying to look white” is dangerously simplistic. to be fair, this is an argument i advocated for a long time, as well. and, to a large extent, i believe it to be largely true. but it IS important to give due credit to the existing standards of beauty and systems of oppression that exist/have existed in asia. for instance, in korea, a country quite notorious for the practice, it’s easy to claim that all koreans are simply trying to “look white.” but this assumes that all koreans are simply agency-less drones blindly following whatever the west tells them to do. to paraphrase a scholar i like but whose name i can’t quite remember, it’s following the belief that the west invented everything, including the notion of evil.

koreans– as well as other asians in asia—have their own specific brands of oppressive beauty standards that are not necessary carbon copy-attempts to “be like the west.” i agree that there’s a definite kind of mimicry going on, but it would be myopic to assume that it’s a simple 1 to 1 cloning attempt. asia and native asians are far more complex than that.

something to think about.

Posted 24 Dec 2008 at 10:28 am ¶
JC wrote:

It’s not that simple – Asians wanted to look white. Perhaps it’s easy to think that way but it’s not. For example, high cheek bone is NOT a desirable trait in Asia but it’s one of the most basic marker of Western beauty. Same goes for thick lips. If Western beauty is the standard you would think Asian men in Asia are falling for white women all the time – and nothing could be farther from the truth. In fact there was a few attempt at all girl idol group with white members, and they all failed miserably. Why is that? Because the ideal female Beauty in Asia is NOT a white woman. It’s a combination of Western and Asian traits that’s commonly found in many Eurasians that’s considered the standard of beauty (think Miyazawa Rie). A large, OVAL eye with double eye lids, oval face with a tiny chin (not exactly white here), a straight but not prominent nose, flat cheeks, and average Asian lips. This in conjunction with thin body with C cup breast (larger is NOT better), and thigh as thin as the calf. Eye color and hair color preference may differ, but everyone in Asia still agree that straight, full jet-black hair falling to the waist is still the mark of high beauty. Tell me how many white women you know who match this description.
Recently in Japan and Korea there is a movement to define beauty away from the standard Eurasian model. The best-selling Tsubaki Shampoo from Shiseido started a highly-acclaimed series of commercial which celebrate the beauty of Japanese women – and not a single white woman was used in them like in the past. Tsubaki’s success even brought out imitators like Ascience from Kao which claimed the shampoo is designed for Asian hair only. The trend to worship Eurasians is slowly turning around.
However, to understand all these Asian beauty dynamics you must be a native Asian. Asian Americans and Non-Asian Americans posting in this forum mostly have a very superficial understanding of this concept.
Here’s some famous Tsubaki commercials to help bring some Holiday cheers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvRQ024ANeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thcQQDlaXAU
And an Asience CM featuring Jeon Ji Hyun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2SiSwhaug

Posted 25 Dec 2008 at 8:09 am ¶
Sarah wrote:

I too lived in Japan for one year and now I am in China. In Japan I was mostly ignored but reveled in the moments where someone seeing me from the back mistook me for Japanese because my natural hair resembles what so many young girls were altering theirs to look like. I’ve always though Asian women were infinitely more beautiful than white girls like me! I grew up wishing and wishing I’d wake up the next day and be Asian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, anything! I just didn’t want to be white anymore. White people invaded the majority of the world, told thousand year old civilized societies they were primitive and forced Christianity down their throats. I feel like my white skin is something to be ashamed of and whenever someone here in China or in Japan comments on my “beautiful” skin I feel sick.

In both countries the stores are full of “whitening” creams. I think it’s so terrible! These women are using such harsh chemicals on their skin for what? White is not more beautiful than black, brown, yellow and every shade in between!

I work with two Japanese ladies and several Chinese ladies now. They all marveled at my skin, eyelids and hair when I arrived here. They were shocked when I got my wavy hair straightened and complained that they wished their hair was as lovely as mine. I can’t understand it! They are all infinitely more beautiful than I am. The Japanese ladies like to wear coloured contact lens that just look bizarre. The Chinese ladies all get their hair dyed light brown and permed. They hide under umbrellas and shoulder length gloves in summer. They shriek in abject terror when they see how tanned the children get playing in the sun outside. I just don’t understand it!

I remember having a very, very uncomfortable moment in Japan when I was speaking to a new English teacher who was black. She asked me why in the insane summer heat and humidity all the women were wearing such long black gloves, long trousers and anything else they could find to cover their skin. I didn’t know what to say. What could I say? These women wanted their skin to be white? I do believe I read that in Asia whiter skin is a symbol of wealth and darker skin is a symbol of poverty (your skin is dark because you’re a farmer or something) but how could I say this to this beautiful, proud black woman? That the women we worked with prized white skin?

I would give anything to trade places with these Asian woman that think I’m so beautiful just because I’m white. I’ve always been envious of everyone that ISN’T white, at least you have a culture, an ethnicity to identify with. I’m Canadian, what the heck does that mean? My ancestors rode a boat to a new land, ripped off the natives and then killed them all off?? I have nothing to proud of in my background, least of all this white skin I hate so much. Every time someone here compliments my appearance I wish I could go back in time and keep China closed to foreigners, just keep all us whities out so that today they’d be proud to be Chinese and to have their beautiful eyes, skin and hair!

Posted 25 Dec 2008 at 9:24 am ¶
bdsista wrote:

I do think its internalized racism and can someone please explain the illustrations of little white girls and white characters in manga? We can go back to Pokemon cartoons. What the hell is up this this sh**? Why can’t Asian cartoons have Asians in them? As a librarian in a school, I can’t help but think how this must damage the psyche of those young minds! To never see yourself represented in cartoons and books? What a mindF**K that is to the children!

