Comments

1. Rob Schmidt wrote:

   Interesting…especially when compared to the results for other ethnic groups. Here are the numbers from a September poll:

   http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-22-race-poll_N.htm

   Whites: McCain 56%, Obama 36%.

   Hispanics: Obama 57%, Obama 33%.

   Blacks: Obama 92%, McCain 4%.

   Why do you think Asians as a whole are more conservative than Hispanics or blacks? Is it their income or education levels? Their traditional family values? Or something else? Obama’s skin color, perhaps?

   P.S. With McCain’s disastrous sleaze attacks and “campaign suspension,” the numbers have shifted toward Obama since September, of course.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 8:55 am ¶

2. Rob Schmidt wrote:

   As for the large number of undecided Asian voters, this op/ed piece seems relevant:

   http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-oe-klein12-2008oct12,0,331306.story

   It’s a bit odd that we give the Undecided Voter such a privileged place in American elections. Because from a civic standpoint, few creatures are as contemptible. This election has dominated every form of American news media for the better part of two years. Newspapers, magazines, networks, cable, radio, blogs, people on street corners with signs — it’s really been rather hard to miss. Further, it pits two extremely different candidates against each other. Whether your metric is age, ideology, temperament, race, funding sources, healthcare plans or Iraq strategies, it would be hard to imagine two men presenting a starker contrast.

   But despite this, the Undecided Voter wakes up each morning and says, in effect, “I dunno.” And the political system panders to him. Undecided voters are believed to be the decisive slice of the American electorate, so they get the debates and the ads and the focus groups (assuming, that is, that they live in a battleground state).

   [...]

   [M]any of those who claim to be undecided are not. Some don’t want to admit their preference. In their paper, “Swing Voters? Hah!” political scientists Adam Clymer and Ken Winneg amassed substantial data suggesting that very few undecided voters are truly indecisive. Examining the 2004 election, Clymer and Winneg found that even the most hard-core of undecided voters were fairly predictable.

   They asked the 4% of their sample that claimed to be undecided to rate the two candidates in early October. When they went back to the same people after the election, more than 80% had in fact voted for whichever candidate they’d rated most highly a month earlier.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 9:03 am ¶

3. Jess wrote:

   I’m on with Rob about the undecided voter. It seems odd to privilege people who seem to not be very engaged.

   That said, I’m not so sure it’s as much “undecided” (a rather silly term) as much as “persuadable.” That’s a different animal that often gets called undecided when they are really not undecided in the sense of “I dunno” but undecided in the sense of “convince me to vote for X.”

   There’s also a dynamic that few pollsters study deeply, and that’s the people who aren’t voting affirmatively for someone as much as they are against someone. For example, when evangelical voters get fired up, a lot fo the time they are voting against the guy who they feel doesn’t share their values as much as they are voting for the person who does.

   Same thing with many of us more liberal types. Because of the rightward shift of the Democratic party, we ended up voting against Republicans rather than for Democrats. It’s one reason the Democrats have had a lot of problems in the last few cycles. You can’t tell the union people or African Americans “hey, you have nowhere else to go” too often before people just stay the hell home or start voting on different criteria — hello “values voters.”

   As to Asian Americans, I want to read the study a bit, but I can guess a few reasons they were heavily republican in some areas:

   1. Filipinos in particular are relatively conservative Catholics, so the values thing appeals. Also, if the experience here in Queens is any guide, they came to the US to make money and send it home, and in some cases build lives here. So they buy into the whole “go to America and be a success thing” — I mean, they kind of have to. On top of that, there’s a strong connection between many Filipinos and the US military for historical reasons. Even though they have very mixed feelings about the US presence in their country, when they come to the States life is about the whole work hard and be a success thing, and that feeds into the GOP values narrative. (This is not to say liberals don’t work hard, I’m talking about narrative, not reality).

   2. For Chinese folks it would be dependent on when they came and where they live. As far as I can tell they are Democrats here but New York is so heavily Democratic the sample may be way off. In San Fran the Chinese candidates ran as Democrats, but if annyone has an example of a Chinese guy running on the GOP ticket I would love to hear it.

