What’s the Deal with the Green Party?

by Latoya Peterson

It’s the day before November 4th, and it occurs to me that we have not provided much coverage to other candidates outside of Obama. Obama is not the only black candidate in the race – Cynthia McKinney is running at the top of the Green Party ticket and Rosa Clemente – hip-hop activist and Afro-Latina – has been tapped for Vice President.

However, my lack of posting does not mean I have not been paying attention. Jeff Chang posted an interview with Rosa Clemente back in August. (Chang also posted more background on Clemente.)

Q: Talk about the platform. What do you think the Green Party has over the other parties?

This is the only party that even has social justice as its core principle. When we say ending the war, we mean all the wars. We need to get all the military out of every country, we need to begin to deal with issues of what peace can look like, how do you sustain that. Obviously, the green party is at the forefront of pushing the environment as a core value, that was innovative then. There should be an end to imprisoning young people, an immediate stop to the death penalty, a livable wage, not a minimum wage. Impeachment for George Bush and them is critical. I think if we don’t hold them accountable as a people, then anybody can do the same shit that they did.

Words are words, but we can make the words into deeds. If people would even open up the platform, they would see that neither the Democrats and Republicans would even talk about young people having rights and that we should be signing some of these international treaties, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The hardest part is to literally get people to open it up and want to be exposed.

And indeed, looking in the corners of the progressive blogosphere, one can find more and more to like about the Green Party platform.

Cynthia McKinney (along with Barack Obama) took the time to answer the Sanctuary’s Survey on Immigration and the Latino community. John McCain declined. McKinney thoughtfully answered all the questions, but her first answer outlines her entire position:

1. Could you please articulate what you think are the most pressing issues for the U.S. immigrant community, at home AND abroad, and how you would hope to address those issues as President?

One of the most pressing issues for immigrants is the effect of corporate globalization. The so-called “free trade” agreements, NAFTA, CAFTA, Fast Track, the Caribbean FTA, the U.S.-Peru FTA etc., have undermined labor and environmental rights and caused the loss of living-wage jobs both here and abroad. Massive agricultural imports into developing countries have displaced an estimated two million farmers, as subsidized grains from the United States take over their local and regional markets. With few new jobs in manufacturing or other sectors, many of these former farmers now work in fields and low-wage jobs across the U.S.

As a legislator I authored the No Tax Breaks for Runaway Plants bill in Congress; the TRUTH Act, requiring disclosure of the whereabouts of subsidiaries of U.S. corporations operating overseas; and the Corporate Responsibility Act, to force U.S. corporations operating overseas to abide by U.S. environmental and labor standards. As president, I would continue the fight against corporate globalization and require corporations to be held publicly accountable and socially responsible. Global warming is another pressing issue. As islands disappear and indigenous. ways of life are threatened, entire populations are displaced. Food production and water supplies are at risk. The United States can no longer justify denial by blaming weather fluctuations or claiming the science is unclear. We need air, land, water, climate, production and consumption policies that reflect the real limits within which we all must live.

It is impossible to discuss the issue of so-called “illegal immigration” without addressing the reasons millions of people are forced to flee their countries to come to the United States No human being is an “illegal alien.” What is illegal is the way U.S. economic policies treat workers in this country and throughout the world. I support immigration policies that promote fairness, nondiscrimination, and family re-unification, not preferential quotas based on race, class and ideology.

We have not covered much about the McKinney/Clemente ticket, largely because there isn’t much to cover. While we receive daily alerts about the vitriol aimed at the Obamas, we’ve heard nary a peep about McKinney or Clemente in the mainstream media or other sources. Nida Khan, writing for the Women’s Media Center, digs into why their ticket is off the radar:

One would expect McKinney, former congresswoman representing the Fourth CD of Georgia, and Clemente, community organizer, journalist and political activist, to be propelled onto the national stage with the same vigor shown at least to the other third-party candidates. After all, McKinney, who is African American, and Clemente, an Afro-Puerto Rican, are the first ever minority female ticket in U.S. history. So why is it in a time of ‘firsts’ and an election termed the most ‘diverse and progressive’ have so few Americans even heard of McKinney, Clemente or their platform?

“Because we’re women of color, it’s like a double whammy,” explains Clemente. “The corporate, mainstream media has whited us out, but then the so-called progressive media turns around and does the same. When they do choose to talk about a third-party candidate, they still turn to a white male [Ralph Nader]. I can’t explain it, except for the fact that these outlets are still run by white people who don’t give credence to a strong woman of color.”

In fact, coverage of these women’s campaign has been virtually non-existent. In an election cycle consumed with the two-party candidates and their every move, the media has virtually wiped out the notion of a third party. In 2000, consumer advocate and attorney Ralph Nader represented the Green Party and took home some 2.8 million votes or about 2.7 percent of the electorate. Blamed by many for taking votes away from Al Gore, Nader’s success could be tied to the notion that he in fact received decent coverage by both independent and mainstream media. Even today, running as an Independent after losing the Green nomination to McKinney, Nader has appeared on PBS’ News Hour, while Brian Williams has featured a Nader piece on his NBC Nightly News program. He’s been all over the progressive/independent media circuit, while McKinney and Clemente struggle to get their issues heard.