Posted 25 Dec 2008 at 8:49 pm ¶
lunanoire wrote:

I sometimes wonder when seeing women with foundation that is too pale or too pink for them if they are trying to look more like someone else, or if they had a difficult time finding a matching shade, or if they didn’t take into account the fact that not everyone is the same color year-round.

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 12:07 am ¶
Restructure! wrote:

@Sarah

I’ve always been envious of everyone that ISN’T white, at least you have a culture, an ethnicity to identify with. I’m Canadian, what the heck does that mean?

The conjunction of these two sentences sounds like you’re implying that Canadian = white. I’m Canadian too, and figuring what the heck that means. However, I’m also a person of colour, and I question your assumption that all non-white people have “culture” than all white people don’t have. Are you sure that the “culture” you are referring to isn’t actually racialization and othering?

You certainly have some strange racial views about Asians. You would rather be Asian than white? You think Asian women are infinitely more beautiful than white women? You wish you could wake up as an Asian? I think you have no idea what it is like to live in an Asian body and be exoticized by white people like yourself, who think that being of Asian appearance automatically one gives access to “foreign” culture, and that being Asian means you have a specific physical appearance.

I’m Asian, and my hair is naturally wavy/frizzy, so I have to use a flat iron to straighten it. According to your world view, my natural hair fails at being beautiful and fails at being Asian. I guess I can’t live up to your Asian ideal, and I have to use a flat iron to make my racial appearance more acceptable for you.

Guess what? “Positive” racial stereotypes are still damaging and racist. If you’re such an Asiaphile, stay in Asia and out of my country (Canada).

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 12:13 am ¶
Bagelsan wrote:

bdsista: It’s maybe a little off-topic, but for the manga thing I generally assume that *all* the characters are Asian (usually Japanese) unless it states otherwise, and that the racial markers Westerners are used to seeing are just not the ones that the Japanese artist focuses on. People in manga aren’t always given large pointy noses or small round eyes or big feet, for example, which might clearly mark them as stereotypically “white” :p (to generalize terribly).

Part of the perception of “white” is just having everything in black and white ink, I think; it’s very hard to make a sort of tan skin color. As for the large almost square eye shape, I have no idea. :p I believe part of it is that the eye is drawn to fill the space where “eye” is perceived in the human brain–people sort of mentally “see” eyes as filling everything from the top of the cheek to the eyebrow, so drawing it smaller is (if more accurate) kind of jarring to look at in cartoon form. That’s what I’ve seen in animation art books, at least, for anime styles and more Disney-esque styles.

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 4:49 am ¶
lechatnoir wrote:

at JC

I do not know whether you were trying to prove us that the mixed european look is the norm.But Miyazawa Rie is herself half white, her father is Dutch and those in those shisheido commercials 2 girls are also half white , they all have white fathers , I am pretty sure you knew this when you cherry picked those attractive ads.

The Japanese ad industry. They might not want to use a white woman for a classic shisheido add but they will use a biracial woman to promote the same product.
This is a common routine. As someone who worked in the visual fx industry I know this very well.

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 8:14 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

What the hell is up this this sh**? Why can’t Asian cartoons have Asians in them?

Why don’t you think Asian cartoons don’t have Asians in them?

One other point:

I think we need to be careful in thinking this is a specifically Asian (or even POC) pathology. It is not. Keep in mind that so-called “white, western” women are also socially compelled to perform similar absurd reconstructions of face and body. The so-called “ideal” to which individuals strive here is not a “white” appearance but a fantasy that is collectively (albeit unevenly) constructed through a masculine gaze. What the experience of POC illustrates and renders visible however is how profoundly racialized this fantasy is. It is still racialized when white women act out the same behaviors, only that it is rendered invisible through the same mechanisms that whiteness itself is rendered invisible.

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 8:30 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

Restructure:

> If you’re such an Asiaphile, stay in Asia and out of my country (Canada).

Hey don’t dump the dregs on us Asian-born Asians. We got our own shit to deal with here.

( I kid kid — no disagreements with your response really)

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 8:33 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

@ Sarah:

Light skin in Asia has been a “standard” of beauty for thousands of years. Look at classical Chinese or Japanese art, created long before Europeans set foot there…the women are all portrayed as having very, very fair skin. Fair skin meant that you were wealthy and didn’t have to work outdoors. This was a standard in Europe and North America until the 20th century, when working in factories and offices became the standard. At that time, the tan became a status symbol because it meant that you could AFFORD (and have the time) to travel.

As for white Canadians not having a “culture”: Have you heard of the Highland Games? Oktoberfest in Kitchner? The (Hungarian) Helicon Ball? All of these events celebrate European-based cultures, no?

A good friend of mine recently married a man of Scottish descent. I don’t know how long his family has been in Canada (I’m pretty sure it’s more than three generations), but the wedding was a strong mix of both Scottish and Chinese culture. Many of the men (and some women, too) on his side wore their tartan. In fact, there were more people wearing tartan than there were people in wearing Chinese clothing (mostly middle aged and senior women). So who’s saying that white people don’t have a “culture”?

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 11:44 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

> They might not want to use a white woman for a classic shisheido add but they will use a biracial woman to promote the same product.

This is certainly true to a point, but oddly, in the ads in question, they are not identified as so (and neither are the ethnic Okinawans/Ryukyuans either — Nakama Yukie in this case), which seems to suggest (even if only unconsciously) a sense of the fluidity of who gets classed as a “Japanese beauty.”

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 2:28 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“Because the ideal female Beauty in Asia is NOT a white woman. It’s a combination of Western and Asian traits that’s commonly found in many Eurasians that’s considered the standard of beauty (think Miyazawa Rie).”

This is something that I’ve seen before in many, many other non-white groups, and isn’t often addressed, for some reason — the widespread perception that (some) westernized characteristics on members of one’s own racial group make for a more attractive person doesn’t mean “the whiter-looking the better”, necessarily. Often times, it’s believed that the mixture of stereotypically ethnic characteristics and “whiter” characteristics is more attractive than a purely white appearance, as well.

