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1. Jiz Lee » Love Begets Love on 25 Oct 2008 at 4:39 am

   [...] when the power of media is more and more attainable. Case in point, Latoya Peterson’s recent post — the 1st video (Kelly Zen-Yie Tsai), incedentally, I first saw on IloveUPeople.com. : ) [...]

Comments

1. Gouw wrote:

   I know you guys read Angry Asian Man, did you catch that one Bao Phi poem about McCain? That shit was so fresh

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 7:10 am ¶

2. Mimi wrote:

   that was rough… but too true.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 8:41 am ¶

3. merq wrote:

   Completely tangential, but I couldn’t get into “That One Bigot” because of the nagging sense that Adriel Luis swagger-jacked Jay Smooth of Illdoctrine’s vlogging style.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 9:17 am ¶

4. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

   I like Kelly’s piece a lot too, and I think it’s a really good commentary on how black/white-focused overall race discussions are.

   I would, however, contend that Obama is one of the only public figures I can think of who does not fall into this trap.

   The fact that he has always made it a point to be so inclusive in his speeches (calling repeatedly for whites, blacks, Asian-Americans, Latinos and Native Americans to come together) is one of the things that I find most compelling about him.

   It’s also the reason I found the criticism from Julianne Malveaux and Cornel West that he didn’t invoke MLK by name so ridiculous: http://tinyurl.com/57dlvy

   Obama’s whole vision about race is that these issues impact us all – they’re not just “black” issues. It’s a fundamentally different world-view from a lot of the old-guard civil rights folks. So he was invoking MLK as a symbol of the future we’re trying to reach — not as a way to pay homage to another African-American leader.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 10:30 am ¶

5. Daniel wrote:

   Interesting videos; a little repetition never hurts too badly! On the first one, the most ironic thing is that none of the colors, including black or white refer to anybody. Now me, for example, I’m a light beige with a mix of pink. The only thing remotely white about me is the area of my eyes around my pupils and my teeth. Now, I am a fan of specificity too, and I would like to inform everyone that specificity and politics, while not mutually exclusive, are rarely seen kissing in the hallways of injustice. If we really wish to be specific, we need to start referring to people’s physicality according to specific genetic phenotypes which are real whereas race and color descriptions are euphemistic at best and usually completely false and misleading.
   Most people have a tendency to want to be included in a group. They want to feel safe and perhaps even occasionally understood without over-explaining themselves. Of course the truth, which is hard to swallow and accept for many people, including many in the anti-racist movement, is that there is only one species of humans on planet earth and we all belong to it. I know, I know, it’s not that glamorous and it’s boring, but it’s true nonetheless.
   On the second video, I felt that it just scratched the surface and, ironically, described some of the processes of racism. One thing that all racists have in common is that they assume a lot of things, often based on a narrow or myopic perspective and they are unwilling to see the truth even when it’s thrust in front of them. This is similarly shown in the word, bigot which describes a person who is completely (not partially) intolerant of all viewpoints that differ from their own. Is John McCain completely intolerant of all viewpoints other than is own? Probably not although he is fairly intolerant of Barack Obama’s viewpoints as Barack is of his. Again, neither of them are completely intolerant of all of each other’s ideas, just most of them. Is the use of “that one” in the context of the debate racist? I don’t know, but it might be, so that makes the comment foolish and stupid. I have heard people refer to each other as “that one” many times in discussions, usually when there was a point of contention and I do not think it is racist by definition. I am completely against about 90-95% of the McCain platform and I think he is amazingly inept for a Senator. Whether he is actually a racist or not is improvable, but he does and says things that make him appear racist. Perception really is nine tenths of reality.
   Racism of all kinds disgusts me. Whether it’s a system or just personal, it makes me sad, angry and frustrated and a whole range of other emotions as well. In my life, all of the racism that I have seen and experienced stems from fear and ignorance. Fear of what is unknown and unfamiliar and ignorance of the truth.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 10:41 am ¶

6. rena wrote:

   I really liked Kelly Tsai’s video. So non-stereotypical.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 2:32 pm ¶

7. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

   @rena, me too!

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 4:27 pm ¶

8. Sobia wrote:

   I’m wondering if this election (or the discourse surrounding the candidates) has actually been about Black and White only. What about the whole Muslim angle? Muslim does not imply Black and/or White only. In fact, in the American non-Muslim mind Muslim implies brown skinned, barbaric, hateful, killing machine – aka terrorist. And the terrorist angle has been brought up again and again and again. Even when the terrorist was Bill Ayers. Even though Bill Ayers is a White man who has been called a “domestic terrorist” the reason it was brought up was not to simply say “hey Obama is friends with a terrorist! He’s dangerous” but rather to say “Obama is friends with a terrorist, so he may in fact be a Muslim, so he is not like Americans, therefore be very scared of him.” Even when they were using a White terrorist it was still very racialized outside of the Black/White dichotomy.

