Stuff white people do: whisper the word black

by guest contributor Macon D, originally published at Stuff White People Do

I made the mistake of going to a local grocery store yesterday when it was very crowded, so I had to spend a long time in line, leaning on my grocery cart. I like to occupy myself at such moments by flipping through those parts of the tabloids that show celebrities at their worst, usually on a beach somewhere.

This time, though, I became engrossed by a conversation that I couldn’t help overhearing, between two middle-aged white women who were right behind me in line. They didn’t mind waiting, with melting frozen pizzas and ice cream, because they were glad to have run into each other.

They had some catching up to do because they hadn’t seen each other in awhile, and I was especially intrigued by their discussion about a long-lost mutual friend.

“Right, Beth!” one of them said. “I haven’t seen her in, oh, ten years, I’d say.”

“Well, you’d be surprised,” the other woman said. “She moved out to California.”

“Yeah? So tell me about it. When did she move?”

“About five years ago. But the surprising part is that she married a black guy.”

Now, as I write this, I realize that I don’t know of a way to indicate whispering in written dialogue, without somehow saying outside of that dialogue that the speaker is doing so. Italics mean the opposite–they indicate various forms of emphasis. I can’t think of a way to indicate, typographically, that this white woman had lowered her head a bit, and then lowered her voice, as she basically whispered the word “black.”

“Oh,” the other woman said. “Um. So?”

Good for you, I thought, as other woman’s face reddened a bit.

“Well,” she said, “that’s just surprising.”

“Why?” said the other woman. “A lot of people do that now.”

“Yeah, well. I guess I just never thought that Beth would do that.”

It was my turn to unload my cart, so I missed the rest of their catching-up. But I think that part of it was over anyway.

What interested me, of course, was that whispering by a white person of the word “black.” I’ve heard white people do that many times, and I’m not fully sure why they do it. Not that all of those who do it necessarily do it for the same reason. Or reasons.

One probable reason that a lot of white people whisper the word “black” is that they think it’s impolite to mention race. America is supposed to be “colorblind” now, and so, the common white thinking goes, “we” are not supposed to notice race, let alone point it out. Or even name it. So, when we do point it out, we we should do that . . . discreetly.

Other observers of American racial habits and customs have noticed this phenomenon, and I actually borrowed my post title from an article that I remember from a ways back, “Whispering Black (or Little White) Lies,” by Molly Secours.

In her article, Secours offers her own anecdote about a similar moment:

While searching for real estate in Nashville, I encountered a pleasant and accommodating middle-aged women who showed me some property in the Belmont area. Although I wasn’t interested in the place, she seemed eager to help me locate something more suited to my taste. She assured me that her partner managed many properties and felt confident he would have something available in the near future. She promised to have him call me as soon as possible.

Before we parted I inquired as to the location of another apartment that interested me. Leaning in close and confidential she advised me to be careful because although the area in which I was looking was close by, it was still “coming around.” As my mind and heart raced, I tried to appear as though I didn’t know what “coming around” meant.

Normally among whites this coded language is clearly understood with no explanation necessary. But I wanted to hear her say it. And she did. In a sweet maternal tone she warned me of the dangers of the neighborhood because there were still a lot of “blacks” living in the area. And she did what white people often do. She whispered the word “black” as if to protect a coveted secret.

But why whisper? Was she afraid someone would hear her who wasn’t white? Was it because black people don’t know they are black? Or was it to soften her insinuation that blacks are undesirable to live with? The only certainty is that she must have felt confident that I would understand and appreciate her warning.

Secours goes on to say that she’s not sure why she did what she did next–she told a “white lie,” by telling this white woman that she herself was black. The real-estate agent was, shall we say, quite literally appalled. She recovered quickly, and then promptly lost interest in helping Secours find a home.

I usually call out people I know on their racist remarks or jokes, however intentional or unintentional. I’ve also pointed out their whispering of the word “black.” The latter even led to a discussion, once, about why white people do that, with my friend Bill. But I’ve yet to screw up the nerve to pretend that I’m black. I’m not even sure that’s really a good idea.

My friend Bill would never consider himself a “racist.” He doesn’t agree with me that being raised as white in America pretty much makes a person a racist, unless they work to counteract that training. He did agree, though, that suddenly lowering his voice while saying that word was, as he put it, “weird” and “uncalled for.”

He also called me recently to say that he doesn’t do it anymore, and that he wanted to add something to our conversation about it: “I think people whisper or lower their voice with that word because they know at some level that what they’re about to say is racist. But they want to say it anyway. It’s like that PC thing, you know?”

“What PC thing?”

“PC, for ‘politically correct.’ I mean, when people say that, like [Bill lowered his voice again here, but in a louder, more masculine way] ‘This may not be a very PC thing to say, but . . . ‘”

“Ah. That PC thing.”

“Right, that one. I think people usually say ‘PC’ like that because they’re about to say something they know is wrong, but they want to say it anyway.”

“So you mean, lowering your voice when you said ‘black’ was the same thing?”

“Right. It was a way of, sort of, recognizing that what I was about to say was racist, but also that I wanted to go ahead and say it anyway.”

“Huh. I think you’re right about that, Bill.”

Bill and I were on the phone. And suddenly no one was talking.

Someone had to say something, so I said, “But even though you said something ‘racist,’ you yourself . . . you’re not a racist, are you Bill?”

“Me? No. I’m not a racist. Forget that!”

By the way, you can find out more about Molly Secours, who works as an activism-oriented writer, speaker, and filmmaker, at her web site. Secours also appeared in the following CNN segment, from an episode of Paula Zahn’s show NOW that dealt with “Why Students Self-segregate”:

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. saturday night lights « pitiful pearl on 12 Oct 2008 at 12:06 am

    […] people whisper the word “black”? Macon D (from stuff white people do) guest wrote a post on racialicious: What interested me, of course, was that whispering by a white person of the word […]

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  3. Alas, a blog » Blog Archive » Open Thread: Happy Día de la Raza! edition on 13 Oct 2008 at 6:17 am

    […] Why do white people whisper the word “black”? (Curtsy: […]

  4. Five Links That Are Actually Important, 10/27/08 « Our Descent Into Madness on 27 Oct 2008 at 1:54 pm

    […] October 27, 2008 at 12:54 pm (injustice, politics) (racism, voter suppression) 1. On white people whispering the word “black.” […]

Comments

  1. Rika wrote:

    There’s also an old (I think originally Southern) way of referring to someone’s skin color involving taking the index finger and lightly rubbing it over the back of your other hand.
    It’s a wordless way to say someone is black, and it’s very subtle, so it’s hardly ever noticed…aside from the fact that it usually follows “She was *silence” or whatever.
    Honestly, that open silence makes it pretty damn obvious you’re leaving something out -.-

    I’m mixed (white and brazillian), but I’m considered white enough for someone to have a problem with me saying something possibly un-pc. I never actually whispered the word black or any other race until I moved to DC. I’ve found a lot of people (mainly gov’t people) are incredibly sensitive over such things, so when you have a need to mention someone’s race, you’re worried someone’s going to pull you up on racism charges.
    Unfortunately, it happens more than you’d think.

    I think these days, that’s the general reason for it, but the examples you put down were clearly from racists (even if they don’t realize that about themselves).

    But I’ve heard plenty of people who are perfectly comfortable with race lower their voices like that. I don’t only think it’s fear, I think it’s also often a weird misguided consideration for others’ feelings.
    White people are often just worried about *sounding* like they’re racist…no matter what context the actual word is said in.

  2. gracy epstein wrote:

    for a moment I thought I was reading a post from “stuffwhitepeoplelike” ‘casuse they sure as heck like whispering “blacks” and “jews”

  3. Paz wrote:

    I disagree with the lady in the video who said that white people are born racist in the U.S. Racism is something learned. I think most people, regardless of race or ethnicity, hold some sort of prejudice. In my experience, I’ve seen that non-whites are more outwardly racist, while whites are more subtle about it, with the whispering thing. for example.

  4. Fatemeh wrote:

    Great post, and I love your thought process here.
    The whispering thing never made any sense to me, either. I think your deconstruction of it is great. And lol @ the stuffwhitepeoplelike comment!

  5. mohammed wrote:

    i agree with what Paz wrote for the most part…

    however from my experience, racism from minorities towards other minorities and whites is usually as a result of something happening to them to trigger the racism.. very rarely have i heard a minority say they hate ____ people for no specific reason.. its usually due to a cause and effect scenario.

  6. dave wrote:

    I agree, the deconstruction is pretty spot on.

    (I think you need to fix the italics bit in the middle of the post though, for a second I was unsure when you started writing again).

  7. Elly Soar wrote:

    I dno about this post - I think we could have a serious discussion about social hangups of acknowledging race, but I don’t get the feeling that’s what this post is all about. It seems to me the author is more interested in relating a few scandalous stories… which is too bad, cuz I for one would appreciate some direction.

