Open Thread: Dating, Online and Off

by Latoya Peterson

Reader Minda sent in this interesting tidbit she heard while listening to the radio. She writes:

I was listening to XM Shade 45 today and the rappers/hosts of the radio show were discussing how on eHarmony they might get a possible match, but then when the woman hears their voice on the phone and discerns their black she’s no longer interested. They talked about how they had to use their “white” voices and how if internet dating sites are a last ditch effort, then what are black men to do?

Now, there are a lot of potential places to go for conversation in this small paragraph, but I want to focus on the race based lack of interest angle. Has anyone else ever been hit with the “you aren’t what I was expecting?”

I’m also going to expand this a bit. One of Wendi Muse’s most commented on posts is Craigslist Personals: Desperately Seeking Diversity Training where Wendi discusses the racial bias inherent in a lot of personals postings.

She notes:

In the world of online dating, where a user name, masked email address, and optional photo sharing means freedom to speak ones mind in complete anonymity, users frequently abandon political correctness and resort to exotification, stereotypes, and blatant racism when referring to racial/ethnic “others” in their attempts to choose a mate. While some ads include the user’s thoughts on race is more subtle ways, for example, simply stating a racial “preference” (still, arguably, a sign of prejudice), others are more obvious in their descriptions—ranging from the utilization of explicitly racist phrases or terms to describe his/her own background and/or the background of the person being sought to downright exclusion a la Jim Crow style (“No -insert race here- need apply”).

Wendi also calls attention to the ways things are implied online:

2. People like using juxtapositions a lot to imply stereotypes about certain groups.

For example, I see a lot of things like this: “I am looking for a woman who is slim, drama-free, intelligent, and who has no children. No black or Latin women, please.” Though sentences like that are not connected, you can clearly connect the dots on your own. Apparently the racism found in the “rejection” line of some posts is so common and offensive that a few members mentioned about it in their posts:

“Don’t be a SBM. No matter how clever, funny, or interesting you are once she finds out you’re black the emails stop. If you put SBM in your post you can pretty much guarantee no responses.”

“It seems that every non-asian woman have preferences for pretty much everyone except asian. Even asian women in new york city have started to steer their preference more towards non-asian males…I’d like to know why the majority of new york women are so closeminded toward us. You guys claim you aren’t racist or anything but why have such a preference? I figured since NYC was so diverse, it would be different but I guess I was wrong. I can understand if women like a guy who is tall/short, or strong/fat but based on race is kinda weird.”

Has anyone else ever experienced this?

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Comments

Phil wrote:

Oh yes I have seen this! Back when I was deep into online dating, I have seen the sentences describing in no uncertain terms than black men were not wanted. I’ve seen this in white, black, latino and asian descriptions. I saw it so much that I think I subsconsciously made it clear in my own descrip that I was NOT biased towards any color…I just wanted a sense of humor, intelligence, and humility. The only thing I didn’t “prefer” in all honesty were any bone-thin women, lol…

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:10 pm ¶
Mammith wrote:

YES. Online dating has thrown up nothing but bad experiences. I really do agree that the anonymity allows people to come out with crazy crap they’d never say in real life.

One thing I’ve noticed is that guys and girls (of all races) seem to explicitly want white people to respond, unless they have some kind of fetish (and you can debate it being a fetish, but when they ask for things like ‘wild and busty black women’ or ’subservient Asian boys’ I personally can’t read it any other way).

Years ago I made the mistake of responding to someone who wanted someone of a Turkish/Iranian/Arab background, not really thinking much of it. The stream of things they told me they wanted (along the lines of a fantasy of our ’sexual repression/deviance’) scared the hell out of me.

In other cases when people found out about my race in any online discourse, straight away block all communication, which was fun.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:14 pm ¶
Lola wrote:

I’m a black woman but I’ve had white men contact me even though their profile explicitly lists a preference for only white or Asian women. I’ve seen profiles where the prefer every race but black (including profiles that belong to black men).

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:23 pm ¶
Minda wrote:

I just think it’s very sad and disheartening that online dating makes people more narrow in their requests rather than them keeping their minds and their hearts open to anyone who’s personality is a good fit for their own.

The radio hosts took it in a humorous way, having listeners call up and practice their “white” voice. But they also discussed Craig’s List “escorts” who once peeking through the peep hole wouldn’t let them in. Even if they flashed the cash up front!

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:25 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:

Oh man, thanks for this thread. This has been driving me crazy lately. I’ve turned to online dating recently, and I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had a really engaging conversation, and then as soon as photos are exchanged, the person disappears. And while I know that not everyone is going to be attracted to me, I really think it’s because the mental image that they create of this intelligent, well-spoken medical student is of a slim, white woman by default. And when they see curvy, brown me, their little fantasy is blown.

I also have found that I receive very, very few e-mails on Christian dating websites, certainly never from white men (unless they are twice my age or from another country).

Maybe I’m just unattractive, but I don’t think that’s it. I think race has a lot to do with it.

As for people stating their racial preferences, I prefer it. At least then, I don’t waste time crafting a witty response to an ad, when they’re never going to be interested anyway.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:27 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:

@Mammith, I agree with you about the fetish posts. Usually, when a man expresses interest in someone of my particular race or body type, it’s sexually explicit in nature. It seems that everyone who is looking for a real relationship is looking for a default that is something other than me.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:29 pm ¶
Noir72 wrote:

Gosh yes!

I remember when I was sharing a house with my friend who was newly-divorced-after 10 years, he lamented that women would not be interested in him because he was pushing 40. I told him he had nothing to worry about because he had a great personality, and was professional and intellegent. He told me I was too, and thought it would be a great idea if we went on one of those dating sites together.

In my mind, I thought “easy for him… he looks almost white and has blue eyes. I’m a black man… never mind the rest.” I was painfully aware of the perception of black men as being “bottom-of-the-barrel-last-resort” for almost anyone except fetishists. After much cajolling from him, I reluctantly agreed.

Despite the fact that I was a single, childless, professional man who has never been married, or had any legal or personal drama, I was still not the “preference” of just about all the profiles I looked at. Matter of fact, I got to the point that when I saw a profile that caught my interest, the first thing I did was scroll down to read her “about my match” preferences. Usually, “African-American” was conspicuously absent, no matter what the woman’s race was. Respecting their right to who they prefered in a mate, I didn’t bother to read any further or respond.

Getting back to the story: sure enough, my friend had dates out the yin-yang and married within a year… I couldn’t even get the time of day.

I guess when you’re stereotyped as a criminal, a dawg, or whatever, you could become a preist and it would matter little. One thing is for certain, I will not change who I am to attract anyone. (as if I could)

I guess it is what it is.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:45 pm ¶
deathblossom wrote:

Craigslist is the worst. The lesbian personals are all filled with butch/femme seekers and of those, so many are “white and Asian only please” coupled with “height and weight proportionate” (because the rest of us are all ugly and fat, you know). It pretty much takes away the reason I was trying in the first place, which was to get away from the exclusion (based om several factors) within my college community. So, I umderstand the whole “not good enough for the last resort” feeling and am a bit at wits end about what to do now. Of course, the worst story I’ve ever heard came from my own aunt, who told me that upon learning a potential suitor was from Iraq, she asked him if he was a terrorist. And she often wonders why she’s still single…

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:49 pm ¶
TierListE wrote:

I’m actually in an IR relationship that started with online dating. With me it was a bit different.

With the few times I ended up on a dating site I put up my picture immediately to try to scare people off (I wasn’t actually there for the dating aspect). What I ran into was the attraction of the, well, common white male.