   Muslims have been dragged through and bathed in the mud in this one.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 6:56 pm ¶

9. Joseph wrote:

   @Carmen
   I totally agree…but that is what made his pointed exclusion of Arab/Muslim Americans under that big tent so painful. Of course I understand the political expediency of it–I’m a grown up and this shit is down to the wire. But I didn’t realize how much I’d swallowed for the greater good until Colin Powell’s spoke the truth about Arabs and Muslims and I…had to choke back tears. Finally, I thought. Someone said it.

   Whatever. I know it’s not all about me. Getting Obama into office is the mission but he better fucking shutter Guantanamo in Week One or I’m gonna have something to say about it.

   Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 7:14 pm ¶

10. Eric Daniels wrote:

    I liked the videos and everything that was said, but what African- Americans and White Americans are fighting is racial cold war politics that began with Reagan’s election and encompasses the P.C. culture wars, Katrina, and all the traditional fights that have gone on in this country since it’s founding. Red, Brown, Yellow, Beige and Biracial will not be heard until there is a settlement or violent confrontation between A.A. and Whites.

    I think Obama in many ways has ended the racial cold war and if you listen to talk radio and other sources these people want black blood and think that African- Americans are a threat to this country’s way of life and will do anything to keep Obama (i.e. Negras) from obtaining office and racial retrobution for past actions of racism . The other groups are just buttresses between two ethnic groups who don’t trust each other like in a bad marriage. Like the Bosinans and Serbs we have a history of intense dislike whites couldn’t wipe us out like Native Americans or deport us back to Africa so instead have to look at the results and see their enemy right in front of their faces.

    Unless you are willing to broker a realistic plan of race relations where you will be heard I think Blacks and Whites will always have center stage because one side wants us dead and the other wants their freedom.

    Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 8:38 pm ¶

11. Clara wrote:

    Thanks for posting the videos! I’m particularly happy to see Adriel from Ill-Literacy featured on Racialicious. They’re an awesome spoken word collective, and they have some great material on race.

    Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 10:29 pm ¶

12. DJ Black Adam wrote:

    Hmmmm. You know, I think what people who are not “Black” or “White” in America need to understand, is that the majority culture in the country is “White”, and from the onset of this nation it isn’t really a matter of who is White, it is a matter of who ISN’T Black and who IS.

    What newly arrived immigrants need to understand, and what I think most fail to, is that when you came or come to the United States, there are some social dynamics that have allready been hard coded into the American psyche, and hate it or love it, peoples parts are already picked for them to some degree.

    And everyone seems to understand it to the degree that they most often makes sure they are NOT identifed as Black, rather they are dark and Asian like some Phillipinos or Indians, or Latinos with some AFrican Ancestry or the ones who Native American ancestry makes that unclear.

    I hear what these people are trying to say, but on the other hand I dont’ think they truly understand what racist principles predicated by the denuminzation of the African Slave trade this country is built upon.

    It is not that other ethnicities or “socalled races” don’t exist in the American political or social debate, BUT, in all actuallity, the majority culture will be more accepting to the point of assimilation any other group than those who are descendents of the African Slaves in the Americas and the Caribean and even Black African immigrants or anyone who to closely resembles us.

    BUT, that’s just how I see it…

    Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 11:42 pm ¶

13. Atena wrote:

    @ DJ Black Adam: White identity as a social construct is about exclusion. Lots of people are excluded. And lots of people get conditional-partial access to privileges depending on what they have to offer, or what they are willing to sacrifice – this includes black people.

    There is no single majority culture. There is a enormous, shifting fabric of cultural norms, expectations, variations. There are institutions that are connected, but not monolithic. There are traditions which evolve, and rules to which there are exceptions. Anything you pin to the concept of “majority culture” will eventually blow away on the wind.

    Obviously black/white dynamics is its own particular diaphanous sub-beast. Other groups are totally entitled to raise voices about how it feels to be marginalized and ignored/lip-serviced-by that sub-beast again and again.

    Your statements seem kind of broad (please be careful of statements including the words ‘everyone’ and ‘most’ – especially if you don’t provide evidence to back up your statements), and your tone feels unnecessarily dismissive of these voices.

    And I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but Kelly certainly isn’t a “newly arrived immigrant.” If you meant something else, that was unclear.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 6:01 am ¶

14. Carmen Van Kerckhove wrote:

    > that is what made his pointed exclusion of Arab/Muslim Americans under that big tent so painful.