Posted 26 Dec 2008 at 7:58 pm ¶
Mel wrote:

As a teenage white girl, I have always thought that Asian and Latina women were much more beautiful than the stickthin, blonde, blue-eyed Caucasians who are held up in the US as the beauty ideal.

Posted 27 Dec 2008 at 1:30 am ¶
Laurel wrote:

I don’t think it’s always about wanting to look white.
When I was younger, I used to think that eyelid surgery was for women who wanted to look more Caucasian–but now I realize that it’s just to make your eyes look bigger and more open, something that’s desirable for a lot of people.
Also, at least for most of the Asians in my area (Filipinos, Hmong and Lao refugees, my parents and relatives…), pale/er skin is like a status symbol–it shows that you’re not doing menial labor, like field-work, or construction work.

Posted 27 Dec 2008 at 7:33 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:

Mel,

The “ideal” Asian beauty, at least the “ideal” modern Asian beauty as portrayed in Hong Kong and some other major Asian markets, are pretty much Asian Olsen Twins. When I was in Hong Kong in 2005, the typical teenage “mallrat” looked like she could use a glass or two of full-fat bubble tea. And the young Asian women on this side of the Pacific aren’t that different.

Posted 27 Dec 2008 at 11:03 pm ¶
Restructure! wrote:

@Mel:

How can “Asian women” and “Latina women” be more beautiful than stickthin, blonde, blue-eyed Caucasians? Asian women don’t look all the same and are very diverse in terms of appearance. The same applies to Latina women. Your preference makes sense only if you assume that Asians and Latinas all look a certain way (i.e., stereotypical).

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 2:44 am ¶
Lxy wrote:

“That’s colonialism all over your face!”

You could also add “that’s White supremacy all over your face,” as White racial dominance has been a fundamental feature of Western colonialism … and neo-Colonialism today.

Maybe, this is what the idea of a “post-racial society” really means in a so-called globalized world.

Race supposedly no longer exists as an important social, cultural, and political category … because everybody has been assimilated into a de facto Whiteness!

You could call it Universal Whiteness.

It’s the Aryan dream come true–only with a liberal pluralist mask.

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 5:45 am ¶
Aris wrote:

But why does it always have to be white features to upgrade the beauty of People of Color?? Why aren’t Blasians celebrated as much, or Blatinos (Black-Latino), or Hispanic-asians, or Afro-Arabs, or any other mixtures that don’t involve whiteness?

Black, or Asian, or Hispanic people are okay with ethnic features, but add some white features and ZOMG they become the most beautiful races in the world! No one sees this as a problem?

I’m sorry, and apparently I’m in the minority here, but I still think it’s wrong and I’m beginning to think that there will be no hope for people of color to free themselves of this mess as long as people continue to deny that this is a problem. Just my opinion.

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 12:51 pm ¶
Aris wrote:

lechatnoir said: “I do not know whether you were trying to prove us that the mixed european look is the norm.”

I’m not sure but speaking generally this is really common in self-hate threads of any forum as well….. They always transform into a “Well we don’t all look like that anyway, most of us REALLY look like THIS *inserts pictures of half-white-looking women*”…..

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 1:07 pm ¶
browne wrote:

“Race supposedly no longer exists as an important social, cultural, and political category … because everybody has been assimilated into a de facto Whiteness!

You could call it Universal Whiteness.

It’s the Aryan dream come true–only with a liberal pluralist mask.” Lxy

That was the most awesome statement of December.

Browne

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 2:03 pm ¶
Ashley wrote:

Aris, I think many people are in agreement with you. I certainly am. It’s really problematic that People of Color are considered more beautiful if they are part White. Whenever I hear someone talk about how “beautiful” mixed people are, I bristle. Because I know the implication is that mixed people are more attractive than people with 2 African-American parents or 2 Korean-American parents or 2 Mexican-American parents. The implication is never that mixed people are more beautiful than people with 2 White parents.

As far as celebrating the beauty of multiracial people who aren’t part-White, I’ve found that the conversation often devolves into “She’s pretty. She doesn’t even look Black” (at least when it comes to Amerie and Cassie). Of course, those statements can’t be made about about Hispanic-Asians or other mulitiracial people. But, I think the racial hierarchy (when applied to beauty) is still present and rigid.

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 4:29 pm ¶
Paz wrote:

Restructure: I know that you mean well, but Sarah and Mel are giving responses that are honest, even though they may not be PC.

Is there ever such a thing of wanting to alter your features just for the look, or is everyone colonized and (sub)consciously doing it to aspire to a Western/white/Northern European/other ideal?

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 5:52 pm ¶
F. wrote:

Laurel at #64 wrote: ” now I realize that it’s just to make your eyes look bigger and more open, something that’s desirable for a lot of people.”

Why? Is it because “bigger” eyes are more attractive than smaller ones? Are “open” eyes better than “less open” (slittier?) eyes?

I imagine way, way before we had plastic surgery and before Western media images permeated the world’s cultures, “small” and “less open” eyes were just fine for a lot of Asians over the past thousands of years– because, hello, a lot of Asians do have smaller, “less open” eye shapes. It’s only a bad thing to note this if you happen to associate smaller eyes with “bad” or “ugly.”

I have to ask why it’s necessary for so many to change their eye shapes to be “bigger” when eye shape is perhaps the most obvious distinctive physical feature of Asian people to begin with, and a huge amount of Asians have monolid, “slanted” eyes. Aren’t they JUST as beautiful as Asians with double-eyelids, or “rounder” eyes? Why aren’t double-lidded Asians getting surgery to become mono-lidded, why do “rounder” eyes get preference?

