The Racialicious Roundtable For Heroes 3.9
Hosted by Arturo R. García
The word has come down from Tim Kring’s ivory tower: It’s our fault Heroes has been stinking up the joint this season.
More specifically, those of us who own and actually use our DVRs. The show’s creator bemoaned the state of serialized storytelling at a screenwriters’ gathering earlier this month, because the new technology, by his reasoning, makes us dumber. Here’s a portion of his remarks:
“The engine that drove [serialized TV] was you had to be in front of the TV [when it aired]. Now you can watch it when you want, where you want, how you want to watch it, and almost all of those ways are superior to watching it on air. So [watching it] on air is related to the saps and the dips**s who can’t figure out how to watch it in a superior way.”
Yours truly is too poor and stupid to afford DVR, so I don’t understand all that fancy talk like “dips**t.” Does his excuse hold water? That’s just one of the subjects we tackle in this week’s installment of the Roundtable. Let’s get to it!
Re: Usutu. I was about to say, let’s quit while we’re ahead (nyuk nyuk) when I read an interview with writers/producers Joe Pokaski and Aron Coliete mentioning him while discussing “The Charlie Argument.” I’ll post their words here:
“This is always a tough [argument] for us, whether or not to kill a character. It all generally reverts back into what we call ‘The Charlie Argument.’ While we often hear from fans, executives, or even actors how we shouldn’t have killed her off, most of us believe that the reason she was such a successful character is because she didn’t overstay her welcome. We miss her because she left us wanting more. The German and Stephen Canfield certainly fall into that category – as for Usutu, we haven’t seen the last of him.”
So, how do you feel about seeing Usutu playing the Ghost of, what, Plot Devices Future?
Clara: If Usutu is just a plot device, than I will be very angry. As far as I can tell, that’s what he is– he’s only there to assist the other characters in all matters plot-fully convenient. He doesn’t even have to be alive! All he has to do is hop around in their dreams! I know we talk a lot about how the writers are very willing to write in ways to bring characters (mostly the white male ones) back to life, and I’m anticipating some people pointing to Usutu as one example of a nonwhite character being brought back. I disagree with that, because Usutu wasn’t brought back to life as his own character. He’s just there to help out the characters. He still doesn’t seem to have a history or motivations of his own. Tsk tsk, Heroes writers.
I’m sick of this Usutu As A Guardian Angel business. Now, if Usutu willingly steered a character towards a bad path, if he intentionally gave them the wrong advice, that would be interesting!
Mahsino: I gotta go with Clara on this – it would be awesome if Usutu were steering characters to his whim postmortem seeing as he was basically the Guardian Angel/Haitian 2.0 when he was alive. Then again, it would be annoying if he could only get a personality after death. I dunno, I just hate ghost like characters in shows (I’m looking’ at you too, Grey’s Anatomy).
Back in the land of the living, Hiro and Ando are back to square one, it seems. But here’s a theory, as introduced in the recap thread: it’s because of Hiro’s forced juvenile attitude that he and Ando come to odds as we saw in that alternate timeline, forcing Ando to strike him down. Discuss. Otherwise, where do you think this is going?
Hexy: I really saw what they were trying to do with age-regressive Hiro. His season-one uninhibited joy at his unfolding powers was fun to watch, and his experimentations with his new talent provided some much-needed levity amongst everyone else’s angst. Spending one season-three episode re-visiting that after two seasons of character development should have been an easy win for the viewers, and should have prompted nostalgia and fondness. The problem? There hasn’t BEEN two seasons of character development. It wasn’t nostalgic, it was annoying and overdone. Ideally, this will be our last glimpse of that early, wide-eyed Hiro, presented for us to say goodbye to before he finally moves grows up and gets serious.
As for Ando: what on earth was with his “I have ninja skills” jump attack at Pa Petrelli?
Clara: I wanted to throw things when Hiro regressed into a 10 year old. He already acted much like a child, with his overly cute antics and all his ambitions to be a hero. And then he literally becomes a child. I’m sure the writers thought they were being oh so clever.
My predictions: Ando continues to teach Hiro how to use his powers. Hiro, being the 10 year old he is, brags constantly about. Okay, he bragged about it before, but this time, it is without the responsibility that Hiro took upon himself before. He brags about it because he’s a bratty 10 year old. Ando becomes jealous at having this shoved in his face, and starts wishing for powers. OH LOOK OVER THERE, it’s Pinehearst, with a formula ready! Ando seeks out Arthur Petrelli, who commands Mohinder to shoot Ando up. Ando receives his powers and decides to split from Hiro. Without Ando, Hiro is forced to grow up and live on his own. When they finally have their confrontation, Ando kills Hiro, as Hiro before had seen in the future.