    I don’t whisper the word black, but I’ve definitely tried to talk around people’s skin color before. For instance I have meetings with 30 or so guys who meet twice a year, not always the same people - let’s say there’s one black guy in the entire room and I’m talking to someone who has forgot his name. I admit to going out of my way to try to think of some way to avoid saying “Joe Smith is the black guy over there” — like I will say “oh, Joe Smith is the guy sitting next to Jim Brown” instead - but unfortunately this can feel forced and I notice other white people doing the same sort of thing (usualy following awkward pauses). It’s not because I think Joe Smith doesn’t know he’s black, it’s because I know it’s wrong to define him as the black guy. But at the same time his blackness may be his most salient feature when glancing around the room… To me, how we should be handling this is much more interesting than relating tales of what racist people do to disguise their racism.

  8. BRG wrote:

    The thing I notice? People saying, “I’m not a racist, but…” and then they say something racist.

  9. charlotte wrote:

    Hey, I used to do that when I was a kid, because I was terrified of being considered racist by pointing out that someone was different, or other, than me. Most of my friends at the time were Black, so it wasn’t as though I wanted to disassociate from Black people. I just wanted to avoid hurting anyone - but the discomfort that causes this is really the hurtful thing.

    It was the beginning of thinking about race issues, though. Even as a child, it was very obvious that race was an uncomfortable thing to discuss for the people around me. Ergo, the whisper. It’s only as I’ve become comfortable discussing race openly and publicly that it became bizarre to whisper.

    When I was buying my house, I had a (white) realtor tell my realtor (not white) that I didn’t want to look at a house on a particular street. When we came to take a look at it, it was obvious that this was his code for “Black people live there”.

    Guess what? I bought it. And when he called to inquire a few weeks later, we had great fun telling him exactly which house I’d chosen.

  10. Jamerican Muslimah wrote:

    As a POC has this ever happened to you?

    Someone who is White (a friend, co-worker, acquaintance etc) kept talking about their friend Ray and how much you’d like Ray. They went on and on about Ray. When you finally meet Ray you realize Ray is Black (or Latino, Asian, South Asian etc.)

    It is clear to me that the White friend wanted to tell you that Ray is Black (etc.) but they aren’t supposed to notice race so they just wouldn’t say it. Yet they kept talking about Ray…lol!

    We’re on to you White folk!

  11. G.K. wrote:

    @mohammad

    I co-sign what you said 100%—Rev. Peterson, based on what I heard in the video,acts as if black people are to blame for keeping racism going—he never ONCE mentions the fact that a lot of black racism is due to white racism. What the panelists didn’t point out, and what Secours did in fact try to get in the discussion–what she should have said was that yeah, black people can definitely be racist toward white folks in an everyday personal way, but the system in this country has always from day one been set up to favor white people and allowed them to inject racism into virtually EVERY institution in this society,determining where black people could live,work, get or not get jobs,get more hassled by the police,etc. What I’m saying is that institutional racism by whites has been FAR more effective and destructive than the average black person just hating the average white person. That’s what Rev. Peterson failed to recognize,or even acknowledge with his simplistic analysis. And the white guy was just talking a bunch of bullshit—I guess ALL schools with black kids are just naturally ghetto gang infested schools? Last I checked, white people have ALWAYS been able to be proud of/celebrate their culture because they’re the majority, so what the hell is he bitching about? Well why the hell shouldn’t white kids be bused if its necessary? Historically it’s always been black children who’ve had to deal with the changes due to busing/bear the brunt of it. Besides, white kids need to learn a a young age that so-called white culture is not he end-all be-all for everything or everybody on this planet–the sooner the better.

  12. Erin wrote:

    I can’t even recall how many times I’ve had this happen to me - what’s even more disconcerting is when people assume that because I’m white and they’re white, that it’s okay to say something to me that they KNOW is racist.

    Slightly OT: I’m curious about the choice of the Charles de Lint cover for this piece. Was it just because of the title?
    I ask, because as a fantasy reader, I’ve read several of his books and while I enjoy his storytelling and characters, I’ve definitely noticed a tendency towards Native/Indigenous romanticization (is that a word?) and appropriation. It’s sort of like he’s trying to hard to be a cool, not-racist white guy.

  13. C-Marsh wrote:

    I’m black and I’ve made gestures like this, typically in a room full of white people. Usually when I’m communicating to another POC friend about something, I can look at that person and rub my finger over my hand and they’ll know that I’m saying “Watch how they treat us cuz we are Black.” Or I’ve whispered White during conversation as to not draw too much attention from the White people I’m talking about. Usually I don’t tone it down when I talk about race because I’m usually having a good, informative discussion with someone. Most recently, I was talking to a a Black gentleman about race and historic oppression, colonialism, etc. and I said White people this and White people that quite a few times. I try to make a conscious effort to initially qualify my statements, but as the conversation goes on it is understood that I don’t mean all White people. However, if you were to overhear my conversation midway through or you didn’t know me, you’d think that I was talking about all White people in an absolute manner. Anyway, after I finished my conversation I noticed an older white guy had been in another room the entire time and subsequently ended up assisting me with something a few moments later. He was also a Campus Security Guard and I think that’s why it bothered more than anything. I don’t know if he liked or hated what I said. I don’t even know if he heard me, but I think if I knew he was there, I would have not talked quite as loudly.

  14. Lyonside wrote:

    Elly: the problem w/ talking around someone’s obvious ethnicity is that it is the same thing as whispering - it implies that that ethnicity is something to be ashamed of.

    If someone is the only visible minority in the room, then it’s not insane to point that out for the purposes of identification - nothing is more awkward than playing “I spy” with someone when a 5 word sentence would do. If I say to a friend at a big conference, “Who’s Jim?” I expect that friend to say, “The guy in the baseball cap” if he’s the only one in a cap… but not “He’s the one in the tie” if there are 90 other dudes with ties right in front of me. So if someone says, “Who’s Jim?” and the answer is, “He’s the Asian-American guy,” and he’s the only one in the room, that’s just pointing out an easy identifier that is a fact of his existance.

    Now, what I object to is someone inserting race where it isn’t relevant to the story (but obviously they think so). How many of us have been on the receiving end of the conversation that goes, “So I grabbed the last cantelope, and this *whispered* *black* woman wanted it too, and started freaking out!”.. Usually for me that’s followed by *crickets* and “What does her race have to do with it?” and the acquaintenance backpedaling with a “Nothing! Just saying…”

    Yeah, right. Sorry I can’t be complicit in assuming some crazy attribute to all black women just for the benefit of your story.

  15. foreverloyal wrote:

    My husband noticed the same thing.

  16. macon d wrote:

    Erin asked, “Slightly OT: I’m curious about the choice of the Charles de Lint cover for this piece. Was it just because of the title?”

    Yes, it was just because of the title that I chose it. I thought the idea of raising such white whispers to the surface would be sort of like clarifying what they are–if you pay attention to them, they “scream” about things going on in white(ned) psyches. I don’t know de Lint’s writing, but that’s interesting to hear about his vexatious writings about indigenous people.

    Thanks for the comments everyone (and to Carmen for the cross-posting), very helpful to me in continuing to think through this particular form of white discretion.

  17. tricia wrote:

    As a white female academic who studies race, I’m amazed at how often people seem to consider me a “safe” person to question about race. Many white students, and even my own parents, have asked whether they can use the word “black” as a descriptor. There is definitely a feeling in white America/Canada that race is a taboo topic, and we are somehow colourblind.
    I have tried, in my teaching, research, and life, to demonstrate that the effects of racism are very real, and thus we must discuss race. And until we get to a point where people are not discriminated against or privileged because of their skin pigmentation, we absolutely need to abolish the race-talk-taboo.

  18. Wren wrote:

    in response to #
    Paz wrote:

    “I disagree with the lady in the video who said that white people are born racist in the U.S. Racism is something learned. I think most people, regardless of race or ethnicity, hold some sort of prejudice. In my experience, I’ve seen that non-whites are more outwardly racist, while whites are more subtle about it, with the whispering thing. for example.”
    Posted 10 Oct 2008 at 12:50 pm ¶

    First of all I think that racism is something that can grow in people as they get older. And most white people who are not raised to learn about their privilege and equality have that racism growing in them because they assume that they should be treated better then others. Not that race should be a factor in my reaction to your comment but just to let ya know I’m mixed: white and native american.

    Racism is an ingrained system in this country and through out the world that keeps brown people down and white people in power. So when you say that white people are more subtle-for one I think your referring to the whole privilege guilt thing where white people don’t want to offend anyone or appear racist like their ancestors who were probably slave owners…
    The fact that you would even say non- white people are more outwardly racist, just doesn’t make sense. yes People of all races discriminate against each other but if you referring to when a person of color doesn’t like white people that is not the same as the immense amount of racism that keeps folks of color down.

    I think a lot of white people, who are un aware of their privilege, think that when a person of color expresses frustration at the unfair system and at the white people who keep them down, mistake that for racism. When it’s really not.

    As for the original article thank you for posting this. I often notice the weird habits when white people talk about race: from whispering black to looking around to make sure no black people are around.