Did Asians centuries ago have the same sort of “eye size/shape issues” they do now?

I doubt “less open” and “less big” eye shapes were considered problematic and needful of “fixing” until recently. And by recently, I’m pointing the finger at historical European colonialist influences and American cultural colonialism through Hollywood, fashion, TV, etc.

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 8:28 pm ¶
theboxman wrote:

Quote: when eye shape is perhaps the most obvious distinctive physical feature of Asian people to begin with, and a huge amount of Asians have monolid, “slanted” eyes.

Which Asians? And by whose standard is eye shape considered the most obvious distinctive feature of Asian people? I can’t speak for anyone else, but I really couldn’t tell you what the eye shape of any of the range of Asian people I know without looking at photographs, which tells me it’s not really something I particularly notice offhand.

Also, while the critique of colonialism is essential, and its impact on seemingly banal things of course demand examination, I still can’t help but wonder if this is being overstated. After all, outside of celebrities, plastic surgery among Asian men and women doesn’t really strike me as all that prevalent. But then, how is that any different from white Hollywood celebrities and the average white person?

This is not to say that facets of internalized colonialism don’t get inscribed on how the human (and particularly the female) body is idealized — they most certainly do. Just that the critique could very well be misaimed, too narrow without accounting for the totality and compexity of the context. These are contested terrains and discourses wherein colonialism, nationalism, and patriarchy all play out in both contradictory and complict ways.

Another point. I’m curious how the discussion in the comments even got to Japan and Japanese women to begin with, when the original post seems to examine issues specific to the context of Asian-American women? The conflation is odd, as is the displacement (i.e., it’s those *other* Asians out there that are the problem).

Then there’s the gendered focus. Why does this critique (and here, I don’t mean this specific post but the general discursive space) rarely ever raise the issue of how the fantasy of masculinity is itself impacted by colonial histories and ongoing effects? Given that gender positions are always already relational, that is, that the production of fantasy women to which Asian women might ascribe does not produce meaning outside of how it is constituted against a fantasy man, isn’t this a necessary component of the critique that is being elided here?

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 10:14 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“Why aren’t Blasians celebrated as much, or Blatinos (Black-Latino), or Hispanic-asians, or Afro-Arabs, or any other mixtures that don’t involve whiteness?”

The part-black mixes are celebrated… by blacks, and among other races in comparison to regular old blacks, as Ashley mentioned. We’re at the very bottom of the hierarchy, so there’s a belief that any non-black admixture “upgrades” our appearance. As far as other groups, it depends on the mixture, and what it’s seen to “contribute.” The value of the physical contribution, of course, is filtered towards a similarly annoying lens. For instance, N. Indians have more Middle Eastern heritage, and it’s seen as a reason that they’re fairer-skinned and taller, on average, than South Indians. As a result, Bollywood’s primarily the millieu of “northies”. Even in cases where there’s no white heritage directly responsible, having a fairer, sharper-featured appearance is still widely seen as a positive result of mixing with races where said appearance is more common — up until a certain arbitrary cut-off point where the person is seen as just foreign-looking.

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 11:06 pm ¶
Sarah wrote:

@ Restructure: I don’t know really what I can say to you. I think I hit a nerve and rereading what I wrote I can see how and why. I wrote way too fast, didn’t edit myself and definitely mispoke so I apologize for that. In short, my issue isn’t that you aren’t “Asian enough” or anything of that sort. It’s my interaction with my friends and coworkers overseas who think I’m beautiful purely because I’m white and tell me they want my skin colour or hair colour; meanwhile I’d gladly trade places with them because I prefer their physical appearance. I did generalize too much in my comment and I apologize.

@ Cynthia – “As for white Canadians not having a “culture”: Have you heard of the Highland Games? Oktoberfest in Kitchner? The (Hungarian) Helicon Ball? All of these events celebrate European-based cultures, no?”

Um, Highland games come from Scotland, they’re Scottish. Oktoberfest I’m fairly certain is German and Hungarian is, um, Hungarian?? Which of these is Canadian exactly? I’m CANADIAN, not Scottish, not Hungarian, German or anything else. Just Canadian. My parents are Canadian, their parents are Canadian, their parents are maybe English?? I don’t know, when I ask they say “we’re Canadian!” I’m not something-Canadian or Canadian-something. I’m Canadian. Just a dumb, white, boring Canadian. I ask my friends, I ask my family what that means and all I get is a shrug and “We’re not American??”

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 4:22 am ¶
Bagelsan wrote:

Whenever I hear someone talk about how “beautiful” mixed people are, I bristle. Because I know the implication is that mixed people are more attractive than people with 2 African-American parents or 2 Korean-American parents or 2 Mexican-American parents. The implication is never that mixed people are more beautiful than people with 2 White parents.

I have certainly heard this said in reference to people with two PoC parents, but I don’t disagree that preferring White + whathaveyou may be more typical. (An example off the top of my head is a guy whose parents were Mexican and Japanese–a white girl was complaining that she expected him to be good-looking entirely based purely on the fact that he was mixed, disregarding the actual ethnicities involved entirely, but he was apparently disappointingly somewhat below average. :p)

Mostly what I’ve heard is that mixed anything is prettier than unmixed anything, but that is purely anecdotal. I’ve heard several white people talk about how marrying non-white will result in cuter kids (though I don’t know how likely it is that they actually would do so *themselves* yanno… 9.9) And, again, I have a biased sample, so this in no way is meant to disprove your point.

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 5:35 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

@Divergent Dana: “The part-black mixes are celebrated… by blacks, and among other races in comparison to regular old blacks, as Ashley mentioned. We’re at the very bottom of the hierarchy, so there’s a belief that any non-black admixture “upgrades” our appearance. ” Sad but true.

