VH1’s Best 100 Songs in Hip-Hop: The Evolution of Black TV
by Guest Contributor M.Dot, originally published at Model Minority
Two major things happened in Black television in the last week or so.
Rap City was canceled, TRL was canceled and VH1 presented the 100 best songs in Hip Hop.
All of these are interesting because they relate to hip hop. I remember when I first learned that 106 and Park audience surpassed TRL’s about 7 years ago, and I thought to myself, hmm thats interesting. In fact, I think Carson Daly had just left the show for Hollywood.
Recently, I read a quote in S. Craig Watkin’s book which said that black teenagers in general and boys specifically occupy a very interesting place in the American culture. On one level their presence is reviled, their bodies are policed (laws on sagging pants) and they are systematically undereducated (only 35% of Black men starting 9th grade in NYC graduate) yet their “cultural products” are in demand from Madison Avenue to Japan.
In watching the segment on NWA, I was reminded of how far from mainstream hip hop was in the early days. I was particularly tickled when Kurt Lorder of MTV asked Ice Cube a question about the educational system and he responded “We ain’t activist, we give social commentary, we like the news”. I find that this sentiment squares nicely with my my post last week, titled, “Hip Hop Isn’t Political”. What was particularly interesting as well was how none of them were making money except Eazy E and Jerry Heller.
Here NWA was, making their social commentary and not getting paid. I am almost willing, let me repeat, almost, willing to go out on an ledge and say that there was something pure about their music, at that time.
They had no radio play, they sold millions of albums, the free speech folks rallied behind them, and they were not motivated by the money because they (the majority of them) were not making any money.
The marginalization of early hip hop and its subsequent popularity reminds me of how easy it is to go from being shunned by capitalism to being used by it. In many ways Black men are like Detroit, when capitalism no longer needs you, you will be left to figure out what to do with yourself.
It happened to The Chinese, The Japanese, Black folks and it will probably happen to Mexican folks in the next 30 years. [Ed Note - It's already happening. But we will discuss that in another post. - LDP] Cheap labor is America’s best friend.
Back to Rap music. The fact that Rap City was canceled reminded me of all the programming that was once on BET that is no longer shown such as Rap City, Teen Summit, Midnight Love and BET Nightly News. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t look to television for social justice or spiritual up lift, but there is something especially gully about willingly canceling all programming that may have some social value beyond promoting consumption.
Black people stay loving/supporting those who don’t love them back.
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of
LaurynX wrote:
I haven’t watched Rap City in years, what political value did Rap City have? As far as I remember it was just a show that played videos.
Though I was kind of pissed when they cut Midnight Love.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 11:33 am ¶
Mike wrote:
A little bit off topic, but, one tiny example in the separateness of America is that I (Los Angeles, 30s, white guy, techie) do not now nor have I ever listened to any hip-hop or rap. Neither do any of my friends. And its not like I have to actively avoid it. It simply doesn’t exist for me and my friends. Its not on my radio stations or on my TV channels. (I think I know where to find it if I wanted to.) When hip-hop gets discussed here, for me, it is like a view into another world.
So when discussing how far from mainstream NWA was and is, I can’t help but wonder which mainstream you are talking about? Probably the mainstream of the young, I guess.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 12:02 pm ¶
Mohammed wrote:
Nice article fam. I definitely feel you on a lot of your points.
The game changed when the mainstream stopped fearing and ignoring hip-hop and saw it as a cash cow; when it went from an art to a business. And it all starts from the top. Big media corporations have pretty much bought up all the record labels and radio stations and systematically changed the game.