Now, trust, it’s not usual, and I never was swamped with emails from men in general, much less white guys, but a good handfull of the people that emailed me were white men that did not fetishize black women, but also weren’t (at all) race enlightened, or trying to be. Which threw me for a loop initially. I was/am weary that they were just looking for a token minority girlfriend to cross off before they settle down in a “real” relationship. Because of that I’m just now starting to give this relationship a try.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 1:56 pm ¶
uu wrote:

@thesciencegirl, I’m curious about the christian dating site that you use. It wouldn’t seem to me like a place for a black female of any sort to look for dates. I would think that 1) they have a large white patronage and 2) because of that, they probably would not be interested in dating interracially anyways. In my experience, white christians are not forth coming to issues of racial equality, maybe that is just my bad luck.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 2:04 pm ¶
Elton wrote:

Dating in general is, and has always been, based on stereotypes and generalizations. It’s about social power and image–adding to your own social power by getting with the right person to boost your social image.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 2:07 pm ¶
Gail wrote:

I’m glad you posted about this. I’m white, and refuse to match up with those who post race-based preferences regardless of their ethnic/racial profile. Discussions on internet dating websites around this topic will often treat the preferences like some innocuous issue of “taste” or a more explicit fetish. I don’t think all people who are using the internet to find a partner are completely superficial, culturally biased, and emotionally shallow, but the technology does lend itself more readily toward creating those kinds of relationships.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 2:21 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:

@uu

The one I have used most recently is christiancafe, and yes, I have found that the site is largely populated by whites not interested in interracial dating.

It’s very frustrating because I would really like to date someone who shares my beliefs, as central as they are to my life, and I thought that a website geared toward that would be a good place to look, but no…

Sometimes I can find men who share my faith, or who aren’t intimidated by my career, or who don’t care that I’m not skinny…. but never all at once in the same man. le sigh.

Unfortunately, in “real” life, none of my daily activities (school, church, volunteering, salsa dancing, etc.) have netted me any dates in like a year, so I keep trying the net and hoping to find something real…. but no luck yet.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 2:34 pm ¶
Chris wrote:

@Elton: Good point.

I signed up for PlentyOfFish and, while I got three or four responses and a date within a week, most often I’d send messages and never hear a response. If I did get a message back, we’d never really meet up.

My friend, however, had 3 dates lined up within days of signing up. I don’t know what I did wrong, but his now-girlfriend read over my profile and said it was hilarious and really well written.

I’ve responded to Craigslist ads, picture attached, and got no replies at all. I even posted an ad in Strictly Platonic (I’d given up all hope on dating and was just looking for someone to hang out with) and had a couple of women respond with their pictures, but lost all contact once I emailed mine back.

Finally, I got tired of it and wrote a pretty cynical ad entitled “Not What You’re Looking For” which dissected the normal list of must-have qualities many women (at least in the Chicagoland area) post in their ads and the stereotypes they’d associated with someone with their less-than-ideal superficial qualities.

ie. “I’m not athletic, which means I’m an extremely lazy couch potato who’ll do nothing but get Frito crumbs in between the cracks of your couch while I watch Jerry Springer on TV. I have no intention on getting in shape at all. The only crunches I care about are from the handful of Ruffles potato chips I’m cramming into my mouth, and the only six-pack I have is the Natty Light on top of my beer belly.”

I got a ton of positive responses, a few of which were from women I’d contacted before. Then again, I didn’t post my picture on the ad, either.

I’m currently six months into a relationship with a girl I met on there, and I am extremely lucky to have met her.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that the dating scene sucks, and the online scene does moreso. But hey, I’d rather know ahead of time if someone were shallow and prejudiced enough to dismiss someone based on their race before I actually meet them.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 3:04 pm ¶
Noir72 wrote:

Elton #11

You don’t realize how true that is. When I was younger (and more naieve) I wouldn’t have imagined it.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 3:16 pm ¶
Bagelsan wrote:

I haven’t tried any online dating (yet) but the preference thing vs. fetishism is interesting. I was just thinking about that earlier today; I guess I feel like it comes down to whether the preference is purely physical to some extent, or whether the person with a “preference” is making judgments about personality/etc based on looks.

For example, I would say I have a slight “looks-only” preference for East Asian guys, but it’s mostly that I’m more likely to notice “hey, he’s cute!” than that I’m like “hey, he’s probably super polite! That’s hot!” And it’s certainly not an exclusive preference; I’ve found plenty of guys of all races hot, it just seems to happen a bit more often with certain types.

Having a preference and then *excluding* everyone else based on that is SO ridiculous though; just ’cause I’m more likely to find an Asian guy attractive while I’m randomly out-and-about, why the *hell* would I want to exclude the guys of other races I might be attracted to as well? And this is even just thinking in purely shallow terms; factoring in individual personalities and interests and all that makes the likelihood that I’d find everything I want out of a significant other *ONLY in* a guy of a certain race crazy-tiny.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 3:21 pm ¶
JD/ formerly J wrote:

Not black enough for the white ones not white enough for the black ones…That is the story of my life I guess. At a club, this white guy from Connecticut accused me of not knowing my culture because I didnt know the title of any biggie songs. Never mind that I am African….Of course with the Black ones, it is the ‘cute for a dark skinned girl’ crap…whatever. I am cute,smart AND funny if they cant see that they can go hang

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 3:24 pm ¶
singlesnet wrote:

its only cause people feel safe online to be rascist

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 3:47 pm ¶
rebecca wrote:

I have had men online get angry at me because of my strict policy NOT to date anyone who expresses a racial preference including white but not every other group. They contact me because they want “white or asian” and they don’t understand why I, a white woman, would find this so offensive that I refuse to talk to them at all.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 3:53 pm ¶
Ali wrote:

I’ve been on match.com for a little over a month now. I find that most guys have more discriminating taste in body type than race or ethnicity. I haven’t gone on any dates through match because I’m still kind of wary of online dating so I haven’t sent any messages or made any real efforts to “work” the site. Given that, I can’t really talk about any race based rejection I’ve suffered. However, I have been intrigued by some of the interest my profile has generated. I’ve always felt that white guys were more interested in me (at least more so than black guys). When I originally made my profile I checked every ethnicity except white as guys I would be interested in. Despite this, lo and behold, one of the first five responses I received was from a white guy asking if I dated interracially. I have since amended my profile to say that I’m interested in all guys regardless of ethnicity. Still I found it very interesting that even in an online situation where we’ve never held a conversation I still pull the white guys! Can’t blame this one on my “white girl” voice!

@Chris – Would you recommend Plenty Of Fish? I’ve thought about signing up but was a little concerned about their screening process given that it is a free site. I think humor is so important when it comes to a profile because it really lets your personality shine through. Thanks for sharing!

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 4:05 pm ¶
Elton wrote:

@singlesnet

Heh, lots of people feel safe being racist in real life, too, if they have the social power to avoid retribution. I’ve found that among truly anonymous online communities, where everyone is equally unidentifiable, actual (non-ironic) racism isn’t well tolerated.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 4:06 pm ¶
Noir72 wrote:

Chris, if heaven forbid, I find myself on the market and have to go on one of those dating sites again, may I have your permission to use your “cynical” ad? lol

I guess it’s something about an irretrievably messed-up guy that turns women on…

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 4:11 pm ¶
jetessence wrote:

@thesciencegirl

I recently signed up onto that SAME Christian dating site. Your experience matches mine.

It’s not us. I’m going to toot my own horn right now, but I know I’m a cute girl with great qualities, OK? So why are old men the only ones who express interest?

I even made sure that my “viewed your profile” function was kept as “visible.” So, when I visit a potential’s profile, he would know that I viewed it.