    On the flip side it always burns my ears a little to hear someone say the BLACK guy because its usually followed by something negative, and I’m not used to it, because I’m from Oakland and nobody says stuff like that because you would be talking about everybody…race is not the first thing I say to describe someone.

    this kinda reminded me of a blog I wrote just venting my frustration on the ignorant things white people say. Because I look white people say things in front of me that they would never say in front of my friends that is so irritatingly ignorant please check it out and I’d love some feedback of any kind:
    http://wrenagade.blogspot.com/search/label/racism

  19. Lisa J wrote:

    Interesting. I’ve never noticed that, but I’m black so I guess the whispering is usually done quietly enough for me not to notice. One thing I have noticed was that when I was younger and growing up in a predominantly white area, whenever someone was describing someone who happened to be black (irrespective of its relavance to the topic) they woudl always say “No offense, Lisa” Over the years it began to offend or at least irritate me. You could have knocked me over with a feather the first time a white person mentioned someone being black in my presence without apologizing. I assume most of them meant well but it was very odd. Like being black was something to be ashamed of or something. Very odd.

  20. ms. four wrote:

    “Now, what I object to is someone inserting race where it isn’t relevant to the story (but obviously they think so). How many of us have been on the receiving end of the conversation that goes, “So I grabbed the last cantelope, and this *whispered* *black* woman wanted it too, and started freaking out!”.. Usually for me that’s followed by *crickets* and “What does her race have to do with it?” and the acquaintenance backpedaling with a “Nothing! Just saying…””

    Lyonside, I totally hear you on this!

    Except I don’t think the white person telling this story always thinks race is relevant the story. I think, instead, for them, woman = white woman, and man = white man. So they say “black woman” because otherwise it’s like they’re telling you the person was white. It’s the whole white privilege thing, where people think the absence of explicitly mentioning race = white.

    I have an older relative who does this, and I think she simply does not know how to talk about a black man as just a man. Or maybe now she does that I called her attention to it. Let’s hope anyway.

  21. Wren wrote:

    I just read Erin’s comment…THANK YOU!

    … just cause I look like you doesn’t mean I think like you not all white people are close minded…but a lot are…

    and to C-Marsh:
    I have those same kinda conversations and discussions and like you said when your with good friends, or just like minded people, you both know that its not referring to all white people (especially since im white : )) so I do the same thing, in this twisted world where some people walk around blind thinking that racism is only something in the history books, it’s needed to have those discussion, so that we can spark change…

    I think if more white people could see what other races go through on a daily basis they wouldn’t be so quick to think someone saying “I hate how white people…” because they could see that although they themsleves are not doing those things, many white people are and that the people who are oppressed by it just need to vent…

  22. Kaonashi wrote:

    I’ve noticed it too. And when they’re talking about Latinos, their voice gets even lower or they whisper “the non-English crowd.” And sadly, I think it’s something that everyone does to a certain degree because it’s the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

  23. CC wrote:

    When my parents moved to South Carolina from Northern parts in the 70s, they always describe it as a bit of a culture shock (they are white) because of many instances of blatant racism that they were not used to seeing. One of the things that weirded them out the most was this exact whispering phenomenon. I never heard it myself growing up in SC, but apparently it’s alive and well.

    Anyway, interesting post!

  24. DivergentDana wrote:

    It may also be a generational thing. My mother gets notably uncomfortable when I talk about race in public — she actually tells me to lower my voice, even when I’m just referring to our own race, and a middle-aged black woman at my former job euphemistically (and in whispers) referred to our white coworkers as “clear people.”

  25. Natalie wrote:

    I also find that I have a tendency to try to talk around race, and part of that is because often it makes other white people act like I said the n word.

    The other night a friend and I were talking about Greek, and he couldn’t remember a character’s name and I said, “Ashley, the black girl?”

    And it was like, crickets. And then he was like, “Why did you have to describe her as black?”

    Because…. every other character is also attractive, thin, tall, rich, clever and in a sorority?

    Obviously “because it makes unreflective people uncomfortable” is not a good reason to not do something, but it does mean that I pause in my mind every time before I describe someone as black.

  26. em wrote:

    this has been an interesting post and comment follow up. i always love the comments here on racialicious…so many layers to the onion!

    but i also think that an additional reason people whisper racial descriptions is because of the changing nature of “PC” language. it’s probably a combination of all the other things Macon D et al. have mentioned, but i do think that people are often stymied when it comes to labels.

    i think there’s a split second debate between black or african-american, or afro-american, or person of color–which one’s best? it’s something i used to agonize over awhile back, and i think a lot of other caucasian-americans do as well.

  27. Erica wrote:

    I (white woman) do have an ingrained reluctance to say “black”. If I’m trying to point Person A (who’s black) out to Person B (whatever their ethnicity) when we’re in a crowd, I’ll bend over backwards to mention any characteristic except the obvious. The person in the green shirt; the person with glasses; the guy who’s a little taller than that other guy… it would save so much time, but I’ve been taught that NOTICING somebody is black is JUST SO WRONG. Rather like Natalie has noted.

    Similarly, when my daughter described her friend Sammy by saying “he’s the boy with the brown skin and red shirt over there”, my immediate reaction was a mental cringe. But she’s four, and the obvious thing that distinguished him from the other boy running around was his shirt and skin.

    But despite a Must-Be-Colorblind upbringing, I’m not going to bother whispering if I say “black”. It’s not something shameful, and whispering treats it like a secret the person is trying to hide. And it drives me up the wall when white folk assume I’m gonna be all white solidarity with them. Usually I then start going on about being Jewish, which generally makes them cringe away in horror.

    the stupid, it burns!

  28. jvansteppes wrote:

    C-Marsh brings up the other point that ought to be made here; when people of color say ‘white’, whites often shiver and assume that they are speaking with contempt, or that they’re talking about ALL white people.
    I’ve had similar experiences when I talk about straight people. I once mentioned to a friend in a class that I’d been to a straight pub on the weekend and some guy got angry with me about ‘what’s wrong with straight pubs?’. Nothing is wrong with them, I just don’t go to straight liquor serving establishments often so I talk about them in the way that straight people tell their friends they went to a gay bar.

    For some reason I don’t mind it when straight friends pose as queer when dealing with homophobes because *when it’s done properly* I feel like it’s an act of solidarity. But I feel iffy about posing as person of color because I’m not and I don’t want to assume I should do so with good intentions because I don’t want to feel *entitled* to. I guess that maybe in the right context it could be carried off but I can’t make that call.

  29. jvansteppes wrote:

    Oh, and of course Jamerican Muslimah you are SO onto those of us white folks who don’t bring up a POC friend’s race when we first describe them.
    I don’t do it unless it’s relevant to a story or physical description but it’s because when I grew up my family would always say things like “my Asian mechanic Lynn fixed the brakes’ or “Jeremy’s black friend Ben has that sweater” and it sounded a bit too Othering because race had nothing to do with the reference.
    You’ve got me thinking though about the perils of not taking pains to not mention race because I don’t want to pretend I’m colorblind like a chump.

  30. Sarah wrote:

    Oh wow.

    I seriously was thinking about blogging this exact thing earlier this week.

    I am white and grew up in the Northeast. Now I live in New Orleans, and this thing drives me crazy. I’ve lived here for several years, but I just started teaching in a suburban school that has a much lower (”black”) population than the rest of this area. And this has been happening so much I definitely noticed it and was made uncomfortable by it. In fact it drives me crazy.

    Imagine living in a metro area all your life where the vast majority of the population is (”black”) and not even being able to say the word out loud! I’ve thought about it, and I really believe it’s twofold… They think there’s something “wrong” with flat out saying someone is black when they are, like they’re going to get yelled at by the race police. (This is stuff like, I don’t know a lot of the kids’ names yet and they are trying to explain to me which kid it is, and they whisper, “The *black* boy in 2nd row.”) On the flipside, I’ve also heard the black whisper when they know deep down what they’re saying is racist but don’t want to admit it. (”Oh, well, but you know they’re *black*.”)

    It’s as if they can clearly see I am not (”black”) so they’ve deemed it okay to do the black whisper. It makes me want to run out of suburbia and back into Orleans Parish, where neighborhoods are a little more mixed up and you’d have to be whispering constantly if you were going to do that at work, STAT. I never heard that in the north, and I find it so weird.

  31. Luis wrote:

    @ Paz:

    All kinds of people have prejudices against others, for sure, but I’ve never seen a study show me that Black, Latino, or Asians are more likely to pass over White applicants to a job based on their race. In fact, studies show that Black people also discriminate against other Black people in this way, possibly to not seem like there is “favoritism,” or because they’ve internalized racism. Racism in America is not the same thing as a racist joke. It is a system of subtle, usually unspoken (or whispered), barriers that keep non-Whites working a little harder to run the gauntlet. Whether it’s the job market gauntlet, the home-owning gauntlet, the dating pool gauntlet, or the credit rating gauntlet, individuals in this country are carrying different invisible weights based on their race and gender.