“I don’t expect CNN to do something on us,” says Clemente, who accepted the VP nomination at the Green Party Convention in Chicago in July. “But what has been utterly shocking is the indie media. Most of them have chosen their pick, which is usually Obama, and they end up blocking everyone else out and doing exactly what they say is wrong with mainstream media. In the non-profit world, Obama is progressive. Even if they believe that, they should at least talk about us.”

Reporting that she and McKinney have received more press outside of the country, Clemente highlights appearances the two have made in major outlets like the BBC, Al Jazeera and countless others in Australia, Germany, England, New Zealand and Sweden to name a few. She cites Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now! on WBAI Pacifica, The Truth with Jeff Johnson on BET and Laura Flanders broadcasts on Air America Radio as some of the few media organizations that have allowed her and McKinney to have their voices brought into this all-important election.

At a time when the first African American man is running as a major party candidate for the highest office in the land, could racism and sexism be at play at levels we haven’t even imagined? Are minority women still at the bottom of the totem pole? Or is it McKinney’s strong and vocal stance on controversial issues such as COINTELPRO, 9/11, the Bush administration and racism itself that has removed her from the conversation altogether?

Perhaps it’s a combination of all of the above. Even when corporate news does take note, it’s often in the context of painting McKinney as a left-wing conspiracy theorist out of touch with reality, as the Washington Post did earlier this week.

But not everyone believes that McKinney is out of touch – and in fact, do favor the ticket as being truly transformational. The Progressive published “The McKinney Choice” a piece which grappled with the realities of voting for a Green Party candidate, even if their platform is more appealing to your personal values:

Like Obama, McKinney name-drops Martin Luther King a lot. But whereas Obama constantly utters King’s line about “the fierce urgency of now,” McKinney uses King in a different way. She says “the racial disparities that exist today are worse than at the time of the murder of King.” And she quotes King’s comment that the United States is the “greatest purveyor of violence on the planet,” saying that it is still true today.

McKinney also adopts positions that Obama won’t go near, such as: demanding reparations for African Americans, offering amnesty for all undocumented immigrants, ending “prisons for profit,” and calling off the “war on drugs.”

But having a shiny progressive platform does not guarantee progressive votes. I recall a rule of organizing in the 1988 Jesse Jackson campaign: “Define your own win.” Reason being: If it’s about who has the most money, resources, access, etc., those going against the flow or those who are resource poor will always be sold short. Especially when the powerful set the rules and call the game.

Running was Shirley Chisholm’s win in 1972.

Jackson’s win was successfully advancing a progressive, multiracial, multi-issue agenda.

So what’s McKinney’s win?

She says the Greens want to pick up “5 percent of the national vote” in the coming election with the hope it “confers major party status” on them.

“Then we will have an official third party in this country,” McKinney said in Chicago, “and public policy that truly reflects our values.”

This has been a prevailing theme with the Green Party’s run this year – they are reaching for the five percent of voters which would guarantee them a permanent place on the ballot and public funding.

Adele Nieves recently conducted an interview with Rosa Clemente for ZNet, where Clemente stressed the same need:

Many people are hungry for a third party (or more) in our elections, but are fearful of voting for one because they are convinced their vote won’t count, or will help the Republican Party. While disillusioned with the Democratic Party, they vote the lesser of two evils. What will it take to persuade voters to support a strong third party?

First, I don’t consider it progressive if you blindly accept the Democratic Party. I’m personally not trying to persuade anybody. If you want to be a Republican or a Democrat, that’s fine. I’m trying to get at the 49% who don’t vote; the millions of African American and Latino young people who are not registered to vote. I’m trying to get to the young people who aren’t caught up in the Obama hype. I’m trying to persuade working-class white people who are not caught up in the Republican hype, and have disengaged from the system. So I’m not trying to persuade somebody to vote differently.

As far as the “lesser of two evils,” I think that says it right there. I don’t understand why we have to have an evil, period. Both parties are corporate parties. In every policy that one puts forth, one might be less devastating, but eventually it will hurt you. That’s what we’ve seen with Democrats and Republicans. I don’t think my generation can afford the lesser of any evil at this point.

And, I believe that Clemente is correct. I am aware that posting anything in favor of the Green Party on the eve of the election is a controversial move. Many people still associate the Green Party (and independent candidates, really) with being election spoilers. And since this election is so close, and may very well come down to every last vote, I can hear some people freaking out behind their screens. Obviously, Racialicious has been officially pro-Obama since Super Tuesday. And throughout the campaigning, the revelations, all of that, none of our positions have changed.