I’m not even looking specifically for an interracial relationship. Just a relationship.
This is why I’m not totally down with this online dating thing.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 4:14 pm ¶
wendi muse wrote:

yikes…sorry for all those typos…is there such a thing as retroactive spellcheck? lol

p.s. another side note…online dating is really popular in brazil…though the emphasis on race is…well…more subtle, to say the least

though the stereotypes for certain racial groups, especially in terms of penis size and sexual performance, unfortunately remain the same

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 4:44 pm ¶
Cynthia wrote:

I have to be honest. I’m very picky about upbringing. If someone mentions he’s second generation, I grill him about how he was brought up. If his upbrining was too “old country” then he’s no longer considered a prospect. It’s never about race, it’s about how much you have in common and whether his parents would like me. So even if a guy is culturally Anglo-Canadian, if his parents are culturally “old country,” chances are, they’d wouldn’t like me (and if they’re Chinese, they’d think I’m an ignorant jook sing)

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 4:45 pm ¶
Gawdzilla wrote:

How about writing to the management of the online dating company and telling them their race preference option is offensive? I would post a picture, to lessen time wasted with idiots who can’t handle what you are (or is that giving in?). I mean, dating is such a meat market bringing people’s pre-conceived notions into play, is it not? Although I agree that it’s gross to “check the box” about race for a “preference.” I suppose I’m “white,” and I’m deeply annoyed by checking the box that identifies me as “caucasian” in any survey. I usually check “other,” or leave it blank if that’s not available. One small way to revolt.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 5:07 pm ¶
Daktari wrote:

Crrrripes. Am I racist for being a white woman attracted to African American men? I’ve used interracial and black-targeted dating sites for about a year. I don’t mention race in my profile–I figure that my photo does that for me, and my presence on these sites communicates my preferences.

I’ve seen a few African American male profiles (definitely not the majority) specifically stating they are not interested in hearing from white women, which is fine, but I have also gotten messages of interest from these same individuals. I have found a lot of men suspicious about me and my motives. Some of them never get past that. Despite what some have written here, I don’t consider myself a fetishist. I am looking for a healthy, normal relationship with someone who looks different than me.

But I am also hearing the same frustration from men here that I feel. When I tell men that I’m a grad student pursuing a PhD, I never hear from them again. I’m not sure if it’s the student status or the doctorate that sends them running. I can only assume they have so many options that they can afford to toss back one who is interested or they would rather be alone than take a chance on something outside their comfort zone. But I don’t look at people who quit corresponding with me as racist.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 5:16 pm ¶
jen* wrote:

I’ve been dancing around this whole online dating thing for a while, now. I’ve posted profiles, but never really gotten into contacting anyone, because I’m extremely leery – even though one of my best friends got married to a guy she met online – and their family is terrific.

thesciencegirl when I was reading your comments, I thought – Are we the same person? Christian sites do tend toward more racial homogeneity in terms of who will contact me, but the old dude/non-American dude thing was right on for me too. For any race, actually.

Really, I’ve been too uninvolved to give a fair opinion of how these sites work as far as the racial biases go. But I’ll echo the comment about size preferences being more apparent to me than racial ones.

I wouldn’t take a second look at a profile that listed a racial preference, and listed my own as all inclusive/no preference/equal-opp0rtunity.

I haven’t checked my profile in months…maybe I should.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 5:20 pm ¶
Evan wrote:

I’m currently using OkCupid and haven’t had any real success. When I first put my profile up (I was in Houston), I had a few people contact me and we had a back and forth conversation before it died out. Now that I’ve moved to Delaware, I get nada. No one I’ve tried to contact has responded to my messages. There’s this thing called Quickmatch where you can express interest in a person and see if they are interested in you as well.

Most of the people who quickmatch me (rare) are….how should I put this. Lower-class white women with kids. Now I’m open to dating anyone, but I feel…no, I know that I’m being stereotyped. The girls who quickmatch me and aren’t “like that”, never respond to my messages.

From what I can tell, this is a common problem on OkCupid regardless of race, but I’m sure the fact that I’m black isn’t helping.

I’ve thought about trying another website like Match.com, but I’m loathe to pay for the same kind of disappointment I’ve gotten free from OKC. Anyone (specifically black males) had success with another dating site?

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 5:28 pm ¶
Celeste wrote:

Nothing new to contribute. I just second that emotion reguarding guys winking at black me and then having every race except mine listed as a preference. We gee thanks for making an exception. It’s also weird that I’ve had to actually speak to my single female friends (one white, one south asian) about not adding asian and black guys to the possible races on eHarmony. *awkward* I told them that unless they know for sure that there’s not a black or asian man on the face of the planet that could make you happy then they are doing themselves a disservice by excluding them from the beginning. I can (kinda, sorta) understand that they typically aren’t attracted to asian or black guys but to just count every single solitary one of them out when you don’t even know them puts way too much power in these preconceived notions.
I also told them that they’d probably get better quality black men than I could because they’re higher on the dating racial totem pole than I am (generalization, I know; definetely not always but still way too common).

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 5:41 pm ¶
kerrita k wrote:

i’ve done both print ads (met my former fiance) and internet ads and am going back on match in january and i gotta say i am much more likely to get “hits” from the print ads in alty-indy local papers. while the fetishists are out there ~ the “i love black girls” set ~ *ick!* i feel the social pressure to post photos disadvantages me online as a dark skinned african-american woman. i wish i didn’t feel that way. but i do.
and there are so few black (of any sort) guys in my area on match that i send e-mails to friends with exuberant notices…
as well. has a woc or poc noticed that even with the exo-racial matches on match.com and the like that the numbers rarely get about 85% compatibility? i wonder if race is the other 15%?…

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 6:25 pm ¶
Erica wrote:

Okay, I don’t understand why it’s a problem to prefer a certain race. I’m white…and I prefer white men. I’m speaking in terms of looks of course, since their isn’t a personality assigned to a race. I cannot help what I am attracted to. I don’t feel that I’m racist because of it. Gay men aren’t attracted to women, are they sexist? No. Everyone is “prejudiced” when it comes to choosing a mate. Most women prefer taller men and in turn most men prefer shorter women. Is this prejudice? No, it’s simply preference and there is a difference. Don’t condemn people for what they’re attracted to.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 6:28 pm ¶
Yvette wrote:

Not single. Never used on-line dating sites. But it seems to me one solution would be for, um, some of you folks here to try to connect with each other? Just saying.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 7:22 pm ¶
afropique wrote:

I am a black woman who met her white husband through an online personals site. He had a hilarious joke profile (he was wearing a giant foam cowboy hat and had a word bubble that said “howdy” coming out of his mouth.

That’s not to say that I didn’t get the runaround about 10 or 15 times beforehand. I guess there aren’t many people who have gotten the memo that “I’ve never been attracted to a black girl until I met you; you’re not like other black people” is NOT a complement. And they would say it to my face! I just wanted to shake these guys and go:

“dude, I grew up upper-middle-class just like you and went to a decent college just like you and I am a professional just like you. Judging from our profiles, we have a lot of the same interests. I’m not gonna be your ‘jump-off’ or your ‘inter-racial relationship science project.’ DAMN!”

With almost all of the people I met (including my husband) I initiated the contact. I got a few responses, but they were from dirty old men.

After speaking to a few of my online dating friends whose mailboxes were flooded with potential dates, I wondered why I wasn’t getting any bites. They said my profile was funny and I looked good in my photos…

Since I wasn’t getting any decent dates I decided to use my profile as a social experiment. I put the same profile up three or four different times. For the first one, I used an photo of my cute white friend (with her permission). For the second one, I used a regular photo of myself that reflected my personality. I think I was wearing t-shirt with a silly saying or something. For the third one, I had a friend take some artsy model-type black and white photos. I looked damn good. AND I wore a wig so it looked like I had straight hair (I actually have dreadlocks). I think for the fourth one I posted my profile with no photo.