    White people who think that criticism about racist jokes or whispered words is about their behavior are missing the point. It isn’t about what you just said or done, but about the fact that what you have said or done indicates to me that you are not actively working against the things I just mentioned above. Therefore, I cannot trust you. I can’t trust you to sell me a home, I can’t trust you to be my employer, and I can’t trust you to be around my kids while they’re still developing. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you would be in my corner on these issues, but you need to do a better job of showing it.

    So please, say Black out loud. It’s not a dirty word. There’s nothing wrong with the girl in that show or that guy across the room being Black. Just interrogate the words that follow, and ask yourself if what you’re saying is “common sense” or “just being honest” or actually just generalized nonsense like the two fools on the left in the posted video.

  32. MouseJunior wrote:

    ” I admit to going out of my way to try to think of some way to avoid saying “Joe Smith is the black guy over there” ”

    Many years ago, when I first moved to the US, I was staffing a lab at a tech conference. One of the people I ended up dealing with had a question that was about a different part of the API than the ones I owned, so I aimed him off to a coworker with a “you want to talk to X, he’s the black guy over there”.

    The guy I was talking to was *appalled*, enough so that I (mildly autistic) picked up on it. To this day it bemuses me that I could be expected to describe someone for the purpose of enabling someone else to recognize them without using their most distinctive physical features.

    (Why say black instead of AA/PoC? ‘Cause my coworker’s not American, and half the room was east or south asian.)

  33. Sobia wrote:

    I think part of the problem as I see it in the people around me, as well as myself, is not knowing if using the term ‘Black’ is ok or not. For instance, I’ve had White people ask me if it was ok to refer to South Asians as ‘Brown.’ I always say that I don’t mind, but that I’m not sure how other South Asians would react. So just to be on the safe side in other conversations refer to us as South Asians.

    I grew up in an all White place. So White that I feel White myself sometimes. And when I would use the term Black, I would be asked if maybe I shouldn’t be saying African-American/Canadian instead. I’d like to say I know what to say but to be honest, I don’t and at times find myself forcing myself not to whisper ‘Black.’

    I think many people genuinely fear that the term ‘Black’ is offensive.

  34. Stretch Mark Mama wrote:

    Great post. I am white and whisper the race words too. {What a bizarre culture we live in–these behaviors are very ingrained.}

    I also whisper the word “black” when I’m not sure of the PC word to use. Is this person African-American? Ethiopian? I can’t keep up with the lingo let alone speak it at the correct volume. :)

  35. occhiblu wrote:

    There’s also the connection to (white?) people’s tendency to whisper horrible diseases, like “cancer.” Maybe that’s just an older Jewish thing? I used to work with a bunch of older women who would say, “Well, you heard about so and so. She has cancer.”

    That sort of whispering always seemed to indicate a superstitious sort of gossiping. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it outside that sort of context: describing the ills that have befallen a mutual friend.

    I find the whispering bizarre when used to name diseases (as if cancer could hear and would attack when invoked!) and it’s utterly atrocious that it’s also used when talking about race; that’s not something I’ve heard before.

  36. Luis wrote:

    I’ve got a bit more to say, so here it goes.

    There’s nothing wrong with White kids sitting with White kids and Black kids sitting with Black kids. This is, at face value, an incendiary comment, but please read my explanation carefully before responding.

    The kids they’re referring to are most likely in Junior High, between the ages of 12 and 14. This is a generally psychologically sensitive point in a kid’s life where she or he is beginning to develop a sense of their identity through others. You all should remember this, it was a confusing time. Part and parcel of understanding one’s identity in America is figuring out one’s racial identity. Part of the sensationalism of these pieces is the feeling that “Oh no, the kids understand race! How did this happen?” Kids are not stupid, they’re actually very observant and begin to pick up and feel non-verbal cues in interactions very early. At this point in there lives, though they may not know how to express it, Black kids are trying to understand what it means to be Black, and White kids are trying to understand what it means White, and the same goes for Latino and Asian kids. This country has had socially distinct White and Black categories for 300 years, and Latino and Asian categories for about 100. Closing your eyes and hoping it goes away is a reckless strategy. You’re not going to eliminate the American racial categorization system by worrying if kids eat together. That’s naive and doesn’t begin to approach the actual issues at play. Instead we should try to understand how we can influence positive racial identification at these “segregated” table.

    I went to a majority White school and in High school was involved in education programs both in and outside of my school. What we found, and many other programs are finding, was that Black and Latino students in Junior High responded very well in both social and academic terms to having a short elective block of the week where they could meet with non-White teachers and older students and talk about their issues and build a positive racial identity that didn’t fall into the anti-academic mold that so often filters into these kids through both the media and, frankly, regular social interaction. From this position, the kids can comfortably interact in interracial friend groups without questioning their own racial identification.

    We should really be concerned if this behavior continues into adulthood. In this context, however, it just requires understanding and a little bit of effort towards connecting.

    NOTE: Check out Dr. Tatum’s “Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? And Other Conversations About Race,” for some nice insight on race and child development.

  37. BSK wrote:

    This is something I still struggle with. Whether it is whispering black or “the Bradley effect”, clearly the way in which (white) people handle such situations indicate they have some awareness of how wrong what they are about to say or do is. So, if it’s wrong, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IT??? If you know it is wrong or offensive to make a comment, then you should probably stop making it. And not only should you not make it, but you should probably re-evaluate what has led you to making a decision that you KNOW is wrong.

    Is this too much to ask for? Unfortunately, it probably is…

  38. CVT wrote:

    It’s an interesting phenomenon. I’ve also seen “anti-racists” call people out for referring to somebody as “Mexican” (even when they ARE Mexican) as if it’s automatically a form of racism. For me, it goes like this: white people have so many automatic associations with race, and their prejudices about it, that they put all of that into ANY reference to a person’s race, no matter the intent.

    I was in a diversity training once, and the POC got into a dialogue with the white folks in the room, as we tried to explain why we actually WANT them to acknowledge race. A friend of mine put it best when he explained that “white people like to think of race like a physical deformity - like being a hunchback. So it’s rude to point it out, because, obviously, the person is going to be sensitive about it.” When we all clarified that we were actually PROUD of our racial identities and that we wanted it acknowledged as a huge part of who we are, most of the white folks in the room had their minds blown.

  39. CVT wrote:

    @ Luis -
    I’m a middle school teacher, myself, and I wholly agree. Until my kids start getting to know each other better, the lunchroom and classroom (if they choose their own seats) is guaranteed to be self-segregated by race. And that’s okay. Because kids want to feel comfortable, and they’re most comfortable with people that seem “like them.” So until they find other ways to identify who is “like them,” they stick to racial indicators.

    But then the lightbulb brightens - I had a black (I’m saying that out loud) kid in one of my classes raise his hand and ask, “Why are all the black kids sitting on this side of the room, and all the white kids are sitting on that side?” And, although I’m a math teacher, we got into a great discussion about race, and social dynamics, and psychology, as we tried to figure out why that really happened.

    Kids aren’t as stupid as people want them to be (or expect them to be). They notice all of it. And that’s why it’s so sad that the world sends out these messages of how races “should” be when they’re so young.

  40. b wrote:

    I remember reading about how white children are subject to their parents’ embarrassment or inability to talk about race in public. So when a white child innocently asks why a black child looks the way they look the white parent lowers their voice and says something unhelpful like–”that’s not a question we ask” or “it isn’t nice to ask that” or “god makes them that way”. …and, really, i wonder if the parents that would whisper these things to their curious children would then introduce their white child to the child of color if it’s at the park or something. probably not.

    oh and liberals do this as much as anyone–the taboo’ing of race–because they want to be or raise “colorblind” politically correct children. i’ve met so many liberal white folks in my life and heard their round about, thinly veiled class privileged if not racist ways of describing black neighborhoods. …so, yeah, training starts early with the black-whisper is all I’m was saying.

  41. Asada wrote:

    Pts:
    If White is Good and a “default category”, then saying everyone is equal, it becomes hard to point out a difference. Because that is to say others are not good and not worthy of default/good status. PoC darn well don’t like hearing this.
    America is a land of labels. This is something that bugs me too, and so much so that one person of color ( a talk show /radio host) simply said he is Black. His complaint was that We went from colored, to people of color, to African Americans to Black and he just wants to say as Black. Doesn’t anyone notice White’s almost NEVER have this problem of what the entire group should be called? The label is basically stable. Latino’s have it even worse. The running joke is that in the south your Mexican, in the northeast your Puerto Rican in the south east your either Puerto Rican or Dominican and in the northwest you could probably pass as a dark skinned Italian.
    We also need to get to a point where being a PoC is seen as GOOD. Because right now, it just seems like a handicap one needs to get over. I forget who said it, but a former slave who was freed said “ I have found no fault with being black, only great hindrance “ ( Or “only somewhat uncomfortable” ). I forget the exact quote. It pain’s me that White’s can’t even talk about me with being afraid or ashamed or some BS like that. PART of the reason ppl would by into propaganda, being afraid of Obama or other Leaders of Color.