However, it is important to remember why we even have a vote in the first place. And that is to allow citizens to have a voice in the political process. Obviously, the system this principle was founded upon was flawed – it took a few amendments to rectify some people who were omitted as citizens, and even to this day voter suppression tactics still loom large over the horizon. I wholeheartedly wish that everyone reading this blog would vote for Obama. But I know, off hand, at least 30 of you reading have identified yourselves as Republicans, and will vote for McCain. That’s fine as well. This is that ugly, messy part of democracy, where two sides argue against each other, search the rules and scour them for loopholes, and finally, one person is elected. Everyone is not supposed to agree. I just hope my side is more persuasive.

However, what troubles me is seeing that people still are not planning to vote. I’ve read blog posts from longtime readers (yes, I read your blogs as well, especially if you have linked here) who can’t bring themselves to support Obama OR McCain. And some of you have decided to stay home on election day.

And that, to me, is the most despicable form of cowardice there is.

If you aren’t satisfied with your voting choices, then you need to advocate for more choices. You need to support candidates you believe in on a write in basis, or even consider running for political office yourself. But not voting should NEVER be an option. Even if you hate everyone on the board, you need to take yourself to the ballot box and vote. People died for your right to exercise this type of direct say in government. So have your say.

If you are voting for Obama, advocate your fucking hearts out today. I just told everyone on my Facebook page that if they didn’t vote, I was disowning them – and I mean that. I’m checking my friends for that “I Voted” sticker. It’s that serious to me.

If you’re voting for McCain, do your thing as well. Obviously, I don’t support your choice, but I respect that it’s your choice to make.

If you are voting for McKinney/Clemente, do not let anyone say that you are throwing your vote away. You are not. If Obama loses this election, it will not be because of who chose to vote for the Green Party – it will be because of those who voted for McCain – or worse, those who chose to stay home.

And if you are even considering staying home on election day, how about this – perform a random act of kindness and vote Green Party. Or Nader. Or other independents. If you hate the two-party system that much, help those who seek to dismantle it.

But apathy is not an option in this election.

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Trackbacks & Pings

  1. gwytherinn.com » I will FINALLY be proud of my vote. on 04 Nov 2008 at 12:11 am

    [...] excited to see that Latoya at Racialicious wrote a great post about the Green Party today – and has quoted and linked to this interview of Clemente by Adele Nieves.: Many people are hungry [...]

  2. My interview with Rosa Clemente (ZNet) « A Book Without A Cover on 04 Nov 2008 at 12:17 am

    [...] News, Green Party of New York State, Greens for Greens, Motown Writers Network, Green Party Watch, Racialious, on the Wilderside, Feministe, Think Girl,  Hispanic [...]

  3. And yes, even now, third party candidates still matter. at AngryBrownButch on 04 Nov 2008 at 1:32 am

    [...] candidates. Latoya Peterson gives us an excellent reminder of that over at Racialicious, asking “What’s the Deal with the Green Party?” and answering her own question with a thorough and much-needed look at the remarkable [...]

  4. Welcoming History | Young Black Professional Guide on 06 Nov 2008 at 4:46 pm

    [...] of awkwardness at my youth organizing program when my Executive Director noted he’d voted for Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente. Awkwardness for both of us because what did our different choices say about our politics, our [...]

Comments

  1. em wrote:

    thank you Latoya! i’m voting obama, but i voted nader back in 2004, and it makes me so angry when people accuse progressive third parties of losing elections for the democrats. it’s a blanket statement that makes no legitimate sense when you look at the battleground states where democrats lost the last two national elections.

    sidenote: i find it really interesting that ross perot–who did probably contribute to george h.w. bush losing back in ‘92–has never been vilified by the republican party the way nader has been by the democrats.

    if i were to vote for a third party in this election, it would be green, not nader. i have to admit that i was more than a little put off that nader didn’t combine his voter following with the green party’s by supporting mckinney/clemente. the greens are gonna have a hard time getting their 5% (a SUPER IMPORTANT FEAT) with nader siphoning off votes.

    thanks again for this post, i appreciate your support of an inclusive, involved and proactive electorate!

  2. Adele wrote:

    Hey Latoya:

    Thank you for linking my interview. I think it’s crucial for people to vote strategically; in a state where it’s very close, I understand voting for Obama. But in a state where Obama or McCain are going to win overwhelmingly, we should take that opportunity to support more progressive candidates/parties.

  3. phoenix wrote:

    omg, thank you so much for this post. Being a Green is so hard. I remember back in 04 having an argument with my mom about Kerry. She kept giving me these stupid reasons about why I should vote for him. But I still voted Green anyway because I believe in my party. I’m not that jazzed about Obama but I hope that his election will help to open the door to the Greens and the other third parties that are out there.

  4. kati wrote:

    What if you’re anti-statist and anti-hierarchy and do not see electoral politics as an avenue for real change? Anarchists are cowards now?

  5. atlasien wrote:

    I’ve voted for McKinney in the past (I live in the Fourth) but I’m definitely not voting for her this time. I have the same problem with her as most of her former constituents. We like her politics, we like her fighting spirit, but she’s just not good at building coalitions and compromising, which is something you have to do on a national political level.