I don’t think you have to guess which profile got the most nibbles. Even from people who had NONE of the same interests. Second was straight hair, third was no photo, and last was regular old me.

If dating is a minefield, online dating is like letting someone lob a grenade at you.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 7:25 pm ¶
Twanna A. Hines wrote:

Oh, goodness. Y’all made me come out of my usual lurking / hiding for this one.

Couple quick thoughts …

(1) Where do dating sites that specifically target black people — and other ethnicities/races who aren’t opposed to dating black people — (i.e. BlackPeopleMeet.com) enter the discussion / debate? Seems impossible to talk about online dating without bringing up all the various alternatives.

(2) A reoccurring theme in the above comments is: people are more racist online than they are in person. My thoughts? This might actually a GOOD thing in some instances!!! I’d rather Person X … should I use “W” for “white” instead? … be honest about what he is or isn’t looking for than gloss over it with bullshit like: “Gee, I really have no preferences when dating people” …. then conveniently ignore ALL inquiries from women or men who don’t fit whatever racist, ageist, etc., etc,. standards X/W dude has in mind.

Hell, if you’re gonna be a racist, be a g*ddamn racist. Let’s get real about where race relations are and/or aren’t in this country. If you don’t know what sentiments you’re dealing with, it’s impossible to address or, perhaps, change them. Right? That said … No, don’t I expect every ignorant assh*le to have a free reign to spread hate wherever he or she chooses. I keep going back to what blogger Angry Aussie says about this: “Free speech does not mean putting up with some fuckwit just hassling you [...] You have the right not to provide a platform for anyone you want.”

Bringing everything back to the topic at hand, should online dating sites let folks get buckwild with racist sh*t? Nope. However, should people on those sites be allowed to check boxes indicating what they are and aren’t looking for in a partner? Absolutely.

Stay tuned. You KNOW I’m gonna write about this in longer form on my own site now. It’s too hard to take things out of context and/or not have room to explain in a tiny comment of 10 – 20 lines.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 7:43 pm ¶
Antonio wrote:

As a gay black man, I’ve experienced some frustration with online dating. Living in NC, there aren’t a whole lot of options unless you want to deal with thumping club music.

The only people who really piss me off are the guys who say outright “not into black guys”. Some even put it in all caps. Others apologize with “sorry it’s just a preference”! Is it that hard to just ignore the messages?

I don’t bash people who have racial preferences, everybody has superficial qualities they look for in potential dates. But I think a lot of prejudice and stereotyping is at work here. I just roll my eyes at people looking for “thugs”. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for many Arab and Asian men.

I don’t think dating for white gay men is all wine and roses, but I do feel like I need to be more fit, more smart and funny, and more successful to get attention. And the messages from men old enough to be my father get old.[/whine]

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 8:06 pm ¶
Eunice wrote:

@jetessence

Truer words have never been spoken. I’m too chicken to try online dating (in all my 18 years, I haven’t dated and I’m finally feeling comfy about it). It’s always the older guys that tell me I’m attractive (think 10 years older than I am and sometimes, men in their 40s and 50s). Guys in my age and peer bracket (college seniors), no matter their ethnicity, don’t even give me a second glance.

@thesciencegirl, an acquaintance of mine expressed the exact same feelings about the Christian dating sites. She was like “It’s not like I’m a heretic or something. Why don’t they find black women attractive? The closest criterion to me there was ‘biracial’. What happened to all of us being the same in God’s eyes?”

Oh, and don’t get me started on “whiteness” in Christianity (I’m Christian, but one progressive anti-racist Episcopalian w/ Eastern Orthodox leanings). Pre-med student or not, I would write a freaking thesis on that.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:11 pm ¶
Trey wrote:

you should see the gay dating sites. It’s so bad there that people have had to start a “Sexual Racism Sux” campaign.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:31 pm ¶
Kelvin wrote:

My experience is a bit different. I got very far in the communication process with this lady on a popular dating site. She was black (as I was) and a first generation American (parents migrated from Jamaica). We had a lot in common and she was rally into me until she found out I was Nigerian. Once she found out I grew up in Nigeria, she immediately stopped all the communication. It wasn’t until a week later that I figured it all out. She sent me a final email and said she does not deal with Nigerians as we are all “crooks”. It was a very funny experience though.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:34 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

Ah, this. It would be way more efficient if sites allowed you to immediately weed out people who are not looking for your racial group from your search results, so people could see what they’d be paying for, and more easily find their potential matches. After a lot of “messing around” with trial memberships, I discovered that online dating, for me, in my area, is not a possibility. I once had an ABB (anything but black) profiled black guy contact me, a black woman. Calling him on that was great fun, indeed. I also remember when I was talking with a white guy online about a racial incident I’d had at my uni orientation where a girl refused to be my roommate upon seeing me. He was empathetic, then he wrote “…You’re Asian, right?” (No…) Latina? (No…)” After I told him I was black, he asked for a picture, I gave it, I never heard from him again. Do many people not look at profiles when socializing on profile-based sites? Because from the people that have contacted me in the past, it’s as if I’d never written one, or they thought it was an interesting work of fiction that could be used as an ice-breaker. Guy who’s the complete opposite of the mate criteria I listed: “Hey, how about that (insert interest of mine that I briefly mentioned in my profile)?” Not listening isn’t a very good way to start a relationship, methinks. But yeah… online dating isn’t so great for black people in general, black women in particular. However, I realize, on account of having my own preferences, that they’re extremely difficult to change, even when held up to scrutiny and deconstructed in light of flawed cultural standards. What do ya’ll think that the people that have racial preferences ought to do, especially if the preferences are based on reasonably accurate cultural and physical differences, as opposed to stereotypes and caricatures? Is there an acceptable way to express them, or should they do what some others do and lie, saying that they want “any race” while in reality ignoring contacts from undesired races and only contacting members from the races that they want to date? Should they wean themselves off of their ideas of what’s attractive/culturally compatible, and if so, how?

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:45 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

thesciencegirl, get used to scaring men off when you mention “medical student”. It’s not * just* the race issue or the pleasingly plump issue for you. Men hear “medical student” or “resident” or “physician”, and unless they are themselves high earners, doctoral level scholars, or professionals, most men considering a relationship (rather than a one-night-bonk) get a bit anxious about the woman who makes or will make more money than he does/will, and who will be expected to work long hours. Late-marrying (medical school or after) women doctors tended to marry other doctors in my generation. The current cohort of women medical students seem to date mostly lawyers, Ph.D. level scientists, etc. Women M.D.s/D.O.s with non-professional husbands usually married hometown sweethearts or married in college.

Back on topic. I’d rather see people’s expectations up front. If a POC posts a “in search of POC (gender) ” fairly generic ad, I am not going to waste their time, I don’t fit. I don’t want to spend time divining their reasons for the preference.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:47 pm ¶
Jaya wrote:

I’ve never dated online, and hope to never have to. It seems like it would be a horrible thing to be forced into a race-based game, and to have to think of yourself as either desirable or undesirable because of your ethnicity. I’m Indian, and I rarely think about how my race affects my chances with the opposite sex, because I would never be with someone who factors in my race in deciding whether they want to date me or not. Online, I think I’d be forced to realize that my race is not the normative standard.

I hate being singled out for my race in real life, and can avoid it, usually, by making personal connections with people of a different background. But you can’t avoid being made into “the other” on the internet.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:51 pm ¶
NancyP wrote:

I would think that some or most Christian sites would have an even larger proportion of men who want male headship rather than partnership than do the generic dating sites. This could contribute to women with high-status or high-salary careers being bypassed.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 9:56 pm ¶
Mike wrote:

I’m a gay white man in my late 30s living in Los Angeles. I’m on one of the big mainstream non-free dating sites (match.com). I don’t post a race preference on my ad, but, I do have preferences in terms of attraction that approximately fall along racial lines. I feel divided over posting a racial preference on my ad. If I do put a racial preference, it makes me look like a racist. If I don’t, I get contacted by people for whom I feel little chemistry, and I have to tell them “no thanks.” I’ve been on the receiving end of “no thanks” many times, and I know that it is always a sting to the ego.