  42. Heather wrote:

    I’m a white college student on Long Island, and while there’s a little more diversity here than in my hometown, it’s not much. People whisper “black” here ALL the damn time, and I think a lot of it comes from simply not knowing the correct way to reference someone’s race, or thinking that noticing someone’s race is racist in and of itself (though oddly enough nobody I’ve noticed whispers “asian” when it’s used as an identifying characteristic in the same way as “black”). Either people will whisper “He’s the “black” guy over there” or pick out some other random characteristic, like “Oh, she’s the one who wears a hat…”. Once I actually got flack from two of my white friends for NOT whispering “black” in a conversation: “Do you know Bill?” “I don’t think so.” “He’s in band, he plays trumpet, he’s black…” “Wow, way to be racist Heather.” I certainly wasn’t intending to be racist in describing the only black trumpet player in the band, but because I didn’t sort of leave his race awkwardly unspoken or whispered or at least come to it reluctantly, it was taken as a racist remark. I think that kind of misunderstanding is the product of simple ignorance.

    Of course, I hear a lot of interjecting (”race”) into random conversations, ie “There’s a jazz band playing outside, they’re really good…… they’re all (”black”) so yeah!” and I think there are definite stereotypes attached to those kind of remarks.

    This stuff happens in the North too, or at least here.

  43. maude wrote:

    Excellent post, although the video clip is utter nonsense. Secours started an interesting point but didn’t get to finish it. I’d like to hear more about why she thinks all white people start out racists and must work to overcome it. Does being born with the unfair advantage of white skin (if you see it that way) make you a racist? Does being born into power make you a tyrant? I’m really not sure either way.

    I wonder whether the whispering is more about hiding a wrong or being unsure. I think a lot of white Americans worry that they may be using an incorrect or outdated term when they refer to black Americans. However it sounds like the woman in this instance was in fact using it in a racist way, by implying that she was appalled that their friend would marry a black man.

  44. lxy wrote:

    “It’s an interesting phenomenon. I’ve also seen ‘anti-racists’ call people out for referring to somebody as ‘Mexican’ (even when they ARE Mexican) as if it’s automatically a form of racism. For me, it goes like this: white people have so many automatic associations with race, and their prejudices about it, that they put all of that into ANY reference to a person’s race, no matter the intent. ”

    Yes, I’ve seen this too. It’s called Colorblind Racism.

    Basically, the ideology of colorblindness in the USA is about hijacking the idea of a (colorblind) common humanity and using it to deny the reality of White Supremacy and America’s racial caste system.

    In perverse fashion, bringing up the issue of race is now deemed “racist” to some of these people.

    In the USA’s version of colorblindness, we are all equally just individuals–though some individuals strangely are more equal than others.

    “Racism Without Racists- an analysis”
    http://whitestudiesblackstudies.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/racism-without-racists-an-analysis/

    “Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in the United States”
    http://www.amazon.com/Racism-without-Racists-Color-Blind-Persistence/dp/0742516334

  45. Ric Caric wrote:

    If you think white people have hang-ups about using the word “black,” you should try to get them to talk about being “white.”

    By the way, I’m a white college professor. But my students in Kentucky are so embarrassed about whiteness that I use the whisper thing to say “I’m white” when I teach about racial issues in my political theory classes.

  46. Restructure! wrote:

    When I’m talking with other PoC and no white people are listening, we talk about white guy this, black girl that, brown girl this, Asian guy that (when it’s relevant). However when I’m with mostly white people, I talk around race and avoid mentioning a person’s race (especially if black), because it’s inappropriate in white-people etiquette, and if I do it, the white people would think that I’m an uncultured Asian that is unfamiliar with Western social norms and the concept of “racism”.

  47. Jay wrote:

    I’m black and i’ve had the same thing happen to me only in reverse. I’ve referred to a person and said they were “white” and had the person i was talking to (another black person) shush me for doing so. It’s like referring to someone’s race in mixed company, even as a clarifier or description is racist in itself.
    One time i was pointing out a person on the street to a co-worker. Because there was more than one person out there, i indicated the person as “…the black woman there”. My co-worker tried to act as if she couldn’t see the woman and told me that she had been taught not to see color as if to say that she couldn’t see a black person no matter what i had said. I thought this was bull.
    It’s as if, mentioning race at any time is never politically correct. We’ve gone too far.

  48. NancyP wrote:

    What’s wrong with the term “Bradley effect”? It’s shorter than “pre-election polls show more support for a black candidate than seen in the actual election”.

  49. dirkdiggler wrote:

    i’m not really sure what the point of this discussion is. you may have noticed that white people may whisper it because they’re not sure whether it’s appropriate or polite to make such a reference. but usually, they’re in situations when there are only very few “black” people or other poc, so that indicating the color or race of the person is the easiest way to identify them. but this is something all poc do themselves. a latino, in a group where there are very few latinos (and this is not just white groups but even where, say, blacks or asians are in the majority) will identify another latino by his/her ethnicity. this isn’t just a white/black thing. it’s context and the makeup of the group you happen to be in at the time. i think it’s interesting that so many threads here simply take it for granted that whatever ills based on race/ethnicity are perpetrated primarily or exclusively by white people. if you want to understand the state of race/ethnic relations in this country, you have to come to grips with all of the racist/bigoted views that poc have against other poc.

    formulating this discussion as “these crazy things white people do to minorities” without acknowledging how common this sort of conduct is with everyone is shallow and disingenuous. it can’t be that when white people do it, it’s racist, but when poc do it, you just chalk it up to they’re being true to their culture.

  50. Luis wrote:

    Jay, you’re very right. Though I don’t know if it’s that we’ve gone too far, or if we’ve gone too far in the wrong direction. There’s a whole lot of missing the point going on.

    CVT, you’re a saint for doing what you do. Thank you on behalf of America. Your story hits the nail on the head. This isn’t about putting bodies together, it’s about preparing minds and letting them meet.

  51. little mixed girl wrote:

    i think white people whisper “black” because they think it’s equal to “negro”.
    so, they think it’s wrong, but then they’re not totally sure.
    so, they go with “african-american”, because well, there are other hypenated americans.

  52. Witchsistah wrote:

    That’s better than when they say “Black” like they’re vomiting the word out. Like they really want to say “n$88er” but can’t so they’ll say “Black” like they just drank a glass of ipecac.

  53. Roger Green wrote:

    I agree that some white peole whisper “black” because they think mentioning race is racist, but I don’t think it’s a function of “black” being equivalent to “negro” (#51). I’m old enough to remember when people used to whisper “Negro” and occasionally even “colored”. “You don’t want to go there, the [whisper] coloreds go there .

  54. Pheagan wrote:

    Man, I was waiting all this time for you to say something about Charles de Lint.

  55. Jeremy wrote:

    This post raises some good points. But it’s a complicated subject. Some may be doing it because they’re RACIST racist, some because they’re ignorant, others because they don’t which label to apply, and some who have a lack of experience with other ethnicities that leads them into awkward situations. The scenario in the article, however, is one of thinly-veiled racism.

    As for the people trying to make a case that people of color are rarely racist and merely expressing frustration at a racist system: come off it. You can’t tell me that the unbelievably hateful views that many Hispanic-Americans have of African-Americans are really just venting at an unjust white system. That’s just stupid. I grew up in a semi-segregated melting pot (there were plenty of blacks, hispanics and whites, but not a whole lot of interaction), and I can’t even BEGIN to list the wild inaccuracies that each of those ethnicities had about the others. This is due to lack of communication, culture-bound perspectives that misinterpret the motives of others, and downright crappy parenting that many people of ALL ethnicities have.

    Don’t you try and tell me that some prejudices that many Asians have against Hispanics and Blacks from around the world are the result of White Oppression. Your ignorance only fuels the racism in this world. Especially when you make comments about most white people’s ancestors owning slaves. That shows your own racist (yes, racist) ignorant views on history. Most white people were too poor to own slaves, and many of us “white people” (myself included) are descended from people who did not come to this country until long after slavery ended. For example, some of my family were Ukrainian Jews who came here after the Czar died. And I would rather be an African-American in New York in those days than a Jew in a Ukrainian village. So how about a little honesty when talking about racism, instead of first-year college sensitivity training seminar semantics that don’t help anybody?

    BTW - I freakin’ love this website. It always blows me away how much brilliant writing there is in the articles. And even most of the comments are on a much higher intellectual level than one sees on Slate or other great sites.

  56. Dan wrote:

    Great post!

    In the interest of helping other whites become more sensitive and racially aware, which has undoubtedly been a problem for whites historically, I’ve decided to start a new series called, ‘Things You Shouldn’t Do If You’re White’. It’s a series intended to help whites know what NOT to do, and more importantly, WHY they shouldn’t do them.

    Don’t comment on how ‘articulate’ a colored person is.

    You’ve heard it before. Hell, you probably have even said it. After interacting with a black person or any colored person, the comment inevitably comes, ‘You are so articulate!’.

    White people seldom give thought to this comment but judging by how offensive persons of color regard this comment, it certainly demands further inspection.

    The obvious questions arise in response to the comment: ‘You are so articulate!’

    -As opposed to what?

    -For who? For a black man/woman?