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 9:26 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

Sarah: Maybe you can do some research into the history of your family? You’re probably a mix of a bunch of European ethnicities, just like many white Canadians (some of my friends call themselves “Euro-mutts”.) You can start by tracing your last name. In any case, ethnic Scots, Hungarians and Germans were, last I checked, white. And the events I noted in my post occur in Canada. The Helicon Ball is a Toronto fundraiser which occurs annually.

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 11:57 am ¶
Restructure! wrote:

@Sarah:

I don’t know really what I can say to you. I think I hit a nerve and rereading what I wrote I can see how and why. I wrote way too fast, didn’t edit myself and definitely mispoke so I apologize for that. In short, my issue isn’t that you aren’t “Asian enough” or anything of that sort. It’s my interaction with my friends and coworkers overseas who think I’m beautiful purely because I’m white and tell me they want my skin colour or hair colour; meanwhile I’d gladly trade places with them because I prefer their physical appearance. I did generalize too much in my comment and I apologize.

I think I’ve interacted with way too many Asiaphilic white women who wish they were Asian. They say things like, “Asian women are skinny,” and “Asian women have such black, shiny, straight hair,” which are not only stereotypical features, but many features Asian women have to strive for, through dieting, hair straightening, etc. When those white women think that Asian women are more beautiful, they probably don’t mean the fat ones, or the ones with natural afros. They are talking about a stereotype and assuming that all Asians look the same.

I’m just tired of this “Asian women are more beautiful than white women” cliche from white women, or “Asian women are hot” cliche from white men. Some of them seem to think that all Asian women look like Asian celebrities.

I’ve even read things like, “Why do Asian women have such good skin?” which seems to have no basis in reality, unless you’re talking about celebrities.

I just don’t find your contribution unique or insightful. It’s rather cliche, it makes no sense, and I find it racist. It’s like a white woman saying, “Black women are more beautiful. I wish I was black, because then I would have a fat booty and big lips.”

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 1:25 pm ¶
Loredana wrote:

While there are many flaws in Sarah’s original message, I won’t go into it, but I will say that Sarah needs to research both European history and Asian/African/Middle Eastern history before she puts down Europeans and raises PoC on a pedestal.

Sarah, while you are right in saying that Western Europeans conquered many parts of the world, you should also know that Africans, Asians and Middle Easterners conquered Europe.

For example, the Mongolians in Hungary, North Africans in Spain and Italy and Persians and the Ottomans (Turks) in Eastern Europe. Therefore, you are completely wrong in saying that only Europeans conquered, Europeans were also conquered by PoC.

As well, I think that you should really examine what your real issues are and why you hate yourself so much. I’m first-generation Romanian-Canadian, and I am extremely proud of my Romanian culture and traditions.

Nevertheless, I also know about English, French, Italian, Spanish and other European cultures/traditions, and I’m also proud of them.

And all those cultures individually or together make one Canadian. If you’re having difficulties finding something that’s *just* Canadian, it’s because Canada is an amalgamation of cultures and traditions.

Consequently, I agree with Cynthia, you should research your family tree to discover what mix you are. From there, you can explore your ancestry and find just who you are.

However, don’t go hating Europeans and European culture without knowing anything about it. And don’t put Asian/African/Middle Eastern culture on a pedestal without knowing anything about it.

Inform yourself before making such harsh conclusions.

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 3:13 pm ¶
Loredana wrote:

And as well, it’s not European beauty that’s prevalent in the West and somewhat in other parts of the world. It’s the blue eyes, blond hair characteristics that are popular and that everyone wants to emulate, including other Europeans.

Not all Europeans have blue eyes and blond hair. Many Europeans have green, brown, hazel and black eyes, and various shades of hair color. However, even though they have white skin, this is not the beauty ideal that you guys are talking about.

There are also Europeans that want to change their characteristics and have blue eyes and blond hair. As well, you don’t see very fair skinned models, the majority of White models have tan skin and a minority of them have blue eyes.

I’m very fair-skinned and I can’t count the number of times people, both inside and outside my family, were curious and made fun of my extremely fair skin–including PoC. I’ve been called pale, cheese, ghost and even a wall (?!?!?).

However, I’ve learned to take it all in stride and it doesn’t make me run to the closest tanning salon–there’s nothing wrong with being pale (as there’s nothing wrong with being dark) and everyone knows how damaging the sun and tanning is.

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 3:23 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“It’s the blue eyes, blond hair characteristics that are popular and that everyone wants to emulate, including other Europeans.”

Not completely true. While the stereotypically Nordic look is very popular amongst Americans, Europeans, and some Latin American countries, in Asia, Africa, the Middle East and the Caribbean, the ideal seems to be primarily about fairness and facial features…. there actually aren’t that many East Asian, Desi or black women that strive to look like the model pictured above — possibly because it looks so artificial and genetically improbable… but it could also be because of differing cultural standards — they may just not be particularly enamored of those aspects of European appearance in particular.

Posted 29 Dec 2008 at 9:32 pm ¶
Lxy wrote:

While there are many flaws in Sarah’s original message, I won’t go into it, but I will say that Sarah needs to research both European history and Asian/African/Middle Eastern history before she puts down Europeans and raises PoC on a pedestal.

Sarah, while you are right in saying that Western Europeans conquered many parts of the world, you should also know that Africans, Asians and Middle Easterners conquered Europe.

For example, the Mongolians in Hungary, North Africans in Spain and Italy and Persians and the Ottomans (Turks) in Eastern Europe. Therefore, you are completely wrong in saying that only Europeans conquered, Europeans were also conquered by PoC.

As well, I think that you should really examine what your real issues are and why you hate yourself so much. I’m first-generation Romanian-Canadian, and I am extremely proud of my Romanian culture and traditions.

Nevertheless, I also know about English, French, Italian, Spanish and other European cultures/traditions, and I’m also proud of them.