I do tend to receive a fair amount of contacts from Asian (specifically Chinese-American) men. This is statistically unusual because Asians make up only 3% of the subscribers in central-west LA. I have no explanation for why this is so. But largely I receive messages from white men. This is not surprising statistically. Despite anglos being only about 30% of the population in LA’s central-west they make up about 80% of people on the site within 5 miles of me.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 10:25 pm ¶
LaurynX wrote:

“you should see the gay dating sites. It’s so bad there that people have had to start a “Sexual Racism Sux” campaign.”

I was about to mention that! I’m a lesbian, but I’ve seen some of the gay male personals ads…some of that shit is merciless! It’s interesting b/c there are unique words for gay men who like certain races like “snow queen” (only likes white men), and “dinge queen” etc.

I haven’t done online dating, but I’ve seen some personals ads from lesbians. They are usually the least racially charged of all the groups I’ve seen. Though don’t get me wrong I’ve seen “NO [Insert race here]” before.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 10:31 pm ¶
Eli wrote:

One of my very first online dating experiences was in university. I was emailing a guy for a while, and he was going to come up to my uni for a weekend to hang out. Then he called on the phone to talk. I was fresh out of Detroit, and sounded like it.

He was, “Are you black? Because you didn’t say you were black.”

Guess who didn’t show up for the weekend?

I’ve not had anything that sucky happen since then, but now that I’m living in Australia, I know that I’m a delightful touch of exoticism for some of the guys here.

I keep getting contact from guys about 5-10 years younger than I am (29), non-black, and into rap and hip hop and I just have to wonder what the hell they want with me. There’s nothing in my profile to indicate that I’m into that scene or subculture, and yet I attract them.

Which is weird – it’s like they’re saying, “Yeah, you’re 10 years older and you don’t give a shit about the music or lifestyle I like, but you’re black and that’s good enough for me!” Um, thanks?

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 10:49 pm ¶
thesciencegirl wrote:

@Evan, my best online dating experience came from okcupid…. I had a few fun dates with a guy from that site (who, coincidentally was white and never brought up our differing races…. it was quite pleasantly a non-issue), but that was a year ago and I’ve had very little luck since then.

@Kelvin, that is horrible!

And as for the whole preference thing, I too have preferences. For instance, I am very rarely attracted to black men (and trust me, I’ve psychoanalyzed myself on this thing many times), but I have had a couple of experiences where I really fell for a black guy…. I always write “no racial preference” on websites, and I’m open to meeting whoever…. I so often develop feelings for men who are not my “type” that I’ve decided not to preemptively exclude anyone. But I don’t necessarily conflate preferences with prejudice, although that is sometimes the case.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 11:10 pm ¶
Atena wrote:

Indeed! I was on nerve.com before it started to suck real bad. That’s where I met my husband.

Before I met him, I started out with a picture of a pair of tall, black boots on my profile instead of my own visage. When I met dudes, they were usually able to overcome any surprise about my skin color in a subtle way that caused no offense.

I had 2 experiences with guys who were really excited to meet until we actually met. Then the dates proceeded to be inexplicably awkward and uncomfortable in spite of my best efforts. I have some suspicions as to why (COUGH- UNEXPECTED BLACK GIRL!- COUGH COUGH) As I say, they are suspicions, little more.

I actually had a long conversation with a friend as to why I did not advertise my race on my profile – she said she felt bad that I felt the need to hide it. I didn’t think I was hiding it – I figured I was creating an opportunity for anyone who was into tall, black boots. ‘Cause it was no misrepresentation – I had plenty of them.

I didn’t even fuck around with anyone listing a weight preference and wrote several rejections based on that guideline.

Posted 10 Dec 2008 at 11:20 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“I do tend to receive a fair amount of contacts from Asian (specifically Chinese-American) men. This is statistically unusual because Asians make up only 3% of the subscribers in central-west LA. I have no explanation for why this is so.”

It may be due to your racial preference setting. From what I hear, a lot of gay men post some variation of “No Asians” on their profiles.

this article is about racial preferences in gay hook-ups from an Asian-American perspective (some explicit content): http://www.temenos.net/articles/12-24-04.shtml

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 1:29 am ¶
Asada wrote:

Yeah I don’t think online dating could work for me.

I am very person/intimacy phobic. I would have to be close friends with someone before I take the plunge to date them.

I have a Facebook profile and I have NEVER put up a real picture of myself ( I have been using abstract art photos), I am even considering changing my name (for added privacy from…get this…employers!). Giving a stranger a picture of myself and then never hearing from them again is actually quite scary.

In the days when Facebook was new and only for college students. I had no idea ppl went to college just to find a date (and heck, maybe get a diploma on the side , ya know?)

I talked to two different guys, the fact that they were white never registered with me, or the fact that they were LOL funny as just another form of flirtation. I never put up my picture. I saw them as just friends, and I wanted to meet them!

ONE was kind enough to go to dinner with me and my friends then never talked to me again ( to be fair, the situation was so awkward I never talked to him either), the other was racist. We only hung out because my roommate was friendly and badly needed help with math. He was an engineer. But he always seemed scared of me and I heard him call me names. Come to think of it, Maybe he would be the * White and Asian only* guy because he would AIM her out of the blue even after she asked for his help.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 1:34 am ¶
TierList E wrote:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with preferences. I believe every person has them. With some people it is more superficial, and of those people these superficial preferences may well fall more snugly into a particular racial category. Heck, I have preferences that favors certain racial categories. But I can never certainly exclude (and it can make more sense in its opposite- ‘I’ll never instantly accept’) a certain race because of those preferences alone.

People that can surely say they will never date X people have some level of problem with those people. Does it mean they hate them and want to burn their houses down and kill their babies? Of course not. But they do not find those people up to par socially for procreation (or even close interaction if they aren’t looking to settle down). I stand by that.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 2:27 am ¶
TierList E wrote:

(because I keep running my mouth on these topics gods knows why)

But saying all that, I’d rather people keep these racial exclusion up front. I see no need to waste my time with people that have issues with WoC. I’ve had more problems with guys who *are* attracted to me but had problems with PoC. For whatever reason, racism and what I term ‘date (or probably more accurately ’screw’) racism’ don’t like to be wholly consistent with each other, though they’re usually related.

>.> And I’m done for real this time.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 2:42 am ¶
Ike wrote:

I’ve contemplated making a Craigslist ad that lists that I’m looking for an anti-racist, anti-heterosexist, omnivorous, type B personality, puppy-loving gamer. But seeing as how Craigslist is so chock-full of racists and other creeps, I’m fairly sure I’d just get flamed.

My friend said that eHarmony or one of those dating sites is routinely unable to match Asian men because so many people exclude them from their “preferred race(s)” selection. I can’t verify the truth of that rumor.

I was actually just discussing physical/racial preferences with people last week. I’m really curious to know how we develop these preferences – a lot of it seems to be societal. And then I realized, with a strange feeling of irony, that I have slight gender/race preferences based on… get this… how likely it is for a person of that demographic to be anti-racist. For some reason, these unwarranted preconceived notions have burrowed far enough into my subconscious mind to affect my first-glance physical attractions as well.