   3. Koreans have many of the same issues as Filipinos — the ones that are here tend to skew towards evangelical Christianity — in fact Korea is the second nation in Asia to “go Christian” in terms of numbers of people and self-identifying. (The first was the Philippines for very different reasons). That would give some structural advantage to Republicans.

   4. Vietnamese — not sure that enough of them vote to make a difference except on a precinct by precinct basis. You may have the same phenomenon as Cubans, where the people that came here to begin with were fleeing a Socialist government, and that ain’t gonna make them vote for liberals of either party. But generations change, and as with Cubans the younger kids aren’t going to be thinking in those terms as much.

   5. The Japanese would be the most liberal group here, I think, and that’s an artifact of history as well. they have been here long enough that they are confident in their status as citizens (same with many Chinese people) and have a history that makes them acutely conscious of marginalization and its consequences. Of course, this is a gross oversimplification.

   These are just a few hypotheses, I haven’t even touched on other groups of Asians and all this is really, really oversimplified at many levels, based on some reporting I did back in the day. Much has likely changed since a lot of my information is probably a bit out of date.

   But it all means that Asian-Americans truly are swing voters, and even the term “Asian American voter” may be too expansive as different communities have very different histories.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 9:37 am ¶

4. atlasien wrote:

   “Why do you think Asians as a whole are more conservative than Hispanics or blacks?” is a terrible question. There’s no single common Asian traditional family value.

   You’d have to define conservative. Conservative in terms of what? Religion? Tax policies? Attitudes toward change? Membership in the Democratic party versus Independent versus Republican? That Asians support Obama a lot more than white people, slightly less than Latinos and a lot less than black people doesn’t say hardly anything about their conservatism.

   For example, Black people vote overwhelmingly Democratic and have done so historically for a long time. But many black people hold very socially conservative views.

   African-Americans are predominantly Protestant, Latinos are predominantly Catholic, Asian-Americans are spread all over the religious map. Length of stay in the country has a huge impact on attitudes toward change, as well: newer arrivals tend to be insecure and cling more to the status quo, second generation and onwards are more receptive to messages of change. And then older Cuban- and Vietnamese-American subgroups skew Latino and Asian stats because they tend to be single-issue anti-communist Republicans. It’s a LOT more complicated than pointing fingers and saying “Asians hate blacks!”

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 9:44 am ¶

5. Jess wrote:

   @altasien
   True that. Relationships get awfully complicated sometimes.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 11:27 am ¶

6. Wow wrote:

   Not all Asians are conservative.I’m an Asian American myself and I consider myself kind of liberal.And yes,I’m Korean American.That’s just a lame stereotype.I hate the looks that people give me when I wear short skirts or tell them that I support abortion.It’s stupid.Why should anyone be conservative because of the amount of melanin in their skin cells?

   On the election issue,yeah,I support Obama.I’m not supporting any racist candidate.McCain vowed to hate us for as long as he lived(read it from SF Gate).He’s not getting my vote.I don’t know why some Asian Americans out there would want to vote for him(esp.Vietnamese Americans),but I guess they just want to.Oh well.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 2:19 pm ¶

7. jmn wrote:

   I had a debate with a fellow Vietnamese American family friend from Virginia (she was visiting us in Texas) on why she was supporting McCain. When the fact was brought up that McCain stated that he hated “gooks,” she kept repeating that he meant only his North Vietnamese captors. Even when I brought up the fact that the majority of white Americans think of “gook” as any person of Asian decent and that for a world leader using the word “gook” is deplorable and sends out the message that it’s ok for “Joe Six-Pack” to use that term, she continued to deny that it was a hurtful statement. The fact that there are a lot of Vietnamese Americans canvassing for McCain in Virginia is maddening in itself.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 2:39 pm ¶

8. atlasien wrote:

   For many Vietnamese-American Republicans, the reason is simple: “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”… even if he likes to use the word “gook”. The idea is, anyone who fights against communism haas to be good, because communism represented the complete ruination of their old lives.