And all those cultures individually or together make one Canadian. If you’re having difficulties finding something that’s *just* Canadian, it’s because Canada is an amalgamation of cultures and traditions.

I always hear this sort of argument from many “proud” European nationalists and Euro imperialists.

They attempt to minimize the reality of European (neo) colonialism by helpfully pointing out that other cultures ‘have done bad things too.’

This tactic glosses over the fact that Western colonial conquest far surpassed anything prior to it (or since then), and that it’s continuing reality destructively impacts socio-political life today–and not just in terms of White supremacist beauty standards.

See the Western-led wars of aggressions against Iraq and Afghanistan, for example, where over 1 million people have been murdered by the “democratic” West.

Indeed, the European conquest of the “New World” and consequent genocide of Aztec, Mayan, and other Indigineous peoples has been described as a Holocaust–but one which is not even admitted as such and in fact is celebrated through holidays like Columbus Day.

As a result of this conquest, Europeans stole and now occupy the Western hemisphere.

And like the USA, Canada is a product of this great crime–a European colonial settler state with the legitimizing veneer of liberal democracy.

That’s nothing to be proud of.

Posted 30 Dec 2008 at 8:55 am ¶
Rchoudh wrote:

Well said Lxy!

Posted 30 Dec 2008 at 12:04 pm ¶
Restructure! wrote:

@Sarah:

Also,

I’m not something-Canadian or Canadian-something.

You’re White Canadian, not generic Canadian, or neutral Canadian, or raceless Canadian.

I’m Canadian.

Me too.

Just a dumb, white, boring Canadian.

You mean you are boring versus exotic? Do you think non-white Canadians are exotic?

I ask my friends, I ask my family what that means and all I get is a shrug and “We’re not American??”

Even as a non-white Canadian, I think about Canadian identity a lot and realize that a lot of Canadian identity means “not American”. This isn’t something pathetic, because any kind of identity is about categorization/dividing up what is from what isn’t. American identity is about “not Europe”, “not atheist commies”, and “not the third world”. The United Kingdom has some “not America” and “not France”. (In any case, I think having a fixed identity is limiting, not empowering.)

Anyway, being worried at one point that “Canadian” means “not American” is not something that is unique to White Canadians. It’s like you don’t see me as really Canadian, so you don’t think that I also struggle with Canadian identity and how Canadians are deemed inferior by Americans, how American corporations keep buying out Canadian companies, how many successful Canadians are considered American (and so stereotypes of Canadians live on), etc. One stereotype I hate that Americans have of Canadians is that all Canadians are white; you seem to be influenced by this stereotype as well.

I’m “Chinese Canadian” as well as “Canadian”, but just because I’m “Chinese Canadian”, it doesn’t mean that BAM, I have no identity issues. I’ve only started identifying as “Chinese Canadian” in my twenties. Before, I thought that I wasn’t, because I didn’t fit some cultural or personality requirements, and because Chinese people treat me like a non-Chinese person. I still have to figure out what being Chinese means. It’s not like being Chinese gives me automagic access to the knowledge of all Chinese people and I don’t have to figure out my ethnic identity by myself.

The idea that people of colour don’t have racial identity issues is absurd. Our racial identities are influenced by racism, stereotyping, reactions against stereotyping, reactions against racism, being considered inferior to whites, reacting against being considered inferior to whites, etc. On top of that, contrary to most white people’s assumptions, we don’t automagically have a supporting community to fall back on.

White privilege makes you oblivious to the fact that Canadians of colour also have to ask what their national and racial identities mean. It’s not like this problem is solved for us, even if many white people see visible minorities as parts of a whole (or as instances of a racial concept) versus as individuals. (That is, even if it’s easy for a white person to categorize a person of colour, the person of colour probably struggles with that category she was assigned to by a white person. It isn’t cut-and-dry like that for a person of colour, even though it probably seems like it is to most white people.)

Posted 30 Dec 2008 at 12:47 pm ¶
John Jihoon Chang wrote:

@theboxman:

“After all, outside of celebrities, plastic surgery among Asian men and women doesn’t really strike me as all that prevalent.”

At least 25% of my relatives in South Corea have had plastic surgery. The majority of the rest have considered it, and women tend to be more interested in the more drastic kind. The only major factor preventing most of them from getting it is cost.

I’d say that the subject of getting plastic surgery or having recently had plastic surgery is fairly commonplace among the women that I spent time with in Seoul. Eyelid surgery seems to be the most popular procedure, followed by chin shaving and calf muscle cutting. It’s a phenomenon, at least in South Corea, that is definitely not limited to celebrities and the social pressure to conform to beauty standards, especially for women, but also for men, is extremely high.

I have a high degree of contact with my friends and relatives in South Corea and have spent a considerable amount of time in South Corea (Seoul, Gwangju and Busan) as well as being a regular consumer of Corean media (literature, entertainment and art, as well as news and documentaries). It is certainly the case that plastic surgery is prevalent and more-or-less generally accepted in mainstream Corean society.

I cannot comment on other Asian cultures.

Posted 30 Dec 2008 at 7:38 pm ¶
theboxman wrote:

Quote: At least 25% of my relatives in South Corea have had plastic surgery.

In contrast, none of the East Asian people (mostly Japanese, but also a few Koreans and Chinese) I regularly interact with have had, or are interested in doing so. But then, I tend to associate with academics and graduate students for the most part.

I’m not too familiar with the Korean context, so you may very well be right on its prevalence there. That said, without any kind of information on how representative your relatives are as far as social class position, urban/rural divides, etc., it’s ultimately difficult to extend this to the population at large.

Posted 30 Dec 2008 at 10:53 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“calf muscle cutting”

May I ask what the desired result of this procedure is?