  6. drispe wrote:

    The disgusting reality is that our political game has been rigged for the Dems and Republicans for every single election. It should be mandatory for every debate that we include every party, but the most powerful ones create qualifications to keep others out. Even Kucinich got screwed by his own party during the primaries. If Ross Perot hadn’t bough his way into the process in 1992, we might not even care about independent contenders today. Isn’t it strange of America to fawn over Clinton and Obama’s bids for the presidency after Shirley Chisolm was black and a woman all wrapped up in one, only to ignore two women of color sharing a ticket for the Green party?

  7. j wrote:

    thanks for this post. it’s heartening so see an acknowledgement of something other than the obama/mccain spectacle. i will add that a two-party system is hardly democratic – there would probably be riots across the county if folks were only allowed to choose between two brands of cereal or two kinds of cars, yet the two-party system is somehow how seen as a great ‘choice’. i will also add to the mix that there are many who vote but are still largely apathetic – once voting day has passed. I agree that apathy should be shunned – everyone should actively participate in making the changes they feel are necessary for creating a better society. the ballot box is not the only form of participation out there. for all of you who may be newly jazzed up about politics because of this election, don’t let it end tomorrow. contact your local community organizing groups, show up to a community meeting, get your hands dirty and work for change. take the energy and excitement you’re feeling about the election and channel it into ongoing community-positive, community-building work, regardless of the outcome of the election.

  8. In May wrote:

    Thank you for covering the Green Party Candidates! That said, I wonder if Rosa Clemente knows that Ralph Nader is an Arab American (I remember this came up in a previous post), which seems pertinent given all the vitriol against “Arabs” during this campaign . I think Nader also gets media attention, because, well, he elicits a reaction–but mostly it’s a negative one with people claiming he “stole” the election in 2000. The MSM doesn’t pay any attention to those who won’t garner ratings, which is in itself becomes a Catch-22. DemocracyNow! has done a good job covering the mainstream candidates.

  9. Asada wrote:

    Oh really, well my goodness, other PoC are running other than Obama!?
    I was wondering when ths site would pick up on this. I cast my vote my GREEN PARTY!!!!

  10. Matt wrote:

    Following McKinney’s concession speech, a reporter attempted to ask the Congresswoman why she thought she lost. The New Black Panther member [from her security staff] interrupted, shouting, “Why do you think she lost? You wanna know what led to the loss? Israel. The Zionists. You. Put on your yarmulke and celebrate.”

    “This incident is reminiscent of the 2002 campaign in which Rep. McKinney’s father “blamed the J-E-W-S” for her defeat,” said Ms. Rose. “Rep. McKinney did not distance herself from the anti-Semitic comments then, and her service in Congress has been clouded by a perception that she also harbors such feelings.”

    Unfortunately, I’m in a hurry, so I can’t really go into my views on fringe candidates and far-left politics (which I’d usually like to be more successful than they are) and positions where I’d agree with her, but it bothers me when people support McKinney without mentioning this stuff.

  11. Chris wrote:

    I really wish we had instant runoff voting. This allows you to rank candidates ( I would put McKinney first, Nader second and Obama third). Then if no candidate gets more than 50% of the vote, the second choices are counted. It allows people to vote for their real first choice instead of the lesser of two evils. Because I live in a battleground state I will be voting for Obama. However, there are plenty of things that I disagree with him about.

  12. Erica wrote:

    I have gone back and forth between McKinney and Obama on various policies, but will be voting for Obama. Even though SC isn’t a considered a “battleground state”, I want to help give him a fighting chance here.

    Green Party candidates will get my vote for the state seats and so on, though. I like their policies.

  13. timarasa wrote:

    yes, Chris, totally agree that we should have IRV for federal elections, especially for presidential primaries across all states. it’s ridiculous that people feel they have to play a game of political “stratego” to maximize the chances of their vote counting for something. many countries around the world already use IRV for their national elections, and a few US cities for their local ones. i guess presidential caucuses (like in Iowa) are somewhat similar to IRV, but there are more chances to be unduly influenced since people vote w/ their bodies in public versus by secret ballot. but yes, my IRV ballot would read 1) McKinney 2) Nader 3) Obama as well. fortunately, i live in california and can vote Green the way i want :o )

  14. em wrote:

    @ Matt: i would like to see more quotes from mckinney et al regarding israel and aipac. because, for the record, there is a HUGE difference between being anti-zionist/anti-israel and anti-semitic. HUGE.

    i know that mckinney stood up to aipac and opposed the tactics israel uses in its occupation of palestine, as have many other people and organizations (human rights watch, and amnesty international to name two). and many people say that it was her stances on israel and aipac that lost her that election.

    on another somewhat related note: i would be really interested to see racialicious incorporate thoughts and views on palestine/israel from palestinian-americans and jewish/zionist-americans. based on how well the editrix and others do on so many other topics, i think this might be one of the few places where really good constructive dialogs could ensue.