   I actually don’t know that much about the Vietnamese-American community, but I’ve heard the dynamic is somewhat similar to Cuban-Americans, and I when lived in Miami I saw how deep the hate was for Castro. Some people would probably have voted for a ticket of President Satan/VP Zombie Hitler if kicking out Castro was part of their platform. Then again, a lot of the Cuban-Americans I knew were younger, apolitical and didn’t connect at all to the hardline anticommunism of their parents.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 2:49 pm ¶

9. Joseph wrote:

   @jmn

   “…she kept repeating that he meant only his North Vietnamese captors. ”

   I have seen this exact sort of defensive “splitting” of eastern identity into us/them categories in favor of conservative American (read: white) “values” in my own Arab-American family. I cosigns and I’d add that while it is not uncommon for immigrants from lots of different places to skew conservative I think there is an extra pressure on eastern peoples to “prove” their patriotism.

   But I echo your frustration.

   Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 6:19 pm ¶

10. JC wrote:

    John McCain lost me at the word “gook”.

    Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 6:25 pm ¶

11. geo wrote:

    interesting.
    i’ve always felt that asian-americans were always ignored in election polling. i’ve always been curious about their perspective on this election.

    Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 6:28 pm ¶

12. CVT wrote:

    Asian-Americans have been largely ignored when it comes to any U.S. election. Partly because we’re generally thought of as “foreign” by the majority of Americans (of any race).

    But it’s also largely due to the fact that “we” are such a ridiculously broad category of people and ethnicities without true unity, therefore it’s nearly impossible to appeal to “us” in the same way that a politician can gun for other racial groups (i.e. African-Americans).

    There are dozens upon dozens (I want to say “hundreds,” but that might be a bit high) of ethnicities that fall under the “Asian-American” umbrella, so it’s insane to try to lump “us” together as having any particular voting trends. “We” are also first generation immigrants on down to a hundred fifty years of living in this country. All of which makes us so divided in terms of priorities and political leanings that going for the “Asian-American” vote is an utter farce.

    Which, of course, doesn’t keep the current batch of politicians from trying. Good luck with that. If “we” still can’t band together more readily to strengthen up our civil rights and make our voices heard, then I don’t really think it’s going to happen with “our” undecided voters.

    Posted 13 Oct 2008 at 8:33 pm ¶

13. Don wrote:

    CVT your wrong and right if you are Asian
    Let’s get this straight. There are Asians like myself who were born here and there are those who are naturalized US citizens who become Americans being born in those respective Asian countries and there are those who are just permanent US residents or Green Card holders and there are those who are students here or overstay their tourist visa. So some or a size of us 15 million in the US are not citizens and can not vote.

    Some of us are banding together through websites http://www.asianamericansforobama.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American
    http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/aapihome
    Yes we are a small minority with different ethnicities but some of us want to show a united front.
    I am Asian Indoneisan American and I will vote for the Barack-Biden ticket. Yes and he has an Asian half Indonesian and Asian brother in Law Maya Soetoro-Ng Konrad Ng. Maybe this is also a lure for other Asians in America who look up to him as a fellow minority in America and has Asian relatives who push him self through education and hard work and seeing him break racial barriers to work for all Americans.
    I don’t like McCain’s gook remark several years ago but I respect him for admonishing that white woman who said Barack was an Arab this past week. Oh God. I hope on election day all like minded Americans will help elect him our next President.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 12:40 am ¶

14. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    My first message should read

    Hispanics: Obama 57%, McCain 33%.

    Unless you dispute the poll results, it’s a fact that “Asians as a whole are more conservative than Hispanics or blacks.” Unless you believe Asians are voting mindlessly, there’s a reason they favor McCain more than Hispanics or blacks do. If you want to understand Asian voters and thus gain their votes, my question is excellent, not “terrible.”

    The reasons may be complicated, but they aren’t unfathomable. Clever researchers could figure them out and probably have figured them out already. It’s simply a matter of asking the right questions.