    Let’s start by first accepting the fact that you will never hear a white person calling another white person articulate. It’s just not done. I’ve never heard it in my 34 years and I’ve never heard stories from other whites who have heard it in their experiences. So that fact is the foundation of the insult: white people don’t call other white people articulate because deep down, they don’t by and large consider white people in general as inarticulate. If you consider a whole race of people articulate, you’re not going to constantly single one person out just to tell them that they’re articulate, because you already think they are.

    So that given, the base feeling behind a white person commenting to a black person, ‘You’re so articulate!’ must mean that this black person has acted as an exception to the white person’s rule that all black people are inarticulate. It comes from a prejudice that black people are speak in ebonics, are hard to understand, and do not properly speak the English language. Basically, before the black person has even opened their mouth, the white person already has a preconceived expectation that the black person is going to sound ‘ghetto’ and talk in urban slang and ebonics. So then, when the black person sounds ‘normal’ and speaks perfect English, the white person is surprised and blurts out, ‘You’re so articulate!’ as if the rest of the black population ISN’T articulate.

    So now you begin to see how blacks and other minorities regard this statement and just how completely insensitive, ignorant, and prejudiced a comment it really is.

    When we whites can regard blacks in the same way that we regard each other, progress will be made. You see, in regards to whites and speaking, we regard whites who don’t speak ‘normal’ as the exception to the rule. Creoles, deep southerners, etc. are all very small subsets of the white population who speak a very difficult to understand form of English.

    We need to regard blacks in the same capacity, out of equal parts decency and the simple fact that it’s the truth: the majority of blacks speak perfect English and it is only small subsets that DON’T speak ‘normal’ English. Only when that happens will white people cease commenting to the few black people they actually come across as ‘articulate’.

    So please, my fellow whites, learn this lesson today and internalize it. Let it sink deep inside and begin to dissipate your stereotypes and prejudices. When you act surprised that someone has exceeded your low expectation of them, you have to question why you had such a low expectation of them in the first place, and question if that low expectation is unfounded and based on ignorant and prejudiced thoughts. When you can teach yourself to question these situations and deconstruct them with logic and rational thought, you will learn to apply that way of thought to OTHER situations and will begin the process of dismantling your own prejudices and ignorance that has been ingrained in you by a white dominated racist culture.

    Think for yourself! Question what you have been taught! Seek out information that obliterates the lies you have been taught!

    Peace.

  57. pixilated wrote:

    Rika wrote:
    There’s also an old (I think originally Southern) way of referring to someone’s skin color involving taking the index finger and lightly rubbing it over the back of your other hand.

    that reminds me of a story my cousin told me about dinner party she attended where she learned one of the euphemistic ways some white people used to refer to black (or other people of colour) people in mixed company to other - such as “our little friend from mars is just stuffing his face, isn’t he?”

  58. macon d wrote:

    I like your idea, Dan! Actually, listing specific common white behaviors is pretty much the idea of my blog (where this post originally appeared), “stuff white people do,” where I’ve covered “complimenting black people for being ‘articulate’ (instead of listening to what they have to say),” and over 100 other white moves by now. I have a bunch of other ones waiting for their own posts, and please do stop on by if you have other suggestions.

    Thanks again for the comments everyone. This has been a great discussion, and for me, VERY helpful. I’m with Jeremy above–I freakin’ love Racialicious too, including the high concentration of intelligent commenters here.

  59. Sobia wrote:

    I know this is quite a bit later, but in addition to what Mohammed said:

    Racism from minority to minority also has very different consequences and implications than White to non-White racism. And the difference is a result of power differences. White people still have power over non-Whites. And unfortunately this is an international phenomenon.

    @ Jeremy:

    You make a great point about the differences among Whites as well.

    I’m not sure who you were addressing when you made the comment

    “Don’t you try and tell me that some prejudices that many Asians have against Hispanics and Blacks from around the world are the result of White Oppression.”

    But something popped in my head when you said that. My family comes from South Asia and I know people there have held negative views of not only Black people but also Indigenous peoples. And I see this to be as a result of the way White people have portrayed Black and Indigenous people in their movies, tv shows, books, and various other forms of media and communications.

    However, I do agree that it may not be that simple and not all related to White oppression. After all, a few years ago there was some news that even Gandhi held very derogatory attitudes toward Black Africans.
    (http://www.trinicenter.com/oops/gandhi.html)

  60. Sarah wrote:

    @topic: this is a really brilliant article. I’m a White teenager in the Northeast, and the way I was brought up says “discussing race is acceptable as a physical descriptor only (the White girl over there, the short Asian guy, the Black guy with glasses).” Oddly, my parents are really opposed to discussing racism and race-related issues, though they do tend to speak in “codes” for race. “You don’t want to shop there, that store is kind of [pause] ethnic” is fairly typical of my mom.

    @Dan, and White people not calling other White people “articulate:” I’m with you on examining one’s assumptions and not having lower expectations for PoC. However, I’m on my school’s debate team, and I’ve been called articulate by other people of various ethnicities. When people are in competitions which involve (among other things) being well-spoken and articulate, it can be something that gets noticed. Another possibility, one that hadn’t occurred to me prior to your post, is that geeky teenage girls aren’t expected to be articulate - so I am surprising people whose expectations are artificially low, just not for racial reasons. Now that I think about it, those types of comments usually come from people who are older than me and/or male. Huh.

  61. Dan wrote:

    Macon D - And here I was thinking I was being original. Ha! I’ll have to check out your blog. :)

    Sarah - In a competitive atmosphere, where being articulate can often win the competition, we wouldn’t give such a comment a second thought.

    However as you say the comments usually come from old males, well that deserves further scrutiny.

    Could it be due to chauvinistic opinions those older men have? Could they simply be commenting you because they think you’re more articulate than the average teenager, which would remove any offensiveness from the comment, since teenager is a race/religion/sex neutral designation?

    These are the gray areas we all have to weigh when filtering other peoples’ words. I think the person best suited to making that distinction is you. What was the persons’ tone? What was their body language? Etc.

    I’m a firm believer in studying body language. In this day and age with slang, euphemisms, and veiled racism, people have become astute at offending while making their speech seem as innocent as possible. However many people do not pay mind to their body language and it can often tell more than their words ever would. Body language is as complex and communicative as English or Spanish or Sanskrit. Being able to speak it can often times tell the listener (or watcher) more than just the verbal part of another persons’ communication.

  62. Richard Jeffrey Newman wrote:

    I just had to say that I have not heard anyone actually whisper the word black like that since I was in college which is not to say I have not heard people do their best to find a way not to mention that the Black person they are talking about is Black–even in that Black person’s presence/hearing, as if the Black person did not know her or his race. When I was an undergraduate, that became the joke: we would say to people who whispered, “It’s okay to say it out loud. Black people know they’re Black.”

  63. Paz wrote:

    About my comment that in my experience non-white people are more openly racist:

    In my community, there is a high percentage of (nonwhite) immigrants. I have South Asian friends whose parents have explicitly told them which races they cannot date (the worst they could do is date a Black person). I know many who have no problem saying “Damn Chinese” if they get cut off while driving. These are only a few examples.
    Of course I am not saying that minorities are MORE racist than whites or that ALL minorities are openly racist. I’m just conveying my experience. Possibly since immigrants have been raised in other countries, they weren’t raised with the PC, “colorblind” mentality, and therefore can be more open about pointing out race.

  64. gladzahnisCANCELLED wrote:

    Wow. Watching that exchange was painful. Zahn did not make any effort to give equal time to Martin and Secours. In fact, she prioritized the bigoted views of whatever their names are.

    I’ll definitely be checking out Secours on the web. Thank you for this article.

  65. Kekla wrote:

    @ Dan and Sarah, as a 20-something black woman, I get the “articulate” comment semi-regularly. Lately it has definitely been coming more from older white men. I don’t really get it much from women, but when I do they’re also old. No one my age has ever called me articulate.

    I’m black, so I can’t be sure what the motivating factor is, but I’ve come to think it is about age more than race. These are old guys with probably a significant range of racial prejudices among them, so again, I can’t be sure - but I did hear a couple of the same guys refer to a friend of mine who’s a young white woman as “articulate,” and “well-spoken” as well.

    I find that (especially white) elders don’t always give much respect to younger people for their ideas, commentary and analyses. Perhaps since every other word I utter in conversation isn’t “like” or “whatever,” they see me as standing apart from others in my age group?

    That said, I’m not generally offended by being called articulate. I don’t think it assumes that the person expected you not to be able to string a sentence together, but rather implies that you said something in a great way that impressed someone. Why can’t it just be taken as a compliment to me, rather than a commentary on the other person’s prejudices? (In all seriousness, does anyone really believe that “articulate” is the status quo for white people in this country?)

    I understand the critical argument about it, and that it’s a compliment with a complicated history of association with black people. But most of the time, I find that it comes in the context that you (Dan) claimed to find acceptable - after a speech or debate. That’s why politicians, teachers, etc. get it so often. Because they’re entering into a forum where what you say and how you say it matters. I disagree that it’s an inherently racist comment. (Although by now, people who are truly racially aware would know to phrase their thoughts differently so as not to risk offense.)