Mahsino: Hiro is seeming a lot like a Japanese minstrel show. It’s really bad. I mean it’s like he’s a live-action anime character with no real depth. That’s all I have to say about that.
Sylar and Elle. Contrived romantic subplot or fan-service for the kids too old for the “Twilight” books?
Clara: I thought the whole empathy thing was interesting, and I do like that the writers harnessed it for Sylar’s character development. And Sylar did grow from learning how to take powers not by slicing heads open, but by empathizing. However, mixing it with sexual tension really cheapens the growth Sylar achieved. I guess framing empathy in a romantic context makes it more appealing, but come on, wouldn’t it still be meaningful if Sylar had been able to empathize with a stranger? Like, a little kid? Or someone he didn’t know with a tragic past?
But ugh, I saw the Sylar/Elle romance plotline coming even before I started watching the episode. Heroes is practically becoming a soap opera now. Everyone’s hooking up with or having sexual tension everyone else!
Also, did anyone else roll their eyes when only Sylar’s shirt got zapped off, and not his pants? Uh huh, right…
Mahsino: Yeah, that. They can stop with the forced romance- and while we’re on the topic this pseudo-incestuous relationship between Claire and Peter can stop any time now. I’m waiting for them to find out Peter was adopted or something just so the producers can have a reason for them to have a love scene. Back to Sylar and Elle, on the plus side, at least we know who is future baby-mama was. On one of the many minus sides: logic (which I know I shouldn’t apply to this show) tells me you can’t cure a psychopath, which Elle supposedly was. I’m not really into her as this damsel in distress who needs a man to bring her back to sanity. Plus she was already a meh character to me, so hookin’ her up with a character who I used to like, but who has since been reduced to a whiny emo kid with mommy and daddy issues, isn’t helping the show any.
And yeah, it would have been meaningful if Sylar had been able to empathize with a stranger, but that would’ve made sense, which clearly the writers are developing an allergic reaction to.
Hexy: I hate what they’ve done to Elle. I really, really, really hate it. She was one of the few female characters who was unabashedly villainous and fucked up. Her issues made perfect sense in the context of the back story they gave her, and I don’t see that in this new retconned version. In a way, I like that Sylar is the one she’s latched onto, because it’s nice and twisted that her love interest should be her father’s murderer, and it would have been too easy to give Ms Daddy Issues a Daddy substitute… but it still feels contrived.
Looking ahead a bit to the next volume, “Fugitives”: in that appearance at the Screenwriters’ Expo , Tim Kring said we can expect see characters “returning to civilian lives.” Assuming this damn show isn’t canceled by then, forcing *everyone* to return to civilian life, what jobs would you like to see these folks settle into?
Mahsino: I’d like to see Claire go back to school- seriously, how have they not sent a truancy officer after her? I’d like to know how, or if, Matt is still a cop- if so I’m gonna need serious explanation. I’d like to know where Molly is if Mohinder is at Pinehearst and Matt has been “somewhere in Africa”. In this economy, shouldn’t the employees of Hiro’s company be wondering where the CEO is, or is his sister holdin’ down the fort? It’s not what jobs I’d like to see them settle into, I’d like to know what kind of magical careers these “everyday people” have so I can switch majors.
Clara: Claire should get back to earning her damn high school diploma, for one. Parkman will work at a tortoise wildlife reserve. Hiro can be a CEO again. I’d like to see Elle as an artist for some reason; I guess her craziness would probably make for interesting artist expressions. I feel like the Petrelli’s will turn into the mafia. They kind of already are a mafia-like organization though…
Hexy: Going back to the days before we all got jaded and cranky about the future of Heroes, I thought DL becoming a firefighter was a stroke of genius. Unrealistic genius, as he really didn’t have time to become a firefighter by any legitimate means, but a good flash of what “ordinary people with extraordinary powers” could look like.
Open mic! Share your predictions regarding next week’s Eclipse (btw, looks like we’ve got a two-parter coming up. SRS BZNS, as the kids say.)
Mahsino: Sooooo, the only people watching a show — “Heroes” perhaps — at the time it’s being broadcast by a network — say NBC — are the “saps and [expletives] who can’t figure out how to watch it in a superior way.” You hear that? The reason the show has been sucking these past few seasons is because people don’t watch them at original air time. But wait a second, Mr. Kring- I’ve been watching it at original 9pm est (the superior way). I’m gonna need a better excuse than that.