Posted 31 Dec 2008 at 9:56 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:

^^^
To get rid of cankles?

As for other East Asian cultures: I don’t know how prevelant it is in Hong Kong either, but I’d think that it is less so than Korea. Most people I know get procedures done because they feel they’re getting older (botox and the like). Most people my age (late 20s) haven’t had any cosmetic surgery at all.

Posted 31 Dec 2008 at 10:38 am ¶
sylvie wrote:

I take issue with the comments of “I’ve always thought Asian women were so naturally beautiful” as if the comments from white North Americans are to somehow validate Asian/American beauty and invalidate the desire to get plastic surgery. It’s like the dominant group initially deems you unattractive and can be the ones to reverse that label later.

That said, the colonialist influence on beauty ideals amongst Asian/Americans is prominent but like Lex (#50) says, it leaves little room for the complexities involved with any culture’s aesthetic politics. It is not simply that Asians either want to look Asian or look white; there is an entire spectrum of thought and emotion behind people’s decisions to alter or not alter their appearance.

Posted 31 Dec 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶
John Jihoon Chang wrote:

@theboxman:

“That said, without any kind of information on how representative your relatives are as far as social class position, urban/rural divides, etc., it’s ultimately difficult to extend this to the population at large.”

I know that my commentary is anecdotal, but I can provide more information about the particular demographics that I interface with in South Corea. Note: this has no bearing on Corean diaspora.

My large extended family ranges from the rural farming communities of southern Jeolla province and around the Daechun area to the upper class in urban Seoul. There definitely is a correlation in terms of wealth and the actual numbers of procedures done. However, spending time with my cousins and nieces and their friends in rural Gohung and Daechun, plastic surgery is still a common topic and while few of them can afford plastic surgery, they do tend to comment about what kind of plastic surgery they get. I can’t get my hands on the data of prevalence of the product, but several of the young women, unable to get surgery purchase these little clips that you put in your eyelids to simulate the eye-fold.

The relatives and friends that have had plastic surgery, mostly the eye-fold surgery, are primarily Seoul dwellers, from young urban professionals (who by their living conditions, I would classify as lower-middle class, to the upper class). Men that have had surgery primarily seem to have mole removal and are also urban dwellers.

Of course, a look at the overall population of South Corea, it’s clear that almost half of the country lives in Seoul and the country has a problem in that most of the young people living in rural areas are migrating towards the cities (leaving few workers to tend the agriculture industry in the county).

But, I again have to note that there doesn’t appear to be any stigma attached with plastic surgery. I’ve met several young Corean women casually who don’t hide the fact that they’ve had eyelid surgery, typically given as a gift from the parents to the woman as a birthday present.

I will also note that I’ve met very few Corean American women who have had plastic (eyelid) surgery, barring those that have immigrated to the US later in life (high school and after). I can attest, like you, none of my Asian friends in academia have had plastic surgery, at least none that speak of it.

Posted 31 Dec 2008 at 7:12 pm ¶
John Jihoon Chang wrote:

@DivergentDana

As far as I can tell, Corean women that consider this procedure complain about having “daikon-legs”, in that their lower legs (calves) are straight and tapered, rather than being larger at the top and skinnier at the bottom. (Creating a concave curve.)

I have no idea why anyone considers this unattractive, but the standard of beauty seems to be having defined calves that have that curve.

Two other common ideas that I’ve heard from my female Corean family members and friends is the “S-line” and the “V-line”. Apparently the S-line refers to having noticeable breasts and bottoms (the “S” apparently approximating the two). The V-line refers to having a sharp, pointed chin.

That noted, all of my immediate family actually have naturally occurring eyefolds, although my folds have smoothed out a little leading to my relatives telling me that I should get some plastic surgery to better define them.

Posted 31 Dec 2008 at 7:29 pm ¶
nm wrote:

> “That’s colonialism all over your face!”

How colonial — I mean, the remark.

As a Japanese female who has lived in different parts of the world I see the featured photograph as typically Asian-American style instead of the assumed “wanna-be Caucasian” style. The eye shadows are chosen and applied to enhance the slant in order to fit American standards of Asian eyes (because, hey, all Asian eyes are supposed to slant up, right?) I had to unlearn that makeup habit upon return from the US because it looked so ridiculous in Japan. The same combination of hair dye and colored-contact lenses in Japan would be done to a different effect. My hair stylist adjusts cuts, angles and colors according to the places I visit. Then I would receive haircuts where I visit; on the return flight the flight attendants would never speak to me in Japanese. I suppose you could read colonialism into some of the above but how much?

I echo Sylvie (#91) about the complexities in aesthetic politics. People change their hair color or alter their facial features for so many different reasons. Reducing all these nuanced endeavors into some kind of response to colonialism is simply a reiteration of the same gaze.

Posted 01 Jan 2009 at 9:13 am ¶
Laurel wrote:

#73 F:
There’s a wide variety of “eye shapes” for Asians–and we don’t all have “mono-lid”s.

I think that people feel that larger eyes are cuter or more expressive. It could also be linked to the popularity of Japanese comics (the eyes can be pretty huge sometimes…). So I still don’t think that the main reason larger eyes are favored is because of wanting to look more Caucasian…

Posted 01 Jan 2009 at 8:29 pm ¶
anth wrote:

let’s not give the colonizer this much credit. asian beauty practices are more than whitefaced ‘mimickry’ but speak to entangled & oppressive ideas of gender/class/sex that are out there as well. i’d say in the case of korean women and ’sangkappul,’ this hotly contested crease expresses the continuing desire to be cosmopolitan within a highly consumerized & competitive system of values in s. korea… all of which has to be understood both in terms of the rapid & repressive industrialization that korea underwent post-korean war as well as the period of japanese colonialism that preceded it. for korean women (or perhaps, korean women who live in seoul), seeing double is an exchange for ‘becoming’ more modern…

Posted 02 Jan 2009 at 3:04 am ¶
theboxman wrote:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_pla_sur_pro-health-plastic-surgery-procedures

2002 statistics for cosmetic surgery per capita. Unfortunately, I haven’t found anything more recent, but it is telling that Japan at #18, falls right in between Canada and the United States, at #17 and #19 respectively, and South Korea further down at #25.