    Such a good point, Joseph. And yes, when Powell said what he said, I too was jumping up and down. Finally!

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 9:17 am ¶

15. DJ Black Adam wrote:

    @Atena:

    “There is no single majority culture.”

    You are denying an actuality with that, not an opinion, our culture is basically western European, which basically means: “White”.

    You wrote:

    “Other groups are totally entitled to raise voices about how it feels to be marginalized and ignored/lip-serviced-by that sub-beast again and again.”

    Never inferred that the weren’t, My point of contention is that I find most “non-blacks” overall dismissive in regard to the actuality we have here in the United States, and that is what I perceive in this, could I be wrong, sure, but that’s how I feel about it.

    As for Kelly not being a recent immigrant, I guess I should clarify, people who do not identify ethnically with the descendents of African the slaves or the descendents of those who oppressed the African slaves for whatever reason

    You also wrote: “Your statements seem kind of broad (please be careful of statements including the words ‘everyone’ and ‘most’ – especially if you don’t provide evidence to back up your statements), and your tone feels unnecessarily dismissive of these voices.

    It fits whom it fits, I made a comment, if you want a thesis in MLA format, I guess I’ll just have to keep my comments to myself, because I don’t have the time for that.

    And my tone is agitated, as I find the tone of this topic unnecessarily dismissive of the actuality we have here in the United States.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 11:45 am ¶

16. a.b.c. wrote:

    I don’t think Adriel used the word bigot correctly.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 12:36 pm ¶

17. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @DJ BlackAdam/Atena –

    One of the reasons that I write here about race is because I like to be a part of an integrated conversation. I feel it is far too easy for non whites to ignore each other’s conversations and struggles and continue to otherize each other. So, there’s that.

    However, I understand why you (DJBA) feel the way you do – and you are not the first person to articulate such feelings on this site. The problem is America was founded on a black and white binary – it’s entrenched into the soil. (Indigenous folks are often left out of these conversations as well, their blood was the first to spill into this land. But I digress.) So, a lot of our discussions about race operate from this binary, as many times American blacks are placed lowest on the racial hierarchy. This shifts, but the dynamic is always there.

    There is a paper by Andrea Smith I have referenced before, titled something like “The Pillars of White Supremacy and Heteropartiarchy” that I plan to write about when we launch the “Things We Do to Each Other” series. In essence, Smith argues that one of the issues she has with the term “oppression olympics” is that it does not take in account how groups will co-opt each other’s experiences, and yet not stand in solidarity with one another. It’s an enormous concept, yet very true. And it deserves more discussion. So I think that may be where you are chafing.

    However, I find it difficult to see what will be gained by denying someone else their truth. Kelly Tsai’s video is a great example of this marginalization. I feel like fighting over the depth of experiences with racism misconstrues the focus – we shouldn’t really be fighting each other, but working on dismantling this unjust system.

    But again, those are just my $0.02 – your experiences may vary.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 1:57 pm ¶

18. DJ Black Adam wrote:

    @Latoya:

    “In essence, Smith argues that one of the issues she has with the term “oppression olympics” is that it does not take in account how groups will co-opt each other’s experiences, and yet not stand in solidarity with one another.”

    Interesting point, I will have to consider that.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 3:46 pm ¶

19. Daniel wrote:

    @Latoya, good response. I always enjoy your posts. I am actually very interested in defining the systems of racism. I have been unable to identify any one system, but there does seem to be a multitude of separate systems. When I research this and when I simply observe, I see many disparate groups, organizations and individuals engaging in racist activities. I have yet to discover one homogeneous group of racists that control all racist behavior around the world. There’s always a lot of finger pointing, anger and accusations, but a paucity of solutions. Without clear, universal understanding of such systems and racism itself, the task of dismantling such mechanisms is nearly impossible. Why do you think that this is so hard when the evidence of racism is so blatantly obvious all over the world?

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 3:47 pm ¶

20. Atena wrote:

    Latoya – I always appreciate your responses – thanks!

    What you cite re: the Smith article is compelling to me. That reflects the sentiment that I actually appreciated in what DJBA seemed to be getting at – that the struggles black people experience in the USA are of a particular kind that deserve acknowledgment as they are foundational and integral to the fabric of America.

    I think that acknowledgment of that on our part does not necessitate dismissal of other voices.

    DJ Black Adam – I hope that my criticism of your comment did not seem to be a personal attack. I admit that my smartassedness does get the better of me sometimes – my apologies if that outweighed my actual point.