Clara: I’ll be honest, I didn’t like this episode at all. Maybe I’m just cynical, but it was one huge eyeroll from beginning to end.
And next, WARNING, SPOILERS FROM 3X10 PREVIEW: I feel like the “taking away the heroes’ powers” plot line was something scraped from the bottom of the ideas bag. I don’t know, it seems like a gimmick that the show would feature sooner or later. It’s just not very original to me. I imagine that the behind the scenes planning went something like, “Oh look the heroes are taking their powers for granted! Let’s see what happens when they don’t have them and are forced to learn to appreciate what they had! Brilliant!”
At the same time, I think this plot has the potential to take the show in interesting directions, and I’m looking forward to watching it!
Previously: Racialicious Heroes Archive.
Images & Character bios courtesy of HeroesWiki
Editor’s Note: The discussion of last night’s heroes will be posted first thing tomorrow morning.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
Mr. Noface wrote:
So I broke my vow to never watch this show again and I must say I wish I hadn’t. About 15 minutes into the show I found myself doing other things, so the show just ended up being background noise. I did catch bits and pieces though. Like, Mohinder being normal again (because of the eclipse I guess) or that speedster chick needing the leg braces when she doesn’t have her powers (that was kind of a nice twist) or that Nathan finally told peter (what I feel many of the viewers had to have been thinking for the longest time) was a whiney brat that was only special because of his powers. Those were really the only things that piqued my interest throughout the entire episode. I found myself no longer caring about characters that I was really rooting for in season one. Claire getting shot and bleeding out didn’t do anything for me (I felt like, if she dies…good…if she doesn’t…no surprise). Mohinder finally realizing that he is in with the wrong people (AGAIN), didn’t have the same punch as it did the first two times. Hiro is an idiot and Parkman is absolutely useless (not as much as Claire it turns out). Ha, I don’t even care about the character devlopment that The Haitian is getting all of a sudden (too little too late for me, sorry).
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 12:21 pm ¶
Lola wrote:
I also tuned out about 5 minutes into it and felt like I missed nothing
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 12:24 pm ¶
Renee wrote:
Watching Mohinder once again find out he was working for the bad guys was tired and old. How many times does a brilliant scientist make the same mistake. Seriously where did he get his Ph D that he managed to remain so overwhelmingly dumb?
The love affair between Sylar and Elle is cheap and need to end before it makes me even more ill. I find myself just tuning out of the scenes that these two are in together. It is a purely high school tactic that seems there to keep the attention of the wee ones…Don’t they have 90210 for that kind of crap?
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
So having DVR, watching it on a delay [and scrapping the commercials] makes the show worse?
I’ve watched in real time before – there wasn’t any special gift that I got for sitting through the commercials.
That’s the most nonsensical thing I’ve ever heard. No wonder the shows devolving into stoopid – Tim Kring has lost the power to reason.
I’m just ready for your recap of last night’s epi.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 1:26 pm ¶
Peter Pixie wrote:
I WANT this show to be good.
I wish it was my super hero ability.
However, it isnt.
Im watching this show for the train wrecks now.
This means that no matter even if it suddenly did something brilliant, they’ve passed over to ‘that must have been a mistake.’
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 1:46 pm ¶
Niki wrote:
If there was a metaphor for what “Heroes” has become this season, I would liken the show to a rock band who had a debut album met with critical and popular acclaim, but has grown so terrified and annoyed with their fame, that they want to “alienate” their fanbase with their next album so they can start fresh.
That’s my only explaination as to how nonsensical the show has been getting lately. It still occasionally has its moments, so hopefully the show cleans it act up or they will end up axed (I’m mad that ABC cancelled “Dirty Sexy Money” and “Pushing Daisies” two of the more original shows on network TV)
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 1:49 pm ¶
Arturo wrote:
One thing Kring did say was that he originally planned for a rotating cast of characters, and didn’t anticipate America going nuts over the Benetrellis, Hiro, Mohinder 1.0, et al. So Niki’s rock-band analogy does make some sense.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 2:02 pm ¶
Mary wrote:
I’ve hit the point where I would rather they just film Masi Oka and Sendhil Ramamurthy chatting over lunch, than watch those two forced to act out the mutilation of their characters.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 2:48 pm ¶
Madame Zenobia wrote:
We miss her because she left us wanting more. The German and Stephen Canfield
Ummm, no. Charlie was memorable and likeable, the German? a caricature that annoyed more than anything.