    I doubt these researchers would have to define or even use the word “conservative.” They could query Asian voters on any number of specific issues. “If you favor McCain, is it because of his religion? His tax policies? His attitudes toward change? His party membership? His race?” Etc.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 2:49 am ¶

15. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    Here’s someone who was willing to answer the supposedly unanswerable question:

    http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=884

    My theory is that the main factor is not racism at all, but conservatism. I don’t mean conservative ideology, I mean conservative outlook. Many of these voters are newer Americans, or they have ties to communities where others are newer Americans. The mindset is often “don’t rock the boat”. I know some people with resident cards who are nervous about going to quite peaceful political demonstrations… “just in case”. Another example: an ex-roommate of mine, a foreign student, once gave a large donation of money to the Fraternal Order of the Police. Since he didn’t have any money at all to spare, we asked him why on earth he did that… it was simply because he got a phone call from an FOP telemarketer. “In my country, when the police ask for money, you give it to them.”

    This kind of anxiety can continue over into citizenship and be imparted to the next generation. It feeds into conservatism and works against lesser-known transformational candidates like Barack Obama.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 2:53 am ¶

16. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    As for the differences between Asian subgroups, researchers could handle that too. They’d tailor their questionnaires to each subgroup and aggregate the answers at the end. They might learn that Vietnamese Americans prefer McCain because he’s a war hero and Korean Americans because he’s a Christian. When you added those results, you’d know why Asians as a whole are more conservative than Hispanics or blacks.

    More on the subject:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0507/4213.html

    Of course, referring to Asian-Americans as a “group” is an imperfect definition. After all, they are more likely to identify in nationality terms — as Korean, Vietnamese or Chinese — than as a pan-ethnic bloc. It makes the most sense to think of them as local blocs, rather than as a nationally cohesive group that can be characterized as monolithic.

    A smart campaign will approach differences between local Asian voting blocs by accumulating extensive knowledge about the resident population, relying upon volunteers, local operatives and a higher-than-usual amount of shoe leather to assemble a proper understanding.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 3:03 am ¶

17. lxy wrote:

    If people want to determine whether a certain group is “Conservative” or “Liberal” based on its support for McCain or Obama, your arguments are based upon a false premise–that Barack Obama is a progressive or even liberal to begin with.

    Behind all the empthy public relations and rhetoric about “change,” Barack Obama represents the interests of American capitalism and the American Empire.

    Just look at his support for that massive $700 billion bill to bailout Wall Street. This bailout bill is one of the greatest transfers of wealth in US history–from the poor to the rich.

    This is not to mention Obama’s foreign policy which is just as aggressive and ruthless as any Conservative.

    Barack Obama does not represent progressive change. He is not a transformational candidate.

    In fact, he represents the very opposite: the efforts of the more farsighted wing of the US political establishment to contain, coopt, and forestall grassroots rebellion and agitation for change.

    Barack Obama: Faithful Tool of U.S. Imperialism and Empire
    http://www.blackcommentator.com/271/271_kir_obama_tool_us_imperialism_printer_friendly.html

    The Obama-McCain debate: Right-wing politicians agree on bailout and militarism
    http://wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/deba-s29.shtml

    Establishment Messiah
    http://www.takimag.com/site/print/2292/

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 7:44 am ¶

18. Jess wrote:

    @Wow
    I don’t think Koreans are all conservative politically, but there are what statisticians call structural advantages. Like, if you have a state with loads of evangelical Christians, they are more likely to vote Republican. They don’t all vote that way, but if I were a Democratic strategist I certainly would figure I had my work cut out for me.

    @ixy
    Yes, we all know that Barack Obama isn’t running for the Socialist Workers Party. None of us is arguing that he’s some kind of left progressive.

    But he is to the left of McCain by any definition. And his foreign policy, while not as different as I would like, at least gives a nod to the idea of, y’know, not bombing everyone. Are you so unaware of political reality? Ideological purity is one reason leftists I know manage to alienate everyone around them. You get no social change at all if you dismiss the rest of the voters as stupid or hopeless.

    And remember, one of the reasons the bailout package went through (though it was almost stopped) was because there really isn’t any organized left opposition in the US. It will take a long time to build but there are Democrats getting elected who have unabashedly progressive agendas. It’s our job to get people like that elected and undo the rightward shift of the terms of debate.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 8:05 am ¶

19. Rob Schmidt wrote:

    I’m pretty sure that voting for Obama or McCain is highly correlated with one’s overall political outlook (liberal or conservative). But it’s true that this discussion is based on that premise.