You will never hear any type of social or conscious records played on the radio or their videos on television. So many progressive and intelligent acts have gone by wayside and become irrelevant on national stage due to this practice. They, being the corporations in control have dumbed-down the audience. They’d rather keep us dancing instead of thinking.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 12:03 pm ¶
drispe wrote:
Like rock, the essence of rap’s origin was held at bay until white executives deduced the best way to appropriate it for their own cultural needs. Pop basically IS hip-hop now, and without the urban underpinnings, they’d be selling a vanilla product. Besides, blackness equals danger, and where else would this country get its edge? Aguilera, Spears, Timberlake and Pink have all cashed in on the trend. How long it takes for this pop-hop to become passe and replaced with more thievery is anyone’s guess. What I don’t understand is how this works in television, where networks like CW and WB are started with inclusive programming, and eventually free of any appeals to people of color. They don’t even waste time retaining the appropriation at that point. BET may be a poor representative of its target audience, but so is MTV. They air countless hours of youth oriented junk that has no relation to music.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 12:06 pm ¶
Sulyp wrote:
I highly dislike BET. If only for the fact that when it was bought out by Viacom and it was no longer black owned… hence it’s content going to garbage in a hand basket (IMHO). The shows are produced with capitalism in mind, and it shows. There has been a mass exodus of black folk from patronizing the images of BET for a long time now, especially by black women, including myself. Many aspects of black American culture has been caricaturized and even demonized on that network that is supposedly in the interest of “Black Entertainment”.
Even though BET keeps some black entertainers employed and paid, there are some messages within that network that I really disagree with. One would wonder, when there is another channel to rival that of BET that is actually black-owned and serving the interests of various black communities, will the messages be any different? I don’t know the answer to that, but at least it will be by their own hands… and not being tied to Viacom’s puppet strings like those at BET. The only way to counter what mainstream media portrays of us is to hit it right back with ten times more positive images. The best way to do that is to own the networks/outlets that produce such content. That way, if Hip Hop becomes passe (if ever), it’s because we say it’s over, not because some top exec could make his money.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 12:10 pm ¶
Amanda Amaterasu wrote:
“A little bit off topic, but, one tiny example in the separateness of America is that I (Los Angeles, 30s, white guy, techie) do not now nor have I ever listened to any hip-hop or rap. Neither do any of my friends. And its not like I have to actively avoid it. It simply doesn’t exist for me and my friends. Its not on my radio stations or on my TV channels. (I think I know where to find it if I wanted to.) When hip-hop gets discussed here, for me, it is like a view into another world.”
I apologize Mike, but I am in the same age group as you and I find this incredibly hard to believe, especially given that you live in a major city. I am not white, I grew up in the suburbs where grunge reigned supreme, and I primarily listened to hip hop. Even though my friends and I didn’t seek out grunge (I couldn’t name you an Alice in Chains song if my life depended on it), I was still very much aware of it. So I am having trouble wrapping my head around your statement.
Back to the topic- Rap City was always terrible for this East Coast snob, but what’s going to replace it? I haven’t watched BET in ages since they don’t have anything worth watching (except, apparently, for edited episodes of “The Wire”!). Is there no market for a hip hop video dedicated show?
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 1:14 pm ¶
drispe wrote:
Sulyp, I don’t know who owns TV One, but it’s definitely a welcome alternative to BET for me. First of all, they realize that our culture doesn’t begin and end with music alone. Programs like G. Garvin’s cooking show, as well as others about finances and home renovation are a welcome change. Unfortunately their schedule is populated with lots of sitcom reruns too.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 1:39 pm ¶
Zee wrote:
Mainstream hip-hop makes me sad. I don’t know what else to say.
Does anyone watch BET Jazz? Despite my disdain for “regular” BET, I love this channel. The difference in programming between the two is startling. Like Sulyp said BET resembles a caricature of blackness. BET Jazz is def more well-rounded. I often feel pangs of guilt about supporting the Viacom machine though LOL
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 2:41 pm ¶
The Voice of Reason wrote:
I really wish that there was some place on television that truly represented the whole of Hip Hop culture. As a hip hop artist and enthusiast, it pains me to see the limited, lowest common denominator, representations of what is actuallya very broad and expansive culture. We HipHoppers are much more than cars, crime, and jewelry. We work jobs, raise our kids, and educate our communities as well as getting our party on sometimes. A great deal of the music reflects that, but you’d never know it if the major media had anything to say about it.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 2:56 pm ¶
Black Canseco wrote:
Having worked with BET while at ad agencies and even appearing on a BET program, I can tell you the following:
1) BET’s core audience is not black teens or blacks of any demo. Hasn’t been in over 15 years.