    What I DO find problematic is the way that some white people are able to compartmentalize their prejudice to cover only “poor black folks from the street,” but exempt “professional” or “educated” blacks from their scorn. I’ve observed some white people whispering about the kind of blacks who will make the neighborhood unsafe, but later loudly proclaiming so-and-so to be highly articulate. In that case, it seems to be a deliberate effort to prove how accepting they are of diversity when they really are not.

  66. Ishtar wrote:

    I’m a South African and the “whispering” phenomenon happens here in SA too. I’ve mostly heard it from Whites and Coloureds about Blacks but I’ve also heard Coloureds whisper when mentioning Whites and a few times I’ve heard Blacks whispering when mentioning other races.

    Race is of course still very much a volatile issue here and in my experience the lowering of the voice usually happens when the speaker is about to say something that either is racist (and he/she wants to gauge your stance) or the speaker is afraid that what is said could be construed as racist.

    My rule of thumb is that whenever anyone lowers their voice when race is mentioned I prepare myself to hear a racist statement.

    Generally I find that race is often mentioned when it has absolutely no bearing on the topic under discussion and that irks me no end. For example someone will mention seeing another person push into a queue and the comment will be “…and it was a Black lady/man”. Usually I will reply along the lines of “I’ve seen too much bad manners from all races to think that bad manners apply only to Black people”. Usually the person I’m speaking to will then back-pedal furiously and tell me “I’m just saying”.

    Oh btw, “I’m just saying” is code for “I’m going to say (or have said) something offensive but I’m downplaying it in case you don’t agree with me”.

    (Note: those unfamiliar with the racial demographics in SA might not know about the Black/Coloured distinction we have here. I’d be happy to give more information about this if asked.)

  67. Sobia wrote:

    @Ishtar:

    “(Note: those unfamiliar with the racial demographics in SA might not know about the Black/Coloured distinction we have here. I’d be happy to give more information about this if asked.)”

    Please do. I know I’m confused.

  68. Lisa J wrote:

    I’m not sure how 100% comfortable I am with people who are saying they don’t appreciate getting their “hand slapped” for describing someone as black only for a descriptor. NOt that there is anything wrong with using that as a descriptor or mentioning it when it is relavant but it seems like a bit of a double edged sword. I remember being the only black child in a class once with a substitute teacher who’d spent the whole period pointing at the student she was acknowledging and saying “the girl in the orange top” or the “boy in the green shirt” and when I raised my hand she said the black girl. I was mortified, embarrased and I mumbled some answer which was wrong and felt really bad. Other kids even came up to me afterward to apologize. It isn’t so much that calling that out as a descriptor is wrong if there is no other descriptor but it seems like maybe it should be a last resort of maybe more along the lines of if the person you are describing that individual to doesn’t seem to get who you are describing. I supose if it is you who are being described it can feel alienating, like that is all you see. I don’t often hear someone describing someone and say “the white guy” usually that is the very last thing you would hear even if they are the only white person in the group. I guess I am ambiguous on this one. Here is another instance where calling out black made me uncomfortable, my kickball leauge does a weekly newsletter and a girl described her wild adventures getting home which included getting intoa car with 3 strange men and how scary that was. She mentioned they were black and then put in parenthesis that she wasn’t being racist, she was just using it a description, but nothing she described about the event made their race relavant. I’m sure if it was 3 white guys who were in the car she’d have said 3 guys. I think the salient fact about their blackness was that the ride was “scary” and she mentioned their blackness as a way to emphasize that (like getting into a car with 3 strange men when you are drunk is ever not a scary thing to do). It really bothered me that she brought it up. I understand why sometimes it might be relavant but so often it isn’t. I mean I’d rather not people whisper that someone is black but I’d rather them not feel like oh, that is the only way to describe someone. Maybe I’m a hyporcite.

  69. Will wrote:

    @Lisa J

    I’m not sure how 100% comfortable I am with people who are saying they don’t appreciate getting their “hand slapped” for describing someone as black only for a descriptor. NOt that there is anything wrong with using that as a descriptor or mentioning it when it is relavant but it seems like a bit of a double edged sword.

    I do agree it is kind of a double-edged sword, and a lot of it is regarding context. To illustrate

    Some time ago, I was talking to a white acquaintance (not friend, and you’ll see why) and they were telling a story and they made the comment ‘and then some black guy walks in’. Now, we were a group of people, I was the only black person and after he said it he got this embarrassed look and apologized. I totally ignored his apology and just let the cold tension hung in the air. The context was that the story was about how ridiculous his day had been, he had gone for an interview and was waiting for the interviewer (who turned out to be a black guy). The statement was made in a very dismissive way (in a How little do they think of me that they would send a black guy to interview me way).

    In this instance, I was totally justified in being offended because black was used as a marker for undesirable or less than. It can also be offensive when it is used purely as the over-riding attribute that people see (which is what your teacher did)

    In another instance, I’ve had some white friends totally use it as purely descriptive “No, no, over there, see the thin black guy with the jeans, that’s so and so”. And thats perfectly fine.

    I guess it all boils down to context.

    I’ve also been the one not to know how exactly to handle it. A friend of mine had an old friend coming into town and couldn’t meet up to pick her up so she asked me to do so and bring her back to her place. I spoke to her friend and she described herself (didn’t mention her race, but told me what she would be wearing etc). I described what I was wearing and where I would be at what time (Quincy Market in downtown Boston). God,was the place packed. We had a hard time finding each other and I thought Woudn’t it have been more efficient to also tell her I was black, considering I was like the only black person there. And I suspect on her part she just assumed I was white because we must have walked past each other a couple of times. We finally did meet and had a chuckle about it (nothing was voiced, but we both kind of new what the thought process had been on both our parts).

  70. Daniel wrote:

    Great post. I live in the South Bronx and I hear folks lowering their voices all the time, whispering, “what’s up with that white guy…cracker, etc, etc” When I was with my ex-wife, who is black, a lot of white and black people would get really quiet. I can’t even repeat all the things I heard whispered or yelled. The lamest comment had to be when this idot called my daughter a Zebra. Too bad ignorance isn’t oil. No shortage there. No drilling needed.

  71. minke wrote:

    My lab partner in high school was Jewish and perked up every time someone said “Jew” within earshot. He’d literally stop what he was doing and listen in to their conversation to make sure they weren’t making statements he found offensive (for the record, he found lots of statements offensive, while himself making offensive anti-Muslim statements regularly). It certainly made me a little paranoid about saying “Jew/ish” around him.

  72. octogalore wrote:

    “He doesn’t agree with me that being raised as white in America pretty much makes a person a racist, unless they work to counteract that training. ”

    Doesn’t that depend on what the training is? Not all families and communities are equivalent. What about white people with siblings of color — are we racist too?

  73. Monia wrote:

    Like others have said, I know plenty of black folk who whisper “white” as well. Some of them whisper “black” too, when in mixed company…I always assumed that they felt uncomfortable discussiong race in public. I make it a point to speak clearly and without shame when discussing race in public…but the fact that it does not come naturally to me makes me wonder if I am also somewhat uncomfortable, but just trying to work through it….

  74. bdsista wrote:

    Since I do Diversity training, I have very few filters and pretty openly in conversation describe whom I talking about as black or white if it relates to the story and sometimes if it doesn’t it just is a point of information so the listener won’t assume the people I’m talking about look like them either way. I have heard the whispering, my Grandmother from Savannah, used to do when talking about white folk when we were in the midst of them. My girlfriends mother has interesting code, she refers to other black people as “club members” and whites as non-club members when out in public if the story needs clarification. Apparently this was developed while riding the trains and buses in NYC where they lived where they didn’t want to have open conversations about whites in the presence of whites, which at one time could have been dangerous. What is interesting is blacks never ask why I identify race when relating an event, some whites have asked me why and I said, so you know who I’m talking about, but the more accurate answer would be to inform the listener as to what the person was which would explain the reaction or response that i was talking about.
    I hope I make sense. But often its about subtleties. Sometimes I point to the back of my hand to refer the blacks and the palm of my hand to refer to whites if I need to make a non-verbal point. Most blacks get the nonverbal, most whites don’t.

    Just cuz you have siblings, or relatives of color doesn’t mean you can’t be racist. I have found white people (usually women) who do and say the stupidist things that are soo racist and their excuse is , “well my boyfriend/husband is black so I can’t be racist. I my response is sleepin black don’t make you black or understand black people, just like me sleeping with someone Hispanic don’t make me speak Spanish. You are what you are and even if you are in an IR relationship, if you feel that’s one more addition to the white privilege and don’t do the work of being anti-racist, then you stay the same, you just got ONE black person who relates to your dysfunctional ass. The relationship does not change you just by function of its existence.

  75. Ishtar wrote:

    @ Sobia

    Thanks for asking! :-)

    The history of the Black / Coloured distinction is a long one but I’ll summarise like mad.