    Here are some findings from Angry Asian Man’s study that help explain why Asians are less likely to vote for Obama:

    http://www.naasurvey.com/assets/NAAS-DC-pr.pdf

    The research shows that support for the candidates does vary by Asian American ethnic groups. Among those who have made up their mind on a candidate, two-thirds of Vietnamese Americans support McCain; Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, and Indian Americans support Obama by more than a three-to-one ratio; and Korean and Filipino Americans who are likely voters also support Obama over McCain, but the gap is much smaller, with ratios less than 1.4 to 1.

    Many of the differences can be attributed to party affiliation, according to the researchers. Vietnamese Americans identify with the Republican Party over the Democratic Party by nearly a two-to-one ratio, while the opposite is true for other ethnic groups such as Indian Americans and Chinese Americans.

    Still, as UC Berkeley associate professor of political science Taeku Lee says, “A very large number of Asian Americans are non-partisan. The Asian American vote is very much up for grabs: Nonpartisans who see either the Democratic or Republican party as closer to them on issues that matter to them are much likelier to vote for that party’s candidate.”

    Among the survey’s other findings:

    The majority of Asian Americans who voted in the primary supported Hillary Clinton over Obama by nearly 2 to 1; but 59% of Clinton supporters now plan to vote for Obama and 10 percent support McCain.

    About 80 percent of likely voters who are Asian American list the economy as one of the most important problems the nation faces, followed by the war in Iraq. On both issues, there are strongly divided opinions between Obama and McCain supporters. “Even as the Iraq war has receded from the headlines as concerns about the economy have become more prominent, the war still plays a powerful role in the Asian American choice for president,” says Jane Junn, an associate professor of political science at Rutgers.

    Overall, 32 percent of all Asian Americans identify themselves as Democrats; 14 percent as Republicans; 19 percent as independents; and 35 percent as nonpartisan, not fitting into any of the major party categories.

    One third of Asian American citizens get informed about politics from Asian-language television and newspapers, and more than one in four (28%) say they would use Asian-language ballot materials.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 9:29 am ¶

20. atlasien wrote:

    @Rob: Not sure if you did that on purpose, but I wrote that article you just quoted from Rachel’s Tavern. Your very first question didn’t define conservative or conservatism, which is why I thought it was so bad. Now that you’re specifying what you mean by it, I don’t think we’re in disagreement anymore.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 9:38 am ¶

21. octogalore wrote:

    One issue not discussed (or maybe I missed it) above is that many Asians are business owners or partners in small businesses. I have family members and a business partner who fit this description. They are liberal on social issues, but aren’t in favor of increased taxes on profitable small businesses.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 10:00 pm ¶

22. dirkdiggler wrote:

    so you can’t imagine any asian person who can support mccain because he said the word “gooks” to refer to his captors. and he may not have, and perhaps still doesn’t, truly comprehend how offensive and hurtful that is. of course it’s offensive, and it would be helpful if he came out (which i think he may have done) and said that the use of that term is fundamentally racist. but has that now become the litmus test? so anyone who has uttered any racist slur should be automatically barred from consideration, no matter the conditions under which that person may have made those statements?

    to be honest, i’ll give him a pass. if i went through what he had to endure, “gook” is the least of what i would be calling these individuals who tortured me and my friends for years. more troubling for me is not what mccain said while in captivity, but what so many people who feel comfortable making bigoted and racist statements in blogs and the comments sections of nearly every website out there. and many from people who call themselves liberals and bo supporters. but we are so willing to give those people a pass under the false premise of “free speech,” while at the same time condemning an individual who uttered a slur under circumstances beyond what many of us can ever imagine.

    so you can’t imagine anyone supporting mccain, esp asians? i can. what i don’t understand is how self-affirmed liberals who so strenuously support a candidate like bo can abide bigots in their own ranks.

    Posted 14 Oct 2008 at 10:35 pm ¶

23. lxy wrote:

    @Jess

    Your arguments are typical of the dismissive rationalizations that
    (White) “progressives” and Democrats in particular always spout.