2) BET has pissed off legions of black viewers to the point of them not watching–out of boycott, frustration, anger, responsibility, etc.
3) BET being bought by Viacom simply sped up an already ongoing process–the continued marginalization of black culture in cable media.
BET played the game and lost. They thought they could run a business like most white corporations/media outlets with no responsibility to their community and it would be okay.
Robert Johnson got rich, but has been having financial woes for years. God ain’t gone bless that man financially ever again, far as I’m concerned.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 3:01 pm ¶
The Voice of Reason wrote:
I had no idea the VH1 list was THAT bad! You can’t do a list like that with only 1 Nas song, 1 Rakim song and NO KRS/BDP songs. Whoever is responsible for that list should be flogged!
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 3:01 pm ¶
ieishah wrote:
i started mourning rap city when it moved into the basement. or was it always in the basement? don’t remember. either way, i surprised it took so long to die. the setting always felt . . . portent.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 4:08 pm ¶
BSK wrote:
BlackCanseco-
Referring to your point #1, what is their current target demographic?
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 4:10 pm ¶
m.dot wrote:
@Black Canseco
1) BET’s core audience is not black teens or blacks of any demo. Hasn’t been in over 15 years.
=====
Based on what evidence? Its a hunch that I have had for a lonnnnnnng time but..
DM me on twitter, if you wish
@ Mike
And its not like I have to actively avoid it. It simply doesn’t exist for me and my friends. Its not on my radio stations or on my TV channels.
======
Thats interesting. I don’t know if this speaks to the separateness of America, or just the fact that rap music is simply apart of your life.
@ Mohammed
So many progressive and intelligent acts have gone by wayside and become irrelevant on national stage due to this practice.
=====
Don’t get me started. I am working on an Essay titled “A Bitch is a Bitch” about Black women, Don Imus, R. Kelly and Hip Hop, and geez laweese.
The lack of a NEUTRAL message in the music is mind blowing. And our willingness to say that “he ain’t talking about me” is incredible.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 5:25 pm ¶
Arturo wrote:
I have another question for Mike: why have you “not now or ever” listened to any hip-hop or rap? I’m curious as to why someone would consciously shun an artform.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 6:22 pm ¶
JustChaz wrote:
Well, first off, any list that has the glorious “T.R.O.Y.” in the freakin’ 90s on a countdown of the greatest hip-hop songs ever immediately raises my ire, and even if I DIDN’T admit that’s arguably my favorite song of any genre (seriously, it’s a perfect song), this list would-and did-spurn on the disgusted heat of a thousand suns (at least for a little while anyways).
But I don’t know if I fully can get behind the idea that they weren’t motivated by money simply because they weren’t making any. I think they simply were ignorant of the business aspect (like so many other rappers in the salad days), but once they got wise (ie Cube), things changed.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 7:27 pm ¶
DivergentDana wrote:
“1) BET’s core audience is not black teens or blacks of any demo. Hasn’t been in over 15 years.”
Really? Who is it composed of? I seldom watched it, but I distinctly remember that is was very popular amongst my classmates (I went to a mostly black H.S.), and that was about 4-5 years ago. Also, the advertisements seemed geared towards blacks in the customary ways (distinctly black-accented voice-overs, black commercial leads, black hair products) … I used to be thoroughly amused by the early-90s west coast rap-esque synth music that many of the black-geared commercials had.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 8:24 pm ¶
H.G. wrote:
@JustChaz
I LOVE that song—if there was ever a song that epitomized what rap was like before it become all about the three B’s—booty,b—ches, and bling, it’s definitely THAT one! It’s got almost everything a classic rap tune—could have—an interesting and funny story, a memorable bassline and groove that keeps you hooked, and a dark,moody, funky jazz sax sample that stands out and caps it all off thoughout the song. Here’s a Wikipedia entry on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.R.O.Y.