@ Clara, as for your Ando predictions…I can only hope.
@ Moschino, I agree. Hiro IS something of a minstrel. This regression is horrible; and the only good that can come of it is Ando turning into a badass. I really like the actor now.
However, mixing it with sexual tension really cheapens the growth Sylar achieved. I guess framing empathy in a romantic context makes it more appealing, but come on, wouldn’t it still be meaningful if Sylar had been able to empathize with a stranger? Like, a little kid? Or someone he didn’t know with a tragic past?
I’m enjoying watching Sylar more than I have at any other time during this saga. I agree, the romantic twist is for the fangirls, but would’ve, could’ve worked better (this framing of his empathetic growth) with the scenario you present here.
As for Sylar and the losing of his shirt during the electrical-fry session Elle gave him, I kept wanting him to break out into A Chorus Line.
I mean, him crawling around on the floor screamed FOSSE!!! 
And yeah, it would have been meaningful if Sylar had been able to empathize with a stranger, but that would’ve made sense, which clearly the writers are developing an allergic reaction to.
So true.
Assuming this damn show isn’t canceled by then, forcing *everyone* to return to civilian life, what jobs would you like to see these folks settle into?
Claire – go back to school; go be a cheerleader…as a matter of fact, take a total hiatus from the show. (she annoys me to no end)
Mohinder – chronicle your transformation into a bug into a best-selling novel and go on a booktour. So sick of him being a ’scientist’ always jabbing a computer keyboard and staring at weird graphics while spouting inane lines like, “Sylar killed my father” for the hundreth-twentieth-eleventh time.
Nathan – RESIGN. Go back to being a lawyer and leave the politics ALONE. I cringed when he mentioned being a Senator all pompousy and stuff last night. SHUT UP with that shyt!
Peter – go back to being a nurse and stop making googly-face with your niece. DATE GROWN WOMEN (or men…something tells me Pete might swing both ways being all empathetic and all).
Gabriel – marry Elle and move to the midwest to never be heard from again…
Matt – do the cop thing; just do it and work on your dyslexia.
Daphne – fade back into the pre-existence you had before you joined the cast.
Hiro – go be a businessman! run your father’s company or let Ando do it while you open a comic bookstore or something.
Ando – see above
Niki/Jessica/Tracy/Girl 6 – go find Micah and be a mother/aunt/family relative twice-removed to this youngster.
Angela – Macrame!!! It’s fun!
Arthur – Golf! Buy a course or a country club and work out your need to take over the world via golf. The game itself mimics the journey of life; you can do this on the daily without taking it out your urges on anyone…just the grass maybe.
Bennett – Buy new glasses! Buy out Kopy Mart and be with your family.
***did I cover everyone? I hope LOL
thoughts on next week’s episode:
The preview showed Claire seizing on a gurney.
*blank stare*
That’s it. I don’t know how much more I can ‘draw’ from that? I mean, does this mean Nathan will lose his bowels? Peter lose his sight? the Haitian, lose his ability to think clearly and spout wisdom in that poetic tone of his? What?
It’s a crap shoot—this entire season is. I have NO expectations. And though I wanted to toss my TV out the window (again) after last night’s eppy, I didn’t (it’s a Sony and cost me a mint) and most likely I’ll be watching again on next Monday. *sigh*
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:17 pm ¶
Madame Zenobia wrote:
or that Nathan finally told peter (what I feel many of the viewers had to have been thinking for the longest time) was a whiney brat that was only special because of his powers.
@ Mr. Noface,
I agree, that was a good scene. So glad to see Nathan/Adrian show some fire! some spunk! some bitchassedness!
And he’s right. I’m so sick of Peter being whiny all the time; must prefer the future-Peter, as he’s something more of an ass, but still whiny all the same. 
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:19 pm ¶
Madame Zenobia wrote:
So having DVR, watching it on a delay [and scrapping the commercials] makes the show worse?
Kring is a f*cking IDIOT.
I watched Season 1, at the behest of a good friend of mine who did nothing but scream this show’s praises, a year after it premiered. I watched it in the comfort of my home, sans commercials and guess what? FELL IN LOVE WITH THE SHOW.
Guess what also?
This is how I came to love the following television shows: 24, Alias, Arrested Development, Profit (shoutout to Adrian Pasdar ha ha), The Black Donnellys, etc.