  15. Logan wrote:

    On Nader vs. McKinney: Personally, I think Obama is reaching out to many of the young far left voters, who in a sense felt left out when Gore or Kerry ran (and who Nader was able to pick up to act as a spoiler to Gore). I think that many of the vocal Nader supporters and Green Party supporters are with Obama now, which is diminishing the rallying power of the Green party. Combine this with a bunch of other factors (Nader being a much bigger name, 3rd party dislike, the fact that Obama and Hillary both competed for the Democratic position, that Palin is McCain’s VP, which cuts any marketability from a woman of color running),

    Although, ironically, probably the death of third parties in American came from the much less talked about Republican spoiler, Ross Perot. Perot scared so many people in 92 that Congress changed the rules so that its pretty much impossible for a third party to be involved in the Presidential Debates (where the Green Party, even if its positions are so far left that they turn people off, would at least stand a chance to educate people out there and maybe hit that 5% mark). And it’ll never be overturned because the Democrats and Republicans both have been burned, and neither will risk it happening again. I mean, if Ross Perot challenging it when it came out and having 80% of the American People wanting him in the debates (off Wiki, take it as you will) won’t get it overturned, nothing will.

    Really, the only way a 3rd party now will have a chance at any impact on an election is either going to be a complete and total collapse and disintegration of a political party (kinda like the Republicans now, times 50), or a radical shift in the basis of politics in the US to a proportional democracy (such that you get seats in Congress proportional to the percent you got in a national election, but this would require constitutional ratifications which will most likely never happen). I mean, the landscape now is almost if you want to express yourself, Vote 3rd party; if you want your vote to matter, Vote Democrat or Republican.

  16. Alienation wrote:

    I am voting for McKinney. While every website I went to discussed the racist images such as “Obama waffles” very few even discussed the circa 1912 racist depictions of McKinney. I remember when Rosa Clemente spoke at my school how completely inspired I was. I voted for nader in 2004, and I am definitely surprised that so many radical anti-racists didn’t even consider McKinney despite her super liberal politics, feminism, and starch support of queer rights.

    It goes to show that despite people wanting “change”, it’s only valid when it’s a white female or a black male.

    I’d be excited if Obama wins, but not at the expense of selling my soul to support an inferior candidate.

  17. Korolev wrote:

    I have a mixed relationship with Green parties. Sometimes I really like what they say, othertimes they come off as anti-science whackjobs who are afraid of technology.

    I like their sustainability platforms and so on, and I like their pro-environmental policies, generally, and I REALLY like their support for renewable energy sources

    . But over the years, especially in my country Australia, the Greens have become less and less about the environment, and more and more about being communists. They are so incredibly “anti-business” in Australia, and I’ve seen a few waving Marxist banners around the place. Generally I like moderate socialists, but hard-line communists scare the hell out of me. I know corporations do bad things, but as I recall, the USSR and the PRC weren’t very environmentally friendly either.

    Also – does the US green party oppose GM foods? I work in the field of genetics, and I’m really sick of Australian greens espousing their anti-science, pagan worshipping nonsense. They know NOTHING about genetics, yet they feel they are qualified to talk on the subject. Now before anyone goes and calls me a Corporate stooge – I don’t work. I’m a student who does genetic research on human hnRNP proteins. But I’m versed in genetic modification of plants, and I’m telling you it is one of the most promising fields of science.

    That’s why I can’t totally support the Green Party in Australia. And if the US green party is the same, I cannot support them. They’re slowly turning into Luddities – people afraid of technology. Or worse, Pagans – people who believe that nature is sacred and cannot be tampered with (bollocks to that – I’m an atheist – there’s no such thing as “plant spirits” or “mother earth” – plants have no rights. They’re PLANTS).

    The green party is idealistic and generally supports the things I do. But I cannot vote for them if they continue down this path of “science-hating” and “technology-fearing”. Half the time a green supporter opens their mouth to speak out against GM foods, I’m left staggered at their complete lack of knowledge – they know next to nothing about genetics, yet they feel they have the right to speak. Leave science to the scientists, greens.

  18. lxy wrote:

    The Green Party in practice is America’s true second party.

    The Republicrats and their supporters may push the illusion that the Demos or Repubs represent Maverick Political Change that you Need ™, but in practice they are a two-headed monster.

  19. CJ wrote:

    Better late than never! I was so frustrated throughout all of the oppression olympics played between Obama and Hillary supporters that no one ever brought up that there were Two Women of Color running on a presidential ticket for the first time in history. I was also frustrated by the fact that people whom I told I was voting McKinney relegated it to voting for Nader (which was basically a proxy for ‘you’re winning the election for the Bushies just like in ‘00′). I’m not sure why, but some mainstream voters seem to think that third party voters are clueless, happy-go-lucky, antagonistic, or bullheaded when it comes to their understanding of the outcome of their vote. In my experience, third-party voters (and especially Greens) are extremely aware of electoral processes and base their votes and party affiliations off of that.