Also,here’s a classic ’80’s underground dance tune I always thought was recorded by some European group, but turns out it was one of the first real Detroit techno records:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeF0xTdHPfA
@Drispe
TV One is a black-owned channel—it’s owned by Alfred Hughes, the owner of Radio One (a black-owned conglomerate who owns two of the biggest R&B/rap stations here in Detroit–WXMD 92.3 and WJLB FM 98). He’s also the son of Cathy Hughes, a sister who was the first black woman to own and operate her own radio station in the nation.
But,yeah, I remember reading interviews with Ice Cube back in the day saying that’s exactly why he left the group after their highly successful 1st album—because he simply wasn’t getting paid—that’s why a lot of early rappers’ careers didn’t last too long, because, as an old saying goes, they didn’t understand the business part of show business. I haven’t had cable in years, so I’ve simply heard how bad BET is from reading about it. Here’s a link to a recent book on Bob Johnson and BET:
http://www.amazon.com/Billion-Dollar-BET-Entertainment-Television/dp/0471735973/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224811841&sr=1-7
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 8:32 pm ¶
Mike wrote:
@Amanda
“I apologize Mike, but I am in the same age group as you and I find this incredibly hard to believe, especially given that you live in a major city.”
I can only tell you the truth of my experience.
I suppose it is because I live in LA that this is possible. There are radio stations for each of the subcultures.
Also, I think a big part of it is that we never had cable TV. Back in the day, we were poor and cable was pretty expensive. There hasn’t been any hip-hop on broadcast TV since “Soul Train”.
@Arturo
These days, I guess it is just momentum keeping me with the genres that I like.
When I was young and learning about music, back when I cared about my reputation, part of the reason why I was never curious about rap was because I didn’t want to be a poseur. Isn’t the middle-class white kid going to hip-hop shows always going to be the poseur?
That, plus, as a little punk, I was always annoyed that hip-hop wasn’t more DIY. It seemed that what they were doing required “production”, which to me implied producers, suits, money, and thus lies.
But again, I know almost nothing about it except what I read here on Racialicious or see on Tavis Smiley.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 9:41 pm ¶
Black Canseco wrote:
Dont have the current numbers in front of me but the media kits BET sales reps sent out to the agencies (places i worked) always talked about “youth audiences” and “young urban viewers which they classified as
12-17 year olds from “diverse backgrounds” and 18-34 year old adults who embrace youth culture.
BET’s always been a crossover brand. That’s been their goal, specifically Bob Johnson’s goal since the early ’90s. He notoriously said that BET is a youth channel, not a black channel.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 11:02 pm ¶
timarasa wrote:
with regard to BET’s audience: bet you the core audience is the same swathe of the population in the US that buy the millions of albums that make these multi-platinum rap artists…aka NOT black. i thought this phenomenon had been discussed into ground years ago…
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 11:22 pm ¶
DJ Black Adam wrote:
Well I haven’t watched BET in about 9 years, its actually odd that I can say that. I remember watching Paris, X-Clan, PE, KRS-One and a Tribe Called Quest in the early 90’s on Rap City, and even checking out Teen Summit and later watching Tavis every now and then and of course Midnight Love.
That being said, I just couldn’t stand how stupid, ascinine and misogynistic (not the mention the sorry level of Music production today, nothing against Lil Wayne and T- Pain, but I never thought I’d come to a day in Hip Hop were I feel the best days of production are behind it, i.e. Dr. Dre, Timbaland, Rza)
Not to mention the warped view of Black Maleness that the station promotes. Just not my bag, and absent statistically data, I’d bet their audience is predomiantly White…
Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 12:02 am ¶
Jaye wrote:
Yeah, I have a hard time believing Mike’s statement too. It’s something that’s just there…it’s on kid’s tv channels, every other commercial, films, magazines, video games…I mean, you can avoid listening to it, but avoid it to the point where it doesn’t touch your life at all??…that’s the positive and negative aspects of the commercialization of hip-hop, it’s all-encompassing. Your grandmother knows who 50 cent is.
Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 2:58 am ¶
gatamala wrote:
Black Canseco ~ I2I I’ve surmised that BET’s target audience is 14 year old white boys.
On some level, black folks know (even young ones) that the lives they LIVE are fuller than what is depicted on BET. The caricature (coonery) only serves to entertain the same people it’s always entertained.
Mike~ as black 32 year old puma and Doc wearin’ chick, I’m a little concerned about this: “That, plus, as a little punk, I was always annoyed that hip-hop wasn’t more DIY. It seemed that what they were doing required “production”, which to me implied producers, suits, money, and thus lies.”
turntables, cables and speakers are DIY.
As a DIY punk, certainly you understand that hip hop is more than the corporate mess you see on tv? Look at the Pistol’s image creation. Consider everything that happened between Black Flag and Green Day. How would you feel if someone looked at Good Charlotte and lamented how vapid “punk” was.
There are some definite parallels and intersection between these scenes.
Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 9:42 am ¶
CVT wrote:
It always pains me when I talk to the kids I teach (middle school) about hip-hop because of their limited perspective – all they know is the crap on the radio (which I would argue isn’t actually “hip-hop” music at all, due to its complete divergence from the original intent of the culture).
However, on the positive – a co-worker of mine is currently teaching a Hip-Hop history class, and to hear the kids talk about the 5 elements of hip hop, to hear their amazement when they realize half the crap they hear now isn’t original at all but ripped from classics from back in the day . . . It gives a hip-hop fan hope.
Posted 25 Oct 2008 at 12:10 pm ¶
apaperbackwriter wrote:
Hey, you guys are being a little harsh on Mike, who I think is really just trying to be honest and not insult hip hop as a form.
I live in LA, too, and I’ll say that the subculture thing is really true. Just because you’re from LA doesn’t mean you’re in tune with an art form that bubbled up in South Central. In fact, half the history of LA could be about how out of tune all its different subcultures are — various police scandals, the riots in the 90s, etc.
I think what Mike was trying to say was that he’s never gone out of his way to learn about hip hop and so he’s ignorant in this field. I think that’s fair. I grew up in the Republican, red-state town and for me hip hop was always there in the background — I wasn’t allowed to watch much TV but I’d hear it at dances. Mostly, people were into alternative. And now I still mostly run in circles where people listen to more alternative/indie/electronic than strict hip hop. But I did come to hip hop in college via an interest in the social justice side of the genre (through sites like this one!).
Some of you grew up with hip hop in the foreground of your lives, but I think it’s important in observing racial politics to understand that everyone comes from radically different places. I mean, isn’t that at the core of what we talk about on this site? Sometimes people make blunders and gaffes that make it obvious that they must live in some sort of bubble? And we’re here, yes, sometimes to prod and poke at the people making the gaffe, but we’re also here to pop the bubble that makes those comments possible.
So, look, the guy’s checking out what’s going on on Racialicious and admitting he’s totally clueless about hip hop. He’s not the doofus who is clueless and decides to make ignorant comments about hip hop (and, OMG, I work with so many old white dudes that believe me, that’s a blessing). He’s just relaying his experience in this racially-divided city. Cut him a little slack. And maybe give him some recs so he can get himself schlep over to iTunes to download hip hop’s greatest albums! I’m digging The Roots latest album right now…
Posted 27 Oct 2008 at 10:44 pm ¶
merq wrote:
I agree. I think they’re being a tad hard on Mike, but that may also have something to do with his phrasing. I’m sure when he said “I… do not now nor have I ever listened to any hip-hop or rap,” he didn’t mean absolutely never in his existence. He probably just meant he never actively sought it out, and thus has heard more than he’s listened to.
Exactly. I remember when VH1’s first Hip-Hop Honors show was announced. All I could do was look up from my book/paper/magazine and sneer: “Pfft. Yeah, ’cause when I think ‘Hip-Hop,’ I think ‘VH1.’”
Posted 28 Oct 2008 at 7:17 am ¶