I LOVE TV WITHOUT COMMERCIALS. And viewing this way, makes me crave the next episode even more (provided it’s a good series). WTF does he mean scrapping commercials makes it worse? This is obviously the case of someone talking out of their ass. Literally.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:24 pm ¶
Madame Zenobia wrote:
If there was a metaphor for what “Heroes” has become this season, I would liken the show to a rock band who had a debut album met with critical and popular acclaim, but has grown so terrified and annoyed with their fame, that they want to “alienate” their fanbase with their next album so they can start fresh.
@ Niki,
I don’t know why, but I thought of The Killers (Hot Fuss & Samstown) for some reason here.
But great analogy.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:26 pm ¶
Madame Zenobia wrote:
One thing Kring did say was that he originally planned for a rotating cast of characters, and didn’t anticipate America going nuts over the Benetrellis, Hiro, Mohinder 1.0, et al. So Niki’s rock-band analogy does make some sense.
Yes. But he established key characters so well in Season 1. How can America ‘not’ want for these people? I’m not totally siding with the fanheads of the Benetrellis…trust, I’ve grown tired of their continual push to the forefront. Rotating characters is good, but when he rotates them, ups them just to support these two DYNASTIES *hurl* I just can’t take it. You all have posted before over the other ‘families’ in this show and how great the stories were there. Why not introduce NEW families, too? who are just as evil, just as diabolical… This will be in keeping with his original plans. Instead, what we have is the Colbys vs. the Carringtons circa 2008.
***to the admins/site owners. I don’t mean to post so much on Heroes, it’s just that this place I find is the perfect forum for me to rant and rave about the show because you guys look to the same issues as I do. LOL I didn’t mean to spam this comment thread, but really wanted to respond to the statements listed.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:31 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
forgot to mention – Mahsino – I am totally feeling you with Grey’s. Why is Denny on the show?? He’s driving it into the dirt!
I am SO not into the ‘dead, but not’ theme.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 3:49 pm ¶
Arturo wrote:
Ok, I don’t want to jump the gun on the next review, but I must tell you: I loved watching HRG beat Sylar’s punk ass to the ground. Jack Bauer wears Noah Bennet pijamas to bed.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 4:08 pm ¶
EvilAngelfish wrote:
I believe Kring is referring to those of us who (used to) watch Heroes when in comes on TV without the aid of DVR (which I can’t afford since I’m paying for things like tuition) as “saps and dips**ts” and people who watch it sans commercials as superior viewers (although he’s still blaming DVR for the decline of the show, which illustrates who the actual dips**t is).
I can’t think of anything more insulting and least likely to get me to give Heroes a 3rd chance than Kring making excuses and blaming viewers for the suckage of this season. Maybe it has something to do with all the lazy characterization, soap opera story lines and fan service?
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 4:14 pm ¶
ieishah wrote:
‘i’m looking at you too grey’s anatomy’
lol! @ jen and mahsino . . . ex-fucking-actly!!! i am so over denny. i mean, seriously? izzy is seriously having a full blown relationship with a ghost? if they really needed to bring somebody back from her past, HOW ‘BOUT HER ABANDONED KID??!!! sheesh!!
as for heroes, who else felt like sylar took the words out of their mouth when he looked at the camera sideways and said, ‘i hate heroes’?
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 7:29 pm ¶
Barbara wrote:
http://io9.com/5091621/what-have-they-done-to-hiro-and-sylar
check out that link regarding “Heroes” and the characterization of Hiro and Sylar. Granted, the author doesn’t go far enough in laying bare all the racial weirdness on the show (nearly mute Haitians and Africans whose names are barely known or not known – 100% “magical negroes”), but I thought the description of Hiro was really damning and compliments the analyses above.
Posted 25 Nov 2008 at 11:20 pm ¶
Ishtar wrote:
@ Madame Zenobia
I loved your comments! Enjoyed every word especially the career suggestions…I’m still chuckling.
Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 1:57 am ¶
thew wrote:
I guess the only good thing that might come from the death of Pushing Daisies is that Bryan Fuller could return to Heroes (he was a producer the first season and wrote two episodes, including Company Man).
Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 2:52 am ¶
Arturo wrote:
Barbara,
Thanks much for the link. Turns out the creative team already has an alibi for Hiro’s current condition. We’ll discuss that in the next Roundtable.
Thew: Agreed. Though, with or without Fuller, something has to be done about this series taking damn near 10 episodes to release one that’s not bad.
Posted 26 Nov 2008 at 12:58 pm ¶
hexy wrote:
Hey, Arturo! You’ve left out a bunch of my answers!
Posted 29 Nov 2008 at 11:54 pm ¶