Where rates seem to be significantly higher though are Hong Kong at #6 at twice the per capita rate of Japan, and Taiwan at #13.

Posted 02 Jan 2009 at 9:48 am ¶
John Jihoon Chang wrote:

Here are some additional links about the prevalence of plastic surgery in Asia (and Corea in particular):

Time: http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020805/story.html
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020805/plastics.html

NYTimes: http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/02/asia/plastic.php
(Cites stat that 30% of Corean women have had plastics.)

SFChronicle: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2006/04/15/international/i142953D09.DTL
(Noting the increase in male plastic surgeries. This article actually dates to the year that my father and his drinking buddies got plastics done.)

Choson Ilbo (major Corean newspaper): http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200702/200702220030.html
(Cites that over half of the young woman demo have had plastic surgery.)

Posted 02 Jan 2009 at 5:50 pm ¶
Valerie wrote:

It doesn’t really matter where you are from, you will always want to look like somebody else, even if it’s only a little bit envy. I think the whole “being accepted” thing is a bit ridiculous. I mean, I am white, I have a friend who is Filipino, I have a friend who if from Pakistan. Neither of them get teased, or bullied. I think it is the people you mix with, not the colour you mix with. That is the whole point. You can’t implyingly accuse all white people not accepting people of colour, or oriental/asian people.

Posted 19 Jan 2009 at 6:03 pm ¶
chaoticdiva wrote:

I think this post makes for an interesting topic.

Growing up among different ethnicities (my mom is Cherokee, French and Irish, and my dad is Afro-Cuban), I was always envious of my mother’s baby fine curly hair. I had the thick, coarse, curly hair, and at one point, I was getting it relaxed because I thought it was more beautiful that way.

In every culture, there is the desire to look more exotic, to look more like what we already don’t look like. Many Caucasians that I come across at my job (I work at the mall in the beauty department), often ask about bronzers and lip plumpers, often noting how pretty they think my brown skin tone is or how I wouldn’t need lip plumper because my lips are full. Many of my black friends go to using synthetic hair and color contacts to make themselves appear less black. Latinos can go either way: depending on the crowds that they want to be around (black- they go for more “urban” looks, white- they go for more caucasian looks; my area isn’t as diverse as other areas, so the latino population is small). But I’ve also noted that Asians (that I know) tend to be the same way (as Latinos).

Its all a matter of who or what that person was brought up thinking was beautiful. When I got to college, I felt that West Indians and South Americans were more beautiful than anybody else. So I transitioned into loving my naturally curly hair, and my caramel skin.

Posted 24 Jan 2009 at 4:05 pm ¶
Nick wrote:

Way out of my depth here, but it would be good if people stopped assuming that all whites expect/desire others to look like them.

If some POC feel the need to alter themselves to fit a certain “desirable” look which happens to be caucasian, then that is to be deplored.

But please, it’s not because I (or anyone I know) is expecting/demanding this.

Don’t conflate all white people with a white society.

Posted 27 Jan 2009 at 4:22 pm ¶
j wrote:

I don’t know…I don’t think I can exactly agree with your professor.

First of all, I’m Chinese american and ethnically 100% chinese. I’m born with eyelid fold and a high nose bridge. In fact, pretty much everyone on my mom’s side of the family has a high nose bridge.

In addition, my mom (not me) is also very fair skinned. So often times, people don’t recognize my mom as asian. And sometimes, people look at me with suspicion like I had my entire face made-over or something.

It seriously bothers me because to the best of my knowledge, a lot of Chinese people (because there are so many of us) are born with “caucasian” features. (whether or not the the features really are “caucasian” can be disputed in my opinion)

I’ve had people tell me I don’t really look asian, which offends me because since when does a white person get to tell me how an asian person should look like? (maybe if I put on plastic buck teeth and taped my eyes I’ll look more asian to them).

And this is why i’m generally against discussions about physical features and plastic surgery and their relationship with colonialism.

Posted 12 Feb 2009 at 2:04 am ¶
Katherine wrote:

@ Valerie

don’t use the word “oriental” to categorize asian people! that’s highly offensive- oriental refers to objects and material goods like rugs and tea sets..

that in itself and your referencing of friends who are of color to give legitimacy to your point invalidates it.

Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 9:28 pm ¶
Naomi wrote:

This is old but I feel the need to comment.

Echoing what commenter j said, I feel like there’s a huge misconception in the West that in getting these surgeries or having a beauty standard of “big eyes, fair skin” is because of a complex inner desire to be white as a result of being exposed to white-dominant media and portrayal of beauty. While I don’t doubt that there ARE some Asian girls who find white features attractive and try to emulate them, I think many who opt for the eyelid surgery or hair dying or prefer fair skin have no intention of looking white. We are trying to evaluate other cultures’ beauty ideals based on our own Western slant and assuming that “they want to look like us [white people]“. A Korean girl living in Korea all her life is not going to be bombarded by white beauty ideals her whole life. The want for fair skin and big eyes is not Asians trying to copy a Western beauty standard, that’s they’re OWN beauty standard. To say that it is is to marginalise a large portion of Asians who are naturally fair-skinned and have big eyes, because they “don’t look Asian” according to our Western ideas of appearance.

Let me put it this way. When white women get fake tans and lip collagen injections, do we accuse them of trying to look black?

Posted 26 Jul 2009 at 11:00 pm ¶