    In general, I think McKinney is the best thing to happen to this presidential race and I plan to help her and Clemente get a good showing in Minnesota.

  20. Shauna wrote:

    While racism and sexism often play a prominent role in how and whether people are covered in the media, this is probably just another case of 3rd parties not being covered. I don’t know about you but the only time I heard anything about Bob Barr (a white male) was on the Colbert Report, and that was just because his name sounds like the elephant Barbar.

    And I’m sick of people saying that the only reason 3rd party candidates don’t win is because they don’t receive media attention. Often their views go against what academics widely agree on or don’t represent the views of Americans.

    Physicists agree that nuclear power would be one of the safest methods to reduce global warming by adopting a system like France’s, and so do Obama and McCain. Nader is opposed.

    Economists agree that free trade overall is good, and Obama and McCain have also (Obama is opposed to some new agreements). McKinney wants to overturn NAFTA.

    When McKinney says she wants to end the war on drugs does she mean that she wants to legalize all drugs? When she says that she wants to stop imprisoning our kids does she mean that she wants no corrective justice system for minors?

    The fact is that 3rd party candidates don’t represent the views of Americans. Also they often focus on a single issue but a President needs to be able to govern on a variety of issues.

  21. Rain wrote:

    like others here, I would be voting for McKinney if it wasn’t so important to me that McCain not win . . .

  22. Green Ferret wrote:

    Cynthia and Rosa are awesome, no doubt… but there are also 200+ other Greens running for office around the country who are committed to peace, justice, democracy, sustainability and equal rights.

    That means that even if you’re settling for a presidential candidate who’s not your first choice, you can still support Greens in other races.
    Green Change is providing a place for activists and Green-thinking people to discuss the elections and future progressive strategy: http://network.greenchange.org/groups/election08

    The link includes profiles of 25 hot Green candidates to watch – vote for ‘em, they’re on your side!

  23. Jess wrote:

    I think there’s a lack of historical perspective when covering third parties, and when discussing them.

    Yes, the system we have is set up for two parties, but that isn’t because the two current parties set it up that way. Way back when the electoral college was invented the thing was designed around there being no political parties at all. There just wasn’t a setup for them. Contrast this with parliamentary systems, which take political parties as a given.

    That’s one reason we have winner-take-all voting, which in a structural sense favors a binary system — a plurality is as good as a majority win in most states, so there is no need to build coalitions.

    That’s the structural issue. Now, remember that there has been change as a result of third- or even fourth-party voting. The Republicans were almost ended as a viable party in the election of 1912 (they only carried Vermont and Utah) when the Progressive party ran. (Teddy Roosevelt got 88 electoral votes, but had he been able to keep his organization together the system might look very different now).

    And let’s not forget even further back — the current Democrat/Republican system only took shape in the years leading up to the Civil War.

    Getting to the Green Party, one reason they don’t get coverage is that they are simply not representative of that many people (yet). Let’s face it, if you aren’t going to get more than 1-2% of the vote, then you probably aren’t that relevant. That’s because in most elections the incumbent wins by 5-10% or even more. It isn’t fair and it’s not representative of people like myself who aren’t thrilled with Democrats all the time. But it’s reality.

    Perot got votes — but because of the state-based electoral system and changes in the country as a whole he wasn’t able to pull off a repeat of Wallace (see the ancient history of the 1968 election for you young folk :-) )

    Let’s dispel another myth: the Greens were NOT a spoiler for Gore. Gore couldn’t get his own home state to vote for him. Not too many people win without that, and had he done so Florida would have been irrelevant. The only states where Nader made any difference were New Hampshire and Florida. And again, had Tennessee gone for Gore neither would have mattered.

    All that said, the biggest issue I have with the Greens is that the party was so focused on Ralph Nader for so long. There wasn’t a whole lot of institutional structure in place to replace him, and it took a while for the party I think to figure out what to do.

    I like a lot of things about Cynthia McKinney. But as one poster put it, she is simply awful at coalition-building, and her tenure in the House shows it.

    And before anyone jumps on me for not being progressive enough or acknowledging that she was too radical, Paul Wellstone was an unabashedly progressive Senator who was much better
    at the kind of coalition building I am talking about. Dennis Kucinich also does it better. Mosley-Braun was able to do it. Charles Rangel was able to do it. The list goes on. Some people are great fighters for certain things but aren’t all that great in legislative settings. And that leads to positions that alienate people rather than bring them in.

    That’s politics.

    I think there is a good future for the Green party, and I’d say keep running at the local level. Don’t expect anything at the national level for a while.

    Remember, Bernie Sanders is in the Senate. It doesn’t need to stop with him.

    To the anarchists: there’s a reason there aren’t too many anarchistic societies that aren’t kinship-based. Once you get beyond a relatively small number of people, it’s hard to set that up. Since we live in a world with cities of 1 million + people, I don’t see it as a realistic option, and neither do most people.