*sigh* I am full of fail.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 3:49 am ¶
Jay wrote:

DATING, in general, is a crapshoot. Online dating is an even bigger crapshoot. I think people should think of all the dating websites as entertainment and focus primarily on meeting people in their daily offline lives. We all have ideas in our minds as to what we prefer when it comes to what we’re attracted to. A lot of us try to remain openminded to what might come at us when we least expect it. I see no problem with those who post a racial preference…especially when that racial preference mirrors the person themselves. I consider that natural. I’m a black man who finds beauty in blackness(though i can see it in other races as well). Those who use online dating websites should indicate their race/ethnicity OR(better yet) post a picture of themselves. It saves time and energy on everyone’s part

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 6:15 am ¶
Mammith wrote:

*disclaimer – I am NOT insinuating anything about the people here who have specifically wrote on racial preference, this is just one experience I have personally had.

I do believe that sometimes racial preference can come from a bad place. I have a friend, she’s black and is only into white guys. Now she never says she’s only into white guys because she’s actually into the whole pretty alternative looking guy thing and would never admit to just being into white guys. Yet she has shown no interest in any pretty looking guys who aern’t white.

*Sometimes* I think racial preference may just come down to stereotyping, because some people, like her, may like pretty boys and assume that only white boys can be pretty boys, yet there are numerous pretty boys of every race (which the media world doesn’t really reflect but whatever).

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 6:40 am ¶
hexy wrote:

Interesting discussion!

I use dating sites for two purposes: myself finding people to talk to and occasionally hook up with, and (separately) advertising for sex work clients. The big racial thingummy I run into comes from West Asian men.

I often have West Asian men contact me on my sex work profile using fake, Anglo names. Emails that are clearly written by someone struggling with written conversational English will be dotted with Australian slang. Great lengths will be gone to ensure that I don’t get “tipped off” that they’re non-white before they show up for their appointment. And, while I frankly don’t give a damn what ethnicity my clients are, I know that they’re engaging in this behaviour because there are a LOT of Australian sex workers who won’t see West Asian men.

I run into the same attitude using my personal profile… but the guys are a lot more abrupt about it. I’ll just get a message with a variant of the line “Do you like Indian men?” in it. Remarkably enough, I’m not going to respond favourably to a one liner like that, even if I understand how discouraging online dating must be when you’re VISIBLY a member of the currently not-in-vogue racial group.

(I’m Indigenous Australian, which isn’t exactly sought after by racial fetishists, but am usually read as white. For work purposes, I’m white unless someone bothers to ask.)

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 9:37 am ¶
elise wrote:

I ran around on eHarmony and match.com (and nerve oh lord). I found the religious identity and smoking/alcohol/drug preferences alot more revealing about a person and our compatability. OTOH, like some other commentors pointed out, when a guy did post a racial preference, it gave me an idea about who they were too (and I usually steered clear of them).

Most of my no-shows/no communication occurred after a guy learned that, no, I’m not a paralegal, I’m a lawyer. I know I should have been more explicit in my profile but it’s really annoying to get tossed out of the running for your job before you even get to talk!

@Asada, you’re not the only one with a fake pic/fake name on facebook.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 10:32 am ¶
bdsista wrote:

Ok, I love online dating! I met my ex-husband on Introserve.com (no longer exists). He was Blasian specifically Black/Japanese and came with kids who had a Filipino Mother. So this 40 yr old sister became a wife and mom to technically Asian kids all at once. What I liked (and still like) is if the profile is well written and all the pertinent details are true, then you can cut past the first date information seeking part and get right down to compatibility and chemistry. We talked on the phone every night for a solid week about what we liked and disliked, wanted in a mate blah Blah. By the time we got to the first date it was all about the chemistry. It was good, and we married 11 months later. It didn’t last, but I found the process less painful than the years and months of traditional dating.

I was on Blackplanet and that was kind of meatmarkety and I got off. They have since revamped their entire website to be like a Black MySpace, so I am back on, but just for the social networking part, the dating part still has some time wasters on there as well as the crazy “Dr.” I will mention below.

I started after my divorce on Blackpeoplemeet and have met some nice men on there. I have also met a thief and someone who said they were a Doctor and was actually an inpatient in the psychiatric ward of a hospital. So I ask a lot of questions and I want to meet their friends, family and get work numbers and other things I can verify right away. The inconsistent information was how I blew the fake Dr.’s cover and the fact that all States have licensing websites so you can check if some if a licensed Dr., Lawyer, etc. You can also check college sites to see if someone actually was an alumnus of that institution.

I quit eharmony in less than month. Took too long, very few people of color and was not contacted much (mostly by older white men). I do post pictures, mostly performance related ones and some from my modeling portfolio and also state in my profile my race, that I went to Tuskegee and Howard and that I am a Delta. I also state that I am an educator, lawyer and bellydancer. Of course I get the booty call guys who want the bellydancer date (and whatever else) fantasy. But I have had some really sound and progressive convos with regular guys who I contact when I travel.
I do use the sites to make contacts when I travel, particularly if its someplace I have not been before.

I have also (most recently on an IR site) been contacted by men who do not have Black on their preferences and sometimes I call them on it and other times I just delete them. I have called men who contact me wanting a submissive woman ( I am a lawyer WTF??) wanting someone quiet (umm yeah right), smaller or clearly has not read my profile at ALL and just contacted me and has NOTHING in common with me. Oh, or they have 5-10 kids (and with all that child support guess who they will end up living with/on?)

I have recently found InterRacialDatingCentral.com and like the quality of people that are on there, in fact reconnected with a good friend locally. I actually did this because of you all on this site. I felt rather hypocritical feeling closed to some aspects of IR dating, but writing things very different. So, I am coming out of my comfort zone and seeking to meet men outside my race. I will write more about it later, I’m sure.

Signed up with Plentyoffish, but haven’t had time to fool with it much. I am Christian, but stay off the Christian sites because, I have found the men to not be politically progressive and they have issues with a pro-choice, born again Christian woman who bellydances, drinks and does divorces for a living.
Noir 72, you sound cool to me, I would talk to you! I don’t like thuggy brothers—can’t take em nowhere, can’t pay my mortgage, don’t have a tuxedo for the Inaugural Balls, can’t code switch from ebonics to standard English in order to network and think I’m bourgie.
I really like this topic!

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 11:37 am ¶
Miss Max wrote:

My experiences have been generally positive but I know race is playing a role in the matches I get. For one there seems to be not as many minorities on such sites (I’m using OKCupid as my reference), so that narrows the pool. Then you have people’s perceptions and assumptions about you based on your picture.

On OKCupid, you have the option of filtering out matches by race (and religion) but the site itself recommends against it. I sympathize with Ike and wonder if that same phenomenon applies to black women as well.

I was tempted to select for a race preference in order to filter out those who aren’t anti-racist (or at the very least aware of certain issues) but I decided not to, and let my picture filter out all the possible racists. Like someone said earlier, if some one is going to discount me because of my race I don’t want to meet them anyway.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 11:59 am ¶
Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

If you want to see some of the most racist, blantantly prejudiced ads just visit some of the Muslim matrimonial sites. I’m shocked by some of the things people are saying.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 12:24 pm ¶
Leigh wrote:

Its funny that you posted this because I joined POF and I’ve been messaging this one guy for awhile and last night we were chatting on MSN. He sent me his picture and it was completely different from the description on his profile! He actually lied about his race. That was a huge turn-off for me. I asked him why he lied and he said that he didn’t think I’d be interested in him if I knew that he was South East Asian. I’m still in shock about it.

Though I did have someone message me because he had a fetish for chubby mixed girls such as myself. Sigh. I hate dating.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 12:56 pm ¶
octogalore wrote:

Like the Asian guy you quote above, I think it’s fine to have preferences based on physical characteristics but not based on race. For example, if there were a race of all blond, blue eyed guys I would likely not date anyone of that race but not per se b/c of the race but b/c I like a darker look, either Jewish, Italian, black Irish, Black, Latino, etc. But if someone of any race whatsoever fit the physical stats, no worries.