    You glibly say that “we” all know that Obama is not a left progressive.

    You should tell that to his campaign then, as this is one of the selling points that his grassroots campaign supporters are pushing: Obama represents progressive change.

    “But he is to the left of McCain by any definition. And his foreign policy, while not as different as I would like, at least gives a nod to the idea of, y’know, not bombing everyone. Are you so unaware of political reality? Ideological purity is one reason leftists I know manage to alienate everyone around them. You get no social change at all if you dismiss the rest of the voters as stupid or hopeless. ”

    Whining about “ideological purity” is another pseudo-argument that these so-called progressives usually resort to. But it avoids the actual policies of the latest Democrat they are pimping for.

    And I think it’s you that need a political reality check about Obama’s foreign policy.

    You say that Obama “gives a nod” to not bombing everyone or that he is to the “left” of McCain.

    Tell that to Pakistan, where Obama advocated, y’know, bombing that nation as far back as 2007. In fact, McCain was *critical* of Obama on this issue at the time, suggesting that he was being “simplistic to warn of bombing Pakistan.”

    And as the first linked article by Larry Pinkney suggests, Obama’s foreign policy in Southwest Asia in general is about *expanding* the war from Iraq to Central Asia in everything but name.

    “It will take a long time to build but there are Democrats getting elected who have unabashedly progressive agendas. It’s our job to get people like that elected and undo the rightward shift of the terms of debate.”

    Getting Democrats elected is the job of people who want to channel dissent back into the US system with the false promise of “progressive change.”

    This is the same Democratic Party that played a key role in pushing the bailout bill and has supported everything from America’s aggression against Iraq to the phony War on Terrorism to the Patriot Act to the Homeland Security Dept.

    If you honestly believe that the Democrat Party will advance fundamental political change, I got some stock in Bear Stearns I want to sell you.

    Moreover, it is NOT just the so-called Left that is calling Obama out.

    Justin Raimondo, author of “Establishment Messiah” is a Right Wing libertarian–not a leftist of any kind.

    As Raimondo suggests, “Obama is the Establishment’s trump card, the elite’s last hope of salvaging its power, prestige, and wealth from the coming implosion.” The idea, he argues, is “that by supporting Obama they can avoid social revolution.”

    And if there is one thing that the mainstream American establishment (both Liberals and Conservatives) fears, it’s political revolt from below that they cannot control.
    
    Mod Note – Ixy, this is not really the place to unleash a rant about how not progressive Obama is. Unless it has to do with race, it really shouldn’t be here. I’m letting you respond to Jess, but you two can take this conversation over to DailyKos, Jack & Jill, or one of the other politically focused blogs. – LDP

    Posted 15 Oct 2008 at 1:31 am ¶

24. dirkdiggler wrote:

    is it just me or is bo comfortable only explicitly calling out certain countries, like china, japan, and s. korea, on trade imbalance? he doesn’t seem to explicitly call out any other country that the u.s. has a trade imbalance with. but we have imbalances with a whole slew of countries. the fact that he explicitly calls out only certain countries (asian countries) may be because it’s much more politically palatable. you get the blue collar white vote (bashing asian countries has always been good sport there), and you don’t antagonize the latino vote (by not calling out central and south american countries). really, if you’re going to ostracize any group, it’s gotta be the asians right? not a strong voting bloc, relatively speaking, and if they’re offended, no one really listens to them anyway, right?

    am i imagining this? i would actually appreciate someone proving to me that he’s not targeting a particular demographic for his own political ends.

    Posted 15 Oct 2008 at 9:05 pm ¶

25. Tina wrote:

    I’m Vietnamese-American. As I’ve known that the Vietnamese communities are voting for McCain for the following reasons: First, he was our fellow during Vietnam war. Second, he supported the Vietnamese communities. Third, under McCain Amemdment, many Vietnameses are allowed to come to the U.S. to live and to reunite with their families. So, we as Vietnamese-Americans, this 2008 election is the great time for us to thank Senator McCain for things he had done for the Vietnamese people. He’s our fellow and I appreciate what he did to our Vietnamese people.

    Posted 06 Nov 2008 at 4:03 am ¶