    To the socialists/lefties out there: Yeah, Obama ain’t running for the SWP, but you could carp at the Dems and get nothing or you could elect more Democrats at the local and legislative level who agree with you (like Martin in GA). What do you think is going to get results sooner? I don’t like it either. And remember, the two goals- breaking the Democratic/Republican duopoly and electing better people within those parties — are not mutually exclusive.

  24. Iggles wrote:

    @ Shauna

    Word. I think when it comes to national politics, the problem for ALL parties is that you can’t just talk to your base.

    In every party there’s a radical wing. You need that passion and core desire to change the way things are. However, when it becomes destructive (i.e., religious totalitarians on the right, animal activists who target company employee using force on the left), it’s not a good look. America’s such a big, diverse country. Catering to one group leaves out many others.

    For the past 8 years Republican leaders have won by squeaking victories using fear. This year the Democrats are using inclusion and unity. Whether it’s negative or positive you have to win over 50%+1 of the country to win a national election.

    Third parties have this same hurdle, but the reason they generally don’t win is because they talk to their base. To members appealing to people outside your base is considered “selling out”.

    The Green party and others have been very successful on the local level. In towns, cities, and states across America they have gotten good candidates elected.

    BUT, on a national stage you have to appeal to more than the people who agree with you 100% of the time.

  25. Matt wrote:

    @em, comment 14,

    There might be a huge difference between being anti-Zionist and antisemitic (that’s a big topic, though), but look at those quotes again. “Put on your yarmulke and celebrate”? How could that possibly be about a political ideology such as Zionism? It’s focused on essentializing the difference between Jews and non-Jews. Even if the politics behind it were merely anti-Zionist, it’s expressed like a racial slur!

    And with a little knowledge of the New Black Panthers, I’m confident saying it’s not the case that the politics behind it were merely anti-Zionist. After a leader from the group visited my alma mater, the Spirit House which invited him marched en masse over to the Jewish fraternity on campus to apologize.

    Classic antisemitism has said that Jews control nations where they live. (Imagine what this means about Jewish rights to participate in democracy.) From Charles Lindbergh’s famous, antisemitic Des Moines speech:

    these war agitators comprise only a small minority of our people; but they control a tremendous influence. Against the determination of the American people to stay out of war, they have marshaled the power of their propaganda, their money, their patronage.

    (It’s a worthwhile exercise to see if you can spot the Nazi sympathizing, American fascist in that speech?) Isn’t that the central meaning of those quotes from McKinney’s people – that Jews unfairly control who wins elections?

    For what it’s worth, I know this site is interested in the line of discussion you suggest. I hope to be a part of that discussion, and I’d be happy to discuss it elsewhere as well.

  26. Logan wrote:

    Jess: The thing is, even with the US system, it has always effectively been a two party system. The only times that a 3rd party has many any sort of impact were with splinter groups within a party or its ideal (Teddy Roosevelt’s disagreements with Taft, the various factions when Lincoln won the presidency due to the Whig disintegration, the split of the Democratic Republicans back with John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson) or in the rare case where someone’s primary stance was supporting an issue which trumped others (Wallace and Segregation in 68, Perot and Economic Reform in 92/96). Outside of a few years where one party disintegrated, its been effectively a two party system since Washington left office. And with so many touchy subjects on the table (the economy, the war, the supreme court justices), it just isn’t a good time for any third party to come into play (and hell, lets even look at Nader, he only pulled 2.7% of the vote: by historical standards that’s bad for a third party).

  27. Monie wrote:

    I was considering McKinney and Clemente until Ms. McKinney started saying that there were 5000 Black men who were killed in Louisiana. That just threw me for a loop. I mean if there was even a grain of truth to what she was saying then where are the families of these men?

    So unfortunately the Green Party has tied itself to someone who seems prone to outrageousness to get attention. Hopefully next time the Greens will pick someone who isn’t so all over the place.

  28. Robin M. wrote:

    On my ballot in California, Nader is running on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket, not the Green Party. I am really disappointed in local Green party activist Matt Gonzalez for getting into Nader’s self-aggrandizing run rather than supporting McKinney. Makes him no better than Sarah Palin.

    I voted for McKinney in the primary, and the Green candidates wherever else I can find them. But I voted for Obama today, just because I want to be part of his victory.

  29. brownstocking wrote:

    As a former member of the GPUSA, and a member of its Black Caucus, I will not cast a vote for GPUSA until I know it’s decreased the infighting among the caucuses and core council. Only a couple of years ago, Black Greens were fighting to be heard by their “inclusive” party, and many of us stepped away from the vitriol. The core, as well as some other caucuses, were not our allies.

    McKinney is problematic in several ways, so I am not about to cast a symbolic vote “for a Black woman.” Lenore Fulani was a better pick, on her first run, IMO.

    But hey! Let’s hope Barr splits off a few R votes!