Also because I like a guy to have 6″ and 50lb on me, I’ve dated more white, black, Latino guys and fewer Asian guys and pretty much no Nordic guys, but would make no distinctions among 6′ 175lb guys with dark hair and big shoulders of any race, leaving personalities aside.

Not that this is laudable — but I think often it’s superficiality rather than venality.

That said, in many cases it’s definitely about race. I have a very hot black male friend whom I encouraged to go on a particular dating site, but has not been having much luck. He is so attractive that he has zero problems picking up the most attractive woman in any bar, so the result is that he has been having a lot of one-nighters with actress-model-wannabes and not finding “the one” which is his longer term goal and why he is hoping to find someone he can get to know first.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 4:33 pm ¶
Joanna wrote:

Sometimes lack of choice works out well. When I signed up on Match.com (I didn’t know where else to look), there were so few women seeking women that I literally had time to look at all of their profiles in one night. As far as I can remember, me and one other woman were the only ones who explicitly identified as mixed race. Anyway, I signed up for a free 3-day trial and ended up messaging back and forth with 2 different women during those 3 days. One of them (that mixed race lady) has been my girlfriend for 3 years and I just moved in with her!

By the way, I didn’t express any sort of racial preferences and didn’t experience any racist behaviors that I’m aware of. Upon looking at people’s profiles, I would say that race and ethnicity played a factor, but only as much as other factors such as occupation, interests, wit, writing style, and attractiveness. When looking for someone I could have good conversations to and relate to well, I did pay attention to what they wrote in the “race/ethnicity” box because it could be potentially something we could connect around.

Another side note is that a while before that, I had a Match.com profile set up as a woman seeking men. First of all, I got TONS more unsolicited hits from men than I did when I switched it to women. Most of the attention I got on there was from older white men. (I’m mixed Asian/white.) Even though I had a preferred age range (21-29 or something… I was 22), men in their 30s and 40s were not shy about contacting me. What’s up with that?

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 4:38 pm ¶
lizriz wrote:

First of all, who the heck gets to a phone call on eHarmony without seeing a picture??? That’s total BS.

Second of all, when it comes to dating and romance, you can only date people you are attracted to, no matter what the reasons. There’s simply nothing to be done about that.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 7:30 pm ¶
Medusa wrote:

I am simultaneously horrified and relieved at this thread. Relieved that I’m not the only black woman (or person of color at all) to have gone through this when I briefly tried online dating, and horrified that we all receive this kind of treatment. My experiences reflect a lot of yours, in some cases, word for word.

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 8:21 pm ¶
kerrita k wrote:

don’t our experiences bear witness to the truth that we as a country ARE NOT POST RACE!? if i hear it one more time as i look at a 76% (not) match on match.com i’ll go nuts! but by myself – i live in the middle of nowhere! ;0)

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 10:42 pm ¶
dalia wrote:

when i was online, i’d see the profiles of many many guys who were just my type: slightly geeky, sharp wit, intelligent, into alternative scenes, liked music and dining out, arts and culture, blablabla… and then it would get to the racial/appearance preferences part. if there were check boxes, they would select every race but black. pacific islanders, native american, mediterranean, east asian, south asian, asian, on and on… EVERY box. except black.

i would tell my friends how disheartening it was not even to be the last pick. i could have met every other criterion but because i’m black, i was undesirable.

very depressing.

while i wasn’t particularly interested in being someone’s “first” black girl (those who were race curious), i did eventually meet a few people who “didn’t mind” (my words, not theirs) that i wasn’t blonde, or fair skinned.

i always put my race in my ads, and when i can, i include my pic… i’d really rather just put it all on the table than get my hopes up and have someone go “oh, you’re black? sorry… i don’t do black girls…”

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 11:03 pm ¶
genq10 wrote:

I actually live in fear that, as I get older, I will be forced to resort to online dating. Not that these prejudices are not reflected in the real world (and by “these prejudices, I mean the “white equals right” belief that the vast majority of people-regardless of race-seem to espouse), but because at least when you meet and talk to people face-to-face, the small intangibles that make up the larger formation of attraction come into play, and people sometimes end up becoming attracted to a person they had no idea they ever would be attracted to. Plus, internet interaction seems so hallow and–no offense to internet daters–TRULY pathetic. What kind of world are we living in when we cannot interact with each other?

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 11:04 pm ¶
genq10 wrote:

*in person (I should say)

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 11:05 pm ¶
dalia wrote:

ps : octogalore, introduce me to your friend! lol

kidding, but three months ago i’d have been as serious as a heart attack

happily involved now… he approached me. he’s never dated a black woman before, but thought i was just s’darn cute that he had to make a move!

Posted 11 Dec 2008 at 11:07 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“My experiences reflect a lot of yours, in some cases, word for word.”

Care to elaborate? It’s quite cathartic….

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 1:12 am ¶
raafi wrote:

This is from an interview with the authors of Freakonomics, similar stats cited in the book:

The white men who said that race didn’t matter sent ninety percent of their email queries to white women. The white women who said race didn’t matter sent about ninety-seven percent of their email queries to white men. It’s possible, of course, that race really didn’t matter for these white women and men, and that they simply never happened to browse a non-white date that interested them. Or, more likely, they said that race didn’t matter because they wanted to come across — especially to potential mates of their own race — as open-minded.

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 2:22 am ¶
Ishtar wrote:

This is such an interesting article and the responses are fascinating and illuminating.

My own online dating experiences have been varied and for now any way, I’ve given up on the dating and stick to chat only. I met my ex online and he turned out to be a true-blue psychopath so that put me off online dating needless to say.

However, in chatting online I come across the race issue fairly often. Being a mixed-race South African who looks Indian I’m often asked if I’m Indian. My pic is in my online profile and nearly all the white men who approach me ask my race or just assume I’m Indian.

Most times I think it’s so that they can “categorise” me – a way for them to think they know what to expect from me. Other times it’s because they have the “dark-skinned woman” fantasy. I shut down the latter lightning fast – I don’t have time for that crap.

As for the former, I point out that I don’t answer questions about my race as I think the topic is irrelevant to the conversation. Some of them actually get upset at that, even insisting that I should answer – they get shut down very quickly too.

The responses I’ve had are fairly evenly spread across racial lines but I definitely get the most questions about race from white men. That’s irritating but not suprising – I get those same questions in real life too.

As for stating racial preferences online – I’d rather know upfront so I don’t waste any time on those guys. However I admit the tone of some of the ads is quite insulting and arrogant (whether the writer realises it or not).

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 4:30 am ¶
DivergentDana wrote:

“don’t our experiences bear witness to the truth that we as a country ARE NOT POST RACE!?”

Most definitely. Wonder who all of those self-professed “colorblind” people are dating?

And raafi, that’s why I’m a bit confused by some of the posts here. Widespread consensus seems to be that people should lie about their preferences like the folks in the study.

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 11:45 am ¶
natacha wrote:

Funny. A couple weeks ago I posted an ad on Craigslist looking for a salsa dance partner. After exchanging a few emails from an Indian gentleman I forwarded my picture. His instant response? “Do you like hip hop?” I had to laugh even though I wasn’t amused. You may have guessed, I’m Black (Haitian really).

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 1:49 pm ¶
Chris wrote:

Basically what I’ve found from online dating is that it doesn’t matter if you share the same interests, are educated, and don’t have baggage, what most people see first is color. It’s basically the “Ace of Spades” in online dating. It’s the trump card in a stacked deck. Basically I think online dating is a total waste of my time now. I won’t waste any more money on it in the future.

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 5:34 pm ¶
Leigh wrote:

@ Ishtar- I can relate completely!