    Back in the bad old days of Apartheid everyone was divided into four main racial groups (though there were sub-groups too) - White, Black, Indian and Coloured.

    Blacks were (and still are) the Xhosas, Zulus, Shangaans, Sothos, etc. etc. - the Black population that was here prior to the arrival of Europeans.

    Coloureds were, to put it crudely and at its most basic, anyone who did not fall into the other three groups. Coloureds are basically a mix of indigenous KhoiSan, European, South Asian and African (South Africa and other African countries, e.g. Angola). These “mixes” vary from family to family (community to community) and physically we are very diverse - from blue-eyed blondes right through the spectrum.

    The history of the Coloured people is synonymous with slavery. As far as I know (and I’m no expert) only Coloureds were officially classified as slaves. Slavery was abolished in 1834 and is still not a topic that is widely discussed.

    The term “Coloured” is a contentious one amongst Coloured people. Some see it as purely an Apartheid lable and they disown it completely. Others see the word as one they’ve appropriated over the years and made their own. There are factions who self-identify as Black, as KhoiSan, as Brown or simply as South African. The majority (in my opinion and experience) claim the lable Coloured.

    The Coloured culture is different from White, Indian and Black culture, though it incorporates aspects of all these cultures to varying degrees. The majority of Coloureds speak Afrikaans as a home language (in fact there are more Coloured native-Afrikaans speakers than Whites) though we are all bilingual, with a small proportion who are trilingual (usually that 3rd language is Xhosa).

    I was classified as Coloured and it is a term I still have emotional issues with. None of the other terms seems to “fit” emotionally for me (fit in terms of the South African context) but Coloured is the term I’m most comfortable with, so far.

    That’s it in a nutshell. I’ve left a lot out but I didn’t think you wanted a thesis on the topic. :-)

  76. octogalore wrote:

    Bdista, please don’t try to rephrase what I said as “I have friends or relatives of color.” Sure, it’s easy to claim I said that and then refute it as idiocy.

    In fact, what I said was, and I quote: “Doesn’t that depend on what the training is? Not all families and communities are equivalent. What about white people with siblings of color — are we racist too?”

    So, what I said is not that people with relatives of color CANNOT be racist, but that we are not NECESSARILY racist. Obviously, anyone can be racist — POC can be, so certainly people with POC relatives can be.

    My point was that blanket statements about white people being racist because of racist training ignores that training differs in households of all colors. Certainly, many white people do have ingrained racist beliefs. And other grow up among many cultures without such beliefs. Neither you nor the author of the OP have the ability to characterize who fits what category.

  77. Sobia wrote:

    @Ishtar:

    Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. I love that I learn SO MUCH from this blog. :)

  78. Daran wrote:

    I can’t think of a way to indicate, typographically, that [someone] whispered

    Subscript?

  79. Shelby wrote:

    Octagalore- I think you’re still kind of thinking of racism as something that happens on an individual level– something one person or family can control or get away from. But racism is something inherent in everyday life. Your family can be as anti-racist as they wanna be (which is great!), but our entire society is built on racism. You can’t escape it. We can help fight to dismantle it and give it less influence, but we all grow up in it and it’s a part of everyone. Just like every other oppression.

    So yeah, even if you have non-white siblings you’re still racist. And they’re racist too. Just like I’m still racist against black people even though I’m black. I love black people, but I’ve grown up in the same society as everybody else and it would be dumb of me to think that all those racist messages I got never had any effect on me.

  80. Sixfootwoman wrote:

    I once had a black worker who pointed out (laughing at us) to another white woman and me how we whispered “black”. She made us laugh at ourselves, and as she has sinced died, that memory of her always makes me smile.

    As someone else pointed out, it was definitely, at least with us, whispered because we didn’t WANT to be racist or offend anyone, even though now I know how dumb that was.

    I also think there are many white folks like me, who were raised by parents who taught us that prejudice and racism were wrong, but we never actually had to test ourselves because we grew up in all-white neighborhoods.

    Now for many years I have worked in New York City and almost all the black people I know are college-educated professionals with homes and children and pretty much similar lives except for cultural differences in matters of religion or food or music. Black people like this don’t make the six o’clock news, so anyone who limits their ideas about society to what they see on TV isn’t going to get a true picture of reality.

    This happens to black people, too. One thing that always puzzled me was watching black comedians on TV who kept cracking jokes about “Mommy acting white” when relating a story about their parents trying to talk to them instead of physically punishing them…THAT I believe comes from black people watching too much Brady Bunch and thinking that’s how white people lived. OK, so we did have the white station wagon with the wood-look panels, but in that station wagon my mother could be driving and swing her arm back and get five heads in one shot without swerving on the road. My friend used to get the double-belt buckle when she talked back…almost every white kid I knew growing up in the 60’s and 70’s was spanked, smacked, hit with the wooden spoon or belted by their parents. The Brady Bunch and the Partridge Family were NEVER real, folks!

    Anyway, I’m glad to have had a more diversified existance in my adulthood. I could never go back to living in an all-white world. I believe bias is a natural flaw in our species, but I know from experience that prejudice diminishes by itself when you get to like and love those people who don’t look like you.

  81. Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little wrote:

    This has been a brilliant discussion to read, and it’s made me think hard about the pressures, real or imagined, I feel when race is in the conversation.

    Demographics: I’m a white woman in my early 30s, raised in the New Orleans area by parents who did their best to raise a non-racist child. And sometimes slipped up, given the way they were raised. Which is to say, unlike some of my cousins, I was taught that the “n” word was unacceptable and that color of skin says nothing about the worth of a soul; but, like all the neighbor children, I was subtly taught to fear and avoid the sole black family on the block (although I don’t think my parents actually told me “stay away from them” like my friends’ parents did; I probably just picked up that they were uncomfortable with that family’s proximity, or that they did nothing to counteract my friends’ families’ discomfort). So there that is.

    My first training in “white people must whisper if they refer to race at all” was when I was probably seven. Second grade. I knew all of two black people in the world; one was a girl in my class, and the other was a girl in the incoming kindergarten class. (Makes mental note to check in with alumni web page and see what they’re up to these days…) Soon after I’d met the new kindergartner, I asked my classmate if she knew her, given that “she’s black too”. My classmate’s eyes lit up with that “you’re gonna get in trouble” look, and she vocalized that delightfully scandalized “ooooooh!” You know the one. What I should have learned from this was simply “don’t assume that people with skin color in common will have anything else in common,” and I did; but at that impressionable age I also learned “there’s no good way for a white girl to say ‘black’.”

    Today I know I still feel the same pressure not to say the word “black” (or any other race/ethnicity identifier) when describing a person. Reading this discussion has helped me verbalize the why of it to myself - mainly by reading individual posts and thinking “That’s not it… That’s not it… That’s almost it…”

    For me, I think the pressure follows this logic:

    1) Racists are people who think skin color is of such overweening important that they needn’t consider any other factor when judging the person.

    2) To be non-racist is to consider skin color of no importance when judging the person.

    So far, so good.

    3) Therefore, if I in fact do not see skin color of any importance, it will automatically be the last factor I consider at all times.

    Well, yes, except for…

    4) If I identify someone by their skin color, then I’m assigning their skin color importance, which is racist.

    And there’s the oops.

    In other words, the pressure comes from being afraid that, if I say, “Joe’s the black guy over there,” it sounds like that’s all I can say about him. It sounds as though I think that his skin color surpasses his family, his name, his favorite football team, his career, his studies, and his attitude towards life, the universe and everything. I am verbally reducing a complex person to a single data point, one that has historically been overvalued for nefarious reasons. And I don’t want anyone to think I think that way, because I don’t, and people who get the impression that I do aren’t necessarily going to give me a chance to correct them. They might just wander away and tell their friends that I’m racist…

    And so the insecure mind chatters on. *sigh*

    It doesn’t help that I know “aggressively non-PC” people who will go out of their way to describe a person in terms of their race regardless of need. I mean, if Joe is in a group of four black guys and two white guys, and Joe is wearing a three-foot-tall Cat-in-the-Hat stovepipe in neon purple and orange while everyone else is dressed mundanely, Agressively Anti-PC Jerk will say, “Joe’s the third BLACK guy from the left,” and they’ll put a special emphasis on the word, and then give you a challenging stare as though to say, “Yes, I said black! Black blackitty black black black and you got something to say about that?

    Gods help me from sounding like that guy.

    So I’m trying to retrain myself, because I know that “skin color as helpfully identifying feature” is obviously not “sounding like that guy,” and it won’t unless I let my insecurities talk me into sounding like I think I’ve done something naughty.

    And now, having written this, I’m nervous like hell to press the “Post” button. Because I’m a white woman talking about race, and “if you’re not racist you don’t do that.” Shit. And even worse, I’m a white woman complaining about how the culture of racism makes me feel like I have to watch what I say all the time–which is a topic covered loudly and badly all the time by privileged jerks jumping into discussions about privilege and hijacking them with protestations that “Hey, being part of the privileged class is hard!” And–

    (Push the button, Frank.)

    Anyway. Thanks for making a space where this discussion can be held, because, despite or even because of the pressure