  30. jvansteppes wrote:

    I find it very odd that the green party is considered ‘far left’ to the point where several commenters here use that term.
    Obviously the party and its leaders have diverse opinions about how to draft effective policy, some of which is left but none of which is far left. Please see your local Marxist group for that.

    It is not ‘far left’ to oppose liberalized trade or to fight for immigrant rights, even if Fox news would like us to think otherwise. The invention of the seat belt [thank you Ralph Nader even though your race politics make me leery] was not a ‘far left’ action. Regulation isn’t far left, just as nationalized health or media institutions aren’t ‘far left’. In Canada this stuff is pretty normal even though it’s eroding thanks to big business.

    Also: you don’t need to make yarmulke jokes to challenge Israeli government policies. McKinney should know better.

  31. Versai wrote:

    I heard McKinney on NPR and I don’t think she gave a good interview at all. Now, I didn’t hear the entire thing–but in the part I did hear she was avoiding answering questions.

    It just left me with the feeling that she/the Greens had ideals–but no actual plan for how to make things come about.

  32. jen* wrote:

    After struggling between Green and Blue (Dem) for a while, I’ve decided to go Green. I’m hoping for 5%, but I dunno if we’ll get it. Living in SC, I know there’s very little hope(!) for an Obama win, here. So I’m going Green.

    I remember McKinney from when I lived in GA, and she has her ways, but I’d like this party to go places. So here I am – voting 3rd party for prez. For the first time in my life.

    I hate that you guys waited until now to cover this, though…

  33. Jess wrote:

    @Logan–

    that’s part of the point I was making. The structure of the system favors two parties, even though parties aren’t supposed to be part of the system. If we had proportional representation in some form or other, the system would be different and third parties would get a (better) chance.

    If you go to almost any other country you vote for a party, not a candidate. In England, for instance, the MP isn’t elected from your district, he’s chosen by the party and assigned, as it were, though functionally they represent a certain area and are from there.

    The same is true to varying degrees throughout countries where proportional representation is employed.

    We could do that with the presidential races here — is we split electoral votes by congressional district and ditched the Senate portion of the electoral college, or even just assigned the two “extra” EVs per state to the majority winner. Nebraska and Maine already do it. That would make the presidential races reflect the popular vote a little more closely, and gve third parties some space.

  34. lxy wrote:

    The one positive of the donkey wing of the Republicrat party winning both the White House and Congress tonight is that, once in power, they will have no more excuses not to follow through on all their promises of change that their mouthpieces are always pimping.

    Then, we’ll see what they are really all about. No more alibis. No more rationalizations.

    If they don’t back up all their campaign rhetoric with action, the resulting political anger and backlash won’t be pretty for the Demos or their supporters.

    But it will be deserved.

  35. maia wrote:

    dear latoya,
    i did not vote. it was my choice. i am not a coward.
    if voting is the most courageous political choice that someone has made…congratulations! but, i have worked in the west bank, palestine as a journalist and human rights worker for years. i worked in the democratic republic of congo as a human rights worker. in chiapas, mexico with the zapatistas. in the working class black communities of baltimore. i am not a coward. i am politically engaged. and not simply as a blogger or a commentator. i have put my body and my life on the line for my beliefs. just like those who put their bodies on the line in order to vote.
    right now i am watching as they called the election for obama. and i am crying. i will not go through the reasons that i chose not to vote. but those reasons were not because of apathy. they were not because ignorance. they were not because of cowardice.
    i am a black woman, working class, from the south, a descendent of slaves.
    people died for my right to be politically engaged. and there are more profound ways to be engaged than voting.

  36. Westerly wrote:

    There’s an election coming up where I live – and I’m going to exercise my right to abstain from voting.

    To me, if voting is ‘obligatory’ – and I can’t choose when and on what to vote, or in which election – if I can’t refuse what’s on offer but must simply vote like a robot on the allotted date then you know what? It’s neither a right nor a choice.

    I’m not against voting, but I am against the process being waved around like a religion.

    @lxy:
    “The one positive of the donkey wing of the Republicrat party winning both the White House and Congress tonight is that, once in power, they will have no more excuses not to follow through on all their promises of change that their mouthpieces are always pimping.

    Then, we’ll see what they are really all about. No more alibis. No more rationalizations.

    (But, but… I like genuinely donkeys. They’re beautiful, temperate and wise.)

    Other than that, yeah. Though for me, I think they already revealed what they’re all about a long time ago.

  37. Marge Twain wrote:

    This election day, I proudly filled in the bubble for McKinney/Clemente. I will not support another candidate who doesn’t stand for me.

    The Obama campaign fomented and capitalized on a groundswell of suspicion and hatred for women who dare to seek high office and it has now been codified as a legitimate campaign strategy that will surely be used in the future. I truly hope there’s a sea change in this country before Malia and Sasha get too much ambition.

  38. Alison wrote:

    Hello all,

    The only reference I saw to McKinney/Clemente ‘08 was on the Al-Jazeera English website. They had an electoral counter with Republican, Democrat and “Others” that listed all the candidates names.