    While I take issue with the tone of your original message (which has nothing to do with wanting thesis-grade responses – I just think you should be more careful about what you say and how you treat other people’s voices. We can agree to disagree about “our culture” being white…), and think other points you made are inaccurate or over-simplistic, I don’t dismiss the validity of your point about social dynamics being coded into the American psyche (such as it is). I don’t begrudge you your agitation, but I did feel the need to question your statements. Thanks for responding.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 5:59 pm ¶

21. Cecelia wrote:

    Nice, I like Kelly’s piece too! It is serious, humorous, factual and it is molded in a creative way to present the topic(s).

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 6:32 pm ¶

22. Latoya Peterson wrote:

    @DJ Black Adam –

    Please do. It was an illuminating thing for me to read, because it accurately diagnosed the prick of irritation I would feel when people would cite the civil rights movement as a buoy for their own movement, but also backhandedly bash blacks. I’ll post more of the essay when I do a full post on it. But I do plan to explore this dynamic in more detail. As Joseph and Sobia have noted above, leaving certain people outside of the larger conversation leads nowhere positive – and yet, part of the issue is not knowing how to deal with race outside of black and white, probably because we never dealt with that in the first place.

    @Atena –

    No, acknowledgment does not need to diminish other voices. But I do think much of this is a lot of the mindset we have bought into – that there will not be enough equality to go around. And please, keep in mind that as Smith states, blacks occupy a unique state in the US. I just rejected a piece about racism that Asian Americans face because it contained lines that would cause a lot of of Muslims and blacks to feel diminished. I informed the writer where things were problematic, and she informed me that she did not care to change the wording – what she said was true and she didn’t care about what other people took from the piece. And it is a shame, because the piece overall was solid. However, often times discourse between different racial groups gets derailed because people get so caught up in telling their truth that they forget to see how other people in their coalition may respond. I occassionally publish things that may be considered controversial, but only with the understanding that the author is writing to everyone on the site – not just people of their own ethnic group. I believe, in many racial conversations, a lot of misunderstandings spring from the fact that people only *truly* feel their own oppression – and so they tend to minimize everyone else’s.

    @Daniel –

    Good questions. There are many different forms of racism and ethnic based oppression around the world, which are complicated by issues of class, gender, colonization, and globalization.

    The most pervasive form of racism is currently white supremacy, and that form includes a whole lot more than Klansmen, or individual acts of hatred – it extends to things like the normalization of white, western values, religions, beauty norms, and government systems. This is the one that we spend the most time analyzing on the site. It does not mean that other forms of racism do not exist, but it is not the predominant form of racism around the globe.

    If you study racism, you find that it functions a lot like HIV – it’s a mutating virus, taking on multiple forms and strains. And so, in Carmen and I’s opinion, fighting racism is the most effective when it takes a broader view of all different kinds of struggles and locates the patterns of oppression. We learn this by looking into other movements, other areas, and other areas of social justice – often, the same tactics are just wrapped in new language. And, we make much more headway when the conversations are integrated – that way, we can analyze patterns, share strategies, and hopefully, build a larger coalition.

    Posted 24 Oct 2008 at 6:55 pm ¶

23. Daniel wrote:

    @ Latoya: Good analogy re HIV and I agree. White supremacy (perhaps the most ridiculous, unfounded doctrine or belief in the history of earth) is definitely pervasive as well as perverse. Sadly, I have encountered many individuals who actually believe that people with light skin and straight hair are superior to other kinds of people. I confront such idiots and I have suffered the consequences, sometimes social and economic and sometimes physical. I sometimes think that the only way racism can be defeated is if each non-racist individual steps up and confronts each racist individual. This becomes difficult when we find out that some of the racists we must confront are friends, parents, spouses, coworkers and bosses. (Who often successfully hide their racist beliefs for years) I have found fighting against racism to be a lonely endeavor. I don’t mention any of this to elicit sympathy because I don’t need any. I only mention these things to perhaps explain some of the reasons that racism remains such a pervasive force in today’s world. I know that a lot of white people do not actively speak out against racism because they feel damned either way. They may get attacked by a non-white person (verbally) for being white and having privilege and told to shut up because they are the problem. Then, they get attacked by their white friends and family for exposing somebody’s racism. It often becomes a classic damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario. I don’t excuse anybody for not speaking up about racism because of this, but it is a real dynamic that exists. I love the idea of a larger coalition and I hope that it becomes a reality soon.

    Posted 27 Oct 2008 at 7:45 am ¶

24. Jeremy Pierce wrote:

    Luis gives a very interesting argument against the more skeptical approach to particular racism charges in ambiguous cases. I’m not convinced, but comment defending a more skeptical approach got kind of long, so I’ve just posted it separately here.

    Posted 27 Oct 2008 at 4:54 pm ¶