I too am a mixed South African woman and just today I had someone online message me and asked me what i was mixed with. I told him paint and then blocked him. I hate that question so much. Why do people think that is an appropriate question to ask someone?

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 6:58 pm ¶
kerrita k wrote:

this topic is still swimming around in my head.
i was also thinking about a post a few weeks ago where the woman “feels” and understands racism, even when covert. while we all have preferences, i *know* when i am being treated like a fetish object. when the glare is my own i test myself about the potential partner:
1. i *know* when my preferences are about someone else’s story of attraction rather than my own. [so and so type always treats a girl...] or
2. i wonder what those people’s story of sexuality is? [person as object rather than subject of my desire] and
3. if i closed my eyes and just interacted with them, just sat and listened or sat quietly would the attraction still be there? [no filters like appearance, just attraction to the innards].
that seems to make the difference to me between treating people like fetishes or like well rounded people.

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 10:38 pm ¶
Kaonashi wrote:

I’ve never done the online dating thing (but like everyone else has friends who have) but I think of it as a screener; A person listing racial preferences in general would NOT be the person for me, period. I would be more open to someone who stated that they didn’t have preferences at all than someone saying “I prefer to hear from [race x] people” even if we’re both the same race; a person who would be that specific about who they date would probably not share my ideas about other things as well. No big loss there.

Posted 12 Dec 2008 at 11:45 pm ¶
Mike wrote:

I’ve dated online and talked on the phone with many girls(Of all races).
Now I haven’t used sites like eHarmony cause
I think places like that just aren’t worth my time.
I rather meet someone in a random chat room,Or over a Social Networking site like myspace .
Makes it easier when your not just being told you are best matched with a person you have never talked to before.
All im saying is forget stuff like eHarmony the internet is vast and full of other places to meet people online.

Posted 13 Dec 2008 at 4:40 am ¶
Celeste wrote:

@Mike: Hey, slow down there with the eHarmony bashing. Yes Dr. Clarke is a bit of a tool. However, I met my husband through eHarmony (we lived 1.5 miles away from each other). Best $150 I ever spent.

Posted 13 Dec 2008 at 5:29 pm ¶
Sasha wrote:

Has anyone had any positive feedback from Afro-Romance dating site? I’ve been on and off that site for a few months but nothing off-line…

Posted 13 Dec 2008 at 11:29 pm ¶
octogalore wrote:

Dalia — if you were still single, and for anyone here who is single, female and in LA, I’d be happy to. Let me know!

Posted 14 Dec 2008 at 12:19 am ¶
Emmeaki wrote:

I always use a picture in my online profile, so anyone who contacts me or responds to me will know I’m black off the bat!

It is a sometimes frustrating when so many men of all races seem to want a woman of any race/ethnicity except a black woman–black men included. I even saw this in the profile of an Indian dude whose profile was on afroromance.com!

I am a black woman in my 30’s who has never been married, with no kids, and no drama and I think I’d be a good catch by anyone’s standards. I’m not a stereotype, I’m a human being and “black” isn’t the only thing that defines who I am.

I don’t have a racial/ethnic preference and I wish all people were open to giving anyone a chance if they were attractive and had similar things in common. Of course to a racist, certain features will never be considered attractive to them, so what can you do?

Posted 14 Dec 2008 at 10:16 pm ¶
Ishtar wrote:

@ Leigh

Mixed with paint! Classic – I love it! Please may I use that line too?

It’s a relief to find others who experience the same irritation as I do with that kind of crap. There were times when I thought I was making too big a deal of it but then I realised that the questions about race really bugged me and I shouldn’t have to pretend otherwise.

Posted 15 Dec 2008 at 2:24 am ¶
blaster wrote:

Two quick thoughts as a mixed race (Black and Near Eastern) man:

1. People say they have “racial preferences” but I find many who assert them don’t really mean it. Examples? People say they’re into “whites” and then they end up liking “INSERT ETHNIC FEATURE HERE” because it’s (we’re) “exotic.” I know this because I’m fair skinned and I deal with white people commenting on my hair (which is long and locked) all the time.

So I think people fail to recognize that there is a hell of a lot of variation on a hell of a lot of features within a group, so your preference tends to be BS. If you think you prefer “white” but are looking for someone who has what are ethnic, non-european features, you need to reevaluate what “white” means to you, because it may be race, it may be skin color, or it may be class, level of education, etc. etc. which too many people seem to complaint (hard to blame them when society encourages such racist conflation)

2. As a mixed race man who occasionally deals with people thinking he may be white (which actually stopped happening when I let my hair grow beyond 1/4″, but that’s a different story) I use okcupid, and like the fact that I can post my picture, and my race, and never have to deal with stares and “what are you?” questions. People know my background and see my features up front, and that saves me time.

But I still do have to deal with people who fetishize me for being exotic, but that’s easy enough, I think.

Posted 15 Dec 2008 at 2:40 am ¶
Myles wrote:

I have no idea of where to begin. But I’ve had this conversation before:

Random Net Person: What are you mixed with?

Me: Oh, why do you ask?

RNP: I was just wondering.

Me: Oh, okay, so (back to topic we were just on)

RNP: So you aren’t going to tell me?

Me: Does it really matter?

And then the RNP doesn’t message me ever again.

I wonder how I would feel if they just said:

“Your racial background completely determines if I will continue to talk to you.”

Eh, but even when I tell them what my background is they usually end up telling me that I wasn’t what they were expecting if they see a pic of me.

u.u

Posted 15 Dec 2008 at 5:55 pm ¶
girl wrote:

Ok, first of all, I don’t really know anything about Internet dating so if any of my comments sound ridiculous, forgive me.

And here’s my 2 cent. In my opinion, many of the people using internet dating are looking for someone that is, in their opinion, the “perfect person” . They also have unrealistic expectations and simply list the qualities they want in a person like they’re ordering something at a deli. Some of these guys will say they want a woman who is in her early 20s, 5′7”, 120lbs, rich, and has D cup breasts. She most likely doesn’t exist, or exists in very small numbers. And the women who fit that description usually aren’t online dating anyways, which is why the men who SAY they want such a woman usually end up dating someone who doesn’t quite fit their description and are perfectly happy about it.

In my opinion, the people online who say they only want to date a person of a specific ethnic group do so because they THINK that is their preference. They are basically falling back on stereotypes. But often time, these people will change their mind when they meet a GREAT person of another ethnic group. And that is the problem with online dating. When you’re not meeting the person face to face, you’re basically depriving yourself of the chance of knowing someone different and therefore you can only rely on what you THINK you want in the opposite sex.

Growing up, I never thought I’d be attracted to anyone middle-eastern. It wasn’t because I’m prejudiced against middle-easterners but because it just never occurred to me that I’d ever feel sexual attraction for someone of that ethnic group. I hadn’t met many ppl of that ethnic group so what the heck did I know of them? Then in college, I met this guy who WAS of middle-eastern heritage and I amazed myself when I thought “WOW he is smokin’ hawt!”

Posted 17 Dec 2008 at 8:19 am ¶
Anonymous wrote:

I think it depends on which service you sign up with. I use OkCupid.com—they don’t have a section for putting in ethnic preference, which is good, I guess. It IS pretty much 90% white though.

Posted 17 Dec 2008 at 5:47 pm ¶
Jen wrote:

#20 – Ali “I find that most guys have more discriminating taste in body type than race or ethnicity.”

I find this too. I’m a light-skinned African-Canadian woman, but I have had less trouble meeting men online than my less-toned, blonde-haired/blue-eyed friend, and I think I know the reason for it: one word: ABS. Men will always be more influenced by the Pussycat Dolls than they will be by race.

Go figure.

Posted 28 Dec 2008 at 1:22 am ¶